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(Photo: Salt Lake Tribune / Trent Nelson)

Earlier this week, Mayim Bialik caused thousands of women across the country to burn their be-flowered hats in disgust when she penned an article for the New York Times suggesting that the reason why — unlike the victims of Harvey Weinstein — she had never been sexually harassed or assaulted in Hollywood was because she dressed “modestly.” It was, I think, especially enraging because — as Blossom — she did inspire a generation of quirky, feministy women. It was also enraging because she was wrong.

Furthering our disappointment this week are the jarring Weinstein-related comments from Democratic Congresswoman Rep. Eddie Bernice Johnson of Texas, who explained to an NBC news team that she thought it was just as much women’s responsibility to prevent sexual harassment and assault as it is men’s — and that they need to appear less “inviting.”

Via Mediaite:

“I grew up in a time when it was as much the woman’s responsibility as it was a man’s — how you were dressed, what your behavior was,” she said. “I’m from the old school that you can have behaviors that appear to be inviting. It can be interpreted as such.”

Additionally, Johnson said it was the “responsibility … of the female” to avoid such “inviting” looks that she believes can lead to sexual misconduct.

“We also need to start talking about the power that women have to control the situation. There’s law enforcement, you can refuse to cooperate with that kind of behavior,” she added.

I don’t doubt that women in Johnson’s time were told that it was their duty to prevent sexual assault and harassment. I know for a fact they were. I’ve seen Anatomy of a Murder multiple times.

That doesn’t make it right.

The only responsibility women have in this situation is to not put the blame on other women for sexual harassment and assault, and to make sure the boys they raise understand consent and understand that sexual harassment is not an OK thing for them to be doing.

I feel like I am supposed to be surprised that these arguments are coming from women, but I ain’t. The “dressing modestly will keep you from getting assaulted” argument is one I’ve actually heard more from women than from men. I think it’s because feeling vulnerable to sexual assault or harassment sucks, and those who are vulnerable feel like they need to cling to things that make them feel less vulnerable.

Studies have shown that women on juries are less likely to convict a rapist than men are. I think it’s because women want to believe that there are things they can do to avoid being raped, and thus that the victim somehow brought it upon herself. Believing that victims bring assault upon themselves is, unfortunately, the way a lot of women cope with being vulnerable to sexual assault. It’s the way they tell themselves, It can’t happen to me.

It’s superstition. It’s a talisman. It’s a St. Christopher medal. It’s bullshit — and harmful bullshit at that.

And it’s not just harmful to the harlots in miniskirts, either. It’s harmful to all victims of sexual assault and harassment, because it puts the idea into their heads that it is something they brought upon themselves, that it is somehow their fault. That maybe they shouldn’t even come forward because people will think it was their fault. That maybe they shouldn’t come forward because who would even believe they were sexy enough to be raped, violated or sexually harassed.

It is at this point in our journey today that I am going to encourage you to take a moment and Google “Amish sexual assault.” Sexual assault is endemic in communities like the Amish, in which women are not only encouraged, but required to dress and behave “modestly.” If dressing and acting “modestly” kept women safe from sexual assault and harassment, then surely the Amish would not have this problem. But they do.

Take a look at the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They all wore long, pastel dresses, with long sleeves — and yet somehow, that did not prevent them from being victims of Warren Jeffs. Were they too “inviting”?

Hell, take a look at children who are sexually assaulted. Look at the problem of rape in nursing homes. One does not need to be “inviting” in order to be the victim of sexual assault. One need only encounter someone who thinks it is OK for them to sexually assault you.

I could walk out of my apartment stark naked and go down the block unscathed, so long as there are no rapists around. And anyone that would attack me would still be just as much of a rapist as a one who sexually assaulted a woman wearing a nun’s habit. Women in nun’s habits are, by the way, not immune to sexual assault either.

The fault for sexual harassment and assault does not lie with the victims. There is no magical skirt length that keeps sexual assault and harassment at bay. I realize that’s a scarier reality to live with every day than one where something like that can protect you, but it is the one we live in.

The fault lies with the perpetrators, with casual wink-wink-nudge-nudge jokes about the casting couch, with parents who shrug off that “boys will be boys!” behavior, with any culture in which it is tolerated or accepted as “just the way things are,” and any culture that puts the onus of not being harassed or assaulted on the victims thereof.

[Mediaite | New York Times]

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  • Skwerl the Nazi Puncher
    • armed_bears

      She seems like she has a lot of facets to her personality.

    • TheGrandWazoo2

      ♪ ooooooo Boxy Lady ♪

    • FlemmishSpy

      High fiber diet?

  • Bill D. Burger

    ot..but this: Hell, it seems that Kelly is losing his fucking mind as well. Not only has he just excused the Fucking Moron’s depraved behavior in that phone call with the widow of La David Johnson, he added this:

    [Kelly also criticized Rep. Frederica Wilson, D-Fla., who first described hearing Trump’s phone call with Myeshia Johnson, Sgt. Johnson’s widow.
    “It stuns me that a member of Congress would’ve listened in on that conversation,” Kelly told reporters. “I thought at least that was sacred.”]

    THEY WERE IN A GODDAMNED CAR YOU FUCKING IDIOT!

    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/19/kelly-defends-trumps-call-to-widow-if-youve-never-been-in-combat-you-cant-even-imagine-how-to-make-that-call.html

    All these despicable and loathsome Fucking Moron Trump enabling motherfuckers are as much in the grips of dementia and denial as he is.
    I suppose she should have rolled the window down and put her head out the window?

    • elviouslyqueer

      As I pointed out last post, that whole “listening in on that conversation” is stupid on its face because IT WAS ON SPEAKER PHONE.

      • coozledad

        She was a mentor to the deceased. Basically part of the family. Kelly is a piece of shit.

    • Crazt Maist Waizy

      Why did anyone think Kelly was going to be honourable? What exactly did anyone see in him?

      • Beanz&Berryz

        They had stars in their eyes…

    • Beanz&Berryz

      Because how will we protect the sanctity of Trump’s lies if people listen? hmm?

    • Pilotshark

      it seems General Kelly is leaking him some big time Semper Fidelis!
      smh

      • Beanz&Berryz

        Out of all of his whatevers…

    • ariel_gee_398

      I dunno, I might be more concerned with the fucking deranged crapsack who LIED about that conversation after the details came out and happens to be the same deranged crapsack unilaterally authorized to launch nukes. But I’m probably just a crazy liberal alarmist.

    • It’s a cult, plain and simple. They’ve been brainwashed.

    • jesterpunk

      So General its fine for Trump to use your son to attempt to score cheap political points but its not ok to report exactly what Trump said?

      • Bill D. Burger

        Obviously, any honor and decency Kelly had was simply vaporized the moment he came into contact with the Fucking Moron.

        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/88f1c498629e1cd6364c2b057f8503df4eb3eca60c819ebd5cbe9b3230d66ab4.gif

        • Nockular cavity

          President Shit-Midas continues his reputation of turning everyone near him to shit.

      • Beanz&Berryz

        As Kelly reports what was said to him in that sacrosanct moment… Pissing on his own son’s graver, I suppose, by implication…

        And also too, how does having been in combat prepare you to express condolences? Kelly is a dick and an ignoramus… A fucking moran, just like his boss…

    • Shibusa

      Kelly: “It stuns me that a member of Congress would have listened in on that conversation. It stuns me.”

      It is worth pointing out, too, that KELLY WAS LISTENING IN ON THE SACRED CALL!

    • BigCSouthside

      If I were him, when trump asked me to do that I would have said yes sir

      Then I would have used the press room to burn the motherfucker down

    • Covfefe

      What happens to Kelly and his mission if he publicly disagrees with Donald? Who is going to have the least bit of luck controlling Donald if Kelly leaves his post? Patriotism, these days, comes in strange colors.

      • pstokk

        He’s demonstrably not controlling Trump. He’s not there for the patriotism. He believes in the essentials of Trumpism, clearly. He just wants the implementation to be smoother, and not to fail due to stupidity.

    • coozledad

      There are no decent Republicans. There haven’t been any for quite a while.

      • GoutMachine

        I’m trying to pinpoint who the last one was. Eisenhower?

    • eastcoastlib

      There’s nothing this asshole won’t do to protect and enable that orange monster.

    • YoBunnyBunny

      Considering who his boss is, I find it rich that he would think anything “sacred” now.

      Spare us all the pearl clutching, bitch.

    • Msgr_MΩment

      You sold your soul, asshole.
      I hope you enjoy your suite in Hell*.

      *Actually, I don’t.

  • Moebym of the Returners

    Josh Duggar.

    • The Militant Homosexual Agenda

      Well, if his little sisters didn’t dress like common whores….

  • armed_bears

    The last graph is it. That’s the whole deal.

  • BadKitty904

    Locking them up instead of placing them in public office will help keep sexual predators away.

    • MynameisBlarney

      Or, chastity belts?

      • BadKitty904

        Too risky.

  • Bub, the cynical zombie

    OT, but FUCK this fucking son of a bitch:

    https://twitter.com/joshledermanAP/status/921091896616869888

    • Wait–he said that while DEFENDING drumpf?

      • ariel_gee_398

        I assume because Democrats politicized Gold Star families first by letting them express their own thoughts about the exceedingly racist and anti-Muslim policies supported by the anthropomorphic pile of decaying pumpkin flesh Republicans have chosen as their child god.

      • Bub, the cynical zombie

        Yes. So much for an adult in the room to control Trump. They are enabling him, not controlling him.

    • Skwerl the Nazi Puncher

      What the actual fuck?

    • jesterpunk

      So last year when Trump attacked a gold star family it was cool but reporting the exact words Trump said is bad?

      https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/newshour/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/RTSK6A8-1024×662.jpg

    • laughingnome

      Kelly is another enabler.

    • BigCSouthside

      Wait, is he talking about the Khans? People who turned their tragedy into strength and action and stood up to a man who is the antithesis of the oath their son died upholding?

    • Cool_North

      Yes, never bought into the unflappable integrity of a lackey for Trump, don’t care what the perception of his past is. The present conduct is blatantly negating any such perception.

    • Oblios_Cap

      I’m starting to think Kelly is sort of a shitheel.

      • Pilotshark

        well he was the one that gave ICE the orders to reek havoc and arrest (looks like anyone who is NOT a bad Hombres) brown people.

        so other than he had wort four starts does`t mean he is a great general and person.

    • Dept. of Space Tacos

      wait, you mean when Trump insulted them? Or when they actually spoke out against him?

      Likely the latter.

    • WotsAllThisThen

      It wasn’t lost. Trump threw it away. Funny fact: Since then, he’s the only one who hasn’t found that sanctity since.

    • Spotts1701, Nothingburger Chef

      So the going rate for 4 stars on the shoulder is 30 pieces of silver in the pocket?

    • eastcoastlib

      Cockholstersayswhatnow?

  • And now there are two people I can think of as Turd Blossom.

  • FlemmishSpy

    OT: Richard Spencer’s talk at UF is not going well (for him). Lots of vocal protesters in the auditorium. He gave up on prepared remarks and went straight to Q&A. He’s like a substitute teacher who’s lost control of the class.

  • Michael Smith

    Yeah, I was going to say not only is the “dress modestly unless you want to be assaulted” philosophy wrong morally, its just not correct. Dudes don’t care. People get sexually assaulted in floor length dresses too. It only has the effect of shifting the blame to the woman for something she did not cause, and, yes its a defense-mechanism for those who want to believe they and theirs won’t get assaulted because they live the right way.

    Its just like saying “my child won’t develop a drug addiction, because I actually discipline him.” Its dogshit, it doesn’t help you and only hurts other people.

    I saw McKayla Maroney of the US Olympic team was molested for years by her team doctor. What the fuck. What the.. I mean.

    Basically, I’m starting to think that if you’re a woman you are almost guaranteed to be sexually assaulted in some way. Its really despicable. Its really not fair.

  • Alex Grey

    Ohh is the answer no? I bet the answer is no.

  • Bill D. Burger

    “Dress modestly and carry a big stick__around Josh Duggar.”

  • VirginiaMorningBlend

    So there was no sexual assault back in pre-1900 times when all dresses were long? Darned sexy toes!

    • A Bisexual Unicorn

      Then does that mean all rapists have feet fetishes?

    • Dept. of Space Tacos

      I’m sure the various raping and pillaging armies would have been interested in that factoid.

    • Mehmeisterjr

      I cannot easily call this up from internet research but several decades ago, I was reading one of the volumes of the complete, scholarly edition of Mark (Samuel L. Clemens) Twain.

      Buried in a footnote was an extensive citation of a letter from Clemens’ older brother Orion Clemens to his wife.

      Twain tended to treat his older brother as kind of a dimwitted, exasperating sap but Orion was, after all, the first and only Secretary of the Nevada Territory, kept it within the Union and gave Sam a job when he needed it. What little of his writing I have read suggests he was not as dumb as all that, though no Mark Twain.

      In his letter, Orion gave his wife detailed and canny instructions on how to avoid being raped while traveling by stage coach to Nevada, long dress and all. He obviously knew whereof he wrote.

  • Jonny On Maui

    “You made me do this” is the battlecry of the coward.

    • Oblios_Cap

      Sort of like blaming your ugly, nasty behavior on God because he told you to do it in the bible.

  • ariel_gee_398

    Maybe these ladies need to take in some art before they opine on the rape-deterring qualities of baggy sweats and no makeup: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/powerful-art-exhibit-powerfully-answers-the-question-what-were-you-wearing_us_59baddd2e4b02da0e1405d2a

  • Ninja0980

    This article hits the nail on the head.
    People often blame victims of violent crimes, especially sexual assault because they don’t want to think it can happen to them.
    If you can blame it on what the victim was wearing, the fact she(sometimes he) went back to the person’s place/was alone, didn’t say no etc., then you can convince yourself it won’t happen to you.
    Sad fact of life, women from all walks of life from the slums to Park Avenue have been raped and it doesn’t matter what they were wearing.
    Because it’s not about sex but power and punishing women.

    • Mehmeisterjr

      I would modify that slightly. It is about sex but only about exploiting and forcing unwanted sex for power and punishing women.

      • eastcoastlib

        That’s exactly right. Rape by some random stranger is rare. Most rape victims know their rapist. Rapists are mad at their victims and want to punish them, damage them. That’s why rape is such a vicious crime. It should be an automatic life in prison sentence

        • Mehmeisterjr

          Worst statute of limitations limits ever.

    • Skwerl the Nazi Puncher

      Not only that, the victims of crime take on guilt and shame thinking about the things that they might have done differently, forgetting that it was never their fault. So they have their own voices to add to the chorus of shame.

  • Nockular cavity

    I’m sure there’s no rape in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia, right?

    • A Bisexual Unicorn

      Yep and not because there is a culture that does not punish it. Or because women are afraid of the backlash.

    • Suttree

      And they definitely don’t punish the ACTUAL FUCKING VICTIM of the crime.

  • Skwerl the Nazi Puncher

    OT: Kelly said he was “stunned” Wednesday when he heard what Rep. Frederica Wilson said about Trump’s phone conversation with the widow of a fallen soldier.

    Guess he wasn’t listening in.

    • eastcoastlib

      Fuck him. Stunned? Where’s he been hiding? Quick show of hands, who else was “stunned” the orange twatwaffle treated the only non-white casualty in Niger like shit? Kelly is a fucking fraud. If he had an ounce of self respect left he would resign but of course he won’t

      • GoutMachine

        Paging Capt. Renault…

  • Crystalclear12

    Heard the whole ” how to dress like a good girl” speech from my mother.
    Sigh

    • A Bisexual Unicorn

      Dress like a good girl by wearing a giant mech.

      Actually I think even if someone was always piloting a giant robot even then they might get raped.

  • Robbertjan Brandenburg

    The fact that I made it a life long objective to have sex with a muslim woman wearing a hijaab kinda proves the point, amirite?

    • Oblios_Cap

      That ankle drove you crazy!

      • Robbertjan Brandenburg

        oh don’t get me started.

      • Msgr_MΩment

        Used to be
        The sight of stocking
        Was looked at as something shocking

    • Bill D. Burger

      I always thought dating ladies who wear hijabs with could have advantages. If you break up you can use the same photo over and over on your desk.

      http://data.whicdn.com/images/215532346/large.jpg

    • GoutMachine

      Hey, I read a New Yorker article about all the lingerie shops in Saudi Arabia. They’re wearing some hawt shit under there!

      • Robbertjan Brandenburg

        Hence my objective.

  • whitroth

    Of course they were told it. They were yelled at if they “dressed like a slut”, or “were asking for it if they dressed like that!!!”

    Of course, it’s always the woman’s fault, don’tcha know? I mean, men would be Moral, and have their thoughts of God ™, and their noses in the air, but Women, guilty of Eve’s Sin, drag them down to rut like animals….

    (Hint: we are fucking animals….*)

    * What, I’m *not* going to intend a pun? Silly you!

  • Oblios_Cap

    While I agree with the gist of this article, I must confess myself distraught over one point that you made.

    I wear a St. Christopher medal (and I’m not even Catholic!) and have most of my adult life. Yes, it’s bullshit, but I must take umbrage at your description of it as harmful bullshit.

    • calliecallie

      He’s not even a real saint any more!

      • Oblios_Cap

        That’s a bonus!

    • Tishalicious

      I have to agree ^_^ I’m a huge fan of magic feathers, myself. And that’s a very different concept than a…..an evil-eye ward.

      Just a little quibble in a Really excellent article though.

  • Ms.MLG on Maui

    Rape doesn’t triple in summer months, when we wear less clothing. Nuns get raped. Men get raped. Men get raped in prison, and everyone is wearing the same uniform there. Women in burkas get raped. Elderly people in nursing homes get raped. It’s almost like the problem isn’t clothing, but rapists, who are violent criminals.

    • Villago Delenda Est

      What? Blame the perpetrator, not the victim? What is this anti-Trumpist nonsense?

    • laughingnome

      It’s just another way to be violent and dominate.

    • Michael Smith

      And the people who don’t want to admit that.

  • eastcoastlib

    I just read the headline. Is this another Mooch poll?

  • Rebel Scum with permit

    I admit to being an occasional consumer of true crime books. It seems like criminals look for vulnerable seeming women they can get alone, not women who are provocatively dressed.
    And sometimes your job or life demands that you travel alone. The alternative is Saudi Arabia, where you never leave the house without an escort.

    • Covfefe

      As a general rule, criminals prefer concealment.

  • arglebargle

    Amish and Mennonites would just rather not talk about such things. It makes for a very uncomfortable conversation. Sex is taboo. And besides, the offender has asked for forgiveness, so who are we to judge. Toxic bullshit cult thinking.

  • Villago Delenda Est

    Burkas for all women! Accept the chador, or be raped!

    • Catstro

      Accept the chador and get raped anyway!

  • GoutMachine

    I don’t want to venture into mansplain territory here, but as a dude I have to say, No, Rep. Johnson, no, no no. It’s on US to stop this shit.

  • Anna Elizabeth

    OT – Dating Tips, Y’all – I was walking home from the store, in flats mind you, when a early-30-something guy beeps his horn gently to get my attention, and he tells me I’m “Gorgeous”. He’s British, Y’all.

    He asks for my contact info, so we meet in the next parking lot ahead. He *kissed* my hand when I introduced myself!

    We’ll see if he follows up. Heis slim, glasses, a ponytail, and *smooooth*.

    That is how that is done, Bitches! :) It’s Spring Warm today, I’m in shorts, and guys have been Catcalling pricks all day, that should tell you how smooth this guy was.

    • Dept. of Space Tacos

      nice!

      I saw a very cute gal (with a hideous haircut) at my event. Smiled at her, but didn’t talk to her.

      Hey, the smiling thing was a HUGE achievement for me.

      • Anna Elizabeth

        Baby Steps, Sweetheart. I’m proud of you. :) Keep smiling at them, and get those Half-Windsor knots down cold. ~hugs~

        No Apache helos today, two Blackhawks when I went to the grocery store this morning.

        • Dept. of Space Tacos

          thanks! I was working the room and looking pretty good I thought (except for the bumps on my neck from shaving.)

          i tried the windsor once and it somehow ended up wiht BOTH the big and little ends being too short.

          Need to take another crack at it.

          • Oblios_Cap

            I haven’t worn a tie for a while, and I was getting ready for a job interview a few weeks ago and realized that I had forgotten how to tie it. I had to go online and look it up.

          • Dept. of Space Tacos

            i was taught a shit knot by my dad, but never really cared. I’ve got two bookmarked videos on the full windsor and the half windsor.

      • Covfefe

        Ask her where she got her shoes. That gets them talking.

        • Dept. of Space Tacos

          they were actually nice shoes and a gorgeous dress.

          I was gonna compliment her haircut but…you know what, this conversation is a little weird given the post.

          It’s unimportant (i mean asking women out, not your tip), but I will put the tip in my toolbox (my tiny unused dating toolbox).

        • Shanzgood

          I would think “he’s gay” or “he wants a pair like this for his SO”

          • Michael Smith

            hahaha

          • Natalie Au Natural Hedonist

            That’s how I start a conversation with strangers.

    • FukuiSanYesOta

      How do you beep a horn gently?

      Now I’ve written that, it looks like a double-entendre.

      Congrats, Anna!

      • Anna Elizabeth

        *beep-neep* once, rather than mashing on it. Some Horse’s Ass wanted my attention this morning, so he slammed his horn while I was in the crosswalk, and since I didn’t reward him, he *blasstttted* it as he drove past me. I gave him a Bowman’s Salute, the fucking prick.

        And thank you. :) Made my day, fer shure.

        • Michael Smith

          Gotta do the beep beep. Holding the horn down is obnoxious. I only do it if someone’s about to run into me, or if its the last day of high school and I’m a senior leaving the parking lot.

          • puredog

            While I generally concur, if someone does a dangerous assholish thing right in front of me that requires heroic measures to avoid a collision, I will lean on the fucking horn and wish it were a hundred times louder.

          • Anna Elizabeth

            I cannot argue with this, that is one of the uses of the horn.

  • Msgr_MΩment

    Hulk want smash again.

  • bbayliss

    What century is it, again?

    • Villago Delenda Est

      These assholes want to take us back before the Renaissance. They’re convinced that’s where western civilization took a wrong turn, away from the deity of goat-herders.

      • ariel_gee_398

        President Bonespurs would have been left behind for the bears.

        • OutOfOrbit

          or drownded when born

      • bbayliss

        Don’t forget the Oak Worshipers.

  • Oblios_Cap
    • Suttree

      “I am taking responsibility for winning because I have absolutely nothing to do with any of the decision making.”

      What a moran!

    • Bitter Scribe

      And if ISIS manages another horrible attack, he’ll blame himself, right?

    • aureolaborealis

      When trolls/propagandists insist Trump should get credit for the economy and other positive things, I feign innocence and ask, “That’s great. What policy changes that he has implemented do you think led to this?” And the answer is always crickets or something like, “Well, people are more confident in America now. MAGA!!!!!!!11!!”

  • GoutMachine

    This is all wrong. Doesn’t matter what the woman was wearing. The real question we should be asking is, Was the guy white and did he have a bright future?

    • Michael Smith

      That is true, we are forgetting about that vital factor.

    • Mehmeisterjr

      Especially if he had a bright future as a sportsball figure, business golden boy, college standout or creepy old executive.

  • President in Exile Firefly

    The Handmaid’s Tale For Dummies. And a Guide for the Rest of Us!

  • joe baduba

    I’ve seen some some pretty hot chastity belts on the porns.

    Long live masturbation!

  • Anna Rompage

    You should ask Josh Duggar’s younger sisters what kind of provocative outfit they were wearing, that caused their bother to violate them…

    • A Bisexual Unicorn

      I think it was that they existed near him; I think that was enough for him.

    • Thiazin Red

      The fact that they think boys shouldn’t change diapers because it would be too tempting proves that there is literally nothing a girl or woman could do that was modest enough.

  • JohnBull

    Christ almighty–sexual assault and rape are goddamn violent CRIMES. What kind of sick bastard justifies them? Do we justify carjackings or mass murder or shooting unarmed black… shit, forget it.

  • Royal Ugly Globalist Dude

    Ever since Trump supporters said they wanted to make America great again, I’ve wondered when, exactly, it stopped being great.

    Well, I’ve finally figured it out! It was 1959, when “Anatomy of a Murder” came out and they were forced to hear the word “panties.”

    • GoutMachine

      Oh, I was gonna say Jan. 1, 1863.

    • Everrett Fanuelli

      I thought it was seeing a toilet in Psycho?

    • Thiazin Red

      Peeping Tom libelz? I thought Peeping Tom was when movies became far too scandalous.

    • OutOfOrbit

      IMHO USA has been great only once: the day after Pearl Harbor was bombed we rose to our finest…but it only lasted for a few days

    • P’jama Pahnts

      It stopped being great when the first homosexual act occurred on U.S. American soil, during the Obama reign.

    • whitroth

      No, it was the sixties, with uppity young’uns, an’ uppity blacks, an’ uppity wimmen…. It was terr’ble, terr’ble. Gotta get them (wealthy) white males back on top agin’, and the rest of us need to go back to tugging our forelocks, and whatever you want, boss….

  • Everrett Fanuelli

    OT: Did you hear Trump finally got a dog? His name is John, but sometimes he’s referred to as Kelly.

    • Resistance Fighter Callyson

      “Oh, God, we’ve got to liberate that poor thing!”

      – my two dogs

    • Bill D. Burger

      Barks on command. Good lap dog.

      • IdiokraticCulturalMarxist

        I hear he can heel, fetch, rollover, and beg as well.

  • Thiazin Red

    The Bialik article also had a weird jealousy aspect to it. Those hoors with the pouty lips and hoorish outfits got jobs by being hoors. I’m better than them, but they got work and deserved to get harassed.

    Frankly she sounded like the misogynist self insert in a bad YA novel, who Isn’t Like Other Girls.

    • Shanzgood

      Yeah, there was a whiff of schadenfreude in there, right?

    • Roadstergal

      Bialik is a cray cray anti-vaxxer. I generally do not listen to her.

  • I blame the fact that human animals are horndogs by nature, and the societal stigma we place on sexuality.

    More research needs to be done, but there seems to be a correlation between less rapes and the legalization of prostitution.
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/legal-prostitution-zones-reduce-incidents-of-rape-and_us_58c83be1e4b01d0d473bce8a

    • Oblios_Cap

      Probably less sexual repression and less religion would help, too.

    • pstokk

      This would seem on the face of it to contradict the widely held view that rape is about power, not sex. Sure you want to go there? Also, is it plausible, as the article suggests or claims outright, that rapists, if they are in fact going to whores instead of raping random women, are not acting out their violence on whores? I don’t find that plausible.

    • Jennifer Nicole

      I blame it on the fact that society treats women as public property and give men the idea that they’re entitled to what they want over others’ rights.

  • Resistance Fighter Callyson

    There’s law enforcement, you can refuse to cooperate with that kind of behavior

    DAFUQ does that even mean?

    Never mind, I’m pretty sure I don’t want to know FFS…

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8291097b95211362bc3dcf7b1bc1932dfc4a8d5b8e4b7089613748491e9fe278.jpg

  • TheGrandWazoo2

    Predators look for opportunity, not for Oscar de la Renta.

    • Bill D. Burger

      Trump got his wives looking for Oscar de la Low Renta.

      • Bitter Scribe

        Or Oscarina de la Low Rentavitch.

      • yyyaz

        He is a longtime admirer of Rent Snatchlow.

  • Daniel Hooper

    I’m gonna guess this article is going to generate a lot of, “Dear Shit for Brainz” content(this and the one yesterday about arming women with guns to prevent sexual assault). I’m gonna predict that at least a few people are going to say Robyn’s statements about how women aren’t responsible for being victims of sexual assault as, “women don’t need to do anything to protect themselves at all”. She means that they shouldn’t be blamed if someone targets them, not that they shouldn’t take basic safety precautions. You’re an idiot if you think she meant otherwise.

    • Also too a idiot.

    • Villago Delenda Est

      Guns are always good for bringing out ammosexual twunts.

  • Johnson is old enough to remember when black women had no legal protections against sexual assault. Until the Joanne Little case in 1975 raping black women was just a bit of Saturday night hijinks. Shame on her. Read about this horrific case below.
    http://www.msmagazine.com/spring2002/davis.asp

  • Resistance Fighter Callyson
  • Spotts1701, Nothingburger Chef

    How many times do we have to go over this? Sexual assault isn’t about gratification. It is 100% about power, dominance and control. It is about demeaning, degrading and hurting someone solely because you can.
    That’s it, full stop. So enough of this blatherskite about “modesty” and “women’s responsibility”. The only responsibility a woman has is the same base precautions any person should take to avoid being a victim of a crime. Anything else is demanding they behave differently because they are women, and that is not the problem here.

  • (((fka_donnie_d))), SOB

    First off; I am not claiming that the following is in any way a “technique for avoiding sex assault”

    The real reason Weinstein left you alone, honey, is that you’re obviously an educated woman who would have found some way to hold him accountable. There were many easier targets.

    • OutOfOrbit

      “[EASIER] targets”?!!! STOP BLAMING THE VICTIMS MY NAME IS MUD AND I AM A PIG

      EDIT: oh wait i fucked up and read you wrong, i apologize honestly

      • (((fka_donnie_d))), SOB

        I like to has the nuance :)

    • Bitter Scribe

      The real reason Weinstein left her alone is that they never crossed paths.

      • (((fka_donnie_d))), SOB

        She crossed paths with someone, at some point, who thought about it.

        • Bitter Scribe

          Maybe, but that person restrained himself. As in, controlled himself and took responsibility for his actions.

    • Crank Tango

      That sounds great and all, but he seemed to have a penchant for hot young starlets.
      And it sounds like you’re calling his victims stupid.

      • (((fka_donnie_d))), SOB

        Stupid, no. Lacking confidence and experience, yes. Predators prey on the weak.

  • Resistance Fighter Callyson

    BTW and unsurprisingly, this person is an asshole for other reasons: for one thing, she is a denier of the Armenian holocaust. I’d like to see her dare to peddle that crap here in LA’s Little Armenia FFS.

  • janecita

    It might be a generational thing, my mom pretty much said the same thing to me, I promptly went off.

    Ps. I’m not saying that all older women think the same way, I’m sure that a lot of them don’t.

    • Thiazin Red

      I am pretty sure I’m officially an old now, and I don’t get some of the thing that youngs wear. Sometimes what the youngs wear seems inappropriate for being outside in, but I still think they should be able to wear it and don’t think it would excuse anyone who harassed them.

      • Shanzgood

        I’ve been harassed for dressing very UNsexily. I kid you not. A guy was totally offended that I was wearing baggy camo pants and a sloppy sweater and no makeup.

        • Thiazin Red

          I’ve been harassed while wearing baggy sloppy stuff, but not for wearing it. It must be like those dipshits who get upset by women not smiling.

        • whitroth

          I see. You exist solely to provide him some level of pleasure, like any other sex-droid.

          If I could find you my cluex4, I’d loan it to you.

          • Shanzgood

            It was weird how ANGRY he seemed. Just an average white guy about my age in a corner shop in the U.K. SO MAD that I hadn’t made more effort to look pretty to go down the street for a pack of smokes.

          • Dept. of Space Tacos

            is it a good guess that he was some scrubby/unkempt/poorly dressed dude? Cause that’s me at saturday morning class each week.

          • Shanzgood

            Not that I recently recall.

      • Dept. of Space Tacos

        moved from above:

        a woman at our professional event today came in a belly shirt. As you point out, she totally has that right, but yeah, I thought it wouldn’t reflect well on her to do so – professionally speaking.

        • Thiazin Red

          Yes there is still a difference between professional clothing and stuff you wear around.

      • Anna Elizabeth

        I get catcalled when I wear Booty shorts, and I get catcalled when I’m covered wrist-to-ankle, plus snowboots, scarf, and hat.

        Fuck it, I dress how I please, I stay alert to my surroundings, and I’m prepared to fight or run as the situation calls for it.

        • Daniel

          Do you have a burqa?

          • Anna Elizabeth

            Nope. :) And in this area, a woman wearing a Burqa would be harassed for being Muslim.

        • Thiazin Red

          My winter coat seems to be the worst for me.

    • Jennifer Nicole

      It’s not just a generational thing, though. It’s a desire to have control over the situation, to feel like you’re being proactive in protecting your child/yourself. Because if you can believe bad things only happen to those who do x or y, then by not doing those things, you can feel safe knowing it won’t happen to you.

      • Dept. of Space Tacos

        a woman at our professional event today came in a belly shirt. As you point out, she totally has that right, but yeah, I thought it wouldn’t reflect well on her to do so – professionally speaking.

      • Rocket Pony Ron

        … until it does.

    • LeftyProud

      My mother in in law is a HUGE slut-shamer. When Herman Cain was accuse of harassment, my MIL mentioned the press conference and said “did you see what she was wearing?” meaning the accuse the the fact she accused cain of assault, how she looks and dresses is part of the equation. I ripped her a new one over that. If she does that in my presense again, she is no longer allowed in my house.

  • Joe Beese
    • Skwerl the Nazi Puncher

      Hoda the Game of Thrones character?

      • “hold the duh!”

      • laughingnome

        The wise little old guy from Star Wars?

        • Anna Elizabeth

          “Suck, your show does, young Megan.”

          • Daniel

            Black Santa is, young…ish Megan.

    • laughingnome

      This is how her career ends
      Not with a bang
      with an awkward dance party

      • The Rain in Spain’s Therapist

        And then it’s off to Infowars.

      • shastakoala

        In theory.

    • DrBigHead

      Joe Beese: I am confident that you are not one of the folk that I am going to rant about, but your post about ratings pushes my buttons (I am an old, so I don’t think I can use “triggered”). I am sick to fucking death of people that point to television ratings as an indicator of truth (YOU HEAR THAT TRUMP!!). It seems to me that there is actually an inverse relationship — the more bullshit being thrown the higher the ratings. This is one of the many reasons I am scared to death for our society.

      • Joe Beese

        Uh… I just thought she looked silly dancing….

        • DrBigHead

          That she does….

  • Resistance Fighter Callyson

    One last one from me before I have to nope it out of here for the sake of my sanity:

    you can have behaviors that appear to be inviting

    Assholes and Deleted Commenters take note: there is a difference between saying “I want sexual attention” and “I want to be sexually assaulted.” Those two things are not even remotely similar FFS.

    • Villago Delenda Est

      The difference is too subtle for their faulty brains to process.

      • whitroth

        Yup. I mean, I see a lot of attractive, mostly younger women, where I work (lots of students and post-bacs), and a fair number dress sexy. But appreciation of the view is just that….

        I don’t stare, or bother them. But then, I’m not a testosterone-poisoned loser, who thinks they deserve whatever pops into their head.

    • Jennifer Nicole

      There is also a difference between “I want sexual attention from someone I’m attracted to” and “I want sexual attention from you.” Since my desire for that attention is probably not directed at the creepy guy who decided my body was “for public use.”

    • clubseal

      And the second, outside of what I imagine is a very small niche group, isn’t even a statement one could logically posit.

      • Rocket Pony Ron

        Said niche group does exist, but oddly enough – or maybe not oddly at all – it’s STILL consensual.

    • Poorly Behaved Pérsistanista

      What if I act in a “sexy” way and do not want sexual attention at all but am just being my naturally sexy self, especially if I am a young woman who unless I hide it, being “sexy” is just part of my nature?

      I am NOT busting your balls, it’s just the thoughts passing through my head.

  • Anna Elizabeth

    Did Everypony know the Cold War Soviet Army had a huge issue with male-on-male sexual violence?

    A lot of Soviet soldiers were sent to isolated bases far from their homes, and then to face a power-and-dominance struggle not unlike prison.

    Rape and other forms of sexual assault are about power, about control, not about sexual desire or “modestly” or any of that yang.

    • Skwerl the Nazi Puncher

      I feel like we can say this over and over, but it never gets through. Anyone want to speculate why?

      • Spotts1701, Nothingburger Chef

        We aren’t using sufficient-sized hammers?

        • laughingnome

          And sickles?

    • Beanz&Berryz

      Some called it hazing…

    • OutOfOrbit

      i been trying hard for a long time but i learned yesterday that i am still a pig somewhere inside–it slipped out and i am trying hard to kill it: MY NAME IS MUD AND I AM A PIG
      –me, in self-help

      • Anna Elizabeth

        ~hugs~ Effort counts, Doll.

    • Daniel

      Also too the GULAG.

      • Anna Elizabeth

        Yes.

  • Vincent Ricola

    I don’t know what to say to or about these women, so instead I’m going to call my beloved elderly mother and thank her for raising me to understand that if someone does something evil to me, it’s their fault, not mine.

  • jesterpunk

    OT but Donny Dumbass met with Puerto Rico’s governor now he is saying it is worse then Katrina.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/19/politics/puerto-rico-governor/index.html

    • Suttree

      Fucking flip-flopper! He always has at least 3 positions on everything. Yes, no, and fake.

    • aureolaborealis

      This is to make his response look less shitty: “See! We’ve got a MUCH YOOOGER challenge than Bush had. I give us a 10 out of 10, considering how tough it is for us!”

    • Pisto75666

      Does that mean he’ll be throwing extra absorbent paper towels next time then?

      • jesterpunk

        He will throw name brand paper towels next time not paper towel brand paper towels.

        • Pisto75666

          That’s a Bounty of good news.

  • Carpe Vagenda

    I love Anatomy of a Murder. But it’s never not weird that the creepy rapist’s daughter was Bing Crosby’s child bride.

    I think Mayim Bialik doesn’t really talk to people who disagree with her a lot. Respectfully, anyway.

    She probably should.

  • Jennifer Nicole

    As Mayim Bialik’s doppelgänger, I promise that I am a lot more sane than she is. I grew up as a kid being called Blossom by strangers and now I get told I look/act like “Sheldon’s girlfriend/Amy Farrah Fowler.” But unlike her, I’m not a ‘white feminist’, crunchier-than-thou, and other issues I have with her. Like her, I love science, but I don’t push it aside for a personal agenda, either.

    • Roadstergal

      *applause*

  • Michael Smith

    And can I just say again in light of this conversation that I’m still pretty upset that when the entire American public found out that Trump brags to strangers that he can grab women by the pussy and because he’s rich they can’t do anything about it, oh and that he likes to go backstage at Miss Teen and watch the minor girls change, the Republican Party decided that was okay, and then enough members of the public decided it was fine, and now he’s President.

  • Résistance Land Shark Ω

    The Shark pups are taught nothing without permission. That is all.

  • yyyaz

    By this “logic,” nudist camps would be the rapiest places on earth. Pro hint: they are not.

    • whitroth

      No, duh. But, I mean, her ankle was SO SEXXXY, judge, I couldn’t help myself…..

    • Natalie Au Natural Hedonist

      As a nudist for many years now, I can tell you I feel safer in a nude resort than most anywhere. They do screen all the entrants and if you are inappropriate, out you go. The only time there have been problems, that I know of, is when some first time young guy doesn’t understand the rules.

  • MynameisBlarney
    • Thiazin Red

      Has anyone who says shit like this even read the Bible?

      • Daniel

        Faith not works!

        • Thiazin Red

          Also god does not seem down with personal liberty.

      • MynameisBlarney

        Goin out on a limb here, but…I’mma go with no.

    • Suttree

      He didn’t always feel that way now did he. This god seems like a real fucking choosy asshole.

      • Villago Delenda Est

        He’s sucking up to the Mammon-worshiping scum that played a huge role in putting him in office.

    • Poorly Behaved Pérsistanista

      I thought it more along the lines of Government should be free from God.

    • clubseal

      And you can’t bring it to a White Elephant work party.

    • Rocket Pony Ron

      … wait, what?

    • btwbfdimho

      Freedom is a gift?
      I have so much freedom I gonna re-gift it.

      • Dept. of Space Tacos

        and not a right…apparently.

        Speaking of which, had one of those wonderfully idealistic defense attorneys speak. Weirdly charming older fuddy duddy.

        He was talking about one topic but kept straying into these digressions – but he had quite a passionate argument that without hte constitution there is no liberty.

        anyway, kinda inspiring.

    • And if there doesn’t happen to be a god?

      • GHERKINS OF RESTIVENESS!

        If…?

      • MynameisBlarney

        Then it’s up to us mere mortals.

    • aureolaborealis

      God was around a long time before the Constitution, so I guess the Constitution is unnecessary?

  • clubseal

    It’s 2017, and it’s a fucking travesty that this still has to be said.

  • Shanzgood
    • Rocket Pony Ron

      … wow, I never noticed that before. He is 150% right.

      • puredog

        It is kind of stunningly apt.

      • CindyinEncinitas

        I have been shouting this from the rooftops for years. I am so glad the point is getting traction. Pisses me off so much.

    • Anna Elizabeth

      This is On Target. It strikes me that even in style-guides for hobby magazines, we are instructed to *not* use a passive voice when writing.

      But in this important area, it is de riguer to write with the passive voice.

      • Shanzgood

        We’re also hampered by the fact that there are a lot more statistics available regarding people who have been assaulted than people who have committed the assaults, never mind even been charged.

        • Anna Elizabeth

          That’s a good point, I never even thought of that before. I’m not good in maths, I’d have zero idea how to improve the data collection and analysis, but surely they need to be improved.

          • 🛶🗣️ Mr Canoehead 🛶🗣️

            Now I’m just throwing this out here, but what if women felt supported about reporting their attackers? Then maybe more of them would report the criminals and we’d have a better idea of how many there are? (Oh, and put more of them in jail, also too.)

          • Anna Elizabeth

            Good thought. Well said.

    • toughsister

      Totally right!

  • aureolaborealis

    Mayim Bialik may be smart, but she has had some bizarre, not always very well thought out positions on stuff like parenting and vaccines and stuff.

    • Vincent Ricola

      Science and religious orthodoxy make strange bedfellows.

    • Anti-vaxxers are such a fucking danger to society at large, too. Let’s just put them all on an island far downwind from us and see how that works out. Maybe Jim Carrey can be their governor.

      • Thiazin Red

        Anyone who uses their public role to espouse anti-vaccination idiocy has blood on their hands.

      • shastakoala

        What’s scary is Mayin Blalik is a scientist.

        • I’m sure she has her degree but you really can’t be a good scientist AND an anti-vaxxer at the same time. Unless maybe you’re a “good” Christian Scientist.

  • Dudleydidwrong

    High school in the early 50s (yeah, I’m old.) Modest dress was the way of life and the sight of an ankle was usually the best you could get. Girls were still raped.

  • Swampay

    I’ve been to Burning Man several times. Whooo boy, talk about women wearing not-much and looking hot (in all senses of the word). And yes, every year there are a few sexual assaults reported. Somehow there are fewer sexual assaults than in any other gathering of that size for a week.

  • Poorly Behaved Pérsistanista

    Having no idea who Mayim Bialik is, I am saved from disappointment on this one, small thing. I’ll take it.

    I can go back to being (OT) seriously pissed at John Kelly for jumping into the Trump-was-an-asshole on the phone call to the widow of the soldier who died in Niger as overheard and reported by Congresswoman whats-er-name.

    “It stuns me that a member of Congress would have listened in on that conversation. Absolutely stuns me,” Kelly said. “And I thought at least that was sacred.”

    The widow was in the car with her family and her congresswoman on the way to meet the remains of her husband when the call came in. She shouldn’t have the right to put that call on speakerphone if she chooses, John? The congresswoman doesn’t have the right to tell how upsetting that call was to the widow? Very disappointed in you John. Very.

    • puredog

      And, as has been noted upthread, John himself was listening in on the sacred call.

      • Poorly Behaved Pérsistanista

        Missed that part. Thank you.

        • Mehmeisterjr

          If he is now “saving” us from Trump, it is time for him to stop jumping into the middle of the shit sandwich.

          This kind of crap is what will discredit him forever.

          • Swampgas_Man

            Already has.

    • wide_stance_hubby

      The widow is grieving wrong! How dare she dishonor America like that.

    • RobGinChicago

      Commander-in-Chief’s Enabler/Nanny-in-Chief must have been just back from a visit to Rick’s Café in Casablanca. Faux shock, but no denials of what was said. Lordy, Kelly is just as pathetic as the rest of the sycophants.

  • clubseal

    I don’t know what my fellow Wonkers’ feelings are on the movie, as I’m sure it has its detractors, but this is why I wouldn’t mind seeing films like “Brave Miss World” become required viewing for young men.
    I’m a man who has never experienced sexual assault myself, but in a lot of ways, I think the issue is one of people not understanding how rape and sexual assault affect a person. For the large swathe of people with at least half a brain and the ability to empathize and still don’t get it, I think that they could be swayed by understanding how traumatizing and long lasting the effects can be. The answer is probably quite a bit more difficult for someone who thinks that it’s OK to sexually assault someone else, and I’m not sure what the answer is there.

    • Shanzgood

      I sometimes wonder whether some people would be less traumatized or not for so long if we hadn’t been told for millennia that being assaulted makes us permanently soiled goods.

      • clubseal

        In my limited experience with women I’ve been close to who have revealed to me sexual assaults they’ve endured, it has become my belief that it has more to do with someone taking away power over the one thing that is uniquely yours: Your own body. I’m sure there’s some aspect with the “soiled goods” part, but I don’t think that’s what causes the PTSD or the other terrible effects.

        • Shanzgood

          Oh, definitely that. I was just musing about some of the other things involved.

  • TundraGrifter

    The flip side of this “argument” – that rapists are encouraged to assault modestly-dressed women because they want to see what’s underneath – makes just as much sense. That would be no sense at all.

    • clubseal

      I know I’ve put it here before, but I think my eyes rolled to the back of my brain the first time I saw it, and I couldn’t believe this was actually a thing that these guys made proudly. And not just because of the shitty production values.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oartIE7rKuM

      • John Orendorff

        One of the Mormon singers is black. I’m glad God changed his mind about them.

    • Hardly Ideal

      I remember seeing something like that in an old Maxim, in a list of things that shouldn’t be sexy but still are (if you’re kind of a creep). Among stuff like bicycle seats, pantie lines, and pregnancy, there was the burka. “There are rumors that they wear sexy things for their husbands underneath.”

      Spoiler alert: They mostly wear t-shirts and jeans, just like everyone else.

  • Anna Elizabeth

    I was thinking today, you all know what my Dad was doing to me. To the end of his days, he was also a Slut-shaming scold.

    The last few months of his life, we were all watching TV, and Dad says to me “That Jennifer Lopez has a fine singing voice. It’s just too bad she shows off her body for attention when she has such a gift.”

    Yeah.

    • How did he feel about Sister Bertrille?

      • Anna Elizabeth

        Oh, good wholesome entertainment.

        He was a Deacon of the Southern Baptist church, he hated cleavage, makeup, and dirty words unless he was screaming “Goddammit, catch the goddam ball” at the TV during NFL games.

        • TakingAmes

          Oy. I grew up Southern Baptist, and the vast majority are lovely, if a tad misguided, people. A few are real bastards, though, and think it’s okay to be such because they are in positions of power.

          • Anna Elizabeth

            I’ve known some Southern Baptists that seemed nice. I can never forget what an awful, hate-filled racist and abuser my father was though.

          • TakingAmes

            And I’m so, so sorry you had to go through that.

          • Anna Elizabeth

            Thank you. :) I try every day to be better human being than the people whom raised me.

          • Shanzgood

            You knocked it outta the park already.

          • Anna Elizabeth

            ~hugs~

          • Natalie Au Natural Hedonist

            You are. And that’s a great goal.

          • Anna Elizabeth

            ~hugs~

          • Natalie Au Natural Hedonist

            Smooches!

  • btwbfdimho
    • Natalie Au Natural Hedonist

      I have those shoes they have led lights in them.

  • Anna Elizabeth

    OT – just got an eMail from the British fella that approached earlier….. :)

    • Dept. of Space Tacos

      you have no idea how excited I am for about this. I hope he’s nice and sweet and funny and good in the sack and ALL THAT STUFF!

      Yay!

      • Anna Elizabeth

        Thanx, Hun. It’s certainly off to a good start. :)

    • whitroth

      *sigh* I saw two women this morning that I thought were lovely.

      Unfortunately, they were both probably thirtysomething, young enough to be my daugthers… and both *really* strongly reminded me of my late wife.

      I”m looking forward to getting home and a strong drink, and the company of my Lord&Master. Need his purrrssss

      • Anna Elizabeth

        ~hugs~

        • whitroth

          Thank you, I’ll take all I can get. Hell, humans are primates, and there’s supposed to be lots of touching, it’s hardwired in. Trying to find companionship at my age is hard, and it’s awful lonely here.

          • Anna Elizabeth

            ~hugs~ I hear you. And all the stress Dampnut is causing is not helping any of us.

          • whitroth

            It was a few months ago that there was a new story that something like 75% of *all* Americans were showing signs of extreme stress, and that included 1 in 5 of Trump voters.

    • wide_stance_hubby

      Good luck (but, be careful)!

      • Anna Elizabeth

        I will, I promise. And thank you. :)

  • Rocket Pony Ron

    I think… there’s another part to this. Somehow, our culture has decided that it isn’t going to believe that ‘shit happens.’ That sometimes things happen because of bad luck, or coincidence, or because some guy three towns over had a bad day. Add to that two thousand or so years of Christianist victim-blaming and you get poor people who think they deserve to be poor, you get women who think they got attacked because they ‘did something wrong.’
    Why do we do this to ourselves?

    • rosenbomb

      I was just thinking on this. To me, it seems like intellectual laziness combined with Christianist victim-blaming. It’s easy to blame an individual woman or a poor person for their situation, but it’s difficult to grapple with the enormity of rape cultural and systemic oppression. Plus, blaming an individual fits in with the whole bootstraps narrative.

  • Michael R
  • Bitter Scribe

    Last night I read the New Yorker article about Weinstein. What an utter, absolute pig. He hit on everyone, from stars like Gweynth Paltrow to a temp working at his production company.

    To me it’s a question of character. If you have power over young women, do you take advantage of it, and them, just because you can? Or do you behave like a decent human being?

    • chortlingdingo

      There were a few male celebrities who came forward to say that they had been sexually harassed and assaulted by bigwigs too. I was kind of shocked to hear that even men aren’t safe in Hollywood.

      • Ninja0980

        All about power and control.

      • It’s a control thing, being able to cow a big, strong guy like Terry Crews has got to be a head trip for these sickos.

        • Swampgas_Man

          And let’s not forget to throw in, a RACE thing. Half the thrill for this “Hollywood High-Roller” was no doubt making an African-American man look weak and helpless.

      • LeftyProud

        But the males are not naming names, are they? It’s the women who are doing so.

      • JMP

        Terry Crews’ story was especially shocking, considering that he’s a huge muscular former pro football player turned actor, and proves that you can prevent sexual assault if you’re tough and able to fight back is complete bullshit.

    • Beanz&Berryz

      Grrr… It makes me ragey when anyone uses a position of greater power or status over anyone else in any way that’s inappropriate, from sexual advances to simple rudeness. Being a dick to someone with less power doesn’t show a person’s power, it shows the lack of character and decency.

      • Shanzgood

        That’s why I have nothing but contempt for people who are shitty to waitstaff. That includes poor tippers.

        • Beanz&Berryz

          And cashiers. And clerical staff. And delivery folks. And so many others, across so many jobs and life situations.

          • RobGinChicago

            And yes, you too, Stephen Miller, who expect school janitors to clean up the mess you make.

    • btwbfdimho
  • If dressing modestly prevented sexual assault, the most backwards theocracies would all be feminist utopias.

  • wide_stance_hubby

    So, if I drove a fancy car (which I do not), it would be my own fault if it were stolen and/or vandalized, right?

    • HazooToo

      There are actually people who would happily blame you for that if you parked it somewhere “unsafe”.

      • Professor Fate

        yes but they still would insist that the folks that stole it, had they gotten caught go to jail.

        • Shanzgood

          Bingo. Our culture doesn’t support and protect thieves. It supports abusers because of who the vast majority of them ARE.

        • JMP

          Even as in reality false reports of car theft are much more common (in order to commit insurance fraud) than actual false reports of rape.

    • justifiable

      Right. And I bet your house is just asking for it, too.

  • Panika MCD

    I would say that FLDS isn’t a faith so much as it’s a bastardization of a list of tenets to get away with child sexual abuse. no women in the church are over the age of 24.

    LDS: normal, but don’t drink coffee and think they can save your soul after you die.
    TLDS: like LDS, but with polygamy still.
    FLDS: fucking child rapists.

  • Mike Steele

    Does that mean the modestly-attired ladies in Muslim nations never experience sexual harassment, attacks or denegration? We think not.

    • Hardly Ideal

      I was gonna say, there are places where women can’t show much more than their eyes and hands, and even that isn’t modest enough for some.

    • Biel_ze_Bubba

      Huge problem in India, too. Must be those revealing saris that they wear.

      • AnnieGetYerFun

        No lie – I know lots of Indian Muslim men who say exactly that.

  • Thank you, Robyn, for your eminently logical statements. Man, are people stupid or what? You see, Officer, I saw that chocolate cake in the window so I had to smash the window and eat it. I’m really not guilty because that cake just looked so damned tasty.

  • Red Bird

    Blossom doesn’t realize that what really protected her from being assaulted by Hollywood creeps was probably the fact that her parents protected her while she was young and then sent her off to college before she had to deal with it as a young adult.

    • Mehmeisterjr

      One of the most horrifying incidents about good old Hollywood was in Shirley Temple’s autobiography. One day, big-shot producer Arthur Freed exposed himself to her.

      She was so young that she just giggled at him, which shut down his pencil.

      But, crap, he pulled that stunt on Shirley Temple!

      I don’t even remember hearing that much of a reaction when her book came out.

    • JMP

      That, and probably just good luck in that the executives who worked on Blossom apparently did not include any of the way too many creeps in Hollywood.

    • Wonky Magoo

      She was stable, and had a supportive family. They go for kids who look like targets, and that has NOTHING to do with how they’re dressed.

  • Alienist

    While I do think that sometimes the victim is blamed, I think that too often, in an effort not to blame the victim, we deny the victim any role in influencing their situation. For example, I was mugged in Houston, Texas when I was in medical school. When I reported the crime, the police told me that the muggers had picked me out as a target because I showed a seemingly valuable watch (it wasn’t very) when a man asked me the time. They told me that this was how area muggers were picking out those who were wealthy enough to rob. Were they blaming me for the mugging? No. There were giving me information about things that can make me a target for crime. The muggers remain responsible. The fact that I did things that brought me to their attention does not excuse them. Still, it is wise for me to know what kinds of things put me at additional risk. Will this ensure that I am never mugged again? No, but it will reduce the chances.

    A similar argument can be made for sexual assault. There are people out there with little self control and/or evil intentions. There are things that a person can do to bring themselves to these people’s attention. There are common things that arouse sexual desire and might be best avoided if one is to be around people with little respect for others. There are other things that are uncommon sources of sexual arousal (fethish-like situations) that we cannot anticipate and control (modest clothing, uniforms/habits, etc.) We would do well to recognize that we serve as stimuli for those we are around and that we have at least some control over how we present ourselves to others. If they break the law, they are responsible, but I don’t want to make myself a target of their criminal behavior.

    Let’s give back to crime victims the knowledge that there are things they can do to make them less vulnerable to criminals. People who have a sense of controlling their lives have less PTSD when confronted with trauma.

    • Anna Elizabeth

      No. I did not invite my father to rape and molest me when I was little, and whether I am wearing jeans, a skirt, or Booty shorts to go shopping I am *not* inviting assault from anyone.

      • TakingAmes

        And even if I *were* advertising for sex, no one should assume I’m advertising for sex with THEM.

        • Alienist

          If you are advertising for sex, you might not come up with the customer you want, you may get the one who is simply the most impulsive and uncaring. It is wise to control who you advertise to.

          • Wonky Magoo

            You can still say “No” to the customer.

          • Alienist

            Unless your “customer” has a gun, or is huge, or… You can take the risk if you like, but you are responsible for at least some of the risk you take.

      • Alienist

        I did not say that anyone was “inviting assault.” And it is true that some people have more control over sexual assaults than others. Still, if one can grow and learn how to control future risk for victimization (even if learning to recognize what traits your father had that can warn you of future abusers) one can have some influence managing future risk by learning who you can safely be around and who you should probably shouldn’t.

        • Anna Elizabeth

          And again, I get harassed whatever I wear, whatever I do, when*ever* I leave my home.

          • Alienist

            That is terrible and goes to show how many men there are that do not control themselves well. Be extra careful around them or stay away from them if you can. Not all men are harassers, but when you know they are around, try not to make yourself too easy of a target.

            I am not putting all the responsibility on the women. Men should teach men to behave better and treat all others with respect. But given the world we live in, it is good to manage what kinds of responses we are likely to evoke in others.

          • JMP

            “I am not putting all the responsibility on the women”

            …. holy shit.

            Look, I’m still admitting the rapists are also at fault and not solely blaming the victims! You’re still fucking blaming the victims. The fact that you are putting any responsibility on the victims instead of none at all proves that you need to go fuck yourself.

          • Anna Elizabeth

            I know not all men are harassers. I was approached by an attractive man today, smoothly done.

            And again, I get harassed Every time I leave my home. I manage it all by being ready to run or fight if the situation escalates, and other than that I refuse to hide.

        • Wonky Magoo

          Women don’t need to be told to do that, though. It’s like advising them to run away, or fight back. Like, no shit, if they can they do. That’s why there isn’t MORE rape. So, what else can we do?

          • Alienist

            Much of the time, when it comes down to fight or flight, many possible choices are gone. If there is any way to recognize dangerous people and dangerous situations before they become threatening, then they might be avoided or controlled. These situations vary from person to person, however. I have no answer for everyone, but I believe an answer exists for anyone.

    • JMP

      Go fuck yourself.

      • Shanzgood

        Seriously. This shit again.

      • Alienist

        Witty.

    • Professor Fate

      here’s the difference – the police did not say not only was it your fault but that there was no crime. in the case of rape and other sexual crimes that happens a lot. That is why what the Rep said is so poisonous.

      • Alienist

        I did not see where the rep said that no crime occurred. I did not see where she said that rapists were excused because of what the victim did. If it is there, please point it out to me.

        This is different from what lawyers may try for defense. I am not in any way defending rapists, I am trying to protect potential victims.

        • Shanzgood

          You’re not telling us anthing different from the same bullshit we’ve been hearing forever.

          • Alienist

            I’m afraid you may simply not be understanding what I’m saying. I’m giving women credit for being able to manage their risk. You seem to think that they are passive victims of all powerful men.

          • JMP

            I’m empowering women by telling them its’ their own fault if they get raped!

            Seriously, go fuck yourself. Or keep digging that hole if you really want to alienate everybody who is not a victim-blaming ass!

          • Alienist

            JMP, read a post. Your statement has nothing to do with what I’ve posted, troll.

          • JMP

            It’s really so clever when the troll calls the regular calling them out on their bullshit a troll, really it is. And reread your own victim-blaming bullshit because to claim that your constant screeching of “if a woman gets raped it’s her own fault!” has nothing to do with what I said there is a hugely ridiculous lie.

          • Shanzgood

            No, I don’t, you condescending prat.

          • Alienist

            Then tell me what I have posted to offend you.

          • Shanzgood

            No need. Everyone else has already told you.

          • Alienist

            They are all wrong. They say I blame women. I do not. They seem to think I excuse raping men. I do not. If you cannot say what offends you, I think you are not thinking clearly.

          • Anna Elizabeth

            And, I tried. *block*

          • Shanzgood

            DSFB material.

          • Anna Elizabeth

            I don’t like being ‘splained about this subject, and Dude just keeps digging in.

          • Shanzgood

            Sounds a bit like Wolfie, doesn’t he?

          • Anna Elizabeth

            I’m not sure. I thought at first a conversation was possible.

          • Shanzgood

            That’s how how Wolfie was, too. Seemed reasonable until he just couldn’t help being a patronizing jackass.

          • Anna Elizabeth
          • Alienist

            A conversation was possible, but I found few people who seemed to understand what I was posting. I tried to make it plain, but was told again and again that I was saying things that I knew I disagreed with. I tried to ask people to tell me where I was wrong, but kept getting told that I had been told again and again. Given that I strongly disagreed with what I was told I said, I have to assume that I am being misunderstood.

            I wish I could make myself clear or that others could tell me where I am misunderstanding them. Believe it or not, I do not want to offend or be disagreeable. I simply believe it is important that people not let their trauma define them and distort their view of the world. Clinically, this means making sure that they have a realistic (not overly pessimistic or optimistic) view of themselves and their world. In my judgment, which has generally worked well for my patients, this means not seeing themselves as too powerful (and responsible) or too weak (and vulnerable).

          • starfanglednut

            I feel like I’ve seen him around before wolf ever showed up. But they do have a similar mind-numbing, repetitive willful obtuseness.

          • Shanzgood

            And so many words saying the same tired bullshit “advice” we’ve all heard before that STILL doesn’t stop assaults. It’s exhausting.

          • Alienist

            I guess it’s ironic, I am feeling an obtuseness from my critics. It seems that they are not getting my point.

          • JMP

            Since your “point” is just a wordy variation on “if a woman is wearing a short skirt, she’s asking to be raped!”, no, we all get it very much; your critics, which is everyone, are rejecting it because it is a very stupid and wrong point.

          • Alienist

            That’s insulting. I argue, sure, but I argue in good faith.

          • JMP

            Bwahaha! There is nothing in good faith at about your sea lioning trolling.

          • Parakeetist

            Me too. The block button smites him with justice!

          • JMP

            “They are all wrong.”

            Hahahaha! “No, it is everyone else who is wrong!”. Keep fucking that chicken.

        • efoveks

          To suggest that a woman is responsible for being raped shows a distinct lack of good judgement. In this day and age, this is inexcusably ignorant. You are clearly out of your depth here, and sinking fast.

          • Alienist

            Why is everyone saying that I said a woman is responsible if she is raped? She has a role in determining her risk. She can make herself more vulnerable or less vulnerable. I am sure that she does not want to be raped, but she may be unaware of what puts her at increased risk. People who care about her will help her to be aware and to manage her risk. People who don’t care will say, “O well, it’s just those terrible men” and leave her at increased risk. Shouldn’t the woman have the knowledge and ability to determine how much risk she wants to put up with?

        • Professor Fate

          I wasn’t referring to the rep, I was merely pointing out a very ugly reality that the police and the DA’s are reluctant to even bring charges because of the deeply rooted belief that women who are raped somehow brought in on themselves. So bad is it that a majority of rapes and sexual assaults are not reported and this also ignores the even uglier fact that most women are raped by people know.
          Rape and sexual assault are not crimes of passion of unrestrained lust as it were, they are about power; the power to do something to a woman against her will , it doesn’t matter if they are in a bruka or stark naked – what they wear is irrelevant to the act at hand.
          And really you don’t think women already don’t think about this? Have thought about this or take precautions ? They do. And they get raped anyway.

          • Alienist

            I would disagree that rape is ONLY about power. It is controlled, like almost all human behavior, by many factors. There is a reason that sex offenders use sex aggressively. The sex component should not be overlooked.

            As for what women think about, it seems to vary widely from person to person. Some women are more aware and careful. Some women put themselves at horrible risk without being aware until something disastrous happens.

            I agree that rape continues to happen. How could I not? But women are not powerless to affect their risk level. I wish there was a way to reduce it to zero, but for now at least we need to give women the tools they need to manage their lives as well as they can.

          • Shanzgood

            You are focusing on the wrong part of the problem.

          • Alienist

            I am focusing on ALL parts of the problem.

            I have a daughter, and I would be devastated if she were assaulted. I try to teach everyone I come into contact with to treat EVERYONE with respect. But I cannot make them. So I try to teach my daughter to anticipate and recognize danger so she can avoid it or deal with it, if possible. I try to do this without making her anxious or overly sexually inhibited. She has to make a decision about how much risk she takes.

            It is cold comfort to know that rapists are responsible for their rapes. It is better to do what we can to make rapes even a little bit rarer.

          • Alienist

            As far as those who defend rapists, I don’t know what to say. Our legal system is adversarial, so I don’t know what can be done to protect sexual assault victims while giving the accused due process. Better legal minds than mine have to wrestle with this.

            I saw on PBS a story about a place on line where sexual assault victims can document their assault on a protected server so that it can be used as testimony without being “interpreted” by police or lawyers. Still, it is already a tragedy by the time it’s gone that far. I have forgotten the name of the site. Perhaps someone could find it and post it.

          • Professor Fate

            Society defends rapists, that’s the core problem. The Reps words are part and parcel of ‘she was asking for it defense’ that is successful because of the way society views rape victims as being to blame for what happened to them. A mugging victim for example is not going to have his or her life history paraded before a jury and have it suggested that since he gave money to charity he wanted the mugger to have the watch – however a woman’s sexual history is regarded as relevant in a rape case. .

    • rosenbomb

      “Let’s give back to crime victims the knowledge that there are things they can do to make them less vulnerable to criminals. People who have a sense of controlling their lives have less PTSD when confronted with trauma.”

      That is not how PTSD works. That’s not how any of this works.

      • Alienist

        It is exactly how PTSD works. One of the factors of resilience is the ability to see areas of control in the traumatic situation. It is the people who believe that they are utterly without the ability to influence the situation that are at increased risk of PTSD.

        • rosenbomb

          Well, here’s the rub. A heck of a lot of the time, people are NOT in control of the situation.

          A woman is not in control when she is raped. I was not in control when I had a gun pointed at my chest after a guy KICKED DOWN MY DOOR and broke into my house. An understanding of control vs. not control might come into play during treatment, but certainly not in the way you described. I sincerely hope you are not a mental health professional, because you are not suited to talk about trauma. You are participating in victim-blaming 101.

          • Alienist

            Well, oddly enough I am a PTSD specialist. My patients do not see me as blaming them. They appreciate the efforts to learn from their terrible situations and see that their victimizers bear the responsibility for their actions but that they can learn to manage their risk. They are not passive. The fact that they have choices (even if ineffective or unrecognized at the time of the trauma) gives them hope that they can avoid future episodes of trauma. It works.

          • rosenbomb

            Funny how everyone is a specialist on the internet!

            I’ll humor that. What code of ethics are you beholden to? I know NASW’s code, and I can definitely spot some ethical concerns with trying to coach traumatized people on how to “learn from their terrible situations” and “learn to manage their risk.” ‘Ah, yes,’ says the woman escaping a domestic violence situation. ‘Next time I won’t marry someone who threatens to kill me! That’s the ticket.’

            Also, you seem to be conflating resiliency factors with what you call “managing risk.” Yes, people in treatment need to see what is under their scope of control. But telling them that they somehow opened themselves up to the trauma in the first place is not helpful and is compounding the trauma at best.

          • Alienist

            You acknowledge that “they need to see what is under the scope of their control” but get offended by talk of “managing risk”? They are the same thing! You think that leaving women to believe that they were simply randomly picked from among all the inhabitants of earth is going to give them a more realistic view of their world?

            So if someone leaves their car running as they run into the store and it is stolen, did they deserve to get their car stolen? No. Is the thief less guilty because the car was running? No. Should they be berated for leaving their car running? No. Should they be told that leaving their car running made them a target for a car thief? Sure.

            Did I deserve to get mugged because I showed by watch? No. Are the muggers less guilty because I showed my watch? No. Was is good of the police to help me figure out how I got into the situation in the first place and how to avoid it in the future? Sure.

            With regard to specialists on the internet, yeah, there are a lot of fakers. But some specialists are on the internet and can give some helpful ideas.

          • starfanglednut

            So if you spend the rest of your life wearing a cheap watch and refusing to show it to people this manages your risk and increases your resiliency?

            You might want to consider a different line of work.

          • Alienist

            If I am careful under what conditions I show my valuables and take care not to go places where I can be isolated and robbed, I can reduce my risk to a level I find acceptable. By, the way, my work is going fine, thanks.

        • Wonky Magoo

          It’s funny how many rape victims, both child and adult, believe they were in control of the situation. They torture themselves, trying to figure out what they could have done differently, how they can stop it from happening again. It’s one of the hallmarks of PTSD. I don’t know where you’re getting your information about this from, it seems off.

        • Again, source?

          • JMP

            Alienist’s ass; probably a few “articles” from some hate site like A Voice for Men or Return of Kings too.

          • Alienist

            One last comment, them I’m blocking JMP troll. If he says something intelligent, I hope it benefits some of you. I’ll have no more to do with him.

          • JMP

            Oh no, the victim-blaming troll I’ve never even seen here before might block me? I feel so – honored, actually.

            Once again, go fuck yourself.

          • cleos_mom

            It’s not; but not exactly relevant to this particular subject either.

          • Alienist

            The National Center for PTSD has a website that lists factors that increase or decrease risk of PTSD after a trauma. The ideas I have been talking about are listed under the section on resilience.
            https://www.ptsd.va.gov/public/types/disasters/effects_of_disasters_risk_and_resilience_factors.asp

    • Wonky Magoo

      Sexual arousal does not lead to rape. I think your understanding of this crime is flawed.

      • Alienist

        Sexual arousal does lead to rape. Rape is (at least in part) a sexual crime. The fact that it is also violent and an act of control does not exclude a sexual motive.

        • Source?

          • Alienist

            One source is “A Natural History of Rape.” It does not argue that sex is the sole source of sexual assault, but it cites evidence that sex is frequently present along side the widely recognized motives of power, aggression, and control.

          • So, aren’t you making the point of others? For the folks that say rape isn’t about sex, but about power, aggression, and control, aren’t you kinda making that point. Sex is the means to aggression, power, and control.Aggression with a cum shot is still aggression.

          • Alienist

            It is also sex. I am not denying that it has other components as well. We ignore its sexual component at our peril. I am arguing for a broader view.

    • eka

      little self control? fuck that. rape is about power, not “self control”. this narrative of men being poor things who just can’t control themselves and women need to not tempt them is fucking toxic.

      • Alienist

        I’m not sure that power and self-control are mutually exclusive. Wasn’t it said many times that men should learn not to rape? Does that mean that they must give up their sex drive? No. Does it mean that they must give up their desire to use power? No. It means that they must learn to control themselves and only use their drives in ways that improve society and promote good relationships, not in ways that harm and shame others. It really is self-control.

        • starfanglednut

          I’m sorry, but if you need to use self-control not to rape, you’re seriously fucked up. I’ve never raped anyone, and didn’t find it difficult at all.

          • Alienist

            Good for you. Me either. But just because we don’t have problems in this area doesn’t mean that others don’t. Be careful around the others.

    • efoveks

      The “how she was dressed” thing is a false flag, and it is patronizing. It shows a lack of understanding as to why rape occurs.

      • Alienist

        How do you know? There is a sexual component to rape. It is undeniable. It is in the form of the assault. It is sex used as a weapon. The target is likely determined by many things. Sex is one of them (probably more important in some cases than in others). If you wanted to get yourself raped (but I cannot imaging why anyone would want to do that), I can tell you some good things to do. Go around people who have a history of not respecting others or observing boundaries. Make sure they are drunk so they have less control of themselves. Erotically tease them. Insult them and make them angry. Make them feel weak and emasculated. You can bring their sexual desire, their anger, their need to feel “masculine,” and their lack of self-control together to focus on you. Your risk will be tremendous. Still, if they assault you, it will be criminal and they are totally responsible. If you want to reduce your risk, you will consider how your presentation, behavior, and present company are likely to turn out and make whatever adjustments you think are helpful.

        I once had a patient who was upset that people were avoiding him. He could not understand it. He was about 6’4″ and 300 lbs. He wore a bandana and a “Bandidos” leather jacket. He had a full beard. He carried a bicycle chain. I pointed these things out to him. It surprised him that he looked so menacing. He was a really good guy and very sociable. When he went out better groomed and more casually dressed, people treated him much better. How we present ourselves to others matters — not completely, but at least some.

        • Shanzgood

          How’s that chicken doing?

          • starfanglednut

            He needs to at least use some lube on that poor chicken.

          • Alienist

            Huh? I used to like your posts and thought you were thoughtful. Not so much now.

        • efoveks

          Your ignorance is profound. The primary component of rape is violence. And your pedantry is annoying. Go home. You waste my time with your bull shit.

          • Shanzgood

            Seriously. He thinks what he’s suggesting is brand new and useful. We’ve been hearing it and doing it for generations. Assaults haven’t stopped.

          • Alienist

            Of course they haven’t. No crimes have. But some have become less prevalent. Also, I never said my advice was brand new. You made that up.

          • Alienist

            And you waste my time with yours. I treat many with PTSD with good success. I have spent years studying and treating PTSD. I have published research on PTSD. You, of course, don’t have to believe me, but if you paid attention to my posts you might get an education.

          • efoveks

            I AM well educated, thank you. :P

          • efoveks

            I read your posts. That’s how I know you are wasting my time with your bullshit. Studying PTSD does not make you any kind of expert on rape or how to treat rape victims. A well educated person knows their limits, and your posts demonstrate a self-impressed know-nothing.

          • Alienist

            Projection much?

          • efoveks

            No. You?

          • Alienist

            No, thanks. It’s just that you don’t seem to be responding to me but to something in your own head.

          • Alienist

            If 25 years of studying PTSD and sitting with hundreds of PTSD patients does not give me a right to an informed opinion, I don’t know what does. You blow me off casually without understanding a thing I post. Your uninformed summation of who you suppose I am shows little interest in the truth or any kind of serious communication.

          • efoveks

            Actually, it doesn’t. Your credentials, your papers and the good opinion of your peers might, but they are not here and quite frankly, years of research in PTSD does NOT give you the right to speak about the crime of rape as an expert. As for serious communication and the truth– where is your interest? Your self-righteous BS is getting boring. You are blocked. Bye!

          • Alienist

            My interest is in the truth. The truth about how people respond to trauma. The truth about both how it hurts and how it can be overcome. The truth that fights against blind spots that keep people at unnecessary risk. The truth that lets people know that they can influence the direction of their lives and take responsibility for their risks without taking the responsibility for the actions of others. My interest is not a blatant self-interest, if that is what you were implying. My interest is in the well-being of my patients.

            With regard to this “self-righteous” judgement you made. I haven’t the foggiest idea where that came from. Yes, I believe that I am right. I have the experience and education to back it up. I do not believe that these make me a better person than any others, but it makes me a better source of information than others. I have attacked nobody. I have been attacked by people who, for whatever reason that they will not explain, disregard reasonable, well-founded ideas.

        • Dept. of Space Tacos

          the bandidos are known violent criminal gang – your patient was dumb.

    • Ginnie Sack

      First off, I’m sorry you had that experience. It must have been very traumatic. However, there is a huge difference between robbery and rape. You were robbed of your watch because it was an object that was valuable to the thief. Rapists rape because it is a power trip, not because they want a specific person. It’s all about the power, not the value of the object.

      • Alienist

        Thanks, they also took my wedding ring, a cardiovascular physiology syllabus (I’m sure they got good use of that), a backpack, and the Valentine’s Day present I had just bought for my wife. While I agree that this is not the same as a rape, I don’t think it is totally different either. The muggers seemed to enjoy the power they had over me while they took things from me. Much of it was worth nothing to them. It was a power trip in addition to taking things of value. It was greed, power, aggression, and control. Rape is (in no particular order) sex, power, aggression, and control. Either one is criminal. I think the rape is especially despicable.

    • Bemused

      It doesn’t matter what a woman wears, she can be accused of dressing immodestly by someone. In California, you are considered reasonably attired if you aren’t naked (except for certain beaches on which total lack of attire is considered reasonable). In some places you need to have your knees and shoulders covered. In some places women need to be in long skirts. In some places, we have to cover our hair. In some places no skin at all is allowed. This isn’t a “women don’t dress modestly” problem.

      • Alienist

        No, this is a sexual assault problem, for which men are disproportionately guilty. Still, there are things people can do to modify their risks. It would be wonderful if there were things people could do to eliminate their risks, but that does not seem to be in our future.

      • cleos_mom

        But we knew at least one apologist would show up.

    • I see your basic premise. Granted…I’m not going to start naked vogue-ing in the middle of a pride of lions. My technical term for that is “lunch”. But…we’re not talking about the Serengeti plane are we? We talking about the office…we’re talking about the church rectory (love that word), we’re talking about the only good job in a town that lacks good jobs.

      Flip the scene. What if I were a dude in such a town and I had a family to feed. My female boss says, if I want to keep said job, I must perform cunnilingus 7 times a day or some other ridiculous request. What do I do?

      Yes…wearing crotch-less panties in a dodgey part of town might be a bad idea…but what the fuck do you do when the place of assault is the very same place that you need stay in to feed your kids?

      • Alienist

        Those kinds of situations are the worst. I have several patients in similar conditions, and it seems that there are few good choices. Sometimes we come up with options like women’s shelters, divorce, pressing charges for ongoing assaults, enlisting healthy family support, etc., but the patient (for her own reasons and due to her own knowledge of her abuser) decides that it is best to stay in the abusive situation. I urge them to keep their eyes open for options they might take advantage of, and I don’t give up looking for solutions. Still, these are the most frustrating cases I deal with. Even worse, I know it’s much worse for them.

  • Professor Fate

    “We also need to start talking about the power that women have to control the situation

    Rrrrrright.
    God in heaven we are so messed up. Hey Rep Johnson in order to control the situation, women should just soak ever man they meet down with mace. yeah it’s a bit over board but better safe that sorry Hmmmm?

  • Skeptical_thinker

    I am an old, white male. I have done things that I regret, things I have sincerely apologized for and things I am very proud of. In short, I am a human being.

    I have never raped a woman, I have always taken “No” to mean no, even when I was a horny teen. I had a female roommate in college who was an avowed nudist (and statuesque beauty). I never touched her in an inappropriate way.

    Over the years, several women, including my sister, have confided in me that they were sexually, physically and verbally assaulted, demeaned and even raped. I had only one reaction to this information: “I am so sorry that you had to suffer that”.

    We need to make our society safe for women and men. No one should be abused, assaulted or raped, ever.

    • Parakeetist

      Yes

  • CindyinEncinitas

    Perhaps Mayim wants all temptresses removed to the Magdalene Laundries so they can be safe. Wasn’t she on “What Not to Wear” once for dressing too slutty?

    • Serai 1

      How about reading WHAT SHE WROTE before jumping on the bitches-kill-each-other bandwagon?

      • CindyinEncinitas

        Okay busted. I’m in a library and I skipped the article. I do apologize. She makes great points and I do admire and respect her.

        • Serai 1

          Sorry about the yell, but this has me really mad. Way too many women who should know better are being awful about it. Seems women are encourage to tell their truth only if it makes everybody feel good about themselves.

          • CindyinEncinitas

            Thanks for the feedback. Someday I will learn to be less apt to pop off.

          • Serai 1

            HA. You and me both! :D

      • cleos_mom

        Read “WHAT SHE WROTE”.

        Not impressed.

        Be as offended as you like; I have no reason to care.

        • Serai 1

          Well, since I wasn’t talking to you, I have no reason to care about your callous apathy.

    • Sunnyinwyoming

      No she wasn’t on for dressing slutty, she was on for dressing badly. She was actually lovely in that episode, she paid for all the clothes herself because she could, and was in general very nice and gracious.

      • CindyinEncinitas

        It was a poor attempt at a joke. I watched the episode and she is darling.

        • Sunnyinwyoming

          Ahh…not the first time a joke has gone right over my head I’m afraid :)

  • TakingAmes

    I don’t think that was the main point of Mayim Bialik’s piece. My takeaway was that she wanted to make sure that her sons are raised to not rape and harass women because it is prevalent and we have to teach men not to rape. But I get where you’re coming from, and I did bristle at the “dressing modestly” portion of the piece.

  • Aileen

    Let’s take this to its logical extreme, the burqa, about as modest as it gets. And what happens to women in countries where burqas are required attire? Not only are they brutally raped on the regular, but they are then punished for being raped – either simply killed by their families for bringing dishonor to them, or forced to marry their rapist, or publicly stoned to death. Women light themselves on fire because the alternative, a life of violence and abuse, is worse than burning to death.

  • Werewolf

    Mayim Bialik did apologize for that column today-real apology, not “sorry if you were offended”. FWIW.

    • justifiable

      Hey, I’m sorry that she’s a passive-aggressive victim-blaming cunt with an inferiority complex.

      Not sorry in the least if she’s offended.

  • altleftjohn

    I don’t remember being taught not to rape women. Must have been around the time I was taught not to kill people or rob banks.

    • WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot

      Maybe all the Republican’t religiousy types are slow learners?

  • Kip TW

    “205 Comments”
    “Show 169 New Comments”
    “Be the first to comment.”

    Oh, Disqus!

    • altleftjohn

      Such a tease.

      • Kip TW

        It’s like Disqus is asking for …I dunno, something. Cheese, maybe.

        • CafeenMan

          There’s no such thing as too much cheese, bacon or hot fudge.

          • ahughes798

            Or creme brulee.

          • Kip TW

            Or even enough hot fudge, in my experience.

  • Stulexington

    It’s horrible that we’re still talking about how a woman might control a rapist. The whole point is the rapist is in control. To turn around and start talking about how a woman could have controlled a situation the rapist set up to have complete control within is absolutely insane.

    • jowgajen

      But men just can’t help themselves, donchyaknow?

      • WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot

        Just ask “Mother” Pence.

  • WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot

    Just occurred to me. Maybe the “need” for modest female attire is to better conceal the pew-pew feminine guns that you guys are supposed to shoot all the inappropriate dudes with, a la the NRA advice to the love-lorn column.

  • Edith Prickly

    NOOOOO, no no no. This is not and has never been about women’s behaviour. This has always been about powerful men thinking that they are entitled to help themselves to any female that wanders into their line of sight. It’s about control and domination. Harvey Weinstein had a deliberate strategy for targeting young actresses and making sure they kept quiet afterwards. Polygamists like Warren Jeffs programmed the women to accept his decisions and kicked out any troublesome young men in order to minimize the competition.

  • I had this discussion with a co-worker a while ago. I said, well shit…why don’t we just go full burka…and he said, burka hell..you can’t leave the house unless you’re in the company of a male family member…which is cool and all until you’re raped by your uncle.

    Why don’t we just teach boys not to rape?

    • Trump’s Potemkin Village

      What? That goes against the tenets of the penis-centric god these Abrahamic cult members worship.

      • Keith Taylor

        Talking of Abraham … bring back sacrifice of the first-born too. It’s true. We just aren’t religious enough any more.

    • JMP

      I like how a common MRA response to this is “so why don’t you suggest that we respond to car accidents by teaching drivers not to run over pedestrians?” and they actually think it’s clever, failing to understand that we do teach drivers just that.

  • Serai 1

    NO SHE DID NOT SAY THAT.

    God DAMN, why is it so difficult to read WHAT PEOPLE ACTUALLY SAY?

    • Shanzgood

      I read the whole article and came away with a similar impression to Robyn’s. Plus a little bit of schadenfreude on Bialik’s part.

      • Ms.MLG on Maui

        Same. I have never been a 10, never been thin, always been smart as hell, and I have been assaulted and harassed by various men many times in my life. She is just lucky, and takes that luck to mean something she did prevented harassment and assault. “I dressed modestly”. Those are her exact words. What else is that supposed to mean, if not, I dressed modestly, so no one assaulted or harassed me? People can certainly read the same words, and come away with different impressions from those words. My distinct impression was that Mayim thinks HER actions prevented certain things from happening to her, and that is simply not true.

      • justifiable

        That disgusting, self-congratulatory “wise” is beyond condescending. She sure as hell has a problem with what she sees as careless, stupid – and more attractive than she is – women, and has found a nice passive-aggressive way to get some payback. The fact that she’s continued to made the “vicious” pushback all about her being a victim comes as no fucking surprise.

        • Shanzgood

          I didn’t read the apology because I lacked both the energy and the interest.

    • HarpyLibtart

      You mean the things she SAID like;
      “I still make choices every day as a 41-year-old actress that I think of as self-protecting and wise. I have decided that my sexual self is best reserved for private situations with those I am most intimate with. I dress modestly. I don’t act flirtatiously with men as a policy.”
      Oh look, backhanded slut-shaming.
      “In a perfect world, women should be free to act however they want. But our world isn’t perfect…But we can’t be naïve about the culture we live in.”
      Oh look, backhanded victim blaming.
      Not to mention the slight creepiness of how she keeps going in on ‘conventionally attractive’ girls – you don’t have to ‘diet, get plastic surgery or hire a personal trainer’ to get sexually assaulted, Mayim, maybe put down that cross for a minute.
      She may have had the best of intentions, but it was a poorly judged article for which she is being rightly criticized.

    • justifiable

      First, you read what people ACTUALLY WROTE.

      Second, as to reading comprehension – fucking get some, because she most certainly did.

  • Bemused

    I periodically have this discussion with various Trad-Catholics who are into the no knees, no shoulders, no cleavage thing. It is not women’s job to control male “urges” or not be “distracting”. Men in the middle east claim they are so distracted if they see an inch of women’s skin that they can’t possible be focused and on task. I live in California. I have worked with perfectly focused men who were around women wearing a tank top and shorts. A woman’s skin isn’t somehow less distracting in California than it is in the middle east. What is different is male attitude. The men in California do not expect a woman to be covered in a Burqa and are used to being around women who show skin so their viewpoint has adjusted. If we have to adjust the way we dress, we are expected to dress more and more and more modestly until we are covered head to toe in black cloth, which is not just distracting, but an actual physical hindrance. Maybe the guys who have an issue should adjust their viewpoint instead.

    • Shanzgood

      Maybe if they can’t function properly in a world filled with women THEY should stay sequestered at home.

      • Bemused

        “I’m sorry, sir, but you may not leave the house without being covered in a restrictive black blanket and you must be in the company of a woman, who will be held responsible for your behavior.”

        “What?! It’s like a thousand degrees outside AND I need to run to the store.”

        “Unfortunately, men have been reported to have uncontrollable impulses towards sexual violence against women. Even the men themselves have admitted that men just can’t stop themselves. Therefore, we require you to be dressed in a garment that will restrict your ability to see these women and will hamper your ability to attack or run after them. We also suggest that your female caretaker carry a tranq gun in case you get out of control. Have a nice day, sir.”

        :P

      • efoveks

        THIS!

      • Keith Taylor

        Now that sounds like a good idea to me!

  • efoveks

    Rape is a crime of violence.

  • And some men say women are the weaker sex. Fuck that, mister. If a woman walks by in leggings and you can’t “help yourself” you are weak weak little shitstain.

    • btwbfdimho

      It’s on the bible: “honor your wife as the weaker vessel “.
      https://www.desiringgod.org/labs/honor-your-wife-as-the-weaker-vessel

      • cleos_mom

        Of course there’s that matter of making the husband in a marriage “a type of Christ” and the wife “a type of the Church.”

        Christian theology – Christ = the third aspect of the Godhead. The Church = a community of limited, fallible human beings desperately needing ‘salvation’ from the very God they worship.

        I’ll be honored as the stronger vessel thankyouverymuch.

  • Angela Ruzzo

    My mother told me in 1968 when I was 12 and “became a woman” that men only want one thing, and it doesn’t matter how you act or dress, they still want it and will try to get it by any means possible, and women had to be on their guard every second. I went off to college in 1974 looking forward to this in a certain sense, and discovered she had overstated things just a bit. But then I entered the work force, and to my great surprise discovered that she was right. I had three supervisors in the first 10 years whose names I won’t mention because I am waiting for them to die so I can write about them in my autobiography, but evil white men seem to live forever.

  • Trump’s Potemkin Village

    “Studies have shown that women on juries are less likely to convict a rapist than men are.”

    Horrible, but believable. Sometimes women are women’s own worst enemies.

    • Ms.Moon

      This past election is more than enough evidence of this. 53% of white women voted for Trump.

      • Natalie Au Natural Hedonist

        My mother was born in 1925, she never thought anything was a mans fault. She was an otherwise rational person. She was very much a product of her time.
        I like men as friends and sometimes as lovers. But even I know there are predators out there. I’ve run into a few and we all as a society need to stop justifying that behavior.

  • Petunia Cat

    Excellent analysis. I’m not gonna bother to point out what a weirdo Mayim Bialik is. (Attachment parenting, woman scientist demeaning sitcom character)

    • shocker

      This is really OT, but attachment parenting is what people have been doing since the beginning of humanity. Everything can be taken to extreme but breastfeeding and sleeping with baby are good for baby.

      • justifiable

        Not when baby is four fucking years old, it isn’t. It might be good for “baby” in theory, but not so hot for the marriage in practice. Which may explain why Bialik is divorced.

        Also, look up the incidences of how many parents have rolled over and smothered their infants while “co-sleeping” with them. Those sort of deaths have also occurred “since the beginning of humanity” because humanity is often too unbelievably fucking stupid.

  • Velska

    Sexual assault such as rape, groping & harassing jokes is not about sex. It’s about power. Some have the personality to avoid the close harassment of bosses & acquaintances: forceful, confident, not taking any guff from anybody. However, the wolf whistles and lewd stares are by no means dependent on anything. For some guys all they need is to know it’s a woman.

    I have a wife and three daughters, and they all added their #metoo hash tags. Thankfully they’ve not been raped but groped, propositioned, and other such bullshit.

    Again, a predator is a predator: a woman’s apparel has nothing to do. I know my wife’s never dressed immodestly. It’s not in her. Same with my daughters. Yet the predatory males have paid their “compliments” to them or told their light-hearted double-entendre “jokes”. Or pawed. Our youngest daughter slapped a guy who groped her. That took care of him.

  • MuttsRule

    Rep. Johnson is around my mother’s age. Here is my fundamentalist Christian mother’s explanation to me when I was a teenager about why nice girls could never be actresses in Hollywood:
    1. Everyone knows that evil male studio heads pick actresses based on their “casting couch” auditions.
    2. Young, naive girls are no match for the studio heads, and the only way to land a job as an actress is to trade their virtue, which as everyone knows, is a girl’s most valuable possession.
    3. Therefore, girls who want to become actresses are SLUTS.
    No wonder so many women of that generation just got married straight out of high school, transferred from their fathers’ custody into the custody of their new husbands, virtue intact.
    OT: Also why does Rep. Johnson deny the Armenian genocide?

  • DoILookAmused2u? Résistance☨

    There are men who will fuck a sheep.

    That’s really all you need to know.

    That’s right, the sheep were being provocative. I kid, I kid.

    • CafeenMan

      No kidding… sheep need love too!

    • Jon Sussex

      I see what ewe did there.

      • JustDon’tSayConfabulation

        That pun was kinda lamb.

        • ahughes798

          It was shear torture.

          • JustDon’tSayConfabulation

            it was ba-a-a-a-ad

    • TundraGrifter

      Virgin wool comes from ugly sheep. Or something.

    • Jena-Auerstedt

      “Kid” refers to goats, not sheep.

      • GHERKINS OF RESTIVENESS!

        I thought Erick Erickson “refers” to goats?

    • amrak63
  • Lance Thrustwell

    Thank you Robyn, for your sanity and common sense. You are absolutely right. A woman wearing, say, a thong bikini in public will get catcalled more. She will get propositioned more. Hell, she might even get pinched on the butt more.

    But raped more? That is an entirely different kettle of fish.

    • Jukesgrrl

      Yes, rapists tend to go for those who look powerless. A woman strutting around in a thong bikini will look self-assured. That’s not what these men want. They seek naive, confused, young, needy, weak in some way.

  • CafeenMan

    Oh comon…. I can almost see those lady’s ankles. It’s a good thing I have no idea where they are because I don’t know if I could control myself around women so clearly asking for it.

    • Jena-Auerstedt

      And the wrists! And the hands! And the faces and hair! Oh, God . . . .

    • Keith Taylor

      Yeah. I guess rape never happened, ever ever ever, to ladies who wore crinolines. Oh, wait, though. In Victorian England only sluts let a man get even a glimpse of their ankles — but décolletage was often jaw-dropping even by our standards today. The measure of “dressing modestly” is ratbag inconsistent, always, and the basic argument, as Robyn valuably points out, is a false and moronic one. I’m about to do as she suggests and google “Amish sexual assault.” I haven’t done that before. I wonder if I’ll find that the preachers are the biggest offenders?

      • JustDon’tSayConfabulation

        But also too, let’s not forget rule 34.

  • Thorn Spike

    Is that a Pence family reunion?

    “Oh, Mother, Where Art Thou?”

  • Lambsendbeds

    When I was raped walking my dog, I wondered what I could have done differently. That’s despite the fact that two men walking down the street spotted me, changed direction, and grabbed me. Was I in the wrong place at the wrong time? Well, yes, but that doesn’t change the fact that two men, on impulse, decided to rape me, just because I was there.

    When I was repeatedly raped by my alcoholic live in boyfriend, I thought it was my fault.

    Well, fuck that shit – my attitude has been adjusted! I know that the problem was with the men involved. Men who thought I was theirs to use. Men who didn’t see me as a person. I didn’t do anything to bring this upon myself. It took years of therapy to get to this point, but those men haven’t got power over me any more.

    • TundraGrifter

      I’m very sorry to read that – except for the part where you understand you did nothing wrong. Because you didn’t.

    • Shanzgood

      I’m glad you’re…doing better? Is that the right way to put it? I know I am. And happy if you are, too.

      • Lambsendbeds

        I am, thanks. As I said, it took years and a bazillion Ameros worth of therapy, but I don’t get triggered any more. I can feel empathy for anyone who has had to endure a sexual assault without flashbacks to my own.

        I’m glad you’re doing better also too. We’re stronger than dirt, we wimmins. ( reference to an old floor cleaner commercial. “Mr Clean is stronger than dirt!”)

        • Shanzgood

          The “wrong place, wrong time” is what got me started getting better.

  • TundraGrifter

    I have a general question. When did Harvey Weinstein ever have time to make a fucking movie?

    • Kooolest G

      harvey weinstein didn’t “make” movies. he hired directors to make them and did deals with producers and distributors to sell them. he doesn’t have a creative bone in his body, all he has is power and connections, which he chose to flaunt by forcing his underlings to have sex with him

    • JMP

      You can’t just expect people to click on the link you’re spamming, you need to try and sell it. Where’s the talk of your roommate’s aunt who just brought a new land rover range rover with the money she made fast from home? Or of how the real wizard was able to get your cheating husband to come back to you with his spells? This is weak spam here, weak I tell you!

      • Suse

        And where in the hell is Lori???

        • JMP

          At least I found something from the spambot’s history, since they made one with an actual body of text instead of just a single sentence and the link – and it was all in some language I didn’t recognize. But google tells me it’s Indonesian, and this is the translation it gave me:

          “We bring a fairly interesting information in our opinion, this info relates to what is needed by adolescent men and those already married. the info is as follows. Store penis enlarger tool in the form of vacuum and muscle pull tool.
          In addition We also provide a penis enlargement drug that gives priority to health, therefore we bring this a herb Enlarge penis made from natural herbal ingredients.”

          • Shanzgood

            GREAT article for penis enhancement ads.

          • SkinlessGenderlessMan

            ALL the fucking upfists, lass!!!

          • SnowBomber

            Your username + this comment = the silly laugh I needed this morning.

          • SkinlessGenderlessMan

            Thanks! Laughs is good!!

          • GHERKINS OF RESTIVENESS!

            GOOD MORNING EVERYBONERY!

          • I apologize if my link is a problem, I do not mean to look for mighty or trouble, Again please forgive

          • Theodore Rigley

            I’ll take it!!

          • PincheMacha

            I can’t be the only one who remembers the Wonkette/penis pump partnership, right? Sill scratching my head about why that didn’t make Editrix a cool million

  • Paperless Tiger

    The whole ‘don’t be inviting’ argument sounds suspiciously like the ‘don’t feed the bears’ sign in the park. What are we, wild animals? There’s no excuse for sexual predators, period.

    • redarmyzombie

      “What are we, wild animals?”

      Jury’s still out on that one…

  • de_Pizan

    Stop Street Harassment rounded up sexual harassment statistics from 37 countries. If dressing modestly had anything to do with harassment whatsoever, then perhaps countries like Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Yemen, etc., where there is an expectation of modest dress, would have significantly lower rates of harassment than countries that don’t have said dress requirements. That isn’t the case at all. http://www.stopstreetharassment.org/resources/statistics/statistics-academic-studies/

    • Rags

      Evidence? Evidence? You’re bringing evidence to a pie fight???

      • de_Pizan

        I should know better.

      • SkinlessGenderlessMan

        Mmmmm….. Custard!

    • JMP

      It’s almost like having severely patriarchal misogynist culture – of the type that blames victims for doing things like dressing ‘immodestly’, or enjoying a normal drink – is actually correlated to higher levels of sexual assault.

  • Suse

    I was very nearly raped at 16 by a classmate at a dance. I went out to his car with him. I grant you it was not the smartest decision I ever made, but I was very naive about sex and boys. His friend happened to be walking by the car and heard me screaming. He saved me!

    • Anna Elizabeth

      ~hugs~

    • SkinlessGenderlessMan

      ….and hopefully provided an education in “why not to be a fucking rapist”.

    • gingerwentworth1

      That friend! I’d have followed him like a hopeless moran forever after.

  • Iam Reading

    Parents need to teach their boys not to sexually harass or rape women. This is the piece that seems to be missing

  • TootsStansbury

    Fuck this noise.

  • GHERKINS OF RESTIVENESS!

    If it’s such common knowledge that immodest dress causes sexual assault, why has this conversation never happened in the history of ever?

    “Sorry boss, can’t come to work. I saw a woman’s bare legs earlier, and I’m afraid my pecker might goad me into, you know, doing something awful.”

    “Oh, so, you’re having your ‘manly troubles’ again? What the fuck, Thompson? This is getting out of hand.”

    “I know!”

    “What was that woman thinking?! I’m trying to run a business here!”

  • GHERKINS OF RESTIVENESS!

    If our soldiers just stopped wearing uniforms, we’d probably get in a lot fewer wars!

  • Riley Whodat Venable

    Rep. Johnson looks old enough to remember Whites only schools, water fountains, and Home Owners Assoc. as well. Does she remember when being Black on a sunny day was enough to get someone assaulted?

    • redarmyzombie

      Unfortunately, Black on a sunny day *still* gets people assaulted…

  • Ducksworthy

    DHS has determined that locking up pregnant teenagers prevents abortions, Just be sure to keep them locked up until they deliver.

  • SkinlessGenderlessMan

    Robyn, I love yer words.

  • This is the part where I explain about the “old school”
    My mother was born in ’41. Pretty old school. She was molested at age 12 by a neighbor, and she was blamed for it. By her parents, by everyone. She was punished for it by a lashing.
    After that when the neighbor molested her, she did not tell her parents. She did not tell me it was rape, but just from what she did not say, I am guessing that was involved at some point.
    When she was 15 she got a job at the local deli where the owner was constantly grabby handing her. Her parents told her to let him, so they could get free cheese.
    When she was 18 she jointed a convent and confessed these “sins” from her youth, as well as admission that she thought of sex often. They kicked her out. When they kicked her out, she went back home, and her father refused to speak with her for a year.
    After that, she got a job where her boss AND two co workers routinely harassed her, touched her, and though she never said, I suspect rape did happen. She “let” it happen at that point. It was all she was “worth.”
    When a man proposed to her she took him up on it because why the fuck not? He was well off, he gave her things, he also picked out her wardrobe and taught her how to smile and put her make up on so she did not embarrass him. He hit her several times, and used her whenever he wanted to. She “let him.”
    She only dumped him because he did not want children and she did, desperately, because in her mind children would make her worth something. She thought dating my dad would make him jealous enough to wake up and take her back, but surprise, 3 months later dad proposed and gave her an ultimatum: Marry me, or I don’t see any reason to date anymore. Dad was looking for a family, and fell in love at first sight, and did not like how she was always trying to get dude A involved, so he acted a total dick.
    Like everything else in her life, Mom “let” him because she was not worth anything in her own mind.
    She lucked out. Aside from the occasional total dick my way or the highwayism, dad was a gentle bear and treated her very well, usually giving in to her whenever she wanted him to, and shielding her from her fucking nutbar parents with his big bodied blue collar ways. It took her 20 years to realize she was worth SOMETHING. 20 years of having a supportive partner, of being safe, of not being abused. 20. Years. 20 years where she refused to see a psychiatrist because she didn’t want to bother anyone and anyway, she should have “done something to prevent it.”

    You know, at age 12 or 15 or….She told me all this in her later years, and did not once blame anyone for any of it but herself.

    Oh, she dressed modestly her entire fucking life.

    So. Fuck you, old school. May you be buried in the ash bin of history never to return.

    • Delu

      Old school was never really nice to women.

      History is the evidence.

    • starfanglednut

      I’m sorry that happened to your mom. While not as extreme, my life has had a similar trajectory, and I was born in 63. We get set up for repeated abuse when it’s tolerated (or perpetrated) by our parents.

      • Shanzgood

        Mine wasn’t. They didn’t even know. But I knew the rules, even at the age of 4: you don’t tell anyone.

        • YayConspiracy

          That sounds truly awful. All of these stories. Good old days, infuckingdeed.

    • Valkyrie

      Thanks for sharing that story. Your mom must have a deep well of strength, and some good karma, to have emerged from that awful cycle and to have and had you for a child.

    • shocker

      I’m so sorry for your mom. As John Kelly said yesterday, back when women were “sacred.” Right.

    • SnowBomber

      Your mom sounds like an incredible, strong woman to have survived all of that. I’m glad she has your dad. I’m not sure that there is such a thing or that it’s possible, but I hope I can send her some healing light and love from here.

  • AnnieRealClear

    I don’t think Mayim Bialik was saying that. Rape is a violent act and is not about sex. Patriarchy rules blame victims, we are not going back there.

    • I think she was saying exactly that, myself, seeing as she said she was not harassed because she dressed modestly, and when she got backlash for it, fell back on a lovely not apology where she was “hurt” and how she guesses feminism isn’t ready for conservative women.

      • AnnieRealClear

        She came back and was interviewed said she didn’t intend that. There are roles she didn’t take.

        • I understand what you are saying, but the old “I didn’t intend” is, to me, akin to “I was only joking”
          Anyone can be SMRT in hind sight.
          I still like her, FWIW, we all of us say a dumb from time to time (at least, I hope that is not just me!) but I still think she very much meant just that, as did the congress critter up there.

        • Manders

          Those are two separate issues though. “I went my own way and paid the price for it for many years, but I also became my own woman” is a different article from “I have made it many years in Hollywood without being assaulted or harassed.”

          The second thing? Is luck. It’s just luck. And probably parental supervision when she was younger.

      • cleos_mom

        But look at her age. If she’d been raped by a white man when she was, say 15 (circa 1950), what are the chances he’d be blamed?

  • Walter Wellstone

    Oh, so that’s why they wear burkas. I’m glad someone clarified that for me.

    • PincheMacha

      Please consider the possibility that women who wear burkhas are individuals … and might have individual reasons for doing so

      It’s just creepy to hear tens of thousands of humans grouped together as “THEM”

      • Walter Wellstone

        It’s called snark, sweetie. Referencing a simplistic view of a complex subject, like saying “Oh, so that’s why they wear burkas …” while knowing the multi-faceted nature of the context behind the issue is a staple of what we do here at Wonkette.

        • PincheMacha

          dude, my wonkette history goes back so long I remember the Comics Curmudgeon… Sometimes snark fails; yours did IMO. But hey, bless your heart for the unnecessary bitchiness.

  • pgjack

    It is not sexual harassment for men too look at women who dress to attract attention. Going beyond that, however, is sexual harassment. Uninvited touching, crude remarks, stalking, photographing of strangers, etc, are forms of sexual harassment. A woman or a man can dress anyway way they want within legal bounds but should expect to be looked at if they where clown costumes, lizard costumes or go as close as the law allows to naked in inappropriate places. But none of those costumes is an invitation to be harassed. This is not Saudi Arabia and burkas are not mandatory.

  • Delu

    It’s like how hoodies cause vigilante murderers to kill you so it’s your GODDAMNED JOB to dress properly, SAFELY so that you don’t die out there to some George Zimmerman style guy or something.

  • Marla

    Guess I throw out all my clothes and wear only pic-nic table clothes as clothes because if that doesn’t prevent rape, I don’t know what will.

    • CovfefeOfTheThoughtlessMind

      Clothes don’t make the rape victim, nor the rapist.

    • Bebecca

      No I think you just stay in your house and all will be fine. Wait, are picnic clothes shorts and a halter top?

    • SnowBomber

      Will picnic tablecloths make spontaneous lunches happen? If so, I heartily approve of this outfit.

  • William
  • blaid droog

    I thought that the whole idea behind muslim women being dressed in heavy burlap sacks was to keep them from tempting weak willed men. Yet muslim men abuse women in extremely violent ways. It seems to me that attire is irrelevant when it comes to male abuse of women. Some, maybe even most, men are hard wired to believe that they are superior to women and all women automatically owe them obeisance. Since I am a fag, I find it easy to suggest to women in general, when a man does shit that is unwelcome, just kick them in the nuts. Drive your disapproval home in a fashion that leaves no room for doubt.

    • Alternative Dog

      A short while ago I listened in horror to this local public radio segment in which a woman recounts a state legislator following her into a bathroom, whipping out his dick, and masturbating while trying to convince her to touch his genitals.

      I’m sure it is impossible to think clearly in such a situation, but I couldn’t help wishing that she had approached him as though she was going to comply only to kick him ferociously in the nuts.

      • PJ

        I think it’s out of a deeply ingrained sense of self-preservation that a woman won’t always kick a guy in the nuts; if he blocks it, or if it doesn’t completely incapacitate him, it will only escalate the situation. We could very well end up severely beaten or dead. Kicking may seem like a definitive solution, but some guys get even *more* aroused when they can provoke someone into getting violent and angry.

        • Alternative Dog

          That is an excellent point.

    • cleos_mom

      You could make a good case for attire being very relevant when it comes to potential for blaming the victim — with a possible result of the rape not being reported and the rapist moving on to his next slut-shamed victim.

      Who can, of course, “be happy because she earned it.”

  • Carole
  • dshwa

    Amen

  • Sunhead

    Nobody wants to live in a world where shit like rape happens to random people. No-one wants to admit that it is mostly a crime of random opportunity. So people try and reason ‘How can I make this not happen to me.’ because it’s too fucking terrifying so it sounds like victim blaming. I think that is where Bialik was coming from.
    That said there are victim blaming oxygen thieves out there. What they deserve Doc would banhammer us for, but, nice rapey penis you have there, shame if something should happen to it in that industrial sausage machine.
    Said again and again… no amount of long sleeves, snoods, headscarves, long dresses or collars is going to stop a rapist. People have been raped wearing everything and nothing, nuns to bikini models. Rapists cause rape to happen. Abusers cause sexual abuse to happen. Some people simply feel that they are entitled to do what they want to someone else and anyone will do. Rapists are serial offenders, they keep doing it.
    The entire attitude of the MGTOW crowd that they deserve sex is well and truly on the slippy slope to rapist.

    • James

      That said there are victim blaming oxygen thieves out there. What they
      deserve Doc would banhammer us for, but, nice rapey penis you have
      there, shame if something should happen to it in that industrial sausage
      machine.

      That caused me to involuntarily shrink back in my seat, even though I would never do anything to deserve being Lorena Bobbitised. Ew.

      • Moar Wordz

        I know some one in the recent thread who does though

  • WomanInThePersistence

    I cannot applaud this enough. Thanks, Robyn.

  • rick

    Earlier this week, Mayim Bialik caused thousands of women across the country to burn their be-flowered hats in disgust when she penned an article for the New York Times suggesting that the reason why — unlike the victims of Harvey Weinstein
    — she had never been sexually harassed or assaulted in Hollywood was
    because she dressed “modestly.”

    Oh…I thought it was because of her unibrow, light moustache about her lip, and thick glasses. My bad.

    • PincheMacha

      Ugh Rick. Ugh.

    • WomanInThePersistence

      Yeah. Because making an attempt at shaming a person for their appearance is so cutting edge.

      • kfreed

        He happens to be right.

    • kfreed

      That was my very thought as well. I am woman and this wench knows better than to go on an apology tour for perverts. She can also consider herself lucky that it has never happened to her personally. I know of very few women who have not had such experiences… even lowly wenches such as ourselves far from Hollywood.

    • Frank Underboob

      Seriously? Don’t be such an arsehole.

      • kfreed

        His comment is warranted. The very women who aid and abet sexual harassment and assault are generally the ones who like to pretend that other women are simply sluts for getting assaulted. If she can dish it, she can take it.

    • amrak63
    • CovfefeOfTheThoughtlessMind

      Let’s not forget her spectacular honker, too, but no, rapists are far less fixated on appearance than is understood in popular culture, because for the rapist, it is about power, with sex being the avenue of its expression. I think Mayim is just lucky.

      • amrak63

        Rape is sex about like ax murder is lumberjacking.

        The fact that two acts use the same “tool” does not make them identical acts.

        • PJ

          Many years ago (like ’93/94ish) I read in a magazine (wish I could find/remember the source!)–
          “Sex is to rape what cooking is to getting hit in the head with a frying pan.”
          (Possibly paraphrased a bit, but brilliant analogy, IMO!)

      • rick

        I agree. Good post.

    • SnowBomber

      You jest, but another one of the reasons she says she was left alone was her face. She almost literally said she was relieved she wasn’t beautiful enough to be harassed or molested.

  • Zyxomma

    Well said, Robyn. This is #MeToo week. For years, I kept my sexy, beautiful vintage wardrobe home, and when outside wore either boring business attire OR khakis, combat boots, hair in a severe braid, and no makeup. I heard CONSTANT comments about my ass, breasts, etc. while dressed thus, and got come-ons (and worse) in the office.

    I got sick of it, and started wearing my femme clothes outside. I got far less harassment once I reclaimed my feminine power. It was amazing.

  • The Librarian

    I mentioned here one time that I was a cashier in a shitty chain shoe store during college and one of the asst managers felt up my legs behind the counter. I yelled at him loud enough for the whole store to hear to stop touching me. He got all flustered and gave me shit for outing his creepy behavior, but I stood my ground. The other women who worked as salespeople told me stories about other bad behavior and asked me to go to the higher management to lodge complaints against him, which I did. They were afraid of getting canned and I could have cared less. Fucker got transferred to an all male store in a town near the Mexico border. #MeToo.

  • kfreed

    “Does ‘Dressing Modestly’ Keep Sexual Predators Away?”

    Um, no. No it does not. True story:

    Imagine a 17-year-old girl who lives with her family in military housing walking home from the library one snowy school evening right around dusk… it’s still very bright out because of thesnow and there are people in cars driving by on their way home from work. She’scovered from head to toe in bulky winter clothing, smiling to herself about the stupid conversation with her friend Charles just a few moments ago. She’s in
    Germany, the place she knows as home, in a very small German town in the
    vicinity of Frankfurt. Stepdad is in the Army. The library is on base. She
    feels entirely safe on this perfectly fine, peaceful, lovely winter evening. Except…

    Walking behind her is a man, a G.I.who taps her on the shoulder to ask the time of day. She checks her watch, it’s almost 6:00 in the evening. Thinking nothing of it, she answers him politely and picks up the pace. He might have been one of her father’s men for all she knew. Nothing weird about a G.I on a military base.

    She’s late for dinner. She crosses the bridge, and once out of view of passing traffic, this unassuming young man rushes up behind her, tightens a leather strap around her neck, claims to have a knife, and then begins to steer her toward the darkness under the bridge. “Turn around, don’t fight,” he says. What do we suppose he had in mind?

    Long story short… I had my fingers under the strap around my neck. At first I started laughing thinking it was Charles from the library trying to prank me. Once I realized that it wasn’t Charles, I was not frightened, I was PISSED. All I could think was… How DARE YOU???!!! I was determined NOT to allow this man to drag me under that
    bridge.

    I yanked the strap away and beat the snot out of my would-be rapist with his own leather choker and then ran back to the top of the bridge. Passing drivers began to notice me beating this jackass while screaming at him to get away from me. Several cars began to slow down… at which point he took off… yelling “Bitch!” at me as he fled.

    So yeah, that day I happened to be looking more like the Michelin man in many layers of unattractive clothing – topped off with an ugly, bulky coat – than a sexy young thang out for a romp under the bridge (snark alert).

    I’m not an Amazon warrior princess, ladies. I’m 5 feet tall and weighed 105 lbs. In those days I was about as shy as they come. And I was lucky.

    It is good to be aware of one’s surroundings and to take sensible precautions. BUT… anyone who would like to pretend that one’s clothing is some sort of magic talisman against rape is quite the dumbass and ought to be fucking ashamed. Rapists are opportunistic criminals out hunting easy prey. The man misjudged me. I am neither easy nor prey, but I suppose I looked like it. That is all.

    We don’t blame murder victims for getting themselves murdered. How is it acceptable to blame rape victims for a violent crime committed against them? And why, as a woman, would you even think about doing it?

    For the record, I am now in my fifties and have seen and experienced some heinous shit. Ignorant wench apparently needs to get out more.

    Younglings, don’t you believe it for a second: there is no such thing as rape-wear.

    Just ask the women running around in burkas. Are they safe? Nope. They exist in a culture that condones sexual violence against them. Getting raped can get them stoned to death. We might take a lesson from that and the fact that the nutbags here in the US elected Herr Gropenfuhrer and his merry band of Christo-fascists.

    Our job is to stand up for what is right, cowards. If you can’t manage that, then at least have the decency to keep your mouth shut.

    That’s all I’ve got to say about this here idiocy.

    *Now would be your chance, Dok, to complain about the length of this comment. Or you could copy it and forward it to the lady with the shitty advice. On the other hand, I may be on mute at this point and simply just talking to myself :)

  • Mark

    Seems like every time I hear about Mayim Bialik, she’s saying something stupid.

  • Ed Blosch

    By saying she dresses modestly as a strategy, she is talking about accommodating reality, like good scientists and normal, mature adults do. She was talking about judgement. You don’t walk alone in a bad neighborhood, you don’t get too drunk at a frat party and flirt while wearing a halter top, you don’t take a ride home with a nice older guy you just met but don’t know. You don’t wear the opposing team’s jersey and cheer too obnoxiously while sitting in the home team’s student section. If you are in these situations and get assaulted, that’s sad. But you can be happy, because you earned it! By stubbornly sticking to your ideal of the way things should be, you put yourself in harm’s way. Mayim does seem outraged about our hyper-sexualized American culture and the industries that profit from it, in the article. But she says she chooses to dress modestly as a strategy to avoid risk. Apparently Hollywood is real cesspool. It’s not a cop out, it’s a mature attitude. Good thinking, Mayim!

    • amrak63
      • cleos_mom

        But we all knew at least one would crawl out of the woodwork.

    • amrak63

      For those who did not get the message when William posted this earlier in this thread:

      https://i.imgur.com/149C3Tu.png

    • CovfefeOfTheThoughtlessMind

      You used a ton of words to demonstrate that you missed Robyn’s point. By a mile.

    • Gussie Jives

      Might want to re-read what Robyn wrote about “talismans”, Rape Myth McGee.

    • Sunhead

      What the everloving fuck dude.

      You don’t wear the opposing team’s jersey and cheer too obnoxiously while sitting in the home team’s student section.

      might mean you get a beer poured over your head, not rape. Throwing a beer at someone is an impulsive thing to do, raping someone, that takes determination and purpose.
      Contrary to Taliban teaching, American and other, you can absolutely teach a dog to not eat raw steak on a plate, but you are accepting that men can’t be trained to not rape.
      The men you know must be charming. Keep them away from civil society please.

    • Persistent Tennessee Rain

      Go change your shorts. You’ve obviously shit the ones you are wearing

      • Moar Wordz

        Who said he was wearing shorts ?! Straitjacket & a extra large diaper

        • Persistent Tennessee Rain

          Good point

    • Molon Labe

      I think the issue of rape is a lot more complicated than how-you-dress. As outlined in the article there is a full spectrum of circumstances in which rapes happen. Obviously, modest attire wouldn’t deter attacks in all those circumstances. However, does than mean modest attire could’t have virtue somewhere in the rape discussion?

      When the local U workshops sexual assault with the freshmen its discussed in the terms reflected in the article, “rapist are responsible for rape”. They won’t tell young girls to use the buddy-system when going to frat parties or to not accept drinks from people they don’t know. Because (they say) thats placing responsibility (blame) on the victim.

      This is where the split in the discussion comes. On one side, its all the rapist fault. On the other side, there are things you can do to protect yourself. Personally, I think they are both correct. Rape is never justified, no question. However, at some level there is personally responsibility for your own decisions. If a young lady goes to a frat party alone and accepts drinks from people she doesn’t know and ends up getting drugged and raped, it is NOT her fault. However, it is her fault for being in that situation and making those decisions. Had she been aware of the dangers of the situation and taken measures to protect herself, maybe she wouldn’t have been raped?

      Neither side of this discussion really seems to do it justice. Rape is always the rapists fault, that is 100% correct. But that side of the discussion never wants to acknowledge that sometimes personal responsibility can keep you from a bad situation. Just as there is no single thing you can to on a preventative level to protect yourself from rape in all circumstances.

      • capnkrunch

        If a young lady goes to a frat party alone and accepts drinks from
        people she doesn’t know and ends up getting drugged and raped, it is NOT
        her fault. However, it is her fault for being in that situation and
        making those decisions.

        “It’s not her fault. Except actually it kind of is.”

        Fuck off.
        -capn

        • Molon Labe

          Except thats not what I said or meant.

          If you wish to believe you can put yourself blindly into any circumstance and nothing bad will ever happen, then knock yourself out.

        • Molon Labe

          How about you explain to me how rape is different from the rest of reality? Everyday, you do things to protect yourself and your belongings. Yet, you are upset by the suggestion that someone would be wise to protect themselves from rape.

          Do you lock your doors at night? Why? Its not your fault if someone decides to burglarize your house, right? And as I said, it is NOT your fault, I agree. But I bet you still lock your doors. Is having a lock on your door tantamount to victim blaming? Of course not.

          Will dressing modestly prevent you from getting raped? I highly doubt it. But that doesn’t mean in certain situations that you shouldn’t be prudent and act wisely.

          I’ll put the blame squarely on the perpetrator of the crime, 100%. But if there is anything anyone can actually do to prevent themselves from being victimized, then I’ll advocate them doing it.

          • capnkrunch

            That’s not what I’m upset about. It’s probably fine advice to not accept drinks from strangers or do to frat parties alone. But you suggested that if someone chooses to ignore that advice they are at least partially responsible.

            And as I said, it is NOT your fault, I agree. But I bet you still lock your doors. Is having a lock on your door tantamount to victim blaming? Of course not.

            That’s not what you said though. Having a lock on your door isn’t victim blaming. Telling someone it is a good idea to have a lock is not victim blaming but you’re getting closer. Telling someone who got robbed they wouldn’t have gotten robbed if they had a lock is victim blaming.

            However, it is her fault for being in that situation and making those decisions. Had she been aware of the dangers of the situation and taken measures to protect herself, maybe she wouldn’t have been raped?

            THAT’S FUCKING VICTIM BLAMING DUDE! “Maybe she wouldn’t have been raped” should only ever be followed by “if that guy wasn’t a rapist”.

            Will dressing modestly prevent you from getting raped? I highly doubt it. But that doesn’t mean in certain situations that you shouldn’t be prudent and act wisely.

            See, this is where the slippery slope starts. You shouldn’t have gone to the party alone. You shouldn’t have drank that much. You shouldn’t have been wearing those clothes. You shouldn’t have looked at that guy in that way. You shouldn’t have broken up with him. You shouldn’t have turned him down. Etc. Etc.

          • Molon Labe

            “Telling someone who got robbed they wouldn’t have gotten robbed if they had a lock is victim blaming.”

            and I am not doing that. I am arguing that locking your door, might keep burglars out of your house. Again you do things every day to keep yourself safe in one way or another. Its no different.

            I think the point where things get confusing here if the person making the point about prevention is speaking to a victim or not and even then there could be some context to consider.

            The government currently has a travel warning to Sudan. I think we can both agree that isn’t victim blaming? If someone went to the Sudan and got killed, and someone was then to say “well they shouldn’t have gone to Sudan” that is blaming the victim.

            Advising someone on how to stay safe shouldn’t be labeled victim blaming. The issue of rape seems to be the only place preventative measure get misconstrued as victim blaming. Thats what worries me. Telling girls to not blame themselves if or when they get raped is great. I agree. However, not telling them how to protect themselves in the first place is tragic.

          • Molon Labe

            I’ve said enough about this but I want to add one last comment.

            I don’t want to see anyone get raped. If someone does get raped, its 100% not their fault. However, that doesn’t change the fact that they still got raped and it never will.

            Everything decision we make in life results in an outcome. Thats not to say you are to blame for everything that happens to you. The are other people out there creating outcomes that will affect you also and some of those people are evil. However, our decisions and actions have real impact on our lives. Please choose wisely.

          • capnkrunch

            However, it is her fault for being in that situation and making those decisions.
            it is her fault for being in that situation and making those decisions.
            it is her fault for being in that situation
            it is her fault
            her fault

            ***plonk***

    • JMP

      Go fuck yourself.

      • Moar Wordz

        X’s INFINITY

    • LeCafeAuLait

      I lived in a bad neighborhood and had a job, so…kind of had to walk around alone. Seriously, WTF do you think the people who live there are supposed to do?
      And, FWIW, I’ve been harassed and assaulted while dressed modestly, so, that’s not always going to work. I can 100% promise you that assault still happens even if we follow all the rules about protecting ourselves.

    • Jennaratrix

      Err, no. You have so completely missed the point that I feel compelled to spell it out for you:

      The only person at fault in any way shape or form when someone is raped is the RAPIST. That’s it. No caveats, no buts, no what-ifs. It doesn’t matter what the VICTIM wore, said, did, or drank. The person who did the raping is the one who is solely at fault. Read this over and over and over again until it gets through your thick skull that the ONLY reason a person is raped is because a rapist wanted to do it, and did.

      • Ed Blosch

        I agree with you 100%. Rape is so extreme. Total loss of self control, total psychopathy. But the subject du jour is sexual assault, not rape. Rape is a small fraction, and it’s the most extreme. Did you see that story where some dude grabbed Taylor Swift’s butt? That’s part of the conversation too, isn’t it?

        Ms. Bialik’s comments were about exercising good judgment. She got criticized by the Wonkette because she (W) apparently believes women should be fighting for the right to wear whatever they want, wherever and whenever, including nothing at all.

        I think that cause is extreme, ridiculous, and actually unhelpful. The focus should be on establishing an essential, universal, human right to personal safety at all times in all situations. In talking about safety instead of clothes, Ms. Bialik was closer to the right conversation.

    • Moar Wordz

      “But you can be happy, because you earned it ! ”
      What a PATHETIC statement
      CLAPTRAP
      BULLSHIT

  • CovfefeOfTheThoughtlessMind

    Once again, Robyn, you have smitten ye nail upon ye head.

  • Lily412

    “’I grew up in a time when it was as much
    the woman’s responsibility as it was a man’s — how you were dressed,
    what your behavior was,’ she said.”

    Just because that’s how you grew up doesn’t mean it was right. I can’t believe people don’t realize that fact.
    ETA: ok, Robyn already mentioned my “hot take” in the article. Guess I should have kept reading!

  • cleos_mom

    According to Google this woman was born in 1935.

    When she was young, people of color didn’t hold elected office. She needs to learn her place and resign.

    • lurch394

      It’s not her age that is the problem. It’s Rep. Johnson’s thinking.

      • cleos_mom

        ….

  • Lily412

    I was wearing dirty scrubs that smelled like dog shit when one of my coworkers at the shelter came up behind me when we were alone and LICKED THE BACK OF MY NECK. Pretty sure that my outfit wasn’t the cause.

    • Opiwan

      I hope you had some of the aforementioned dog shit available to SHOVE IN HIS DISGUSTING FACE

      I really hate other “beings” of my gender sometimes…

  • nightmoth

    Thx for the link to the Mayim Bialik article. Everyone’s zeroing in over the “dressing modestly” bit, and rightfully so, but I was impressed by this:
    “I always made conservative choices as a young actress, largely informed by my first-generation American parents who were highly skeptical of this industry in general — “This business will use you up and throw you away like a snotty tissue!”— and of its men in particular: “They only want one thing.” My mom didn’t let me wear makeup or get manicures. She encouraged me to be myself in audition rooms, and I followed my mother’s strong example to not put up with anyone calling me “baby” or demanding hugs on set.”
    I think she was fortunate to have parents who gave her a sense of worth that was not based on an American patriarchal ideal of beauty. Many young women who want to be performers are not so fortunate, and that only fuels our rape culture. I would like to see all “Tots and Tiaras” beauty contests outlawed.

  • Trump’s Potemkin Village

    “It’s always a woman’s fault if men can’t control their own penises.”

    How is this patriarchal message not an insult to both women AND (decent) men?

  • quantum mechanic

    I guess this explains why every beach is an uncontrollable rapefest.

  • capnkrunch

    Fun fact: Mayim Bialik is also an antivaxxer. Color me unsurprised that she is terrible in other ways as well.

  • Moar Wordz

    Blossom can kiss my ASS
    What a harassment-apologist ostrich
    Seriously, she is un-subtly defending Dear Old Uncle Harvey
    Weinstein, who she possibly has warm fuzzies or tingles for –
    What a lovable old lug ! Seriously, isn’t Harvey a scream ?

  • Trump’s Potemkin Village

    Slightly OT, but just in case you were wondering about the FLDS dress code:

    “Carl Holm left the FLDS faith 27 years ago. Together with his wife, Joni,
    they raised three young people who escaped FLDS polygamy. The couple
    cannot visit Carl’s family. Joni said, “They were told and counseled by
    Warren (Jeffs) not to associate with any of us.”

    According to Carl, Jeffs “told [the foster children], ‘Every bit of your body is to be covered.'”

    The different pastel-colored dresses identify wives of the same husband.
    The long sleeves and skirts cover white religious garments. “Actually
    long-sleeved, it goes all the way down to their ankles, so they’re to
    cover their garment,” Carl said.

    They are forbidden to wear red or black. “Jesus is to wear that. He’ll
    come, he’ll return in a red-colored robe, so that’s off limits. And
    black, and the dark is also off limits because that is the sign of
    Satan,” Joni explained.

    The women’s hair swept up over their foreheads relates to their
    spirituality. “It looks like a goose thing on top of their heads, the
    higher they can get that, the more righteous they are, so that’s a
    trademark for them. They really are proud of that,” Joni said.

    https://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=3092303

  • toughsister

    More than enough idiocy (much by some women) has been written about sexual harassment/rape. Dress “modestly” (hello, burka!), lower your gaze, don’t let anyone know you have a vagina, etc., etc. I wonder when women will start carrying tasers and aim straight at a sexual harasser’s crotch. Perhaps that would have cooled Harvey Weinstein’s amorous élan…

    • empf

      I wonder what the old women who are attacked in their homes might think of this. Maybe I shouldn’t have been wearing that alluring flannel nightgown. This is some seriously screwed up thinking.

  • Michael Loraine

    Men are pigs. Should women carry guns?

    There will NEVER be a society- or culture-wide discussion of this.Intoxicated or priveleged males do not consider “what is right?”, but “what can I get away with?”.

    I agree rhat women are not to blame for assaults due to their appearance, apparel, or demeanor. But how do you stop a determined attacker? Not by talking him out of it.

    I don’t think guns are the answer, because innocent people (like our kids, grand-kids, spouses, friends or ourselves) typically end up injured or killed by our self-protection. But we need a better plan than “sensitivity training” or a fatherly talk.

  • Hazel Blumberg

    For women to blame other women for sexual harassment and rape is the lowest of the low.

    • Bill Diaz

      No, that is wrong. Those are the worst victims, women who have been beaten down so bad they hate themselves. It happens, when everything and everyone around you tells you you are worthless, where everything about you is discounted because of an accident of birth.

      The lowest of the low are the men in their lives that transmit this destructive message and warp the souls of the people they proclaim they ‘love’ and ‘hold sacred’. The ones most in need of sympathy and help are the women so badly damaged that they parrot that same message.

      Have a great day!

  • Greg Stueve

    Great piece of writing, Robyn. You do amazing work.

  • Moar Wordz

    A virus was sent to my phone yesterday after I posted on this site. Ironically, the sender took the trouble to describe what he was wearing. Reported & blocked

  • Elaine Hardman

    All of this has made me focus on formal and business attire. Men’s formal attire is a tux with which only the face and hands are exposed. Women’s formal attire means bare legs, bare arms, bare shoulders, maybe bare midriff and maybe bare more. Is there a conversation in this that when men “dress” they are dressed and when women “dress” they are so much less dressed? This is not to say that any particular dress invites any behavior. It is just the question. Why are women so much more exposed than men? Also, our TV talking heads if female feature bare arms and legs while the men wear suits. Why are women exposing so much more skin? What is the history of formal wear and why has formal wear and business attire for men changed so little over years? Is it the same in other countries? How do women dress in board rooms? Is it the same as on tv news shows?

    • Donna Schoenkopf

      You have taken the words right out of my mouth.

    • Nancy Reese Barrett

      Your point is…?

      • Elaine Hardman

        I’m never in boardrooms, on TV or at formal events. I’m asking when and maybe why or how the divergence of what as seen as standard dress evolved. I’m asking about the differences in dress. Is clothing designed to make women more vulnerable? There are areas of the world where everyone dresses the same way (sarongs and T-shirts in parts of SE Asia and jeans and tshirts at times in the US) and other areas of the world where clothes have more distinct lines. Why? Does it change anything? Are women on Wall Street in short skirts and sleeveless dresses while men are in suits?

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