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Wonkette mostly tries to stay out of intra-left squabbles. Our mama says we are not allowed to fight with other lefties, even though we are perfect and they are shitbags. She does not want to hear it when we whine that they are MEAN and they are SMEARING DEMOCRATS, and when Bernie Sanders says Democrats are the problem, our mama will blithely say things like “well maybe Democrats ARE the problem!” And when Jill Stein blames Democrats for Betsy DeVos, and we scream at Stein that EVERY DEMOCRAT VOTED AGAINST BETSY DEVOS WHAT IS EVEN YOUR DAMAGE, our mama gets mad at US. Our mama, who has wrangled county Democratic parties in two states. Our mama, who has put in the fuckin’ HOURS on the phone trees and the letter campaigns and the St. Patrick’s Day Commiethon and every Saturday for YEARS standing at the corner of Beard and Farrell in Shawnee, OK, holding up her Yellow Dog Democrat (or Bernie) sign. Our mama, the Union Maid.

So we mostly listen to her, because there is hell to pay when we don’t.

Therefore, we would like to state for the record that is both peachy and swell that some members of the Left are currently going after Kamala Harris, who along with Kirsten Gillibrand has been the most steadfast vote for #Resistance in the Senate, for being a centrist corporatist might-as-well-be-Republican, because she is definitely the same as Republicans, except for everything she has ever stood for and/or said with her mouth.

See, it is 2017, so now is the perfect time to libel anyone on the left who isn’t actively involved in Being Bernie Sanders, because it is important to start smearing progressive Democrats as corrupt early, so it can catch on. For bonus points, accuse her of not supporting things she supports.

It worked really well last time, and nothing bad can come of it.

That is not fair, you are saying, because you are fair. We are allowed to question and criticize our leaders. Of course we are! And we should definitely do so in the most vicious manner possible, imputing all sorts of greed and sleaze, notwithstanding pushback from women and people of color and most definitely women of color who feel like MAYBE they can see right the fuck through you. Why you gotta call us racist? you are asking now. I KNOW THIS ONE! Because nobody’s putting out memes about Corrupt Ol’ Joe Biden, who just like Kamala Harris is also talking to donors, and that dude, whom we love because NOBODY IS PERFECT ON EVERY ISSUE and he’s mostly a genuinely swell guy, used to be the Senator From MBNA.

I know we’re not all braiding each other’s hair by the campfire, and we definitely shouldn’t. First we should ax Nancy Pelosi, because we’ve all seen that being able to whip votes is totally unimportant in a leader, and she is not “new blood” and also she is to blame for losing the House when all the statehouses gerrymandered their shit to hell and back. Those who criticize her and/or want to replace her all run to her right — no really, look it up! Tim Ryan of Ohio, whose name always comes up as the anointed Pelosi replacement, is ranked as the 122th most progressive member of the House. Kathleen Rice of New York, who went after her during the most recent wave of Pelosi-bashing, is ranked 166th. Pelosi? Just sitting there being a corporate sell-out at #26. But since when do purity tests matter?

Next, we should tear down every potent politician we have who is resisting Trump out loud, because something about the DNC and coronations. That they would have to actually win the most votes from Democratic voters is irrelevant. After that, if Tulsi Gabbard, D-In The Ways That Matter i.e. Endorsed Bernie Sanders, is not our nominee, we should all scream a bunch about rigged votes and WikiLeaks and Seth Rich and not just take our shit and go home, but actively downplay (or even support!) the Trump nightmare because he is a populist LOL.

So great job everyone! Keep on keepin’ on! Double down on that hostage-taking. Don’t try to persuade anyone to your point of view: Just smear and libel, smear and libel, the people who agree with you on 95 percent of the things as Fake Leftists — have you read Melissa McEwan on DON’T YOU DARE FUCKING SAY I’M NOT A LEFTIST yet? Do that right now — while the people on the other side get a pass for being Actual Pinochet.

What do we have to lose?

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  • Villago Delenda Est

    Two things that OUTRAGE the Berniebros:

    1. Blah
    2. Vay jay jay

    • armed_bears

      Yeah… Bernie has an occasional Great Idea, and never a clue as to how to implement it… but, you know, soldier on Bernie Bros.

  • Terpsichord

    I’m gonna defy your momma and say Sanders and the Bernie Bros should STFU and stand down. ( BTW, my psychic tinglings tell me maybe Mother Russia lent a hand to Bernie also too).

    • Me not sure

      You would seem to be onto something.

    • (((fka_donnie_d)))

      Not likely, Bernie actually looked competent.

      • Ill-Advised

        Yeah. When I ignored his legislative record, he did. He raged in public, but he can’t get legislation passed.
        Not helping!

        • (((fka_donnie_d)))

          I said “looked”.

    • jesterpunk

      Bernie isn’t even a fucking Democrat, if he wants a say in the party either join the party or STFU with this holier then thou purity bullshit.

      • Spotts1701, Nothingburger Chef

        It would help if Tom Perez stopped letting him show up on the DNC’s dime to trash the DNC.

        • jesterpunk

          That too, no idea why they let him go along for speaking tours.

        • Ill-Advised

          I commented on my last survey that if Bernie’s Bros were so damn important, they could start giving regularly. I’m not interested in subsidizing white male misogynists with an entitlement issue.

          I’m not interested in subsidizing junior Congresspeople who think they should replace successful, experienced people during a constitutional crisis so they can embellish their resumes, either.

          • ahughes798

            I don’t know….Al Franken seems like a good bet to me.

    • JMP

      The Russians were responsible for the lie that the DNC ‘rigged’ the primary against Sanders to encourage his followers to vote Stein or go home, the one that some of the liberaler-than-thou purity trolls (and Putin-bots pretending to be purity trolls) keep repeating as if it were true instead of being completely debunked.

      • PenguinPenguinPenguin

        THIS!!! THIS!!!! THIS!!!!

        Dear Leader sent his Troll Army out there to tear Hillary down from the right AND the left.

        And he succeeded beyond his wildest dreams.

  • Jennifer R

    Yeah, I do actually get to demand she takes up better views on trans.

  • Roman Elazar

    Nach Drumpf kommen Wir!

  • Jim QuinnX

    Bernie is so, so 2016.

    • ChiefOfStaffCaptainHowdy

      Bernie is so, so 1916.

      FIFY

  • Me not sure

    So… in the face of a Republican party that has more concerns about American citizens influencing American elections than they do Russians influencing American elections we are going to trash each other. Divide and conquer is still working. Will Rogers was right.

  • Spotts1701, Nothingburger Chef

    Tulsi Gabbard?!? The one Democratic politician that Steve flippin’ Bannon likes? The one who got raked by the DNC and progressive groups for sneaking into Syria in the dead of night for meetings with Assad and then expressing skepticism that Assad used chemical weapons on his own people? FOX News’ favorite Democratic politician? That Tulsi Gabbard?

    *mutters inconsolably for 10 minutes*

    • Thiazin Red

      Doesn’t matter, she is St Bernie’s chosen so none of that is important.

    • PenguinPenguinPenguin

      She was anointed by the purest god the world has ever seen, Bernie Sanders.

      All her negatives get washed away as she is baptized in his sweat.

      All praise to Bernie, the annointed one!

  • FauxAntocles

    My guy or the highY!
    (ok IDK what that means…)

    • coastal_66

      wow, you’re so absurdist anarchist! so cool! we’re all impressed by your guy fawkes realness.

      • ahughes798

        I think Faux Antocles was kidding.

  • canes_pugnaces

    I guess I live in some kind of an coastal bubble, but GIlebrand or Harris are fine by me. Harris tends a little more conservative in the law and order dept. but seriously, lay the fuck off if you’re criticizing her. Pelosi: we’ll agree to disagree on this one.

    • BigCSouthside

      The thing that sucks about pelosi, is she is actually a fucking master legislator, BUT-and I think the DNC is partly to blame here-she’s become an anchor at election time due to the propaganda machine on the right.

      Harris/Gillibrand would be good I think. Like Obama, both are new enough that the Right hasn’t had time to build a bullshit rage portfolio yet on them that makes them more difficult sells to mid right voters.

      Edit: i should also add voters that are typically apathetic.

      • canes_pugnaces

        Pelosi, yes to the unfair propaganda. I also think she’s getting a little long in the tooth and is a little vague, at this point.

        • doug r

          Pelosi is a damn fine legislator and vote whipper. Anti-Nancys can BTFU.

          • canes_pugnaces

            She’s not a ‘fine’ legislator. She is an OK vote whipper. But for whatever reason(s), she is hurting dems in battleground states.

      • Biel_ze_Bubba

        The propaganda machine will demonize whoever is the nominee. Don’t matter who it is; they’d slander Jesus Christ if he came back and ran as a Dem.

        • BigCSouthside

          Agreed, but someone like obama could weather it because they haven’t had enough time to plant a bullshit campaign against them and cultivate it for years or decades.

          • Bemused

            Yeah, but if the pol hasn’t been around for a while, they don’t have the pull to do what Pelosi does.

          • PenguinPenguinPenguin

            Obama had the good fortune of running after the train wreck that was W’s second term. Had Obama followed a decent president, he probably wouldn’t have won.

            Oh, and toss in the bat shit crazy Sarah Palin…

          • Biel_ze_Bubba

            “Someone like Obama.” If only!

      • JMP

        Any Democratic leader is going to be the victim of the right-wing propaganda machine.

        • BigCSouthside

          I think what makes a difference is how long they have been. It hurt Hillary. She left State with mad approval numbers, because they kinda backed off her, but they had decades of made up shit on her and they deployed it when needed

      • BoatOfVelociraptors

        They All become an anchor due to the propaganda machine on the right.

      • coastal_66

        so you’re saying cower and give in to the bully machine? no, I don’t think so.

    • Biel_ze_Bubba

      All that matters is that we all get behind whoever wins the primary. No more purity ponies, or we get fucked. Again.

  • marxalot

    I am not a Bernie Bro– I voted (cheerfully!) for Clinton in this last pass– and my reservations about Harris boil down to: she’s a career prosecutor whose stances on incarceration as a social solution (she advocated jailing parents whose kids missed school too much), trans people in general (and trans people who end up in jails under her purview in particular), and sex work (which, hmm, is something trans people get jailed for a lot, come to think of it) are all terrible. I don’t care whose money she takes– all of that comes from the same place, since 1% of the population holds 95% of the wealth. I like what she’s doing in the Senate! But unless and until she both changes her public stances on those things and makes meaningful policy proposals to reverse them, I’m not down for her in the Executive.
    We cool?

  • (((fka_donnie_d)))

    Yeah, this is certainly more fucking important than the DNC promising funding to anti-choice dem candidates.

    • Shanzgood

      No shit.

      • Claire

        Yeah, I’ve been waiting for an article on that, to no avail. It seems kind of like an issue progressives should be discussing.

        • Shanzgood

          Again, with the “no shit” part. This seems really basic.

    • PenguinPenguinPenguin

      If an anti-choice Dem in the House gets Pelosi her Speaker’s gavel, I’m cool with that, even though I would disagree vehemently with that pols position.

      Which would you rather have, an anti-choice GOP who could do actual harm in a GOP House or an anti-choice Dem who would never get an anti-abortion bill passed in a Dem House?

      Big picture.

      And I’m as pro-choice as they get.

      • (((fka_donnie_d)))

        You have some data, maybe, that would offer a toothpick’s worth of support to the possibility that “an anti-choice Dem in the House gets Pelosi her Speaker’s gavel”?

        • PenguinPenguinPenguin

          Nope. But if it did, would that be bad thing?

          • (((fka_donnie_d)))

            Not at all, but then you wouldn’t be talking out your… hat.

            Spinning fine theories with no evidence is for conservatards.

            On the other hand, the number of attendees at the vagina hat marches is strong evidence for my argument.

          • PenguinPenguinPenguin

            What are you babbling about? You’ve made no argument, just the ranting of a crazy person.

          • (((fka_donnie_d)))

            Person who made claims with no evidence accuses opponent of making no argument. Details at 11.

          • PenguinPenguinPenguin

            Go fuck yourself.

            You think you’re funny, but, alas; you are not.

          • (((fka_donnie_d)))

            I try not to think, it keeps my brain in factory condition.

      • (((fka_donnie_d)))

        The strategic goal should be “making abortion easier”, not “keeping Republicans from making abortion harder”. That’s what “gets Pelosi her Speaker’s gavel”.

        • PenguinPenguinPenguin

          I won’t disagree with that.

          But the goal should be ‘Get Pelosi her Speaker’s gavel.’

          Full stop.

          • (((fka_donnie_d)))

            Not at the cost of making abortion easier, no.

          • PenguinPenguinPenguin

            What? Seriously, go home. You’re drunk.

  • arglebargle

    All eleventeen sides do it.

  • Jenny

    Ain’t got no time for these kids and their petty America ruining squabbles. I’m too busy trying to convince the boyfriend to transfer to Canada, Britain, or France and take me with him!

    • Jeff Ackerman

      Don’t leave out Australia or New Zealand!

  • Michael Smith

    Hey at least we don’t have liberals saying that is all Obama’s fault for being such a corporate shill..

    Or, wait, I am sure we do have some liberals somewhere saying that.

    • ZangoCrudmonger

      Just toss a few NIO Liebrals to keep it interesting.

    • JMP

      To be fair, the assholes saying that aren’t really liberals; they’re just pretending.

    • PenguinPenguinPenguin

      I had some Bernie Bro call him a war criminal during the primary when I challenged him on Obama’s lack of ‘progressive’ support in the 2010 midterms.

      • coastal_66

        i had a former good friend do/say the same, as well as disparagingly calling him a net-lib and major disappointment in general. and that person does consider themselves progressive or liberal or whatever label they’re trying to claim for themselves these days.

  • Resistance Fighter Callyson
    • Little Lulu Ω

      Saving this.

  • Wes Grogan

    I can’t help but think there might be a little bit of sarcasm in this post. :)

    • OutOfOrbit

      no there is not

  • The Wanderer

    Okay.
    My thought is that we elect every Democratic left-leaning progressive candidate no matter who they are or where they sit on the liberal spectrum. Hell, they can be Trotskyites.
    So long as they’re not Republicans or Trumpanzees.

    • greyXstar

      THIS.

    • Three Finger Salute

      “Vote for” != “elect.” The rubes will come out in droves again to vote against Harris no matter how much Trump has failed them. And Trump, sadly, will win, because MURICA.

      • Claire

        But they’ll come out in droves to vote against any Democratic candidate, because they are utterly consumed by hatred for every one of us. If it’s Harris instead of a white man, they’ll just pull the lever with a little extra spite. They won’t get to vote twice just because she’s a black woman. Given that that’s the case, we might as well run someone who might light a fire under our own base.

  • Biel_ze_Bubba

    In the headline-writing competition, honorable mention at least for the av club:
    “ABC’s Little Mermaid Musical Still Doesn’t Have Legs, Gets Postponed”

    • Three Finger Salute

      I’ll vote for the first candidate that pledges to sign an executive order banning gratuitous remakes.

      • Biel_ze_Bubba

        What needs banning are gratuitous Broadway musicals based on Disney cartoons. If you absolutely, positively can’t help yourself, stage them in fucking Disneyland.
        It worked once (The Lion King); that doesn’t make it a goddamned formula. Only tourists who discover they can’t just waltz into Hamilton are ever going to watch this crap.

        • Three Finger Salute

          Disney didn’t need to do live-action reboots of the animated princess films either. Come up with something new, and stop running the classics through the Xerox machine.

  • Resistance Fighter Callyson
  • Resistance Fighter Callyson
  • JMP

    The only real question is, do the “liberal” brogressive dicks hate Kamala Harris because she’s a woman, or because she’s black and Indian?

    • Jonny On Maui

      Yes.

    • PubOption

      AOTK.

    • BigCSouthside

      To me, and this is shallow, That’s one of her selling points. She’s a walking talking breathing “fuck you” to every racist piece of shit who voted trump because they hated Obama.

      • Three Finger Salute

        Which is why Trump will be president until 2024, or at least Pence. No matter what platform the Democratic candidate runs on, the hicks will vote against him — or especially her — as a fuck-you right back. The objective is to win and crush the GOP, not to “send a message” because at this point, they don’t care if you call them a racist. They wear it as a badge of honor and accuse you of being “politically correct.” So in order to crawl out of the hole in 2020, we either find another FDR, or be lost in the wilderness of a balkanized apartheid state perhaps forever. Bernie is not FDR because Bernie is Jewish.

        Much as the rubes say they hate “identity politics,” it matters a lot — in this case, the Rust Belt is lost if we focus too much on setting another demographic precedent and thus alienating the ‘billies. Remember LBJ’s axiom: if you can convince a poor white fella that he’s better than any black man, you can pick his pockets and he won’t even notice. If we don’t win in 2020, everyone is going to have their pockets picked by the Mercers, Murdoch, Russia, you name it, from now on. The United States is violently — and I do mean violently — allergic to cultural diversity.

        • Angela

          Sooo… we should only run white men if we want to win?

    • greyXstar

      AOT,K

    • Three Finger Salute

      AOT,K

  • (((fka_donnie_d)))

    I am the furthest thing from a Bernie bro, and I am just finding out about her bullshit. But I think it is absolute bullshit. Just because she was mean to Donnie doesn’t mean she gets a pass.

    If it was something tangential like defense or education, or even (sorta) voting rights, then yes. But the trans bullshit is bullshit.

    • Serai 1

      Uh huh. When the first thing out of your mouth is to protest about what you’re not, you’ve pretty much set up a big red flag.

      • (((fka_donnie_d)))

        That’s a fair point on your part. My only defense against it is my comment history.

    • greyXstar

      Obama was against gay marriage in 2008. I didn’t like that one bit but still very happily voted for him in the primary and general. Letting the perfect become the enemy of the good will mean we lose.

      • (((fka_donnie_d)))

        A) Marriage has nothing to do with physical integrity. Opposing gay marriage is not the same as supporting gay bashing, or any policies actively hostile to gays.

        B) _he walked it back_, because people kept after him. What you misunderstand is that (for me at least) this is not about voting. I don’t live in her district, and if she was running for pres. against Trump of course I would vote for her. That doesn’t mean I need to sit down and shut up about anything.

        • greyXstar

          I didn’t tell you to sit down and shut up, but thanks for putting words in my mouth. Great argument that will definitely win me over instead of earning a block.

          • (((fka_donnie_d)))

            I didn’t tell you to sit down and shut up

            No, the OP just passive-aggressively insinuated it.

            will definitely win me over

            I’m not trying to win anyone over. I’m explaining my position. Yes, you are not in fact legally obligated to listen to my explanation. Why do you ask?

          • Crazt Maist Waizy

            Fka seems very defensive, doesn’t he? That’s always going to arouse suspicion.

  • Jeff Ackerman

    Perfect is the enemy of good.

    • (((fka_donnie_d)))

      Again, if it was tangential issues having nothing to do with anybody’s physical integrity, absolutely.

      • Relativicus

        “Physical integrity”? Do you mean just the strength of a person’s skeletal system, or the other systems, too?

        • (((fka_donnie_d)))

          Congratulations, you made fun of somebody’s attempt to get reassignment surgery. I think you’re about done for the day. http://www.washingtonblade.com/2015/05/05/harris-renews-effort-to-block-gender-reassignment-for-trans-inmate/

          • Relativicus

            Lol!

            Wut?

          • Serai 1

            Jesus Christ, get off your high horse. You made an obscure remark guaranteed to cause confusion and then bitched off because the reader isn’t in your club. That’s a dick move.

          • (((fka_donnie_d)))

            My club? The club of “Trans people deserve access to medically approved healthcare”?

            Or are you arguing that we are supposed to read this article and not google “Kamala Harris trans”?

    • greyXstar

      Obama tried to warn us. Repeatedly.

  • William

    I would like to share a part of the conversation I had with a friend in Mexico via messenger.

    Me: Hey Alejandro. what’s your take on the cultural fallout from the conversation between our two Presidents.

    Alejandro: Well Bill, you know how in America you make fun of YOUR president and call him stupid?

    Me: Yeah?

    Alejandro: Well down here in Mexico, we make fun of YOUR president and call him stupid.

  • scubaix

    So…is gramma done now? i have to pee.

  • Michael Smith

    I think there are some people who just kind of fall in love with one particular kind of leader and get all Messianic about it. Then they look at all their other leaders and say “Man, these people are all garbage. They should all be more like the dude I like.” And these people get very passionate because the kind of person who falls head over heels for one leader tends to be a passionate person, if not necessarily a nuanced one.

    Meanwhile, you have other people who realize that no one is perfect, not even the guy that those other people seem to have a crush on. While these people actually have some nuance, sometimes their reluctance to believe too much in one person can leave them vulnerable. This is especially so when the candidate has been hanging around the party for a while and everyone knows their entire history and can cherry pick flaws. Next thing you know, they’re going “Yeah.. my candidate really isn’t perfect. Really, she’s not even a good candidate. She’s just the best we got, and she’s the only one who can win.” And that’s not the best sales pitch.

    • JMP

      Remember how those folks who got messianic about Obama – who, right-wing media, were just a small subset of his supporters, claiming that it was all of them is idiotic – turned on him the minute he took office and didn’t immediately give them the pony he thought they promised him? They would have done the same exact thing to Sanders had he actually become President.

      • Michael Smith

        Totally.

      • leemoder

        The nano-second Sanders made a practical decision they didn’t like they would’ve turned on him like it was “Dylan Goes Electric”.

    • emeraldSETI

      And the passionate person in question really doesn’t like to hear this kind of measured, objective analysis of their own personal psychology even though — to give them credit — they’re lefties so they’re generally cool with other kinds of reasoned, objective analyses in other contexts. But the searing pain of hearing their own self-blinding passions described as “part of the problem” is way too much of an insult to their egos so they find a way to project the problem back onto you, …

      … and so on, and so on.

    • Bemused

      I’m a pragmatic voter, but I really wanted Hillary Clinton. I cried (in a good way) when she got the nomination. I’m so happy I got to vote for her. So, you know, enthusiastic and pragmatic Hillary voter. We exist.

      • WomanInThePersistence

        Yes we do.

      • Michael Smith

        I was too, but I saw plenty of people who were like “here we go again, lesser of two evils,” yadda yadda. I just had someone say that the other day “Man we really had two bad candidates last election.”

        Are these people nuts? How in the hell at this point could you possibly have the gall to compare Hillary Clinton to Donald Trump?

        I’m starting to think there’s something to this whole sexism thing.

        • WomanInThePersistence

          Well that’s just startling. Yes, I am being sarcastic.

      • PenguinPenguinPenguin

        I flew halfway across the planet just to vote for her in person. And I donated a decent of chunk to her campaign. She would have been an exceptional president.

      • cjm69

        Yeah, you do exist. I know a couple of other people who were actual *enthusiastic* Clinton supporters, as well. But only a couple. You’re not quite as rare as unicorns, but close. Other than that, people mostly voted for her while holding their noses and gritting their teeth.

        (And that was true not just in the general, but in the primaries. I know all too many people who preferred Sanders, but grudgingly voted for Clinton because they thought “she could win.” Joke’s on them, I guess…)

    • Serai 1

      Yeah, and that kind of leader is the kind with a dick. Please don’t pretend this is anything but plain old OMG GURLZ EWWWW ball-clutching bullshit.

      • Michael Smith

        Yeah you’re right. I don’t think its the only time the phenomenon occurs – but for some reason Hillary Clinton’s being a woman really made people see impurity all over her. Meanwhile Bill, whose faults she pays for, is still more or less seen as a good guy who made some mistakes.

      • cjm69

        Oh, what a load of crap. I disliked Hillary to pretty much the same degree as I disliked Bill, and for pretty much the same reasons.

        I think this country is long, long overdue for a woman president. I just think it would’ve been a damned shame if Clinton had filled that role… because her administration would have been fair-to-middling at best, certainly centrist in its policies, probably plagued by even more obstructionism than Obama’s… and would therefore have been seen as a significant setback for future female candidates, not to mention for the Democratic Party in general.

        • Serai 1

          Right. So blame her for the shitheadedness of the people opposing her. What’s next, a paragraph on how “unlikable” she is? Please take your Rusbot bullshit and go home, ’cause I’m not interested in buying any today.

          • cjm69

            I’m not *blaming* Clinton for the ways the right opposes her. I’d readily agree that she’s been subjected to a lot of unfair treatment over the years.

            It’s not about blame, it’s about *foreseeable consequences*. A second Clinton administration would almost certainly have been even more disappointing than her husbands, or Obama’s. Some of the reasons would be her own fault, some would be due to her opponents, but the net results would be what they were.

            (Would it have been better than Trump’s? Well, of course… but you can go throw a stone at random on a crowded street and hit somebody who’d be a better president than Trump, so that’s really not where the bar should be set.)

  • raypc800

    You know seems that some forget very great words of warning of the past. ” A house divided cannot stand”. Democratic Party members should recognize that as a party we have enough problems from the outside, you know numerous lost governors, state senators positions and state house positions as well of numerous other losses down the line.
    Please name off how criticizing other Democratic Party members is going to help the party gain back what has been lost?
    It is time to unite or lie down like whimpering dogs snapping at one another and destroy what we currently have left to build on. The choice is yours, we have seen how the infighting has accomplished so much gains for the other party.
    Again the choice is all yours.

  • Ron Spangler

    Kamala, Tulsi, Kirsten … all good. Hell if Lisa Murkowski ditched her party and ran as an independent I could go for that too. Bernie? Love him. Joe? He’s Uncle Joe. Deval Patrick? Sure. All good. Have at it.

    • Three Finger Salute

      I would too. But I don’t think it’s feasible in this country, considering the virulent hatred that got directed at Obama, and later Hillary, in a way it didn’t to any other Democratic candidate — not even Bill Clinton. The giant blob of cherries in Middle America (as opposed to the little blueberry patches on the coasts) wouldn’t vote for any of them, no matter how many jobs they promised to create. Not even Biden, who even though he’s a white guy, like Gore he has the “albatross” of the hated Obama around his neck. Even Corbyn, were he American, might have a better chance than Bernie simply because he’s not Jewish.

      I’m being pragmatic and maybe realistically pessimistic having seen what just happened in 2016 and what went on since 2008. This is a profoundly bigoted country where demographic precedents are viewed as acts of war. If we went all-in and ran candidates representing the “coalition of the ascendant,” Trump would win an even biglier victory, because the “economically disaffected” simply do not want uppity minorities in the highest office of the land.

      Don’t we have a Farmer Frank Delano riding on a tractor instead of in a wheelchair, who can deliver the same platform but not scare the ‘billies (who we do need, because we can’t win with just CA, NY, Cambridge and Portlandia) with estrogen or melanin? I mean look at this map — do you really think someone with the same gender as Hillary and the same complexion as Obama has a chance of even clearing triple digits electorally?

      http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/583c8f50ba6eb69a018b66b9/heres-the-final-2016-electoral-college-map.jpg

  • Indiepalin

    Giving shit to Kamela Harris when the likes of Gohmert and Farentold are lurking in the Capitol Hallways sound like the kind of thing Jill Stein would do when she’s not avoiding stray microwaves.

  • Relativicus

    They’re also going after Deval Patrick (who I still hold in some contempt for a law he pushed through, almost immediately after Labor helped get him reelected, that allows municipalities to strongarm changes to their employees’ health insurance) and Cory Booker for the same reason.

    And not to be too cryptic about it but that brings the current number of potential Dem presidential candidates who are “Too Much Exactly Like Newt Gingrich, Ted Cruz, Paul Ryan, and Louie Gohmert” to two women, one black and one white, and two black men.

  • JMP

    Really, I used to like Bernie Sanders a lot, but when he started encouraging the worst instincts of the most obnoxious of his followers late in the primary after he had already lost, my respect for him took a hit; and now that his cult of personality of fake leftists are busy trying to destroy the Democratic Party and keep Republicans in charge, and he’s doing absolutely nothing to tell them to knock that shit off, it’s hard to have any respect for him anymore.

    Bernie, if you want to restore your good name, tell your rabid followers to shut the fuck up and let good liberal politicians do their jobs instead of trying to destroy them for the crime of not being you.

    • Relativicus

      I think that ship has sailed.

    • YetAnotherRebecca

      I’m on the same page. I was a fan of Bernie dating all the way back to 2008,
      when I started listening to liberal talk radio host Thom Hartmann, who would have him on every Friday for an hour-long call in segment. But after seeing how toxic so many of his fans became when he didn’t win the primary (and I’m not just talking about probable bots online, I’m talking about people I know personally) and how little he did to knock THAT down considering how loudly he knocked down Hillary and the Democratic Party – that respect and affection has been dulled significantly.

    • Serai 1

      He won’t because he’s never been about anything other than himself.

    • LeighBowery’sLuxuryComedy

      Also with you – sadly not real surprised, because if there’s a career politician who hasn’t been tainted by being a career politician, well, I don’t know about them.

      That said: I am *also too* very most tired of all the Bernie-bashing by everyone who thinks if not for him we’d have a Madame President right now, and the assumption that all Bernie supporters everywhere are really just hurr-hurr beer swilling frat douches who just want free college because more money for keggers, amirite? And therefore none of those Bern-ing new ideas need any attention paid because stoopit bros are stoopit and also they killed Hillary.

      There is just no apparent possibility that people who are not 20yearold jockboys might be upset at the first overtly progressive steps we’ve seen since – well I just don’t even know when – being hand-waved away. Sure is convenient that there are these asshole bro-bots out there allowing us to ignore all those scary leftist idears that were getting talked about in public even.. Meanwhile the DNC makes nicey-nice with anti-choicers FFS but don’t disagree with THAT or you might as well just put on a MAGA hat and sign up for a lobotomy.

      • MrTusks

        I liked Bernie too. I voted for him in the PA primary, and I’m still not convinced he would have lost the general. But when he didn’t get the nomination I just thought “Welp, I guess we’re not ready for that yet,” and did my fucking job and voted for Hillary in November.

        So, reasonable Berners exist, more than we think. I never got how Hillary convinced so many that she would usher in a new age of progress–at best, things would just stay in the same old slightly-below-adequate place. But I wasn’t going to tear her down when it counted.

      • PenguinPenguinPenguin

        Bernie’s primary run was over on March, 15, 2016 when he lost FL, NC, OH, IL & MO.

        That was it. He was done.

        But he continued on and his campaign got nasty towards Hillary, with some help from Russian fake news and pilfered DNC e-mails.

        Had he suspended his campaign on March 16, 2016, that would have given his more ardent supporters time to get over his losing and to get behind Hillary.

        Instead, he grudgingly endorsed her just prior to the convention and was a lackluster supporter on the campaign trail.

        Bernie won the MI & WI primaries, two states that Orange carried by the slimmest of margins. Coincidence? I think not.

        So, yeah, I’ll keep blaming Bernie and his supporters for Orange barely winning this thing. The same way I’ll keep blaming the Russians, James Comey and, yes, even Hillary for her own mistakes.

        Own it because it happened and no amount of denial will change that.

        • King Beauregard

          “But he continued on and his campaign got nasty towards Hillary, with some help from Russian fake news and pilfered DNC e-mails.”

          And let’s not forget that he was still feverishly soliciting $27 donations all that time, even though he could no longer possibly win. That is when his noble campaign technique turned into a rebranded version of the televangelists’ grift, pleading for “love offerings” that will keep the nation from falling into the hands of Satan, I mean Hillary.

          There is a difference, though: very few televangelists claim to be opposed to exploiting the poor.

    • cratewasher

      Bernie Sanders and his supporters were far better allies to Hillary, than Hillary and her supporters ever were to him.
      It should have been so easy; yet, she squandered a grass roots movement handed to her on a platter.
      And, still; the DNC is acting like they want to try the same lackluster, centrist, incrementalist approach they couldn’t quite enunciate the last time…

  • PubOption

    I saw a bumper sticker today “Not Nominating Bernie was a Yoouge Mistake”.

    • ChiefOfStaffCaptainHowdy

      Because bumperstickerer does not understand how elections work. Unsurprising.

    • PenguinPenguinPenguin

      Did you key the car? I would’ve.

  • beatbort

    Jill Stein, Puppet of Putin, sez wot?

  • greyXstar

    Do not feel badly about these kinds of things. Counterproductive nonsense needs to be called out and shut down. Always.

  • jesterpunk

    OT U.S. Added 209,000 Jobs in July, Beating Expectations. Trump is taking credit for it.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/04/business/economy/jobs-report-unemployment.html

    Before the election this was his reaction to good job numbers.

    https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/383655276542308353

  • Ωbjectifier

    Just spitballin’ here but instead of shaking up the leadership, Dems focus on what seats may be picked up in 2018. Arizona will likely have both Senate seats in play and, so far, not a single viable candidate has been identified.

    I know what you’re thinking. Arizona. Lost cause. That’s the thinking that got us where we are now.

    • LesBontemps

      Since Jeff Flake appears to be actively running against the Trump administration, that’s gonna be a tough seat to take. If/when McCain bows out will be the time to start pushing (so as not to look too vulturish in the meantime).

  • OutOfOrbit

    to “primary” a neo-liberal is not a bad thing & that said, i donut know nutting about kamala

    • JMP

      But considering that there are almost no actual neoliberals in the modern Democratic party, that doesn’t really matter.

    • WomanInThePersistence

      She’s. Fucking. Awesome.

      • OutOfOrbit

        i will take that as a good start

        • LesBontemps

          I Am Not A Californian, so I only know what I’ve seen of her this year — starting with her speech at the Women’s March which was terrific (I said to a friend, “Is she running for President? Cause she totally could.”) and then in the Senate hearings with Sessions (where she kept her cool while being mansplained to death). So I am pro-Harris until I see some reason not to be. Also pro-Gillibrand, pro-Warren, pro-any-reasonable Democrat who will kick Trump’s fat ass out of the Oval.

  • laughingnome

    If our whole political system was changed – the current one naturally creates two dominant parties – into a parliamentary system these kind of internecine feuds would not happen since all the splinters would have their own party. Just won’t happen here – and it’s counterproductive to criticize your own party members over less than substantial issues. The nit-pickers are not helping. And I’m in love with Kamala Harris.

  • TheGrandWazoo2

    ‘None Of The Democrats Are Perfect So Let’s Stay Home Or Vote Third Party And Let Republicans Win Election Season’ is my favorite time of the year.

  • dslindc

    Again, BERNIE SANDERS IS NOT A DEMOCRAT. BERNIE SANDERS IS NOT A DEMOCRAT. BERNIE SANDERS IS NOT A DEMOCRAT. BERNIE SANDERS IS NOT A DEMOCRAT. BERNIE SANDERS IS NOT A DEMOCRAT. BERNIE SANDERS IS NOT A DEMOCRAT. BERNIE SANDERS IS NOT A DEMOCRAT. BERNIE SANDERS IS NOT A DEMOCRAT. BERNIE SANDERS IS NOT A DEMOCRAT. BERNIE SANDERS IS NOT A DEMOCRAT. BERNIE SANDERS IS NOT A DEMOCRAT.

    • Joe Beese

      I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here.

      • Major_Major_Major

        That Bernie isn’t a Democrat?

    • MynameisBlarney

      Are you subtly trying to insinuate that Bernie Sanders isn’t a Democrat?

    • cjm69

      Explain to me why I should give a damn.

      I don’t vote for somebody because of the letter they have in parentheses next to their name. I don’t make political choices based on loyalty to the home team — that’s how Republicans do it.

      I make my choices based on the values and policy positions a candidate represents. And by that standard, Sanders was and is a far better upholder of progressive values in the tradition of FDR than most officeholders marked with an official (D) could ever hope to be.

      The more you (and the party leadership) try to tell people that they should vote for Dems simply because they’re Dems, the more voters you’re going to lose.

  • One of the things I loved best about President Obama was his ability to focus on the long term future while tending to what can be done to get there in the present.

    Being pragmatic is not a health condition.

    Senator Harris understands the value of pragmatism and how it plays a role in shaping long term political and social outcome.

    • cjm69

      Fuck “pragmatism.” That was the watchword for both the Clinton and the Obama administrations… and in the past 25 years Democrats in national office have at best conducted a holding action against right-wing policies, and all too often lost ground.

      Meanwhile the GOP in those same years threw pragmatism to the wind, embraced the most provocative positions they could find, beat the drum about them relentlessly in the media, pushed candidates who supported them… and it won over voters, and now they control all three branches of government plus most statehouses. Granted, they can’t govern worth a bucket of shit, but that’s neither here nor there… because right now neither can Democrats, in the position they’re in.

      Pragmatism inspires nobody. It’s a losing strategy… and even when it occasionally wins, it gets next to nothing done.

  • canes_pugnaces
    • Richard Girlswin

      One, not the Open Thread, and two, it’s been posted multiple times and featured in an article earlier today.

      • ChiefOfStaffCaptainHowdy

        So you’re the Thread Police or summin?

        • Richard Girlswin

          I just don’t like digging through memes to read the discussion in a forum that provides a daily thread full of memes and such?

      • canes_pugnaces

        Thank god you’re here.

  • shivaskeeper

    Well fucking said.

    I have a feeling the ones doing the majority of the smearing are those that keep holding on to the burn it all down mentality. They would cheerfully reelect DJT or elect someone worse if they could to burn it all and be utterly convinced none of it will touch them. Then they, as the magical survivors on the top of the heap, can rebuild it all.

    Fuck them. Fuck their purity. Fuck tossing people under the fucking bus so they can feel even more special. Fuck everything they pretend to stand for.

    • SadDemInTex

      Yep

    • Bub, the cynical zombie

      Speaking of them, what’s Susan Sarandon up to these days?

      • Vincent Ricola

        Not worrying about her healthcare plan or the healthcare plans of others in her Hollywood mansion, I assume.

      • Beanz&Berryz

        Where is her political rage?

    • ChiefOfStaffCaptainHowdy

      “They would cheerfully reelect DJT or elect someone worse if they could to burn it all and be utterly convinced none of it will touch them.”

      THIS IS THE PLAN. DO NOT FORGET.

      • Serai 1

        There’s really very little difference between these assholes and, say, Steve Bannon. They both want to burn everything and neither are likely to suffer for it.

        • shivaskeeper

          That’s where they are wrong. The magical thinking let’s them pretend they won’t be effected. They will suffer just like everyone else if they get their wish and it does all burn.

      • shivaskeeper

        I won’t forget it.

  • WomanInThePersistence

    Harris, Gillibrand, Pelosi….hhhhmmmm….could there be something that they have in common? Like girlgerms?

    • MynameisBlarney

      I think the medical term for that is “Cooties”.

    • Bub, the cynical zombie

      Cooties is a serious handicap to a political career it seems.

      • LesBontemps

        Just the girlcooties. Boycooties are a-ok!

        • SDGeoff3

          Thanks, Bart.

        • commatoes

          You can supposedly pray away the gay. So gaycooties are curable?

    • Spotts1701, Nothingburger Chef

      I love dealing with people whose view of equality stopped at around 3rd grade, don’t you?

      • WomanInThePersistence

        Actually, no. I’m so fucking over this.

    • coozledad

      Dirtbags are working for Trump. They love his ass. I think they are worse than some of the Republicans in their open animosity toward women and blacks.

      • Red Bird

        Of course. Why do you think so many of them didn’t vote during midterms?

    • Juggernuts

      Nice way to dodge the actual debate surrounding those corporate sellouts. You can try painting “berniebros” with the woman hater brush, but it just means you’re not willing to debate in good faith and nobody should pay attention to anything your stupid ass has to say.

      For the record, I think Elizabeth Warren, Tulsi Gabbard, or Nina Turner would make great presidents.

      • WomanInThePersistence

        Surprisingly, I am not actually interested in your opinion.

  • Ms.MLG on Maui

    ANY WHITE MALE 2018!

    • WomanInThePersistence

      I’m so sick of these misogynistic assholes.

  • Little Lulu Ω

    Rebecca, THANK YOU! I saw my first put-down of Kamala Harris this morning by a fellow liberal on Bookface and I’m wtf? When did that start? No more purity tests!

  • WiscoJoe

    If liberals are successful, then they’ll become powerful. Power is corrupt, therefore successful liberals are inherently corrupt. That’s why I only support liberals with no chance of success, because taking a stand against corruption is way more important than actually having the power to do anything to fight against corruption.

    Also, I liked Arcade Fire until their immense talent made a lot of other people like them.

    • TJ Barke

      Gotta be the elite anti-elite group.

    • Serai 1

      Well, you know, it’s easy to be righteous when you’re in the one group least likely to suffer from your pigheaded nonsense.

      • WiscoJoe

        Ugh, tell me about it, right? I can’t tell you the number of straight white financially secure white men that have said something to me along the lines of “I just don’t understand how blacks/queers/females/[insert “other” group here] can sell out and support someone like Clinton/Harris/Booker/Gillibrand instead of a “real” progressive Bernie.”

        It’s like, dudes, maybe groups of people who have faced a long history of institutional oppression and seen an ebb/flow of justice are a bit more familiar with the concepts of pragmatism, risk assessment, and long term organization? Also, maybe these groups of people have actual experience in building coalitions and have had to deal with the all too common phenomenon of “real” progressive white male saviors coming in at the last minute and trying to take over a movement by shutting everyone else down and prioritizing their own personal ideology?

        • Serai 1

          Or even just favoring the person who knows what the fuck she’s going to DO about all these problems? and like, has written whole BOOKS on the subject? Instead of the unfocused Grandpa running around promising ponies and ice cream?

        • coastal_66

          freaking bingo. I’ve had this exact discussion, as a queer man, w a (former) friend during this past election cycle. don’t tell blacks, queers or anyone else who knows very well how the system works and doesn’t work, what and how they should think. just don’t. we smell b.s. better than they do.

        • ronbo

          Do you also hate Social Security and Medicare? The social contract established under FDR is not dead to the vast majority of voters.

          • WiscoJoe

            Uh… no. Just no.

            Did you perhaps respond to the wrong comment?

          • ronbo

            Sorry. My mistake.

            I’m getting the sense that a lot of the people here would like to see Social Security and Medicare privtized. Or as Hillary said in her Wikileaks reveal, she’d “fix” them on the “service side”.

          • WiscoJoe

            Thanks for helping to illustrate my point, I guess.

          • Ill-Advised

            No. We do have periodic troll infestations, despite the face that we don’t allow comments. I recommend reading the about us section for inoculation.

        • what, me worry?

          You’d think that historically disenfranchised groups might not put a lot of faith in politicians who only became allies when opinion polls told them it was safe to do so, but sure.

          • WiscoJoe

            Is there something in my comment that upset you?

          • what, me worry?

            Just the general contemptuous tone.

          • WiscoJoe

            You must be new to this website. Enjoy!

            Tone police are so very welcome here.

          • what, me worry?

            “It’s like, dudes, maybe groups of people who have faced a long history of institutional oppression and seen an ebb/flow of justice are a bit more familiar with the concepts of pragmatism, risk assessment, and long term organization? Also, maybe these groups of people have actual experience in building coalitions and have had to deal with the all too common phenomenon of “real” progressive white male saviors coming in at the last minute and trying to take over a movement by shutting everyone else down and prioritizing their own personal ideology?”

            Based on the above, can we assume that you think the working class white people who voted for Trump, and before that, for Reagan, knew precisely what they were getting into, and fuck all those liberals who tried to explain they were voting against their own interests?

            Or, are historically disenfranchised groups uniquely able to suss out bullshit better than everyone else? And, if so, why do such groups keep voting for people who continuously screw them over?

            Maybe you’re just full of shit?

    • hendenburg2

      I considered liking Arcade Fire. Then I found out that they have a dress code for their concerts and are total dicks about it. So fuck them.

      • WiscoJoe

        Not sure if that’s meant as satire or not, but it’s a pretty good representation of the misleading ad-hominem attacks that so many successful liberal politicians have to deal with.

    • mfp, all 6s&7s&9s

      hunh….yeah, that ‘immense talent’ never won me over, so….

      • WiscoJoe

        Thanks for sharing!

    • Iam Reading

      That was brilliant^^^^^^

    • what, me worry?

      I think the power is important, and since power is corruptive anyway, I only vote for politicians who are proven corrupt before they even have the power, because it’s more efficient that way. I like my corrupt candidates packaged, and sold to me with the slick advertising only bribe money can buy.

      • WiscoJoe

        That’s dumb.

        • what, me worry?

          I agree. Clearly, you don’t know when you’re being mocked.

          • WiscoJoe

            Hilarious.

            Anyway, feel free to troll through comments I’ve made in the past week to help explain things to me. It’s so helpful and productive and definitely a good use of your time.

  • Vincent Ricola

    But… but… how can I look politically edgy in front of my online friends if I don’t decry the experienced and politically talented in favor of the loud and politically ineffective? Boris on Facebook says I’m the smartest American lefty he’s ever known! Every other country on the planet is way more left than the US and Kamala would be considered a conservative in those places, so you just don’t understand. Bern it down 2020!

    • Joe Beese

      I’m probably who you have in mind with this insult, but I have to say: Nicely crafted.

      • Vincent Ricola

        It’s the small things that brings us together on the left. *hugs*

  • Joe Beese

    I’ll make a deal with the Democratic Party. It promises not to conspire against progressive candidates for the nomination. I promise not to oppose centrist candidates in any way that would weaken them in a general election. And when that centrist candidate wins – for various reasons that I’m not happy about – I will vote for them in November with however much nostril pinching is required.

    Because the alternative is a whole lot worse.

    Deal?

    • JMP

      Considering that the Democratic Party has never conspired against progressive candidates for a nomination, why do you want a promise for them to not do something they have never done and would never do?

      • TJ Barke

        Citation needed.

        • Saxo the Grammarian

          Can’t prove a negative. Burden of proof is the person making the positive claim.

          • Joe Beese

            Quite right. They might have meant me.

            In which case:

            Exhibit A: Debbie Wasserman Schultz
            Exhibit B: Donna Brazile

          • WomanInThePersistence

            Girlgerms!

          • Christopher Smith

            Yeah. As criminally incompetent as Washerwoman and Brazilenut both are, ‘conspiracy’ is a bit over the top as a description of either’s behavior.

          • Angela

            The only thing DWS did wrong was allow Sanders to run as a Democrat. She should have said no. Then none of this shit is even happening right now.

          • coastal_66

            werd

          • coastal_66

            you’ve already undermined your ‘promise’. good job.

    • ChiefOfStaffCaptainHowdy

      Since there was no “conspiracy against progressive candidates for the nomination”, you are a lying two-faced sideways-talking sack of shit.

      • Richard Girlswin

        WOAH. Escalatedquickly.gif

        • ChiefOfStaffCaptainHowdy

          Decisive action was called for.

          • Richard Girlswin

            Sure, blistering string of personal insults in the middle of a political discussion. I can see how you had no choice.

            Other than debating the merits of his ideas maybe but what do I know.

          • ChiefOfStaffCaptainHowdy

            There were no “merits” of “ideas”, as clearly expressed in my reply to the OP.

      • coastal_66

        truth. it was a pathetic attempt at cloaking b.s. in false ‘cooperation’. deserved to be called out as you did.

    • LeighBowery’sLuxuryComedy

      I made that deal a good twenty-five, thirty years ago. Still waiting for them to hold up their end, tho.

    • aychrist

      Their entire job is to “conspire” for the presidential nominee from their party. That and throw a party every four years.

    • Vincent Ricola

      Just vote for the person who won their party’s nomination and isn’t going to shit all over the country, please.

      • Three Finger Salute

        Even if it’s Fuckerberg?

        • Vincent Ricola

          Ugh. Yes. Ugh.

    • Matt

      alternately, you could fuck with this shit. How about that instead?

    • The Rain in Spain’s Therapist

      Maybe you people need to stop bullshitting around and just start your own progressive third party. See if you all can get YOUR shit together.

      • Richard Girlswin

        Best reply. If the Democrats aren’t left enough for you go start your own movement, don’t climb all over their shit telling them they’re doing everything wrong.

        But my country doesn’t have a two party system so this probably sounds way more practical to me than it should.

        • cjm69

          For whom *are* the Democrats “left enough”? Anyone who thinks the Democrats are even *slightly* left is living in a dream world.

          This country has a center-right party and a far-right party. The actual policy preferences of most Americans, on most issues, are measurably to the left of *both* parties.

          The GOP is never going to go after voters to the left — their strategy is to marginalize them and disenfranchise them. The Dems could and should, though — there are millions of people (especially young people) feeling alienated and unrepresented, just waiting for a party to speak up for them, to motivate and mobilize them. Instead far too many Dems keep bleating about trying to recapture Trump voters. It’s a fool’s errand.

          (So, incidentally, is starting a third party. That’s never really worked in the US system, and never will. Look up Duverger’s Law.)

      • hendenburg2

        And of course, when a divided liberal vote leads to Republicans getting a plurality, they won’t take responsibility. Just like Maine’s left-wing third parties don’t take any responsibility for handing the Governor’s Mansion to Racist Shitbag Paul LePage despite getting only 38% of the vote.

    • OutOfOrbit

      i take your view — nd add that there are some projectionists here who are bedazled by their own narrow focus

    • WomanInThePersistence

      Deal. And it would be nice if the “not-actually-a-democrat-who-was-very-kindly-allowed-to-run-as-one” did not approve of his followers being assholes

    • greyXstar

      Have a thousand seats.

    • BigCSouthside

      Hi,

      Let me explain something about primaries real quick. A party is in no way bound to be impartial in a primary. They aren’t even bound in any way to hold primaries. Primaries are new things.

      Sanders was an insurgent, who infiltrated a major party for one purpose, and that was to leverage its machine. Sanders has never been a big time democrat fund raiser, he’s never helped elect democrats to office, he has not really done much for the party itself in his entire career. The Clintons are fucking first ballot hall of fame when it comes to that stuff

      That said, Hillary beat him in the primary and it wasn’t all that close.

      • coastal_66

        exactly. a party is allowed, and even bonded, to elect representatives of its platform that they see best fit. it’s allowed to create it’s platform. if you fundamentally disagree with that platform, then create another–but not within that party.

      • cjm69

        Why should any ordinary grass-roots voter give a flying fuck what Sanders has done “for the Party,” or for other Democratic candidates? That’s not what the election was about — it was about who had the best ideas for the country. That’s why he generated so much support.

        People who think this is about who’s the most loyal member of the club have got the entire purpose of this “politics” thing completely ass-backwards.

        (Although even if you do care about that stuff… and it becomes relevant mostly for the sake of keeping the opposition party from controlling the agenda between elections, when the actual governing happens… it’s odd for you to give the Clintons credit. They may be good at raising money, but money is not votes, and Dems held far fewer seats at the end of Clinton’s White House tenure than at the beginning… and even fewer that that today. His whole DLC-style strategy has always been a long-term loser.)

  • marxalot

    Nuance 2018!

    • Vincent Ricola

      Pragmatism 2020!

      • marxalot

        Hey, if we get a Nuance Congress in 2018, a Pragmatist Executive would look pretty good.

  • georgiaburning

    This is like a bad prison movie: a minority of the convicts run the cellblock and keep the population divided. Anybody who they don’t like gets finked on to the corrupt guards. The guards are just fine with the system since it lets them run the place with minimum effort. Punishing good people for prior involvement in the Democratic party sounds like a strategy the Republicans heartily endorse.

    • Zippy W Pinhead

      Are the women wearing lingerie?

      Asking for a friend…

      • Joe Beese
      • Martini Ambassador 🍸

        Hey, I’m wearing lingerie right now! Of course, it’s the sensible communist wear that the party endorses. And pants, I’m wearing pants over that.

        • Zippy W Pinhead

          Pants?

          Heretic…

          • Martini Ambassador 🍸

            Well, I just came back from being out and about, and those uptight prudes at the post office can be really condescending about “public indecency.”

  • WomanInThePersistence

    She made JeffBo nervous. I like her a lot.

    https://youtu.be/mK_HmEFxCpI

  • Ms.MLG on Maui

    But does she even golf?

  • SDGeoff3

    Thanks for this. It inspired me to send munneyz.

    • coastal_66

      (eye roll)

  • aychrist

    GOOD GODDAMN I AM HERE FOR THIS

  • Joe Beese

    I’d also like to make a deal with Democratic internet commenters. You won’t call criticisms of Harris and Booker racist, and I won’t call your criticisms of Sanders and Stein anti-Semitic.

    • h4rr4r

      I think criticism of Stein is more anti-Russian than anti-Semitic.

      • Joe Beese

        So do I.

        I also think criticism of Harris is anti-Wall Street rather than anti-black.

        • ChiefOfStaffCaptainHowdy

          “Wall Street”

          *drink*

        • Vincent Ricola

          I respectfully disagree.

        • Anna Rompage

          Can I ask this.. Seriously…

          Harris has spent he entire adult career as a district attorney & then AG of CA..

          How on gods green earth does that make her a Wall St crony?

          • ChiefOfStaffCaptainHowdy

            But but but Obama was the Wall Street president, remember? Bush III!!!1!!1!

          • The Rain in Spain’s Therapist

            *crickets*

    • ChiefOfStaffCaptainHowdy

      Oh fuck off already.

    • JMP

      Or we would call criticism of them that is racist, racist, and not any other – just as we’ve done all along! No one has ever gotten called racist unless they actually said something racist.

    • Anna Rompage

      Nobody would ever accuse Sanders or Stein of being cosmopolitan…

    • WomanInThePersistence

      Well. You just went there.

      • Carpe Vagenda

        Don’t tell me, let me guess. Captain Ivory Soap is still bobbing in Stein’s bathwater?

        • WomanInThePersistence

          Flagged it. Because that’s enough.

    • Lance Thrustwell

      That should be a pretty easy deal to make!

    • elviouslyqueer

      Good thing we aren’t allowed to comment on Wonkette.

    • janecita

      OMG, I got told off a couple of nights ago by some random commenter, because I criticized Booker. I’m from Jersey, I know how much he sucks.

      • Lance Thrustwell

        I think Booker is kinda googly-eyed & unfocused-seeming at times. And he talks too loud sometimes too.

        There, I said it.

        • Joe Beese

          If he’s got the huevos to call for the federal legalization of marijuana, he’s a man I can come to terms with.

          • janecita

            Please, he is just doing it so people will forget that he is big pharma’s bitch.

          • r m reddicks

            He always seems like the founding member of the “Corey Booker” party to me. Hell, even trump’s ego/psychosis seems to redeem/infatuate the maddened among us.

        • janecita

          He has no substance. The man has been chasing the presidency since day one.

      • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

        eh, if this is about me: i was disagreeing with you and it sure and it didn’t sound like criticism. I believe it started with “fuck booker” and all about he’s a pharama whore, so let’s not call that “criticism”, shall we?

        Also, i said fair enough when you said you’d vote for the Dem nominee.

        • janecita

          No dude, it wasn’t you:-) I like you. If you look back, it was a new commenter. Then he went and stalked me on a whole bunch of my old comments. I had to block him.

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            ah, in that case my bad.

            And i like you too!
            ; )

          • WomanInThePersistence

            Really? That’s so not cool.

          • janecita

            Yup, it was weird. I never had to block anyone before, but I didn’t feel like dealing with a stalking troll.

          • WomanInThePersistence

            That sucks. This is generally a very pleasant nasty, vile little snark mob. I hope you flagged them.

    • Bub, the cynical zombie

      I think it is possible to criticize all of those individuals without being racist OR anti-Semitic. I have yet to see anyone who is so perfect and pure as to be immune to criticism. Perhaps the problem is that there are many individuals who are unwilling to face the fact that the perfect is the enemy of the good.

    • r m reddicks

      I think that was what Bennie was getting at in “Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia”.

    • Jenny

      I actually never thought about their jewish ancestry. I hate them because they promise undeliverable drivel promises to people with no intention of follow through.

    • Angela

      The amusing this about this is you address Democratic commenters, but expect us to weigh Harris/Booker (Democrats) and Sanders/Stein (not Democrats) equally. I didn’t even know Stein was Jewish, and the only thing about Sanders that gives it away is his NY Jewish accent. It’s not a factor for me, nor have I ever seen it mentioned by anyone else around here. But criticizing Harris/Booker for doing the same shit that every other white male candidate has done without criticism… that’s just not a coincidence. And that really applies to Obama/HRC even more, since we have the benefit of hindsight to compare their treatment to the treatment of every white male candidate that came before and after them.

    • coastal_66

      straw man alert

  • ChiefOfStaffCaptainHowdy

    The number two threat to the country is sideways slimy pig turd Bernie Fucking Sanders.

    • Ms.MLG on Maui

      I had been wondering where you were. I see you’re still holding in your true feelings about things! ;)

    • Msgr_MΩment

      Number one is Bears.

  • Serai 1

    Oh my, how surprising that the women get dogpiled. My, I’m so shocked, I’ll have to take up drinking.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8a7652c50d8e60db3cda37dff15645f19171d95332ae27230f83bbc50a9eb4cb.gif

    • SDGeoff3

      Don’t worry, it’s easy to do.

    • Spotts1701, Nothingburger Chef

      Just remember to recycle the bottles!

      • SDGeoff3

        My mom sat me down the night before I went off to college and gave me a word of wisdom. “You’re probably going to be doing some drinking. Now remember this, take a couple of Bufferins before you go to bed and also as soon as you wake up in the morning. The first time you forget to do this, you’ll understand.”

      • r m reddicks

        I hear that Peggy Noonan sweats the bottle on the stove. If you do enough of them you can obtain some residuals. Then you go off your rep-meds and diss trump.

  • SDGeoff3

    I voted for Kamala Harris in our last election and I am proud, thrilled, and goosey-bumpy that she represents me.

    • The Librarian

      Me, also too!! :D

      • Darkrose

        So much this!

        Also yay librarians! Starting my fourth semester of my MLIS program in a couple of weeks.

        • The Librarian

          Wonderful! Best of luck. Always happy to meet a comrade in arms on this here mommyblog! Will you graduate next year?

    • coozledad

      She’s a natural. Her supporters will be ready to kick some blubbery white ass.

  • Martini Ambassador 🍸

    I am so done with the purity ponies. Honestly, I think most of them are either anarchists or secretly working with the alt-right scumbags to blow the party up. And whoever is not in those two buckets is even more pigheaded and no more enlightened than a bro libertarian discovering for the first time that “The Fountainhead” speaks to them.

    • SDGeoff3

      Contrarianism breeds all sorts of disorders.

    • Maybe

      To me they seem to be identical to the radical right–not in political beliefs, but in their sense of entitlement. Both groups seem to feel that if they don’t immediately get their own way, 100%, no compromise, that they are victims.

  • Saxo the Grammarian

    Boy, there will be heck to pay when we finally catch up with that corporatist pseudo-leftist Leon Trotsky…

    Wait, what?

    • r m reddicks

      Let me pick my brain on that one.

  • Zippy W Pinhead

    Tulsi Gabbard D-Assad

    Just STFU bros

  • Resistance Fighter Puipui

    I love our Wonkette overlord. <3

    • marxalot

      OMG is that a Yu Yu Hakusho avi?

      • janecita

        Nerd.

      • Resistance Fighter Puipui

        It is! It’s from a doujinshi series wherein Hiei has bunny ears and a tail, and is technically a very cranky bunny named Puipui who lives with his friend Fuwafuwa the Fox (Kurama with fox ears and a tail) in a house shaped like a teapot. (It’s a very odd doujinshi series.)

        • marxalot

          Okay, first: uh wut.
          Second: links or gtfo.

    • SDGeoff3

      She moves me.

  • Lance Thrustwell

    If I may offer a timid note of qualification to an otherwise highly justified rant – The biggest problem of all is the non-voting public, the majority of whom would probably vote Democrat if they could be roused to vote at all. When your concern is how to rouse this sleeping giant, then the crucial question becomes – who is bold and exciting and uncompromising enough to wake their asses up?

    That – I submit -is a significant source of Democratic angst, and the angst in turn fuels many of the petty divisions that seem to be all about ‘who is most pure’.

    • Me not sure

      Republicans, seemingly more than Democrats, know that what you say is true. They fight that arousal constantly.

    • Maybe

      You have hit on a key point. The Repubs keep winning although they are a minority and in large parts because Dems/progressive/liberals either don’t turn out or insist on a “pure” candidate who can’t win.

      The sort-of, dark-humor good news is that for the moment the person who is bold and exciting and uncompromising enough to wake Dem asses up seems to be Donald Trump.

      • Lance Thrustwell

        That is true. I think, Odin willing, we may all be a little pleasantly surprised by the voting turnouts in ’18, and especially ’20.

      • Claire

        In 2016, Hillary Clinton swept the largest city in every state except for the four or five states where the “largest city” has more cows than people (and Florida). I’m not talking by small percentages, either; she crushed the ballot boxes, and the larger the city (mostly), the larger her advantage. Turnout was down among some demographics, yes; but when we’re talking about turnout, we need to give some time and thought to the fact that Democrats *are* turning out – in the cities, where most of us live. It’s not just our turnout that needs to be fixed, it’s out entire system of representation.

        • Lance Thrustwell

          Oh, no doubt; I agree totally. It’s just that to win in Red counties (under the current system), our numbers have to go up to something close to 100%. That takes some serious grassroots fire.

          • Donkey Option

            And perhaps figuring out a way around all this gerrymandering.

          • GHERKINS OF RESTIVENESS!

            And perhaps plugging up the “Other red-state” issue: Red Russia fucking around inside our voting systems.

          • Claire

            You’re not wrong, but I think we need to keep an eye on the fact that red counties are steadily becoming older and less educated (i.e., more Republican) than the rest of the population because the younger people leave, go to college, discover that black people are not literally Satan, and never go back. We lose in those counties because Republicans straight outnumber us, and the trend of Republicans outnumbering us in rural areas doesn’t seem to be doing anything but speeding up. If something isn’t done to remove the wildly disproportionate weight given to rural areas in American politics, all the grassroots mobilization on the planet won’t do us any good.

          • Three Finger Salute

            Don’t count out the young’uns who don’t leave and have a dozen kids who are then home-schooled and taught to always vote Republican for Jesus. Democrats don’t breed enough to outnumber the Quiverfull.

          • Claire

            There are those too. And I’m not going to start popping out kids at my age to help us catch up, either.

          • Lance Thrustwell

            Yeah, you have a point. NPVIC!

        • Biel_ze_Bubba

          That sort of self-gerrymandering is hard to overcome. Residents of SF and NYC are not about to move out to Cowflop Junction en masse.

          • Claire

            I’ve actually heard people suggest that, and I’m like, really? No. But you’re right, it’s very hard to overcome with the EC system, which if I recall correctly is the reason America got downgraded to “flawed democracy.”

        • Maybe

          I agree–starting with the electoral college and special interest money–but unfortunately the people who could fix that are the ones who profit from it.

          For now I think Dems just need to focus on winning elections. Too many Dems/liberals/progressives didn’t feel that Clinton passed some kind of purity test and did not vote for her. That helped Trump.

          Repubs tend to be the misinformed party, yet they realized years ago that winning elections counts. A lot of Dems don’t seem to have gotten that message yet. Fifteen minutes ago I got a reply from a guy who felt he could not vote for a Dem who was not pro-choice.

          The Repub party thanks him.

    • Zippy W Pinhead

      Agreed, though there is no reason why Harris doesn’t fit that bill, and yet…

      Personally, I don’t think she has the experience to run for POTUS in 2020. But I’d love to see the party groom her (as well as others) for the future. It’s just so irritating to see the purity ponies trash her for the unforgivable crime of not being sufficiently reverential to Saint Bernard

      • catnmus

        I actually thought that about Obama in 2008. But look where that got us (before Nov 8th).

    • coozledad

      Star power.

  • The Librarian

    Thank you, Rebecca, the article you linked to was very interesting:

    “We don’t necessarily want to overthrow the system — we want the system to work for us.”

    “A revolution that includes the decimation of establishment politics risks leaving many Democratic voters in red states without any functional defense at all.”

    As the author stated so well: Sanders and followers do not own the Left. I supported Bernie and voted for Clinton. I am part of the left and I don’t have to break glass to prove it.

    • Beanz&Berryz

      And we can cope with variations in leftiness…

    • SDGeoff3

      Same here.

    • elviouslyqueer

      As one of the few Democrats in blood red Mississippi goddamn, decimating establishment politics scares the living fucking shit out of me.

      • Me not sure

        The reality of things in the south is that we need all of the help from outside that we can get. Politics in America is a bare knuckles brawl right now and anyone that will swing on your behalf should be welcome. Absolute purity is not Realpolitik.

        • coozledad

          “Purity” leaves the core of elderly black women voters out in the cold. That appears to be by design, and it should piss every hardworking Democrat off.

          • Me not sure

            Purity leaves me out there, too. First you win, then you establish control, then you elevate the stragglers. This shit takes time.

      • splashy79

        Agreed, here in Arkansas. The Feds are all that stands between women, POC, and others that are not straight white men and heavy discrimination, violence and essential slavery. States like that NEED the Feds, they are not safe for most (straight white men are in the minority when you add everyone else up).

    • Snopes Shop

      I think I do have to break glass.

      • The Librarian

        Simple: beverage of choice, sip or chug, depending on need, throw it into the fireplace. No fireplace? No problem! Chuck it as hard as you can into a (recyclable, preferably) trash can. No mess either.

  • Saxo the Grammarian

    “Are you now or ever have been a member of the Democratic Party?”

    • Msgr_MΩment

      “I’ve never been a member of an organized political party: I’m a Democrat.” – Will Rogers, PBUH

    • Spotts1701, Nothingburger Chef

      “You boys aren’t kneeling. Now, I know Rik told you to kneel, and when Rik talks, people hear it. Deaf people hear it. So what’s the difficulty?”
      “You see, ma’am, these two gentlemen already have a dictator, it’s against Mr. Sulu’s religion… and I’m a Democrat.” – Dr. Leonard McCoy, How Much For Just The Planet

  • janecita

    I’m pissed at the Democratic Party for supporting anti-choice candidates. Even fucking Bernie Sanders, seems to be OK with it, so fuck him too. That been said, Kamala Harris is awesome.

    • The Rain in Spain’s Therapist

      Bernie was the one that recommended that the Democratic Party- THAT HE’S NOT EVEN A MEMBER OF -do this.

      • janecita

        And the Democratic Party endorsed it. They are both wrong.

        • Maybe

          They may be wrong idealistically, but they are right that winning elections matters.

          And idealistically I think it is wrong to do anything at all to help a Repub win any election given that the Repub party has gone insane. Better a bad Dem than a worse Repub.

          • Claire

            Restricting reproductive rights actually kills women and girls. If a politician implements policies that in a quite literal way allow that politician to sacrifice women’s lives on the altar of his imaginary sky dude, I don’t care what letter comes after his name – he’s morally repugnant and I’m not going to help him kill my own kind.

          • Maybe

            I agree. But the party that is gung-ho on controlling women’s reproductive rights is the Repubs. Not voting for the Dem candidate just helps them.

            The Repubs just came within one vote of passing a so-called healthcare bill that would have also killed people. Every Dem in the Senate, even the conservative ones, voted against it.

            Note also that even a bad Dem provides head count and gets the Dems that much closer to controlling the House or the Senate. The party in control decides which bills will advance and get voted on. That is a huge power. If I have to vote for a bad Dem in order to give the Dems control of either the House or Senate I would do it gladly because the overall result would be much more progressive than what we have now with the Repubs controlling everything.

            So if you find a Dem morally repugnant and don’t vote for her, just remember that the Repub victor will happily do far worse. Hey, they may start another war and kill all kinds.

          • Claire

            Please get back to me on that when you find yourself with literally no political party that will stand behind your right to be treated like a human being and not like an incubator. I think you’ll find that “Both these groups will cheerfully see me die but maybe with one I’ll die a little slower” isn’t a great voting incentive for 51% of the population.

            The Democratic party leadership wants to be the Reagan-era Republican party. They want the Reagan Democrats back, conveniently forgetting that Reagan was president in 1980 and a non-trivial number of those voters are dead by now, and there is no part of their base that they won’t throw under the bus to make that happen. Which is fine, but if they’re going to do that, neither they nor you get to blame me for Republicans or third-party candidates winning; because I do not set policy for the Democratic party, and if I did, it certainly wouldn’t consist of killing off my base with back-alley abortions.

            This is women’s lives. You don’t get to just fucking toss them on the trash pile in the hopes of buying votes from half a dozen red-state fundies. That’s no more acceptable than running Democrats who want to reinstate Jim Crow laws or reverse Hodges or kill affirmative action. It is not okay to say that abortion rights are expendable because it’s just women, and what do they need rights for anyway? If the Democrats can’t figure that out, they deserve to be out of power until they do, because they’ve sacrificed everything they’re supposed to be standing for.

          • Maybe

            Hey, I’ll get back to you now. The Repub party already treats women like incubators and not human beings.

            So your theory is that by refusing to support the Dem party you can magically fix this. All your doing is helping the Repubs. They love voters like you who voluntarily self-suppress–saves them having to do it.

            Have you noticed who we have for President now? Who controls the House? Who controls the Senate? Who controls the Supreme Court? Do you think many of them are pro-choice?

            I don’t like anti-choice Dems, but I would rather get a little of what I want instead of getting none of what I want and actually regressing.

            I am not saying that contraceptive rights are expendable. I am saying that your tactic for fixing the problem doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

        • Spotts1701, Nothingburger Chef

          And they’re stupid if the don’t think the GOP’s first line of attack will be “Sure, they say they’re pro-life. But they’ll vote with baby killer Nancy Pelosi 100% of the time!”

          The personally pro-life/politically pro-choice Senators we have and had in the party (Harry Reid, Joe Biden, Tim Kaine) could weather that because they either had strong political machines, high popularity back home, or entrenched party registration advantages. Someone from a pinkish District in a red state is gonna need a lot of Party support to overcome the inherent disadvantages they would come to the table with. And that will take resources away from other candidates since the resource game is finite.

      • Jackie Jones

        Tired of the Bern.

        • sarafina

          I’m Berned out.

          • Jackie Jones

            He screwed up the Dem election, his people refused to vote for “lesser evil” due to their CONVICTIONS! Then he tells us it’s cool to support an anti-choice candidate. Fuck you, Bernie.

    • Martini Ambassador 🍸

      Yup. Anti-choice is a deal breaker. You cannot even BEGIN to call yourself progressive if you can’t respect the personal choice of how women treat their own bodies.

      • Maybe

        I understand the sentiment, but in almost every election if you don’t support the Dem then that helps the Repub. That seems like making the worst out of a bad deal.

        • Joe Beese

          When I read the Pierce article this morning, it got me wondering if there’s a difference between a pro-choice litmus test for us versus, say, a cut-taxes litmus test for them.

          And I decided there was. To my mind, pro-choice isn’t a policy issue that people can reasonably argue either side of. If we don’t have sovereignty over our own bodies, in what sense can we consider ourselves free at all?

          If being militant pro-choice is an electoral disadvantage, then so be it. It’s better to lose for the right cause than win for the wrong one.

          • Biel_ze_Bubba

            That’s how we got Trump. Just sayin’.

          • Maybe

            Idealistically I agree with you. Pragmatically I do not.

            In most elections we get two choices. It is unlikely that either candidate will be a perfect match for my beliefs. Since one of them will win, I want to support the one who is the closest fit. Pro-choice is an important issue, but it is unlikely that the Repub on the other side is pro-choice either. That being the case I want my vote to count as much as it can. Voting for neither just helps the one I like least.

            The problem with losing for the right cause is that there are consequences to losing. Trump and the Repub congress-critters just came within one vote of taking health care away from 10s of millions of people. To me that is a policy issue that I feel I must fight, even if that involves voting for a non-pro-choice Dem.

            Also note that when Repubs get elected they are very likely to try to roll back women’s rights; Dems as a party don’t do that.

            I also vote pragmatically because head count is important in Congress, even if the head involved is wrong-headed and not pro-choice. Head count determines which party controls the House and the Senate and that confers huge power. When the Dems are the minority that can’t even get a bill to a vote; the majority can block it.

            I have always been more liberal than the norm and so I never expected to get everything I want quickly. By voting for a Dem over a Repub I feel that there is a chance for some progress as opposed to Repub regression.

            What is ironic is that Repub voters seem to realize far better than many Dems that winning elections counts. They may be misinformed on many issues, but not that one.

        • Martini Ambassador 🍸

          So, I get what you are saying, and maybe this is something if and when the situation arises, I’d have to make a tough call about my vote, BUT, if there are candidates that are better and more progressively Democratic in every other way but also happen to be inflexible on allowing women control of their reproductive health, I’ve yet to find them. To me, this one issue seems a pretty solid litmus test on how a person views science,civil rights and religious freedoms. Best to primary their asses and support somebody better.

          • Vincent Ricola

            I’ve lived in red states for most of my life and have had to make this call. It is not easy or fun, I made my decision knowing that a politician that may not be pro-choice but will not go out of their way to change laws and will enact other changes that I like is much better for me than the alternative pro-life GOP options.

            I’m not saying my vote choice is the one that everyone should make or the Dems should give up on civil rights in an effort to court asshole voters or anything like that, I’m just saying that blue dogs exist and sometimes people have to pick realistic battles during elections, even if it means that you hate it because you are very pro-choice and a lifetime supporter of Planned Parenthood.

          • Maybe

            I agree that pro-choice tends to fall in line with other beliefs. I also agree that supporting somebody better is great as long as that person has a realistic chance of winning. My own pragmatic belief is to vote for the most progressive person who can win.

            Something that is often overlooked, though is that for Congress even a bad Dem provides head count, which is what determines which party controls the House and the Senate. The minority party has virtually no power and can’t even move a bill to the floor. Check out the House Republican’s Hastert Rule–it’s ugly:
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hastert_Rule

            So if I had to vote for a Blue Dog, anti-choice Dem in order to give the Dems control of the House or Senate I would do it without hesitation.

        • Mister Thibs

          Not to beleaguer the obvious, but if there’s a loud objection to “no purity tests,” it becomes kind of odd to then make this particular point “the acceptable purity test.”

          Don’t get me wrong. Anti-choice advocates are on the wrong side of sense, sensibility, and morality, but if the majority leadership positions are in the hands of the likes of Schumer and Pelosi, what’s the real risk the party runs of actually advancing anti-choice legislation?

          I come from Louisiana, and blue dog Democrats are the only kind that will hunt in that territory. A bigger tent isn’t the worst thing that could happen. At the end of the day, the party will have its platform, and if an individual Democrat can support at least 80% of those initiatives, are they really worth discarding out of hand?

          At least that could build momentum for future and continuing party power instead of the gridlock we’re enjoying from the obstructionist party trying to play at governance.

          • Maybe

            I’m not quite sure what you mean by to “the acceptable purity test.” I suggest a pragmaticy test (not a word, I know). If one of two candidates is almost certain to win, vote for the more progressive of the two. It makes no sense to help the one you like least by withholding your vote from the one you like better.

            I agree with you that a Blue Dog voting Dem 80% of the time is far better than a Repub voting with the Dems 0% of the time.

            I also have pointed out, in other posts, that even Blue Dogs have a head. Head count determines which party controls the House or the Senate and that is vital. The majority party has almost total power over what bills even come up for a vote. In the House the Repubs have the Hastert Rule that allows a minority of House members (usually the ‘Freedom Caucus’) to block bills that would pass if they were allowed a full vote. It’s ugly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hastert_Rule

            The Repubs are winning elections in which they are the minority because Repub voters seem to realize better than Dems that winning counts. I hope that Trump helps Dems to realize that we really need to win even with a less than perfect candidate.

        • catnmus

          I thought we were talking about supporting a pro-choice Dem over an anti-choice Dem in a primary. Are you saying that I should support an anti-choice Dem over a pro-choice Republican in a general election? Because that ain’t gonna happen. Or at least EXTREMELY unlikely. The chances of a pro-choice Republican being racist, homophobic, etc all the other values I cherish is less likely than an anti-choice Dem also being anti-gay at least (because it’s probably due to their “Christian” values).

      • Donkey Option

        In reading the responses from red-staters below, I have kind of an understanding. What we need is teamwork. If the only way we can get a democrat into a seat is for them to be blue-dog, and they promise that they won’t vote against pro-choice legislation or try to push through anti-choice legislation, then we need to just make sure that every pro-choice democrat that can win does. That way, the numbers in our party stay pro-choice, we keep the leadership pro-choice, and we can protect everyone. I would never want to vote for a blue dog, but I live in CT, and we don’t have those.

        What we really need to do, as soon as we have the power, is push through choice on such a fundamental level that it stops being an issue politically and goes to what it should be – a personal issue between a woman and her own health and body.

    • Thiazin Red

      It was his idea, of course he supports it. I didn’t hear anything about it until he started saying we should look past things like that.

    • Maybe

      I’m not crazy about Blue Dogs, but they serve a purpose. Head count determines which party controls the House and the Senate and that control gives the party immense power. Better a Blue Dog to help with head count than a Repub to help them win control.

      And Kamala Harris is awesome.

      So, pragmatically, I’m all for supporting the most progressive Dem who can actually win an election.

    • Bemused

      I think it depends on how that person intends to be anti-abortion. There are anti-abortion people who are not interested in making laws against abortion, they are, instead, interested in improving sex ed, birth control access, employment law, health, mental health and human services in such a way that fewer women choose abortion. If they are Operation Rescue anything goes types, nope nope nope. If they just want daycares at HS and college, no big.

      • catnmus

        “Fewer women choosing abortion” is not “zero women choosing abortion”. Because I feel like the Marines – leave no woman behind. Yes, absolutely those are all important things that you mentioned, that could really reduce the quantity of abortions. But there are some things you CANNOT change. There are actual medical, physical RISKS to being pregnant and carrying a child. And by saying that I must bear those risks just because you are providing free day care really means you think you can make my decisions for me, or that I should just abstain from sex. As you said: nope nope nope.

      • Angela

        This. Tim Kaine is, for all intents and purposes, “anti-abortion,” but he votes in favor of women’s rights. This is a huge distinction. I care much more about how they vote than what they believe.

  • Carpe Vagenda

    Well.

    Yeah.

  • Toomush_Inferesistance

    Well, at least we know where the Mercers are putting their money, recently…

  • jaspersdad

    Like it or not, variations of the left need each other in a 2 party system.

    Republicans are very aware of this and will try to exploit divisions.

    • Maybe

      Excellent point. MSNBC has reported that the Russian disinformation campaign did target Sanders supporters with anti-Clinton information and misinformation.

      • jaspersdad

        Republicans have demonstrated that they’re willing to accept anyone, from virulent racists and homophobes to social conservatives.

        Democrats are going to have to find common ground and stick to that message or I fear you will see a divided left facing a united right.

  • SayItWithWookies

    The only thing we have to prove is that we can win elections. All else is spurious nonsense at best and hindrance at worst.

    • (((fka_donnie_d)))

      Not sure any of this is about proving anything. But, I don’t entirely agree with you.

      • Maybe

        I think I do agree with a proviso about timing. Once an election is won we do need to hold our Dem winners to account. But when there are only two candidates, undermining the one you want to win makes no sense. We had way too much of that with Clinton and it helped Trump.

        • (((fka_donnie_d)))

          How shall we hold our dem winners to account after they have won the election?

          I agree that when there are only two candidates it probably makes sense to vote dem, but this notion that we shouldn’t (for instance) threaten centrists with primaries from the left sounds unproductive.

          • Maybe

            I do not disagree. I think it’s fine to primary Dem candidates you don’t like and hope you can get someone better (but who still has a chance of winning).

            What I said was that when there are only two candidates–which happens in the general election, not primary season–then I vote for the most progressive.

  • jesterpunk

    Lets get some Democrats elected so we can get control of congress then we can push them to vote how we want.

    • Maybe

      Agreed. I’m all for being able to criticize our politicians, but can we please wait to do it until after they’re elected? Progressives need to stop helping Repubs win elections. It makes no sense.

  • Claire

    I’m not sure which will ultimately prove more damaging – the re-litigation of the 2016 primaries or the party leadership’s decades-long attempts to re-litigate the 1979 election.

    Either way, I love Kamala Harris.

  • Thiazin Red

    It doesn’t matter who she is, other than not being St Bernie’s chosen. Remember how quickly Warren went from a woman they would totally vote for for President, because they aren’t sexist at all, to a sell out cunt because she supported Clinton? Or how Perez went from an exciting progressive who should have gotten the VP nom, to pure fucking evil because he dared to run against Sanders’ candidate for DNC chair?

    Those people will never be happy with anything other than 100% capitulation to what Sanders says.

    • elviouslyqueer

      I agreed (and still agree) with some of the things that Sanders was proposing. That being said, I think he and his followers need to sit the entire fuck down. They aren’t helping. At all.

    • Red Bird

      I don’t understand, it took 50 years for this man to make his mark as a socialist???

      • Three Finger Salute

        Bernie should have known he shot himself in the foot when he embraced that naughty word. Americans would vote for Manson before they’d elect a socialist.

        • Red Bird

          I liked him but figured out early that he did really want to win. His function is to be an agitator. Which is great but the young folks are pinning their hopes and dreams on him. He will fail them and they will have their scapegoat in the form of whoever is in charge. Weird part to me is how his followers don’t complain about conservatives as much as they do liberals. Kind of like they’re being manipulated into rejecting liberalism. Hmmmmm

          • Three Finger Salute

            If he won in 2020 he’d be 80 fucking years old. Retire already Bernie. Write manifestos or teach at Jane’s fake university or something but please, no more candidates who are a hair’s breadth away from keeling over. That was what was so fearsome about Colonel Kurtz in 2008: if he died, Doncha Know-Nuthin would be president. Thankfully, we got Obama. Unfortunately, Obama got the wrath of “real America” for PWB, an anger that boiled over and eventually led to Trump.

          • Spotts1701, Nothingburger Chef

            When Barney Frank, who was one of the most genial, go-along get-along members of the Democratic Caucus and no wilting centrist, says that Bernie Sanders is an asshole of the highest caliber you tend to listen.

        • brucej

          Hell, Americans would vote for John Wayne Gacy in his clown getup before they’d vote for a socialist. I wonder if any of the “Bernie would have totally won!!” gang have even the slightest clue of the kind of gargantuan shitgasm that would have rained down on him from the right???

    • JMP
  • MynameisBlarney

    Ooookay…
    Looks like this thread needs a chuckle break.

    https://pics.me.me/saw-the-craziest-rock-formation-aul-lmao-26068565.png

    • Thiazin Red

      Chris Rock looks so uncomfortable. Can’t blame him, I bet Kid Rock smells gross.

      • Lance Thrustwell

        He’s got Axe body spray all over ‘im.

        • Thiazin Red

          I imagine a combo of wet garbage, cheap booze and weed.

      • MynameisBlarney

        The Rock is looking all side-eye at kid rock too lol.
        Yeah, he looks like he smells like pee.

        • Thiazin Red

          Like the 6th avenue L train stop. (Seriously though, how does that station smell so gross ?)

          • Major_Major_Major

            Are you saying the 6th avenue L train stop smells like all of NYC (and to be fair, most of Boston)?

          • Thiazin Red

            Way worse, like pee, rotten garbage, death and bleach, but more so than other places. The other L train stops smell fine as far as subway stops go.

            Where I am in Manhattan it can smell nice if its not too hot out. Sometimes the breeze comes off the ocean and it smells like a proper beach city, which also picks up the lilacs in Sty Town.

          • lynchie

            On a hot day it smells like 5 week old unwashed crotch

          • Thiazin Red

            Accurate.

          • Biel_ze_Bubba

            Evidently, it’s a great place to piss if you’re homeless – maybe because you can see people coming from a block away? That, and poor ventilation, and hey, it’s The Village.

          • amrak63

            Wotta coincidence! “Unwashed Crotch” was the name of my punk band back in college!

            (OK, totes lying. I was never in a band.) ;)

          • amrak63

            IIRC, Unwashed Crotch was also Turd Nugent’s stragety (as Bugs Bunny would say) for staying out of the Army.

            Idea: Turd Nugent goes hunting Bugs Bunny and gets the same treatment Bugs dished out to Elmer Fudd. ^_^

        • Catstro

          Booze, dirty hair, and the clothes at the bottom of the hamper.

    • Lance Thrustwell

      I wonder if it dawned on them that…

      Naah.

    • Msgr_MΩment

      The one in the middle is my sedimentary favorite.

    • Red Bird

      Looks like Kid Rock was drunk/high, Chris Rock wasn’t having it, and The Rock had Chris’ back.

      • MynameisBlarney

        Chris Rock looks like Kid Rock said the stupidest shit ever uttered by anyone living or dead and is pissed because he knows the sick burn he wants to drop on Kid Rock will fall on deaf ears because he is so wasted he’ll never remember it.
        The Rock is all like, “Yeah, let’s go talk to those other, non-malodorous people over there Chris.”

        • Red Bird

          Yep.

          • MynameisBlarney

            Also, too; Kid Rock coulda just said “Mah ni**ah!” or something and THe Rock had to hold Chris Rock back, telling him he ain’t worth it.

        • JMP

          And that’s the currently leading candidate to be the next Senator from Michigan!

    • Edith Prickly

      Dwayne “Oh don’t worry Bob, we smell what you were cooking all right.”

      under his breath to Chris: “walk slowly towards the door, don’t turn your back on him…:

    • Biel_ze_Bubba

      Thank goodness nobody in Michigan would ever vote for such a complete and utter. . . oh. Right.
      Never mind.

      • Pisto75666

        On behalf of Michigan (even though I don’t live there anymore, thank Krom) we’re sorry.

  • Kathleen L.

    Brava!!!

  • Michael Smith

    Also sometimes I think we are so contrarian, any time anyone starts to get a little popular we have to find reasons to be like “Oh, well she’s not so great. Did you hear about THIS?”

    • Red Bird

      I think that’s what’s going on. Everyone has to stay on brand.

  • msanthropesmr

    Fuck off misogynistic mofos. Just fuck right off. Fucking ducking fuck.

    • Msgr_MΩment

      Mmmm. A fuck baked inside a duck that’s inside a fuck. Delish.

      • Ms.MLG on Maui

        Like a turducken, but with fucks and dicks.

        • GHERKINS OF RESTIVENESS!

          Maybe stuff a Young Turk in there too?

      • Anna Rompage

        Is that anything like a Tofucken?

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5QAjcbvbDg

        • ChiefOfStaffCaptainHowdy

          Can you combine them and made a turdfucken?

  • Msgr_MΩment

    They seem nice.

    And because vaycaying S of the M-D line, bless their hearts.

  • Serai 1

    As a public service, I post this video link. It is good for your blood pressure. Apply it liberally and often.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWVaqk4H7b0

    • Joe Beese

      A YouTube video? Obsolete tech.

      Here’s a configurable purr generator.

      https://purrli.com/

      • Biel_ze_Bubba

        But will it piss in your new running shoes?

    • Sister Suffragette

      I just noticed that I’ve been listening to this for 25 minutes, and I think my heart rate is down into the 30s. :)

  • jesterpunk

    There is also the census and redistricting in 2020 so getting some more blue states would be really helpful too so we can win elections next decade.

  • msanthropesmr

    Just a reminder
    Bernie is not a democrat.

    • The Rain in Spain’s Therapist

      Not until 2019 anyway.

    • ronbo

      But his policies ARE FDR Democratic to the core.

      Who supported: DADT, DOMA, Cuts to Welfare, privatization of healtcare, TARP trickle-down, deregulation of Banking, etc…?

      Policy, not some magic “D” is what defines a Democrat. Ready for elevating more anti-choice Democrats like Kaine? More support for outsourcing?

  • Major_Major_Major

    Sometimes, I think the D on our voter registration is for the Donner Party and not the Democratic Party.

    • Beanz&Berryz

      Same thing…

    • lynchie

      I get at least 6 requests for money a day. I only give to the candidate now not to the DNC

      • Biel_ze_Bubba

        There’s some generic Democratic Congressional whatsit that I donate to. They take the long view and put the money where it’s likely to send a GOPtard Congresscretin packing.

  • Pat_Pending

    If anyone brings up the ‘Kamala/Mnuchin connection’ on this thread take a drink.

  • PersianOregano

    I find this crap far more depressing than anything coming out of the White House.

  • coozledad

    I already had enough of the dirtbag left with our candidate for state house in ’16. Cargo shorts wearing little pigfuck racist misogynist asswhistle. Couldn’t get fucked at Central Prison during a blackout.
    The sight of a pussy would give him an asthma attack. He never saw a cookie or a bag of chips that didn’t want to get in his mouth, especially if he didn’t have to work to get them.

    He told us “his only weakness” is Dr. Pepper.

    No.No.No. He was a shivering gray/white lardpile of weak. A brimming ladle of margarine. Mayonnaise gone bad in a bloated toothpaste tube.

    I’ll be on the lookout for his kind next cycle, and I’ll make sure they get the special “chocolate chip” cookies at the Dem Headquarters.

    • Pat_Pending

      Slow clap for your rant.

    • Beanz&Berryz

      I learned some rantiness there…

    • doktorzoom

      Uh. Small thing. Please review the rules. We don’t go in for prison rape jokes here, because on some things, we really ARE just plain politically-correct fascists.

      — Dok Zoom, Yr Friendly Neighborhood Comments Moderator

      • coozledad

        I didn’t mean it as a prison rape joke so much as he is the kind of person who is utterly unlikely to generate compassion or love, even in extremis. But I fucked it up.

        I’ll be more careful. Maybe a better metaphor would have been the trenches in WWI. The lamb nobody wants to share a dugout with.

  • laineypc
  • Vincent Ricola

    I just wish my friends on the far left would understand that you elect people into office and then you pressure them to vote for the good things we all want to see happen. Y’all are trying to do it backwards and will never find a perfect candidate that can get elected by campaigning on higher taxes for the public good and free pony rides to college for every American.

    That’s not how it works. That’s not how any of this works. You are not going to change OR break the wheel, you’re just going to keep giving up Donald Trump politicians high roles in our government. Good luck pressuring them to give you single-payer and free college.

  • Red Bird

    I’m contrarian. Really. Sometimes I like to shop for groceries starting in the medicine isle in the back and work my way forward. Ooooooo…….who’s the free thinker now.

  • WiscoJoe

    I sit on the board of a local nonprofit. We spend a lot of time assessing the budget, responding to community needs, planning for the future, implementing and reviewing strategic priorities, etc. It’s time consuming. It’s tedious. It involves a lot of compromise, patience, and trial and error, and sometimes even some unsavory decisions. Without fail, at almost every board meeting some random (white male) person will stand up and demand that the board fix the specific problems he’s worried about, insist that his own half-baked plan would somehow be 100% effective, and then suggest that the only reason his own personal needs have not yet been satisfactorily met is because the board is lying or corrupt or somehow otherwise morally rotten. When we suggest that this protester join the board, or a committee, or regularly attend meetings, or help us organize or raise funds for an upcoming project, the response is always the same. We’re an inherently corrupt/stupid organization and the person couldn’t possibly sully himself by getting involved (but also we should be doing exactly what he says anyway).

    • thepoliticalcat

      I remember those glorious days of activist yoof. And no, I WASN’T the douchebag pulling purity cards.

    • elviouslyqueer

      Ah yes. The “Why should I help you help those people?” representative. I know them all too well.

    • Walter Wellstone

      I call those people children. We have a so-called president right now that fits that profile.

    • Les Appentis De la résistance

      Preach it!

    • Debbie the Unpaid Protester

      My daughter, 24-years old, and a newly-minted small town newspaper editor, has to attend all town council meetings. She has observed the same dynamic, and also, too gets yelled at over the phone by irate customers. She says the ones who are the most inappropriate are the middle-aged (or older) white male persons, “they think they’re so entitled, Mom.”

      • WiscoJoe

        I see this behavior all the time. It’s a weird mix of entitlement and insecurity. They feel entitled to control the agenda, but are also insecure that perhaps someone else out there is more qualified or effective. So they resort to the comforting thought that those in charge are only in charge because they’re corrupt, while their own relative inaction or impotence is somehow a sign that they should be ones in control.

  • kaydenpat

    Bernie Bros are no better than the alt-right imho. They’re determined to make mainstream Democrats their enemy. Cannot stand them and hope that Democrats have learned a valuable lesson which is that you don’t allow non-Democrats to run for President in our party.

    • Walter Wellstone

      They have the same simplistic view of the world. I think it stems from the fact that most haven’t had to learn to function in the real world and also because most haven’t had a job that doesn’t involve asking “Would you like some more iced tea?”

      • Carpe Vagenda

        WADR, I spent years in a job which involved asking “Would you like some more iced tea?” and you don’t keep that job unless you learn a hearty appreciation for the value of accommodating people you find offensive if it helps you with your goals.

        • Walter Wellstone

          I’m fully aware of that–I never said they were good at it.

    • The Rain in Spain’s Therapist

      This is why I keep telling them if Bernie truly wanted to start a new progressive revolution, he’d organize them into a new progressive third party. But he doesn’t want to do that. He is too set in his ways as an independent and would rather the Democratic Party take up the slack.

  • Flashman

    Kristen Gillibrand had me at “fuck.”

    • thepoliticalcat

      Me too, but I’m easy that way.

  • Maybe

    Based on how often they vote with Trump, Warren is more liberal than Sanders: https://fivethirtyeight.com/politics/

    And when Clinton was a Senator she voted with Sanders 93% of the time. I guess if she’s a corporatist then he is mostly a corporatist.

    • ChiefOfStaffCaptainHowdy

      Misspelled “narcissistic asshole blowhard”. Otherwise, yes.

      • Maybe

        It’s actually not a phrase I have a lot of occasion to spell.

        Well, not until November 2016 at any rate.

    • Cat Cafe for the Prosecution

      AND she never took bribes from the NRA

      • Maybe

        I don’t think Sanders did technically if you are referring to his vote against the Sandy Hook lawsuit. What he did was protect the profits of the gun manufacturers in his state.

        In a way this is what he is supposed to do as a Senator from Vermont. He’s supposed to help Vermont be prosperous.

        It does seem, though, that some things should transcend profit.

        When you come right down to it, though, all Congresscritters are to some extent corporate since they do vote to protect their state’s corporations. Even Warren voted to repeal the medical equipment tax in the ACA.

        • Cat Cafe for the Prosecution

          I’m referring to how he let the NRA bankroll him, after a number of failed runs for Congress, and finally won a seat thanks to them. He then expressly said “I repay my debts” in the context of voting against the Brady Bill three times, and voting for an NRA-written law that gives blanket immunity to all gun manufacturers and dealers, even bad apple dealers. The NRA written law was trying to get out ahead of a law that would stop bad apple dealers like the one whose unregulated gun got into the hands of the Washington sniper, by writing their own law that would prevent any sort of culpability for anyone in the gun business. No other American industry or business has this; if Toyota has a pattern of brake failure, you can sue them, for example. Bernie voted for that bill saying “I repay my debts.” That’s what I’m talking about. And yes, you’re absolutely right, all Congresscritters are corporate. Bernie is more than most (more than Al Franken or Adam Schiff or Kamala Harris, for example), and has done some really reprehensible, “impure” things, and what really steams me, is the endless purity pony palaver that makes him out as some sort of saint, especially the ones who denigrate and spread lies and smears about Hillary, with the disastrous result in the WH.

  • thepoliticalcat

    2033? Are you planning on a BROOD of kidlets?

  • capnkrunch
    • Biel_ze_Bubba

      Snark, or troll? Only his hairdresser knows for sure.

    • Lance Thrustwell

      Even if he’s kidding, I don’t like it.

    • Carpe Vagenda

      I’m really enjoying how the nihilist brohirrim droogs are making the case that they’re too redpilled to have to take old people who are stupid enough to try and talk about politics on the internet in a pre-post-modern and unironic way. But they do want our credit cards.

    • Vincent Ricola

      Isn’t this the guy who trolled the GOP during the election with a “I’m a Dem postal worker tearing up Donald Trump ballots” tweet? I don’t know that I’d buy in too much to his credibility, even if he adds that highly-convincing “this is real” disclaimer at the end.

      • Biel_ze_Bubba

        I’m not buying it unless he says, “Believe me.”

  • GHERKINS OF RESTIVENESS!

    I felt the Bern once, even possibly inching his “average donation size” up a little. DID YOU KNOW IT WAS $27 DOLLARS??

    Then he lost me. Fuck that guy, he can dictate how maple syrup and cheese get made in Vermont, but he ought to kindly get the fuck out of the way of California’s politicians.

    • Carpe Vagenda

      Here’s the problem I have with that: if Bernie felt strongly about not using grubby impure donations, he would have run as an independent. The only thing the Democratic party has that he has any interest in is the infrastructure built with those grubby impure donations.

      • Cat Cafe for the Prosecution

        Also, he sure was happy to take lotsa bucks from the NRA to get to congress to begin with (AND repaid them with pro-NRA votes all the way), not to mention Karl Rove’s Crossroads. He only didn’t take donations from people who work at big banks because they ain’t any big big banks in Vermont, otherwise they would have been his constituents, you know, like someone else who had normal donations from constituents, what was her name again….

    • As a fellow Californian, I co-sign this statement. Do I agree with everything Harris has done? No, but she is smart, tough, and experienced. That is what I want in a President. I have been happy that she has been responsive and I have been proud she is my senator.

      As a former supporter of Bernie during the early part of the primaries he lost me as well. I am done.
      His senior Strategist Tad Devine turns out to have worked for pro-Russian politicians and party in Ukraine and has refused to vote against Russia in anyway. So I am creeped out that I supported him at all.

      I am done with the Berners who are willing to throw the rights of women, people of color, religious minorities, the disabled, and LGBT under the bus to have this not well thought out “revolution”- no thank you.

      Don’t even get me started with Moscow Jill who gushed over Putin and cozied up with Flynn who was a foreign agent and Trumper.

  • UncleTravelingMatt

    Yeah! And what the fuck, Burger King? Why don’t you serve bulgogi beef and Cheerwine?!?

  • mr_snarkie
  • Reximus
    • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

      it’s also, you know, in the constitution.

      • NastyBossetti

        The Constitution is a well-known undemocratic farce.

    • Walter Wellstone

      They have to point out that this ugly-ass motherfucker is an attorney.

    • Thiazin Red

      Once again, I would like to maybe do a side project on whether conservatives are even capable of experiencing cognitive dissonance. I feel that it would explain so much if they can’t.

      • Biel_ze_Bubba

        Fucks Gnus must have some sort of test they put candidates through: if you can hold completely contrary views in your head at the same time, and not know that they’re contrary, you get the job.

      • ChiefOfStaffCaptainHowdy

        They would have to have cognition. The conservative mentality operates on reflex, not cognition. See, oh, it’s in Theodor Adorno somewhere. Also Julian Jaynes.

    • Major_Major_Major

      This, my fiends, is the picture that goes along with the word “noggin”. I bet this moran was a single-snapper on the ball field, also too.

    • cheetojeebus

      Hair piece jit bag says what?

    • Spotts1701, Nothingburger Chef

      Grand juries are written into the Constitution, you dipwad.

    • Biel_ze_Bubba

      By “anchor” they mean he’s only useful when tied to a rope and dropped to the bottom.
      “A good start”, as they say.

    • Nick Slaughter

      is that Sean Hannity in his attorney wig and disguise?

  • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

    well, we all know how this thread is going to end up.

    • Walter Wellstone

      I can’t wait.

    • Major_Major_Major
      • Crazt Maist Waizy

        I think, three hours later, this thread has actually gone really quite well. There’s been some great discussions involving measured criticism and honest, good faith discussion. Strange how things work out.

        • Major_Major_Major

          To be honest, I scuttled away from this one fairly early. I don’t want to waste any of my rage attacking each other. Glad folks kept it civil.

    • UncleTravelingMatt

      With the DNC Chair openly supporting the candidate who is a longtime member of the Democratic party?

      • Angela

        As opposed to the DNC chair not endorsing the guy who used the party for media attention, and then proceeded to shit all over it every time he got media attention? 😂

    • WomanInThePersistence

      And reliving the primaries is such fun!

    • The Rain in Spain’s Therapist
      • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

        actually, yeah, curly makes the same gestures i do in these threads.

  • Anna Rompage

    I brought this up earlier and didn’t get a response, so here it goes again…

    Harris spent her entire adult life working as a Deputy DA, a DA, and then AG in the state of CA. She’s been a public servant her entire life.

    If you look at her donors, there’s not on major Wall St firm that’s on the list of her top donors, so how did Harris get branded as a Wall St candidate by the uber left?

    All of her major donors are mostly affiliated with law, women’s right, entertainment, and organizations that represent elder issues.

    To me, IMHO, labeling Harris as a Wall St crony is the same stupid fucking thing as the republican trolls labeling anyone who is a dem as a communist.

    • The Rain in Spain’s Therapist

      I’m surprised they’re not complaining that she’s too old. After Clinton lost, they demanded younger candidates… Like spry Bernie!

    • Thiazin Red

      She didn’t prosecute non crimes and put people in jail. Same problem they had with Obama. Wall Street practices might be shady and not good, but they weren’t illegal.

      • mackafritz

        Besides that, last time I checked Wall St is in New York not California.

        • Carpe Vagenda

          Yeah, but then we’d have to discuss Chuck Schumer.

    • Nick Slaughter

      becuase a brogressive article in The Week about how Harris, Booker, and Deval Patrick are all bad bad democrats who should be shunned (wonder why those three?)

      • SeeTrain65

        “Wait, I know this … they’re all from the same improv group? … No, that’s not it … what is it these three have in common?”

    • As I said before, it’s because the DNC (and their finacial backers) like her and have fund-raised for her and the fundraiser in the Hamptons will now overshadow any position she has taken and any accomplishment he has achieved.

    • jcars

      I feel my eyes start glazing over every time I read “corporatist” “neolib” or “oligarchy” these days.

      • Donkey Option

        See also “centrist” for me.

      • unionthuggery

        I’ll preface this with the fact that while I preferred Sanders on policy, I never thought he could win and I pulled the lever for Clinton because I liked her too. I have liked Clinton since she was first lady. There were things about her that I found concerning, largely because I’m pro-labor and she was very weak on that (No more weaker than most Democrats though, and far better than any Republican).

        Oligarchy is precisely what we are headed toward. Citizens United helped expedite a process that’s been gradually in motion since the 1900’s. It has accelerated over the past few years as those that would most benefit have successfully used racism and religion to gin up support for their policies.

    • Angela

      There is no Wall Street “firm” on anyone’s donor list (including Hillary’s). INDIVIDUAL contributions are made by people who may work on Wall Street, and to assume that in itself is corrupt would be to assume that every single individual human being who works on Wall Street is evil. And when say, oh I don’t know, an 8-year senator from New York is running for president, he or she will likely receive contributions/donations from his or her constituents (unless they were a shit senator).

      • Anna Rompage

        Um, there are plenty of websites that show a businesses contributions towards a polical candidates campaign, and supportive PACs

        Yes, individuals can contribute, as well as businesses..

  • what, me worry?

    Oh My…

    “Wonkette mostly tries to stay out of intra-left squabbles.”

    LOL. You think the “Wonkette Center” is the Left, which is adorbs.

    “And when Jill Stein blames Democrats for Betsy DeVos, and we scream at Stein that EVERY DEMOCRAT VOTED AGAINST BETSY DEVOS WHAT IS EVEN YOUR DAMAGE, our mama gets mad at US.”

    Here’s a local NJ article about how tight DeVos and Booker were, before she became political kryptonite and he had to pretend they didn’t know each other:

    http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/02/booker_and_devos_served_together_now_he_voted_agai.html

    Booker’s actually had a lot of nice things to say, both about vouchers and Betsy DeVos, in the past:

    https://newrepublic.com/minutes/140530/conservatives-right-cory-bookers-vote-betsy-devos-hypocritical

    But sure, they all voted no on her this time, so Democrats had nothing at all to do with making Vouchers a thing. SMH.

    Booker is an easy target, but he isn’t alone. A lot of Democrats – particularly Democratic mayors in large cities, have embraced vouchers and DeVos’ extreme ideology. But all the press on DeVos is making them run for the hills.

    https://newrepublic.com/article/144003/betsy-devos-making-school-choice-toxic-democrats

    Meh. Who cares about historic partnerships with toxic people, when we can forget all that because it’s inconvenient? Amirite?

    “Therefore, we would like to state for the record that is both peachy and swell that some members of the Left are currently going after Kamala Harris, who along with Kirsten Gillibrand has been the most steadfast vote for #Resistance in the Senate, for being a centrist corporatist might-as-well-be-Republican, because she is definitely the same as Republicans, except for everything she has ever stood for and/or said with her mouth”

    So, unless Wonkette has the power to purge Harris’ words from the intertubez, you probably shouldn’t make sweeping statements like that, Rebecca, because it isn’t very liberal to object to prison reform because prisoners are such a good source of cheap labor.

    https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2017/apr/3/california-prisoners-provide-cheap-labor-fight-dangerous-wildfires/

    Of course, the very ambitious Harris quickly backed off from that strategy, probably because it’s bad optics for a woman of color to argue in favor of a slave prison population. Go figure.

    “In 2015, judges called out her office for defending convictions obtained by local prosecutors who inserted a false confession into the transcript of a police interrogation, lied under oath and withheld crucial evidence from the defense.

    Two years ago, Scott Sanders, an assistant public defender in Orange County, discovered hidden records showing that sheriff’s deputies in the local jails were placing coveted informants in cells next to inmates who were awaiting trial — and for decades maintaining a secret database about them. The district attorney’s office also appears to have repeatedly failed to disclose evidence from its own files on some informants. Defendants were convicted based on the testimony of informants whose credibility, the secret records showed, prosecutors and the police questioned, unknown to the judge and jury. One informant labeled “unreliable” helped convict a man who was executed in 1998 for a murder he insisted he did not commit. Last March, following the revelations about the database, a judge described the performance of the Orange County district attorney’s office, in the murder case before him, as “sadly deficient” and instructed Harris and her office to take over the case.

    Harris could have conducted a far-­reaching inquiry. Instead, she appealed the judge’s order on behalf of Tony Rackauckas, Orange County’s controversial district attorney, while promising a narrower criminal investigation into the case at hand.” source: NYTimes

    But, as we all know, it is both racist and sexist to attack Harris by actually pointing to her words and actions (as we know from the primary, pointing out what someone does is considered an ‘attack’ in Wonketariat circles, don’tcha know.)

    However, it isn’t racist or sexist to attack Nina Turner, because she’s a filthy Sandernista.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nina-turner-our-revolution-president-from-democrat_us_595a4413e4b0c85b96c66373

    This all seems completely consistent to me.

    • WomanInThePersistence

      Wtf?

      • jesterpunk

        Don’t feed the troll.

        • WomanInThePersistence

          This poster has never been a troll before. Thus my surprise.

          • what, me worry?

            Linking to articles that accurately document Harris’ actions as Attorney General in CA is trolling now?

            Trolling really has gone down hill.

          • Serai 1

            You’ve certainly proved that.

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            no, but misstating everything in said articles sure is.

          • Carpe Vagenda

            Yeah, s/he sort of has been for a while.

          • ahughes798

            Telling the truth isn’t trolling.

    • jesterpunk
    • ChiefOfStaffCaptainHowdy
    • Lance Thrustwell

      I don’t know why you have to adopt this troll attitude. If you have information about Harris or anyone else that you think we all might be unaware of (and you seem to), just introduce it non-confrontationally for our edification, along with any genuine concerns they raise for you.

      You’re actually close to this. Just drop the sarcastic bullshit. Doesn’t help anything.

      • what, me worry?

        This is a sarcasm site. That’s the entire Wonkette model. Have you read any of the articles?

        • Lance Thrustwell

          We shoot fish in barrels around here, mostly. If you have a case to make that involves new or overlooked info, that’s a different thing entirely. Personally, I’m glad to learn anything true about any politician or candidate.

          • what, me worry?

            You actually do a lot of hippie punching here. So, when Wonkette gets all huffy about people being mean to Kamala Harris, sometimes I drop by to remind you why some people are mean to Kamala Harris.

            Oh, and also to remind you that centrist Democrats are really mean to Nina Turner too, and she, as far as I know, never advocated keeping people in prison so the state could use them for cheap labor.

          • Lance Thrustwell

            The crucial tension that causes passions (and perhaps ill-advised snark at times) to flare about this is that the somewhat purist progressivism of someone like Turner is seen around here as being something that we can’t afford in the age of Trump, not that it’s bad in itself. But I would think you’re aware of that! You’re obviously not dumb.

          • what, me worry?

            Well, you might want to check tape on that Lance. Because the folks around here aren’t just finger-wagging at Nina. To the long time denizens of this site, Bernie Sanders is the devil who stole the crown off Hillary’s head by attacking her with mean, accurate statements regarding her past advocacies, and how closely those advocacies tie to her major donor list.

            And everyone who helped him is a demon.

            And everyone who voted for him is responsible for Trump.

            And if you didn’t like Clinton… FUCK YOU HIPPIE!! You’ve obviously been ratfucked by Russian hackers and trolls! Stupid prog tool!

            Sound about right, kids?

          • Lance Thrustwell

            There’s that attitude again! Look man, if someone, for instance, went for (or wrote in) Bernie or Stein in a county that ended up swinging for Trump by double digits… then yeah! A certain amount of annoyance at that kind of pure-or-nothing nihilism is entirely justified. And unfortunately, that’s exactly what appears to have happened in Wisconsin, for example.

            So maybe people overstate it at times, but you can’t blame people for being a little exasperated.

            EDIT: Same goes for Nader voters in Florida.

          • what, me worry?

            I like you. You’re earnest and fair.

            You must be new here.

          • Lance Thrustwell

            Not really. Just starved for debate. I love my fellow Wonkers, but it can be a little bit of an echo chamber in here sometimes.

          • what, me worry?

            OK, straight up, I don’t dislike Harris, but her record as AG is troubling, and she refuses to endorse single payer, even though I know she thinks it’s the right policy. Because, donors.

            And as I keep saying in these pages, changing your policy goals in order to get cash from donors who object to those goals is corrupt, fundamentally.

            What is the value of winning elections if you have to abandon the goals that you wanted to get elected to achieve?

          • Lance Thrustwell

            I think there’s something between total adherence to goals and utter abandonment of them. A good example is the ACA. My guess is that Obama, being a smart man, knew that single-payer is the optimal solution. But he pushed for the ACA because it sets the country on the eventual path to single payer. In other words, strategic compromise rather than moral compromise.

            The problem is, sometimes it’s hard to distinguish between the two.

          • what, me worry?

            ACA was largely written by the Heritage Foundation before Obama co-opted it. The only part of it that made it palatable, the Public Option, he abandoned before debate even began, even though Democrats had the votes to pass it.

            One could point to all the Pharma and Insurance money Obama received. Or, you could blame Leiberman, who also, coincidentally, took buckets of Pharma and health insurance money.

            Pick your poison.

          • Lance Thrustwell

            Eh, I remember it as being more of a squeaker than you seem to. He may have over-compromised a bit, but not by much. The public option might have passed initially, but I think there were justified fears it would have been too much, too soon, and would have spelled the ACA’s doom. A doom, I might point out, we just barely avoided, by one vote!

            So – timid and corrupt? Or pragmatic and prescient? I think a case can be made for either.

          • Donkey Option

            I’d prefer getting something that isn’t 100% what I want over getting nothing at all. And as I recall, that was where we were since, while Dems had majorities, they weren’t big enough majorities. Also, public opinion was very mixed, and Democrats were trying to not push completely separate from Republicans (we keep trying to work across the aisle) and not be seen as being totally partisan. It didn’t matter in the end, but I see where they were coming from. And there were some democrats who didn’t support single payer, and they wanted to push something through.

          • what, me worry?

            When we talk about what is possible or not, what I think is missing from that conversation is why something is possible or not.

            The vast majority of Democrats have embraced Single Payer as the only viable solution to our healthcare crisis. Heck, 60% of all Americans agree that the government is responsible for ensuring everyone has equitable access to quality healthcare (pew research). So, it stands to reason that Democratic politicians should be hot in the pants for some single payer. But they aren’t. Why not?

            Because, donors. Every time something like single payer gets floated, Pharma and Insurance rain money down on Congress like stripper at a bachelor party. And Congress dutifully kills it.

            Example: The California legislature just put forward a single payer bill. CA Dems have a veto-proof majority in the legislature, and a governor who has campaigned for decades on single payer. It’s a plank in their damn platform. Their leader, Rendon, is a single payer advocate. So, why did Rendon shelve the bill and kill it for this legislative year?

            Money. Pharma and Insurance money poured into Democratic coffers at a staggering rate. so, rather than opening the bill in committee and working out the finer details of how it would be implemented, he put it on a shelf.

            http://www.ibtimes.com/political-capital/democrats-help-corporate-donors-block-california-health-care-measure-progressives

            My objection is that Democrats’ own corruption should not be a valid reason Democrats can point to for why something is ‘impossible’.

          • GHERKINS OF RESTIVENESS!

            There was no funding in California’s Single Payer bill. You don’t seem to understand why that didn’t even make it to the floor. Jerry Brown would NOT have signed that bill. It was utterly incomplete.

            Are you from California? No??

            Well then, please hit the googlez and find for me all the “real” reasons for it’s failure!

          • what, me worry?

            The reason Dems provided was that it was incomplete. A proposition would need to be put on the next ballot to repeal or modify the proposition that permanently allocates 60% of CA revenue to the school system, because Californians are all mental patients, and the Proposition system is a chaotic nightmare of what’s popular at the moment.

            That’s not a reason to kill it. It’s a reason to open it in committee and work on it, if you are dedicated to seeing single payer, as Democrats claim they are.

            I was born and raised in LA.

            Here’s an idea, and I’m not even working on it. Merge the departments and create the Department of Health, Human Services and Education. That means money for one is fungible, and can be used department wide.

          • BeverlyCrusher’sWig

            Look, the reality is we don’t have the money and there are plenty of people working on it. And just taking it from education in a time when many of the districts here are hemorrhaging kids and don’t have enough supplies or space, when we have a drastic teacher and sub shortage and also trying to stay ahead of the curve when it comes to new and best teaching methods and technologies and these are just a few issues facing teachers seems like a bad idea. I mean keeping the air on during a 108 degree day so 30 students in a classroom don’t lose their minds is a huge expense. Taking money from one place and just sticking it in another without expecting to create some more new problems is not an answer. And education isn’t even the only thing California is having trouble spending money on. We’ve suddenly become the center of science and climate change that comes with monetary responsibilities. We’re still suffering from drought and the gazillion forest fires around the state which are not cheap (on top of devastating to people’s lives). We have major infrastructure to spend money on and huge upgrades to make places earthquake safe and whole areas without internet cable. I seriously could go on but my point is I don’t think there are too many states in the union as capable of passing and implementing single payer insurance than California and yet the obstacles to paying for such a system are very real.

            And none of this is even getting into the semantics of what single payer will look like and best serve everyone.

            Also yes I agree the prop system in ca is ridiculous.

          • what, me worry?

            ” the reality is we don’t have the money and there are plenty of people working on it.”

            Single Payer healthcare has saved money everywhere it has ever been implemented, and improved the quality of healthcare across the board.

            Healthcare is cheaper, and it produces better results. And your argument is that it is too expensive to save money?

            My head just exploded.

          • GHERKINS OF RESTIVENESS!

            Look, you are not wrong about the costs and the measurable health outcomes of Single Payer.

            You want your head to explode again? I am FOR single-payer. We’re not even enemies.

            The problem is not that it’s a bad idea, or impossible. Far from it.

            The problem is in the details of figuring out how it can be implemented. It’s not a switch you just turn on. You can’t wave a wand and undo Prop 98.

            BeverlyCrusher’sWig points out that there’s a lot we have to balance out. And even you are basically admitting that California’s education system is calcified in some places (sometimes due to Propositions) and extremely unwieldy, but to suggest combining HHS budgets with it is going to make it work … better? And somehow we get Single Payer out of THAT?

            I politely decline to take this notion seriously.

          • BeverlyCrusher’sWig

            Well I’m very sorry you’re head has exploded. I do hope you’ll be ok. My argument isn’t that over time it won’t save money but that to get it started it will cost a lot of money. And you’re brilliant idea to just take said money from education, like its no big deal, is not a great idea. Yelling single payer at Californians without recognizing the obstacles to paying for it isn’t much of a plan. But you do you I guess. I mean you seemed pretty sure you could solve the problems without even trying hard so write it up. I’m sure we’d love to see what you got.

            Secondarily, this conversation hasn’t even included what single payer will look like and how it will change the landscape of healthcare in California nor how to find the money for the upgrade and creation of new infrastructure so medical care is fair across the state (which it isn’t now) and the potential influx of an already highly populated state if this whole thing is successful. Again these are only a few issues.

            I’m not against single payer. But people yelling single payer with no actual plans to get over the obstacles is not the public policy I’m looking for. And I’m firmly against just screwing over California’s kids to pay for it.

          • The point that SPHC advocates make is that it’s an investment. But it still requires startup collateral. $400 billion is a lot of seed money for something that’s only the skeleton on an idea…with no plan to raise the startup money (and for a public that’s already reflexively hostile to raising taxes. A politician is facing a recall challenge over here based on the recent gas tax.)

          • GHERKINS OF RESTIVENESS!

            “That’s not a reason to kill it.”

            You are telling me it required a Proposition to modify a Proposition, first.
            Ergo, there is groundwork needed first. If I’m not mistaken, you’re admitting it wasn’t ready yet.

            Let’s get that cart on the other side of the horse first, whaddya say?

          • Unfortunely the poor sap who had hapless task of actually explaing how policy works on that is now facing a recall effort. (Despite the fact that he actually supports SPHC…when it’s implemented correctly.) Oh and death threats and hate mail too (nope, no unhingened folks there) All for speakint on the real.

            For example, let’s go back and examie the headlies that greeted the passage of SPHC in the state congress :

            http://www.latimes.com/politics/essential/la-pol-ca-essential-politics-updates-single-payer-healthcare-plan-advances-1496361965-htmlstory.html

            Note where the emphasis lies. And note that it’s acknowledged (including by bill-sponsor, state Sen. Lara) that that was a bare-bones unfinished deal thrown together as a desperate stopgate against the then-urgent threat of Trumpcare. When Ricardo Lara himself admitted that he had no plan to pay for the 400 bill, i knew that this thing was gonna be dead in any case.

          • tomamitai

            It’s a lot more complicated than that:

            There are problems other than the fact that the bill did not include a specific funding mechanism. The biggest hurdle may be Proposition 98, a complicated California funding law that requires that around 40 percent of the state’s budget go to schools. This means that a huge portion of any increase in the state budget would have to go to education, so legislators would have to come up with almost double the money to cover the single-payer plan. To get around this, voters would have to first pass a ballot initiative.

          • what, me worry?

            Without even working too hard, here you go…

            Combine the departments to create the department of Health, Human Services and Education. It even has a nice ring to it. Now fund single payer. It’s going to education now. Problem solved.

            And I can figure that out, because I don’t have wads of Pharma and Insurance cash stuffed in my ears.

          • tomamitai

            And that will repeal Prop 98 how? Or are you saying it will make an end run around it?

          • Angela

            Just because a party has a majority does not mean they can do whatever they want. Public opinion is a huge factor, considering the public elects them. The ACA was LARGELY unpopular after it passed. Protests across the country sprang up and the Tea Party used it to get elected, as did other Republicans. Nancy Pelosi convinced enough Democrats that voting for the ACA was worth losing their jobs, and many of them DID lose their jobs. And that was the ACA without a public option, much less a single-payer bill. This is like people today saying “He/she was against gay marriage and only recently came around!” Yeah. Just like the majority of the country, who were about 30-35% FOR gay marriage in the 90s. Just because progress has been made doesn’t mean it’s easy or it can be done all at once. It has NEVER worked like that, and it NEVER will.

          • sarafina

            No, the Heritage Foundation plan was not the ACA. Go read Lawyers Guns and Money for some facts. It was just last week.

          • Corey Yates

            Before Obamacare I was permanently locked out of the mental health care that I so desperately needed. Since 2014, I have lived a good life of unprecedented stability.

            To say there was nothing good about Obamacare means ignoring millions of very real people.

          • what, me worry?

            I am done with shills for the status quo responding to what they want my comments to say, instead of what I actually said.

            Find anywhere in my comment history in which I opined that there is nothing good about the ACA. Is it better that a completely unregulated health insurance system? Of course it is. But that is a pretty low bar to set.

            Yes, I prefer weak regulation to no regulation. That doesn’t make it good law. Ask any of the 29 million people the law left behind, who still have no quality health care access.

          • Corey Yates

            Your comment said the only good thing about the ACA was the public option but that was taken out.

          • what, me worry?

            You have a reading comprehension problem. I said the thing that made it palatable. Good appeared nowhere.

            Let’s put it this way… In a world that had no traffic laws, a law that required speeds under 150mph is better than nothing. But you’d be hard pressed to call it good.

            The ACA is better than nothing. It helps some people. Apparently, it helped you. Congratulations. It leaves 29 million people still with no access. That isn’t good.

          • Corey Yates

            Thank you so much for kneecapping every democrat who wants to keep essential health benefits because they don’t want to dash into the future tomorrow. Your tone sucks. You are clearly not a nice person and are not invested in the lives of people around you.

            If you are not trying to slowly make the world around you a better plan one win at a time…. Why the F are you a democrat and why should all of the rest of us come and follow you?

          • what, me worry?

            Gee, I’m really sorry you don’t like my tone. Perhaps my tone is informed by the dozens of replies I’ve received from regular posters here telling me to “go fuck myself”.

            The amount of smug abuse that establishment centrists heap on anyone with a dissenting opinion from the Left leave them in an odd position to be complaining about tone.

            You may not like us, but centrists need the left. You need our passion and our idealism. You need our focus on the end goals that all Democrats share. Things like single payer.

            Because without that focus, centrists tend to embark on a 1000 mile journey, leave their driveway, get to the end of their block, and think they’ve arrived. The ACA isn’t the end goal. It never was.

            Shitting on the end goal of single payer in order to try and fix up the first stop you made is why progressives scratch our heads and wonder if you even remember what we’re all trying to do.

          • Serai 1
          • The amount of smug abuse that establishment centrists heap on anyone with a dissenting opinion from the Left leave them in an odd position to be complaining about tone.

            Probably because you only come around here to heap on everyone with smug abuse.
            Then latch on to anyone who tries to speak to you intelligibly and get them to go see? SEE? IT IS SO ECHO IN HERE I AM RIGHT.
            No one is shitting on the end goal of single payer. Talk about putting words in people’s mouths. You are a ratfucking asshole, flat out.

          • what, me worry?

            I encourage you to go back and read what I’ve written, and then read the juvenile insults that came back as reply.

            You may not like my opinion. You may not agree with it. You may not like the fact that I disagree with a lot of you here. But are you seriously suggesting that, “Nuh Uh!! You did it first!”?

            Read what I just wrote to you. Did I insult you? Call you names? Or did I convey an actual thought, albeit perhaps a thought you didn’t like?And your reply is to call me a ‘ratfucking asshole’. Because you’re 12, and to a 12 year old, that’s a sick burn?

            Honestly, are the bunch of you in 7th grade?

          • You came in here calling everyone a shill and how they are not real progressives. So your high horse died.

          • what, me worry?

            Yes, Jen. When I point out that defending the Democratic practice of selling off policy goals isn’t progressive, that’s totally the same thing as calling someone a ‘ratfucking asshole’. I can’t hear any difference at all.

          • Serai 1

            …says the guy who clings to bullshit talking points and refuses to listen to anyone else. Yeah, you’re definitely the guy who knows everything.

          • Serai 1
          • Such a filthy CMW comment

            See, people don’t accept you because you name-call anyone not subscribing to your particular brand of far left as ‘centrists.’ And they never will, it seems.

          • what, me worry?

            Do I? Show me. Are you saying ‘centrist’ is name calling? Is it worse than ‘ratfucking asshole’? Cuz that seems pretty bad.

          • Such a filthy CMW comment

            Oh for the love of… You came in here attacking everyone here including the Wonkette writers and insulting them and no true Scotsmanning them, and then you expect and demand everyone be civil to you. Fuck that, alt right troll. No one needs to be polite to you since you came here looking for trouble- grow up and take responsibility for your own actions, instead of expecting respect when you give us NONE. You’re demanding what you’ve determined we don’t deserve from you for the crime of… nothing.

          • Snopes Shop

            Why don’t you do something about it then? What is your plan going forward?

          • Corey Yates

            If I ever see a plan from the fake Bro “left” that was any deeper than destroying democrats I might start respecting their contribution

          • what, me worry?

            I’m working very hard on it. I advocate, protest, phone bank and even door to door evangelizing nearer to elections. But weirdly, a bunch of people who claim to support it in the Democratic Party, keep shitting all over it.

            It’s as if their financing depended upon it, or something.

          • Serai 1
          • Serai 1
          • Serai 1
          • Serai 1

            See, this is why so many of us hate you supposed “progressives”. You refuse to LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE WHOSE LIVES ARE AT STAKE. All you do is whine about how everyone in the fucking world should agree with your little whiny whines.

          • coastal_66

            you’re still talking in vague platitudes that have nothing to do with the reality of lives, and the pragmatists who actually do shit that’s doable to make progress. you know progress, right? as in PROGRESSive? so, yeah, basically, f u for continuing to be willing to throw people under the bus for ideological purity fantasies.

          • Snopes Shop

            ditto

          • Marceline

            Thank you for saying this. One of the reasons I fought like hell for Hillary was her mental health care plan. I’m a depressive with a schizophrenic sibling. When I read her plan to address mental health I cried. I actually broke down in tears because it felt like she looked at the things that have kept me awake at night for years and said, “Let me see what I can do to help.” No candidate ever gave more thought to the issue and that includes Barack (who did a lot to address the issue. I’m not discounting that.) But Hillary had a detailed plan that included housing and jobs and police training and brain mapping.

            Bernie had nothing except talking points about single payer.

          • Corey Yates

            I’m bipolar 2 with ADHD. I think that in all of Hillary’s plans that she looked at the actual problems and barriers and created do-able plans to make it better.

          • Serai 1

            I was unable to go to the doctor for 20 years. I’ll never be able to thank Obama enough for the ACA. People who whine about it have no idea what they’re yammering about.

          • Serai 1
          • vega60

            They did NOT have the votes. Obama wanted a public option, Lieberman said no.

          • what, me worry?

            Lieberman is from CT, which is the home of several huge health insurance companies. Leiberman’s largest donor segment, by far, is insurance. So, gee… He steadfastly voted against competition to his largest donors. And you are using that as a reason for why the Democratic Party isn’t corrupted by donors who don’t actually agree with Democratic agenda?

          • vega60

            It’s almost as if Joe Lieberman was always on the fringe of the Democrats an has left the party in the meantime. Imagine that? What should Obama have done differently with regards to JL in the ACA process? He can’t shoot the guy…

          • what, me worry?

            You may choose to ignore the corruptive influence of taking large sums of money from people who openly oppose your party’s policies. But when you defend that activity in public, it make you look a little… Shilly.

            It is readily apparent that when a corporate interest decides they want to blunt any opposition to their profit-taking at the expense of workers or consumers or the environment or the economy, they have learned to throw large checks at Democrats, who dutifully find some way to justify it to themselves, and drop any principled objections.

            The difference between those who align with the left and those who align with the center of the party is that the center will come to places like this and pretend that isn’t an issue.

          • sgt. jmk of the résistance

            That’s odd… it was ok when Bernie did it with guns and the F-35…

            Weeeeird.

          • what, me worry?

            It’s odd until you realize that Bernie felt no obligation to the NRA when he voted for the assault weapons ban, and that while he lobbied for jobs in his state, he didn’t take a dime from Lockheed.

            Because, unlike most, it isn’t about Bernie.

          • sgt. jmk of the résistance

            Oh yes, it’s always different because reasons in Bernieland.

            I forgot.

          • what, me worry?

            Yes, actually. It is better to maintain your principled independence than to be obligated to vote in favor of your benefactors’ interests. Not because ‘reasons’, but because the donors aren’t your constituents. The voters are.

            Unfortunately, most of your party has forgotten as well.

          • Such a filthy CMW comment

            Good, so you admit it isn’t your party. So go away and start your own party- oh, I forgot, Bernie doesn’t want to be in your party.

          • sgt. jmk of the résistance

            No, it’s better to do what you CAN to make things better NOW for vulnerable people instead of gambling with other people’s lives.

            Only fanatics and dictators put the purity of an idea over the lives, health, safety, and well-being of real human beings.

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            we hate lieberman – which I’ve said before.

            But you’re a big fan of straw, so, whatevs.

          • WomanInThePersistence

            I would love to see single-payer. And the chance of it happening right now is nil it does not exist. And changing your policy goals to align with reality is not actually a sign of corruption.

          • what, me worry?

            It’s sad that the community here is so afraid of dissent that they report as spam any opinion with which they disagree.

            Lance, this is why Wonkette is an echo chamber, FYI.

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            then why do you keep coming back, go away?

            (and you’re wrong AGAIN as the dissenting opinions on this page show).

          • what, me worry?

            I can’t… I’m obsessed with you. I need to understand why you’re such an immature toad.

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            thanks for the ad hom!

            One a day keeps me knowing you’re a freshman with more opinions than brains. (see, that’s an insult and a critique, so not an ad hom).

          • WomanInThePersistence

            This is so weird. I’ve never thought of this person as a troll before.

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            ?? Really?
            get into ANY conversation about dems, bernie, and elections and it inevitably goes this way. I have tussled with him and wasted FAR too much time and energy.

          • WomanInThePersistence

            The blocking thingie is your friend.

          • Serai 1

            Oh, come on! What fun is that??

          • Penny Dreadful Says Cats

            This is why you get reported.

          • Serai 1
          • cleos_mom

            FGS, you two just get a room and be done with it.

          • Serai 1
          • 73angelD

            Pot meet kettle.

          • Serai 1
          • tomamitai
          • Susan Forman

            “she refuses to endorse single payer,” The minority party doesn’t pass shit. Grow up.

          • Corey Yates

            There are actually a lot of kinks about “single payer” that have to be worked out and using snark and hate doesn’t move that forward. If you raise the taxes of the people who have employer insurance now to pay for single payer care you could end up with a situation where there employers pocket the difference so they will have a functionally smaller income and really uncomfortable transition to people with low to middle income wages with benefits.
            An idea like subsidized medicaid buy in or the Americare plan (where we take medicaid and ship and the federal benefit system and merge them together into an “Americare plan” that employers can buy into if they pay 80 percent of the premium would be a much more realistic transition.

            We should be able to make these points without being called corporate shills. I might be a Hillary voter and middle aged white woman but I am also a Berkeley grad who never for one day worked for a major corporation. I go out of my way to spend money in no evil ways. But I make one point about transitioning unions to the 21rst century or the centrality of abortion to my economic freedom I get shut down in the rudest ways.

            We are only asking that you act more generously to your would be allies.

          • what, me worry?

            Actually, no, there are no kinks about single payer that are actual impediments to implementation.

            Actually I take that back. There is one. The millions of dollars that Pharma and insurance companies spend to bribe public officials to tell you there are big impediments to making single payer into reality. Other than that, there are pretty simple solutions.

            The so-called impediment you bring up is how to transition people from corporate plans to single payer. It’s called pro-rating. If your plans open enrollment is in October, for example, then you’re on that plan until October, then switch to single payer. You are issued a start date. You pro-rate your healthcare tax costs to cover the last 3 months of that year.

            Problem solved.

          • Penny Dreadful Says Cats

            Sounds completely wrong, actually.

          • what, me worry?

            Yeah. I think so too. But that’s your little community for you!

          • ahughes798

            Why don’t Dems vet their prospective candidates more thoroughly?

          • what, me worry?

            It is difficult to find a candidate with any kind of ideological consistency while also taking the kind of corporate graft you need to take to be a proper Democrat in good standing.

          • ahughes798

            Or Republican, but we expect that of them. Citizen’s United needs to go, far, far away. But it won’t because it enriches the entire political establishment, and neither party wants to shut down that gravy train.

          • sgt. jmk of the résistance

            Oh, I think that the woman who was the target of the film that the Citizens United people were raising money to make was pretty fucking serious about overturning that SCOTUS decision.

          • ahughes798

            Fuck you, hippie is standard operating procedure even if you voted for Hillary, but didn’t particularly care for her very careful, right of center politics. DNC: “You voted for her, hippie, now sit down and shut your liberal trap up ’til 2020, when we’ll need you to support the next semi-liberal candidate again.”

          • sgt. jmk of the résistance

            This is a complaint made entirely of bullshit. Progressives wrote the fucking platform even though the poster-child for SOME progressives lost the primary.

            And fuck that “very careful, right of center politics” noise. She’s been liberal since she was in college.

          • ahughes798

            The Democrats have been steadily moving to the right since Reagan won, and there is no denying that. Nixon wanted a public option. President OBama wouldn’t even entertain the idea. Does “very careful centrist” work? She is certainly more liberal than Trump. She is an incremental liberal, and didn’t want to rock the boat any more than she did by simply being a female candidate for POTUS.
            I don’t know where you live, but the DNC/Hillary ignored us out here in flyover land, and I kind of resent it. For the record, we’re not all white. Lots of Mexicans, Eastern Europeans, South East Asians, African Americans, First Nations, and on. I have economic anxiety..it’s been a fixture of my life since I went out on my own, through Democratic and Republican admins. It’s been around forever, for people of all colors. I believed the DNC failed to acknowledge and propose legislational Xanax for the economic anxiety of ALL poor and lower middle class people.
            Remember her visits to MN and WI and PA before the election? I don’t. She only won Illinois because Chicago and the collar counties manage to have a population advantage over our downstate reactionaries. We didn’t see much of her here, either. I guess most of the blue wall didn’t hold. Or you have to occasionally pay attention to it, or something.

            I’m not pissed at you or anything, and I apologise for calling you covfefe cake. Ich bin ein Berliner, though. I’m real bitter about this election. It should have been won in a walk, but hindsight is 20/20.

            Trump, being the idiot he is, may swing the pendulum back for liberal Democrats.

          • sgt. jmk of the résistance

            “The Democrats have been steadily moving to the right since Reagan won, and there is no denying that.”

            There is, actually. A simple look at issues would show that, but here…

            https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/peter-roff/2015/06/24/gallup-shows-democrats-are-moving-ever-further-left

            https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/3/27/1506462/-Has-the-Democratic-Party-Moved-Left-A-Look-at-the-Last-10-Years

            “Remember her visits to MN and WI and PA before the election? I don’t.”
            Oh, I do remember her visits to MI and PA and other parts of the country and so do the numbers:
            “Days spent there since clinching nomination on June 7:
            FLORIDA: 15
            OHIO: 15
            PENNSYLVANIA: 15
            NORTH CAROLINA: 11
            NEVADA: 6
            NEW HAMPSHIRE: 4
            MICHIGAN: 4
            IOWA: 3 (+ 1 event on the Iowa/Illinois border)
            COLORADO: 3
            VIRGINIA: 2
            ARIZONA: 1
            MINNESOTA: 1
            WISCONSIN: 0
            GEORGIA: 0”

            Hmmmm…how many campaign stops did she make here in NY, her home state? How many do you see? That’s right. None. And speaking for myself, I didn’t “resent it” because I guess I’ve figured out that there’s strategy going on that stops her from making appearances where it would a) waste her time or b) hurt her.

            This “she ignored WI, MI, and PA” bull is nonsense. Yes, I know she didn’t visit Wisconsin but she had an active campaign organization there and her surrogates worked the state hard. The campaign determined that it would be better to rely on surrogates who would not run the risk of hardening her personal negatives in Wisconsin, a state she’d lost TWICE in the 2008 and 2016 primaries.

            You can argue with the strategy but to speak as if she ignored the state is bullshit.

            http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/hillary-clinton-s-wisconsin-campaign-pivots-from-persuading-voters-to/article_a76c45b5-9d38-5183-a572-3ee8a7213f4f.html

            And I also think it’s absurd to claim that her campaign “failed to acknowledge and propose legislational Xanax for the economic anxiety of ALL poor and lower middle class people.”

            She had extensive, detailed plans to address the issues facing people in “flyover country” and spoke about their needs with empathy and respect as “people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they’re just desperate for change. It doesn’t really even matter where it comes from. They don’t buy everything he [Trump] says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won’t wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they’re in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.”

            So no, my opinion holds. She isn’t “careful” and she’s not “right of center” and she’s not afraid to rock the boat, but does approach both her campaign and the issues with a practical view. She’s the student council member who knew exactly how many cupcakes had to be sold at the bake sale so the senior class could go to Great Adventure…she’s the legislator who understands ALL of the ramifications of a law before it’s enacted, and has plans to deal with ALL of it.

            You can call that “incrementalist” if you want, but I don’t see anything wrong with that. She’s a politician in that she engages in the art of the possible, and she’s a wonk at heart. She knows that the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step, and she’s going to have a detailed and well-constructed plan to get all of us the first steps and then the first ten miles and then the next ten miles while “big idea” people are still looking for their fucking shoes.

            We need both, but in the Oval Office, I’d rather have a wonk.

          • cjm69

            It is completely accurate to say that both Clintons represent center-right politics, and they have for their entire careers. They were central to the rise of the avowedly centrist DLC. And look at the first Clinton administration: it gave us NAFTA, “welfare reform,” DADT, DOMA, the Effective Death Penalty Act, the Telecommunications Act, the end of Glass-Steagall, and a whole bunch of other “triangulating” policies that were basically Republican wet dreams.

            As for Hillary in particular, her own attempt at health care reform was an incrementalist corporate kludge even more compromised than the ACA. As a senator, she voted for the Iraq invasion. At State, she was a notorious saber-rattler and completely failed to achieve a diplomatic agreement with Iran, which her successor Kerry nailed down very effectively. Through it all, she apparently never met anyone in the FIRE sector she didn’t like.

            The Clintons’ approach to leadership has always been to put a finger to the wind… “tell me where my people are going so that I can lead them.” Actually staking out a clear, bold set of principles and being outspoken about them (like, say, Sanders) has always been beyond them. That’s “liberal” only if you define liberal as milquetoast centrism… which is what it has largely come to mean, which is why the term is pretty much discredited on the left.

            And to the extent this kind of centrist thinking has taken over the Democratic Party in the last 30 years — and it mostly has — it’s hollowed out the party. They’ve lost hundreds of seats and tons of their credibility with the public.

            This is not the way forward. I’m fairly agnostic about Kamala Harris and other names being bruited about for 2020, but that’s mostly because I think the emphasis right now needs to be on 2018. When 2020 rolls around, I’ll vote for whoever is the most progressive candidate available. In the meantime, even if Harris is great and deserves support, that’s no excuse for apologetics for the Clintons, who were terrible for both their party and for progressive politics in general.

          • sgt. jmk of the résistance

            Thanks for instructing me. Since I was alive and voting during the 80s and 90s, your instruction was, however, as unnecessary as it was condescending.

            A few points…

            You are apparently unaware that Hillary Clinton is not Bill Clinton. I always laugh when people who claim to be progressive attribute HIS positions and views to HER. Very progressive indeed. HE is, and always has been, a centrist Democrat. SHE is, and always has been, a liberal bordering on progressive.

            BILL was central to the rise of the DLC. Hillary was not, other than as the supportive spouse of a governor-turned-president.

            Hillary is not responsible for the policies of the Clinton Administration, and even at the time, was widely known to oppose quite a few of them. However, as the supportive spouse of the president, it was her JOB to promote his administration and not air her disagreement in public, which she did.

            I well remember Hillary’s health care initiative, thank you, as well as the death threats she got for her championship of the idea that there should be a public option. While her commission did attempt to build on the existing system, and, in my view, wasted itself trying to please as many stakeholders as possible in an attempt to ensure a better reception, it also attempted to address the economic impact and disruption that wide-scale changes to the healthcare landscape would bring and met the firestorm of criticism head on. She also salvaged what she could after the hammering she took for the initiative and created SCHIP, covering millions of children, as well as extending care for kids aging out of foster care and for veterans with Gulf War Syndrome.

            At State, she logged over a million miles, tirelessly engaging in diplomacy around the world and to all but the most jaundiced eye, it was apparent that it was her work that brought Iran to the table, and set the conditions on which Kerry built with the agreement with Iran. She brought focus and resources to bear to support the civil and human rights of women and girls as well as the LGBTQ community.

            As Senator, she was ranked the 11th most liberal member of the Senate and voted the same way as your bold champion nearly 93% of the time…meaning that the artificial distinction you draw between her and say, Sanders exists primarily in your imagination.

          • cjm69

            I was alive and voting during those years as well. So what? Regardless of that, I figured that rather than posting a random unsupported opinion, it was worthwhile to back it up with actual historical evidence and argument. Not sure why you’d find that either unnecessary or condescending (especially the latter, since (A) I know nothing more about you than you do about me, and (B) you’re not the only potential reader).

            I have always found Hillary to be, if anything, even more conservative than Bill. It’s a tricky comparison, because they’ve never held the exact same offices, but I think a look at her speeches, positions, and votes over the years bears it out. YMMV, but really, it’s not worth arguing about, since the distance between them is hardly dramatic in any case.

            I’m happy to give her credit for SCHIP, half-measure though it was. That’s a checkmark in the plus column, but it doesn’t mean she was entitled to be president, or would’ve been a good one.

            I have never understood (and still don’t) why people recite the talking point about how many miles she logged while at State. What difference does it make? Time spent on airplanes is not a metric of effective diplomacy. I’ll give her credit for helping repair some of the damage the Bush/Cheney regime did to the reputation of the US abroad (it would be hard for her to have made it worse), but I still think Kerry accomplished more in the role overall.

            As for supporting women’s rights, LGBT rights, and human rights in general, that’s no special claim to fame. That should be a minimum entry requirement for anyone claiming to be a Democrat. On that front she did more than some but less than others… she certainly never supported equal marriage until it was politically “safe,” for instance.

            I’m not sure what Senate liberalism ranking you’re referring to, but such rankings typically have some serious interpretive limits. Most of them tend to be based on DW-NOMINATE scores, which are themselves based on roll call votes, which involve bills that have been carefully crafted to win a certain number of “yes” votes vs. “no” votes… meaning that they *obscure* the differences between senators far more than they illuminate them. Rather than votes, it’s often far more instructive to look at campaign platforms, or public statements, or committee work, or bills sponsored or co-sponsored, if you’re looking to figure out what a senator or congress member actually stands for (and prioritizes).

            FWIW, BTW, I do quite like and respect Sanders… I supported him in the primaries last year, and I think he would have won the general election had he been the nominee. But I’d hardly call him (or any candidate) “my bold champion,” and attributing such a sentiment to me so derisively comes across as a little… hmm, what’s the word?… condescending.

          • sgt. jmk of the résistance

            Well, yes, because you see, I was trying to be condescending to match your tone.

            It’s funny that you think that reference to miles was focused on the number rather than on the fact that she logged all those miles DOING ACTUAL DIPLOMACY rather than “saber-rattling.”

            But thanks for making it clear that your view of Secretary Clinton is so jaundiced as to have slipped out of reality. You lost me at “I have always found Hillary to be, if anything, even more conservative than Bill.” I don’t live in your fantasyland, but here in the real world where that comment is laughably at odds with facts.

            Please don’t bother to respond.

          • ChiefOfStaffCaptainHowdy

            Neither did Kamala Harris, butthole biter.

          • Serai 1
        • Tiny kaiju

          Being sarcastic is not the same thing as being a trouble making hoofwanking bunglecunt.

          • sarafina

            I like “hoofwanking bunglecunt” even better than orange shitgibbon. May I steal it?

          • Tiny kaiju

            I stole it from someone on Wonkette sometime last year. It should be shared liberally.

        • FlownΩver

          This extended and not-very-fun discussion pretty much proves the theme of the post, no? Purity Ponies begone!

        • ⭐️Most Accurate Poster 2017⭐️

          There’s a difference between sarcasm and soiling yourself in public.

          • (((Aron)))

            In WMW’s case, the two are synonymous.

      • Crazt Maist Waizy

        Other people seem to recall Whatmeworry having more of a nonpolitical edgelord persona, which I vaguely remembered too. He likes to claim he has ‘triggered’ everyone when he gets replied to as well.

        If he is actually a ‘progressive,’ his constant lectures and insults of Wonketters really don’t help his case.

        • Serai 1

          He’s not responsible for all this shitheadedness! HIS COUSIN HACKED HIS ACCOUNT!!!

          • Such a filthy CMW comment

            Did he say that himself?

      • ronbo

        Look to the Hamptons!

    • Nick Slaughter

      this is why Obama couldn’t keep a majority in congress or in state legislatures, cause of holier-than-thou far-left brogressives like this. congrats, you can use google and reddit to fact-check your rage, want a cookie?

      • The Rain in Spain’s Therapist

        I think he’s just a regular ole troll.

      • JMP

        Now be fair; what me worry? has made it very clear he’s a Putinite posing as a brogressive.

      • ronbo

        It had NOTHING to do with abandoning promises of sing’e-payer melting into a public option and then there was just the vapor of a false promise.

        Neoliberals are like Republicans, only thay think women should have the right to vote.

        • From Russia with Love

          Promises? You sound like a thirteen year old girl. “But Daddy, the man PROMISED!” Maybe he had his fingers crossed, sweetheart.

          This, douche nozzle, is also a right wing tell.

        • Serai 1
        • sgt. jmk of the résistance

          So you think that the public option was the hill on which the ENTIRE ACA should have died?

          You folks really do love to make the perfect the enemy of the good, don’t you?

          • ronbo

            ACA was born at the Heritage Foundation… had no price control mechanisms and has failed to cover one fifth of the nation! Don’t worrry, those 40,000,000 people aren’t DC insiders. s/

            Single-payer in England has worked for 60 years for BETTER healthcare at HALF the cost. Guess what… it’s not perfect! I like it, why don’t you?

          • sgt. jmk of the résistance

            You make a lot of baseless assumptions.

            I just have a few questions about this change you want to make to a fifth of the US economy:

            What kind of single-payer system do you envision – an expanded Medicare system, or will doctors and nurses become public employees, or do you have another model in mind? Do you envision a single tier or a two-tier system with voluntary private healthcare available at a price? If two-tier, will private healthcare be regulated?

            Because there are federal and state restrictions on what government-funded healthcare is allowed to cover, such as the Hyde amendment, how are you planning to deal with such restrictions while still providing coverage to all Americans?

            How do you plan to deal with regulations that differ from state to state, and often contradict one another without getting dragged down by constant Tenth Amendment challenges?

            Since our current healthcare landscape has grown up around an insurance-based model and is staffed accordingly, what will you do with all of the office admins, medical billers, and other ancillary staff made unemployed by the phasing out of their positions?

            Since the healthcare system in the UK and others you folks point to did not have an existing insurance industry to be converted when they went to single-payer, of course you must have a plan as to what you’ll do with all of the insurance industry personnel – clerks, data entry personnel, salespeople, managers, etc. – who will be made unemployed by this change…what is it?

            And what about the suppliers and vendors, from office supplies to cleaning services to real estate & building management services to coffee vendors to sales personnel to tech companies who make the communications and computer hardware and software on which the industry runs, impacted by the end of the US medical insurance industry…how will you deal with the loss of customers that will certainly drive some smaller vendors and suppliers into bankruptcy and will severely impact the operation of larger or more resilient firms?

            And what about the effect on things like municipal and Treasury bonds and so on in which insurance companies are major investors? Have you determined the economic impact that the elimination of medical insurance will have on those?

            And with regard to hospitals, will they be taken over by the government or will they be separate organizations paid by the government? If they are paid by the government exclusively, will hospitals run by Catholic organizations, for example, be permitted to restrict the care they provide as they currently do?

            And just generally speaking, how do you plan to navigate the First Amendment implications of partnering with religious organizations to provide health care to citizens?

            That’s just a sample of the questions that the push to single payer leaves unanswered….no current single payer idea of which I’m aware has even attempted to address any of these, and they are real and serious questions.

            Until you CAN answer them, you can keep your attempt to shame me for not supporting some magical “and then we’ll all get ponies!” idea to yourself.

          • ronbo

            Just because you are ignorant, does not mean that we are all ignorant.

            http://americablog.com/2013/10/original-1989-document-heritage-foundation-created-obamacares-individual-mandate.html

            Sorry, you choose to ignore that for 60 years Great Brittan has had single-payer that provides better quality healthcare, covers 100% of their population and cost about half as much per person.

            I can’t fix your brand of stupid. It’s self-selected.

          • sgt. jmk of the résistance

            Not a single answer to a single question – only angry invective and bullshit about the system on which the ACA was based – but I’M the one who’s “ignorant.”

            Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

            Sixty years ago, Great Britain didn’t have an insurance industry that comprised a fifth of its economy so there was no similar impact to manage.

            That’s why your idiotic blithering about it doesn’t apply.

            That you, with your profound ignorance and your rigid mind, have the crust to call anyone “stupid” just proves to me that when it comes to Dunning-Kruger…you’re the tops!!!

          • ronbo

            I gave you a link showing how the Heritage Foundation established the foundation of private for-profit mandates for the benefit of corporate and private profit on a basic healthcare tax. If you can’t be honest with this simple proof, then what value are you to the truth?

            No offense, but you seem birebart crazy. I gave the link and asserted accurately that single-payer is cheaper, better and less expensive in, for example, Great Brittan.

            I can’t fix your brand of crazy… you’ve jumped the shark. And worse, you refuse to acknowledge generally accepted facts. Briebart crazy. Spicer crazy. Approaching tRumpster nuttiness.

          • sgt. jmk of the résistance

            I asked you a series of questions, none of which were answered in your link or by you.

            You gave me a link about the origins of the ACA, a subject on which I did not need instruction, being perfectly well-aware of its origins.

            That you think that your link was in any way an adequate response to the detailed questions I asked you is ludicrous.

            That you then try to characterize me as “birebart crazy….Briebart crazy. Spicer crazy. Approaching tRumpster nuttiness” demonstrates the depth of your ignorance, inability to formulate a response, and general lack of intelligence.

          • cjm69

            No, I don’t think the ACA should have died on that hill. I think it should have been made better and *won* that hill.

            The first thing the Obama administration should have done was realize months earlier that the Republicans were not honest interlocutors and never would be, and the damn bill was going to have to be pushed through on a party-line vote in the end anyway.

            In light of that, they should have pushed it through faster and harder — and better, without all the compromises the GOP insisted on then abandoned.

            It should certainly have included a public option, and if Joe Lieberman or any other blue dog tried to extort the party over that, someone should’ve twisted his arm behind his back until he cried. That’s how LBJ would’ve done it.

            Instead, Obama wasted months on the ACA (and years in other policy domains) on attempts at “post-partisan” bullshit, all while the opposition was doing nothing but whittling away his political capital. The GOP could’ve run the table on him if they weren’t so obsessed with obstruction that they forgot how to take “yes” for an answer.

    • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

      i knew this dude would show up. Here to lecture us all, AGAIN.

      • eyelashviper

        He’s here for the cookies, don’t share any with him.

        • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

          i’m not, pulling back last time saved me a lot of time and energy.

          • Carpe Vagenda

            I’ve had him/her blocked for months on a three strikes basis. Highly recommended.

          • (((Aron)))

            Ditto.

      • what, me worry?

        You need a good lecturin’.

        • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

          thanks smug smegma stooge.

        • Zippy W Pinhead

          You need to STFU

        • fergawdssakes

          The center dems are WAY better than the evil GOP (duh!) on vital things like civil rights and climate change but their healthcare and minimum wage policies show they’re not willing to fight for what’s right. Both parties are largely controlled by the corporate state so while Harris is playing the only game in town, real progressives are working to shut the game down.

        • No, we really do not. What has booker got to do with Jill Stein or Harris? What has anything you posted have to do with the article posted here? What has I AM LEFTER THAN YOU SO THERE have to do with a fucking thing?
          You need a lecture but you’re really not worth the time. Because you suck and I bet are not even left at all.

          • JMP

            what, me worry? gave away that he’s a faker in his last round of trolling here (or the last that I saw, anyway) when he used “triggered” as a serious insult in the way that only right-wing bigots do, in addition to his constant ass-kissing of Vladimir Putin.

          • Pisto75666

            It’s like they can’t even PRETEND to hide their bigotry anymore. OTOH I don’t think they want to.They love broadcasting that shit allll around.

          • timpundit

            I think it’s Ed Schultz, frankly.

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            Bingo- just another asshole pretending to be a lefty

          • what, me worry?

            I’m sorry Jen, but who the fuck are you, and who the fuck is talking to you?

            Tell your story walkin.

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            fuck you

          • (((Aron)))

            Very well said.

          • Serai 1

            The classics are always the best.

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            she’s a regular around here that we know and like WAAAAY more than you.

            Can’t you find a daily kos thread to pollute?

          • Crazt Maist Waizy

            You really need to learn some manners, punk. If you act like that in physical space, people are going to show you what they think. You’ll learn when you are older, I’m sure.

          • HooverVilles

            Ad hominem attacks make you look, um, um, sooo intellijunt and smaaart.

          • Serai 1
          • (((Aron)))

            Hooray for ‘George in the Jungle!’

          • timpundit

            You’re kind of an asshole, aren’t you? The question is what kind.

          • what, me worry?

            Oh, look, another Clinton supporter with no argument, adding nothing to the conversation, but with insults, because that’s the go-to argument of every Clinton fan here.

            1. Someone publishes a comment critical of your corporate wing of the party.

            2. Realize you can’t refute it without coming out in favor of naked corruption.

            3. Call the poster and asshole.

            4. Yay! You win! You’re such an awesome debater!

          • timpundit

            Thank you for confirming it, but I don’t think it needed confirmation.

          • what, me worry?

            …still waiting for a cogent point.

            None? And you spent all that time to login and post to say nothing at all?

            Weird.

          • Serai 1
          • timpundit

            I am almost always logged in and, it really didn’t take me that much time to make fun of you so declare it a very efficient post.

            I refuse to get into internecine warfare this far away from any election and I also think your posts are more about YOU and your own purity fetish, and also a bit of a martyr complex.

            But, mostly this is a smartass forum for us to make dick jokes, be irrelevant make fun of arrogant douche nozzles like you, regardless of what degree they are on the political labeling spectrum, and occasionally dabble in serious politics.

          • what, me worry?

            So, you admit you have no point. I wish it made you unique here, but most of your ilk are also only interested in the same kind of superficial snark, without any content. It’s kind of appropriate, given the source.

            Your team is openly advocating the same kind of graft on display here… Just substitute R for D and Fossil Fuels for Wall St, and every one one of your DNC approved legislators have exactly the same response:

            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/gop-senator-laughs-in-womans-face-when-asked-to-stop-taking-fossil-fuel-money-rob-portman-ohio_us_5984c5fce4b08b75dcc6d74e

          • timpundit

            I admit you are a douche nozzle. Probably the King of all Douche Nozzles. So, ya got that going for you.

            Also, I’d rather shave my crotch with a rusty cheese grate thahn read something from the Liberal TMZ, thanks. I stopped regularly reading the star-fucking Huffpo long ago.

            Also, too…does Vlad pay you by the post or by the website? Asking for a Special Prosecutor friend….

          • what, me worry?

            Oh, it was sooo close, but you just missed on wonkette bingo.

            Insult people who don’t agree with you? check.

            Imply person who disagrees with you is Russian? check…

            Ah, but you missed the obligatory command for me to have anatomically impossible intercourse with myself. You missed the trifecta! You lose! You get nothing! Good day sir!

            Honestly, everyone here – those are your only three moves. How can you be so obnoxious and still so boring?

          • Calton

            >So, you admit you have no point.

            HAHAHAHAHAHA!

            This from the purity pony who has spent HOURS dodging a simple question — what the fuck would you actually DO if you ran things? — in favor of endless whinging about purges of the impure and self-declarations of their own righteousness.

          • Serai 1
          • Serai 1
          • Carpe Vagenda

            Booker is actually closer to Bernie politically, as fellow protégés of Chuck Schumer’s.

          • 73angelD

            Booker isn’t anywhere close to Sanders politically. Schumer jumped on Sander’s message of single-payer because he see’s it’s popular with voters.

          • Carpe Vagenda

            No, Schumer has been taking Bernie to big dollar donor retreats for years, and headhunted him for the Senate.

          • JMP

            Even when mainstream liberal politicians support ideas the purity ponies like, they get rejected and accused of being insincere. It’s almost like someone who looks like Cory Booker or Kamala Harris can’t win with these assholes.

          • 73angelD

            When you take $ from special interest groups and that changes your stance on public policy to benefit those groups rather than voters, you are a sell out. Calling that out isn’t the problem. Politicians being bribed is.

          • JMP

            Hillary Clinton never changed her stance on a single issue based on donations. A campaign donation is not a bribe, so you’re lying in calling that bribery. Also, it would really be stupid to nominate people who decide to unilaterally disarm and refuse to take any money from special interest groups, thereby guaranteeing losing elections. I know you dickheads want the Republican party to stay in power forever to feed your self-righteous egos, but I want to actually win.

            Also, thanks for all the immigrants getting deported thanks to you, and all the Syrian refugees murdered because they were turned away for asylum! Hell, as someone who currently only has health insurance because of the ACA, thanks for trying to help the Republicans’ attempt to murder me, you worthless fake-liberal piece of shit!

          • 73angelD

            Gotta love Elizabeth Warren. Even she called out Clinton for abandoning her constituents for “donations”, ahem bribes and changing her stance.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12mJ-U76nfg&t=169s

            “Also, thanks for all the immigrants getting deported thanks to you” -Yeah, I also twisted Pres. Obama’s arm into deporting more illegal immigrants than Bush. Fuck you and the bullshit you rode in on. Your are not the voice of the Democratic party. And even if your were, you are doing a piss poor job seeing that over 900 seats lost since 2008. We, the Democratic party don’t need any sell-out politicians.

        • Serai 1
        • ⭐️ BRAINTHRUST 5000 ⭐️

          We do? Thank Christ an opinionated low-IQ white guy got here in time!

          • what, me worry?

            Oh. Gee. Look. A new mental giant has shown up, maybe without an actual argument, but my, what terrific insults!

            You must be in Mensa. Truly.

          • ⭐️ BRAINTHRUST 5000 ⭐️

            OK sorry you couldn’t come up with a good insult.

      • Crazt Maist Waizy

        Ah, ‘lecture.’ Exactly the word I’ve been looking for to describe his current persona’s comments, but not been able to put a finger on myself.

      • HooverVilles

        Nailed it!
        Something, something elitists think they know everything something, something.

      • Pisto75666
    • GHERKINS OF RESTIVENESS!

      *heckler voice*
      YOUR DELIVERY SUCKS! YOUR DICK JOKES ARE TINY! YOU’RE NOT EVEN FUNNY!

      • what, me worry?

        LOL.

        • Serai 1
        • From Russia with Love

          The trouble with you morons is that you are arguing about which fire department is the best, while the fucking house is burning down.

          • what, me worry?

            The trouble with you lot is that you’d rather lose to Trump than have to work with progressives, and give up even one toxic donor.

          • Right. That is the trouble. Not that the GOP has more money than God and we are combating that or anything. The problem is that we won’t work with progressives.
            Except wait…we are progressives. So the REAL problem is that we won’t work with ourselves?

          • what, me worry?

            The problem you’re having, Jen, is that when you modify or abandon progressive goals in order to chase the same corporate money the Republicans accept is that, in those policies, you effectively become Republicans.

            So, in a sense, yes. You are no longer working towards your own stated goals in those areas, because people with a lot of money who are opposed to those goals are paying you not to.

            That’s how you get so one who wrote a massive piece of legislation based largely on single payer to say that single payer will never, ever come to pass. It’s how you get a Democrat in senior leadership to stump for the noxious payday lending industry. Because they pay her to do it.

            Yes, Jen. The real problem is that your leadership is accepting money to abandon the goals you share with actual progressives, and instead of objecting to that, you take to the intertubez to defend it.

          • shivaskeeper

            What’s the plan then? In detail, explain how it all gets fixed. Surely with all the complaints and lectures here about how we are not as pure as you, how we just don’t see the real problems, how you not understanding that sometimes compromise has to happen, you must have come up with a foolproof solution that works within the systems we currently have in place.

            Lay it all out for us.

          • what, me worry?

            How do you fix the abandonment of progressive policies due to Democratic leadership taking large sums of money from industries who are opposed to them? And you want complete detail? Here you go.

            Change the leadership to people with a bit more character and stop trading progressive policy – that we all agree on – for campaign cash, because it is immoral and corrupt.

            Gee. I thought that’d take longer to articulate.

          • shivaskeeper

            That’s not even an outline of how to actually do it. That is nothing but wishful thinking at this point.

            How do you make it happen within the current systems? Who do you work to replace with who? How do you get your chosen people nominated, elected, and placed where you think they will be able to achieve you currently unstated strategic goals? How do you ensure they don’t take money from sources you don’t like? What do you do if they do? Who’s definition of immoral are you using? These are just a few starting question.

            You were able to articulate your idea quickly because you didn’t articulate anything.

          • what, me worry?

            How you stop taking bribes from interests opposed to your policies, to abandon those policies. A treatise, by What, me worry?

            When an industry comes to you with a big check, and advances their position in opposition to a policy your voters favor, you tell the industry that while you’re happy to accept their check, it won’t change your policy advocacy. Your integrity isn’t for sale.

            If they pull the check back, it wasn’t a donation. It was a bribe. The Democratic Party shouldn’t be in the business of taking bribes to abandon policy.

            Now, why don’t you write us all an essay about how taking bribes to abandon the very policies you want to get elected to pursue is a good idea.

          • shivaskeeper

            You still have not answered a single question I asked. Nice attempt at deflection though. Would you care to try again?

          • what, me worry?

            You didn’t like the answer, but apologists for corruption rarely like any response regarding how to stop corruption, so that’s to be expected. I mean, you’re here defending corruption, so why would you ever accept any method of remediating it?

            Taking a bribe is a choice. Make that choice incompatible with getting elected. Stop voting for corrupt candidates.

            I understand that’s not within the corruption apologist’s thought process, but it’s pretty simple.

            Now, again. Why don’t you tell us all why corruption is such an awesome system of government?

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            apologists for corruption

            ROFL what a drama queen

          • shivaskeeper

            Nice try. I asked you some pretty basic and simple questions. You didn’t answer any of them. Instead you went off on a different tangent. I can’t even say you moved the goalposts since you never set one up in the first place.

            It’s obvious your not here to debate I’m good faith even if given the chance to.

            Here’s some free advice for you though. Having a good, or even great, idea is fine. Having a great idea all by itself with no plan on how to implement it within the systems being used is useless.

            We’re done here.

          • towhomitmayconcern

            what corruption? Bernie loosing is not corruption. Who took a bribe? What does any of this have to do with Kamala Harris being a popular senator? That’s what the others are talking about, you speak in nothing but generalities, strawmen and red herrings. You don’t have a point. you’re blindly accusing everyone of corruption now. How can you expect to be taken seriously?

          • iceweasels

            Lol! Why don’t you write us another essay describing how you can’t put forth a winning candidate outside the two party system, you have no way to fix that, and that’s somehow not your fault, or your party’s fault, or your candidate’s fault.

          • what, me worry?

            The real problem isn’t that corrupt people are corrupt – that’s to be expected – but that weasels continue to vote for and enable corruption, and will come on the internet to defend corruption, because fixing it is too hard, and makes you want to go poopy.

            Right now, corruption is a net positive for campaigns. The more money you have, it doesn’t matter where it came from or what you had to give up to get it, the more like you are to win.

            That’s on the voters. Voters have, at their disposal, all the information they need to correct that. If a candidate gets a lot of money from an industry the Party’s voters find immoral, the way Debbie Wasserman Schultz gets the bulk of her financing from the predatory payday lending industry, those voters should refuse to vote for that candidate, because that candidate is going to favor that industry.

            If voters behaved that way, Democratic politicians would find that taking money from sources who oppose Democratic principles is a net negative, and they’d quickly stop taking it, I assure you.

            For years, I’ve based my votes primarily on whether the candidate’s donor base more or less matched his or her rhetoric, and whether that rhetoric matched progressive goals.

            If you choose to continue to support candidates who sell core principled values to industries who oppose those values, I would question whether you, yourself, ever had those values in the first place.

            Are you sure you’re a liberal? Or do you just like to say you are?

          • iceweasels

            See? Can’t form a coalition. Can’t win. That’s the reality, and you have no way to address it.

          • what, me worry?

            The best and brightest the establishment of the Party could force through the ‘primary’ process lost to Donald Fucking Trump, the most ridiculous, bloviating ass-clown to have ever run for President, and you want to talk about not being able to win?

            LOL.

            I can address it. The progressive wing and the centrists all agree on the vast majority of policy goals. Democrats are in favor of single payer by 84%. In favor of real, not just imagined Wall St reform. In favor of student debt reform and public college education. In favor of a less belligerent foreign policy that doesn’t create so many terrorists….

            Except, when it comes to actually supporting candidates who advocate those goals, centrist will turn around and support the corporately approved choice that doesn’t advocate those goals – says they are too hard – and progressives will stick with our goals.

            So, here’s a thought.. instead of mocking progressives and the goals that you keep saying you share, maybe work with progressives to nominate candidates who aren’t quite so compromised? That’s called ‘forming a coalition’.

          • iceweasels

            That’s right. I’m talking about you not being able to win. Let me know when you have a solution instead of a neverending screed about how much you hate democrats, because I really don’t fucking care how much you hate them. And I sure as hell don’t think telling me about it will broaden your coalition.

          • what, me worry?

            The brain trust that lost to Donald Trump wants to tell other people how to win….

            Well, it makes sense in a weird way. Those who can’t, after all, teach.

            So, I guess your advice is to not do anything you guys did in this past election? Seems like sound council.

          • iceweasels

            Dude, who do you think you’re talking to? Do you think I am Hillary Clinton? And yes, you doing nothing would be best, since people like you ruin any chance a progressive might have.

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            The braintrust that lost to Hillary is the rightful one to tell everyone else what to do, amirite?

            and the word is counsel…

            SMH

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            Amazing ain’t it? For all that verbal diarrhea, not a single bit of constructive plan or even realistic thought- just endless whinging and the implied moral superiority that goes along with all the sniveling

          • iceweasels

            They keep telling me how Bernie Sanders is the most popular politician in the country right now. What good does that do? His supporters will make short work of that about the time they start vomiting racist crap all over every black person they can find online.

          • Jose

            Citation?

          • iceweasels

            Citation of WHAT?

          • Jose

            I would agree, you’re too far gone for Progressives to change your mind? If you don’t mind my asking, what do you do? What’s your career, I mean?

          • iceweasels

            I am a progressive you imbecile. You can’t even stop attacking people in your own movement. Let me make it clear for you. YOU and your ILK need to get the fuck out of MY movement, because you’re destroying it.

          • Jose

            We’re not giving up, and we’re not capitulating. We’re going to transform this country.

          • iceweasels

            Not without other people you’re not.

          • sweet freedom

            An essay isn’t required. If you cut through all of the self-righteous blather, it distills into a very simple command…”You must capitulate to our position.”

          • Jose

            The most qualified candidate got beaten by the orange-faced pussy grabber. How do you square that. Centrists Democrats are talking about going after the Republicans rather than have to move left to win. There is a large populist unrest. Choose to ignore economic policy at your own peril. Something has to give and it’s not going to be us. We’re prepared to go for the long haul.

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            “How do you square that. ”

            she won the popular vote despite russian interference and you guys sittin out…

            As for the rest, citation needed.

          • Jose

            What I was alluding to was how unpopular did Hillary have to be to lose to the orange-faced buffoon.

          • iceweasels

            She didn’t really lose, but it’s irrelevant. You can’t put forth a candidate who can win, and you can’t garner enough black votes. And you have NOTHING to address that problem.

          • ronbo

            She isn’t president; the EC wasn’t invented last year. Pay attention to “fly-over” states.

          • iceweasels

            I’m talking about rampant fucking voter suppression honey.

          • ronbo

            “For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.”

            How did that work out for the neoliberals?

          • coastal_66

            you sound like a parrot.

          • ronbo

            Better to repeat facts than, like you, thinking like a parrot and cooperating in undermining the Democrats in Philadelphis, Ohio Illinois and Wisconsin.

            If I push you to the left, accept that I’m tired of watching the Democratic party sink to the right.

          • coastal_66

            lol. oh, honey, you don’t push me at all. you’re not influential. but please, do show us which ‘facts’ you are repeating. what about your blather is a fact?

          • ronbo

            I secretly knew that education was your mortal enemy.

          • iceweasels

            Oh look! Another Berniebro who doesn’t listen to a single word I say and keeps pretending I’m the spokesperson for Hillary Clinton, or neoliberals, or democrats, or whoever you’ve decided doesn’t show you enough worship. SO DIFFERENT THAN ALL THE OTHER BERNIEBROS.

            Tell me all about how that’s gonna make black people vote for Bernie next time, since he also didn’t win.

          • ronbo

            A liveable wage?
            Medicare for all?
            Banking regulation?
            Fair elections?
            Infrastructure spending?

            Those bernie bots are just awful!

          • iceweasels

            Yup, they sure are. The main reason they’re so awful is they refuse to address the terrible racist and misogynist behavior of their own group. Don’t worry though. Another BernieBro recently told me the racism was fine, because those black people were shills for democrats.

          • Such a filthy CMW comment

            Ronbo, we know you’re a troll. We know. Look up thread, you never respond to anything people ask you. You never respond to specific points. You never so anything but troll here and pretend to be offering something you aren’t

            Look, I get it. I get that whatever is in your life that makes you feel you need to troll and bait people online is bad. Horrible, maybe. I get that you’re perhaps lonely, or perhaps not cared for in the right quarters. Perhaps you’re lonely and angry and that is why you lash it and bait and troll. I do get it. I understand that there are bad things behind that desire. Hear me out for a second.

            You sound pretty young. I imagine the teachers whenever you went to school, whenever that was, didn’t quite know how to proceed with you. I knew people like that. They fidgeted, they got into arguments with other students over petty things. A lot of people at the sort of age I get the impression you’re around about are like that.

            See, the thing is though, doing this isn’t helping. Trolling and baiting others does not really help you. It only seeks to distance you further from people. I’m sure you don’t really want that, although no doubt you’ll put up a barrier. Trolling isn’t a good way to spend your time, ronbo. That isn’t what you want to be doing in life.

            My advice would be to stay away from politics and throw yourself into something else. Meet new people. If you’ve ever gone really far when trolling, perhaps on Twitter, I would ask you to mention it to law enforcement or whatever. Sure, it may give you a bit of trouble, but they’ll also be able to help. Trust me, you sound pretty young and I get that trolling gives you a short term thrill. Find better ones, is my advice.

          • ronbo

            Do you truly “get it”?

            You accept that by focusing on the 1% and money in the Hamptons, Democrats further establish themselves as “elites” among the fly-over voters?

            We can’t repeat the same failed policies and methods that lose elections. Why did fly-over voters go to the obvious nitwit tRump? Think.

            Do you think that attacking me as a “troll” helps? These are real issues in the eyes of real voters. Your superior and arrogant attitude is WHY this kind of nonsense loses elections!

          • Such a filthy CMW comment

            If you read what I said, you’d know I was not attacking you. Read it through again- I think it could really help a person in your position to come to terms with such a position. I hope you get the answers you need.

          • enhancedvibes

            One of Clinton’s campaign failures was not campaigning hard in states that were heretofore Dem strongholds in a national election. However, they weren’t fly over states.

          • ronbo

            She flew over them to instead give speeches to Wall Street, parade around Hollywood and DC – collecting money and rich financiers. She didn’t even visit all those close and critical states!

            Now she is parading Harris around shopping her to the 1% elite in the Hamptons. You’d think that they would do that with voters first. It’s backwards…a recipe for another loss.

          • enhancedvibes

            You are confused, they weren’t critical states. Fly over states are not critical to a Democrat running for POTUS. Those were not the states she made a mistake in not visiting.

            As for second para, i don’t think you understand how presidential campaigning works lol.

          • ronbo

            Join us in reality where Hillary lost: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/trumps-road-to-victory/507203/

            Wisconsin, Michigan, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania (states which Hillary did fly-over) passed the presidency to tRump.

            You intend to repeat those losses?

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            well, she won the popular vote, without you purity ponies, soooooo, she’s pretty popular.

          • Jose

            Dude, she lost the election. I guess whatever helps you sleep better at night.

          • Such a filthy CMW comment

            Jose, you’re a troll. We know you’re a troll. We know, so how’s about you stop and maybe make something of your life?

          • Jose

            I would not say I am a troll. I really get no pleasure in it. I only do it because I feel it’s important to counteract the mainstream media’s propaganda. I hope that my arguing with some of these minions of the Establishment, might help a person or two to realize that they’re being lied to. And I will make something out of myself.

          • WomanInThePersistence

            We. Are. Not. Minions. How kind of you to come and enlighten us. And may you make something of yourself. Something not so fucking condescending to other people.

          • Such a filthy CMW comment

            ‘And I will make something out of myself.’

            Jose, you aren’t going to do that acting like you are. You’re a troll, and there is nothing more to say.

          • ronbo

            AIDS is far less popular than a glioblastoma. That means It’s pretty popular, huh?

          • coastal_66

            what a fucking disgusting and shitty analogy. you’re a real piece of work, aren’t you? do you know what ‘popular’ means in this context? a disease being widespread is your analogy here?

          • ronbo

            I do know that both tRump and Hillary are the two most disliked politicians in history. As unpopular as is AIDS and a glioblastoma.

            Historic unpopularity. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/americans-distaste-for-both-trump-and-clinton-is-record-breaking/

          • coastal_66

            you’re revealing yourself to be as disgusting of a slug as any tea-party extremist. please examine yourself a bit, to see if there’s anything redeemable there, before it’s too late for you.

          • ronbo

            I didn’t cause Hillary and tRump to be so unpopular. You chose her! Are you truly attacking me because I recognize a simple, common fact that Hillary is the most disliked politician in the Democratic party?

            It’s time to stop just pretending to be a superstud, and start reading! Imagine what you could be with actual information!

          • coastal_66

            isn’t it interesting that you rail against the Democratic Party, and then speak for the Democratic Party, depending on what serves your propaganda, you shit head? Simple common fact? lol. fuck you.

          • ronbo

            I rail aginst trickle-down, privatization, deregulation and outsourcing. Those who call for these failed Republican policy are not Democrats. Kansas proves your and your theories are failures. Don’t take the Democratic party down with you.

          • coastal_66

            you’re not a Democrat. Now, back to the original article, applied to your ‘railing against’ things. Show where Harris calls for trickle-down economics?

          • ronbo

            I’m a registered Democrat.

            Are you? Support Social Security? Medicare? Did you cheer when Hillary vowed, “Single-payer will never, ever come to pass”?

          • coastal_66

            oh FFS… yes, I’m a registered Dem. you answer my question first, gremlin. Where does Harris call for trickle-down economics? Or are you too stoned right now to get out of your ‘loop’ and answer?

          • ronbo

            Her first move is NOT to announce her policy positions with the voters; but rather, to work with team Clinton on securing Wall Street money – then denying it. That is a BIG red-flag.

            I guess the idea that voters are her base isn’t as important as having money as her base. They even denied attending the elite Hamptons events. Will we have to wait for Wikileaks to find the truth?

            “Despite the event being widely reported, Harris’s office claimed that the senator was not in New York this past weekend after being contacted by the Washington Free Beacon. When asked about the Hill‘s report, which quoted donors at the event, the office did not respond. They also did not respond to questions on whether the senator will be there this upcoming weekend, as is being reported.

            Didn’t we already have a bad experience with this kind of slippery identity politics? An untried, part-term Senator with limited public positions is rolled out to lead the DNC. You know, just the “liberal” who pushed Heritage Foundation mandates. The “liberal” who said, “The truth of the matter is that my policies are so mainstream that if I had set the same policies that I had back in the 1980s, I would be considered a moderate Republican.”

            Once burnt, twice shy. Twice burnt, thrice shy.

          • coastal_66

            those first two paragraphs are the earmarks of a paranoiac–meaning you. congratulations. and lay off the weed.

          • ronbo

            Do you think that your personal attacks change the facts?

            Who vowed. “Single-payer will never, ever come to pass”?

            Did you cheer?

          • coastal_66

            so that’s “yes, I’m too stoned to get out of my loop and answer properly”. Thank you.

          • ronbo

            Such personal attacks are the realm of Republicans and their associates.

            Clearly you are attacking PEOPLE, not ideas. I am not your enemy (he said smugly pointing to Social Security, Medicare, “one person, one vote” elections).

            Hate on me all you want, history will support clean open fair elections and policy. The illusion of opposing Dem and Repub parties has been revealed.

            Here is a link that, if you are truly open, will change your thinking. Let me know. https://newrepublic.com/article/137798/important-wikileaks-revelation-isnt-hillary-clinton

            Without balanced knowledge, one is just partisan. And that is a tool. Or… be a bot and reply with insults, invections and attacks. 3, 2, 1…

          • coastal_66

            you never provided any evidence of your bullshit, fucker. bye now.

          • ronbo
          • coastal_66

            do you know what a primary source is? I doubt it. also, we were talking about HARRIS! jesus christ on a cracker. dumb ass.

          • You should ice that burn

            Can you provide a link for Hillary saying “Single-payer will never, ever come to pass”? Because you keep trotting that out as if it wasn’t something you imagined.

          • WomanInThePersistence

            You sweet, optimistic soul.

          • enhancedvibes

            Random but i like your screen name. Very witty. :)

          • WomanInThePersistence

            Thank you. That’s very kind. I’m guessing you’re new here?

          • enhancedvibes

            You’re welcome. Yes, new here, I came here via another article oddly enough about how progressives need to stfu and band together, link below. Ironically, I engaged in some of Note 2 at the bottom of this essay on this thread but some of the stuff people are perpetuating is nuts lol.

            http://rudepundit.blogspot.co.uk/2017/08/your-stupid-fight-about-whos-better.html?m=1#sthash.B2VQ1XUQ.uxfs

          • ronbo

            Use google. You put the quote in and then search.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG7w3Oey3xs

            There are 2,4566,698 links to Hillary attacking single-payers. She said it on 17 campaign stops and 14 tv appearances.

            How telling!

          • You should ice that burn

            She didn’t say “single payer will never ever come to pass” She said “some theoretical better idea” without specifying, then she went on about the goal being universal health care. I remember her during the campaign, she argued that scrapping the ACA wasn’t in her mind the way to get there, which is entirely reasonable, and doesn’t cede the point to the GOP that the ACA is a bad law.

          • ronbo

            These people sitll believe Chuck Schumer was right saying ““For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.”

            No loss, no corruption, no vile action, no fact will bring these kinder, gentler Republicans back into the fold. Their blind faith in trickle-down, deregulation, privatization and outsourcing is set until they pass.

          • iceweasels

            You’re prepared to alienate everyone in your path, while refusing to address that terrible behavior of your own members. We know dude. We were all around for 2016 too.

          • ronbo

            What exactly did you learn in 2016?

          • iceweasels

            Did you learn anything? I see no sign any of you did, or are capable of such.

          • ronbo

            Yes. Hillary lost after vowing “single-payer will never, ever come to pass.”

            Single-payer is the Democrats most popular idea and running FROM popular ideas is not successful in elections.

            Schumer was wrong when he said, “For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.”

            Cheating at the DNC turned independents away from the Democratic party.

            Neoliberals will cheat, just like Republicans.

            Neoliberals lost the election; the Republicans did not win. But, by working toghether, they achieve the results that their benefactors on Wall Street sought.

          • iceweasels

            She also lost after the VRA was struck down by SCOTUS.

          • ronbo

            “For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.”

            And Chuck Schumer is our leader!

          • iceweasels

            So you admit you really don’t give a single fuck about racist voter suppression. What a shock.

          • ronbo

            What are you reading that leads you come to such a blatent and hypociritcal and inaccurate attack?

            What did the DNC do? Aren’t they the people assigned with the job and PAID to do their job?

          • iceweasels

            What am I reading? I’M READING YOUR FUCKING ATTITUDE. You know, the one displayed by your own words? That one?

          • ronbo

            Is it that obvious that the past 40 years of Democrats sinking right has made me bitter? NAFTA, DOMA, DADT, Bankster deregulation, trickle-down TARP1, Trickle-down TARP2, Fed bankster give-aways, increased spying, increased for-profit wars, increased militarization, privatizaiton of healthcare, privatization of prisons, privatization of schools….

            Who could have an attitude after all (allllllllll) that this neoliberal Democratic policy? s/

          • iceweasels

            Not addressing my points again. No solution to the problem. Telling me how much democrats suck doesn’t address it either. You can either put forth a candidate who can win, and build a diverse enough coalition to make them win, or you can’t. Everything else is just mental masturbation.

          • ronbo

            First, stop misleading. Those are neoliberals, not Democrats. Republicans are for: trickle-down, privatization, outsourcing and deregulation.

            Second, use your popular candidates, not the most despised Democrat in history… deserved or not, the vast majority of Americans are sick, Sick, SICK of the Clintons and their neoliberal policy.

            Can you understand the difference between Dems and Neoliberals? Hint: trickle-down, privatization, outsourcing and deregulation.

          • iceweasels

            And as I already noted, you and your ilk are incapable of actually addressing any of these points, have no plan to fix any of the issues going forward, and will continue to lose.

          • ronbo

            “ilk”? So are you always so arogant? Fly-over people are citizens also.

          • iceweasels

            I live in Kentucky fool.

          • ronbo

            So when you talk down to people calling names and demeaning them as “ilk” and “deplorables” and “basement dwellers”, you are using that famous Kentucky hospitatlity?

          • iceweasels

            Let’s just keep pretending you haven’t spent this entire conversation being condescending as hell. That sounds like a fun new game.

          • ronbo

            I condesend to foolish policy. I have not attacked you personally.

            Your attacks, on the other hand, don’t address policy.

            Did you cheer when Hillary vowed, “Single-payer will never, ever come to pass”? It’s a simple question.

          • iceweasels

            The “foolish policy” I never argued for? Which “foolish policy” did I propose? Or have you been arguing with a straw man this whole time, while whining continuously?

          • ronbo

            So you support candidates with a history of pushing foolish Republican policy; but, you don’t understand that means you support their policy. That is a logical disconnect.

            DADT, DOMA, deregulation, outsourcing/NAFTA, endless wars, privatization and now… running anti-abortion candidates as Democrats.

            Disconnect. Why do you hate women’s rights?

          • iceweasels

            Oh is this the first time it occurred to you to wonder which candidate I supported? Yeah that would be that condescending bad behavior I was mentioning.

          • ronbo

            Do you hate women’s rights and support anti-abortion candidates?

            Did you support trickle-down TARP 1 or TARP 2?

            Support bank deregulation?

            These are specific issues that deserve condemnation. Or do you support Republican policy?

          • iceweasels

            See what I mean? Let me know if you EVER plan to address your behavior. Otherwise you can go fuck yourself.

          • ronbo

            Those question are meant for you to recognize the disconnect between policy and candidates.

            Even a magic “D” behind a name does not an anti-choice candidate become a “Democrat”. Have you no shame supporting candidates enacting DADT, DOMA, Deregulation, privatization and endless war?

            Is there any issue or policy that someone with a “D” can say or do that you will not support? Which issue… I want to know.

          • iceweasels

            This doesn’t address your behavior.

          • ronbo

            Those who attack the left, are pulling for the right. Your comments here speak to your beliefs. Right?

          • enhancedvibes

            Clinton is not likely to run again so I’m not sure what you’re all riled up about. She is not currently in office so…

          • ronbo

            The story is about team Hillary shopping Harris around to the 1% and elite rich banksters. That’s a sign… not a good sign for Democracy. Dems do NOT need the image of another elite politician who works of, by and for the 1%. This won’t win Democrats any votes.

          • enhancedvibes

            What’re you talkin about exactly? Sometimes programs started under previous admins are continued under the next admin, i.e. charter schools, expanding executive power via spying. Every POTUD has tried to expand exec power, this is not new. We all know DOMA and DADT were bad policies but it took the changing of societal sentiment toward gay folk to turn the tide. Also, i dont think Clinton envisioned gays being pushed out of the military as a result of DADT. A lot of those people were highly trained and the military suffered. It is similar to the issue of pushing trans folk out of the military.

          • ronbo

            “What are you talking about?!? It’s obvious and printed… NAFTA, DOMA, DADT, Bankster deregulation, trickle-down TARP1, Trickle-down TARP2, Fed bankster give-aways, increased spying, increased for-profit wars, increased militarization, privatizaiton of healthcare, privatization of prisons, privatization of schools….

            Pay attention: Democrats have pushed, passed and signed truly AWFUL policy that benefits the rich at the expense of the public.

            Your education needs updating.

          • enhancedvibes

            Some of that was decades ago. Dems have come a long way since then.

          • coastal_66

            what was the DNC cheating, specifically? please cite examples.

          • ronbo

            Are you not aware that CNN fired Donna Brazile for feeding Hillary questions? DWS was forced to resign from the DNC? That the email release showed a consisten bias?

            Keep moving those lips, your brain will catch up (hopefully)

          • coastal_66

            what was the cheating by the DNC? someone being forced to resign doesn’t equate to cheating. if anything, it was buckling to shitheads like you. what cheating was revealed in the emails? specifics, please. specifics.

          • ronbo

            CNN fired Donna Brazile because she cheated. She passed confidential information to team Clinton. http://observer.com/2017/03/donna-brazile-admits-primaries-rigged-for-hillary-clinton/

            Are you going to attack Brazile for admitting to cheating?

          • enhancedvibes

            She gave the campaign the heads up on a question to be asked in a townhall setting, not a debate mind you. And the topic was Flint water crisis, an issue i assure you both campaigns were already prepping their candidates on. It was mostly a non issue though the appropriate response was removing Brazile because optics.

          • ronbo

            Yes. They cheated. It wasn’t cheating as in killing people to keep secrets; but, it’s still cheating.

            Do you tell your children that they can cheat on tests by stealing the answer sheet?

          • enhancedvibes

            False equivalence. Giving the heads up on a question that would be asked on a hot button issue literally in the news nonstop leading up to townhall is not the same as staling answer sheet. Please be serious *sigh*

          • Serai 1

            Good gods, you’re boring.

          • ronbo

            Is this a popularity contest to you? That might be why you are so bored.

          • Serai 1

            AHAHAHAHAAAAAA. This from an asshole who treats the fucking PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS as a popularity contest. Fuck you, little boy. You couldn’t figure out how the government runs with two hands and a fucking flashlight.

            “Popularity contest”. LOL. That’s rich. What an asshole.

          • ronbo

            Aww. If you only put as much effort into thinking issues through as you did posting, you might not be a total waste.

            Working against progressive Democratic policy… is that your agenda?

          • Such a filthy CMW comment

            Answer people’s questions instead of deflecting.

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            and do you have anything to suggest that this has happened?

            I mean, sure it’s happened, but you’re making this assertion:

            “The Democratic Party shouldn’t be in the business of taking bribes to abandon policy.”

            I’d like to see waht that’s based on.

          • ronbo

            Wall Steet speeches always cost $300,000.

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            also, I don’t think anyone here even remotely would support a candidate or party who “takes bribes to abandon policy.”

            THat’s pure strawman – but you see basically all non-small donor, corporate donations as bribery and we don’t.

          • ronbo

            I don’t know about the bribes; but, you might start paying attention!

            http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/345204-miami-congressman-gets-democratic-support-for-re-election-bid

          • ronbo

            Are you of the thinking that this comments section is going to provide you with a 14 point plan?

            Oh my!

          • iceweasels

            Find someone who can win. Show some leadership. Telling us democrats suck doesn’t accomplish that.

          • ronbo

            They might be talking over your head since they identify neoliberals and you equate that with Democrats.

          • iceweasels

            They aren’t talking over anyone’s head. They’re just smug morons.

          • ronbo

            Can you understand that economic policies of the past 40 years have been absolute failures? Trickle-down does NOT work – except to concentrate wealth. Deregulation is extremely dangerous – look at the banking meltdown. Privatization only skims from the public into corporate profits. Outsourcing results in economic loss – job loss – tax loss.

            Kansas is the perfect example where those policys failed spectatularly. Are all people who point out facts, “smug morons” in your world of superiority?

          • enhancedvibes

            None of those policies are supported by Democrats, not even mainstream ones. You lost me on this comment?

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            More blatant lies. It’s all they have

          • ronbo

            NAFTA, DOMA, DADT, Bankster deregulation, trickle-down TARP1, Trickle-down TARP2, Fed bankster give-aways, increased spying, increased for-profit wars, increased militarization, privatizaiton of healthcare, privatization of prisons, privatization of schools….

            Who pushed, passed and signed these?

            Which President attempted to get fast-track approval for TPP?

            Education and knowledge beats empty partisan rhetoric (rhetoric that hurts the Democratic party).

          • iceweasels

            You can’t build a coalition, so your views on those things is irrelevant.

          • ronbo

            Are you aware that “independents” are a much larger group than either “D” or “R”?

            But thank you for pissing on other peoples dreams, desires and efforts.

            “Can’t” sounds a lot like Hillary’s vow “single-payer will never, ever come to pass”. Did you cheer?

          • iceweasels

            And that doesn’t make them a coalition that will vote for your candidate. This might be a good time for you to re-read you post and ask yourself, “Am I being a completely condescending asshole? Didn’t I just accuse someone else of that?” Hey while you’re at it, you might want to try making an argument that is actually valid.

          • ronbo

            You can obviously see voters abandoning the party. Yet, you keep attacking those on the left.

            What are your intentions? Moving the party right? How has that helped Democrats? We lose good policy AND we lose elections.

            Is that your objective? Let’s grow the party with actual Democrats; filling it with Republicans has not worked the past 40 years.

            Do you support the new anti-abortion wing of the party?

          • iceweasels

            I’m not attacking the left. I’M ATTACKING YOU.

          • Serai 1

            “How do I fix that sink? Call the plumber!”

            So you don’t actually have an answer to the question.

          • ronbo

            First do no damage. Don’t elevate the most disliked Democrat in the history of the party who is proud to vow “single-payer will never ever come to pass”. Imagine what she will say in private!

          • shivaskeeper

            Who would you have “elevated” and how?

            That’s not even the outline of a plan. That’s another pipe dream with no plan.

            Name names and explain how. That’s all I’m asking.

          • ronbo

            Do you even know how to stop digging?

            A winning proposition is promoting the most popular politician in our nation. Instead, of fixing the primary for a candidate; let’s fix the primary for the voters. It’s a start.

          • shivaskeeper

            You didn’t answer the question I asked. Who would you recommend be replaced by who and how do you make it happen? I would also add that it would be nice to know why someone should be replaced, but it wasn’t part of my original question.

            Wishful thinking with no plan about how to accomplish it is useless. It’s less than useless.

            If you want to change the current system you have to understand the system and work within it to be able to effect that change.

            Standing around and screaming it is unfair is not going to accomplish anything.

          • ronbo

            Step one: stop digging the hole deeper with unpopular neoliberals.

            Were you unaware of how truly unpopular Hillary was/is throughout the nation?

            Step two: promote popular ideas and popular candidates.

            “Single-payer will never, ever come to pass.” Is THIS what you support? Did you cheer when you read that Hillary intended to “fix” Social Security on the “service-side”?

            Step one: stop digging!

          • shivaskeeper

            Answer the question asked. That strawman you are putting up is burning pretty well at this point.

            Who do you recommend to replace who and why? How do you plan on getting your chosen people not only elected, but placed in position to accomplish your unstated goals? FFS it’s your own step two. Name names. Convince me with some facts. This shouldn’t be that hard since you have it all planned out.

            So far you engaged in a strawman argument, moving goalposts, and argument in bad faith at this point. Plus the word neoliberal.

          • ronbo

            Over 80% of Democrats support single-payer healthcare.

            Who vowed “single-payer will never, ever come to pass”? Who fixed the primary? Who berated voters as “deplorables”? Who claimed that the youth vote isn’t important because they are “basement dwellers”?

            Better… there are thousands of persons who are better. As you can see from this piece, the Clinton’s don’t want better, they want Harris.

          • shivaskeeper

            Still didn’t answer the question asked.

            We’re done here. You have no desire to actually do anything other than complain and engage in magical thinking if you believe Saint Bernie would be able to pass single payer through this Congress.

          • ronbo

            Are you the Republican who swore that LBJ could NOT pass Medicare? Were you there in spirit with FDR, demoralizing the Democrats and insisting that they move right instead of into Social Security?

            PS The answer is alwlays, stop digging when you find yourself in a hole. if losing the Presidency, the Senate, the House, Govenorships, state Houses and state senates is not enough for you to re-think your positions, there is little hope for you.

          • enhancedvibes

            The primary wasn’t fixed and Clinton was only talking about a small portion of voters when she made the deplorable comment. With that said, it was still a stupid thing to say while campaigning, similar to Romney’s idiocy.

          • ronbo

            First, let’s fix the broken electoral college and corruptable voting machines.

          • Such a filthy CMW comment

            If there was not an electoral college, Hillary Clinton would have won.

            I see you’ve shot yourself in the foot here.

          • Jose

            Let’s get rid of superdelegates. Without them, Hillary would not have had the necessary number of delegates to secure the nomination.

          • enhancedvibes

            Again, she locked up her nomination by winning millions more primary votes than Sanders in states with closed primaries. TL;DR- Dems nominated her not superdelegates.

          • Jose

            I gather you didn’t watch the Democratic Convention.

          • enhancedvibes

            I watched most of it. I also read about the primaries leading up to it. Sorry to tell you, but Sanders not conceding till the convention was politics, not because he had an actual chance to be the nominee. He didn’t win enough votes period.

          • ronbo

            Are you so very, very bitter and partisan that you are unable to agree with an FDR Democrat who calls for fixing the process, the Electoral College?

            That says something about you and your rhetoric… you’d rather attack someone than agree with common solutions.

          • Such a filthy CMW comment

            What are you on about? I support getting rid of the electoral college. I was refuting something silly you said. You’re continuing to do ignore everything people say so you can rant more. I tried reaching out, I ask you to consider my advice. You’ll feel better in the long run.

          • Jose

            How about getting rid of superdelegates?

          • enhancedvibes

            Clinton and Obama did not need superdelegates to secure their nominations. I assure you, they are not the problem.

          • Jose

            How was it then that despite Bernie winning Michigan, Hillary ended up with a lot more votes from the Michigan delegation than Bernie during the Democratic Convention?. I don’t know in how many states this was the case, I just remember being surprised by this during the time.

          • enhancedvibes

            Reasons are in articles all over the interwebz and what does it matter at this point? He had NO chance of being the nominee, because he didn’t win enough primaries. She won the nomination outright by winning MILLIONS of more votes in the primaries, most of which were closed primaries, Michigan’s is not.

          • Jose

            Do you remember the coverage in mainstream media giving Hillary a 300 delegate lead because of superdelegates a month well before the Democratic Convention well before they ever cast a vote?

          • enhancedvibes

            It doesn’t matter. She won MILLIONS of more votes than Sanders in the primary. SHE DID NOT NEED SUPERDELEGATES TO SECURE THE NOMINATION. You are on the internet so this fact is searchable. Sanders holding out till the convention to concede was politics, nothing more.

          • shivaskeeper

            How? You are arguing with someone who probably agrees with 90% of what you claim to believe. So how, within the current system do we do that?

            Delegates and superdelgates are state issues, not federal. That’s why faithless delegates don’t face anything more than a state level fine if the state in question even has that rule on the books.

          • Jose

            I guess start with your own state. Write to your Democratic chairperson that superdelegates are in Democratic and should be done away with.

          • shivaskeeper

            And with that comment you have officially put more thought into your idea than mist of your brethren who showed up here.

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            didn’t vow – stated a fact. And most “disliked” democrat won the primary and the popular vote.

            Keep lying.

          • ronbo

            Can TXbots understand the definition of a “fact”? One can not document an event as “will never come to pass” logically. Time is sequential. To state INTENTIONS is done by making a committment such as, “Single-payer will never ever come to pass.”

            Gosh, didn’t you get the Strunk and White Elements of Style?

            Did you cheer when Hillary spoke her intentions?

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            WOW…that’s dumb.

            “I will never become a fighter pilot”

            and

            “I promise to never become a fighter pilot”

            are not equivalent.

            But, that’s the kind of understanding of nuance I expect from you.

          • Gayle

            You mean the woman who won the popular vote and the one who would have easily won the electoral if the Bernie or Busters stopped holding their breath until they turned blue and simply voted for her ?

            Thanks for the right wing courts and the end of clean air and water. Thanks for the rising seas and the growing dead zones all over our oceans. Thanks for a president who tells cops to Rough up suspects and deports children. We are most likely heading into war right now. Thanks again for your purity!!!!!

          • iceweasels

            Which is why you can’t form a coalition, and can’t get enough votes to win.

          • Serai 1
          • ronbo

            They are often just Republicans who vote Democratic because they support women’s rights. And that is the limit to their progressiveness. They were called Reagan Democrats… and it pisses them off to call them out on it.

          • Gayle

            Yes, god forbid anyone supports women’s rights. ( or gay rights or affirmative action or environmental rights,etc). Your Bernie Bros certainly don’t so don’t expect the rest of us to follow them!

          • Jose

            We support women’s rights, affirmative action, and environmental rights, but do you?

          • From Russia with Love

            I’ve gotten a Carter, a Clinton and an Obama elected in my lifetime. How’s your record, sport?

          • what, me worry?

            And that, in a nutshell is the problem. You got some people elected to office who were paid large sums to not pursue the goals you share with progressives, so what did you get, in the end?

            Carter’s greatest lasting legislative achievement was… nothing. He’s the best of the pseudoDemocrats you’ve helped elect.

            Then there is the Republican lite of Bill Clinton, who signed so much regressive legislation, one could be excused for not knowing Democrats were once liberals. Let’s talk welfare reform, private prisons, three-strikes laws, a policing crack down on the inner cities, support of the death penalty, DADT and DOMA, signed a NAFTA treaty that allows an unaccountable committee of corporate lawyers to nullify sovereign law, and the deregulation of Wall St that was the proximate cause of the financial disaster in 2008. Quite an impressive array of Republican conservative shibboleths.

            And Obama got a big Republican healthcare bill passed, by removing the only progressive thing in it – the public option. He Expanded the surveillance state, pursued more trade agreements designed to offshore more manufacturing jobs and nullify more US labor and environmental law, engaged in extrajudicial assassination of US Citizens with no due process, prosecuted whistleblowers with a zeal only since passed by Trump, and deported more immigrants than every other President in History, combined.

            Truly, you’ve created a remarkable legislative record of conservative achievements. It is amazing to me that you haven’t received awards from the Heritage Foundation for your efforts.

          • iceweasels

            The problem is you can’t form a coalition because of your irrational purity politics. Then you run around yelling at people for not being on your losing side. Which just makes the problem worse.

          • Serai 1
          • Zippy W Pinhead

            no, he’s an idiot

          • MonicaR62

            Carter got the Israelis and Egyptians to sign a peace treaty that has lasted to this day. I wouldn’t call that ‘nothing’.

            The Strategic Petroleum Reserve happened on his watch as well

          • Jose

            I like Jimmy. I think he was a well-intentioned man. Have you guys heard? He has come out in favor of Medicare for All. We’re gonna do it, people, the naysayers can thank us later.

          • From Russia with Love

            Blah blah blah. TL, DR, plus you are boring as well as stupid.
            You are making it way too easy on the right wing in America, but like I said to that other jerkoff a minute ago, I haven’t lived in America for 25 years so the shit you are enabling will mostly fuck over people like yourself. That part is OK with me.

          • Gayle

            Right. Good job giving us Bush and Trump. Enjoy your purity while the world burns.

          • what, me worry?

            What an idiotic comment. Maybe try nominating a candidate who isn’t completely indebted to Wall St and the Pharmaceutical Industry. Til then, enjoy the wilderness.

          • Jose

            There’s still hope then. The Millenials who are more Progressive are coming up, while you’re on your way out.

          • From Russia with Love

            You Gen Xers have managed to fuck everything else up (most importantly, your education), why not fuck up the Democratic party when we need it the most? Enjoy the right wing dictatorship that you are enabling with your bullshit. I left America (not my citizenship) in 1990, so it’s unlikely to affect me very much. You, however, are probably fucked.

          • Jose

            Nope. I’m a Millenial.

          • Gayle

            Best comment on the thread. They ruined their own futures as did the Naderite leftists. The sad thing is everyone has to pay for their childishness.

          • From Russia with Love

            You guys couldn’t organize a piss-up at a brewery.

          • ronbo

            And with all that money, you couldn’t win an election against tRump. We’ve lost the Presidency, Senate, House, Govenorships, state senates and state houses.

            What did you learn from DADT, DOMA, deregulation, privatization and trickle-down?

          • Such a filthy CMW comment

            You’ve switched from ‘you’ to ‘we.’ You can’t have both. Pick one trolling identity and stick with it.

          • Jose

            To distinguish from the Corporate apologists of course. Bernie wing of Democratic Party us; Corporatists, you; Democrats, bigger we.

          • Such a filthy CMW comment

            Not to distinguish, no. You got confused between the two different personas you’re trying to convince us of. Your persona depends on what the situation is. You got confused, and we’ve exposed it.

          • ronbo

            You attack me (your roll as part of the Republican wing of the party?); yet you can’t address the irony of Democrats pushing Reaganomics, DADT, DOMA, deregulation, privatization and trickle-down?!?

          • From Russia with Love

            I learned decades ago the we need a united Democratic Party. I’ve been voting against the Republican rot since 1972, Maybe you ding-a-lings should get on board.

          • ronbo

            I agree!

            Since we are BOTH opposed to trickle-down, endless wars, deregulation and outsourcing, I make sure to NOT vote for the Republicans/neoliberals who support, push, and sign this nonsense.

            I don’t vote for Republicans and those in the Republican wing of the Democratic party.

          • From Russia with Love

            Enjoy your utopia. I’m sure it’s just around the corner.

          • ronbo

            Are you supporting the new anti-choice politicians invited into the Democratic party? How will THAT affect the female vote? It’s NOT just around the corner, Hillary’s choice of VP is anti-abortion… and you think that is “utopia”?

          • Such a filthy CMW comment

            Ronbo, again I must point out where you are not really paying attention- Bernie supported a candidate who limited abortion access in his state. I don’t like candidates that are anti choice but criticising Democrats for supporting one without criticising Bernie for the same isn’t right.

          • Seamus Romney

            How’d it work out for the 5 candidates Bernie asshole campaigned for.
            Oh yeah, they lost.

            Fucking broflake.

          • Jose

            Are you counting Hillary? Might be six. What was the name of that guy in Alabama that the DNC blew millions of dollars in? Have you heard that the DNC has lost thousands of seats in state legislatures, governorships, and Congress under Obama.

            https://www.google.com/amp/s/fivethirtyeight.com/features/barack-obama-won-the-white-house-but-democrats-lost-the-country/amp/

          • Serai 1
          • From Russia with Love

            I sincerely doubt that you have a lock on the term “progressive,” Junior. In fact, I’d doubt that you have ever undertaken serious study of governance.

          • Kalu Victor Ude

            “Loose to Trump”

            Establishment Democrats are doing a good job of that without any outside help. Let us give credit where credit is due.

          • Gayle

            Credit the Sanders or bust idiots for the last loss.

          • Kalu Victor Ude

            Sure. Who will you blame for the next and the one after that? The problem with never learning from past mistakes is that you can’t move on. You have condemned yourself as a party to repeating failure.. Democrats will keep losing seats and scratching their heads just like they did after Ossoff’s loss. No amount of money can buy the party back into the public’s favor.

          • Seamus Romney

            You’re fucking delusional. Re-engage with reality broflake.

          • amrak63

            Yes, but I blame both them and Trump’s Chumps less than I blame the voluntary non-voters (not the people who were prevented from voting by GOP voter suppression or other factors) who just couldn’t be bothered to get off their sorry lazy asses because OMG WTF BBQ HILLARY IS SATAN THE DEMS ARE EVIL BOTH SIDES DO IT HERP DERP ARGLE BARGLE !!!1!

  • shivaskeeper

    Politics is the art of the possible, the attainable; the art of the next best.
    Otto von Bismarck

    Every potential candidate is going to have skeletons on the closet. Every single one is going to have held positions that potentially shot on one group or another at one time or another. For instance Pres Obama “evolved” on sane sex marriage after his reelection. I don’t believe that. He supported it earlier, but it was not politically possible to do anything about it.

    As voters our job is to get our candidates elected and hold their feet to the goddamned fire and ensure they represent us. To not reward them for screwing groups over to benefit other groups. To in fact keep their personal beliefs out of overall policy. To force compromise when compromise is needed.

    The art of the next best.

    • WomanInThePersistence

      It’s always so nice to hear the voice of sanity. Thank you.

      • shivaskeeper

        You know, that makes me chuckle, because o used to tell people if I was the voice of sanity, things were worse than we thought they were.

    • NastyBossetti

      Personally, I prefer insane sex marriage. But to each their own.

      • shivaskeeper

        Fixed.

        • NastyBossetti

          Aw, man! That makes it a lot harder to make a joke out of your lucid, totally valid point.

    • BMW

      For instance Pres Obama “evolved” on same sex marriage after his reelection.
      It was before.

      • shivaskeeper

        I stand corrected. However he still didn’t publicly endorse it until it was politically possible to do something about it. That took time, pressure, and work.

  • Reximus

    Also OT but “Pharma Bro” goin’ down

    https://twitter.com/AP/status/893543229748125697

    • Carpe Vagenda

      Huzzah!

      • Walter Wellstone

        Oh happy day!

        • Carpe Vagenda

          Calloo, callay!

          (chortle)

    • Lance Thrustwell

      Couldn’t happen to a nicer psychopath.

    • Yr. Gma

      Good news is nice.

    • NastyBossetti

      Does that mean he will go to jail?

      • Reximus

        Hope so, and when he does and needs an aspirin, they charge him 8000 a pill

      • mackafritz

        6 months in Club Fed.

    • eyelashviper

      Wonder how long that smug little shit eating grin will last in prison?

    • Raan

      And there was much rejoicing.

      • Werewolf

        Yay.

    • Frank Underboob

      Woohoo!

    • SeeTrain65

      You’ve smirked your last, DoucheBro.

  • TheGrandWazoo2

    Watch out Republicans, the Democrats are coming after you HARD in 2018.
    http://i.imgur.com/dQ6i7nk.gif

  • Bemused

    Kamala Harris has done well for us here in CA and I’m perfectly happy to have her as a senator (she really has been better as a pol than she was as a prosecutor.)

    As far as the two major concerns by the people who have concerns:

    1) Yep, she knows a lot of Silicon Valley types. She was a Bay Area prosecutor and a lot of her donors are going to come from that segment of the population. Also, CA has a lot of rich people.

    2) On the trans issue. That poor transwoman got stuck in the middle of what looks like a money and logistics problem. She’d been on hormone therapy, etc and she was due to be paroled and Harris’ position was that she should wait and get the surgery when she was paroled and it would be covered by Medi-cal instead of having it covered by the prison budget and then having to have hearings on where she should be moved to after surgery (she’d have needed to be transferred to a women’s prison) the logistics of moving her and then the logistics of parole. Harris wanted to court to wait the three months and see of she got parole and that would have greatly simplified a lot of problems for the system. It isn’t transphobic, it’s a case of the system not being tailored for individual needs (which is a significant problem for everyone in the prison system, but probably especially for tranfolk).

    • (((fka_donnie_d)))

      And, see, somebody made an actual argument. Instead of insinuating that some people sit down and shut up. Works for me!

      • Frank Underboob

        See, that’s always a nice thing when it happens.
        That’s one of the arguments against Harris that I’m happy to give her a pass on. Her unconstitutional vendetta against Backpage, not so much, & especially not her refusal to prosecute Steve Mnuchin for his illegal foreclosures, which seems likely to be connected to the fact that the bank concerned is one of her donors.

        • (((fka_donnie_d)))

          Sit Down and Shut Up is mildly acceptable during elections. Even then with an asterisk.

        • (((fka_donnie_d)))

          And (from what I see so far) I’m going to go ahead and disagree with you about Backpage. Those people are waaaaay too close to SilkRoad for my comfort. Privately-owned websites have an active duty to keep out anything that even looks like pedophilia.

      • Red Bird

        Nope

    • Red Bird

      What I’m more worried about is when people get paid to spread propaganda.

      • Bemused

        ??

  • Three Finger Salute

    Her ethnic background aside, Harris might not be electable because she’s lived and learned abroad — in that communist dictatorship called Canada. Obama’s “cosmopolitan childhood” being the most obvious assertion of GOP nativism as of late, but remember when Trump even trotted out birtherism on Cruz? Or how in the Georgia 6th district election, Handel made a BFD about Ossoff living 20 minutes away — even though she was from Maryland and he was a born-and-bred Georgia peach?

    Harris’ mother Shyamala was a professor at Justin Trudeau’s alma mater of McGill University, and Kamala herself graduated high school in Québec. The fact that she spent most of her childhood in Soviet Canuckistan means the pitchforks would come out saying we’re being annexed. We need a candidate who doesn’t have a passport. Or who’s only visited Israel, and certainly not been immersed in the land of sinful decadence and universal healthcare. A Harris candidacy would be Birthergate 2.0.

    • Yr. Gma

      Ted Cruz something something.

    • spangled

      Oh shit I went to McGill too! So not only is she smart, she’s probably a pretty nice person who has received single payer healthcare AND has good taste in bagels?

      • Three Finger Salute

        Yup. And that’s why Trump will win again. Harris actually went to Howard for college — one of those HBCUs that Betsy DeVil likes to trot out as an example of “school choice” (stupid ignant that she is). Obama, as we know, only spent part of his childhood in Indonesia too, but that didn’t stop the birthers from claiming he was illegitimate (which, of course, they still do). Congress would probably subpoena Trudeau himself and hold him hostage for 18 hours, demanding that he say she was his classmate/girlfriend/mistress/half-sister by an affair between Pierre and a Bollywood actress or Maggie and Ravi Shankar. Or AOT,K.

  • BMW

    My biggest complaint about Kamala Harris is that she isn’t my girlfriend.

  • Yr. Gma

    When I find the perfect candidate–the one who always agrees with me and would always have taken the actions I would have taken–oh, wait… That would be me, and I don’t wanna run for any office anywhere no how. I guess I’ll have to settle on someone who agrees with me on most issues and who has taken actions I can recognize as sensible at the time.

    • Marguerite Hill

      ^^^Thank you!!!^^^

      These political naifs think that perfection in humans actually exists! Wow! Next, they’ll be telling us all about the unicorn in the backyard.

    • CindyinEncinitas

      I would vote for you.

  • jcars

    Here’s what I think is happening. Bernie lost in 2016 almost solely because poc just weren’t buying what he was trying to sell them. And suddenly we see that wing of the party strategically attacking potential primary candidates who’ll have more sway than him over those demos. Notice they aren’t going after Biden/Klobuchar/Murphy/etc.

    • Claire

      I was listening to Joy Reid on Pod Save America the other day, and she said much the same thing; she even said that if Hillary had been black she probably would have won, because black women would have been dragging people out of the grocery store to go vote. So from that perspective, it might actually be a better idea to run Kamala Harris than Amy Klobuchar.

      • Three Finger Salute

        Harris spent most of her childhood in Canada. It’ll be birtherism all over again just like Obama with Indonesia. I know, cut out the middleman and just everyone at MSNBC run for some office anywhere? Except Zika and Joke, they enabled the Trump media circus for ratings and then all of a sudden ran crying that he was an asshole. You knew he was a snake when you let him phone it in!

        • Claire

          It’ll be everything all over again, Obama + Hillary, because it’s not about where anyone was born or who they gave speeches to or whatever. All that shit is just code for “We don’t want anyone but white men in the White House.” Conservatives will always be able to find a way to say that without necessarily saying it out loud, because they’ve had 250 years of practice.

    • Frank Underboob

      Bernie lost in 2016 almost solely because poc just weren’t buying what he was trying to sell them.

      He’s doing extremely well with them, as of April this year:
      http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/329404-poll-bernie-sanders-countrys-most-popular-active-politician
      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1d0dd9b072024cf97f053b51df9aff7f42be0ca7fecab54713e0d7cd07d1fece.jpg

      • jcars

        Yeah, and Hillary Clinton was the most admired woman like 20 years in a row. None of that means jackshit once the primaries start. Bernie vs. Kamala will result in him once again getting destroyed by the “Confederacy” and he and his supporters know it.

      • Marceline

        And yet he lost the poll that really counted: the Democratic primary.

        • Frank Underboob

          Considering how badly it was stacked against him, it’s amazing that he did as well as he did. But hey, you guys were the purity ponies arguing that he wasn’t a ‘real’ Democrat, & went with the Wall St Dembot instead with the huge *un*popularity ratings instead. And look how that worked out for you – you lost to a spray-tanned fucking dumpster fire.

          • Marceline

            Oh that’s right I forgot. When white men lose is because something was stolen from them.

          • Frank Underboob

            Oh fuck off. Your white corporate robot won the rigged primaries. Congratu-fucking-lations, you got what you wanted. Too bad the Dem’s couldn’t rig the real election. Y’know, the one that actually mattered, where you needed to win over voters who weren’t part of the Dem base. And look how that worked out for you. So now you have Trump, who the super-genius Dem strategists promoted during the Repug primaries because they thought he’d be a walkover for Clinton. Nice work guys! Proud of yourselves?

            Fucking idiots.

  • spangled

    I like Kamala, and I like several “Bernie endorsed” people as well.

    It’s almost like most liberal people have very similar ideas and we’re all on the same side? And maybe we should not be shitting on our allies who vote with us 95% of the time?

    • eyelashviper

      Stop making Sense..

    • shivaskeeper

      The hell you say.

  • gene108

    At this point, I assume half of all people slamming Democrats for being Democrats are Russian bots, trolls or agents, seeking to undermine our democracy.

    Russia backed a lot more Republicans than just Trump.

    Russ seems to have an active interest in helping Republicans. Part of their disinformation campaign was targeted at liberals, to so dissatisfaction in our ranks.

    • The Rain in Spain’s Therapist

      Wikileaks did a bang up job before the election muddying up the progressive waters.

  • ahh_2_2

    Democrats doing the same fucking thing since 2006 has worked out so well for us hasn’t it.

    • Marguerite Hill

      Let’s see: We took control of the House of Representatives, held the White House for 8 years, gave millions of Americans access to healthcare, saved the US auto industry, salvaged the global economy, approved same-sex marriage, and helped to craft and agreed to the Paris Climate Accord. I’d say “the same fucking thing” was actually quite successful. Voter suppression, state(ALEC)-generated gerrymandering, kicking thousands of registered voters of the rolls through Kris Kobach’s racist organization CrossCheck, and Russian interference are the entities toward which you should vent your ire, and rightfully so.

      • ahh_2_2

        Yes they were good at electing Obama twice and some good stuff came out from 2008-2010. But it’s all been downhill from there.

        • Crazt Maist Waizy

          Sorry, ‘some good stuff.’ That’s all you can say about those achievements?

          • sgt. jmk of the résistance

            “Apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?”

    • CindyinEncinitas

      Now is not the time for hand-wringing. Now is the time to organize, galvanize, and kick some ass.

      • ahh_2_2

        It’s time to see what will work best in the future. And it’s clear that no one from the Clinton or Obama camp has a fucking clue what they are doing. Deval Patrick for president? The same guy who works for Bain Capital? GTFO of here with that.

        • Angela

          “Patrick currently serves as a Managing Director of Bain Capital Double Impact, where he focuses on investments that deliver both a competitive financial return and significant positive social impact.”
          https://www.obama.org/updates/obama-foundation-announces-addition-governor-deval-patrick-board-directors/

          WHAT A MONSTER.

          • ahh_2_2

            I know 2012 is a long time ago but do remember that presidential election? Go online and watch some of Obama’s ads. You will notice that he didn’t seem to have high opinion of Bain Capital.

    • Frank Underboob

      Now they’re saying that *obviously* the problem in ’16 was that they didn’t swing far enough Right, so they’ve decided that women’s fundamental rights are too ‘pure’ for their platform. But of course it’s Sanders who’s the misogynist, somehow.

  • Marceline

    No snark. Fuck these purity ponies who can’t get out of campaign mode. It’s ridiculous to even be talking about 2020. In 2020 our biggest concern might be dealing with the survivors of a nuclear war with North Korea but these moronic Berniac just can’t ever move on from 2016. These are the same morons who sat home during midterms and now that they’ve been “inspired” (read: radicalized) by Bernie the rest of us are supposed to bow to them.

    We’ve got issues right in front of us that we need to fight. We’ve got people being deported NOW! We’ve got cops shooting us NOW! Stop talking about 20-goddamn-20.

    • The Rain in Spain’s Therapist

      Hear! Hear! You never disappoint, Marceline.

    • Pilotshark

      ^^^up^^^
      if they want to talk, let them talk about 2018!!!!
      without that the road just got blocked!

  • Donkey Option

    Even my favorite liberals will have a policy I don’t 100% agree with. But I’d rather one of them than any conservative. I am so tired of “liberals” branding any successful democratic as not liberal enough. These people hate the democratic party and that’s it. They don’t actually care about unifying the left so we can protect our country and its most vulnerable members. They just want to be right and screw anyone who isn’t them.They aren’t true liberals. They are selfish little assholes who care more about winning intellectual points than preventing the downfall of our society and democracy. Fuck them.

    • eyelashviper

      I just glanced in at a site full of those far left purists, and of course they are railing on Hillary, vowing to vote for Gopers in areas with Blue Dog Dems, and otherwise behaving like they are in need of a massive dose of anti-delusional meds.

      • coozledad

        The Young Turks are especially noxious. They must be getting Russian money.

        • Carpe Vagenda

          They’re getting Republican money. Who knows where that’s coming from.

          • HooverVilles

            Really, I guess I shouldn’t be surprised based on what I am reading.

          • Carpe Vagenda

            A firm led by former Republican governor and congressman Buddy Roemer is investing millions into The Young Turks Network to significantly increase its content, sales, and platform presence.

            The investment of $4 million, with an option to go up to $8 million, came out of a conversation Roemer and The Young Turks Network founder Cenk Uygur had backstage before speaking at a conference about money in politics last year. The relationship between the conservative Louisiana politician and the founder of the progressive media outlet stemmed from both making the removal of money’s influence on politics their signature issues.

            “One thing led to another, and it turns out we’re terrific partners for one another and that’s how it came about,” Uygur, who also has a PAC devoted to campaign finance reform, said in an interview.

            Cenk is currently concentrating on the PAC he started with the goal of defeating all the Democrats in Congress. He says it’s a separate operation.

          • HooverVilles

            Thanks for that info. It’s bigly SAD!, but it’s better to know than be ignorant.
            When I first checked out TYT, many years ago, they seemed reasonable.
            This is disappointing.
            Sigh, dangling $$$ in front of people sure can have bad outcomes.
            Something, something about power corrupting.
            SAD!

          • Carpe Vagenda

            Oh, I think it’s sad too. I was standing nearby when shiny young progressive not-yet-a character from A Face in the Crowd-Cenk was getting ready to spread the gospel of liberalism on MSNBC.

        • eyelashviper

          it’s pathetic, some sites have done some fine investigative journalism, but they dive too readily into conspiracies of Alex Jones repute, and some of the comment threads are just nuts.
          Counterpunch and the intercept are good examples.

        • HooverVilles

          Oh, SAD!
          I have not paid attention to TYT in a long time. Now I know that I probably shouldn’t waste any time checking them out again.
          Thanks.

    • The Rain in Spain’s Therapist

      It’s 90’s, “I don’t listen to Green Day, they’re too commercial” all over again.

    • what, me worry?

      Agreed, but I also think it’s important to know why they don’t agree. A difference of philosophy or priority is one thing, but when a politician takes a position that the majority of Democrats oppose, and that same politician is also being paid vast sums of money from special interests that will profit from that outlier position, it is the fool who shrugs and says, “so?”

      • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

        is is the (left-wing) fool who keeps campaign donations from voting for a reliable dem and allowing the fucking Republicans to win a seat or the presidency.

        • what, me worry?

          If your policy principles are for sale, then you aren’t reliable. You’re as reliable as your donor list allows you to be.

          Why are you an apologist for corruption?

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            nice strawman buddy – I said what I wanted to say.

          • what, me worry?

            It is a logical extension of my premise, not a straw man.

            If you’re a progressive politician, and you take a position against something that the vast majority of your voters are for, like, say, single payer healthcare, and you also get paid staggering sums of money by industries that benefit from that position, then, by extension, any industry that would profit from you taking a regressive position on a topic of interest to them would be foolish to not get an estimate. How much to drop your policy?

            When your principles are for sale, the only question is how much?

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            too stupid, didn’t read.

          • what, me worry?

            Unless you read, you’ll remain too stupid.

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            yes yes, thanks for the condescension – seeing as how you’re always wrong and make ridiculous arguments, I think I’m better off.

          • amrak63

            Why raise your blood pressure, Tex? Just block the petaQ and be done with it.

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            it’s a thing I have.

      • Donkey Option

        I agree, but it seems like the die-hards didn’t care that, by the general election, the democratic party platform was incredibly close to the Sanders platform. They didn’t like Hillary, and just claimed that she wouldn’t follow through with any of the platform parts that they agreed with. It didn’t matter what he actual policies were, because they just didn’t support her or the party. And as politicians can evolve their positions over time since things change, saying that the politician didn’t support a position 10 years ago isn’t really indicative of how they’d vote now.

  • Upright Ape

    Wait…speaking of friends getting all pissed off, is it homophobic to refer to Trump as “Putin’s Little Bitch”? If so, I’ll refrain from usage.

    And of “Harris 2020”, “Franken 2020”, or “Harris-Franken 2020”, which gonna fly the highest?

    • Raan

      I like the sound of Harris-Franken, personally.

      • The Rain in Spain’s Therapist

        Just as long as it’s not Franken-Stein 2020.

        • redarmyzombie

          I’ll have you know, it’s pronounced Franken-Steeeeen!

    • Three Finger Salute

      For us, AOT,K.

      Nationally? WASP male with at least 2 kids and WASP male with at least 2 kids.

      Don’t forget we still have to spread the tiny little blueberry patches out over a yuge cranberry bog that will vote (R) again no matter what, just to spite the black woman who lived in Canada and the Jewish comedian from “lying SNL.”

      http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/583c8f50ba6eb69a018b66b9/heres-the-final-2016-electoral-college-map.jpg

      • OrdinaryJoe

        My blood boils every time I see that swath of rust belt red. WI, MI, PA. 46 electoral votes. A few thousand ballots to the left and none of this happens. Ultra libs need to get their heads in the game and out of their asses before the christo-fascists have them on pikes.

        • Pilotshark

          ” Ultra libs need to get their heads in the game before the christo-fascists have them on pikes.”

          ^^^^^up^^^^^!

        • sarafina

          And fix the crappy voting machines to eliminate vote changing!!

    • Willert

      no Franken-Stein?

      sorry…

      • sarafina

        He sounds nice.

    • M.E. Lawrence

      Oh, why not? I chant “WHINY LITTLE BITCH” at him all the time. Mind you, I’m straight, but I am a female.

    • redarmyzombie

      Speaking as a gay folk, we all know he’s Putin’s Little Bitch…

  • Bitter Scribe

    What kills me is the people who howl about how losers should just shut up and go away every time Hillary Clinton opens her mouth. Meanwhile, Bernie “I’m Too Pure to Be a Democrat” Sanders goes to rally after rally.

    • Marguerite Hill

      Only women are told that crap! Merriam-Webster definition of misogyny made clear, word in action. Besides, Hillary is not a loser, and she is welcome to voice whatever the hell she wants!

  • Crystalclear12

    Yep, feeling your pain.

  • NDP2

    Attorney General Sessions just announced he’s considering subpoenaing news reporters in order to stop leaks and Trump’s backing an immigration bill that would’ve been considered reactionary 125 years ago and (on a personal note) likely prevented half my family from coming over if it had been the law then. I mention these items because they underscore how much damage the Trump Administration has already done and the dire need to get him and his cohorts out of office. Despite this, there seems to be an alarming amount of energy spent on the left side of the political spectrum forming circular firing squads. If this keeps up, Trump–despite all the carnage he’ll cause–will end up winning in 2020 by default.

  • JD Mulvey
    • M.E. Lawrence

      Well–I don’t know about bright versus dumb. Temperament? My wonderful, intelligent, idealistic leftie stepdaughter, now 46, is a purity pony. She really did not seem to get it (meaning she got it, but refused to find it significant) when I talked to her about HRC, sexism, and Clinton’s financial baggage relative to other high-profile (male) pols’ baggage.

      Oddly enough, my millennial bio-daughter got it absolutely, and was delighted to vote for Clinton. Guess she’s a pragmatist, like her maternal unit.

  • Jgb979

    It’s perfectly fine to be a purity pony for your favorite presidential candidate in the midst of a presidential campaign, (one of which just ended a few months ago and you must be a masochist to keep talking about it now)

    When it comes down to team D vs. team R: you put all that shit aside and you vote for the candidate who will not actively try to destroy everything you hold dear.

    If you continue to be a purity pony and waste your vote on like Jill Stein, you have to carry the burden of knowing you helped to elect Donald Trump.

    • Beanz&Berryz

      Effectively voted for Trump… as regards relative vote counts…

    • HooverVilles

      EXACTLY!

  • natoslug

    Say . . . what’s Nader up to these days? 2020 could be his year!

    • eyelashviper

      SSSshhhhhhh.

      • natoslug

        Just don’t repeat his name two more times and we should be fine.

        • MOG253

          FTW!!!

    • Master Contrail Program

      Deez Nutz will be that much closer to eligibility by 2020!

      • unionthuggery

        Deez Nutz likely would have been a president than the one we got.

        • SeeTrain65

          Voted for “Deez Nuts.” My country elected “Heez Nuts.”

    • Dutchman
    • hendenburg2

      I was bullied a lot in middle school (1998-2001). After the election, my tormentor’s line of choice became “I bet your parents voted for Nader”

      • natoslug

        Now that’s vicious!

  • cheetojeebus

    I just spent 5 minutes getting the end of a roll of packing tape sorted out, so pardon me in adnce for my vulgarity and lack of patience with these fucking douchebag purity taints and their fucking all or nothing fucking male privilege shit, this paunchy middle aged white dude thinks you should all settle the fuck down and look where we are and what we have to do and decide if you’re going to part of the fucking problem or part of the fucking solution. FUCK I HATE PAKING TAPE??@?!/22

    • NastyBossetti

      I sympathize with your packing tape rage. But I am also laughing at it. But while I sympathize.

    • eyelashviper

      Tape is a vast right wing conspiracy to make us nuts…
      Even a lil roll of scotch tape can send me into raving fits.

      • CindyinEncinitas

        I have challenged mine to a duel.

        • eyelashviper

          An ax is good, also too.

        • sarafina

          Bare hands, pistols or swords?

          • CindyinEncinitas

            Goof-Off at 20 paces! Will you be my second? We meet at dawn.

      • Zippy W Pinhead

        I use gaffer’s tape on everything because I’m weird…

        • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

          lol, anybody who’s worked with it knows how wonderful it is and seems to stick with it.

          (It was a bit expensive back in the day and could only be found at camera shops, so I never got used to buying it).

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            We buy it by the case

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            ah, taking the “left overs” from work. ; )

    • Claire

      Packing tape is definitely part of the problem.

    • Beanz&Berryz

      Thanks from a not-so-paunchy middle aged white dude… and that little fold-over of the end of the packing tape to leave a tab after each use is one of the most Zenish moves you’ll ever appreciate…

      • eyelashviper

        If you can be quick enough to grab it and fold it back…too many of these rolls are deviously trained to foil us, no matter what.

      • cheetojeebus

        Indeed, however this thin cheap crap from Harbor freight is loaded with static charge and the second it leaves the cutting edge it slams back down like a bitch before you can get a fold on it.

        • Beanz&Berryz

          Ya, you gotta just move on it like a bitch. Try a tic tac first.

        • Richard Girlswin

          Have you tried taking it to a furniture store?

        • Toomush_Inferesistance

          Um, if you went to Harbor Freight for packing tape, some of those fingers are pointing back at you….

    • Bemused

      You’d be surprised how much better the next level up of packing tape is. Seriously, when you run out of this batch (or even before) buy the slightly more expensive stuff, it will change your life. Also, those tape dispensers that professional movers use? A-Mazing. Buy one of those too. The good kind.

      • Beanz&Berryz

        With the full-grip handle…

      • cheetojeebus

        yep, I was just being cheap. never again. I like the thick scotch stuff.

  • sockbunny08

    Just how much elbow grease will the purists apply for the 2018 mid-terms? Do they do anything but rally and whine? Because when I’m knocking doors or making calls, I never run into a single one.

    • eyelashviper

      they are in their chat rooms, wanking away.

      • Three Finger Salute

        And that’s the problem. They’ll stay in their chatrooms and won’t bother to vote.

  • sockbunny08

    3 congressional districts here in CA (nearby, as in within 3 hours by car!) are flippable. Please learn yours and work the hell out of them starting now.

  • Donkey Option

    Side note – I was on another site where someone asked about how they could tell people that they don’t like the new Doctor on Doctor Who without coming across as sexist. The person questioned responded by advising them to detail the other actresses that they person would be okay with.

    This got to me. This is what happened with Hillary. These people who really don’t want a woman in charge and mask it by saying “oh, but if it was some other woman, I’d be fine with it.” So you call them on it. And then they’re all “oh, now I have all these really good reasons for hating her, so here’s another woman.” Kind of like Harris and Gillibrand and Warren. But as soon as it looks like they might be the nominee, all of a sudden there are all these zillions of reason why they aren’t the right pick. And it NEVER happens for men. It’s never “oh, I’d support Joe Biden” but then “oh, he’s actually kind of creepy in how he relates to women, and he’s a bit too old, so maybe him as pres isn’t the best idea but I’d support Corey Booker.” Nope, if he’s a dude, it doesn’t matter what he’s done or how he’s voted, it never counts against him.

    • Three Finger Salute

      Only white dudes though. See if they’d replace Booker or Patrick with Obama and then you’ll know.

      • sarafina

        Barack or Michelle?

    • Dutchman
    • Zippy W Pinhead

      Liz was their “one blah friend” until she committed the apostasy of not slobbering all over Bernie during the primary

    • Michael Smith

      Lol asking yourself “How do I say what I’m thinking without it coming across as sexist” is usually an indication that you are thinking is probably sexist.

      • Donkey Option

        Truth.

      • Donkey Option

        See also racist, homophobic, transphobic, xenophobic…

  • M.E. Lawrence

    I finally get to share (we share here in California, constantly) my favorite quote about leftie purity from the 2016 Dem Con:

    “That night, Sanders, seated with the delegation from Vermont, called for
    Clinton’s nomination by acclamation. The People shouted, but not with
    one voice. Hundreds of Sanders delegates and supporters rose from their
    seats and walked out. ‘We will not yield,’ Alyssa DeRonne, a delegate
    from Asheville, North Carolina, said. ‘I want to see my children
    philosophizing and inventing new things, not blowing up another
    country.’ Anne Hamilton walked out, too. So did Sanders delegates from
    Hawaii. Carolyn Golojuch, a seventy-year-old Clinton delegate from
    Honolulu, was disgusted by the walkout. ‘I have stood on the streets by
    the state capitol for eighteen years, working for same-sex-marriage
    rights, for my son, for everyone,’ she told me. ‘I have lost jobs. I
    have fought and I have fought. These Sanders people, they haven’t
    learned how to compromise. And you know what? They don’t own the word
    “progressive.”‘”

    http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/08/08/a-tale-of-two-conventions

    • Beanz&Berryz

      Not ceding the meanings of wordz that otherz wanna usurp is an important step…

    • Crazt Maist Waizy

      THIS. This is everything about the BernieBros at the moment.

  • MOG253

    Love to your mom, solidarity! Also, if you sillies don’t like the way the sausage is made, tough. Politics isn’t a game for the weak. Just the way it is.

  • eyelashviper

    So how many Deep Derp State Oligarcy Neolibrul Vichy Dem Hillary Haters have shown up yet to assail Kamala as being a corporate stooge sell out? Or is it too early for the afternoon shift?

    • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

      just the one, so far.

      • WomanInThePersistence

        Who? Did I miss a troll?

        • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

          scroll down.

          • WomanInThePersistence

            What, me worry? I’m just guessing because the Disqus won’t let me reply. I could be very wrong.

    • Carpe Vagenda

      And during the election, Sanchez was alt-portrayed as Hillary’s candidate (which she wasn’t) despite Harris’ sister working for the Clinton campaign, because Harris was the progressive candidate.

  • Renée

    I’m glad we’re all on the same page here.

    Some of these people need to take a loooooonnnnnng look in the mirror and truly consider how their own racism and sexism are driving their animosity towards many of these “not liberal enough” Democrats.

    • Donkey Option

      How can white men every expect POC or women to know what’s best for them?

  • CindyinEncinitas

    As long as you’re as shrill as you wanna be, it’s all going to work out fine! https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ef1e9dd542f4d868aabe946aa44eafa2d063a33915e8e8ee7bb568a15d6cca31.jpg

    • Beanz&Berryz

      I wrenched my back looking at that pikture

      • CindyinEncinitas

        That girl did about 20 tumbling runs on that beach. Like, 2 or 3 running backflips in a row. It was exhausting just to watch her but she was about 15 so she prolly could have done it all day.

        • Beanz&Berryz

          A joyful scene…

    • Lance Thrustwell

      Great photo.

      • CindyinEncinitas

        Thanks. I get lucky sometimes.

    • SDGeoff3

      Are you beaching today? I had a nice walk down the Strand this morning before work. Then I didn’t want to do anything. So I’m beer-ing now at Coronado Brewing.

      • CindyinEncinitas

        They have the most beautiful tap handles I’ve ever seen.
        I’m working and I’m glad because I don’t have air and it’s sweltering out there!

        • SDGeoff3

          And they just announced new tap handles are about to be introduced. It’s not bad down here at all. People are moaning and carrying on, but the ocean breeze is really nice today. I won’t tell you about our a/c on at home.

          • CindyinEncinitas

            Thank you. I’m really ok with just a fan and the windows open but the mosquitoes are starting up now so it’s a dilemma. Have fun!

  • Reximus

    Pharma Bro, please keep a spot open at the rich bitches table for Jr.

    – DJT

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/df06e4007f0ab77e9ee7a82f31be5d297fb9be27b28a82999fd57cb025244553.jpg

    • Three Finger Salute
    • eyelashviper

      Meanwhile, in the state pen, Bubba with four teeth is negotiating with Pig Face to get the closest bunk.

      • sarafina

        Prison rape is not funny. For anyone.

        • Richard Girlswin

          Agreed. I think it’s explicitly listed as not cool in the rules.

      • doktorzoom

        Please review the rules. We don’t do prison rape jokes. No, not even about evil jerks getting raped. If you genuinely think rape is hilarious, you may want to rethink your sense of the comic.

        — Dok Zoom, Yr Friendly Neighborhood Comments Moderator

    • alpacapunchbowl

      Did a verdict come down today?

      • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

        yup, guilty on 3 counts, sentence is max of 20 years

        • alpacapunchbowl

          NICE.
          This somewhat assuages my rage at the cunts going after my girl Kamala and going after all the other effective progressive and viable candidates. Many of whom happen to be female and/or of color. It’s the damnedest thing.

        • bookish

          No big sleazy smile today.

          • CindyinEncinitas

            Yeah, where is the signature smirk today, Sparky???

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            i saw a headline saying he smirked through the whole thing today – but i’m not sure about that.

          • Pisto75666

            His lawyer’s now saying his client MIGHT have ‘an image problem’ (Gee, YA THINK?). When actually what he has is WontShutTheFuckUp-Itis.

            But that should clear itself up when he gets to prison .

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            whoops, I was wrong, it was just a chance for CNN to run that video from when testified to congress.

        • sarafina

          The story I read gave the sentence if he’d been found guilty of all 8 counts, not the 3 counts of which he was found guilty.

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            ah, okay then, my bad. I’m only seeing snippets.

          • sarafina

            I complained to HuffPo about the sloppiness. Thanks for sharing the good news initially, though.

      • redarmyzombie

        Eyyyup, and boy, my freude is schaeden!

    • Beanz&Berryz

      I really do like that photo… It’s like a kitty pic…

      • alpacapunchbowl

        Sad asshole is sad. Merp a derp.

  • Dutchman

    I consider myself to be left of Ted Kennedy. *bows head and whispers “Rest your sainted soul, sir”*

    I believe that I made my views perfectly clear earlier this week vis a vis Purity Pony riders, BernieBros and Jillies. We’re where we are because those folks have the weakness of will and gullibility for what’s spewed by the VRWC that they actually believe that our nation is better off with anyone other than Hillary.

    Of course Ms. Dutchman says I’m an asshole when it comes to politics. And bad tacos.

    • Beanz&Berryz

      Mrs. Bz&Bz doesn’t call me an asshole about politics, but she doesn’t tolerate a good, clean, snarky rant like my friends here do… In all other regardz she’s a swell Mrs.

  • Pilotshark

    well when everyone was calling John, Lisa, Susan such hero`s for there votes.
    i my self think of the 5 so called blue dog, crop, etc… Manchin, Hetkemp, Macaskil, Donnely, Testor who are very vulnerable this year. who voted the correct way, knowing it will possibly hurt them later.
    So guessing what percentage does a Democrat have to vote totally with the party? 90%, 80% to be consider still a Democrat?
    and when did the party go from a GP large tent to a GP small tent?

  • sarafina

    Thank you Rebecca, I find those idiot whiners VERY annoying. They would rather bitch about Harris, Gillibrand or HRC than Republicans. Is it just a coincidence the 3 I listed are women?

    • unionthuggery

      Not a coincidence.

    • Dutchman

      Uh, No?

    • ChiefOfStaffCaptainHowdy

      Forgot Pelosi.

    • WomanInThePersistence

      Girlgerms.

    • Truthiness2U

      Don’t forget Deval Patrick and Cory Booker. Now, gee, what do they have in common with the women you listed? Oh yeah, they’re not white men.

      Funny how that works out.

      And for women, WOC and POC not to be called out by these brats, they have to have sworn fealty to Bernie, as it can’t be policy w/people like Tulsi.

    • HazooToo

      “Like this” meaning the above article, or the smearing with feces?

    • Webster

      It’s very brave of you to post this link here. However, you can tell by the tone of the thread, that no one bothered to read the article’s considered and level-headed assessment of just why, perhaps, Democrats ought to take a more in-depth look at Kamala Harris and her record.

      We have a couple of years yet to vet possible candidates for 2020–and maybe, just maybe, we shouldn’t plan another coronation until all the facts are known and taken into consideration. We might just find another candidate along the way with Progressive bona fides that we all might be able to get behind who will inspire us to greater things?

      It’s a thought…

  • Dudleydidwrong

    I’ve been driving all afternoon in a rain like a fucking carwash, finally got into a hotel that is ridiculously expensive, I just got word that my sister’s in the ER, and I turn on Wonkette for shits and grins and to find out the newds of the day and what do I get? Fucking internecine warfare! Jesus eating jujubees! Trump’s lower than whale shit, a grand jury’s chewing on his ass, congress is beginning to act like they can work together, and the goddamn fucking Democrats are killing each other because one isn’t pure enough for the other! We’re so good at snatching defeat from the dripping jaws of victory. Enough, goddamn it!

    • Lance Thrustwell

      I’m happy about the grand jury! And I hope your sister feels better soon!

    • starfanglednut

      I hope your sister’s ok.

  • CripesAmighty

    And if y’all would like a nice break from pounding each other senseless, Marty Shkreli now has an official reservation at the Federal Sneezer. 1 down…

  • Frank Underboob

    For all of you ranting about “purity ponies”, etc, what’s your take on the Dem Party saying “no litmus tests” & funding anti-choice candidates in the hope of getting religious-reich votes? Are y’all fine with that? Or is it possible that a bit of Lefty ideological purity is maybe not such a bad thing after all?
    http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/344196-dem-campaign-chief-vows-no-litmus-test-on-abortion

    • Chyron HR

      The DCCC is doing what Bernie literally told them to. Shouldn’t you be praising them for that?

      • alpacapunchbowl

        Right? Who’s the guy who campaigned with that pro-life “Dem” last year? Something something…Sanders was it?

    • alpacapunchbowl

      I agree that’s ridiculous, but to be honest, the vast majority of the BernieBros and purity ponies I come into contact with couldn’t be bothered to give even one teeny tiny wee shit about reproductive rights.

      • Frank Underboob

        Really? At least half of the Sanders supporters I know are women, & not only in favour of reproductive rights, but pretty rabid about them – as am I.
        To me, this announcement just confirmed something that I already believed about the Dem. Party; which is that they don’t give a shit about principles or human rights, just about money. I say money, because they sure aren’t fussy about their donors; payday lenders, private prisons, etc. If someone has money, the Dem’s will look after them.

        • alpacapunchbowl

          Yes, really. To be clear, I have friends, male and female, white, POC, straight, gay, who support Sanders. They also struggle mightily with his actions and attitudes toward women and POC. (Yeah, I know he marched and got arrested. 50 years ago.)
          He talks the talk but doesn’t walk the walk as far as I’m concerned. I agree that this stance by the DCCC is bullshit, but Bernie’s no better.
          Also, n.b., I said BernieBros and purity ponies. Not Bernie Sanders supporters. Those are two very different things.

          • Frank Underboob

            It would be lovely if you could convince all the shouty people here of that last point. It’d certainly lower my blood pressure.

          • alpacapunchbowl

            Well, to be fair, and I promise I’m not trying to stir shit up, you haven’t exactly done a bang-up job of acknowledging the distinction yourself. Just my opinion.

          • Frank Underboob

            I’m doing the best I can, considering that I’ve had people here screaming at me every time the topic comes up for more than a year.

          • alpacapunchbowl

            You may want to consider a slight change in tactics in the interest of having a more productive discussion. I can’t speak for anyone else, but I found your initial post and follow-up responses to be pretty combative.

    • Dutchman
    • WomanInThePersistence

      I can live with somebody like Kaine. And why are you stirring up things?

      • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

        heh, “thongs.”

        Hehe

        • WomanInThePersistence

          Fixed. And yeah, heh heh heh.

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            no! you should have left it…be proud of serendipitous stuff like that.

          • mfp, all 6s&7s&9s

            i can always tell when someone types on a touch pad, esp an ipad (as i do)….i hit the ‘o’ instead of the ‘i’ alla time, and end up with a lotta thongs

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            my fat fingers are no good on my iPhone 6 (or any touchscreen really). Who do they make those keyboards for, elves?

          • WomanInThePersistence

            That’s why I always check my posts.

        • CindyinEncinitas

          Is that what that tingling sensation was?

    • The Rain in Spain’s Therapist

      That was Bernie’s idea. Happy with it now?

      • Frank Underboob

        You understand that Mello was a Dem candidate, yes? The Dem’s *wanted* Sanders support for him.

    • ChiefOfStaffCaptainHowdy

      Purity ponies worked to elect a “president” who in the last week declared that I have no civil rights, so, yes, fuck them.

      • Frank Underboob

        Yeah, no, the vast majority of Sanders supporters did what he asked them to do; held their noses & voted for Clinton anyway. The ones who didn’t were the independents & rightish types who wouldn’t vote for a typical Dem robot under any circumstances. The Dem Party would’ve gotten those votes & demolished Trump, but no, it was more important to them to have a Corporate DemBot than to win. After all, it’s not like any of the party higher-ups are going to suffer financially under a Trump regime.

    • Dutchman

      The Democratic Party from a platform perspective should be pro-choice and our preferred candidates should be as well. But if someone holds 80% of the rest of my values, goals and desires politically I’m not going to go full Purity and ensure that a Republican gets a seat. I will KNOW that the R will not be aligned with much or anything I believe and you can be certain that they will be anti-woman.

    • Marceline

      Any Dem is better than any Repub. But this essay from the head of Democrats for Life (I didn’t know any such group existed) gave me a lot to think about.

      https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/08/03/democrats-dont-need-to-be-afraid-of-antiabortion-liberals/?

      The difference between “pro-life” Democrats and Republicans is that the Democrats will also vote for things like Planned Parenthood and anti-poverty programs and healthcare and other things that will affect the lives of these babies after they are born. Whereas Repubs care more about shaming people for having sex and attacking the poor.

      • mfp, all 6s&7s&9s

        it’s easy to remember, and quite simple, really (if one doesnt overthink and complicate things)—the Worst Democrat is always better than the best republican—ALWAYS

        • tomamitai

          Would you have said that about Governor Jim Justice a week ago?

          • mfp, all 6s&7s&9s

            forget it, jake….it’s w. virginia

      • tomamitai

        Oh, well, then, if you’re going to help a woman take care of the unwanted kid you forced her to have then I guess it’s alright!

    • Truthiness2U

      Because basic civil rights aren’t a purity thing, they’re a basic civil right thing.

      We don’t make purity tests about POC or people’s sexual orientation in the Dem Party either.

      As Dems we might disagree on how to get to universal healthcare, for example. And someone telling me that ‘it’s single payer or go to hell, you Republican lite!’ is a purity test.

      That is the difference, and why choice is not a purity test. Or shouldn’t be. Frankly the DCCC treating it as such, is a greater betrayal than any Goldman Sachs!!!1! bullshit.

    • TakingAmes

      Here’s where I fall on this. I don’t need you to agree with me on my rights to an abortion in order to work with you as a Democrat. HOWEVER, I do fucking need you to recognize that your feelings don’t infringe on my rights. You don’t like abortion? Fabulous, neither do I. You don’t have one, and I won’t either. But don’t fucking tell me that I CAN’T have one because YOU think it’s bad.