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All they do is make people unhappy, Montag.

When Donald Trump said he loves the poorly educated, it turns out he wasn’t just speaking for himself. A new Pew Research Center survey on Americans’ attitudes toward various institutions — like churches, the news media, unions, colleges and universities, and banks — finds that the partisan divide on whether higher education is a good thing has grown sharper in the last few years, with Republicans more likely to have lapped up rightwing attacks on colleges as bastions of political correctness where everyone is forced to become a lesbian vegan America-hater.

Most Americans (55%) say that colleges and universities “have a positive effect on the way things are going in the country,” but Republicans disagree:

A majority of Republicans and Republican-leaning independents (58%) now say that colleges and universities have a negative effect on the country, up from 45% last year. By contrast, most Democrats and Democratic leaners (72%) say colleges and universities have a positive effect, which is little changed from recent years.

While the Pew survey didn’t look at why that’s the case, it certainly reflects the long-term Republican distrust of higher education going back to the Culture Wars of the ’80s and ’90s, when any rightwing crank could sell a book declaring that academe was a cesspit of Marxist indoctrination, and politically correct restrictions on free thought, and all-out assaults on traditional values. That trend was best encapsulated by Alan Bloom’s 1987 The Closing of the American Mind, Dinesh D’Souza’s 1991 Illiberal Education, and my mother’s 1985 monograph, “Did going to college make you an atheist? Did it?”

While that Republican leaning away from the value of higher education has been a long time coming, outright Republican animus against higher education really took off between 2015 and the most recent survey, which just happened to be the period when some guy with a fake university ran for president and took office:

Chart by Pew Research Center

As recently as two years ago, most Republicans and Republican leaners held a positive view of the role of colleges and universities. In September 2015, 54% of Republicans said colleges and universities had a positive impact on the way things were going in the country; 37% rated their impact negatively.

By 2016, Republicans’ ratings of colleges and universities were mixed (43% positive, 45% negative). Today, for the first time on a question asked since 2010, a majority (58%) of Republicans say colleges and universities are having a negative effect on the way things are going in the country, while 36% say they have a positive effect.

The survey also found that Republicans who consider themselves conservative have a far more negative view of colleges and universities than other Republicans; 65% of conservatives said they’re having a negative effect while only 43% of “moderate and liberal Republicans” thought so. Pew’s researchers did not indicate where they scraped up any liberal Republicans. For Democrats, ideology makes less of a difference; both liberal Ds (79%) and conservative Ds (67%) were pleased with the effects of higher education.

We’re looking forward to the inevitable follow-up studies on how many anti-academe stories ran on Fox News during the last two years, not to mention a survey of how many Republicans would like to punch anyone who uses the word “academe.”

Not surprisingly, Republicans and Democrats were also divided on the effects of the news media; a full 85% of Republicans say the media are hurting America, while Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents are more divided; 46% see the media as having a negative effect, and 44% see a positive effect. That’s an improvement from last year, when only 33% of Ds thought the media had a positive effect and 59% thought the effect was negative. Again, while the reasons for those changes aren’t explored by Pew, we’re just going to attribute most of that change to all the journalism that’s been done on Donald Trump and his weirdass family. David Fahrenthold probably pushed the percentages several points all on his own.

Oh, and over time, Republicans have actually come to hate the media more: In 2010, 68% said the media were bad for the country, and in 2015 76% did. Following that trend, we can assume by 2025 100% of Republicans will support replacing the First Amendment with the Second.

The Trump administration is currently struggling whether to deride the Pew results as Fake News, or proof that all other news is fake.

[Pew Research Center]

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  • ArgieBargie

    You stupid motherfuckers. Your coal mine jobs aren’t coming back.

  • OutOfOrbit

    Oddly:
    *Looks down at tee shirt.*
    It says:
    “There is no such thing as too many books.”
    For reelz this is a thing today on my manoobs.

  • Roger Wilco

    Where’d ya pull this crap from . . a book?

  • miss_grundy

    Not only do they not like higher education, they also hate to read. I have seen this in my little suburb in southeastern Michigan.

    • OutOfOrbit

      Reading requires brain-cell activity, which his terribly painful in conservatives.

      • Komsumverweigerer Ron

        The two operable cells are at opposite ends of the fatty mass in their heads. Getting a signal to pass between them is difficult.

    • Celtic_Gnome

      One of the fantastic benefits of retirement is the luxury of time to read. I used to slowly plod through a few books a year, now I’m tearing them up. it’s one of the most pleasurable things you can do not involving bodily fluids, and you won’t get arrested for doing it at a bar or in a doctor’s waiting room.

  • Indiepalin

    Trump loves science. Today he is very excited about the spacecraft Juno making a close pass over Jupiter’s Great G Spot.

    • mardam422

      Which may or may not exist.

      • mancityRed6

        I’ve found a couple. not to brag, but upholstery/carpet cleaning was needed.

        • mardam422

          Before or after you found it?

          • mancityRed6

            I had a butt print clear as day on the seat of my truck for at least a couple of years.

          • mardam422

            I’m not sure if I’m impressed or disgusted. And on a different note, is your truck for sale? Asking for a friend.

          • mancityRed6

            this was, umm…25 years ago. yeah, no. sorry.

    • mancityRed6

      since tRump is definitely a two pump chump, do you really think he cares one whit about anyone else’s pleasure?

  • Longstreet63

    The only advantage gained from ignorance is that the ignorant worker is less likely to sue his boss.
    On the other hand, he’s more likely to make catastrophic mistakes.

    • mancityRed6

      and that’s why they defund OSHA

  • mardam422

    “…colleges as bastions of political correctness where everyone is forced to become a lesbian vegan America-hater.”
    Maybe it’s just a generational thing. But I went to college in the 70s, and I love America, women and meat. (I had a cruder way of saying that, but, you know…ban hammer.)

  • schmannity

    American universities must be bad for the country. That’s why all those sneaky furriners are trying to get in.

  • Spotts1701, Resistance Pilot

    Forget college. Pretty soon anyone who got high marks in elementary school will be viewed with suspicion and scorn.

    • Darlene Underdahl

      But how will the idiots support themselves? The days of simple manufacturing jobs are pretty much over.

      • LeftyProud

        That’s why COAL IS COMING BACK!!!

    • Lookit mr. fancypants who knows the difference between a square and a circle!

    • PubOption

      “They hate you if you’re clever, and they despise a fool.” – J. Lennon ‘Working Class Hero’.

  • Beanz&Berryz

    I had to look up how to pronounce academe, even if I might be deemed to be a product of it.

    • Longstreet63

      Does it involve a snooty French accent and a black turtleneck?

      • Komsumverweigerer Ron

        Mais oui!

    • Fartknocker

      I found that if I can’t figure out how to pronounce a word I just ask Seri. That’s one smart woman.

      • Beanz&Berryz

        Smart women are hawt, also too.

    • Is it like Advanced Macrame?

      • shastakoala

        Underwater?

      • Beanz&Berryz

        More like “I had a dream”, if I remember those pronunciation markings right.

  • goonemeritus

    Sure but Wonkette posters hate Vegan restaurants that allow free range toddlers so both sides…..

  • Fartknocker

    Damn straight colleges are the worst. That’s why I’m a proud graduate of the ITT Institute for Drafting and I got my masters at the Velvet Jones School of Technology. I work on the robots that package the cakes you like, bitches!

    • Longstreet63

      Oh, admit it: you just sweep up the plastic bits that fall off the packaging machines…

  • Vecchioivan
  • CripesAmighty

    “How Stupidity Became A Virtue In The Land Of The Free”
    –Charlie Pierce, 2008

    Nailed it.

  • schmannity

    I would say the GOP appeals to the lowest common denominator, but for the elitist math.

  • bookish

    Happy nice time. Students create soothing companions for Alzheimer’s patients.

    http://nbcnews.to/2u9VJ4G

    One interview in particular was kind of the start of Therapalz. We were interviewing a woman, and her husband was in the room. He had been diagnosed with Alzheimer’s five years earlier. By this point he had lost about 95 or 98 percent of his verbal skills. Throughout the interview, he would repeatedly get up and wander, and she would pause and get him re-situated. It was a cycle that continued.

    One day they had a tiny Yorkie that came into the room and hopped onto his lap. The dog’s presence calmed him down completely. We began to look at ways we could recreate the sensations of a live animal for individuals who don’t have access to, or can’t afford one.

  • Doug Langley

    This attitude goes way back. In The Fountainhead, the hero drops out of college cuz the profs are too stupid to teach him anything. And Rand got even nastier toward academia later in her life. Something about how they just wouldn’t take her seriously?

    • mancityRed6

      “well, there’s nothing we can do, he won’t talk.”
      “what about torture?”
      “listen, he’s read Ayn Rand, there’s nothing we can do that would be worse.”

    • Nockular cavity

      “Those fools!” Ayn sputtered, “They laughed at me at the Academy, LAUGHED! But who’s laughing now, MUAH HA HA HA HAAAAAA!”

  • Mystery_Poster

    What about trump university? Did they make an exception for that?

    • Komsumverweigerer Ron

      It’s okay because no actual education was going on there.

  • Blackest Noobs

    And yet I Can’t Believe It’s Not Butter made a vegan version of their crap.

    die-hard “traditionalists of “family values” think they’re turning the tide back with Trump and his ilk…but that’s the furtherest thing from the truth…this is their death throes…there will be plenty of gnashing of teeth and tearing of clothing ( you know, getting Biblical and shit)

    • Vecchioivan

      Your mouth > God’s ear.

      • Blackest Noobs

        fun with Yiddish : פֿון דײַן מויל אין גאָטס אויערן

    • WotsAllThisThen

      Hang on, isn’t that stuff just vegetable oil anyway? So a vegan version would involve simply slapping a “vegan” sticker on it?

      • Blackest Noobs

        yes.

      • Mystery_Poster

        And then charging three times as much.

      • darnyoudarnyoutoheck

        Just went and read the Becel label. It has whey powder, so evil, evil dairy product!!!!

    • Spotts1701, Resistance Pilot

      Well, when you hitch your “family values” wagon to a twice-divorced man whose family started out running dens of ill repute, and who has made his living as a serial adulterer and all-around degenerate, this is bound to happen.

      • Blackest Noobs

        good observation…though they would hate you for that skill cuz SCIENCE.

    • Komsumverweigerer Ron

      I’m 100% behind their wailing and teeth-gnashing and clothing-rending, but why do they feel they need to include us?

  • SomeBigRedDog

    You’re pretty brave mentioning vegans again there Dok.

  • Beanz&Berryz

    Intel, Apple, Google, and Microsoft would be bigger and better if old truckers, loggers, and miners worked there instead of those college pinheads.

    • Three Finger Salute

      But do English majors get jobs at Intel or Microsoft except to teach ESL to H1Bs? I’m beginning to wonder if the arts grad isn’t the Democratic-voting equivalent of the obsolete coal miner or refinery driller. My own experience has shown me this could be the case. My brother’s a math and health-sciences guy who got a phys-ed degree, Has a good-paying job with benefits and opportunity for advancement at a bank, and works part-time at a gym just for some extra spending cash (not that he needs it).

      Has a friend who got an English degree, who delivers the pizzas to Planet Fitness. Friend’s girlfriend got an art history degree. Sandwich artist at Subway. Me? I got a history degree with a minor in sociology. I’m (won’t say how many pounds) on my bed posting poli-sci memes to Wonkette, because my own campus career center told me to get lost.

      I should have gotten a business degree with a minor in theology. I’d be a billionaire by now selling green cloths of prosperity to rubes on cable TV.

      • Oblios_Cap

        won’t say how many pounds

        Now, now. We’re not interested in how much it cost you to go to school in Britain.

    • P’jama Pahnts

      Why won’t they just hire some real Americans?

  • Fundamentalism hates education because education challenges indoctrination with inconvenient facts.

    The main problem in our current political system is the bizarre rejection of facts as an actual thing that exists.

    If conservatives embraced facts and adjusted their proposals and ideology accordingly, they would play a very useful role in politics, because sometimes we need someone to say “Whoa there, let’s slow down and ask some questions and look at the data to see if this is really a problem and we need to do something about it and if what you’re proposing will work.”

    The problem is that our conversations tend to go this way:

    Liberal: This is a problem and we need to do something about it.

    Conservative: Whoa there. Is it really a problem?

    Liberals: Yes, here’s the data showing that this is a problem. Look!

    Conservatives: I like pudding. Also Jesus.

  • goonemeritus

    To be fair both my kid’s are in college and they are pretty insufferable.

    • Spotts1701, Resistance Pilot

      Do they come home with sacks of dirty laundry?

      • goonemeritus

        Why yes, yes they do.

  • dslindc

    That’s because when people are educated, they often look at Republican policy ideas and say, “Wow, those are some seriously fucked up and terrible ideas!”

  • Roger Wilco

    Books-Tremendous, Wonderful, Big, Huge, Amazing, Truly, Enormous, Beautiful, Fantastic and so many more words that won’t be used now that Ringling Brothers closed shop. Alumni. Sad.

  • bupkus231

    Time to bring back literacy tests for voting – then we’ll see how long it is before conservatives decide that maybe some edumacation ain’t such a bad thing….

  • Ilgattomorte

    Well, for myself, I can say that when I entered college I was an Agnostic. By the time I left I was an Atheist. It really wasn’t indoctrination or all of that science-y stuff, it’s just that if higher education is doing it’s job, one leaves with a little more self-confidence and becomes maybe a bit more self-aware.

    Besides, let’s face it. An Agnostic is just a pussy Atheist, trying to be polite.

    • mancityRed6

      first, it was the priest who embarrassed my parents publicly, but I just moved churches.
      then it was the job at the local paper that kept me up on Saturday nights until at least…well, I told my parents 2AM, but it was closer to midnight. I just did other things after.

    • Beanz&Berryz

      Or … lacking the courage of their convictions, as Julia Child would say.

  • Wild Cat

    They really do get vicious if they catch womenfolk reading books . . .
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b1c6d92d059e2b5454d9d4c0a398d8981d78b8c860d813a66c328220a7fd955f.jpg

    • mancityRed6

      NSFW tag
      also, I don’t think that’s about reading books.

      • Wild Cat

        Believe it or not, this cover of Nat Lamp was on open display in the 1970s.
        And so was a little girl’s arse in Coppertone ads (was that really Jody Foster?)

        • mancityRed6

          oh, I know. that stuff just doesn’t fly today. and you never know whose bosses might be looking over someone’s shoulders.

          • Wild Cat

            My boss seems to be enjoying it . . .

        • bupkus231

          I thought that looked familiar.

          • Wild Cat

            This was the only legal porn I could get in the first half of the 1970s . . . kids have it so easy now on the Intertubz.
            Imagine one’s sex life revolving around “Underwear for the Deaf”—no wonder I’m so effed up.

          • mancityRed6

            sears catalog libelz!

          • Wild Cat

            Man, those toasters were HOT!!!

          • mancityRed6
          • AJ Milne

            Caution. Unplug before inserting anything in slot.

          • mailman27

            And Silvertone amps and electric guitars. Made out of genuwine pressed cardboard!

          • bupkus231

            National Geographic!

          • therblig
        • Wait, wasn’t the National Lampoon one of those college thingmabobs? We can’t have that kind of stuff damaging our kids.

          • Wild Cat

            Yup. Harvard Lampoon alumni became the infamous National Lampoon.

        • Bitter Scribe

          NatLamp also had a cover parodying the Coppertone ad, only with a man in place of the little dog.

    • WotsAllThisThen

      What can you do? He has tenure.

    • therblig

      norman rockwell got risque at the end there, didn’t he?

      • Wild Cat

        Yeah, he finally got tired of little boys . . .

  • dslindc

    Them educated people tooked our jerbs! INPEACH!!!!11!!11!

  • I wonder how many of the people who think college is so bad, either never attended, dropped out, or got the Betsy DeVos special from a for profit college?

    • BigCSouthside

      The only way I can view college as bad is it’s been infected with the for profit mindset. It sells people a lot of useless degrees for a lot of money.

    • mailman27

      I dropped out of college after one year. It was 1974, and I wanted to keep it “real.” My greatest regret.

    • aureolaborealis

      A loved one of mine who seems to be a huge Trump fan is also a recent graduate of University of Phoenix, with the accompanying pile of debt. I suspect that she feels that she now has the experience to declare all higher ed a waste of time and money.

      • Not sure if U. Phoenix qualifies as higher ed.

        • aureolaborealis

          I’m not sure, either, and we tried desperately to get her to enroll at the state university in her home town (cheaper, brick-and-morter, people to talk to and get mentored by, etc., etc.), but she was afraid of looking stupid in front of young people, so Phoenix it was.

  • Jenny

    That’s why god gave us the military, libtards!!

    • mancityRed6

      when I signed up, nearly everyone else gave the answer that it was this or jail, or poverty. no one took the recruitment ads seriously.

    • grindstone

      The adored spouse went into the military after hs and got a terrific education. We met in our industry. Problem is, to STAY in our industry as anything other than a tech, he’s had to go back to college as an adult and check that “degree box”.

  • elviouslyqueer

    not to mention a survey of how many Republicans would like to punch anyone who uses the word “academe.”

    After doing various statistical analyses including Paired T-Tests, Chi-Square Test,
    ANOVA, ANCOVA, Repeated Measures ANOVA, Factor Analysis, and Cluster Analysis, I feel fairly confident that the n=AOT,K.

    • Spurning Beer

      I should point out that Republicans do not employ measures of central tendency, and their distributions are highly skewed.

      • Oblios_Cap

        They are acquainted with the concept of “mean”.

    • msanthropesmr

      You forgot the Wil!cox!son signed test.

      • aureolaborealis

        And the Wilcoxon signed-rank test!

  • Iron Monkey


    where everyone is forced to become a lesbian vegan America-hater.

    Not that there is anything wrong with that.

    • Beanz&Berryz

      NTTAWWT

  • Vecchioivan

    Why do you think they call it a “liberal education,” huh? Answer me that!

  • Beowoof14

    Well sure they hate the media, they are now reporting truthful stuff about 45, rather than keeping a camera on an empty podium waiting for Donnie Two Scoops to show up and spew bs.

  • Daniel Hooper

    This makes me wonder if I rebrand my Cowgirl City story as a commentary on how rural America will take over the liberal elitest cities instead of a adult zombie infestation parody with anthropomorphic cows, it’d sell like hot cakes with the conservative crowd.

  • Skwerl the Taco Hunter

    lesbian vegan America-hater

    These (plus Emasculation 4001) are the new lib ed requirements to graduate from our university.

    • Oblios_Cap

      Due to my allergies to Vegan Baby Buttholes, I was able to CLEP the vegan requirement.

  • Pinkham’s Law
  • bookish

    New detail Don Jr. meeting with Russian lawyer.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-agalarov-idUSKBN19V2AA

    The public relations specialist who arranged a meeting last year between President Donald Trump’s son, Donald Trump Jr., and a Russian attorney said on Monday he did so at the request of singer-songwriter-businessman Emin Agalarov, a Moscow-based client of his.

    Public relations specialist Rob Goldstone said in a statement that Agalarov asked him to help facilitate a meeting between Trump’s son and Russian lawyer Natalya Veselnitskaya, who he said had apparently claimed to have information regarding illegal campaign contributions to the Democratic National Committee.

    • WotsAllThisThen

      Singer-songwriter-businessman? Is he the guy who keeps trying to sell poems at open mic night?

    • NastyBossetti

      Ah, yes, Emin Agalarov, that well-known and highly-regarded singer-songwriter-businessman-international relations specialist.

    • Hemp Dogbane
  • JustPixelz (((Ω)))

    When asked about Trump University, partisan opinions were reversed.

    • Spurning Beer

      Now DBA the Institute for Advanced Real Estate.

      • Three Finger Salute

        Institute for Advanced Real Estate at the Soviet Moscow Remedial Techniversity (I ARE SMRT).

  • msanthropesmr

    You forgot to mention that shit-bag E.D. Hirsch.

  • georgiaburning

    Going to college didn’t make me an athiest, but the “born-again Christians” I met there sure made me wonder.

  • Mr. Blobfish

    The real Marxists, China, point and laugh.

  • proudgrampa

    The Dumbing of America

    • Roger Wilco

      Huh? Betcha meen Dumming doncha ?

  • willi0000000

    “moderate and liberal Republicans”

    is to laugh i am doing!

    • Three Finger Salute

      What’s a conservative Democrat? I thought Dixiecrats just became Republicans.

    • Komsumverweigerer Ron

      They’re extinct now, but there were sightings as late as 1961.

    • Hemp Dogbane

      The only liberal Republican officeholder in recent times was Obama.

  • Joe Beese

    You talk about the negative effect that college educated people have on the country…

    Look at this cockamamie mumbo-jumbo they put out to make American businesses uncompetitive!

    Bunch of unpatriotic bastards ought to be shot.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/150fbe3c0e97e3c29dd898cf09698cb503025f38acf76c80ed0022a71f16074f.png

  • Spurning Beer

    So it’s documented now. “Conservative scholar” is a phrase on a par with “tasteful racism” and “good Grateful Dead song.”

    • Panika MCD

      “conservative scholars” actually read Edmund Burke. we need to take the word back from these people. they are not conservative.

    • Three Finger Salute

      Grateful Dead libelz! I really liked “Touch of Grey.” Speaks to my premature cynicism. Oddly enough, one of the lyrics in particular sticks out for me, because it actually has a lot to do with this very same topic we’re covering here:

      “Cow is given kerosene / Kid can’t read at 17 / The words he knows are all obscene / But it’s all right…”

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YSTeJOxiaw

  • Bitter Scribe

    Hell, the conservatives-crapping-on-colleges thing got started way back when William Fuckhead Buckley published “God and Man at Yale.”

    • mancityRed6

      and yet Buckley is “reasonable” compared to what we see today.

      • Bitter Scribe

        He’s the father of what we see today IMO. Don’t forget that he got his start opposing voting and other civil rights for black Americans.

        • mancityRed6

          point taken

      • Oblios_Cap

        No he wasn’t. He just used bigger words.

        • mancityRed6

          and at least the people who were conservative at the time could understand him.
          otherwise, see my reply to Bitter Scribe.

  • TheGrandWazoo2

    Why go to college when the only question you need answered is ‘You want fries with that’?

    • mancityRed6

      if you don’t at least learn a skill, or if you don’t leave the shit town you were born to, then, yeah.
      I’ve got less than 20 credits but am doing fairly well, thanks. I pay my $835 rent on time.

      • Oblios_Cap

        I tell people all the time that having a college degree doesn’t necessarily mean you’re smart. it just means that you finish things you start. It took me about 20 years to finish mine.

        • mancityRed6

          I’m severely tempted to say, at 43 I can’t go back. but then I remember that my mom got her masters in the mid ’90s and is doing well…she was at least as old as I am now.

          • Mystery_Poster

            I was in my 40s when I got my masters degree.

          • Oblios_Cap

            Me, too.

          • mancityRed6

            mom had her “doctors assistant” degree from some college, but when he retired she didn’t have anywhere to go. it was a very good thing she already had her Associates by then.

  • bookish
  • Martini Ambassador 🍸

    Shorter Republican: Ig’nant and proud of it!

  • TJ Barke

    Dumb people vote Trump, so why encourage people to not be dumb?

    • mancityRed6

      because every year, there are more of them.
      idiocracy turns out to not be a movie and is in fact a documentary from the future?

  • Panika MCD

    1) how is the number of GOPers that high? I mean, sure, everyone who didn’t go to college wants to believe that they were endowed with “common sense” and “street smarts” in lieu of any academic fortitude–which is not really a given at all. but the business community has been worried for years about having enough qualified workers. according to Georgetown University’s (yeah, fuck you anti-intellectuals) Center for Education and the Workforce, 65% of jobs in this country will require some sort of college credential by 2020. https://cew.georgetown.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Recovery2020.ES_.Web_.pdf this is not to say, trade workers, that you need an actual degree. what it does mean is that technology is advancing at a rapid pace and you’re not going to get all the training you need–yes, even in an 11 year master tradesman program–without spending some time in a classroom because you’re just not going to have enough hands-on opportunities for certain things that will become more common. so you’re going to have to take some classes at the local community college from people in your field.

    2) in TX, we only have 38% of 25-34 year olds with some sort of college credential (35% with an associate’s degree or higher). hence, we have started TX60X30 (and we even have lapel pins) because while Filling the Gaps did get more people from our state’s minority populations (one to be the majority soon!) into college, we did not improve on the numbers of them graduating. while 70-75% of jobs by 2030 will need some sort of college credential, we don’t think that fully doubling the number of college grads or college credentialed is quite achievable in 15 years, so we’ve set our goal at 60% along with several other states that don’t want to watch their workforces go down the tubes per recommendations from the Lumina Foundation (only UT and WA have higher goals). https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/08/06/texas-wants-60-percent-young-adults-hold-college-degrees-2030

    3) and don’t get so snide CA–38% of your jobs will require a bachelor’s degree or higher by 2030 and only 33% of your population is expected to have that–you’re looking at a 1.1 million shortfall in that area! http://www.ppic.org/publication/will-california-run-out-of-college-graduates/

    4) given the right-leaningness of the business community around the country, I would think the Chambers of Commerce would have beaten it into their members that college education is a good and necessary thing! I would think even our Fox n’ Fiends would have figured this out by now also too. and that the good people of NC would have figured out that the only way to get more right leaning professors at your university is for more right leaners to get colllege degrees in the first place and paying the professors a decent wage in the second place. http://www.charlotteobserver.com/opinion/article97341242.html

    5) as ever and as always, I don’t think we should call these assholes “conservatives”. they need to be bitch slapped upside the head with a copy of “Reflections on the Revolution in France” by Edmund Burke as it is the screed that made him “The Father of Conservatism” and he seems to think that slow change based on the best information available–yes, that which comes out of those very academic institutions:
    Our political system is placed in a just correspondence and symmetry with the order of the world, and with the mode of existence decreed to a permanent body composed of transitory parts; wherein, by the disposition of a stupendous wisdom, moulding together the great mysterious incorporation of the human race, the whole, at one time, is never old, or middle-aged, or young, but in a condition of unchangeable constancy, moves on through the varied tenour of perpetual decay, fall, renovation, and progression. Thus, by preserving the method of nature in the conduct of the state, in what we improve we are never wholly new; in what we retain we are never wholly obsolete.

    also too the businesses academic institutions provide qualified minds to:
    Society is indeed a contract. Subordinate contracts for objects of mere occasional interest may be dissolved at pleasure – but the state ought not to be considered as nothing better than a partnership agreement in a trade of pepper and coffee, calico or tobacco, or some other such low concern, to be taken up for a little temporary interest, and to be dissolved by the fancy of the parties. It is to be looked on with other reverence; because it is not a partnership in things subservient only to the gross animal existence of a temporary and perishable nature. It is a partnership in all science; a partnership in all art; a partnership in every virtue, and in all perfection. As the ends of such a partnership cannot be obtained in many generations, it becomes a partnership not only between those who are living, but between those who are living, those who are dead, and those who are to be born.
    http://www.constitution.org/eb/rev_fran.htm

    in short: fucking fuckers are not conservative and care little about the survival of American businesses if they’re anti-book learnin’. they also too have 0 common sense or street smarts.

  • msanthropesmr

    I’m sorry – but some comments make me a little uncomfortable

    There is nothing wrong with not wanting a college education.

    When you want your pipes fixed, you want a plumber. No college needed – but good training and a good work ethic.

    When you want electric to go to the right places, you get an electrician. Again, no college needed, but you do need to understand electric

    When your house is hot, you need an AC tech.

    When you want to discuss dialectic, you get a rhetorician

    What is wrong is demonizing the other – be it the worker at fast food, or the collitch professor. Every job is worthy – every person is worthy of dignity in their labors, be it discussing Proust, or cleaning shit up.

    • Panika MCD

      because there’s not enough hands on experience for certain new technology in the trades, a lot of the trades programs now require some sort of college credential–not a degree, but they’re going to have to spend some time in a classroom at the local community college if they want to be a master electrician or master plumber.

      I totally agree that we should not look down on the trades. it takes 11 years to gain the title of Master–I got mine in 5–but we need to look at what the field now requires and be honest with trades people. much of the information can be garnered in career path dual credit courses in high school, though.

      • msanthropesmr

        Presactly.

        EDUCATION is important
        COLLEGE is not

        • Panika MCD

          umm…college credentials are and will increasingly be important. that’s not the same thing as a college degree.

          • msanthropesmr

            I don’t think so, and I say this as an employee of a collitch. Education – and specific education is vital – but the current college system is increasingly obsolete to train folks to do what they need to do. Credentials? Yes – college? No – I think increasingly not.

          • Panika MCD

            read my comment below. I got all the linkies!

          • msanthropesmr

            I think those projections are flawed, because they don’t consider the rise of micro-credentialing.

          • Panika MCD

            sounds like a college credential done in a mostly online format–but they still require students to go to seminars. so…pretty similar to taking an online course from a community college. you’re splitting hairs here based on the words and not the content.

          • msanthropesmr

            No, it’s actually a pretty big difference – not semantic – it has to do with how the state gets involved in accreditation of the program. Which dangerously, the state does not get involved with certain types of credentials…

          • Panika MCD

            that’s still not touching whether the content and how the information is provided is any different from going to a community college. you’re still splitting hairs because states don’t apply that differently whether you were in a “micro-credentialing” program through Edutopia or a local community college.

          • Mystery_Poster

            Volkswagen in TN has a cool collaboration program with Chattanooga State College. 3 years of electrical engineering school-training and then you walk into a 40k job. I can’t remember the particulars.

            You are correct, even the limited number of factory jobs require some kind of post high-school training.

            As a country, we need more partnerships between businesses and colleges.

          • msanthropesmr

            Ehn….

          • Panika MCD

            those are becoming more common. generally the businesses collaborate with the local colleges and tech schools to create programs that apply to the workforce needs of those areas. VW has the same program in TX, but I can’t remember which schools they’re partnering with. Dow Chemical has several.

          • BigCSouthside

            I work in business Intel and data automation. I’m a fucking history major lol

          • Three Finger Salute

            You must have at least some mathy-sciency brain capacity. I never really so much as “got” algebra.

          • BigCSouthside

            Failed advanced math multiple times in college, partially because I just hated school and partially because I didn’t see a point. It’s amazing how quick you can learn that shit when people hand you money to do it.

          • Oblios_Cap

            My group is paying for me to get a graduate certificate. I’m almost 60, and am doing just fine.

          • Resistance Fighter Astraea

            College is not job training, though. Reducing on the job training is making it harder for people to transition from college to a position in their career.

          • msanthropesmr

            Except it is – even if it is to teach you how to think.

          • BigCSouthside

            I think post WWII college was real job training. There was a pretty narrow set of marketable majors, you hopped in one and went. Somewhere between then and now it mutated, based on supply and demand. I have s bullshit major, but I see some of the stuff offered now and am blown away that universities are allowed to sell this shit.

        • How about quality education is important? And that education can be at a high school, trade school, or college. The way you are saying it sounds like education is only for having a job. Sometimes education is just for having having interesting things to think about as well.

          • msanthropesmr

            Except – student motivation is tied dramatically to the axiology of what the student studies. So – having interesting things to think about doesn’t do it for every student.

          • Which is why we need both, not one or the other. Learning to learn keeps people relevant when their trade changes. I am not saying everyone needs to go to college, in fact, I think that we stress it too much in high schools now. But I do think we need to foster some sort of ability to continue learning in everyone to their ability. Otherwise people go obsolete as their trade changes.

          • msanthropesmr

            I agree.

          • Sometimes a big problem with high schools is that teachers are not allowed to bring their experience to the classroom for fear of offending parents who believe that knowing stuff will make their kids try stuff. For example, I have degrees in chemistry and pharmacology. I taught parabolas as the flight path of a basketball to a class of students who mostly all played basketball. Principal wanted to know why we were talking about sports in algebra class. I taught how molecules interact in 3-D by discussing receptor-drug interactions, principal wants to know why we are talking about drugs in chemistry class. In general, when I made the material relevant to my students’ lives, they talked about it outside of class, some parent complained, I got reprimanded, told to teach to the test and my students got less interested.
            My point is that if we make classroom material relevant people do learn and stay curious. And whichever educational level they feel comfortable reaching will help them and help them to stay engaged in life. That is where the anti-education thing really gets to me. I respect people who think, no matter what their degree is.

          • Three Finger Salute

            And then there’s my biology/sex-ed class that taught nothing but “you’re going to get AIDS if you lust after a Backstreet Boy” and “people who make out are a used piece of scotch tape”. At least they kept the bands fresh and relevant for the time. I think that teacher (semen-ary student) is in jail for “hands-on interactive tutoring”, but at least nowadays the same curriculum probably substitutes One Direction for the Backstreet Boys. And a decade prior probably mentioned New Kids on the Block.

          • Three Finger Salute

            But education without a job is a really expensive overdue fine on a library card. The United States does not have much of a “safety net” and demonizes those who do end up on public assistance — even to the point of physical violence against them. It’s no picnic to be unemployed anywhere in the world, even in ostensible paradises like Canada and Scandinavia, but it’s not necessarily the life-or-death bare-knuckle survival scenario to which the United States condemns its poor and unemployed as punishment for “not making smart decisions”.

      • jesterpunk

        Also look at how everything is becoming “smarter” so even the AC guy or fridge repairman will need to understand how computers work to understand the errors and how to fix things. Its the same with mechanics, cars are getting more complicated then they used to be so they need to understand not only the mechanical parts they need to understand the computer and what it does and how to work on it.

        • Panika MCD

          exactly.

          • jesterpunk

            My father in law was a mechanic and he can fix just about anything with older vehicles, the newer stuff he has no idea what to do with the complicated issues involving the engine or any of the sensors because its not a physical thing its controlled by the computer and depends on the specific year and model car. So the only things he does with newer cars is the simple things like changing the oil, spark plugs and wiring for that. Everything else he takes to another younger mechanic he trusts with all the tools and computers to work on it.

        • BigCSouthside

          Shit, I pulled apart my dishwasher to fix it a while back and you almost have to have a fucking EE degree to figure those things out now

          • msanthropesmr

            Eh…..
            If it’s a Bosch – they underrated the relay on the main board. It’s a 5 dollar part from Amazon. Four solder points.

          • BigCSouthside

            Yeah I know little about that stuff. When shit breaks I like ripping it apart out of curiosity more than anything in hopes I can solve the problem. Sometimes it works out, but this dishwasher blew me away with all the sensors and stuff all over it

        • h4rr4r

          The nice thing is electric cars are simpler. No more silly ICE.

      • mancityRed6

        true, but that’s because they have to know the codes for the areas they’ll be in.
        me, as a CNC machinist? I just have to know the same G and M codes as everyone else does.
        I took a couple of classes way back when I was just starting but they were paid for and I really didn’t learn much from what I already knew. but it got me to $14 an hour in ’01 which I’ve just now caught up with when you factor in inflation.

        • Panika MCD

          you going to retire before you need CE or are you going to take the CE?

          • mancityRed6

            retire? hah! I really hope I don’t live that long.

        • msanthropesmr

          Hey ManCity – G28. You’re drunk

          • mancityRed6

            not yet, it’s just 1 here and I’ve just started.

          • msanthropesmr

            You don’t have to G28 – you could also G30.

          • mancityRed6

            I’m stuck in G00 mode right now.

          • mancityRed6

            we use G54 with the lathes I run.

    • BigCSouthside

      I’ve been poorly articulating a point down thread and I think you hit it better than I did. Demonizing one over the other. There is a remarkable campaign in this country to not want to evolve the economy, like we should mine and make steel and not evolve.

      Where I get super pissed when it comes to education is when they fuck with grade school and high school curriculum.

      College isn’t for everybody, but where does that demonization of education come from?

      • msanthropesmr

        It comes from some educated folks making fun of folks who work with their hands.

        • BigCSouthside

          Now I kinda got to chicken or egg this. Did blue collar see white collar and be like “fuck those yuppie pricks” or did white collar see blue collar and say “those poor dumb bastards”. Or are people just pre wired to be tribal dicks.

          • msanthropesmr

            Impossible to tell.

        • Martini Ambassador 🍸

          Are you really saying that the majority of conservatives as found in this survey that are disparaging higher education are doing it because of butthurt over being belittled by those damn poindexters? That seems an oversimplification. Maybe that’s one cause, but I hardly think it’s the only one.

          • BigCSouthside

            I think there has been a pervasive coordinated campaign to confirm the bias of many of those surveyed. Whoever invented the terms “liberal elites” or “coastal elites” did a really fucking good job wrapping an agenda around it

          • msanthropesmr

            No, no. That’s just one cause. I agree with you.

      • unmasked mumbler

        Conservatives don’t want brown people or “white trash” to get educated and “take” well-paying jobs from their own children. That’s really all there is to it. Artificially limiting job competition to favor their friends and family.

        • BigCSouthside

          Guess that’s kind of a tale as old as time. .

    • Bitter Scribe

      Nancy Nall has a good take on that today.

    • TJ Barke

      Take your considerate, compassionate, and rational views back to musloville, commie!

      • msanthropesmr

        Where the hell is musloville?

        • TJ Barke

          You tell me, pinko!

    • LeighBowery’sLuxuryComedy

      No, there’s nothing wrong with not wanting a college education (if you leave aside that these lowered expectations also tend to result in lower wages and decreased opportunities – but never mind all that).

      What’s wrong is the attitude that anyone who DOES want, or worse, possesses, a higher education, should be viewed as Untrustworthy. That the intelligentsia is somehow The Enemy, and that ‘book-larnin’ makes one suspect. Because of course, people who have been exposed to a broader curriculum are theoretically better able to think for themselves and less likely to accept simplified, boilerplate, knee-jerk responses to complex social problems. And it’s increasingly clear that the Regressive party is heading pell-mell towards the point of cultural revolution and the associated purges.

    • h4rr4r

      Why can’t one person be more than one thing? Specialization is for insects.

      • msanthropesmr

        What if you really want to do just one thing?

        • h4rr4r

          Wait a couple years.

          • msanthropesmr

            My Jobs, in order
            1) Built Swimming Pools
            2) Maintenance
            3) Drill Press Operator
            4) Cook
            5) Disc Jockey
            6) Sound Engineer
            7) Chemist
            8) Process Engineer
            9) Manager
            10) High School Teacher
            11) Grant Manager
            12) Manager of Assessment and Accreditation for School of Ed

            I’m 46.

    • (trades training is a form of higher education)

    • mancityRed6

      everything I know…well, except for edgefinders…I’ve learned on the job.
      I programmed a machine to make this:
      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/09e8d5ed7c07e6846be13ec160bdd7343e6a180e8e3718ca268b61a4360fcd61.jpg

      • Panika MCD

        you were supposed to censor that. my virgin eyes!

        • mancityRed6

          actually, it’s a nuclear part. it’s for sensing temperatures near the core.

          • Panika MCD

            my non-nuclear virgin eyes!

      • msanthropesmr

        Nice. Pressure port? Temperature well?

        That’s a thing of beauty.

        • mancityRed6

          thermowell, yes.
          and it’s a pain in the ass to run. there’s a .380 =/-.01 hole that runs down the inside and leaves about .100 material on the tip.

      • goonemeritus

        But can you single point those threads on a Hardinge toolroom lathe?

        • mancityRed6

          the only hardinge we have is used for polishing since they 5s’ed the other hardinge out as wasted space.
          I fix pipe threads on parts on a manual lathe, and I can still run a manual mill, but that’s as far as it goes.

          • goonemeritus

            I went to engineering school long enough ago that they made us learn to use a mill, lathe and shaper as well a metrology of course. We had to hob a gear as well as make a cube of any size, square and to within .001″

        • mancityRed6

          and bonus points to you for even knowing the name.

    • Jennaratrix

      Absolutely; but denigrating a college education to your supporters as a means to keep them ignorant and yourself in power is a whole other thing.

      Our oldest told us when he graduated high school that he just didn’t think college was for him; and despite that I have a graduate degree (which was the reason he was nervous about telling me his thoughts), I agreed with him. I told him that if he didn’t think college was for him, then he shouldn’t waste his time or his money. He wanted to join the Navy, and we fully supported that. I did tell him to take advantage of any educational opportunities afforded to him through the military, and he’s done that. He’s a Seabee, he’s learning construction and heavy equipment operating. His father has a GED, and is a senior manager in charge of all supervisors of a multi-billion dollar a year grocery distribution warehouse. A college education is not all it’s cracked up to be; but willful ignorance and looking down your nose at those who get an education as elitist isn’t all it’s cracked up to be, either.

      I share your discomfort with some of the comments; but I’m willing to give Wonketteers the benefit of the doubt that it’s mostly not meant.

      • msanthropesmr

        I am too, but I would be in remiss if I didn’t say I was uncomfortable.

        • Jennaratrix

          I understand, and I’m glad you spoke up.

    • (((fka_donnie_d)))

      Here’s the secret (r)(tm), from somebody who has been in college longer ‘n anybody’s s’posed ta be.

      Colleges suck at teaching people, especially when it comes to science,
      engineering, and IT. People who are really good, who Think Big,
      Original Thoughts and Publish Important Papers and Win Prizes,
      absolutely hate teaching. This is recognized in a _very_ limited fashion
      by the recitation system, where semi-interested grad students are paid to help people with homework during “class” time. If you want to succeed in college (and life) you need to be able to teach yourself shit.

      The purpose of college, at least for technical stuff, is to _make sure you can handle work at a professional level_. Then you either go do research, get a job, or (worst case scenario) go teach at a community college.

      Making colleges suck less at teaching is a serious strategic problem.

      • aureolaborealis

        People who are really good, who Think Big,
        Original Thoughts and Publish Important Papers and Win Prizes,
        absolutely hate teaching.

        And they are often terrible at it.

        • (((fka_donnie_d)))

          Well, yes. If you hate doing something the assumption is probably that you’re not too good at it.

          • aureolaborealis

            YOUR TEXT HERE!!!

        • (((fka_donnie_d)))

          PS – how you do dem blockquotes?

  • Michael Smith

    Its not that they are against forcing beliefs down someone’s throat – its quite the opposite actually.

    Right now, Americans have options as to whether they want a good, academic education or a crazy wingnut Biblical Ark engineering degree from Liberty University. They can choose whether they want fact-based news from journalists, or uninformed propaganda rants spewed by failed models.

    So Wingnuts think American is being destroyed by the fact that you don’t have to get your news or education from idiots if you don’t want to.

  • See? This is what happens when you’re allowed to take the U out of colour, labour, favour etc… Slippery slope to hating all knowledge!

    • mancityRed6

      metric spelling is unAmerican

    • OutOfOrbit

      Should have payed for that tyre with a cheque.

      • Jennaratrix

        True story: I have a British car (yes, yes, like all other British cars, it just likes it better indoors). The other day I needed to air up a tire, and I was looking in the owner’s manual for the proper pressure. And I was getting PISSED because the damn owner’s manual had no listing in the index for tire pressure, tire size, tire ANYTHING. I’m all, what the fuck? Am I just supposed to guess? And then I remembered I ought to be looking for tyres.

        Damn Brits.

        • OutOfOrbit

          There are some knowledges we commoners are not born with.

        • mancityRed6

          what car, might I ask?

          • Jennaratrix

            2003 Land Rover Disco.

          • mancityRed6

            American? with the Buick V6?
            *edit
            nevermind, it actually has a Rover engine.

          • Jennaratrix

            Nope; manufactured in the UK, with a 4.6L V8, thank god. The beast weighs 5,000 pounds.

          • mancityRed6

            I used to watch those Camel sponsored trips across the rain forest. they are a sight to behold.

          • mancityRed6

            and that is kinda cool.

          • Jennaratrix

            Yeah, I just started driving it recently, it was my husband’s car for 7 years. Gas mileage is pitiful, but it’s sort of stupid nice. Especially for an older car. Not a great picture, but here it is in the garage when we brought it home in ’09. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/48fa61f7b0650abcdb08aec7b311a69e1dab5af2038e12af9389f99b8bf90dac.jpg

          • mancityRed6

            the ex has one of the newer Disco models. now that she’s back to being a solicitor again I expect that to change.

          • Jennaratrix

            I’m going to drive this thing into the ground; it’s paid off, and we’ve put a lot of money into it. I’d like to get it to at least 300k miles, we’ll see how that goes. It’s holding up really well; none of the cosmetic problems you usually start to run into (sagging headliner, missing and busted up trim, cracked headlights, jacked up foglights, that sort of thing).

          • mancityRed6

            one of my friends bought a mazda protoge from his sister with 100k miles on it in ’99. he got close to 300k. I’m nearly 80k on my mazda, I’m looking forward to the idea of a cashiers check for my next car.
            oh, and good luck.

        • aureolaborealis

          Reasonable auto manufacturers will also list recommended tire/tyre pressures with a sticker somewhere on the driver’s door. Usually the ‘edge’ of the door when it’s open.

          https://www.cstatic-images.com/stock/1170×1170/66/330862467-1426262610566.jpg

          • Jennaratrix

            Yeah, “Land Rover” and “reasonable” in the same sentence doesn’t really work. No sticker on/near my door. It’s entirely possible that there was one originally, I guess, because I know the car was involved in an accident before I owned it and some body parts were replaced.

  • bookish
  • rosenbomb

    My ex bf’s parents were super fundie. He went to UCLA, and his mother frequently called all college students “elitists.”

    They lap up whatever Fox News gives them, even if it smells and tastes like piss.

  • UncleTravelingMatt

    Republicans don’t hate higher learning. Most of those bitches are more pedigreed than anything at the WKC show — all the right prep schools; Ivy League as undergrads; internships at Merril Lynch or McGraw-Hill or Booze Allen Hamilton; Harvard, Princeton, Georgetown for grad school . . . . The lower-middle-class right-wing dupes hate higher education.

    • Correction: The lower middle class dupes are told by the upper class jerks to hate higher education.
      Why?
      A less educated population is easier to control.

      • Jennaratrix

        THIS. All of this. Ignorant, uneducated people believe what you tell them. Just look at this bullshit over fake news. The people with the reins are all fully educated; and they are attempting to deny it to the plebes, the same way they do with wealth. And the dumber they are, the more they lap this shit up. It’s infuriating.

        • It may make you feel better to know that it is ultimately self defeating. Lies work like a balloon- they keep growing and growing and growing and eventually they will reach max capacity and explode.
          And, historically speaking, when the masses explode, it is generally very very bad for the powers that be.
          Unfortunately, they sometimes take stuff out on whomever is handy also, and until the dust settles it is best to lay low.

          • Jennaratrix

            This is all very true; and as a history type person, I’m watching all of this with a lot of interest. The problem, as you’ve alluded to, is that when shit blows up it’s really ugly for everyone for however long it takes for it all to settle back down. And that can sometimes be decades.

          • Absolutely XD I find it helps to think of things in the grand scale of geologic time. Makes it much easier to deal with.

    • Vecchioivan

      “Hain’t we got all the fools in town on our side? And hain’t that a big enough majority in any town?”

  • Vecchioivan

    I think the GOP has a point here. When you think about it, literacy itself is overrated. It is certainly unnecessary for the masses of low-paid workers that we’re going to need in the near future in Great Again America. Just teach them how to press the little button on the cash register with the French-fries or the eggmcmuffin on it and there’s the solution to the tax burden imposed on productive Americans by public schools.

    • Three Finger Salute

      And that’ll work out really well when there’s cheaper robots to do the same thing.

      Also, that’s Freedom Fries, you communist. /s

  • Three Finger Salute

    I do wish it was a bit easier to get a decent-paying job with one of those oft-demonized burger flipper degrees. I actually got told in so many words to take a hike from my uni’s own career center. They’d actually stopped taking appointments for the liberal arts students because none of the counselors knew where to “place them.” I tried going to a college career fair and got turned away just the same. My own academic advisor told me I’d wasted four years and should have gone to trade school instead, if I wasn’t cut out for a business degree or something in the sciences. Or (and this was a woman saying this) “marry someone who did.”

    Most of the humanities and social science professors were adjuncts by the time I graduated — and a good half were being let go, to make room for more STEM, medical and business faculty. What course offerings they did have were held mostly on the weekends, either on-campus or in spare classrooms at local high schools, or shifted online (or “hybrid” classes with an in-person and online component). The Blackboard system was always having glitches, and the IT staff had a real superiority complex about how their skills were needed for the lit/history/psych staff, but it wasn’t the other way around — the techs could make bank without ever cracking a poetry book in their whole lives.

    The library was always having end-of-semester book sales to unload their inventory, because it was being remodeled and converted into an “information center” complete with 3D printers, a robotics lab, and all other kinds of hi-tech stuff. The year after I graduated, almost 2/3 of the textbooks became e-books — no more paper copies, and only “licensed” for a limited time. The bookstore was now a combination gift shop and supplies outlet that sold coffee mugs, keychains and the usual campus-branded tchotchkes, along with a whole slew of computer-related items (it’s actually a campus OfficeMax, if you can believe that — kind of like how colleges have chain restaurants at the cafeteria).

    Age-wise, I was sandwiched somewhere in-between the regular 22-year-old seniors and the older students going back to school in their 40s and 50s. But I felt a haunting sense of obsolescence being there. My younger peers were probably going to take that advisor’s, well, advice and either marry someone who does have a good job or be stuck at Wendy’s ad infinitum. The older ones — mostly laid-off factory workers — were just going to die off, but at least possibly hold off dementia for a few years while they learned something new.

    Education for its own sake doesn’t have any practical value in America. I don’t know about other countries. But at least from my own experience, there’s no ROI in a BA.

    • I told you this the other day, and this is anecdotal just based on my own experience but still:
      I have both a science degree and my liberal arts course work.
      I have gotten more jobs based upon my abilities from my liberal arts work than my science degree. No, not /in/ liberal arts, but plenty of jobs, some of which are bona fied career type work (various having of babbies and moving to support hubby’s work necessitated lots of jobs over the year- about 16 to date, since graduation).
      Short version: Your advisor is a hack, and should be fired.

      • Resistance Fighter Astraea

        No one knows what to do with a liberal arts major, but my writing skills have always been valued in any of my professional jobs. People just don’t understand what something like an English degree actually teaches.

        • I cannot tell you how many interviews I have had where I get asked “That’s great- did you take writing, though? How about Statistics?”
          Srsly.

          • Resistance Fighter Astraea

            “So, you want to be a teacher?”

          • Three Finger Salute

            Brrr. Public speaking. No thanks.

          • Three Finger Salute

            I took stats because you had to for the sociology minor. I hated it and almost had a breakdown. I seriously cannot math.

          • ahughes798

            I cannot math at all. I feel your pain.

        • Panika MCD

          I use my degrees everyday!

    • Me not sure

      Employers want dumb, cheap, and disposable. I always have valued education for its own sake and feel that people with curious and inventive minds will excel
      in any number of fields not directly related to their educational field of study. given time to learn the job.

    • Panika MCD

      I got a bachelor’s in English and a masters in creative writing – poetry. I work in politics and state policy–with, yes, stress on the writing. I like better what TX Commissioner of Higher Education Raymund Paredes and Texas Association of Business ED Bill Hammond had to say about liberal arts degrees: liberal arts graduates are more creative and flexible–businesses likey! but there needs to be some component of those degree programs that show the future graduates how others have applied their degrees to the fields they work in.

      when you think about it, that sounds about right. don’t get rid of the tracks, enhance them.

      • Spotts1701, Resistance Pilot

        This is what I found out after I got my JD – I was entering the field just as there was a massive contraction from Wall Street and other firms laying off associates. Not a lot of places were looking for wet-behind-the-ears newly minted folks when there were experienced trial attorneys circulating resumes.
        Ended up bouncing around (career center was no help other than to send me a list of firms to cold-call), but landed in a Human Resources job and worked my way up. Lots of lean years, but times are good now. Wish someone had been around 10-12 years ago to give me the advice that you don’t need to be a lawyer – the degree will get you in the door in a lot of places that don’t seem to fit the mold.

        • Panika MCD

          tell that to all the people who think I should go back to school for a JD or LD.

          • Spotts1701, Resistance Pilot

            Gladly. I mean, the first question I would ask is “How do you think more education would be beneficial to her career? Will it somehow open the door to advancement in ways that experience won’t?”

          • Panika MCD

            I’m going to get a doctorate in something, but I breezed through 2 degrees in 5 years by knowing what exactly I wanted. wanting to tell people “It’s Dr. Panika” when I’m feeling sassy isn’t a good enough reason.

      • Mystery_Poster

        That’s exactly what my son has. Just got the MFA. Doesn’t want the doctorate now and I’ve been concerned about him. You’ve given me hope that there will be something good out there for him.

    • Oblios_Cap

      There’s a great deal of ROI in learning how to think critically, no matter what the major.

    • weejee

      I think a BA is quite worthwhile. weejee & associates is an engineering firm, so we do lean towards STEM. That said, much of what we do is for public works, so that requires being able to communicate with folks, the public, who have no idea what a differential equation is, and likely care less.

      Present yourself as a problem solver, someone with a broad background, and who can think outside of the box. Up-sell your BA, you worked hard to get it.

      • Three Finger Salute

        That’s the other hing. I can write, but I clam up in public. (I know, insert clam joke here…) And nobody ever helped me not to; as I’d said, the career center and the job fairs turned me away. I’m a paradox. I have the personality to be an introverted coder in a cubicle, but none of the capacity to actually, you know, code. Telecommuting would be my ideal, but… the catch-22 is that you have to get the job first, work there a little while and then come up with a reason why you want/need to telecommute. “Solitary confinement in prison would be a vacation for me, because I’d prefer never to see the light of day or any of my annoying coworkers again” is bound to raise a red flag.

        I didn’t have to go for an interview when applying to college. (Junior college is open enrollment. Usually you don’t have to interview as a transfer to state U either.) So I never really understood why I’d have to afterward or what the point of “the interview” actually is. I mean, what do personality questionnaires ripped from the pages of Cosmo or a listicle on BuzzFeed tell the recruiter about how well I can do pivot tables or write a budget report? “What Friends character are you” — I dunno, the duck? Chandler, if I can stay in the box? What’s that got to do with my responsibilities at the job?

        A place like Facebook would probably push me to the brink of suicide. All those skateboard ramps, open floor plans, “empowerment” seminars, and beach retreats — brrr… please, boss, don’t make me lean in… I’ll be good, really, I promise — don’t make me negotiate my salary…!

        • Spotts1701, Resistance Pilot

          Some places like to do that to see if you can think creatively or laterally rather than just in a linear mode. Some use a writing sample test in the same manner – not to test what you know (what you don’t know they can train you on) but how you think.

        • Mike Steele

          Lady MS here: Much like my birth father, I could do a 10-minute stand-up routine just holding the fridge open. MS, on the other hand, is brilliant, funny, obsessively well-read … and yet, like you, introverted to the extent that he made his living as a skilled machinist and electrician, working primarily alone. Interviews for those sorts of jobs, which often pay fairly well and have benefits, did not typically stray into esoteric inkblot tests or “on a scale of 1-10…” exercises. Basically: Can you be on time? Do you have steel-toed shoes? Okay, now piss in this bottle.

      • Eileen Besse

        Thank you! [BA in English long ago and far away.]

    • Nockular cavity

      And yet, half the job postings say, “good communication skills a must.”

      Hm. And what branch of the university would teach these “communication skills,” pray tell?

      • Three Finger Salute

        Funny thing, there was a “communications” major — but it wasn’t interpersonal communications. It was actually computer networking. Telecom 101. None of the papers I wrote ever taught me how to not be terrified of talking to people and, like I said, the career center told me to get lost. Do companies do email interviews instead of face to face? I can do email. Can’t do the Q&A interrogation session without feeling like I’m on Law & Order…

        • Spotts1701, Resistance Pilot

          Yeah, sounds like your career center really did you a disservice.
          Interviews are difficult – I still get the sweats about ’em, and I was a competitive public speaker. You can think you did everything right and still not get the job, or you can feel like you completely biffed it and end up getting an offer.
          I don’t know of any companies that do e-mail interviews. We do Skype for some folks if they’re out-of-area applicants, but that’s about the limit.
          Do you know anyone who would be non-judgmental? I know it’s not easy, but the only way to improve is to practice.

          • Three Finger Salute

            Do you know anyone who would be non-judgmental? I know it’s not easy, but the only way to improve is to practice.

            No. I don’t have friends at all and my mother can’t hear too well and has other health problems to boot. She hasn’t been in the workforce in some 25 years either, so wouldn’t even know what to pretend-ask. I asked her too. She said so. And that she wouldn’t be able to give me a fair assessment because, well, she’s my mother.

          • Spotts1701, Resistance Pilot

            That’s fair. I’d be willing to try – this is my field of work, so I know how to conduct interviews and provide feedback in a constructive manner.
            Totally up to you – I know I’m asking you to step out of your comfort zone, so if you don’t want to do that I will take no offense. But the offer is there.

        • uniquename72

          “None of the papers I wrote ever taught me how to not be terrified of talking to people”

          You get out of college what you put in. Nobody’s going to hold your hand and teach you to talk to people. You just do it. (And honestly, if you’re “terrified of talking to people” you don’t belong in a university at all.)

  • bookish

    http://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/donald-trump-is-dragging-down-america?google_editors_picks=true

    On Sunday night, Trump disavowed part of what he had said earlier in the day, writing in another tweet, “The fact that President Putin and I discussed a Cyber Security unit doesn’t mean I think it can happen. It can’t-but a ceasefire can,& did!” This message illustrated Uhlmann’s point about the half-life of Trump’s utterances, and also confirmed the truth of the Australian journalist’s over-all conclusion about the President’s trip to the G-20 meeting: “So what did we learn? We learned that Donald Trump has pressed fast forward on the decline of the United States as a global leader.”

  • Anna Rompage

    Who needs to spend all that money on all that fancy book learning when there’s millions of people ordained by a number of churches, who will stand on a pulpit every Sunday, and tell you what to think, and everything you need to know, about the only book that really matters anymore in the US?

    • Jennaratrix

      MIL, is this you?

    • mancityRed6

      that reminds me, I really need to get that license from the church of the subgenius.

    • Oblios_Cap

      Not only that, but to believe in that book in its entirety, you have to be able to successfully hold contradicting positions and pay the church 10% of your salary for the joy of being able to put up with nosey and judgmental people!

    • Persistent Tennessee Rain

      I’m still shocked by a poster who, last week, insulted me for using the word, “malapropism,” correctly in a sentence and then lambasted my habit of doing the New York Times crossword puzzle as being, “an unimaginable waste of time.” I hate that I have to share the same space with people who think, “Naw, that’s okay – I don’t have to learn anything else. I know enough already.”

      That’s why I like being a Wonkette. I’m sure that, if comments were allowed, I’d find you all to be pretty smart people.

  • bookish

    Greasing the wheels of business.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/kremlin-denies-knowing-of-donald-trump-jr-meeting-with-russian-lawyer-during-2016-campaign/2017/07/10/c2bfee34-6566-11e7-a1d7-9a32c91c6f40_story.html?utm_term=.df58760e57a6

    A meeting between Donald Trump Jr. and a Russian lawyer was set up at the request of Emin Agalarov, a Russian pop star whose Kremlin-connected family has done business with President Trump in the past, according to the person who arranged the meeting.

    Rob Goldstone, a music publicist who represents Agalarov, confirmed on Monday that he requested the Trump Tower meeting at Agalarov’s request. Emin Agalarov and his father, Aras Agalarov, a wealthy Moscow real estate developer, helped sponsor the Trump-owned Miss Universe pageant in Russia in 2013.

    After the pageant, the Agalarovs signed a preliminary deal with Trump to build a tower bearing his name in Moscow, though the deal has been on hold since Trump began running for president.

  • Paperless Tiger

    Just don’t put it on your resume.

    Education and Activities: None.

  • Bill D. Burger

    https://media.giphy.com/media/OlSUgQk2sIlTW/giphy.gif

    *Fox: “The slowest and dumbest chickens are my favorite”

    • “I, myself, am poorly educated!”

    • TJ Barke

      I love people too dumb to see how crooked I am!

  • jaspersdad
    • Jennaratrix

      Not strong enough for that.

    • Wild Cat

      Not even Linda Lovelace could repress that.

    • therblig

      couldn’t they find any pictures where he didn’t look like he was sundowning with a load in his pants?

    • SomeBigRedDog

      That was . . . something.

    • Hemp Dogbane

      I’m waiting for the dance remix feat. Spicy S.

  • DesertedPictures

    I hate the “do you trust the media” questian. Specify: Fox News Msbc, cnn, rt, nyt, washington post… they are all news media. Some I will never trust. Some are quite reliable, if you know their respective biases.

    “The media” isn’t a thing.

    (Same for: do you trust ‘the politicians, the cops and the muppets).

    • Royal Ugly Dude

      That last one was in a PPP poll, I seem to recall.

    • Lance Thrustwell

      I bet you get that idea from the media.

    • cmd resistor

      Wingnut brother is always railing against “the media.” i trust the muppets.

  • Crystalclear12

    Idiocracy here we come!

    • OrG

      It’s in my rearview mirror.

  • Mpeg

    I’d be all FOR higher education if Disqus would benefit from it.
    But it’s behaving like a m-o-r-a-n, for me.
    Ergo, i hate higher education.
    *
    *Almost as much as syllolgisms.hate me!

    • msanthropesmr

      Izzat sung to the tune of Oscar Mayer Weiner?

  • Spotts1701, Resistance Pilot
  • Mystery_Poster

    Back on our agrarian days, wasn’t the only reason people learned to read was so they could read the bible?

    • only after Guttenberg and Martin did their things. Before then, it was best to keep the population from any sort of readin stuff at all. Especially the Bible.

      • Mystery_Poster

        I would think before Guttenberg and Martin, few poor farmers could afford bibles.

        • That is what I meant XD Until those two gents and the resulting age they ushered, poor famers did no bible reading

      • “LeFou, I’m afraid I’ve been thinking”

        “A dangerous pastime.”

        “I know…”

    • Wild Cat

      They wanted to learn how to read The Pillow Book.

      • weejee

        Well the Fountainhead would be a bit rough. Way too many words with more than two syllables.

    • Oblios_Cap

      You needed a priest to read it to you. Why do you think the Catholic Church has such a fixation on speaking Latin?

      • weejee

        Est stultus natus minutatim

        • Eileen Besse

          You Latin good.

        • Oblios_Cap

          I’m glad my 4 years of Latin back in high school still pays off.

      • marxalot

        Because once it gets into the vulgar language, who knows what kinds of hideous folly the uneducated will lead one another into, interpreting holy writ? (side eyes Pastor Bob’s Itty Bitty Baptist Church)

    • The Wanderer

      Back in Ye Olden Days, the only reason you learned to read was to prepare yourself for a religious profession – and, after a while, for being a lawyer.

    • darnyoudarnyoutoheck

      Literacy and numeracy were pretty valuable for running feudal agrarian economies, peasants who could read, add, subtract were likely to run away and get paid actual money for their labour.

  • Poly_Ester

    Is this just the home-schooling effect? If mommy didn’t teach it to me, its not worth knowing.

    • Panika MCD

      no.

    • There’s a religious aspect there too.

      Fundamentalist pastors continue to tell the tale of the faithful young idyllic child that went away to college and came back a godless atheist who thinks gay people are human beings.

      Thus the warning to only send your child to a Christian college or to indoctrinate them with lots of apologetics books before they leave your house.

      • There’s a co worker ish lady in another department here, who is a scientist mind you, who does science, who only wants her precious daughter to apply to Liberty because Safe Christian School!!!!!
        My hubby is all….Does she want to go there? Is it good for her major?
        And lady was all /blank stare.

        • Well, what good are her wishes or career future when we’re talking about making sure she avoids a future where our loving God sets her on fire forever?

        • Spotts1701, Resistance Pilot

          Did co-worker also imply daughter should only go for her “MRS Degree”?

        • therblig

          yeah, but if her daughter goes to an eastern elite school, she gets to do this:

          http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0055/0055_01.asp

    • Jeffery Campbell

      When I get to be King of the World, I am banning the following in this order:

      1. Home schooling
      2. Sandals on men
      3: Banana clips
      4: Everything else that pisses me off (in random order of magnitude)

      • BigCSouthside

        Whoa whoa whoa. By sandals I hope you don’t mean flip flops, because that’s the closest I can get to barefoot in public and I don’t like shoes. Spare the flops, please

        • Jeffery Campbell

          I think you may be okay on a technicality. I don’t consider flip flops footwear.

  • bookish

    Donald Trump Jr. in legal crosshairs.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/10/donald-trump-jr-russia-meeting-legal-danger-240370

    But perhaps far more important, his statements put him potentially in legal crosshairs for violating federal criminal statutes prohibiting solicitation or acceptance of anything of value from a foreign national, as well as a conspiracy to defraud the United States.

    Politically, by discussing such a sensitive topic that could prove embarrassing if revealed, Trump Jr. and the other Trump campaign officials in the room for the meeting with Russian attorney Natalia Veselnitskaya, including Jared Kushner and Paul Manafort, may have also exposed themselves to future blackmail threats, the legal experts said.

    • msanthropesmr

      Future? You mean retroactive?

    • therblig

      hey, 2nd amendment!!! ALL crosshairs are legal

  • RobKanC

    Now tell me about those foreign graduates who take tech jobs from high school hillbillies.

  • Vecchioivan

    Republicans propose new national anthem

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fz8PpSHvBfQ

    • weejee

      Didn’t he write that after his less successful off-Broadway musical ♪ Screwing the Pooch ♪?

  • OneYieldRegular

    When asked about the statistics, Republicans responded “Math is hard,” opened a can of Bud Lite, and plopped onto the sofa to watch [insert sportsball game here].

  • Ezio

    OT: Trump seems to have rubbed off on Macron. Macron says Africa’s problems are “civilizational” and blames it on “women who have 7-8 kids”…

    Check it out. https://mobile.twitter.com/joeprince___/status/884463860736028672

    • If by civilizational he means because Euro colonization robbed them (and is still robbing them!) blind, then sure!

      • Ezio

        His “7-8 kids” comment seems to imply he isn’t talking about that.

        • Three Finger Salute

          It’s about the need for education and reproductive medicines in Africa and the crisis of overpopulation. Very difficult for women to get ahead in life when they don’t have the right to control the size of their families. Not to mention the population crisis bringing about fights for increasingly scarce resources that are quickly dwindling due to climate change and nonstop wars — and worsening the refugee crisis that’s already threatening to tear Europe apart and creating havoc for the refugees who land in Europe and aren’t exactly welcomed with open arms. It’s not the Steve King thing that people are making it out to be.

    • Three Finger Salute

      It might just be a blunt way of saying overpopulation is bad for the environment. He’s not wrong there. The French also tend to be very anticlerical, and the Catholic Church and evangelicals are why foreign aid organizations can’t get reproductive services into Africa. That and education go a long way in empowering women to choose manageable family sizes.

      • Martini Ambassador 🍸

        I listened to the snippit twice and that’s what I got out of it as well, less of a blaming and more of a “here are some issues that we need to help address.” It would be helpful to see the whole speech and get more context.

        • Three Finger Salute

          Trudeau’s government also committed a chunk of money to helping women in the third world access reproductive services after Trump called off the funding. Cue Breitbart all of a sudden fake-caring about impoverished black and brown women in Africa and Central and South America, and running a bullshit headline about how Trudeau wants to genocide black babies like Margaret Sanger. And the usual idiots in the peanut gallery who think Margaret Sanger is his mother.

    • marxalot

      That’s just Frenchness at work, unfortunately. Between the Euro-centrism, the anti-clericalism, and the loooooong history of colonialist narratives where Africa is concerned, this isn’t at all out of character for a French centrist.

  • MynameisBlarney
    • MEAN

    • Robbertjan Brandenburg

      Damn, that made me cough up my drink. :D

    • Jeffery Campbell

      Day. Made. Thank you.

      • MynameisBlarney

        *bows*

        You’re welcome!

  • Lance Thrustwell

    Universities help produce liberals because liberals value facts, history, thought and ideas. However, there is a small hard core of well-educated conservatives that will never go away, and that’s okay. If some smart people want to be selfish, arrogant and entitled, there’s not much we can do about that.

    • mancityRed6

      college teaches you how to think, not just to regurgitate facts on command. that’s the difference.

  • Walter Wellstone

    Conservatives are stupid and willfully ignorant. That’s established knowledge. What’s new? Is it just the percentage?

    • Panika MCD

      they’re not conservatives…they just identify that way because they’ve not been reading history’s conservatives.

  • The Wanderer

    “Ignorance is king. Many would not profit by his abdication. Many enrich themselves by means of his dark monarchy. They are his Court, and in his name they defraud and govern, enrich themselves and perpetuate their power. Even literacy they fear, for the written word is another channel of communication that might cause their enemies to become united.”
    — Walter Miller, A Canticle for Liebowitz

    • weejee

      Great book, that.

      • The Wanderer

        Yep. I tried to take a bit of advice when my writing was criticized: “Read good books before you start writing bad ones.”

        • Jeffery Campbell

          To quote beloved ran Lebowitz: “Think before you speak. Read before you think.”

    • therblig

      “Ignorance is king. Many would not profit by his abdication. Many enrich themselves by means of his dark monarchy. They are his Court, and in his name they defraud and govern, enrich themselves and perpetuate their power. Even literacy they fear, for the written word is another channel of communication that might cause their enemies to become united.”
      — Walter Miller, A Canticle for (((Liebowitz)))

      fixed it for you

      • The Wanderer

        (chuckles)

    • Resistance Fighter Astraea

      I think about that book a lot these days.

      • The Wanderer

        As do I.

        • OutOfOrbit

          I used to think about it a lot, but time goes by and I’ve not seen in anywhere since forever, so I donut have it to reread.

      • Jeffery Campbell

        As do well-read people everywhere.

    • P’jama Pahnts

      A favorite of mine. I loved Brother Francis.

  • PigsDoFly

    I ain’t no needs no smrt macon plasezes talkin bout bookish stuff thiefing my taxes.

    • Lance Thrustwell

      Baconz! Your name has transmogrified!

  • Robbertjan Brandenburg

    As much as I hate to be the devil’s advocate and luckily in this case my arguments are very much different from our old republican friends there is a pretty strong case right now going on in the Netherlands for not letting a university degree being the highest form of education we should all strive to have.

    Here in the Netherlands we have less and less a working class of people who can fix your plumbing, build a house or fix your car. At the same time we have more and more people who can design new plumbing methods, design cars and then there are all the academics who can talk about it a lot. Since everyone can move on on a educational level we have less and less skilled workers and we are now heavily investing in the craftsmen’s professions’ PR because we simply have too much managers and too little skilled laborers.

    • Resistance Fighter Astraea

      If I’m reading the question right, it’s not about whether higher education is necessary for everyone or beneficial for individuals, but whether universities benefit society in general. To me it’s much more troubling that so many say no to that question than if it were a somewhat high number of people rejecting higher education for themselves.

      • Robbertjan Brandenburg

        Oh absolutely. That’s why I started by sayin my arguments are very much different than thre GOP’s.

    • mancityRed6

      so you’re saying there’s a chance of immigration?

      • Robbertjan Brandenburg

        Chance for would be the right way of putting it. ;)

      • Jeffery Campbell

        We’ll there’s still a good argument for emigrating.

        • mancityRed6

          I’ve done it before, but it was on a marriage visa. I dunno if I can pull that off again.

    • Lance Thrustwell

      That’s happening – or has happened – a bit here in the US as well; Welders, electricians, plumbers, carpenters. Good trades to go into.

      • Robbertjan Brandenburg

        Yup, A good friend of mine is plumber and he can;t handle the business because there are too many requests. I would jump inot that business if it wasn’t for the fact I have troubles changing a light bulb with my two left hands

        • Lance Thrustwell

          I would encourage any young person who has a practical, hands-on sort of personality to go for a mechanical or electrical engineering degree – and then if they bail out or can’t find a full-on engineering job, they’ve got a natural trade to fall into.

          • marxalot

            One of my cousins was mechanically inclined from a very young age- disassembled and fixed a locking doorknob at 5- and he skipped the uni part entirely. Makes good money as a handiman, bc he’s got plumbing and electrical certs. I seriously considered carpentry after I quit school the first time.

          • Robbertjan Brandenburg

            Exactly my son is only 4 but very handy and curious when it comes to how electrical equipment works and if we get to send him to one of the TU’s (Technical Universities) here in NL instead of the standard uni’s here (ex Psychology, me Historian) we would definitely cheer that on.

    • marxalot

      The push to credentials (ie, every job requiring a four-year degree) has been driven a lot in the US by the student loan industry, but of course having so many degreed people in the workforce has knock on effects elsewhere. And while it’s true that education does help alleviate poverty, that message has been watered down to “college is how you get a good job,” which leads to a flood of people needing to get into college, and pay for college, and then all needing jobs which will help pay off that degree. This reduces education to a job qualification while simultaneously ignoring: 1) education is not synonymous with university 2) not everyone needs to go to college. The trades are important! Lifelong learning isn’t just for university students! Education is an end in and of itself, not an economic investment!

      • Robbertjan Brandenburg

        This. An education is not just knowing political science or psychology. Education also means knowing a trade. I mean how many psychologists does a country need? (yes a lot in post Trump America but you get my point)

    • P’jama Pahnts

      What could be more awesome than meeting a plumber with a masters degree in philosophy?

      • Robbertjan Brandenburg

        Funny you should say that. In the town I grew up in there was a fast food restaurant owner who had a Phd. in Dutch linquistics. He always inspired me to play with words. I wish I could show that in English but I guess the fact that he was a major part of me being able to converse in 5 different languages is a big enough hommage to that guy. :)

        • Three Finger Salute

          Another plus that Europeans have over Americans: they’re not afraid of learning new languages. Multilingualism is considered cultural treason in the USA. So much so that schools are actually cutting foreign-language education or pushing it to the category of optional electives because Spanish is only for illegals (who ought to be learning English anyway) and nobody speaks French outside of France and the damn Canucks. Breitbart’s rubes were having a fit that Trudeau dared speak French at his meeting with Trump in February. They even had the damn nerve to call Merkel stupid because she “didn’t even speak English.” It won’t be long now before the Rosetta Stone software program ends up being prohibited for sale as “terrorist propaganda.” Especially the Arabic one.

          • Robbertjan Brandenburg

            Yeah Americans are always surprised that I am pretty much fluent in English (with of course the standard hiccups for not being my native language) good command of German and French (and French I once spoke fluently but since I have not used it much over the years it got a little shady) and a basic command of Spanish. “why and how do you do it? wel because there are 7 billions persons out there and only 20 millions speak dutch.” See their amazement I am working on my chinese.

    • Ms.Moon

      There needs to be balance I think between people who know theory and people who can put stuff together. My dad can build things (mix concrete, build a house) it’s like magic to me, I can explain things but the application with me is hit or miss.

  • bookish

    Trump-Russia summary and ‘splainer by Rolling Stone.

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/smoke-gives-way-to-fire-in-the-trump-russia-saga-w491539

    Keep in mind that these latest revelations in The Times are only one data point in a vast universe of investigative leads. In Washington, there are at least four sets of bloodhounds on the trail: the special counsel’s growing team of prosecutors, led by former FBI Director Robert Mueller; the FBI’s own, original inquiry; and parallel investigations by the (politicized) Senate Select Committee on Intelligence and House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. All four are traveling down three separate paths: Did the GRU and FSB hack into Democratic servers and leak anti-Clinton stuff to WikiLeaks, DCLeaks and other outlets? Did officials of the Trump campaign – including Manafort, whose ties to Russia and pro-Russian officials in Ukraine are, well, manifold – wittingly or unwittingly aid the Russians? And are the White House and the Justice Department engaged in an illegal cover-up and an effort to quash the investigations – the possibility of which arose when Trump fired FBI Director James Comey because of “this Russia thing with Trump and Russia,” in Trump’s own words?

    The Russian intermediary who met with Trump Jr., Kushner and Manafort last June is a top-flight lawyer, Natalia Veselnitskaya. According to The Times, she represents Russian state-owned businesses and members of the Moscow elite, whose questionable activities had attracted the FBI’s dogged attention long before the encounter with Trump’s team. (Indeed, one of the strangest – hilarious, even – aspects of all this is that operatives in Trump’s sphere kept meeting Russians whose every move, meeting and communication were already being tracked and transcribed by the U.S. intelligence community.) Typically, given Trump’s pre-politics career, Veselnitskaya was referred to Trump Jr. by a wheeler-dealer connected to Trump’s Miss Universe 2013 contest in Moscow, a man named Rob Goldstone from an outfit called Oui 2 Entertainment.

  • PixieThis

    So those that have higher degrees don’t trust themselves?

  • UnsaltedSinner

    Jebus. A Norwegian newspaper has a big story today about the people of Tangier Island, Virginia, who worry that the sea will soon swamp their homes.

    Do they believe in global warming? Nah! If the ocean levels were rising, surely the former peninsula that is now an islet would already be under water?
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e6c209aad3eb608084f5067c15f290b93d3899e3b4dbae1667b4652ba0d1c3ca.jpg

    Did they vote for Trump? You betcha!
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c706567a30f9746a974f27b281f6381dc22ab50b1510d666b897ed325c38b626.gif

    • suziq

      I believe that it was not so much that the do not believe in global warming, but that they thought DJT was just the man to “fix” their little problem (of shortly being underwater). And trump heard about it and called up the mayor or whoever and told him not to worry because he is going to build a wall around the island? Or something? So to keep the water out. Yup. That will totally happen.

      • Interestingly, the Romans actually came up with a type of concrete that gets sturdier when exposed to sea water and we are trying to figure out how they did it. I would prefer we didn’t need to build sea walls, but this is the type of research that can help people even if we do find a way to blunt or reduce global warming, yet the Trump people don’t want to spend any money on it.

    • efoveks

      CBS had a story about this last night on the news. Their big bitch isn’t about the island being swallowed up in the future, it’s about the eroding beach line they want to protect, to the tune of $20-30 mil. For 500 people, most of whom, as you point out, voted for Trump and now want him to build a protective wall for them.

      Being mean and small and doing the math, they want the American taxpayers to shell out $40-60K per resident of Tangier island, so they live where they want but cannot afford.

      Unreasonable? Unconscionable? Appalling? I cannot come up with a word that describes my outrage for this one.

      Maybe they should pray harder…

  • bookish

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-vote-idUSKBN19V29W?feedType=RSS&feedName=newsOne&google_editors_picks=true

    The American Civil Liberties Union on Monday said it had filed a lawsuit against U.S. President Donald Trump’s election commission, saying it had failed to follow federal law governing public access and transparency for such advisory groups.

    The ACLU said in a statement that the Presidential Advisory Commission on Election Integrity had already held its first meeting without giving any notice or opening it to the public, and that its upcoming meeting would only be available via webcast.

    The commission last week said it would meet on July 19 in Washington near the White House.

    • Komsumverweigerer Ron

      ‘Near the White House’ = behind the same bushes Spicey was hiding in.

      • Three Finger Salute

        The guy who writes Where’s Waldo should do a spinoff book called Where’s Spicey.

  • UncleTravelingMatt

    Sort of OT: Last week, I mentioned a criminal defendant who wanted to fire his defense attorney two weeks before trial because he wanted a “conservative” lawyer. Well, he got it. The prosecutor in the case told me a few minutes ago that “Idaho’s 2nd Amendment Lawyer” filed a Notice of Substitution of Counsel and (for some reason) an affidavit by the defendant-affiant stating, with particularity, the reasons for said substitution. Among them was a statement that his original lawyer refused to call a particular witness because he believed he would be suborning perjury. (A quick note for non-lawyers — the affidavit was completely unnecessary, but even if the Defendant wished to explain to the judge why he wanted to get rid of his lawyer, he could have done it outside the presence of the prosecutor; by filing an affidavit with the court, he is handing the prosecutor evidence that his former lawyer believed the witness in question was lying and the defendant demanded the witness be called anyway.)

    This is what happens when education, training, experience, and professionalism are secondary considerations.

    • Spotts1701, Resistance Pilot

      So this guy was mad because his previous counsel didn’t want to risk censure, suspension, or disbarment to call a witness who he believed would commit a fraud upon the court?
      Maybe he should try an insanity defense.

      • UncleTravelingMatt

        He also apparently thought the judge needed to know that, for some reason.

        • Spotts1701, Resistance Pilot

          It’s certainly an interesting approach – stupid, but interesting.

      • efoveks

        Almost too stupid to breathe. Almost.

    • therblig
    • efoveks

      Wow! Part of me is saying, “Whew! That first attorney dodged a bullet!” The other part of me is imagining in whose ass that bullet might ultimately land. (with votes? I’m not sure if this is a “with votes” situation.)

  • marxalot

    OT but Y’ALL. The stupid. It hurts. (responsible gun ownership/Darwin awards)

    • natoslug

      Almost a happy ending. But it says nothing about him no longer being able to breed.

      • Marion in Savannah

        We can but hope. He’s already paddling in the shallow end of the gene pool.

    • darnyoudarnyoutoheck

      Ooooh, a challenge for his plastic and micro-vascular surgeons. Poor guy.

    • bookish

      Moran wannabes watch too many movies.

    • WotsAllThisThen

      “The incident remains under investigation.”

      In other words, the file is still being passed around the department for amusement.

    • jesterpunk

      “See a good guy with a gun stopped a bad guy with a gun, checkmate liberals”

      NRA gun nuts.

    • therblig

      Penis, mightier than the sword, but not the gun.

  • laineypc

    When you can’t agree on a valid source of facts, you can’t agree or really discuss anything relating to facts. The deep distrust of the media by Republicans is deepening and hardening the division.

  • Buzz1313

    There’s something really scary at work here. My European friends paid next to nothing to attend college. In my family there aren’t many college graduates but some of us did attend. I can’t imagine why anybody would think college is a bad thing unless they’re being indoctrinated to do so. What benefit is a stupid populace? Who does it benefit? That 42% of Republicans is playing that 58% like a harp from hell. I’m waiting for an enterprising reporter to speak to a guy like Ted Cruz about this study. I want to hear these guys who graduated Ivy League, married Ivy League and will likely send their children to an Ivy League talk about how bad college is. Assholes.

    • They mean Education is bad for non-rich kids.

      Too much competition for their Rich kids…

      Since poor kids in Ivy League schools tend to be smarter than legacies.

      See : Obama vs Bush, George W.

      • OutOfOrbit

        Poor peeps need the education/knowledge to get ahead; rich kids only need the sheepskin and then they’re good to go.

    • Three Finger Salute

      Canadian Reject Cruz excelled at debate at U of Calgary. Probably because his method of master debating was to just ramble on and on in manic mode, bully the other person into silence until he can declare victory.

      Strange anecdote about “how small Canada is”: One night two college roommates went up to Calgary to watch their school compete against the UC team. Ted Cruz was part of this club, along with two other guys, one Muslim and one Jewish. It was after this contest that one of the visiting students in the cheering section told his roommate he might — might — like to go into politics someday.

      The two other guys on the UC debate team were Raheem Nenshi (mayor of Calgary) and the notorious InfoWars wannabe, Ezra Levant.

      But the two visiting students were there to root for McGill University — and their names were Gerald Butts and Justin Trudeau.

      I believe McGill won. Or at least, I want to believe. We know who won in the long run.

    • Cat Cafe for the Prosecution

      1. Stupid, lazy, uneducated people find it easier to attack smart, hardworking educated people than to actually bother to educate themselves or learn something about the world.
      2. The Republicans realize they can’t win elections if people can connect thoughts and make critical judgment, so they suppress it and use the natural laziness of the rube to propagandize it. Who doesn’t like to be called smart, especially if you’re seething with resentment at the people who are smart? MAGA!!!!111!
      3.The Republicans also handily use the rubes’ racism: “why should YOU pay for THEIR schools?”
      4. The idea that you cannot have any sort of successful country with an uneducated, sickly population, is irrelevant to the Republicans (“Hey, I got mine”), and stupid people are too stupid to recognize that simple fact, which the conniving Republicans are banking on.

    • Ms.Moon

      In the developing world as well my god sister is a doctor she is from Trinidad right now she’s doing her residency in Brooklyn, she paid almost nothing to go to school, her sisters are in Europe studying, the government is paying for their education. They have to go home for a few years to work for the government but after they can go into business for themselves. They all want to live in Trinidad but they can work for private companies or go into business for themselves. My mom has a friend whose daughter got her degrees courtesy of the government of T&T and she’s got a great job now setting up labs for companies throughout the West Indies. The United States will have a problem where blue states will keep investing in the education of their people. New York has free education for people in city and state institutions and red states will suffer and the disparity will just keep growing.

  • bookish

    https://www.technologyreview.com/s/608252/first-object-teleported-from-earth-to-orbit/?google_editors_picks=true

    Today, the Micius team announced the results of its first experiments. The team created the first satellite-to-ground quantum network, in the process smashing the record for the longest distance over which entanglement has been measured. And they’ve used this quantum network to teleport the first object from the ground to orbit.

    • OutOfOrbit

      The hell they did!(?)

      • bookish

        One photon. Pretty amazing.

        • Jeffery Campbell

          Next up – all the Trumps.

          • Jeffocaster in the East

            Naw, take too long, Donnie’s mass is too big.

          • Jeffery Campbell

            Damn you and your “science!”

          • Pax Americana Per Ars Smith

            Donnie is more like a strange quark!

      • Lance Thrustwell

        The hell you say!

        • OutOfOrbit

          The hell I do!

    • Skwerl the Taco Hunter

      but her emails.

    • Jeffocaster in the East

      This sounds like what most of Quantum Physics sounds like. TOTAL BULLSHIT.

      • If Quantum Physics is bullshit, then your phone wouldn’t work because every transistor on every chip inside that phone uses Quantum Physics to calculate the waveform known as “electrons”

        • Jeffocaster in the East

          Yeah yeah…………..I didn’t say it’s bullshit, I said it SOUNDS like bullshit.

          Beam me up Scotty, they elected the fuckhead Trump as Prez…..no intelligent life here.

      • Three Finger Salute

        Merkel is a quantum physicist. And then there’s her protege.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eak_ogYMprk

        • Msgr_MΩment

          Ahem. Physical chemist.

          /physicist shoves glasses back up his nose.

  • Jeffocaster in the East

    Just one more fucking way Rethuglicans are hypocrites. It is they distrust Universities? Their leaders are all well educated mostly lawyers, WTF? Just because education leads MOST people to independent thought. Churches certainly don’t – that is why they are popular.

    • Panika MCD

      I see you’ve been spying on ALEC again.

    • Cat Cafe for the Prosecution

      Uneducated rubes without critical thinking skills are crucial to their winning elections.

  • marxalot

    Anyway, it’s Real Weird that, despite having gone to, ah, several liberal-arts and state run universities (hey, I got my BA in eight semesters, okay, don’t ask how many schools or over how many years), I hardly encountered any Marxism or radicalism from the faculty, much less the student orgs. I mean, I basically had to self-radicalize! If it weren’t for Comrade Mom and Running Dad making sure I had access to anarcho-syndicalist material in the home, my political education would have been much further behind!

    • Lance Thrustwell

      You done got radicalized!

    • Jennaratrix

      I am teaching for one of those elitist liberal arts colleges, and if my recent students are any indication, most of them are somewhat right-leaning. Those that mouth off about their politics, anyway. (I don’t. My students have no idea I’m a screeching liberal harpy, as my father once put it.)

      • marxalot

        Dumb kids haven’t yet shaken off the indoctrination they’ve eaten at their parents’ table every night. They think they know everything, when all they have are Recieved Ideas. Hopefully some of that will wear away.

      • BigCSouthside

        I’ve found the right leaning tend to mouth off more in general

        • Jennaratrix

          Unfortunately, yes. And once they do, the likelihood of people more left-leaning to speak up is less, because usually it’s not relevant, and no one wants to start a fight.

      • Marion in Savannah

        Give the youngs time. They’ll outgrow that right-leaning nonsense.

        • Jennaratrix

          Yep. And you know, I’m not necessarily opposed to right-leaning; I’m opposed to not listening to anyone else. And I have yet to run into too much of that.

    • Spotts1701, Resistance Pilot

      Even as a political science major, most of my professors were middle-of-the-road in their lectures. The only whackadoodle I had was an econ professor who made Bernie Sanders look like Alan Greenspan.

    • JustDon’tSaySortMyBalls

      Right? I had a Chem Lab instructor who went on a rant about the Trilateral Commission the day Reagan was shot.

    • cmd resistor

      I got moderately radicalized at a liberal arts school with some ties to Baptists but not all, just by being exposed to people who were not fundamentalist Lutherans. Even the required religion course was more of a history class and my prof not bible . of course it was all downhill from .

  • Master Contrail Program

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a45d4f69d4538fe60aa29611873a01eebc5615408a3cc77b4fa8e7122916eb21.jpg Here ya go GOOPS, this book should be right up your alley. Look! It even features the party symbol, uhhh, waving at you!

    • OutOfOrbit

      Oh for Dog’s sake.

    • The Wanderer

      (spits iced tea on the floor) Is that SFW?

      • Master Contrail Program

        Sexually Frustrated Writer? It would be irresponsible not to speculate!

        • The Wanderer

          Hmm, possibly.

    • Jeffery Campbell

      Hmmmm, right up my alley? ISWYDT

    • Vincent Ricola

      That elephant must have a beautiful healthcare plan that covers tremendous prescriptions.

    • PigsDoFly

      Mmmmmmm.

    • Msgr_MΩment

      No rulers for….um…..context?

      • Master Contrail Program

        Well that’s either a small hand or a big…..story in that photo.

    • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

      i’m not wearing my glasses and i SWORE that was the real thing for a split second.

  • PigsDoFly
    • Lance Thrustwell

      Quit yer braggin’. :)

      • PigsDoFly

        Can’t help it. She’s a wonker.

        One of us one of us one of us

    • suziq

      How does she sit sideways like that??
      (great pic!)

      • Panika MCD

        must be the witchcraft in those canned clams they had earlier.

        • suziq

          Obligatory: You Monster!!

          • Panika MCD

            I didn’t purchase nor indulge in the canned clams!

          • suziq

            I think it is reflex, when canned clams are mentioned it is followed by “You Monster!!!!!”
            At least as far as I have seen hereabouts.

          • JustDon’tSaySortMyBalls

            I did not put peas in that guacamole!

          • Panika MCD

            you also too did not serve enchilada sauce as salsa and remembered to put pico in the queso, right?

          • JustDon’tSaySortMyBalls

            All I’ll say is I am NOT a MONSTER!

          • Panika MCD

            serving enchilada sauce as salsa and melted velveeta w/o pico as queso is pretty monstrous!

        • Shanzgood

          That was an awful picture! I look totally deranged!

          • Panika MCD

            you look adorable!

    • TJ Barke

      I figured out what’s wrong with Kansas, it’s all sideways.

      • jesterpunk

        If Kansas moved to Australia would they be upside down and sideways facing the other way?

        • BearDeLaOursistance

          They’d just circle the drain in the other direction…

    • Msgr_MΩment

      Howdy, Ma’am. She cleans up nice.

      • PigsDoFly

        She dirties up better

        *nudge nudge*

    • Msgr_MΩment

      C’mon, baconz. You should let her get vertical from time to time.

      You know, makin’ sammiches an nat.

      • Shanzgood

        Don’t get him started!

      • PigsDoFly

        I didn’t je’et yet cause these jag-offs ain’t got chipped ham or jumbo. Not even a Giant Eagle here

    • Pax Americana Per Ars Smith

      Shan looks great, as always! But Kansas has trees? Who knew?

      • PigsDoFly

        I think it’s just big corn.

  • ken_kukec

    The right wing has been bitchin’ about higher education in the US since God and Man at Yale forced William F. Buckley, Jr., to study secular ideology and Keynesian economics in the middle of the last century.

    At least WFB bore the hallmarks of an education’s benefits, unlike the anti-intellectual leading lights of today’s GOP.

  • Relativicus

    “Everybody poops… ON BOOKS!!!

  • Panika MCD

    best stories of a person trying to “save you” from reading a book or other written material in public and…GO!

    • jesterpunk

      I have had people try and hand me those click track thing in book stores because they said I was looking at satanic books. I was looking at science books in a bookstore that was closing at the time.

      • TJ Barke

        Chick tract.

        • jesterpunk

          Yeah those things.

        • Zippy W Pinhead

          thank you, I was wondering what a click track was (other than a metronome track to keep the drummer in time)

          • jesterpunk

            I couldnt remember the name of them and didnt want to google it.

          • suziq

            Chick lit you mean? As in (not really) “literature” for females.

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            Chick-Lit-A

            where they teach females how to make a sammich

          • Panika MCD

            I wish I still had my gloriously stupid vintage etiquette book.

          • Three Finger Salute

            Not to be confused with “Chick Lit, Eh?” which is the colloquial term for the genre of Trudeau fan fiction.

          • BearDeLaOursistance

            Chick Lit, Eh? Don’t Forget Gheys!

          • jesterpunk

            Charcoal BBQ fire starter is more accurate.

          • TJ Barke

            I just noticed, but Chick tract sounds like a euphemism for vagina…

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            they have antibiotics to clear up a CTI

      • Master Contrail Program

        Yeah, some weirdo handed me one of these at some festival, https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8e3253a533f30f44528435ced614cb601c70878290a320bef287474b43dc9ae5.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7ab5113f66a88d779f087c9e815d70c6d3b553a89f04340402dcedf2895dfeec.jpg then he said, “https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/55bf441c42c18ca56496fbda082baf20933a84616f1872dead622f10310db04c.gif

        I’m still trying to figure out what it all meant, years later. Excelsior!

      • Vagenda of Rebel Scum

        Those are hipster ironic now. They’re considered primitivism.

      • Three Finger Salute

        I bought Homo Deus by Yuval Noah Harari and someone in the checkout line thought I bought a book called God is Gay.

        • BearDeLaOursistance

          Sounds like that guy was a false friend…

    • UncleTravelingMatt

      Nobody stopped me from reading Life in Fragments, by Zygmunt Bauman. Does that count?

      • Panika MCD

        it might be something more women are subject to. if I try to read anything in public that’s not on a computer screen, I invariably get:

        dude person: whatcha readin’?

        me: a book.

        dude person: wassit about?

        me: *shows back of book cover*

        dude person: issit gud?

        me: the bus stop/coffee shop/Senate gallery is not book club!

        • Three Finger Salute

          First rule of book club is: don’t talk about book club.

          • Panika MCD

            Rules of Book Club:

            1. the presence of a book does not mean that it is book club–especially if you have not purchased the book or checked it out at the library.

            2. unless there is an imminent catastrophic event–it is only appropriate to interrupt a stranger reading if the person reading is reading outloud from your book on tape/CD. (no. what is happening in your BVDs is not considered a “catastrophic event”.

            3. keep off topic conversations to after the dessert is served.

            4. you can hook up with fellow book clubbers, but not in the bathroom at the host’s house/apartmemnt unless it is your or your partner’s house/apartment.

            5. if you didn’t read the book, nod and smile like you did. we’re not here to recap for you.

          • Khavrinen

            no. what is happening in your BVDs is not considered a “catastrophic event”

            Although it could be, if you don’t leave me alone…

        • Oh, the interrupters. I have had those encounters. If I’m feeling feisty, I go into the most complicated, long-winded explanation of the plot and themes of the book that I can come up with, and refuse to stop talking about it. Bores them away. Usually, I just try to ignore, though.

          • Panika MCD

            that seems like a lot of effort to go to…and gives them attention.

    • Notreelyhelping

      I once asked a clerk in a used bookstore if he had any Bukowski, and he tipped down his head, witheringly looked over his glasses, and asked: “Aren’t you a little old for that?” (I was 29 at the time.)

      • Panika MCD

        you were a little old for that. he’s kinda a starter poet. *pushes up not-existent poetry nerd glasses*

        • Notreelyhelping

          I always thought his poetry was a bit naff, but his short stories were diverting, and it was a stressful stretch in my life. I was sort of hurt at the time, but it now strikes me as funny.

          • Panika MCD

            that’s fair enough. everyone has a sentimental attachment to the people they started with.

          • Notreelyhelping

            The really funny part was the dumb interior monologue going: Hey! Hey, buddy! I’ve read John Crowe Ransom! Honest I have!

            And realizing I sounded like Fredo.

          • Panika MCD

            just tell them it was your starter and you’ve still got a sentimental attachment. they’ll understand.

          • Jukesgrrl

            If he asks for that in a used bookstore now, the clerk will say, “How do you spell that … and he’d have to spell it five times.

          • Panika MCD

            you are going to the wrong used bookstore.

      • Vagenda of Rebel Scum

        My brother, who never went to college, thinks Atlas Shrugged is a work of genius. Of course he’s a Trump fan. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

    • Martini Ambassador 🍸
      • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

        i did that on a chicago subway once with Bertrand Russell’s, “Why I am an Atheist.”

        It to provoke a family vacationing from chicago – i can’t remember why i felt provoked, but I was!

    • MynameisBlarney

      Wasn’t in public, but I was reading on the couch and my evil sisters annoying friend kept asking me stupid fucking questions every couple of minutes.
      I finally had enough and left.

    • When I was a kid, a school librarian refused to let me get a book at a book fair because it was “too advanced”. My mom read her the riot act, told her that if I said I could read it, I could, and that if I had questions, I knew how to ask, and got me the book.

      I don’t know if anyone has tried to save me from reading material since. If they did, I probably had my nose too deep in a book to notice.

  • Msgr_MΩment

    Show me the page where the novel touched you.

  • Zippy W Pinhead

    They eagerly embrace their stupidity…

  • Vagenda of Rebel Scum

    Offspring learned liberalism at Moms knee and from listening to Stephanie Miller on the way to being dropped off to school. Learned serious drinking in prestigious Eastern colleges. Fortunately they kept the liberalism and mostly left the partying. The binge drinking is a societal problem as much as a college problem.

  • Good_Gawd_Yall

    I’m a fairly simple gal. My wants and needs are few. For instance, all I really want right now is for Dolt 45 and every member of his family and administration to go to prison and come out bankrupt. That seems reasonable to me, and I don’t know why I can’t have it.

    • aktlib101

      The answer is God (the Republican version). Pray hard(er)

    • Marion in Savannah

      I’m not sure, but I guess the Current Resident at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. would blame it on Obama. Isn’t he the go-to reason for why we can’t have nice things?

  • Everrett Fanuelli
  • DainBramage

    In my stupid opinion, the most important thing to learn, in college or elsewhere, is how to balance skepticism with being open to new ideas. Critical thinking. It doesn’t work when you want to believe in absolutes and conspiracy theories like the crazy right.

    • Eileen Besse

      I luv “in my stupid opinion.” I shall remember it.

  • Marion in Savannah

    Quelle surprise! Apparently nobody in the White House understands much of anything about China. (Color me stunned…) There’s currently an article up in the NYT with the following headline: “Beijing Says U.S. Apologized for Confusing China with Taiwan.” I guess there the rallying cry is still “Unleash Chiang Kai-Shek!”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/10/world/asia/us-china-taiwan-xi-jinping.html?_r=0

    • Zippy W Pinhead

      Beijing Says U.S. Apologized for Confusing China with Taiwan

      Translation: Tillerson had to get out the shop vac and a wet mop and clean up yet another mess made by the orange haired, tiny horned bull in a china shop…

    • WotsAllThisThen

      Ooops. We got the shipping address mixed up on our latest delivery of advanced military hardware. Sorry!

  • BrianW

    “When I hear the word culture, I reach for my gun” — Hanns Johst, a German Nazi-affiliated playwright. The actual quote is from a play of his, and the character says, “When I hear the word culture, I release the safety on my Browning.”

    No matter which quote you prefer, it seems pretty indicative of our modern Republicans.

    • Three Finger Salute

      TIL Nazis don’t like yogurt.

      • BearDeLaOursistance

        They saw what happened to Ernst Roehm for eating it…

  • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

    “A majority of Republicans and Republican-leaning independents (58%) now say that colleges and universities have a negative effect on the country’

    Pfft, come back to me when colleges and universities take away healthcare for 22 million people, suppress Amercians’ right to vote, deny us proper representation by gerrymandering districts, and send our fellow americans off to die in foreign countries.

    • Well, it is college educated, but college hating republicans who are trying to do all those things.

  • aktlib101

    Wait libruls, what are these “books” you seem so fond of?

    • jodyleek

      It’s like a comic book or a girly magazine but with more words and fewer pictures.

    • aktlib101

      I like pictures, pictures are yuuuuge

  • JustDon’tSaySortMyBalls

    I’m sure it’s been asked already, but WTF is a “liberal Republican”? A RWNJ who smokes pot?

    • ariel_gee_398

      That’s a libertarian.

    • Marion in Savannah

      They’re extinct now. They used to walk the earth when I was a child, but I’m older than dirt and they went the way of the dodo years ago.

      • The Wanderer

        (clears throat) Not quite.

      • Bmaccnm

        I grew up in New England, now live in Oregon. Liberal Republicans did exist, and their credo went something like, “Live how you want, don’t get in anybody’s face, don’t take from others when you don’t really need, give to others when they need. Oh, and keep up the roads and the sewers and the schools, be civilization.” Most of my parent’s generation were those Republicans. They started changing with Nixon and Reagan.

        • Bmaccnm

          *because*, although *be civilized* also works

        • Eileen Besse

          Grew up just outside Boston, I hear ya.

        • I recognize that, that was my grandparents’ style of Republicanism. I miss them.

    • Vagenda of Rebel Scum

      A third way Democrat.

    • Hemp Dogbane
  • yyyaz

    So the mother of all Wonket meetups will be at the Re-Education Camps. I look forward to growing vegetables with y’all.

    • Marion in Savannah

      I’m better at growing herbs than vegetables. Can you save a small plot for me?

    • Master Contrail Program
    • Vagenda of Rebel Scum

      How do we subvert the hymn singing and Bibble study?

      • yyyaz

        Serve the guards Datura tea.

        • VirginiaWackelpudding

          Wait till you try my radish cordial!

        • Kiri the Unicorn

          I like the way you think.

    • BearDeLaOursistance

      Mmmm, a Drinky Thing with pruno!!1!

  • BigCSouthside

    I’m more concerned about the delegitimization of fact, and the elevation of opinion to a status higher than fact.

    That and the assertion by many(including 45) that “no one can ever know” and therefore your conclusions are correct.

    That shit will destroy us

  • Bricks make more noise than books do.
    https://media3.giphy.com/media/7wiHbenhFYKcg/200_d.gif#3

    Bricks are better

  • Ian

    A professor once told me that, “as a professor, the right-wing media say I can turn students into Marxists, but my experience says that I can’t even make them do the reading.”

  • Moebym Reborn

    Because colleges and universities are where evil librul professors indoctrinate gullible youth against God and “traditional” values of racism and classism.

    • Three Finger Salute

      To play devil’s advocate, there is a tendency for extremism on the left too. The riots over Halloween costumes, sidewalk chalk, and Milo being an ass aren’t helping anyone. I went out trick-or-treating one year in a sombrero and serapi. Another year I was Pocahontas, and still another year I went as a geisha girl. Nobody died. There’s bigger battles to fight than LARPing a DMCA takedown over “cultural appropriation.” I like spaghetti. If it wasn’t for the Italians “culturally appropriating” the Chinese, spaghetti wouldn’t exist. I’m not Chinese or Italian. Am I not allowed to eat spaghetti with chopsticks? Who came up with this crap?

      This is the horseshoe-theory leftist equivalent of Trump’s “America First”. The ridiculous notion that the Japanese or Germans (having been our enemies in WW2) have no right to appropriate Motor City culture by “flooding the market” with “foreign” cars. And none of it is worth burning down a fucking college campus for, or shoving your professors at speaking engagements for not creating a “safe space” and a “home.”

  • SadDemInTex

    The 1% have never wanted universal education. As recently as the late 19th century (and into the 20th century) the English landowners (gentry and titled) were horrified by “the peasants” learning to read. And that was true in every part of the world where there was great income disparities. And even if allowed to go to school low income people were shut out of “high school” let alone a university education. The phenomenon of free high school is only in the 20th century and it only occurs after WWI. Forget university…only for the rich (and white).

    • Ms.Moon

      Except that in developing.third world countries the opposite is happening they are educating their people and the people are staying there. The United States is going to have a problem with a lack of education and lack of people to fill highly skilled jobs like doctors and engineers. Right now in New York in many hospitals the doctors are from India/Pakistan/China with 45’s issues with immigration many places, especially rural communities will suffer and will lack of access to doctors or bad doctors.

      • SadDemInTex

        Of course, I didn’t say the 1% were smart, just that they sure as hell don’t want the peasants (who, logically, are smarter than them just by virtue of statistics) to be educated. Education leads to revolt/revolution and worse…critical thinking.

    • Le Chapeau
  • Mehmeisterjr

    I’m surprised at the RWNJ hostility towards higher learning.

    Didn’t they give us Joe Paterno and Jerry Sandusky?

    Isn’t that a Trump kind of thing?

    • Three Finger Salute

      It appears that the only purpose of college in the United States of America is to study football.

      • Khavrinen

        Quite a few of the high schools, also, too.

    • The Wanderer

      Higher learning gave us Donald Trump (Wharton, etc.)

  • OutOfOrbit

    Once upon a time, if you disagreed with the church you were torchured until you changed your mind…or died.

    • Three Finger Salute

      Tortured*. Although, torchured is a good neologism for torturing someone by burning them alive.

  • NotALiar

    Can we come back from this?

  • whitroth

    I’m of mixed minds. I really *don’t* think that everyone is a fit for, or wants college. Consider how many folks reading this know who had trouble getting through school in the first place.

    And do you really think that your electrician, or plumber, etc, needs a batchelor’s degree?

    Hell, my second Real job was as a lab tech, and I had graduated high school. Same with my late wife – that was her career. Having a chemist with a 4-yr degree, and debt, doing lab tech work by someone without that debt is stupid.

    Master craftspeople, I can see with 2 yr degrees, or certs.

    On the other hand, the GOP attack is on *all* education beyond readin’, writin’, and ‘rithmatic (and I’m looking at *YOU* Betsey Devoss), and do what I tell you, no thinking for yourself, that’s HERESY!

    • efoveks

      Theirs is full blown anti-intellectualism.

    • Three Finger Salute

      I always thought I’d be happy with just a 9-5 clerical position answering phones and making appointments at the doctor’s office — that is, if it paid enough to afford to live on my own. But when I go to the doctor’s or dentist’s office myself (as a patient), I’m seeing fewer and fewer front-desk clerks, and just a computer kiosk instead, where you can pick your appointment time and it spits out a card and/or sends you an email or a message to your phone.

      The phone call that comes in as a reminder a day or to prior is obviously a Speakonia voice. As if that wasn’t bad enough, some offices aren’t even calling the house as a reminder anymore, but sending an automated text message or something called push notifications to the smartphone or Google Calendar/iCal.

      Now, I have neither an email account nor a smartphone and have no desire or need for either. But what am I supposed to do once these jobs get automated out of existence? Obviously I’ve thought of, as a last resort, just Soylent-donating myself to science as a study cadaver for med students or researchers. At least it could be said that I finally got into Harvard Medical…

    • shivaskeeper

      I am of a similar mind. 2+ year degrees are fine for those that want to pursue them, bit there is nothing wrong with a good apprenticeship or tech school cert.

      • ahughes798

        You are right. Trade schools. Vets need vet techs like crazy now, it’s a 2 year certificate course.
        I have a certificate in Natural Areas Management. I am waiting for the megalomaniac who took over the Horticulture Dept. to retire, then I will go back and take one class, and do my Natural Areas Management practicum, and I will have my totally useless(except to me) AAS degree!

  • La forza del resistino

    You would think the presence of William and Mary College would placate the homophobic among them.

    • KenHoughton

      Jon Stewart’s alma mater? Really???

  • Mavenmaven

    Things went downhill when the laity was allowed to read the Bible in the colloquial.

    • efoveks

      LOL!

    • Khavrinen

      That darned Martin Luther, ruining things for all the conservatives.

      And makin’ them blahs all uppity, too.

      ( What? That’s not the same guy? Are you sure? )

    • Suttree

      Gahhh! Terrible memories of Latin mass with my grandparents.

  • Lyly Sirivong

    I kind of understand being wary of the elites… but to be anti-education ? Wouldn’t they want for their children to get a higher education ? To have a better life than their own ?

    • Three Finger Salute

      Crab mentality. No, they don’t want the kids to have a “better life.” It means they might move away and leave the good ol’ folk in the dust — and have their souls polluted by sinful city livin’. Ironically, it’s a form of right-wing collectivism despite their constant raging against “collectivists.”

    • shivaskeeper

      It depends on the education sometimes. College or university degree vice a cert from a reputable tech school or a good apprenticeship.

      Not always, of course, but sometimes that’s the case.

    • ahughes798

      I don’t worry about the elite..they encompass athletes, musicians, ballet dancers…anyone who excels in their field. Elitists are the people who worry me. The Republican hoi-polloi don’t ever realise they’re being elitist by constantly talking down city dwellers, artists, the educated, and anyone who doesn’t quite fit in with their pre-conceived notions.

      • Lily

        They talk down to their own constituents, except their own constituents don’t even know it. I can’t believe people believe the BS from Trump, Ryan, Palin, etc. shovel out.

  • DAT

    Just more of the urban/rural divide. College-educated folks tend to move away from the rural states and, besides the brain drain impact that causes, there’s the demoralizing effect of feeling “left behind”. That semi-irrational feeling of “lesser” or “dismissed” causes other semi-irrational reactions (semi-irrational in the sense that it is really annoying to constantly hear from ignorant big city folks that there’s nothing in ND, SD, NE, etc.)

    • Three Finger Salute

      Where do suburbs fit in the “urban/rural” divide? I don’t live in farm country or in the big cities. I know my politics probably wouldn’t fit well in farm country, but I confess: the cities actually scare me. Had to go with my mother the other day to help find a doctor’s office in the big-city hospital, and I actually found myself getting a tightness in the chest because I’d never seen buildings that big in person — just on TV.

      It’s almost impossible to drive there, which I guess is why people take the bus or subway trains. A lot of graffiti, condemned buildings, addicts with visible trackmarks panhandling, people sleeping rough. It was both depressing and frightening all at once, like we’d taken a wrong turn and gone through a “Land of the Lost” time warp into the 1970s NYC of “Mean Streets” and “Taxi Driver” notoriety. (This was Boston, Mass-General).

      I think personality-wise, I’d probably have less anxiety living in the rural areas (seems you’re either born into city life and are used to it or you’ll always fail at hacking it), but if there’s no services around besides the church and the country folk healer because people living there don’t even believe in schools, libraries or hospitals (judging by their voting habits), then… how do you survive out there on the “frontier” either? Or is this why they’re all dying of painkillers?

      • Canned Covfefe

        Actually libraries are doing surprisingly well in small towns. Not every where but it’s actually inspiring. Rural hospitals, not so much. In part, because government doesn’t want to pay reasonable costs. Small hospitals are forced to close.

        • ahughes798

          My boring ass little town (around 10K)does have a nice library. And lots of corn and timothy and soy fields. We will always have a local hospital because it also serves Barrington and “Port” Barrington, which is horse country, which means it’s a very wealthy area. My heart goes out to all the rural people who’s hospitals will close, but they’re getting what they voted for. I hope they learn something from it.

    • Ms.Moon

      If the sidewalks roll up at midnight or so and I can’t get hangover pizza past 2 am it’s not worth my time to live there.

      • DAT

        Who the heck stays up past 10pm?

        I know you’re joking, but people do live in places where the sidewalk rolls up much earlier than midnight and the only pizza is homemade and, you know, they like it that way and there’s nothing wrong with that.

        • Ms.Moon

          I think that is fine for some people. I do not mind getting to bed early sometimes but I like going out and having a good time and dragging myself to bed at 5am as well.

        • Jukesgrrl

          No, there isn’t anything wrong with it. But if people choose NOT to live that way, no need to call the police.

      • Three Finger Salute

        You know, one of the things I always wanted to do was to go to one of the 24-hour McDonalds at like 2 or 3 a,m., and eat an ice cream at the outdoor picnic tables. This is actually considered daring in small towns like mine where everyone knows everyone, and nobody stays out past 10 except those few people who went into shift work like first responders or medicine.

        Those who everyone knows didn’t go into a profession such as that, if you’re out late, it creates a ruckus of concern among all the gossipy people who know everyone and their cousin/brother/step-parent-or-sibling/etc. (especially in the Facebook age), that so and so must be out late because they’re on drugs or there’s “trouble in the home”.

        When my brother was about 14, he and some friends who were on a sleepover, went to the Dunkin Donuts at 2a.m. to get iced coffees and Munchkins. The manager called the police, because there were “unaccompanied minors” in the place. No less than half a dozen squad cars showed up (then again, it was a donut shop) and everyone’s parents were called. It wasn’t like the mother who was hosting the sleepover didn’t know they were going. She did, and got a stern warning not to let it happen again until the kids were 18, lest she be arrested for “child endangerment.” They even brought the drug dogs, because the only people buying snacks in the wee hours must be (gasp) potheads.

        So, flash forward four years later: my brother and his friends are 18, it’s the summer after graduation, and they go to the same Dunkin Donuts reminiscing about the ridiculous night when the cops showed up to stop a “child endangerment” in process. Same manager actually carded them for trying to buy a fucking iced coffee at 2am. Mind you, there is no curfew law in this town. It’s an unspoken socially enforced mandate that casts suspicion on night owls as troublemakers.

        If ever I go on a date with somebody, this is what I want my first date to be. Fast food in the wee hours of the morning in a town just like mine, because it’s something you’re “not supposed to do.”

        I’m going to venture a guess and say a town like mine is not worth your time to live here. You might arouse scrutiny for getting pizza (or fries, or an iced coffee) past the “decent people’s” bedtime.

        • Ms.Moon

          The good pizza place closes at 4am on Friday and Saturday morning. I don’t stay out late as much anymore but if I want to I can and I live in the burbs it’s nice to be able to have a late ramble on any random weekend if I feel like it.

  • Kurt Weil

    They have a point. Consider the result of all this education: vegan butthole yodeling.

    • ResistanceFictionista blondeiq

      I hear UC Berkeley is offering that as an elective.

      • Three Finger Salute

        Judging by the news coverage, it seems Berkeley has a lot of pyrotechnics majors. That whole crew (not necessarily Berkeley per se but the wannabe revolutionaries rioting over “microaggression” bullshit like Halloween costumes and white-owned sushi bars) needs to be reined in and unequivocally condemned by our side too. It’s, er… fanning the flames of this already existing hatred for universities that permeates the right. I never saw any of that crap when I was at uni but apparently it does occur. As the fracas that was Milogate demonstrated, which in turn contributed to the reactionary rise of Trump.

        • Lily

          Many of those were not students at CAL. No student got arrested in the melee.

          Berkeley is a great public university doing what it can with the benefit of a private endowment.

          GO CAL!

      • Lily

        And where did you go to school?

  • William
    • Khavrinen

      If only it wasn’t so damn effective…

    • Three Finger Salute

      Fake news. He’s orange.

      • BreakingDeadMen

        And so it was, and later
        As the conman told his tale
        That his face, at first just peachy
        turned a whiter shade of Orange

  • Yr. Gma

    When all the universities close and there are no more doctors or lawyers or teachers or engineers or architects or MBAs (well, that might not be so bad) the United States will have to outsource those jobs to China. I guess that means there will be more American bodies available to go mine that coal, though.

    • Three Finger Salute

      You incorrectly assume that the USA will have or want doctors (vs. faith healing), lawyers (vs. clerics, like Iran’s fiqh scholars), teachers (vs. Sunday school preachers), engineers (ya mean like someone what to shove coal in the steam engine?), architects (how hard can it be to build a cow barn?) or MBAs (yeah, you’re right, that one might not be so bad).

      We won’t outsource those jobs. We’ll just declare that they were government surplus and do without them. After all, everything is possible with a little Yankee ingenuity, a lot of elbow grease, and putting all your faith in one basket case.

      In other words, this country is going to end up with a 100% cancer death rate.

  • The Wanderer

    It’s heartbreaking, really. American colleges and universities gave us scientists and engineers who pioneered in space, aeronautics, medicine, etc.

    • BadKitty904

      From world leader to third-world contender in one generation, thanks to the Banana-republicans. Still, this is good news for America’s global competitors!

  • Kiri the Unicorn

    A funny thing. Back when I was a colt, Republicans were keen to fund science and math education because NATIONAL SECURITY GLOBAL DOMINANCE OMG YOU GUYS THE RUSSIANS ARE MAKING US LOOK WEAK AND FLACCID WITH THEIR BIG THICK ROCKETS.

    Now they just roll over onto their backs and piddle themselves submissively. We still need educated people, maybe like never before, but since it’s difficult to cast fossil fuel independence as a great crusade against an enemy, it’s not considered to be politically useful.

    • Three Finger Salute

      Science was only a temporary venture to use in the dick-measuring contest with the evil commies. The objective was to say that if America could beat those damn Soviets at their “own game,” then communism was a fraud and capitalism would win the day. Now that there’s no more actual commies outside of the Norks (who’ve turned their “communism” into a deification of the Kims that Marx would undoubtedly be quite upset about), Cuba and the decrepit other Castro who wingnuts think is Trudeau’s uncle, and the corrupt hybrid of Western investment in slave labor to make Che Guevara shirts in Chinese, Cambodian and Vietnamese factories while the miserable workers parrot quotes from Mao’s Little Red App, science isn’t useful to America anymore and we can go back to circlejerking over the Bible and pretending like Galileo never existed.

      After all, now we really have to double down on the Jesus, because the Muslims are the new specter of evil — and also the gays and slutty women! And it’s the “intellectuals” who are making it all happen, trying to take your guns and Bibles away and replace it with the sinful temptations of socialist healthcare. Russians are the good guys now because Reagan destroyed communism and Putin accepted Orthodox Jesus as his savior! But Western Europe and Canada? Ohhhh… they’re the new Soviet Union! Merkel is an East German, Macron is, uh… French (those godless frogs!), and Trudeau is Castro Jr. who hugs pandas and belongs to the Red Party! And they believe in the pagan Gaia religion and welcome Obama as one of their own!

      A big part of this, as usual, is religion. Poisoning everything since 1 CE.

  • BadKitty904
    • A Bashful Nobody

      I haz a sad now cause I miss Doc Asimov.

      • BadKitty904

        He was a pithy codger…

      • NewLarry

        I know – he and Heinlein taught me more physics than any of my professors.

  • Le Chapeau

    I personally attended a very liberal liberal arts college, and, except for the upper level English course on Mark Twain and Henry James, not one of my courses engaged in Marxist-Lenninist indoctrination.

    • BreakingDeadMen

      We read the Communist Manifesto in various history and poli sci classes, but I wouldn’t describe any of it as indoctrination.

      • Le Chapeau

        I make joke. Marxist-Leninist indoctrination in an English course on Henry James and Mark Twain. Perhaps I should have used a class in the interpretation of modern dance.

        • BreakingDeadMen

          Konyeshna, but Twain did come out as kinda commie, being as Huck Finn had an ‘owning people is bad’ message

          • Le Chapeau

            That’s true, and Huck and Jim SHARED food.

          • BreakingDeadMen

            Of course, I’d be shot for finding a moral.

          • Le Chapeau

            Well played. Well played indeed!

    • FlownΩver

      “In addition, as he’s going to be teaching politics, I’ve told him he’s welcome to teach any of the great socialist thinkers, provided he makes it clear that they were wrong.”

  • A Bashful Nobody

    Loved the Fahrenheit 451 reference!

  • Scooby

    I think they feel the same about travel.

    • Jukesgrrl

      Yes!

  • BadKitty904

    IGNORANT VOTERS ARE EASILY CONTROLLED VOTERS.

    ~ The Republican Party

  • SadDemInTex
  • JParkerSD46

    If one were to have an imagination vast (and twisted) enough to consider Fox News as a “news media” organization, then I think I could agree with the wingnuts. Yes, the “media” is definitely hurting America. However, my imagination ain’t got time for that.

  • Alexander Stallwitz

    “We dont need no education” official Republican party motto

  • Alan

    Odd. Not one of my math courses contains liberal indoctrination. No wait, we teach logic.

    • Rick Hill

      Usually, the logic needed in life is learned even earlier. You don’t point to what you did in the toilet and think it’s a great thing.

      • ahughes798

        And yet doctors always want you to look at it……

  • angryspittle

    There is a strong current of anti-intellectualism that runs through American history. The GOP is opposed to higher education because really smart, knowledgeable people know that the GOP is merely the tool for the rich and the dumber people are the better the GOP can fool them into supporting policies that are against their best interests. The New Deal was crafted by the smartest people in the country that were drawn from what were then the great think tanks of the nation, the Universities. Starting in the 50’s the right founded their own think tanks to counter the universities influence on public policy. If you look at the source information for the right wing today it comes from those “think tanks” on the right that were designed to besmirch most of the New Deal and end spending that did not benefit the top 5% and the MIC. No profit in helping the poor and the least among us is there?

    • looksquirrels

      Richard Hofstadter is still timely on this subject….

      • angryspittle

        Yeah, I almost mentioned him in my post but scratched it out before I hit send……

    • garthpool

      “There are two types of Republican, the rich and the stupid. The rich ones strive to keep the stupid ones stupid, and the stupid ones strive to keep the rich ones rich.”

  • Cliff Hendroval

    Psst, Dok – It’s Allan Bloom, not Alan

    • BreakingDeadMen

      You say Allan, I say Douchebag. Allan Bloom, Douchebag Bloom, let’s call the whole mind closed.

  • CATMAN

    The Republican attitude towards primary, secondary, and higher education gives new meaning to the aphorism “Ignorance is bliss”

  • Rick Hill

    I’m willing to become a lesbian though I may have to fake being vegan

    • clubseal

      Don’t say vegan three times in a mirror or we’ll start another non-comment section shitstorm.

  • Joey Brill

    The question is vague enough to include prospective income vs. heavy student debt load in a post-depression America.

    • HazooToo

      It could be about student debt, but then you might expect to see equal levels of negativity between the two parties, since Democrats and Republicans can both be low income. They both struggle with student debt. Still, Dems favor the effect of college on society while Reps think it’s bad. Dems do not like being in debt any more than Reps do. So it must not be the debt.

  • unionthuggery

    Republican Voters 2: the Derpening.

    • Meatus

      RV3: Derpenest!

      • FlownΩver

        RV4: Derpnado!!

        • GHERKINS OF RESTIVENESS!

          Republican Voters Biglier: This Time It’s Derpsonal

    • Iam Reading

      RV-V: Derp in Ivanka

  • ANNG14

    “There was no point in seeking to convert the intellectuals. For intellectuals would never be converted and would anyway always yield to the **er, and this will always be “the man in the street.” Arguments must therefore be crude, clear and forcible, and appeal to emotions and instincts, not the intellect. Truth was unimportant and entirely subordinate to tactics and psychology.”
    Joseph Goebbels

    • tex7

      Read George Lakoff. He explains it all.

      • ANNG14

        I will look him up.

  • ANNG14

    Ignorance doesn’t pay well.

  • FelineMama

    Well, if I didn’t know better (Ahem, Ahem) I’d swear the gop hates educated peoples & the poor. Taking away Medicaid in gop states, healthcare in general &, now, attacks on colleges. You’d think the gop wants the poors/uneducated to die or become slaves to THEM. Just an opinion.

  • Richard Barton

    all Hail Doktor Zoom!

  • pgjack

    I hope Republicans will keep their kids out of college and free up higher earning jobs for good Democratic kids. This disrespect for education goes right along with right wing belief that science is a conspiracy to get overweight middle-aged white guys with adolescent fantasies to give up their Harleys.

  • Jeff Mc Donald

    I believe this ties into the whole notion that anyone can really do any job. When red state America decided to experiment with the idea, they cast about for someone suitably stupid, found Trump, and are in the process of confirming (or perhaps failing to confirm) their hypothesis. The rest of us will just have to wait for the results of this bold social experiment to see if everyone has been wrong since at least the time of Plato. After all it is just too darn hard to go to Youtube and look up J.F.K.’s news conferences and compare and contrast with our current office holder. I’m sure everything will be OK…as long as no one explains that whole “wag the dog” thing to Teh Donny.

    • garthpool

      “As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
      ― H.L. Mencken, On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe

    • Rickyphoo

      You would think that they would realize the experiment was a bust after eight year of Shrub W in the WH. Some people just don’t learn.

  • Villago Delenda Est

    The problem with Rethugs hating the media more than Dems is that this will just encourage more Broderistic bullshit.

    • BeatnikBob

      There will be Broders with us, always.

  • Iam Reading

    That’s not a sound strategy for long term economic success, Republicans. Carry on.

  • matthewthawkins

    I hope Republicans just stop sending their children to college.

    • Niblet58

      More room for the rest of us!

  • II Gosala

    If this has already been posted, my apologies

    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”

    — Isaac Asimov, Column in Newsweek (21 January 1980)

  • I can’t process the idea of a majority of any group thinking college is a negative. That doesn’t compute. When I grew up, “you MUST go to college” was a refrain that pretty much started from birth. And it wasn’t like it was just me, we pretty much all got told that our options were basically college or eternal burger flipping (that’s not really right or totally helpful either, as I discovered, but that’s another discussion.) Are there really parents and teachers and family and community members telling their own kids “stay away from college”? I mean, I know some do — like I know the Duggar girls are only allowed to do bullshit homeschool bible college or whatever — but I assumed that was only really fringey types.

  • CATMAN
    • akita96th

      This picture meets with my approval…This actually sums up the republican voter base..How do I know.? Because I argue with these dumb di dumb dos all the time..and these are their talking points..This is why we have a Trump regime.

      • Lily412

        And people wonder why the less educated are resentful toward the “college elite.” Probably because we/they make fun of them and call them dumb hicks.
        The under-educated are not our enemies…the ones spreading the propaganda against education are.

        • akita96th

          Well it seems the uneducated dont take to the truth…They have to have a leader who is their voice of stupid and thats who they follow hell or high water. The uneducated may not like those who are smart (educated)… but the fact them stupid hicks dont get facts makes them stupid fuking hicks…And yes we make fun of them because their stupidity effects all of us. So dont give me that poor old stupid hick bullshit…I was raised in Hickville…I know a stupid asshole when he opens his mouth and spews rhetorical sound bites over and over.. Trump makes fun of disabled people so my sin is to make fun of stupid hick Trump supporters even if they have flunked out of home school. I show no mercy…Bring on the Hick Trolls..

          • Lily412

            Not everybody has the means or encouragement to leave their rural, conservative town in pursuit of the kind of education that can help them learn critical thinking and skepticism. You got out of that environment, so it’s okay to make fun of them? Sounds kinda like a “bootstraps” argument to me…

  • Celtic_Gnome

    And Trumpanzees wonder where all the good jobs have gone.

    The only job you can get without an education is shoveling shit, and it doesn’t pay squat. Pay is commensurate with how far from shoveling said shit your job is.

    That concept is beyond a Republican’s ken.

    • From Russia with Love

      Republican dipshits are probably more likely to go to some for profit shithole run by religious extremists (or idiots like Trump), and end up with a lot of debt and a degree that most employers would laugh at. Can’t imagine a lot of Democrats anxiously awaiting their acceptance letter to Liberty or Trump U (I know it’s closed, much to the chagrin of taint lickers everywhere).

  • BFD

    Who’s going to teach these people to tie their shoes?

  • LOL! Mother’s 1985 monograph, “Did going to college make you an atheist? Did it?”

  • Zyxomma

    We’re doomed. RESIST!!

  • cats530

    What is the average age of a GOP voter? That might have a lot to do with these rigid attitudes.

    • tinker12

      What is the average IQ of a Greedy Old Pervert voter?

      • chicken thief

        I suspect the average age and average IQ are very similar – somewhere in the 80’s.

    • akita96th

      I dont think its so much age as it is IQ.

  • SKruetheratbassedarDs

    to hell with Newtie and Luntz and the other so-called righty brains-trusters with the cat-calls about Political Correctness – calling something controversial by another less offensive name to make it less sinister and more palatable. If their assertion is correct, then WTH is replacing “healthcare” available through the ACA with “Access to Healthchare” – the non-existent coverage offered by the GOP-er plans? Rank hypocrisy at its IOKIYAR finest . . .

  • E.A. Blair

    If gawd ment Republikans to bee smart n reed n stuf, heduv given em branes…

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6c5b6a907e207bfa16d3d44680e583e550241504d75fb4f3c219f569f846eddc.jpg

  • jbandsma

    Gee, didn’t distrust of education form the basis of laws preventing slaves from learning to read and write? The idea that if they got ANY education they would become dissatisfied with their situation and rebel against their owners.

  • Joe Hill

    There’s no dumbass vaccine.
    repub liecans are proof…

  • lurch394

    I’m willing to believe that rich conservatives still send their children to college. As for those other people trying to outdo their betters, well, that just won’t do.

  • Maybe

    Maybe the Repubs are thinking of Trump University.

    Though I doubt it.

  • Heyzeus Ahchay

    Republicans don’t want anyone to increase his or her level of intelligence because they need stupid people to do their bidding: fight wars for next to nothing and die, dig the coal for next to nothing and die, bag the groceries for next to nothing and die, arrange a nice trip for me for next to nothing and die, take care of my kid for next to nothing and die, build my railroad for next to nothing and die, raise a cow for me to eat for next to nothing and die, support programs that take huge sums of taxpayer money out of dumb people’s pockets for me before they die, etc., etc., etc. Oh yeah, and believe what I tell you and stay stupid long enough to believe what I tell you so I never run out of people to serve me for next to nothing and feel privileged to do it — for next to nothing — and then go die. Republicans need people to be stupid enough to feel lucky to be able to serve the GOP, because the dumb people think that by serving rich, manipulative assholes, they themselves become part of rich, manipulative asshole society. Republicans need people to be stupid enough to believe that as well. And it’s working. Look at how many stupid voters think they’re some kind of holier-than-thou patriots because they support the Republican party — which works day and night to keep them stupid enough to keep supporting Republicans. Higher education has a tendency to remove the intellectual blinders from too many people who are needed to stay on the narrow, tedious, going-nowhere GOP path.

  • Debmcd

    You can tell Republicans don’t like higher education. Look who they elect to Congress.

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