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He’ll be back

No two ways about it, Jon Ossoff’s loss last night in the Georgia special election for Congress hurts. Of the four Congressional seats opened up by appointments to Donald Trump’s cabinet, the Georgia 6th District seat previously held by Tom Price seemed the most likely chance for a Democratic pickup, because Donald Trump only won it by 1.5 percent last November. But when it came right down to it, this was a deep red district that’s gone Republican since 1979, and which reelected Tom Price last fall by 23 points. So a very Republican district elected a Republican. By a very slim margin.

Yes, yes, we know, a close loss is still a loss. And no amount of better-than-expected actually results in another D vote in Congress. An Ossoff win would have been great as a validation of resistance to Trump, and it would have been a lot better for momentum-building toward 2018. From a purely practical standpoint, though, it would have meant a 247 to 188 Republican majority in the House, instead of the 248-187 split we’ll now have with the election of Republicans last night in Georgia and South Carolina. Jon Ossoff is a good guy, but he couldn’t have stopped the Republicans from brewing up horrible legislation and ramming it through. So there’s that.

And let’s not discount the better-than-expected stuff, either: In a general election, a lot of close losses like last night’s would be disastrous. But Ossoff’s 20-point swing against a very well-funded, well-known candidate, in a very Republican district, is not exactly Just A Participation Trophy. It’s evidence that good Democratic candidates can be competitive in districts that seem like a Republican lock — consider what might have happened in a district where the R won by 10 points instead of 20 last time. And instead of one district, 2018 has at least 64 probable swing districts, as identified by Swingleft.org.

Also worth mentioning: Karen Handel did everything she could to avoid saying Donald Trump’s name during this election. When candidates in your own party treat you like Voldemort, that’s not exactly great news for 2018, particularly given how badly Trump handles his wand.

And then there’s South Carolina, and a race that was supposed to be such an easy win for the Republican that most outlets — Yr Wonkette included, us-a culpa — simply overlooked it. Surprise! In a special election for the seat that Mick Mulvaney won by 20 points in November, Democrat Archie Parnell — a first-time candidate like Jon Ossoff — managed to get incredibly close to beating Republican state Rep. Ralph Norman, losing by under 3,000 votes. Yes, a loss, but the point is, that one wasn’t even supposed to be close, but even with almost no funding, Parnell made it competitive. Hard to say whether more love from national Democrats could have done the job — it might have, but in these deep red states, “Hollywood money” can become a rightwing talking point, as it did against Ossoff.

Then there were the special elections for the other two vacancies created by Trump appointments: In Montana, violent manchild Greg Gianforte beat nice Democrat folk singer Rob Quist (another complete beginner) by 6 points. Ryan Zinke had won the seat in November by 16. Not as big a swing, but still a swing. And back in April, in Kansas, Republican Ron Estes won by just under 7 points, for the seat to replace Trump’s as-yet-unindicted CIA director Mike Pompeo. Pompeo won re-election in November by over 30 points. Thirty goddamned points.

What this means, kids, is that Republicans will be vulnerable in 2018, especially if they manage to actually push through the horrors they want to unleash on us, like their secret plan to take healthcare away from tens of millions of Americans. And the landscape for 2018 is a lot friendlier to Dems than these four seats were: lots of seats out there that R’s won last time by under 10 points, not the much larger Republican advantages the Dems faced in 2017’s special elections.

So cheer the fuck up, will you? In Georgia’s 6th, the Republicans had a huge registration advantage, millions and millions of dollars of super-PAC money, and they still had to fight to get enough turnout to take a seat that in most years, they could have won with a few bulk mailers and TV ads. As the founders of Indivisible pointed out in an email Tuesday night,

Tonight, a little-known 30-year-old political newbie came within a few points of winning Newt Gingrich’s old congressional district. A couple states away in South Carolina, another political neophyte shifted a district that leans Republican by 9 points away from Trump by 6 points. These are not losses. These are the first droplets of a wave. We’re not there yet, but we’re building toward something big. […]

Keep in mind what a 5- or 6-point swing against Trump means for the country. It’s HUGE. If we see a nationwide swing of 6 points next year in the 2018 elections, 52 House Republicans will lose. With a wave of that size, Democrats retake the House, stripping Paul Ryan of of his speakership (and maybe even his +5 Republican seat). A wave of that size means we’ll finally have a legislative branch that actually acts as a check on this Administration.

We’ve got the energy, the momentum, and the smarts (just don’t be all elitist about that, OK?). There are enough close seats out there that we can — hell, SHOULD — take the House back in 2018. It’s time to get to work.

Oh, and Karen Handel? She’s already proven herself a good target for comedy, what with her simple, down-home love of depriving parentless babies of gay families and not supporting a “liveable wage.” We’d rather have Ossoff in Congress, but Handel will provide us plenty of material.

Yr Wonkette is supported by reader donations. Please click the “Donate” clicky below to send us money!

[WaPo / SwingLeft / Politico / Special thanks to Evan Hurst for letting me cannibalize ideas from his FacePlace!]

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  • RobespierreHoo

    Paging Dr. Pangloss. Dr. Pangloss, please pick up the red courtesy phone in the lobby.

  • Robbertjan Brandenburg

    I wonder how Trump fits this with his positive attitude towards the LGTBQWERTY community endorsing one of the the witches of Eastwick.

    • OutOfOrbit

      WERTY is a nice touch.

      • Msgr_MΩment

        “Keyboard lesbians”

    • Resistance Fighter Astraea

      The important thing is that it will be christians hurting us and not the muslins

  • chascates
  • Ryan Denniston

    “Tonight, a little-known 30-year-old
    political newbie came within a few points of winning Newt Gingrich’s old
    congressional district. A couple states away in South Carolina, another
    political neophyte shifted a district that leans Republican by 9 points
    away from Trump by 6 points.”

    Not to nitpick, but South Carolina is precisely one state away from Georgia. Let’s not provide ammunition for the incorrect idea that we are all elitist snobs who wrote off the South a long time ago.

    • Villago Delenda Est

      Well, those of us who aren’t Berniebros.

  • Michael Smith

    “‘Hollywood money’ can become a rightwing talking point”

    It will always be a rightwing talking point, especially where it actually exists, but even if it doesn’t. They will always claim that the only reason a Democratic candidate is competitive is that they are receiving money from one of the liberal cesspools, like L.A., NYC, or Washington, because “those people” hate small town and rural Americans.

    This is their spin on the closeness of these elections. That, despite astronomical amounts of money being donated by distant, out of state liberal elites, the People’s Voice triumphed. This is a talking point that is damaging, and maybe it is one we need to figure out a way to combat rather than ignore.

    • WotsAllThisThen

      San Francisco also, too.

    • Shibusa

      Apparently, quite a lot of Handel’s advertising went into attacking Pelosi.

      • Michael Smith

        “We don’t want that California devil-worshiper makin policies that affect our children!!!”

  • Antonin Dvorak

    In a related note, Dems have had decent showings at the state lege level as well. We held a Dem seat in Delaware while increasing the margin of victory by 14 points, won a seat in PA via write-in, and took 2 of 3 seats in CT, with the third seat seeing the Dem close the gap by 11 points.

  • Proud Liberal

    Okay. When only 50% of the registered voters vote, Democrats will always lose. We need bigger turn outs!

    • Oblios_Cap

      the law states you need to have so many voting machines. You just put them out in the county away from any mass transit, and you’ve blocked the urban vote quite well.

  • Mr. Blobfish

    I just can’t trust Hillary.

    • WotsAllThisThen

      I just don’t like her for some vague reason.

      • Oblios_Cap

        e-mails!

    • Proud Liberal

      Oh the irony of it all.

  • Mavenmaven

    Whether something happens or is entirely fictional does not influence its becoming a right wing talking point.

    • Oblios_Cap

      Actually, they tend to like the fictional facts better.

      • Historicat

        Fictional facts are so much more cooperative.

  • Oblios_Cap

    And who can forget such Handel knee-slappers as the time she cut off funding for Planned Parenthood’s life-saving cancer screenings when she was an executive at the Susan G. Komen Foundation. Too bad she had to resign over that, but she’s landed a new job that pays $174K with free health care.

    • Shibusa

      I never gave a dime to Komen after that, despite Handel’s resignation.

  • WotsAllThisThen

    I guess Georgia voters decided they want all those San Francisco techies to have a tax cut.

  • Villago Delenda Est

    Karen Handel is a serious asshole.

    • Maggielle

      I’m looking forward to Melissa McCarthy’s portrayal.

  • Proud Liberal
    • WotsAllThisThen

      The Senate is supposed to favor smaller states. The real problem is the House does the same.

      • Villago Delenda Est

        When you carefully craft the districts, as GOP legislatures have been doing, it all falls into place. Something like the old “rotten borough” system in the English Parliament.

        • therblig

          i always voted at my party’s call
          and i never thought of thinking for myself at all

  • Ryan Denniston

    OT: Jeh Johnson on the teevee talking about Russia! That’s a real pickmeup!

    http://www.npr.org/2017/06/21/533666328/security-of-state-election-systems-the-focus-of-dueling-capitol-hill-hearings

  • Me not sure

    Karen Handel will not be very kickable because she will duck to the back of the room, sit down, shut up, and vote as she is told. She’s not smart enough to do anything else, and she knows it. Georgia Republicans like do-nothings in Congress. That’s what they expect, and that’s what they get. Look at our two Senators David Perdue and Johnny Isakson if you need proof. They are absolute nothingburgers.

  • Robbertjan Brandenburg

    Twitter: International diplomacy can perfectly be done in 140 characters.

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/877234140483121152

    • Ryan Denniston

      What the f does this mean?? Oh well, at least he tried, TIME TO GO TO WAR???

      • WotsAllThisThen

        At least we know the archduke Ferdinand tried.

      • Proud Liberal

        Don’t you smell a Reischtag fire?

    • Oblios_Cap

      Mama tried,too. It didn’t work.

    • Michael Smith

      Oh, yes. Bismarck would be proud.

    • Villago Delenda Est

      He’s such a worthless sack of shit.

      • Oblios_Cap

        Making America the World’s Laughingstock – MAWL!

    • kareemachan

      But drumpster *liked* Kim and wanted to meet him, right?

    • Resistance Fighter Astraea

      He’s so relatable!

    • Mr. Blobfish

      Chy-nuh

    • Bub, Zombie of the Resistance

      “C’mon back to Mar-a-Lago any time, Xi. There’s always more of that beautiful chocolate cake!”

  • Mr. Blobfish

    For being so diabolical and all-powerful, the Clinton-Soros machine sure sucks at stealing elections.

    • Ryan Denniston

      I was not asked to promise to vote for Ossoff by Soros. Maybe he’s slipping?

    • Villago Delenda Est

      It’s amazing that Sean Hannity is still alive with the Clinton Death Squads at large.

    • BreakingDeadMen

      I know, right? We should give them back our paychecks out of shame.

  • memzilla Ω

    The big lesson here is that George Soros and Barbra Streisand need to buy more 737 jets and spray stronger anti-GOP brainwashing chemtrails.

  • Joe Beese
    • Oblios_Cap

      Greenwald is a turd.

    • Villago Delenda Est

      Putin puppet sez wut?

    • Lori

      No one needs to hear Greewald’s thoughts on Dem party strategy. He can join Susan Sarandon in STFU.

      • Joe Beese

        OK. How about this guy?

        … there will clearly be some second-guessing about Ossoff’s messaging choices. He didn’t focus overwhelmingly on President Trump or the GOP health bill (two topics that Handel also largely avoided). And he certainly didn’t run as an economic populist.

        Instead, he emphasized his willingness to cut wasteful spending, and criticized Handel for her role in a five-year-old controversy in which the Susan G. Komen foundation, where she was a top official at the time, cut off breast cancer screening funding for Planned Parenthood.

        https://www.vox.com/2017/6/20/15844132/georgia-special-election-ossoff-analysis

        • Lori

          He makes some good points, but “The Dems need to outperform Clinton. Three of them did. Ossoff didn’t, ergo the Dems are doooomed” doesn’t seem that helpful to me.

          Neither does complaining that Ossoff didn’t run hard against TrumpDon’tCare. On healthcare, in a deep red district it’s nearly impossible to run hard against what might happen and the GOPers did a very good job keeping the details of their shit sandwich behind the deli counter until after the election. I fully expect people running in 2018 to run differently because by then they’ll have something to run again (FSM save us all).

    • Ryan Denniston

      I’m certainly appreciative of the serious and sincere concern Greenwald shares with us on behalf of the Democrats for future electoral success. Fuckwad.

    • alwayspunkindrublic

      Help us Greenwald and Assange, you’re the only ones who can save us!

    • SeeTrain65
  • canes_pugnaces

    My sister helped to run the Marietta Ossoff operation. Her take(s) are as follows:

    1) The tarring and feathering of Ossoff with Pelosi was a sure fire dagger in the heart;
    2) His not living in the district was also lethal;
    3) He was milquetoast on progressive issues;
    4) Republicans are morons; and,
    5) First and foremost, the GOP is running a highly effective agit prop campaign painting Democrats as violent sociopaths and snowflakes who are murder killing all the congressmen (and stuff), and really don’t want to suck Trump’s tiny little appendage.

    • Shibusa

      I really wish Pelosi would make way for new blood in that position.

      • Antonin Dvorak

        Does it matter? The new guy/gal would just become the GOP strawman anyway.

        • Shibusa

          I think it does matter, although I hear what you’re saying.

        • alwayspunkindrublic

          It doesn’t matter. If there isn’t something real to tar a Dem with, they’ll just make shit up. Exhibit A: Swift-boating John Kerry. We live in a fact free world now.

        • canes_pugnaces

          I agree, but when I heard Pelosi on the steps of the capital–post election–singing ‘This Land is Your Land’ in her wobbly voice, I wanted to scratch her vocal chords out.

      • Proud Liberal

        We don’t need a new shiny object to follow. We need experienced people leading us right now. America has lost its way.

        • h4rr4r

          How can that work if her name kills our chances?

          • Proud Liberal

            She could have gone to the district and spoke to the voters. She’s actually very likable.

          • h4rr4r

            Is this a joke, are you trolling?

            Her name is used as a slur. Just her name. They won’t talk to her or see her. Put her name on the placard and people will stay away.

          • Snopes Shop

            We forget how much she has done for us because she’s “old blood”

        • Shibusa

          A agree with that too but Pelosi’s not leading anyone anywhere.

        • BigCSouthside

          No. Sorry. Pelosi needs to leave congress and work behind the scenes. While I think unfair, she is a political anchor.

          I think our ultimate person would be a “liberal redneck” type. Gets the heartland but is progressive

      • BreakingDeadMen

        I feel like replacing Pelosi, who in general has been good at getting her unruly caucus to come together, because she offends people who hate women, liberals or both is a win for the wrong team.

        • Shibusa

          Surely there is more than one person in the Democratic House who can get their unruly caucus to come together, and that person will undoubtedly draw the ire of those who hate women, liberals, browns, Muslims, etc.

          • BreakingDeadMen

            I’m sure, but I don’t feel like she has been bad at the job and doesn’t deserve to be punished to appease critics who are outside her bailiwick.

      • Snopes Shop

        New, meaning “younger” blood?

        • Shibusa

          No. Just somebody new and different. And I genuinely admire Pelosi for getting to the top in what is most certainly a man’s game.

    • Progressives cannot appeal to the regressive’s sensibilities, they have none to appeal to.

  • kareemachan

    Totally O/T: I just read about a “new” tick disease – the lone star tick can make you horribly allergic to meat proteins. Lone star cuz how it looks and it used to be only found in the SW, but has spread to the NE and midwest now.

    Something tells me that this spread of their territory is probably related to climate change, so maybe Ricky Oops Perry can explain that as well.

    ETA: My SIL came down with Lyme disease last year, and his doctor was like, “Huh, I’ve not seen it here before….”

    I don’t want to say we’re doomed, but Nature seems to be pretty PO’ed at us right now…

  • OddMan

    Sorry but no, we are fucked. Donald has done 10 different things that would have gotten any other person impeached. Hell, you can pick 10 out of a list of 100.
    The GOP base will stick with him, period.
    I truly think our country is never going to be the same, trump and the mindless craven idiots that follow him are the beginning of the end.
    I never thought I would be alive to see the US go down the toilet like this.

    FUCK!

    • Proud Liberal

      On its dying breath. I don’t think people understand how much trouble this country is in right now.

      • Bub, Zombie of the Resistance

        I tend to agree. Trumpism is doing damage that will still be manifesting itself long after his flaccid corpse is gagging maggots. Although we need to remember that the Republican party with their complete corruption and disregard for the truth was well on the way to doing all this long before Trump rode down that escalator in front of a bunch of paid “supporters” waving signs. Donnie is just the purulent cherry atop a sundae made of dogshit and rotting pig sphincters

        • Proud Liberal

          I blame the rise of Trump on Republicans. Their total lack of respect for President Obama and his voters was astonishing to watch. I knew we were in trouble when they blatantly stole a Supreme Court seat. The demise of America is ugly.

          • Ninja0980

            Democrats not having a spine didn’t help.
            The SCOTUS seat should have been front and center every day,

        • Maggielle

          I don’t have kids and I’m still feeling massive parental guilt about what we’re leaving for the next few generations. I have to bite my tongue to keep from apologizing to random five year olds.

        • Wild Cat

          Yeah. I’m so tired of this obsession with him. I wish there’d be a day free of him and the stupid memes. How many times can one look at feces?
          There are so many scumbags who set this up; and there are so many more competent scumbags in place to ensure everything is fucked up well into the next century, if there is one.

    • Villago Delenda Est

      Donald was not wrong when he said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and it wouldn’t cost him any support. His followers are that fucking stupid and amoral.

    • OutOfOrbit

      I sensed, when Ronnie-baby Raygun won a second term, that our days were limited and if I lived to 65, I would see the end.

      • Proud Liberal

        We are witnessing its final days if we don’t pull our heads out and fast.

        • OutOfOrbit

          That may not be any easier than getting our heads stuck up here to begin with.

          • Proud Liberal

            A sad state of affairs that’s for sure.

      • Wild Cat

        I’m luckier than most, perhaps. I wish there was a singles service for people who want to meet up and emmigrate to a functioning, less-lethal nation. Insurance may be a problem, but two people together may be able to figure something out.
        Hell, I might have to start this website. ;-)

        • Maggielle

          At this point, we have to wonder who’d welcome us on a permanent type basis. “Americans need not apply.”

          • Wild Cat

            Places like Costa Rica. Ireland is looking to replenish its population with people in the US who left. Some Slavic areas (if you’re white.) There are choices. Money helps.

          • Maggielle

            Interesting, honestly. You may qualify, but I doubt I would. Too old and no enough money. Plus I feel obligated to stay. But I’d still visit your website. Send me a post card some day. Hello from the other side.

          • Wild Cat

            Thanks. I’m too old too—late 50s.
            Optimally, one could “telecommute” to the US, get a salary and benefits, but live in 3-month intervals in a better nation.
            There’s a lot of ideas worth exploring. With the US, new ideas may be moot. The US has entered a Dark Age. My guess genocide is the next step for these lunatics. Then no one will care about optimal emmigration—we’ll all be Syrians.

          • Maggielle

            I know a lot of rich people, because I do jobs for them and take care of their houses and pets. While out walking a dog in Tiburon, I ran into a woman who was getting ready to go with her husband for their annual six month stay in New Zealand. (That’s as long as they can stay – they have money, but they are elderly.) While they are away, a wealthy Minneapolis couple comes to stay at their very nice Tiburon home. It was a cool arrangement, cool enough that I couldn’t even get envious. (Also because it seems like an alternate universe to me.)

        • alwayspunkindrublic

          Desperatepessimistsonly.com

    • alwayspunkindrublic

      Everything Obama accomplished-and FDR for that matter- has gone the way of Reconstruction. Sometimes the bigots and assholes really do win.

    • Ryan Denniston

      Imagine Ted Cruz adopting Trump’s strategy in 2020. He’s competent to boot!

      • chicken thief

        But Lyin Ted doesn’t have Putin’s support.

    • Everrett Fanuelli

      Yup. I need to start looking into other countries that don’t quarantine dogs.

    • BigCSouthside

      Republicans behave like a cult. They vote republican and won’t even consider a dem

      • chicken thief

        And let the terreriss win?! Have you forgotten how they brought down the Twin Towers right after Obama was elected?!!1!!!

    • Blackest Noobs

      people of color, people of low income….yeah we always saw this coming.
      but most of y’all didn’t bother listening ( not you good folks) said we were whiners and complainers.

      • msanthropesmr

        This. All of this.

  • Michael R

    ” … over the past 12 months, 70 percent of buyers of Trump properties were limited liability companies, which allowed individuals to form corporations to buy the real estate without revealing the new owners’ names. “

    • Villago Delenda Est

      The money laundering bidness has been very, very good to Donald.

  • Jeffocaster in the East

    I think that the results show some hope, but still a hundred thousand morons voted against their own interest (even wealthy suburbanites). It is shameful, it depresses me, it is horrible. This country is definitely on a downward spiral. Fuck it all……

    • Proud Liberal

      More than 50% of the voters have to show up for Democrats to even have a chance.

    • msanthropesmr

      But I have a truck! There’s that!

      • therblig

        are you rolling coal? otherwise, it’s not a real truck.

      • Jeffocaster in the East

        Not yet you don’t…..show me the money!

        • msanthropesmr

          I will gladly pay you Tuesday.

      • Me not sure

        If’n hit ain’t done been lifted fer muddin’ yew ain’t a real American

        • Jeffocaster in the East

          It’s a toyota, so it ain’t americun nohow

      • Everrett Fanuelli

        Holy shit! Reminds me of the lame Chevy commercial out there now with all the blue collar guys creaming their jeans over how the truck looks.

  • Bozilingus
  • Everrett Fanuelli

    Problem is too many drones on the right and too many purists and apathetic people on the left.

    • anthonypete300

      yes. Their purists do end up voting for the their team. Ours vote third party and sacrifice the good of the whole society if they don’t get everything they want.

  • anthonypete300
    • Everrett Fanuelli

      Agreed.

      • anthonypete300

        We’re going to lose the midterms because we don’t show up like they do. We only have a shot at 2020 with Bernie (from a Hilary supporter in the primaries and general). We need the passion he engendered among young people. He would have won all Hilz votes plus the liberals who went third party plus some of the Obama voters who went for Trump which was 9% of the vote.

        • Everrett Fanuelli

          Not this shit again.

          • anthonypete300

            Not sure what shit you mean but I only recently came to this conclusion. I rejected the idea for a long time. I’m no Bernie Bro but I do remember my republican relatives saying that their friends would have had a hard time choosing between Trump and Bernie.

          • Lori

            JFC on a cracker. Anyone who has a hard time choosing between Trump and Bernie is a total idiot who has absolutely no idea what’s going on. There is literally no logic to that other than wanting to vote for an “outsider” or Not Clinton. Clinton isn’t running again so that won’t be a factor in 2018 or 2020 and we can’t build an electoral strategy around people who are totally clueless.

            IMO our first job is increasing Dem turnout for the midterms. If we can peel some Trumpers off the margins that’s great, but we can’t focus on the people who have their heads that far up their asses.

          • anthonypete300

            I agree. But the margin of victory for Trump came down to third party voters and that very slim slice of Obama voters who went for Trump. Bernie could have won them both.

            If you want to sell someone something, a car or anything, you don’t have to like them, you don’t have to respect them, they don’t have to be smart. You just have to know what they want and what motivates them. Just ask the republicans. No one disdains or works against the interests of their voters more then them but they know what motivates their voters and that’s one of the reasons their winning.

    • Stulexington

      If you do not vote, you do not get to complain about politics.

      • Lori

        Exactly. Show up or shut up.

        • Ninja0980

          Yup and if your candidate isn’t 100% perfect, too damn bad.
          A lot of folks didn’t like Trump or Handel but they were damned if a Democrat was going to take that seat.

      • anthonypete300

        people who do that suck but the real problem is people who don’t really think or talk much about politics in their everyday lives and who don’t vote but would vote dem if it was very very easy to do. It’s a very hard thing to do.

        • Lori

          For most people voting is still not a very hard thing to do. GOP voter suppression is heinous and we need to keep fighting it tooth and nail, but ultimately it effects a fairly small percentage of the voting population.

          Voting ought to be more convenient than it is, but at it’s absolute worst it’s not exactly the Bataan death march. We know that people will stand on the sidewalk for hours and hours and hours to vote here in the US because we’ve seen them do it. We need to get enough Dems focused enough to get the turnout up for the midterms.

          This is absolutely critical and will be more critical if SCOTUS doesn’t do something about blatant gerrymandering. If vote manipulation is allowed to continue the way it is and people don’t throw the breaks on in the next couple of elections the US will effectively be a one party state. People need to get that and get off their asses and vote.

  • MynameisBlarney
  • La forza del resistino

    This lady is in for a shock as she journeys the Capitol halls and having real varsity reporters put a mic in her face and ask a question.
    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/karen-handel-lack-civility-journalism

    • Bozilingus

      Journalists should start “reporting” the news the way they did 80 years ago. Make up whatever you want and just print it.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DkipWRmpKI

      • jesterpunk

        You mean like Fox, Dead Breitbart, Infowars and other right wing sites already do?

        • Bozilingus

          “Both Sides Do It!” – New Faux Nuz motto

          • Villago Delenda Est

            “Both Sides Do It!” is the motto of the Village.

      • La forza del resistino

        Love Howard Hawks. He could squeeze 4 hours of dialogue into 2 hours.

  • Belasaurius

    it’s hard to rah rah when so many people vote against their own interests. This country is truly fucked.

  • Look, I’m going to do my best to help and vote in 2018, but I don’t think it’s going to be a wave election.

    I don’t think most Americans give a fuck about anything Trump has done, don’t give a fuck about the Russian ties, don’t give a fuck about healthcare until they lose it, so you know… fuck ’em. I’ll try and do what’s best for my family and help others out when I can, but if they don’t want to believe in a common good, justice, and a social safety net, then fuck ’em. They deserve to be rogered good and plenty by Trump and the GOP.

    • Proud Liberal

      The House seats are gerrymandered so heavily, 2018 is awash. We need to take the Senate if at all possible. Supreme Court seats are imperative!

    • anthonypete300

      yep

    • chicken thief

      I would agree but (and I hate to say this, but…) those goobers have kids and grandkids. The kids don’t deserve the fucking just because their asshat adult family members are asshats.

    • Parakeetist

      I has a sad.

  • Blackest Noobs

    people….it’s not the end of the world….calm down..take a breathe…relax….persist…resist.

  • alwayspunkindrublic

    Thirty years of hate radio, Fox, reality tv, and the systematic destruction of public education has finally accomplished its goal: The death of critical thinking and a sentient electorate. It doesn’t fucking matter if Ossoff was “soft” on some progressive issues, or if he was a combination of Jesus, Gandhi, and Emma Goldman. They just make shit up, the yokels buy it hook, line, and sinker, and the MSM scratches their collective melons and spends the next 6 months telling us how we need to reach out to the economically anxious white working class voters. The problem? He’s a Democrat…a fatal flaw and doomed to extinction. Inherently evil, a closet Communist and queer, an America-hater, no matter how meekly moderate. Welcome to the future.

    • Everrett Fanuelli

      This country was ratfucked long ago when churches started telling their parishioners that the rich were blessed and the poor and disenfranchised were meant to suffer because their treasures were in heaven.

      • alwayspunkindrublic

        I grew up in the activist social justice wing of Catholicism, so I think it’s a bit more complicated than that.

        • BreakingDeadMen

          Southern Baptists and Evangelicals are not Liberation Theorists.

          • Villago Delenda Est

            Mammonists. To the core. Southern Baptists got that way because the Baptists split over slavery.

        • Everrett Fanuelli

          Trust me I’m not talking about the sjw wing of any religion. Those wings are the minority.

      • anthonypete300

        Worse then that. They believe the poor are poor because they are sinful.

        • Oblios_Cap

          I knew there was a reason for my relative poverty!

          • alwayspunkindrublic

            Shiftless libtard….

    • La forza del resistino

      Payback for the party of the Kenyan interloper, and women in pants suits like Hilz and Pelosi. This is Georgia after all.

      • chicken thief

        In the neck of the woods where I grew up all you have to do is say “ObamaReidPelosi” and ever’ one nods in agreement of how horrible the world would be if they had their way. It would be give-aways for all and taxes through the roof.

    • BreakingDeadMen

      Not to relitigate 2016 again…BUT…it may have helped if BS didn’t publicly question him during the primary. I don’t know if it would have taken him to 50, but it can’t have helped him to have a prominent “Democrat” like Sanders not on board for him.

      • alwayspunkindrublic

        Fuck Bernie.

        • BreakingDeadMen

          He’s not helping.

      • alwayspunkindrublic

        And yes, the quotes around “Democrat”. Bernie’s not a Democrat, never has been. He’s an opportunist who saw the party as the quickest path to self-aggrandizement. He’s like the partner who will never commit…just take the good when he/she can, then walk away when things get rocky.

        • Shibusa

          I didn’t vote for Bernie but I think that’s a bit unfair. True, he started to believe his own press at some point, but I believe he truly cares about the plight of the middle class in America.

          • alwayspunkindrublic

            He does…and Susan Sarandon truly cares about the various causes she endorses. I think they both fail to understand how their white skin and relative affluence insulates them from the negative consequences of their purity crusade.

          • anthonypete300

            why are you putting them in the same boat when Bernie endorsed and campaigned for Hilary? And while Sarandon spends her life talking shit from her ivory tower Bernie has (unsuccessfully mind you) in government fighting for things he believes in.

          • Ninja0980

            Bernie undermined Hillary first and dragged the primary out much longer then it had to be.
            That can’t be undone.

          • anthonypete300

            I tend to agree but the irrational hatred for Hilary was something the party should have paid much greater attention to. Bernie did the right thing in the end.

          • Natalie

            And most reluctantly so that everyone could see his bad attitude about it.

          • alwayspunkindrublic

            Because they both tend to be more than a little sanctimonious. Yes, Bernie did endorse Hillary eventually, after convincing many of his acolytes that such a thing was beneath them. Which, to this day, they still cling to.

          • Natalie

            Yes, this. Thank you!

          • La Cieca

            “Yeah, I guess HIllary isn’t quite so bad as Trump. But FREE PONIES are better!” doesn’t count as an endorsement.

        • anthonypete300

          God that’s cynical. I voted for Hilz in the primary and general and some of Bernie’s fanatical purists made me mad but I truly believe that he is passionate about his positions and the country. And I think he could win in 2020.

          • alwayspunkindrublic

            Donald Trump is president of the United States. Fuck right I’m cynical. And no offense, but the Bernie train has left the station. And I voted for him too, btw.

          • anthonypete300

            I think he’s running in 2020

          • alwayspunkindrublic

            I wish I thought that was a good thing. What, he’s going to be 113 years old in 2020?

          • Three Finger Salute

            79. He’ll be 80 when he takes office or shortly thereafter. That would mean dementia-laden Reagan the third oldest president after Trump.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            I think that, practically, he shouldn’t run in 2020. He’s too old and, frankly, may die. The shit they gave Clinton about supposed “health scares” will be a thousand fold.

            If Bernie runs in 2020, expect a republican president.

          • La Cieca

            Great, then we can have someone yelling the same speech at us every day for four years.

          • anthonypete300

            yep, or we can just keep fucking losing

          • alwayspunkindrublic

            We obviously disagree. Look, I think your heart’s in the right place. I voted for Bernie in the primaries-with some doubts-because he most accurately represents my political beliefs. I’ve also learned over the course of my life that someone most like me is not necessarily the best or most effective candidate or leader. I’m glad someone like Bernie is around; I also think he was a terrible candidate who attracted zealous followers but alienated more, and ultimately did more damage than good in that role. I don’t have any easy answers or solutions, but I’m pretty sure it isn’t Bernie. I’m pretty dug in about this…as are you. I don’t want to insult you by ranting about it…as I will almost certainly end up doing, given the vile mood I’m in right now over our current political situation. So, let’s agree to disagree, yeah?

          • Parakeetist

            He didn’t even win the primary in 2016.

      • La Cieca

        I wish that annoying old man would just shut up.

    • Lance Thrustwell

      I still cling to my pathetic fantasy of non-crazy, completely legit independent candidates actually getting support. I would take a candidate who was a mix of left and right positions (e.g. pro-gun and pro-life, but also pro-environment and pro-progressive taxation/pro-national healthcare) over anything the GOP has to offer right now.

      • Lori

        That isn’t going to happen for a whole bunch of reasons, and wouldn’t be desirable in any case. Not least because as currently defined “pro-life” is antithetical to liberal ideals. I’m not supporting anyone who treats a clump of cells as a person, and me and other grown ass women as less than people. And yes, denying us bodily autonomy is treating us as less than people.

      • Rachel Book Harlot

        I wouldn’t give up my reproductive rights nor those of any other woman for anyone. I don’t give a crap how good the candidate is. Women shouldn’t have to sacrifice themselves. And I’d be suspicious of any candidate who could run on such a platform because what they would in essence be saying is that women are not important.

    • Shibusa

      Did you read Jane Mayer’s “Dark Money”? The Kochs played a long game, and they seem to be winning it.

      • alwayspunkindrublic

        I was only able to get through about half of it…library due date, plus, it was so profoundly dispiriting that I struggled to continue reading.

        • Shibusa

          Yeah. I listened to the audiobook while walking my dogs. It got me upset every single day.

          • Lori

            Same here (minus the dogs). I would not have gotten through reading it because it was so depressing. I do much better listening to difficult books on audio while I walk or do chores. (I just started a book about Operation Paperclip, which brought straight up Nazis to the US after WWII to do our weapons research. I fully expect to be upset most of the time.)

          • alwayspunkindrublic

            That’s on my depressing reading list as well. I’ve read up enough on Werner von Braun to already know the basics of that disgraceful story.

          • Shibusa

            If you haven’t already, try “The Boys in the Boat” audiobook. I loved it.

          • Lori

            I listened to that one a couple years ago and yes, it was excellent. These days I do about 90% of my nonfiction reading on audio and it’s significant;y increased the number of nonfiction books I get through each year. (I can’t do fiction on audio.)

          • Shibusa

            Same here, with a few exceptions (re fiction). I also like ‘true crime’ for audiobooks even though I have never been drawn to that in a physical book that I sit down and read.

          • Lori

            My theory is that listening to nonfiction is a lot like listening to lectures in school, and I have lots of practice doing that. Fiction is processed in a different way and I can’t do the longform version of “tell me a story.” My mind wanders, and even when it doesn’t the story is doesn’t flow for me and all the magic of fiction is drained out of it.

          • Three Finger Salute

            Not just weapons but propaganda and other things. MK Ultra was an outgrowth of that.

      • Ninja0980

        Same with the courts.
        Republicans have a whole group devoted solely to getting young, conservative jurists on the bench while our side barely gives the courts a second thought.

      • Natalie

        Yes, and so should anyone who wants to know exactly what we are up against.

  • BreakingDeadMen

    Jesus, though, She is dense. She read her victory speech like Cheech advertising the Evelyn Woodhead Speedreading Course. And her exchange with Ben Jacobs was contemptible.

    • SeeTrain65

      Ben hasn’t made many GOP friends lately.

      Keep up the good work, Ben.

  • Dr. Rrrrrobotnik

    Calm down, everybody. We’re living and dying over a skirmish. And the prognostications that we’re all doomed and fucked are actually pretty much carbon copies of the lamentations of the Republicans 8 years ago, with the nouns switched around.

    Lookit, we do have some work to do. While Republicans have the easy task of getting their voters to the polls by just offering low taxes, waiving a crucifix, and winking at bigotry, we Democrats are like a diner with a comprehensive menu that offers a mediocre dish for everyone, but not a compelling dish for those who are not famished. It isn’t enough to just run on incremental changes, we need to promise something big that the Republicans don’t offer, and then run the hell on that. That’s really it.

    This is all cyclical, and yes, this is the part of the cycle where we have to grab our ankles for a bit. But the Republicans are already far into the process of fucking themselves over.

    • Everrett Fanuelli

      I understand what you’re saying but I think most of us agree that this cycle is going the way of the dinosaur with the gerrymandering, vote rigging, voter supression, et al.

      • Dr. Rrrrrobotnik

        It’s true that gerrymandering has fucked us for this cycle. But the census comes up again in 2020, when the playing field is far more favorable and the Republicans have to defend Donald Trump’s administration. We have every opportunity to tilt it back towards ourselves, if we get our shit together.

        • Everrett Fanuelli

          Except that the Republicans are even trying to gerrymander the census.

          • Maggielle

            I want to become a Census Warrior. Get to the root of at least one of the problems. I wonder what I can do to fight Republican gerrymandering. What’s a ground game for this? Must research.

          • Three Finger Salute

            “What’s a ground game for this?”

            Trump eating you like Hannibal Lecter?

    • Edith Prickly

      “we need to promise something big that the Republicans don’t offer, and then run the hell on that.”

      Hmmm….like a single payer health care plan?

      • Dr. Rrrrrobotnik

        Something a tad more doable and that makes easy sense to everyone, like allowing prescription drugs from out of the country (dress it up as competition).

      • NastyBossetti

        Like integrity?

      • President in Exile Firefly

        Or not colluding with Russia?

    • Shibusa

      Okay but the lamentations of the Republicans 8 years ago were based on racism and ignorance. The lamentations of the liberals today are based on the many disturbing, likely criminal, and possibly treasonous actions of a 71 year old pathological liar/man baby.

      • Dr. Rrrrrobotnik

        Their lamentations were based on the fact that they’d just gotten their asses kicked on every front and had no power. It was actually worse for them, since we had (briefly) a filibuster-proof majority. Our lamentations are based on us getting our asses kicked on every front. And they were dealing with functionally the same electorate.

        • Ninja0980

          They were smart enough to focus on state legislatures.
          We were at one point as well but forgot about that.
          We want to win again, that is the place to start.

      • And his cabinet of cruelties.

    • Lance Thrustwell

      Calm down?!?!! Gaahh!!! {makes angry Donald Duck noises, runs around, arms waving}

    • alwayspunkindrublic

      Ahem….that’s “squirmish”.

      • NastyBossetti

        Totally unrelated to anything going on here, but I just saw this: http://beerstreetjournal.com/stone-punk-in-drublic/

        • alwayspunkindrublic

          This is the most awesome thing I’ve seen for a long time. Thank you. I should probably lay in a lifetime supply, right? Stone Brewing saved my life one time, also too. Did I ever tell you that story?

          • NastyBossetti

            No! Do tell.
            Stone has a brewery in Richmond, VA now, where some of my brothers and one of my sisters live, so I’m hoping they will be making it there so I can enjoy it one evening on the brewery’s patio, right from the source.

          • alwayspunkindrublic

            So, we were playing a benefit for a local museum-volunteer, of course-that was raising money via a beer-tasting. We went to grab a couple of beers before we were slated to start, and were promptly intercepted by Ms. Hitler, who was in charge of the benefit, informing us that they will NOT be serving beer before exactly 7p.m., and that we were expected to be playing AT exactly 7p.m., so no suds for you, pal. I waited until she was called elsewhere, then slunk over the the Stone Brewing booth and explained the situation to them. They were all, “don’t worry, we’ll hook you up”. About 10 minutes into our set, I notice one of their guys dropping off a 5 gallon water jug behind the stage, which happened to be half full of Arrogant Bastard IPA. I am careful about drinking very much when performing-because reasons-but we got so fucked up we were having drunks from the crowd request songs and come up on stage to sing shit like “Brown Eyed Girl” and Eagles songs for 10 bucks a pop. Totally degrading. I locked my gear in my truck and caught a sober ride home that night.

          • NastyBossetti

            Sounds like a good time! When you say you are careful about drinking very much when performing, I am just going to assume you mean you are careful to DO it, not careful to avoid it.

          • alwayspunkindrublic

            Ha…well, yes and no. Beers are extremely important, but I also look at gigs as a job I’ve been hired for or agreed to perform honorably…so I don’t want to stink the joint up being drunken fools.

    • Lord Jim

      Bizarrely, individual Democratic policies poll well (single-payer, higher min wage, etc), but Democratic candidates, not so much. :?

      • Three Finger Salute

        Not all Democratic policies. “Social issues” tend to rile people up. And the plays-in-Peoria electorate doesn’t like minorities telling them what to do. Ossoff looks like Ricky Nelson. Him talking about jobs or healthcare would work. Kamala Harris? Not so much. And either one would alienate half the country by committing the unforgivable sin of saying “women’s rights are human rights” and “LGBT people deserve equality.” So-called meat-and-potatoes issues poll well because having a job is something everybody can agree on.

        That said, where it gets really messy and even creates infighting within the party is when “social issues” or “identity politics” or whatever it’s called becomes the subject of debate. That stuff tends to get people fighting in the street. It’s not called a “culture war” for nothing — and the left is partially at fault for the outcome, because they pushed too far into the nonsense realm and wouldn’t let go of “microaggressions” as a legitimate campaign issue. This used to be called “making a mountain out of a molehill.” Now it’s got a fancy academic term, and the majority of people — including rank-and-file Democrats — don’t want it codified into law.

        Trump won in large part because Americans decided they’d had enough of college kids rioting over sombreros, mass protests being held over an alleged dearth of minorities in the category “$20-million-per-picture movie stars,” and Tumbler coming up with an endless list of pronouns and gender/sexual identities to remember. Even one of the Weekend Update guys admitted it, when he talked about Facebook adding something like 75 new gender identities to their already extensive Pokédex. He said Facebook was calling the new feature “Why Democrats Lost.” I never even heard of half this stuff. The fuck is an “allosexual” and what’s it got to do with with the price of clothes from China?

        • Lord Jim

          With respect, may I point out that Trump only “won” the electoral college? He lost the popular vote – against a candidate plastered by the media for 30 years as a cold-hearted, elitst, self-serving, establishment politician. Trump’s base is clearly not as large as some believe. Republican gerrymandering and vote suppression had more to do with Trump’s electoral college coronation.

  • Resistance Fighter Callyson
    • Villago Delenda Est

      But that happened more than 10 minutes ago!

    • Vagenda and Pee-ara

      They won 2010 by telling everyone a black man, who got elected president only because of affirmative action, was going to break into their houses, force them to have health care, then steal their guns, kill them and rape their wives, and force their hound dogs to gay marry. It was remarkably effective, because America is full of idiots.

      • La Cieca

        The difference here is that Trump is actually going to do most of those things.

        • Villago Delenda Est

          He’s not going to steal the guns. Unless Vlad tells him to.

        • Vagenda and Pee-ara

          He better not force my dog to gay marry!

      • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

        On a related note, I had a gay Labrador once. No, seriously, he only ever tried to bone male dogs.

        • Vagenda and Pee-ara

          I had a male dog come on to my dog at the vet’s office once. The very proper British lady who owned him said “I’m sorry, but I’m afraid my dog is a homosexual.” My badass little mutt, who would fight any dog regardless of size, was confused and slightly afraid of the little poofy dog.

    • Lord Jim

      In support of your point, I point out ONCE AGAIN the historical tendency for the President’s party to lose congressional seats in the midterm. This is the idiotic American electorate’s way of politically “splitting the difference”. And, particularly in these polarized times, a surefire formula for gridlock.

  • Canis Greyhame

    they got the guns but
    we got the numbers

    https://youtu.be/oOzpncIHCLs

  • Ninja0980

    Put it bluntly, while I wanted Ossoff to win, making this a race with national implications was STUPID.
    The elections in VA and NJ this fall are just as important if not more then this seat was and will be a bigger bellweather IMO.
    We want to take control back, then focus on local and state elections.

    • VirginiaLady

      I’ve heard rumblings in our fair commonwealth and unless we can teach a whole heck of a lot of pigs to sing we is going back to red. Voting may count for less than who tallies those votes in a very sinister way. Clip enough lil backwater counties and your guy wins. They have the worst security and are less inclined to use what little they do have. “Allegedly. “

  • Bitter Scribe

    Sorry, Dok, but I refuse to “cheer the fuck up.” I am tired of trying to spin losses as victories just because they’re close.

    Goddamn it, this country is going down the shitter, and that’s where it’ll stay until people WAKE THE FUCK UP and stop electing pukebuckets like Handel and Gianforte.

    • La Cieca

      I like your positive, constructive attitude.

    • Antonin Dvorak

      Considering the 18 and 20 point swings last night, people are waking up it seems.

      • Bitter Scribe

        Yeah, well, not enough of them.

  • Cogswell – in a mirror darkly

    And I’m betting the Supreme Court rules in favor of gerrymandering here in Wisconsin. As usual, it takes less than 50% of the vote to win here.

    • BadKitty904

      If they don’t now, they certainly will as soon as the GOP Congress can pack the SCOTUS.

      • Three Finger Salute

        Kennedy is slated to retire before 2020.

        RBG is in her 80s.

        We are so screwed.

        • BadKitty904

          To me, this is the SINGLE greatest threat facing America. We cannot “be patient” – we have GOT to break the Republican death-grip on Congress NOW – by vote, by recall, by whatever legal means is necessary.

    • Ninja0980

      It’ll be 5-4, and all because both parties are the same.

  • BadKitty904
  • AnnieGetYerFun

    What this means, kids, is that Republicans will be vulnerable in 2018, especially if they manage to actually push through the horrors they want to unleash on us, like their secret plan to take healthcare away from tens of millions of Americans.

    Remember that those horrors won’t take effect until a time that suits the Republicans. Like a few months before a presidential election.

  • timpundit

    This is not a disaster for real people. It is a disaster for this airy-fairy ‘narrative’..and mthis will last until the weekend then on to the next story. Seriously, ask your favorite low-info voter about this. They don’t give that much of a shit.

    Democrats almost took a deep red seat, and Republicans had to spend around 50 million dollars to retain a PREVIOUSLY safe seat….and now they know they have about 80 seats in 2018 that are much less safe than this one was.

    If democrats can’t see the huge silver limning here then they should have a few shots go lay down. I for one am thrilled for the future of the democrats.

    • NastyBossetti

      I see the silver lining but would still like to have a few shots and go lay down.

      • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

        Cheers!

    • Yeah this is an important thing to keep in mind. I was expecting to be furious and screaming at the radio this AM, but was pleasantly distracted by coverage of the intelligence committee hearings.

      And reminded that the next thing is already happening.

  • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

    I will add this fact as well. Over 1000 voters in Dakalb country were gerrymandered out of GA6 very recently.

    It’s important to take all the factors into consideration here. I mean, what’s the only other option? Throw our hands up and quit? That shit is what got us 45 IN THE FIRST PLACE. There is dick all we can do about districts we can’t actually vote in. Maybe I’m more realistic because I have lived and voted in red states my entire voting life. I see what goes down here and it is always shady as fuck. To people who live in districts or states where the vote is more evenly counted, it’s easy to think this election a failure. I am not taking it that way.

    The most we can do is vote and encourage others to vote. That is all we can do. Unless, of course, some of us decide to take the Bernie purity pledge and start proclaiming the death of the Democratic party. I mean, that kind of mentality has been super helpful in the past.

    • anthonypete300

      Lots of Dems will take the Bernie purity pledge so as a hilz voter I think Bernie’s kinda the only way we win in 2020.

      • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

        But Bernie’s not a Democrat. He’s only a democrat when it’s convenient for him.

        • anthonypete300

          yeah, so he should definitely not run as a democrat even if he can win as a democrat and he’s probably the only one who can.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            Well, you’re wrong about that. He did run as a democrat and he lost. Bernie Saunders is a great senator, but we can’t build a platform around him. He chills our base and will not get any centrist support from republicans.

            You don’t win elections by elevating candidates who divide their own party. That’s a huge part of what happened last year.

          • miss_grundy

            Says who? When the Rethugs show him hobnobbing with Daniel Ortega and the Sandinistas, his campaign will blow up. You need to start doing oppo research on Bernie.

          • Three Finger Salute

            And his honeymoon in the USSR and his idiotic “rape fantasy” article. Plus, he refused to disavow the term “socialist.” That’s the #1 smear the rethugs are even using against Hitler now. Not that he was a racist, genocidal dictator — because they like that, it’s why they voted for Putin (by proxy). No, Rethugs hate Hbecause he was a “national socialist” and therefore just another damn commie.

            Bernie can’t win either because he’s considered a traitor to “his own” — he’s a secular, nonpracticing Jew who supports the rights of Palestinians over the one-state final solution that Netanyahu wants. That alienates C Street, the New York Orthodox that Kushner belongs to, the evangelicals, and most of mainstream America that really, really hates Muslims and doesn’t really care about the Israeli-Palestinian issue, but supports Israel by default because “Hitler”. It’s also bad for the very profitable endless war machine and for oil companies who want to continue plundering the resources in the Middle East using “our special relationship with Israel” as an excuse.

            Bernie’s platform is similar to Jeremy Corbyn’s. Jeremy Corbyn, if he was born in this country, would have 0% chance of winning so much as dogcatcher here. We are never going to have so much as an FDR again, because it’s anathema to our national DNA, so I don’t even know why the Bernout spoilers keep trying to push the national platform into Corbyn territory. Individual states, maybe. But not federal. We should focus on winning with mainstream Dems who are going to make things better than the off-the-rails fascist theocracy the GOP has for us (still no single-payer healthcare or legal weed, but at least we can buy some time for the planet and it won’t be legal to kill gays for sport and claim religious freedom as an exemption), and leave the fantasy platforms for sane places like Canada and the EU.

      • miss_grundy

        When is Bernie going to take rhe Democrat pledge and put a D after his name? If he is only going to align with the party when it is convenient then he can take a long walk off a short pier.

        • anthonypete300

          yeah, fuck him even if he might be the only one who could win as a democrat. Let’s cut off our noses and just keep winning!

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            Well, you’re the one suggesting we cut off our noses.

            If you’re going to be such a contrarian and, frankly, smelling like a Berniebros, then you’re not going to get much respect around here.

          • anthonypete300

            well, that’s crushing as my only goal in life is to gain your respect. I can’t give up my dream, so I guess I’ll just keep trying.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            Obviously your goal here is to gain something. You’ve posted more on this particular thread than in the last two years combined.

            Whose your candidate.

          • He’s not a Democrat. He’s an indie precisely because he could not win as a Democrat.
            I stumped for Bernie. I like him. But if you think he is going to win as a Democrat you are full of it. He could not even win the Democratic primary as a Democrat, let alone a general, and we’re chock full of libtards even

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            I supported Bernie in the primaries. I liked his ideas on healthcare specifically as well as College tuition and student loan forgiveness.

            That said, I voted for Hillary Clinton in the general election and have never regretted that vote. I was happy to cast it. I would vote the same exact way today.

            Reasonable people have to compromise. We all have to do it. No compromise means never getting anything done.

      • Lori

        Can we not? The Dems need another Nader like we need a hole in the head. Bernie is not going to save us and people need to fucking drop this shit.

        • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

          Amen!

          Bernie has a lot of good ideas, but he has a lot of baggage as well. He will divide the democratic party and alienate the centrist republicans. What am I saying “will”, he already has.

          • what, me worry?

            Agreed. Let’s stay the course. I mean, 1100 losses in 9 years isn’t like, a “pattern”, right? We should just keep on with the same bad advice we’ve gotten from the same disconnected Party consultants, who are making millions while driving the party into a ditch, because we like losing.

          • anthonypete300

            Yeah, and don’t forget all the winning we did in 2000 and 2004.

          • anthonypete300

            What centrist republicans are ever going to vote dem anyway?

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            There are, believe it or not, never-Trumpers. Centrist republicans are few and far between these days, but they can and do sometimes vote democrat. many did during the last election. The key word here is “centrist”. The majority of the nation is close to center. You don’t shore up support by only appealing to the fringe.

          • anthonypete300

            Got it. This is the last I’ll engage you on this as clearly we think differently about it. I did believe what you are saying which is why I voted Hilz in primary. But I now believe that the power of an authentic, charismatic candidate with a passionate base is the way to go, both things Hilary lacked. I believe Bernie would have gotten all Hilary’s votes and most of the Stein 3rd party votes as well as some of the votes of the Obama to Trump voters. That’s a winning formula imo. In my own family there were republicans who liked Trump and Bernie equally and though anecdotal I saw the same pattern many times in tv interviews.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            Well, Hillary did win my nearly three million votes. What you “believe” is an identical talking point every single Berniebro has ever espoused here. “Bernie would have won all the votes” is bullshit. Bernie would have lost the popular vote, most likely, and given this monster an actual mandate.

            That you’re using you voice to attack democrats and not, say, attacking the current power structure really tells me where your head is at. You seem to be saying insanely contradictory things. In one post, you say “what centrist republicans would vote for a democrat?”, then you say “Bernie is a democrat”, now you say Bernie had republican supporters. Don’t you see how these things cannot coexist?

            You fall for the same logical fallacies as all trolling Berniebros. You don’t even think through your own position as you’re all over the board on the same point. A point that, might I ad, had no grounding in fact.

          • anthonypete300

            Are you fucking kidding me? I am not a fucking Bernie Bro!! I’m a fucking centrist democrat who whole heartedly supported Hillary. I don’t like fucking Bernie Bros, I don’t fucking like any purist leftist who voted third party, they fucked our country. Fuck it if you don’t believe me. Clearly, ideas you don’t agree with must be the result of a Bernie Bro troll conspiracy.

            To be clear, I DO NOT think the Bernie platform works in swing districts. I just want to win SOMETHING after 4 in a row special election losses and so I was discussing 2020 on the Osoff thread. I do apologize if that offended you. I don’t know enough about that district to offer up a candidate so I guess I should just fuck off but instead I’ll say that putting up an unattractive putz who didn’t live in the district was probably a bad move.

            So glad you understand “where my head is at” even though you’re completely wrong. Re republican voters, what I meant to say is that I think the number of republicans who voted dem in 2012 and 2016 (approx 6 to 7% and they tended to have higher levels of education) will probably stay the same no matter who the dem candidate is because they dislike Trump. I’m talking about that slice of republicans like those in my family who don’t really care about politics but are culturally republican. I believe Bernie could win them based on purely anecdotal evidence.

            I don’t remember saying Bernie is a democrat. I think I said he is the only one I know of who could, and yeah it’s just my fucking opinion obviously, win as a democrat.

            I think it’s real fucking weird that there’s so much hostility and suspicion of my motives here to even entertaining that idea. Also, you have no fucking idea if I’m “using my voice to attack the current power structure” but good on ya for judging me based on nothing. Your attitude os awesome for dialogue and awesome for winning. Why don’t you get an Ossoff for president campaign started so we can keep winning.

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            “Your attitude os awesome for dialogue and awesome for winning. Why don’t you get an Ossoff for president campaign started so we can keep winning.”

            This is why there’s so much hostility and suspicion – bitching and moaning about the defeat and blaming on your fellow leftys; wednesday morning quarterbacking; did you volunteer at all? did you donate?

            Plus, you’re just wrong.

          • anthonypete300

            Pardon me holier then thou who doesn’t know shit about me. I was called a troll and a Bernie Bro for simply expressing the idea that I believe Bernie *could* *possibly* win in 2020. But obviously I’m the one who is being divisive. Some of you are just as bad as the asshole, purist Bernie bros. in your refusal to see any one’s perspective but your own.

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            no, you did not just express an idea. You beat us over the head with your confident belief that he would win, using sarcasm and insults when anyone tried to disagree with you. And it’s escalating.

            We see your perspective, and you’re wrong.

          • anthonypete300

            nope, I expressed an idea a few times in the most polite way and very soon was told politely to fuck off and then soon and not so politely was accused of being a troll and Bernie Bro. But whatever I’m sure right.

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            if there’s enough people like you the left is GUARANTEED to lose.

            So keep plowing ahead.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            He’s a Brietbart kid.

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            too early for trolls, need more coffee.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            Make me a cup, while your at it. You can add some adult beverage to mine if you don’t mind.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            You expressed the same idea for the last four hours. You even went so far as to spam the same NYTimes analysis.

            You still haven’t made any points other than “democrats are screwed” and we can get our fill of that from 45’s Twitter feed.

            And I just looke at your commenting history. Brietbart misses you.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            You mean YOUR refusal to see anyone’s perspective but your own?

            You kinda waltzed in here, all holier than thou, and telling people to “fuck off’ for just disagreeing with you. Try being less combative and maybe we won’t think you’re a troll.

            Low number of comments with low number of likes across multiple sections is how we learned to spot trolls. That and no avatar at all.

          • anthonypete300

            wow you’re a regular goddamn Sherlock Holmes. I’m prolly gonna kill myself now that I’ve been rejected and my comments haven’t been liked by a community of beautiful, open minded, rational, logical geniuses like you.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            You done ranting? You done digging that hole for yourself yet?

            You’re really losing your shit, Tony. Maybe take breather and come back with some fresh material? Or stick around and maybe we can push you to “unmask” yourself even more.

          • anthonypete300

            Please stop, your brilliant cutting wit is gonna make me cry and wet me pants and then the other Bernie Bros won’t respect me.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            I’m not trying to be “witty”. Just pointing out that you’re losing your shit.

            By all means, continue to embarrass yourself.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            Your backup has arrived.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            Well, if it uses Berniebro troll talking points, then. . .

            You also didn’t have to get so nasty. I mean, “fuck you”? I don’t care, actually, just you’re awfully pissed off that a person on a message board disagrees with you.

            Bernie clearly did not “win” as a democrat. He is not a democrat, has no intention of becoming a democrat, so he cannot possibly win in the future as a democrat. I’m sorry to burst your little bubble, but you’re clearly losing your shit over absolutely nothing.

            I would, of course, vote for John Ossoff for president long before considering throwing away a vote on Bernie Saunders, so that’s a thing you did get right.

            Now, go back to not “engaging” me anymore. Or not. Dealer’s choice, really.

          • anthonypete300

            I didn’t say fuck you, not once. You’re as irrational as any rabid republican Hillary hater, or any fuckface purist piece of shit who voted for Jill Stein. hugs and kisses to you.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            You, umm, did say “fuck you”, you just edited it out of your post.

            So you’re a liar and a cover-up artist too. You and Donnie are like pees in a pod.

          • anthonypete300

            Dear jesus on his throne, you are one paranoid gentleman sir. If I wanted to say fuck you, I simply would have, I mean the stakes are pretty low.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            Uhuh, and it took you two fucking hours to deign a response.

            Whose your candidate, DSFB?

          • anthonypete300

            Darling, if you haven’t noticed I’ve been non stop posting bullshit on this thread for many hours now. I can’t be every wear at dear heart.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            SO you admit you’re trolling.

            Whose your candidate?

          • anthonypete300

            totally, you “unmasked” me hours ago with your brilliant deductive mind.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            #winning.

            Whose your candidate?

          • Three Finger Salute

            I don’t know enough about that district to offer up a candidate so I
            guess I should just fuck off but instead I’ll say that putting up an
            unattractive putz who didn’t live in the district was probably a bad
            move.

            Hey, come on now, he’s not unattractive, or a putz. He’s adorkable. He looks a little like Jimmy Fallon, but without the drunken eyelid droop. 😉

            Seriously though, besides that, “outside the district” was a really slimy talking point by the GOP. He lived something 5 miles outside of the district, because his fiancee is in medical school at Emory. What they’re really saying there is that he should have uprooted the girlfriend (because girls don’t belong in school anyway, they belong at home serving their men), otherwise he’s a “cuck.”

            That whole line of questioning wasn’t just about loyalty to voters and carpetbagging. Behind it was a typically immature dog-whistle attack on his “masculinity” and whether or not his personal life is reflective of the Handmaids Tale “traditional values” that the inbred Covfeferate hicks demand. They were fine with Handel being the Phyllis Schlafly of the race, though, because everybody knows she’ll be a “cuckette” for the GOP old boys’ club. She makes the best sandwiches Koch Brothers’ money can buy.

            Ossoff isn’t a carpetbagger and he’s not an “unattractive putz.” He’s cute, he’s charming, he’s smart, and he’s born and bred (not with his cousins either), from the Peachtree State. (I guess that lack of sibling parents makes him an “elite.”) Handel came from fucking Maryland, and has a vote-punchable mug. The only reason he lost is because he was a Democrat and a nice guy (who didn’t hit back at Handel over the out-of-district issue because that’s just not his style), and Republicans fight dirty. They fucking blamed him for the Scalise shooting. That shit didn’t work in Canada when the cons tried to connect Trudeau to ISIS, but Dixieland is obviously not Canada. Dixieland is mean. Scarface O’Hara is the candidate they want and deserve.

          • anthonypete300

            I think he’s a nice guy who would have been a good legislature and he did really well considering it’s a red district but, to me he looked like a kid in a too big suit. I just don’t think adorable plays in a red district in Georgia. You’re right about everything you said about the carpet bagging shit being slimy as fuck but it simply was to be expected that he would be attacked on it which made him a weaker candidate then he needed to be.

          • Nicholas Jacob Underwood

            True, but the way the electoral college works, Hilary’s three million votes don’t really matter because she failed in the rust belt states, and those guys love Bernie. I truly believe that either dems adopt some of Bernie’s positions, or they will lose the rust belt forever.

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            see, that doesn’t make any damn sense.
            If hillary couldn’t win those states, how could bernie have when he’s further to the left? did these people stay home cause it wasn’t bernie or did they vote republican?

            Also, i’d again like to see any polling data that shows what you’ve asserted. I think it’s just that – an unsupported assertion (i.e. untrue).

          • Nicholas Jacob Underwood

            It is was why he won MI http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35767842

            Hilary had a bad record in those states due to NAFTA, and her supporting the TPP, even if she did eventually change postions, only reminded MI of NAFTA and how it fucked them over (in their opinion, whether or not it is actually true)

          • anthonypete300

            I don’t think they want his positions, maybe some of them, I think they just liked him

          • How the hell can anyone paying any attention like Trump and Bernie equally?
            I call BS on that.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            He also says that centrist republicans never vote for democrats, yet Trump supporters would vote for Saunders?

            Huh?

          • Yeah, that is some pretty ballsy BS.
            I did hear some Bros after the primary whining that they could never vote for Hills, Trump would be so much better!
            And I will state what I did then: Anyone who could vote for Trump was NEVER a Bernie supporter; they were merely a Hillary hater.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            Bingo!

          • anthonypete300

            Because lots of people in this country don’t give a shit about politics and don’t pay close attention to it and when they vote it’s about tribe or about the guy they like better.

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            sooo….how does that get a far left candidate in office?

            Sounds to me like the status quo, a Dem loss except a complete drubbing instead of a close defeat.

          • keinsignal

            Just jumping in here, because I can’t help but respond to this:

            “How the hell can anyone paying any attention like Trump and Bernie equally? I call BS on that.”

            This happens, and in my experience it’s infuriatingly common. I have had any number of people tell me they voted for Trump “but would have liked to have voted for Bernie”. A good chunk of these people also have nice things to say about Ron Paul, whose policies strongly conflict with both! It’s dumbfounding, it’s insane, but it happens because these voters don’t really think about policy, outside of one or two pet issues they barely understand anyway. (My theory is, being white and middle class, they’re not accustomed to *having* to think about policy because the system’s going to accommodate their needs no matter what, or at least that’s the way it’s been in the past.)

            Instead, they just see it all as a big game of “insiders” and “outsiders” and they wanted to vote for an outsider. That’s all the thought they put into it.

            Me, I think the Democratic party has better, smarter policies, and I don’t want them to start rewriting them to appease “centrists” or the far left, or anybody, because that contributes to the overall impression that the party “doesn’t really stand for anything”. But understanding that MOST PEOPLE DO NOT BASE THEIR VOTE ON ANYTHING RATIONAL has got to be a cornerstone of the strategy if we are going to start racking up wins.

          • anthonypete300

            I’ve been trying to say this but you said it better. It’s not a rational choice or a policy choice for most people. It’s a gut choice about who you like and relate to better, who feels authentic to you. Obama had it, Kerry didn’t, Gore didn’t, Hillary didn’t, Bernie does. It’s not a thing to get mad at though I’ve had my share of being furious about it, it’s time to recognize it and use it to our advantage.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            Okay, smart guy, how do we “use” this to our advantage? Put up candidates who have no discernible policies but “feel” authentic? That’s personality politics and that is exactly what gave us Trump.

            You’re advocating the only way forward is to be like the republican party. That’s what you’re saying.

            Now, who is your candidate.

          • Lori

            Good luck with that because in the current media climate all Dems are almost by definition “inauthentic.” Bernie was only treated as “real” because they assumed from the start that he couldn’t win. If he’d been the nominee his authenticity would have been ripped to shreds.

            As for the insiders vs outsiders thing, anyone who looks at the Trump administration and still thinks that auto-voting for the outsider is the way to go is unreachable by any rational method and we have to figure out a way to win without them.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            Exactly!

            The whole assault on experience is coming from the right. The slogan “Washington insider” was created by the right to disparage experiences Democrats. Sadly, it worked. Now we have a guy with NO experience in ANY governance. The voters who think this is a good thing need to have their heads examined.

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            bernie has what obama had? Really? Really ? Maybe for you, but certainly not for the rest of us (or the democractic primary voters).

            Also, Hillary had 3 million more votes! Why you keep ignoring this I don’t know. And she inspired plenty of people, you’re just choosing to ignore it.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            He’s ignoring everything that doesn’t fit in with his flawed narrative.

            I liked Bernie. I voted for Bernie in the primaries. Now? I see him as the egomaniac he is. I sure as shit would not vote for him now and you, I and anyone else with half a brain would never let him anywhere near a general election. How do we lose badly? By putting up an octogenerian with a god complex.

          • Nicholas Jacob Underwood

            Bernie doesn’t matter as much as his polices did, the dems could stand to adopt of them, even if Bernie himself isn’t the solution

          • Lori

            Either people aren’t paying attention and therefore vote for whichever candidate gives them the feels, or it’s the policies that matter and not the candidate, but not both.

          • anthonypete300

            he has simple likeability and comfort in his own skin and authenticity that people relate to and that make them passionate. Hillary doesn’t have it, never had itAnd, yeah, I totally ignore the fact the candidate I voted for and campaigned for won should be the fucking president because she won the majority of the vote. That’s definitely not a thing that I fucking scream at my tv every time a republican says the “American people” chose Trump.

          • Lori

            There’s nothing more authentic than being a Dem of convenience and nothing says “comfortable in his own skin” like the kind of whining Bernie did about the primaries.

            His likability was extremely unlikely to survive being the actual nominee.

          • Lori

            There were never-Trunpers. Most of them lined up behind Trump when he became the nominee.

            Also, since when is Bernie the “centrist” candidate?

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            No clue. If even centrist republicans won’t vote for mainstream democrats, then they sure as hell aren’t going to vote for Bernie Saunders.

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            thank you! this right here is the major obvious flaw to the “shoulda been further left” fairy tale.

          • CripesAmighty

            Leaving aside Bernie as a candidate, continuing to run Marvin Milquetoast candidates who dutifully warble moldy, cream-of-wheat DNC talking points will not yield different results.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            You’re right about that. Someone needs to excite the base, create unity among the party. We need something to vote FOR, not just against. Hellfire and brimstone politics just is not working for us. We’re not as cult-like as the republican base is. We don’t rule by fear and we need candidates that elevate us.

            We haven’t gotten that yet. The last one we had got elected president, twice.

          • Nicholas Jacob Underwood

            Exactly, I actually agree with you on this. Hilary told people why to not vote for trump, but not why to vote for her. That doesn’t work.

          • Snopes Shop

            Al Franken Kamala Harris, no Bernie

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            I would support that!

          • Three Finger Salute

            Neither would win. Al Franken would get tarred as a joke candidate by his association with SNL, and the giant blob of red is never going to vote for an uppity cullerd woman. We can’t rely on just Cambridge and Los Angeles anymore. We have to convert some of those middle-American (and, yes, mostly white and Christian) disaffected factory workers. Running a standup comedian and an Afro-Indian female doesn’t “play in Peoria.”

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            Sad but true. They didn’t even want to elect a white woman.

          • anthonypete300

            I completely agree with you and I love them both.

        • anthonypete300

          False analogy.

          What made Nader so destructive in 2000 (and Bernie in ’16 for that matter) was that they undermined the primary Dem candidate that the party was backing. If Bernie IS the primary candidate that the party backs, he does not siphon votes from the party- he only captures ones that otherwise would’ve been lost.

          • JustDon’tSayCovfefe

            Great! Call Bernie up and ask him to FUCKING JOIN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.
            kthxbye

          • Snopes Shop

            Thnx

          • Lori

            A huge part of the reason Bernie was able to drain voters from the primary candidate was that he was Not Clinton. The Right Wing Noise Machine did a lot of his work for him. He’s never going to run against Clinton again.

            He also benefited from the fact that Hilary was always the presumptive nominee, which means that Bernie never came under the kind of withering attack that the nominee faces. Everyone who talks about how horrible Hillary & her supporters were to Bernie and how they stole the election from him and blah, blah, blah has not been paying enough attention to how campaigns work. Bernie has huge weaknesses as a candidate which would create major problems for him in any race other than 2016. Bernie supporters, at least on the internet, consistently fail to grapple with this, but failing to acknowledge reality doesn’t actually change reality.

            2020 will be its own race, not 2016 redux. I really wish that the BernieBros could get this.

          • anthonypete300

            we haven’t had a negative exchange yet so please understand that I am truly not trying to be combative though obviously I’ve been getting feisty with other people because I feel attacked . Your thinking on this is exactly what I thought through the election and up until very recently and I still think you could be completely right. And I don’t think the DNC was unfair to Bernie in any way. Hillary beat him fair and square and by a good margin and he weakened her. My gut feeling based on nothing but the results of the election and anecdotal evidence is that Bernie with his passionate base and ability to appeal to the kind of republicans in my family might have the best chance of winning. I could be 100% wrong, It’s just my feeling, I got kind of excited about it, because you know, I love my country and want to win, and thought I’d express the thought here. I had no idea it would rub so many people way cause I don’t usually read the comments and wasn’t aware of the strong community feeling here regarding this.

          • Lori

            Either your family members are really atypical Republicans or what they liked about Bernie was that he wasn’t Hillary and they didn’t look too much closer than that. I’ve never seen any evidence that Bernie’s actual policies would get actual Republicans to vote for him in any situation other than “it’s him or the she-devil who wants to turn your children into sex slaves and then turn the entire country over to communists associated with ISIS.”

            It isn’t difficult to get Republicans to say they agree with Democratic policy positions. Research has repeatedly found that, stripped of party affiliation, more people agree with Dem policies. Many Republican policies are so terrible that when you tell people about them, again stripped of party affiliation, they literally refuse to believe anyone would advocate for them. When you show them quotes from Republicans doing exactly that they say the GOPers don’t mean it or it was taken out of context or it’s fake news or some other excuse.

            We do not vote stripped of party affiliation. There is no evidence that useful numbers of Republicans will actually vote for Bernie, whether he runs under the Democratic flag of convenience or in independent mode.

            As for the passion of Bernie’s supporters, it wasn’t enough to win him the Dem nomination when he was running against Hillary, who we’ve repeatedly been told is uninspiring and a terrible candidate. Why in the world should we assume that the passion of the BernieBros makes Bernie the only one who can win the general in 2020? It’s far more likely that if Trump is a weak enough candidate in 2020 for Bernie to defeat him there are other people who can also defeat him. If something happens and Trump regains his 2016 position for 2020 then there’s no good reason to think Bernie can beat him,

            TL;dr: The idea that Bernie is the only one who can win is not well-supported by the facts we actually have.

        • anthonypete300

          Also, not gonna drop it cause I think it’s true and I want to fucking win.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            Win what? A Bernie centric platform will not flip seats our way. It will flip seats in favor of republicans.

            Why is it that you think we ‘lost’ anything here? This was not Ossoff’s to win. Special elections rarely flip unless a scandal is involved. Price was very popular and Handel was endorsed by him. We “lost” nothing.

            This was a republican seat that’s been very conservative since 1979. What, exactly, could a Bernie-centric candidate have done in that district, aside from lose at a greater margin?

          • anthonypete300

            I’m talking about 2020, not the Ossoff race but Ossoff was a shitty candidate.And I don’t think dems running in red states should run on a Bernie platform, quite the opposite.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            I am starting to believe you’re just a typical Berniebros. Nothing outside of your almost fanatical devotion to one man will satisfy you. Bernie Saunders is not the DNC and he is NOT going to help us win in 2020.

            You are, in fact, saying that in order to win, Democrats have to adopt saunders platform. You’re saying this on a thread about the Ossoff defeat. You’ve only been replying TO the Ossoff threads today. You’ve been saying this in all of them.

            So who do you think should have run for GA6? If you can’t name one candidate, then you really have no argument. You’re coming off as a bit of a troll on this matter. I hope that’s not the case, but it kind of seems like it.

          • Nicholas Jacob Underwood

            I think it is more of a, republicans are more sympathetic to the Sanders platform than the usual democratic platform, and thus a sanders platform would be a better at flipping them, that is my experience in this district at least.

          • anthonypete300

            dear god thank you, that’s all I’ve been trying to say and again a full fledged Hillary supporter here

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            Don’t act like you don’t know this guy.

          • Nicholas Jacob Underwood

            I don’t know him, Jack. This right here though, is why young bernie fans don’t really like dems, you aren’t willing to honestly engage with our concerns and what we are saying and always find some way to dismiss it. Please don’t do that, okay?

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            we do listen and we’ve been listening to it since the campaign. We’ve heard all this and very little of it makes sense.

          • Nicholas Jacob Underwood

            It doesn’t make sense to me either, okay? I live in the 6th district and the repubs here do like Bernie and I myself have no fucking clue why. It is just one those weird things to me, but it making no sense doesn’t mean it isn’t true.

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            i’d be interested in some polling data on that.

          • Nicholas Jacob Underwood

            I would like that too, if we knew WHY Bernie of all people is able to appeal to republicans, maybe dems could copy that. Because I am just as confused by that as everyone else, to be honest.

          • anthonypete300

            because he seems authentic

          • anthonypete300

            yes, yes, yes

          • anthonypete300

            also, why don’t they hate you the way they hate me for saying the same thing? I must be a total dick, oh well.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            You are. Also, you haven’t said “the same thing”. You haven’t actually said anything at all.

            But you can start by naming one candidate for anything that you support.

          • anthonypete300

            stop. hurting. my feelings Jack! I’m really falling apart here

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            I’m hurting your feeling by asking you what candidate you support? You feeling must be insanely sensitive. Maybe grow a thicker skin before trying your hand at social media.

          • anthonypete300

            such good advice, your a true sage man. A sleuth and a sage. Tiny bit curious, do u understand sarcasm or is that not part of your programming

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            I understand sarcasm, I also understand just being an asshole. Guess which one you’ve succeeded at.

          • anthonypete300

            please, asshole is so vulgar, I prefer hole of the ass, if you don’t mind

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            Did I hurt your feefees, darling? Awwwww!

          • anthonypete300

            I can’t fool you Jack. I’m cutting my apricot juice with tears as I write.

          • Lori

            As I noted elsewhere, it’s very common for Republicans to approve of Dem polices. It is extremely uncommon for Republicans to vote for Dem policies. This matters quite a lot in elections. Saying this is not a failure to engage with Bernie’s polices or with the supposed Bernie supporting Republicans. It’s sticking to the topic of elections.

          • anthonypete300

            I hated Bernie purists for undermining Hillary but my experience here is really making me understand their point of view a bit more.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            This is your “come to Jesus” moment, huh?

            Riiiiight.

          • Lori

            If you don’t want people to think you’re an ass, don’t act like an ass. This is not about Hillary. We’re talking about Bernie. Back up your idea that Bernie is the only one who can beat Trump in 2020 with something other than anecdotes about your relatives and complaints about other posters.

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            thank you and well said!

          • Nicholas Jacob Underwood

            Like I said, that asshole camp is one of four camps of Bernie supporters, two of which (1st: young woman, young POC and young POC women who don’t share their parents love of Clinton due to things like the crime bill and welfare reform. 2nd: the sort of mild socialist that I explained in the “why southern millennials like socialism post) the dems could try to appeal two, (the third camp are actual hammer and sickle level socialists who saw Bernie as a compromise candidate, and thus can’t be won by dems anyway.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            More than that, Lori, can anyone really believe that ANYONE connected to last year’s shitshow of a presidential campaign will EVER be nominated in the future? Bernie, Hillary, they will just remind voters of all this crap. We know that’s true. To assert otherwise is just an exercise in mental oblivion.

          • Lori

            I think the available evidence says that this is the case, so I agree that we need to leave the toxic crap of 2016 behind and bring in someone who wasn’t part of it.

            Also, any lefty candidate who inspires any substantial portion of his/her base to vote for an authoritarian like Trump by whatever convoluted chain of logic, is not the person the Dems need out front.

          • Nicholas Jacob Underwood

            I made a post about that (white) portion of the bernie base that is awaiting approval, and I will say that for them, it wasn’t about socialism, so much as exerting an identity as a “socialist” due to the great white millennial identity crisis (as I call it), and when their attempt to do that fell apart, they turned to trump because they were never really invested in socialism to begin with, they were just using it to exert an identity.

          • Lori

            I don’t mean this in a nasty way, but I don’t know how else to say it except to be direct–this is the mindset of authoritarians. The Dems cannot and should not be appealing to that.

          • Nicholas Jacob Underwood

            I agree that part of the base can fuck off, but there are three other major parts of the Bernie base that can be appealed too. I posted about them and that post is awaiting approval.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            I could not agree more.

            The taint of past scandal may be what hurt Hillary Clinton the most. He last name was tied to the only impeachment in a generation. It wasn’t fair that she was treated that way, but it may have been a factor.

          • anthonypete300

            Um, who said I don’t want people to think I’m an ass? Tell me wise one, is it a prerequisite here to only state opinion backed up by beyond a reasonable doubt facts? If that’s the standard I’m 100 percent sure you live up to it in every beautiful, insightful and wise post you gift to the world.

          • Nicholas Jacob Underwood

            Seriously, Tony, knock it off, you;re making everybody that likes Bernie even a little bit look bad.

          • anthonypete300

            don’t give a shit :)). Haven’t said shit about Hillary except that fully supported her, started the conversation cordially, was quickly told to take my bernie bs elsewhere. Rebel I am though, staying right here just feels right.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            Tony, it is the standard for any adult conversation not to just spout off bullshit. You’re just spouting off bullshit and backing nothing up. Opinions are fine, sweet cheeks, but don’t act all “horrified” when normal, rational adult people call your bullshit.

            Oh, snookums? Whose your candidate?

          • anthonypete300

            so horrified, have opened veins on left arm, must go to my piano lesson now

          • Lori

            Well, if having people think you’re an ass is your goal SUCCESS!

            You need to provide evidence because you have made a claim–Bernie is the only one who can win in 2020. Back it up or back off.

          • anthonypete300

            Sherlock Holmes at again. My god you are an actual sleuthing genius. Your ability to read through the lying lie words on the page and see the truth is uncanny.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            Keep on keepin’ on. Keep being nasty and personal. It suits you.

            Since I have your attention, who would you have run in the 6th?

          • Nicholas Jacob Underwood

            That is a good question, but I have an older friend who was in the Peachtree city government for a while named Paul Lentz, who is awesome He has a military service record to appeal to that crowd (even though he was just a Navy IT guy back in the 70s, but whatever), has published a few novels and is thus something of a local celebrity for that and his letters to the editor in the local paper, very big on better education and reforming healthcare, the VA in particular (since the VA fucked up and now he has to use a walker to a genetic condition that they almost missed), knows a lot about various science related issues.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            He’s a science fiction writer. That’s a hard sell to religious conservatives.

          • Nicholas Jacob Underwood

            Paul would be a hard sell to them regardless being a, well he is an atheist. But the religious conservatives in this district aren’t a big a deal for 2020 as one would think. The way the churches here have been bleeding off younger members, and the way all the irreligious hipsters have been moving here to start families and start the sort of businesses that appeal to hipsters, things could be more Lentz friendly by then.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            Let me see if I understand you, you’re saying an atheist can win the 6th in four years?

            Did you not see the attack ads that Hendel ran against Ossoff?

            Look, I have lived in the south my entire life. I have been to Atlanta more times than I can count and one thing about the south is that there are more baptist churches than hospitals. In four years, you still can’t get elected dog catcher without going full Jesus at least once. That’s the way it is here and it seems like you’d know that.

          • Nicholas Jacob Underwood

            I am admittedly making an assumption based on a religious demographic shift I see happening in this particular part of the district that I live in, but I admit it might take longer than that. But if not Paul…I would have to suggest Oscar, who is one of the owners of the local Mexican restaurant chain, not an atheist, a local businessman beloved by the community as a whole and a pillar of the local Hispanic community, it would be hard to beat him.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            A business owner with ties to the community would be a good option. I like the way you’re thinking.

          • Nicholas Jacob Underwood

            El Ranchero is the only good place to get Mexican in this district, the only better place is Azul Tequila, and that place was founded by the guy that originally founded El Ranchero before he sold it to Oscar. So yeah, hard to beat Oscar in terms of Hispanics that local white people like.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            I’ll definitely give the restaurant a try next time I’m in town. He sounds very promising and hope you get a chance to vote for him.

          • Nicholas Jacob Underwood

            It is actually a local chain, Oscar is one of a band of El ranchero owners, he owns the one on crosstown. Any one of the owners would be a good choice really. Whoever owns partners pizza, the only local restaurant more beloved is a republican, but I have heard rumors that they sat out the 2016 election due to not liking Trump so maybe look into that.

          • Nicholas Jacob Underwood

            Also, Mariachis is very good too, but nobody knows about it because it is in a TERRIBLE location. It is in this little shopping center on the edge of town, along with a comic shop, an Asian grocery store and a spa and I only know about the place because my mom used to work as the spa’s accountant. It is a hidden gem, but I would not have it’s owner run for office because nobody would care.

          • Nicholas Jacob Underwood

            If you do go to el ranchero, get the chile poplanos, the sauce on them is a national tresure

          • Lori

            Military service doesn’t seem to benefit Dems. It doesn’t hurt, but it doesn’t help either. Dem voters aren’t substantially more likely to vote for a vet than a non-vet and the existence of Dem vets seems to be viscerally offensive to a big chunk of the GOP. They think they own the military and do not like being reminded that it’s possible to serve honorably while liberal.

            That doesn’t mean vets shouldn’t run. Frankly I wish more Dem vets would because over time it might shift the conversation on the military. I just don’t think it does much for us in the short run.

          • anthonypete300

            Again, I know you might dislike me but I have to agree with you. They actually don’t like anyone in the military though they pretend to. Most of them have never served but they like to pretend they’re just as tough and country loving as an actual military member so actual military people make them insecure about their man parts. Also, they’re the first ones to try to take military benefits away, believe me I know.

          • Lori

            Yeah, they like The Military, but they’re not all that fond of actual soldiers. They like fake soldiers, hence their love of John Wayne and the movie American Sniper and such, but they’re not all that fond of actual soldiers. If actual soldiers want to be treated like human beings instead of cogs in the glorious killing machine they need to vote Dem a lot more than they do.

          • anthonypete300

            hey, look at that, we agree. They want to privatize the military and take away every single benefit each and every military member was promised by contract starting with pensions. And yeah, they like tough guy portrayals but actual tough guys who put their life on the line for this country make them feel weak. Then again, too many military members don’t seem to realize this and want to fuck themselves out of their own earned benefits by voting republican.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            Republicans are more sympathetic to the Democratic Socialist party than the mainstream Democratic party?

            What?

          • Nicholas Jacob Underwood

            I know it sounds insane, but think of it more as “people who feel they have been left behind by the current status que (Regardless of party) and willing to try ANYTHING different to see if it will help them” are more sympathetic to the Democratic Socialist party than the mainstream Democratic party and it starts to make more sense.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            That really does not play out. Republicans, who always vote for lower taxes are more sympathetic to candidates who run on raising taxes?

            I’m not saying you’re wrong, I just don’t understand what you’re saying.

          • Nicholas Jacob Underwood

            The repubs here, some of whom are friends of mine, don’t have faith that the dems would spend that tax money in a way that helps them (yes it is a bit of a racial thing), thus why they are usually against higher taxes

            Bernie somehow, and I myself have no clue why, is able to get the republicans in this district to believe that a government run his way actually would spend their tax money in a way that helps them. Again, I don’t know why, it just is.

          • anthonypete300

            yes, I’ve been trying to say the same thing but keep getting asked to fuck off. Guess you’re just better at expressing it.

          • Lori

            This is a foundational GOP vs Dem issue. Dems on the whole don’t think that taxes have to benefit us specifically to be worthwhile. As the saying goes, taxes are the price we pay for civilization. The GOP starts from the place of “my money” and doesn’t want it spent on anything that doesn’t benefit them or their loved ones pretty directly. When something does benefit them & theirs they want it to get all the monies.

            It’s a difference and they’re obviously entitled to their opinion, but I’m mighty sick of hearing how liberals are the selfish ones.

          • anthonypete300

            he’s talking about working class republicans who vote culturally.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            He can speak for himself, Tony, and he’s doing so with much less animosity than you can muster.

          • anthonypete300

            so sorry dear heart, didn’t mean to speak out of turn and without permission.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            “dear heart?” You tryin’ for those sweet, sweet liberal tears, Brietbart baby?

            Name a candidate.

          • anthonypete300

            calm done my love, I didn’t mean to rile you, please don’t hit me

          • Nicholas Jacob Underwood

            Tony, take a break, eat a snickers or whatever. This isn;t helping win them over, calm down and come back tomorrow .

          • anthonypete300

            don’t give a shit about winning them over at this point, just for funzies now. Also, not sure if you noticed but they’re not rational and so probably not open to another point of view and so Imma kinda guessing not “winnable”. Also, I will not be silenced until I’m banned that is.

          • Lori

            If you don’t want people to think you’re an ass, don’t act like an ass.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            Oh, sweetheart, you could never rile me I’m as calm as a cucumber.

            Oh, my love? Whose your candidate?

            I ask because you have not offered an alternative. If you have an alternative, then offer one. If not, then why are you still here?

          • anthonypete300

            obviously because I love you dear one

          • anthonypete300

            Exactly, these are the republicans in my family. I don’t think most people vote on policy but on who they can relate to, who they like, who feels authentic to them. Clearly, people here find that repugnant but it doesn’t make it less true.

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            it’s repugnant and stupid. you want us to cater to the the stoopid? (That’s assuming the kinds of people you’re talking about compose a sizeable enough population to swing an election, which I seriously doubt).

          • Ossoff was not a shitty candidate.
            So there is that

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            He was actually a very good candidate. He was young, optimistic, energetic, shored up a lot of support and made a go of it.

            I really love how people disregard John Ossoff without being able to offer up one viable candidate who could have done better. For that matter, even a nonviable candidate.

          • When a Democrat loses it is: The DNC did not give enough money!
            or
            They weren’t a good candidate because reasons!
            When a Republican loses it is because “Democrats cheated!” every time.

          • anthonypete300

            I guess that’s why he won.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            I thought you weren’t “engaging” me anymore. Troll much?

          • anthonypete300

            He was not an attractive or charismatic candidate, he had a thin resume and he didn’t live in the district, other then that he was peachy keen.

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

            i love how losing in a deep red state is the fault of “a shitty candidate” or the DNC.

            Never the electorate…never the gerrymandering or hte voter suppression.

            sigh.

          • Snopes Shop

            Not attractive? I beg to differ

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            He is a very pretty man, after all.

          • anthonypete300

            if you say so. Looked like a putz to me in an oversized suit to me.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            Anything besides pointing out you don’t like a candidates appearance, or is that all you’ve got?

            Whose your candidate, smart guy.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            Once more, then, since you are the all-seeing political eye here and no one is allowed to question your authoritah!, tell us, oh mighty one, what candidate YOU would have put up. name one candidate for anything you would put up who is NOT Bernie Saunders.

            Show your work or shut it down.

          • Lori

            If you actually wanted to win you’d presumably be doing something other than relitigating 2016 and hanging your hat on counterfactuals.

            You want to talk about your family members who are so utterly checked out of politics that they had trouble deciding between Trump & Sanders? Well, let me introduce you to people in my social circle who are well-informed, consistent Dem voters who thought half of Bernie’s platform was nuts. Unless you have a really large, really clueless pool of relatives I’m guessing that I know more “Bernie? Nope” Dems than you know “Bernie or Trump? Who Can Chose?” “centrists.”

            Also, centrist =/= people who have no fucking clue what’s going on except that they hate politicians in general and/or Hillary in particular. Centrism is an actual attitude toward policy and Bernie was not the Dem who best expressed that attitude.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            Thank you!

          • anthonypete300

            oops, I take back the words of conciliation I said earlier. Not relitigating 2016, trying to win in 2020. Clearly, you don’t want the gettable votes of my dumb fuck relatives even though they live in states that had been blue but went red in 2016. Makes sense. After all, if someone isn’t exactly like you they take their vote and fuck themselves, right. Def what winning looks like.

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos
          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            THAT is an adorable cat!

            The pillow looks comfy as hell.

          • anthonypete300

            why did you pull your cats teeth? not nice

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            It’s a picture, it’s not really his cat and you clearly have no sense of humor.

            BTW, whose your candidate?

          • anthonypete300

            why is he choking his other cat out and making it fart and then taking pictures? shameful and not nice.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack
          • anthonypete300

            child like is more accurate

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack
          • anthonypete300

            tis me the hole of the ass. wishing you so much love and merriment.

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos
          • anthonypete300

            why are you letting your kitty get obese and drunk Tacos? Very sad and sick!

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos
          • anthonypete300

            you got me, no smart ass reply, some things are sacred

          • TX Dept. of Space Tacos
          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            And the only way to “win” is to be exactly like YOU.

            You’re oozing hypocrisy here, dude.

          • anthonypete300

            I never, ever, ever fucking said that anyone had to be exactly like me or that there was zero possibility that a viable dem candidate could come on the scene. Obama was on the scene 4 years before he ran with that knockout dec speech. I hope that another Obama shows up, I just don’t see one on the horizon, but then that’s my political dumb dumbness showing itself again.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            All you have said is that everyone has to be just like you.
            That is, all you have said that wasn’t whining about so-called mistreatment here.

            Whining about how “unfair” we’re treating you here. Giving no facts to back up your claims, just “feelings”. Verbally abusing people for “daring” not to agree with you.

            You sure you’re not a Donnie voter?

          • anthonypete300

            you got me pegged kid.

          • Lori

            Are you related to thousands of people living in swing districts?If not, their votes are not going to put a Dem in the White House in 2020. I have read a lot of stuff about the current state of the electorate and I have seen zero evidence that your family members are typical of any substantial pool of voters. If you have some evidence that they are, bring it. Otherwise your relatives are no more relevant to this discussion than my boss, who found Bernie’s free college plan appalling.

          • anthonypete300

            I’m related to everyone. We’re all part of the human family Lori.

          • Lori

            Oh, FFS

          • anthonypete300

            je ne comprends pas FFS but I’m sure it’s meaning is beautiful

        • Snopes Shop

          African Americans do not like him and that’s a huge problem

          • Nicholas Jacob Underwood

            Older Afircan Americans don’t, but the younger ones do.

        • But but Jeremy Corbyn won (kinda) and that victory in a whole nother country somehow means something for US politics because…well…um…er…SHILLARY AND THE DNC
          ARE NEOLIBERAL ELITES! Yeah that’s the ticket

      • I would agree if we had proof of that actually happening. But Sanders-backed candidates haven’t had much more success either. Even Dems who follow “proper” procedures (Quist purposely excluded DNC backing and didn’t focus on “identity politics”; Ossoff avoided “complaining about Trump” etc.) still aren’t making much headway.

    • Nicholas Jacob Underwood

      Look I maybe be a Bernie fan, but I did vote Clinton in the general, even though I felt it wouldn’t matter. I apologize for losing my temper last night and I am willing give Dems a chance if you guys are willing to least consider what we socialist types say. Such as this free advice on this district, which I will be moving from soon

      next time you try to take this district, know that the republicans in Peachtree City are weirdly pro-environment due to the town’s famous nature trails, you just have to put it in an America the Beautiful “environmentalism as a patriotic duty” sort of way, and not the usual way democrats put it. Also, when discussing healthcare in this district, one should know that disability rights politics are weirdly racialized here. The state government agencies that provide support to the disabled are mostly staffed by black folks, and a fair number of white disability parents truly believe that said black state employees make it easier for black families with disabilities to get services than white disability families. I don’t know if that opinion is true or not, but it does mean that discussing disability rights stuff has to be done very carefully in this district.

      • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

        “You”? Who is this “you”?

        • Nicholas Jacob Underwood

          Centrist dems, I guess? don’t mean any harm by that word.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            Ah, okay. No harm taken, just wasn’t sure who you were talking about.

            Not a centrist myself, I’m as liberal as they come.

          • Nicholas Jacob Underwood

            Look as a millennial, I can tell you why millennials, especially here in GA (Ted Turner and White Wolf’s playground in the 90s) are so sympathetic to socialism, it is because we raised by an era of american pop culture that was very anti-capitalist, often to the point of portraying socialist and environmentalist TERRORISTS as the heroes, and then upon reaching adulthood, the recession made our college degrees near worthless enough that the only available jobs were flipping burgers, even though our parents had drilled it into our heads that a college degree was how we avoid flipping burgers. basically we millennials feel that american capitalism broke it’s promises to us and that why we want socialism, since we were raised to sympathetic to it in the first place. Given that most Georgians of my generation were latch key kids due to the Atlanta child murders scaring our parents into never letting us outside alone, the pop culture part had a bigger effect on our adult beliefs than is normal and dems need to take that into account.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            I understand that, I just don’t understand how socialist sympathies translate into authoritarian votes. Even as a concept, it seems flawed. Why vote for candidates that are the furthest away from ones political or economic views?

          • Nicholas Jacob Underwood

            I gave you my answer in a post, but it is waiting to be approved by Wonkette.

          • starfanglednut

            I imagine some serious misogyny played a role. Who the fuck is for Bernie, then votes for trump over Hillary?

          • Nicholas Jacob Underwood

            In that particular camp, yes definitively, said camp is made up of the sort of white millennial described in the video “The Fate of The Frog Men” by Shuan and Jen (a pair of lefty youtubers) let me see if I can find a link to it.
            Found it:

            https://youtu.be/a_yfnQPaD_E

            Basically the camp in question are basically a bunch of white millennial men going through an identity crisis and who, after their attempt to use Socialism as an identity fell flat, began to see Donald as a white male fantasy who said they shouldn’t have to be having an ID crisis in the first place.

          • starfanglednut

            That makes a weird, depressing sort of sense. Hard to believe they’re of voting age. It’s the kind of logic I’d expect (and in fact heard a version of) from my landlady’s thirteen year old. He’s a boy though. Misogyny runs deep and starts early. If a woman espoused Bernie’s policies, I doubt these denizens of Reddit would have adopted socialism as an identity.

          • Nicholas Jacob Underwood

            As a white millennial male, I will say that said identity is a painful thing for many reasons, not having a real sense of community, connection to history or visible positive identity does hurt in a deep way, in a way I explained on a leftist reddit thread (they do exist, what do you know HERE: https://www.reddit.com/r/GamerGhazi/comments/6hp3zf/since_i_talk_a_lot_on_here_about_how_a_lot_of/). That doesn’t excuse what these assholes are doing about it, but it doesn’t mean we don’t have to do something.

          • anthonypete300

            Nicely explained. You’re a lovely young and very polite millennial and this crusty old gen xer appreciates hearing your perspective. I want Bernie to run on 2020 cause I think he’ll win and I agree with a lot of his platform even though I’m a terrible sellout centrist democrat. I think we need a pull to the left so the center right in this country will no longer be considered the middle. I also think/hope the country will look a lot more like you in 20 years when the old boomers finally take their leave.

          • Nicholas Jacob Underwood

            Thank you.

      • anthonypete300

        Hillary supporter from the beginning here who now feels Bernie probably has the best chance to win in 2020. The expression of that idea here has been met with accusations of Bernie brodom and trolling so I’m thinking maybe, just maybe you losing your temper last night was justified, just a guess.

        • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

          No, you’re wrong. You’re asserting, with 100% certainty that Bernie Saunders has the “best chance” to win in an election that’s over three years away.

          You have no idea what the field will look like. No idea who the candidates will be, no idea if Saunders will even be alive then. You’re stating an empirical based on “feelings” and berating anyone for calling you on it.

          Your not discussing anything, you’re just assaulting everyone with your nonsense opinion. It is JUST an opinion.

          • Nicholas Jacob Underwood

            I doubt will alive then myself, but we can still borrow elements of his platform, I posted my take on why millennial like socialism below, and will gladly post some of my sources on that if asked.

          • Three Finger Salute

            Just don’t say “socialism.” I know we keep using that word without really knowing what it means, but the opposition has enough footage of riots in Venezuela and can google quotes from Chairman Mao to destroy any candidate who refuses to denounce the term. Kind of like how when Jimmy Kimmel interviewed people on the street and asked them about Obamacare, everyone said they hated it. But when he asked them about individual aspects of Obamacare, people thought it was a great idea. Language matters; read McLuhan and Chomsky for why. “Socialism” is going to be forever tarred by association with the Soviet Union.

            That we have a president who is actually a Muscovian Candidate notwithstanding, at least he never said he was a “socialist.” Also, Russia isn’t a communist country anymore. Trump would have lost if he said he liked the healthcare policy in Canada, because for all intents and purposes, in the deluded minds of your average low-info voter, Canada is a communist country.

          • anthonypete300

            I’ve said it was my opinion, based on my strong feels, and purely anecdotal evidence about 100 times but as usual you see what you want to see. And jesus man if you consider that an “assault” you might, maybe, just a possibility now, have some sort of problem that might benefit from some alcohol and a good talksy with a friend.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            Yet you will not “listen” to anyone who does not agree with your opinion.

            As for my “problems”, you don’t know the half of that, Keep being personal, though, it suits you.

            Since I have your attention, I will ask once more, who would you have put up in the 6th?

            You’re not a political “genius” if you can’t name a candidate.

          • anthonypete300

            You definitely weren’t personal with me, you were the kindest, most cordial gentleman ever from the get go. I’m very sad you have seen through my effort to portray myself as a political genius because in stating that my feeling was that Bernie could be a winner in 2020 I was definitely meaning to say that I, Anthony Pete, am indeed a political genius. You’ve revealed my rotten core yet again. so much shame here it hurts.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            Name a candidate.

          • Lori

            The problem is that your strong feels and about $2 will get you a cup of coffee, but you’re acting like they actually mean something.

          • anthonypete300

            ouch, withering, you sure put me my place

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            Whose your candidate?

        • Snopes Shop

          I wouldn’t vote for him.

          • anthonypete300

            over Trump? that’s cool

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            Snopes means in the primary obviously.

            Whose your candidate?

        • Three Finger Salute

          Why the hell would Bernie even run in 2020? He’s 75 already. By the time he takes office he’ll be 80! What’s the point in a candidate running if he’s probably going to die of old age a year into office? No, we need another Obama, not necessarily “an Obama” but much younger candidates. Maybe not Ossoff young or even Macron young (he’s 40) but right around that mid 40s to early-mid 50s sweet spot of Obama and Trudeau. Obama was 47 when elected; Trudeau 45. Obama is a late boomer; Trudeau is the first Gen-X PM. We’re “just not ready” for a millennial/Gen-Y (’80-’84 if we’re talking next election), at least not yet.

          Hillary is about Trump’s age, I think maybe a year or two younger. But even I thought she was too old, and I voted for her because the alternative was over-9000x worse. There’s a reason why the retirement age for Social Security is set at 67. I have no problem with the olds handing down wisdom in, say, books or speaking engagements or casual chats at the cafe, but not in a maximum-stress job like politics or the courts.

          “A” Sanders, or “a” Corbyn, about 30-40 years younger, maybe, could win. But only if he/she (I’m still thinking it’ll have to be a he — the usual formula of white, straight, married, WASP “he” — since demographic precedents don’t set well in what is still a very conservative country at its core) doesn’t utter the dirty words of “socialist” or even “progressive,” but manages somehow to rebrand progressive policies in an American-friendly lexicon. You have to appeal to the collective shared mythology and avoid certain epithets that will never be “reclaimed,” otherwise you’re going to get tarred and feathered by associations with Stalin and Castro.

          Invoking Jesus one way or another usually works. Sorry to our secularists and non-Christians (I’m one of them) but that’s just the way you win elections in a country obsessed with God, guns and gays. The Democrats have to get religion (or at least pretend they have it) — and ditch sex — if they want to appeal to the hayseeds in that gigantic red blob spanning from Dixieland to Montana to the Southwest (which we need to, because we can’t rely solely on New England, New York and California). The candidate we run needs to be spotless.

          • Lori

            Invoking Jesus does not work for Dems. It’s considered a put-on and it makes the RWNJs hate us even more. Because they “know” that liberals aren’t Christians and they hate religion and God and that the GOP is God’s Own Party. Hillary is a life-long Christian. Trump is the most godless asshole we’ve ever had run for president. Please to note who is currently residing at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

            We can’t “ditch sex” either since allowing people to make their own damn choices about their own bodies and who they love are core values. Ditching them would just play into the idea that Dems don’t stand for anything. We need to be who we are, and get our people to the polls.

          • anthonypete300

            It’s truly weird how many things I agree with you about, honestly, not being snarky. We just see different solutions.

    • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

      What is with this sudden “generational” generalization? I’m a gen xer and I have no damned clue what or how gen xers think. Just because someone IS a millennial doesn’t make them an authority on ALL millennials. Sure, there is a lot of shared culture but not absolute overlap.

      • Natalie

        You know I wondered that myself, especially since I looked up to see where I fell in the designated category.
        “Gen X, is the demographic cohort following the baby boomers. There are no precise dates for when this cohort starts or ends; demographers and researchers typically use starting birth years ranging from the early-to-mid 1960s and ending birth years ranging from the late 1970s to early 1980s. Generation X is a relatively smaller demographic cohort sandwiched between two larger demographic cohorts, the baby boomers and the millennials.” (Wikipedia Gen X entry)
        Hmm, no precise dates, then how can you predict behavior based on an artificial definition?
        I have yet to meet people of the same age who think the same, let alone are some kind of hive mind. The mean jerks who insult the millennials The millennials are all… (fill in the insult) reminds me of all the nasty oldsters who liked to bitch and never bothered to actually get to know a younger person.

  • miss_grundy

    You can protest all you want in the streets but if you don’t vote, it’s nothing. People need to get their asses out and vote.

    • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

      Well, people did get out and vote. More votes went Democratic than in 2016. This cannot be blamed on apathetic voters.

    • And protest.

      • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

        And march.

        • Blackest Noobs

          and resist.

          • Blackest Noobs

            and persist.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            And donate.

    • I’ve gotten the sense that the difference between the voters in the parties goes like this:

      Republican voter; My preferred candidate didn’t win the nomination. Oh well. I’ll support the nominee because he’s still better than the opposition.

      Democratic voter: My preferred candidate didn’t win the nomination. UNFAIR! The system is rigged! Screw it, I’m not going to bother voting.

  • IdiokraticDrumpfenResistance
  • Gorillionaire

    Gerrymandering, voter suppression, and tally tricks win elections for Republicans.

  • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

    You know what’s an actual tragedy right here? I always, without fail, see the absolute worst case scenario. I sub my toe? I immediately think “they’re going to cut off my foot”. However, in this case, I’m the one reassuring other people that their doom and gloom predictions are unfounded.

    Yes, for now, the guy with severe PTSD, panic disorder, chronic depression is the rational one. Not used to that at all.

    • JustDon’tSayCovfefe

      Can I buy you a beer?

      • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

        You can buy me a white russian.

        • Why a white Russian? Why not a black Russian? Or a red one?
          Drinkist.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            I dunno, like the half and half better. Not really a sugary guy. Black Russians are too sweet.

          • They sure are. Wink win nudge nudge

          • Three Finger Salute

            What about orange Russians? They tend to be bitter.

          • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

            I like the way you think there!

        • JustDon’tSayCovfefe

          Dude!

    • Blackest Noobs

      it’s cool ese…some of us been there and then some. i figured if i could make it through after being shot four times in the chest from a Kalashnikov(though at the time i was ooooooh i am so dead dead dead)…everything else is cake ( even if it’s a difficult situation)…my motto since then was expect the worst, hope for the best.

      it served me well in the desert, it serves me well now.

      • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

        Couldn’t agree more. That’s what we all do, that’s how we all survive. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

        • Rosacaustin

          my classmate’s half-sister makes $72 every hour on the internet. She has been without a job for eight months but last month her payment was $16159 just working on the internet for a few hours.Here’s the site to read more……++++++++++++++++++++
          ➜➜➜http://www.GlobalTopJobsOnlineNiceGoto/Wage/Home….
          ✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹::::ar260

  • OddMan

    As often as I have said we are fucked, we can do something.
    Number one, VOTE! Become active.
    And today how about calling a senator or their health care aid and bitch.
    Phone numbers.
    Find your Senator at:
    https://www.senate.gov/senators/contact/
    And if you want to really make a difference call the individual health staff for your Senator:
    http://congressional-staff.insidegov.com/d/a/Senate

  • eyelashviper

    Take a few minutes to watch Greg Palast on Joy Reid, where he discusses voting suppression in district 6, and the lack of paper ballots. It is appalling, and we can all be sure that this has been a factor in Gopers winning everywhere, and it will continue.

    http://www.gregpalast.com/palast-msnbc-joy-voter-suppression-accusations-gop-persist/

    • Three Finger Salute

      Nothing will be done about it. One of Putin’s predecessors famously said “the only thing that matters is who counts the votes.” And we know Trumpovich’s slogan for his lame ripoff of Monopoly: “It’s not whether you win or lose; it’s whether you WIN.” Winning is the only thing that matters. They don’t care if they cheat.

  • Maclare🍩

    I am indeed cheering the fuck up!
    Have no idea why, but I’m gonna roll with it.

  • Iron Monkey

    I rang doorbells and made call through my local union’s active ballot campaign in 2016 and will do the same next year. I think we could have done a lot more–and thought so at the time–and it isn’t too early to start organizing that effort. We will never know if more grassroots level work–union members, retirees, students, etc. could have won Michigan but I don’t want to be asking the same question after the election in 2018–I am too fucking old for that shit.

    • This.
      Elections are not won, yet, on the internet. People discount yard signs, they should not.
      Elections are still won by day to day slugging it out in the trenches; for whatever reason, OUR base needs to be constantly touched and reassured. The Republicans don’t bother because they have a core of loyal voters; all they need to do is discourage us from voting.

      • Three Finger Salute

        Yard signs aren’t a good idea anymore in this extremely polarized climate. Neither are flags or other political paraphernalia. People have had their homes vandalized — and worse — for publicly supporting the “wrong” candidate or flying the “wrong” flag (i.e. the rainbow or trans one) in the “wrong” area. It’s a personal safety issue for Americans nowadays. It shouldn’t be, but it is.

        I personally witnessed a road rage (parked rage?) incident in a parking lot at the doctor’s office, involving a very loud, in-your-face Trump supporter who was barking at a nurse just because she had an Obama ’08 sticker on her car. It wasn’t even 2008 anymore, and the sticker (like any chance of Obama overcoming the obstructionists) was faded, but you could still see the colors in the little O logo with the now pink stripes instead of red. (Actually, I thought the pastel blue and pink was kind of cute.)

        My mother said to me, on our way home after the police (who someone else had apparently called, I didn’t dare) had cleared the scene and gotten the man to calm down (they didn’t arrest him): “boy, we’ve come a long way since the days where anyone could walk down the street wearing a button that said ‘I Like Ike’.”

        People are crazy. It’s inadvisable these days (especially now that we live in Putin’s USSA and you must clap loudly for Comrade Trumpovich or else) to advertise openly who you’re supporting as a candidate or even your stance on a controversial issue. Auto glass companies have probably made a mint off drivers who dared put a sticker in their back window that says, “I Stand With Planned Parenthood”.

        • Tiffany de Houston

          I agree. A friend had a Hillary yard sign here in deep red Texas and their lawn and two vehicles were vandalizedone weekend while they were out of town.

  • SeeTrain65

    Yes, getting close in a lot of races is very promising. But the pessimist in me is still pretty unhappy.

    Moral victories become tiresome time after weary time, especially when the team that’s winning is chock full of with cheats, scofflaws and liars. Patience wears razor thin at times, but I’ll try to keep a positive attitude.

    • Cogswell – in a mirror darkly

      As long as things remain the same, Democrats will never win again here in Wisconsin where you only need 48% the vote to win, and every other state that has been gerrymandered as badly as it is here.

      And I had always thought that gerrymandering was illegal. I suppose I was mistaken.

      • Three Finger Salute

        On behalf of the state of Massachusetts, I would like to apologize to the rest of the country for Elbridge Gerry. What a slimy lizard.

      • The Supreme Court is looking at Wisconsin. Keep the faith!

  • Lyly Sirivong

    Disappointing and yet encouraging. Keep it up, guys.

    • SeeTrain65

      I’m serious here … you are an absolute ray of sunshine, Lily. Just what we need now.

      • Lyly Sirivong

        I’m watching from the outside, and that’s all I can offer you guys. I do hope things will get better in a couple of years for you all.

  • Rachel Book Harlot

    I find the fact that Ossoff put up such a great fight despite knowing the odds were against him to be truly inspirational.

  • House0fTheBlueLights

    According to my FB page today, Bernie Would Have Won™

    • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

      scrolll down

      • House0fTheBlueLights

        kill me

        • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

          no
          ; )

      • Pre-Existing Condition Jack

        It’s stupidity all the way down.

  • DoILookAmused2u? Résistance☨
  • DensityDestiny

    Still feeling low about this, but thanks for the pep talk anyway Dok. The problem with the healthcare plan is it’s got a long fuse, long enough I fear that Republicans will get all the credit for following through on campaign promises and none of the shrapnel when the thing blows up.

    But it’s a beautiful day here and I’mma wash my car and listen to Jim Croce. That’s a man who understood working class blues.

  • Zyxomma

    I attended Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert’s Rally to Restore Sanity and/or Fear. Sure, some of my friends were going, and after it was over we all had a little party. But the reason I went was because I knew KIDS of voting age from all over the country would be in attendance. I volunteered at the event (I still have the tee shirt and towel if anyone wants them; I don’t wear tee shirts and the towel is tiny) specifically so I could TALK with these potential young voters. I spoke to them about our civic duty, and how important the 2010 midterms would be to the Obama/Democratic agenda. They all swore up and down that they intended to vote, or at least promised to register. You all know what happened: they lied to me. Not all of them, of course, but enough of them to lose Congress.

    We have to get Democrats and Independents to VOTE. For Democrats. In every election, every single year. Next week my sisters will call me on my birthday. I still have a hard time speaking with younger sister because she lives in PA and didn’t vote in 2016. When I asked her why, she said, “I couldn’t vote for a murderer.” The Russians, Republicans, and trolls got to her, and she’s not stupid.

    • Beaufighter

      Same here. Apparently they actually need to have someone take away their medical choices, torpedo their economy, and force them to pick up cans along the highway for healthcare.

      • Zyxomma

        Unfortunately, if/when that happens, many of us will be stuck with the outcome.

    • Odd Jørgensen

      “I couldn’t vote for a murderer.”

      I can`t even, for real this time.
      Are you sure about the stupid part?

      • Zyxomma

        She’s a DC (doctor of chiropractic) and very good at it, she did really well in school (admittedly, that was long ago; she’s five years younger). She lives in Philadelphia, so maybe her vote wouldn’t have made a difference. Unfortunately, she’s surrounded by stupid people, and who knows who her FB friends are. Gullible. As is, apparently, a huge segment of the electorate.

  • Erala Contratista

    This sounds like gulls fighting over a squashed, grease stained, empty Booger King bag in a hot parking lot.

  • Vagenda of Rebel Scum

    If you were a sportsball team and the team that was in the basement last few seasons suddenly started coming within a goal or two of beating you in the opening games of the new season, you wouldn’t be gloating- you’d be seriously worrying about how to improve your game ( or in Republican terms, more creative ways to cheat). Republican celebrations are premature.

    • starfanglednut

      That’s a problem though. They’re *very* good at cheating. These fuckers fight dirty. It’s one of the main differences between the two parties. That’s how they’ve gotten where they are. That, and appealing to racism, etc.

      But Dok’s article has given me a little hope. Thanks, Dok!

  • Three Finger Salute

    You know what, I don’t even care about the bitch anymore. She’s a hard-hearted old crone who doesn’t represent the future. I’m more interested in The One Who Got Away’s plans. Is Jon Trudeau/Jefferson Smith going to run in 2018, or is he done with politics altogether, because it’s gotten so nasty with the nutjob media and Dixie diehards flinging swill at him and his missus-to-be? Please tell me we’ll see more of this guy and that he’s not a one-hit wonder who only reached 2 on the Billboard Country Charts.

    • Debbie the Unpaid Protester

      I very much hope we haven’t seen the last of him, too!

  • Biel_ze_Bubba

    There’s a core of brain-dead conservative voters, who’d check off Osama Bin Laden, Joe Stalin, Satan, or Charles Manson, so long as there was an “R” next to the name. The only way to win in districts full of these numbskulls is to register, register, and register new voters, and then get them off of their asses on election day.
    Hopefully, anybody who thought “why bother” is now thinking that yeah, maybe it IS worth a shot in 2018.

  • whitroth

    I still want to have the voting machines examined by an expert, like, say, Prof. Avi Rubin of Johns Hopkins, who led the investigation the first time ’round.

    • BadKitty904

      Like the Republican Congress is ever going to allow said voting machines to be vetted?

      • ANNG14

        Paper ballots needed with a chain of custody and same day voter registration.

    • Beaufighter

      Gonna have to win House, Senate and POTUS to make anything like that happen.

  • When the former Republican Secretary of State, who refused to update GA voting machines to something less vulnerable and with a paper trail, wins an election that is no surprise. The real surprise is that they chose only a modest 6% margin instead of the usual 22%.

  • phoenix00

    Gotta look on the bright side, right? This is a good take.

    But yeah, noses to the grindstone DNC, the 2018 midterms will be here before you know it.

  • Rosacaustin

    my classmate’s half-sister makes $72 every hour on the internet. She has been without a job for eight months but last month her payment was $16159 just working on the internet for a few hours.Here’s the site to read more……++++++++++++++++++++
    ➜➜➜http://www.GlobalTopJobsOnlineNiceGoto/Wage/Home….
    ✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹✹::::ar260.

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