In a saner world facts might matter

The joke around the Wonkette Sekrit Chatcave has been that we need to be ready to write up whatever latest Trump idiocy the Washington Post or New York Times publishes in the evening, usually while we’re watching Rachel Maddow (a certified Friend of Wonkette who has acknowledged we are The Best). Thursday evening, the Maddow Show went one better, actually breaking a big story thanks to a leak from someone in government who handed MSNBC a study from the Department of Homeland Security’s Office of Intelligence and Analysis (I&A) indicating the rationale for the Trump Administration’s travel ban is, as Maddow put it, bullpucky. The Trumpers insist we need to ban travel from seven Muslim-majority countries for three months while we figure out some “extreme vetting” measures that’ll ensure no terrorists or potential terrorists will enter the country. The leaked DHS report pretty much blows that rationale out of the water, Maddow says, since it found over half of the foreign-born people who became terrorists after entering the USA actually became radicalized years after arriving here — making any vetting that depends on asking immigrants how much they love America largely useless. Here’s the segment from Thursday’s Maddow Show:

Maddow acknowledges she’s no Woodstein and Bernward — her show didn’t get the document by doing any investigative work; it was dropped into their laps by a source who wanted this to get publicized. (We deeply appreciate how Trump’s terrible policies have led government agencies to become leakier than a refugee raft.) And the document is a doozy; the I&A analysis is unclassified but marked “For Official Use Only,” with a disclaimer indicating it shouldn’t be made public. The analysis is based on publicly available information from academic and government sources, and covers people who were “indicted or killed” between the start of the Syrian civil war and December 2016. Notably, the report was coordinated with other government agencies, including Customs and Border Patrol (CBP), the State Department, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), the National Counter-Terrorism Center (NCTC), and U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS), so this isn’t exactly a rogue DHS report.

Not unlike that other DHS report that was leaked a week ago to the Associated Press, which found country of origin was a lousy indicator of whether someone is likely to be a terrorist, this new report seriously undermines the rationale for the travel ban: What good is “extreme vetting” going to be if most of the American-based extremists who’ve tried to commit terrorism here or traveled to the Middle East to join ISIS actually became radicalized long after they arrived here?

So if we’re going to be screening out potential terrorists, we’ll need to be able to predict the behavior of people an average of 13 years into the future. That doesn’t seem like a really great motivation for keeping students and business travelers from seven countries from coming here, frankly. And of those who later became radicalized, their parents tended not to be radical at all, and were probably just as puzzled as anyone about how their precious kid turned into a terrorist. Oh, hey, here’s another finding that may be useful in talking about how we actually can stop people from becoming radicalized:

Hmmm… so most of the homegrown terrorists, just like the foreign ones, were at least in part motivated by a sense that the USA discriminates against Muslims or is actually at war with Islam? Guess we need to discriminate a hell of a lot more against Muslims, then, just to show ’em who’s boss. That oughta learn us!

But there is actually something we could be doing more of that might actually be of some value in reducing homegrown terrorism. Instead of giving young people reasons to become terrorists, the government could work with Muslim communities to help prevent radicalization by helping young people integrate into mainstream American life, through Countering Violent Extremism programs of the sort that already exist (we could also make sure such programs don’t exclusively target Muslims, seeing as how we have plenty of domestic terrorists of the neo-Nazi and Sovereign Citizen variety).

The report also includes a couple of charts which help visualize the time lag between Coming to America and getting radicalized, which, again, would make “extreme vetting” of dubious value:

(Thanks a heck of a lot for not putting this in a pdf format, Maddow Show)
No wonder someone felt the need to leak this thing. It largely suggest that if we want to Do Something About Terrorists, a ban on travel isn’t going to help a hell of a lot, and may actually make us less safe thanks to the whole perception that America really is at war with Islam, which is why we’ve wondered whether Donald Trump is a secret ISIS operative.

If facts and data actually mattered, Rachel Maddow might be right when she says this report may very well sink the Trump travel ban. Trump being Trump, however, we’re more worried he’ll look at the DHS findings and decide that since we can’t predict radicalization when people enter the country, the safest move will be a ban on immigration by any foreigners with minor children.

[Rachel Maddow Show / MSNBC]

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  • exinkwretch

    The ban is based on fear, ignorance, racism and religious bigotry. The DHS report doesn’t change that; it just highlights the real reasons for it.

  • doktorzoom
  • Nounverb911

    So, everyone loves the USofA until they get here and realize that everyone here hates them because they got here after them?

    • It’s the mysterious perpetual bigotry machine!

    • Sardonicuss

      It’s the toddlers theory of immigration policy:
      I got mine..mine….mine! None for you!

  • Trump’s “VOICE” program will be his eomotional counter to the data found in the study.

    Say, you know who else had a similar plan to list crimes commited by certain ethnic groups?

    HINT: the answer is in the linky

    • Nounverb911

      J Edgar?

      • oooh, so close!

      • azeyote

        cross dressing fashion crimes?

    • SnarkON


    • Undocumented Skwerl!

      Jeff Sessions?

    • PubOption


    • ariel_gee_398

      Is someone keeping track of all the crimes committed by Trump supporters? I feel like we could fill quite a few volumes with his Cabinet alone.

    • Villago Delenda Est

      The comments are like the IMAX.

  • alwayspunkindrublic

    Science fact: No white immigrant or their offspring has ever committed a crime after coming to this country.

    • Undocumented Skwerl!

      I’ve seen no white immigrants on V.O.I.C.E. website.

    • Sardonicuss

      Except for those Belgium bastards!

      • Villago Delenda Est

        Miserable, fat Belgian bastards!

        • Msgr_MΩment


          • Crank Tango

            Waloon libel!

    • ariel_gee_398

      That’s because when a white person comes to America, it’s not immigration, it’s more like repatriation to God’s Country.

      • alwayspunkindrublic

        How are smelly Norwegians and their rotten fish supposed to Make America Great Again?

        • ariel_gee_398

          Most of them carry genes for blonde hair.

          • eggsacklywright

            And they bring lingonberries!

  • Sardonicuss

    I had a pretty heated argument with someone a couple of weeks ago where I pointed out the usual fallacy’s involved:
    85% of the refugees were women and children, average vetting process takes two years, none of the terrorists being from the designated countries ect…
    The person just didn’t care. First they questioned where I got my numbers, when I replied that the information was hidden on Google Search, they pivoted to “So, you think you know more about it than Trump!”
    To which I replied “Apparently….Fuck Yeah I do?!”

    • Villago Delenda Est

      I would have pointed at the sidewalk and said “This sidewalk knows more than Trump.”

      • LucindathePook

        Was it the same sidewalk that attacked George Zimmerman?

        • eggsacklywright

          We must address the international sidewalk gap.

  • SnarkON

    All this document proves is that we need to round up and deport every single brown-skinned man in America because they may someday become a terrorist.

    • Groundloop

      And ban white folks from converting to Islam, also too.

      • Biff52

        ♫♪♫imagine no religion…♪♫♪

    • snark-lurker

      there will be many who agree with that (and fuck no not me–i like living in a colorful world)

      • SnarkON

        It’s exactly what the wingnuts are going to argue.

  • Nounverb911
    • Villago Delenda Est

      Donald is determined to break the deserting coward’s recruitment records for Al Qaeda.

  • elviouslyqueer

    Trump issues EO to defund DHS in 3…2…1…

    • Nounverb911

      And the savings might pay for the anchor on the USS Gerry Ford….

  • Nounverb911
  • Mavenmaven

    It isn’t really about combating terrorism, it is about feeding into paranoid uneducated assumptions of who is a “terrorist”.
    To me, Trump and his supporters sound like the olds afraid of “robots” in that SNL insurance commercial parody.

  • Cousin Itt de La Résistance

    So, if we want to stop terrorism, what would be the final solution?

  • DahBoner

    I’m working on a invention that will predict if Republicans will do terrible, nasty crimes in the future.

  • Michael R

    ” until we figure out what’s going on ”

  • goonemeritus

    I assume Rachel will be renditioned to Gitmo soon.

  • calliecallie

    I used to teach a policy class one night a semester to a group of engineering students, as a favor to a co-worker. Sound policy is developed in the light of day, based on facts and evidence, and honed with widely sought input from those impacted by it. Even the engineering students got that.

    There are many fun examples of how to undermine policy by questioning or denying data (climate change, gun control), of closed door policies that failed to stand because people didn’t trust them(Hillary’s national health care attempt), or those that failed because impacted people were not consulted (letting air passengers bring their Swiss army knives on board again). The Trump administration could provide enough input for a semester long class in how NOT to develop sound policy. And thank God, because they’re incompetence is all that gives me hope.

    • goonemeritus

      I up-voted you even though I’m an engineer

      • Up In Smoke O’hontas

        I up-voted you even though you’re an engineer

      • EvilHRLady

        Then you should know that engineers suck at policy. Even when it’s explained to them. Over, and over, and over….

        • goonemeritus

          If we were in charge bike lanes would be on heated asphalt and Star Trek would never have been canceled.

          • EvilHRLady

            Way to prove my point! :)

    • Ωbjectifier

      “Even the engineering students got that.”

      O Snap!

  • WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot

    It has never been about the terrorists. It has always been about the fear in the hearts of the “real” Americans who voted for the Russian Puppet. The right uses fear to amass political power and have been stoking it for many, many years. The Puppet successfully engaged the fear by othering Muslims. But he can’t say “Radical Christian terrorist” can he?

  • Vincent Ricola

    Rachel’s been hitting ’em out of the park the past couple weeks. Her A blocks have been great and her scared excitement is comforting to my soul.

    • Cousin Itt de La Résistance

      Obi Don Rather has taught her well.

    • And she has been getting EXCELLENT interview guests

  • Villago Delenda Est

    If you want to “do something about terrorists” you shut down the NRA. It’s that simple.

  • Anna Rompage

    Uh oh, it appears our Vice President used private email for official business when he was Gov…

    Lock him up! Lock him up!

    • elviouslyqueer

      Your move, Jason Chapped Tits.

      Oh, wait.

    • MeerkatsRMammals

      He’s an old man, of course it was AOL…

  • Count Awesome

    Each person who will be vetting potential terrorists will get a government issued Magic 8-Ball.

  • stankbait

    Rachel is hawt! I’ve said it here before, there is nothing hawter than a smart woman.
    Hawt! Hawt! Hawt! And funny. And she was on Desus & Mero! Hawt!

    • Msgr_MΩment

      Hey, we all know she reads this site religiously, but she’s not on the market. You should know that.

      • stankbait

        Also too probably better to watch the weather report before one wastes time praying for rain Msgr. We stand by our informed opinions and soldier on unchanged. You know.

    • MamaBrown

      She is everything. How did we ever live in a time without her?

    • Celtic_Gnome

      To make it even hawter, she’s wearing jeans under the desk.

  • Crystalclear12

    OK, in the past when past when Republicans wanted to undermine someone they called them a Russian commie spy so. . . what do they call them now?

    • Amy!


    • Brad H

      Reporter, so long as they’re not affiliated with Fox/Brietbart/Alex Jones.

    • Nockular cavity

      Educated. Thanks for the inspiration, Pol Pot!

    • Alexander Stallwitz

      Musilim or Musilim sympathizer

  • calliecallie

    OT, but I just saw on Twitter that even though Sessions said he met with the Russian ambassador as a Senator, he expensed his travel for the meeting to the campaign. Hahahaha! He lied again!!! He has to go.

    • Vincent Ricola

      Of course he did. These idiots can’t even do basic treason correctly.

    • Bill D. Burger

      King Yam hears that his Sheriff Sessions lied….and was caught!

      ~clutch the pearls~,scalefit_600_noupscale/576ac0c81500002f001baccf.jpeg

      • calliecallie

        To paraphrase Peter Dinklage: “We’ve had vicious presidents and we’ve had idiot presidents, but l don’t know if we’ve ever been cursed with a vicious idiot for a president.”

    • goonemeritus

      My hope is that Trump will spend the next two years appointing and then reappointing people at the end of which a disgusted electorate hands the Republicans an epic loss in 2018.

    • Bebecca

      I’m surprised that he billed his trip to the campaign even if it was for strictly campaign purposes.

  • snigsy

    How does that old saying go? Something, something, clean up the shit in your own backyard, something, something.

  • Who could possibly have predicted that calling people names for years, telling them they’re terrorists and that their religion is the source of all evil might make someone decide to blow something up? Aside from virtually everyone who thinks about it, that is.

    • MeerkatsRMammals

      I made similar comment on another site & got trolled by RWNJ’s who wanna talk about Muslim human rights abuses :( Trolls seem to be out in force this week.

      • Vincent Ricola

        The RWNJ concern trolling has been taken to a new level during this administration.

      • Up In Smoke O’hontas

        I wonder why….

    • cmd resistor

      I’ve had that theory vaguely for a while but wasn’t really able to articulate it and figured I was just maybe having a libtard delusion. Cases in point — knife guy at Ohio State, Boston Marathon guys, just to name a few.

  • anon_the_great

    Worst scenario is Trump survives the shit storm, wounded and increasingly paranoid.

    • Msgr_MΩment

      Nixon on steroids.
      And adderol.
      And coke.

      • Villago Delenda Est

        Carrie Fisher (who knew about these things) said that coke was it.

    • Bill D. Burger
      • Nockular cavity

        Pinhead libel!!!

    • Paperless Tiger

      I was retarded when I started, sho nuff psychotic by now.

      • eggsacklywright

        “If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about answers.”

    • Rick Hill

      The likely scenario…

  • MynameisBlarney
    • TheAmazingAmateurHousekeeper

      “We’re sorry. You can’t access this item because it is in violation of our Terms of Service.”

  • Villago Delenda Est

    Site content note: I’ve got a little green padlock next to my URL box, so SSL must have propagated overnight and is working. YAY!

    • Crank Tango

      Does that start with a sore throat? Because I think I’m getting it!

    • eggsacklywright

      I have one, too! Is it like a prize? C’mon, tell me what my prize is!

  • MynameisBlarney
    • Hutch


    • Mr. Blobfish

      Over at “Fox and Fiends”, they determined that Franken’s question was just too hard and confusing for lil’ Jeffy to understand.

      • MynameisBlarney

        God, they’re fucking stupid.

  • Lefty Frizzell

    The 7 countries are pretty dodgy which is why people are leaving them to come to the US. The bad hombres, with the backing of tech savvy ISIS, could no doubt travel to some other country first and come to USA with a false passport.

    Provided vetting is in place, a travel ban cannot be anything other than self-defeating.

    This is nothing more or less than a feeble, ill-intentioned attempt to cash in on the right wing media’s hyping of the possibility that Obama was a muslim/incompetent/hated America/lazy and presided over inadequate vetting.

    There is literally no evidence to support that point of view or Trump’s proposals as a way of addressing it, any more than there was with a ban on travel from Ebola countries.

    It’s all about keeping people in fear, so they won’t notice the tax cuts and deregulation.

    • Carpe Vagenda

      You give them more credit than I do. I just think if you give his base jews and muslims to hurt they don’t give a shit how badly you screw them.

      • sgt. jmk of the résistance

        Yup – as LBJ said (or is said to have said): “If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.”

    • Villago Delenda Est

      Fear is the mind killer; fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.

      • Thaumaturgist

        Second Amendment. Banishes fear from the minds of all patriots.

        • Villago Delenda Est

          I’d argue it intensifies it.

      • Eo Raptor

        Dune, Arrakis…
        The spice must flow!

    • There you go, being all reasonable and thinking things through. Dern liebrul!

    • cmd resistor

      I personally think one reason they aren’t rushing a new travel ban EO (besides not being able to come up with one that will not get struck down) is that they are getting enough fear of illegal immigrant/deporting bad hombre press that it is enough to go around for now. The whole “rounding people up” think keeps the base happy, because Big Bag Prez is “doing something” and “keeping his promise.”

      • Lefty Frizzell

        That so many are pleased with the concept of “rounding people up” is a real source of fear.

  • OrdinaryJoe

    “They all hate us anyhow,
    So let’s drop the big one

    • Villago Delenda Est

      “We’ll try to stay serene and calm
      When Alabama gets the bomb.”

    • Bill D. Burger
    • MamaBrown
      • Helene Logan

        Aw thank you for sharing this. I grew up in a family that played his records constantly. :-)

        • MamaBrown

          are we related? mine did too! My brother still knows “the elements” by heart! and circling back to Rachel Maddow, she referenced the album “The First Family” a few weeks ago and I almost fell off my couch. We played that constantly too. “the rubber swan–is mine” will still convulse my family.

          • Dawn Abraham

            Mama & Helene – us too. Those albums and lyrics just stick. The Mad Show wasn’t too bad either.

        • Zyxomma

          I’m also a huge Tom Lehrer fan who grew up with his music. Pollution and Vatican Rag are classics, and I posted National Brotherhood Week yesterday here at Wonkette.

          • MamaBrown

            omg, how did I miss that? Lena Horne and Sheriff Clark are dancing cheek to cheek! the more things change.

  • Reality Kills

    When one of your closest advisers is an admitted racist anti-semite wife-beater moron that ran a hateful blog for a living, this is the kind of stuff that will come out from them.

  • Latverian Diplomat

    This just in: Rest of world bans US travelers, calling US “a factory for extremism”.

  • Ryan Denniston

    “we’re more worried he’ll look at the DHS
    findings and decide that since we can’t predict radicalization when
    people enter the country, the safest move will be a ban on immigration
    by any foreigners with minor children”

    That implies there is a rational mind at work here. This is about being cruel to an Other, plain as that. What I don’t understand is why he doesn’t go around kicking puppies or something similar. Probably realizes that’s a bridge too far.

    • Zippy W Pinhead

      Probably realizes that’s a bridge too far

      at least for now…

  • Cousin Itt de La Résistance

    OT Donald has mentioned using public-private partnerships to rebuild US infrastructure. Here, in Colorado, that has been done to reconstruct Hwy 36 between Denver and Boulder. “The privatization of U.S. 36 will present a large financial cost to Colorado taxpayers,” maintains Ken Beitel, clean energy analyst and DSI spokesman. “Hundreds of millions of dollars in toll revenues on U.S. 36 will be drained out of Colorado to provide profits for Goldman Sachs and the Australian toll road developer the Plenary Group.”

    As we noted in our 2013 post, Goldman Sachs is officially designated as CDOT’s “financial adviser,” while Plenary Roads Denver has agreed to pay approximately two-thirds of the cost for renovations to both the Boulder Turnpike and Interstate 25 in exchange for collecting all new tolls on U.S. 36 and the existing I-25 express lanes for the length of the contract — fifty years.

    How much y’all wanna bet financing for Trump’s rebuilding comes from Russian investors?

  • Thaumaturgist

    Biased sample. Should have included native born Merkins from all backgrounds who choose to exercise their Second Amendment rights to shoot things up, e. g. schools, work places, bars, etc. Then what would the numbers tell us?

    • Biel_ze_Bubba

      Good thought, but Mexico won’t take ’em.

  • akryan

    You know that the last paragraph describes exactly the argument that they’ll make. No way to be sure that they won’t at some point have a kid that radicalized so we can’t take the chance of letting any of them in at all. for freedom.

    • Rick Hill

      Next stop: Police State.

      • Jack Tenhet

        Next stop? We’re already kinda there, what with ICE becoming more and more present in non-border cities, undermining local police by claiming to be police themselves.

    • Bitter Scribe

      Poisoned Skittles, doncha know.

  • Mr. Blobfish

    Just a minor setback for Trump Tower Mogadishu.

  • MizzMazz

    I mentioned earlier a briefing we got at work a few years ago, that the DHS said they were far more worried about white, right wing homegrown terrorists than they were about anyone coming in. Nobody liked *them apples* because the truth hurts, but now it’s okay to be out in the open about hating anyone who isn’t like you.

    • Yup. My boyfriend is from the Pacific Northwest, where there are A LOT of these groups, and they really really scare him.

      • MizzMazz

        They scare me too. I lived for a short time in Redding, CA, and there were a bunch of those guys, armed (and they let you know it) ignorant (and proud of it) and chock full of jeezuz. I had a Darwin fish on my car, and came out to the parking lot to find it ripped off and stomped to pieces. I guess I was lucky to still have a car.

      • Jack Tenhet

        I lived most of my life in Alabama and there were a LOT of those right-wing terrorist groups pre-9/11. Eric Robert Rudolph was a member of the Army of God, an actual domestic terrorist group that trained a lot in Cullman, AL. He bombed a clinic in Birmingham, killing a police officer, then fled to Georgia where he bombed several gay bars before planting a bomb at the Olympic Park in Atlanta during the Olympics.

        It was very terrifying, to say the least. My wife and I were actually on our way to Olympic park when it happened. If we’d gotten there a few minutes sooner. Of course, when he went on the run in the NC mountains, “good people *eyeroll*” helped him live on the run and rednecks openly praised the terrorist.

        • H0mer0

          didn’t he also kill Versace?

  • Lance Thrustwell

    I like the term “Radicalized”, as in, “I done got Radicalized!” I think it should apply to all dramatic religious or political conversions, for a start. For instance, Michael Savage got radicalized somewhere around 1980.

    Oh wait – is “radical” synonymous with “violent”? My bad.

  • ziggywiggy

    Slightly OT but there’s a fun song called I Love You Rachel Maddow… I agree 100%.

  • WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot

    The root problem with the base of the right? They believe in magic. Say the words and it’s done! Magic! Radical Islamic terrorist…OVER AND DONE…Build a wall…DONE…Travel ban…DONE. And I don’t think it’s going to get any better. We’ll be saying magic words for a while….I mean, I’m already praying for impeachment.

  • Aaron Wise

    Less Maddow, more reality please.

    • Zippy W Pinhead


    • puredog

      Okay, you think Maddow is a hack and is not reality-based. You want to respond to the DHS findings she reported? (I don’t know why I am even inviting this, but empty ad hominem remarks are beneath this august forum, unless we’re making them.)

    • Mike Steele

      You’ll find all the Pravda you need on Faux. See ya!

  • Aaron Wise
    • yyyaz


    • The Wanderer

      That still puts her light-years ahead of Bill O’Reilly, James O’Queef and all the other little Hitlerjugend.

    • Helene Logan

      Uh yeah, she was the only one who got the polls wrong. The only one. Uh huh.
      Of course, this vid is from December post-election. Hindsight is 20/20.
      While I agree that the entire party dropped the ball, this doesn’t prove her being a hack. How many people who decided not to vote or to vote 3rd party did so under the assumption that HRC was a lock? It wasn’t just Maddow that thought things would work out differently.
      Actually, Jimmy & that 8 year old doing color commentary sound more upset that they aren’t on a similar trajectory to RM’s career.

  • (((fka_donnie_d)))

    Why do even the smart people keep thinking any of this has anything whatsoever to do with the facts?

  • Biel_ze_Bubba

    Gee, it’s almost as if the GOP has a stake in continued terrorism and keeping rightwing ‘Merkin morons as scared as possible.

  • cmd resistor

    So today I walked out of work to pick up lunch and was pleasantly surprised to see a nice little peaceful protest of people walking around the courthouse carrying signs against the ban, against the wall, welcoming immigrants, you know, all the libtard commie stuff. This is in a republican county with little libtard pockets — from their FB page and the last protest, I think the Unitarians organized it. Down the block was a small group of people with big fat Trump signs screaming loud enough to be heard a block away. But it was nice. The FB announcement:
    “Protest Rally “No Mass Deportations in the United States!”
    Please join us (and please share this posting with all your Facebook friends and others) for an hour-long Rally protesting the Trump Administration’s apparent plan to begin mass deportation of undocumented individuals and families here in the United States, and in Indian River County. I ask that you bring only “positive” protest signs that express our support of our undocumented friends and neighbors.(and ouir support for immigration in general) — and refrain from personal attacks on President Trump. I feel our message against the inhumanity of these deportations will be better received in this conservative community if we stick to the moral and human issues at hand, and leave personal attacks out of our rally. Here in agricultural Indian River County we have many undocumented and law-abiding migrant labor familiies whom we want to welcome, affirm and protect. Please sperad the word as widely as you can, so that we have a large turnout for this important rally here on the Treasure Coast.”

    • phoenix00

      Refrain from personal attacks on President Trump? Aww come on, live a little!

  • Bebecca

    “the government could work with Muslim communities to help prevent radicalization by helping young people integrate into mainstream American life”
    Sorry no, this wouldn’t be a$$hole enough for the republicans, it would be considered a kindness and they will never agree to that.

  • sosuume

    With the ginormous clusterfuck that Trump and his crack team is creating with U.S. policies, not to mention the travel ban, no one is going to want to visit here anyway. Problem solved.

  • puredog

    “Trump being Trump, however, we’re more worried he’ll look at the DHS findings and decide” TO FIND THE LEAKERS!
    There, FTFY.

  • george gonzalez

    And if Trump really wants to stop the deaths of Americans, cutting ObamaCare isn’t helpful, several real medical statisticians have figured that ObamaCare saves 41,000 or so lives of Real Americans each and every year. So each year there used to be over 1,000 times more Americans killed by Congressional inaction, than due to terrorism. In 2001, it was only ten times as many slaughtered by Congress.

  • cosmiccowgirl

    Yeah, I was thinking the same thing last night listening to the show. If Rachel believes that facts and data and “logical thinking” are going to make a difference to this administration, then she and I have been watching a different movie.

  • ExecutorElassus

    Can we take a moment to note just how creepy and weird it is that this memo refers to US as “the Homeland” (capitalized and everything)? The only people for whom the Americas are a homeland of any kind are the original (ie, Native American) inhabitants, so this usage is, as the kids are saying these days, problematic.

  • Tj McGee Wright

    Great. A whole bunch of flaming-turd rhetoric and a bag full of less than useless policy. All having the grand effect of making us less safe.

    Could Trump & friends be any stupider?!?!

  • AnnieGetYerFun

    This just gives them cause to say that no Muslims should be allowed in, period. Because you never know when one might go crazy.

  • FauxAntocles

    So do Muslim kids go bad at a rate higher than other kids in this country?

  • Celtic_Gnome

    We can assume Trump will “study” this report. It’s got pictures.

  • Mike Steele

    If US was really concerned about yoots going rogue, they’d fully fund Planned Parenthood in red states.

  • Don Gwinn

    If this report becomes a big issue, I predict the response from Trump supporters will be to pivot to demanding that Muslim bans be expanded and made permanent–and claiming that Maddow and other LIBRULS have proven that vetting isn’t enough.

  • phoenix00

    Takeaway: What’s the #1 radicalizing extremist factory? America

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