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jill stein

Since we have been homeless for over 12 hours now — it’s a whole thing, don’t worry about it, WE’LL BE FINE — we have been luxuriating in the front yard of our friend Rene. She has a soft lawn, and a kiddie blowup pool, and liquor, and toy dinosaurs. It is a swell place to be homeless for a day or even more!

Unfortunately, Rene’s house also comes with a neighborhood Jill Stein canvasser. Did we want to take a moment out of our Sunday to listen to his pitch? We SURELY DID! Did we accidentally call Jill Stein “cunty”? Not so much by accident!

Anyway, howdy neighbor, nice to see you! Please, tell us more of this “Green Party” you represent just kidding we are already familiar! (Have you ever been to a Green meeting? We went once; it took three hours just to certify — everything had to be unanimous — the agenda.)

The nice young hippie man started by pointing out that both major parties were the same. We told him we felt exactly the same way in 1996 and 2000, when we voted for Nader and then became immediately — like Jan. 21, 2001 immediately, around about noon, when someone did away with Bill Clinton’s executive order about arsenic in drinking water — very very sorry. Then he gave us a mimeographed paper square explaining all the things Greens are for — clean energy, money out of politics, healthcare as a human right — and they were all things Democrats are for! That is weird, since Democrats are the same as Republicans because Hillary gave speeches to Goldman Sachs and also emails probably.

And that’s when I said Jill Stein could just be a nice old hippie lady and be like “hey, come be hippies with us!” but instead she had to be so cunty and be calling all the time for Hillary to go to jail and what the fuck was that about, and also fuck her. He said we needed at least an option for a third party, didn’t we? No! We didn’t!

“We’re a Hillary family,” I told him, smiling. (I didn’t check with Rene, but she seemed happy to let me do the talk-yelling.) He started on Hillary being a Wall Street wh… “No, we’re an ACTUAL Hillary family! Enthusiastically!”

In that case, he said, we were the first ones he had ever met. Ever. I think that nice young man was a liar. Sadly, he walked away before I could ask him, or laugh at Jill Stein for pandering to anti-vaxxers or never winning elected office higher than Massachusetts dogcatcher or being a generally miserable cunty hag. “I’M GLAD YOU ARE OUT ORGANIZING!” I shouted to his stiffened back as he walked on down the street, and I meant it! I wish there were more details, but he got out of there pretty quick instead of staying and fighting LIKE A MAN. But seriously, fuck Jill Stein, that mendacious nihilist piece of shit.

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  • Lizzietish81

    You were just the first to actually say it to him.

    And Rebecca. She is neither warm nor deep.

    • handyhippie65

      i don’t know, rebecca seems all cute and cuddly to me.

  • anwisok

    I would also too have fled.

  • Joe Beese

    Got to keep that hippie-punching arm in condition!

  • cheetojeebus

    Her edit of that tweet from “no evidence” to “not aware of any evidence” is just fucking craven.

  • Next the local Jehovah’s Witnesses canvassers …

    • House0fTheBlueLights

      My father used to lure them in, and then make them defend their points of view for HOURS. And my father (he used to call himself a Christian Anarchist) could hold forth Like A Boss

    • rebecca

      I love Jehovah’s Witnesses! Unlike everyone else, they don’t *want* me to go to hell!

      • I Only Like Cats

        As a child who grew up in that religion, they have problems in other ways.

        • Lascauxcaveman

          They don’t even celebrate Xmas! Those monsters!

          • I Only Like Cats

            my problem is more, they discourage turning in criminal members and will shame people into staying married even when the marriage is ridiculously unhealthy and one is creepy criminal who shows very little remorse (the whole hypocritical “god’s forgiveness” stuff), and then they act holier-than-thou and self-righteous, claiming to be better than the Josh Duggars of the world, but they’re not.

      • Señor Skwerl King

        Just wait until the IWW discovers your address.

  • cheetojeebus

    Get off my friend’s YARD!!11

  • crunchyknee

    Did he soil his cruelty free under garments?

  • Frank The Rat

    Mimeographed talking points. Almost as forward looking as the GOPAsswipes. OTOH good fumes f

    • The Wanderer

      Oh yes. Liquid-process mimeography. Takes me back, it does.

    • bubbuhh

      Cuz mimeographs R very known to be Green (or wuz that blue?) friendly

      • PubOption

        Mostly purple, if I can remember that far back.

    • memzilla

  • Gayer Than Thou

    By coincidence, the tagline on my Grindr profile is “miserable cunty hag.”

    • House0fTheBlueLights

      Sister/Brother! Mine (on a different site) is “Psycho Hose Beast from Hell”

  • The Wanderer

    “But seriously, fuck Jill Stein, that mendacious nihilist piece of shit.”
    How do you really feel about her, Dear Editrix?

  • Hairstrike Alpha

    Feel glad you just got annoyed by a Jill Stein canvasser….I’ve got Mormons. Yes, Mormons in Oregon- I thought I’d escaped them when I left Utah but nope, there they are in their crisp pressed shirts with their ties and backpacks. Oh you aren’t fooling anyone, guys…your perfectly pressed clothes and bright smiles contrast with door to door salesman who reek of alcohol and desperation. Now piss off…

    • The Wanderer

      I get Mormons, Witnesses, Baptists, and guys hawking Omaha Steaks.

      • cmd

        Ha! At first I read that as Obama Steaks.

        • alwayspunkindrublic

          Same here.

        • folderol

          Are they as good as Trump Steaks™?

          • cmd

            Better — they are free, for takers.

      • SadDemInTex

        What about Trump steaks?

      • I admit a weakness for sweet little old Jehovah’s Witness ladies who knock from time to time. One is terrified of my dogs barking so I will sit on the porch with them, offer them something to drink, lightly gossip about the neighbors, and take a couple of their pamphlets.

      • Longstreet63

        Vacuum cleaners, Cutco knives, and guys giving away free home security systems.
        I buy knives if the salesperson is cute. I let the vac salesmen demo, because I know how the poor bastards get paid, then send them off with a bottle of unwanted booze. I waste the alarm guys’ time before I point out that they have been lying to my face since I opened the door.
        The religious ones have written me off except the JWs, whom I suspect use me as a sort of hazing.

      • Good_Gawd_Yall

        I get xtians of the Kim Davis school – hair down to the butt, fancy blouses over denim skirts, tennis shoes. I’m too polite to be unkind to them so I take their literature and recycle it.

      • HazooToo

        Have you ever tried the steaks? I get their ads by mail, and am occasionally tempted, but have never given in.

        • Good_Gawd_Yall

          My folks used to get them. They’re definitely not bad but I think overpriced. if you want to get fancy steaks in the mail they’re a safe bet. Their hamburgers are good too.

          • HazooToo

            Thank youuuuu, I will keep the next ad I get!

        • The Wanderer

          A friend sent me a gift box from them for Xmas last year, and they were excellent. I reciprocate with English muffins from Wolfermann’s.

          • HazooToo

            I know what my Dad is getting for Christmas nowwwwww!

    • Lizzietish81

      My sister always defended the Mormons (Mission Hill where we lived was founded by them) since they were always polite and went away without having to be threatened.

      • bubbuhh

        She dint know bout how they converted y’all wifout yore permission after they got back to their secret tabernacle, I bet.

      • Lascauxcaveman

        Summertime is Mormon season in my town. I spot them a lot when I’m out on my bicycle, commuting or just riding around. I always give them a friendly wave and holler “Hey, Mormon dudes! Where’s your bikes?”

        But since I live way out in the foothills, I never get anyone at the door.

    • Gayer Than Thou

      There for a while I got a lot of sketchy people “selling magazine subscriptions.”

    • Shan the Libtart

      I just get randos asking for money and cigarettes.

      • Hairstrike Alpha

        randos? I knew Rand Paul was in bad shape financially but I didn’t know he’d go to Kansas of all places to beg for money and cigarettes…poor Ayn Rand!

        • Shan the Libtart

          Oh, boy! If HE ever showed up on my porch I would NOT be nice like I usually am! NOT AT ALL!

      • Invidosa

        They are drawn to me like a damn magnet!! As a person prone to anxiety this has caused some debacles.

    • Sardonicuss

      One day, within and hour, I got little Mexican children selling delicious tamales!….and then Girl Scouts selling cookies!
      It was like having dinner and desert delivered, without even having to order!
      Sorry, just trying to be glass half full these days….

    • DinkyBossetti

      I get a constant stream of people trying to sell me electricity. If I could check a box that said, “Charge me more for electricity, and make sure no one knocks on my door trying to sell me electricity,” I would gladly pay more for electricity.

    • OneYieldRegular

      I have met more than one Mormon missionary who spent his proselytizing stint in San Francisco of all places, and who, instead of going home to Utah, stayed here and moved in with his boyfriend.

      • Hairstrike Alpha

        But enough about Steve Young…

      • Shan the Libtart

        They don’t all go back after the Rumspringa.

    • Logic of Color

      My mom somehow managed to get my oldest kid baptized Mormon and he hasn’t been to church since. He turned 18 and guess what!? Now the missionaries come to our door asking for him! “Hey Jr. someone’s at the door for you!” (giggle snerk)
      I should probably mention they come every few weeks if your name is on the roles and you aren’t “active”. I had my name removed from the roles.

    • Ghenghis McCann

      I was actually thinking that in a parallel universe that nice young hippie boy could be a nice young Mormon missionary. Someone who has the “truth” and wants to share it with everyone, and gets told to piss off.

    • natoslug

      Having four dogs of my own running loose on the property, plus the neighbor’s pit bull and the neighbor’s g-shep all running around cuts down on visitors nicely. The few that make it down the driveway usually give up after they realize they can’t open their doors if they don’t want to be slobbered on. I’ve thought about installing a gate, but my dogs never leave the property, and why bother with the expense if I’ve already accomplished the same thing with barking and drool?

    • Lark_in_the_AM

      I had a first the other day – two young FEMALE missionaries.

      • Querolous

        And one of them got you into the missionary position while the other one stole your platinum cufflinks?

      • Invidosa

        I got a pair in fucking target for Judas’s sake! They wanted to pray on me in the fucking magazine aisle!

    • Invidosa

      Sweet mother! I feel your pain! Our college campus is literally INFESTED!! thing is, I’m rather fascinated by them, best way to run off a Mormon? Ask them about their magic underwear in a mischievous voice, they hate that!!

  • bubbuhh

    Wow. Did not no that I could B a Green Party. Am almost alwayz unanimous.

    • House0fTheBlueLights

      It’s just gas.

  • stankbait

    I knew an old man who would take their literature and ask them to wait outside the door for a minute. He would go to the bathroom of his house and use the leaflets for TP. He would then return to the doorway and state he was not interested in continuing the discussion and return the papers to them.

    • Lascauxcaveman

      Sounds like the old guy needs a hobby.

  • alwayspunkindrublic

    I think that Green Party dude was the one who showed up later on Wonkette to share his butthurt with us. He seemed…..stupid.

  • O_Hellllllllp

    I’m in awe, Rebecca. You have earned a dwelling…on top of the fact that you are paying for one, of course.

  • Longstreet63

    Good for the Greens! After all, social change can only come when people learn to turn their backs and walk away from any opposing thought.

  • ClarkJoe

    Ran into a Stein ‘canvasser’ at a street festival on Saturday. He shoved a brochure in my face and screamed something about shutting down Wall Street. My friend turned to him and said “How will voting for Stein change anything about Wall Street?”

    • Good_Gawd_Yall

      Did he have an answer?

      • ClarkJoe

        Argle bargle, Revolution, rigged system, etc. We kept walking.

    • alwayspunkindrublic

      Street fair with Jill Stein operatives? Nah, really? That’s about as likely as seeing dogs wearing bandannas there.

    • Equitable_Trolling

      Also, doesn’t “shutting down Wall Street” sound like a terrible idea? Like, just totally awful? It’s the kind of answer a child would give to the question like “how do you get lead out of our drinking water,” and their answer is “let everyone drink chocolate milk!”

      • ClarkJoe

        Well, I’m kind of relying on Wall Street to operate effectively so I have some money to live on when I retire. I guess not wanting to work for the rest of my life makes me a corporate whore.

        • Historicat

          You won’t be working after the Revolution !!1!#!

          I assume we’ll all be guillotined at some point after that …

  • Mpeg

    So — I’m picturing our Editrix eviscerating this tool from a cool distance, reclining (if such a thing is possible?) in the inflatable kiddie pool, mixed drink over ice in a Hurricane glass in one hand, steadying Donna Rose’s frisking-about & splashing with the other.

  • Good_Gawd_Yall

    I am in awe of two things in this story: the fact that you were able to get a word in edgewise with a canvasser – in my experience they talk over you – and that the guy actually thinks in this election the two major parties are the same. That’s just – I just – I can’t – I – GAAAHHHHH!

  • Vecchiojohn

    Send these coddled children around to my place. I am full of cranky old man rage™®©. Voting Green? You better believe that’s a paddlin’!

  • memzilla

    What better stratagery could there be than for a man talking to a woman, on behalf of a woman, to call the other woman the woman’s voting for “a whore?” #patriarchy

    • coozledad

      Misogyny is the anchor of Leninism. It’s one of the premier cults of the socially marginalized white male.

  • Hairstrike Alpha

    Oh come on, it’s totally normal to demand a political opponent got tossed into jail. I mean, look at the GOP- they even have a chant for it. When Count Orlock was up there hollering and spitting all over everyone the crowd kept chanting “lock her up!” When the partially deflated Kool-Aid man was up there ‘indicting’ her the crowd kept chanting “lock her up!” When Velveeta Mussolini was screaming like an enraged hedgehog the crowd was chanting “lock her up!” It’s totally normal for Jill Stein to do the same.

    • Hutch

      Upvoted for “Count Orlock was up there hollering and spitting all over everyone….” Inspired.

      • For the Count Orlok impaired:

      • revenant

        BOROWITZ REPORT
        POLL: AMERICANS WORRIED ABOUT KEEPING FAMILIES SAFE FROM RUDY GIULIANI
        By Andy Borowitz , JULY 19, 2016

        PHOTOGRAPH BY ALEX WONG / GETTY IMAGES
        CLEVELAND (The Borowitz Report)—In what promises to be a key issue in the 2016 general election, a majority of Americans now say that they want a President who can keep their families safe from Rudy Giuliani, a new poll finds.

        According to the poll, which was conducted on Monday night by the University of Minnesota’s Opinion Research Institute, an unprovoked attack by Giuliani now rivals immigration, terrorism, and the economy as a top concern of likely voters.

        In interviews across the country, voters expressed dismay that neither of the major political parties’ presumptive nominees had offered a coherent plan to prevent the former mayor of New York from harming them or their families in a sudden fit of rage.

        “He clearly could go off at any moment, and no one is talking about how to stop him,” Carol Foyler, a mother of two from suburban San Jose, said. “I feel less safe from Rudy Giuliani than I did one night ago.”

        Harland Dorrinson, a father of three in Toledo, shared her concerns. “When I put my kids to bed last night, I told them, ‘Don’t worry, the bad man on TV can’t hurt you,’ ” he said. “I wish I could believe that. I really do.”

    • chimichanga

      Is there an anti-Green vaccination? There aut to be (sorry)

      • calliecallie

        No need to be so rube(lla).

      • coozledad

        The occasional bath usually does the trick.

    • coozledad

      if Trump escapes a felony conviction for his university swindle, he may have to be placed in protective custody to avoid being disappeared by his former associates.

      He likes sucking up to killers. It’s an old habit.
      http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/donald-trump-attempt-court-mobster-daughter-didn-article-1.2732403

    • John MV

      Pro-Clinton camp has been calling for Trump to be investigated for espionage and assassination threats; how is that not wanting the justice arm of the State to intervene in elections?

      • Hairstrike Alpha

        Uhm well because for one thing it’s not a foreign power and for two, if Hillary had come out and ‘jokingly’ asked a foreign power to locate Donald Trump’s taxes and suddenly the RNC, the Trump campaign and over 100 other sources had been hacked- fuck yes she should be investigated for that. Especially if she often traded on her relationship with Putin and she and Putin had a public love-fest. If you can’t see why anyone would wonder what’s up with this asshole and the Russians then you’re a blind, stupid partisan.

  • Beanz&Berryz

    Our edititrix does ragey really well.

    • Tio_Doidinho

      I have no doubts.

  • John Iwaniszek

    Yeah!

  • Good_Gawd_Yall

    This is what I feared from a Trumplethinskin candidacy: that the level of discourse in this country, already teetering on the edge most of the time anyway, would be shoved into the muck. I seriously doubt we will ever recover. Another thing we can thank Fanta Hitler and his enablers in the media for.

  • Shibusa
  • Vecchiojohn

    Is Jill Stein somehow related to President Erdogan?

    • bubbuhh

      I believe they share a connection through collateral branches of the shitweasel clan.

  • bubbuhh

    Hope Editrix getz n2 her own house soon B4 she exhausts all her friendz entertainment opportunities!

  • Gayer Than Thou

    OK, I literally cannot even with the one-character-at-a-time typing. Is this a new Disqus feature? Or is it finally time to replace my dial-up modem?

    • Good_Gawd_Yall

      I’m having the same problem here. Thought it was just my computer.

    • Shan the Libtart

      My old laptop does that. I think it’s bogged down with garbage. My new one doesn’t have that issue.

    • Longstreet63

      I think it’s Disqus choking on al the non-allowed comments, since it’s happening on all of my three platforms, one of which is a 78mb connection.
      If all you people would stop, I could make A Dick Joke or something.
      By noon eastern, I usually have to give up.

    • FlownOver

      Unlikely as it may seem I fixed that issue this morning by turning the computer off and then back on. I can haz tech support job?

      • bupkus23

        You just exercised 75% of the advice I’ve ever received from tech support….

  • JVisconti

    College towns in Montana seem to attract the most fervent amongst us.

    • Lizzietish81

      College towns everywhere.

      • JVisconti

        Annoying at times, but definetly not a bad thing.

  • Señor Skwerl King

    I am disappointed that you didn’t chase him away with your 2nd Amendment votes solution. Because that’s how we deal with hippies in the Norther Tier.

  • AnOuthouse

    I registered as Green in 2000. I switched to Democrat this year. At some point you grow up and realize that with our system, there can only be two parties. Besides, I have friends who are active in the party locally and they need their petitions signed.

    • Historicat

      Well, you can have more than two parties but since our system doesn’t have party support built in, you end up with the current dynamics. I’m trying to avoid going off on a rant about third parties, the evolution of the party system in this country, and the limited successes of third parties.

  • fawkedifiknow

    Whenever I hear the name “Jill Stein” I am reminded of that Ben Stein guy. Not that they have much in common ideologically or politically, but because of their common last name and because she is, allegedly, “cunty” and he is, in fact, a “prick”. So they have personalities well described by vulgar, insulting, politically incorrect names. Does that make sense?

    • mardam422

      Actually, I’ve always thought Ben was kinda cunty.

    • FlownOver

      Makes as much sense as either of the Steins.

      • Celtic_Gnome

        The only thing I like in my steins is beer.

    • DodgeDixie&Descartes

      Ben Stein did write a pretty brilliant book about a friend’s addiction once upon a time called ‘Ludes. Jill on the other hand did not.

    • natoslug

      I much prefer Bier over Ben and Jill. Now that’s a Stein I can get behind.

  • TJ Barke

    What a way to start the day.

  • anon_the_great

    The Kid is the product of Rethugalism. Those hairy bastards break government at every opportunity and call it progress then our Disaster Media says both sides do it. Little wonder the Kid is confused.

  • AntiDerpomeme

    You know who is cunty? Me. ‘Cause I would have totally toyed with the hippie canvaser dude by lying that I was a Drumpf supporter and then I’d launch into a tirade about how Muzzies and hippies and Mexicans are running the country. He’d run away so fast. But I guess that’s not appropriate behavior when you are yard-proxy for a dear friend.

    • bubbuhh

      Muzzies okay, realiez.

  • Gayer Than Thou

    I did spend a lot of time talking to the hot Doctors Without Borders guy – even let him explain what the organization is – but I didn’t give him any money because I don’t make donations (monetary, anyway) on the street.

    • AntiDerpomeme

      MSF is the one org (outside of the Dems and the Wonkette) that I consistently throw money at. And they’ve never sent a cute doctor to chat me up. Unfair!

      • Lizzietish81

        I give to Planned Parenthood too.

        I actually give to a lot of orgs actually

        • rebecca

          yes. Everyone (EVERYONE) gets $25 from me, with the caveat that they can’t ask again for a year. I end up hanging up on the DCCC about three times a week. CALL ME IN OCTOBER PLEASE.

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            calls, emails, snailmails- once you give they think they have license to pester daily

          • Ghenghis McCann

            My mother is registered blind. A few years ago she was called by the Royal National Institute for the Blind, to see if she would be willing to sell raffle tickets for them. She explained to them that it might be somewhat difficult for her, for obvious reasons. The caller then said that she could maybe just try selling to friends and neighbours. That was the point when she hung up. When charities start trying the hard sell with vulnerable people, I really despair for the human race.

    • rebecca

      I always give to Doctors Without Borders and Habitat for Humanity when there’s a World Bad Thing going on. Fuck hte Red Cross.

      • Jennaratrix

        Hey, I have to say this. By all means, donate to the charity you think is going to do the most good with your money, but “Fuck the Red Cross” hits me where I live.

        I’ve been volunteering for the Red Cross for more than five years, since the tornado hit Joplin, MO (not far from where I now live) and I felt completely helpless because there was nothing I could do. I know the Red Cross has gotten some bad press (deservedly) in the past; but the past several years have seen a huge change in the organization. More accountability, more of the money donated going directly to people who need it (more than 90% according to Charity Navigator).

        We don’t just help in major disasters, and in fact, I’ve never deployed to a major national disaster. The vast majority of Red Cross responses is to home fires; we show up and help the family get into a safe place for the next few nights, and provide cash for their immediate necessities – clothes, food, medications lost in the fire. We also provide follow-on assistance, but I’m on the team that goes to the fire when it happens – usually in the middle of the night – to help that family get someplace to sleep, something to wear, and something to eat.

        You don’t know me, so this won’t mean much to you, but I wouldn’t donate my time – for a while there I was on call overnight every Saturday – to an organization if I thought they were being profligate with the funds or not doing the right thing by the people needing help. The Red Cross is filling a need that no other organization does; the fire department will put out the fire, and private companies will board up the gutted house, but no one helps find those families (usually without insurance) someplace to sleep.

        As I said, donate to the charities that you feel do the most good; but I’d ask that you do your research so you have the right information. Charity Navigator has details about where Red Cross donations go so that you can look it up for yourself; you don’t need to believe me. Especially since this comment isn’t allowed.

        • Invidosa

          Red Cross saves my family’s ass when their house burned down, and saves my life with several bags of donated blood. Your folks are on my Xmas list ad infinitum!

  • Rotisserie Teal

    Dear Editrix,
    Thank you for sharing. I’ve always had a great deal of patience, even empathy for the Green party and it’s goals (however Quixotic they were) But Ms Stein’s pandering to the anti-vaxer crowd was just one whole grain, non GMO step too far for me. Fuck her and the rest of the petulant idiots who can’t see the stakes of this election.
    She sucks.
    You rock.

    with love
    RT

  • Tallmutha
    • bubbuhh

      It is a cunning plan, a very cunting plan.

    • Lizzietish81

      “What we know from history, and what we know from the current situation, we are seeing a rise in right-wing extremism, not just in the United States, and it’s not just Donald Trump, it’s also throughout countries in Europe. What is driving this? It is policies like NAFTA, like globalization, like the dominance of the banks, like the Wall Street bailouts, like the Wall Street meltdown thanks to deregulation. Who gave us those policies? The Clintons were leading the way on those policies! The answer to neofascism is stopping neoliberalism. Putting another Clinton in the White House will fan the flames of this right-wing extremism. We have known that for a long time ever since Nazi Germany. We are going to stand up to Donald Trump and to stand up to Hillary Clinton!”

      Jeebus this woman is unhinged.

      Well there’s always La Rouche

      • Tallmutha

        I guess the idea is that electing a “neoliberal” will lead to electing a “neofascist,” so we might as well just elect the neofascist and cut out the middleman.

        • Celtic_Gnome

          I’m still not sure exactly what a neoliberal is. From what I can gather, groups add “neo” to the beginning of titles they don’t like to demonize that group.

      • bupkus23

        Thank you for sharing this. I never really had anything against the Greens, just figured they were too minor to waste a vote on. But, the fact that they have named a woman who says crap like this lowers my opinion of that party even more.

        They should stick to their environmental themes ( and, yeah, reforming Wall Street might help environmental causes, but to get there by demonizing people is just wrong )

      • Zippy W Pinhead

        Because Bill Clinton is solely responsible for NAFTA (no, he is not, HW negotiated and signed the treaty- Bill just finished up after Congress ratified it) and Bill is solely responsible for the rise of big banks and Wall Street (no, he did his part by sign G-L-B but the rise of finance industry was well underway since the 70’s and exploded in the 80’s under Saint Ronnie. And Glass Steagall was whittled away piece by piece for the last 30 years in a systematic fashion). But it’s easier to blame him (and therefore her) than to take the time to thoroughly understand the issues.

        • Look Closer

          Ahh, Zippy. Your intelligence is way over their heads!

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            I’m just not big on bumper sticker solutions to complex problems.

            Big banks bad! USA! won’t fix shit…

          • Look Closer

            Agree wholeheartedly!

      • Marla

        What we know. Who, exactly, is this “we”?

        Stein and the Green’s purport nothing but empty claim of a social/political independence that will somehow tear into the heart of Wall Street and all the corruption that goes with it only to have a pro-capiltlist agenda of their own.

        They are sooooooooo desperate for attention that Stein announced she would withdrawal her presidential candidacy if Sanders agreed to become the presidential candidate of the Green’s after his democratic presidential candidacy withdrawal.

        Sanders politely told Stein to go fuck herself.

      • Werewolf

        More to point in the original German-
        “Nach Hitler, uns!”

    • Shan the Libtart

      Faaaack! That’s like the article I posted yesterday and was freaking out about!

      What’s even more horrifying is realizing that more than one person thinks this shit!

    • I have no idea what point she was trying to make. Maybe that makes me a stupid old person, or maybe Stein’s been attending the Sarah Palin School of Speeching and Griftology. I mean, despite all the insane things that come out of Sarah’s mouth, I can usually get the gist of whatever dumbass opinion she’s spouting. But I read all the words Jill Stein said (most of which I can identify as real, actual, individual words of America English), and there’s not a goddamn thing that makes sense.

  • Zippy W Pinhead

    I’m actually OK with a viable third party, but there’s the catch- viability. In our first past the post system, it probably isn’t going to happen. The only way it will, is with long, hard work at the local level and a commitment to the long game. But what we always see is just a cult of personality run for POTUS. Stein isn’t even that- it’s not her personality driving her candidacy, she’s nothing more than a placeholder for anger against the two parties (much of it quite justified) or irrational Clinton hatred. That’s not a foundation for building a national party.

    • Equitable_Trolling

      How about actually showing that you’re prepared to govern the country before asking us to vote for you to govern the country? Step one would be getting some people elected to local, state, and national office. Step two would be nominating someone who has some business being president, not someone whose only qualification for the office is having been a Representative to the Lexington, MA Town Meeting. Step three would be getting your act together so that you can actually be on the ballot in all 50 states, so that you can pretend to be trying to win the election.

  • Marla

    So the Stein Party has taken a page from the Mormon/roofing/siding/yard care school of door-to-door sales pitch. I must admit I’m a little jealous not one representing her has shown up here. I do know of one Stein supporter who has recently joined the Green bandwagon simply because being a Bernie brat is no longer consider “kwel” anymore.

  • Nockular cavity

    What Rebecca is leaving out is that she looked HOT A.F., lounging in a bikini top with a drink with a little umbrella, sunbathing (or whatever they do in Montana–snow bathing? Bear bathing?), calmly taking said hippie apart. At least in my mind.

    • Longstreet63

      I accept your drooling fantasy as an axiom.

  • Look Closer

    Heh.

  • goonemeritus

    Being in a solidly blue State I have the option to vote for Jill Stein and not help Trump. I won’t be doing that because I can’t picture having a beer with Jill or any of her holier than thou storm troopers.

  • beatbort

    I’m sure Jill Stein already has the “IMPEACH HILLARY” signs made up, the brochures printed, the folding tables and folding chairs assembled, so that she can spend the next 8 years sitting outside post offices hectoring poor schmos like me just trying to get my mail.

    • Equitable_Trolling

      Someone will need to carry on the glorious Larouchite tradition of pasting Hitler moustaches on pictures of the President!

      • revenant

        while ardently following a Hitler-wannabe and espousing neo-Nazi ideology. maybe the Greens can even get a tie-in with the Goethe Institute, if only to complete their Bingo card

  • DodgeDixie&Descartes

    LOL. I have a co-worker in his early 40’s who spent the primary season dogging Chelsea Clinton events and holding up signs accusing her of raising yet another generation of warmongers for the 1%, because attacking Chelsea was somehow going to help Bernie. Of course my coworker grew up in a wealth Philly suburb and never had to borrow money to attend a string of less than illustrious private colleges until somebody took pity and gave him a degree. His own children attend private schools and his parents still pay for his mobile phone. It doesn’t come as a surprise that these days Jill has become the heroic dragon slayer fueling his wet dreams. Lame stream media is totally lying about St Stein and vaccines, sayeth my pal. The polls lie too. No progressive likes Hillz, no stoner likes Johnson (buddy boy knows about progressives and stoners!) so clearly the majority of voters intend to Go Green. But the fix is in, I’m told. Yep. That must be it.

    • Zippy W Pinhead

      welcome to the echochamber- it’s not just for right wingers anymore

  • Cheesus Crust

    Oh, Editrix, did no one teach you to play with your food before you eat it? You’ve gotta suck them in, get their hopes up before you pounce! Like the Bernie guy that called me before the California primary… where I acted like I had no idea what was going on (“Oh, really?! She actually did that? Wow! Free college for my kid? Interesting!) for 45 minutes before I pounced; took apart his whole BS spiel and then laughed as I told him I just wanted to waste as much of his time as I could and, really, I’ve always #BeenWithHer (since ’08 even).

    More fun that way.

    • Jennaratrix

      I admire your tenacity, but I couldn’t be bothered to stay on the phone for 45 minutes with the republican stoolie who called me during the 2008 run-up.
      Caller: Hi, this is random dude calling for the RNC, how are you?
      Me: I’m fine, yourself?
      Caller: Great! I’m calling today to talk to you about the upcoming election; are you registered to vote?
      Me: I sure am.
      Caller: Wonderful! Can I count on your vote for [Republican running for Senate]?
      Me: You sure can’t. I’m a registered Democrat and am voting with my party.
      Caller: [Brief silence.] Thank you for your time.
      Me: [Hangs up.]

    • malsperanza

      First rule of canvassing: Find out as quickly as possible if the person you’re talking to has made a decision already.

      Second rule of canvassing: if they have, say Thank you, and walk away.

  • peekay

    The biggest problem with a third party: if nobody gets at least 270 electoral votes, the U.S. House gets to choose (one vote per state). If they tie, the U.S. Senate gets to choose (one vote per senator). I don’t think the House or Senate will vote for Stein. Definitely not Hillary. I guess that leaves us with Johnson or He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named (Voldemort).

    • HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Voldemort!?!?! Trump’s TOTALLY a squib.

      • Celtic_Gnome

        Slytherin would have laughed Trump off the face of the Earth. Definitely a Hufflepuff.

    • DesertedPictures

      I prefer Voldemort. At least his rule will be magical.

      • peekay

        I always hate deciding between the lesser of two evils.

  • Parchment Scroll

    How does this woman have any support at all?! HOW???

    • Jen_Baker_VA

      Because both sides do it and burn it all down.
      Pretty much.

    • Look Closer

      Because there are a lot of dumb people on this earth!

    • Marla

      How does that song go….

      “Lunatic fringe…I know you’re out there.”

      That’s how.

    • DinkyBossetti

      From what I can gather, it’s because the system is broken/rigged, so why would we want to elect anyone with experience with that system?

    • DesertedPictures

      They don’t support her. Seriously. I’ve yet to met any Jill supporter that didn’t start arguing against Hillary Clinton. Ninety percent don’t even mention her viewpoints.

  • MW

    You sir sound like a fool. Who cares how far she has gotten in politics. She is a Harvard educated Doctor. Jill Stein is by far the most honest moral candidate left in the rade. She has my vote!

    • bupkus23

      “Morals”??? You’re gonna base your vote on morals?

      What a moran!

      • MW

        Yes. Honesty, trust and a moral compass is the only thing I’ll base my vote on. What are you basing your vote on??

        • bupkus23

          What? No actual knowledge of her positions on issues and intelligent consideration of the practical consequences of your “moral” decision?

          Talking about “morals” is the refuge of the uninformed.

    • The Wanderer

      Aw, aren’t you sweet.

    • Marla

      For @$50 I can get a degree in just about anything via the back page of RollingStone. You can vote for me too and achieve the same results.

      • UmmmWhat?

        I’m writing in Marla!

    • Brazilian Fart Porn

      She is not honest and moral, but you can believe what you will.

    • Delu

      Need I remind you that Ben Carson too is a Doctor. A Brain Surgeon no less, and a good one too.

      Did you vote for him because of his PHD?

    • anna rampage

      Didn’t G W Bush go to Harvard, or was that Yale?

      • Jenny

        Both I thought?

        • Look Closer

          Just Yale.

          • Daisy

            No, I just looked, he went to both.

          • Jenny

            Yup I went to look it up too. Yale undergrad and Harvard MBA

          • Daisy

            It doesn’t really do much for my opinion of those schools, either.

          • Historicat

            Yeah, Ivy League schools are really losing that aura of greatness.

          • revenant

            C+ Augustus sure had the credentials. not much knowledge, nor a fucking lick of sense, but diplomas for sure.

          • beatbort

            Yes, and both were legacy acceptances. He did not gain entry to either college on his own merits.

          • Look Closer

            Well I suppose he is smarter than he appeared! :)

    • Daisy

      She panders to fucking anti-vaxxers, who are responsible for children dying. She’s not fucking moral.

    • I think you mean ‘race’.

    • Me not sure

      “I laughed, I cried, she was better than “Cats”!
      I intend to vote for her again and again!”

    • revenant

      and we hope you two will be very happy together. meanwhile, kindly take your weak shit elsewhere, because the grownups are talking here

    • Lizzietish81

      Jill Stein is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I’ve ever known in my life.

      • DesertedPictures

        Does she pet puppies though?

        • Dudleydidwrong

          Just before she eats them.

    • jmk

      I’ll quote myself from the other Jill Stein thread…

      “Jill Stein is cynically exploiting the fears of anti-vaxxers for votes. She does not share those fears, and has the education to evaluate and refute the alarmism on which those fears are based, but she has decided that her political ambitions are more important than the lives of the children of the ignorant asswipes whose fears she is reinforcing to mine them for votes.

      That’s more than just cynical. That’s horrific.”

      And that’s why YOU, “sir,” sound like A Idiot, calling her “honest” and “moral” when she is not.

    • DesertedPictures

      And my axe!

      • Jennaratrix

        *snort*

    • Jennaratrix

      Moral? I don’t think you should use that word about an anti-vaxxer. Come to think of it, “doctor” in this context is problematic, too. As is honest. So, what else you got? Harvard?

    • rebecca

      I GOT ME A HONORARY PENIS!

      • Whale Chowder

        Did you borrow Shy’s?

        • Historicat

          Hell no, she owns that thing!

  • Me not sure

    I still, for the life of me, can’t figure out who the fuck this egotistical, relentless self promoter thinks she is. Trump filled that job vacancy years ago.

  • Ryan Denniston

    Rebecca you make us so proud!

  • Did you at least get a little buzz from sniffing the mimeograph? (Folks under a certain age will not understand this question…)

    • The Wanderer

      It depends upon how fresh the copies are.

    • Beowoof14

      Was my favorite thing in the third grade to go and pick up freshly mimeographs from the office.

      • Oh hell yes! That was some good shit!

      • Shan the Libtart

        And if you were a great big swot and a teacher’s pet like me, you were sometimes allowed to crank the machine!

        • AngryKatie

          I was a library aide one year, so for two hours every week that was my job. I think it might be the best job I ever had.

          • Shan the Libtart

            Ha! So was I. I had a free class period so I spent it shelving books in the library. I also got into the AV library and discovered lots of new music.

    • Me not sure

      When I first stated teaching in 1975, I was constantly amazed that there was a room full of cans of highly volatile liquid, in every public school, where teachers would sneak off to secretly smoke. Ditto fluid and an open flame could have been a real disaster. When dry toner copiers came into the schools I breathed a sigh of relief.

  • Paperless Tiger

    Everyone complains that the two-party system is rigged so third parties don’t have a chance, but they never seem to notice that all the third parties we’ve seen are flaky as hell. Don’t get me wrong. I’m all for green energy, but it seems more like a plank than a platform. And don’t even get me started on the Libertarians and their freakish NGO master plan. How about something that makes sense, like a straight-up Labor Party? Anyone?…Bueller?

    • Sounds like the labor party in actual Britain is about 2 split into two. Maybe we can have one of theirs? They can’t actually be using them both right?

    • DodgeDixie&Descartes

      We tried the multi-party thang until it led us into a little dance called the Civil War. Since then… not so much.

    • Serai 1

      A third party might have a chance if it was well-organized and viable. So long as these “third parties” are disorganized, chaotic and full of stupid woo, they’re never going to get anywhere.

  • FZsdaughter

    “mimeographed”, was it? hehe #olds

    • UmmmWhat?

      A shame the youngs will never know the time traveling buzz one gets from the scent of mimeograph fluid

      • Shan the Libtart

        And actual blue blueprints.

        • revenant

          jeezus, those things were hard to read. well, still are, but you only get to see them on a rehab job

      • revenant

        not so sure they were much better for you than sniffing airplane glue

    • zerosumgame0005

      I can still smell them :)

      • Serai 1

        I used to run that machine when I was in 8th grade. Yep, that smell is unmistakable, none like it. (Amazing how fucking PRECISE the sense of smell is.)

        • zerosumgame0005

          Direct connection to our memories :)

          Is that Cheese or Just B.O.?

          Researchers have found that cognition significantly influences the
          perception of smell. A psychologist at the University of Oxford labeled
          an ambiguous Brie-like scent as either “cheddar cheese” or “body odor.”
          Test subjects rated the odor higher when it was labeled cheddar cheese. MRIs even showed more activity in the olfactory region of the brain when subjects believed they were smelling cheese [source: Scientific American].

          http://health.howstuffworks.com/mental-health/human-nature/perception/smell3.htm

  • Portia McGonagal

    Ran into a Stein supporter at an art fair this weekend and put up my hand, said “Stop. I’m team Hillary and you have no power here”

    • zerosumgame0005

      “these are not the vaxxers you are looking for”

    • malsperanza

      Begone, before somebody drops a White House on you!

  • Jenny

    Of course he’s never met a Hillary supporter, he is in Missoula where fringe is fine. You’re either socialist liberal or Ron Paul libertarians. The moderates are around the lake and rivers, Big fork, Polson, White Fish, Kalispell. You know with their water front properties that can only be bought with wall street monies!!

    • rebecca

      (we are moving to Polson, today maybe. one of our five neighbors has a hillary sign.)

      • Jenny

        I loved living in Polson. I lived off Rocky Point road. There is something charming about it and the summer events are fun. The winter is kind of depressing but still beautiful. If I ever move back to Montana I’d probably go back to Polson or Kalispell. Kalispell has an adorable downtown charm with the big box stores not too far away.

      • Historicat

        Looks like a nice place – when should we plan to visit?

  • Look Closer

    The ignorance of people is astonishing! They are will to stand on “principle” by electing a race baiting bigot who has no idea how to run a government the size of this country’s. It’s flat out astonishing!

  • Look Closer

    As Click & Clack used to say on CarTalk: they’re “unencumbered by the though process” and blissfully fact-free.

    • jmk

      Sigh… I miss Tom.

  • DesertedPictures

    In the seventies the Green party in Germany was formed by groups of enviromental activists. You should have seen those first party conventions: hundereds of strange counter-culture types: it was a gathering of hippies and disiliusoned social-democrats.

    Their viewpoints and programs where radical and revolutionairy. In 1983 they got their first seats in parliament. In the nineties they joined the German goverment in a coalition for the first time.

    You should see that party now. Go to a convention and meet a lot of earnest people dressed in nice blouses and jackets. Their program is still very green, but also earnest and achievable. And it’s boring as hell: just like all the other parties.

    You see: this is what the Jill-Stein supporters of the world don’t get: parties are only the pure radical alternative, as long as they are outside the system. But what happens if they start winning? Who will stay to organise when candidates are trying to appeal to moderates and the like, because they see a chance to get elected?

    It will be the boring people: the people with their boring clothes, burgeoise lifestyles, that like the party programs and try to get them implemented over a long time. And once that happens you will hear a lot of complaining by associates of the party, that don’t volunteer there, don’t do all the boring administrative stuff, that ‘the establishment is holding everyone back’.

    • fka_donnie_d

      And, again we see the perversion of American political psychology that convinces everyone that all goals are best (only) achieved through electoral politics.

  • WesleyV

    Vote Hillary November 8, 2016

    • Look Closer

      And actively campaign for her! She is going to need every vote!

  • anna rampage

    I have a few “friends” on Facebook who are ardent Jill Pills, for fucks sake, the shit they post is on the same level of absurdity as what I saw from all those conservative, anti choice, anti gay climate change deniers that I have unfriended throughout the years…

    • Whollyholeyholy

      My husband switched his affiliation from Green to vote for Sanders in the primary. Even he is not voting for Stein this year.

      • Whollyholeyholy

        Meanwhile, my father, the oldest Bernie Bro on Earth, is voting for Stein even though he A.) didn’t know she existed until 6 weeks ago, and B.) was a “Republican” in theory who never voted in his entire life until that wouldn’t keep you from getting called for jury duty anymore.

        • Invidosa

          My Bernie bro baby brother (heh!) Was all set to vote for Stein . . . Until we watches the shit show at the RNC. He now feels it is the moral obligation of every thinking human to do everything and anything to stop the walking melanoma. Even though he disagrees with Madam President to be on some key things, he is cheerfully stumping for her now. I’m REALLY glad he changed his mind before all the anti-vax stuff came to my attention!! Cause I would not have been able to keep from screetching like an enraged harpy.

  • natoslug

    I’ve been looking around at alternative parties, and have a question: How do you feel about the Green Party and Jill Stein?

  • Beowoof14

    I usually go to the door holding by his harness my 86lb Boxer and tell them he doesn’t want to talk. And he is usually making his feelings known about their knocking on his door. They all leave.

    • DinkyBossetti

      Same, but with a pit bull. He sounds vicious when he barks, and they don’t know he is actually barking because he wants them to pet him.

    • Jennaratrix

      Ditto with my (mostly) rottie. She actually just wants to lick them to death, but she’s really loud about asking.

  • PH

    You realize that the Democrats are only talk, right? They just took universal healthcare off their platform, how progressive can they be?

    Many people feared Romney in the last election, and McCain before him. Obama was supposed to be progressive America’s best friend.

    He wasn’t supposed to bail out Wall Street like he did, he wasn’t supposed to deport more immigrants than any other president, he wasn’t supposed to be Monsanto’s buddy.

    With two Democratic chambers of Congress, Obama was supposed to push for universal healthcare, instead he got a variant of Romneycare passed, and empowered the insurance companies.

    Onto older Democrats,

    Bill got NAFTA passed with Hillary’s support, and that took away high-wage jobs that naturally minorities would fill out a lot of.

    How come Hillary supported Bill’s mass incarceration bill, jailing many young blacks, and Bill’s welfare reform bill, kicking many off of welfare, 70% of those people children, and a lot of minorities, or were the people jailed or kicked off of welfare those superpredators she was talking about, so it’s okay?

    So much for Bill being “the first black president”.

    How come Hillary helped the coups in Libya and Honduras, causing the refugee crises, then turned around, and deported those refugees whose lives she ruined, helping Obama become the president of immigrant deportations?

    What about her Saudi friends attacking Yemeni civilians and oppressing everyone in their country that isn’t male royalty?

    • DoILookAmused2u ?

      I ain’t cottoning up to no anti-vaxxer, food woo crackpots.

      Thank you, no.

      Buh-bye.

      • PH
        • DoILookAmused2u ?

          Dr. Stein is sadly mistaken about a great many things. For example, her rant about “corporate influence” on the vaccine approval process is straight out of the antivaccine playbook and based on incorrect information. As David Weigel pointed out, the most members of the Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee work at academic or medical institutions, not drug companies. Yes, there are representatives from drug companies there, but they are a minority, and they are nonvoting members. Moreover, VRBPAC business is nearly all conducted in public. There are only very rarely nonpublic working groups, and all meeting materials are posted to the FDA website. Dr. Stein can peruse them herself going back many years if she so desires. In fact, I urge her to do so. Also, VRBPAC has vigorous screening for financial conflicts of interest. If a member has any, then that member can’t vote. Finally, I can’t help but note that the antivaccine group the National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC) has occupied the voting consumer representative slot in the past. Barbara Loe Fisher held it in the past, and, more recently, Vickie Diebold. (For example, check out this 2009 VRBPAC roster). Basically, Dr. Stein is utterly clueless how vaccines are approved and has repeatedly slandered the FDA over it.

    • Lizzietish81

      So what IS Jill Stein’s plan to dismantle Wall St? How about her plan to bring universal healthcare?

      How does she plan to deal with Isis?

      What are her trade policies? She seems rather anti global, how will she be able to cut off the various economic ties with other countries?

      • Callyson

        Something something we need a political revolution something something!

        • revenant

          but they leave out step 4, which is Profit!?!

      • anna rampage

        So what IS Jill Stein’s plan to dismantle Wall St?

        She proposes we do away with currency all together and should start buying goods with beads and shells. /s

        • Querolous

          So she is a Bitcoin fan?

      • jmk

        It will all happen in the Age of Aquarius, silly banana.

        Best not to ask how – it’s bound to be chakras or healing crystals or kombucha or some such shit.

      • limberrat

        She’ll deal with Wall Street by turning us into Leninist Russia maaaaan!
        She’ll deal with ISIS by closing all of the overseas bases, gutting the defense budget, and putting her fingers in her ears hoping they go away!
        Her trade policies will be the same as the coffee shop she goes to daily, it’ll be fair trade duuude!

      • Jennaratrix

        We should probably start by asking what her plan to get elected is; seems to me that’s an insurmountable hurdle.

      • Serai 1

        How does she plan to deal with Isis?

        I don’t know, maybe some incense and a small sacrifice of grain?

        Those fucking MURDERERS are not Isis. They having nothing to do with Isis. Please don’t call them that – it demeans and insults a beautiful goddess, an ancient cultural symbol, the embodiment of faithful love and motherhood. THAT’S WHY THEY TOOK THE NAME. Don’t hand them that victory.

      • PH

        She doesn’t want to “dismantle” Wall Street, she just doesn’t like that they’re ruling over Main Street, loaded question.

        She will just push to lower the age of eligibility for Medicare to birth.

        She will pull out of the Middle East, stop killing civilians which empowers the terror groups, and stop giving money and weapons to these nations that support and fund terror, like Turkey and Saudi Arabia. If we stop funding them, ISIS and other terrorist groups the Saudi monarchs love like Al-Qaeda will go broke.

        The US is the one who started this by manipulating people to fight against the Soviets in Afghanistan, by telling them to fight against the godless communists and funded those groups like the Taliban, after all.

        She is fine with trading with other countries, so that part is especially a loaded question.

        • Lizzietish81

          You DO know that the Russians invaded Afghanistan right? The US didn’t have to manipulate shit.

          • PH

            That was Afghanistan’s problem, and I agree with you, the US didn’t have to.

        • Lizzietish81

          eta Also, Turkey is a terrorist state? The current president is a dick bag as a country it’s secular, and there’s nothing to link them with Isis. Also the Saudi Royal family doesn’t like Al Queda, since Al Queda was formed because they let Americans in and so don’t like them.

          You seem to now know what you’re talking about.

          • PH

            Erdogan and his friends are buying oil from ISIS.

            The Saudi monarchy is totally into Wahabbism, Saudi Arabia is the birthplace of Wahabbism. Osama was a Saudi elite, black sheep of his family, but he gained Saudi support.

            The recent documents that were released point to a lot of Saudi – Al-Qaeda cooperation on 9/11, to the surprise of no one.

          • PH

            Didn’t I reply to all of your replies? I know I did, I just don’t see any of them.

        • Zyxomma

          And how on earth would she do any of the above with a Republican congress? (This question, of course, is strictly hypothetical, since she has ZERO chance of being elected. Unfortunately, she could very well act as a spoiler, and allow Trump to defeat Clinton.)

          • PH

            Perhaps if the Democrats could prove that they are there for the people, people would vote for them. You know, like what the Democratic Congress didn’t do during Obama’s first two years in office when, instead of making Obama feel free to push universal healthcare through, he decided to push a variant of Romneycare through Congress which, by they way, did pass.

            Greens are also running for Congress, and this new interest in the Greens after recent events with the DNC betraying Bernie Sanders, could help those Greens get elected.

      • PH

        I am glad you asked, by the way.

    • Honey you should go play somewhere else. Most of the rest of us don’t have time for such naïveté.

      • PH

        This is not a productive comment. Give me credible sources, prove me wrong.

    • HanBarbara

      It’s sad to see that left wing talking points can be at best as misleading and at worst as untruthful as right wing talking points.

      • Donkey Option

        It’s like the world. If you go far enough in one direction, you end up back where you started.

    • Indiepalin

      Khizr Khan is an agent of the Muslim Brotherhood.

      • HanBarbara

        Please take InfoWar lies somewhere else. You are off topic anyway.

        • Lizzietish81

          She’s a regular contributor, so I’m confuzzled by this comment.

          • Shan the Libtart

            I thought it was just joke, myself.

          • HanBarbara

            I’ve seen her engage in trolling before, she’s just polite about it and doesn’t break the rules. Mostly people ignore it. I suppose I should too, just not in the mood today.

        • Callyson

          I’m pretty sure Indiepalin is being sarcastic here, actually. But she’s good at channeling the wingnuts, isn’t she?

    • Jenny

      You know what’s great about the internet. You can find all the answers you’re looking for in multiple view points. You might even piece together the truth.

      That way you won’t need us to do your research for you! Everybody wins!

      • PH

        I believe it is the other way around. You don’t trust mainstream media to report the truth. Watch Democracy Now!, they have plenty of people against Clinton for the reasons I said before, and they almost always have a Clinton supporter who acknowledges that Hillary did those things, but for some reason still thinks she’s something good.

        • Jenny

          One, you missed the point. Two it isn’t about being “good.” NO ONE IS PERFECT. ESPECIALLY A POLITICIAN. I don’t want someone who isn’t going to compromise and will never budge in with their perfect ideals (that frankly less than 40% of the population supports.)

          That’s not politics and is the perfect way to never accomplish anything. Moderates move the country forward, not idealogues.

          Every walk of life (outside of school) is bargaining and negotion whether it is basic disagreements on lunch or trying to get a team to finish up a project or presentation. The people throwing their asses in the air never ever get their way and end up marginalized and ignored.

          Consensus matters.

          • PH

            I am not sure what conversation you are actually following, it certainly isn’t ours, but something good means anything remotely good in comparison. I’ll try to decipher the rest when it isn’t 3:58 in the morning anymore.

    • revenant

      thanks so very much for your labor in compiling this compendium of outright lies, less-than-half-truths, rumors and smears. nice to have them all in one tight little ball, so much easier to toss in to the waste basket. now, run along and play, there’s a good troll.

      • PH

        I’m sorry? Where are your sources?

    • Callyson

      high-wage jobs that naturally minorities would fill out a lot of

      1. Looks like someone is unaware of the ugly but real history of racism in some* unions. Those jobs would not have “naturally” gone to people of color by any means.

      2. Democrats got us a hell of a lot closer to universal healthcare than any fringe candidate ever did. Case in point: I have health insurance now, but that would be jeopardized in the event of a Trump victory. No difference between the two parties? Yeah, step off with that crap.

      3. Hillary has come out for criminal justice reform, in recognition of the excesses of the crime bill. So what’s your point?

      4. The DOS does not control deportations.

      5. Oh, for fuck’s sake.

      * = Yes, I know, #notallunions. But definitely some of them, sadly.

      • jmhm

        And yet Sanders, who these folks were happy with, not only voted for that crime bill but campaigned on his support for it.

        • Serai 1

          Interesting that they never bring that up, isn’t it? Or his vote against universal health care? Facts – SO inconvenient.

          • Truthiness2U

            Well to be fair to Bernie, he was working against “Hillarycare” because it wasn’t pure enough, (he wasn’t alone in this, and one of the few times that Jim McDermott disappointed me). And the only thing that Hillary was able to get out of it, was CHIP.

            Which good job, pouty purity Progressive types! We could have had an Obamacare back then, that we could have maybe refined into being true universal healthcare by now.

            Strange how they never seem to learn from the past.

      • PH

        In your own link, there is an entire section titled “Unions Lift Blacks”, and the last thing that was discussed was the year 1968. NAFTA was a product of the 90s.

        Trump did speak out in support of universal healthcare in the past, and while I always hated him, even before be started running, in my opinion, knowing his ego, and the fact that he called Republican voters stupid when he wasn’t running, I think this is just a show. I don’t think he is being serious about his racist remarks. He shouldn’t be rewarded for them, but I don’t know about him other than that he is a moron that doesn’t deserve office.

        http://dailycaller.com/2014/06/17/hillary-clinton-deport-the-illegal-children-back-to-central-america/

        • Callyson

          1. And since I specifically said #notallunions, what’s your point? (PS: lingering racism beyond 1968 is a thing.)

          2. Trump spoke in support of universal healthcare? Is that supposed to reassure me? He changes his positions on the hour, you know.

          3. How nice that you are in a position to be so dismissive of his racist remarks. My Latino neighbors who are terrified that their families will be deported and the Muslims who don’t know WTF to expect don’t have that luxury TYVM.

          4. This “show” is encouraging racists to spew their hate. You may not take that seriously, but I sure as hell do.

          5. Your link is to the Daily Holler? Yeah, sure, I’ll take a RWNJ website seriously! /s

          Reply if you like, but I’m done arguing with someone who has admitted not knowing about Trump.

          • PH

            1. I was curious, and still am curious, as to what your point was. The article doesn’t say anything remotely contemporary, again, NAFTA was from the mid-1990s. and you made it seem like even in the article you posted, that there was never a time when a significant amount of minorities were admitted into unions.

            2. It is supposed to confuse you like any how other reasonable human being would be affected, of course if you weren’t somehow aware, he has been saying this for years, and even recently, he has supported a form of universal healthcare for those who can’t pay for a private plan. https://youtu.be/peBa3SU46Qs?t=13m26s
            I obviously don’t trust him to do this, it somewhat reminds me of Hillary saying that one day she will try to get a public option for healthcare, and if that doesn’t say enough about Hillary, I don’t know what to say.

            3. Am I dismissing them? I said he shouldn’t be rewarded for those comments. I just don’t take him seriously, for many obvious reasons, some of which you and I already explained. I feel bad for your Latino neighbors, if you only have Latino neighbors, and not Latinas or Latinx.

            If I were them or the Muslims, I would be afraid of the lady who already deported many of their kind after she ruined their lives, which brought them to the United States in the first place, the same lady who voted for a border fence in 2006, explaining in 2015: “I voted numerous times when I was a senator to spend money to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in.” How about those minorities and children of many denominations kicked off of welfare after Bill’s welfare reform bill, which Hillary supported? How about her support of Bill’s’ mass incarceration bill? Or were those people kicked off of welfare or put in jail those superpredators she was talking about, and it’s okay?

            4. Hillary is a bigot herself, there is enough said about that.

            5. I mean it is a hardly disputed fact: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/18/hillary-clinton-immigration_n_5507630.html
            http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/11/hillary-clinton-s-child-deportation-flip-flop.html

            I wouldn’t call this arguing, it seems like a normal discussion over misunderstandings. I would only call it arguing if I had an ego problem. I had a lot of things to say about Trump not even in this conversation chain, so obviously i know about Trump, the point was clear that I only do not know what he would do in office.

    • DesertedPictures

      Instead of saying what’s so bad about the Democrats: why don’t you tell us why the Greens are so great?

      I’d also like to hear your opinion about Trump: is he better or worse as Clinton? And if he is worse, how will voting Green, make things better?

      • Rotisserie Teal

        Greens are high in vitamins. Especially A and D. And roughage is important for clearing the shit out of your system.

        The Green party, not so much.

        • Serai 1

          Their character does need fiber, indeed.

      • Serai 1

        It is interesting how they sell themselves almost wholly by harping on their opponents, isn’t it?

      • PH

        The Greens did many great things around the world, including in this country.

        Mayor Jason West of New Paltz, New York (big upstate college town) was arrested in 2004 for performing 25 same-sex marriages in two days, years before same-sex marriage was legal even in New York. He fought those charges, and they were dropped. New Paltz was the third city in the United States with a Green Party city council majority.

        Mayor Gayle McLaughlin of Richmond, CA is notable for doing many things even in this decade, like using eminent domain to buy underwater properties, and lower mortgage payments for the owner. Look up her name, because she did many great things.

        Trump is a moron, I have a family member that has a little history with him. He used to vocally support many progressive things, like universal healthcare, and years ago, he said Republican voters were stupid. I don’t think his racist remarks are serious, I think he just wants a show, he is a television guy, after all. I don’t think he should be supported for what he’s doing, but when you look at Clinton’s record, she is an awful war criminal. That is why Jill Stein needs 15% in the polls to get to the debates.

        We all should also contact all of our legislatures and tell them to push for ranked-choice voting.

        Use this site to find them all:
         http://act.commoncause.org/site/PageServer?pagename=sunlight_advocacy_list_page

        You should probably link this FairVote page, suggest they work with them, and to get this passed before the ballots get printed. They could pass it in under two days: http://www.fairvote.org/rcv#rcvbenefits

      • PH

        I am glad you asked, by the way.

    • mackafritz

      Monsanto? Is Monsanto some big bag bogeyman?

      • anna rampage

        Kind of, but really nothing that stricter campaign finance laws, a more equitable corporate tax structure & some better EPA guidelines cannot control…

        • mackafritz

          My point is why do the Greenies have a fixation on Monsanto. They are like any other big corporation.

          • anna rampage

            Mostly because they have their hands in something like 80%-90% of our food production & supply…

          • revenant

            maybe a bit overstated, but they are way too big

          • anna rampage

            Perhaps, but you should take a look at all of the subsidiaries Monsanto owns, not to mention Bayer, Monsanto’s biggest competitor, is in the process of buying them up…

          • Serai 1

            They’re hardly alone in being too big. The fact that these children fixate on them shows their lazy thinking and inability to handle the complexity in the world. It’s all OMG BIG BIG GONNA EAT US.

          • revenant

            it is their shorthand for “Big Agriculture”, and thus a stand-in for corporate culture at large. yelling at Monsanto is the young person’s variant on yelling at clouds

          • Serai 1

            It’s the greenie version of yelling at kids to get off your lawn. EXCEPT IT’S A FRANKENSTEIN LAWN MADE BY MONSANTO.

          • revenant

            cue “horror” sting

          • Serai 1

            Oh, oh, OH! *waves hand* I know, I know!

            It’s because they all went to Disneyland when they were kids and went on that “Adventure into Inner Space” ride, got all freaked out and scared, and then at the end saw that MONSANTO had funded it. So Monsanto MUST BE PLANNING TO DO EVILS TO US ALL!!!

            (As for me, that was my favorite fucking ride in the whole park. I loved the models of progressively (HA) smaller and smaller divisions of matter. It blew my little mind. SO PISSED when they retired it, yo!)

      • PH

        If there ever was one. They did, after all, sell large amounts of Agent Orange to the US military for the Vietnam War.

        • efoveks

          But never vaccines, and she conflated the two which was just silly. And incredible, as in “not credible”.

          • PH

            I’m not talking about vaccines, but she supports vaccinations. The media just lies. Look at the Snopes page.

          • Serai 1

            Oh, that cute little dodge which completely ignores the fact that she is PANDERING TO THE ANTI-VAXXERS. Right. That’ll REALLY convince us of her OMG INTEGRITY.

            Holy shit, boy, you really need to get better at this.

          • PH

            Better at what?

            Jill isn’t pandering, but she is comforting the skeptics, because there is a lot out there that is terrible for us, and is allowed, sometimes for many years, then we find out that the data suggesting whatever it was is harmful, was collected decades ago, and it was covered up for all of that time.

            There isn’t any evidence that would suggest that vaccines cause autism, or are harmful, but the way pharmaceuticals are handled in this country needs to change.

          • Serai 1

            She’s a fucking DOCTOR encouraging people who believe in stupid unfounded DANGEROUS myths that are causing the return of EPIDEMICS THAT CAN KILL PEOPLE.

            She’s a fucking turncoat who’s betrayed her oath to DO NO HARM. In other words, A HYPOCRITE.

            So go peddle your smug little woo-woo goddess somewhere else, Sparky. Nobody’s buying your snake oil here.

          • PH

            She never any of those things, she is explaining the reason why people have distrust, not that vaccines and the reason why people distrust vaccines are directly related in reality. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnKQJVhIRlk&index=2&list=PLqSpk99bLYITApAudr006C9N5R3XK8Tvj

          • efoveks

            She conflated Monsanto and vaccines.

          • PH

            Did she? Your sources?

          • efoveks
        • Whale Chowder

          Small fact check here: the military utterly misused Agent Orange during Vietnam. If they had handled it correctly and used it in the correct proportions, (some amount of) the subsequent health disasters would have been avoided. Not really Monsanto’s failure there.

          • PH

            Monsanto knew what they signed up for, and they were still involved with selling these kinds of chemicals after the war, along with suppression of science that hurts their marketing.

        • Sir Checkmate

          Technically true, but missing so much context that this is essentially a lie. First off, that was not the same Monsanto. The Monsanto who produced Agent Orange would change their name to Pharmecia, they were a chemical company. The modern Monsanto is a different company that was founded in 2000. Secondly, during the Vietnam war, both components of Agent Orange had been approved for use within the U.S. as well, not merely as a chemical of war. As early as 1952, Monsanto (the chemical company) was informing the government that one of the components was toxic, but the government refused to act on this information.

          You want sources? The first one is simple company history. The second one? Peter Schuck, Harvard University Press, 1987, p. 17.

          • PH

            That was all from transactions. They are largely the same people, and they do the same things as before, enough that the new company shares liability for their activities in the industrial chemical business. What I said has enough context, and is most certainly not a lie. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTi0_ZQtPTY

      • berkeleyfarm

        Oh yeah. Easy to gin up the base if you drop that in. Could be totally unrelated but it will stick.

      • PH

        Yes.

    • jmk

      So… as you ignore context and hold Hillary accountable for policies that were not hers, on the principle that she must be a wholly-owned subsidiary of her husband because she’s a woman, and as you repeat GOP smears and talking points about her…

      …do you still have the fucking crust to consider yourself progressive? Because you’re approximately as progressive as a Klansman from where I sit, cupcake.

      • PH

        Uh, who are you to tell me that I am ignoring context? I said she supported them, she is, after all, known for being one of the first First Ladies that was extremely active in her husband’s presidential career. She spoke out in support of these bills, I didn’t just arbitrarily say she supported these things.

        You say nothing about my criticisms of her SoS record, or her Saudi friends. It just seems like you want an argument

        Let’s play nice.

        These are very progressive, and whoever has a heart’s complaints.

        • jmhm

          Support can mean many different things.

          In the case of Dr. Stein, it means that she pays lip service to ‘her issues.’

          Meanwhile, she’s attempting to put a very, very bad man who will be a disaster for those issues into office in return for a ballot line and federal funding for a next election that may never come.

          • PH

            She hates Trump, are you kidding me? She needs support to get to 15% so she can be on the televised debates for once.

          • jmhm

            Uh, no. She’s campaigning explicitly to take votes away from Clinton.

          • PH

            She is running firstly because she needs to for the Greens to get ballot access in lower offices, she also wants to get on the televised debates, and possibly win. If she gets to 15% in five national polls, she will be on that stage with Donald, Hillary, and possibly Gary Johnson.

          • greenpatches

            Never going to happen.

          • PH

            Not with that attitude, it’s not.

          • Whale Chowder

            Not with that candidate or party structure, it won’t.

          • PH

            If everyone says “Oh, don’t vote for the Green Party, they can’t win.”, then obviously, they won’t win. They have a great candidate, and a fine structure. Is there anything better that the DNC and RNC are offering you? The knowledgeable Julian Assange believes otherwise.

            Do you have any ideas on how to make it better? Maybe you need to watch this first, then the entire interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnKQJVhIRlk&index=2&list=PLqSpk99bLYITApAudr006C9N5R3XK8Tvj

          • Whale Chowder

            Yeah, the DNC offers a candidate who will strive for 90% of what I want, and more importantly, has an actual chance of winning. Not to mention some clue of how to govern once she gets there.

            Your candidate has never been in elective office above town council, her organization flirts with anti-vaxers and woo peddlers, she has no allies in Congress (because THEY WON’T RUN CANDIDATES AT LOWER OFFICES) and most importantly has no shot at winning. Even the Liberations poll higher nationally.

            I admire your idealism but you’re living in fantasyland.

          • PH

            What is the 90% of what you want that the DNC is offering that is not contrary to the DNC candidate’s record?

            Again with the chance of winning. In voting, there is no special “chance” of winning, people have a likelihood to vote for certain candidates, but anyone can win. It just isn’t fair for the Greens because of how the two parties in power black them out of the media, and keep them out of the televised debates, there is always that other candidate they make people fear so much, McCain, Romney, and now Trump. the question is when will the Americans finally get out of this rut?

            The Greens do not flirt with anti-vaccine people or woo peddlers. that is just another birther campaign, because they do not want you to look elsewhere, they do not want Jill to get 15% in the polls and be on the televised debate stage, which they own with the Republicans, they do not even want the Greens to make it to 5% in the election so they will have better funding from the get-go in 2020.

            She can do big things without Congressional approval, but contrary to some myth that Dan Savage recently propagated, which is contradicting his own knowledge that there is recorded evidence of, THE GREENS DO RUN CANDIDATES AT LOWER OFFICES and most importantly they all have a likelihood to flip the vote if Jill Stein gets more big television appearances, and influences people to vote Green.

            What is a “Liberation”?

            The most important thing we can all do is write letters all of our elected officials, most importantly at the state level at this point, to pass ranked-choice voting before the ballots get printed for this November, and get our friends to do the same. Many cities, and some states in our country use this method to vote, especially for the absentee ballots. The presidents of Ireland and India are also voted for in this way.

            You will find all of your elected officials and their contact info here: http://act.commoncause.org/site/PageServer?pagename=sunlight_advocacy_list_page

            It might help to include this link to FairVote in your letters: http://www.fairvote.org/rcv#rcvbenefits

            I admire your pessimism, but you’re supporting a party who more than betrayed the candidate who could have beaten Trump and done great things, you’re living in a rut.

          • PH

            I replied to what you said. Why is my reply gone?

          • jmhm

            Nonsense.

          • PH

            Prove me wrong.

          • jmhm

            There is no reasoned response to a toddler’s tantrum. Kick your heels on the floor while the grownups shop around you.

          • PH

            What tantrum?

        • Serai 1

          She was also the one WHO STARTED THE PUSH TOWARDS UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE. She worked YEARS on it, and was shot down because OMG WOMAN SIT DOWN AND BAKE SOME COOKIES.

          But hey, what’s a little reality when you’ve got a whole boatload of masturbating to do?

          • Shan the Libtart

            Dayum, woman. You’re on FIRE today!

          • Serai 1

            I ran into a fucking Bernie or Bust fathead a couple of days ago. Jesus Christ, RUDE AS FUCK, the little twerp. I’m in a mood for some bitchslapping.

        • jmk

          Can you name a single piece of legislation that she has authored or sponsored that supported any of the crap you’ve claimed she supports?

    • limberrat

      Well, there’s a thing called compromise. I am sorry we didn’t get single payer passed, but Obama had to compromise with reticent moderate Democrats (WE EXIST) and blue dogs in order to pass what he did. Maybe we can progressively keep improving and eventually get universal healthcare when we have a friendlier congress. Then again, we can push bullshit conspiracy theories and throw a temper tantrum that Obama didn’t do enough to create a uber liberal utopia considering the environment he was in.

      • PH

        So to compromise, you take universal healthcare off the platform?

        Obama didn’t even try to enact universal healthcare.

    • msanthropesmr

      There is only one reply for this.

      POOOOOOOOOOP

      • ZangoCrudmonger

        Poopyhead is also allowed.

        • efoveks

          Might I also suggest fartface? It was always a fave in my neighborhood in New York (mid state– hey, we had values too!)

    • harryeagar

      Nothing wrong with Monsanto

      • Roadstergal

        But didn’t you know, Monsanto owns all the “GMOs”, and without Monsanto there would be no genetic modification and all the plants would be… well, kind of terrible to eat, but never mind.

        • jmhm

          Strictly speaking, Mendel bred GMOs. Should we stop eating peas?

          • FrenchFriar

            I did long ago. Join me and be pea
            free.

          • Roadstergal

            Peas on earth, man!

          • efoveks

            So long as I don’t have to eat them! :)

          • Serai 1

            YES. They were the one thing I wouldn’t eat as a kid. Still won’t.

          • jmhm

            but… IP Freely?

          • FrenchFriar

            IP Freely is one of my favorite authors. Coincidence?

          • Roadstergal

            As a biologist, I find it ridiculous to hone in on recombinant DNA technology as somehow being fundamentally different from all of the other strange shite we have done and continue to do in agriculture…

          • Shan the Libtart

            Yes, the GMO part doesn’t bother me (and I’ll give a shout-out to a GF of mine who is a geneticist who helped me with that) so much as the lack of crop diversity.

          • Serai 1

            All those freakishly huge fruits I see in the supermarket? Would never exist.

          • Shan the Libtart

            Broccoliflower scares me, though.

        • AnOuthouse

          GMO is evolution and hybridization on steroids. It allows corporations to patent basic food crops and then sue neighboring farmers when the patented crap inevitably finds its way into their fields, which they have done.. It doesn’t produce unhealthy food but because it short cuts evolution it has a potential for real environmental harm.

          • greenpatches

            Well yeah, the patent stuff is pretty fucking shitty. And we should make sure we have environmental safeguards in place when farming, always. But the whole anti-science part is what most people care about, and it’s stupid.

          • Alan

            You randomly jumped to “environmental harm”. Please explain.

          • Alan

            And, by the way, your other assertion is false. No farmer has ever been sued by Monsanto for inadvertently growing GMO seeds from contamination. https://www.biofortified.org/2015/12/lawsuits-for-inadvertent-contamination/ They have sued for intentional patent infringement and won. A lot.

      • natoslug

        Sounds furrin to me.

    • Rotisserie Teal

      For fucks sake. So, you had a whole bunch of expectations based in no reality that exists in the world and the mean old Dems didn’t live up to them. Boo fucking hoo.
      Please note the root work of ‘progressive’ is PROGRESS. Was progress made on many important issues? (the answer is YES so don’t over think it). Could more progress be made? Yes.
      Which candidate will be more likely to build on that progress if elected?
      (I think you know that one)

      And what will happen to that progress (however small) if Trump is elected and his mouth breathing, science denying idiots control the agenda? Come on, you know the answer to that one as well.

    • natoslug

      Are you low or high? I’ve got a spare 250ml solution powder if you need some balance.

      • Brewerofbeers

        I prefer a bowl of uppers, downers and candy corn

        • natoslug

          I’m all out of candy corn.

          • Brewerofbeers

            Awww.

          • greenpatches

            In my day we didn’t have candy corn in our bowl of uppers and downers, you be grateful fer what ya get.

    • jmhm

      I believe that the Republicans very much plan action. That’s why I’m voting for the Democrat.

      If you support the action the Republicans are planning, you do you.

      • PH

        I do not support either party, that is why I support Jill Stein.

        • greenpatches

          I think you just came up with the perfect slogan for her.

          • Shan the Libtart

            I can’t wait for the bumper stickers!

          • PH

            I think you aren’t contributing anything productive to this discussion.

            If this is how you’re going to be, then good day, sir.

          • “I think you aren’t contributing anything productive to this discussion.”

            The Green Party motto, ladies and gentlemen.

          • PH

            Perhaps to people who only like to argue with other people senselessly?

        • jmhm

          You support Donald Trump’s election. Whatever shiny glass balls you hang off that in your head is of little interest to all the people who will suffer if you get what you want. But hey, you’re first world enough to be able to survive the outcome, so go you and your shiny bodyguard in hell.

          Jesus I’m tired of you idiots.

          • PH

            I will reiterate what I just said, I do not support either party, that is why I support Jill Stein. Whatever shiny glass balls you hang off in your head is of little interest to all the people who will suffer if you get what you want. But hey, you’re first world enough to be able to survive the outcome, so go you and your shiny bodyguard in hell.

            Jesus I’m tired of you idiots who do not understand the fundamentals of reading comprehension.

            Hillary has been the one who caused the refugee crises in Libya and Honduras, then turned around, and deported those refugees whose lives she ruined. She is the one who supported Bill’s mass incarceration bill, unjustly imprisoning many young blacks. She is the one who supported Bill’s welfare reform bill, which kicked many people off of welfare, 70% of those people children, and a lot of minorities. Or were those people jailed or kicked off of welfare those superpredators she was talking about, so it’s okay?

          • jmhm

            Yes, I too can copy and paste. It’s good that we have that common ground.

          • PH

            So you ignore most of it, but choose to respond to only the introduction of my comment.

          • jmhm

            I’m gonna guess that since you have the choice of many things to copy and paste you probably led with your strongest material, which was neither original nor presented compellingly, JMO. So not really digging through this for the pony, no.

          • PH

            I have given out many facts, and you are the one who came to me opposing what I said, you even claimed that I was supporting “the action the Republicans are planning”, which I wasn’t. If facts aren’t compelling enough for you, then I don’t know what to tell you.

            If you want to say i’m wrong, prove me wrong, don’t waste my time.

    • alnnc

      Looks like some of your claims are addressed elsewhere, so L’ll address NAFTA. Manufacturing jobs have been leaving the U.S. since the 1970s. Many higher paying union jobs have moved to southern states, where unions have trouble organizing. You can’t prevent a company from relocating to a lower cost location, and the American public has shown they look at price, not place of manufacture when buying. China and Mexico are seeing the same thing, with companies moving to even lower cost countries. Trump is selling a fantasy if he claims he will get those jobs back.

      • PH

        They left a lot faster through NAFTA, and that is the Clintons’ fault. I really don’t care about what Donald Trump says, he only wants attention, and he still needs to work with Congress for at least most of what he is emphasizing that he wants to do.

    • Serai 1

      http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/Serai/Comment%20pics/jon%20jazzbo%20drums.gif

      Now tell us how the Democrats and the Republicans are exactly the same. *holds up lighter*

    • Serai 1

      Oh, and by the way – Obama NEVER ONCE SAID he was a progressive. That was YOUR mistake. So that, like pretty much all the assumptions you’ve made, is YOUR problem.

      • anna rampage

        the only thing Obama was selling was a big dose of hopie changie from the 8 years of GOP rule that we had just undergone….

        • Serai 1

          The fact that the man could actually speak like an intelligent adult and knew what he was talking about was a huge step forward for the country.

      • PH

        I said supposed to be, meaning the political narrative which is largely written by the mainstream media, and I made no assumptions.

  • Callyson

    He said we needed at least an option for a third party, didn’t we? No! We didn’t!

    And if we had proportional representation or ranked choice voting, a third party might be a good idea. In a winner take all system, it leads to W and Trump FFS…

    • DesertedPictures

      Third parties in first past the post systems are often regional. You can imagine a viable green party in a blue district in california where the GOP has dissapeard. Or a tea party in a district dominated by GOP-conservatives. In effect you would have multiple parties in congress. In reality it would still be a two party system: only the parties would be different, in different districts.

      • malsperanza

        This is almost exactly what we have now. We form coalitions within the two parties prior to the election. (The long primary season is for that purpose.)

        In parliamentary systems the coalition is formed after the election. The only difference is that the factions within each coalition get to have different names. And less money to run their campaigns, of course.

        And the idea of forming a coalition after the election makes some sense when the system is parliamentary, with no division between the Executive and the Parliament. Single party rule means that smaller coalition partners have a bit of leverage, since they can hold the government hostage by threatening to dissolve the coalition and bring it down. Italy used to do that all the time, as did some other European countries.

        But in a system where the executive is not the head of the parliament, and the two may be in opposition, it makes zero sense. Those pesky checks and balances!

    • malsperanza

      But, but, a third party will solve the problem of corruption in the political process by … uh, scaring the other two parties and showing them that they are not the boss. Or. Hang on a sec. Oh, right! It’s like in the UK, where the Lib Dems made it possible for Labor to take power in 2007, ensuring that the Conservatives would be in the wilderness forever after. But anyway, more choices are always good, right? Like when you order coffee at Starbucks.

      • John MV

        The UK and Canada still have winner-take-all voting because of single-member plurality rule districts. They just don’t have it as bad as the US where you have two-round winner-takes-all (first, plurality vote in each state for it’s EVs, and then a majority in the electoral college). With a proportional representation system (instant or actual runoff, rank/score/range voting, single-member districts; or party-list) the Tories would probably have not been able to stay in power like this.

        • malsperanza

          Great! So let’s toss out the Constitution, dissolve the Congress, and turn states into nonsovereign counties. That way we can have a parliamentary representational system as good as the one in Italy. Hey, I’m sold!

  • I have not been paying attention to this shit show. Seems I haven’t missed much.

  • DesertedPictures

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4ZxxHbJGbY

    It’s not easy being green!

    • Serai 1

      I am NOT clicking that. Damn song makes me cry EVERY. FUCKING. TIME.

      • Shan the Libtart

        Oh, good. I thought it was just me.

        • Serai 1

          No indeed, honey. Growing up “weird” and bullied, that song always got to me.

      • Cannedclamscanner

        Seeing that movie was the last thing I got to do with my mom. She loved and had her own Kermie who went to our sister’s wedding in her stead after she died.
        So, no, not clicking either

  • coozledad

    Med school carves the living heart out of some motherfuckers.

  • Brewerofbeers

    Anti science loons are spreading out.

    • Thaag Tidestalker

      Just had a rousing discussion with a well-disguised one on Kinja…about the nature of water, of all things!

      “And if the definition of “water” changes? What if we decide something other than H2O is water?

      Or, if we die out and another species rises up and they call it something else?

      Or, say, some sort of fundamental change in the Universe occurs,
      altering the composition of elements, making it so water is no longer
      H20? Or that fundamental change turns H2O into something else?”

      No kidding, their words quoted verbatim.

      • Brewerofbeers

        I honestly have no idea what to do with that statement, other than send them to the gag-site about dihydrogen monoxide.

        • Thaag Tidestalker

          The word salad upped my fiber intake for the day, that’s for sure.

      • Donkey Option

        Ummm, the spanish call it agua. I mean, we can call anything any word but that doesn’t change its fundamental nature. And you can start calling Diet Coke “water” but everyone will call you a idiot. Which is clearly what the person you were arguing with was.

        • Thaag Tidestalker

          Exactly. I drank what they call “mool” while I lived in Korea and whodathunkit, it was exactly what I call “water”!!!! Somehow, being called “mool” did not instantly transform it into sulfur hexafluoride, strangely.

      • Cannedclamscanner

        Ahhhh, the patience of Yoda you have.

  • jmhm

    Aw, geez. Poor kid. That had to be like walking into a woodchipper.

    Yay for having a mini-vacation somewhere nice, tho.

  • HanBarbara

    I am a bearer of the secret light of Hillary. You shall not pass!

    • Serai 1

      *psst* That would be “flame”.

      I am a servant of the secret fire, wielder of the flame of Hillary. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Stein! YOU SHALL NOT PASS!

      • HanBarbara

        I love LOTR, just could not sit through the 15 hours or so enough times to memorize it. Google and YouTube are my friends.

        • Serai 1

          I didn’t remember it exactly either. Google is how I got the right wording for the speech. :)

  • harryeagar

    You may be investing more psychic energy in her than her political clout really deserves.

    Do I foresee a Stein wave in November? I do not

    • Serai 1

      Seeing as how she isn’t on the ballot in several states, it isn’t even possible for her to win.

  • AngryKatie

    One of the problems with the Greens is that in their extravagantly lengthy meetings, they don’t actually debate truly opposing points of view. Feelings trump facts, and they don’t disagree on anything meaningful. Because everyone is allowed to talk as long as they want, about whatever they want, my sense was that whoever has the most stamina wins.

    So when confronted with an opposing viewpoint, and someone who doesn’t subscribe to the “every opinion is valid, even if it’s based on nonsense” approach to discussion, they’re overwhelmed and either start ranting or run away.

    • Serai 1

      The whole “absolute consensus” thing is completely untenable and ridiculous, but hey. Purity of intention beats actually getting anything done, you know.

      • AngryKatie

        Amen!

      • revenant

        if only people knew some fucking history.
        In the mid-17th century the Parliament (Sejm) of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth passed a voting rule (the “Liberum Veto”) by which any MP could stop any measure from being passed by calling out “Nie potzwallam” (I forbid it). This paralyzed the Polish state, leading to it being dismembered by its neighbors.
        This political strategy has not been widely adopted.

        • Serai 1

          I’m sure that’s exactly how the Greens would like Congress to function.

          • Mehmeisterjr

            Thanks to the baggers, that pretty much is how Congress functions.

      • Cannedclamscanner

        The Quakers have done this very well for hundreds of years. But there is a very clear frame work and for Friends consensus doesnt mean well all agree absolutely but that everyone can, and wil support the decision.. Think of it as the difference between those Bernbots wanting to debate the outcome endlessly and not getting their way so taking their votes home and those Sandera supporters who really want Bernie but say , “OK, we didn’t get Sanders but we had an influence on the platform and the way forward is by supporting and voting for Hillary. Some think it’s about giving up or losingbut it’s not.
        Look up Quaker consensus to get a real idea. Yes, it can be as messy as democracy but not crazy stupid like when there’s no understanding of how it can be done. (I was in one of those other kinds where it took an hour to decide where a bulletin board should go.)

        • Serai 1

          Um, I do know about the Quakers and their concept of consensus. That’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about the “we all must agree absolutely or we won’t do anything”, which is fucking endless and gets nowhere, because they never get there.

    • revenant

      thanks for the warning- sounds exactly like what i expected.

      • AngryKatie

        Imagine public access TV, but to get your 10 minutes (hah, like they would cut someone off after 10 minutes) you only have to manage to show up.

      • hendenburg2

        just like that one grocery Co-op in Brooklyn…

    • Beanz&Berryz

      I had totally forgotten, or blacked them out, but way back before I was a oldz I’d been to meetingz of libz like that. Holy sweet jesus MF… Swamping any attempt to try to do libz goodness in a sea of monologging nutses… Absolutlely no limit on how long one person could go … Empowering every individual to the point of disempowering the whole group. I must have been one of the runnerz.

      • AngryKatie

        I’ve only staged a protest walkout twice in my life because I think it’s a pretty rude thing to do. One was my last Catholic mass when I was a rebellious teen, and the other was my last Green Party meeting.

        • Beanz&Berryz

          My last Catholic Mass was a lovely California morning, a beautiful day. After my younger sisters and I, all of us less than 10 years old, had been squabbling and fighting through the whole proceeding, my Mom, spitting mad, in her best ragey tone, was storming us off to the car… “that’s the LAST goddawm time I take you kids to church, etc. etc.” It was a really nice day.

          • AngryKatie

            That’s pretty much how my dad got out of going. My mom decided she was tired of fighting to make him go, and then trying to get him to behave once he was there.

            I left because the Priest refused to admit to lying from the pulpit. In the middle of his sermon Priest says “all experts agree life begins at conception.” My 13 year old ass looks around to see if anyone is going to call him out, realize no one is, stomp up to the altar, glare at priest, pointedly refuse to genuflect, announce that’s a lie, storm out.

            I was told I would be welcomed back if I apologized for making a scene, I said I’d consider returning if he admitted he was a liar. After that, Dad and I spent Sunday mornings watching football.

          • Cindyinencinitas

            My last mass was when the priest ran through a list of reminders for the congregation on who was disqualified from taking communion – divorce being one of them. I took a few moments to ask Jesus if he really wanted me to stay married to my coke-addicted husband who had left me and stole my wedding ring and some checks from the middle of the checkbook on his way out the door. I thought no, Jesus didn’t want that so I’ll just speak directly to him from now on thank you very much virgin priest, Father Head-Up-His-Ass.

    • Donkey Option

      The one I went to in college was them telling us about all the things that were wrong with the country, and exactly zero on how to fix any of it. I quickly realized that they didn’t have any actual plans, so I noped out of there. I’ve always been way too pragmatic to be a Green Partier.

      • berkeleyfarm

        I was asked why I was not on the social justice committee at my old church (I was running their free meal program so I was sort of a natural choice). My answer was similar to the above. It was the place where people who wanted to talk talk talk and feel superior ended up.

    • Daisy

      Oh, Christ, they don’t use parliamentary procedure at all, do they? I’d lose my fucking mind thirty minutes in.

      • AngryKatie

        Lord no, at least not when I went. It was just people endlessly talking. And you’re not allowed to interrupt, or demean any one’s opinion, because all opinions are equally valuable.

        • Daisy

          *bangs head against nearest wall* I would end up cussing them out or something. Like, I’D BE AN INCOHERENT BALL OF RAGE.

          *ahem* Sorry about that,but fuck, no wonder they aren’t a viable party.

          • AngryKatie

            That’s why I only went to a few meetings.
            If eye rolling were audible I’d have been thrown out of the first one.

    • Hey, do you mind if I share this on my blog, Kate? Too many people only know the Greens by their rhetoric and I think hearing from someone with “insider knowledge” about their methods (or lack thereof) would inspire at least some people to make smarter and more informed political decisions.

      • AngryKatie

        It was a long time ago (mid 90’s), and it was a local GP meeting, but if you think it would be helpful, sure.

        The thing that bothered me most is that they gave equal weight to the opinions of people with actual expertise on a topic and people who just had really strong feelings, but failed to make any factual arguments. It was a bad caricature of leftists come to life.

        They’re earnest folk, and they want good things, but I would encourage anyone considering supporting the Greens to actually attend one of their meetings. It’s hard to imagine how they would actually accomplish their goals.

        • Thanks. Actually your second paragraph is the big reason I wanted to utilize your insightful post. While I DID want to point out a big flaw with The Greeb Party (Since there a timely right now with Stien is kinda making “the rounds” this media cycle with her passive-aggressive “teach-the-controvesy” tactics), I also wanted to to tie into a larger point about the increasing sense of “reduced thought/elevated emotion” that’s been infecting this political season, since I believe a lot of what you said can be applied to, say, Trump voters as well (Indeed his lack of knowledge and strong vulgar impulsiveness has been touted as benefits to his supporters)

          Another toxic idea is that every idea (bizarre or not) has a right to be considered and you just showcased why that shouldn’t be the case (You “elite”, you!)

          • AngryKatie

            An infection of reduced thought/elevated emotion is the perfect description for the the extremes on both ends of the political spectrum. It’s easy enough to discount it on the left because it’s unlikely to result in angry mobs and mayhem, but on the right….

            :)

  • calliecallie

    I am just glad I’m on the same side as Rebecca.

    • Rick Hill

      Today, we are all wearing leather catsuits!

      • Brewerofbeers

        Pics or it didn’t happen.

        • Rick Hill

          For me, it’s best if that’s kept in the metaphorical sense. Not that I couldn’t fit into one, I just don’t have the whatever it is you need to be able to pull that look off.

          • Brewerofbeers

            Damn. Getting my hopes up and all.

          • Rick Hill

            I haven’t got what it takes. You need…That Girl!

          • Shan the Libtart

            I’ll do it!

          • Rick Hill

            You’ll have to audition, though. Let me tell you where to send the pics….

          • Shan the Libtart

            Nah, I think I’ll just get the outfit and see what happens.

          • Rick Hill

            Hnh. You’re no fun…

          • Historicat

            Dude – she’s getting the outfit, so maybe let’s wait and see?

          • Cannedclamscanner

            You might want to wait a few months until it’s cooler or just make sure you do not leave the air conditioned room.

          • Shan the Libtart

            Well, Halloween is coming up…

          • redarmyzombie

            Oh, daddy!

      • Serai 1

        On January 17, ALL AMERICA WILL WEAR A CATSUIT!!!

        • Rick Hill

          Except republicans, who will just knock shit off the table….

          • Invidosa

            I like to imagine them face down on the floor flailing hands and feet in a true full on 2 year olds kind of tantrum. ” But I want the white House” they’ll scream, ” but I waaaaant it!!”

          • revenant

            soon enough, you won’t have to imagine it- that will be our daily reality for the next 4-8 years

          • Serai 1

            SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP

            *runs around spraying Karma B Gone*

          • Serai 1

            IT’S NOT FAIR!!!

          • revenant

            and poop just outside the litter box

          • vivian

            …then scoop copies quantities of sand onto the floor.

          • Invidosa

            Cats are much cuter than Republicans, and better behaved, and more useful, and more clever . . . In fact, I think my Ripley girl is better informed to vote as well . . . Kitties for Hillary!

          • revenant

            no question. it is the cuteness that makes you overlook the furniture-shredding, out-of-the-box pooping and other naughtiness- start to get angry, then look at that adorable little face, and all the mad just washes out of you.

          • Invidosa

            Just for comparison’s sake, wouldn’t you trust this face to pick the prez?https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5df10b58c762b757353ce3078fbde2f1c5b0e9da245c221d367d7d777f8fb435.jpg

          • berkeleyfarm

            TORTIE BELLEH

          • Cindyinencinitas

            Idk, look what she’s done to that poor woodland creature on the left there.

          • Cindyinencinitas

            This kitteh is helping. Something. Not sure what. I think. Hey, it’s not even my kitteh.

      • redarmyzombie

        Trust me, you don’t wanna see me in one; bears and catsuits do *not* mix…

      • calliecallie

        Time for a group photo!

  • Rick Hill

    But your mission was not completed. Our aim to be a virus will not be stopped. You needed to spit and get some in his eyes, at the least. One of us! One of us!

    • Serai 1

      Landru! LANDRU!!!

  • FrenchFriar

    I had one of those types hit my doorstep and my dogs scared him away. I’ll have to get them to be nicer, I suppose.

    • Serai 1

      Unfortunately, I live in a granny unit, and there’s a gate, so types like this never even make it to my door. *haz a sad*

      • badphairy

        Security building FTW!

        • Serai 1

          Oh, I wish they could get to my door. I’ve always liked talking to religious canvassers. They’re so much nicer than the average fundie with a chip on his shoulder that you meet on the street.

    • Jenny

      That’s the bonus of having big dogs. My black pibble has an intimidating bark but settles down and is super nice. My brown pibble acts like Kujo if you ring that damn doorbell. Plus there’s a window she can look out of and act like a maniac towards the person at the door. Greatest deterrent towards solicitors ever.

      • vivian

        I think maybe I am one of your dogs.

        • Jenny

          Don’t make me get my air can!!

      • Jeffery Campbell

        I’m sure I should know, but what is a “pibble.”

        • I’m guessing pit bull?

        • Jenny

          Pit Bull

          • Jeffery Campbell

            Thank you. I’m going to bed smarter than when I awoke. That’s a good day.

    • Jamoche

      Few dogs are nicer than cocker spaniels (unless they’re from the post-Lady and Tramp overbred generation) but a wet cocker spaniel makes a very good Jehovah’s Witness deterrent. It was only her first day of obedience training – which had been in a muddy field – so when she saw new people of course she had to bounce up to greet them. At least it was after the bath.

      • UnsaltedSinner

        A wet cocker spaniel makes a pretty good owner deterrent, as well.

      • SkinlessGenderlessMan

        I was always under the impression that excited cocker spaniels were a self-wetting breed….

  • jmhm

    You’d think that the why it’s a bad idea to recite your talking points to someone who knows better post wouldn’t get this in the comments. I guess not everyone reads past the headlines.

  • Serai 1
  • Wild Cat

    “Something must have happened over Manhattan . . .
    Who can expound all the children this time?
    Could they ever, could they ever
    Expect such a Jill N. Stein, a Jill N. Stein?
    I remember when you were jam-jammin’
    You were better than any of them
    There was never nothing you would ever understand
    But you know who was there to be your master
    Making her demented plans
    She’s always makin’ her plans . . . ”

    (With apologies to the New York Dolls – Frankenstein Lyrics | MetroLyrics )

  • Serai 1

    but instead she had to be so cunty

    HEY!! My naughty bits RESENT THAT!!!

    Aside from that, though, good job! I would have led with the anti-vax stuff, just to take them mickey out of ‘im right off the bat, but we all have our troll-busting styles!

    • Rick Hill

      Yeah, now that, along with Rebecca’s ‘tude, just helped give me a disturbing mental picture. Let’s just say I was influenced by…The Chicken Heart that ate New York!!!!!.

      • revenant

        Ba-bum Ba-bum Ba-bum

  • Relativicus

    Never canvass mama till she’s had her Go-Go Juice. Or while she’s having her Go-Go Juice. And definitely not after.

  • vivian

    Might want to keep the liquor away from the toy dinosaurs…

    Also I had a Jillbot tell me that yes Stein can still win because she can still get 270
    electoral votes. The idiocy is baffling.

    • Jeffery Campbell

      I doubt she has 270 people canvassing for her.

      • berkeleyfarm

        If Lexington does its council elections outside of a presidential year, she may have gotten around 270 *votes*.

    • UnsaltedSinner

      In theory, Jill Stein may win the election. In theory, there might be an invisible troll under my bed. That’s why, in addition to theories, we need to think about probabilities.

      • handyhippie65

        i don’t think they understand the difference between possible, and probable. it is possible that flying monkeys will come shooting out of my ass, but not very probable.

  • Blender_415

    I call them “clipboards.” Where I work in Berkeley, you can’t get 100 feet without running into one of them. They mean well, but 90% of the time I have to explain the basics of the cause they’re supporting (the other 10% of the time I just say, “fuck off, clipboard”). I’m a bad person.

    • berkeleyfarm

      Howdy Neighbor!

      I have gotten very good at dodging them in front of the Cheeseboard though. If any come to visit me in flatlandia I have a “no thanks” schpiel.

  • Toadette

    I never get canvassed except by Witnesses and the guys who want to mow my lawn.

    Need more dumb people to talk to at my door!

    • anna rampage

      I live in a very progressive area of Portland OR and always feel a little bad when the GOP/RNC sends out their canvassers…

      • Invidosa

        They usually don’t even bother in my area. The gop doesn’t even bother to run in most of our local elections cause our country and township is literally Dems and the occasional green from top to bottom. Our local elections are basically between Democrats!

        • Thaag Tidestalker

          Where I live it’s exactly the same, except way into the infra-red.

    • Serai 1

      I used to love it when religious people came to my door. Years ago, one of my favorite things was discussing religion with people I didn’t know. Had some wonderful conversations and learned a lot. *sigh* But that ended right around the mid-80’s. Wingnut fundies started being the ones who wanted to talk about religion, and they got more and more rude and judgmental, and it stopped being fun anymore. *sigh*

      • bbayliss

        The last time a religious zealot darkened my door I asked him if his wife liked sex, what position? etc. He expressed appropriate shock and offense at which point I said, “Sorry, you must feel as though it’s a private matter, that’s how I feel about religion.

  • Bill Slider

    This could have been a good year for the Green party to be green. A sudden surge and a solid base might get attention from the Democratic leadership. After all, Bernie did win two fifths of the delegates. Instead , they grab the antivax flag WTF. Green stands for hurray science. Antivax stands for science is a myth and is fake. There is no ticket for progressive Democrats. The Democratic platform has words, but no voice. Absent a solid voice, the group affected stays home and sits on the couch. Everyone loses..

  • iamnotascientist

    “mendacious nihilist piece of shit”…you know…If you don’t let your true inner feelings out, you’re gonna get sick…

  • Rick Hill

    Perhaps, if you younguns would show up and vote in the midterms….

  • lucidamente

    Lucky for him you didn’t sic Donna Rose on him.

    • Rick Hill

      You don’t know how right you are….

  • “Sadly, he walked away before I could ask him, or laugh at Jill Stein for pandering to anti-vaxxers or never winning elected office higher than Massachusetts dogcatcher”
    1: Yeah, eff a bunch of that anti-vaxxer jive
    2: I thought Maine was where they still elected dogcatchers. I read it right here in Yr Wonkette.

    • JoseAmerica

      Hey, let’s be clear. Jill Stein is not an anti-vaxxer. She just *really* wants anti-vaxxers to vote for her.

      • berkeleyfarm

        I know her followers throw “pandering” out a lot when someone else does it, but I’m also quite sure they have some mental “irregular verb” construction going on for “it’s different when we do it”.

  • MississippiLefty

    There’s no difference between Democrats and Republicans? I guess that’s why quality of life, education, economic, and health measures are just as good here in Mississippi as they are in California or Massachusetts! Want to see what it would be like to live in Trump’s America? We have a guestroom, come see. The idea of a Green Party canvasser is so charming to me, esp. since this weekend, several of my neighbors received a leaflet from the KKK. Yes, the KKK.

    • Thaag Tidestalker

      Well, y’all in MS *do* have a higher rate of vaccination than CA, because no wimpy religious exemptions. d-(^^)z You’re doing a few things right.

      • MississippiLefty

        Let me also say that the neighbors who received the KKK leaflet were horrified and called the cops to report it. So, yeah, we’re doing a couple of things right down here.

      • Bemused

        No religious exemptions in CA any more either. If you want your kid in school, better vaccinate. (there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth up here in Nor. Cal.)

    • UncleTravelingMatt

      The contrast between Washington and Idaho is pretty neat. Less so now that I know I’m moving to Idaho, but still . . .

    • Jamoche

      The odds of me (Silicon Valley software engineer) telling my stepdad (Texas FNG) that it’s not my fault his state decided to opt out of the recovery at some point during the upcoming family reunion/meet my first nephew is very high. Yes, 8 years ago, when he was out here looking at vacant buildings and saying that it would be 4 years before it could get better (and I was biting my tongue) Texas and CA may have looked alike. Now the only vacant building is the local Sears, and that’s an entirely different rant.

  • Rick Hill

    We need these kids to vote more responsibly

    • bbayliss

      What is with this guy? He’s abused his body at least as much as I have and I’m One stroke and two heart attacks down.

      • Whale Chowder

        He has the “Deal with the Devil” healthcare plan.

      • proudgrampa

        I think it’s the alcohol that keeps the blood from freezing up…

        Not that I know anything about that…

  • hendenburg2

    one thing I like to point out to people who want third parties is how much chaos it would bring to the electoral system. Once one side of the political spectrum starts splitting votes, the other side will automatically win. And then if both sides have their own minor parties, you have to start having runoffs in almost every race to reach majority. On top of that, I don’t seem to remember if there any provision in the Constitution if the Electoral College can’t reach a majority vote, though I seem to remember someone positing that the decision would get kicked to the House.

    • Serai 1

      PFFFT!! You and your Earth Logic!

      • hendenburg2

        I dunno… “Earth Logic” sounds like something Volpe will soon be writing about

    • Enfant Terrible

      If the Electoral College is tied, the election goes to the House of Representatives.

      Fun!

      • proudgrampa

        Worst nightmares ever from that scenario.

    • Donkey Option

      I would be okay with it if the crazy religious right and the economic conservatives split, since it would be splitting their votes. But I’m entirely and completely and proudly biased about that.

    • JoseAmerica

      Yup, 22nd Amendment kicks the decision to the gerrymandered House. Which is what we all want.

    • proudgrampa

      Check out some of the democracies that run this way. Israel is a good example. The become absolutely dysfunctional.

  • Enfant Terrible

    Three-hour Green Party meetings? Tell me about it. I remember anti-Vietnam-war meetings that would get bogged down in interminable arguments about socialist economic theory.

  • UnsaltedSinner

    “So much of leftwing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don’t even know that fire is hot.”

    George Orwell

  • Mavenmaven

    Jill Stein should pair up with Gary Johnson and they both disappear.

    • Blendawendy

      What a couple of major asshats. They deserve each other.

    • Serai 1

      Like matter and antimatter cancelling each other out? Sounds good to me.

  • chascates

    Once you can get the moneys to that asshole guy who’s selling you the house you’ll feel lots better and you can hang out on your own lawn. And also too Hillary is 7 points of Cheeto Jesus in today’s CBS poll.

  • Yr. Gma

    Homelessness becomes you.

  • bbayliss

    Yeah,fuck jill stein, and not in the good, fun way.

  • You really should not call women cunts. Its a sexist term.

    • bbayliss

      Unless you’re Australian, then it’s a general purpose term for anyone being cunty.

      • Shan the Libtart

        Or Irish, in which case it’s a term of endearment.

        • bbayliss

          As it should be.

        • Rick Hill

          I thought it was more a term of negative endearment. “You cant!’

    • Cindyinencinitas

      Unless you’re a woman. Then you can call other women cunts. It’s the prerogative of members of an oppressed class to have and use a specialized vernacular amongst themselves that is, in part, a coping mechanism. But thanks for your concern.

      • No its not. And fu*k you for the concern comment. I’m a liberal. You are not privileged.

        • Cindyinencinitas

          I didn’t mean to insult you and I certainly didn’t mean to trigger you with the “concern” bit. I’m a liberal too and I’m a woman but if you want to fight over this, tell Gwyneth Paltrow.

        • Serai 1

          Fuck off, hipster boy. Don’t try to teach your grandma to suck eggs.

          Fucking entitled brats, I swear.

    • handyhippie65

      so, i shouldn’t call donnie the dumpster fire a prick? too late.

    • Serai 1

      http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/Serai/Comment%20pics/NiceBigStraw.jpg

      I’ve been a feminist for fourty years, and Rebecca and her cohorts show far more respect for women than you do with your sniffy condescension. Please take your mansplaining elsewhere, Sparky. Kthxbi.

  • Celtic_Gnome

    Canvassers always seem to want to talk to fellow true believers who won’t challenge any of their preconceived notions. Of course he took off down the street the moment you challenged him.

    • Karen Marie

      This was the first time he’s ever talked to a pro-Hillary family because few people will talk to him. They hear “Jill Stein” and slam the door in his face.

    • malsperanza

      No, that’s what you’re supposed to do. In fact, it sounds like he didn’t leave fast enough. Never argue when you’re canvassing; that’s not the purpose of it.

  • BrianW

    I think that I would not want our Editrix mad at me. I’m afraid she might come down here and rip my heart out with a spoon!

    • proudgrampa

      I’ve told this story before.

      When I met Rebecca for the first time and introduced myself, she said, “So how the fuck are you, proudgrampa?”

      It was love at first sight.

      And I would definitely NOT want her mad at me.

      • BrianW

        That is the type of welcome I would like, too. Unfortunately, the chances of my going to Montana are slim to none, and I can’t think of ONE reason she and her family would want to come to Texas.

  • SullivanSt

    I mean, say what you will about the tenets of National Trumpism, at least it’s an ethos.

    • JustDon’tSayDittos

      Fuck it, let’s go bowling.

      • proudgrampa

        Play a round of golf? Anyone?

      • handyhippie65

        the dude for prez. i’d vote for him.

    • Mehmeisterjr

      Trump made the subways run on time.

  • SullivanSt

    This reminds me of the time I most admired my father.

    A Conservative Party canvasser knocked on the door and asked if he would be interested in voting for their candidate. His reply: “I would consider it, but I’m afraid my right arm would shrivel up and fall off.”

    I believe that was pretty much the end of the conversation right there.

  • Grizz1y

    Yet more evidence of why we all love our Editrix.

  • tihond

    She’s no Harambe.

  • H Rivera

    I respect your family’s decision to vote for HRC, even though I will not vote for her. It is also good to know that the money I send to the Green Party is being put to good use. The canvasser, IMHO, did the right thing by walking away being you are not an undecided voter or someone planning to sit out the election. Thank you for covering Jill Stein.

  • Whale Chowder

    I just finished sending off a letter to Kshama Sawant, our Socialist Seattle City Council member, who is urging her Bernie-or-Bust supporters to vote for Jill Stein for president.

    An excerpt (after I explained how poor a choice Stein and the Greens are):

    So what are you trying to achieve by diverting people to her campaign? The practical effect is that you are encouraging people to throw away their vote. Your “protest” votes will have at best no effect on the presidential race’s outcome; at worst you will help throw the election to the Trump campaign.

    Allow me to remind you: the Republicans with Trump at their head are *actually different* than the Democrats. I encourage you to read their respective platforms in case you are unclear on this. With a Clinton presidency and (with a bit of luck) a Democratic Senate you’ll get 75% of what you are looking for and at least the level of progress that has been occurring under the Obama administration. With a Trump presidency, you will get *nothing*. You will most hurt the people you purport to advocate for, with the economic, military and environmental damage a Trump presidency would create.

    Your position is incredibly foolish. You might argue that “Washington is a blue state and a protest vote won’t hurt Clinton,” which is hypocritical — “she’s just like Trump!’ — and dangerous. As an example, look at the Brexit vote and the people who voted out as a protest, only to find out they had won.

    The selfishness and short-sightedness you exhibit by taking this position will forever cause me to look at any position or statement you take in the future with great skepticism and although I don’t vote in your region, I will certainly work to fund and elect any other viable candidate who runs against you in the future.

    You are, in fact, too stupid to remain a City council member.

    No love at all,

    • lroom

      That’s pretty damn good!

    • Gregory Brown

      Huzzah!

    • feministing

      holy hell that is a brilliantly succinct letter of rage. next time i rage and words fail me, i’m gonna hire you, ok?

      • Whale Chowder

        I sort of have to be feeling it to come up with something like that but I’m willing to try!

    • Jukesgrrl

      Impressive!

    • Serai 1

      If that were me, that last personal insult would probably negate the effect of almost everything you’ve said. Name-calling won’t win you an argument, no matter how good it is. It’ll only piss off the person you’re talking to, making it that much less likely they’ll listen. If all you want to do is rage, then it’s great. If you were actually trying to convince this person, that may have cancelled out your effort.

    • Amalga

      All the up votes for this!

    • SeeTrain65

      “I wrote a letter to my MP. It said, ‘Dear dickhead, you’re a wanker.’ … I never heard back.” – Hugh Laurie

      • thenearesthippie

        Hugh Laurie is awesome!

    • Whale Chowder

      Self-replying to link the article that drove this. Somebody cautioned me that I wouldn’t be able to persuade her if I called her stupid. She is already unpersuadable.

      http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/want-trump-to-win-listen-to-kshama-sawant/

  • The Magic Christian

    Jill Stein is smug jackass

  • IdRatherBeDancing

    I’ve wanted to call her a cunt for some time (but stuck with tedious woman), but now I fee I have permission. I hate this battleaxe.

    • Serai 1

      Women’s naughty bits everywhere will thank you not to compare them with this hot mess of hypocrisy and lube, thank you.

  • So, both major parties are the same, except for the Democrats support everything the Green Party supports, but Democrats are bad because something something Hillary Clinton? That’s a really cogent political argument.

  • berkeleyfarm

    Not surprised that the true believe concern trolls have found us here, given what the last thread got.

    So, I had thought Stein was from Cambridge MA but she’s from Lexington? Her whole gummint experience is being on the town council in a town of about 13,000 people? With the way turnout is sometimes for local elections, “270” might have been the number of votes she got! (Especially if they have district/ward elections.)

    • King of America

      That’s still way more experience than Trump has, to be fair.

      • Mehmeisterjr

        Trump has far more experience cheating on wives. Experience Counts!

    • Beaumarchais?

      Lexington is perhaps the most liberal suburb of Boston, and they’re sick of her.

      • berkeleyfarm

        Interesting. When is she up next?

  • Gregory Brown

    Stop beating around the bush, r editrix, and tell us what you really think! But seriously, I cannot look at that picture of her, with that smug, self-satisfied smirk on her face, for more than a few seconds before I feel the urge to gnash my teeth and rend my garments. It maketh me wroth.

  • Cindyinencinitas

    Glad to see you’re back in the saddle, Trix.

  • M3D1T8R

    Trash.

    • King of America

      I see from your posting history that you’re too self-important to vote for Clinton. Why should we care about your dumb opinion exactly?

    • Serai 1
    • SeeTrain65

      It’s outside by the garage. Feel free to jump in.

    • Callyson

      Thank you for your insightful contribution to our political discourse.

      • M3D1T8R

        You’re welcome! I try to do my small part when I can. Glad to know it’s appreciated.

        • Callyson

          (cough) You might want to check your sarcasm meter (cough)

          • M3D1T8R

            Oh no, you misunderstand. I realized you were being sarcastic, but I simply choose to not stoop to that level of toxic communication online. Instead I just respond as if the person is n fact not being toxic/sarcastic, thus doing my part to a) expose the toxic player for what they are, and b) move past such useless banter and in a small way force the conversation to a better place.

            Glad it worked!

          • Callyson

            Yes, you moved the conversation to a better place by declaring it to be trash! PS: I understand your trolling perfectly, which did not work, TYVM.

          • M3D1T8R

            Oh, you’re confused. I never declared any of the conversation to be trash. (The article, yes.)

            Typical troll speak: The one who _refuses_ to engage in toxic communication is the troll.

          • Sir Checkmate

            In this guy’s logic: Comes onto our website, calls us trolls. Yes, that’s how it works.

          • M3D1T8R

            I believe you’re mistaken: I’ve only referenced one (singular) poster on here as trolling.

            Yes I am new to this site (Google algorithms seem to have brought me here, rather unfortunately, as it seems), but forgive me if in being new I don’t know who the site belongs to. Regardless, with open comments one would think the site is open to public participation in the discussion.

            In any case, your attempt at including yourself with some group that you feel I’ve offended so that you may try to increase the size of the offense – there must be a word for that, but I’m too tired right now. It’s not good, I’m sure.

  • Harbinger08

    The thing about the Greens is not where they usually come down on the issues, which is pretty okay. It’s that they totally suck at politics, they are just terrible at it. And frankly they are obnoxious and people don’t like them. Even in a country with so many cynically disaffected the last go ’round Stein only got 1/3 of a percent. That’s 0.003 of the vote. It’s almost impossible to ask Americans about literally anything and get numbers that low. If you asked random people if we should set fire to the oceans or if they would like to get hit in the mouth with a brick next Thursday if it was going to be on TV you would get numbers higher than that.

    • proudgrampa

      Well, you hit the nail on the hammer. Greens suck at politics and are obnoxious. I agree with a lot of their positions (I’m NOT an anti-vaxxer, though), but they are such assholes, I couldn’t work with them.

      • Thing is, every single one of their good positions can be found within the Democrats’ progressive wing. There’s literally no reason to vote for the Greens when you have people like Liz Warren happily yanking the D’s to the left. The only reason to vote Green at this point is if you’re a pyro who wants to watch the world burn, or if you want to maintain political hipster cred by not ever voting for a “mainstream” party.

    • mailman27

      So, that whole brick-in-the-mouth thing… would that be prime time Thursday night? Asking for a friend.

    • Adam Infanticide

      Sure, there are plenty of Greens who are ignorant hippies that play bongo drums after the farmers market and say obnoxious things like “wake up, sheeple!” but are you seriously gonna argue that they’re more ignorant & obnoxious than your average faithful Republican or Democrat, especially after this primary?

      • Harbinger08

        No, actually most of the ones I’ve known are smart and try to be well-informed, even though they can sometimes embrace favorite conspiracy theories with as much fervor as any Truther or Birther. As I said I am mostly aligned on issues. I’m just pointing out the obvious reality that for whatever reasons they don’t seem to be gathering the wide support they would have to have to have any political leverage. They can’t even get close to the 5% they have been working towards for years that would get the party some Federal funding. Success in politics is based on building a bigger coalition of voters than those who oppose on the other side. The Greens don’t seem to have the slightest interest in doing that, and prefer bickering and splitting to forming alliances. Stein is a joke. She in no way is capable of actually guiding our current system of government, so the whole thing is just an indulgence of vanity, by her and her supporters.

  • tegrat

    It would appear, then, that you have no love for Jill Stein. Get in line!

  • JerryRich

    In the 2000 election, Ralph Nader got 2,882,955 popular votes, or 2.74 percent. It’s very difficult to believe that Dr. Stein will approach this total (enough to mess up a close state). Gary Johnson will get more votes, coming mostly from Republicans (I think).

  • whitroth

    What aggravates me is that there is *no* real socialist party in the US. They’re all jokes and debating societies.

    This past spring, I was at an event in DC. We got to meet their presidential candidate… WHO WAS 29! “But it allows us to make a stance…” I managed not to say that it was bs….

    Like Bernie says, RUN FOR OFFICE. Run for city council, and county council and state office… for real. And win occasionally.

    *Then*, and not until then, will I believe you’re for real.

    • JustDon’tSayDittos

      RUN FOR OFFICE YOU CAN ACTUALLY WIN AND THAT YOU ARE LEGALLY QUALIFIED TO TAKE. ffs.

      ftfy

      • Serai 1

        And run for it SERIOUSLY, enough with the “everyone’s a winner” crap. DO IT LIKE YOU ACTUALLY WANT TO WIN.

  • proudgrampa

    Ah, Rebecca. I wish you were moving into my neighborhood.

  • KBadger

    We DO have an option for a third party – it’s called being an Independent. I’ve never been an “official” member of any political party. Just happens I mostly agree with Democrats, except for that one time I had a mad at Jimmy Carter and voted for John Anderson. I’ve always felt personally responsible for Reagan’s two terms in office. And that is what I would like anyone (I’m looking at you, Bernie Bros) saying they’ll vote for the Green Party to consider. Seriously, guys.

    • Serai 1

      except for that one time I had a mad at Jimmy Carter and voted for John Anderson.

      Oh, so this is all YOUR fault! ;)

      (I had a friend in ’80 who infuriated me with his “making a statement” crap.)

      • berkeleyfarm

        I gave myself crap about that for a while, but after I was able to look things up on the interwebz I figured that it really just didn’t matter – especially in California, where I was voting.

        It cured me of statement-making in anything but the primary though.

        • Serai 1

          Yep, that’s what the primary is for. Glad you took the lesson to heart. :)

    • theblackdog

      The problem with that is in closed primary states where one political party tends to dominate, the primary election is usually the time you get to “elect” who will be the person to fill the position. It’s the only reason I declare for the Democrats here is because otherwise I basically don’t get to have much of a say in who gets elected when the general election rolls around

  • Ulricii

    Enough of the sugar coating. Tell us how you REALLY feel about Jill Stein.

  • King of America

    Oh wow, I just found out that Stein thinks wi-fi gives people brain cancer:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGQjaSJP2Xg

    FOR WHAT IT IS WORTH this has been 1) thoroughly tested and 2) wi-fi signals are way lower power than (e.g.) cellular phone signals, which have been around long enough that if they caused brain cancer we should be seeing the results – more people getting brain cancer – right now (spoiler: we aren’t).

    • berkeleyfarm

      She went full woo. You never go full woo.

  • I was going to save this little tidbit for personal blog commentary and this fun, festive, invigorating site, http://twoplustwoequals7.blogspot.com (sorry, but I don’t have a sex tape or butt-selfie to “accidentally” release so I have to rely on good ol’ fashioned self-promotion) but I decided to give you an early Christmas present, ‘beca (with the good hair) so have seeing Dan Savage do Da Mic Drop of epic proportions on the Green Party.

    http://www.thestranger.com/slog/2016/07/19/24362128/dan-savage-on-jill-stein-just-no

    There, that oughta be a nice pick-me-up

  • handyhippie65

    that sounds like my conversations with the jehova’s witnesses. i once had a newbie starting to question his belief, just before his training handler came to his rescue and told him they had other places to visit. missed by that much.

    • dshwa

      They never stop by my house. Neither do the Mormons. I keep wondering if there’s a map thy all share with a big red “X” over certain addresses.

      • handyhippie65

        there is a temple a couple, three miles from my house. they don’t stop by like they used to after that happened. i guess i earned my X.

  • feministing

    whew. so glad we can all agree jill is fucking awful.

  • ancientmai
  • Sheket Bevaka Shut The Hell Up

    I do not have enough applause gifs for this post.

  • Iam Reading

    Please come to Boise. My wife and I want to give you all the liquors. You deserve them.

  • Christopher Pare

    You’re an idiot. Hillary wasnt for those things until Bernie forced it on her. In addition, she would still be supporting the TPP if the Unions didn’t tell her they wouldn’t support her if she supported the TPP.

    That is your candidate! Someone who gives up her stance on issues to appease others.

    In addition, trying to spread around that third party candidates are useless only makes us less of a democratic society. The option to vote for a third party without having morons (like yourself) put them down and act like they are throwing away their vote is democracy at its finest. It’s too bad their are morons like you who are blatantly uneducated on the matter and uninformed on how truly corrupt Hillary is. Spreading nonsense like this with your ridiculous story and childish name calling shows your intelligence level. And it’s not high!

    • King of America

      Almost all of Clinton’s positions are identical to those in her 2008 run. Sanders accomplished almost nothing except to demonstrate that you can no longer win the Democratic nomination if you ignore minorities.

      I hope that helps, angry dude!

    • King of America

      Also, even if your spittle-flecked post was remotely true, IT WOULD NOT JUSTIFY SUPPORTING AN ANTI-VAXXER, even if voting for that anti-vaxxer wasn’t directly aiding an actual fucking fascist.

      • Christopher Pare

        Did I say I supported her?

        I’m saying when someone writes about it being a waste to vote for a third party, it goes against democracy.

        Not once did I say I support Jill Stein on anything.

        With that, I don’t have time to argue with someone who cannot even read my post but is fine commenting on something I never even said.

        Some people got jobs and are not homeless like this foolish author.

        • King of America

          It is absolutely a waste to vote for a third party.

          • Christopher Pare

            Your ignorance shows….

            It’s sad when most registered voters cannot stand either candidate but have them shoved down their throat because the assumption is “It’s a waste to vote for a third party.”

            This nation is supposed to be an example to others of how well democracy works. Instead you got people criticizing others if they choose to vote for a third party.

            The only reason a third party will never get elected is because of people like you. No one in this nation should feel forced to vote for a candidate they don’t approve of. That’s what it’s degraded to…

            Too bad…

          • King of America

            OK good luck with your campaign to screech at people on topics you’re completely clueless about. I’ll follow your career with great interest.

          • Christopher Pare

            It’s obvious only one of us is clueless. It’s the fool who had nothing of intelligence to say so he went after up voting. LOL.

            Go to bed kid.

          • King of America

            OK. Remember to brush your teeth – I imagine the taste of Koch cock is quite unpleasant.

          • Christopher Pare

            Awwww, don’t get mad cause I see how obvious it is that you are a sausage sampler. Hey, it’s okay. The Democratic party has historically supported gays. That’s the one thing Hillary didn’t have to take from Bernie.

            I know it hurts. With a name like “King of America” It’s obvious your ego is huge. But just think, you’ve taken larger loads than that and on a daily basis. It’s no problem little man.

          • King of America

            Oh, I thought you’d Left Forever™ after self-righteously informing us we weren’t as ideologically pure as you, a guy who is supporting Donald Trump. Weird.

          • Christopher Pare

            Oh, I support Trump now?

            Putting words in people’s mouths doesn’t make you sound intelligent.

            Just because you enjoy getting things put in your mouth doesn’t mean it’s the thing to do.

            LOL. The genius who tried saying Bernie got nothing adopted by the Clinton campaign is trying to act smart. It’s like watching a retard try to eat a doughnut with chopsticks, lol.

          • King of America

            Yes, I do understand that you think you aren’t supporting Trump. You are, though, and your critical ignorance is no excuse.

            Also, that abuse at the end isn’t particularly progressive. Weird.

          • Christopher Pare

            How is that, hmm?

            If you did your research you’d know that typical supporters of Johnson hurt Trump because it’s usually a Republican vote whereas typical supporters of Stein hurt Clinton. I never stated who I was supporting, so once again you got your foot in your mouth.

          • Christopher Pare

            Come on… I don’t have all night…

          • Be Gin

            “Some people got jobs…”

            Tee-Hee!

            Live with it!

            ;>)

          • Be Gin

            As one gnat-bite troll once said: “Some people got jobs…”

          • Serai 1
          • thenearesthippie

            Pull harder.

          • King of America

            You didn’t! On the other hand, even though you were pretending to be against Hillary because she wasn’t liberal enough, you went and called me a gay retard, so I think – I just think! – I can take a guess. I dunno how I saw through your disguise, frankly.

          • Christopher Pare

            I know. Quite a disguise huh?

            So that must mean you support Trump too huh? Because your “Koch” comment makes the same assumption.

            Another strong argument

          • King of America

            Incomprehensible gibberish. Anyway, this is boring and pedestrian trolling – I was hoping you’d do better, but there’s no way you’ll make DSFB. Later!

          • Christopher Pare

            Ahhh, now it’s gibberish because I caught your hypocritical nonsense.

            Don’t worry, I’ve debated better than you.

            It’s no shame in losing to a highly educated individual.

            Good night sugar jugs

          • Be Gin

            Debate? You call this “debate” when your first sentence at the top is “You’re an idiot.”?

            You have no “debate”.

            You have no skill.

            You do have “Some people got jobs…”

            You’ll always have that.

          • Serai 1
          • Serai 1
          • Serai 1
          • Serai 1
          • Be Gin

            Dude! King of America is way ahead on points now!

            I think you better play the “You homo!” card quick!

          • King of America

            He’s right about my ego, though. It’s the best ego.

          • Invidosa

            Yes . . . But is it HUUUUUGE?

          • Invidosa

            Its just gorgeous how you try to present what you claim is a rational argument (complete with the waving the “HOLY FUCKERZ TPP!!! TPP GODDAM IT” flag). . .

            And then top it off with homophobic accusations. Somebody skip their lithium this week kitten?

          • Invidosa

            Also too, what do you have against sausages? Is this some weird fixation of yours? Something kinky perhaps??! Did a sausage murder your mother? Inquiring minds want to know!

          • Callyson

            The lefter-than-thou troll is a homophobe? Why, I’m just shocked!

          • thenearesthippie

            Perhaps we should introduce him to Turgid Love Muscle.

          • dshwa

            Wonkette’s new Troll Power Couple.

          • Serai 1
          • Be Gin

            Ouch!

          • Callyson

            Good evening ShyPixel–this troll is giving us some good material for this Sunday’s Deleted Commenters post!

          • Serai 1
          • Panika MCD

            you’re including all voters in states which don’t register party affiliation including Vermont and Texas, stupid.

          • Serai 1

            He can’t leave. They never can.

          • gaist

            I’m saying when someone writes about it being a waste to vote for a third party, it goes against democracy.

            […]

            “The only reason a third party will never get elected is because of people like you.”

            Aren’t you the one ruining democracy now?

          • Brian

            dude, what are you even saying? The vast majority of registered Democrats eagerly support Hillary Clinton. The Republicans, on the other hand, actively despise their candidate but will vote for him because they can never vote Democrat and they believe claims against Hillary that have been proven to be untrue.
            The GOP does not believe in innocent until proven guilty, they believe in innocent until proven Clinton. So don’t fucking blame Democrats for bad Democracy.
            And you know what county is the great example of Democracy?
            Australia! Australia has laws which punish people for not voting. In the US we have a party whose goal is to prevent people from voting. That party is not the Democrats it is the Republicans!!

            The only reason a third party won’t get elected is because the pro-life republicans who hate damn homos but aren’t fuck ass racists will vote for anybody who promotes unwanted babies and gay killing, plus Guns!!!
            Democrats do not hinder a 3rd party. We are more than happy to vote for our candidate, it’s the Fuck Ass GOP who are all going to vote for their guy who they have called racist, homophobe, ignorant of the constitution, dangerous on foriegn policy, and who insults our vets.
            Go fucking whine for them to live up to their ideals, leave us alone.

        • King of America

          Also, stop upvoting your own posts. It’s weird and vaguely gross. Probably unhygienic.

          • Christopher Pare

            Uhhh, you’re doing the same thing moron, lol.

            Why don’t you go get educated? Critical thinking skills are obviously missing from your thought process.

            It’s pretty obvious you got nothing of intelligence to say since you resorted to attacking me up voting like a child. Lol.

            I’m definitely not desperate enough to resort to low means of argument as you are. But when given, you give back.

            I’m sure you’re familiar with this notion since your love of sausages is obvious.

            Good night.

          • King of America

            … where have I upvoted myself? Are you high? Anyway, good night – Donald Trump thanks you for your ardent support.

          • Invidosa

            But you didn’t answer the most pertinent question sweet one, do you in fact like sausages? If the shit weasel is making spurious claims as to your dining habits I would like to know so I may valiantly come to your defense, your dominatrix in shining leather as it were!!

          • King of America

            I’m mostly sausage-neutral.

          • King of America

            IS IT TOO LATE TO INVENT THE WORD SAUSAGNOSTIC?

          • Invidosa

            . . . It is most definitely not. Consider it so coined!!

          • thenearesthippie

            C’mon, everybody’s upvoted themselves at least once. It’s perfectly natural and nothing to be ashamed of. Unless it becomes compulsive, as in the case of Dull Troll here.

          • thenearesthippie

            Seriously, though, why do you self-upvoters upvote yourselves? I mean, even with all of your self-upvoting, you still have fewer upvotes than comments. Sad.

          • Serai 1
        • Be Gin

          “Some people got jobs…”

          You are sooooooo cute! ;>)

        • Callyson

          Ha ha ha…this author happens to be the owner of Wonkette. As in, she does not have a “job,” she has a business TYVM…

        • Daisy

          I wasn’t aware that exercising the First Amendment to free speech (which includes calling someone an idiot) was against democracy.

        • Biff52

          As the Republicans are always more than happy to point out, “it’s not a Democracy, it’s a Republic!” Grrr!

          Also: Upvoting your own comment? Poor form.

        • Panika MCD

          oh, so you support the guy who wants to do away with the DOE? greaaaat! that plays real well ’round these parts.

        • Serai 1

          Oh, so as usual, you’re just trolling to be a troll. Jesus, don’t you ever get tired of that shit?

    • nmmagyar

      Do NOT talk shit about Trix! Her supporters are legion. And snarky as fuck. And better looking than you.

    • Be Gin

      Your puny name calling amuses real trolls. I sneer at your tiny troll-craft. You couldn’t warm a gnats gonads with your “burn”.

    • Erick the Kracker

      If you are going to impugn the education of darling Rebecca, I suggest you learn to distinguish between “their” (the possesive pronoun) and “there” (the adverb). Then again you could just fuck off.

    • Callyson

      clean energy, money out of politics, healthcare as a human right — and they were all things Democrats are for!

      1. Hillary came out for clean energy in 2005, well before Bernie’s campaign got rolling.

      2. She came out in favor of reversing Citizens United back in January, well before Sanders posed a potential threat to her getting the nomination (and no, Iowa does not count–just ask GOP nominee Ted Cruz.)

      3. Do I even have to link to the fact that she was for a national health care plan in the ’90’s? Fine.

      And OMG! She looked at the final details of TPP and decided the critics of that plan were right!! The horror!!!

      PS: if we had proportional representation or ranked choice voting, your support of third party candidates would make sense. In the absence of these institutions, third parties are beside the point in a winner take all system. If you are not aware of this fact, it is your intelligence level that is low FFS.

    • puipui

      You sound like an asshole.

      • Invidosa

        Sweet and to the point! Well done luvvie!!

      • Serai 1

        He’s a Salon bot. I’ve seen his name there before. Long time troll.

        • puipui

          Well, that explains some things!

          • Serai 1

            Do you post elsewhere? I only say because your handle sounds familiar.

          • puipui

            Not really? Unless you’re familiar with JournalFen from back when their old server was still online. This is about the only place where I comment semi-regularly anymore, and definitely the only political site since everywhere is else i mostly a shitshow, alas.

          • Serai 1

            YES!!! GodDAMN, I knew I’d seen your handle and that pic before. I used to post at Fandom Wank way back in the day. (Still have fond memories of CrystalWank.) I was sorry to see it go – there was some crazy shit going on over there at times.

          • puipui

            OMG CrystalWank! Good times! :D

            I miss Fandom Wank so much. I’m so happy to run into someone else from there!

          • Serai 1

            So do I. It was so much fun. (Although honestly, there was wank to spare in the community itself sometimes.)

        • WomanInAMood

          Ahhhh….

        • theCryptofishist

          Me troll you longtime?

    • berkeleyfarm

      “I know you are but what am I?”

    • Panika MCD

      HRC’s been working on universal healthcare longer than anyone who filed for president this year; supported the process, not the results of TPP (don’t know what kind of a diplomatic process you think would have worked better with your ever so overworked brain); and had a better debt-free college plan before Bernie fucked it all up with his nonsensical school voucher bullshit. and we’re not putting down third parties (though the Greens might consider aiming much farther down the ballot if they ever want a shot), we’re putting down pandering to anti-vaxxers–which Dr. Jilly here did in addition to saying that wi-fi will melt your brain. maybe quit yelling at people who don’t blindly conform to your views and read more.

    • Serai 1
    • doktorzoom

      Welcome to Wonkette. You may not find you like it here a heck of a lot. But calling a blog’s editor an idiot is ALWAYS a great way to win people over to your position!

      — Dok Zoom, Yr Friendly Neighborhood Comments Moderator

      • Sir Checkmate

        Hey Dok, if you’re still here, there’s another guy both upstairs and downstairs who’s basically just wanting to start shit.

        Edit: Username begins with M, then it’s a bunch of letters and numbers. Had an awful day, so not particularly interested in checking it more closely.

        • M3D1T8R

          Why do I have the strongest feeling that you’re referring to myself, despite “starting shit” being the last thing I’m interested in. Finishing it, yes please.

        • doktorzoom

          Yeah, they look like a one time driveby, so won’t bother with ’em anymore.

  • m3bosha

    Good. It’s like the damn door to door sales peeps. Girl scout? Yes, cookies please. Random dude/chick? Can I come into your house and demonstrate a “new cleaning method”? No. “But it’s free and..” No, I’m making dinner. “But let me show you and it’s free”. I’ve said no.

    That said, I hope you have gotten the green light to move into your house. I’ve been stuck in a camper between houses before. Ugh.

  • Yep.

    It’s literally a numbers game. As in: there’s TWO (2) parties. Pick one. Then, once you’ve picked one of the TWO (2) platforms you can sorta agree with (you’re not rubbing a fucking genie lamp–you get some of what you want or all of what you don’t), realize you should probs just vote straight ticket for that party. It’s about numbers (1,2,3,etc.), once again. That is: The more (2>1) people you can get into office that stand on your chosen policy platform, the more (>) votes they can cast toward (or against) committee motions and laws.

    Quit your puddin’ headed nonsense about 3rd party “Protest Votes” or you’ll watch another Dumbya kill 250,000 people in Iraq for “WMD” that he knew didn’t exist.

  • Be Gin

    There are vaccines for polio, chicken-pox, measles and various other diseases; too bad there isn’t a vaccine for ideological puritans who would open the White House door for Donald Drumpf.

    Fortunately there is one preventative for that and it is found on the tip of Donnie’s tongue.

    • Panika MCD

      when doing an update to the TX statute regarding what vaccine information can and should be shared with public schools [a bill authored by my State Rep. Donna Howard (D-Austin, who is a nurse) and State Rep. J. D. Sheffield (R-Gatesville, who is a doctor)] the anti-vaxxers came out of the woodwork. Rep. Sheffield at one point said, “Well, you can’t vaccinate against stupid.”

  • Erick the Kracker

    I love it when you talk dirty.

  • theblackdog

    The Green Party would actually be closer to being relevant if they ran candidates for offices that weren’t President and Vice President of the United States. My BF took a look at the MD Green Party website and besides the whole Jill Stein spiel, they’re running a candidate for the City Council of Baltimore and Mayor of the City of Baltimore. There’s no one for any of the county councils or even the US House of Reps and US Senate race that is up this year.

    So it seems to me that the Greens are more interested in only the top job, but that’s not how you build up a political party that actually becomes relevant. You have to work your way up to the top but they don’t seem to have the patience to do so.

    • WomanInAMood

      That’s actually the one thing that still really pisses me off about Nader. He couldn’t maybe, oh, I don’t know, get in some practice? The egotism was just annoying. And now this Stein person. FFS, it takes organization and dedication, not to the cause, but to being willing to sit through four hour meetings at the local County Water Commissioners; to be able to stand long, tedious meetings about where to put the stoplights; to chair school board meetings that have hundreds of people, all with their own very special opinions of The Homecoming Game festivities. It takes true dedication to build a political base. And not just the fucking election fairy.

      • M3D1T8R

        Nader was working to build a national movement. I personally asked him this exact question that you bring up, and that was his answer. Seems fair enough. Are you aware that after the more recent invasion of Iraq (which Hillary voted for, incidentally) Nader spent many months traveling the entire country giving talks in protest of the war? These were not political campaign talks. He was working to build a citizens movement of hundreds of thousands who would write, call, email Congress protesting the war and in favor of progressive ideas. This is just one example. Ralph Nader has spent most of his life working tirelessly doing just the kind of boring, tedious work you call for, necessary in laying the groundwork for change. This endless self sacrifice working to help others is rare and certainly not the norm in the political world – that world where people like the Clinton’s exclusively reside. Then just because Nader has used the political world as a means of working to advance the same real progressive ideas – which is certainly his right – people want to crucify the man. Seems such people aren’t really being fair in their judgement. Meanwhile we have now seen the Bernie movement, the latest voice of much of those same ideas Nader has labored life long in order to advance.

        • WomanInAMood

          Nope. If he was actually working to build a national movement, then where are all the Naderite’s on school boards, county commissions, state assemblies, etc.? Oh, that would be nowhere. Getting a bunch of people to call Congress isn’t building a legitimate political movement, it is setting up a phone tree. While that is a pain in the ass, it doesn’t actually lead to much. Since I am not a centurion in the Roman Empire, I have never felt the desire to crucify anybody. But will I ever admire somebody who thinks that he is so special, that his first elected job should be POTUS? No.

          Five more words – Bernie lost. Get over it.

          • M3D1T8R

            Wait, how do you know what all those Nader voters do?
            To be fair, as I pointed out, Nader is special. So special to be elected president? Apparently not. All I mentioned was his right to run, which you haven’t countered at all. I assume you didn’t vote for him, you obviously don’t think he deserves the job. Great, then vote for whichever candidate you prefer, as I assume you did/do.

            As to your final five words, they reveal more about your own strange preconceptions/biases than anything else. Where you got the idea that I’m not “over” Bernie’s Presidential campaign, I have no idea. (Certainly not from anything I’ve written.) I mean, that campaign is over.

            You originally brought up a legitimate question that a lot of people have (why I bothered responding) but now you seem oddly intent only on hostility. So much so that along with all the lack of sense you keep making, you’re starting to sound like a Trump supporter. By your logic you probably think Sanders should not have run either (again, a strange, pointless waste of a thought considering it is not up to you who gets to run and who doesn’t). Why bother, right, when he is, after all, a “loser”.

          • Brian

            Nader wasn’t special. He was Lyndon LaRouche. He was Ross Perot. He was John Anderson. He was George Wallace. He was a guy who couldn’t accept the party he had been with didn’t want him or the guy who thought he knew better than the electorate.
            Sanders was not pointless because by running within the party he got the platform to adopt many of his policies and he forced the candidate to openly endorse his policies. That is how you make change. Bernie is not a loser.
            You probably are.

          • M3D1T8R

            Nader was Larouche, Perot? Oh, I guess you’re looking at this only from a political perspective. To me Nader’s political campaigns are a small footnote on what he did.

            To continue with this Trumpesque juvenile language, I’ll agree, Bernie is not a “loser”.

            To suggest that I probably am – if only there were some objective way to discern such a fact! Alas, there is not, making your statement pointless, beyond the obvious (failed, trolling) insult baiting.

          • Brian

            Yes, I was looking at his campaigns. He accomplished a lot as a non-partisan advocate. But once he began getting attention as a Presidential candidate he was no different than the others. I am sorry for insulting you, I shouldn’t have. But I honestly don’t see how he is different from other 3rd party candidates. I say that as someone who would have voted for him in 2000, but he wasn’t on the ballot in my state. He compromised his principles, he said things to get votes that did not sync up with his actions. There are many people who do great things who suddenly say strange things when they start running for office and Nader was no different. That’s what I meant.

          • M3D1T8R

            I’ll agree that he probably made mistakes. He is human. I was originally talking about Nader as everything he’s accomplished, not just the politics. But I guess I just feel that – even just in his political campaigns – his presence was still more of a positive than a negative overall. But yeah, that sort of weirdness that can overcome a person when they go into politics, the subtle or not so subtle changes in communication.. you’re right, that is real. Come to think of it, maybe that’s why so many people have a problem with Hillary (as “untrustworthy”) it’s the culmination of her operating from that political mode of thinking and speaking (that her and Bill seem to operate in exclusively) basically all the time, forever.

            Apology accepted, thanks. : )

          • Jen_Baker_VA

            He is human, he made a mistake, but Hillary voted for that one thing 80% of Americans wanted her to vote for and we should never forgive her for that and bring it up even when it is not in the discussion. Oh, and she spoke to people and got paid for it.
            Guess she is not human?

          • M3D1T8R

            First of all, bringing up her vote was actually directly related to the discussion, because I was talking about Ralph Nader’s work against the war, in response to someone else bringing him up.

            But yes, correct, she should not be forgiven for it, in terms of judging her leadership.

            Because while Nader maybe had some human mistakes such as slightly off putting uses of phrases or some such throughout his political campaigns, Hillary’s mistake had vast awful consequences to the the lives of millions of other people. So yeah, there should be more scrutiny put on such weighty decisions. Which is why they should be made with more caution in the first place. Hillary voted for the Iraq War Resolution (2002) together with many other Democrats in Congress and a majority of Republicans. But there were a number of others in Congress who rather than following the political winds, looked at the actual evidence (or lack thereof) and voted against it: Russ Feingold, Patty Murray, Ron Wyden, Barbara Boxer, Dennis Kucinich, Bernie Sanders, Nacy Pelosi, even one Republican Senator (Chafee) to name a few. This was not some inconsequential vote where 90% voted in favor, where a “no” vote would be only a protest. Dem’s together with Dem-voting Jim Jeffords (I-VT) had a Senate majority at the time. If they all simply stood up against Bush and the Republicans, the Resolution would have failed.

            And there were hundreds of thousands if not millions of citizens, led by people like Ralph Nader, who spoke out and protested and in the case of myself and several close friends got arrested protesting against the war. Not to mention the vast majority of people in other communities around the globe. All of these people some how had better judgement than Hillary did on this monumental issue. That is what makes a leader. To be able to make correct, wise, choices, regardless. Hillary as usual instead went with political expediency. She more recently has said that the vote was a mistake. She apparently now believes it to be a mistake (after previously defending it) because it has now become seen as the wrong vote due to changes in the political climate. (This is similar to her “evolving” view on gay marriage, which again goes along with public views after the fact rather than choosing to lead.)

            Meanwhile we had Bernie Sanders who had the leadership and the wisdom to vote against the war back in 2002. Some how he turned out to be right, while Hillary was wrong. More recently we similarly but less consequentially had Bernie call out DNC head Debbie Wasserman Shultz for not playing fair in the Primary, saying she should resign. Hillary did nothing. Months later we find out that, as usual, he was in fact correct, and finally, now that it’s a political necessity, Hillary comes along.

          • Mel

            If you feel that Hillary is untrustworthy then you have bought into the republican mythology. Hillary is human and she has made mistakes like us all, but generally she has followed through on her stated goals and taking some hard hits for them. The republicans have investigated and investigated and ridiculed and ridiculed, but she is still standing.

          • M3D1T8R

            I never said anything about whether I find her untrustworthy either way. I was giving a reason for why people might find her so. There’s probably more to it than the usual vast right wing conspiracy.

        • Brian

          Ralph Nader spent time timelessly traveling across the country speaking to tiny crowds about things that no one cared about. Who are you blaming for his failure, Democrats or citizens? Maybe Nader is to blame. People love to attack the Iraq vote now but at the time the vast majority of Americans supported it. Nader was very effective changing public policy when he was an outside advocate. He almost single-handedly got the seat-belt laws passed. Nader originally had a focused, sensible platform based on his past as an advocate for public safety. He focused on EPA regulations, campaign finance reform and other populist causes. But the problem with third parties is that once they lose they tend to go to more extreme positions to attract more voters like their current reach to the anti-vaxx crowd.
          Nader stopped working tirelessly to help others when he got attention running for president. he then started working tirelessly to get elected, which he was bad at, he could have done better. he could have raised more money and built an actually party but his ego prevented him from doing so. Bernie is smarter than that. So is Hillary, who actually has succeeded while tirelessly to improve the lives of everyone.

        • Mel

          This statement, “that world where people like the Clinton’s exclusively reside,” really irritates me. The Clintons were not born into wealthy political families. They earned their place in that world by winning and losing..and never quitting. Are you saying Hillary’s fight for healthcare reform doesn’t count as working for others? Then regrouping after she lost and getting some of the components passed doesn’t count either? Or the countless investigations she was involved in to gain better access to education for children doesn’t count?

          • M3D1T8R

            I heard an anecdote supposedly from someone close to the Clintons who said that in their home all they ever talked about was politics. So my point was that the Clintons only seem to care the political “game”. I’m not saying Hillary has done nothing for people. Some of that is going to occur naturally as a result of operating from such a powerful political world (I do think the negatives – people she’s hurt through those same sort of political decisions – far outweigh the positives, however.)

          • fka_donnie_d

            I heard an anecdote supposedly from someone close to the Clintons

            Really dude? Seriously?

            Like, now I feel fucking horrible for all the people who typed all the words to try and have a conversation with you. Fucking douchebag.

          • M3D1T8R

            Certainly nothing I’ve said, which has all been sincere and honest, warrants such rabid hostility, but I guess sadly this is the awful way that a lot of people like to communicate with other human beings nowadays. Not for me. Go troll someone else. Flagged, blocked.

      • rayy

        I think she was elected “Town hall meeting chairman” once–seriously.

        • WomanInAMood

          Yay. Go team.

    • malsperanza

      The Greens do have a few local-level candidates and regular state-level party organization, though small. They haul out Stein every 4 years to take advantage of the free publicity of a presidential campaign, which is legit.

      The problem is that they are neither particularly Green nor necessarily liberal–just the usual cranks who inhabit fringe parties in general. Their members are a sturry of Naderites, Lyndon Larouche dingbats, the usual Socialist medley (New Alliance Party, Independent Workers Party), and the occasional complete goofball, like Lenora Fulani (Natural Law Party, various other groups mostly run by cultish psychologists).

      This is why real independent progressives steer clear of them. NY’s Zephyr Teachout ran for governor on the Working Families Party ticket instead. The WFP is a local fringe liberal group that endorses Democrats and is not loony. She did better than expected against That Fuck Cuomo (for whom I regrettably voted), and was able to parlay that into a spot on the Dem ticket for Congress. Which is how a small fringe party works: it can feed good candidates into the larger system.

  • yyyaz

    “Crisp Air” is over at https://disqus.com/home/discussion/abcnewsdotcom/donald_trump_calls_hillary_clinton_the_devil/#comment-2816329565 right now if you enjoy teasing fools as much as I do.

    • doktorzoom

      No. We aren’t here to encourage stalking, OK?

  • puipui

    So here’s a video wherein Jill Stein talks about how she’s concerned that wifi in schools might be damaging children’s brains:

    https://youtu.be/IGQjaSJP2Xg

    It’s kind of impressive how she manages to tie everything bad that has ever happened, ever, to Monsanto. I mean, I’m no fan of Monsanto, but seriously Jill Stein? Seriously?

    She is actively horrible. :(

    • cousin itt

      I know this fetus, he’s like already texting up a storm. Donald totally gets social media and it hasn’t hurt his notochord one bit.

    • CripesAmighty

      Oh, man. This is some moldy old woo, right there–We used to laugh into our sleeves when the ‘cell-phone-cancer-panic’ peeps came to flap and squawk about the 2nd head that would grow out of their kids’ elbows if we allowed that 2nd antenna on the Town Hall radio tower. In 1995

      • M3D1T8R

        I personally think the priority should be on acute physical toxins/pollutants, such as poisons in our water, air, land.
        But to be fair, the jury is still out on the long term affects of cell phone radiation, and other radiowaves.
        If anything, the totality of the evidence seems to suggest there are some effects, we just don’t yet know the extent, so best to use at least a little basic caution.

        • CripesAmighty

          Ridiculous. Cell phone radiation is no different than any other radio. The jury long ago went home on this 100 year old technology. If the Perpetual Panic Police really wanna attack a pernicious threat, they oughta go after the scourge of errant bathtub soap.

          • M3D1T8R

            Sounds like you haven’t read up on it much. Like I tried to say, the abundance of evidence thus far appears to show that we still do not know. “No different than any other radio” isn’t a complete statement. Certainly radio waves of all types have some affects. Probably exceedingly minor, generally.
            I am not in favor of the PPP as you call it, about just about anything. But I agree about all the non-biodegradable soap being more of an immediate concern than cell phone radiation, if that’s what you mean.
            But that doesn’t mean I’m not still going to generally talk on my phone on speakerphone, considering it’s no inconvenience and it might help reduce the risk of brain tumors.

          • CripesAmighty

            Sorry, this is just woo: Absence of evidence means you haven’t proven my weird hypothesis/superstition isn’t true. No, radio waves of all types do not have ‘some effects’. We are–and always have been–constantly surrounded by all manner of naturally occurring radiation. ‘radio waves’ are just frequencies controlled in order to carry signal information.

          • M3D1T8R

            It’s not absence of evidence like you’re referring (or I’d agree with that). It’s just as of yet inconclusive evidence. Of course I realize we’re always exposed to naturally occurring radiation. But to suggest that naturally occurring radiation has no effect? That is just not true. I mean, skin cancer is a thing, for one.

          • King of America

            A better answer would have included a link to a scientific paper showing some sort of data backing you up. Of course, you can’t do that as it is fear-mongering nonsense.

          • M3D1T8R

            Well you could have very well looked it up yourself if you were actually interested rather than just wanting to being hostile and dismissive, but here’s an article discussing one of the latest:
            http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/major-cell-phone-radiation-study-reignites-cancer-questions/

          • King of America

            That article is sensationalist tripe. That’s one study which has not yet been published and – more importantly – has not undergone peer review (and has a whole mess of contradictory findings).

            The simple fact is that humans have been using cell phones for DECADES. Where is the associated explosion in cancers this should have caused? Oh right, it’s completely absent.

          • M3D1T8R

            Scientific American is hardly sensationalist tripe. The article we’re commenting under in this apparent click bait blog on the other hand..

          • King of America

            Yeah, I get that – as a Luddite conspiracy theorist – you will seize on any misinterpreted evidence for your bizarre misunderstandings, while – in this particular case – ignoring decades of research that shows otherwise. I just don’t care. Take your anti-science bullshit elsewhere.

          • M3D1T8R

            Your insane, random, baseless attack is laughably false in literally every way.
            Really funny if you actually knew me. But keep making up crazy nonsense if that’s how you want to participate in the conversation.

          • King of America

            Given your impossibly low standards, there’s orders of magnitude more evidence for cold fusion or that climate change isn’t real. One unpublished outlier study does not change half a century of research, no matter how badly you believe that cellphones are Death Magic. Your superstition is not science.

          • Since phosphates were outlawed, there are no longer any substantial amounts of biodegradable soaps in use.

            The EU cell phone study concluded definitively that GHz radio was without risk as used, and that was a couple years ago. They used a risk model, which was appropriate, rather than the IARC’s high-dose cause model.

            And if you knew anything at all about the subject, you would know that the EM emitted by the speaker coil and the EM emitted by the antenna are completely different both in frequency and in magnitude.

          • M3D1T8R

            Thanks for the reply containing some actual info not just trolling insult baiting as I’ve come accustomed in my short time on here.
            I use speakerphone because that way I’m not physically as close to the device (like I’d be pursuing my head on it), so the strength of the radiation is much less. Similarly, when my phone is in its signal booster (which boosts the signal exponentially, something like over 100x) I try to keep a couple feet away when talking on it so my brain doesn’t fry. This isn’t just crazyness, it’s actually in the instructions of the booster.
            I’ll to look more into some of the other things you mentioned.

          • Wow you must live out in the boonies to need that much of a boost. Signal decreases with the square of the distance, so a couple feet would mean the boost is probably a few thousand-fold.

            Tensions have been high here lately, there have been an unusual number of psycho-trolls. I’m hoping they’re Russians, or it means US schools are worse than I thought.

            Just try to find real scientists for technical info. Peace.

    • M3D1T8R

      I mean just about everything she says if you actually listen to it, is pretty right on. May be a little overly concerned about the affects of wifi radiation and all that, sure, but her overall point about young kids staring at screens all day, is certainly valid.

      • Maybe

        Valid, but hardly Presidential. And she is an anti-vaccer., which is not at all good for young kids.

    • Andi Johnson

      Housemates from China tried to shut my wifi down for the whole house…woman upstairs works at home and wondered, “WTF”…I schooled them on the necessity of wifi, everywhere. So, screw that. Thank you.

    • rayy

      She’s The answer to Ben Carson–like we needed one!

    • Maybe

      I wonder what she attributes her own brain damage to?

    • but isn’t the Monsanto board packed with Rothschilds & the Bilderberg Group?

      I noticed the Greens’ platform doesn’t include requiring the removal of chemtrail generators from all planes, they’re probably keeping that one on the down-low.

    • Boldizar

      Insert the video where Clinton laughs in contempt and pride that someone has been murdered.

  • georgiaburning

    This year’s group of minor parties and their candidates look like a
    bunch of one-issue, one-shot cranks who got tired of being ignored by their
    immediate community and are going for being ignored by a bigger
    audience. This applies to both right-wingers and lefty types.

    Third parties in other countries run legitimate candidates for local offices and often become major parties in regions where the major parties aren’t in touch with the locals. US “third parties” used to be that way as well, like the Socialists in Milwaukee and the Silver Party in Nevada. The closest we’ve had to that recently was Reform Party, who got Jesse Ventura elected governor in Minnesota. But they splintered apart after being taken over by fringe Republicans in 2000.

    There would be room for a grass-roots party on the left in parts of the US, but it’s hard enough for Democrats to unify. Can you imagine BLM, Greens, Peace and Freedom, and the old Socialist Workers writing a platform and all supporting it? Me neither.

    • bardgal

      Other countries have Instant Runoff Elections, which Jill is happy to take GOP money to NOT fight for, since that would mean she would have to use that money on an actual campaign, which she has no interest in doing.

    • They wouldn’t necessarily have to have a unified platform, just core & peripheral. The key difficulty is agreeing not to field candidates in a race that a coalition partner could win. If Nader & Stein are representative examples, then it seems like ego is the main motivator, so candidates stepping aside might be a non-starter.

    • parkii

      Wasn’t 2000 when Trump joined and was going to run for pres as the Reform Party candidate?

      • georgiaburning

        Yes. That was a curious turn. Trump sounded much more liberal at that time, but Reform was being taken over by conservative Republicans. He dropped out of the race. Pat Buchanan was their nominee but the party fell apart. They qualified for matching funds based on Perot’s 1996 showing but didn’t do well at all in 2000. Buchanan himself went back into the Repub fold, others went to various splinter groups.

        So you have to wonder if the Reform Party was sabotaged by some Republican factions because it was considered a future threat. They couldn’t win an election but could certainly siphon off enough centerist support to cost Repub candidates a few states, if they stuck around as a national organization.

  • Pierre_de_Fermat

    Just saw this. Goodness, Rebecca, you’d be kind of terrifying for a young canvasser to run in to.
    Hope the housing situation is clearing up. Good thing you have the Wonkebago.

    • kareemachan

      I cheerfully told a Bernie-Bro that I didn’t give a shit who was the Dem candidate. I was focused on not letting Trumpette into the WH. He had sads.

  • parkii

    I’m so disappointed that there is no video!! You are braver than I am, I just call her a whackadoodle.

    • Boldizar

      Wow, being an asshole is brave now?

  • TeeRaak

    There’s only one kinda Stein we
    like around these parts…

    https://media0.giphy.com/media/ixl5Y4F8Fd0n6/200w.gif

    • Invidosa

      What about the kind beer goes in? We like that kind of Stein don’t we? I’ll be sad if we don’t!

      • theCryptofishist

        I could repost this time after time, apparently…

        THERE’S a notable family named Stein,
        There’s Gert and there’s Ep and there’s Ein.
        Gert’s prose is all bunk,
        Ep’s sculpture just junk,
        And nobody understands Ein.

  • Teto85

    I am glad you had fun. And thank you for sharing.

  • I’ve lived in both San Francisco and the Boston area (though not in Lexington). Remember the South Park episode with the deadly cloud of Smug over SF? Nowhere on this planet can beat the Smug of rich, white, ivy-league Boston suburbs, it’s breathtaking. So well educated they have no idea how stupid they are.

    [signed, a poor, white, ivy-league male; no doubt the “male” part disqualifies me from voting on agenda certifications]

  • Charles Watson

    Fascinating. So let’s recap, shall we? If you have any concerns or criticisms of Hillary Clinton based on, say, her history of enthusiasm for military engagement, or her work with her husband in devastating the African American community in the 90s, or her dangerous promotion of fracking all over the world, you’re obviously a misogynist.

    But Jill Stein is “cunty.”

    • NotALiar

      No not obviously at all! You will be called misogynistic if you are beingoing a misogynist! I can’t speak for all wonkers and wouldn’t presume to but honest debate seems very welcome around here. Just don’t be cunty about it.

      • Charles Watson

        Bernie Sanders said, “Excuse me, I’m talking” to Hillary Clinton when she interrupted him during his allotted speaking time in a debate, and the internet exploded with angry Clinton supporters decrying his sexism. One of the main tactics of the Clinton campaign was to attack any and every critic for being either sexist or a bad feminist, no matter what they said. For a Clinton supporter to then turn around and call a woman running for president “cunty” isn’t just hypocritical, it underlines how utterly dishonest that whole line of attack was in the first place.

        • NotALiar

          I’m not here to defend Rebecca’s comfort with the word cunt. She is more than capable of doing that on her own. That being said, there is a an enormous amount of sexist attacks being thrown Sec. Clintons way. The argument against Dr. Stein can also be made without using her gender in anyway. As well as Sec. Clinton.

          • Charles Watson

            “The argument against Dr. Stein can also be made without using her gender in anyway. As well as Sec. Clinton.” Yes. That’s precisely my point. But if you refer to Jill Stein as “cunty,” you not only give up your right to complain about any misogyny leveled at your candidate, you’re essentially acknowledging that that was never a real issue for you.

          • NotALiar

            Right. I was agreeing with you on that point. I personally wouldn’t call Dr. Stein a cunt.

          • skyman123

            Oh my. I use cunt (as do most non-US English speaking countries) in a totally genderless way. When Bernie was interrupting Hillary, he was a cunt. Jill is one when she panders to the anti-vaxers and tells us that radio waves are gonna hurt our heads and we’ll all die. I wouldn’t call Trump a cunt because I haven’t yet discovered a word that’s worse than that, but I’m trying! I’ll let you know when I find it. Save your umbrage (look it up) for when people call someone a cumguzzlingjizwhore or a ballsgarglinghagbasket because, you know, those are terrible! Honest. But when someone calls me cunty (and trust me, I am. A lot. Like right now.) I’m sorta proud of myself. But Stein shouldn’t be as long as she says stupid things smugly. Here’s some radio waves just for you Jill….(holding up my iPhone in her general direction now).

          • Charles Watson

            I love it. You’re completely re-writing the rules of language. Someone says “Excuse me, I’m talking” to a woman who interrupts them, and they’re sexist. Someone calls a woman “cunty,” and all of a sudden, “cunt” is a gender neutral word.

            You’re absolutely, 100% full of shit.

          • kareemachan

            And when you try to defend the undefendeable (yeah, I know that’s not actually a word), you give up your right to be taken seriously.

            Seriously.

            And I, as a female, am not misogynistic. I am, admittedly, anti-Jill for the reasons I listed above.

          • Charles Watson

            I’m not defending Jill Stein at all. She’s an idiot. But I understand your point now – misogyny is acceptable if it’s leveled against a woman you don’t agree with.

        • Cajsa Lilliehook

          Except the transcripts clearly prove that he interrupted her. he didn’t like what she said, interrupted to contradict her and when she tried to take back her time, he said “Excuse me, I’m talking.” That is why it was so sexist. You don’t get to interrupt and say that unless you’re a sexist who routinely talks over women.

          • Charles Watson

            “Transcripts?” What the hell are you talking about? It was on national TV, and you can watch it again on YouTube. It was the Democratic candidates debate, and during Sanders’ allotted time, she interrupted him. I’m attaching the video for you.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqjrYehUSeE

          • Charles Watson

            And second, if you think it’s somehow misogynist to say “Excuse me, I’m talking” to a woman who’s interrupted you, but it’s perfectly OK to call a woman “cunty,” you’re straight up lying.

          • Cajsa Lilliehook

            When you begin a clip after he interrupted it proves nothing. Here is the transcript. You can clearly see she was responding to a question and Sanders did not like her answer and interrupted.

            CLINTON: Well — well, I’ll tell you something else that Senator Sanders was against. He was against the auto bailout. In January of 2009, President-Elect Obama asked everybody in the Congress to vote for the bailout.

            The money was there, and had to be released in order to save the American auto industry and four million jobs, and to begin the restructuring. We had the best year that the auto industry has had in a long time. I voted to save the auto industry.

            (APPLAUSE)

            He voted against the money that ended up saving the auto industry. I think that is a pretty big difference.

            SANDERS: Well, I — If you are talking about the Wall Street bailout, where some of your friends destroyed this economy…

            CLINTON: You know…

            SANDERS: … through — excuse me, I’m talking.

            By the way, this was a great example of male privilege. Even though he interrupted her, Anderson Cooper told her to let him finish. Men around the world insisted and still insist she interrupted him even though the transcript proves otherwise and of course, most of the shared videos are cut to mislead, like the one you shared.

          • Charles Watson

            You’re doing everything you can to change the subject. It’s not going to work. On the subject of the debate – it was Sanders’ allotted time to speak, and as the video AND your transcript show, he was letting her speak during his time. Then, when she’d finished and he tried to answer – EVEN THOUGH SHE’D INTERRUPTED HIM – he said, “Excuse me, I’m talking,” and the Clinton campaign went into full spin mode, trying to make out that somehow this is not something that happens every five minutes in every presidential debate.

            It was pure horseshit then, and it’s pure horseshit now, as you’re actively proving.

            “this was a great example of male privilege. Even though he interrupted her, Anderson Cooper told her to let him finish.”

            Yes, he did. BECAUSE IT WAS STILL HIS TIME TO TALK ACCORDING TO DEBATE RULES.

            “Men around the world insisted and still insist she interrupted him even though the transcript proves otherwise “

            Not just men, liar. Everyone who was actually paying attention, and who was aware that it was his time to talk.

            Also, your transcript actually makes the opposite point. If you’re going to cling to the notion that there are no rules in a debate, she actually finishes what she’s saying. She addresses a point, sums it up, finishes, and then he responds, and she interrupts him.

            Second – This isn’t even the subject we’re discussing. You’re fixating on this because you believe you can muddy the waters enough to somehow avoid addressing the indisputable fact that if you’re going to claim that interrupting a fellow candidate during a presidential debate is somehow misogynistic, then defending a writer who calls a woman who’s running for President of the United States “cunty” is the depths of hypocrisy.

            So let’s be clear – you don’t give one single solitary shit about sexism in presidential politics. It’s just a tool you people use to bludgeon opposition into silence.

          • Cajsa Lilliehook

            Saying it with all caps, with lots of invective and getting angry does not make it true. She was answering a question, he interrupted, she “interrupted” his interruption. That is why women were offended.

            It was not his time. And no matter how loudly, how rudely and how vulgarly you shout otherwise, you can’t change the facts. You decide she finished what she was saying, but you don’t know that. He did not wait for Cooper to signal it was his turn. You assume it was his turn because he just took it, asserting his male privilege to interrupt women and get away with it.

          • Charles Watson

            Jesus.

            You’re either the most dishonest person I’ve ever met, or the stupidest. It was a debate. It was his allotted time. Beyond that, they did what all politicians do – they talked over each other all night.

            And all of this is just you scrambling desperately to ignore the fact that if saying “Excuse me, I’m talking” is sexist, then calling a woman “cunty” is completely unacceptable.

            Do not pretend for one single solitary second that if anyone had called Hillary Clinton “cunty,” you’d have lost your damn mind and spent the next month on the internet freaking out about misogyny.

          • Cajsa Lilliehook

            Scott Baio called Hillary one in a tweet and defended and talked about it in his speech to the RNC. This is the first time I have mentioned it because that is just exactly what I expect from the Trump party.

            You are dishonest and misrepresent the facts again and again. It is not worth my time to continue a conversation with such a dishonest and, to be honest, disgusting individual. Goodbye.

          • Charles Watson

            “:It is not worth my time to continue a conversation with such a dishonest and, to be honest, disgusting individual. Goodbye.”

            You think it’s alright to call women “cunty,” and I’m the disgusting individual.

            What a fucking hypocrite you are.

          • Cajsa Lilliehook

            i understand now why you misrepresent the debate. You suffer from reading comprehension issues. I said I don’t use the word, I don’t use the other gendered word. Nowhere in anything I wrote defends using that word, which indicates that your ability to read is limited. Sure, you read the words, but you cannot extract meaning from them. You read what you want to see, not what is there.

            It’s a disability that is incredibly common, but you have an advanced case.

          • Charles Watson

            This entire conversation is about the fact that the author of the piece called Jill Stein “cunty.”

            “Nowhere in anything I wrote defends using that word,”

            Everything you wrote has been an attempt to derail the subject and make it about something you’re more comfortable with.

          • Cajsa Lilliehook

            No, it’s about you arguing with a lie. If you want to bring up something true, go for it, but using a lie does two things. It spreads and endorses the lie and using a false narrative to make your point undercuts your point.

            There is a case to be made that using gendered epithets is wrong, but using lies to make that argument is stupid and wrong.

          • Charles Watson

            I’ve used no lie to make my case. I’ve stated facts.

            Calling out critics for being sexist was a major tool of the Clinton campaign. For a supporter to go along with that, then to turn around happily call Jill Stein “cunty” is hypocrisy at its most primal.

            Your need to attack me, instead of to call out one of your own speaks volumes about your personal integrity.

          • Charles Watson

            Yes. I’m arguing with a lie. I’m arguing with YOUR lie. The lie that the only time one candidate has interrupted another during a debate was when it was Hillary Clinton talking. The lie that she was actually talking when Sanders started speaking. The lie that it wasn’t his allotted time to speak during the debate.

            But the fact remains – all of this is in a thread in which I called out the hypocrisy of an ardent Clinton supporter calling another female candidate “cunty.”

            And you STILL can’t acknowledge the glaring, obvious truth of that. Which is why you keep clinging to this stupid and irrelevant argument, rather than just admit the simple truth.

          • Charles Watson

            I’ve used no lies to make that argument.

          • Cajsa Lilliehook

            You lie when you say she interrupted him. She had the floor, he interrupted her, she tried to speak and he said “Excuse me, I am talking.” The transcript is clear. It’s appalling that Anderson Cooper endorsed his interruption but typical male privilege. Studies show men notice women’s interruptions and don’t notice men’s interruptions.

            Research shows that as soon as women are 17% of a group, men think there are too many women and once they reach 30% men complain that women are the majority. It’s the reason you see his interruption as his right and her trying to regain her time as an interruption. It’s social conditioning, but now you have seen the transcripts you know it’s a lie and you continue to push it.

            And that you know it is a lie is evidenced by your using a clip that starts after he interrupted her to create a false impression. Your choice of clip is evidence of your bad faith.

          • Charles Watson

            “You lie when you say she interrupted him. She had the floor, he interrupted her, she tried to speak and he said “Excuse me, I am talking.”

            You are not in possession of facts. It was his allotted time to speak. She had interrupted to make a statement. When she finished her statement, he spoke, and she interrupted him.

            All that aside, there are two things going on here that are fascinating. The first is, you’re pretending to believe that candidates don’t constantly interrupt each other during debates, and that Clinton and Sanders hadn’t interrupted each other scores of times before the “incident.” You’re clearly stupid, but not stupid enough to actually believe that.

            The second is, you’re ducking the fact that ALL of this is in a thread discussing the despicable sexism of calling a woman who is running for president “cunty.” You claim to be outraged by the sexism of a man saying “Excuse me, I’m talking” during a presidential debate, but are doing everything you can to avoid addressing the blatant misogyny of calling a woman “cunty.”

            The whole point of my comment was to underline the bald hypocrisy of some ardent Clinton supporters.

            Your actions here have proven me absolutely correct.

          • Cajsa Lilliehook

            I knew the facts of the transcript would have no effect on you. You are what you are. I hope you only have boy children.

          • Charles Watson

            Your transcript doesn’t address the facts I laid out to you at all. But of course, you ignore that. Your convenient narrative doesn’t have room for actual facts.

            And I have two girls, actually. Both of whom find the hypocrisy of centrist white liberals as odious as I do.

          • movieman0283

            I have no idea why you focused on the first part of that exchange, in which Hillary Clinton is unambiguously interrupting Bernie Sanders (he is only 10 seconds into his allotted 30 seconds for a follow-up, and in the middle of a sentence at that). You could have focused instead on her second attempt to speak, which was after his 30 seconds had expired, even though he continued to talk. From a technical standpoint then, both parties can be criticized. Clinton was wrong to step into Sanders’ time, and then Sanders was later wrong to continue past his own time when she was ready to respond. She had long ago answered the question (in fact, she’d run over her own time in doing so), and in fact had also finished her allotted time for a follow-up, so you mischaracterized both Sanders’ and Cooper’s role in this exchange.

            Here are the rules of the debate, as outlined in the transcript: “The candidates will have one minute and 15 seconds to answer questions. They’ll have 30 seconds for follow- ups.” (Transcript: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/07/us/politics/transcript-democratic-presidential-debate.html?_r=0)

            Here is the relevant video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEfxalQNwKY You can cue it up to 22:00 for the exchange and time it yourself.

          • Cajsa Lilliehook

            I watched the whole exchange. A woman asks Clinton a question. She answers. Bernie answers. Anderson Cooper says “Secretary Clinton” Clinton answers reminding people that Bernie voted to destroy their industry and jobs, Bernie buts in “if you’re talking about…” Clinton tries to finish. Bernie says “excuse me I”m talking.”

            But yeah, keep telling yourself whatever makes you happy. It’s proven time and time through research that men don’t notice male interruptions and overestimate female interruptions. You’re being very average.

          • movieman0283

            Learn. To. Read.

            “The candidates will have one minute and 15 seconds to answer questions. They’ll have 30 seconds for follow- ups.”

    • kareemachan

      No, if you have ZILCH experience in office, you deserve derision. As I’ve said elsewhere, the position of POTUS is not the place for OJT.

      If you pander to anti-vaxxers, you deserve name-calling.

      If your party can’t be bothered to try to get candidates out for local or state positions, you’re stupid.

      If you are using your points to defend her, you’re teinousha. I would be ecstatic (honestly) to support a Green Party candidate, if they had the creds. She does NOT. Basically, you’re being the other side of the coin of Trumpette supporters. With the same drivel for an “argument”.

      • Charles Watson

        None of that has anything to do with my point. You don’t get to spend a solid year calling every critic of your candidate sexist, then turn around and call a woman who’s running for president “cunty.”

        • malsperanza

          But then, what do you do if she is a fucking cunt who is hellbent on getting Donald Turnip elected, which is about the cuntiest thing a self-proclaimed “progressive” can do?

          For the record, I called Nader a cunt in 2000. So that proves I’m no sexist. Q E FUCKING D.

          • Charles Watson

            Got it. So if someone criticizes your candidate, they’re sexist. If another woman has the audacity to run for president, she’s a cunt.

          • malsperanza

            Well duh! Obviously the people who detest Jill Stein and support Hillary Clinton are just a big bunch of hypocrites. No other possible explanation.

            But hey, when ya get right down to it, isn’t that just how women are? We can’t help it; logical thinking is not our forte.

          • Charles Watson

            “Obviously the people who detest Jill Stein and support Hillary Clinton are just a big bunch of hypocrites. No other possible explanation.”

            They are if they complain about sexism then turn around and call one of those women “cunty.”

          • malsperanza

            I could have called her a fucking dick or cocksucking asshole, but I am an ardent believer in gender equity.

          • Charles Watson

            No, you’re a hypocrite. Plainly.

          • malsperanza

            OK, now I’m offended. I’ll have you know that there is nothing plain about me.

            And isn’t it just like a feminist to descend to body-shaming and call women plain? You are a Feminist, patently. (<– See how it works? I just called you shiny and glossy, which is a compliment, not an insult.) I can tell because you think the word "cunt" is just the worst thing evar and people women who use it are proven sexists, and so is anyone who calls Jill Stein out for being a moronic, damaging, incoherent, hoofwanking bunglecuntrosebud who shits all over progressive politics with her ladybutt. Identifying other people as sexists through shallow, simple-minded word tests and mindless adherence to a crap candidate is a core requirement of Real Feminists.

            The rest of us are just faking it.

          • Boldizar

            You chose to associate his response with your body. Clearly the discussion here was not about that the term was used in reference to the quality of your being a hypocrite.

            For reference your responses are plain, typical, uniformed propaganda fueled, junk.

          • malsperanza

            OK, I’m no longer offended. Now I’m just disappointed. I thought you might have a bit of spark, a touch a verve, a whiff of je ne sais rien. But this is just dreary. Damn, buddy, don’t you have any pride?

          • Boldizar

            You start taking your meds again because you know you have lost touch with reality.

          • malsperanza

            Aww dude, you can do better than that. This is lame-ass warmed-over generic internet insult stuff. No spirit! No originality! Bad! … er, whoops, sorry, I got to channeling the wrong terrible bunglecunt candidate there.

            I meant to say, No integrity! No righteous visionary purity! No spiteful hate masquerading under inept gimcrack jerryrigged pseudoleftist rhetoric!

            C+. Try again.

      • NotALiar

        -notaliar bows out –

    • cat cafe

      Even more fascinating, Hillary, of course, has zero history of enthusiasm for military engagement, in fact, with Obama, has negotiated two very delicate and difficult diplomatic ententes, over the brutal disagreements and outright treasonous undermining of the Republicans, and had no say whatsoever in the Crime Bill that that you’re referring to–the one that was in response to a genuinely terrifying crime wave in urban centers, not “black,” but the advent of extremely uncontrolled maniacs under the influence of the newer more potent drug.

      And if you’re of the opinion that Hillary wasn’t “left” enough, may I remind you that Bernie Sanders enthusiastically supported the same crime bill and even made it a cornerstone of his 2005 campaign, long after both Bill and Hillary had repudiated it.

      And the fracking thing has been debunked over and over and over. You’re tiresome. This is why people say these attacks are “misogynist”–because they’re not true. They’re lies, designed to demean a brilliant, astonishingly qualified female candidate, and would never be leveled against a man.

      In fact, they weren’t leveled against Bernie, who voted for the surge in Iran and to invade Afghanistan, and even to bomb poor old Kosovo in the 1990s, and when anti-war protesters came to his office, had them arrested; who was fully in bed with the NRA for the first two decades of his political career: who was no friend at all to the African American community in his tiny, lily-white state, or to the minority community he dumped Vermont’s nuclear toxic waste on in West Texas. This is what is misogynist. False claims leveled against a highly qualified woman, and crickets when the claims actually have grounds to be leveled against a far less qualified man.

      And Jill Stein is a complete idiot. She’s an anti-vaxxer who also believes that “wireless electricity” is dangerous, who grandstands for President to get attention once every four years, not even on the ballot in most states, the exact opposite of Secretary Clinton, who tirelessly worked her way up through the ranks, earning experience and paying her dues.

      • Charles Watson

        Wow. Where to begin?

        First of all, none of what you said addresses the egregious hypocrisy of attributing every criticism of Clinton to sexism, then turning around and calling another woman “cunty.”

        But we’ll let that slide.

        On to your allegations:

        “Hillary, of course, has zero history of enthusiasm for military engagement”

        You might want to introduce some facts into your world view. The New York Times piece on Clinton’s role in our Libya engagement pretty much wrote the last word on that subject. Read it.

        “had no say whatsoever in the Crime Bill that that you’re referring”

        Again, you should acquaint yourself with facts. The Clintons were sold to us “co-presidents” at the time, and she was THE most involved in policy First Lady in American history. She also went out and helped Clinton sell that bill, as well as the three strikes law, the assault on welfare, and all the other racist Clinton policies.

        “the fracking thing has been debunked over and over and over”

        Which “fracking thing” is that? The fact that it’s an incredibly dangerous threat to our environment, or the fact that she supports it, and just a few days ago attended a fundraiser at the home of Charif Souki, a major donor in her campaign, who’s also a major proponent of fracking? None of that has been debunked because it’s all absolutely, 100% fucking true.

        I don’t know what climate change denial websites you get your news from, but you’re completely and absolutely full of shit on this one. And your lies here are actually dangerous.

        “they weren’t leveled against Bernie,”

        I’m not talking about Bernie. This has nothing to do with him. The notion that Clinton’s sins are excusable because someone else somewhere else is guilty of the same ones speaks to a kind of moral illiteracy on your part that’s genuinely disturbing.

        “And Jill Stein is a complete idiot”

        Yes. She is. As are her supporters.

        But of the two of us, you’re the only one who thinks that that means it’s not misogynistic to call her “cunty.”

        And you’re wrong.

        • Guinnessmonkey

          There’s a vast differnce between the ridiculous caricature of a bloodthirsty warmonger that the Green Party idiots put forth of Clinton and the real woman. No, she’s not a pacifist; she thinks limited airstrikes to stop Gaddafi from slaughtering entire cities was a good use of American military power. But that’s a far cry from the idiotic oversimplification that her critics put forward. Hell, if Obama had listened to Clinton about Syria and we had just set up a no-fly zone early in the Syrian Civil War it’d probably be over by now, hundreds of thousands would be alive, and ISIS wouldn’t be killing people all over the world.

          Y’all are similarly stupid about fracking. Fracking is helping to push coal out of the market, and is drastically reducing our carbon footprint. It’s not as good as actual green sources like solar, but those aren’t ready to power our entire economy yet. As a temporary measure, fracking is a safe and effective alternative. I’d rather mitigate climate change through things we can do now which actually work than worry about idiotic far-left purity tests.

          • Charles Watson

            “There’s a vast differnce between the ridiculous caricature of a bloodthirsty warmonger that the Green Party idiots put forth of Clinton and the real woman. “

            Then take it up with them.

            Something I’ve noticed about rabid Clinton supporters that I’m seeing played out here consistently. Rather than address whatever the specific argument is, you choose instead to talk about arguments other people make, then attempt to dismantle them. I have no idea what the Green Party’s position on Clinton’s foreign policy is. I don’t care, either.

            “Y’all are similarly stupid about fracking.”

            Since you stated by attacking the position the Green Party takes, I have to assume you’re continuing your rampage against them. I have no idea what the Green Party’s position on fracking is. I don’t care, either.

            As for fracking, you’re taking a position that is not supported by science, which makes you essentially a climate change denier.

            But let’s parse this – this started when I commented on the hypocrisy of people who squawk “sexism” at every perceived slight cheering when a woman is called “cunty.”

            I pointed out that when you have real issues with Clinton – and I listed several – you’re invariably labeled sexist. Rather than acknowledge that fact, you’re choosing instead to try to argue those issues with me.

            Instead of addressing the simple, obvious truth – you only care about misogyny when it’s leveled at your candidate. You have absolutely no problem with using sexism against other women, provided they are not members of your ideological tribe.

            That was my only point, and you have all proven it again and again.

          • Guinnessmonkey

            Um, no. I wasn’t just attacking the Greenies, but you as well. I don’t know you and don’t particularly care what category of stupid you fall into: BoB, Green Party, whatever; I was specifically saying that your positions (i.e. the ones you’ve listed here in this conversation) are stupid.

          • Charles Watson

            How very Trumpy of you. I’ve actually explained my position clearly and succinctly, and when you people have responded with anger and insults, I’ve offered factual backup (Although none is needed in the case of my main point, which is it’s blatantly hypocritical for a Clinton supporter to call Jill Stein “cunty.”). You’re pig ignorant on the subject of fracking. You are, for all intents and purposes, a climate change denier. That, of course, is why all you have is insults.

          • Guinnessmonkey

            Wait, what? Believing that coal is worse than natural gas makes me a climate change denier? When my argument is that fracking is better for climate change than coal is I’m by definition not denying anthropogenic climate change is real. You’re not just stupid; you’re crazy and not worth discussing anything with.

          • Charles Watson

            “Wait, what? Believing that coal is worse than natural gas makes me a climate change denier? “

            Hilarious. But typical. Since you can’t actually argue the point, you change the terms of the argument, then dispute that. As we both know, I never said that.

            The fact that fracking is better than natural gas does not – you clever, clever person – mean it’s not terribly harmful to the environment. The only rational fracking policy is to end it NOW.

            “When my argument is that fracking is better for climate change than coal is I’m by definition not denying anthropogenic climate change is real. “

            When you’re arguing for a position that holds that we can continue to engage in fracking and still have an environment that can sustain human life, you are, for all intents and purposes, a climate change denier.

            You’ve made it crystal clear you’re absolutely ignorant on this subject, and are only interested in hurling invective. Like I said, Trumpy behavior.

          • Guinnessmonkey

            I don’t think you even understand the issues at hand. Fracking isn’t “better than natural gas”. Fracking is how you extract natural gas, which in turn is vastly, vastly cleaner than coal.

            It seems like it was just a few years ago that mayors were getting major props from environmentalists for shifting bus fleets over to natural gas. Now, by your reasoning, those mayors are “climate change denialists” because they haven’t made their entire city zero emission yet.

            Those of us who work in the real world focus on targets we can actually hit; ending our use of horrifically dirty coal is an amazingly powerful first step. People like you, however, are too busy making the perfect the enemy of the good to help us make a rational energy policy, which is why most politicans rightfully ignore you. States without major gas deposits might ban fracking just to appease you with a meaningless gesture, but that shouldn’t be taken as evidence that anyone serious actually agrees with your positions.

          • Charles Watson

            Got it. So because our understanding of science is – by nature – constantly evolving, climate change is not real. You’re brilliant. By the way, for the sake of maintaining an unsophisticated, one note love of a political candidate, you are publicly saying things that should embarrass you. Grow up.

          • Guinnessmonkey

            WTF. I’ve said that anthropogenic climate change is real over and over; apparently I understand it and the issues involved vastly more than you. You are a tiresome human being, and I’m starting to seriously doubt your reading comprehension abilities. The one with the unsophisticated, simplistic worldview is you: “FRACKING = BAD. Everyone who doesn’t agree is a climate change denier. Jill Stein good. Hillary evil.”

            I’ve been discussing how to best deal with anthropogenic climate change and your response is to claim that I don’t belive in anthropogenic climate change? That’s just dumb.

          • Charles Watson

            Learn how to read. It will, eventually, help you learn to think.

            I despise Jill Stein. I think people who vote third party are idiots.

            There is literally no doubt that continued use of fracking will rapidly hasten the destruction of our environment’s ability to sustain human life. I won’t dignify your ignorance on the subject with any further time.

            What interests me is this – your two dimensional notion that if I call out Clinton supporters for the hypocrisy of calling another woman running for president “cunty,” I must, ipso facto, be a supporter of that other candidate. You have no idea how much of an overshare that is. You’ve essentially let me know that this isn’t a serious issue for you, that it’s all just “My team” VS “Your team.” Anything anyone says about your candidate is terrible, and anything you say about another candidate is acceptable.

            You are literally indistinguishable from a Trump supporter in this regard.

            I’m voting for Clinton, you abject moron. But that doesn’t mean I check my ethics and my intellect at the door.

            Grow the fuck up. You’re everything that’s wrong with politics.

          • Guinnessmonkey

            “There is literally no doubt that continued use of fracking will rapidly hasten the destruction of our environment’s ability to sustain human life.”

            I beg to differ. The fracking explosion in the last few years and the resulting drop in natural gas prices, which in turn led to a reduced use of coal, is directly responsible for lowering carbon emissions in the United States and several other developed nations in the last few years. This is why serious analysts think that moving from coal to natural gas is a useful temporary measure as the economy slowly shifts to greater use of actually green energy.

            Also, seriously, stop with the hyperbole. Climate change has the potential to kill potentially billions of people, but nobody serious thinks it would be bad enough to render the environment unable to sustain human life worldwide. That kind of unscientific scaremongering just feeds into the climate change denialists rhetoric; give them something so easily dismissed as ridiculous and it makes it easier for them to dismiss the rest of it, too.

            Right, anyone who thinks Trump is an asshole is just as bad as Trump, because he calls people names, too. Your logic is flawless. Please fuck off. Good for you for voting for Clinton: You’re still an idiot, just less of one than I was assuming.

          • Charles Watson

            “I beg to differ.”

            No shit. And you STILL can’t read. I won’t debate science with an anonymous ideologue online.

            “Right, anyone who thinks Trump is an asshole is just as bad as Trump, because he cal ls people names, too. Your logic is flawless”

            You’re literally spiraling out of control. I haven’t addressed your feelings about Trump once. I was talking about the childish inability of partisan ideologues to call out bad behavior on their own side. This is all about – and has always been about – the use of the term “cunty” to describe a woman who’s running for president. You have twisted yourself into pretzels to avoid acknowledging the bald-faced hypocrisy of the comment.

          • Guinnessmonkey

            I haven’t even been talking about the “cunty” comment. From my first post until now all my comments have been a criticism of your overly simplistic positions regarding fracking and foreign policy. You don’t seem to be able to argue with me on the fracking thing beyond calling me an “idealogue” or bizarrely claming I’m a climate change denier.

            You’ve compared me to Trump supporters multiple times, because all you have are ad hominems. Personally, I’d prefer a word other than “cunty”, though I don’t see it as that big a deal, either. My only point wasn’t to defend “cunty”, but to point out that you have an annoyingly simplistic vew of policy; as if if you can’t fit your position on a bumper sticker then it’s too complex for you. Prolly because you’re not terribly smart; multiple people have called you out for your lack of reading comprehension. It’s quite tiresome.

          • Charles Watson

            You’ve spent too much time on the internet. The notion that a rational adult would seek to “debate” science or policy with an anonymous privileged troll calling themselves “Guinessmonkey” is idiotic.

            One of the major tools of the Clinton campaign has been the use of accusations of sexism to shut down any dissent or criticism. If you dispute that, you’re a flat out liar. The fact that a Clinton supporter is willing to let the use of the word “cunty” to describe a woman slide says everything about your integrity.

          • Guinnessmonkey

            So, yhea, all you’ve got is ridiculous ad hominems. Got it. My attempt to expand the debate past your bumper sticker slogans is “trolling” and “privledged”, and you don’t have to even acknowledge my points because you don’t like my internet handle. You continue to engage through absolutes (anyone who disagrees with your gross oversimplification is “a flat out liar”, etc.). What a ridiculous person you are.

          • Charles Watson

            You aren’t a natural scientist. I am, including natural systems and hydrogeology. Instead of trolling people on the internet to show you’ve read some Politico articles, educate yourself on the process of deforestation for starters. You would literally have to pay me money to engage in a serious discussion on this subject with you.

            I entered this discussion with the sole interest of discussing the ethical schism between people who attack critics of their candidate for sexism at every turn, then happily applaud an article calling a woman running for president “cunty.”

          • Guinnessmonkey

            I don’t even partially believe you. You’ve offered not one sentence to defend your scientific position, yet now you claim to be an actual scientist?

            I’m a historian (unlike your claim, this isn’t made up), but I’m capable of at least writing a paragraph or two of historical analysis in order to make a point; I don’t refuse to do so on the laughable basis that, as a professional, I should be paid for such analysis.

            Weird that, since you’re a scientist and all, none of your Disqus history shows you engaging with anyone on any science blogs. You’re just here and in a few pop-culture discussions.

            And seriously: Jill Stein is not running for President. She’s just a nihlistic narcissist jumping up and down asking for attention. It’s not like she deserves our respect for winning millions of votes in some hard-fought Green Party primary.

          • Charles Watson

            Ah! Finally addressing the actual subject.

            “Jill Stein is not running for President. She’s just a nihlistic narcissist jumping up and down asking for attention. It’s not like she deserves our respect for winning millions of votes in some hard-fought Green Party primary.”

            I see. So in your mind, it’s alright to call women “cunty” if you don’t personally respect them. You know who else feels that way?

            Every misogynist pig who calls women “cunty.”

            You’re a troll, a liar, and a moral illiterate. You may have the last word, as that is really all trolls ever want. Knock yourself out, pig. I’m done with you.

          • Guinnessmonkey

            WTF? I never said I liked “cunty”; frankly it’s a non sequitur to what I was interested in, which was mocking your oversimplistic view on fracking and foreign policy. You claimed to be a scientist, I said I don’t believe you, and you didn’t even defend the postion but, yet again, went back to the idiotic “cunty” discussion. Then you declared victory, which is hilarious.

            I’ve lied about nothing, and I’m not trolling but have tried to engage with you through a discussion of actual issues. You’ve responded with about a dozen posts of lies and ad hominem (I still find your claim that you’re allowed to have an oversimplistic position on fracking because you’re a hydrogeologist hilarious. It’s like when I see neo-Confederates who undoubtedly never even went to college claim that their position that slavery had nothing to do with the Civil War is correct because they’re historians. Reading “The South Was Right!” doesn’t make you a historian.). If you want to think that means you actually won an argument, feel free; this is beyond boring at this point.

          • john chill

            lol, would love to read some more of your Deep Thoughts on Syria. Do you think No-Fly Zones are magic?

          • Guinnessmonkey

            No, of course not. But I do think that early in the Syrian Civil War the only thing keeping the rebels at bay was Assad’s control of the air. There’s a very good chance that simply stopping him from sending up aircraft would have led to the fall of Damascus by the end of 2011 or the early days of 2012. A few airstrikes might have been necessary to wrap it up, which I would have also supported. It’s certainly better than letting the country bleed out for 5 years, with half a million dead, millions displaced, and the war spilling Syria’s borders.

          • john chill

            What happens after the fall of Damascus in say, 2012, then? Do the Moderate Rebels™ set up a coalition government, or do they fight it out amongst themselves, each faction vying for power? What about the uh, less moderate rebels? Do ISIS and al-Nusra step aside and let them? Even if the various “moderate” groups under the Ahrar al Sham umbrella were able form a governing coalition to beat back ISIS and al Nusra, what happens to the Alawites? If this Aharar al Sham governing coalition commits atrocities, even acts of genocide against them in government (which they’ve already done on the battlefield), then the U.S. would have effectively installed a genocidal regime. Are we then morally obligated to intervene and stop the very government we installed? If so, what replaces them?

            No-Fly Zones are popular with a certain set of DC elites because they pose little risk of U.S. casualties and are thus much more politically viable than ground invasions or nation-building exercises, but are still a way of “doing something” and not seeming passive in the face of foreign crises. But any NFZ over Syria would have done nothing but advance the cause of overthrowing the admittedly brutal Assad regime and hoping the resulting power vacuum ended with the good guys being put in charge. Obama’s Syria policy has been kind of a mess and deserves a lot of criticism, but his decision against a NFZ was one of the few prudent moves he’s made during the crisis.

          • Guinnessmonkey

            ISIS and al Nusra were barely involved early on. Either way, worst case scenario looks a lot like Libya; hardly ideal but a lot better than the alternative.

            Early on there was serious wavering among the Alawite community; intervention at that point could have resulted in a huge portion of the Alawites joining Assad before the rebellion became overtly sectarian.

            Not installing a NFZ allowed Assad to slow down the rebels long enough to soldify his support among the Alawites and Shiites, turning this into a sectarian war in which he used airstrikes and barrel bombs to systematically ethnically cleanse the Sunni majority from large areas of Syria. Obama’s non-decision was piss poor, and the predictions of those who pushed for more involvement (predictions widely mocked by the more dovish commentariat) proved nearly universally true: the war stalemated, radicallized, and spilled its borders, destabilizing the entire region.

          • john chill

            ISIS has always been a primarily Iraqi outfit that took territory in Syria mainly because it could, but al Nusra has been heavily involved in the fighting since the early days of the civil war and, more to the point, the “moderate” Sunni rebel groups the U.S. has been backing have proven either incompetent on the battlefield, genocidal, or both. There’s no reason to think the al Sham Islamists would have been any more merciful toward Alawites or any other minority than they are now if they’d taken power in 2012. The fact that you can shrug your shoulders at Libya and say “oh well, better than Syria,” ignoring the massive demographic, political, and geographic differences between the two countries, is symptomatic of the cult of action that permeates so much of contemporary U.S. foreign policy thinking on both sides of the partisan aisle.

          • Guinnessmonkey

            Indeed; much better to do nothing and let over half a million be killed with many millions more displaced while other regional powers fan the flames.

            And again, early on there were some Alawites actually joining the rebellion, which was dominated by ex-military types and secular Syrians. That’s the period I’m talking about. Quick action then would have saved hundreds of thousands of lives. Sure, idiotic Republicans (and the far-left) would attack Obama for “causing chaos” in Syria, but sometimes a POTUS should do what’s right even if nitwits can attack them for it. If you had told the non-interventionist crowd in 2011 how bad things in Syria would be in 2016, they’d have called it ridiculous pro-war propaganda.

            I can still remember some of the same idiots claiming that a NFZ and airstrikes would do nothing in Bosnia; that we would be sucked into a Vietnam-like quagmire; that the area was so instable that war was inevitable and couldn’t be prevented (after all, these people had been killing each other for centuries, blah blah blah). More than two decades later the Dayton Accords are still holding steady, and the country has been at peace this whole time. An entire generation has grown up in a postwar Bosnia.

          • Boldizar

            They are sparkling barriers cast by wizards right??

        • malsperanza

          You know, Bernie, Not Bernie, Really, NOT Bernie, Mr. Watson, eventually the claim that any defense of Clinton, no matter how cogent and factual, is just “attributing every criticism of Clinton to sexism” starts to sound just a little limp.

      • john chill

        Hillary Clinton did not negotiate the Iran deal. She opposes a fracking ban. It may also surprise you to learn that she is, in fact, white. Bernie Sanders voted to authorize Bill Clinton to bomb Serbia to advance Kosovo’s independence, but he did not vote for the surge in “Iran,” nor the one in Iraq, which was not a congressional decision. The compulsion of some of Hillary’s most diehard supporters to viciously attack candidates to her left even after they’ve been defeated (Sanders) or pose zero threat to Clinton’s campaign (Stein) is quite telling though.

  • Pat_Pending

    I really, really like stein. Any stein will do, as long as it has beer (bier) in it.

    Oh, Jill Stein? Fuck her.

    • theCryptofishist

      Ah, an occasion to post a favorite limerick:

      THERE’S a notable family named Stein,
      There’s Gert and there’s Ep and there’s Ein.
      Gert’s prose is all bunk,
      Ep’s sculpture just junk,
      And nobody understands Ein.

      • Andrew Mossberg

        And then we have our lovely Jill,
        Who’s political but usually not shrill,
        While she don’t play the sax
        She vacillates on vax,
        And doesn’t stand a chance against Hill

    • (((dagobarbz)))

      Insert Al Franken/Jill Stein joke here.

  • I love this so much, it’s like a goddamn Valentine.

  • uniquename72

    “clean energy, money out of politics, healthcare as a human right — and they were all things Democrats are for!”

    2 of those things are demonstrably not things that the current and next Democratic presidents are for.

    • aychrist

      Bullshit. 100% bullshit. Obama is for all of those things, and so is Clinton, and demonstrably so.

      • Boldizar

        So demonstrably so that you stopped short of demonstrating. Both Clinton and Obama got where they are off of large donor/corporate funds. The ACA is nothing but an exclusive contract allowing HCPs free access to our system to drive more profits. Yay! Should we start charging Freedom of Speech insurance too? And what has any leader done to seriously impact Clean Energy Initiatives? Clinton was the first president in a line largely republican presidents before not to increase the emissions restrictions.

    • James Etling

      aychrist is right about that. Also, too….it’s going to take Congress to actually DO something to achieve those goals.

    • cat cafe

      Huh? Obama has spent more money on clean energy than any other president, to the tune of billions. Clinton has made it one of the cornerstones of her platform and worked hard on it as SOS and as Senator from NY. Obama and Clinton are both vehemently, openly, and strongly opposed to Citizens United–they have BOTH made strong speeches about it, and again, it’s part of Clinton’s platform.

      And health care???? You really want to try and say Hillary Clinton isn’t about health care? The woman who, as FLOTUS, designed, negotiated, and fully created a completely functional Universal Health Care system? And the Republicans poured millions into a campaign of lies and virulent falsehoods (“Under Hillarycare, your doctor will GO TO JAIL!”… the Harry and Louise ads?), torpedoing the whole program? And she nevertheless went on to form CHIP, a program that to this day gives millions of poor children free health care?

      She is ALL ABOUT HEALTH CARE. Will she promise you “free health care” now, with a Congress that has voted to repeal the ACA fifty times? Or will she tell you that you need to work on what is there, expand Medicare to lower ages, and step by step get to fully paid for Universal Health care that she’s been fighting for her whole life?

      And besides–what the hell do you think the ACA is about? You really want to put forward the pathetic lie that “Obama doesn’t care about health care as a human right”? C’mon, troll harder. This is just pathetic.

      • malsperanza

        <3

      • john chill

        “She is ALL ABOUT HEALTH CARE. Will she promise you “free health care” now, with a Congress that has voted to repeal the ACA fifty times? Or will she tell you that you need to work on what is there, expand Medicare to lower ages, and step by step get to fully paid for Universal Health care that she’s been fighting for her whole life?”

        Nah, she’ll probably just say healthcare as a human right will never ever happen and we should stop wasting our time with it, like she did during the primary.

        “And besides–what the hell do you think the ACA is about? You really want to put forward the pathetic lie that “Obama doesn’t care about health care as a human right”? C’mon, troll harder. This is just pathetic.”

        The ACA is a (very good!) expansion of Medicaid (that’s unfortunately been somewhat undercut by the Supreme Court and GOP governors) combined with a Rube Goldberg attempt to control costs and increase access to healthcare through a private insurance mandate and federally-managed insurances exchanges. This has failed to prevent premiums from rising significantly, and two mega-insurers have recently pulled out of the exchanges altogether. But even if you like the law, it most definitely isn’t “healthcare as a human right,” as 10% of the U.S. population remains uninsured and even more are underinsured.

    • chilisize

      When did they stop being “pie-in-the-sky”? Thinking…

  • Mark

    Between this lunatic and Uncle Tom Carson, I think we can safely say that being intelligent isn’t required to be a doctor anymore.

    • Blackest Noobs

      maybe obtaining one does require intelligence, but you start to lose as you age or get greedy or both.

  • fishskicanoe

    Sanctimonious scolds.

  • Last Hussar

    I will be subscribing to Wonkette just so I can cancel it.

    http://www.snopes.com/is-green-party-candidate-jill-stein-anti-vaccine/

    Apparently Wonkette has no problem with a government agency being controlled by the companies that companies it is supposed to regulate- which is actually her suspicion. Is it a accurate suspicion. I don’t have the proof, but then the FDA exists in 21st century America.

    • malsperanza

      Don’t expect fairness or honesty from Wonkette. Wonkette is controlled by the shadowy National Association of Snarkists, which everyone knows is a front organization for corporatist commercial snark.

      • chilisize

        “Snark.” It’s s like wit, but super predictable and deadly dull. Let me guess: Nickleback suck. But that’s no spoiler, try and follow our middlebrow bachelor-degreed vocabulary Aaron Sorkin stole some adderol run on sentences funhouse ride from nobody cares to everyone knows already. What a journey! Yay!

    • King of America

      I love that you think that one comment somehow makes it OK that she’s spreading anti-vaxxer bullshit elsewhere. But, on the other hand, SCAAARY MONSAAAAANTOOOOO (which doesn’t actually manufacture vaccines, but don’t let that stop your apologism).

    • Jill Stein enables anti-vaxxers by her silly conspiracy theory about the FDA and the CDC.

      There are many inputs into the CDC and the FDA. Included in these are the pharmaceutical companies, medical ethics review boards, the scientific community, the medical community, the patient community, Senate groups, WHO, charities and, most importantly, the medicines approvals organisations of other countries. What her ignorant conspiracy theory is saying is that all these groups are subverted by one particular element

  • Blackest Noobs

    off the subject….i need help from a cataloging librarian!!!!

    can call 911 for one?

  • LadyLaz

    ♡ love you Rebecca.

  • Charles Watson

    Somewhere on the internet, right now, a bunch of Trump supporters have spent four days arguing that Scott Baio calling Hillary Clinton a cunt isn’t sexist.

    • somewhere on the internet there are Hillary Haters and Jill Stein supporters who understand what snark is

      • Charles Watson

        Like every other moron here, you’re making my point. (Is that snarky enough for you?)

        • Ah! so you (who needs a sense of humour transplant) thinks that criticising the anti-vax panderer Jill Stein is rude. Do you also think wifi hurts kids or that Reiki, homeopathy and acupuncture are valuable additions to the health care system?

          • Charles Watson

            Point to one thing I’ve written that indicates I think it’s rude to criticize Jill Stein. I’ve stated plainly that she’s a moron, and her followers are idiots. This is about one thing, and one thing only – the use of the word “cunty” to describe a woman. The Clinton campaign and their supporters spent the last year accusing everyone who even thinks about criticizing her of misogyny. To turn around and call another woman who’s running for president “cunty” is the height of hypocrisy.

          • I think you’ve come to the wrong site. Wonkette accepts that word, it also accepts “dick” and “wanker,” We avoid words like “girly” because they imply weakness on the part of women. If Rebecca wants to change the rules she will tell us.

            You want to avoid such terms altogether go the “Pharyngula” or “We Hunted the Mammoth,” those of us who post on those sites avoid such terms there.

  • gingerland62

    Jill Stein-the woman men can vote for, and have no fear of her ever having any power. Yay!

    • Eric_Jaffa

      Are women who support Jill Stein self-hating sexists who would rather vote for a woman who won’t have power?

      • King of America

        There’s an outside chance they’re just dumb as fuck.

      • Many of them are anti-vaxxers who think that Jill Stein supports them.

  • chilisize

    I’ll say “yay” when you finally ditch your insulting and juvenile writing style. It was fucking stupid a decade back, is fucking stupid now

  • thepinkservbot

    How can you people be homeless when you have more ads on here than a fucking porno site.

  • chilisize

    Straight up, anyone who seeks advice from, praises and socializes with Henry Kissinger is the cuntiest cunt in the cuntdom

  • chilisize

    “I wish there were more details, …”

    But I haven’t time to make up any more.

  • CAESAR’S MESSIAH

    Rebecca Schoenkopf reminds me of Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity, these people are truly hurting inside and can’t help themselves but to inject us with their misery and hatefulness. I hope all of them the best. We’re all on this floating rock together.

    • Another sock puppet.

      Ever tried looking at evidence? Of course not, you just like hating women.

  • Froncek

    Why did I waste my time reading this snobbish, hateful, self-serving, cry for validation and attention?

    • jmhm

      Because your friends wrote it and you had to know what to upvote.

    • For the same reason I read the whining, selfish, thick headed comments by misogynist Hillary Haters.

    • doktorzoom

      Because Julian Assange told you to, and you now feel very superior to the terrible hateful snob who wrote it?

      — Dok Zoom, Yr Friendly Neighborhood Comments Moderator

  • Seedee Vee

    Cunts For Hillary 2016

    • Simon
    • WomanInAMood

      What do you mean?

      • Seedee Vee

        “Did we accidentally call Jill Stein “cunty”? Not so much by accident!”

        “But seriously, fuck Jill Stein, that mendacious nihilist piece of shit.”

        What could I have meant . . . . .

        • King of America

          Now tell us about how black people can’t use the N-word in their “hippity-hop” music (which is just noise).

          • Seedee Vee

            Hillary knows where to put those Super Predators!

          • King of America

            Yes, I get that you will reiterate literally any right-wing talking point. It’s because you’re fucking garbage.

            I hope that helps!

          • Seedee Vee

            How would you fuck garbage?

            Anyways, “Super Predators” is Hillary Clinton’s far-right talking point. Glad you are conscious enough to notice the history of that evil crone.

          • Twisted little knickers thinks it’s clever.

            TLK doesn’t actually fact check.

          • Seedee Vee

            That didn’t rhyme.

          • If I want a good time
            It’s easy to rhyme
            about a small dick
            who eats his own sick.
            and tried to be clever
            but failed that endeavour.

          • Seedee Vee

            Quit writing about yourself. It’s a little embarrassing.

          • But, dumbass thicko
            you are the sicko
            first called a dick
            because of your schtick

          • jmhm

            You mean her husband’s crime bill that Bernie Sanders not only supported, he made it the centerpiece of his campaign?

          • Seedee Vee

            I find it hard to believe that Bernie Sanders ran for President on the centerpiece of a Clinton triangulation/Democratic Party murdering crime bill.

          • King of America

            Yes, I expect there’s lots of things you find hard to believe.

          • jmhm

            Nope. For congress. And you find it hard to believe because you know nothing about the records of the players here, just some Republican talking points Tim Tagaris fed you.

          • Seedee Vee

            No.

          • jmhm

            Why, yes! And not only is it 100% true, it’s common knowledge which he was bragging on as recently as 2006 :)

            But then, as a fairly obvious young Trump troll, you would have no reason to know anything about progressive politics.

            https://www.yahoo.com/news/sanders-now-a-reformer-once-boasted-of-being-223600102.html
            https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/02/12/1994-crime-bill-haunts-clinton-and-sanders-as-criminal-justice-reform-rises-to-top-in-democratic-contest/

          • Seedee Vee

            Your cunthair deep inquiry into the motivations of Bernie Sanders is not convincing.

          • King of America

            Nice sexism bro

          • Seedee Vee

            You wouldn’t know a real woman if she sat on your face.

          • King of America

            See previous post.

          • Seedee Vee

            You didn’t sit there either.

          • Still unable to think, I see.

            Go away and take your meds

          • Seedee Vee

            At least I don’t need my personal Diazepam jockey.

          • You mean like your hero Donut Turnip?

          • King of America

            See previous two posts.

          • jmhm

            and you can lie on the floor of the supermarket and have a nice noisy tantrum, but the established facts won’t change.

          • Seedee Vee

            You know, the sign of a lazy writer is always using examples from your own personal life in your work. You are a lazy writer.

          • jmhm

            Nah. Pasting takes lots fewer keys.

          • But you find it easy to believe any bit of Republican propaganda you are fed …

            Could it be you are demented or irrational?

            Yes

          • Seedee Vee

            The only Republican propaganda we are fed are the ones when Bill and Hillary take a Republican policy and call it a Democratic Party one.

          • King of America

            That bullshit aside (the Republicans sure haven’t spent hundreds of millions of dollars over three decades attacking the Clintons because they AGREE, you dumb shit), what I’d really like you to back up your fucking lie that the Clinton Foundation is “massively corrupt”.

            Of course, you cannot.

          • Seedee Vee

            $250 MILLION IN “SPEAKING” FEES

          • The fees went, largely, to the Clinton Foundation.

            Most of the speeches were about (and in favour of) progressive causes.

            People also give Donald Trump large amounts of money for speaking and TV appearances.

            People also give Jill Stein and Bernie Sanders large amounts of money in appearance fees – SO WHAT?

          • King of America

            What does that have to do with my question? I mean, I get that JAQing off is all you have, but seriously.

          • Seedee Vee

            Who the fuck cares about your questions?

          • King of America

            You do, obviously, because you can’t answer them (because your claims are 100% unmitigated bullshit).

          • WomanInAMood

            I CAN USE ALL CAPS TOO! AND YOU ARE A IDIOT!

          • Seedee Vee

            IT STILL DOESN”T MAKE IT LESS THAN $250 MILLION IN SPEAKING FEES!

          • King of America

            WHY DO YOU THINK THAT HILLARY CLINTON GETTING PAID TO MAKE SPEECHES ABOUT WOMEN IN EXECUTIVE POSITIONS PROVES ANYTHING ABOUT THE CLINTON FOUNDATION?

            (hint: the answer is because you’re a sexist moron)

          • Seedee Vee

            Why do you think I care that Hillary Clinton is a money-grubbing influence peddling war mongering harpy?

          • King of America

            I don’t care about your sexism. Why can you never provide any evidence for your claims? Some people are saying it’s because they’re dumb bullshit.

          • WomanInAMood

            IT STILL DOES NOT MAKE YOU LESS OF A IDIOT!

          • Seedee Vee

            The Clintons will never make anyone less of an idiot. That is why I hate them.

          • King of America

            The Clintons aren’t responsible for how the education system failed you.

            I hope that helps!

          • King of America

            So Sanders, who voted for that crime bill and against immigration reform, is twice as repugnant.

            Got it, thanks.

          • Seedee Vee

            How many more Iraqs is Hillary gonna get you?

          • None.

          • Seedee Vee

            Yeah, She wants to be famous for starting a war with Russia or Iran.

          • King of America

            Does she? Weird, how do you know this? Because it’s not something she’s ever said or implied.

          • Seedee Vee

            You don’t ever read anything, do you? It’s all told to you and you just repeat it.

          • King of America

            That’s not answering the question. How do you know this amazing “fact” you invented?

          • Seedee Vee

            The fact that your Hillary Hasbarism is boring? That fact?

          • King of America

            No, your bizarre claim that she wants to “be famous” (she’s already famous, btw) for starting a war. That aside, I’d really like you to back up your claim that the Clinton Foundation is “massively corrupt”.

            You no-dick-having craven sack of testicles.

          • WomanInAMood

            Uh, dude? Kindly rethink that whole “no-dick-having” thing.

          • King of America

            No-dick-having-but-claiming-to-have-a-dick?

          • WomanInAMood

            Excuse me?

          • King of America

            I was trying to improve it. It wasn’t a very good line, obviously.

          • WomanInAMood

            We are each others huckleberries. No offense taken, just a bit of confusion. And what is up with this one?

          • King of America

            No worries, I’m a little drunk right now.

            Anyway, he (it is almost definitely a he) is mad about the ladies. I can prove this using maths, probably.

          • WomanInAMood

            Well, it just said something about a”cunt hair deep inquiry”. That is not mad about the ladies in a good way.
            And I may have had a glass or two myself.

          • Seedee Vee

            She sure is famous for starting a war. Thanks for agreeing with me on that one.

          • King of America

            What war did she start? Was she President and I didn’t notice? Are you high? Also I’d really like you to back up your fucking lie that the Clinton Foundation is “massively corrupt”.

            I bet you cannot (spoiler: you cannot).

          • Seedee Vee

            Hey, you said she was famous for starting a war too. And that fake charity, the Clinton foundation? It’s a slush fund for payments for favors given and favors to give.

          • King of America

            Sorry you have to lie about things I’ve never said, and cannot back up your idiotic claims. It’s because you’re a fucking coward, of course.

          • Seedee Vee

            A Clinton Hasbarist is never done.

          • King of America

            A better answer would have been to quote where I said that, then linked to some evidence that the Clinton Foundation is “massively corrupt”.

            Of course, you can’t do either.

          • Seedee Vee

            Listen, tomatohead. I’ll be back in a while. We can discuss the massively corrupt Clinton Foundation and how that personal Clinton Family Slush Fund slushes the funds of Saudi Princes, Russian Oligarchs, Chinese Businessmen, racist Zionists (is there any other kind?) and the stray New York Banker.

          • King of America

            A better answer would have been to quote where I said that (you can’t) and link to some evidence that the Clinton Foundation – the CHARITY YOU ARE FUCKING BADMOUTHING TO GET YOUR MANBABY WAY – is “massively corrupt” (you can’t do that either).

            Sorry that you’re impotent.

          • Seedee Vee

            I’m sorry. I was too busy moving those million dollar checks for the massively corrupt Clinton Foundation that are from Saudi Princes and that in no way shape or form have anything to do with forgetting how Saudi Princes are the most sexist and socially regressive people on the planet

          • King of America

            See previous post. Doubling down on your lies doesn’t make them truthier, sorry. You can’t provide a link because you are wrong and stupid.

            I hope that helps!

          • Evidence

          • anti-Semite

          • Look Canine Distemper virus you are just repeating yourself. Now, even simple software trolls can do better

          • Seedee Vee

            Little Hillary Hasbarist needs to find a Russian lover.

          • Ah! anti-Semitic too.

          • WomanInAMood

            Why are you here? Are you trying to win friends and influence people? Are you just bored? Things are little too tame at mediaite and alternet? Please find a new hobby – I am told that crochet is very soothing, you humorless dullard.

          • Seedee Vee

            Why do you care? Did your cat die?

          • WomanInAMood

            I don’t have a cat, and haven’t in many years. I am simply perplexed. What sad little motive do you have to be here?

          • Seedee Vee

            I don’t like cunty writers.

          • King of America

            Yes, you ARE sexist. We’ve covered that.

          • WomanInAMood

            Why do you keep using this word? Do you think that us delicate little feminists will faint if we hear the word Cunt? Do you think that it adds gravitas to your complaint? Do you think that cunt is a dirty, bad word and it gives you trembles in your bathing suit parts? What is the point, you sad little person?

          • King of America

            Is that the best you’ve got? Blaming her for the actions of Dubya, that Sanders voted to fund?

          • Seedee Vee

            That the best you got? Blaming Sanders and Bush for Hillary’s vote?

          • King of America

            How do you justify Sanders voting against immigration reform, or against gun reform, or his efforts to move F35 manufacture to his home state? Oh right, you don’t – those never happened on your idiot planet.

          • Seedee Vee

            Ask Sanders. Hillary Clinton is still a grifting threat to humanity.

          • King of America

            So you can’t. Got it.

          • Seedee Vee

            Hillary Clinton is still a grifting Harpy of Right Wing demagoguery.

          • King of America

            That’s fine, but I’d really like you to back up your claim that the Clinton Foundation is “massively corrupt”.

            You six-toed buck-toothed hayseed.

          • Seedee Vee

            We have orthidonture where I come from. No one is buck toothed. Now, I guess all the good ol’ boys in Arkansas you play around with might think pig fucking is a better choice than Hillary. I sure do.

          • King of America

            OK, didn’t think you had any basis for your outright lie. It’s amazing that you think that you can make up stuff about A FUCKING CHARITY but still be taken seriously.

          • But inbreeding such as yours cannot be cured by simple dentistry because those teeth regrow.

          • Seedee Vee

            Bill Clinton is the hillbilly. I say we really better watch out for Chelsea. Who knows what kind of nastiness was spawned from Hillary and whatever donor she got.

          • King of America

            “Let me change the topic to CLINTON SMEARS”.

            You got nothing. Impotent.

          • Seedee Vee

            CLINTON SMEARS = blue dress

          • Ah so a perfectly legal sexual encounter between 2 consenting adults is icky.

          • King of America

            You got nothing. Impotent.

          • Ah! so Misogynist, bigot and anti-semite.

            Can racism be far behind?

  • Boldizar

    “..when we voted for Nader and then became immediately… very very sorry.”

    That tells me you did not vote honestly then. Voting for the candidate you believe is the right choice is never regrettable, regardless of the outcome. You are not responsible for other people’s votes.

    “…they were all things Democrats are for!”

    Since when did the Democrats fight for getting money out of politics? Hillary Clinton represents a giant laundering firm and has campaigned out of corporation’s pockets. When did they last fight for healthcare? You mean the time they gave HMO’s exclusive access to contracts then forced low income people to buy into plans? How about in Colorado where the Democrats actively fight against single payer initiatives?

    “…fighting LIKE A MAN.”

    That’s right… sexism is okay sometimes. “You are allowed to act like a typical male stereotype only when I say so.”

    The Ann Coulter for Democrats who want to pretend their party isn’t the new Republican party. I think this canvasser got a first hand experience in what being cunty really means.

    Score one for the Hillary-Bros! Because this is the exact, unsupported by fact, blind, slanderous rhetoric filled garbage his supporters were accused of. I guess it is okay now.

    • Voting to enable a victory for regression is never honest, it is selfish.

      Ah! the new knee jerk response. How do you get money out of politics with the Supreme Court voting for Citizens United? You need a new left wing Supreme Court. To get that you need to vote for Hillary Clinton – or are you too selfish?

      You really do not get Snark, do you?

      Try getting a brain and a sense of humour.

    • jmhm

      It’s kind of adorable that you haven’t taken a moment to look at what you tracked in with you and you’re attempting to disown the existence of bros.

  • Remember: The 60,000 registered democrats who voted for Nader in Florida are to blame for Bush winning, not the ambien-voiced whiny scold Democratic candidate who ran a listless campaign with a Neo-Conservative as a running mate, causing 300,000 registered Democrats to vote for George W. Bush in Florida .

    • BTW, a majority of the registered Democrats who voted for Nader in Florida would have voted for Bush over Gore if Nader didn’t run.

      Oops, your old, flimsy excuse for losing sucks.

      • King of America

        OK, thanks for dropping by to mansplain why you’re supporting Trump.

        • WomanInAMood

          Notice how they all have boatloads of upvotes? This, and I know how paranoid this may sound, seems a bit organized.

          • King of America

            Like I said, 20 new posters hitting the site in half a day. Odds are a link was posted on some anti-science woo site.

          • WomanInAMood

            Yeah, but this is not a random bunch of losers. They are all up voting each other, and I will say, even though I dislike Jill Stein very much, I doubt that cunt would be such a big part of her supporters’ vocabulary.

          • King of America

            Rebecca used it in the article, and OBVIOUSLY women aren’t allowed to own that word for themselves.

          • WomanInAMood

            I use that word, and I am a girl. What I am saying is that this seems a lot more organized than the usual troll stampede. And that I just am not getting “Steiny” vibes off of this. This is really odd.

          • King of America

            It’s Bernie or Busters. They don’t give a fuck about Stein, or any progressive cause – they just hate Clinton because they’re fucked in the head in multiple ways.

          • Seedee Vee

            There are a thousand ways and reasons to hate a Clinton.

          • King of America

            None of which aren’t from a Koch-brothers-sourced book of conspiracy theories, but you do you.

          • Seedee Vee

            But you do you better.

          • King of America

            I do, but then I’m not an ignorant self-righteous prick.

            I hope that helps!

          • That applies to any human.

            But Hillary has a lifetime of supporting and enabling progressive causes, unlike the Hillary Haters who claim to be BoBs

          • Seedee Vee

            Clinton Progressive Causes

            Welfare Reform
            Massively Expanding the police/prison industry in America
            Bombing Sudanese Pharmaceutical Plants
            Bombing Yugoslavia
            Bombing Libya
            Bombing Syria
            Bombing Iraq
            Bombing Afghanistan
            Don’t Ask/Don’t tell
            NAFTA
            Board of Directors – Walmart
            $250 MILLION in “speaking fees”
            The massively corrupt Clinton Foundation
            and on and on and on

          • King of America

            Thanks for letting us know that women aren’t allowed to make money.

          • Seedee Vee

            Thanks for letting us know that tomatoes are the stupidest plant life on Earth.

          • King of America

            Ah, nothing to fall back on but personal abuse. What a surprise.

          • King of America

            Also, it’s great to know you’ll attack a FUCKING CHARITY with debunked Koch brothers conspiracy theories in order to get your way.

            As I said before, you are fucking garbage.

          • Seedee Vee

            The Clintons are not a charity no matter how many caps you use.

          • King of America

            The Clinton Foundation is a charity. You just called it “massively corrupt”. BACK THAT UP WITH FACTS. Oh right, you can’t, because – like all your crap – it is 100% pure bullshit.

          • But the Clinton Foundation is a charity with independent oversight – which is why you haters can find out about donations so easily and so easily ignore where the money actually goes

          • Look, shithead

            Hillary Clinton supports

            minimum wage legislation
            reproductive rights
            marriage equality
            more renewable energy
            strong environmental controls on power stations
            much stronger regulation of fracking
            the Paris Accords
            a Supreme Court with a left of centre majority

            Donald Trump supports

            deportations
            reduced regulation of all business
            removal of marriage equality
            removal of minimum wage legislation
            removal of fair pay legislation
            establishing a religious test for office (Muslims need not apply)
            abortion restrictions
            breaking the Paris Accords
            packing the Supreme Court
            subsidising coal production
            removing subsidy from all renewable energy production
            removing environmental controls
            sale of Federal lands and allowing their despoilation

          • Seedee Vee

            Look, dickface

            Hillary Clinton “supports” whatever the fuck she thinks will get her ahead. She is a soulless harpy preying on the world. A vampire would be an improvement.

          • King of America

            Sorry you couldn’t back that up without being a sexist fuck.
            Better luck next screed!

          • Seedee Vee

            Better than fucking garbage, you sociopath.

          • King of America

            It’s great that you’re admitting you’re a sexist, but I don’t see how my mental state justifies that. Anyway, I’d really like you to back up your claim that the Clinton Foundation is “massively corrupt”.

            You oblong.

          • Seedee Vee

            Hey, I didn’t say it was bad you are a sociopath. I said it is bad that Hillary Clinton is a sociopath and is running for President of the United States.

          • King of America

            OK sorry you think that made any sense. That aside, I’d really like you to back up your fucking lie that the Clinton Foundation is “massively corrupt”.

            You lying-about-a-charity fuck.

          • Seedee Vee

            The only lie is that the Clinton Foundation is a charity. It is a slush fund for the Clintons.

          • King of America

            That’s not justifying your claim, that’s just making another (even more outrageous) one.

            Here are all the financial and tax records for the Clinton Foundation, dating back to 1998. Can you point out the parts where any money has EVER gone to the Clintons? (Spoiler: you obviously can’t, as you are credulously repeating long-since debunked lies published by the Koch brothers).

            https://www.clintonfoundation.org/about/annual-financial-reports

          • Msgr_Moment

            God, you ARE tedious. Answer the King’s question, please?

          • King of America

            Don’t hold your breath. Even the original source – Peter Schweizer – ended up retracting most of them before the book got published. Not that that will stop a Bernie Bro, though.

          • No, dear. You alone in your basement with dirty depends is the mark of a sociopath.

          • Seedee Vee

            And yet you are the one postulating about people “alone in your basement with dirty depends”. What a mind you have. Hillary is counting on more people just like you.

          • I’ve had to carry out interventions on poor misfits like yourself, so it’s easy to judge.

          • You mean her entire career supporting progressive causes and being subject to slanderous and unjustified Republican attacks (such as those you are now using) is meaningless

            You are as dumb as a Trump Supporter on a hoveround

          • Seedee Vee

            Her entire career of being on the Board of Directors of Walmart, supporting the military overthrow of numerous governments, supporting welfare reform that threw millions of people off of assistance, supporting the vast growth of our prison/police industry, supporting the bailing out of the richest bankers in the world? That progressive Hillary Clinton?

          • King of America

            That’s fine (mostly lies, but whatever), but I’d really like you to back up your claim that the Clinton Foundation is “massively corrupt”.

            You dickless coward.

          • Seedee Vee

            You cuntless fantasist. Would you accept “marginally corrupt” as easily provable?

          • King of America

            I’m sorry, abuse isn’t answering the question. You claimed the Clinton Foundation was “massively corrupt”. What is your basis for that outrageously false claim about a charity? Probably you meant to answer but somehow forgot, you amnesiac toad-fucker.

          • Seedee Vee

            It is outrageously false to claim the Clinton Foundation is a charity.

          • King of America

            What is your basis for that lie? This would be an easy question to answer if there were any truth to your claim (there isn’t).

          • Seedee Vee

            No no. The lie is that the Clinton Foundation is a charity and not a personal family slush fund.

          • King of America

            CITATION NEEDED.

            (spoiler: you won’t be able to provide one).

          • Nope, her career of working for the rights of women, children and minorities through her legal and political careers.

            Contrast with Bernie or Jill or Trump.

          • Seedee Vee

            I hear the Walmart board loved her for screwing over the little guy.

          • Nope, that appointment ended 24 years ago and was an attempt by Hillary to move the Walmart corporation into becoming more progressive. She failed and is restrained from talking about it by non-disclosure agreements.

          • WomanInAMood

            Well, one of them just called Jill Stein cunty.

            I’m serious. Look at how many upvotes these people have on thier posts. This is organized.

          • King of America

            Right, I’m really just saying they’re not MRAs – they’re the left-wing kind of misogynist.

          • WomanInAMood

            No, they aren’t MRAS, that would require a level of organization that MRAs can’t do. This is seriously creepy.

          • King of America

            In my time, I’ve taken on 9/11 truthers, Gamergaters, MRAs, anti-vaxxers, and a dozen other stripes of ignorant fanatic. The only ones that have ever stalked me, and threatened my family, have been Bernie-or-Busters.

            Make of that what you will.

          • WomanInAMood

            I completely respect that. My only points that this group seems unlike most groups of Bobs. For one thing, the Busters don’t seem to be this organized. And I’m sorry that you went through anything like that.

          • jmhm

            I think you’re discounting the obvious, which is of course bored flying monkeys jerking off for each other.

          • WomanInAMood

            Yeah, you are probably right. But I find it a wee bit suspicious that they all came here at the same time, upvoted each other like horny chimps, and all had the same vocabulary.

          • jmhm

            Nah, I think that’s covered by bored children, most likely overseas, given the timing.

          • berkeleyfarm

            Flag as many as you can and maybe Doc/Shy will be able to check the posting IPs on them.

          • berkeleyfarm

            Although at least one of them has a comment history where he is whining about SJW. Mind you, the BoB/Gamergate groups are definitely intersecting (to a large degree) venn diagrams.

          • Seedee Vee

            No, dumbfuck. Glenn Greenwald mentioned the cunty author of this article.

          • King of America

            I can’t believe a NYT journalist has a grudge against the Clintons, that is deeply surprising.

          • Seedee Vee

            NYT? They are the Clintons best friends after CNN.

          • King of America

            ahahahahaha what

            what is the weather like in your home dimension?

          • Seedee Vee

            Ok ok. The Clintons best friends, in descending order

            Benny Netanyahu
            Henry Kisssinger
            Hosni Mubarak
            (any banker with a check)
            CNN
            (any banker promising a check at a future date)
            The Saudi Royal Family
            The NYT

          • King of America

            Yes, I get that you’re dumb as hell and will regurgitate any Fox News bullshit you hear as long as it agrees with your pre-conceived biases. Appealing to condescending suckers is their entire business model.

          • jmhm

            Right. Clinton spent all that time brokering the Oslo Accord because he was planning for his BFF Netanyahu to have Rabin assassinated so the whole messy peace thing would go away.

            Jesus, you children don’t even look this shit up before you paste it.

          • King of America

            I can’t wait till he mansplains how Clinton was the beneficiary of Citizens United.

          • Seedee Vee

            I’m old enough to remember the Democratic Party before the Clintons lost our decades old control of the House by running as right wing dirt bags, sweetie pie poopkins.

          • King of America

            That’s fine, but I’d really like you to back up your claim that the Clinton Foundation is “massively corrupt”.

            You piece of shit.

          • jmhm

            So, just not very bright and incurious, huh. And failing of memory, since Clinton spent most of his first term trying to triangulate his way back from attempts at real progressive change which were soundly rebuffed by a congress which wasn’t interested in progressive change. You know, when the Democrats spiked Hillary’s attempt at single-payer to put the outsiders in their place. Then the do-nothing silverback fuckers got midtermed.

            But I give you credit for feeling strongly about the injustice of all the bad things the Clintons must have done even if you can’t be bothered to check if they happened. If you weren’t a proud purveyor of dangerous proud ignorance it would be very admirable.

            Hey, is it true that in Russia the internet trolls you?

          • Seedee Vee

            Bill Clinton spent most of his time banging chicks, wetting cigars and planning on how many millions he could get for giving speeches to rich bankers.

          • jmhm

            Awesome. I love it when a particularly prolix troll concedes that they’ve been embarassingly routed on the facts.

          • Seedee Vee

            Ohh, how cute . You write stories about trolls. Do you think your mother will love you now?

          • jmhm

            I think that you’re not nearly as clever a child as you imagine you are, and that you should probably declare victory and flounce.

          • Seedee Vee

            I agree that you are not quite as smart as your mom always wished you would be.

          • jmhm

            Wow. The rubber-glue feint. Bet it still has that new car smell for you, huh.

          • Seedee Vee

            Don’t Stop.

            (Now, read that backwards)

          • jmhm

            Don’t worry, if you still want to, when you’re a little older you’ll get a chance to try that with someone else in the room.

            At least, you will if your appearance is far more attractive than your personality or your social skills improve.

          • King of America

            “Stop Don’t”?

            Did that response make sense to you when you posted it?

          • Seedee Vee

            I guess you claim to not understand that phrase after each of your little rapey episodes, either.

          • So you are a rapist as well

          • Also still no evidence about the Clinton Foundation

          • WomanInAMood

            Are you accusing KofA of being a rapist?

          • King of America

            Hahaha holy shit.

            Fuck you.

          • King of America

            “I KNOW YOU ARE BUT WHAT AM I”.

            amazing.

          • King of America

            He also ran the economy better than any other President in the last hundred years and did more for the progressive movement than you’ll ever manage with your condescending bullshit internet posts. Anyway, what I’d really like you to back up your fucking lie that the Clinton Foundation is “massively corrupt”.

            Can you do that? (No, it is a lie).

          • Seedee Vee

            “He also ran the economy better than any other President in the last hundred years”

            HAhahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahHAhahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah. Ahh, that one never gets old.

            Almost as good as “Clinton is the most experienced and best prepared candidate in history”

          • King of America

            Yes, I get that you can never justify your claims. That’s why, despite at least twenty requests, you still can’t point out any instance of “massive corruption” on the part of the Clinton Foundation.

          • jmhm

            Eh. It wasn’t told there would be civics.

          • Seedee Vee

            The massively corrupt Clinton Foundation? You need more information on that fake charity?

          • King of America

            I do! Link please. I bet you cannot provide something that is 1) remotely true and 2) not sourced from the extreme right-wing.

          • Nope.

          • Seedee Vee

            Yup.

          • Funny how he got all that work done

            Longest economic expansion in American history

            More than 22 million new jobs

            A strong economy and fiscal discipline kept interest rates low, making it possible for more families to buy homes.

            The homeownership rate increased from 64.2 percent in 1992 to 67. 7 percent, the highest rate ever.

            Lowest unemployment in 30 years

            Unemployment for African Americans and Hispanics fell to the lowest rates on record, and the rate for women is the lowest in more than 40 years.

            Raised education standards, increased school choice, and doubled education and training investment

            Largest expansion of college opportunity since the GI Bill

            Connected 95 percent of schools to the Internet

            Lowest crime rate in 26 years

            Enacted most sweeping gun safety legislation in a generation

            Family and Medical Leave Act for 20 million Americans

            Smallest welfare rolls in 32 years

            Higher incomes at all levels

            Lowest poverty rate in 20 years

            Lowest teen birth rate in 60 years

            Lowest infant mortality rate in American history

            Deactivated more than 1,700 nuclear warheads from the former Soviet Union

            Protected millions of acres of American land: he has protected 5 new national parks, designated 11 new national monuments and expanded two others and proposed protections for 60 million acres of roadless areas in America’s national forests.

            Paid off $360 billion of the national debt

            Lowest government spending in three decades

            Most diverse cabinet in American history

          • Nice slander. Let me consult the Earth Ray Thought Forces*
            Ah yes! fresh shit indicates you have just pulled that from your prolapsed ass.

            ++++++++++++++++++++
            * Thanks to Joyce Grenfell

          • Seedee Vee

            It is impossible to slander a Clinton.

          • King of America

            So you can’t back up any of those claims either. Got it.

          • Seedee Vee

            So I don’t have to jump when you say so. Got it?

          • King of America

            That’s fine, but I’d really like you to back up your claim that the Clinton Foundation is “massively corrupt”.

            You malodorous dong.

          • Seedee Vee

            No. That is the name of my band, though.

          • King of America

            That’s fine, but I’d really like you to back up your claim that the Clinton Foundation is “massively corrupt”.

            You unfunny 90s child.

          • Seedee Vee

            I am older than you, but not 1890s older.

          • King of America

            Haha I get it – you can’t back up your lie so (stupid unfunny joke).

          • Still no evidence, brush your teeth (all of them) and get back to us.

          • Seedee Vee

            I’ll be thinking of you when I floss.

          • You can fit floss in that overcrowded mouth?

          • jmhm

            Ah, but when you have, you’ve been not just wrong but pulling the wrongness from the hairy little fists of the monkeys flying out of your ignorant ass. You know nothing about the politician you pretend to support, you know nothing about the politician you’re attacking, you know nothing about US politics, and you’re really bad at pretending to be older than you are.

          • Seedee Vee

            Please tell me about that politician I pretend to support. He/She sounds like a winner.

            No one my age would write like your style — an over-caffeinated teenager

          • jmhm

            No. You’re right. No-one your age would write [in] my style. But your english teacher will keep assigning you books written by grownups to read and some day you might.

          • Major_Major_Major

            You forgot:
            The Illuminati
            Cthulu
            Expired coupons
            That weird guy in the neighborhood that hoards newspapers
            Leaded gasoline
            Puppy mill operators

          • jmhm

            Wow. I haven’t encountered that level of wilful ignorance since the whole Andrea Mitchell is in the tank for the Clinton family debacle earlier this year.

          • Msgr_Moment

            Stupid liebural media.

          • jmhm

            It’s truly tragic that Glenn has ended up in a position where the best he can do for fellow travellers is internet bottom-feeders, a translucent rapist, Rand Paul and a soviet government which would gleefully send his family to a camp.

            That said, I still vote reddit.

          • Msgr_Moment

            Are you seeing someone for your anger issues? I think you should.

          • Seedee Vee

            Hillary Clinton is the only person I see for my anger issues.

          • AH! so you are demented

          • Msgr_Moment

            It’s a lot of pageclicks. Advertisers love those.

            Thanks, guys!

          • It is, I suspect Reddit

          • WomanInAMood

            It’s like cheerleaders, with pom-poms. I am suspicious of posters who have never been here before having fifteen upvotes. A cynical soul, I am.

          • King of America

            Ah. Child molesters. That makes sense.

          • berkeleyfarm

            Ah. I was noting timestamps and a lot of them appeared at once, so figured someone had put out the Bat(shit) Signal somewhere. Reddit brigading sounds plausible.

          • doktorzoom

            Nah, Glenn Greenwald tweeted about the article.

          • WomanInAMood

            Ah.

        • Notice I didn’t call a woman a “cunt” 3 times!

          • King of America

            I don’t care how you justify why you support Trump to yourself; you’re garbage regardless of the reasons.

            I hope that helps!

    • Ah! Scared of being called out for what you are: a Republican enabling believer in a violent left-wing revolution that will never happen

      • ?? You literally didn’t address my post at all, so I’ll have to assume that you’re some kind of bot that posts pro-Hillary memes.

        • Why should I address a fact free spew of nonsense?

          The simple truth is that you no longer believe in the democratic process and think that voting third party is somehow positive.

          As in 2000 the current danger is a vile Republican nominee and platform and if he wins you want to blame anyone else except those who failed to vote for the more tolerant candidate

  • Proud-Reptilian ’16

    A self-congratulatory essay about the author’s own unwarranted sense of superiority. Now that’s good content.

    • But the sense of superiority came, as usual, from Steinways such as yourself.

    • Msgr_Moment

      Thanks for the pageclicks.

      • King of America

        Shhhhhhhh. They’re paying for my Wonkette habit and I am OK with that.

    • Longstreet63

      Miller time!

    • doktorzoom

      I like the username and the actual sockpuppet in the profile pic, at least.

      — Dok Zoom, Yr Friendly Neighborhood Comments Moderator

  • b_connell

    Just to recap here are the things you mentioned democrats are for:

    Hillary Clinton: Single-payer health care will “never, ever” happen — http://www.cbsnews.com/news/hillary-clinton-single-payer-health-care-will-never-ever-happen/

    Democrats Vote Against Adding Fracking Ban to Platform — https://shadowproof.com/2016/06/25/clinton-democrats-block-fracking-ban/

    Obama Celebrates Nine Years of Doing Nothing About Money in Politics — https://theintercept.com/2016/02/10/obama-celebrates-nine-years-of-doing-nothing-about-money-in-politics/

    • King of America

      Jesus fucking Christ, you people are amazing.

      • jmhm

        Well, they did say the roaches would be flying, where by roaches I of course mean bored lulzing redditors with white penii and burner accounts. It’s not as if any of them were going to vote anyway.

      • WomanInAMood

        Amazing, as in stupid, yes. What is this? It’s like something from The Excercist. And it even has projectile vomiting. Of the verbal sort.

    • Single payer healthcare will never happen until the entire culture of the USA changes and until the laws on restraint of trade are amended. Read for context, shit fer brainz.

      Hillary supports stronger regulation of fracking but recognises it cannot be shut down immediately because fracked gas is currently needed to shut down nuclear and coal fired generation. Steinways believe in magic.

      Ever look at the obstacles Obama faces? Like the Supreme Court? Of course not, history and simple politics is utterly beyond you.

      • b_connell

        I think the more appropriate way to interpret these things is the DNC electing to move right as opposed to the opposite. It’s entirely understandable given party leadership and donors. But it continues to cast(e) and steer the party towards a more centrist/corporatist outlook. This serves our current economic winners well but does little to help ever increasing demographics caught in stagnation or decline.

        In my estimation, the result of this election would always be the fracturing of at least one if not both our major parties. But Dems wounds will largely be self-inflicted by the abandonment of the majority of their constituents needs in favor or status quo enrichment of the political class. Whether its Greens, another party, or something new altogether, I think a large number of young voters and progressives will seek other political affiliations and never return.

        Perhaps another outcome will emerge but that’s my current take. Utterly lol.

    • Msgr_Moment

      As soon as you guys elect all your Green Party Senators and Congresspersons, so that Dr. Stein can push through her agenda, it’ll all be unicorns and blowjobs. Wishing you Godspeed, Sir or Madam.

  • Jezzer

    I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone throw the word “cunty” around with this little self-awareness before.

    • smkngman3

      Looking in the mirror is aware.

  • RageInEden606

    This is genuinely like reading something from an asylum. I’m so happy not be an American.

    • Well I hope you are nowhere near me.

      Jill Stein supporters lower property values.

    • jmhm

      The thought of your being ineligible to vote in US elections makes me all glowy too.

  • SatanicSponge

    What misogynist tripe this article is. Isn’t “satire” supposed to be funny?

    • What a dick brained twonk you are. Supporting womens causes and female candidates is not misogyny.

      On the other hand Jill Stein supporters are funny – in a “Cheetos Crisp almighty! Are they really that dumb?” sense

  • DK

    A “Hillary Family”? Is that like “Manson Family”?

    • Nope, the Hillary Family cares. The Trump Family is into abuse and the Stein Family refuses modern medication in favour of homeopathy, reiki and accupuncture.

      • DK

        LOL. The “Hillary Family” cares alright. To find out about what, just search “Clinton Foundation” and “government investigation.”

    • Msgr_Moment

      Read your Tolstoy. You should know this.

  • John MV

    Maybe Team Wonkette is salty, it must sting to have spent the last decade and a half the lib-fem-o-sphere, building brand and audience among millennial women only to have millennial women decamp en masse for Bernie Sanders. All that energy, and all that time gone to waste, meanwhile you didn’t even make a dent with the force of your ideas. I would be butthurt while homeless too. Better luck this decade :)

    • King of America

      The bulk of Sanders supporters – 65+% – were male. On the other hand, 55% of Clinton supporters were female.

      I hope that helps! Let me know if you have any other delusions!

      • jmhm

        Sone of Clinton’s supporters aren’t white. I think that only counts in Guam. You’d have to ask the Stein campaign. I’m pretty sure that’s where that lovely Mr Robbins ended up.

        • King of America

          I was saving the fact that only white millennials voted for Sanders in any significant numbers for the next post, but yeah. Some fucking revolution.

          • jmhm

            There was an article in the Times yeterday by Tom Edsall mourning the Democrats abandoning The Left, which he apparently defines as economically-insecure racist white folks. It’s not an accident that the ded-end kids are mourning ‘FDR liberalism.’ It’s literally economic stimulus for white people only.

          • King of America

            FDR, as I never tire of pointing out, was racist as fuck, and his New Deal was only ever introduced because he couldn’t think of any other alternative to welfare (which he despised). It’s no coincidence that these people hero-worship him.

          • jmhm

            He married well, at least.

      • John MV

        M-I-L-L-E-N-N-I-A-L women. Millennial women. MILLENIAL. WOMEN.

        Maybe now you can read what I said, moron.

        Whole google search:

        https://www.google.com/#q=Bernie+Sanders+millennial+women

        Top hit: https://newrepublic.com/article/129483/millennial-women-gravitating-bernie-sanders

        Money quote: “Rolling poll data from Reuters shows that Sanders does especially well among young white women, though he dominates the youth in virtually every group. Taken together, 61 percent of young women support Sanders, versus 28 percent who support Clinton.”

        Of course, you probably aren’t a complete imbecile, so you probably already knew that millennials in all sub-demographic categories, black, LGBTQ, Hispanic, and women were majority for Sanders, but chose to play dumb. Par for the course I suppose for Correct the Record zombies.

        • King of America

          Sorry that you think you have a point – you don’t. The bulk of Sanders remain white and male, millennial or not. That’s not the only demographic in the nation, oddly!

    • WomanInAMood

      2 comments, 1 upvote. Sad. To a Trumpian degree.

    • Whooop-whooop-whooop! we have a slimy little man-o-spherian!

      How’s your fedora? Are you an Incel or a MGTOW or a follower of Roosh?

    • jmhm

      And there we have it, the answer to the essential question of progressive politics: where the white women at?

      Except your numbers are a little out of date, sport.

      • John MV

        Millennial black and Hispanic women (and men–like me!) went for Sanders too. Of course anyone not-troglodyte is now for Clinton but that reflects the hostage situation dynamics of our electoral system more than real support.

        • jmhm

          Actually, the numbers show different, but I’m sure the candidate’s surrogates were campaigning on the unimportance of the uninstructed brown vote because they were getting so many of them. You know, from Guam and places like that.

          Obvious troll sock is obvious.

    • Msgr_Moment

      Actually I for one am feeling pretty damn perky about my candidate. You figuring out what drapes to put in the Lincoln Bedroom?

    • Longstreet63

      Chicks dig jerks!

  • Ascended Lawmage

    How on earth did this get published?

    • HayesOose

      “Rebecca is the owner, editrix and publisher of Wonkette.”

      • King of America

        How dare a woman – A WOMAN, mind you! – have an opinion that is contrary to yours. Doesn’t she understand that you “care” about the “environment” (hate science)??!?

        • HayesOose

          You’re confused

          • King of America

            No I’m not.

    • Because it is a popular political blog that loathes faux left wingers like Jill Stein supporters.

    • jmhm

      The author worked as a professional reporter long enough to buy the store?

      • Msgr_Moment

        She slept with the IT guy?

        • jmhm

          Let’s just say she knows the mod.

        • King of America

          If I remember right that happened after she bought the store.

          Also equal odds that his employment contract read “PLEASURE SLAVE” and not “I.T. LACKEY”

        • Longstreet63

          It’s all about ethics in Snark Journalism!

    • Major_Major_Major

      You hit “post as Ascended Lawmage” after you were done typing. That’s how it works. Crazy, isn’t it?

    • doktorzoom

      Gonna go out on a limb and say it has something to do with Rebecca Schoenkopf owning the blog, paying to have it kept online, and clicking “publish” in WordPress.

      That, or George Soros and Hillary gave her a ton of money to do that.

  • HayesOose

    Socializing with, expressing admiration for, seeking advice from Henry Kissinger would make one the cuntiest cunt in the cuntry

    • Have you ever heard the term “Diplomacy” if you have I doubt you know its meaning. Secretaries of State schmooze with previous Secretaries of State because they hold information that doesn’t make it into the public record.

      What did you expect her to do? Waterboard the old prick?

      • HayesOose

        You really need to bone up on the relationship between those two particular secretaries of state, then compose your little lecture, *then* find a junior high class somewhere that can be coerced into listening to it.

        • You really need to bone up on reality.

          Your Republican slanders against Mrs Clinton really are getting tired.

    • Msgr_Moment

      You misspelled “country”.

  • KiteFlyer89

    Terms are one thing but it’s the tribalism that gets me more. There were literal articles based on one stupid anonymous Bernie account saying an admittedly dumb thing on social media (in the cases where there was any evidence at all). But now it’s Jill Stein, so drop a (unt or two.

    Like, okay this is snarky satire great, but try and be consistent in these standards.

    • WomanInAMood

      What?

    • Sorry but there are many “BoBs” (actually Hillary Haters) who have been spreading their vile obsessions on the Internet.

    • jmhm

      You know no-one knows what you’re referring to, right?

    • Msgr_Moment

      I just dropped two units. When do the hallucinations start?

  • Nunya

    You’re not clever. You’re not a hero. You’re a mean-spirited twit.

    • Mean spirited? You have never been out canvassing, this was kind and gentle treatment of a deluded supporter of the Woo-Mistress, Jill Stein.

      • Nunya

        Oh, but I have canvassed. Not once was I ever treated this way while knocking on doors for Bernie and I live in a Red state. When the message being delivered is about hope, truth and honesty there is no need for vitriol.

        You support a poisonous candidate. And it shows.

        • Funny, others have been. Try talking to people about atheism and see what happens there

  • Ed Boumil

    I’m enthusiastically Hillary Clinton = I am enthusiastically for regime change wars that will result in the unnecessary death of 3rd world children. Fuck poor kids!

    Wear your POS philosophy with pride!

    • King of America

      Yes, all those “regime changes” she did, in your Koch-brothers fueled imagination.

      Donald Trump thanks you for your support.

      • HumanSplorch

        yes, the Iraq war was such a dastardly Koch brothers invention. And Honduras ain’t even a real place, as far as I’m concerned. It’s about hard choices, and she’ll be witches at them, WITCHES I’m teling you.

        • Longstreet63

          I hear she’s an Illuminati witch!

          • HumanSplorch

            what a funny rhetorical strategy you have come up with. What if, like, any opponent of Hillary were a conspiracy theorist? Comedy gold! I hear she’s a chemtrail!

          • Longstreet63

            Her main weapon is HAARP, of course. She uses it to communicate with the devil!
            You can find all of this on the Internet.
            Until you have to deal with people who believe things like this and have a candidate for President of the United States for one of the two parties that can win who holds similar notions, you might want to give us a break for opposing that candidate.

          • HumanSplorch

            Sure, I’d do the same. HRC sure doesn’t make it easy, though.

          • Longstreet63

            Try living through 30 years of inflammatory rhetoric aimed at her by the opposing party. She has literally been accused of everything they could think of since 1992. This was and is a specific political strategy to delegitimize her, and it has worked very well. So much smoke, so many people assume there is fire. And the fact that she’s never been found to be guilty of any of these things is “proof” of them, somehow.
            She’s frankly, got no more or less warts than any centrist politician who has served in multiple administrations and various capacities, but each is magnified by propaganda. And the reason why will blow your mind.
            Because HRC is actually an extremely competent liberal politician, and that terrifies the American Right Wing. They have always feared that she would finally gain some power, and as such will break up the con game they’ve been running on us since 1980, which is that government is worse than useless.
            I fully support that, and her.
            If you’re worried, just keep in mind that the goons in the legislative houses will mostly be that same who’ve kept Obama from accomplishing much, and will do the same for her.
            More’s the pity.

        • King of America

          Your “Honduras” claim is – naturally – a 100% bullshit conspiracy theory sourced from the Koch brothers via their employee Peter Schweizer. Thanks for illustrating my point so spectacularly!

    • You mean that Hillary Clinton will betray causes that she has worked her whole life to support?

      I bet you are one of the acid burn-outs who says that Bill and Barrack are no different from the Bushes.

      • Ed Boumil

        Lol you must be really oblivious to foreign policy and her tenure as secretary of state. Why not do some reading?

        Nice attempt at ad hominem though. Acid burnout made me laugh.

        • I commented about Hillary Clinton’s progressive credentials and you switch to har time as Secretary of State where, in your perverted reality, she started wars on a whim.

          By the way, insulting you is not an ad hom. Claiming you are wrong because you are an “acid burn-out” would be an ad hom., but I made no such implication. Equally calling your reality “perverted” is not an ad hom as it is firmly descriptive of the distortions you have to use to justify your nonsense.

          • Ed Boumil

            In my original comment, I implied that she was a war hawk. Obviously this would include her time as secretary of state. There was never a switch. And her record speaks for itself.

            Keep in mind this candidate voted for the Iraq war, then tried to make light of that vote by stating that it was a good business opportunity.
            Ad hominem – (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

            Google is a great resource, FYI. Not only was your other post an ad hominem, as you attacked me, but it was incorrect, as no, I don’t think Bush and Obama are the same. But that doesn’t change the fact that I see Obama as a massive dissapointment for liberals, and see Hillary as cut from the same cloth

          • Ad hominem is an argument directed at the person to detract from a position they have taken. Therefore calling your interlocutor or their source a war hawk in a discussion about policy is an ad hom while naming someone and their philosophy a “POS” (piece of shit) is not an ad hom, (and I did not treat it as such). Reading your own posts is a great resource.

            Keep in mind that this candidate – with many others including Elizabeth Warren – voted for the Iraq war, so what? Hillary and Elizabeth also regretted that vote, but, of course that regret does not enter your consciousness – nor does it seem to disturb your conscience.

            Similarly the work that Mrs Clinton has undertaken throughout her life in support of children both at home and overseas somehow escapes you and leaves your unmoved. As you observed, Google is a great resource but you have to use it without bias.

            Regime change is the primary purpose of many wars but curiously most of the wars that in which President Obama and his cabinet have become embroiled have not been of his making. The Syrian revolt was already underway when he came to the decision to arm the rebels and the same could be observed of the “Arab Spring” revolts. Politics is often about hard choices; for example, should Assad or Gaddafi have been left to complete genocides or should rebels be armed?

            I notice also that in your final argument that you are careful to distance yourself from those who fraudulently claim to be left wing by claiming that Mrs Clinton is cut from a cloth of “disappointment”, doesn’t this rather undermine your previous positions about her?

          • Ed Boumil

            Are you daft? Elizabeth Warren wasn’t in congress for the Iraq war vote. How could she have voted for it?
            Likewise I acknowledge she has helped kids throughout her career, but any of that is offset IMO by declaring war recklessly.

            And lastly, of course conflict is complicated, but that doesn’t meaning that us sticking our noses in it will make it better. Keep in mind more pro-Assad personnel have been been killed in Syria than civilians: https://www.antiwar.com/blog/2014/04/16/most-reported-deaths-in-syria-have-not-been-committed-by-assad-regime/
            But your argument is somewhat moot as she did not support conflict in Syria to oust Assad because he was a “bad guy”, but because it would most likely help Israel:http://newobserveronline.com/clinton-destroy-syria-israel/
            And she showed terrible judgment in Libya backing rebel groups she knew were committing ethnic genocide, which sort of negates your argument. Likewise, her confidants likely fabricated allegations of mass rape against Gaddafi.
            http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2016/01/06/new-hillary-emails-reveal-true-motive-for-libya-intervention/

          • Warren was, however a supporter.

            Evidence regarding “Helping Israel” may well be lacking when Assad and Israel cooperated on the destruction of Lebanon, have never directly been in conflict, are both interested in shutting down Islamic extremism and Israel was heavily implicated in the training of Assad’s special forces.

          • Ed Boumil

            Evidence for “Helping Israel” comes directly from one of her leaked emails:
            “The best way to help Israel deal with Iran’s growing nuclear capability is to help the people of Syria overthrow the regime of Bashar Assad.”
            https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/18328

            Its also well known that Assad and Iran coordinate and are allies, and Israel does not like Iran.

            And in reference to Gaddafi, its quite possible his genocide was fabricated:
            http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/08/31/the-top-ten-myths-in-the-war-against-libya/
            and yet the rebels fighting him, and the ones Clinton backed, were known to be committing atrocious cleansing of people:
            https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/oct/26/libya-war-saving-lives-catastrophic-failure

            So to summarize Hillary backed rebels in Libya that were racist, wanted to purge black Libyans, burnt down villages. all the while NATO dropped tons of bombs on Libya that also resulted in catastrophe, and innocent were killed. And what was the result? the country is locked in ruin, economically its a disaster. We left the country worse off, and because of that, Hillary’s pro-interventionist past scares the piss out of me.

          • Difficulty with your thesis – Assad is a Ba’athist, like Saddam Hussein, and hence in conflict with the Iranian theocrats. From the point of view of State a peaceful resolution of the Iranian Nuclear problem lay in reducing the threat to Iran by weakening or assisting in the overthrow of Assad. This in turn assists with keeping the rogue state of Israel in hand.

            I notice that the provenance within the State Department of the e-mail that you cite is not given, I also note that it is NOT classified, it is “Release in full” therefore it is a briefing paper prepared for the Secretary, not a policy document.

            Regarding the Guardian article, again you falsely frame. Certain elements of the anti-Assad forces attempted to deceive but the majority of crimes against humanity committed in that terrible conflict were those of the Assad regime as evidenced by the fact that captured munitions used in the attempted deception were manufacture by the Ba’athists.

            Libya; funny how the Berbers (a dark skinned North African group) were the ones being subjected to genocide by the forces controlled by Gaddafi. This has continues because, yes, many Libyans are racist but first but foremost among them was Gaddafi. Of course you ignore his other crimes, the purging of families, the destruction of infrastructure and resultant water shortages among disfavoured groups. As to the bombing of innocents NATO did make mistakes because they made the mistake of trusting information submitted by the rebels but they were rather limited by the inability to insert ground forced to control the airstrikes.

            Your support of murderous regimes rather gives the lie to your claims to be on the liberal side of US politics. At the best you are like the Webbs, deceived by your loathing of Western democracy into thinking the vile actions of dictators are excusable. At worst you are conscious propagandists for the Republican Party and Donald Trump.

          • Ed Boumil

            Right off the bat, it is Common Knowledge Assad and Iran are allies!
            There’s an entire wiki page devoted to this issue:
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_involvement_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War

            As for your bit on Libya, you miss my point entirely that neither side was innocent, and quite frankly we shouldn’t have been there since in the end we didn’t help save anybody, we made the country worse. You can try to justify it any way you want but the facts stand that we back genocidal rebels and created a breeding ground for terrorists. Also if you are trying to argue that morally we are obligated to intervene in human rights abuses, then why aren’t we in North Korea, where there are WAY worse abuses occurring? B this is what you are justifying:https://theredphoenix.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/308194_511298648897908_1441917171_n.jpg

            You slander me, say I’m full of loathing, and damn straight I loath the fact that you sit back all cushy here in American while remaining complicit in letting our government fuck the world over. And “propagandist for the republican party”, get real, I am left of the majority of Democrats.

          • Nice photos. Seen the ones of Dresden before and after WWII? As I said you are like the Webbs, an apologist fro a vile and hateful regime

            Citing Wikipedia on complex issues is the last resort of those who are, how shall I put it, unableto do any actual research. Ba’athism and fundamentalist Shi’a are opposed. Ba’athism is pretty near secular.

            Sorry, mate, I’m British.

    • jmhm

      Funny. Stein’s VP candidate said exactly that same thing about Sanders and what he described as Sanders’ racist faux-progressive young white supporters.

      • Ed Boumil

        Lol you want to bring VP’s into this?
        Tim Kaine has been a vocal opponent of abortion and a vocal supporter of the TPP.

        • jmhm

          Well, happily, like Clinton, Kaine’s stuck with the platform of the president he serves. Happily, unlike her case that’s not someone to the right of him who loves both TPP and DWS.

          And unlike the Green ticket, he isn’t depending on the kindness of what they call racist Sanders supporters whose platform they rejected and mass-murdering homophobic KGB apparachiki :)

    • Msgr_Moment

      You appear to have severe anger issues. Is this a cry for help?

      • Ed Boumil

        Lol wow an internet psychologist. I’m impressed that you can diagnose that over a post on a crappy website.

    • Longstreet63

      Satanic cults are after our children!

      • Ed Boumil

        No that would be the US and Israeli military and drones.

        • Longstreet63

          That’s the spirit! Jewish Bankers in Black Helicopters are chasing us!

          • Ed Boumil

            Word of advice, don’t take acid before trying to interact on the internet.
            In Pakistan its estimated between 174 and 207 innocent children have been killed, ordered by neoliberal Obama. How do you justify that? Protip, trying to smear me doesn’t change the reality of the situation:
            https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/category/projects/drones/drones-graphs/

          • Longstreet63

            Are the disputed 33 maybe not children or maybe not innocent?

          • Ed Boumil

            Real funny. Keep making light of our fucked up government.

  • King of America

    Wow, apparently the holier-than-thou faux-progressives discovered this page in the last half a day.

    • Major_Major_Major

      They are rather tsious and unfunny. I started to jump in, and decided they weren’t all that fun to play with. No heads asplodin’ or whatnot.

      • Msgr_Moment

        They give hoofwanking bunglecunts a bad name.

  • Me The People

    The dead threads are jammed with broken heroes on a last chance power drive. It’s their last act of rebellion before they vote Trump, or stay home playing minecraft. It’s a weighty decision. Who knows or cares how it will go.

    • WomanInAMood

      Yeah, why do they keep coming to these?

      • Me The People

        They don’t even try to be persuasive, looks like they are just acting out their impotent rage.

        • WomanInAMood

          As shown by our newest visitor, upthread.

          ETA Honduras is not a real country. I learn so much from our visitors.

          • Longstreet63

            It should all be Belize, baby.

          • HumanSplorch

            I was jokingly referring to the fact that Honduras and Clinton’s interventions there do not exist in the liberal imagination.

          • Longstreet63

            Funny she doesn’t make them give back that chunk of Belize the Hondurans have stolen, though…

  • HumanSplorch

    Congratulations on winning this contest of ‘whose privilege wins?’ The winner is: white liberal feminism! Your prizes are further wars in the Middle East! Go forth in self-righteousness, Hillary family, and don’t forget to place your hand on your heart during the anthem.

    • WomanInAMood

      Beg pardon?

    • Me The People

      Oh what bollocks. If you want senseless wars in the middle east, you vote for a Republican candidate – and a Republican candidate who is also Donald Trump would be immeasurably worse. But you already knew that.

      Any thoughts on what a Supreme Court with Trump appointments would be like, or what that would do to America, you fucking nitwit?

      What would life be like for women, the poor, non-whites? Don’t give a shit do you?

      You are a traitor to every liberal principle, you are worthless. We look down on you from a very great height, you dirty little de-facto Trumpkin.

      And fuck knows what you are trying to say with that ‘hand on heart’ comment.

      • Longstreet63

        They want Trump to win so they can proclaim their purity. They risk nothing, they think, and care nothing for those who do, save only to genuflect towards the sacrifices they hope to make necessary.
        They want to trash the system, just like Trumpers, and equally mistakenly think they could control what comes after.
        They don’t realize what happens to Revolutionaries after the Revolution.

        • HumanSplorch

          Who are the “They” you talk about? How do they threaten your beloved “system”?

          • Longstreet63

            They don’t, but they’d like to.

          • HumanSplorch

            the plot thickens. I’m genuinely intrigued who you might have in mind!

          • Longstreet63

            The Reptilians, obviously! And the Queen of England, who controls all the drug cartels. And Monsanto!

          • HumanSplorch

            That’s tautological. The Queen is obviously a scaly one, and Monsanto is their corporate headquarters.

          • Longstreet63

            Tautology Libel!
            I got a B+ in Tautology.

          • Longstreet63

            If you’d still like an actual answer to this I can provide one. I just came back to it, and noted that you’re not really a troll, and I just snarked at you.

      • HumanSplorch

        Your ‘lesser of two evils’ rhetoric is obviously very convincing, as is your argument about wars. Hillary’s voting record of course shows her principled anti-militaristic stance.

        Also, I don’t give many fucks about the Supreme Court since I am not American. I know your fucked up political discourse dictates that we should all be writing hilarious things about Trump’s hands and praising Hillary’s white womanness – but the rest of the world doesn’t give too many shits about whether they are killed by Republican or Democratic drones.

        And that goes especially for the “women, the poor, non-whites” about whom you chose to sanctimoniously lecture me. They are in Syria, in Honduras and in many other places the US chose to fuck up. They suffered from US foreign policy.

        But sure, yeah, call me a Trump suppoter, since your trivial US bullshit discourse only allows for two options, obvsly.

    • WomanInAMood