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Yep.
MURDERRRRRRR.

The granddaddy of liberal internet news sites, Salon, has taken time off from begging the FBI to put Hillary Clinton in email jail, and urging young folk to skip voting this year if Hillary Clinton is the Democratic nominee, and is instead inviting you to consider, hey? Why not vote for Donald Trump? He may be a fascist, but there is one thing about him you cannot deny, and that is that Donald Trump is not Hillary Clinton. Salon ain’t lyin’! Vote Donald Trump, you guys, for all the many good reasons laid out by Walker Bragman (the non-Haha Goodman half of the He Man Hillary Hater Bois Club) in his masterpiece, A Liberal Case for Donald Trump: The Lesser of Two Evils Is Not at All Clear in 2016. Let’s learn stuff and things!

There are perhaps no three words more jarring to liberals than “President Donald Trump.” The GOP front-runner and presumptive nominee has undoubtedly made enemies with his nativist rhetoric and bellicose persona. That said, now that the race between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton, with the former secretary of state essentially guaranteed the nomination, many liberals and progressives are preparing, once again, to vote for the lesser of two evils. The choice may not be as clear as some Democrats believe — especially if Democrats can take back the Senate and assure themselves of a check on a GOP House.

Once you’ve let that sink in, try this: There is a liberal case to be made for Donald Trump. The prospect of Trump defeating Clinton this November is not necessarily the apocalypse that some would lead you to believe. Here are some of the reasons why.

Blah blah blah boring thing, okay, got it.

1.) He’ll Change the Conversation

Perhaps the best thing I can say about Trump is that he speaks his mind. This sometimes leads to some pretty outlandish things, but not always. As Shane Ryan of Paste magazine, pointed out in a recent article, Trump has spent much of his time lately, railing against free trade and NAFTA, as well as the gross inequality in our system. Trump often talks about raising taxes on “hedge fund guys,” and he has acknowledged that the primary process is skewed in favor of the establishment.

Like Sanders, Trump is neither beholden to special interests, nor coordinating with a Super PAC. This alone sets him apart from the other candidates in the race — especially Hillary Clinton.

Campaign finance reform has become THE ISSUE for half of 2016’s Democratic primary voters, displacing Obamacare, abortion rights, immigration, religious freedom for Muslims, global warming, the environment, welfare, voting rights, keeping cops from killing black kids, and keeping guns out of the hands of lunatics and two-year-olds and lunatic two-year-olds. So vote for the billionaire, because he ain’t got a super PAC!

If he were to be elected, it would force our leaders to have a real conversation about these problems that they simply won’t have if the people elect an establishment candidate like Hillary Clinton. If anything, the narrative that would emerge from a Clinton presidency would be that change isn’t possible. The parties pick the candidates, and regardless of what their policies are, the people fall in line with them eventually. Power never truly changes hands.

Excusing the fact that Trump, himself, is a corporate interest, he would shake the current system to its core — which needs to happen.

That’s one big fact to excuse when you’re railing against corporate interests, but sure, the progressive might not change enough stuff fast enough, so vote for the guy who says he’d do the opposite. It is just #logic, the “math science of words.”

2.) That said, most of his policies are DOA

In all likelihood, Trump will not accomplish anything. He has made serious enemies in both parties and the media, whom he feels have slighted him, and I cannot see him working with those people. Trump holds grudges. He has filed more frivolous lawsuits than anyone in the public eye — or maybe we just hear about them more. Either way, politics do require compromise to one degree or another, and without it, nothing gets done. As such, when Trump finds himself up against institutional and bureaucratic resistance, it is unlikely he will deliver. For example, his wall — paid for by Mexico — is never going to happen. Ban all Muslims from entering the U.S.? Not a chance.

But what if he does work with Congress?

Well, first off, we do not know what his platform will be when he hits the general election. He likely tack to the middle. Second, even if he does work with Congress, he is still not going to get his social policies passed. The Senate with its filibuster and cloture rules is enough of a check on that, even if Democrats do not have a majority. Basically, we will not have immigration reform, but we will not have people rounded up in the streets and deported. Third and most important of all: I do not need to trust Donald Trump in the same way I would have to trust Hillary Clinton were she elected. The reason for this is very simple: Trump represents the GOP brand, and Clinton claims the mantle of progressive. If Trump fails to accomplish anything in office, or if he manages to do whatever damage he can do, he will represent the Republicans. Moreover, rightly or wrongly, he represents America’s crypto-fascist element. The best way to discredit both of these groups is to let them fail on their own. Trump will not succeed as a president.

On the flip side, if Hillary Clinton screws up by compromising too much (which is likely) or doing too little (also likely), progressivism will take a big hit in the public eye, which is something we cannot afford.

Hey, it's me, this idiot!
Hey, it’s me, this idiot!

“I, Walker Bragman, am sure the Dems will pick up the Senate, and even if they don’t, the Republicans will definitely let them filibuster everything and will not say ‘the Dems did the nucular option so we gonna do the nucular option times infinity because don’t know if y’all noticed but we are CRAZY and will repeal Obamacare four times before breakfast but this time President Trump will sign it YEEHAW.’ That is what I, Walker Bragman, am espousing here with a straight face. Also I am once again reiterating that it is better to have a Republican succeed at stuff than a progressive fail, because I wanted to make sure you heard me the first time.”

3.) The 2020 election looms

Now we arrive at the point where I start sounding old Jud Crandall from Stephen King’s “Pet Semetary.” [sic] Progressives and Democrats should be focusing on the election in 2020 because 1) it is a census year — meaning the makeup of the House of Representatives for the following decade will depend on down-ballot voting — and 2) there may be openings on the Supreme Court.

THERE IS ALREADY AN OPENING ON THE SUPREME COURT YOU FATUOUS TWIT. DID YOU FALL ASLEEP IN JANUARY AND FORGET TO SET YOUR ALARM CLOCK FOR ‘WAKE ME UP IF ANTONIN SCALIA IS MURDERED BY BARACK OBAMA IN HIS BED’?

Historically, the party in control of the White House loses seats in the midterm. A Trump presidency would force Democrats to organize and turn out in the off-year. And it might provide a head-start on taking back the chamber in 2020

IDEA: Maybe the Democrats could focus on every election???

4.) I’m Not Afraid of Donald Trump

Some of you might be reading this and thinking to yourselves: “That’s all well and good, but Trump is dangerous.” I understand those feelings. Donald Trump’s messages on social policy have been mixed at best, and fascistic at worst. His approach to climate science is frightening considering the dire situation our planet is in. Trump is also the kind of man who would use the office of the president to aggrandize himself, and punish his detractors — well, attempt to do so, like in his many libel and slander suits. Over the last twenty years the powers of the president have expanded considerably as commander-in-chief, and that’s concerning, too. Additionally, there is the matter of the Supreme Court of United States.

But aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the Trump presidency?

Trump will not transform America’s oligarchy into a fascist dictatorship, nor is he the second coming of Hitler. Our political culture precludes such a shift within any one presidency.

LOL, of course not. That’s Hillary Clinton’s job!

Blah blah blah all the ways Hillary Clinton is the worst and Donald Trump is against NAFTA and doesn’t like China and they would both bomb ISIS and be terrible on foreign policy but for some reason that is a reason to vote for Donald Trump because Walker Bragman MUST PUNISH THE WHORE CLINTON MUST PUNISH HER SO BAD, and also …

Trump’s foreign policy talk has alienated our allies like the United Kingdon [sic], and that isn’t something to take lightly. However, it has also earned praise from Vladimir Putin.

Just gonna leave that right there.

Finally, let’s talk about the Supreme Court.

We have no way of predicting who Trump would appoint, but we can speculate with Hillary Clinton. While she has said that her litmus test for nominees will be commitment to overturning Citizens United v. FEC, there is little reason to trust her given how much she benefits from the current campaign finance system that is a product of that ruling and others. Clinton’s reliance on dark money and coordination with super PACs, along with her lack of serious discussion and failure to prioritize this issue belie her promise to reform.

“She promises to try to overturn Citizens United, but is obviously lying, so vote for the guy who doesn’t promise to try to overturn it. Also, you know what would be great? If Hillary Clinton refused to take corporate money to run against the GOP in the general, because Donald Trump will definitely not take any money and it will totally be a fair fight, for sure. Isn’t everybody comfortable here in our pure little uncompromised haven? Oh, you are not comfortable because you are a five year old who didn’t eat today because they took away school lunch, and Medicare, and the Justice System, and the EPA, because they abolished the IRS when they repealed Obamacare? Sucks to be you. Maybe Paul Ryan will give you lunch in a brown paper bag.”

This is the single most important, and inclusive problem today because it affects our ability to deal with every other issue.

I disagree! But maybe Salon is not in a position to talk about doing things for “dark money,” when they are shitting on everything they stood for to grub some pageviews with morally putrid nonsense like this!

It is also the one area Democrats are not necessarily better than Republicans. President Barack Obama’s recent Supreme Court nominee, Eric Garland, is one of the judges responsible for the disastrous SpeechNow.org v. FEC ruling which gave us Super PACs, and upheld Citizens United.

You sure do know all the stuff. I am sorry I did not believe you before.

UPDATE! Don’t know how we missed it before, but Walker Bragman is blaming Merrick Garland for not overturning the Supreme Court’s Citizen United. Which is NOT A THING AN APPEALS COURT CAN DO. Or as we like to call it, HOW THE FUCK IS THIS UTTER MORON GETTING PAID TO WRITE ANYTHING ABOUT ANY TOPIC THAT IS NOT HIS OWN ASSHOLE. Now back to our regularly scheduled GO FUCK YOURSELF.

Trump has talked about appointing additional Scalias. That’s dangerous — and all the more reason to hope Democrats take back the Senate, but also play hardball as well as Republicans have in the last year.

But if they don’t, then shruggy emoticon, because at least Donald Trump is not that bitch Hillary Clinton.

In the end, it is doubtful that the more negative aspects of Trump’s platform will ever come to pass. In 2016, the lesser-of-two-evils is not so clear.

And the Salon editors crowd around each other, clapping themselves on their backs and raising Walker Bragman in a victory pile, because once again they just got one MILLION pageviews, and all they had to do was spit on their own history and turn into Breitbart.

[Salon]

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  • Nounverb911

    Is it too late to build a wall around Trump Tower?

  • Steven M. Harries

    Andrew O’Heheir is the only reason to read that site. HA! Goodman is the biggest assklown in the US. Paglia? Add your own joke.

    • beingreleased

      Andrew O’Heheir is the worst example of the smug movie critic. “Here are movies you haven’t seen but should,” although I’ve seen them because I’m better than you. He has articles like that every once in a while and it is everything I hate: first, his condescending attitude that he knows best what you should see, and the idea that there is a movie that you should see: very little media is actually required – the rest is stuff you might like and might make you think. He also likes to give good reviews to bad movies because they achieved what they set out to do. Really, I can’t stand him.

      • Steven M. Harries

        Nonsense. He’s reviews pop, cult, and art films.

        Did you ever read his political essays, which appear more often these days than his reviews of the dead art of cinema?

        PS: The opposite of a smug movie critic is a Rex Reed type.

        • beingreleased

          I’ll admit I haven’t read anything by him in years. I usually like reading reviews of movies I’ll never see (which is pretty much all of them), but I always hated his reviews.

      • arundel

        O’Hehir is also unbelievably tetchy. I mentioned a large factual error he had made and he just blew up at me in the comments like a wacko. Failed to dispute that he had made a big factual error though, could not back his shit up.

  • Randy Riddle

    Well, we are talking about a website that regularly gives space to the Peggy Noonan of the academic set, Camille Paglia.

  • anwisok

    I’ll post something (marginally) witty in a few minutes. Right now, I think I need to go puke.

  • Nounverb911

    “We have no way of predicting who Trump would appoint”
    Whoever Roger Ailes tells him to appoint.

  • h4rr4r

    How can he be this stupid yet write mostly complete sentences?

    • GunToting[Redacted]

      I question your “mostly’ qualifier. This is one of the most poorly constructed article I’ve read in, like, ever.

      • h4rr4r

        Is “often complete sentences” better?

  • Nounverb911

    When did The Onion buy Salon?

  • chazmanr

    Salon just ain’t the same without Joan Walsh.

  • FauxAntocles

    Somebody needs to start building little nose guillotines – they’ll make millions!!

    • Tallmutha

      But ooooh, it will make all the faces so mad when they get spited.

  • Mimihaha

    Jeebus Salon. Did Trump buy you?

    • Billy Rubin

      This. Honestly, in the last few weeks, there seems to be a pattern, which I predict wil continue: marginally written, poorly constructed pro-Trump articles showing up in unexpected places. I can come to no other conclusion than that this is paid content.

      Its like that painfully awkward episode of SNL hosted by Donald Trump six months ago, where it was clear neither the writers no actors wanted anything to do with him, but the show went on anyways, with all the warmth of a hostage being forced to read a script on video.

      Read through this jumbled, wooly mess. Does any of it really sound sincere (other than the bog-standard Bernie bro Hillary hate)? I predict more awkwardly placed pro-Trump puff pieces in the future, crafted with North Korean style believability.

  • Nounverb911

    “and turn into Breitbart”
    With votes or without?

  • Alexander Stallwitz
  • drbloor

    Skidmore’s application numbers are about to take a dive. It was on junior bloor’s list, but this twerp’s logic is making my clock run backwards. Some bastion of critical thinking it turned out to be.

  • Creepoman

    I’m past the half century mark and I’ve always tried to stay on the side of making the world a better place for the next generation. But goddamn it, what do you do when the next generation is a smug piece of entitled shit?

    • Nounverb911

      Cut them out of your will?

      • devo-T

        At this rate, I won’t have anything left to bequeath. Next idea?

    • h4rr4r

      I am not quite that old, but seriously some of these kids are real shitheads.

    • Latverian Diplomat

      Easy there. Every generation has had it’s collection of loudmouth shitheads who only claim to represent the rest (but don’t really).

      • Creepoman

        I know – deep breaths – and so far today we’ve had a real hit-parade of horrible.

        • witsended

          Ah, as a cynical old bastard who hates 99% of the people on this planet,I will share a story that ignited a small spark of light in my black heart, after reading it this morning.

          When it comes to tales of bottled messages washing ashore, the rolled-up notes tend to follow a certain formula: a snapshot of history, an untold secret, a heartfelt diary entry from across the sea.

          But a bottle found on a Nova Scotia beach offered a different kind of story when it was found Wednesday with a dead man’s ashes, $25 in cash and an invitation to buy a stiff drink.

          The handwritten message tells the story of Gary Robert Dupuis, a spirited man whose go-to drink was a shot of tequila (“straight up, no groceries”) and who never quite achieved his dream of travelling the world.

          Mystery surrounds the details of Gary’s life. It’s unclear where he’s from or how he died, but the note — which appears to be penned by his daughter — offers some clarity as to how he lived.

          “Gary lived a very fast and reckless life in his younger years but slowed down and dreamed of travelling the world in his golden years,” the note reads.

          Gary never saw that dream achieved, at least in life. The message in a bottle aims to ferry his remains across the globe on the goodwill of strangers, one tequila shot at a time.

          Those who find the bottle are invited to write where they found it and where it was released on the back of the note before releasing it back in the ocean.
          My wish is that he gets his dream of seeing the world and finally finds some peace. We love you dad, have a great trip.”

          http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/man-s-ashes-25-and-a-strange-invitation-found-inside-message-in-a-bottle-in-n-s-1.2879701

          • Creepoman

            Thanks for sharing – I feel better already! And since I’m in Colorado and have zero chance of finding one of Gary’s notes, I’ll just pour one out for him anyway.

      • Billy Rubin

        The shitheads will always be with us. There has never been a time in history where they weren’t there, stinking up the place. They will still be here thousands of years from now. The key is not to put them in charge of anything, if at all possible. The struggle continues.

    • leemoder

      Take away their interwebz.

    • SullivanSt

      I know a number of extremely hard-working 20-somethings keeping their heads up despite the truly shitty economy we made for them. And LGBT, gender and racial equality are unshakably entrenched in their value system. Ignore the clickbait, they’re gonna do alright.

  • Donald Drumpf is not Hillary Clinton. Well, he got one thing right. And Drumpf will never be half the person the Hillary Clinton is.

    • Villago Delenda Est

      Half the person Hillary’s little toe is.

    • Jay Vaughn

      If he was half the man he thought he was he’d be twice the man he is.

      • OddMan

        So if I do the math correctly he is 1/4 of a man?
        I never liked these pop math quizzes.

      • SullivanSt

        I’m now disturbed by thoughts of where James Carville would take this thread.

  • Latverian Diplomat

    You know who else is not the second coming of Hitler?

  • anwisok

    “we do not know what his platform will be when he hits the general election.”

    This is such a sound argument in favor of voting Trump, he’s convinced me! If I can’t Feel the Bern, Imma vote for the D !

    • Lazy Media

      Yes, it is impossible to know what Donald Trump proposes to do if elected. If only there were some sort of electronic store of information where Trump had put details of his plans. If only. Spoiler alert: all of his positions are either Republican boilerplate, ridiculous bullshit, or batshit crazy. Many cross over to multiple categories! But at least they aren’t Hillary’s (yech, ptuey!) positions.

    • FauxAntocles

      Because he doesn’t have a fucking clue himself.

    • AnOuthouse

      ‘D’ stands for ‘dog’ and I like puppies so Trump it is.

  • limberrat

    This idiot would say Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot should be elected because they aren’t bad and their policies won’t go anywhere.

    • Latverian Diplomat

      “No one would ever deport the Kulaks to Siberia! Think what that would do to the food supply.”

      • limberrat

        No one would intentionally starve millions of Ukrainians!

    • Villago Delenda Est

      “Nach Hitler, Uns” – German Communist Party slogan.

      • Captain Kraut

        Hey! It did work in East Germany…eventually.

  • Roman Elazar

    I don’t believe Trump is Hitler or Mussolini. He’s Berlusconi, a clown who will drive your country into a ditch. And also has access to nuclear weapons.

    • malsperanza

      Berlusconi is a hell of a lot more than a clown. He’s a rightwing extremist who has all but destroyed the democratic process in Italy. He has fostered the rise of racist rightwing extremist parties both in Italy and across Europe. He has given cover to the dramatic expansion of the mafia. He is a modern version of Mussolini, but without access to a private army. The fact that he is also clownish should not distract from that.

      • Kronos

        Not to mention Berlusconi’s friendliness with Putin, whom Trump also admires.

      • Christopher Smith

        GREAT handle btw. :) Are you related to Lasciate Ogni?

        • malsperanza

          Only in spirit. ;-)

  • georgiaburning

    Salon is stealing old Monty Python bits

    • Latverian Diplomat

      I only wish they had stolen funnier ones.

    • FlownOver

      Donald Trump/Tarquin Fin-tim-lim-bim-lim-bin-bim-bin-bim bus stop F’tang F’tang Ole Biscuitbarrel ’16!

      • SeeTrain65

        Kevin Phillips-Bong or Bust!

  • Villago Delenda Est

    The Commenting Rules for Radicals are going to be strained today, if the moranity storm does not ease up.

    • anwisok

      Dok needs to make sure to have his disemvowelling tools handy.

  • People who say that Trump wouldn’t be so bad or I can’t vote for Hilary because purity are often the comfortable liberals who won’t lose their healthcare when he repeals the ACA, won’t lose their right to privacy or marry when SCOTUS reviews those cases with a new conservative jurist, and don’t rely on a union to help them live a middle class life.

    • Villago Delenda Est

      AKA the fucktards.

    • malsperanza

      A lot of the younger ones would be at risk, but they think they are being brave and risking all on behalf of big ideas.

      And they have bought the line that their future was sold out by Establishment Democrats. It is Rovian tactics still, and still successful.

      • Serai 1

        That’s how they win. Turn the people against each other so they won’t notice who’s really screwing them.

    • Kronos

      They’re also the people who naively believe that Trump would be less hawkish than previous Republican presidents, even though his record says otherwise:

      https://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/trump-claims-he-didnt-support-libya-intervention-but-he-did

      The irony is that Trump’s 2016 campaign rhetoric (bomb the shit out of ISIS; torture is great; kill the families of terrorists; ground troops in Syria) has been much more belligerent than George W. Bush’s 2000 campaign rhetoric (“no nation-building,” humble foreign policy), and yet look how Bush turned out.

    • JaaaaaCeeeee

      Don’t forget those vacuous hipsters who can’t afford Obamacare co-pays, prescriptions, get jobs, afford rent or a home, or afford college for themselves or their kids.

      • And I’m sure they will be much, much better off living under the Trump Administration with a Republican Congress and conservative SCOTUS.

    • Serai 1

      And white. Don’t forget white.

  • Latverian Diplomat

    “We got tired of people making fun of us, so we decided to be completely ridiculous all on our own.”

    — Salon Editorial Control Board

    • FlownOver

      Finally you’ve succeeded at something.

  • Relativicus

    He missed the part about how the Trumpidency will only be for four years, but otherwise, I really think he nailed it with the whole “there’s no way all the shitty things he’s proposing will come to pass; half, maybe, but certainly not all.” But really, “What’s the worst that could happen” is what makes the whole thing art. And progressives love art and want to have its babies so they can abort their art babies and the aborted babies looked at me and that’s why it was the best summer campaign vacation ever.

    • Usedtobeyellerdawg

      “What’s the worst that can happen?” is what I thought after W was elected. That was a stunning failure of imagination on my part.

      • YourNameHere

        I knew what was coming. It was really strange trying to warn people. I felt like changing my name to Cassandra.

    • nothingisamiss

      I just fell in love with you and your comments.

  • Lazy Media

    Y’know, I think it’s a sign of progress that the Messicans and Blax are going to save American white people from themselves this year. Not that white people will thank them for it, or acknowledge it in any way at all.

    • Latverian Diplomat

      It’s embarrassing to be a white male these days. If it weren’t for all the privilege, I’d give it up.

      • FauxAntocles

        No shit – just glad I’m not a millennial as well.

        • NoGoodnik

          Jeez am I ever glad I am well past the age. Back in the day, all I had to do is grow my hair out and wear scruffy clothes, but now you’ve got to mutilate your body, be cynical, sarcastic, and ironic, and think stupid shit like this. How I pity the kids these days.

      • Tallmutha

        Romney got 60% of the white vote. Not even the white male vote, the white vote. We can’t become a minority soon enough.

        • Usedtobeyellerdawg

          I can’t be a minority! I’m allergic to lead bullets. They make me break out in big red splotches all over my body. (Stolen from Tumbleweeds, if anyone remembers that comic strip.)

          • leemoder

            I do, I do!

          • bupkus23

            Yeah!
            Ah,never mind

      • YourNameHere

        Doom will save us! Er, you. I’m not a male.

    • Villago Delenda Est

      There is precedent for this.

      FDR saved the 1% from the gallows in the 30s, and they’ve hated him for it ever since.

      • leemoder

        “Line ’em up against the wall and Pop! goes the weasel.”

        • Villago Delenda Est

          Groucho!

        • Blank Ron

          Firefly/Teasdale ’16!

    • MissNomer

      Messicans, Blahs, and Ladieeeez.

  • Spotts1701

    Sure, let’s vote for the guy who has stirred up all the whackadoos, racists, nationalists, homophobes and mouth-breathers. I mean, it’s not like they’re expecting him to carry through on his promises and will sit there quietly while he tacks to whatever passes for the “middle” these days.

  • Lizzietish81

    THANK YOU! Salon has been pissing me off. So much that when I see a not anti Hillary article on my feed I comment on it.

    • NoGoodnik

      You know what the worst thing is? You can’t cancel your subscription in a fit of righteous pique and sardonic letter. Someone should make an app for this.

  • beingreleased

    Good to know the old Naderite “Gore is just as bad as Bush” writers still have jobs.

  • Relativicus

    Ultimately, though, it’s not Walker Bragman who’s the issue, here. It’s the Salon readers who will not only find the argument persuasive, but who will fill my Facebook timeline with variations on the theme for the next 8 months that are the real problem.

    My friends suck.

    • Lazy Media

      We have the same friends! Actually, most of my friends are in the tank for Hillary, because we are Olds, but a few of my younger or alt-lifestyle artsy friends are pouting SO HARD about Bernie that they’re taking it out on Hitlery J. Corporaton. One of them conflates what happened to Bernie to how the Rs screwed his PREVIOUS savior, Ron Paul. Ugh, rock and rollers are so fucking dumb sometimes.

  • Well, we have found a soulmate for Meghan McCain. That is something, isn’t it?

  • SayItWithWookies

    Why should you vote for Trump? Because most of what he’s saying is lies, and the other half won’t ever pass, unless it does, in which case it’ll be a huge failure and amount to a repudiation of fascism.

    Hey, you know what else amounts to a repudiation of fascism? Not electing the fascist in the first place. I lived through the Dubya presidency — I have no desire to prove again that an idiot with stupid, know-nothing policies can do dangerous and harmful things. Jesus fucking Christ.

    • Lizzietish81

      This! Some of us are old enough or have cognition enough to remember what happened the LAST time the Democrats lost because of purity test bullshit.

      • coozledad

        You know what’s funny this time? The Naderites can’t vomit up “Gore lost because he ran a shitty campaign” because the guy who ran Gore’s campaign is running the young fresh Nader campaign.

        Do these people even know that Lenin was an agent provocateur mailed back to Russia by the Germans?

        Listens to Susan Sarandon make noises with her face…

        No. No they don’t.

        • malsperanza

          I have yet to hear Naderites make a convincing case that “Gore lost because he ran a shitty campaign” lets any of them off the hook for Nader having run, turning a narrow victory into a defeat.

          Bernie fans: looking at you.

          • Adam Infanticide

            Yeah, it’s all Nader’s fault that Gore was unable to take the oval office from a complete imbecile and a smirking James Bond villain barely able to conceal his perpetual hard on for war.

            Eventually, the Democratic party will have to come up with a more compelling argument than “yeah, we’re terrible and we don’t give a fuck about you little people, but whataya gonna do? Vote for the Republicans?”

          • malsperanza

            Or, you could grow up and vote against the bad guys and quit acting as if that was somehow not acceptable. Because yeah, it was Nader’s fault that we got Bush and his two wars and his economic crash. Just once I’d like to see Nader’s supporters own up to their decision and its consequences. But nope: having behaved childishly, and voted viciously, they have spent the last 16 years trying lamely to find someone else to blame.

            At least stand for what you claim to stand for. If you voted for Nader, it’s because you wanted Gore to lose, and were happy Bush won. Own it.

          • Serai 1

            Yes, but you’re not fucking helping by tossing the country over to those same Republicans.

          • Serai 1

            Sure, if you IGNORE THE FACT THAT THE PRESIDENCY WAS HANDED TO BUSH BY A FLORIDA COURT.

            You can fuck off with that wingnut bullshit about how the Democrats “lost” the election, bucko.

          • Adam Infanticide

            calm down, buddy. Everyone knows Bush was illegitimately installed in the white house by our benevolent overlords. Still, Gore managed to fuck things up pretty good all by himself. embarrassing. I mean, Lieberman? come on!

          • Serai 1

            Nope. You can fuck right the fuck off with the “calm down”. Go tell your kids to calm down.

          • Serai 1

            Some men just want to watch the whole world burn.

      • chimichanga

        Fuck Salon. I have no idea why I still click there. It’s harshes my buzz.

        • Little Lulu

          It used to be so good too, back when one paid for a subscription. I still like Digby, who posts there, but I choose to read her stuff on her own blog. I avoid the horrible Salon completely now.

          • Serai 1

            It was still pretty good up until a few years ago. But the rot really set in when the whole Sanders thing started. It’s a swamp now. Sad, because there are some good commenters on those threads.

      • bobbert

        Some of us are old enough to remember the time before that.

      • Serai 1

        Some of us remember getting saddled with fucking REAGAN because of the goddamn too-precious-to-live Anderson voters. “We’re making a statement!” YES YOU FUCKING IDIOTS. And the statement is, “We don’t give a shit about the country.” The same statement the ball-clutching Bros are making today.

    • Lazy Media

      Nader 2016!

    • Villago Delenda Est

      I mean, it only cost 3,000+ American lives, hundreds of thousands of Iraqi lives, and there are tens of thousands of wounded warriors in this country trying to get something resembling a life back after THAT little experiment.

      Oh, and thanks for all the Daesh!

      • SayItWithWookies

        And that’s just Iraq — let’s not forget the huge tax cuts for the rich that he passed immediately upon getting into office; ignoring the warnings about 9/11; gutting what little remained of banking regulations that led to the 2008 crash; letting oil and gas and coal companies do whatever the hell they wanted to the environment; alienating almost all of Europe (remember Rummy’s “old Europe” slam?) and generally making America look like a bull in a china shop.

        • Spotts1701

          But hey, he says he’ll let Caitlyn Jenner do her business in whatever bathroom she wants so he must be somewhat liberal.
          It would be laughable if the stakes weren’t so damn high.

          • BearGHAZI

            It would all be laughable if -I- were not so damn high.

            Oh wait, it’s laughable

          • SullivanSt

            It would all be laughable if I were so damn high.

        • Lazy Media

          AND scaring Iran into pursuing a nuclear weapons program.

          • SayItWithWookies

            Oh, and North Korea too — how could I forget?

        • jmhm

          and Katrina.

          • SayItWithWookies

            He had so many failures of galactic proportions I can’t believe I forgot Katrina amongst them. Not since 1812 has an American president lost an entire city. Dubya would’ve earned his place on the Mount Rushmore of Shame just for that — I still replay in my head the anguish of the days following Katrina’s landfall — and the insouciance of the Dubya administration and their annoyance at being so inconvenienced by this completely avoidable disaster that they had to put a happy face on and — oh, maybe — clean up.

          • zmayhem

            Katrina is a huge, huge sticking point for me — it was so fucking horrifying, so much of it was preventable and so much of the unpreventable part could have been so easily mitigated, so much suffering relieved; whatever (entirely legitimate) issues people may have with any of Hillary’s positions, does anyone believe she’d appoint a Michael Brown to FEMA? No goddamn way. She might appoint a crony or someone who’d done her a favor, but it’d be a crony or favor-giver who had a reasonable level of baseline competency and experience. She’s detail-oriented and wonky, and I have no doubt she’d appoint someone similar in a position like that.

            Trump? Who knows; it’s anyone’s guess. And as climate change leads to worse and worse climate extremes and catastrophic events, the chances of another Katrina in the next couple of presidential administrations just go up and up. And the people who will bear the brunt of those catastrophes? The people with the least resources to begin with. I will be, literally, damned (as in, I believe that if anything merits condemnation to hell, this does) if I put the safety and the lives of hundreds of thousands of already-scrabbling complete strangers at risk for the sake of my own morally pure vote.

            And not one, not one of the True Progressives burbling about being unwilling to settle for the lesser of two evils has ever answered that. They’re my age or older; they lived through it, they saw the families shot at as they tried to cross a bridge to safety, they heard about the nurses euthanizing the patients too fragile to evacuate, they read all the reports of the Thunderdome at the NOLA stadium. They know this isn’t a what-if but a thing that actually happened, to an entire city full of their fellow citizens. No response.

          • babyming

            I would put Valerie Plame along with Katrina. Another Dubya epic fail. Think about that – the Bush Administration outed a CIA undercover agent, who was spying on Iran’s nukes. Now compare that to today’s Fox News “Benghazi!” and “emails!” talking points.

        • bobbert

          As I recall, he wasn’t able to pass the tax cuts until AFTER 9/11, when errbody rallied ’round him.

          • SayItWithWookies

            Believe it or not, it was before 9/11 — a further round was passed in 2003, when there was a lot of wondering if maybe they should be repealed, considering the increased war funding, etc. Instead, the phase-ins of the 2001 act were accelerated.

      • malsperanza

        Don’t forget the worldwide economic crash.

      • alpacapunchbowl

        So long and thanks for the Daesh?

      • Billy Rubin

        Oh, and letting genocide unfold in Darfur, and doing literally nothing about it.

    • In my heart, I’ve upvoted you a thousand-gazillion times.

  • AntiDerpomeme

    I just about puked when I saw this “thinkpiece article” thingie earlier. Fortunately, nobody takes Salon seriously anymore.

  • Msmlg1979

    How his hair didn’t burst into flame when he wrote that hot mess is truly a mystery.

    • Either that, or he just wasn’t thinking at all?

      • Msmlg1979

        How do I go about getting paid for that?

        • Captain Kraut

          Where’s the “$98/hour for working on the internet”-lady when we need her?

          • SeeTrain65

            Languishing in her parents’ basement, if there’s any justice.

  • leemoder

    How the hell can the emoprogs argue their “purity” when they consider pulling this kind of shit?

    • Blank Ron

      They’re learning about redefining words from the Rs.

  • HanBarbara

    This kind of crap is why people argue that Liberals have no common sense. Yep, vote for the guy who is opposed to everything we stand for. We’re going to gamble that he’s really not that bad and won’t do all the things he promised he would do.Why? Because the candidate for our own party isn’t sufficiently pure, and might have to compromise.
    Sorry you Millenial Twit, but if Drumpf gets elected in 2016, there might not be a 2020 election.

    • Nounverb911

      Trumptopia 2017

    • artem1s

      It’s people like him that have convinced me that Libertarians are more dangerous than the GOP.

      • YourNameHere

        Nah, they’re not real Libertarians. The GOP just peed all over us and we can’t get it off.

        Actual Libertarians are socially liberal and would never be supporting any of these creeps. I know, because I am one and I’m on your side.

        • Villago Delenda Est

          You’re going to have to give up your propertarian bullshit if you want to be taken seriously. Oh, and admit that government is necessary, because humans are not angels, to paraphrase Madison.

        • artem1s

          all the self styled Libertarians I know would love Salon’s argument. They are only progressive when it comes to their single issue (usually some Green or anti-vaxxer shit) and claim if we just change this one magical thing the world will be right. Progressives, actual progressives, understand process and consequences. I’m tired of people who are obviously cultists, claiming to be liberal or progressive.

        • Billy Rubin

          When people call themselves Libertarians, I take them at their word. Real world Libertarians are all over the map. There are plenty who think abortion should be completely legal and unrestricted up to the point the cervix is dilating, but you can just as easily find Libertarians who think it’s murder and must be banned in every circumstance. Most really hate unions, Most seem to think that there should be no environmental regulation (and that climate chance is some sort of communist conspiracy), but some recognize its a problem, but don’t have a plan to do anything about it.
          The thing that seems to tie them together is a simplistic faith that the Free Marlet will fix everything, and that government can’t do mush of anything right. Oh, and a real bitter hatred for wellfare. It’s the GOP for potheads, mostly.

    • Spotts1701

      And the whole plan hinges on retaking the Senate, which is doable but given that most of the people making this argument also reject the candidates running for those offices as “corporatist shills” and “Blue Dog Dems” I don’t quite see how they expect that to work.
      “Don’t hold your nose for Hillary, but do so for the Senate?” Kinda mixed message there, chief.

      • Whale Chowder

        On top of which, these Berners aren’t going to go vote for Trump, they’re just going to sit it out (again!) and let the motivated rightwingers win. I’m ready to deliver a very strong nut-voting.

    • AnOuthouse

      You need to things to get really bad, then everyone will vote for you.

  • Lizzietish81

    This purity crap on the right is how we ended up with Trump.

    • If we could all be perfect, the good would be revealed as callous and useless.

      #goodaintgood #shittyisastagebutgoodhurtsmyfeelinz

    • malsperanza

      I keep trolling the Bill Moyers and Robert Reich FB pages (cesspits of BernieorBust) to point out that the Sanders candidacy is very parallel to the Turnip candidacy, only, youknow, a whole lot less popular.

      It would be fun if I weren’t so sad at what has happened to Moyers and Reich.

      • JaaaaaCeeeee

        Corey Booker called Bernie Sanders and those who vote for him the tea party of the left.

        • malsperanza

          Well, we all know that Cory Booker is just another Washington insider who takes money from people we don’t like and votes with the establishment and is from one of those states with more than three people in it. Plus, black people always [insert verb] against their own interests.

      • bobbert

        I’ve been a little disappointed in Reich recently.

      • Serai 1

        I’m very sad to hear that Moyers has fallen prey to this nonsense.

    • Serai 1

      That and Citizens United. I just LOVE how the wingnuts constantly shoot themselves in the foot due to their inability to see more than two weeks ahead.

  • Scooby

    If 2 terms of W wasn’t enough to bury conservatism I don’t think one term of Trump is gonna do it.

    • artem1s

      might be enough to bury the human race though, so there is that.

      • Scooby

        China is thinking about also ‘giving away’ nuclear missiles if Trump gives them to Japan. So, you may be right.

        • Aquaria

          Trump is so stupid that he doesn’t realize Japan doesn’t need his stupid support for nuclear arms. Japan has been two weeks away from nuclear armament for at least 2 decades now, if not longer. They have all of the necessary materials and infrastructure for it, and they know it. That’s why they’ve never given up on manufacturing. They know they might need that shit someday.

          • From the Depth of My

            It’s always scary to read just how ignorant our “collegiate” candidates are these days.

            Japan renounced war, the possession of war potential, the right of belligerency, and the possession of nuclear weaponry, it has held the view that it should possess only the minimum defense necessary to face external threats. The Japanese government values its close relations with the United States, and it remains dependent on the United States nuclear umbrella.

            That’s why all of Japan’s forces are called SELF DEFENSE FORCES, JASDF for example (Japanese Air Self Defense).

            In fact this issue came up many times while I was stationed in Japan…nukes, whether on our ships, planes, or just passing through are a touchy subject to the Japanese for obvious reasons.

            You really need to delve into the stacks at your university, they hold a lot more intelligent information than what you’ll find on the internet.

  • GunToting[Redacted]

    Batshit insane rhetoric aside, has this guy EVER studied English?

    “That said, now that the race between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton, with the former secretary of state essentially guaranteed the nomination, many liberals and progressives are preparing, once again, to vote for the lesser of two evils.”

    The race WHAT? Finish your fucking clauses, dipshit.

    • Angela Ruzzo

      You are correct. Salon needs to proof-read (doesn’t everyone?). “Now that the race. . .” and then what? What about the race? There is no predicate in this phrase. Oh, I forgot, they don’t teach grammar anymore.

      • Spotts1701

        So this is what happens when Ralph Wiggum grows up.

      • gedjcj

        Grammar is just a tool of the Establishment.

    • HobbesEvilTwin

      Thank you. I thought I was losing my mind when I tried to read that sentence.

      • GunToting[Redacted]

        And that’s just one of about 78 grammatical errors. I think WalMart had a sale on commas and this guy stocked up.

    • Aquaria

      Welcome to my (collegiate) life.

  • edith prickly

    “Vote for Trump because he’s not Hillary.” There’s a winning strategy. When is Fox News going to hire this genius?

    • He may be receiving under the table payments even as we speak.

      • Captain Kraut

        He may be receiving under the table paymentsblowjobs even as we speak.

        FIFY.

  • eddi

    The Salon crew are Democrats, right? Do they also advise shooting yourself in the crotch to cure jock itch?

    • Villago Delenda Est

      Well, you have to admit that when done properly, you won’t be scratching down there again.

    • artem1s

      well, no they are not Democrats. just run of the mill glibertarians who love to lecture everyone on how they are not ruining the country quickly or badly enough

  • Indiepalin

    These articles in Slate are written by the same people who voted for Ralph Nader in the 2000 election / goatfuck.

    • edith prickly

      And apparently they didn’t notice how that turned out.

  • SuspectedDemocrat

    In terms of education, a Trump Presidency will change the conversation from “Which city has the best schools?” to “Which city is the least radioactive?”

    This is sure to help Dems in 2020.

  • nightmoth

    Oh, FFS! This neo-progressive says Trump is a fascist, petty, corporate shill who can’t accomplish anything, but he’s still the lesser of two evils compared to Hillary? Throw that dog a medicated bone to stop his barking!

  • Antimassacree

    Team Salon appears to have left the noose on a little too long during their recent autoerotic asphyxiation sessions.

    • Nounverb911

      Did they practice on Scalia?

      • Antimassacree

        Turns out he should not have used as his safe-word the synonym for potency, titer.

  • Joshua Norton

    Which stage of grief is this?

    • SayItWithWookies

      Suicide.

    • Nounverb911

      Panic?

    • Spotts1701

      The stage where you drink rotgut whiskey by the gallon?

      • Nounverb911

        So the Peggy Noonan stage?

        • Villago Delenda Est

          Oh, please. Only gin for our Peggy.

          “Manuel, another gin fizz!”

    • HanBarbara

      A combination of denial, naïveté, and nihilistic rage, with some Emo Kylo Ren tantrums thrown in for good measure.

      • SuspectedDemocrat

        Nihilists! Say what you will about National Trumpism, at least it’s an ethos!

    • SuspectedDemocrat

      Stockholm? I’m assuming there’s at least one armed psychopath in their editorial room.

    • artem1s

      It’s spectacularly insane negotiation, so maybe we can finally move on soon? Anger is next right? So the next argument is to steal the nucular codes and preemptively bomb the shit out of whoever Hitlery will start a war with, because, reasons? And Drumpf’s nucular winter will forestall global warming, also,too.

  • Bill Slider

    I could vote for Donald J. Trump over Hillary R. Clinton come November. However, that can happen only if I become a resident of some country in South America prior to November. I have never been the least bit curious about experiencing nuclear winter.

    • Nounverb911

      Is Antarctica in South America?

    • artem1s

      ya better hold out for Newt’s Moon base, cause South American ain’t far enough away.

    • SuspectedDemocrat

      If there was a way to short-sell life on this planet, I could make enough money to join you.

  • Lazy Media

    Hat tip to leemoder for reminding us that we’ve already HEARD Drumpf’s plans: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSsUoxlSADk

    • leemoder

      Too Kind.
      Also, here’s a bit of ephemera that’ll lighten your load: They’re considering removing Drumpf’s star from the Hollywood Walk of Fame because people are openly pissing on it.

      • Villago Delenda Est

        What they should do is form a velvet rope line, and charge people say a buck to piss on it.

    • Pickwicknext

      I would vote for Rufus T Firefly over Trump in an instant

  • AntiDerpomeme

    My favorite part of the whole justification for hating Hillary is that she’s either going to compromise too much or not do enough (and where the proof that these things will happen is a mystery). Whereas Trump won’t get anything done at all. So, you should definitely vote for Trump because doing nothing is better than trying? That seems, um, insane.

    • Spotts1701

      “The perfect is the enemy of the good” is the mantra – if we can’t get 100% success every time let’s not even go for it at all.
      And remember, these are some of the same folks who believe that Bernie getting elected would make House Republicans magically see the light and turn into single-payer supporting uber-progressives. Insanity is an understatement.

      • Villago Delenda Est

        It’s November 2000 in Florida all over again.

        • hollydturner

          “”shudder””

    • hollydturner

      If you need further justification – She has a vagina and that will confuse her so much – to compromise or not to compromise – It’s just to much for a vagina to comprehend.

      • joebags

        Yeah, that’s the only possible reason to dislike Clinton as a candidate. (And notice I said candidate–she maybe the greatest person on Earth on a personal level. I don’t know nor care.)

        • hollydturner

          Glad you cleared that up.

          • joebags

            Just like to make sure things are all clear. I know how you binary types can be.

      • AntiDerpomeme

        It does seem rather telling that the folks making these sorts of arguments are (almost?) always men.

      • bobbert

        I am a 68 yo OWSM. I never expected to see a woman or a non-all-white person as POTUS during my lifetime, but way back in the day I certainly assumed the woman would come first.

        I severely underestimated the strength of the “A WOMAN? As PRESIDENT?” strain of thought in the US electorate.

  • Sardonicuss

    The thing that makes the steam come out of my ears every time Salon pukes out one of these horrible putrid morsels of click bait is:
    While liberal blogs like this struggle to stay alive, Air America rots away in it’s grave, MSNBC morphs slowly into Fox Lite…
    Somebody gave this guy actual U. S. currency to write this! The marketplace of ideas now only rewards the worst ideas out there.

    • AntiDerpomeme

      MoJo published something a few days ago about the sad state of journalism these days. It was mostly a plea to send them more $$ (which I do), but also a reminder that the crap that passes for content is mostly clickbaity shit because that’s what pays. It’s depressing.

  • ClarkJoe

    I swear Salon could do more to suppress the vote among liberals and young people than Republicans could ever dream of doing themselves.

    http://www.angryblackladychronicles.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/ratfuck.jpg

    • Where did you find that picture of Cruz and Fiorina?

      • nightmoth

        Which one has the strap-on?

      • drbloor

        I had no idea they made strap-ons for rats.

  • TheBidenator

    Okay, who’s got the burlap sack? Yes let’s voluntarily make ourselves the minority party and allow an insane, orange fascist to have power because our perfect septuagenarian socialist didn’t get the nod. Go fuck yourselves, Salon…I can’t believe I used to comment over there.

  • hollydturner

    He’s throwing a tantrum because Bernz isn’t going to get the nomination and he’s a Class A asshole misogynist who would cut his dick off rather than fuck a woman who was threatening to his fragile ego.

    • Msmlg1979

      This. So Goddamn much of this, from so many, is “Anyone But A Woman”. I can smell the reek of it through the bullshit they wrap it in.

      • hollydturner

        There are more than I care to think about. And at this point they aren’t worth the effort. When Hillz comes in with a win then we can sit back and watch the fireworks and enjoy the show.

        • Msmlg1979

          You mean, you aren’t going to flip out and feel totally threatened, because you’re terrified women in leadership is going to lead to you being treated as badly as you’ve treated others since forever?

          • eddi

            They sound like they would be happier as Rebs anyway.

          • hollydturner

            Funny you should say that…I just answered an (alleged) troll that took exception with my “If you need further justification” post and proceeded to rile against/about Hillz. It’s exhausting.

  • NoGoodnik

    Oh fuck, the fucking hipsters with their ironic beards and even more ironic man-buns are going to read this and go ape shit. This is the next best thing to feeling the Bern and added bonus: you don’t have to know anything, think, or even do anything more than pontificate over your ironic beer. I am now going to clean my testicles with sandpaper.

    • hollydturner

      Ironic Beards – Perfect.

    • Bill

      sounds like your friends are smarter than you. follow their lead. There is not a better choice………

      • NoGoodnik

        You’re right! Given the choice between cleaning my testicles with sandpaper and this shyte, I’ll take the sandpaper every time.

  • Hutch

    I have two friends, who are solid Democrats, who recently shared with me that they are considering voting for Trump. Maybe they are getting their ideas from twaddle like this Salon article. I am desperately trying to steer them back to reality. Wish me luck!

    • zanzibar_buckbuck_mcfate

      Please beg them for like, the sake of my children. Seriously.

    • AntiDerpomeme

      SCOTUS should be all the argument you need.

      • Hutch

        I am hammering away with that argument. Hammering!

    • nightmoth

      aaiiieee! head-bang, head-bang, head-bang

      • Hutch

        My first reaction for sure!

    • hollydturner

      Let em go…even with a defection of the few not so bright – Hillz still has it wrapped up.

    • h4rr4r

      You need a ClueByFour. You can find them in any hardware store.

      • Hutch

        I think I have a couple in the shed already. I’ll invite them over!

    • joebags

      Where do you live? Where do they live? It probably doesn’t actually matter who they vote for.

      • Hutch

        One is in PA and another in Maryland. My vote really doesn’t count because I’m in rural-ish Georgia, but I like to vote straight democratic ticket just to piss ’em off.

    • Reddishrabbit

      Are there still those groups for de-brainwashing?

  • Jay Vaughn

    If you’re a sexist, shitmunchin’, piece of shit, daddy suckin’, dude that makes Ted look good, motherfucker, like this sad-ass fuck wad and HaHa you aren’t a progresive. You barely fucking qualify as human you miserable bags of puss and dick cheese.

    • nightmoth

      Jay, we love you: you don’t have to mince words here.

      • h4rr4r

        Yeah, he needs to tell us what he really thinks!

  • ClarkJoe

    “However, it has also earned praise from Vladimir Putin.”

    This is what happens when progressives start getting all of their news from Russia Today. Thanks, Greenwald!

    • alpacapunchbowl

      Yeah, I’m confused by that also too. Is he saying this is a… *good* thing??

      • ClarkJoe

        Hey, Putin’s Russia is the first to stand against human rights violations carried out by the powerful rather than the powerless. They refuse to compromise their principles in the face of intimidation. Also, Russia is in no way involved in massive surveillance operations because their intelligence efforts are strictly regulated by law…

        Snowden effect, and all that, or what Orwell referred to as negative nationalism.

        • alpacapunchbowl

          Well hell, that’s me convinced!

  • fawkedifiknow

    The Salon writer concedes that his lame brained hypothesis is counter-intuitive, without a shred of insight as to why. It’s shot through with stupid nincompoopery.

    • drbloor

      Grandma had no use for fancy-schmancy words like “counter-intuitive,” preferring the simpler “squirrel-brained.”

      • Villago Delenda Est

        One of my late father’s favorite sayings was “as nutty as a tree full of young squirrels”.

        That’s Salon for you.

  • Joe Beese

    Salon brought Glenn Greenwald into the big time. And it continues to tell us what Noam Chomsky is thinking to no commercial advantage at all. So I will always feel protective of Salon.

    But even being as close to #NeverHillary as you can get without actually being #NeverHillary, that was one stupid-ass article.

    • leemoder

      Shorter Chomsky on Everything: “You’re doing it wrong!”

      • Joe Beese

        Well?

  • btwbfdimho

    The only merit I’d recognize to Trump is his ability to expose all kinds of BS that around “serious conversations” are hard to perceive. He lowers all bars and flow levels…His vote numbers are the best (growing) indicator of the worst of this country.

    • Sardonicuss

      It’s the magic 24%.
      Same people who: Think the moon landings were fake, voted for Shrub..twice, believe the earth is 6000 years old, birthers, truther’s, chem trail filmers, KKKer’s, Birchers, …
      Trump is their new god….and stupidity is their new religion.

      • Villago Delenda Est

        Stupidity has always been their religion. But they’ve found a new avatar of it.

  • Antimassacree

    Trump doesn’t scare Bragman because he knows Trump will make life miserable for a whole lot of other people before he bothers the quislings.

  • AnOuthouse

    “Drumpf often talks about raising taxes on “hedge fund guys,” ”
    Actually, no he doesn’t. He mentioned it once. He also mentioned he thinks the minimum wage is too high. I’m really getting sick of the purer than thou ‘progressives’.

    • DoILookAmused2u ?

      These are the folks who strategically sat out 2010 because Lieberman nixed the Public Option to garner his support to end floor debate in the Senate, and who complained the Stimulus was too small (it was, but… everything else filibustered also too), and who think Dodd-Frank didn’t go far enough (again, filibustered) because no CEO of an investment bank had his head at the top of a pole.

      And as a result, we got gerrymanered districts while Koch/AFP/Tea Party saw to it there are 31 Republican Governors, they took over 23 legislatures entirely, and then they all started suing to block everything through the courts, and they made abortion and reproductive health care inaccessible to millions of women, and now they are passing stupid bathroom bills over butthurt about gays.

      And they put Science deniers in charge of the Science committee, and they put Grassley–who thinks its his job to make sure no Democrat appoints a judge–in charge of the judicial committee, and they held 8 hearings on Benghazi, and they are using their positions to rut through the former-Secretary’s emails and….

  • Ryan Denniston

    Why can’t we just win in 16, AAAAAAND 20?

    • Antimassacree

      We will.

      • hollydturner

        No doubt.

    • beingreleased

      Yeah, but if Hillary wins ’16 and ’20, have we really won?

      (spoiler alert: yes)

  • Callyson

    The choice may not be as clear as some Democrats believe — especially if Democrats can take back the Senate and assure themselves of a check on a GOP House.

    (cough) Ever hear of “executive order,” asshole? (cough)

    • artem1s

      also, too, the VP is in charge of the Senate, the 51st vote. It helps if s/he is on your side.

    • And which Democratic candidate has been helping fund those campaigns to take back the Senate?

  • NoGoodnik

    Does the “liberal” wing of the party realize how wholeheartedly they have bought into the hate Hillary BS of the Republicans. They’ve been working on this since 2000 when Bill left office. It just goes to show how a lie can be accepted as reality if it is repeated often enough.

    United Fucking States of Fucking Stupid.

    • Jay Vaughn

      These “Liberals” aren’t liberals. They are sexist fuckwits who should be voted against with Extreme prejudice.

  • Jgb979

    There was a time during the baby inner nets when I was just an idiot undergrad that visited salon pretty regularly. (I’ll never admit to it publically).

    Republicans treat every single election as if it will bring about the apocolypse. Still far too prominent dems are of the variety “let’s just throw this election, and several others, and hand control of the country to a man who has never held elected office and ran on explicitly facist campaign! That certainly would be less bad than giving the country to Hillary Clinton!!”

    This is why dems can’t have nice things.

  • Callyson

    Like Sanders, Trump is neither beholden to special interests, nor coordinating with a Super PAC

    And unlike Sanders, TehRump has said fuck-all about what he would do to change the system that makes politicians have to answer to their big bucks donors FFS.

  • thewendyb

    Trump represents the GOP brand, and Clinton claims the mantle of progressive. If Trump fails to accomplish anything in office, or if he manages to do whatever damage he can do, he will represent the Republicans. From the Salon article

    • jmhm

      Sure, because he’s only going to be the president of them, and he’s only going to control GOP nuclear weapons and the GOP Supreme Court and the discrete and hermetically sealed GOP portion of the world ecosystem.

  • zanzibar_buckbuck_mcfate

    This is some ominous shit.

  • Ryan Denniston

    There are only two words anyone should need to reject this argument: Darth Cheney.

  • thewendyb

    .

    • MissNomer

  • jmhm

    It’s a rite of passage. Every eight years, some grad student nearing their buy-by date rides their incoherent contrarian bullshit into the lists for some small form of internet notoriety using recycled arguments from the contrarians of the previous cycle.

    Since the contrarians from the previous cycle are all senior pundits with gravitas now, this generally works out well for them. Which is to say they end up at Slate.

    • NoGoodnik

      A career to look forward to… but what is the career path that lands you at Wonkette?

      • jmhm

        I don’t know. Judging from Rebecca’s story, I’m going to say not wanting to go down that road might have something to do with it.

        • NoGoodnik

          Yeah, Shypixel, amirite?

  • baconzgood

    Well I’m convinced. I love Trump now.

    • Villago Delenda Est

      “And he loved Big Brother”

  • Pinkham’s Law

    iKEE PTELL ING You THWE;ATHAYou might aAS W3LL VOTED FOR donald if Brebnie ISNT’ THE NOMOII9N233!!!2 AND THERRES ALL MY AGRUEM3nts lazizd outn BLKND WHIT right ther#!!@!q

    • Ryan Denniston

      Also too BENGHAZI!!!1!1111

    • Antimassacree

      “I like your style!”
      –Bill the Cat

    • VirginiaLady

      Caught you this time! Get out of my cannabis liquor!

  • Constant Gardener

    Ginsberg is coming off the Court, you unsophisticated Salonian twit! And probably Breyer and Kennedy. If you don’t fucking understand the world, maybe setting it on fire shouldn’t be your go to position.

  • Antimassacree

    Rather than read Salon anymore, I go to National Review Online to watch them implode. And add a few helpful comments (via Disqus! No new account needed). Now that’s entertainment.

  • Blanche Beecham

    Am I having an acid flashback? What day is this>? Do you smell hair burning?
    This is insane!

  • Callyson

    Jesus fucking Christ, this just gets worse!

    If anything, the narrative that would emerge from a Clinton presidency would be that change isn’t possible. The parties pick the candidates,

    Yeah, it’s not as if 12 milion voters support her or anything. Fuck you, Salon

    • Spotts1701

      Or the fact that Dems don’t turn out as well as Republicans in off-years means the “farm system” of state governorships and state legislatures is getting a bit thin on talent. It wasn’t like there was another Obama sitting around waiting for his call-up to The Show.

      • NoGoodnik

        Hillary Clinton is one of the most capable caring people to have ever existed in the history of the planet. If we don’t take advantage of her wealth of experience, wisdom, and sense, then we really do deserve everything we get. We will be lucky to have had Obama and even luckier to have him succeeded by Hillary.

        • joebags

          Hilary Clinton is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I’ve ever known in my life.

          • NoGoodnik

            You KNOW Hillary Clinton!?!1! Man, and I am exchanging posts with you? You’re one lucky mo’fo! She’s dreamy, ain’t she?

      • proudgrampa

        I just don’t think that the really smart people even want to be in politics anymore. It’s why we continue getting the mediocre people running for office.

        The really smart ones run hedge funds.

        • malsperanza

          They are not all that smart, just extremely venal and single-mindedly dedicated to greed.

          Plenty of smart people in politics. On the GOP side they have all been primaried by extremists, but on the Dem side there are some great younger senators and congress members.

        • JaaaaaCeeeee

          Or work for Hillary’s economics team at BlackRock.

        • Serai 1

          Well, one of the really smart ones is running for President after 25 years of experience and even more before that working for ordinary people’s rights.

      • DoILookAmused2u ?

        I didn’t get my Public Option, so I din’t vote no more while Koch/AFP/Tea Party ran ads against Obummer and Pelosi sayin’ how theys stole our Medicare and were tryin’ to kilt us all.

        And now that millions of womens have no access to abortion or reproductive health serviceses, I thinks I is not votin’ no more ifn the Bern don’t get to be my new daddy, and this will lead to uprisin’ cuz shit iz gunna git so bads that womens gots not bortions and gays kint work no more, and the minumum wages kin be lower and… etc, etc.

        That will show the establishment.

    • Joe Beese

      Yes, but they’re all wrong.

      I kid! I kid the Hillary supporters. But it’s all in good fun.

      • Spotts1701

        Hey, at least we agree on some things! I’d rather fight with you, Joe, about the things we disagree on because we can at least come away with a little more knowledge. Fighting with Trump supporters is like fighting a brick wall.

        • Whale Chowder

          Wish I could agree with you but the Berners are getting delusional.

    • I am getting very tired of Berners and assorted media nitwits trying to pretend that 12 million of us somehow don’t exist, or our votes aren’t legitimate, or something, in order to promote this weird “everybody really hates Hillary” narrative.

      I voted for her, and I am a real live person! And a Dem! And I have been sending her money for months – in fact, she’s the first candidate I have ever felt compelled to donate to. I was totally excited to vote for her, and am excited to do so again in November. I’m so excited that I’ve managed to get my kids interested. My 16 year old actually convinced a few of his adult coworkers to vote for Hillary before my state’s primary. My 9 year old daughter drops whatever she’s doing to watch and listen when Hillary is on TV – I don’t know how much of the issues she’s understanding, but she’ll talk all day about the blonde lady with the nice smile that could be our next president (and I’ve taught her to say “down with the patriarchy!” too. My husband is thrilled.)

      So, excited. Very. It’s very insulting that people keep pretending we’re all holding our noses and voting out of fear of change or because of establishment brainwashing or something. I voted for the candidate who had the platform i liked best, and who i thought was most qualified and had the best temperement for the job. Period. And I was thrilled to get a chance to do it.

      • Valkyrie

        Thank you. I like her precisely because I think she’ll be coolly competent, has tons of experience, and understands how politics work. And the creepier I see Trump and his minions act towards women, the much, much happier I am to have her in line to kick their balls.

        • I cannot wait for the Clinton/Trump debates. I’m ready for the primaries to be over for that reason alone. She’s going to make him look like the mental midget he is in a way none of the Republicans could (because they aren’t all that much better.) It will be amazing.

          • Serai 1

            Those ads she put out are perfect. No need to say anything. He does all the work himself. Hillary’s great talent in debate is recognizing when she doesn’t have to attack, and can just let the other guy hang himself.

        • Serai 1

          I have such anticipation for seeing her take Trump on in the debates. It’s going to be epic.

      • Serai 1

        I’m the same way. No candidate is perfect, but I’ve decided that my personal preferences are not important. I’m casting my vote for Hillary in large part because of the effect it’s going to have on the next generation. Just as black children have had eight years of someone who looks like them in the White House, now all little girls will have someone who is female like them at the head of the country. My vote is going in for my nieces and nephews, who will grow up in a country where a woman president is no longer a big deal, because look, there she is. Her photo in all the post offices, schools. Her addresses on TV. (If there is still TV, of course.) The idea that women can rise to the highest office will no longer be a dream or a fantasy or a joke, but just plain old reality. I can’t imagine growing up with that, but I’m doing what I can to make sure they do.

  • 24601

    Trump won’t be able to:
    .
    Build the wall
    Collect payment from Mexico
    Make his own Trumpy Trade Deals with the world
    Deport the illegals
    Lock out Muslims
    Threaten companies leaving the US with tariffs
    Bring the $1/day sweatshop jobs back from China, India and Swaziland
    .
    Such blatant lies he spews. Overpromising. And do you notice how he never mentions working with Congress to get anything done? He thinks he’s going to be the CEO of Trump America™. If he’s elected we should sue him for breach of contract.

    • Biel_ze_Bubba

      The thought of letting the GOP fuckweasels who “repealed” Obamacare 50+ times work without the threat of a veto is too horrifying to contemplate. If they control Congress, I would not be so sure about what Trump couldn’t get done.

  • ClarkJoe

    I heard a lot of this same rhetoric during the 2000 election. If only there was something similar to hindsight that would allow us to look back and examine the consequences that it led to for our country and the rest of the world… Meh, learning the lessons from the very recent past is just part of the establishment conspiracy to control reality with facts and logic and stuff. Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to go get black out drunk, because I’m pretty sure this time it will solve all of my problems and not in any way lead to a serious hangover and/or liver damage.

    • proudgrampa

      Yeah. Well, you know, those who don’t study history are doomed blah blah blah.

      I rather enjoy a constant state of inebriation — it certainly gets me through the day.

    • Vincent Ricola

      Yep. Susan Sarandon is all over the place and the “more liberal than you” crowd wants to burn it all down because there is NO WAY Trump (Bush) does any real damage. It’s scary how similar it sounds to 2000.

      • ClarkJoe

        I don’t think the “more liberal than you” crowd realizes how illiberal they actually are.

        • eddi

          More “I’ve got mine. screw you types”.

          • Jay Vaughn

            And “Bitches be Cray”

          • Serai 1

            Have you noticed how many of them are white guys? Of course they’re fine with the world burning. They’ll always come out on top.

          • eddi

            So they believe.

          • Serai 1

            They cling more desperately to their position on top the further they slide down from it.

          • eddi

            The louder and harsher they get the more they cut the ground out from under themselves.

        • SecludedCompound

          This has been my experience. Almost all of the die hard radical authoritarian-ish leftist that want to change the world by blood and fire are pretty much in this camp. I’m starting to really hate them.

      • Jay Vaughn

        Her stupiding this year has made it harder to enjoy Bull Durham. Still rocking Rocky though cause you insult her throughout.

        • jmhm

          bet L’Oreal is _pissed_

      • malsperanza

        Most of my Nader-voting friends were absolutely sure that Gore would win easily. Truefact. They thought they could vote for Nader as a grand gesture (and/or to push Gore to the left) and still have a Gore presidency.

        Sanders is now actively feeding that same irresponsible idea. He says he no longer expects to be the nominee but it will still be useful to vote for him. The fucker has been playing with fire since day one.

        • Serai 1

          I had a feeling his “I’m just in it to influence the conversation” line was bullshit.

          • malsperanza

            Yep. :-(

      • Serai 1

        Try 1980. We got stuck with FUCKING REAGAN because of the goddamn purity voters jumping ship for Anderson.

  • proudgrampa

    “Trump will not transform America’s oligarchy into a fascist dictatorship, nor is he the second coming of Hitler. Our political culture precludes such a shift within any one presidency.”

    Bullshit. Hitler was appointed chancellor in 1933. By the end of 1934, he had full dictatorial powers.

    IT COULD HAPPEN HERE SHEEPLE!!11!!

    • Villago Delenda Est

      In 1935, he purged his own party with extra-judicial killings unprecedented in German law for centuries prior.

      • Pickwicknext

        I really need to get myself made dictator of somewhere. It sounds pretty awesome

        • Reddishrabbit

          Just make sure your Swiss account is topped off, occasionally have to run for it.

      • proudgrampa

        Indeed.

    • Captain Kraut

      Well, one can only hope that Congress is up to date on the payments for its fire insurance.

  • Bill

    this moron is clueless. Don’t know what cool-aide he’s drinking

  • Vincent Ricola

    Salon is a bastion of dipshittery.

  • I think someone has been sniffing the perm chemicals at Salon.

    • nightmoth

      Or just directly huffing the hairspray—quick and easy brain damage

      • Pickwicknext

        We must whippet!

        • Who’s a good whippet? He’s a good whippet. (This comes from one of my favorite dad jokes: What does every dog want to know before they die? Who’s a good boy.)

        • sw19womble

          Whippet real good!

    • Aquaria

      Sheesh. Y’all use such fancy stuff. We used to use Sanford Deluxe markers and Mimeograph fluid.

  • Callyson

    I wish I could stop reading this trainwreck, but:

    Moreover, rightly or wrongly, he represents America’s crypto-fascist element. The best way to discredit both of these groups is to let them fail on their own.

    “Yeah, about that…”

    – Germany

    • Pickwicknext

      Before or after Canada has to build a Westros-like wall to keep you all the fuck out?

      • ltmcdies

        if we start now….

      • LK312

        Makes me glad that my Dad was a Canadian and ensured my dual citizenship.

      • Sakonyachen

        Canada has a good education system. They will need grunt workers to build the wall. If I stay on the right side of the wall when it’s done, then I can stay in Canada. I must remember to call Canada later.

    • Hijabi Rockstar

      I always tune out the moment someone uses the phrase “crypto-[thing].”

      • Captain Kraut

        Yeah, that’s pretty much always a warning sign (Gore Vidal and Adorno excepted) that the person using the term doesn’t have a fucking clue.

        After all, what’s “crypto”-fascist about Trump, he could hardly be more openly fascist if he scapegoated a whole people/religion or replaced policy goals with vague promises of nationalistic glory…wait, what??

        • Hijabi Rockstar

          A conservative friend warned me the other day that MUSLIM SCHOLAR Reza Aslan is a “crypto-Muslim apologist.”

          I guess he just does a very poor job of hiding it?

    • SayItWithWookies

      How ’bout we let them fail on their own by not electing them? I don’t think Bragman considered that option.

      • Linda Gutierrez

        “my room mate Lori Is getting paid on the internet 98$/hr”…..!cc377gtwo days ago grey MacLaren P1 I bought after earning 18,512 DoIIars..it was my previous month’s payout..just a little over.17k DoIIars Last month..3-5 hours job a day…with weekly payouts..it’s realy the simplest. job I have ever Do.. I Joined This 7 months. ago. and now making over. hourly 87 DoIIars…Learn. More right Here !cc377g:➽:➽:➽➽➽➽ http://GlobalSuperJobsReportsEmploymentsPlansGetPayHourly$98…. .❖❖:❦❦:❖❖:❦❦:❖❖:❦❦:❖❖:❦❦:❖❖:❦❦:❖❖:❦❦:❖❖:❦❦:❖❖:❦❦:❖❖:❦❦:❖❖:❦❦:❖❖:❦❦::::::!cc377g….,….

      • Serai 1

        Pfft. You and your Earth Logic. Get the fuck out of here with that thing!

    • OneYieldRegular

      The millions who died fighting fascism would likely take rather extreme issue with Mr. Bragman’s laissez-faire attitude – if they could.

    • Lily412

      God, that is chilling.

    • formerChild

      Reading this comment thread actually makes me proud to be a Wonketeer. The level of discourse among commenters is higher than anything I’ve seen from any stadium full of pundits/analysts/elected office-holders. Even the people I don’t agree with present their arguments in a clear and cogent manner. Long live erudition.

      • Sakonyachen

        I’m actually amazed that with the level of language allowed here that there is less vitriol than “more serious” sites. And then again, not really.

        • Sir Checkmate

          I’m with you, I’ve given up on the RawStory comment boards entirely because of the sheer vitriol you can receive there.

  • Electric Ukulele Land

    Nothing will get done so let’s elect the guy who we don’t want anything to do with! And STRATEGERY!

  • NoGoodnik

    If Trump fails to accomplish anything in
    office, or if he manages to do whatever damage he can do, he will
    represent the Republicans. Moreover, rightly or wrongly, he represents
    America’s crypto-fascist element. The best way to discredit both of
    these groups is to let them fail on their own. Trump will not succeed as
    a president.
    Read more at http://wonkette.com/601201/dear-salon-set-your-dick-on-fire-and-eat-it#xPTwDPIj7TkgbzLj.99

    Jesus Fuck Me Please Christ, does this idiot understand the human misery that is the price of failure at a presidential level? Everyone needs to work for two years in a social services organization so you can understand how elections effect policy and kill people.

    Goddamned privileged asshole.

    United Fucking States of Fucking Stupid

    • Villago Delenda Est

      As long as HE is not miserable, it’s all good.

      He’s one of the people Hannah Arendt was talking about…the ones who willingly guarded the perimeters of Auschwitz.

      • NoGoodnik

        I’ve seen the havoc that bad social policy can wreak on the poor and vulnerable.

        • lroom

          I actually am poor and vulnerable and would immediately kick this asshole repeatedly in the nutz if I ever encounter him. That goes for every asshole who thinks like this.

  • coozledad

    Salon and Gawker are both trash fires The refuge of writers and readers who are without grounding in any language. Gary Legum and Amanda Marcotte should form their own site and get away from that disaster.

    Gary’s Twitter feed is better than that Salon bullshit.

    • Sardonicuss

      The list of supposed “pundit /writers /sites of the left”, that I must remember to never click on, has now grown so large – it will require it’s own spreadsheet.

      • coozledad

        They all sound like Halperin with a mouthful of pureed Republican dick from the nineties.

      • Querolous

        I like “Punditariat” or “Punditeratti”

    • Lazy Media

      Don’t leave out Huffpo. They have some major stupidity stinking up their pages on the regular. https://t.co/87NSGmgDo3

      • coozledad

        Yes. Who’s that idiot who describes himself as a “writing coach?”

      • coozledad

        Now I remember. Seth Abramson- experimental writer.

  • 24601

    I think we should pay very close attention to Trump’s VP pick because the GOP is going to grassy knoll that Trumpzilla.

    • Drumpf already has a grassy knoll on his head.

      • Pickwicknext

        Greasy knoll. FTFY

    • artem1s

      I’m guessing that’s why Cristie endorsed him. that ‘deer in the headlight’ look is him trying to figure out whether he is in the line of fire.

      • Pickwicknext

        Only becuse of Newton’s laws of motion. He is the object at rest

      • NoGoodnik

        Connally survived. I’m sure he will, too.

      • Biel_ze_Bubba

        Christie will be jettisoned as soon as he’s no longer useful – and that’s going to be a lot sooner than he thinks, since he’s even less popular than Trump himself.

    • Antimassacree

      Gotta be Ivanka! Trump / Trump 2016!

    • BMW

      My money is on Jan Brewer, who will be hailed as an awesome choice by the usual idiots.

      • Allen Jordan

        With a Carly–Brewer wrestling match on the floor of the national convention. What could go wrong?

        • eddi

          Jello or mud?

    • eddi

      For just that reason he will pick a “What? Who?” type. Completely out of right field, absolutely no experience and completely unelectable even as a trash inspector. Not even Palin.

    • Lazy Media

      What? They’re going to let some loser, Commie ex-Marine kill him through a complete lack of basic security precautions, because nobody had assassinated a president in sixty years?

      • SuspectedDemocrat

        At least until James Franco discovers a time portal and tries to stop it.

        • lroom

          But that made it worse!

      • eddi

        More likely the Secret Service will follow their ancient tradition of being drunk off their ass when the killer shows up.

        • sw19womble

          Or accidentally shoot the President in the head when turning round, a la Dallas and then cover their fuck-up up (allegedly)

          • eddi

            I keep that one in the “Plausible” column.

      • JMP

        Well nobody has assassinated a President in just a little bit less than sixty year.

    • SuspectedDemocrat

      I’m hoping for Sarah Palin, only because Gary Busey is too much to ask.

      • SullivanSt

        Tila Tequila or GTFO.

        • Bitter Scribe

          Is she old enough? I’m going with Kim Kardashian.

          • SullivanSt

            Turns 35 in October, according to wikipedia

            ETA: not natural born though. Bummer.

          • Bitter Scribe

            Huh? She was born in L.A.

            Or are you referring to all the plastic surgery?

    • Slithytoves

      Jesus. That’s what my 82 year old mother said. In different words. Hers were: “They’re gonna kill him.”

  • nightmoth

    Time for a dildo shipment to a new gang of reality-deniers?

  • BMW

    As an optimist…maybe they’re getting the stupid out of their system now instead of October/November when presenting such a ridiculous pro-Trump argument could potentially do some damage.

    • SullivanSt

      Maybe it’s kind of an innoculation attempt – hey, let’s put this argument out there, but make it so patently stupid that nobody could possibly credit it, even if someone manages to make a less pervasively inane version of the story.

      But then again, He Man Hillary Haters Club.

  • Vecciojohn LLC

    The NYT should give this prat his own column.

    • SullivanSt

      Probably too old for Mark Thompson.

    • Villago Delenda Est

      They’ve already got Brooks and Douchehat…

      • SullivanSt

        This guy makes those two’s intellects seem positively Brobdingnagian.

  • BriBerries

    “Campaign finance reform has become THE ISSUE for half of 2016’s Democratic primary voters, displacing Obamacare, abortion rights, immigration, religious freedom for Muslims, global warming, the environment, welfare, voting rights, keeping cops from killing black kids, and keeping guns out of the hands of lunatics and two-year-olds and lunatic two-year-olds.”

    It hasn’t really displaced those other issues, so much as that campaign finance reform touches and in a lot of cases precedes all of them.

    I’m talking specifically about the policy, not Trump’s ability to change it, because Trump is a garbage fire of a human. I’m going to lose it before November as more and more people try to normalize him.

  • MsAnthropesMr

    Fuck Salon. Fuck them right in the ear.

  • Vecciojohn LLC

    Us Dems are having a hard time fucking away this opportunity. I think it’s nice of old Walker to help us out.

    And add some hot sauce to your weeny before you toast it.

  • Are we sure this guy didn’t play basketball for Indiana at some point?

  • SullivanSt

    Good fucking god I just lost about 120 IQ points reading that unmitigated garbage. Pretty sure the average Trump wordsoup ramble for 90 minutes he calls a campaign speech is more densely packed with intellect.

    Without Trix’s interjections I think my brain would have simply shut down and instead of typing this I’d be collapsed, drooling, on my keyboard.

    • NoGoodnik

      How do you know you’re not?

      • SullivanSt

        I refute it thus.

        • NoGoodnik

          Your head could’ve bounced off the right keys and drool shorted out the others to have produced your posts or you could just be dreaming the whole thing… I’m just saying: when your brain shuts down, weird shit happens.

          • Villago Delenda Est

            It was the best of times, it was the blurst of times…

          • SullivanSt

            I was kind of hoping quoting [Boswell’s rendering of] Johnson would’ve avoided the descent into solipsism ;)

          • NoGoodnik

            Sorry, you forgot to kick a rock. Without that there is only solipsism. Better to have just not have answered at all.

          • SullivanSt

            I figured the ability to words would have been sufficiently material to stand in for a newly-injured foot bouncing off a boulder.

    • churl

      I just woke up. Maybe that’s where the drool on my keyboard came from. Brain…hurts.

  • Oblios_Cap

    That’s a whole lot of stupidity to have to read at one time. It’s even worse than the Doughy Pantload’s or Jennifer Rueben’s columns. It’s even stupider than a Lisa Benson editorial cartoon.

  • JohnQFugly

    “Clinton’s reliance on dark money”

    This diatribe changes daily and gets more tinfoil-hat-conspiratorial each time.

    • Villago Delenda Est

      Obviously, all the Hillary voters have been underneath a chemtrail.

      Yeah, that’s the ticket!

      • sw19womble

        Illuminati/Chemtrail 2020!

        • SullivanSt

          Not sure why an incumbent President would agree to be Queen Bey’s running mate, but I’d be in.

          • sw19womble

            It’s a classic Masonic Rite, subverting the natural order which will magickly bring about the Final Transformation of the earth’s atmosphere for our reptilian shapeshifting overlords.

        • Boscoe

          LOL Now I want that bumpersticker on my car!!!

        • Villemar

          In the meantime, Jade/Helm 2016! Take that, Sheeple!

  • Well, at least the comments on that article are somewhat reasonable, so there’s that…

    • Reddishrabbit

      They allow comments at Salon? Wow, what would Wonkette be like with comments, which of not allowed.

      • Msmlg1979

        Sick. Perverse. Heaven.

    • Hrmm… reading them further, I take that back…

  • Captain Kraut

    For want of a brain cell the election was lost.

  • Bitter Scribe

    I swear to God, Salon goes through these incomprehensible phases. During the Great Recession, it was Educated White Person Experiences the Horror of Getting Laid Off. A few years later, it was Atheists Don’t Understand the Mystical Magical Beauty of Religion. Now it’s Hillary Clinton Sucks and Must Be Stopped.

    That tells me that one or two people have an outsized influence on editorial policy and make decisions based on whim. It’s a sign of being understaffed, amateurish, or both.

    • ltmcdies

      I’m sorry there’s an editorial policy beyond …We Hate Hiltz…and attacking various comedians for imagined crimes against …Salon I suppose.

      • Biel_ze_Bubba

        Official Salon editorial policy: “Will this get us pageviews?”

        The “One weird trick they don’t want you to know about…” articles can’t be far off.

        • Boscoe

          “Progressives should support Trump” articles ARE the new “one weird trick”…

    • jmhm

      Good point. But you forgot Sex as a Woman: You’re Doing It Wrong.

      • sw19womble

        Don’t you mean “Sex as a Woman: You’re Doing It? Wrong!”

        • jmhm

          or “Acquaintance rape is the new anal and other rites of dating passage for millennials”

          • Bitter Scribe

            Thankfully, that’s confined to Camille Paglia. So far.

  • sw19womble

    Every time I get a little sneaking suspicion of concern of Hillary’s warhawkishness and perma-BFF status with Wall Street, I read some cockgoblin’s brain sharts like this Pro-Bernie toy tantrum, and realise, yeah she’s not the best “moderate” choice in the world. but I’ll take HRC over any of those disgusting neo-cons and crypto-fascists.
    Fucking grow up!

  • King of America

    Fuck Salon.
    That is all.

    • SullivanSt

      It’s enough.

  • ltmcdies

    if that picture is that guy…then he belongs to the demographic that will loose the least under a Trump/GOPer presidency.

    so how’s about you shut your piehole Walter and let’s see what a poor woman of color living in…ohh …Louisiana thinks about the lack of threat from a Trump administration.

  • Slithytoves

    “But aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the Trump presidency?”

    I think you just won the Internet for the rest of my life.

  • He seems nice.

  • DoILookAmused2u ?

    When things get so bad that people are dying in the streets or in back alleys from self-administered abortions….

    We can have our Revolution!

    Sincerely.

    Susan Sarandon.

    PS. When the dust settles, I can be reached at my Manhattan penthouse apartment.

    • jmhm

      I truly expected her to pull back before she endorsed Donald Trump. I can’t imagine why I underestimated her. It’s not as if she doesn’t have a track record.

      ^or the place in Bedford.

      • SullivanSt

        She didn’t endorse Trump. She didn’t even actually say that she believed that his awfulness would bring on the revolution, merely that she’d heard people saying that. Inside her head, probably, but…

        • jmhm

          Well, that depends how you interpret “Wait a minute — I said some people say (Trump would bring the revolution
          faster),” Sarandon said. “I’m more afraid of, actually, Hillary
          Clinton’s war record and her hawkishness than I am of building a wall, but that doesn’t mean that I would vote for Trump.”

          So, she’ll float it, she’ll make the case for it, and she’ll say it’s the rational thing to do, but she won’t actually vote for him, even though she does say that the choice she made in 2000 to draw votes away from the Democrat was right and she would do it again.

          That’s progressive of her. I’m sure the spirits of Ralph Nader’s bodyguard in hell are doing the wave as we speak.

          • SullivanSt

            Still not reasonably interpretable as a Trump endorsement any more than pointing out that Stalin may have been more murderous than Hitler is an endorsement of the latter.

            Hell, the wall’s not going to happen so I can sort of see where she’s coming from on policy grounds if taking the statement strictly at face value (I’d still disagree because I’d argue Hillary’s interventionist streak comes from the experience of watching large-scale massacres in Rwanda the former Yugoslavia, which I feel made a compelling case that blanket rejection of all possibility of our use of force overseas is an immoral position). Of course the moment you realize that (A) Trump’s wall isn’t about policy, it’s about normalizing an encouraging widespread racial animosity in a way that risks mass violence, and that (B) of course she’s nowhere near comparing like with like and Trump’s foreign policy rhetoric is a million times more terrifying than even the most hysterical Bernie fans’ characterization of Hillary’s.

            I’d also seriously question whether there’s any basis in fact for Sarandon’s version of Clinton’s “war record and hawkishness” – obviously the Iraq war vote is the Original Sin That Will Never Be Forgiven Ever Under Any Circumstance, but what else is there? The Libya intervention wasn’t Clinton’s idea, at least according to Michael Lewis‘ 2012 profile of Obama, which discusses the meeting at which the decision was made, she didn’t want to go beyond a no-fly zone.

          • jmhm

            I think you can parse it, and I think she has. I also think making the argument that the Democratic candidate is more dangerous than the Republican candidate when you’re a candidate surrogate speaking to low-information voters is at very least an invitation to double the Republican vote by voting for the Green candidate. As she did last time, and believes she was right to do.

          • SullivanSt

            “And” is also a conjunction worthy of consideration.

          • Serai 1

            Why can’t it be both?

            Seriously, the more I hear Hollywood actresses go on, the more I believe a well-trained ferret would have more interesting political opinions.

          • SadDemInTex

            Sarandon could make the case if she talked about Hillary’s “hard choice” in the Honduras civil war. Because of her choice to support a junta Honduras is an Ayn Rand paradise (in other words…a fucking murderous hell hole run by thugs who don’t care who dies and fuck the environment). Other than that…please Sarandon…your moral high ground is so cold it’s freezing your brain cells to death. I will vote for Hillary and so will Bernie.

          • nightmoth

            I’ve been a little worried about her choices since she kicked out Tim Robbins, after 23 years and 2 kids together, and became a cougar. If she has a sports car, she’s in full blown male mid-life crisis territory.

          • SullivanSt

            There’s an argument to be had there, but it can’t be had without pondering the question of what the alternative would have looked like. I mean, are we really to believe that had we asked nicely, the generals would have simply caved and let Zelaya return? Or would some force have been needed – force of the kind to which Sarandon is categorically opposed.

          • SadDemInTex

            I don’t disagree with your statement. And naturally the Republicans don’t care about this issue because it is in line with their own policy choices (which is another point in the Hillary is a moderate Republican column). But it is a choice that worries me and has continued our hideous legacy in Central and South America.

          • SullivanSt

            Shitting on Central and South America is a deeply entrenched bipartisan tradition since 1823.

          • Serai 1

            To be fair, Central America is a fucking nightmare to try and navigate. We’re still dealing with the fallout from fucking Reagan and his band of merry ghouls.

          • SadDemInTex

            I believe we are dealing with the result of Theodore Roosevelt and his policies as well. We’ve been assholes in Central and South America for over 100 years

          • Kronos

            By the way, even if one believes that the decision to intervene in Libya and topple Gaddafi was a mistake on Hillary’s part, the fact remains that Donald Trump also supported military intervention in Libya and toppling Gaddafi at the time :

            https://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/trump-claims-he-didnt-support-libya-intervention-but-he-did

            He likewise lied about his stance on the Iraq War. He thought regime change was fine in 2002, the same year Hillary voted for the war:

            http://www.vox.com/2016/2/18/11057968/donald-trump-iraq-war-2002

            Trump didn’t turn against the Iraq War until 2004, which was the same year many people started turning against it, Hillary included.

            At no point over the last 15 years has Trump proven to be less hawkish than Hillary or demonstrated more prescience than her.

            Trump has, however, demonstrated a lot more recklessness in his statements, such as his disregard for the Geneva Conventions, eager embrace of torture and war crimes, lack of understanding of the balance of power, ignorance on many key concepts such as the nuclear triad, and alienation of many of our allies.

          • SullivanSt

            And I’m pretty fucking sure that Hillary wouldn’t be brainfuckingly stupid enough to nuke Syria because ISIS and then, only then discover that “oh shit, nuclear fallout travels”, for instance, across the border Syria has with Israel. Or soulcrushingly amoral enough to think that even absent the fallout, ISIS lurks amid dense civilian populations you’d murder in enormous numbers of you used WMD against them.

            Trump gives every outward impression of being both, and then some.

          • Kronos

            Furthermore, it’s ridiculous to claim Donald Trump is still some kind of anti-Establishment rebel when his campaign is now brimming with Establishment lobbyists like Paul Manafort:

            http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/trump-turns-over-his-campaign-to-lobbyists-222242

            Nor has Trump ruled out welcoming big donors for the general election:

            http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/trump-money-donations-big/2016/04/28/id/726350/

            The “anti-Establishment” line is the same rhetorical bullshit that right-wingers have always used. It’s a sales pitch. Sarah Palin called herself “anti-Establishment” as well in 2008.

            Here’s some choice quotes from Palin back then:

            “I’m not a member of the permanent political establishment. And I’ve learned quickly these past few days that if you’re not a member in good standing of the Washington elite then some in the media consider a candidate unqualified for that reason alone.”

            “I’m not going to Washington to seek their good opinion.”

            “We’ve got to remember what the desire is in this nation at this time. It is for no more politics as usual, and somebody’s big fat resume, maybe, that shows decades and decades in the Washington establishment . . . Americans are getting sick and tired of that self-dealing, and kind of that closed-door, good-ol’-boy network that has been the Washington elite.”

            Sound familiar?

          • SullivanSt

            Well, the entire fucking thing is ridiculous.

            Just look at the fact that the number one reason Trump supporters give for their support is that “he says it like it is”, at the very same time as his minions (Carson and Manafort) run around the Republican inner circle telling everyone essentially “Don’t worry, the campaign Trump is not the real Trump”, i.e. vote Trump – his whole campaign’s a fraud.

            Then there’s the “he can’t be bought” line. He doesn’t need to be bought – he is a corporate special interest. He already agrees with them on everything! Sure you can dig up quotes saying hedge-funders will be taxed more, but he’s planning a $1 trillion a year tax slash the benefits of which would go overwhelmingly to the rich.

    • Sardonicuss

      ..or at a beautiful clinic in the Swiss Alps, should my daughter require her own abortion.

    • SullivanSt

      Yeah, I knew a guy who claimed earnestly to be an actual Marxist. He seriously considered voting Bush in 2004 to speed the revolution.

      Obviously worked out great.

      • malsperanza

        This “Revolution” the Berns keep spouting about – I keep trying to get a clear description of exactly what that would be. Somehow electing Sanders to the White House would alter the 2-party system? End dark money? Produce a progressive majority in the Senate and House (not Dems! boohiss, they are not progressive!)?

        No, it would “change the conversation.” Seriously, the whole crew belongs in a coffeehouse.

        • SullivanSt

          It’s no coincidence that Bernie’s base skews young, those who’ve had some time to watch how the world actually works (even if in disgust) know the limitations of the office.

          • malsperanza

            I learned this lesson in November 1968. Too young to vote, not too young to be a passionate McCarthy supporter. I remind myself that 18 year olds are too young to have any memory of Nader in 2000. This does not, however, explain or justify the mindboggling assholery being published by Bill Moyers and Robert Reich. (From Reich’s FB today: “I don’t know about you, but I’m getting tired of media stories and pundits telling me the Democratic race is over. Baloney. The race isn’t over until it’s over. Bernie still has a shot. …” His commenters are calling for riots at the Democratic Convention. Yep.)

          • Egret1

            Riots at the Democratic convention worked out so well for the Democrats in 1968.

          • SmotPoker

            Yeah, but this time you need to think of the clicks! All those eyeballs! A few journalistic awards for the outfits that cover it. Television ratings would explode. All that ad revenue left on the table?

            Sweet Baby Monkey Jesus On The Cross! Just think of the money!

          • SullivanSt

            Yeah, rioting and the convention would mean removing their asses from their chairs and their fingers from the keyboard.

            I don’t think I’m going to be worried.

          • Sakonyachen

            They won’t come out to vote if they don’t get their way. Don’t count on them rioting. Rioting takes a lot of effort.

          • malsperanza

            Nah, rioting is fun. This gen is out to show the Boomers that their 1968 was bush-league (and/or to emulate it). Witness the ever-so-useful violence at the California GOP meeting yesterday.

            Philly is close enough to NYC and Boston that I expect every college kid on the East Coast to show up and scream at Hillary. Par-tay! Whether they also get as far as Cleveland is harder to say, but there are bound to be locals willing to get peppersprayed for Democracy.

          • Lark_in_the_AM

            Not so much. Cleveland didn’t even riot after Tamir Rice (and we should have, but we still thought we had a prosecutor with a spine).

          • nowlo

            Reich has gone nuts this primary season. It’s hard to believe this is the same dude who served under Ford, Carter, and the hated Bill Clinton. It’s often the latest converts who are the most zealous.

          • malsperanza

            I’m almost ready to unfollow him, despite having long admired and listened to his discussions of economics and policy. Lately he’s been channeling Susan Sarandon, and it is not pretty.

          • Serai 1

            I’ve seen a lot of people I would have sworn were really smart and on the ball get suckered in by this messianic nonsense. It’s really sad.

          • Serai 1

            Jesus. Spoiled kids wanting to ape the hijinks of their grandparents. But of course, they want to be able to sneer at “the Boomers” at the same time.

          • malsperanza

            My young nieces and nephews are ardent Bernie supporters. The oldest was 5 in 2000, when Nader fucked us over. I can’t blame them for having very little perspective. Increasingly, the Sanders movement is a youth movement – something like 70% of his supporters are under 30. So lack of deep history is understandable.

            It’s thrilling that he has ignited serious political engagement of young voters–something Clinton has not been good at. But I doubt he’ll be able to convince them to vote for Clinton when the time comes. He did too good a job smearing her. Still, fingers crossed …

          • Sakonyachen

            It’s also no coincidence that those who change things because they aren’t jaded are usually young. Which well known entrepreneur, politician, educator, religious leader, changed the world after age 50? Or 40? Which is younger than I am.

          • DoILookAmused2u ?

            Huh? Ghandi says go blow yourself :) He was in his 50s when he started leading non-violent revolts

            Rosa Parks was 42 when she was arrested for not giving up her seat.

          • Sakonyachen

            So that’s two. And Parks was barely over the mark. Gandhi is my guy I can’t believe I forgot him. I always forget how old he was.

            I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t told anyone to blow themselves though.

          • DoILookAmused2u ?

            Nelson Mandela.

            Darwin published Origin of the Species at 50.

          • Sakonyachen

            Mandela was in his 30’s when he was arrested and Darwin was in his 20’s when he developed his theory. It’s not really about age other than the time it takes to achieve a goal. Although that’s pretty much the opposite of what I said earlier. Thank the Sierra Nevada brewery for my really bad representation of what I meant. Sorry if I sounded like a prick. The point was originally that age doesn’t mean much, other than where you get your information. I was trying to say that plenty young people have made dramatic changes to the world, not just older people.

          • Lark_in_the_AM

            Mahatma Gandhi, who lead the Salt March at the ripe old age of 61. Or Nelson Mandela, who went to prison at 38, endured 27 years of brutal treatment and then, after he was released from prison at the age of 65, became the principle architect of apartheid’s destruction and its first Black president at age 76. Or our own Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Susan B. Anthony, who were in their mid thirties, with Lucretia Mott, who was not yet 60, who organized the Seneca Falls Convention for women’s rights. The thirst for justice doesn’t abate with age – one just becomes more pragmatic about how it accomplish it.

          • Sakonyachen

            Doesn’t abate with age for most. Just like pragmatism isn’t strictly connected to chronology, neither is revolutionary spirit. I was pretty broad based with my comment. My intended point was that plenty people under 40 have changed stuff for the better, not so much that people don’t when they’re older because they really do(yes I know that’s not what I said, I drink a lot). Another thing about this that’s always frustrated me is the Malcolm X scenario. He was looking for radical change and was assassinated. As were several of the Black Panthers and MLK. I’m not going to bother looking up each of the Panthers but most of them were murdered before age 40 and never got the chance to achieve their goals. You have to be 35 to run for president but nobody takes you seriously until later, and then when you get older, they act like you can’t do it. It’s all very silly. I’m a big fan of John Brown, he was not a spring chicken when he said, “screw this where’s my gun?”(not an actual quote)

        • Lizzietish81

          You know what John Green said?

          “Remember that in math, a Revolution is a 360 degree turn”

          • Lark_in_the_AM

            “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.” Still true.

          • Serai 1

            The Reign of Terror was not imposed by the monarchy.

        • LSM

          That’s so privileged, it makes my head want to explode. Revolutions SUCK! You don’t just get to go hang around the barricade for two hours, clutching your latte in one hand and iPhone in the other, and then go home to your nice comfy couch and blog about it.

          People die. People are beaten up. Reputations are destroyed. Houses are burned. A TON of damage is done before the dust settles and things can start being rebuilt again. And guess what that calls for? The ability to compromise (which the Bernie supporter evidently regard as tantamount to treason).

          Makes me tired.

          • malsperanza

            I suppose they don’t mean a guns and barricades revolution. What they mean (I think) is somehow creating a vast groundswell of righteous anger that will sweep dozens of progressives into office. Like the Republican Revolution of the 1980s-90s, only in reverse. People will feel the Bern and rise up to stop Wall Street (method unspecified), switch from ACA to single-payer (insurance industry totes on board), and break up the cartel of the two-part single party, the Republicrats.

            When I ask Sanders supporters how this will happen, the answer (including on Wonkette) is : We have to try!

            In my angrier moments, I interpret that as: “We’re not going to go out and ring doorbells. We’re not going to phonebank, because getting hung up on is horrible. We will send $27 to the guy we like for the top job, but we know that can’t match what the Powers of Darkness are spending. Paying attention to the downticket races is too much work. So what is it we can do? We can Try!”

            I honestly can’t find a better explanation, even from very smart people like Bill Moyers. It is endless rhetoric and sniping at Clinton. (Because sniping at the actual badguys is too hard.)

          • Sakonyachen

            I have backed Sanders fully, but honestly, what is the plan for the revolution? I don’t care if he has a policy book like Clinton. He’s not there to be captain details, I’ve heard Presidents get to hire people to hammer out the details. But this political revolution is not something a president can mandate. It’s something that comes from years of grass roots work that Bernie(love him as I do) has not done. Bernie didn’t get the minority vote because he doesn’t have the ground work that Hillary does(even if I sometimes find it borderline offensive, which may be how the media cuts it to look bad to liberals). His revolution is possible, and he can lead it. He can’t force it even if he was elected Prez 4 Lyf though. He needs people who think like himself running for office to storm the Democratic Party looking to hold offices. He doesn’t have that. It’s no slight on my guy. I voted for him. But he’s writing checks he can’t cash. I’m not talking about how he’s gonna pay for his policies either. I’m talking about him changing the face of politics with nothing but grifters taking the money from his backers. They only just recently started backing candidates for other offices.

            I’m ranting. I came here to have fun and show solidarity. So…..
            FIIIIIIILLLL THO BUUUURNNNED!

          • malsperanza

            I could quarrel with some of your points, but yeah: this is why I bailed on Sanders early. I was willing to give him a hearing, since Clinton is more hawkish than I like. But it was clear early on that he was all about slogans and no substance. Which is not to deny that I love the things he claims to be fighting for.

            Setting aside his total lack of policy or details, I don’t believe he has what it takes to get through an average day with the Congress–and that includes a fair number of Dems from states and districts that are not Vermont, and whose citizens expect them to be more centrist than Mr. Miracle would like.

            Since March I’ve been convinced that he is just another Nader-type spoiler. I did not believe any of his promises not to go negative, or to support the Dems. And sure enough, he’s renegging on all those assurances. If I had voted for him, I would now be feeling very snookered.

          • Serai 1

            Yeah, he spent about five minutes talking about unity and then went back to being shitty again. I see no integrity there.

          • Serai 1

            Another indication of the lack of seriousness is the fact that Sanders can’t be bothered to put out any effort for down-ticket races. Not even to the extent of putting together a package of quotes. Just not important enough. And how’s he going to get people to work with him, exactly?

          • jmhm

            The painful irony is that the perfect time for that revolution, when nobody’s fundraising and barely anyone votes, would be the midterms.

          • nowlo

            Yes, focusing on midterms is how Republicans gained control of Congress and most state governments. Revolutions are a lot cheaper to fund during the midterms too.

          • malsperanza

            The what?
            ~90% of Sanders supporters

          • Serai 1

            When I realized they couldn’t even get past the fact of a Republican controlled House, I threw up my hands and jumped ship. That and the raging hatred of women, of course.

          • Sakonyachen

            Revolution means change. Violent revolution is an authoritarian thing.

          • Serai 1

            There were RIVERS OF BLOOD in France during the Revolution. These whiny pussies have no fucking idea what they’re talking about.

        • Sakonyachen

          I get Bernie’s idea of a political revolution. I don’t think Bernie gets that a fair chunk of his followers don’t get what he is saying. I think most of them think if they;
          1. Troll the internet on Bernie’s behalf
          2. Hate Clinton
          3. ?????
          4. Utopia!!!!

          • Serai 1

            It’s a lazy man’s revolution. Go around bullying people while somebody else – whoever it is – does all the work.

        • J_JamesM

          In fairness, there is one thing a politician with sufficient political capital could do to help make those things a reality in one fell swoop—ending our mathematically retarded “first past the post” electoral system and instituting nationwide ranked choice voting, preferably with automatic registration, expanded access and a voting holiday at a minimum, and ideally multi-representative districts with Australia-style mandatory voting (like jury duty, but less onerous!). Which is a mouthful, better summed up by “electoral reform.” Campaign finance reform and all those goodies would naturally follow.

          • malsperanza

            That, and nonpartisan commissions in each state for redistricting. I agree: reform of the voting process is wildly overdue.

            The present system has preserved in power politicians who are well to the right of the electorate. (Texas’s delegation a prime case in point; NY State government another.)

            unfortunately, that means the only way to get these reforms done is through the Supreme Court and/or with a big Senate majority. I plan to do all I can to give that to Hillary this fall. Then we shall see if the will is there.

    • Jay Vaughn

      Anyone that says “Revolution not Reform” can be safely ignored and mocked. They won’t get mad cause they ain’t smart ‘nough.

    • Zippy W Pinhead

      I’m not worried about the tsunami of chaos- my penthouse sits above the highwater mark

    • Egret1

      If things get really bad, Sarandon will be safely in Paris.

  • RobKanC

    I never thought I would see the day when Hilary is called the lesser of two evils in a match up with Trump. Thanks *sniffs* Salon.

    • rebecca

      she still hasn’t been. she’s their greater evil.

      • RobKanC

        Ugh. Lunch time and I typed the wrong thing. I was going to say greater. Editing it.

      • urgelt

        I read Salon pretty regularly. Y’know, Rebecca, they aren’t consistent. They have published plenty of pro-Hillary articles, too. Amanda Marcotte is one of their authors who, like you, loves her some Hillary and doesn’t care who knows it. She’s not the only one, either.

        Admittedly, Ha-ha is nutso, spewing confident predictions that hardly ever come true. I don’t know why Salon let him in the door. I cringe when he takes the podium.

        I might have to eat those words if the FBI actually indicts Hillary, but I think it’s safe to guess that it’s not going to happen.

        But that doesn’t mean that her private e-mail server was by gosh by golly okie-dokie, either. Taken with the rest of her neocon track record, progressives *should* be put off by Hillary’s candidacy.

        • JMP

          Amanda Marcotte is also the only person writing at Salon today whose work is actually worth reading. Everything else they publish nowadays is trash. Fuck, they’ve even brought back the horrible misogynist contrarian Camille Paglia.

  • TheGrandWaz00
    • ltmcdies

      I was thinking of a smaller hole but that one works

    • NoGoodnik

      At least he’ll be bent over so Drumpf will know what to do when he gets to him.

  • Electric Ukulele Land

    Was it not Mae West who said “Between two evils, I always pick the one that will fuck me up the ass the most?”

    Maybe it’s an attempt at a Swiftian type of argument. It’s only slightly less hideous than the prospect of slaughtering Irish babies for food.

  • Biel_ze_Bubba

    “Let them fail on their own”… and take the whole nation down with them? No thanks.
    This is … beyond comprehension. Truly a supernova of stupidity.

    • SullivanSt

      Also truly a supernova of stupidity: the immediately subsequent implication that Hillary would “fail” worse than Obama has “failed”, such that her failure would be followed be electoral doom in a way that his would have proven not to have..

  • Villago Delenda Est

    And the Salon editors crowd around each other, clapping themselves on
    their backs and raising Walker Bragman in a victory pile, because once
    again they just got one MILLION pageviews, and all they had to do was
    spit on their own history and turn into Breitbart.

    /highfive

    It’s all about the benjamins. Always.

  • TheBidenator

    Trumpites think they’re slick, “Oh yes vote for the Trumpster liberals because even though he’s racist and terrible and goes against everything you stand for he’s not Hillary and WAAAHHH we’re mad Bernie isn’t getting the nod” I said this to perspective PUMA’s in 2008 and I’m saying it now: FUCK YOU and GROW UP.

    • SullivanSt

      I saw Trump’s taken to explicitly begging Bernie to mount an independent campaign when he loses the nomination.

      Desperation apparently already set in.

      • sw19womble

        Is this going to be a quid pro quo?

      • malsperanza

        The sad thing is that Sanders supporters are embracing this, without any self-awareness whatever.

      • JaaaaaCeeeee

        Trump’s now telling people on television that Sanders ended his campaign Wednesday, in the Indiana town hall.

        • Whale Chowder

          That’s OK, the Berners are blaming Hillary (fer realz).

        • SullivanSt

          Didn’t he whine oh-so-deafeningly-loudly about Cruz saying Carson was going to drop out?

  • r€nato

    I despair at the number of progressives who learned jack and shit from the Cheney-Bush era.

    A Trump presidency would be like having W all over again, only without the restraint and good judgment.

    “no matter how bad things are, they can always get worse.”

    • Beaufighter

      I’m guessing some of these louder “progressives who missed the Cheney-Bush era” were in grade school.

      • r€nato

        maybe some, but I really think the majority are just left-wing teabaggers, purity or bust.

        I’ll put up with a flawed, corporate Democrat Hillary presidency before a completely unqualified, reckless conman as president and leader of the free world.

        • Egret1

          I wonder how many of these purists bothered to vote during the midterms or support progressives running for other positions.

          • Whale Chowder

            NOT,K

  • natoslug

    Did I miss Salon’s lead ingestion contest?

  • Sardonicuss

    It is official. The attacks on Hillary (from the left!) are now surpassing the most insane vitriolic garbage that was lobbed at her (from the right) during the mid-nineties peak of “Clinton Derangement Syndrome”.

    • eddi

      Now we get the “vast Left-Wing conspiracy” since the Right failed totally.

      • Sardonicuss

        At least the craziest stuff from the 90’s was coming from “disreputable” sources that rarely saw daylight. The $80 million in wasted taxpayer dollars going after Whitewater and “shocking blowjob” not withstanding.

    • phoenix00

      +1 Ken Starr and a stained blue dress

  • pgjack

    I remember when GW Bush was elected I thought he was a fool but seemed harmless. That turned out not to be the case. The case against Hillary is built on the lies about her put forth by the GOP and a grand misunderstanding of the US government and history. This is a democracy and that means we compromise – Hillary’s record in the senate shows that she is good at working with other lawmakers. History has shown that presidents wield a great deal of power. To place this power in the hands of a man who’s only goal in life has been the aggrandizement of himself would be extraordinarily foolish. The Salon writer is a fool and Salon apparently has been imbibing heavily in the GOP cool aide as far as their opinion of Hillary is concerned.

    • SullivanSt

      It’s particularly mindblowing when the author chooses to single out an area where the President unquestionably has authority to act without Congressional approval – (goose-)stepping up deportations. Admittedly there’d be power-of-the-purse issues, but an election where Trump wins would also overwhelmingly likely be one where the GOP retains control of both chambers of Congress, and while they love to blather on about the deficit this has never once dissuaded them from throwing YOOOOOOOOOOJ piles of cash at their own policy preferences, like being insufferable dicks to brown people.

  • anthrodiva

    I stopped reading Salon 15 years ago. I hated them before hating them was hip.

  • natoslug

    “I’m going to burn this fucker down if I don’t get my way” is a pretty stupid way to go through life.

  • Reddishrabbit

    Just about Garland, I’d hope the writer understood that it was decided because of the precedent set by Citizen United? As an appellant court can’t just reverse the Supreme Court.

    • LSM

      Apparently, in their world, he can. Also, unicorns.

  • Whollyholeyholy

    Is this like some kind of New Modest Proposal? Please. Maybe? I need to go lie down.

  • Biel_ze_Bubba

    Thanks to fucktard GOP congresscretins, the next president’s first order of business is going to be selecting Scalia’s replacement. Can this asshole seriously want Trump to attend to it?

    • Rick Hill

      Well, it would go to the highest bidder rather than the most rabid ideologue…what a choice to make

      • ltmcdies

        yeh you keep telling yourself that bed time story.

        • Rick Hill

          You don’t think that there’s one move a Preznit Turnip would make that was not coming from a financial consideration? Sorry, I did intend that another republican would make an ideological appointment, not HRC

          • SullivanSt

            Remember the promise of the list of possible nominees, as part of Trump’s strategy to win over rabid ideologues?

            Yeah, it’ll be the highest bidder picked from the shortlist of rabid ideologues deemed acceptable by other rabid ideologues.

          • Rick Hill

            You don’t think that trump is reading his own script, right now? How many other deals has he reneged on? Most recent;y “Go ahead and hit these people, I’ll pay your legal bills.”

          • SullivanSt

            His target audience with that one includes the people that must vote for his nominee for him to get seated (I feel safe assuming that Trump’s nomination would be male). So I don’t assume that he’d stick to it because he has a shred of integrity anywhere in his pathetic existence, I assume he’d be more or less compelled to stick to it for reasons of political necessity.

            Offer to pay legal fees was couched in a way that seemed specific enough to the exact circumstance in which he made it to allow him to wriggle out of it when it actually happened in a different circumstance without causing sufficient dissonance to overcome the blind loyalty his terrifying hoards have for him.

    • GunToting[Redacted]

      Best season of The Apprentice EVAR.

      • SullivanSt

        I don’t know that being kicked in the balls is better than being punched in the stomach.

  • Rick Hill

    “…it would force our leaders to have a real conversation”

    Yeah. About that. It’s more likely there will be constant incendiary remarks and a lot to do over nothing while the y slowly dismantle our safety nets, SS, public trusts, etc, etc. We’ll have the same growth spurt in democracy when Nader forced us to change our approach to politics.

    • Egret1

      We will be fighting to save the Endangered Species Act and Title IX. Roe v. Wade will be gone. And without a Democratic president, the Republicans will finally be able to repeal Obamacare. In other words, those of us with pre-existing medical conditions are screwed.

      • Rick Hill

        Net neutrality, EPA, basically anything that benefits consumers and average Americans.

  • Lizernst

    Thanks for bringing this “article” to my attention, Wonkette. I stopped reading that rag Salon years ago, so I would have certainly missed it otherwise.

  • Boscoe

    Luckily, no young people read Salon.

  • Biel_ze_Bubba

    I’m sure the Supreme Court was relieved when Garland “upheld” them. *headdesk*

    Is Salon actually paying US Ameros for this level of stupid, or is there something else going on?

    • Egret1

      I hope not. Because there are writers out there with a working knowledge of history and civics, who deserve the money more.

  • Fillet John

    We all witnessed the beautification of the GOP with purity tests and cannibalism. So Salon can go sit in the car in the garage with the doors closed and the motor running. And if you support Bernie and even think of supporting the GOP, you are just as fucked in the head.

  • urgelt

    Rebecca, you seem to be so eager to seat a woman in the White House, you’re willing to overlook a very serious true fact: Hillary is not a progressive. So how can she deserve progressive votes?

    She’s got a long track record, you can look this stuff up. She’s a proponent of regime change in foreign policy. She’s anti-Wall Street reform. She loves her some drug war, and was a huge proponent of harsh sentencing which, along with the drug war, catapulted us into first place in per capita imprisonment. She’s ambivalent at best on raising the minimum wage. She’s pro-fossil fuel corporation subsidies. pro-fracking and anti-carbon tax. Her campaign is almost entirely funded by the 1%, who know her to be an honest corrupt politician: when bought, she stays bought. She’s raked in uncountable millions in ridiculous speech fees (what can she possibly say in forty minutes that’s worth well over $300K? Wouldn’t you like to know?) and donations to the Clinton Foundation, where she parks loyal political fund raisers on a nice salary – legal bribery, folks. She devised a strategy for keeping the embarrassing parts of her Secretary of State correspondence out of the public eye with her private e-mail server, and she mishandled classified documents to boot.

    She doesn’t advocate for progressive reforms; instead, she tosses out optics: half the cabinet will be women, yay!. Carefully selected to toe the establishment line and maintain the status quo, but women! Think of it! The White House will have to be remodeled to add more women’s bathrooms, that’s progress!

    It isn’t progress. It’s just optics.

    Trump is despicable. I sure won’t argue he deserves progressive votes.

    Know who does? Jill Stein, Green Party. Now there is a lady with chops. Her only flaw? She’s got no money. The 1% ignores her (of course), and mainstream media pretends they never heard of her, so the little people like you and me don’t donate, either. On the plus side, she’s honest, incorruptible, highly intelligent, and is the only progressive who’ll be on the ballot in November.

    • Whollyholeyholy

      Vote for Nader! What could go wrong?!

      • Villemar

        Fifth time’s a charm!

    • coozledad

      Oh for fuck’s sake.

      • lroom

        I second that.

        • coozledad

          I just put it there in case Callyson was busy.

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            probably walking the dogs

      • urgelt

        That’s shorthand for ‘support what the Democratic Party leaders decide is best, even if what they decide is pure Reagan Republicanism/neoliberal/neocon bullshit with corruption for icing.’

        • SullivanSt

          No, it’s shorthand for “ugh, what an idiot”.

        • coozledad

          Republicanism/neoliberal/neocon

          Straight from the Bilmon1/ Salon stylebook. There are some indications it’s not an exclusively generational pathology, but this is clearly one of the autism spectrum disorders

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            no kidding

        • Playonwords

          Slow hand clap – I’m so glad you have a smaller grasp on reality than Wolfie in “Citizen Smith”

    • ltmcdies

      Trump voter…for all intents that’s what happens when you voter Stein…it is what it is.

      but I’m sure Trump will hard on the fossil fuel industry for you so…it’s all good

      • urgelt

        If causing Hillary to lose in November serves as a wake-up call to the Democratic Party that ignoring their base is bad for elections, then it’ll be worth it.

        • nmmagyar

          The way Gore losing to Bush did? Carter to Reagan? It’s horseshit to allow an avowed enemy of the things you hold dear to be elected because the other guy isn’t as supportive as you’d like them to be.

          • urgelt

            Gore didn’t lose. He won. Don’t tell me you didn’t notice?

            His victory was stripped by the Supreme Court. But electorally, that election belonged to Gore.

            Carter wouldn’t have beat Reagan even if his race had had only two candidates in it.

          • JMP

            And all of us idiots who voted for Nader, we were directly responsible for W. Bush and all the horrible things he did. It’s the worst thing I’ve ever done in my life, and I can’t believe anyone could be so stupid as to want to repeat that mistake again so soon after that.

          • urgelt

            If voting your conscience is the worst thing you’ve ever done in your life, you are a genuine, gold-plated saint.

            Put in a good word for me with the Sky Father, will you?

          • JMP

            No, I was voting as a stupid, privileged, callow and self-centered youth, who put my own feelings of self-satisfaction above the actual well-being of everyone else in society. If I had listened to my actual conscience then I would have had to vote for Gore. Helping elect Republicans by voting third party is not voting your conscience, in fact it goes directly against it.

          • nmmagyar

            Apparently you missed the 8 years of W.

          • Lizzietish81

            And you know what? It wouldn’t have gone to court if the idiots voting for Nader had voted for Gore.

        • Spotts1701

          You’re not a progressive. You’re a nihilist. And a damn stupid one to boot.
          How many people have to suffer in the name of your precious purity? How much damage will it take? Will you suffer? I got a shiny nickel in my pocket that says you won’t.
          Here’s some advice: political parties do not operate under the idea that refusing to vote for them is “punishment” that requires them to change their ways. You are giving the party instead license to ignore you, marginalize you, and decide that if you aren’t reliable enough to support them then why should they care about you?

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            this is the worst conceit from the Bern or Bust crowd, the idea that their petulant tantrum will change anything. Millions of people don’t vote every election, a million and one won’t mean a thing. The GOP will double down on whatever got them elected, the Dems will try that much harder to appeal to the people who voted for them and neither of them will breathlessly run to these special snowflakes to beg for forgiveness.

          • urgelt

            Well, actually, parties do exactly that.

            They’re tugged in two directions. Big money does massive tugging, of course. Voters tug, too. Politicians can’t veer too far from either.

            What you are arguing is that voters shouldn’t bother to do any tugging. They should just go along to get along, take what the Party serves up even as the Party moves rightward beyond the rightwing territory occupied by Reagan.

        • bluegal

          I’m fascinated that “it’ll be worth it” statements are always made by someone who will never need an abortion or a school lunch.

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            or get deported, or have their Mosque burn down, or lose the ability to marry their partner or lose their ACA coverage or their job or their minimum wage guarantee or their housing or…

          • Egret1

            Or be told that they can’t use the bathroom

        • Jenny

          You’re not the base. If the purity part of the party showed up to vote it would already be “pure.”

          When these so called progressives show up to vote in every election, register democrats, and financially support candidates in every race, even the boring ones, then you can call yourselves the base.

          The person the “base” supports is Hillary. The end.

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            We can’t win the primary, we don’t show up for off year elections, we don’t vote down ticket or support those candidates, we regularly badmouth the party, we don’t GOTV or fundraise- but we’re “the base”

            ROFL

          • bupkus23

            Yeah – this guy is mirroring the same idiocy of “conservatives” – who think they’re in the majority, and are the only “Real Americans” ( or in urgelt place, the only “Real Democrats” ).

            I always knew the stupidity afflicted both sides ( the only area where “both sides do it” ), it’s just depressing to see someone on the left demonstrate it with such arrogance.

          • urgelt

            Conservatives think they’re in the majority of the entire electorate. That is indeed arrogant and idiotic.

            Progressives think they’re in the majority in the Democratic Party. But they’re split. There are those who buy the ‘lesser of two evils’ argument and don’t vote their conscience, and that lets the Party veer rightward and become more corrupt. And there are those who vote their conscience… and those are definitely a minority in the Party.

            It’s not idiotic to argue for your point of view and attempt to persuade others. That’s sort of what the founders had in mind when they wrote the Constitution.

          • bupkus23

            “It’s not idiotic to argue for your point of view and attempt to persuade others.”

            Sure – but when you make statements ( as presumably part of your argument ) like this one:…

            “If causing Hillary to lose in November serves as a wake-up call to the Democratic Party that ignoring their base is bad for elections, then it’ll be worth it.”

            …you;ve already lost. I cannot see any other thing you say as being persuasive after that.

        • Playonwords

          There will not be a “Democratic Party” if Trump wins the election because the only way it will move is further to the right. This is what happened to the British Labour Party after Thatcher and we ended up with Tony B. Liar, Baron Basra and Messiah of the Banks.

        • Lizzietish81

          Just like in 2000. Do you really have no inkling of history?

        • Gleem-McShinez

          Oh, that will be the message?

          You know, an alternate lesson they might learn is “Let’s be sure to strangle the fuck out of any 3rd party spoilers in their cribs, for the rest of forever, so we don’t have that problem from 2016 ever again.”

          I don’t know how you’d tell the difference though, since there are exactly zero elected Green Party members of Congress, so far.

        • ltmcdies

          so your in a position to ride out 4 or 8 Trump years? Not AA or Mexican or Muslim….or female….or sick ….or in the military because everybody know no GOPer would ever send the American military overseas to invade countries full of brown people. No RW Supreme Court nom will ever affect you?

          Because elections are all about delivering wake up calls to parties to sooth their “base” and their itty bitty feelings.

          • urgelt

            Progressives have been left in the cold for a long time now. They have no party to whom loyalty makes any sense, other than the Greens.

            But they tend to stick with the Democrats because of that ‘lesser of evils’ argument. And America just keeps getting more corrupt and more right-wing.

            Vote your conscience.

          • ltmcdies

            no election is just about “you” or how chilly you are.

    • jmhm

      Are you capable of considering the possiblity that people making exactly the argument you’re making have allowed the Republicans to push the world so close to the brink that we may be past the climate change tipping point? Can you grasp that even if your candidate didn’t get them, minorities and poor people should not have their votes taken away?

      Are you clear that among the litmus tests for Republican Supreme Court candidates is membership in a society which stands for limiting the franchise to white male property owners who believe that every case which took us away from chattel slavery was decided wrong? Do you realize that if a Republican takes the White House, they will end the decade with a six seat majority?

      If you do know any of that, you’re profoundly wrong to be making the argument you’re making. If it’s news to you, read a book.

      • bupkus23

        He seems to have the same mindless devotion to “principle” as die-hard conservatives do – and the same delusion that there are enough of his type of “progressive” to carry an election of Jill Steins.

        No actual consideration of “real life” issues, no matter how bad they suck – just stand on his “principles” and allow the worst to come about. At least he could say, “Don’t blame me, I voted for Stein”. Moronic

        • urgelt

          Funny. When conservatives pushed their purity ideals, they scrubbed their party of RINOs.

          The Dems are almost all DINOs. They talk rhetoric but fail to deliver.

          Time for a purge.

          • pending

            I’ve been curious about what possible motivation was behind this recent mindset among supposed progressives. Thanks for showing me that it’s simple staggering ignorance of politics and history.

          • JMP

            I’m also wondering how the pro-Trump “progressives” don’t know the difference between a primary and a general election.

          • Jenny

            I know! It’s pretty easy though if you only use Facebook for political updates.

          • urgelt

            False assumption. I’m not on Facebook at all.

          • urgelt

            I’m not pro-Trump. I loathe Trump. He’s an egotistical narcissist.

            But the ‘lesser of two evils’ argument holds no water with me. I’ll support candidates who embody my progressive values. If that puts me into a minority, okay. That’s democracy.

          • JMP

            If you don’t vote or vote third party, then you are voting for Trump. Period. Remember how Ralph Nader gave us the disaster of W. Bush. But hey, the lives of all the people who died because of of that are nowhere near as important as your precious purity that might be soiled by voting for a candidate who is not quite perfect, you self-centered little prick. Go fuck yourself.

          • urgelt

            So… which of my points about Hillary’s right-wing credentials is ignorant, exactly?

          • pending

            You’ve been all over the place in this comment section, so I don’t blame you for losing track of what my comment was actually in response to.

            I was specifically referring to your idea that purity tests have been great for the Republican party, what we really need in politics is more ideological purges. You’d have to be willfully ignorant of so, so much to actually think this that it makes it obvious there’s no point in listening to anything you have to say.

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            Funny, the GOP is in serious danger of melting down. Oh hey, let’s do that too!

            Fucking idjit…

          • urgelt

            Bah, it’s not idiotics to want to purge corruption and restore progressivism in the Democratic Party.

          • Villemar

            I assume you’re talking about Purity Purges, and not the movie franchise. That’s a brilliant idea, Robespierre! Will there be defenestrations?

          • urgelt

            The Republicans managed their purity campaign without throwing anyone out of windows (literally).

          • Villemar

            First, congratulations on your ability to look up words. Secondly, are you actually saying that the Republicans are in great shape right now, thanks to the Tea Party and their purity purges? You’re batshit crazy if you actually think that. I mean, the Democratic Party might seem to be in disarray at this very specific moment in time, but this internecine Democratic Primary drama is like the Teacup Ride in Disneyland in comparison to what the Republican Party is going through right now. Like it or not, things will settle down by July on the Democratic side by convention time. A little drama? Sure. But watch the fun in August. There is a very serious chance of a contested Republican convention. All hell will break loose. That’s a guarantee. Come back here in a few months and see if I’m right or not.

            I know you hate the idea of a Republican not winning in November. Are you Walker Bragman? Or just utterly insane?

      • urgelt

        I admit, I know all of that.

        Problem: triangulation by the Democrats moves us *all* to the right.

        Problem: *both* parties rely on the 1% and serve them loyally. The Dems have a few exceptions, but they’re a tiny minority.

        Problem: unless progressives punish the Democrats for abandoning progressive issues, they won’t have a motive to serve their base.

        Problem: the climate scientists for whom I have the highest regard are very concerned that it’s already too late to stop warming beyond 3 degrees centigrade (compared to pre-industrial climates). We do need to act to prevent things getting even worse, but neocon Hillary takes money from fossil fuel corporations. She won’t act forcefully. Her one big virtue is when bought, she stays bought.

        Problem: Neither Trump nor Hillary supports a carbon tax or eliminating subsidies to fossil fuel corporations.

        Democrats need to be taken to the shed and spanked so they’ll do their damn jobs and support progressive causes. Until we do that, all we’ll get is hand-wringing and rhetoric while legislation supports the status quo (or makes it worse).

        If Hillary were any kind of progressive, even an imperfect one, I’d sign up to your strategy. But she isn’t.

        I’m not siding with Trump. But I think the time has come to vote our consciences, not settle for bad over worse. If that hands the Presidency to Trump, it’s terrible. But if we don’t, the Dems will continue to ignore progressive issues, and progress on CO2 emissions reductions will be glacial.

        The only candidate who will be on the ballot in November who deserves votes from progressives is Jill Stein. She’s this year’s Nader. She has my support. The Greens are the only game in town for progressives until/unless the Dems start paying attention to their base. If we cave in and support another blue dog Reagan Democrat, we won’t get anywhere at all.

        • jmhm

          Problem: you’re playing wizard chess with the lives of people who don’t have the protections you do.

          Problem: the leaders of your chess club have done this before, and a lot of those powerless people died.

          Problem: apparently this doesn’t bother you enough to want to keep Donald Trump from turning this country into the Handmaid’s Tale with a nuclear arsenal.

          Problem: No, that’s it. People who support positions I think are profoundly wrong and morally bankrupt get to vote. You’re apparently one of them.

          Which is fine. Although it seems improbable that if you are who you say you are and you believe what you purport to believe you’re going to continue to be so privileged.

          • urgelt

            So my supporting Jill Stein, a genuine progressive, is morally bankrupt?

            :Look in the mirror.

          • JMP

            You are supporting Donald Trump, who is not a genuine progressive. Yes, that is morally bankrupt.

          • jmhm

            Your privileging your purity over the lives of people who can’t defend themselves from the consequences of your choices is morally bankrupt in my view, yes.

          • If Jill Stein were a genuine progressive, she wouldn’t support handing the country over to fascists.

            Jill Stein is just another rich white Republican stooge. Just like you, Mr. Anonymous Honkey Fratdouche.

          • urgelt

            Cute, Scott. I’m no more anonymous than you are.

            I have literally no idea what you’re nattering on about. Handing the country over to fascists?

            I even ran a Google search on ‘Jill Stein handing the country over to fascists.” Nothing.

            Y’know, it’s not healthy to overconsume LSD.

            I like your insult, though I never was a fratboy and have never douched, as I lack the necessary lady parts.

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            nothing worse than smug special snowflakes wallowing in the privilege, ready to burn it all down knowing that all that privilege means they likely won’t suffer the catastrophic consequences that they are so eager to see others suffer.

        • Playonwords

          I’m sure as you are drinking your latte and weeping about another “thug” gunned down by the police you can console yourself that the poor soul could not have afforded healthcare since the removal of the Affordable Care Act. I know you will deeply regret the fact that Chief Justice Roy Moore and 7 other Supreme Court Justices have ruled that abortion is murder in all cases.

          As Aretha Franklyn put it so well, “Think!”

        • Kathleen Warnock

          Well, I am one of teh geighs, and I see a YUUUUGE difference between the Democrats and Republicans.

    • Jenny

      Fuck off with your purity bullshit.

      • urgelt

        If you are not gravely disturbed by neocon Hillary’s track record, then you are not a progressive.

        • Jenny

          Newsflash! I’m not. I’m a “neoliberal” corpocrat who lives in reality.

          • urgelt

            Ideology isn’t reality, Jenny.

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            that’s pretty rich coming from you

          • urgelt

            While ideology is invariably a part of any political discussion, Zippy, Hillary’s track record is that of a Reagan Democrat. A blue dog. She is not a progressive. She’s right wing even in the strange right-shifted terrain of modern American politics. That terrain was right-shifted by none other than her husband Bill, the supreme triangulator. He showed us that the Democrats, too, could rake in money from the 1% if they served the 1% loyally. Most of them have piled on, but Hillary and Bill are the architects of this change.

            Saying so isn’t an expression of ideology. It’s true no matter where you sit on the ideological spectrum.

            There are any number of valid litmus tests you can apply to draw that conclusion, but just take Wall Street as an example. Progressives want a transaction tax to curb speculators. Hillary opposes it. Progressives want ‘too big to fail’ banks to be broken up. Hillary opposes that, too. Progressives want bad actors on Wall Street to be prosecuted for deceptive banking practices. Hillary, not so much. Progressives want Glass-Steagall reinstated. Not Hillary. You’re more likely to get Wall Street reform out of Trump than Hillary. (Which isn’t saying much.)

            Progressives want single payer health care. Hillary, not. Progressives want a carbon tax and an end to fossil fuel subsidies. Hillary says we mustn’t. Progressives want an end to the drug war. Hillary likes the drug war. Progressives want an end to America’s status as the most imprisoning nation on Earth. Hillary takes money from the prison industry and is fine with it. She takes the corporate stance on *everything.* As SecState she lobbied hard for TPP, her recent shift on that is optics, too. All she does that’s progressive is optics. When it comes down to decision time, she’ll take the corporate side every time.

            That’s political analysis. It’s not even criticism if it’s viewed from the right. That’s why David Koch thinks he can work with Hillary.

            He’s right. He *can* work with her, because he can pay her handsomely, and she does not betray her bill-payers.

            You really should not dismiss political analysis unless there are errors being made in it. Where are the errors?

          • Jenny

            Totally weird how that statement isn’t resonating within your own mind. That’s a special skill you possess. I’m sure it will come in handy for you one day.

          • Lizzietish81

            This is true…to bad you lack a sense of irony

          • leemoder

            heh-heh. zing!

        • Zippy W Pinhead

          you don’t get to decide that, you smug pretentious asshole

        • MissNomer

          ,,,,

    • Villago Delenda Est

      You know, you didn’t need to waste all those bits to tell us you’re a dickhead.

      • urgelt

        I guess it’s too much to hope for that comments at a snark site will ever be anything more than snark.

    • Constant Gardener

      “I’m going to send a protest message and vote for Ralph Nader, what could it hurt?” said almost 3 million d-nozzles in 2000, including 97,000 in Florida where Bush won by 537 votes . That gave us John Roberts and Sam Alito, not to mention the Iraq quagmire and all those killed and maimed kids. It fucking hurt.

      • Robert

        I think your thinking and writing talents are wasted at Wonkette. Might , almost, be worth signing up there to directly address the derpness of that article.

        • Constant Gardener

          Kind of you to say, but I am only a pale shadow of you and the rest of the climate war heroes I follow, Robert.

          • Robert

            Thank you, but I do follow you because you’ve produced many well defended and stiringly written comments.

    • SullivanSt

      Your points are, in some order: horseshit, bullshit, garbage, trash, nonsense, and just plain fucking wrong.

    • rebecca

      Thanks but I already voted for Nader twice. I’m cool not losing again.

      • Rick Hill

        Nader? Twice?

        • Zippy W Pinhead

          more of that Dem vote fraud

        • rebecca

          96 represent!

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            96 tears…

          • JMP

            At least 96 was not a competitive election, so voting for a protest candidate then was harmless.

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            not to mention that Bob Dole wasn’t an insane fascist

          • Lizzietish81

            But so quaint by today’s standards

      • Zippy W Pinhead

        thanks for this article, Trix. Now let’s go after the big boys, also too. There’s a whole bunch of asshats on my TeeVee who need a reality check

      • Marceline

        I voted for Nader. I will always hate myself for that.

        If I got access to a time machine, I’d go back and slap Nader-voting me until I got carpal tunnel.

        Then I’d go to Kenya and watch Obama be born.

        • Rick Hill

          If it will make you feel better, I voted for Reagan, twice(Don’t tell anyone around here, I’ never live it down) ‘Course, my whole family voted republican their whole lives and I didn know any better. I figured things out by the time Bush 1 ran, though…

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            Dude!

          • Rick Hill

            Hey, I was young and had no clue. I was in the Navy too. Reagan doubled our salary and benefits so….also, it was hardly as though my one vote would have made a difference….unlike a vote for Nader.

          • Spotts1701

            Eh, I voted for some dumb Republicans too – it comes with learning. But never in a competitive race where there was viable opposition.

          • Rick Hill

            Never since then, for me.They pretty much eliminated being able to vote for the person, not the party.

          • Kathleen Warnock

            I voted for John Anderson.

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            My first vote was against Saint Ronnie, as was my second (POTUS anyways)

          • alpacapunchbowl

            I don’t admit this to just anyone, but my very first time in a voting booth, I pulled the lever for the RonnieBomb. That said, I was 3yo and my mum wanted me to see the electoral process firsthand and get excited about it. The idea behind it was pretty awesome, I remember the experience vividly, and I vote in every election but… I voted for Reagan :(
            I voted for Nader twice also too, but in my defense each time I was living in a state that was clearly going to go to Clinton (Wisconsin) or Gore (Illinois) anyway, otherwise I would have been a goddam pragmatist and changed my vote appropriately.

    • Rick Hill

      You’ve really missed TBogg’s blog, haven’t you?

    • Zippy W Pinhead

      Jesus, you people are insufferable

    • JMP

      Remembher 2000? Fuck Jill Stein, fuck any idiots who try to help elect Trump by voting third party, and double fuck those who try to convince others to do the same.

      Oh, you know who is not a progressive? Anyone who votes for Jill Stein. By saying that your own special little purity is more important than the actual outcome of the election, you are making t5e election all about you while showing that you don’t care at all about everyone who will be harmed by a Trump Presidency. You just your head stuck too far up your own to care about the greater good, because it’s all about your feelings.

      You have no right to lecture us on Clinton allegedly not being a progressive (which she is) when you are just an anti-progressive narcissist.

      • Zippy W Pinhead

        When preening for your equally pretentious friends at the local coffee shop and gloating about your supposed superior progressive cred becomes more important than giving a shit about the people around you, this is the result- clueless fucks who think they hold some mythical high ground as they throw millions of people under the bus so they can parade around as more-liberal-than-thou.

        • Egret1

          Not that long ago, Salon printed an article by a woman who criticized white belly dancers for cultural appropriation.

          Apparently, white women participating in belly dancing is terrible but Muslim-Americans losing their civil liberties is okay.

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            I always figure white women belly dancing was the second most entertaining way to watch them lose weight and tone up next to pole dancing

          • Querolous

            Should belly dancing and pole dancing be Olympic gymnastic events?

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            without a doubt…

          • phoenix00

            +1 stripclub aka rehearsal space

          • urgelt

            Salon often prints insane stuff.

      • Gleem-McShinez

        But you forget at all the Green Party Members that have gotten elected to Congress, which will easily allow all of their President’s legislation to totally pass!

        • JMP

          If the Green Party actually wanted to work as a legitimate third party to push the Democrats to the left, they could run candidates for local elections in cities where the Democratic Party is effectively the only game in town, and for Congress is safely liberal districts. But instead they just try to get attention with quixotic runs for the Presidency every four years, and that’s it.

          • Gleem-McShinez

            You have won every internets on the prizeboard, my robot friend!

          • urgelt

            There’s a little problem with funding. The Greens don’t have much.

    • Pierre_de_Fermat

      I think she was also behind the burning of the Reichstag and she personally shot Vince Foster with a silenced Walther PPK. There have been questions raised about her involvement with the Lindbergh Kidnapping, but right now that is just speculation, so I don’t want to get into it. And Bill Buckner’s missing that ground ball in 1986? Totally her. Now what to expect in the future? Those FEMA camps so ineptly run by PBO — not on her watch! First to go will be the Democrats who don’t toe the party line. They will expand of course, but I think we all see where this is heading. But I’ve warned you! Vote Trump! It’s your only hope.

      • HuffPo_refugee

        There’s only one thing wrong with that analyses; everybody knows she carries a Glock.

        • Pierre_de_Fermat

          She does now. The Walther is in pieces at the bottom of the Baltimore Canyon. So are the people who have asked too many questions about it. But perhaps I’ve already said too much? Oh, gotta go — FedEx at the door.

        • Gleem-McShinez

          And she calls it “Hot Sauce!” TRUE FACT

      • MissNomer
        • Pierre_de_Fermat

          Oh dear dog it’s worse than I thought!

        • Querolous

          Fan of the Cubbies? Clearly delusional.

        • SeeTrain65

          She’s also Keyser Soze.

    • anwisok

      Not worth my time to think of anything clever, so I’ll just go with: Fuck you for helping Trump.

    • AnOuthouse

      Rush, is that you?

    • Playonwords

      And how likely – outside of a fairy story – is it that a Green will be President. I know fantasies are sweet and enjoyable but they have fuck all to do with reality.

      I repeat

      The Donald will let the GOP reduce taxes on the wealthiest and abolish what few minimum wage laws there are.

      He will allow the flawed Obamacare system to wither in a return to the deadly pre-Obama healthcare system.

      He will support the abolition of federal minimum wage standards.

      He will allow a return to the use of cluster bombs and chemical weapons as “cheaper” methods of intervention.

      He will allow the few limitations on fossil fuel use to lapse.

      He will allow the Bureau of Land Management to die.

      He will allow environmental protections to go unenforced.

      He will stuff the Supreme Court with regressive and fascist judges.

      This is what you are voting for if you do not vote Hillary.

    • Bemused

      FFS.

      Hillary worked for the Children’s Defense Fund. Then on the Senate subcommittee on migrant workers, which researched migrant problems in housing, sanitation, health and education. She volunteered at Yale’s Child Study Center AND at she took on cases on child abuse and at Legal Services (which provided free legal service to the poor). Once she graduated, Hillary was a staff attorney for the Children’s Defense Fund in Cambridge, Massachusetts. While Bill was governor, Hillary chaired the Arkansas Educational Standards Committee, co-founded the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, and served on the boards of the Arkansas Children’s Hospital, Legal Services, and the Children’s Defense Fund.

      While Bill was president, she ran health care reform and did a ton of work for disadvantaged children, including CHIP, and against violence against women, and with USAID. She also did a lot of international work on human rights.

      As a senator, she worked on provisions for health services for veterans and first responders, tech for rural communities, economic encouragement for environmentally responsible construction, public school supports, and unemployment benefits.

      According to 538, She had a more liberal voting record than 70% of the DEMOCRATS in the Senate (her voting record was MORE LIBERAL than Obama’s). Ontheissues rates her as a hard-core liberal based on public statements, also more liberal than Obama and AS LIBERAL as Elizabeth Warren.

      You don’t like her on YOUR issues, fine, but she is liberal, she is progressive, and her entire career exemplifies that.

      Jill Stein seems to be a well intentioned person, but her primary political accomplishment seems to be as a losing candidate for a variety of offices and she essentially has a one issue focus.

    • Marceline

      Every time I think the Berniacs are working their way through the five stages, you guys go right back to denial and start all over again.

    • Kathleen Warnock

      The mansplaining is strong with this one.

      • urgelt

        It is not about Hillary’s gender. It’s about her corruption.

        Give me Elizabeth Warren, I’m a happy camper. I trust her. She’s an actual progressive. Hillary isn’t.

    • Lizzietish81

      tl;dr Stop voting with your vagina Rebecca!

  • lroom

    This is some dangerous irresponsible shit. Salon can fuck right the hell off.

  • Zeeba Neighba

    Thank you, Rebecca. From now on, I will simply write “Dear Salon, set your dick on fire and eat it” when commenting on their articles. You’ve saved me lot of time. Bless you.

  • Ben Trumble

    If only they had a big stack of Harriet Tubmans, Salon could hire Andrew Sullivan to complete itself as the single most self righteous cafe on the interwebs.

    • jmhm

      No, in their ongoing crusade to recreate themselves as Salon, NY Magazine has hired him to cover Hillary’s vaginal dentition for the general.

    • nmmagyar

      Is Greenwald still there? Maybe some Marcotte. Smug Singularity.

      • I still remember when Marcotte wrote a bizarre piece about Alanis Morrissette’s music being anti-feminist. I had to check to make sure I wasn’t having a stroke-induced hallucination.

        • nmmagyar

          Ironic, don’t ya’ think, that someone could view the lyrics of You Oughta Know as an anthem to the joys of shutting your mouth and making sammiches as a good little woman should do.

  • JMP

    “Eric Garland, is one of the judges responsible for the disastrous SpeechNow.org v. FEC ruling which gave us Super PACs, and upheld Citizens United.”

    Is he that stupid, or being willfully ignorant? Of course he voted to uphold Citizens United – he had to. Lower courts must follow Supreme Court precedents, they are not allowed to vote to overrule the Supreme Court which is, you know Supreme. Grr argh go fuck yourself remember 2000 asshole.

    • rebecca

      Jesus I didn’t even notice that. Thank you and updated.

    • SullivanSt

      I think even willfully ignorant is too generous.

      He’s being deceitful.

    • alpacapunchbowl

      Well, since he doesn’t seem to realize Garland’s first name is Merrick, I’m guessing the concept of stare decisis is above his pay grade.

      • Zippy W Pinhead

        I blame Garland Jefferys

        • alpacapunchbowl

          I blame Judy Garland

          • Gleem-McShinez

            Are you Benedict Arnold Cumberbatches deserting the War On Christmas?!

            YOU WILL BLAME CHRISTMAS GARLAND RIGHT NOW OR I WILL SEND YOU TO THE CAGANER TRENCHES, SOLDIER!

          • alpacapunchbowl

            Aw, crap.

        • SeeTrain65
    • Serai 1

      Who is Eric Garland?

  • Boscoe

    “The best way to discredit both of these groups is to let them fail on their own.”

    Right! Hey everyone, elect Trump because when he burns down the world it’ll make the GOP look *REALLY* terrible! Did I mention I smear feces on my face and my middle name is “Derp”? LOGIC IS HARD!

  • DemmeFatale

    I’m not afraid of Drumpf.
    I just want to end him with votes (actual votes)!

  • Jenny

    Deeeeeerp! It’s a good thing I’m so privileged and nothing to worry about!!!

    Oh wait. That’s not me at all. Fuck you Salon. Fuck You.

  • malsperanza

    And we can expect a fair number of the Bernie or Bust kids to vote for him. Thanks, Sanders! Nope, not a spoiler at all no siree.

    • Shibusa

      And 99% of the Bernie or Bust kids had never heard of Bernie Sanders a year ago.

      • Marceline

        This! I told one that I’d been a fan of Bernie’s since his filibuster and he’s ruined all that support. The response?

        “That was Rand Paul that filibustered, not Bernie.”

        I wanted to punch him in the throat.

        • nmmagyar

          We might have pitched in to your legal fund

  • theblackdog

    This is as bad as one of the people I know on Facebook who is currently saying he voted for Nader in 2000 because he had to “vote with his conscience” and that Hillary needs to convince him to vote for her over him just voting for a third party again.

    • JMP

      Wait, he’s talking about voting for Nader in 2000, giving us the George W. Bush presidency, as if that was OK? Without an apology and shame for it? How the fuck can anyone who voted Nader in 2000 have the gall to suggest that was at all justified?!

      • theblackdog

        Yeah, he said he realizes it sucked under Bush, but he just couldn’t vote for Gore back then because Gore wasn’t good enough for his personal values. Now he’s saying he will not be bullied into voting for Hillary because things would be so much worse under Trump and that if she’s not good enough for him, he’ll vote Green.

        • Balmy Balmer

          Pass this on to him: Fucking moron!

        • Zippy W Pinhead

          so what about those thousands of dead US soldiers and tens of thousands of dead Iraqis? So what about the massive pain of Katrina and the far more massive pain of the financial meltdown? At least he has his purity merit badge and that’s all that counts.

          • Villago Delenda Est

            Hundreds of thousands. Well, what are hundreds of thousands of human lives compared to this self absorbed fucktard’s conscience?

          • Playonwords

            Not their fault – They tried to get a green president but Kermit was just not able to do anything

    • Egret1

      What conscience?

  • btwbfdimho

    Under Trump rule, we the people will have to learn to address the POTUS with the style deployed by JS Bach on this letter of Musical-Offering dedication to His Highest Majesty.
    OMHG, so much adulating BS, we the people lucky are us, JS Bach preferred to write music instead of speeches.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfT1oO-uhBg

  • S M

    Thank God…

    The Salon anti-Hillary madness has gone too far.

  • Joe

    NO ! Just fucking NO !

  • Serolf Divad

    And the number one reason to vote for Donald Trump: to get back at my mom and dad for being such assholes when they flushed my bag of weed down the toilet!

    • Kavefish

      haha!

  • Shibusa

    There are, in fact, three words more jarring to liberals than “President Donald Trump.”

    President. Ted. Cruz.

    • Owsla

      President Paul Ryan.

      • nmmagyar

        The number of people begging him to be their white knight is terrifying

        • Zippy W Pinhead

          who else do the have? Newt? Mitt?

          • nmmagyar

            You’re right, they have no back bench

          • Grizz1y

            Just more evidence of the incredible derp bench the GOP had this year.

  • SadDemInTex

    I’m still angry at Nader. A total self righteous douche.

    • Scopedog

      And he’s still a self-righteous douche!

      • Villago Delenda Est

        The sad thing is he learned nothing from 2000. Not a damn thing.

    • Lizzietish81

      So I had a history professor in college, a flamingly gay elderly southern gentleman Republican, who claimed that Nader was one of his roommates at Stanford, and is completely asexual.

      • SadDemInTex

        Interesting. I don’t know what that really says about someone except that they aren’t distracted by sexual needs which leaves lots of time to obsess about other stuff.

        • Lizzietish81

          We just assumed Nader wasn’t gay

          • SadDemInTex

            Doesn’t asexual mean he has no interest in having sex with another person? From what I understand a true asexual person doesn’t even masturbate.

          • Lizzietish81

            sorry, to clarify, we assumed he said Nader was asexual because he wouldn’t sleep with him.

  • Zippy W Pinhead

    Dear Salon, you are dumb and your anti Hillary screeds are dumb too.

    Delete your account…

  • deanbooth

    I read the headlines on Salon (until their refreshing the page interrupts) and sometimes the posts (though usually only the first half displays), and I’ve almost gotten used to the text sliding up and down as ads appear and disappear. This year, though, their content has gotten even more dreadful than their web design. Making it difficult to read horrible content is not such a bad thing, I guess.

  • Marceline

    Bernie and Trump have basically become the pied pipers for every clueless arrogant prat with access to a laptop.

    • Kavefish

      It makes me miss the days when all they could do was yell at the TV.

  • Janicen

    …and number 5: Oligarchs are fun!

  • beavertank

    Jesus christ, Salon. Get your shit together.

    • Judas Peckerwood

      You do realize that you’re talking about the media entity that employs Camille Paglia, right?

      • Playonwords

        But at least they allow women to touch the heart of feminits power (mis-spelling intentional)

      • beavertank

        Hey, we all have our disgusting vices we like to indulge in every now and then. She just happens to be Salon’s.

  • Metadude

    It also has the annoying Salon-y random use of commas and other evidence that they have no copyeditors.

  • thewitchqueen74

    OT maybe? But I saw this on Facebook and I just…WTF…

    • Zippy W Pinhead

      fucking idiots

      • thewitchqueen74

        Agreed. It’s like they’re threatening to hold their breath until they turn blue.

        • Zippy W Pinhead

          Ironically, there’s nothing blue about their childish tantrum

    • Marceline

      I like how it’s to “all Democrats who LOVE Bernie.” Not support or believe in but LOVE. These idiots make the Beyhive look downright apathetic.

    • Scopedog

      Oh, f*@! me….

    • Jenny

      That’s the ugliest piece of propaganda I’ve ever seen. At least put a patriotic picture in the background.

    • Egret1

      I think that the person who came up with that is already on a vacation with reality.

    • jmk

      All it lacks is the signature… “Love, Reince Priebus and Friends.”

    • sdk

      Erm… How would party officials know that millions of Sanders’ supporters were “vacationing” from the party until after the convention?

      • thewitchqueen74

        My thoughts exactly.

    • Kavefish

      It seems this could be the sort of thing that backfires and inspires a resounding “fuck you” at the convention and then they get nuthin’. No bargain, and no chips.

    • phoenix00
  • Hopefully it doesn’t need to be said, but as someone who isn’t on the Hillary train because I’m not convinced she’s truly moved to the left on domestic issues (i.e. her sudden newfound opposition to TPP when running against Sanders) and I dislike her foreign policy actions (i.e. Honduras) and I’m uncomfortable with her past on LGBT issues, this asshat does not speak for me.

    Trump being the lesser evil to Ted Cruz, now that I can buy…

    • uniquename72

      Don’t forget HRC’s commitment to total, permanent war and her pandering to the prison industrial complex.

      The fact is, we KNOW what Hillary will do once in office: bomb everyplace with brown people and maintain the (horrific) status quo domestically. We have no idea at all what Trump will do.

      Not that I’ll be voting for either of them.

      • Playonwords

        Then say hello to your Donald Trump Presidency. A presidency where people wanting favour have to go to an autocratic moron (much like yourself).

        The Donald will let the GOP reduce taxes on the wealthiest and abolish what few minimum wage laws there are.

        He will allow the flawed Obamacare system to wither in a return to the deadly pre-Obama healthcare system.

        He will support the abolition of federal minimum wage standards.

        He will allow a return to the use of cluster bombs and chemical weapons as “cheaper” methods of intervention.

        He will allow the few limitations on fossil fuel use to lapse.

        He will allow the Bureau of Land Management to die.

        He will allow environmental protections to go unenforced.

        He will stuff the Supreme Court with regressive and fascist judges.

        And this is supposed to be better than having Hillary in office?

        Essentially you are willing to let the USA die because you hate a particular woman. Well fuck off and die

        • Kathleen Warnock

          Since you definitely KNOW what is happening in the future, Unique, can you give me the Powerball numbers?

          • Playonwords

            I know what he has declared and supported and what the Republicans in Congress declare and support.

            Are you trying to claim Turnip is just a Secret Socialist Squirrel?

            Bless!

      • Villago Delenda Est

        You are a fool. A damned fool.

      • Hardly Ideal

        If you can’t vote for someone you like, at least vote against someone you don’t. Voting still matters and doing otherwise has consequences.

        It’s not like boycotting the vote will work. “Yeah, that’ll show ’em,” as despicable people who would’ve otherwise lost skate into undeserved power.

      • jmk

        Yo, cupcake… hate to break it to you, but memes you read on Facebook don’t really count as candidate research.

        There is NO instance in which Clinton demonstrated either a “commitment to total, permanent war” or “pandering to the prison industrial complex.”

        So… buhbye, twit.

  • OneYieldRegular

    Dear Mr. Bragman:

    Donald Trump is a fascist. Period. Stop. End.

  • Christopher Smith

    A brilliant evisceration of another moronic Salon exercise in click-whoring.

    • OhioBrian

      That Red Light is on all too often it seems these days.

  • Lady Willpower

    Curse you, Eric Garland!

    • alpacapunchbowl

      If only I could upfist this to infinity. Sweet baby jeebus, the derp runs deep.

      • Lady Willpower

        It’s not like there’s even an autocorrect issue! This guy literally just doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

  • Meanie-meanie, tickle a person

    the narrative that would emerge from a Clinton presidency would be […] The parties pick the candidates

    Jesus, put the crystal ball away, dude, we haven’t had a contested convention yet. This is possibly known as “begging the hidden question”…

    • JMP

      But all the liberals I know prefer Sanders – the fact that Clinton keeps getting more votes can’t possibly mean that more Democrats want her to be the nominee!

  • Bathazar Xavier

    when i sit down to watch a movie, i’m fine with the fact that i have to suspend my disbelief for a couple of hours, because it’s a movie. when it’s my duty to vote for the most powerful person in the world, i simply refuse to do so. and this is why i can’t have a serious discussion with most bernie-ites. if you close your eyes and listen, you almost can’t tell them from a tea-partier, most especially because they parrot almost every single republican talking point that has been used against hillary for the last 25 years. then, when i tell them that, almost to a person they say, “well maybe it’s because it’s true.” really. this from the same party that brought us willie horton, the welfare queen and our muslim president. and they wonder why so many long-time democrats and progressives look at them sideways. well that and them being late to the party (pun intended) and deciding that they are the purity police, how many times have you heard, “hillary is a republican disguised as a democrat”? never heard it until the nouveau-progressives arrived on the scene. and now suddenly there’s a “movement”, like the whole, minority/gender/gender-identity equality thing just started the day before they registered to vote. that they are willing to actively or passively allow someone to be elected that will reverse all the gains made over the last 7 years tells me more about them than anything. they’ve got no skin in the game (pun intended). their privilege will allow them to ride through whatever would happen in a trump presidency, and their sanctimony will remain intact. frankly, i want to hear from them as much as i want to hear from any republican candidate. here endeth my rant.

    • artem1s

      if you close your eyes and listen, you almost can’t tell them from a tea-partier

      They’ve always sounded suspiciously like Paultards to me. Just insert ‘flat tax’ over ‘minimum wage’ and ‘legal pot’ over ‘free tuition’. They even want to overturn ACA and let the states take over the Unicorn Single Payer Pony Healthcare AND the land grant schools. Like letting GOP state governors take control of liberal programming is always the best way to see everyone have access to services! This has never been a revolution, it’s just a sad sad retooling of Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich supporters.

      • jmk

        This is my impression also too. They showed up in Bernie’s ranks just as “Doctor” Randy crashed out of the race, and then suddenly, the animosity coming from Bernie supporters was cranked up to 11.

      • Whale Chowder

        Interesting, because I’ve come to the conclusion that Bernie himself is sort of superior and holier-than-thou in the same way Libertarians are.

        His supporters don’t appear to be any better.

      • Bathazar Xavier

        or even naderaters… but the tea-party connection is real. they distrust more than they embrace. they really do have some sort of purity test that only they have the answers to (because the answers are continually changing). online i challenge them to tell me who they voted for in the most recent local or state election. not. one. single. answer.

        the bernie-ite equivalent of “black helicopters” is “wall street” and “big banks”. these phantom blanket entities that are shapeless and formless thus you don’t have to truly define what you’re really mad at. this makes it easy to paint, with as broad a brush as possible, anyone who opposes you as being with “them”. and there is where my problem lies. i HATE (pardon the all caps) “them-ism”. that allows you to more easily gin up an enemy that morphs to whatever you need it to be at the moment. look at trump’s campaign on the right and bernie’s to the left. they threw the spaghetti at the wall, and they put sauce on what stuck. but some folks actually read, pay attention, and, most importantly, remember.

      • King of America

        That is because many of the Bernie Bros (as opposed to normal Sanders supporters) actually WERE Paultards.

      • Serai 1

        It’s especially infuriating how they completely ignore the years Hillary spent working FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE GODDAMIT. It was her big issue during Bill’s first term, and she fought tooth and nail for it. But these idiots can’t be bothered to the actual history of the candidates. Memes are their idea of political profundity.

  • OrdinaryJoe

    The Berniebro mantra; It’s cool to be a fool.

  • Justno

    Hey! Let’s all vote for the dumb guy youse guys! That will totally work!

  • Hemp Dogbane

    It sounds like a Hillary administration will feature the same blend of competence/incompetence we’ve been subjected to the past 8 years. This is why people are at last missing W.

    • Bathazar Xavier

      “people” being you and who else? oh wait…you were kidding…but april fool’s day was 28 days ago…

    • Bemused

      Because they want total incompetence and/or possibly war crimes?

    • Gwen Elaine Dallas

      That’s right! Americans want straight up incompetence, none of the filler!

    • JMP

      Wait, after 8 years of very competent and ethical leadership, people are missing one of the most incompetent and corrupt Presidential administrations America has ever had? The one that had the absolute worst, most disastrous foreign policy in American history, that invaded Afghanistan then quickly gave up on it while allowing Osama bin Laen to get away to invade Iraq just to deal with the President’s daddy issues, and which turned the US into an international pariah? The one which to shred the Constitution and order warrantless domestic spying on Americans and order fucking torture? The administration that pursued deregulation that allowed the financial industry to cause the worst economic crisis since the great depression, all while stealing money from the government to give away to the rich, leaving the federal government still severely underfunded? The President who, faced with a giant hurricane heading straight for New Orleans, did absolutely nothing but actually played guitar while he let the city drown, because it was only poor black people after all, and George Bush in fact does not care about black people? People are missing that fucking failure? No.

      After the very good leadership of Obama, who is the best President of my lifetime by far (and I’m forty years old), people are missing the complete and utter disaster of W? Really? REALLY?!?! Just how stupid must someone be to actually say that?

      • Kavefish

        upvote #2, upvote #3, upvote #4,

        ….

        upvote #98, upvote #99, upvote #100

    • gingerland62

      Who are these proverbial “people” you speak of…?

    • Villago Delenda Est

      Sorry, but the deserting coward’s head [redacted in observance of the Commenting Rules for Radicals]

      • JMP

        We can still wish W can spend the rest of his life where he belongs, in prison for his war crimes.

    • Playonwords

      Obama achievements

      Ended the Great Recession,
      Health care reform,
      Wall Street reform,
      Student loan reform,
      “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” repeal,
      New START,
      The Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act,
      The biggest overhaul of food-safety laws in 70 years,
      New regulation of the credit card industry,
      New regulation of the tobacco industry,
      A national service bill,
      Expanded stem-cell research,
      The Hate Crimes Prevention Act,
      Net neutrality,
      The land-protection act,
      Health care for 9/11 rescue workers,
      The confirmation of two Supreme Court justices.
      The end of the Cuban embargo
      The Iran deal
      Ended the Iraq war
      Increased support for veterans
      Allowed the EPA to regulate coal plant emissions
      Passed the Fair Sentencing Act
      Invested in renewable energy sources

      Oh, and he killed Osama bin Laden when Shrub had said in 2006 that “Bin Laden was just “one person, I really just don’t spend that much time on“

    • Hardly Ideal

      I’d rather have a milquetoast semi-competent than a con man who’d set everything on fire if he thinks it’d make a buck.

      And I’m missing Bush because he seemed reasonable and restrained next to the gaggle of freaks we’ve endured for the last 8 years.

    • SeeTrain65

      Yeah, true ignorance can never go unappreciated.

  • Joel Finkelstein

    I honestly have no idea how you chose when, and when not, to put in “[sic].”

  • Meanie-meanie, tickle a person

    TPM:
    Trump Camp To Target Sanders Voters Who Won’t Back Clinton

    With a little help from their friends at Salon,no doubt…

  • Bemused

    Did he somehow manage to miss the fact that Trump sits on the Board of the Dark Money System? Why would he get rid of it? He uses it himself to try to buy candidates. It’s like with his clothing line, he says he’s against shipping jobs overseas, while having his own clothing line manufactured overseas. He has proved over an over again that if something benefits him, he’ll use it, regardless of ethics, morality, or legally gray.

    • Villago Delenda Est

      Please, do not upset the sparkle ponies with those annoying facts.

    • Paperless Tiger

      Trump has already been convicted of money-laundering once. He may simply be a WASP front-man for the ethnic Mafia. He has used their lawyers. He may simply be trying to take the Mafia money-laundering operation national. Meanwhile, the ‘dark money system’ is essentially a government protected money-laundering scheme already. Did they tip their hand?

    • UnsaltedSinner

      Money in politics is only a problem when it’s channeled through a super PAC, silly!

  • OhioBrian

    THANK YOU!!!

  • Percy Bitch Shelley
  • Bartlet4Gallifrey
  • Me not sure

    Bragman is what one gets when pretzels are allowed to breed.

    • Zippy W Pinhead

      I blame W for not properly killing that one before it reached puberty

      • Me not sure

        Death match.

  • emteem

    I declare: It is just #logic, the “math science of words.” the greatest sentence ever written!

    It done has been declared!

  • B. Flatt

    So much yapping for naught. This is all moot once we’ve become embroiled in our next military conflict. And we will.

  • Bigby

    Yeah, a Trump Preznitsy + GOP House + GOP Senate + GOP majority on SCOTUS + more gerrymandering + more BS Rethug redistricting. What could fucking POSSIBLY go wrong? It’s not like there’s a recent PRECEDENT or anything. Good thing you’re a Millenial, Bragman, you can fucking gear up and hop to…Iran, with the first wave.

    Trump will do *exactly* what his party-controlling government will want him to do. Name one fucking time Dubya deviated from The Plan? Christ this little shit makes me stabby. With votes.

  • I know someone will just come along and explain that I’m too young/old/naive/stupid/female to understand the pure evil that is Hillary Clinton, but I’m going to say it anyway: the Hillary hate is WAY out of hand. If you are a Democrat/liberal/progressive/sane human being and you find yourself advocating for a Trump presidency over a Hillary presidency, you have badly lost perspective, and you need to go somewhere quiet and reflect on things until you come to your senses, or until the rest of us are done crushing Trump’s dreams of a gold-plated White House.

    • artem1s

      If you are advocating for Drumpf in any way you cannot call yourself a Democrat/liberal/progressive/sane human being. period. outside of that, all the upfists!

    • Sakonyachen

      Hell, my dad is an “Independent”(embarrassed republican)/conservative/fundie/nut job and he refuses to vote for Trump. He may not vote because he hates Clinton, but he’s still not going to be responsible for Armageddon.

      • Serai 1

        If he doesn’t vote against Trump, he’s still in there being responsible.

    • Kavefish

      No kiddin!

      All this vitriol against someone with just about the best previous job experience you could imagine for the task at hand. It’ll be the first time (in a long time? if ever?) when a candidate comes in so well-prepared she can hit the ground running from day one with no on-the-job training.

      • Serai 1

        Hell, half the people she works with will be greeting her with “Welcome back, Madam President.”

  • Sally Johnson

    Teh Stupid. Both sides do it.

  • JeffWest

    I was wondering what happened to Slate. Now I know it’s the same thing that happened to the Party of Reagan. Premature senility.

    • SullivanSt

      No, the other five-letters-starting-with-S and pointlessly contrarian thing.

  • Bob Lees

    What is it with these losers? They pretend there will be zero consequences in allowing a lunatic like Trump into the White House. I can only imagine the wailing, gnashing of teeth and rending of garments among this crowd if it actually happened. The whining toddler like cries of “It’s not my fault!” would be deafening.

    • roberteye

      Shades of the Nader2000 crowd, caz you know Bush=Gore. And denial continued as Rethugs poured $$ into the Green Party to keep hope alive. After the debacle, I was telling myself well… maybe Bush will moderate it since he squeezed in by Scalia’s fingernails. Yeah that happened.

    • SullivanSt

      They still haven’t shut up about copping the blame for 2000. Except for Becca ;)

  • Kathleen Warnock

    Also, “Eric” Garland and the United Kingdon? They clearly lost their ability to spell when they lost their principals.

  • Moi

    Stephen King’s book is actually spelled with an S (although he still didn’t spell it right), and it amuses me that this douche canoe looked THAT up, but not Merrick Garland’s actual freaking name.

    • roberteye

      Luckily he didn’t say Supreme Court nominee “Eric Garner”.

  • handyhippie65

    bad as she is, clinton is better than any of the republicans, especially trump. voting for him, to punish her is like shooting yourself in the dick for birth control.

    • Paperless Tiger

      What did she do bad? Use email? Give a speech? Serve as a public servant? Fail to prevent yet another terrorist attack? WTF?

      • Zippy W Pinhead

        She’s definitely more hawkish and more cozy with the establishment than St Bernard is and she was one of the many Senators to vote to give W his little war (kinda sorta). She’s also more into an incremental fix than revolution, all of which makes her HISTORY’S GREATEST MONSTER for those who’ve let themselves be brainwashed by the GOP

        • Villago Delenda Est

          Yet these same people do not acknowledge Ralph Nader’s role in creating the circumstances for the AUMF in the first place…by being a purity troll and giving the deserting coward and the Dark Lord the cover they needed to seize the reins of power.

      • handyhippie65

        she lost me when bill was prez. i may live in the village, but the responsibility of raising your children is yours, not mine. not to mention her policies are republican lite. free trade, military intervention, war on crime, and drugs. just a few of my problems with her.

        • SullivanSt

          Ah so. It’s not her, it’s you.

          • handyhippie65

            as in, i don’t agree with her on these things, yes. but you can say that about anyone’s choice. it’s not them, it is you. she is not my first choice, but if pressed, she will be the only choice.

          • SullivanSt

            So, free trade is actually at the center of what liberalism as a political philosophy embraces. Your disagreement makes you less liberal than her. An attitude of “Your kid is your problem” combined with an embrace of a Republican-pushed mischaracterization of the actual message of It Takes a Village also makes you less liberal than Clinton. She’s nothing like a Republican on drug policy – she argued for diversion programs in her first run for Senate and again in her first run for President, sponsored a bill in ’07 to eliminate the crack/cocaine sentencing imbalance by sentencing crack like powder (you know, long, long before BO signed a much smaller reduction of that imbalance into law), and is now campaigning on a platform that is for medical marijuana and leave-it-to-the-states on recreational.

          • handyhippie65

            free trade is a liberal idea? that’s news to me. the only ones who it helps are corporations. i voted for bill twice, and he voted for NAFTA, and signed the evil crime bill of the 90’s. i never said your kid is a problem, just that it is your problem. i made no children, and am not willing to be responsible for yours. why is that wrong? she is only now for loosening marijuana laws, in response to bernie. i am all about freedom for individual citizens, corporations and other organizations, not so much. i am for anyone wanting to rein them in. personally, i would rather be voting for elizabeth warren. but that is not possible, so i voted for bernie. and i will be voting for clinton, as she will probably be the nominee. doesn’t mean i have to like it.

          • SullivanSt

            Yes, free trade is a liberal idea. Look up what liberalism is.

            I said your attitude was “your kid is your problem” not “a”. It’s still a selfish position, which might be compatible with classical liberalism but not with modern social liberalism. Not even conservatives are absolute in that position – although in some cases their commitment to public education is little more than lip service, they at least pay that lip service. There’s a whole lot more to the social contract than that though. And it doesn’t matter a single bit that you are childless – you benefited personally when you were a child, it’s time to repay that social debt. Even ignoring that, I’ve never gone hungry either, but that doesn’t excuse me the obligation to pay my part towards SNAP.

            Clinton called for an end to Federal dispensary raids as early as 2007, and said we should let states experiment with decriminalization in 2014, so no, those aren’t positions she took in response Bernie at all.

          • handyhippie65

            if that is modern liberalism, then you are right. i am not a liberal. to be honest, i never claimed to be one. i consider myself to be a left leaning moderate. my father was in the UAW for 35 years. i am all for protections for american workers. i really don’t care about foreign workers. free trade eliminates american jobs, and has practically eliminated worker wage growth. to me, that alone is enough to oppose it. i am a self employed carpenter, and haven’t raised my rates in ten years. i own property , and pay taxes to support schools, and other government functions, so i do pay my fair share. the planet is falling apart, and it is the overpopulation of humanity that is the cause. that is the main reason i didn’t reproduce. from my point of view, anything that controls it, is a good thing. i vehemently oppose conservative christians, and their corporate masters. and the enemy of my enemy, is my friend. i vote against them, more than vote for anyone. i liked the things bernie says, and even if only some of what he championed happens, i will be both happy, and amazed. the government has moved so far to the right that the positions he espouses, were in the middle 40 years ago. i remember, i was there.

          • SullivanSt

            The labor movement is rooted in socialism rather than liberalism, but in the absence of a socialist movement in the US it has attached itself instead to liberals (probably more so than the other way around). Liberal philosophy doesn’t give a clear easy answer on labor organization- obviously freedom of association comes into play but that is also how “right to work for less” advocates frame their arguments (and before them the asshats that wrote/joined the Lochner opinion) – but on the evidence the greater good in the American circumstance was clearly better served when union penetration was far greater than it is today so liberals should support labor goals.

            The association between liberalism and free trade isn’t a modern thing, it’s been there ever since liberalism crossed from pure philosophy into a political and economic framework. If anything, modern liberalism is less wedded to it than in the past, as the realization is setting in that as Paul Krugman has pointed out, while he models still say that freer trade increases total wealth, under current policy it does so by creating a small number of really massive winners and a large number of losers; if liberals were able to set the policies of their choice the winnings would be redistributed to the losers and everyone would be better off, but that can’t happen with the Republican Party as it exists today.

            It’s kind of a shame to not care about foreign workers – we used to sell them a lot of stuff before Reaganism created a permanent (at least so far) promotion of the wealth of the rich over the wellbeing of the many; in the meantime since 1990 the global number of people living in extreme poverty has decreased by over 1 billion (yes, with a b), and NAFTA, CAFTA etc have been important drivers. Ultimately that global rising tide will lift American-born boats – it creates more potential customers and reduces the incentive for foreign workers to move here. Also people who don’t have to worry about where they will get drinking water, let alone their next meal, are more likely to demand safe working conditions for themselves – and those demands are more likely to be met when their isn’t a latent pool of even more desperate souls.

          • handyhippie65

            the global economy has risen, as the american economy has fallen. i am an american citizen, not a global citizen. one of the few things trump says i agree with is that our government should do for it’s citizens over any others. though i want it to be for all of it’s citizens, not just the rich. the rest of the planet comes second. am i willing to get paid less to have a chinese, or indian worker get paid more? no fucking way! and you can run your piehole for ten thousand years, and i will never change my mind. free trade has just made everyone equally poor. at this point in time, i build animal cages. i can’t compete with products from china made by workers getting 20 dollars a week. i need to earn more than that to live here. tariffs on foreign made goods make them cost more, and protected my job. i say bring them back, and imprison those who eliminated them as traitors to our country.

          • SullivanSt

            So much nope.

            First, this is going to have to end soon because I cannot and will not accept that something so completely arbitrary as which side of a line on a map one happened to be born has a meaningful bearing on something so fundamental as how much of a right to eat one has.

            Second, the American economy has not fallen. US Real GDP is about 8 times what it was in 1950 and about 10% greater today than its pre-Great Recession peak.

            Third, trade liberalization has “done for the people” – while everyone knows about the letter agencies, people tend to forget about free trade’s central place in the New Deal, with the foundation of the ExIm bank and the Reciprocal Trade Agreements Act of 1934, reversing the catastrophic damage that Smoot-Hawley’s protectionism had wreaked under Hoover. The growth of the American middle class took off after trade was freed.

            The difference between free trade under FDR and since Reagan has been tax policy, and more widely the attitude towards redistribution. As I mentioned before, Paul Krugman’s pointed out that while trade liberalization increases the economy overall it does create losers as well as winners; with an appropriate redistributive policy to offset the losses everyone wins.

            The flipside of this, though, is that the losers have already lost. Reverting to protectionism won’t bring those jobs back, it will only strip the winners of their winnings. It’s Pareto pessimal: everybody loses. Aside from cheap labor, a major part of why China has come to dominate electronics production is that they have plentiful rare earth production (95% of global production); we don’t (we have reserves, but most are undeveloped, largely because they’re difficult to access being in the middle of the Rockies and will never produce at a high rate). If we go protectionist, and they retaliate with a rare earth embargo, we simply won’t be able to replace that production, period. You’ll wipe out Apple, and there’ll be no new jobs to replace the ones that would cost. Even if there weren’t a raw resources problem, there’s a massive lead-time problem, we just don’t have the factories and they don’t appear overnight or for free. Large numbers of companies would fold before replacement production could come online.

            Then there’s another point that Krugman’s made – while there is a net economic gain from free trade, that’s never actually been the primary motivation for our trade deals. Foreign policy has been the driver. Trade has made the world safer, as a country whose markets are dependent on trade has far more to lose by going to war. It should be obvious to anyone paying any attention at all that China has expansionary territorial ambitions, and it’s equally obvious that the threat of losing access to US markets is a major check on that desire. Denying them that access anyway removes a tremendous incentive keeping them contained. Add in how much stronger our alliances have been made through trade, and it becomes clear that you wouldn’t just make America poorer by going protectionist, you’d also make us weaker and the world, including the US, a more dangerous place.

          • SullivanSt

            Also: this.

            Ask Paul Krugman or Brad DeLong about it sometime. Or read some John Maynard Keynes.

        • Playonwords

          Oh, go and knit some organic, sugar-free muesli, ffs.

          Look, you live in the “real” world, not a world of Platonic ideals. Yes, some politicians fall short of your supposedly high standards but others are will actively harm you. Letting type 2 win because of “principles” is, quite metaphorically, cutting off your nose to spite your face.

          • handyhippie65

            what the fuck are you talking about? organic is a scam, sugar is one of my main food groups, and i don’t even know what muesil is, and probably wouldn’t eat it on a dare. how am i letting anyone “win”? i said if she is the nominee, i would vote for her. she is the lesser of the many evils to choose from, but i won’t cheer about it. i’ve been voting since the 80’s. mostly it has been for the lesser of two evils. this cycle will be no different.

          • Playonwords

            So you read insults but not body copy … got ya

          • handyhippie65

            i read what you said. and i agree that to not vote would be letting trump win. did you even read what i wrote? i said i would vote for clinton if she is the nominee, what more do you want?

      • JMP

        She won’t give me a pony. Bernie would give me a pony.

    • roberteye

      Dan Savage: “the lesser of two evils is less evil.” Gonna embroider that on a pillow or something.

      • Zippy W Pinhead

        Use the one Hillz smothered Scalia with

  • UnsaltedSinner

    Somewhere, Joan Walsh just opened her third bottle of wine.

  • JK3

    Sanders’ most rabid supporters (surrogates and spouse, we all saw what you did, Jane) are not going to be satisfied until they tank his post-primary influence just like they did with his primary outreach after New Hampshire.

    And let’s not forget that Donald Trump was promising to consult the Heritage Foundation and the Senate Republicans on all of his Supreme Court nominees. At least the supremacy clause will make life just as terrible for these idiots in their liberal bastians, as it will for everyone else.

  • susanelizabeth

    Oh my God,that rant was spectacular. Salon can bite me.

  • iateaynrand

    Sorry, he’s not wrong about 2020. A HRC win this year all but gaurantees a republican landslide in the midterms 2 years laters. They’ll control more state legislatures and will gerrymander their hearts out like never before. The democrats won’t be able to retake the House for another 50 years.

    Also, Trump is to the left of HRC on several issues, including healthcare and endless war. And come on, we all know he doesn’t give a damn about abortion or gay rights. We should be glad the republicans have somehow fooled themselves into nominating someone who is completely agnostic on those issues.

    I’m certainly not voting for him, btw. But I understand the logic behind a progressive deciding to.

    • agio

      I love how you parade speculation about what could happen 4 years from now as facts. It’s cute.

      • iateaynrand

        2 years from now. The party in the white house loses seats in midterms, almost always.

        • Zippy W Pinhead

          So let’s give them the oval office now?

        • SullivanSt

          Newsflash: The House does not draw districts. Now please crawl back under your rock, you’re uninteresting.

          • iateaynrand

            I know the House doesn’t draw districts, smartass. Which is why I never said anything about the House.

          • SullivanSt

            The midterm slump effect applies to Congress, not to state legislatures (many of which don’t vote on even years anyway).

        • Villago Delenda Est

          Almost always. Almost always.

          Who’s to say that 2018 won’t be an exception? Or that all that will happen in 2018 is that the existing Dem majority won in 2016 is dented a bit, but Nancy Smash still has the gavel?

          Deal with the here and now, not with a future that the magic 8 ball proclaims to be “hazy.”

          • JMP

            Not to mention that deciding the throw the Presidential election over the next midterms is one stupidest ideas I’ve ever heard. Especially when we know there’s one Supreme Court appointment to be made by the next President.

            W’s second term was worth it for taking Congress in 2006! Said no one ever.

          • SullivanSt

            Of course the thesis is profoundly misguided. The reason for the midterm slump is more that successful Presidential candidates have coattails that their parties do less well without in off-year elections.

            In other words there’s no reason to expect that the party in the White House does worse in the midterm than they would have had they lost, rather than that they had done better in the quadrennial.

          • Lily412

            Yup. Correlation is not causation.

        • agio

          That is a historical pattern, not a fact.

        • BeverlyCrusher’sWig

          This is up to you and me and everyone else. We have to show up at every election and fight for the things we believe in at every level of government. Like everyone here said there is a pattern of losing seats but we shouldn’t assume that’s a given for the future. All of the causes cared about can only change if we continue fighting for them. The presidency is just one part. The only guarantee is that we lose if we don’t at least try.

    • Playonwords

      Lo-gic … I don’t think you understand what that word means.

      Logic is not being used, it is just hatred of Hillary Clinton.

    • JK3

      Trump has stated that he will delegate supreme court appointments to the Heritage foundation and Jim Demint. That negates any agnosticism that he has over social issues.

      http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2016/03/22/3762275/trump-says-he-will-delegate-supreme-court-appointments-to-the-heritage-foundation/

    • Zippy W Pinhead

      Also, Trump is to the left of HRC on several issues, including healthcare and endless war.

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Citation fucking needed…

      Drumpf to left of Hillary on healthcare??? HAHAHAHAHA [[falls out of seat, blinded by tears of mirth]] HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

      Drumpf, the guy waving the nuclear arsenal around like he waves his tiny dick around and wants to pick fights with every Muslin country on the planet and start trade wars with everyone else is to the left Hillary???? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! [[falls out of chair yet again laughing hysterically]]

      Hillary wants endless wars???? Are you fucking high? Are you mainlining the GOP kool aid?? Seriously dude, WTF doesn’t begin to cover this steaming pile of horse manure

      • Kavefish

        :::quickly orders Zippy a beanbag chair so he can continue this excellent rant:::

    • SullivanSt

      Trump is to the left of HRC on … endless war.

      Good fucking grief are you so profoundly stupid you cannot understand the meaning of even the simplest words, or so profoundly fucking ignorant you have yet to listen to a single goddamned word out of Trump’s mouth?

      Or is it option three, you’re a big fat liar?

      Because holy shit that’s diametrically opposite to anything that’s ever been true.

      • iateaynrand

        Geez wtf is your problem? Good grief, I’m voting for HRC and even have a damn lawn sign on my front lawn, because the bf convinced me to put one up after Sanders lost our primary.

        I was just playing devil’s advocate, if anything. Good luck convincing Sanders supporters to not stay home or vote for Trunp with that attitude.

        • Zippy W Pinhead

          The vast majority of Sanders supporters (including the many here making fun of you) don’t need “convincing” because they are not A IDIOT. The handful of petulant Bernbrats threatening to stay home or vote for Trump are beyond being reasoned with.

        • SullivanSt

          Right because saying HRC’s more of a warmonger than a guy who brags about how he’ll make the military torture the hell out of everyone by telling them to, and talks idly about glassifying the mid-East because brown people, is really going to make lefties view her more favorably.

    • JMP

      Oh, I understand the “logic” behind any so-called progressive who votes for Trump over Clinton, or even claims they can understand the “logic” behind it; it’s “Ew, Clinton is a GIRL and girls have Cooties I can’t vote for a girl!”

    • sohrob

      She made no dent in Bragman’s argument.I feel like if someone who hadn’t read the Bragman piece before reading her piece, they would actually be swung to his side by the time they finished reading it. lol

      • artem1s

        ya know if you’re gonna troll at least change up your arguments once in awhile. It will free up your copy and paste hand for fapping as well, so bonus!

        • sohrob

          Oh it’s trolling if it doesn’t nod in agreement? lolz. Whatever. Speaking of trolling, did you hear how HRC paid $1M to have online trolls smear Bernie? One of them even used kiddie porn to shut down a Sanders site. What a lowlife she’s proven to be. Some progressive.

          • Playonwords

            No, trolling is a silly little boy who probably isn’t old enough to vote trying to argue with those who are by using copy pasta

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            BULLSHIT, Bernbrat. Her campaign hired a digital and social media team, just like Sanders did. Then some numbnuts from 4chan decided to fuck with the the true believer echo chamber FB groups for lulz and you assholes all decided to blame her for it

          • Jenny

            1 million dollars?!? And here I’ve been doing it for free!

          • Jesse James

            Whooooahahhhhahahahahahah there high blood pressure. Seetle down boy. Here’s an apple. No need to rise on your haunches and charge into battle like that. But I will say I am sad there Zirtac. That was almost an adult rebuttle, but it wasn’t given to meeeeeeeeeee. I thought I was a cup cake tooooooooooooo.
            I’m not really whining. Cause if I was, I would be cussin and swearing, and calling people cup cake and snow flake like something outta a bad 80s action flick. Which is where I think you got your schoolin from pardner.

          • Playonwords

            Ah, a genuine dickhead. Do you know how rare your kind are?

            Oh, and you should quiet down before you suffer an aneurysm.

          • jmk

            No, cupcake. It’s trolling if you keep posting the same stupidity over and over again because you can’t imagine that other people don’t find you as clever as you find yourself.

          • Lara

            It’s trolling if a bunch of people suddenly descend on an article and all disagree with it and talk it down by all saying nearly the same thing. We’ve seen this act a time or hundred before.

      • Zippy W Pinhead

        You can FEEL any way you like, you’re still a clueless snowflake

        • sohrob

          Derrrr when all else fails resort to ad hominem attacks. Weak as fuck. Just like this blog.

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            No, copy and pasting your dumb opinion is what is weak. Make a decent argument and you might get a decent rebuttal- say stupid stuff and get mocked for it. So sorry, little snowflake

          • Jesse James

            Wow! It’s painful to watch you get schooled so badly there Zippy.
            Sohrob made cogent points, based on the information he was provided, and seems to have read both pieces. Rather than listen to what he has to say, you just merely noticed something you disagree with, and proceed to virulent emotional tirade.
            Honestly, Sohrob and the author who the blogger on this site horrifically failed to humiliate in the process of humiliating themselves, have actually convinced me that Trump, being literally a liberal at heart, is actually better than a national security selling war hawk democrat like you obviously like. Honestly, I find the whole packaged assortment of irony like on of Salons typical readership would a box of chocolates! Quite literally overcome by the situation that presents itself to me for the first time in my history.
            I enjoy all of your pain. Cheers. And please, try to harass me. LMAO

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            You’re as fucking dumb as the rest of them- sorry no adult rebuttal for you either. Too bad snowflake, it’s about time you whiners learned how unfair life is.

          • Jesse James

            Hmmmmm, hmmmmmm, these pieces of irony are just soo delicious. Oh, you said something, if that can be called something. Anyways, don’t prevent yourself from going back to irrelevance. I won’t. ;)

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            I don’t give a shit what you do or don’t do, cupcake. But thanks for that patented Bernbrat condescension. We all knew it was coming, you jackasses can’t help yourselves

          • Jesse James

            What? You mean I still don’t get an “adult rebuttal?” Awwwww, and I was soo looking forward to one. Of course, it could be that you don’t have one right there Zippy? Hehehehehehehehe.
            Pssssst, don’t let me get the last word ummmkay? I want you to have a heart attack.

          • Playonwords

            Do you have any points apart from condescension?

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            Hate to disappoint you, cupcake. No last word (at least not yet), the lack of an adult rebuttal is not because I can’t make one and no heart attack- you mistake mocking and scorn for anger.

            That’s strike three, little snowflake

          • Jesse James

            Cupcake, yada, yada, yada, no adult rebuttal for youuuuuuuuuoooohhhhh, blah, bliggity balh, fu snowflake.
            I really don’t believe you have a good rebuttal. Honestly, I think you copied and pasted your statement from out of a far left website for the mentally challenged.

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            I’ll add that to the of things you are painfully wrong about, snowflake

          • Jesse James

            Did I hurt your fweeelins there snow flake? You seem unsettled. Perhaps you should watch some sex in the city, pet your cats, and burn a bra on the porch of your New York City public housing. Perhaps then I can be happy too in having my old, useless, and totally asinine Zippy return to me? Your comments are a wittle short sunshine. Promise to have some fancy feast with fishies in ittt……you know you like that, yes you dooo kitten.

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            Jedus, you can’t even come up with your own snark, how pathetic. Run along, little child, Rebecca was right- the adults are talking here. I am flattered that you tried to copy me though. I’ll be sure to pin it up on the fridge along with all the other children’s things. You tried so hard afterall

          • Playonwords

            In what universe is what you said true?

            Essentially the whole Salon piece is a load of self justifying bullshit that could cause the poor and the oppressed literal harm.

            Why do I take against it? Because it is the same crap that weakened the British Labour Party and allowed Tony B. Liar to take over and move it to the right.

          • Jesse James

            Yeah, yeah, really insightful commentary. Like you, I have literally no clue what you’re talking about. Cheers.

          • Playonwords

            Where am I wrong? A declaration of my wrongness is not proof it is just the idiocy to be expected of a clueless snowflake (that is an ad hom)

          • Jesse James

            Actually, no. It is me being baffled by your general baffledness. I keep waiting for some sort of actual comment. Instead, I get the same old tired bot talking points.

          • Playonwords

            I have expressed myself, all you have done is pretended ignorance (or if it is ignorance then you must be the dumbest fuck since Dubya)

          • Jesse James

            Ooooooooh, dropped the DUBYAAAAAAAA!!!! Oooooooooooooooo! Take thy stake, from my heart. Well done. Did you type that yourself, or did Zippy brainstorm with ya? Hahahahahahahahhahaa

          • Playonwords

            Awww. Liddle person finks zey is clever …

            …Bless!

          • Jesse James

            Do I make the phone sign by my mouth and ear, or do you? Cause being a white guy, and potential trump supporter, ze deucheland accent se r usin ferline makes me hot unda the high collar. U know, cause everyone who disagrees with you must be a Nazi, who believes in God, hates women, murders children, votes for the GOP, and spurns wymin’s studies programs.

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            Glad to see I got under your thin skin, snowflake

          • JMP

            Yeah, he really got schooled there! And we really should take the crap coming from someone who primarily comments at the infamous hideous misogynist hate sites A Voice For Men and Return of Kings seriously.

          • Lara

            If that’s getting schooled then I need to go look up getting schooled, ’cause that wasn’t getting schooled.

          • jmk

            Oh Wally, Wally… no, cupcake. This is reality. The only reason your mom said she liked your “argument” is because she had to.

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            Not to mention the huge epic logical fail- all else didn’t fail, I’ve just grown tired of trying to reason with children

          • Jesse James

            I love how they keep saying cupcake. Like they’re a bunch of old hands on the dock yard of reality schooling us new chimps on how to think and act. Yet no where in their “commentary” do they actually prove their statements. Most likely because they ‘re either brainwashed ideologues who have not received their handlers instructions yet. Or because they are this websites plants, ready to write a sweet nonsensical nothing devoid of any real logic or pith. Or perhaps they really are just stupid. Cheers.

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            Take your circle-jerk elsewhere, it’s unseemly

          • Jesse James

            I would, but I’d give others carpal tunnel.

          • sohrob

            She CAN’T defend herself. If you look at her replies to each of his carefully supported points, she just resorts to attacks and profanity without actually making a valid counter argument. It’s a joke.

          • Jesse James

            Exactly. Ad hominem. Appeal to “others” mythological counter arguments, an repeat tired old insult lines. She must be a feminist. I think she would feel sooo much better if she stopped dying her hair “repel an actual decent husband-hater” blue, trimmed her armpit hair, and proceeded to the next level of her psychological self help ladder by burning her bras outside, and let her kittens watch.

          • JMP

            When the trolls decide to engage in sockpuppetry, they probably should try not to make it quite so obvious. But Jesse James /sohrob must be having fun talking to and upfisting himself.

            (and why are the misogynists so obsessed with blue hair, anyway?)

          • rebecca

            whose blue hair are they talking about anyway? I couldn’t figure out if they meant me or were trying to give examples of what ad hominem was?

            I always did want blue hair. I was going to pencil my eyebrows to match every morning.

          • JMP

            For some reason, the MRAs think all feminists have blue (or sometimes pink) hair, along with lots of tattoos. They also think this somehow is disgusting and therefore “you have blue hair!” is an effective attack. I don’t get it.

            They also assume all feminists are fat, live alone and have a hole bunch of cats, though why a bunch of woman-hating pricks believe in those stereotypes and think they’re somehow effective insults is sadly understandable.

          • rebecca

            well, I really should shave my armpits though. after like a year, shy announced last week that if I shaved my armpits, that would be okay with him. maybe next month …

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            You’ll look great, Marge

          • Blue hair is awesome.

          • JMP

            Not to mention that what other people want to do with their own hair or skin is not anyone else’s fucking business.

          • Playonwords

            No ad hominem is an attack on the person making the argument by reason of their personal failings. You are conflating that with an ad populum argument (an appeal to the populace or the majority) and an appeal to authority.

            You really must be orgasmic

          • Jesse James

            Ooooooh, latin totally makes me orgasmic. Speak it again, and maybe the image of me you have will use it’s Lubriderm in his mother’s basement.
            But I digress. To be honest, two logical fallacies are actually two logical fallacies more than anything you or your comradettes in arms have actually stated. Cheers. ;) And call me! I really need a psychopath to ruin my life.

          • Playonwords

            You used it first, claiming (wrongly, of course) that just naming you a “special snowflake” was an ad hominem attack.

            Of course you are not really a “special snowflake” you are just a vile ignoramus (more Latin for you) unable to organise your thoughts beyond a level of “stop being nasty,” to me and the dumb BernieBros

            Careful nor to get jism on your keyboard or touch screen.

          • Jesse James

            admodum bene

          • MarkM

            It is hardly necessary for anyone here to make you two look like chimps. You’re doing a bang up job of it all by yourselves. Pray continue…I am being entertained.

          • Playonwords

            No, calling you a clueless snowflake is not an ad hom it is an insult. Only if it is said you are wrong because you are a clueless snowflacke would that be an ad hom

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            they’re too dumb to even know that

          • Jesse James

            Yeahhhahahahahahahahaha. I’m totally like totally tubular dummy you know. Like, I can’t do maths, or engrish, or scinecy tuff u know. If only I could agree with your opinion, than I tooo wud be a realllll smaaaaahhhrhrrrt!

          • Playonwords

            silly liddle person, you no like being schooled?

          • Jesse James

            Oooooooh, oooooh, I love school! When does the schooling begin? Cause like I’m totally beyond the 6th grade. But apparently you and everyone who reads here is not. When I see your arguments, and give you a taste of real insults, you all get a hissy fit. I don’t normally do this, but I enjoyed the banter. Well, I did banter. You exemplified butt hurt. Typical reaction from sycophantic female welfare snobs who harbor their hive mind collective group think in to what you feel, at least, is actual snark.
            In reality, Trump is actually gaining votes precisely for being an outsider. One would think that you whiny snobs would get the hint that outside of your bee hive other people may have a reason.
            I love your cold war mentality. As if this election is indicative of anything over the last 30 years of elections. Nothing like this has happened before.
            No one really cares what happens. Because regardless of who wins, we all lose. But childless witches can continue to have government funded sayonce play dates on your schedule.
            I will leave your wittle coven. Feel free to going back to your cauldron, and brew up some more nonsense that will demonstrate you and your comradettes inability to not be crazy. repeating the same things over and over.
            I have to get back to real life, calculus, an engineering. But I’ve had fun helping you enjoy your equality.

          • Playonwords

            You have no insults worthy of consideration. You are just an apoplectic idiot unable to answer criticism. Claiming a knowledge of Latin you misuse it and indulge in argument by trope because you are incapable of mustering real arguments. Nothing you have said would impress the St Ronnie of 1992 let alone any rational human.

            Buh-bye and don’t let the door hit ya where bilateral symmetry split ya

          • HazooToo

            Don’t let the Banhammer hit you in the ass on the way out. We’ll see you on Sunday.

          • MarkM

            Calculus? “an engineering”? An engineering what, exactly? If you meant “calculus and engineering”, I hope I never have the misfortune to drive over any bridges you design.

          • MarkM

            Nothing like a little incoherent meltdown to really drive home one’s point.

            Based on the evidence, I don’t think being “realllll smaaaaahhhrhrrrt” is something you need to concern yourself with….

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            No you wouldn’t

          • Lara

            Zippy’s not wrong, though.

          • doktorzoom

            Ahem. You have no fucking idea what the difference between an insult and an ad hominem argument is, do you?

          • JMP

            And it’s so, so common among conservatives, they always think that both insults and facts that disprove their assertions are ad hominem attacks.

          • MarkM

            Pointing out that you are a silly, childish, clueless little snowflake asshole is simply an observation of fact in your case, and therefore not an ad hominem attack.

          • sohrob

            Lol you just made yourself look dumb with that and further proved my point.

          • JMP

            Hahahahahahaha.

          • MarkM

            Not hardly. As doktorzoom and others have pointed out, you aren’t even aware of the difference between an ad hominem attack and an insult.

      • JMP

        It’s a brand new troll account! Aw, I feel special. And considering how it reflexively misuses “that’s an ad hominem attack!” as a defense the way wingnuts, particularly of the Libertarian idiot variety, do all the time, I kind of suspect it’s one of those fake Bernie-or-busters who’s really just a Trump supporter trying to convince Sanders supporters to stay home.

      • Lara

        And just ’cause you say things a bunch of times that doesn’t make them true.

      • Xenophile23

        How many of you are there? Unless you don’t want to be completely obvious, you might want to refrain from re-using fave phrases such as “”I feel like if”. Same grammar notes too.

      • doktorzoom

        I feel like someone who copypastes their own comments is pretty close to spamming. Thought you should know.

        — Dok Zoom, Yr Friendly Neighborhood Comments Moderator

        • TheBidenator

          I never do that, Dok.

        • TheBidenator

          I never do that, Dok..

      • TheBidenator

        Dude are you like Bragman’s body guard or his boyfriend? Shut the fuck up.

        • sohrob

          No I’m just someone who happened to read this weak rebuttal and voiced my opinion which apparently ruffled a bunch of feathers on all of you thin-skinned morons who can’t debate your position if your lives depended on it. You’re weak as fuck and so was that dumb-ass “song” you posted as a rebuttal.

          • HazooToo

            I think you maaaay have just made it into our Sunday special. Congratulations. You can fuck off now.

          • JMP

            This whole thread should be a goldmine for @doktorzoom:disqus this weekend.

    • King of America

      Yes Hillary is always talking about how much she loves war, and we definitely have to give the election to Trump because otherwise midterms or something

    • Scopedog

      John McCain and Mitt Romney are Republicans. Donald Trump is just straight out aspiring tyrant.

      –Al Giordano (from Twitter)

  • Hardly Ideal

    In light of this… piece… from Salon, I feel this deserves re-re-re-posting.
    http://orig00.deviantart.net/b9aa/f/2012/311/5/8/vote_by_kris_wilson-d5k9y24.png

  • Juju

    Sadly, I do think Trump is much less likely to push disastrous, 1%er international deals than is Clinton.

    • Zippy W Pinhead

      Seriously? Drumpf is the quintessential one percenter who is simply cutting out the middleman so he doesn’t have to bother buying politicians anymore

    • Playonwords

      Sadly, you believe you are thinking. Consider, Trump is only for renegotiation of trade deals IF the ‘Pubes think they are damaging to the USA.

    • jmk

      Then I must point out that sadly, your ignorance of actual facts should – but, sadder still, does not – disqualify you from voting.

      Try facts, cupcake. You’ll find they work better in the end.

      • Juju

        Hillary is guaranteed to push the TPP. Guaranteed. She’s on record as calling it the ‘gold standard’ for international trade deals, and before you give me that dimwitted bullshit about her being ‘undecided’ now… she was one of the central figures in it’s creation. If you believe she’s ‘undecided’ on the issue, you’re a moron.

    • Bigby

      Yeah, the 0.001% douche that outsourced every job in his “Trumppire” (snick) will turn into Eugene Debs and Hawley-Smoot’s love child next year. I take it you’re cushy enough that you won’t be…affected by his Dubya Times Eleven Foreign and Trade policies? Cuz I actually AM that cushy, and old (no army for me), and white, and educated, and will probably get a TrumpCut™ yooooge tax cut, and I *still* know that fuckhead would be worse that Dubya. Then again, I didn’t believe Dubya’s lies either, which is why I protested the 2000 election AND the war, and unlike lying shitheel Judith Miller, I really WAS “proved fucking right”.

    • Bemused

      OTOH, Trump will give out nukes like candy, give up our financial advantage in international coalitions (because he doesn’t understand why we maintain it), and alienate all our allies. Also, there is zero evidence that he wouldn’t push more disastrous 1% international deals, especially since he personally already benefits from several of them and he has a history of unethical practices.

    • Lara

      Trump is also much less likely to not invade China, be best besties ever with Putin and accidentally sell the White House.

    • King of America

      Yes the actual card-carrying member of the 1% sure is less likely to do something to benefit himself and his friends than the lifetime liberal. That makes lots of sense and you are very smart for thinking it.

      • leemoder

        That is “sarcasm”; is it not?

        • King of America

          It certainly is!

      • urgelt

        They’re both in the 1%.

        In fact they’re both in the top one tenth of one percent.

        • King of America

          The Clintons are self-made millionaires. If you can’t see the difference I feel sorry for you.

          • urgelt

            Self-made?

            You’re drunk.

            When Bill left office, they were broke. Legal fees, y’know. They went on the lecture circuit, raked in HUGE fees and are worth over $100 million dollars now. And that doesn’t include their control over the Clinton Foundation, which rakes in even more unregulated money. It’s all legal, but self-made? Nuh-uh.

            Don’t tell me you aren’t just a *wee* bit curious about what the Clintons are saying in those $300K for 40 minute speeches?

            Won’t matter if you are curious. Hillary is not going to release those transcripts. No way, no how. That would be a 47% moment, for sure.

          • King of America

            So that’s the VERY DEFINITION of self-made? They were broke and now they have millions?
            Also, no, I’m not the *wee-est* bit curious about your bizarre conspiracy theories.

          • urgelt

            You aren’t curious about what Clinton said to Goldman Sachs?

            Your neurons aren’t working right.

          • King of America

            No I’m not curious about [CLINTON CONSPIRACY THEORY #423621]. Weird, huh?

        • King of America

          Also, just to be clear, the Sanders are in the top 1% (probably, it’s hard to be sure given their refusal to disclose their tax returns).

  • sohrob

    What a poorly written piece. I feel like if someone who hadn’t read the Bragman piece before reading this they would actually be swung to his side by the time they finished reading it. lol

    • Villago Delenda Est

      You’re entitled to your opinion. Even if you did pull it out of your ass.

    • Zippy W Pinhead

      we heard you the first time, nitwit

    • Playonwords

      Awww, ze diddums finks he’s being clever-wever. He finks zat silly liddle boiz liek him iz annoying

      Awwwww, blesss

    • jmk

      Is that you, Wally?

      Your piece sucked. No amount of damage control could change that.

      • SullivanSt

        Checks profile…

        Obvious sockpuppet is sock, puppet.

      • sohrob

        :-D No it’s not Wally but I fully believe that most of the accounts on this page in defense of your poorly written piece are actually just the author herself lol. Pathetic. His piece was outlined and supported so much more clearly and persuasively than your weak-ass rebuttal. I told my friend who sent me the piece that he should be embarrassed.

        • Zippy W Pinhead

          I fully believe that most of the accounts on this page in defense of
          your poorly written piece are actually just the author herself lol

          That would be one more thing you’re wrong about, nitwit

        • Lara

          OMG, I wrote this piece and don’t even know it!

        • TheBidenator

          I could easily rebut his piece in a couple of sentences: Donald Trump is a fascistic, racist fuckhead who is a bog standard wingnut and clearly believes the presidency is a right wing dictatorship. Any Bernie Sanders supporters who vote for him are fucking imbeciles. Clear enough?

        • Gleem-McShinez

          I’m an alt-Rebecca, and you actually have a “friend who sent me the piece”

        • Xenophile23

          Me too! Me too! I wrote it too! O__o

          • thenearesthippie

            I AM SPARTACUS!

          • Spotts1701

            Dude, I’m Spartacus this week! You’re Spartacus next week.

          • JMP

            I’m Brian, and so is my wife!

          • thenearesthippie

            I never get the schedule changes!

        • jmk

          LOL I call shenanigans!!

          No WAY you have friends!!!

          • MarkM

            Sure he does! They play hacky sack and talk about how kewl Bernie is ALL THE TIME!!

          • Bad Granny

            Sure, his friend George Glass.

        • DoILookAmused2u ?

          Roses are red
          Violets are blue
          I’m schizophrenic’
          And so am I.

    • Lily412

      No. You don’t even need to read the original piece to know the author is wrong. Trump is not fit to be president–end of sentence. If we vote for him simply because we don’t 100% like the opposing candidate, then we are sending a message to politicians that it’s okay to act like a know-nothing blowhard, because people will still vote for you. And we’re also sending a message to the world that we, as a people, are idiots who learned nothing from the G.W. Bush debacle.

      • Lara

        And a message that wimmenfolk suck and shouldn’t try to run for president, since there’s a dark, compressed, barely hidden core of misogyny in a lot of the crap getting spewed at Clinton right now.

    • Xenophile23

      Um. no. Contrary to your feelings, not only have I not read the Bragman piece (not that he has anything to brag about) at all, but I also feel that our Editrix has ably summarized it while ripping it apart. Also, too, it’s “feel AS IF”, not “feel LIKE”, dear Salon troll, and I won’t even finish correcting the rest of the grammar (jeez!) in that sentence for you, ‘cuz I know you’ve already quit reading. Kisses!

    • MarkM

      How many times do you plan to repeat that comment? Do you think rote repetition of a silly, illogical statement strengthens that statement? Are you capable of making an intelligent, grammatically correct, logically coherent post?
      “I feel like if someone who hadn’t read the Bragman piece…” WTF? You like your word salad chopped, I gather?
      I only hope that you will like back on your Berniebroism somewhat abashedly, should you ever mature into an adult….which certainly isn’t the case yet, regardless of what the calendar might deceive you into thinking.

    • archpundit

      Feel? That’s the thing about feelings. They are often quite delusional. Try thinking.

  • Playonwords

    Dear SfB is going to be good this week

  • sohrob

    I love how this anti-Bernie page has a huge Berne Sanders banner across the top of it. Ohhhh the irony. Granted, it’s not coming out directly against Bernie but it’s definitely in the vein of anti-BernieOrBust, let’s be real. ?

    • DoILookAmused2u ?

      Good gawd yer stufid.

      • Villago Delenda Est

        Among other things.

    • rebecca

      we’re not anti-Bernie. We were applauding him *literally before you were born*.

      What we are is anti moronic-child-nihilists.

      • TheBidenator

        I’ve actually never been all that sold on Bernie- I’ve always felt he was more of a rhetorician and a leftist scold than anyone realistic or productive. Thom Hartmann loves to interview Bernie and I just, I dunno I always like he is great at arguing but terrible at concrete policies.

        • thenearesthippie

          Something about Bernie makes me feel as if I’m at odds with his positions even though I mostly agree with them. Maybe it’s the finger wagging.

        • leemoder

          After a couple of months of Brunch With Bernie, I finally figured he essentially has the same answer to every question. This was back in ’09.

        • MarkM

          I almost wish he would get elected POTUS just to see the rending of garments and gnashing of teeth from his most rabid supporters when he was unable to get his wilder policy fantasies turned into actual legislation.

          • Jen_Baker_VA

            Awww…be nice now. They didn’t ALL turn on Bamz 2 days into his first term.
            Only most of em.

          • Vegan and Tiara

            Wait…you’re saying you don’t think President Bernie could get a republican Congress to give everyone free college tuition? You’re obviously in the bag for Hillary.

        • Bad Granny

          You know, I’ve had a heart on (SWIDT?) For Bernie for years, I was firmly in the don’t-run-because-it’s-beneath-you camp for quite a while, then I was glad we had Bernie to pull Hillary to the left. These days I’m mostly disappointed because, as much as I agree with him, I can’t get past wishing I could hear more substance and nuanced understanding from him.

          Also too, ain’t it great we had a youngster stop by to give us a history lesson and tell us how to be libtarts?

    • Playonwords

      Ummm, You’re an utter dickhead.

      The Wonkettariate has generally preferred Bernie but if Hillary is the nominee they will vote for her, if capable.

    • rebecca

      “anti-Bernie” and “anti-Bernie-or-bust” are two different things, or Bernie Sanders would be anti himself.

      you hush now, the grownups are talking.

      • TheBidenator

        I think you just lost your Communist carrying card, ‘Trix….

        • sohrob

          Not voting for $hillary doesn’t mean we’re voting for Trump. It means we might vote for a third-party candidate like Jill Stein of the Green Party, even if it means costing HRC the WH. Not going to play this game of being guilted into choosing the lesser of two evils because they chose to play in a broken system.

          • TheBidenator

            It means you’re an idiot- see Shrub, George Dubya. Yeah those Nader voters in 2000 made a really wise decision to vote for him didn’t they?

          • leemoder

            Would that be Bush The Lesser?

          • sohrob

            Get your facts straight, it’s already been proven that Nader’s voters didn’t cause the loss in Florida. Gore lost because Bush’s hench woman in FL allowed more than enough votes for Gore to be tossed out (remember the hanging chad fiasco?) along with a variety of other reasons. Either way, it doesn’t matter. I’m not going to vote for Republican-light (HRC) just because I’m supposed to be afraid of a Trump presidency. Change hurts, and if we can’t hit the DNC where it hurts nothing will ever change.

          • TheBidenator

            I didn’t say Nader’s voters lost Florida for Gore. The US Supreme Court did with their unprecedented (literally, you CANNOT cite this ruling) ruling in Bush v. Gore cost Gore Florida. Nader’s voters merely made purple states red in 2000. That is factual….

          • thixotropic jerk

            Do you even hear what it is you’re saying?

            “Change hurts, and if we can’t hit the DNC where it hurts nothing will ever change.”

            So, based on your premise, if somehow we all vote for Trump and he wins, the DNC will then do what? Go ahead, what will they change?

            Oh that’s right, not a fucking thing because why would they?

            If anything, they would run a candidate who’s even farther to the right than HIllary The Centrist next time because that is the message we would be sending them, not “Uh-oh, we shoulda backed Bernie Sanders more, dang!”

            I get your frustration boo boo but you are going about making your “points” in a bass-ackwards, obstinate, and completely petulant and childish fashion. Just part of the reason why we can’t take you (or your “ideas”) seriously, BRO!

          • thenearesthippie

            “So, based on your premise, if somehow we all vote for Trump and he wins, the DNC will then do what? Go ahead, what will they change?”

            Welp, the DNC will be so chastened by a Trump presidency that it will unilaterally give up soft money and super PACS and corporate contributions, thus lighting the way to glorious VICTORY!!!!

          • Gleem-McShinez

            I simply want to know what does an Unicorn Shit Sandwich taste like?

            Because you’re pretty confident the “hurtful change” works out in a positive way, somehow.

            I see the “change” more along the lines of guaranteeing that The Green Party gets zero Congressional representation in future elections.

            Oh wait, that’s pretty much how it is now.

            STORY CHECKS OUT BRO

          • archpundit

            So Paul LePage won because of Katherine Harris too? Good to know. Go read Duverger’s Law.

          • jmhm

            Boy, you told us. I guess your work here is done and you can scamper back to Salon and do some more historical research. I hear Kos diaries are practically millennial Plutarch. Enjoy.

          • Scopedog

            You’re still helping Trump anyway, and justifying the country being tossed over the fence and given the business.

            You can take your “purity” and “conscience” and stick ’em.

          • thenearesthippie

            And a Trump presidency will definitely fix the system.

          • Scopedog

            This applies to you, bub:

            “We lost so you should too” is the story of the white American “left” of the last 40 years.–Al Giordano

          • King of America

            Jill Stein and the Green Party are pushing homeopathy and other medical quackery; they are in no wise liberal or progressive.

          • SH
          • King of America

            Medicine isn’t perfect, so homeopathy. Got it.

          • Jen_Baker_VA

            Government does not work; let’s burn it down!!!!!!
            See? It is good for everything!

          • SH

            Apparently you don’t. But good luck with all that thinking stuff.

          • King of America

            What an idiot I’ve been, believing in evidence-based medicine all these years! Your comments have truly opened my mind to the healing power of tap water.

          • TheBidenator

            Oh Jesus, really? FFS! What a bunch of idiots.

          • Jen_Baker_VA

            You mean the people elected the one you did not want?
            HOW AWFUL! Why, it is almost as if you were a teabagger all mad that the people elected a black man!!!!!
            Grow up.

          • archpundit

            As soon as the contradictions are heightened it’ll all come out all right.

          • jmhm

            OK. None of you voted before, from what both the Sanders and Trump campaigns are telling us. Take your ball and go home.

          • Kavefish

            This is what I’m beginning to suspect, also too. They’ve never ever voted before, and will never ever vote again.

          • phoenix00

            ‘grill the steak long enough and the meat cooks out’. Gotcha.

            damn I miss BCO/not OTM already

      • sohrob

        Splitting hairs. Bragman’s piece is essentially a defense of Bernie Or Bust.

        • thixotropic jerk

          You can vote for Jill Stein all you want Mr. Babby Millennial and feel good and smug about it, but Bragman’s “article” supporting voting for Trump just because Sanders isn’t going to get nominated and he hates Hillary (which I get) is ab-so-lute-ly fucking LUDICROUS! It’s badly written and incoherent! The points he brings up make no sense! It’s especially dangerous if twits like yourself buy his BS and convince others to vote for that fascist. WTF????

        • rebecca

          right. you said we were anti-bernie and then when I said no we aren’t, you said we are anti-bernie-or-bust. Correct. So is Bernie Sanders. My hairs are still entirely whole.

          • Bad Granny

            …and fabulous.

        • Scopedog

          It’s still a pile of s*#!.

    • Zippy W Pinhead

      You dumbass, most of the people you’re arguing with voted for Sanders.

      To paraphrase Bill: It’s the stupidity, stupid

    • TheBidenator

      Since you’re boring, sock puppet I will insult you in song:

      Take me down to the sock puppet city,
      where the guy is a moron and his comments are shitty
      oh won’t you please take me hoooommmmeeee, yeah, yeah

      Just an urchin living under the street,
      I have computer and a head of meat
      I am charity case so please kick my ass
      I support Trumpy’s class
      Get the fuck outta the site- BEAT IT.

      Bernie supportin’ or so I say,
      You gotta be a fucking moron to want to play
      You know I really am a Trumper playing a game
      You treat it like a capital crime,
      Fuck yeah I’ll be doing some time.

      • sohrob

        Yawn. That was just dumb.

        • DoILookAmused2u ?

          Sohorob’s got sumthin’ to say

          It’s better to Bernout than Hill-a-ray

          Trollin’, trollin’
          With eyes a rollin’
          On the phone
          With Roger Stone
          And he’s controllin’

          • leemoder

            Kurgan libelz!

        • Villago Delenda Est

          Yup, we’ve found the stereotypical useful idiot here, kids.

        • TheBidenator

          Says the president of the Walker Bragman fan club. What points did he make that were SO valid? Campaign finance reform is a reason to vote for Trump? Uh your so perfect, perfect Bernie isn’t going publicly financed and has actually raised a lot more than Hillary Clinton has not to mention the entire premise is flawed. Donald Trump just walking in and saying, “I’m a billionaire so lick my balls and give me the presidency is the ANTHESIS of American Democracy. We all agree campaign finance needs to be reformed but voting for a guy who is going to simply buy the presidency is fucking demented- it’s cutting your nose off to spite your face. Is that better sock puppy?
          Also, my lyrics were awesome and can be sung along with GnR’s classic “Paradise City” BernieBro troll.

          • DoILookAmused2u ?

            I tried to do Def Leppard kinda sorta

          • sohrob

            I get the feeling that you and the others who are attacking Bragman didn’t even bother to read his entire piece. Rebecca took a few slices of his column and attacked them out of context (and ineffectually I might add).

          • TheBidenator

            Really I don’t need to read Walker Bragman’s entire column to say he’s an idiot. I just look at Donald Trump, what he has said and what he stands for and I say to myself if you’re liberal enough to have supported Bernie Sanders there is not enough polish in the world to make that piece of manatee shit look good. I’m not a Millennial nor an overpaid journalist but I do have a political science degree and I have listened very carefully to Donald Trump.
            Let’s just say anything he says that liberals MIGHT like he quickly backpeddles from into something hard right. Take health care for example- Walker Bragman may not find health care anymore valid than he does black people, Hispanic people or Muslims but I find all them equally valid. Donald Trump has said he wants to get rid of Obamacare and replace it with what? Well initially he said he didn’t want people dying in the streets and made sounds like he supports Universal care but when pressed for specifics he supports expanding HSA’s and letting insurance companies sell across state lines. That is EXACTLY the same policy as the GOP and it is NOT even close to Universal care.
            Then we look at who he surrounds himself with: people like gun nut Katrina Pierson who when asked about his plan to deny Muslims coming into the US as leading to the deaths of scores of refugees remarked, “who cares? They’re just Muslims”. I don’t care what points Walker Bragman thinks he’s making to ignore all the horrendous shit over one or two logical fallacies and a demented, German Centre Party-like “well he says this much” argument is moronic. Better? Or should I go on?

          • thixotropic jerk

            I read HumbleBragman’s “piece” and several of the comments on Salon’s own site about his article and nope, wasn’t moved to think, “Hey, this idiot is on to something!” Nope, not at all. But keep trying to defend him with useless arguments (and ineffectually, I am definitely adding) because if it keeps you from playing in the streets for another 10 minutes then we may have just saved your life!

          • MarkM

            I am quite sure his ineffectuality could be attested to by his former girlfriends…

          • TheBidenator

            Also and not to kiss ass but Rebecca is an accomplished woman and very intelligent in her own right. I have no doubt that the parts she selected from the Salon piece were in perfect context. One thing right wingers ALWAYS claim when they get caught being racist, moronic, corrupt assholes is we took them out of context. If anything given what Walker Bragman is arguing in favor of the context is worse.

          • King of America

            Your feeling is wrong.

          • MarkM

            It was quite effectual in fact. Bragman’s column is an idiotic agglomeration of self-absorbed twaddle and blatant sophistry, but typical of much of the self deluded “Bernie or nothing!” garbage that is being vomited out by sophisticates like him and his BernieBro in arms HA! Goodman.

  • D_C_Wilson

    Congratulations, Mr. Bragman, you have officially taken the title of “Stupidest Man on the Internet” away from Jim Hoft.

    • Villago Delenda Est

      Let’s not get carried away here. Bragman may be very badly mistaken, but Hoft has a track record that speaks for itself.

  • NotALiar

    White people. AMIRITE?

  • henri_cervantes

    true evil stalks the land, said the robot to the clone, while the vultures gathered.

  • Xenophile23

    Dear Becca, thanks ever so much for reading Salon for our amusement. I can’t even anymore. You’re a mensch!

  • TheBidenator

    .White people really are the worst- let’s vote for the guy who wants to kick all Hispanic people out the country, wants to ban all Muslims from coming in including American citizens and thinks cops aren’t empowered enough to beat and shoot black people because he doesn’t have a super PAC- you shit for brains idiot.

  • Mintie

    I just . . . yeah. So . . . yeah. I haven’t seriously read Salon in years, and now I never will. Fabulous.

  • copperanna

    Salon sucks so bad. I give up. I deleted my bookmarks to the site.

    • Every1sAWinner

      I blocked them on twitter

  • ChynnaBlue

    Walker Bragman looks like a super white hipster who doesn’t have to worry about deportation, abortion, increased levels of misogyny and racism, the KKK, or getting shot by the police at a traffic stop. Easy for him to vote for Trump.

    • Jenny

      Is that seriously the most douchiest name ever? Walker. Bragman.

      Also I thought that pic was of epi-douche John Mayer. Nope, just his impersonator.

  • Jukesgrrl

    Trump’s not beholden to “special interests”? What does this jagoff think Trump’s OWN interests are? Does Bragman think that Trump would do anything as president that wasn’t in the interest of making himself richer and huuuuuuger?

    • urgelt

      Yeah, that.

  • Ninja0980

    Hey ladies, members of the LGBT community, people with family members that could be deported, people on government assistance.
    Walter Bragman says you are all expendable for the next four years but don’t worry, it’s for a greater good so you should all shut up about the fears you have of reproductive rights being destroyed, marriage equality being rolled back or a family member being deported.
    And the Berniebros wonder why so many people don’t feel the Bern?

    • King of America

      Look, what’s more important – Roe v. Wade or the fee-fees of some entitled bro? I mean be fair.

  • sohrob

    Ugh, you guys are draining me. I’m done fighting with the Hillarybots on this page. Have fun defending your one-term corporate-controlled war monger president folks! IF she wins that is. Us BernieBros might derail that coronation after all..mwahahahahaha

    • TrumpsAlterEgo

      cool story bro . . enjoy your whiny life of FAIL

    • Jenny

      Bye

    • Jen_Baker_VA

      WAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    • King of America

      FYI most of the people yelling at you were Sanders supporters.

    • thenearesthippie

      Hillary will be a two-term president, your BernieBros whiny titty baby tantrum notwithstanding. See you in 2024.

      • Jen_Baker_VA

        This fucker is no Bernie Bro. He is a Trumptrooper in disguise.

        • thenearesthippie

          You’re probably right, but sometimes I have trouble distinguishing exactly which species of derp I’m observing.

          • Jen_Baker_VA

            ANYONE who actually, actually believes that Trump would be better for anyone in this country is most assuredly NOT getting Bernie’s message even a little.
            So they are either really stupid Berniebros, or trumptroopers. I am opting for b since I refuse to admit anyone who is liberal can be that dumb. Or selfish.

          • JMP

            I think some of the ones agitating for helping to elect Trump by voting for Jill Stein were sincere Naderite idiots, but this one is definitely just a Trumper in very flimsy disguise.

          • Jen_Baker_VA

            Agreed. Very telling how thin skinned run off and whine he is.

          • jmhm

            Yeah, but a lot of those were Republicans, especially the second time.

            http://archive.businessjournaldaily.com/republican-campaign-donors-also-give-nader-money-2004-8-20

          • SullivanSt

            Being stupid doesn’t preclude one from being liberal, although I strongly believe it makes it less likely. It’s obvious error therefore to think the converse ;)

    • thixotropic jerk

      SNIFF!! But-but we were just getting started on you and now you won’t play with us anymore? You’re not scared now, are ya, Us BernieBros? Are ya, huh? Are ya? Yeahhhhh, you so scared!!!! Now run along back to the dark bowels of the Trump Tower from whence you was excrementated!

      • Jen_Baker_VA

        the smart movement earlier referenced?

    • JMP

      Yeah sorry sockpuppet, but we can see through you, it’s obvious that you’re not even an insufferable BernieBro but a conservative MRA Trump supporter just pretending to be one. Replying to yourself from your main account kind of was a dead giveaway.

      • jmhm

        My favorite thing about this one is the part where ‘Rebecca’ is being unfair to ‘Bragman.’ Because when you’re a Very Important Acended Comment Troll and you’re that close to leaving puberty behind, you deserve a little more respect than some girl.

        • JMP

          But Rebecca is obviously a girl*, and Walter is a man, therefore she owes him respect. This is what the dickheads actually believe.

          *and it’s always “girl”, even when we’re talking about someone in her 40s.

    • kareemachan

      Did somebody hear a brain fart just now?

    • SeeTrain65

      You’re mean. You made me cwy.

  • TrumpsAlterEgo

    Salon has gone completely nuts . .

    I’ve removed them from everything and will never visit that site again

  • brucej

    “clapping themselves on their backs ”

    Wow, what an interesting new slang for “circle jerk”…

  • Jen_Baker_VA

    Jesus fucking christ, how telling. 2020 coming up? Erm, do believe there will be a mid term before then, Salon.
    You stupid mother fucking assholes.

    Can we call them neoliberal GOP shills now?

    • Kavefish

      I was doing a quick scan down this thread and my dyslexia turned your line into: “You step-mother fucking assholes” and I thought, “now that’s a new level of insult I’ve not seen before.”

  • TimJ

    IF BERNIE ISN’T GIVEN THE NOMINATION I’M GOING TO SLIT MY WRISTS IN THE BATHTUB! Or maybe I’ll just vote for Hillary, I’m not big on blood and I’d have to clean the bathroom after.

    • Jen_Baker_VA

      You are wise, that would be messy.
      I am for Bernie, but for fuck’s sake, hell yes Hillary is better than Trump. If people do not actually see that, those people are fake liberals who really do not care about anyone but themselves, and they can fuck right off and go join the Libertarians. Because that is where they belong.

      • SH

        You are no longer a liberal if you vote for Hillary, unless the full label is “liberal interventionist.”

        She is a war monger and shameless political opportunist. She is under investigation by the FBI for, at the very best, her utter incompetence in handling national secrets. She is arrogant and disingenuous. She does not care at all about the working people or poor. She happily accepted more money from Wall Street in a few years than most of us will see in our lifetimes and she actually seems insulted that this is even an issue. It’s as if her promise to “fight” for all Americans is not shown to be complete rubbish by her actual actions while a “private citizen” who insists she didn’t even contemplate running for president until she was done raking in the dough.

        But the orange guy is the next Hitler, that is just a fact beyond discussion. So vote for the woman who actually was involved implementing a foreign policy that resulted in the death of innocents the world over instead of a true progressive like Jill Stein.

        • King of America

          Yes you’re no longer a liberal if you vote for Hillary, a person who has spent the bulk of her life fighting for liberal causes. Some Guy has said so, and who would be a better gatekeeper than Some Guy?

          • SH

            Right, liberal causes such as……….the War in Iraq! Or maybe……….the bombing of Serbia. Wait……..incarcerating black people forever.

            Eh forget it. She will lose against Trump and we are screwed either way. At least you will all feel good that you fought the good fight and did not vote on principle but because you are scared of the orange guy.

          • King of America

            Hahaha yeah sure. She will lose, all because we didn’t listen to you – a guy who believes in magic healing water.

          • SH

            I am saying you are going to lose either way, just to clarify. My advice is that people should vote for the party and candidate that is closest to their values. If the millions of Bernie supporters did that and voted Green, and supported the Greens the way they did Bernie that would truly usher a revolutionary shift in American politics. The bandwagon would grow and if people stuck by their guns, the Democrats would either have to actually become a liberal party or the Greens would start winning over their constituencies.

            I do not think the standard medical model is defensible in our country if it directly contributes to the deaths of over half a million people each year. That is the point. Even if homeopathy is bullshit, it won’t kill you because of an adverse prescription drug reaction or a preventable error in the hospital. You do realize that drugs in this country are WAY over prescribed, and that is why so many people die from them.

            Anyway have a good weekend.

          • King of America

            Yes I get that you don’t understand a fucking thing about anything; that was indeed the joke, but thanks for the further illustration.

          • SH

            Do you actually believe anything you are saying? You can just brush off the death of 500k + people a year like nothing?

            The magic is that this is happening at all and most people don’t care.

          • King of America

            The education system really failed you, huh.

          • kareemachan

            Self-righteous indignation and apathy mixed in the same post.

            How quaint.

          • Whale Chowder

            No, you dumbass, it won’t kill you because of an adverse reaction — because it’s fucking tap water. It may, however, kill you because it doesn’t fix anything.

          • SH

            Have you heard of Curcumin? Have you heard of Longveda Curcumin developed in that backwards institution called the University of California? Have you heard of the “scientific” studies on its benefits? No? You are an ignorant ass.

          • phoenix00

            what is this word salad?

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            Oh goody, another whiny little Bernbrat

          • kareemachan

            Nah, it’s a snotty little trumplicker in his mom’s basement.

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            so hard to tell these days. Although the BBs can at least spiel gud

        • thenearesthippie

          And I say you’re no longer a liberal if you collude with fascists and misogynists to get Trump elected.

          • SH

            Well, Clinton did support her husband over all the bimbos he abused and cavorted with. I wouldn’t vote for either of them if I had any principles.

          • King of America

            How dare she deal with her personal relationships differently to how I – Some Guy – would have! Doesn’t she understand that only I, Some Guy, know best?

          • SH

            Man, you are a dick. She is a HYPOCRITE. That is the problem. You just don’t care at all though. You really don’t give a shit.

          • Whale Chowder

            You’ve swallowed 25 years of Republican ratfucking, hook line and sinker. Congratulations.

          • SH

            I don’t even know how to respond to this. I guess nothing happens in this world unless a Democrat says it happened.

          • King of America

            Of course you don’t know how to respond; you’ve bought into Republican propaganda thoroughly, and you are incapable of admitting error. Also, you believe in frigging magic.

          • Whale Chowder

            It certainly doesn’t happen because a fucking republican made it up out of whole cloth *cough*Benghazi!*cough*

          • kareemachan

            And I guess nothing is any good unless it has your stamp of approval.

            That’s pretty damned egotistical of you.

            PS – you still haven’t linked squat.

          • thenearesthippie

            Please present your evidence that Bill Clinton abused any bimbos.

          • SH

            It’s not my evidence. Actual women, you know, those things that Hillary supports so much, have come out and said they were abused by Bill Clinton. They all must have been liars.

          • thenearesthippie

            Alright, then please present THE evidence that Bill Clinton abused any bimbos.

          • kareemachan

            LINK, sweetie, LINK.

            Yet another null-content post from SH(it).

          • Kavefish

            “…those things…”?

            That right wing of yours seems to be carrying some heavy weight. You’ll need to dump some ballast if you intend to stay afloat.

          • SH

            Context is important if you have the ability to discern it.

          • kareemachan

            I do believe that’s a personal decision and has very little to do with an election.

            But be self-righteous – AGAIN – and take your toys and go home.

          • Vegan and Tiara

            Yes, he abused those bimbos so badly! Monica Lewinsky got dragged into Linda Tripp’s bullshit unwillingly. She never had a problem with Clinton until Tripp recorded her talking about her affair with Clinton. She was an adult who had sex with a president because she wanted to, so fucking deal with it. Jesus, you’re worse than most of the idiot Republicans I know.

          • Kavefish

            (this probably *is* one of the idiot Republicans you know.)

          • Vegan and Tiara

            Yeah, it took me a while, but I figured out he was someone who snuck over from the National Review.

          • SH

            I was going to say the same thing about the “people” here.

            There were also allegations from multiple women of unsolicited sexual advances and relatively minor physical violence (if you can call any violence in the context of a sexual assault minor).

            I don’t think republicans put their grimy hands up all these victim’s asses and made them say these things like sock puppets.

        • Whale Chowder

          Well, at least your purity will be intact so yay you?

          • SH

            Not about me. Absolutely not about me in any way. This article and most of the comments are so righteous! Who could disagree? Eat a dick if you disagree. Trump is the devil oh my god! LIfe is over if he gets elected.

            So yeah, if you want to actually change the system instead of circle jerk each other, voting for Hillary ain’t gonna cut it. There is always going to be another Trump, or Cruz, or McCain, or Bush, or Reagan, or Nixon down the line. It will never change.The righteous people here will ensure that is the case.

            And there will always be another Hillary to save the day.

          • King of America

            Of course it’s about you. You demand rigid ideological purity; everyone must think exactly like you. No thanks & fuck you very much – the tea party didn’t work on the right and we’re not going to let you duplicate its failures on the left.

          • Whale Chowder

            You know what *won’t* change the system? Letting your ideological purity get in the way of practical, incremental change so that some jackass is elected that will push things even further in the wrong direction.

            You do you but: 1) Hillary ain’t that bad…she’s actually pretty good if you’re a lefty — despite the bullshit people are saying and 2) voting Green will accomplish exactly jack shit in getting things done in this world. You know, the real one we live in today.

          • Vegan and Tiara

            But remember what a great president Ralph Nader was?

          • kareemachan

            At least there wouldn’t be a Trumpette or Cruz in the WH.

            But it would seem you’re okay with that. I wonder why….

        • Jenny

          Whaaaat I’m not a liberal??? What ever will I do?

          Oh right, show up to elections and vote anyway.

        • SullivanSt

          Oh good lord another person who literally does not know what liberalism means.

          Also, you’re VERY DEFINITELY no longer a liberal if you take actions that increase the probability of Trump becoming President such as, oh, say, not vote, and encourage others not to vote, for the only candidate that could beat him. President Trump would also be spectacularly regressive, so no, you cannot claim the label of progressive either if you do that.

          • SH

            What does it mean exactly? Since I am a retard and you seem to want to clear that up given your frustration.

          • SullivanSt

            So most simply – too simply, of course – but also most importantly, it’s a belief in maximizing individual liberty usually viewed through a utilitarian lens. What it isn’t is a philosophy that inherently takes a noninterventionist stance in international affairs – it is in fact entirely compatible with the commitment to individual rights inherent in liberalism to support intervention where those rights are being trampled.

          • kareemachan

            Google it. Self-education is good for the soul.

        • JMP

          Here’s a helpful tip: when you give credence to idiotic debunked right-wing attacks, like still claiming that Hillary Clinton did something vaguely wrong with her email server even after she’s been completely cleared, you give away that you are not in fact the super-liberal opposition to her as you claim to be but in fact are just another wingnut pretending to be an anti-Clinton liberal. Not to mention that supporting fucking Trump proves someone is opposed to all good things.

        • 1) you’re wrong.

          2) who the hell are you to decide who’s a liberal? I am entirely over self-righteous asshats telling everyone else how to be a liberal. You are not in charge of who gets to be a damn liberal. Mind your own political stance.

          • SH

            You should probably stop reading this strange rag then.

  • Peter Winkler

    Hillary Clinton doesn’t support campaign finance reform. She can’t afford tto, when she’s taken/taking in millions of dollars from Big Finance, Big Pharma, Big Prisons, etc. Then again, you make money from an Amazon affiliate link on your site. No wonder you love Hillary.

    • Jen_Baker_VA

      Say, you know who else took money from larger donors? That’s right, my man Bernie. You know why? Cause we can’t beat the fucking GOP without them.

    • thixotropic jerk

      Aww, ya GOT ME, Wrinkly Peter! I LURV LURV LURV Hillary! Now, what else ya got?

      • Jen_Baker_VA

        I do not lurve her. I respect her fine, but not lurve.
        Where’s that even leave me? I am all confused now. I should start randomly ranting about Mono-whatever food place probably.

        • thixotropic jerk

          You know what else is bad? Keystone Beer! Yeah! How come Hitlery hasn’t publicly stated her repudiation of her former position wherein she asserted the support and condemnation of this cheap-ass barley water substance?

          (Just for reference: the bottom photo shows a very young Hillary – I’ll let you guess which one is her – and the top photo is actually a pic of Wrinkly Peter’s last halloween costume FOR REALSNESS!!!!111)

          • Pierre_de_Fermat

            Never Had Keystone. I have had Dixie Beer, which seems to taste great in New Orleans, but not so good anywhere else. It’s a puzzlement.

          • bobbert

            Everything tastes better in New Orleans. Science fact.

          • Pierre_de_Fermat

            I can vouch for this phenomenon having observed it myself. A number of times. Of course, I would not want to make a rash judgment, so it might be best to continue these observations for an indefinite period of time.

          • Kavefish

            You’ll likely also too have to continue observations for those of us unable to do so, directly. As a public service.

    • Allen Slea

      Do you think content creation happens by clapping your hands and wishing really hard or something? Jesus Christ.

    • House0fTheBlueLights

      Well, when you’re already the Devil’s Spawn, it hardly matters anymore who you take money from amirite?

    • King of America

      A woman made money? A woman?!? This will not stand!

    • YayConspiracy

      Yes, Bernie is the anointed one. Have fun dreaming about Bernie’s presidency during Trump’s term.

      • Jen_Baker_VA

        True story: When they type Pharma it is because they can’t spell pharmacy and don’t know it should be pharmaceutical

        • YayConspiracy

          It is a really long word, though.

          • Jen_Baker_VA

            True, true. Should give him a break for getting the BIG in there.
            Because Little Pharma is totes ok.

          • YayConspiracy

            That’s my local weed supplier.

          • Jen_Baker_VA

            Mine is Smoothie D. We should get them together, Smoothie’s been all lonely since Maine called him out.

    • TheBidenator

      Bernie has raised more money and it’s not all from small donors you jackalopes…

    • jviscont1

      I miss the link to the Trump buttplug vendor on this site too.

      • King of America

        that ad really let you know exactly what this site stood for.

        • kareemachan

          And rightly so.

    • Jenny

      She can’t afford to compete so instead of changing the rules so she can, she’d rather keep playing by rules she would most certainly lose to?

      She’s not interested in campaign finance reform because she doesn’t have a reason to, except she does?/ Citizen United was specifically about her. Most people would have a hard time letting that kind of slight go. Except Hillary because while it’s been proven to negatively effect her party and campaign, she’s just so flim flam with her mind, she will probably forget because she likes Tubmans?

      This all seems very legit and based in reality. Thank you for this solid explanation.

      • SayItWithWookies

        Let’s not forget that then-Senator Obama refused to accept Federal campaign financing when he was running in 2008 — because the associated spending limits would’ve hampered him. When money talks, you do what it takes, even if you really want to reform the system after you win the election.

    • rebecca

      lol :)

      • Zippy W Pinhead

        Jesus, the flying monkeys are thick today… and I do mean thick IYKWIM

    • RAFREE

      You do know Citizens United was pretty much created to attack her don’t you…no, you obviously do not.

      • SullivanSt

        I disagree. Citizens United was entirely created specifically to attack her.

        Let’s remember its full name: Citizens United Not Timid. Yes, Roger Stone is a terrible person.

        • Kavefish

          You just taught me something new. Much appreciated.

        • jmhm

          I think the real Citizen’s United sued Stone and he had to change it to some other cunt acronym. But you’re not wrong about the real one neither.

          http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2008/06/02/the-dirty-trickster

          • SullivanSt

            Ah, right you are. Still, the SCOTUS case specifically involved an explicitly anti-Hillary video so you can understand my confusion

          • jmhm

            I think that may be why they sued Stone, because he was making their Very Serious Crusade Against the Evil Hitlery Klintoon look like a ridiculous vendetta by smallminded assholes. Er, more like.

          • Kavefish

            I’m leaving this clip from that article, for those reading this thread and wondering about the two similarly-named groups:

            “Earlier this year, Stone created an independent political group, known as a 527, to criticize Hillary Clinton, and he dubbed the organization Citizens United Not Timid. The group had no real operations and existed mostly so that Stone could refer to its acronym. I suggested that this was juvenile. “I thought it up in a bar,” Stone said. “I was having fun!” (Rule: “Get your carbs from booze—not potatoes, rice, pasta, or bread.”) His Jaguar was, at that moment, passing the federal courthouse in Miami, where he had just been sued for trademark infringement by an actual political organization that used the name Citizens United. “It was unbelievable,” Stone told me. “We spent a whole half a day in court on this stupid thing. And at the end of the day I announced that I had a new name: Citizens Uniformly Not Timid.””

            There are several Google links to articles about “Citizens United Not TImid” that probably pre-date the lawsuit, and it would be bad form to continue to cite them, it seems to me.

            I can’t find any more references to Stone’s 527 group beyond the New Yorker article, so maybe if fizzled and died.

    • kareemachan

      Did you stomp your feet and nod self-righteously when you wrote that?

      It sounds like it.

    • Kavefish

      Amazon is in the #6 position of the top 20 corporate contributors to Bernie’s campaign. Continuing:

      #7 – US Navy
      #8 – Kaiser Permanente
      #9 – Boeing
      #10 – Intel

      See the whole Top 20 list here:

      https://www.opensecrets.org/pres16/contrib.php?id=N00000528

    • SeeTrain65

      In the words of Charlie Pierce, “Do you hear the canaries, Clarice?”

  • TheBidenator

    I haven’t written in my blog for a week or so but I may do my own point-by-point takedown of this sophistic idiocy of this column. This is just too much, really…”Trump’s brand of populism has been enabled by the roughly 40 year decline of our middle class that both parties have facilitated through the abandonment of Franklin D. Roosevelt.” Which translates into what, exactly? Oh right Trumpy is in favor of tax cuts for the rich, deregulation of industry and turning Medicaid into block grants you fucking idiot.

  • jviscont1

    Hearing Bob Knight (a self declared military historian for coaching up West Point at one time I guess) endorse Trump saying he would be the best Prez since Truman cuz he dropped the bomb on Japan in 1944, was scary.

  • YayConspiracy

    An essay that would earn you an F (and certainly a big FU) in high school gets published in Salon now?

  • InstantRunoff

    Salon is not good.

  • HiloBoy69

    Oh Godess you have not foresaken the sensible – thanks be for this to put our stilettoed feet back on earth and to stomp out the idiocy of the flock of Bernie.

    Seriously, wickedly true in every damn riff!! It’ll be over the wee heads of the Salon crew and that ilk.

    Have these ideologues not learned from the 2000 Election debacle? Same privileged, clove ciggie puffing, fair-trade bio CHOCOLATE scarfing kids. Bernie btw endorsed and stumped for who else in 2000 but Nader (Bernie never helps any other candidate but he did help W that election).

    All I can say is that Sarandon better not show up in St. Tropez to escape the Trump terror she wraught if he – gasp – wins. We’ll run her out to sea.

    • kareemachan

      You know what? I don’t even think that badly of Bernie. I think there’s a certain degree of honest earnestness (or earnest honesty – whatever) there. His so-called followers, on the other hand….

      Oy.

      • Vegan and Tiara

        I USED to like Bernie, but now he’s just pissing me off. I would have voted for him if he had won, but his dumbass supporters think they’re going to prove some point by letting Trump win.

  • TheBidenator

    Alright BernieBros…here is your big chance: how would anything Bernie wants to do pass congress particularly when he’s unwilling to help more than a few down ticket Democrats with financing? Let’s say for five minutes Bernie Sanders turned his rhetoric into policy, how in the ever lasting FUCK does he expect a GOP congress to rollover and allow it? They branded Obama the second coming of Lenin and his policies are centrist. Explain how a socialist revolution would work in this environment.

    • Whale Chowder

      You don’t understaaaaaaaaaand! The Bernie Revolution will flip the House and Senate because reasons!

      Stupid Neo-Liberal! You don’t understand anything!

    • Jenny

      Revolution!!

    • thenearesthippie

      Purity and finger wagging.

    • Bad Granny

      1) Elect Bernie
      2) ???
      3) Shared profit!!1!

  • SmotPoker

    So.

    You admit that it was Barack Obama that murdered Scalia while he slept.

    I knew it.

    • URQ196

      It’s true, I’ve seen video of Air Force One landing on the highway just outside the ranch where Scalia was killed.

    • Bad Granny

      It is known.

  • freereel

    Ick.

    This is the most appropriate way to support Hillary–with snark.

    So let me get this straight.

    1) Hillary has been a powerful part of the establishment for decades: as First Lady, Senator, Secretary of State, and two-time Presidential Candidate. A very experienced and very influential lady.

    2) She’s been, in her words “fighting for the middle class” this whole time.

    3) The middle class has been gutted. Average middle class incomes are FLAT in real terms since the 1970s. This means that 0% of the gains from 40 year of economic growth, productivity growth, the computer revolution, etc. went to the middle class.

    Conclusion: Either Hillary is extremely ineffective, or maybe, just maaaaaybe, she had a few unnamed constituents OTHER than the middle class (Goldman Sachs and McDonnell Douglass to name just a few) whose interests weren’t always aligned withe the middle class.

    The middle class has fared worse during her “public service” career than ever before. Now that she’s pushing 70 with no positive results yet, you’ll have to forgive my skepticism that she should be given MORE power to continue her failed work for the middle class.

    • Whale Chowder

      Looking at your comment history (all 35!) hints that you may not be an actual Berner. Your comment is bad and you should beel bad.

      • JMP

        At least the last fake Bernie supporter was using a brand new account to try and hide his identity – here we can actually see he’s just one of Trump’s brown shirts.

    • Zippy W Pinhead

      or maybe you’re full of shit and you’re trying to blame everything wrong in life on one woman. Classic Bro, there Bro

    • thixotropic jerk

      Thanks for pointing out that Hillz is to blame for the disappearance of the middle class, whew! Now I can go back to Blaming Obammsys for all the racisms, zika virus, sunspots, chem trails and the rise in price of them cakes we like!!!!

    • kareemachan

      So…. what did Hillary have to do with 70’s economy?

      Also, I notice a distinct odor and lack of anything remotely factual to back you up.

      Did you also “know* that Obama was born in Kenya or a commie in Indonesia or whatever da fuq?

    • Vegan and Tiara

      Hillary made me fat, and gave my kids autism.

      • thixotropic jerk

        I am so sorry, here, have an Obammy phone. There. Better?

        • Vegan and Tiara

          I like to call it my “Reaganphone” since Reagan was the one who actually started that program. Probably because it helped one of his buddies in the telecom business. Just like his “privatize prisons because they’ll be more efficient” and “war on drugs” helped his corporate cronies.

      • snigsy

        Jeez, you too? More proof . . .

    • SeeTrain65

      Hmm … that really makes me think … you’ve been huffing aerosol paint.

  • market apartments

    I find it interesting that Obama was seen as a win for all people of color, as his election was a major breakthrough in this country, but Hillary is just an Establishment Politician who won’t change anything, even though her getting this close to the job is itself groundbreaking.

    We need to remember the symbolic importance of being able to vote for a chick.

    • SullivanSt

      Jesse Jackson was significantly more competitive in the 1988 Democratic primaries than any female candidate had been for either major party’s nomination before Clinton.

      • market apartments

        So? Jackson didn’t even get close to the nomination.

        • SullivanSt

          So… it’s an even bigger deal that Clinton is on the verge that it was that Obama won in ’08.

          I mean Shirley Chisholm said “When I ran for the Congress, when I ran for president, I met more discrimination as a woman than for being black.”

  • Jenny

    You’re not punk rock! You’re not punk!! I’ve been punk rock before you!

    Trade punk for progressive. Same really dumb argument for people who aren’t secure in their person.

    • data_ninja

      “You’re not punk, and I’m telling everyone!” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37dBq_4TsZI

      • Jenny

        I managed to not make a few friends for ignoring how punk some people were. I think that makes me extra punk rock!

  • Kooolest G

    I think bernie is actually the second coming of christ, think about it. jewish carpenter who wants to help the poor through the socialisms. I also really like his message, but the real proof is how annoying and preachy some of his followers are.

  • Gary Garloo

    Don’t blame us.. we’re trying to prevent a President Trump too.. and Bernie Sanders IS the better chance. https://medium.com/@webconnoisseur/latest-reuters-data-shows-hillary-losing-to-trump-but-bernie-wins-d322d691ce17#.gob3e6g4m

    It’s not our fault you’re backing a war mongering oligarch like Clinton.

    • thixotropic jerk

      Are you? Then why are you voting for Trump?

      • Gary Garloo

        If I wanted a President Trump, i’d throw my vote away on Wall Street Puppet $hillary.

        • Gary Garloo

          That is, if she survives the FBI investigation.

          • King of America

            The FBI investigation that isn’t of Hillary Clinton and which will never, ever result in her being charged with anything? That one?

          • Gary Garloo

            FBI investigates criminal activity. Snowden had to go into hiding for doing the same thing. Laws are for peasants, ammiright?

          • Whale Chowder

            Some time you should try reading for comprehension. Hillary’s email server, while arguably a bad idea, was not prohibited while she was in office and in fact Condi Rice and Colin Powell also eschewed using a gov’t email account.

            Snowden, love him or hate him, stole and released email that was classified at the time of release. Somewhat a different scenario, eh what?

          • thenearesthippie

            Aaaannnd back to you, Gary.

          • King of America

            Yes apples are indeed just like oranges

          • rebecca

            lol :D

          • thixotropic jerk

            I know, right? They are soooo coming for her, I hope she can protect herself!

          • Gary Garloo

            I know… RIGHT? RIGHT?

          • thixotropic jerk

            Is there an echo in here, or just an ongoing fart sound? Ugh, what’s that smell? Gary! How could you?!?!

          • Gary Garloo

            Good one.. except it is not. Read more, type less.

          • thixotropic jerk

            Gary, I know you love the smell of your own farts, but why you gotta be comin’ roun’ here with that smelly shit? You’re getting yourself all foamed-up over some made up bullshit that you have swallowed hook-line-and-stinker, and now you think you’re playing “Gotchya” with us except, no, you are the mousie dung and we is the kittehs – did you not see Ms. Wonkette on the banner?

          • JMP

            And once again, the fake anti-Clinton liberal outs themselves as another conservative badly pretending to be a Bernie-or-Buster. Good job!

          • kareemachan

            Gawd, you’re funny. Sad, pathetic, stupid, but at least a teensy bit funny.

          • Vegan and Tiara

            What about BENGHAZI???!!!!111???? She’s killed at least FIVE Americans, that we know of! Circles within circles people.

        • thixotropic jerk

          Ouch, that deeply wounded me and now I am at a loss

        • kareemachan

          Wow, what teabagger meme website did you find *that* on?

      • Gary Garloo

        I can’t in clear conscious vote for $hillary. Oligarchy doesn’t look good on me, and I don’t want the blood on my hands for the ongoing wars she will perpetuate. Don’t get angry at me because you are all lazy when it comes to researching a presidential candidate.

        • King of America

          You missed out on a perfect opportunity to use the word “sheeple” there.

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            WAKE UP!!1!

        • thixotropic jerk

          I know, look how hard you werked to post three non-comment comments all in a row, even! You have mos def shamed my preznit candidate research lazinessesseges, Gary, and now I hang my head for to cry!

        • SayItWithWookies

          “I don’t want oligarchy, so I’m voting for Trump.”
          brb — must go duct tape skull together before head explodes.

      • Gary Garloo

        I want a woman to be president more than anyone. Just not that woman. she has a long history of bad decision making. No jobs because of her NAFTA, and once she pushes the TPP through, America will become Mexico part 2. (economically) 1% wealthy class, 99% poor.

        • King of America

          The job losses from NAFTA are so small they can’t actually be quantified; it is responsible for less than 1% of annual job turnover. In the decade following its introduction, the US gained around 30 million jobs, some of them due to – oh noes! – NAFTA.

          And Hillary, of course, opposes the TPP. Not that the TPP in any way resembles what you conspiracy theory idiots think it does, anyway.

          None of that explains for one freaking second how you could possibly be dumb enough to think that Trump – an actual billionaire – would somehow not be governing exclusively for the 1%, or that Hillary – at very worst a moderate – would not be a responsible President.

          You are a cartoon.

          • Gary Garloo

            I guess that’s why she regrets it.. because it was so awesome.
            http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3705441

          • King of America

            I’m sure you imagine you just made a point, but for the life of me I can’t think why.

          • Gary Garloo

            Enjoy your Oligarchy

          • King of America

            Yes we should vote for Trump because otherwise we’d have an oligarchy. That is not at all a hilariously stupid thing to say.

          • Gary Garloo

            It’s not.. you’re too slow to understand. They chose a year ago that Clinton is their president. She’s been getting the same backing as the republicans for foreign interests, banks, wall street.. Oligarchy poster woman. The ONLY reason Trump is there, is to get everyone to vote for Clinton. THEY are giving us Oligarch option A, or Oligarch option B (he’s a racist, so booooo) They do not want Oligarch B.. So If THAT is my choice.. I’m going with the Oligarch the Oligarchs in charge don’t want. At least Trump spoke out against the War in Iraq.

            I’d prefer everyone get their heads out of their asses and pick the FDR New Deal Democrat Sanders… that they are spending a fortune trying to prevent. They are cheating at every turn. If we were all unanimous.. we could’ve brought back another great american era.
            But you retards are supporting the Clinton puppet
            .

          • Gary Garloo

            Just notice the effects of the TPP, the military “interventions” she starts, and the economic disparity under Clinton over the next 4 years, and remember me saying “Don’t blame me.. I wanted Sanders.”

          • thenearesthippie

            “But I didn’t get him so I said fuck everybody it’s all about me me me! Oh no I messed my diaper. Mommy!”

          • thixotropic jerk

            I think your conspiracy theory juice just fell into that bucket of haterade you’ve been slurping, duuuuuuuuude! Slow the F down already with your AMAMZINING INFORMATION about how all of us are retarts for not buying into the bullshit you are spewing from your Mom’s basement, jeez!

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJLDF6qZUX0

          • King of America

            Ah yes, all those votes should be ignored because they aren’t voting the way you’ve decided they should.

          • Biff52

            It’s a good thing I don’t judge Bernie by his so-called supporters. I caucused for Bernie and will support him to the end, but your form of suicide makes me so goddamned stabby I can’t stand it. Or you. I can’t stand YOU.

          • SeeTrain65

            ^^^^^
            Dok: Quick question, is the R-word a violation?

          • Biff52

            WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK DOES THIS EVEN MEAN?

          • Gary Garloo

            “not quantified” I’m sorry that information approaches your brain like a fly to a bug zapper. And High Five to you for living somewhere unnaffected by income inequality and outsources.
            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lori-wallach/nafta-at-20-one-million-u_b_4550207.html

          • King of America

            I’m sorry, a HuffPo link will never, ever prove a thing (except that you are a cartoon).

          • Damian L

            Barack? Is that you?

          • King of America

            LOL I get it nobody could possibly have an issue with outright falsehoods unless they were actually somebody you don’t like.

            Or something? Who the fuck even knows any more.

          • Biff52

            But but but two of my USAmerican guitars and my USAmerican truck all came from Messico!
            (It’s true-Martin, Taylor and Dodge…)

          • urgelt

            She opposes TPP *today.* Not long ago she was fighting tooth and nail to get it through. She shifted because the optics were terrible. What’s to stop her from shifting again? Nothing.

          • King of America

            Yes she did do her job. I’m sure you think that’s a problem, but ?

        • thixotropic jerk

          Then follow your “conscience” and vote for who you really like, Cruz/iCarly because fer shure one of ’em is a womenz!!!

        • RAFREE

          Oh do fuck off. “Just not that woman” has been a b.s. remark for hundreds of years. You won’t like any woman who approaches that much power. She wasn’t POTUS when NAFTA was passed you dim wit.

          • Gary Garloo

            Nope. You fuck off with your uniformed opinion of her role in NAFTA.

            You guys need to stop attacking the messenger, and think more.
            Hillary is an oligarch that will do little to nothing to change things. But I will say she’s the best republican running.

          • snigsy

            “Uniformed opinion”? Um, your Freudian slip is showing, Gary.

          • Kavefish

            (With apologies to the source, but…)

            https://youtu.be/zxnA0BWxbKk?t=5s

        • Zippy W Pinhead

          Liz Warren, amirite? It’s the go-to answer for every one of you pathetic Bernbrats/ fake Bernbrats

        • kareemachan

          “Her” NAFTA?

          What batshit crazed history book from Texas did you read, anyway?

      • Gary Garloo

        Her actions trump her flippity floppity words
        http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2016

    • King of America

      All those wars she mongers. Non-stop mongering, day and night.

      • thixotropic jerk

        Monger, monger, monger! Don’t bother me, I’m mongering! Monger, monger, monger! Oh, monger, monger, monger!

        • Lizzietish81
          • thixotropic jerk

            I remember these guys! Thanks for sharing! Highly enjoyable infotainment! Mongols, gotta Monger, what can I say? Who knew Hillary was actually Time Traveling Genghis The Kahn?

          • data_ninja

            “Mongoltage”

            Brilliant.

      • sohrob

        Libya, Iraq, Honduras…Yup, diplomacy is not her forté.

        • thixotropic jerk

          Oh, our fav troll is back! Hi lil’ fella! How was your nap?

          • kareemachan

            Speak for yourself. It’s not MY favorite trollette….

        • King of America

          Ah yes, that war that never happened in Honduras, which Clinton started.

        • JMP

          Hey I thought this sockpuppet already said he was taking his ball and going home. What gives?

          They never stick the flounce.

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            they can’t even be honest about that

          • SullivanSt

            We should probably consider introducing a DKos-like “GBCW = ban” rule.

      • Gary Garloo

        Compared to Bernie. Yes.

        • King of America

          Bernie who voted to fund those wars, twice? Bernie who pulled strings to get the F-35 manufactured in his state? NRA Bernie? Is that the guy you’re talking about?

          • Vegan and Tiara

            “Crickets” from Gary Garloo. Bernie’s so pure, man, he’s totally NOT a politician who’d vote in a way the NRA likes JUST so he could get elected.
            I always hate when people say “Liberals are as bad as Conservatives” but some times I see that we can be almost as insufferable.

          • Lizzietish81

            And who voted to send nuclear waste from Vermont to a small town in Texas no one cared about?

          • King of America

            I seriously have nothing against Sanders, but people who think his record isn’t spotty in places, just like Clinton’s, are deluded.

          • urgelt

            NRA Bernie? Get real. You’ve been drinking Hillary’s Kool-aid.

            Bernie opposes holding gun manufacturers liable for people assassinating people. That’s pretty much identical to his stance on automobile liability. Product defects are one thing. Sue away. But if someone takes a perfectly good car and runs over a pedestrian, it ain’t the manufacturer’s fault.

            Guns are for hunting and shooting range fun and home defense. Those are legitimate purposes.

            You don’t need drum magazines or full auto or cop-killer bullets to satisfy those needs. Bernie opposes that shit. That’s why NRA hates his guts. But you can’t hold manufacturers liable for misuse of their products. If you did, nothing could ever be sold.

          • King of America

            That zooming noise you heard was the point going far, far over your head.

    • RAFREE

      Take responsibility for the harm you are doing! You’re not going to prevent Trump with this approach. What world do you live in?

      • Gary Garloo

        “I’m more afraid of Hillary’s war record.. than I am of Trump’s wall”
        -Susan Sarandon

        • Whale Chowder