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reese witherspoon election

This week, Bernie Sanders’s campaign manager, Jeff Weaver, warned that Hillary Clinton was in danger of destroying the Democratic Party through her ambition to become president.

Hillary Clinton washes up for supper.
Hillary Clinton washes up for supper.

Hillary Clinton, because she has been warned by her media coaches (which she has because she is a phony) not to actually drink the blood of rival campaign managers while anyone is watching, replied by laughing in an unhinged and possibly drunken manner.

Hillary Clinton: too ambitious to be president in 2006, too ambitious to be president today.

“Don’t destroy the Democratic Party to satisfy the secretary’s ambitions to become president of the United States,” Sanders campaign manager Jeff Weaver told CNN.

“We want to have a party at the end of this that we can unify,” he added.

[…]

Weaver said Sanders and Clinton should generally engage in a “tough debate” on issues, but he added, “Let’s not denigrate other’s supporters and tear the party apart.”

Funny story! Your Wonkette is officially neutral in the Democratic primary because THEY’RE BOTH FINE! THEY’RE BOTH GOOD! Shy and Dok Zoom (to my knowledge) are personally voting for Bernie. Evan and I are personally voting for Hillary. We try to be very fair! We don’t like when the candidates attack each other! When Sanders wins, we give him a golf clap and a hearty hale fellow well met! When Hillary wins OH MY GOD SHE IS A CORRUPT THIEF OF CORRUPTION AND THAT IS THE ONLY WAY SHE IS WINNING IS BECAUSE SHE STEALS ALL OF THE THINGS AND OH MY GOD SHE RAISED MONEY FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY DOES HER CORRUPTION KNOW NO BOUNDS?

HILLARY CLINTON WILL NOT BE IGNORED
HILLARY CLINTON WILL NOT BE IGNORED

Yes, I was dismayed to learn this week that raising money for the DNC and state parties is proof positive that Hillary Clinton is trying to steal the election … by trying to strengthen the party so she (OR BERNIE SANDERS!) can have a Congress she (OR HE!) can work with, and state legislatures that might possibly unfuck the districts Republicans have gerrymandered so grossly this decade.

I called my aunt, a grand dame superdelegate active in Democratic politics since the 1950s. Is it AT ALL possible the Hillary Victory Fund could be an attempt to influence superdelegates’ votes? My aunt screeched like a common Hillary Clinton. The short answer was no. Was it AT ALL possible I was maybe being naive? More short answer no. Was I correct in reading this as a positively Rovian smear like the Swift Boating of John Kerry, where you attack a candidate not for her weakness, but for her strength, thereby neutralizing it? Short answer: I am an insightful woman with an excellent grasp of history, or at least that was how I heard it. She may have just said “yes.”

In the meantime, calls to “harass” superdelegates who are voting for Clinton have not had excellent results so far, if your aim is to persuade people to actually vote for Bernie Sanders. If your aim is actually to be an asshole, then they’ve got that covered.

As for denigrating candidates’ supporters, I spent several hours this week fielding texts from a very close friend explaining that as a “bought and paid for” “Hillary shill” “one-percenter” “piece of shit” “centrist” “NOT A LIBERAL,” I am disowned. We can be friends though if I throw the weight of Wonkette behind Bernie instead of the corrupt crook who didn’t even come out for gay marriage until yesterday, and if I stop profiting off Bernie Sanders by selling these shirts, made by my loser husband, who supports Bernie but works for Wonkette, so he does not get a pass from either being a shill or being married to me:

wonkette bernie sanders bernie of assisi

Wouldn’t you like one? Short answer yes!

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  • MsAnthropesMr

    We still like you, Rebecca. You paid for our drinks one night.

  • MsAnthropesMr

    There’s no political debate like one that takes place via txt.

  • RoyalUglyDude

    I never understood the “too ambitious” trope. Does it mean Hillary only wants to use the presidency as a stepping stone for something better?

    • MsAnthropesMr

      ZORGO! RULER OF UNIVERSE!

      • Oblios_Cap

        Antichrist?

        • Nounverb911

          Obama already has that job….
          (according to the teabaggers).

          • nothingisamiss

            Nah, we’ll be moving on to a new antichrist soon.

          • Nounverb911

            I didn’t realize being ‘antichrist’ had term limits.

          • They had to be imposed because there are just so darned many antichrists.

          • Blank Ron

            Once they’re out of office they generally become lobbyists for the fire and brimstone industry.

          • Grokenstein

            Bill Clinton was going to “grab ur gunz and destroy teh wurld,” but then he walked away without doing it, and that was when the Big Thinkurz realized he was just the distraction, and the Kenyan Usurper was the real gunz-grabbing world-destroyer. But wait…!

    • Nounverb911

      Pope?

    • Callyson

      Now that you mention it, SCOTUS could be a thing.

    • Sakonyachen

      Trump! She wants to become Trump! The only thing really really very very more winning than being president!

    • Treg.Brown

      Oddly, I’ve still never heard a man described as being “too ambitious”.

      • Squirrel_t_robot

        My ambition, to be honest, is to have ambition.

        • LarryHoudini

          You can do it, Squirrel! You just have to . . . wait, “13 Movies Where They Really Did It”? Give me a few minutes.

      • arglebargle

        Us menfolk are passionate, wont take no for an answer types. Real go-getters, whateverthefuck that means.

      • nothingisamiss

        The Amy Schumer joke:
        A female comic onstage talks about sex, “Oh, she’s a sex comic.”
        A male comic pulls out his dick and shows the audience “He’s a thinker.”

      • freetofu

        Oh, horseshit. Google “Marco Rubio” and “overly ambitious.” There’s a huge group of voters who, as in 2008, prefer Hillary primarily because they belong to the same demographic as her, and the tiresome reiteration of the sexism charge is pure projection.

        • freetofu

          BTW, Hillary loves war. She really really does.

          • Takoma DC

            She’s scrappy! She’s a fighter! She loves being the under-dog! She’s shines when in “Come Back” mode.

            Didcha’ ya’ know she’s very proud of her “grassroots” campaign? AND she’s a New Yorker?

        • Treg.Brown

          I think Lil Marco was called overly ambitious for any political office because he never showed for up for work.

          • freetofu

            I don’t care why. It was a very recent example of a thing that happens.

          • Treg.Brown

            Ah. Thanks for your comment.

          • Callyson

            Not to mention that calling a former Secretary of State overly ambitious because she is running for President is a little ridiculous. And saying that the women who are voting for Hillary are doing so because she is also a woman is also hyperbolic FFS…

          • Treg.Brown

            Good morning Callyson :- )

          • Callyson

            Hi honey!

          • freetofu

            The guy warned her not to destroy the democratic party because of her ambitions to be president. Honestly I’m not exactly sure what he had in mind by “destroy the democratic party,” but it’s just not true that he said she was “too ambitious,” as people keep claiming.

          • Callyson

            Well, I don’t know how to read “Don’t destroy the Democratic Party to satisfy the secretary’s ambitions to become president of the United States” otherwise. The implication being that Hillary’s desire to be President is so strong she will take down the Party sure sounds like “too ambitious” to me.

            PS: HOW, BTW, would Hillary destroy the Party FFS?

          • Best I can tell, they are implying that Sanders supporters will bail. It’s like watching the villain in a cartoon hurt an innocent and then say it’s the hero’s fault for not caving into his demands.

          • Jen_Baker_VA

            Sort of sounds like blackmail, doesn’t it?

          • Jay Vaughn

            WITH PUSSY!!!

          • Takoma DC

            Pussy DOES have Power.

            No matter what the pricks may say.

          • cleos_mom

            But always get the money up front.

          • freetofu

            I’ll tell you who I have in mind by people who support Hillary because she’s a woman. The main one is this person named Sady Doyle who blocked me because I called her an idiot, I guess, and then I blocked her back because people keep on RTing her crap into my beautiful feed. I mean she never ever talks about anything in regards to this race except in terms of sexism. It’s inane.

            Also the people at Shakesville. Also Alice Bag in 2008. I mean I don’t want to diss Alice Bag, but still.

            But you see this clear divide along gender lines among older (but not younger) voters, and I’ve seen people like those above implying that the sexism of Bernie voters is the cause of this divide, but it seems much more likely to me that it is due to the sexual biases of her female geriatric supporters.

          • Jay Vaughn

            Those meanie mean head ladies and there “Stop being such a sexist ass, you ass.” It’s not fucking fair. :'(

          • Tallmutha

            I’m not geriatric (yet) and I identify as male, and I’m for Hillary partly, though not even close to only, because she’s a woman. (Bernie having no idea whatever how to accomplish what he’s promising is also a factor.) Go ahead, disparage me, but you’ll have to figure out a reason beside me being a bitchy old lady.

          • freetofu

            I don’t give a crap whom you or anybody else votes for. I’m just tired of smears agains Bernie supporters. Part of these smears is blaming male sexism for the gender divide, and I absolutely call bullshit on this. But getting Doyle out of my damn twitter feed should help…

            My impression of the Sanders phenomenon is that people are finally getting fed up with New Democrats, of which Bill Clinton was the primary representative, and Hillary the second (Obama, too, although I’m coming around to the impression that he’s, er, incrementally better).

            Nader (who was as wonky as one could ask) was a beneficiary of this, but sadly our system isn’t designed for 3rd parties, and anyway the time wasn’t ripe. Bernie has benefitted mainly from timing.

            My main objection to Hillary is in the area in which she claims the most expertise, and where the President has the most real power: the role of commander and chief. She has apparently spent her whole tenure as Sec of State pressuring Obama to be more aggressive militarily at every turn. As one who already has problems with O. in this regard, I find this disturbing.

            Yeah, I wish Sanders was slicker and better with details. I’d be happier if the left candidate benefitting from this moment had these qualities. But he’s got good, smart people on his side, as well as his own history of pushing things forward on the margins successfully, so I’m sure the details will be in place when the time comes. But, more important, he strikes me as less likely than Hillary to use his power to do something monumentally destructive.

          • Callyson

            Yeah, if you think supporting a candidate is due to “sexual biases,” I’d tell you to look in the mirror.

            And–really? You call someone an idiot and then get upset because she blocked you?

            Reply if you like, but I’m done here.

          • freetofu

            I’m not upset that she blocked me. I’m annoyed because others keep RTing her crap. But that’s under control now, unless they embed her tweets, I guess. Doesn’t seem to be anything that can be done about that.

          • freetofu

            I don’t care that she blocked me. I just get annoyed that that people keep RTin her into my damn feed. Hence the blocking back.

          • MissNomer

          • Sakonyachen

            The only time I felt justified telling someone that they were voting for Hillary because she is a woman was right after she told me I was voting for Obama because he is black. What a dumbass she was! I didn’t used to vote back then. Plus it was kinda racist, but in a really dumb way. I’m white after all. Which is ironically now why I am voting for Sanders according to the media. Can we just have all the primaries tomorrow and get back to ripping on Trump? I’m sick of this shit.

          • Callyson

            Also sick of this shit. Sorry that happened to you.

          • Takoma DC

            He was “overly ambitious” about never showing up.

          • Blank Ron

            I would agree. Didn’t he show up once or twice?

        • Aquaria

          The brown-ness of Rubio had more to do with that than his maleness.

      • OddMan

        “The noble Brutus Hath told you Caesar was ambitious:
        If it were so, it was a grievous fault, And grievously hath Caesar answered it …”

        But that is an old reference.

        • cleos_mom

          But of course there’s always the matter of how that scene ended.

      • Takoma DC

        They have but typically in politics that’s a compliment.

      • Gayer Than Thou

        I am a man who is too ambitious to be president. Too ambitious about getting a nap every day.

        • timpundit

          Type Zzzzzz personality, eh?

          • GodBlessRealAmerica!!

            TRUMP our Next President!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • timpundit

            lol, not even if exclamation points were votes, would he win.

          • GodBlessRealAmerica!!

            TRUMP Will win Big You have no clue, nobody wants crooked evil Hillary only Liberal lunatics like you! TRUMP WILL WIN & YOU WILL LOSE!!

          • timpundit

            Writing in ALL CAPS doesn’t persuade anyone…except people already dumb enough to be persuaded by Trump, of course.

          • GodBlessRealAmerica!!

            Crooked Evil Hillary will never be President you liberal scum!

            TRUMP will crush her like the wicked Democrackhead witch that she be!! TRUMP 2016!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • timpundit

            When God was hnading our the brais you were in line for thirds on exclamation points and all-caps, weren’t you?

        • Svarun

          I’m too ambitious for this shirt
          Too ambitious for this office
          So ambitious it hurts.

      • Lefty Frizzell

        Here’s a starter for you – Bobby Jindal, Marco Rubio, Tom Cotton, Paul Ryan, Rick Scott, Scott Walker, Sam Brownback, John Kasich and especially Ted Cruz are too ambitious.

        • Tallmutha

          Being “too ambitious” in the sense of not knowing your own limitations is different from being “too ambitious” as a character flaw per se. In the latter sense, it’s only ever applied to a woman, as somehow out of keeping with the feminine essence.

      • SadDemInTex

        Exactly!

      • Daisy

        Interestingly enough, neither have I.

      • proudgrampa

        Really. What a bunch of crap.

      • Svarun

        You don’t get it!

        Being ambitious while woman is clearly unconstitutional /s

      • Well … perhaps partially true, but uh, there isn’t a scarcity of literature about men being too ambitious. Fuck it’s been a staple of tragedy for 2500 years, though in this case fiction hasn’t been successful at instruction. Legalized mary jane will solve this. Trust me.

    • marxalot

      Hell, Jimmy Carter did it!

      • Mehmeisterjr

        Yeah, that fucking egomaniac! Just one term as President and his o’erweening ambition has led him to the dizzying heights of nailing load-bearing beams together. I hate to even contemplate what his next power-grab will be.

        • Creepoman

          Asshole will probably cure world hunger next – show-off!

          • Sardonicuss

            The small, devastated remaining population of horrific guinea worms tremble in terror!

        • First president, then nails, then mortise and tenon joints. Where in the fuck does this end? Gardening? What an asshole. I’m calling in to Alex Jones today.

      • SterWonk

        Back when Carter’s diagnosis was announced and we were mentally preparing ourselves to eulogize him, someone pointed out that Carter is probably the only person to have used the office of POTUS as the stepping-stone for bigger things. Then Jimmy went and ruined our plans by kicking his brain tumor in the ass! Thanks, Carter!

    • malsperanza

      It means she is female.

    • UN Secretary General. Oh wait, that’s Obama’s master plan.

    • Bartlet4Gallifrey

      It means she should get back in the kitchen.

    • cleos_mom

      Sanders, the male, is “assertive”; Clinton is “pushy.”

      Ambition is a good thing for Sanders. It’s a sign of pure evil in Clinton.

      And she probably doesn’t even make decent sammiches.

    • Takoma DC

      Astronaut.

  • Belasaurius

    We all have the Bernie or bust friends. I just keep my mouth shut.

    • nothingisamiss

      After living in the south I have Trump friends. Bernie or bust folks at least get a thin, tight smile from me.

      • kindness

        Curiously I’ve had old college friends say (on FB) they admire Trump but none have yet to say they’ll vote for him. Some will, I have no doubt. And on the other hand I’ve had to unfollow a few FB Berniebros because I got tired of being called the enemy even though I’ve promised to vote for and help elect whom ever the Democratic Party nominates.

  • Nounverb911

    So after all those years of being “Independent”, Bernie’s finally concerned about the Democratic Party?

    • nothingisamiss

      Or someone in his campaign claims to be. And that’s how we’ll retake the house and senate, right? Good thoughts and talking points?

      • Lascauxcaveman

        It’s fair to point out that like Obama, Bernie motivates a whole huge segment of the population who normally wouldn’t show up to vote, and thereby has the potential to turn a lot more seats in congress than Hillary. The trick is to keep these people in the game if Bernie loses the nom.

        • kindness

          That assumes facts that aren’t in evidence. Take Wisconsin’s recent primary. 4% of Hillary voters did not vote for the moderate running against the Supreme Court asshole Walker nominated. The rest did. 15% of Bernies supporters did not vote for the moderate because the only vote cast on their ballots was for Bernie. And when Bernie starts raising money for other Democrats, let me know.

          • Bartlet4Gallifrey

            Do you have a link to that? (I believe you, but if I say that on the Facebooks people will demand a source.)

          • kindness

            Yea, I read it this morning. Let me find it….OK, Steve Benen over at Rachael Maddow’s blog wrote a piece An Enormous Drop-off Hurt Downballot Dems in Wisconsin where he linked to a WaPo piece by David Weigel titled Why A Race Further Down The Wisconsin Ballot Rattled Dems. From that WaPo piece:

            “Bradley won the election, a surprise to Democrats. This
            morning, some progressives picked a culprit: voters who cast ballots for Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders (Vt.) and left the rest of their ballots blank. According to exit polling conducted by the independent group DecisionDesk and BenchMark Politics, perhaps 15 percent of Sanders voters skipped the Bradley-Kloppenburg race; just 4 percent of Hillary Clinton voters did the same.

            “There was an enormous drop-off,” said Brandon Finnigin of
            DecisionDesk. “There was a substantial number of voters in that voted for Sanders, then for nothing else.”

          • Bartlet4Gallifrey

            Thank you very much!

          • kindness

            You are welcome. and btw we have to appreciate the team spirit displayed when Hillary today said:
            “Look, I don’t know why he’s saying that,” Clinton said. “But I will
            take Bernie Sanders over Donald Trump or Ted Cruz any time. So, let’s
            keep our eye on what’s really at stake in this election.”

            I sure wish Bernie would tell his supporters the same thing.

          • Bartlet4Gallifrey

            I sure wish he were a Democrat.

          • Bartlet4Gallifrey
  • Callyson

    And that’s without even mentioning the “you’re not qualified!” “no, you’re not qualified!” kerfuffle. Fuck, I hate primary drama…

    • nothingisamiss

      Didn’t you think we’d be spared this cycle? I really thought I was going to be able to fully enjoy the implosion.

      • Callyson

        I knew this was coming and yet I am still disappointed by it. I hate Democratic infighting FFS…

        • SterWonk

          I am not a member of any organized party — I am a Democrat. — Will Rogers

          Ironically, the airport named in his honor is in Oklahoma of all places.

  • goonemeritus

    I still have gotten over the way Paul Tsongas was treated by the Clinton’s and the DNC so trying to appeal to my rational side is a bit of a heavy lift.

  • DoILookAmused2u ?

    “if your aim is to persuade people to actually vote for Bernie Sanders. If your aim is actually to be an asshole, then they’ve got that covered.”.

    Yes, they do. And the sad part is that I am half-convinced they believe their own smears.

    • Blank Ron

      That kool-aid is powerful stuff.

  • “Don’t destroy the Democratic Party to satisfy the secretary’s ambitions to become president of the United States,” Sanders campaign manager Jeff Weaver told CNN.

    “We want to have a party at the end of this that we can unify,” he added.””

    For christ steaks Jeff Weaver, STFU before you snatch Democratic defeat from the jaws of victory.

    What a dumbass.

    • marxalot

      An odd message coming from someone who was, in point of fact, not a Democratic politician or member of the Democratic Party until he decided to run for President.
      As Captain Renault said, comrades, I will take what comes.
      But it does raise some questions.

    • orygoon

      That’s the guy who just blamed my girl for ISIS.

      • Libya was hers, with a team up from France and friends.

        ISIS is more on whoever had the Syria folder during 2012-2013. Obama and Clinton were involved, but less directly I would think.

  • Belasaurius

    i’ve said previously that I’ll support whoever wins the nomination, but the Bernie Bros are making me think I may stay home election day.

    • orygoon

      I wouldn’t if I lived in a swing state, but I might leave the top of the ballot unchecked if he gets the nom. And it’s not just the bros; he’s the first Dem candidate in forever that I just can’t stand.

      • h4rr4r

        Can I ask why?
        Honestly I don’t need to like either of them. Can’t see a reason for that to be a consideration.

        • orygoon

          Sigh. Think of Obama campaigning to be a uniter. It didn’t happen, but not because of Obama and his temperament. Sanders is the opposite of that; if you don’t agree with him, he rudely dismisses you as an idiot or a sellout. Also, his populist agenda feels incredibly shallow to me–economically illiterate and dismissive of all the other things. Also, his historical temperamental background is combative (ranging from unsupportive to nasty), as in, with his own staff, with other Democrats–you know, with people he actually works with. I cannot picture a Sanders cabinet made up of people he has deep ties to (are there any?) and who also have deep expertise in their appointed positions. Well, he might appoint such people, but I don’t have any confidence that he would listen to them.

          IOW, I don’t think he’d be a good president at all. I would choose him only as a last resort, because yes, I’m a yellow-dog Dem.

          • h4rr4r

            At some point we need that, I think.
            Obama nor Hillary will be a uniter. The Repubs don’t want that. We will eventually need someone willing to call them on this shit. Bernie might actually be willing to do that.

            He has huge downsides, but so do we all.

            Hillary showed her major failing to me when she wanted $12 instead of $15. She was giving away the store before the negotiations even opened. You ask for $15 and settle for $12. If you ask for $12 you might get $10, more likely $9.

            As I have said I will vote for her, but I am doing the same as you.

          • LinGin

            Actually her $12 would have kicked in right now; I believe the $15 doesn’t go into effect until around 2020.

          • h4rr4r

            In what imaginary land was that?
            It had no legs, it went no where.

          • LinGin

            So? She supports a livable minimum wage. $12 would have been easier to push nationally than $15 right away but she’s still supporting raising it and if $15 can make it, then she supports it.

          • h4rr4r

            If you push for $12 you get $9. If you push for $15 you can get $12.
            She is admitting she would take less, the republicans will take note of that.

          • LinGin

            Some of those $15 wages don’t fully go into effect till 2022. Hillary is pushing for $12 right now.

          • h4rr4r

            And she will surely get her $9 in 2030.
            The point is aim high, you aren’t going to get what you ask for.

          • jmhm

            I’m not sure I understand your point. She wants to try to put money in peoples’ pockets today, with the attendant economic multipler which always kicks in when you give the most vulnerable people in our society money for necessities. Then more people get hired to sell them stuff, and some even make stuff to sell them in return for money. Not just that, but unlike rich folks, when poor folks get money, that money gets well and truly taxed.

            Instead, you want her to wait six years to try to put more money in their pockets and start to repair the economy, until after two midterms and a general have passed, because she could have asked for more money on the back end that you somehow know she’s not gonna get?

            I do not grasp the thinking here.

          • h4rr4r

            My point is she will give it away in the name of compromise. She is never going to get $12 now, or anything else. She will forever compromise until she gets nothing.

            Democrats love to compromise, note the republicans always get the better end of the deal.

          • jmhm

            So, I’m still not sure I understand. If they’re not going to give her what their constituents already want, how is Sanders going to accomplish anything?

          • h4rr4r

            He will actually try.
            Unlike Hillary and Obama. Who have in the name of compromise been giving the republicans everything they want.

          • jmhm

            I really don’t see how that follows. He got healthcare for millions of people. She got the minimum wage raised multiple times. Sanders is going to do better than that by telling congress to go fuck themselves?

          • h4rr4r

            Our President got a giveaway for insurance companies. The ACA is a plan from the heritage foundation. You are now required to buy a private for profit companies product. That is not giving you healthcare, unless your state expanded medicare and you qualify. That it was not expanded to all americans is rather telling.

            Yes, this congress needs to be told that.

            Don’t worry about it though, she will be president.

          • jmhm

            Yes, yes he did. And maybe it’s a shame that the candidate further to the left didn’t win in 2008. But now that there’s something out there, it’s an entitlement, and the Republicans aren’t going to be able to take it away, so we can fix it. You take what you can get and build on it.

            Trust me, I have over half a century of concentrated essence of fuck you built up, and it would be awesome to let it go. Just not awesome enough for the state of my spleen to balance the fate of the world.

        • orygoon

          And also, this may sound kind of stupid, but I’m married to a guy who is quite a lot older than I am. He’s older than Bernie. And while I love my husband, who is an incredible guy, these recent years have been harder. The world that he deals with keeps getting smaller. It’s a little hard to describe. I don’t care if you write it off as crass ageism, but living through it as I have, I feel strongly about it–old guy is too old to be President.

          • h4rr4r

            This I understand.
            I am watching my father go through this. He has become very oddly trusting and religious. The dumbest kind of scams can seem realistic to him at first.

            Yet, I also think Hillary is too old. She would be 72 at the end of her first term.

            I wish we would have an upper bound as well as a lower one.

      • kindness

        If I can hold my nose and vote for fucking DiFi out here in CA (multiple times) I won’t have any problem voting for Bernie even though his supporters are doing everything they can to stop me from doing so. You can too. At least you don’t have to vote for god damned Diane Feinsten every 6 years. Shit I feel dirty just admitting it.

        • Daisy

          I’m hoping she retires soon. I feel kinda icky about voting for her. I mean, I’ll do it, but I won’t like it. Ditto for Bernie. I don’t dare tell my friends that I don’t like him:millennials.

    • DoILookAmused2u ?

      I have lost total respect for the Candidate now too. I was writing it off to crazy campaign folks, but I am done with Sanders.

      I hope he is not nominated. If he is, I will be voting against a Republican most likely because I am not voting for him if he runs for dog catcher.

      • Squirrel_t_robot

        I am tired of Sanders, and his cult.

        He says nothing new, ever. He’s a one trick pony, which explains why the youngsters like him: kids love ponies.

        • chicken thief

          He said something new yesterday and it wasn’t good.

    • Squirrel_t_robot

      Not gonna stay home, and the Bern Bros. should STFU and remember how Ralph Nader gave America the W. presidency.

      • tomamitai

        With a lot of help from the Supremes.

        • chimichanga

          …and yet another reason to vote.

      • nothingisamiss

        I really want to scream at Susan Sarandon, Tim Robbins et.al “JUST BECAUSE YOU DIDN’T SUFFER IT WASN’T OK THAT W WON!”
        Can we talk about the displaced, the war dead, the republican governance, the supreme court?!

        • Steve13209

          HRC voted for the Iraq War and supported ousting Qaddafi, to create yet another power vacuum and the ensuing displaced refugees.

          • ryp

            She didn’t vote for the War directly, any more than Bernie did when he agreed to continue to fund it. Sanders himself also voted to allow the bombing of Kosovo. Quaddafi was threatening a massacre in Benghazi, it’s foolish to think that everything would be hunky dory had he been left in power.

        • jmhm

          Susan Sarandon opened a chain of yuppie ping pong clubs in affluent urban centers in partnership with a few young Masters of the Universe (one of whom, ironically enough, is dating Barbara Bush), so she’s doing nicely out of income inequality herself. It’s apparently only other peoples’ lives she’s fastidious about.

      • The Bern Bros should STFU and let Sanders and staff lead the Sanders campaign already. They’re a distraction from his campaign, and only help Rove.

    • chicken thief

      Please at least vote down the ballot. Staying at home never turns out well for Dems.

  • memzilla

    If you’re in the tank for Hillary, dear Editrix, I say… the tank needs more vodka!
    .

  • Nounverb911

    Needs more Jabberwockys

    • PubOption

      I nearly missed the dormouse in that picture.

  • Lance Thrustwell

    Rebecca, I’m sorry a close friend of yours has caught primary madness. Maybe they’ll apologize and come around.

    I’m a Bernie guy, but when it comes down to it, I’ll happily pull my lever for Hillary! Well, you know what I mean.

    • Lamashtar

      He said knowingly.

  • ClarkJoe

    No matter if you’re supporting Hillary, Bernie (or both!), can we all just agree on how awful Jeff Weaver is? Like what kind of person would keep him on as a campaign manager and what does that say about that person’s leadership and managerial style and how they would run a government? Wait, never mind, let’s just keep this focused on how awful Jeff Weaver is without resorting to passive aggressive insinuations about the ‘qualifications’ of a candidate.

    • He really is terrible, though. He even breathes weirdly – and loudly – while he’s talking. Drives me nuts to listen to him.

      • ClarkJoe

        Not ready for primetime. Kind of like the entire Sanders campaign. (Which is not the same thing as saying Sanders is not qualified for President. Saying that someone with Sander’s level of experience and expertise isn’t qualified for the presidency would be disqualifying.)

    • JaaaaaCeeeee

      The Sanders campaign is so awful and so Rovian. And that Jeff Weaver is the worst.

      Thank goodness we have Hillary Clinton saying she feels sorry for those lazy young voters who don’t even want to work 10 hours a week toward their degrees. Who don’t do their own fact checking or research. Who Bernie Sanders deliberately misleads, with his pie-in-the sky fantasies whose numbers don’t even add up.

      Thank goodness we have Hillary Clinton’s campaign manager demanding that Sanders change his tone if he wants more debates, and that the Sanders campaign needs a time out.

      • ClarkJoe

        Right. The good old “I know you are but what am I defense.”

        I don’t really get how that’s supposed to be persuasive, but I totally get the appeal for dealing with cognitive dissonance.

        Honestly though, Jeff Weaver is the worst. If he was Rovian, at least Sanders would be winning. He’s not only awful, he’s largely ineffective and a wast of Sanders’ time and money.

  • I don’t get the hate. I mean, yeah, Clinton is a bit closer to corporations and is more hawkish than I like, but compared to the GOP loons, she’s hippie Karl fucking Marx.

    • h4rr4r

      The problem with hillary is she is an old timey republican. Her being our candidate shows how far our party and political process has shifted to the right. I do not mean this in any bad way. Republicans used to be sane. A long time ago.

      I will vote for her.

      • SecludedCompound

        I look forward to the time when Hillary-brand democrats are the right wing opposition. With the GOP imploding, it looks like a very real possibility that money will line up with her brand of Democrat in the future, rather than the wingnut National Front we have going otherwise.

        That will be a good day for politics.

      • Bartlet4Gallifrey

        She’s not an old timey Republican though.

        • h4rr4r

          Sure she is.
          She is a center right candidate. Look around. She is about as far left as that noted liberal Nixon who founded the EPA.

          • Bartlet4Gallifrey

            She REALLY isn’t. Gawd. I’m so sick of this shit. Scott Lemieux did a lovely takedown of that claim. I need to find it.

          • h4rr4r

            Have fun doing that.
            She is center right in any nation but our own. Even a few decades ago she would have been here. She is anti single payer. She is against breaking up banks. She is for a tiny increase in minimum wage and against big one. She does not want to increase income tax on investments to the level of income. She voted for wars and the like.

            Where is the left here?

            She might not be a raving right wing moron like current Republicans, but remember they weren’t always like that. The overton window moved.

          • Bartlet4Gallifrey
          • h4rr4r

            That cherry picking nonsense?
            Please find a better argument.

          • Bartlet4Gallifrey

            This from the person using “She is center right in any nation but our own.”

          • h4rr4r

            Which is one part of what I said.
            I see you like cherry picking too.

          • MissNomer

            She is not anti-single payer, she is against throwing out the ACA to start the health care fight over. The ACA is a way to get to single payer. She is not against breaking up banks; she has said numerous times that she will do that. $12 right now is NOT a “tiny increase.” It’s a 65% increase. I have never heard her policy on income tax on investments, but you’re batting zero for accuracy otherwise, so got a cite? Bernie also voted for wars and the like, so that’s a wash.

            Here is the left: abortion rights, pay equity, the ERA, campaign finance reform, preventing campus sexual assault, climate change and clean energy, college costs and debt relief, criminal justice reform, disability rights, early childhood education, raising incomes, gun violence prevention, affordable health care, immigration reform, LGBT equality, paid leave, racial justice, Social Security and Medicare, voting rights, and women’s rights.

            Does that seriously look like a right wing agenda to you?

          • ryp

            She is actually to the left of the vast majority of Democratic presidents, including her husband.

          • Callyson

            Got curious and Googled. I assume you mean this? Good read!

    • tomamitai

      Richard Mother-fucking Nixon is hippie Karl fucking Marx compared to the GOP clown car!

      • ryp

        I don’t think it’s been proven that Nixon actually fucked his mother.

    • nothingisamiss

      The whole slam against her in the 90’s was “Oooh! Too liberal! Wants free healthcare and to help women!”

      • Brother Yam

        How awful!

  • h4rr4r

    There is a simply way forward for Hillary.
    Shutup about any gun stuff, and go pro weed. That will get the kids.

    • orygoon

      A sex change would probably help. There really is no way a man would get a lot of the kinds of shit she does.

      • h4rr4r

        A trans candidate? Never gonna get elected.
        Probably won’t even be allowed to use the bathroom.

    • Truthiness2U

      Do we want our kids having guns? Especially while high?

      I think not!

    • JaaaaaCeeeee

      Listen, Hillary Clinton has spent her whole life fighting for us. That’s why she tells us Bernie Sanders not only supports the NRA, but supports gun manufacturers against the parents of the murdered children of Sandy Hook.

      That’s why HRC tells us Bernie Sanders said womens issues are less important than the issues he wants the media to stop avoiding. That’s why Sanders is against free trade, a protectionist, against anything internationalist, wanted to delay President Obama’s Clean Power Plan, was against the auto bailout, funded hate group militias to hunt down immigrants along the border and put them into indefinite detention. HRC is fighting for us because she understands how to resolve TBTF, so she should tells us Bernie Sanders doesn’t, doesn’t do his homework, doesn’t understand the law, doesn’t understand how to get things done, and his numbers don’t add up.

      Hilllary Clinton is fighting for us and the Democratic party when she feels sorry for young voters, like those who just don’t want to work 10 hours a week toward their degrees. Like those who don’t do their research or listen to independent fact checkers in corporate media, who let themselves be deliberately misled by Sanders and his pie-in-the-sky promises that don’t add up.

      It’s because Hillary Clinton cares. Anyone who attacks her is just parroting right wing smears or sexist or both.

      • h4rr4r

        Poe’s law.

  • chimichanga

    This whole Evil Hillary nonsense might have good effect in the general. See – not too liberal. She might be the Goldilocks candidate even if somehow her vast experience is so completely discounted.

    I guess I’m no longer a REAL Democrat though I have worked on elections every two years since 1980. (and some locals)

  • Oblios_Cap

    Saint Bernie! We need a Jewish Christian saint.

    • The Wanderer

      Like Peter?

      • Pickwicknext

        Or Jesus?

        • proudgrampa

          Sure. Why not?

      • chicken thief

        No. I’m straight but you be you*!

        *the proverbial ‘you’, not you, TW.

      • tomamitai

        A more recent example would be St. Teresa, which upset some of the Jewishes.

  • calliecallie

    “…trying to strengthen the party so she (OR BERNIE SANDERS!) can have a Congress she (OR HE!) can work with, and state legislatures that might possibly unfuck the districts Republicans have gerrymandered so grossly this decade.”
    I have this same fantasy.

  • The Wanderer

    Saw this one coming in 2008.
    As the race tightens up, the two rivals start to snipe at each other in order to get the voters to choose between them. Sort of like feuding parents will try to get the kids on ‘their’ side. Not too good for party unity post-convention.

    • Oarboar

      McClatchy had a poll showing 25 percent of Sanders supporters wouldn’t vote for Clinton. Which is already down from 33 percent a couple of weeks ago.

      Frankly, neither number impresses me: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/06/exit-polls-half-of-clintons-supporters-wont-back-obama/

    • ManchuCandidate

      “I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat.”
      -Will Rogers

      • Pickwicknext

        Achieving agreement in the Democratic party: like herding blind, feral cats to perform La Boheme.

        • Jus_Wonderin

          That would be awesome, though.

          • Msgr_Moment

            Does anybody have tix? Must have!

        • proudgrampa

          Oh, Mimi, don’t leave me, Mimi!

    • LinGin

      Hell, I saw this coming in 1968 when the holier-than-thou purists stayed home and we got Richard Fucking Nixon instead of Hubert Humphrey. Which is why this campaign is bringing on horrible flashbacks and why I’m going off the rails nuts at Sanders supporters who denigrate her.

    • tomamitai

      Sort of like feuding parents will try to get the kids on ‘their’ side.

      Who’s gonna give me a new bike and a trip to Disneyland?

    • Tom Taylor

      But…she started it…..or vice versa ;)

    • MissNomer

      At least Hillary is careful not to say anything that can’t be walked back.

  • nothingisamiss

    My God, how lurve you, Rebecca.

    • proudgrampa

      Have I told you about when I met Rebecca (yes, I have)?

      I introduced myself, and then she said, “So how the fuck are you, proudgrampa?”

      Love at first sight.

  • Suttree

    Lizzietish likes Hillz, and I prefer the Bernz, but we get along just fine. I guess what I’m saying Rebecca, is that you should sleep with your friend (if this friend is a woman).

    • AntiDerpomeme

      Why be so sexist? Well, except Shy might mind either way…

      • Suttree

        I am only relating how it works for me! And I was fantasizing. Sorry.

    • Lizzietish81

      Well I didn’t know that before. I need to seriously rethink this relationship now.

      • Suttree

        Fine then. No wonkette T-shirt for you! Thhhhppppppbbbbbttttt!!!

        • Lizzietish81

          Tell me you don’t want to see me in a tight t shirt

          • Suttree

            I don’t want to see you in a t-shirt. ;)

  • ManchuCandidate

    It’s not unlike the PUMAs that a certain Preznit Black Bart of Rock Ridge had to subdue/charm after beating Hedley LaClinton back in the heady days of 08.

    http://www.screeninsults.com/images/blazing-saddles-old-lady-pie.jpg

    Maybe it will take an another apology pie delivered by Aunt Bern at midnight to patch things up.

  • orygoon

    Whoa your link to AmercaBlog; re: Spencer Thayer, that is one very terrible person.

    • Lamashtar

      He comes across as a fake, twitter history notwithstanding. But he’s affecting the Dems process regardless.

  • chimichanga

    St. Bernard – Big dog. Big bark.
    Hills – Bulldog tough.

  • Sardonicuss

    Obviously, the various editors here are not reading enough Hulker…or they would know the true evil that is “Hellery”!

  • SayItWithWookies

    I don’t get why this is even a thing — especially given how downright awful the Republican candidates are. Is my favorite candidate running? No. Are we getting free weed with every abortion anytime soon? No. Or paid parental leave? Or a 50% top marginal tax rate? No, no, no. I’m voting for whichever Democrat wins the nomination anyway.

    • chimichanga

      You had me at free weed.

      • Lascauxcaveman

        Better go back and check the fine print, dude.

        • chimichanga

          Oh man. Harshed my buzz.

    • Takoma DC

      Most Bernie supporters, like myself, are voting that way as well. I switched from Independent to Dem so I can vote for Sanders in my primary. However, I will vote for whoever wins the nom.

  • AntiDerpomeme

    Oh D’s, let us not be assholes like common GOP thugs/voters, eh? I’m all for passion in backing one candidate or another, but when the ranker devolves into “Hillary is impure and history’s greatest lying monster” or “Bernie is uninformed and divisive,” I start to worry we are no better than the other side. And I do know we are better, so cut this shit out.

    • DoILookAmused2u ?

      The uninformed part is being earned.

      My operating hypothesis for a long time on why he didn’t want to talk about CFMA and its role in the financial crisis was… that he knew, but was just avoiding bringing it up because ooops.

      Now, I think he has deluded himself after reading his responses to simple questions.

      • tomamitai

        Yeah, those fucking commies in teh California Farmers’ Markets Association are to blame for the crisis! And don’t forget Jimmy Carter for forcing the banks to loan to unqualified minorities and Barny Frank for running a homosexican prostitution ring out of his congressional office!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111!!!!!

      • AntiDerpomeme

        To be honest, I can’t totally disagree with you. He’s not as sharp on many of the issues as he needs to be and H comes off as far more informed and capable. Doesn’t mean Bern is a complete idiot, though (compared to the complete buffoonery of Trump or the smarmy sell-out pandering of Oily Ted). Barring some sort of huge turnabout, I don’t see Bernie as the nominee anyway, but if he were, he’d need to heavily lean on the guidance of somebody like Warren to set him straight.

        • DoILookAmused2u ?

          Warren makes mistakes sometimes when she steps out of her comfort zone, but she self-corrects.

          People who learn self-correct. People who already know everything do not.

  • Lascauxcaveman

    Although I support Bernie over Hillary, for all the usual reasons, I’m not going to fault her for ability to play the political game well and effectively. Anyone who does so looks kinda stoopid. I mean, whadya expect?

    My biggest fear is the Bernie purists who are pure as the driven snow, will be too pure to sully themselves on election day and will opt out entirely of this dirty game once our man is outnumbered, with votes.

    • Sardonicuss

      My anecdotal observations from less civilized sites, suggests that all of them will be “voting for Trump if Bernie doesn’t win”…damn it!! They will also be removing all their toys from the sandbox and telling my mother on me!
      Actual observations put that closer to <4%, and I think that is probably high.

    • h4rr4r

      I hope they remember Nader giving GWB the white house.
      I don’t think they are old enough for that though.

      • jqheywood

        I really don’t think the BernieBros ™ are all that young. The ones I know are all around my age (55) or older. YMMV

        • jqheywood

          Oh, and ALL the ones I know are male. The younger pro-Bernie folks in my acquaintance are all “I like Bernie, but Hillary is infinitely better than any GOP alternative.” So there’s that.

          • Biff52

            The only bona fide Bernie “Bro” I know is a mid-50’s female. That she is also my precinct captain and a state delegate is somewhat disturbing.

        • Takoma DC

          I’m 44. Husband is 48. Our 2 daughters support him (we did not proselytize – they reached their own decisions) and they’re 23 and 26. My brother is 34 and cousin 32 – both are Sanders supporters.

          I’ve been a Sanders volunteer since October. First in northern VA, now in Dc suburbs of Maryland. What I immediately noticed in NoVa is that young African Americans are usually for Sanders. Whereas older (55+) AA are for Clinton.

          In MD suburbs of DC and my upper NW neighborhood, I’m seeing my family dynamics playing out. Entire families are for Bernie. A very small few are split Clinton-Sanders. I met 2 (husband & wife) registered D both voting for Trump (at least in MD primary)! I’ve met exactly1 Bernie supporter who told me he refuses to vote for HRC and will vote Trump. He was in his early 60’s, affluent, white AND a Californian (lives in Bay area – born & bred there). I think the notion of most Sanders supporters doing the same extremely small.

        • h4rr4r

          The ones I know are sub 30.

      • Takoma DC

        Some of us are old enough to remember. Some of us were Nader supporters.

        • DemmeFatale

          Thanks a lot.

          • Takoma DC

            Oh boo hoo. Even the author of this article was a Nader supporter. Just keep giving yourself up votes. Apparently it gives you some sense of power.

          • DemmeFatale

            I respect you enough to tell you that you are totally wrong about the up vote thing.
            (Actually it does happen once in awhile when I check my discus account, cause I’m no tech genius.)
            And now I’m done.

          • Takoma DC

            Oh my goodness. You’re hilarious! Try to have a nice night.

      • Villago Delenda Est

        There are a lot of people who wave away Nader’s role in facilitating the War in Iraq through Nader’s actions in 2000.

    • Pickwicknext

      If there is a better game politician out there than Hillary, I would love for someone to point them out. Hillary has had more shit flung at her in the last 30 years than a zookeeper at the monkey house

      • Msgr_Moment

        Or one of the DC Madam’s girls, when rented by Cruz.
        ALLEGEDLY!

        • Suttree

          David Vitter libelz!

    • Joe Beese

      Hey, I also support Bernie over Hillary, for all the usual reasons! And even after Hillary finishes beating Bernie fair and square (or at least what passes for it in Wasserman Schultz’s DNC), with votes, I’m still not going to vote for her!

      Because remember all those times we said that any Republican who voted for the Iraq War deserved to be run out of politics and never listened to again because of how cowardly and/or stupid they had proven themselves to be? As sort of the least we could do on behalf of the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians whose lives were violently cut short because of our “dirty game”?

      I think that should apply to Democrats too. Because fairness and stuff. And I don’t think it’s “pure as the driven snow” or “holier than thou” to feel that way.

      If it makes you feel any better, I live in Utah. Hillary was going to have to win without me in any case.

      • Lamashtar

        Actually, I hear Utah will go blue rather than vote for Trump.

    • Takoma DC

      According to this article, and most of the comments – Bernie is sullying himself. So that’s another way in which he and HRC are similar.

      • DemmeFatale

        Thanks for providing a sample of what we can expect to see from Bernie supporters in the coming days.

        • Takoma DC

          Oh you poor overly-sensitive creature. Always taking yourselves and your candidate so seriously. I had no idea that a politician could be perceived as pure, ethical and moral? Everything I’ve learned in my 44 years has taught me the complete opposite of the profession. Those who wish to succeed in politics, have to get their hands dirty. There’s no way around the filth in U.S. politics.

          FYI: It will help you a lot in life to learn to cultivate a sense of humor. My comment was snark ffs.

          • DemmeFatale

            If your comment really was snark, that was all you had to say.
            I can be a little slow sometimes about sarcasm.
            However, I don’t need to be schooled about politics.

          • Takoma DC

            You must be on the wrong blog then. Have a nice day!

    • SecludedCompound

      I would say a majority of my friends, who I consider to be very intelligent, principled people, refuse to vote for her at this point, due to her previous (and, some suspect, current) stances. I’m not sure that they’re wrong to do this.

      Acting like it’s not an issue or dismissing concerns about dragging the party back tot he right after we’ve fought to exorcise the Blue Dogs from our process for ten years seems, well, dismissive.

      • Jen_Baker_VA

        Fine, but show up for the down ticket. Burn the whole thing down if I don’t get what I want is no way to go through life.

        • SecludedCompound

          Well, I certainly disagree with your summation of what I said: some people simply aren’t willing to vote for people who have consistently done things that are against the morals and political potions of those people.

          I made no statements about my intentions; I’m simply saying that I think “you must vote for Clinton because Republicans are super bad” isn’t exactly the height of moral courage that some folks seem to think it is, and it certainly isn’t anything to build a moralizing grandstand on.

      • DemmeFatale

        I wonder what they’ll do when Bernie tells them to vote for her?
        They both know how politics works, (and many of his supporters don’t understand this).

    • tomamitai

      I will walk through driving snow to vote for whoever gets the Dem nom in November, but will walk a little faster if it’s Bernie.

    • Takoma DC

      Exactly. This is politics, pure and simple.

  • Skwerl King

    I miss President Biden already.

    • ClarkJoe

      If the rumors in DC are to be believed (they seldom are), you won’t be missing him for long…

      • SterWonk

        ??!?

        • ClarkJoe

          oh, usual inside the beltway gossip… impeding indictment, stealth campaign, contested convention…To me it sounds way more like House of Cards fan-fic, but this year has already been so weird, so who can tell…

    • Msgr_Moment

      Steak and blowjobs for everybody!

  • TheGrandWaz00
  • Angela Ruzzo

    I am frankly torn between Hillary and Bernie. On the one hand, I’ve been waiting 40 years for this benighted country to accept the fact that a National Health Service is the only rational and humane alternative to the insane medical/insurance/pharmaceutical industrial complex. On the other hand, I’ve waited 50 years for a woman to be elected President, and Hillary is a fine choice in every way, not just because she’s female. At this point I’d vote for Satan himself if I knew it would keep Trump or Cruz out of the White House. At least Satan offers you a deal – you get to hex your neighbors and kill their cattle in return for selling your soul, which is a better deal than the Republicans are offering.

    • Pickwicknext

      Also, sexxay. The pics from the North American summits would burn the cameras

  • TheBidenator

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: BernieBros are our Paultards and should be treated as such….

    • Villago Delenda Est

      No shit. They’re very Paultard like. Fuck them. With votes.

      • Pickwicknext

        Ooo, papercuts!

  • Joshua Norton

    [Clinton does something, anything, vaguely resembling the usual strategy of a candidate in a very competitive campaign]

    All the BernieBros on my FaceSpace page: SHE’S PANICKING!!!

    • sockbunny08

      Yesterday was a big day for that, eh?

    • Takoma DC

      Make no mistake about it – she is panicking. She’s lost all but 1 of the recent primaries.

      People still value “discussions” on Facebook?

      • jmhm

        I don’t know why she would. She’s still ahead moving into the primaries in delegate-rich states which restrict primary voting to registered Democrats and don’t allow – let’s say fervent advocate interaction? – inside the polling place. She does well under those conditions.

        • Takoma DC

          Maybe I’m wrong but when she yelled at GreenPeace folks protesting at 1 of her events it did look pathetic and desperate. She neither looked or sounded presidential.

          Maybe she was just having a bad day.

          • jmhm

            Or maybe she was legitimately tired of the Sanders campaign lying about her record. Of the two, I think she’s handling the situation the most gracefully. Granted, she’s almost certainly going to win, so she can afford to.

          • Takoma DC

            How was what Greenpeace people saying a lie? How do you know they’re Sanders’ operatives?

          • jmhm

            I have no idea what Ms. Reznick-Day’s true story is, although I don’t blame Clinton for assuming that she was connected to the protesters who were not allowing her to speak earlier in the rally, since her issue was a major talking point for the Sanders campaign that very week, by some remarkable coincidence. And since Greenpeace’s analysis of Ms. Clinton’s contributions is extremely misleading, and they’ve ignored similar contributions to Sanders, I don’t know that I assume she was wrong.

            http://www.npr.org/2016/04/06/473261522/fact-check-more-on-hillary-clinton-and-fossil-fuel-industry-contributions

          • DemmeFatale

            Maybe it looked pathetic to you, but to me, it just looked like she was tired of swatting this particular fly.

            Bernie may be doing better than she expected, but panicking?
            No.

          • Takoma DC

            Ok.I’ll play Semantics 101. She looked unable to handle the stress of campaigning for president.

      • Truthiness2U

        No, actually she’s won most of the primaries in the race, and especially the closed ones. She’s lost all, but two of the caucuses, and will lose one of the last two left -WY, in a few days.

        But then comes closed/semi-closed primaries in NE, and Bernie will be the one that probably has a string of losses. Happened in ’08 that Obama had a stretch of losing 6 out of 9, until he did well again in the Potomac primaries. Same will happen with Bernie in the NE. And like then, Obama’s lead was too much for Hillary to ever overcome, same with Bernie now.

        The math, it berns.

        • Takoma DC

          Maybe your predictions are correct. She said she was winning the White House in ’08. Maybe this time she will.

          Girls like I understand maths and predictions. A lot of predictions have been incorrect this election cycle. Sanders has been counted out many times this primary season. And yet, here we are.

          • puipui

            Wow, “Mrs.” Clinton. Not Senator Clinton, not Secretary Clinton, not even just Clinton, but “Mrs.” Clinton. Sanders is just Sanders, but Clinton has to be “Mrs.” Clinton here. That’s nice, that’s very not sexist at all.

          • Takoma DC

            Wow. You’re a real asshole. I’m a lazy typist who’d been sanding & refinishing furniture all day yesterday. My hands hurt then & now. 3 letters is ez 4 me. I usually use her last formal title without ‘Madam’ or HRC (again 3 letters) – is that ok w/ u? There’s more than 1 Clinton active in politics. I don’t usually call either politician by their first name either. Even though most call him, ‘Bernie’ I usually don’t. And frequently use ‘Mr.’ Sanders. I also, just like high paid journalists sometimes write, ‘Mr. Obama.’ I’ve never hear her staffers refer to her as ‘Ms. Clinton’ but have frequently heard them, as well as high paid journos like MSNBC’s Andrea Mitchell and Chris Matthews refer to Hillary Clinton, as ‘Mrs.’ Clinton. I’m a female. I don’t refer to fetuses as “unborn persons” as HRC does.I also don’t believe as HRC does that when a woman choses to have an abortion there’s a lot of pearl clutching because it’s simply not true. I’m a progressive feminist. Yeah wow, Fuck u & fuck you.

          • puipui

            I’m sorry that I’m an asshole for calling you sexist when you were being sexist. Sadface.

          • Takoma DC

            No no. Please permit me to apologize. You’re not an asshole. You’re a cunt. A stupid cunt to be precise.

            If Hillary Rodham did not wish to be addressed as “Mrs. Clinton” then she would not have legally changed her name when she married William Jefferson Clinton.

            Please resume fucking yourself with withered salted rat dicks.

          • puipui

            You seem to have a lot of anger in you. And also sexism again, alas. :(

  • Msgr_Moment

    As for denigrating candidates’ supporters, I spent several hours this week fielding texts from a very close friend explaining that as a “bought and paid for” “Hillary shill” “one-percenter” “piece of shit” “centrist” “NOT A LIBERAL,” I am disowned.

    You can be my friend, Becca, darlin’.

    • Mine too. I’ve already been disowned by pretty much my entire Facebook friends list for suddenly being not a “real progressive”.

      • zanzibar_buckbuck_mcfate

        It’s so HARD, right? Like, it’s a real problem in my community. And to a certain degree, my family. It’s created distance between a lot of us.

        • It’s not fun. I’m sick of arguing with people I mostly agree with. Arguing with Republicans is way more fun.

        • Lamashtar

          Ha! My spouse leans Republican (albeit a liberal one). It makes me crazy that he’s willing to sell my civil rights so that he can make more money (for his family, sigh).

  • Lizzietish81

    I really have lost a lot of respect for Sanders over the last couple of weeks.

    • NoGoodnik

      His Clinton isn’t qualified to be president is really really disappointing and beneath him.

      • DemmeFatale

        It is so blatantly untrue.

        Politics is a dirty, dirty, game.
        I think some of his supporters didn’t really grasp that.

    • Callyson

      Same here. When he was pushing Hillz to the left and focusing the nation’s attention on economic inequality and Wall Street’s misdeeds, he was being constructive. Now he’s just being destructive.

      It may have been inevitable that this was going to happen in a primary campaign, but it’s still disappointing.

      • MarkM

        No, I’m sorry, but this attitude is part of the problem. Once something is blithely accepted to be “inevitable”, it becomes inevitable.
        Of course part of the problem is that you have so many voices that purport to speak for the candidate that it becomes nearly impossible to filter out what is an official position or statement and what is rhetoric issuing from a PAC or overzealous supporters.

        • Callyson

          Well, I don’t think I was “blithely” accepting the infighting to be inevitable.

          And while I get your distinction between Bernie and the Bernie Bros, it was his campaign manager who said Hillary isn’t qualified, not some random supporter. Sucks that this happened, but unfortunately it really is not surprising.

          • MarkM

            I don’t disagree-see my comment upthread. I was trying to make a broader point about how political campaigning has devolved. I don’t suppose that it is possible to stuff the genie back in the bottle any more, unfortunately.

          • Callyson

            Oh, I agree with your broader point, absolutely. I just hope we can unite and win in the fall FFS.

          • MarkM

            I’m rooting for you guys-but I will keep the fridge stocked with cheese for a certain potential refugee if things go wrong…

          • Lizzietish81

            Also, Bernie fed into the lies from Greenpeace

      • Lizzietish81

        Early on I said I didn’t think he could take the pressure of being president and it looks like I was right.

      • Takoma DC

        I’m pretty sure Clinton called Sanders unqualified several months back? She has consistently questioned his experience and his ideas and his number crunching. Maybe I’m wrong in interpreting her constant references to his qualifications and ideas, or lack-therof and ‘pie in the sky’ proposals, but that’s what it sounds like to me.

        And that was exactly how it sounded to me when Clinton used the same critical rhetoric against Obama in ’08.

        • Bemused

          The ideas and the number-crunching. She didn’t have concerns about his governmental experience but did about his foreign policy credentials. TBF, it’s not hard to have less foreign policy experience than the former Secretary of State.

          • Takoma DC

            True. And as I already mentioned Clinton used this very same strategy against Obama BEFORE she served as SoS.

          • Bemused

            Obama was legit inexperienced at both national and international governmental politics, but he’s very smart and we were lucky. Obama was really really quick at getting up to speed. Hillary didn’t have a lot of elected experience at the time, but she’d been in the governmental sphere at all levels for a long time. Bernie’s been in politics forever and he seems to have good intentions, but he’s been pretty mono-focused and he doesn’t seem to widen that focus well.

        • zanzibar_buckbuck_mcfate

          She’s never said he’s unqualified, but she’s questioned his readiness. Which is appropriate. Hell, he can question her readiness or fitness, but to flat out say she’s not qualified is divisive and…. wrong. Trump is unqualified. Totally different thing.

        • JaaaaaCeeeee

          Hillary Clinton never said that Bernie Sanders is unqualified for the presidency.

          Even though WaPo’s headline was “Clinton questions Sanders qualifications”.

          WaPo gave Sanders 3 pinocchio’s for saying, “She has been saying lately that I am not qualified to be president”.

          Clinton never said Obama was unqualified, she just repeated endlessly that McCain and she have decades of experience to bring to the presidency and Obama has one speech he gave in 2002.

          Bernie Sanders is a loser, sad.

    • timpundit

      Same here. And my Bernie friends are pissed at me for finally saying that I do not like him calling her unqualified. I touched a nerve with that one, but goddammit it’s true.

    • UncleTravelingMatt

      Yup. I was willing to give him a pass for some of his more obnoxious followers, but this is not the result of some douchebag doing his own thing. Sanders okayed this. Not ambitiously, though.

    • zanzibar_buckbuck_mcfate

      Gah, me too! I have been working hard to get my unity on and be all “hey we’re all good here” but his attitude and behavior over the last few days are alarmingly uncool, tacky, rude, illogical, slimy. His campaign has always been like that (IMO) but to see it coming from the man himself makes me question my longerm appraisal of him as pretty all right.

    • Gayer Than Thou

      I can live with that. It’s more upsetting to lose respect for actual people I actually know.

  • NoGoodnik

    I wish all corrupt politicians were corrupt like the Clintons are.

    — Clinton Development Initiative staff in Africa train rural farmers
    and help them get access to seeds, equipment and markets for their
    crops.

    — Clinton Climate Initiative staff help governments in Africa and the
    Caribbean region with reforestation efforts, and in island nations to
    help develop renewable energy projects.

    — Staff at the Clinton Health Access Initiative, an independent,
    affiliated entity, work in dozens of nations to lower the cost of
    HIV/AIDS medicine, scale up pediatric AIDS treatment and promote
    treatment of diarrhea through life-saving Zinc/ORS treatment.

    — Clinton Health Matters staff work with local governments and
    businesses in the United States to develop wellness and physical
    activity plans.

    • sockbunny08

      Peeyure korrupshun, that.

    • tomamitai

      So, you’re saying the Clintons do better work for humanity in the private sector than in office?

      • Lizzietish81

        CAPITALISM WORKS!

      • MissNomer

        So does Jimmy Carter. So will Barack Obama. See, when you’re not president, you don’t have to fight Congressional obstruction or compromise with the rightwingnuts.

    • h4rr4r

      This is like giving Gates a pass based on his current good works.
      Nope, the dude made his money illegally and at the cost of our economy. Spending it will does not erase the past.

      Not that I think Clintons are that corrupt, just pointing out the flaw with that logic.

      • NoGoodnik

        The foundation was a charity entity that was started after Bill’s presidency. It wasn’t funded by the Clintons. I don’t even think that they’re trying to make up for past misdeeds.

        My point is that a donation to the Clinton Foundation really cannot buy access to the Clintons, especially influencing the secretary of state.

        The Clintons, I’m convinced, are interested in doing good and helping the world be a better place. I think they have taken advantage of their positions for their own gain — funny how politicians come out of office with more money than they went in with — but that they are giving a lot to the world. The Clintons are responsible for Big Pharma agreeing to allow generic anti-AIDs drugs being distributed to developing countries. That is the biggest accomplishment in controlling HIV made yet.

        • h4rr4r

          I am sure the clintons are. I was attacking the argument not them.

          As opposed to Gate’s foundation which requires preventing generics from being produced to get the “free” drugs they are handing out.

  • Antonin Dvorak

    Shy and Dok Zoom (to my knowledge) are personally voting for Bernie. Evan and I are personally voting for Hillary.

    I guess that makes Kaili Joy the tiebreaker.

    • Sardonicuss

      Whose the babby voting for? America wants to know!

      • rebecca

        she watched Bernie’s whole speech the other night, at least until the campaign finance part. (She’s heard it before.) She likes him. She waved at the TV.

        • AntiDerpomeme

          D’awww!

        • Sardonicuss

          Well, he does look like a skinny-er..less beardy Santa Clause!

    • Joshua Norton

      Dude, that should be

      . Just sayin’

    • hendenburg2

      What about Volpe and Pinkham?

      • Pinkham’s Law

        We forgot Snipy, as well!

        • Pickwicknext

          Snipy’s got too much trauma from having to review the Fuggar show

          • Jen_Baker_VA

            I like that typo

    • Pinkham’s Law

      Ubertrout’s part of the “family” now, also too.

    • Rick Hill

      The rest of the staff is voting for Nader….

      *ducks*

    • Lascauxcaveman

      I guess that makes Kaili Joy the tiebreaker.

      OMG, you’re calling her Anthony Kennedy? Them’s fightin’ words.

    • SterWonk

      Don’t forget about Snipy and Pinkham. Or maybe they’re not full-time employees, so they don’t count for this contest?

  • chimichanga

    I’ve been betwixt and between Foxbot in-laws and Bernie-maniacs on my side of the family. It’s nice to be “out” on Wonkette.

  • TheBidenator

    Ideologues cannot see the others persons point or argument or even that they have a point or an argument to being with. They cannot understand that some people simply don’t support their candidate or views but are not their enemies, either. Ideologues also rarely see a problem with doing anything to win because the end justifies the means. Ideologues also decide that they and only they really ‘get it’ and anyone who doesn’t share their fervor is a fake, a phony, corrupt or some other malady and therefore an enemy.
    In short, this is what’s going on and yes I know far from all Bernie supporters fit that description but a truly distressing amount does so cut the shit, guys because YOU’RE the ones tearing the party apart. The candidates have been far more civil to each other (especially compared to 2008) than supporters have been…

    • tomamitai

      I’m rubber, you’re glue…

    • DemmeFatale

      Your first paragraph is a great description of Drumpf and Cruz supporters also.

  • Pinkham’s Law

    I am sorry you’re undergoing that emotional blackmail Not cool, close friend of ‘Trix, not cool at all.

  • Jay Vaughn

    How dare those damn dirty super delegates ignore the will of the vote, by listening to the voters.

    • Steve13209

      Superdelegates, by definition, are not beholden to the will of the vote.

      • Jay Vaughn

        The article linked to was bemoaning that the superdelegates aren’t switching from Clinton to not “defy democracy”, even though most people voted Clinton.

  • hendenburg2

    “Let’s not denigrate other’s supporters and tear the party apart.”

    Says the guy who’s candidate just called Hillary “unqualified to be president.”

    • Villago Delenda Est

      /eyeroll

      Bernie, you’re transforming in to the Ralph Nader of 2016. Stop it right now.

    • tomamitai

      I could never respect the opinion of someone who uses “who’s” as a possessive.

      • Lance Thrustwell

        I could never respect the opinion of someone who can’t respect the opinion of someone who uses ‘who’s’ as a possessive.

        • Jen_Baker_VA

          I could never respect why people eat dry toast. I mean, dry toast. Just eat a saltine and save the electricity.

  • baconzgood

    I like Bernie but I’m not a fanatical jerk about it.

  • kindness

    Hillary is the Species girl but with a mature twist. I wish I could say MILF twist. I like Hillary but not like that. Sorry Hilz.

  • MarkM

    Fair warning, I realize how fucking naïve this is going to sound, but…wouldn’t it be nice if these two could have just campaigned on their vision for the country, listened respectfully to one another’s points, articulated how they felt that they could do a better job if elected President, and avoided the toxic rhetoric that has so poisoned the public discourse? In short, acted like adults we could admire instead of common Republicans?

    • Jay Vaughn

      That’s adorable

    • Villago Delenda Est

      You mean behave like adults? Jay’s right, that’s adorable!

      • MarkM

        I know, I know…(hangs head) I’m sorry, I don’t know what the fuck I was thinking…

      • Marceline

        I think the Dem race has been pretty adult. It’s just that the gloves are coming off now that Bernie shit the bed in the NYDN and frankly that needs to happen.

    • Lizzietish81

      They did at first.

      • Lance Thrustwell

        They were doing pretty well for a while. I think Bernie kinda blew it here – this is a calculated gamble, predicated on Clinton’s supposedly ‘incendiary’ comments, to try to shake things up and actually take NY or PA instead of a respectable second-place showing. But I think he would have been better off touting his record and showing off his (undoubtedly) detailed knowledge of Congressional procedure and how the DC bureaucracy works.

    • TheBidenator

      Donny you’re out of your element!

    • lroom

      Hillary has not acted like anything other than an adult.

      • MarkM

        I think she’s pushed the envelope with some of her attacks. The “where was Bernie” bit on health care reform was demonstrably false, and made her look a little foolish. But I definitely agree she is more sinned against, especially recently.

  • proudgrampa

    And so it begins. The death spiral of the Democratic Party.

    As I have said more than once, this is the Dems’ election to lose.

    • Mahousu

      The Democratic Party – always up for a challenge.

      • Sardonicuss

        The Democratic Party – We eat our own.

        • MarkM

          They aren’t alone…the Rethug sausage machine is going full blast.

    • timpundit

      This is April. By October no one will even remember all this.

      • Proud Liberal

        Until Republicans put up ads showing Bernie saying what he said last night at his rally! It will not be forgotten!

        • jmhm

          Not that I don’t think Sanders went beyond the pale – he pledged not to do this shit – but I wonder what the utility for the Republicans is of spending their money showing America a socialist calling Hillary a corporate shill? I mean, they generally run against her as though she was the far-left candidate Sanders pretends to be. Do they want to point out that she’s not?

          • Trump would do it to pick up Bernie Bros and “anti-establishment” hipsters.

            Cruz, probably not.

          • jmhm

            I’m just saying, the potential downside of defanging her communistickle ways for people who’ve only ever heard about her from Fox News seems like it would be greater than the number of bros they could gain. And that’s presuming that the bros weren’t going to vote Republican in the general already.

          • artem1s

            It will work if Kasich is on the ticket. See, she’s just like me, a moderate Republican, Don’t vote for the bleeding whatevers, vote for the guy who kept PP from selling babbie parts and forced Bill Clinton to balance the budget.

        • DemmeFatale

          They don’t need Bernie.
          They’ve been trashing her for years.

      • Lance Thrustwell

        Remember all what?

    • Msgr_Moment

      As someone once remarked, when you hear the caterwaul of Democrats fighting, it’s like alleycats. They’s just making more cats.

    • Pinkham’s Law

      I don’t think so. I had an extended conversation with a real, live BernieBro on Facebook last night. He’s pulling for Bernie, but will not vote for Hillary if she wins. Why does that not bother him? Because he’s not a Democrat. It looks to me that the troll that set up the superdelegate contact website is simply that – a troll. For the most part, this isn’t Dems fighting each other – it’s bandwagon jumpers trying to take the lead. That said, it does look like Bernie’s people are up to some shady shit, and I do not like that ONE LITTLE BIT!

      • proudgrampa

        Thank you for that. Definitely gives some perspective…

        • Jenny

          Absolutely. As odd as it sounds, it’s the same people who wanted Paul. Fringe left and libertarians. The talking points are exactly the same. Corrupt political entities. Revolutionary mantras to take down the system, etc.

  • Takoma DC

    It surprises me that Sanders’ people are hatrassing super-delegates to switch allegience? Everyone knows that going as far back as Lincoln’s run for prez, to get those folks to switcheroo, you gots to givem’ monies. Inexperienced, long-shot, underdog Lincoln had his campaigners do it and told them not to tell him about it.

    Anyway, if Sanders doesn’t understand U.S. politics by now and that how one goes about geting important people to line up in support of you always involves lots of money and/or promises which leads to lots and lots of money – I can no longer donate to his campaign.

    • jmhm

      I think someone did a really bad job of explaining the whole inside the tent pissing out approach to Sen. Sanders’ inner circle.

      • malsperanza

        Nah, he was always a fucking spoiler. From the start. His promises not to fuck over the Dems were not worth the toilet paper they were printed on.

        • jmhm

          Well, I honestly think that both Trump’s and Sanders’ worst instincts have come into play from lack of sleep and being isolated in the middle of their hand-picked cabals of people who have their own agendas. That said, whatever the goal is, “let me in the tent so I can piss on you face to face until my boss either wins or loses and in either case you’re fired” is not a winning message.

          • zanzibar_buckbuck_mcfate

            I really do think that his campaign staff have let everything go to their heads. Cutthroat and narcissistic, and Bernie isn’t strong enough to resist. I mean, I guess if I was in front of rallies of thousands all the time, I might lose touch myself. But Weaver/Devine are bad guys. I heard some insider stuff about what the campaign did in Nevada that was the total antithesis of the kinds of things his campaign espouses to be.

          • MissNomer

            That is such a cop-out. Who would be getting the blame if Hillary were acting on poor advice from her managers? – she would, of course. If Bernie is so weak and easily manipulated that he can’t resist his advisers, he has no integrity, no strength of character, and no business being president. HE is ultimately responsible for what he says and does. He doesn’t get a pass.

          • zanzibar_buckbuck_mcfate

            No, he doesn’t get a pass, you’re right.

          • cleos_mom

            Which isn’t a very good omen. Anyone who would lose their shit during a primary season would be reduced to a puddle of quivering goo after 6 months in the Oval Office.

        • rebecca

          I disagree. If he ran as an independent, now THAT would fuck things up. He ran as a Dem, I’m cool with it.

          • malsperanza

            Until he went negative. At this point, he’s going to have a very hard time getting his fans to vote for Clinton. Spend a little time over on the blogs of Bill Moyers and Robert Reich to get the full narrative. As of today, this is on Bernie.

  • ViveLaRes

    WTF. This is totally detracting from my immense enjoyment of the Great Demise (with votes) of the Goobers On Parade.

  • Now I’m going to watch future debates imagining Clinton is a T-1000.

  • AnOuthouse

    If you have an Ivanka Trump scarf you will feel the Burn.

    “This is a dangerous product,” said Scott Wolfson, a spokesman for the Consumer Product Safety Commission

    “The United States has strict flammability regulations on the materials used in clothing and textiles to reduce the risk of serious burns..”

    http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/04/06/ivanka-trumps-chinese-made-scarves-are-recalled/?_r=0

  • Rick Hill

    Can’t we all just get along?…and vote for Bernie?

    • Proud Liberal

      That’s about right.

    • Msgr_Moment

      You know who else just got along? Huh, punk?

      • Rick Hill

        PeeWee Herman?

      • malsperanza

        That neo-Republican traitor Barack Obama?

    • Enfant Terrible

      Be reasonable! Do it my way!

      • Rick Hill

        That’s the spirit!

        • zanzibar_buckbuck_mcfate

          Once you learn about him, you’ll know how good he’ll be for you. Ignoramus.

  • Proud Liberal

    Oh for fuck’s sake Bernie. Hillary and all of her supporters should just quit and support you? Go fuck yourself.

  • Proud Liberal

    I love how Bernie is writing the Republican Party’s ads in the general election. Thanks a lot Bernie!

  • BearGHAZI

    At least she’s not an ambitious monster with DUGGARS for hands

  • AnOuthouse

    I fail to understand how criticizing their primary opponents demonstrates how they’ll take on the GOP in the general. Talk about how evil Trump and Cruz are and I’ll vote for whoever makes me laugh more.

  • Brother Yam

    I haz a sad watching Bernz and Hillz scratching each other’s eyes out. Luckily, the Republicans are currently in such bad shape, they hardly notice what’s happening over here…

    • malsperanza

      It turns out Sanders really does want to be this year’s Ralph Nader.

      He is looking more like an asshole by the day.

  • Msgr_Moment

    Can’t we all agree on one thing? Fuck O’Malley!

    • Lance Thrustwell

      Eh. I can’t even get that excited about him. [yawn]. Darn O’Malley.

    • BearGHAZI

      most of us, given the chance, probably would

      Not with votes though!

      • Proud Liberal

        I sure wish Martin was still in the race! I really liked him!

    • Jen_Baker_VA

      ….you leave mah M’Om outta this.

    • Bad Granny

      I volunteer for that job.

    • ClarkJoe

      I have a friend here in Wisconsin that voted for O’Malley in Tuesday’s primary. I think he did so ironically, but I was too afraid to ask for more info.

      • Msgr_Moment

        Your friend may be a Bro’Malley. Proceed with caution.

        • ClarkJoe

          I think he’s just a big fan of The Wire, or perhaps has some latent homosexual tendencies when it comes to washboard abs.

  • Elderlady

    If you are a Democrat…. you will VOTE BLUE….NO MATTER WHO.
    If you are a whineybabie…. if your candidate doesn’t win the nomination, you will pick up your marbles, and go home. I’m getting too damned old for whineybabies. Also,too, I’m too damned old to survive even ONE more Republican in the White House. Damn. Cruz is my Senator. I’m being punished enough. The Democratic Party does not need a food fight right now, in the middle of the Republican Party self destructing. The candidates need to get their sh** together, and stop the stupid name calling, negative campaigning, and stick to what Democrats do best….. work for the American people. The end.

    • Proud Liberal

      A poll was taken of Bernie supporters and 25% of them said they absolutely wouldn’t vote for Hillary. Does not bode well for the Democratic nominee. Of course, unless it’s Bernie.

      • Sardonicuss

        Yep she better drop out now…for the good of the party.

        • Proud Liberal

          I’m beginning to think she should. But Bernie will get destroyed in the general. So, welcome to President Cruz!

        • zanzibar_buckbuck_mcfate

          They should lead as Two Kings.

          (Tenacious D? Anybody?)

      • jmhm

        I’d be interested in hearing how many of those Bernie supporters voted for Obama.

        • Dorothy Nelson

          Yeah, I mean, Hillary basher and Bernie enthusiast HAHA Goodman was a Paul Ryan Bro before any of this stuff went down. He sure has found his clickbait ticket now.

        • zanzibar_buckbuck_mcfate

          All of them Katie.

      • DemmeFatale

        Eh.
        That’s what they say now, but when Bernie tells them to vote for her, they will.
        They are true believers now, but they WILL (most of them) calm the fuck down.

        • Callyson

          I am hoping that you are right and that this 25% will be like the 2008 PUMAs–e.g., not a thing after all.

          • DemmeFatale

            Having been a true believer myself, (with near homicidal rage for the opponent), a few times, I think most of the REAL Dems will come around eventually.
            Right now, they are at a fever pitch.

        • ryp

          The ones that don’t are heavily represented by the Ralph Nader/Jill Stien and even Ron Paul fans that never vote for democrats anyway.

      • chicken thief

        I saw a tweet this morning of a poll showing that at this stage in 2008 59% of Hillz supporters said they would vote for Obama. In this cycle 69% of BernieBots said they would vote for Hillz.

        • feministing

          ok thats actually reassuring since pumas didnt end up affecting shit

  • Bartlet4Gallifrey

    Fucking this. All of this. Yes. I hate when the kids these days just say “this”, but this.

    • Jen_Baker_VA

      that too!

  • Jen_Baker_VA

    I just have to say, and as a Bernie supporter, if that person was my close friend and they said that about me because of an ideological shift….they would cease being my friend.

    • Pickwicknext

      I have had people nearly unfriend me over my opinions on Lord of the Rings. (Thought the book was unreadable, hqven’t seen the movies)

      Bet this kicks an even crazier flame war up..

      • h4rr4r

        We are fucking done here.
        The book? It’s 3 books for one. For two you are a damn philistine.

        /Obviously not that serious. Yeah the books drag on at times. Tolkien is not only the author’s name but what you should be doing while reading his work.

        • GDleftyPart2

          Get a rope.

      • Lance Thrustwell

        Takes all kinds. For you the book (books, whatever) was/were unreadable. For me, in 6th grade, I emerged from the last page of The Return of the King feeling like I had just become a different, better person.

        • tomamitai

          I almost found myself in the “it’s unreadable” camp when the first book took for-fucking-ever to get them on their way. I skipped the last third or so and started on the next book, only to find I had missed the “death” of a major character and a bunch of other stuff, and had to go back and slog through the Midgewater Marshes and endure the witless whimsy of Tom Bombadil to get to the good parts.

      • DemmeFatale

        I voiced the same opinion in college, and my new friend basically said, “I can’t even!”
        And he never talked to me again.

        My 8th grade English teacher gave us a choice between The Hobbit and Animal Farm. You better believe I chose Animal Farm.
        (I did bake poppy seed buns for her “Hobbit Party,” though.)

      • ryp

        Because too many of my High School friends raved about LoTR, I borrowed my Tolkien fan-boy brother’s copies and sat down to read them. I actually pushed through the first two volumes before finally giving up, and going back to reading Conan paperbacks, because it didn’t take three hundred pages to get to some serious ass-kicking.

    • Relativicus

      I have spent a galaxy full of suns-worth of energy not un-friending the swath of people filling my Facebook page with dumb, stupid, stupid-dumb conservative and anti-Clinton memes, and My Editrix loses one over Bernie v. Screech? I’m some kind of an angel, I guess.

      • Jen_Baker_VA

        There is a world of difference unfriending someone because you disagree with them, and dropping a friend who literally calls you all the bad things because you disagree with them.
        As in, you are probably a saint, but when those people of yours on your FB start personally attacking you for your political ideas, you should probably forget the galaxy and click the unfriend link. Because they are not your friend.

        • Relativicus

          Actually, I fibbed a little. Most of my energy is spent not being that person to those people. So far, so good…

          • Jen_Baker_VA

            Mind, I do not do the facebook for a reason anymore. If they are my friends, they will call me on the telephone or email maybe. As a consequence, I hear from most my siblings (for example)a couple times a year, see them once a year, and generally am pretty happy the remainder of the time.

          • Lamashtar

            My siblings can abuse me in person.

      • Lizzietish81

        I had to let one go, he became an utter asshole over it

    • Apple Scruff

      Right???? She’s a better person than I am.

  • Fun fact: Hillary Clinton and Glenn Close were born just seven months apart.

  • chascates

    Since I live in a fantasy world most of the time I can imagine my ideal candidate and how the Constitution would be amended, the super-wealthy paying more taxes, the manipulators held accountable, and the working poor such as myself lifted up in the lower middle-class. But that won’t happen in my lifetime at least.
    I’ll take Hillary or Bernie or Elizabeth or whomever we can elect. The millennials and old leftists like myself aren’t enough to elect Bernie and so, so many people hate the Clintons and fear strong women almost as much as they do blacks. I don’t think the GOP will lose the House or that the Trump tribe will be satisfied with whatever happens.
    So I’ll just vote the straight Democratic ticket I always do (I did vote for Bernie in the Texas primary) and will drink as much as I can afford until the election.
    I may have to find a way to get opiods after the election but that’s still a way off.

    • Proud Liberal

      I wish President Obama could run again. I literally hate this election!

  • DemmeFatale

    Who’s trying to destroy the Democratic party?

    • ClarkJoe

      Republican ratfuckers and the libertarian elites that fund them?

    • Proud Liberal

      The person who has never been a Democrat and, in fact, called Democrats and Republicans “tweedle dee and tweedle dum”. Cool huh?

    • GDleftyPart2

      Good question, I don’t belong to an organized political party, I’m a democrat.
      How does one destroy the unorganized…

    • HanBarbara

      Dems don’t need any help from anyone else they are fine on their own.

    • MissNomer

      AOT, K!

  • Ilgattomorte

    My God! I had no idea you were a Hilary supporter! How could you?

    Myself, I cannot support Hillary or Bernie. No, we need an outsider candidate. Someone who is liberal, progressive, caring but sensitive. We need to elect someone who has never been near government of any kind. Someone with common sense, but who also knows nothing of the internal workings of politics. In fact the less this individual knows, the better. We need someone who really knows the hardships of life and wants to change things.

    That is why I am voting for a baby seal. That’s right, a cute, sweet baby seal. We need to find the dumbest, but most lovable life form we can, if we are to have any hope of beating that stupid sonafabitch Trump in November.

    This is the year of the stupid.

    • Proud Liberal

      I wanted Martin O’Malley!

      • Bartlet4Gallifrey

        We all did.

      • Apple Scruff

        He’s going to be on Rachel Maddow tonight. So there you go!

        • Proud Liberal

          Thanks for the heads up!

    • chicken thief

      After that second paragraph I was ready to dig out my really Preznitial looking ties.

      • orygoon

        Can I get the first “CHICKEN THIEF FOR PREZ 2016” bumpersticker, please pretty please?

        • MarkM

          “A Stolen Chicken in Every Pot!”

    • tomamitai

      Buddy Christ Bobblehead 2016!

    • MarkM

      Harp Seal 2016!

    • zanzibar_buckbuck_mcfate

      I think a baby seal could be a uniting candidate.

    • YourNameHere

      You have made a good argument but further up they made a better one for a baby devil goat. Sorry!

  • It’s weird how people will call you a “bought and paid for” Clinton “shill” while gushing over all the money Sanders’ campaign has collected. What do they think that money is being spent on, if not to convince people to “shill” for Sanders?

    • orygoon

      I read a comment somewhere that all the college kids who sent Bernie $27 are expecting him to get them an A. Not the epitome of humor, but hey, HAHAHA!

      • DoILookAmused2u ?

        They are expecting free college, for sure.

        • Apple Scruff

          But they’re all in college now. Do they expect him to go pay off all their loans? Give them a refund?

          • DoILookAmused2u ?

            I do not know how it works exactly except, “College tuition sucks too high” (and this is true) “Mad, we bailed out ‘banksters’ and didn’t get nothin'”.

            So a little class envy, a little misperception, a legitmate complaint, a lot of inexperience to the point of thinking you know things you do not?

          • Apple Scruff

            It’s quite amazing to me that so many of these millenials, internet natives with information at their fingertips since birth, are so ill-informed about so many things. I think they just seek out their own kind and remain in the echo chamber.

          • DoILookAmused2u ?

            Well, the internet isn’t famous for providing exclusively reliable information.

            That being said, a few weekends on Wikipedia would end a lot of stupid bullshit.

          • YourNameHere

            Tumblr sucks. It’s impossible to correct anything there.

          • MissNomer

            ,,

          • tomamitai

            The phrase “class envy”, to me, implies that those in the favored class earned their way in, a point I’m not willing to concede in most cases. Nor do I believe that those who were born to it inherited superior genes, like Bill Maher’s favorite pseudo-scientific racist buddy Charles Murray. Plus, it legitimizes the existence of class distinctions, something I find to be un-American and illiberal.

          • DoILookAmused2u ?

            And yet… it exists. It’s not like there was no idea of class while aristocrats turned up their noses until Karl Marx came along and gave us conflict theory.

            In fact, we had a civil war over whether Southern Aristocrats would be allowed to own peoples, and Karl Marx was a big supporter of the Union cause and the Abolition movement more generally.

            But there’s a point where you start trying to paint everybody who has done well as an enemy where things go astray, and I see folks doing that. I see them thinking all they have to say is “elitist” or “Big (fill in the blank)”, and then we don’t have to have a policy discussion.

            And trust me, I am the last person to pander to the hot-house orchids who are some of the folks that fancy themselves masters of the universe who are used to having their asses kissed and who are more-than-ready to shout “oppression” if somebody looks at them funny.

            To me, there’s not a lot of difference between somebody who paints everybody who works for a finance company or a major corporation as a shill/oppressor and Donald Trump blaming everything on Mexicans and Muslims.

        • rebecca

          and they should. college tuition has become fucking OBSCENE. when my boomer friends went to Berkeley, it was $100 a year. Taxpayers picked up the rest for the common good.

          • tomamitai

            It would be fairer and cheaper to make it illegal to favor the college educated when hiring, except for those few fields in which it really is a requirement, like medicine or the other sciences. I’ve lost count of all the nitwits with BA degrees I’ve had the misfortune of working for or with.

        • John Nace

          Suggesting that Bernie-supporting millennials are expecting free college is more than a little reductive and a significant misrepresentation, not to mention highly condescending. The condescension of many Hillary supporters toward millennials is highly ironic insofar as it was Bill and Hillary Clinton who so heavily courted the youth vote back in 1992 when Bill was first running for president, and it plays a large part in furthering the schism forming in the party.

          I was born on the leading edge of Gen X (as such things are generally reckoned), and as such it would be inaccurate to level the charge of inexperience at me. I’ve witnessed 35 years of trickle down economics, mass deregulation, subversion of confidence in government, and GOP union-busting. I see it as my role to educate those coming after me concerning the perils of these policies, and while it can be frustrating to fight through some misapprehensions on their part it’s also tremendously useful to have them foil my own.

          If we really don’t wish to see the divisions in the Democratic Party grow then a good first step is for the older generation to behave as though we possess wisdom worthy of the millennials time and attention. When we start every interaction with the assumption of their inferiority and ignorance, followed closely by the declaration of same, all we’re doing is hamstringing the future of the party.

          I’ve regularly advised millennials who express their disdain of Hillary Clinton that it’s helpful if we don’t accept the decades of right wing smear campaigns as source material for critiques. I’m finding myself having to advise those of my generation and the ones preceding it at least as often that our responsibilities include showing patience and generosity toward the millennials who are expressing their entirely legitimate frustrations with the system they’ve been forced to come of age in. Dismissing them and resorting to smearing them as naive when what they are is understandably disillusioned fails to live up to the far greater responsibilities we bear to prepare them to lead.

          Every millennial I’ve spoken to, and there have been dozens, understands that no one is promising free college. They’re advocating for publicly funded education through university level, and they’re all quite ready to support requiring the wealthiest among us to pay the relative pittance needed to fund it. Assuming, that is, that we don’t choose to fund it by re-appropriating funds from our massive military budget. They have stated, to a person, that they realize they will not personally benefit from publicly funded college education, and they’ve likewise stated unequivocally that they view the possibility of having to pay higher taxes themselves (should they beat the odds and become wealthy) as a public duty and a public good. When Democrats balk at such ideals and the notion of pursuing them as public policy it speaks to a degree of rightward drift that should trouble us all.

          • YourNameHere

            Wild Applause! (gen X here)

          • Proud Liberal

            Standing ovation! Such common sense for such a young person. Well done!

      • $27? They think they’re paying for a bag of legal weed.

        • tomamitai

          Shit, even ditch weed cost more than that back in the 70’s!

        • Jen_Baker_VA

          man in my day, 10 bucks would have got you a bag :/
          friggin inflation. By the time it is legal in VA, it will be too expensive for me to buy.

        • Proud Liberal

          #FeelTheBern

        • John Nace

          Good luck finding a bag of legal weed for $27. A pre-rolled joint will set you back at least $10.

      • JaaaaaCeeeee

        Hillary Clinton said a some young voters prefer Bernie Sanders because they do not want to have to work 10 hours a week toward their degrees.

        Hillary Clinton said that she feels sorry for young voters whom Sanders is deliberately misleading with pie-in-the-sky promises that don’t add up; young voters who do not do their own research or listen to independent fact checkers.

        Bill Clinton told BLM protesters today they are defending the people who kill the people whose lives you say matter.

    • feministing

      oh hey, someone else finally sees that particular point of hypocrisy.

  • Scooby

    Can’t we all just get along?

    • Proud Liberal

      Of course we can! After the Convention!

    • zanzibar_buckbuck_mcfate

      Apparently the closer it gets to unity time, the more vicious things have to get.

      • GDleftyPart2

        Well I have to stab you before I drive you to the hospital, there are rules you know.

        • zanzibar_buckbuck_mcfate

          SHILL!!!!

      • Scooby

        Right, what’s up with that?

  • Bemused

    I am confused. A woman who has worked for Democratic causes and supported the Democratic party since 1971, who was the first lady of a Democratic administration, who was a Democratic Senator, who was the Secretary of State of a Democratic administration, who is the current front-runner for the Democratic nomination for president, who is currently funding down-ticket Democratic races, is tearing the Democratic Party apart? Because she’s running for president?

    And who is making that accusation? A dude who works for a dude who has been a Democrat for 4 months? Who is not doing anything about down-ticket races and has not supported the party in general?

    So confused. It must be my lady-brain.

    • Don’t worry. I’m sure there’s a BernieBro somewhere who can mansplain it to you.

      • GDleftyPart2

        Just don’t let anyone Trumpslain it to you…

        • MarkM

          Or Cruzsplain. Or should that be Cruzstain? Santorum anyone?

          • DemmeFatale

            Ew,ew,ew!

        • Bemused

          I’m sure it would be a YOOGE! and class explanation made with tiny *cough* words.

      • Bemused

        Oh, but I’m afraid my brain screens out all reasoning that translates to regurgitated Republican talking points of the last 25 years, so I don’t know that I could hear them. I think they might just sound like the adults in a Charlie Brown cartoon.

        • DemmeFatale

          Thank you.

      • natoslug

        Because reasons, that’s why. Duh.

        (Do I get a gold star in mansplaining?)

        • YourNameHere

          Nah, mansplaining is long and convoluted.

          Because reasons became popular from a comic by a lady.

          • natoslug

            Dammit! Okay, I’ll work on something involving ovaries and estrogen and shoes and sammiches in a nice mad-libs format that should cover the reasons a woman is wrong about a thing, no matter what the thing is. If my wife says I can post it, then we’ll have the best mansplaining ever.

          • jmk

            Don’t forget – it has to include a distinct air of you being thisclose to calling her honey, and if possible, an analogy about shoes or shopping.

          • cleos_mom

            And shouting. And not smiling enough.

            Not to mention actually wanting to win.

          • jmk

            Oh my stars, ladies just don’t HAVE ambitions!! How…unladylike!!

            *falls back onto fainting couch*

    • MissNomer

      Psssst. He’s still not a Democrat.

    • JaaaaaCeeeee

      I may not be a man-bro-yout, but I can try to mansplain like those horrid berniebro’s.

      It might be divisive for Hillary Clinton to say that some young voters prefer Bernie because they don’t want to have to work 10 hours a week toward their degrees.

      It may be divisive for Hillary Clinton to say she feels sorry for young voters, whom Sanders deliberately misleads with pie-in-the-sky promises that don’t add up. Who don’t do their own research or listen to independent fact checkers.

      It may be divisive to say that Sanders isn’t doing his fair share to help other democrats, when he is no longer scheduled into fundraising.

      It may be divisive for Bill Clinton to tell BLM protesters today they are defending the people who kill the people whose lives BLM says matters.

      • Bemused

        1. Sigh. Didn’t listen to what Bill actually said, did you?

        2. Sanders isn’t doing anything to help down-ticket Democrats.
        3. Sanders doesn’t have a good, legislatable, plan for free college.

        You do understand that campaigning involves disagreeing with your opponent, right? That it is, in fact, what campaigning is often about? And that nothing either of them have said (so far) is in any danger of destroying the party, right? Which means that Weaver is wrong in much wrong wrongness.

        Clearly you are very invested in Bernie’s nomination process.

    • cleos_mom

      A woman who has worked for Democratic causes and supported the
      Democratic party since 1971, who was the first lady of a Democratic
      administration, who was a Democratic Senator, who was the Secretary of
      State of a Democratic administration, who is the current front-runner
      for the Democratic nomination for president, who is currently funding
      down-ticket Democratic races, is tearing the Democratic Party apart?
      Because she’s running for president?

      A huge chunk of the answers to your questions are in the first two words.

      • Parque_Hundido

        Uh, not so fast.this sentence fails to include a few other achievements:
        – first woman to sit on Wallmart’s board of directors
        – First Lady to a president whose finance reforms put the world economy at risk, who kick started the prison. Industrial complex and whose Telecommunications Act of 1996 gave us, among other things, Rush Limbaugh on air in every market in the country. I won’t bother to mention that Bill has the dubious distinction of having signed the most anti-gay legislation of any US president.
        – voted for the war in Iraq and then back pedaled when she realized how bad that would play with voters
        – Evolved on marriage equality only when it was risk free to do so.

        Clinton’s troubles may be compounded by sexism but she’s given us a lots of good reasons to wish for someone better. It wasn’t sexism that made her cozy up to Goldman Sachs, it was her commitment to politics as usual.

  • MarkM

    “Don’t destroy the Democratic Party to satisfy the secretary’s ambitions to become president of the United States,” Sanders campaign manager Jeff Weaver told CNN.

    “We want to have a party at the end of this that we can unify,” he added.

    If this can be interpreted in any way other than saying that a vote for Hillary is a vote to destroy the Democratic party, I’d like to know how. In any case, the only people whose rhetoric seems to indicate that they will take their votes and go home if their candidate isn’t nominated are Berniebros.
    So basically, go fuck yourself Mr. Weaver.

    • Sardonicuss

      Having the flak for the “Democratic Socialist” who only caucuses with the Democrats, accuse the actual “Democrat” of destroying the party because of her “ambition”! Umm….No.

      • MarkM

        A person’s true character is revealed in adversity-but sometimes also when they think they are getting close to attaining something they want very badly. This, frankly, does not speak well of Bernie Sanders’ true character…

        • feministing

          jesus i have been saying this from the beginning. how can a good person attract such assholes to support him if he isn’t an asshole himself? from the beginning the bernie babies have been saying they will never vote for hillary, while every single good thing said about hillary by her supporters is prefaced and footnoted and afterwarded and referenced with “i think bernie is a great guy/i will absolutely vote for him if he wins”. night and day.

    • DemmeFatale

      I don’t need someone from outside the Democratic Party to tell me what to do!
      Now go away! (And take the Berniebros/cyberbullies with you!)

  • GDleftyPart2

    Here’s my biggest problem with the “take your vote and go home” bullshit….my state primary election, where people waited four hours after polls closed to vote.
    All the gnashing of teeth and calls for scalps were coming from the Bernie folks that had never participated in our election process before then, allowing the shitheels that are in office to be elected in the first goddamned place.
    I had and continue to have no problem telling these fucks, hey, welcome to the fucking party, we could have used you before now but since it’s finally personally affected you and you’re pissed, now what?
    Take your fucking vote and stay home, it will be like all the previous years.

  • JK3

    I think we can all agree that two casualties from the Sanders campaign’s NY meltdown/car crash should be Jeff Weaver and Tad Devine.

    • feministing

      hey isn’t he the guy from Community?

  • Relativicus

    Allegedly, Wiskansas has, in part, Bernie supporters — those stalwarts who remain unfazed by midterm elections, unconcerned with the Supreme Court, and uninterested in anything or anyone not named Bernie Sanders — to thank for State Supreme Court Justice Rebecca Bradley:

    http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/enormous-drop-hurt-down-ballot-dems-wisconsin

    • DoILookAmused2u ?

      Not running against Bernie, so she may pass!

      Really?

    • Lizzietish81

      noises of disgust, I can’t even

    • Iam Reading

      The state that continues to elect Walker? Tell us more about your informed electorate

      • Smokahontas

        But we sing every day in the Capitol? !?! For 4 years now!!!1!11!! Except on Fridays when we sing outside with a guitar, because that’s when they schedule weddings. Tell me that’s not hope and change.

        As always, I’ll be at the bar.
        Sincerely,
        Wisco

    • Callyson

      The pitch from the Sanders campaign has long been that down-ballot Democrats will necessarily benefit in the end: with so many progressives showing up to support the Vermont senator, they’ll end up helping Democrats in other races at the same time. This week in Wisconsin suggests the argument isn’t necessarily true, at least not at this stage in the race

      It’s a detail I suspect many party superdelegates will notice.

      Ding ding ding!

  • HanBarbara

    This is making me lose my respect for Bernie, and thought he was better than this. Goddammit, why do Dems have to start acting like common Republicans, or even common Palins? The election is ours to lose.
    This isn’t cute anymore.

    • zanzibar_buckbuck_mcfate

      The last 2 weeks I’ve really been working on my unity game, smoothing things over with my Bernie peeps, thinking about the good stuff with both candidates. The last few days have left me feeling really disgusted with the Sanders campaign.

      • HanBarbara

        Yeah, one of my Facebook “friends” (relative, unfortunately) had a monster tantrum about how she was going to have to choose between two “anus faces” (Trump or Clinton) and maybe she’d just stay home.
        I really wanted to tell her “Take a deep breath and put on those big girl panties. Being an adult means that you often have to make choices you don’t like. Think about the future, about your sons, who will be draftable age in a few years. Think about the Supreme Court. Also, if you live long enough, you will be disappointed with the results of a presidential election, or live with others who are. We’ve all had it happen.”

        • GDleftyPart2

          Ah facebook….
          I always tell my daughter that the easiest way to end this type of feud, log out and let the bullshit twist in the internet wind.

          • HanBarbara

            “You are de friended!”
            “Yes, I will so miss your political screeds and your idiot ‘funny’ memes”

          • GDleftyPart2

            Facebook, where actual real life friendships go to die….
            After witnessing some incredible cruelty while her husband was being disconnected from life support, a decision they made together while he was lucid, I loathe motherfuckers that do their opinioning on that shit site since they feel they need no filters, ever.
            Guess what, telling a woman who’s gone through 3 years of her best friend and husbands glioblastoma and is now at the end of the road that she’s a murderer without being able to say it to her face was it for me.
            I didn’t lose any friends, I lost a bunch of fuckers I thought were friends along with some family..
            Whew, facebook rant over….thanks.

          • DemmeFatale

            Dammit!
            Cowards!
            Stay strong!

    • Proud Liberal

      Hillary was one class act in responding to Bernie’s bullshit last night. She said she would take Bernie over any Republican. And Bernie responded by doubling down on how unqualified Hillary is. Classy isn’t he?

      • feministing

        my respect grew for her even more with her breathtakingly diplomatic answer. like i didn’t even think it was possible to admire her this much.

  • zanzibar_buckbuck_mcfate

    CAN I GET AN AMEN you are so cool Rebecca, and so right, and a voice for good in this crazy world!

  • Lizzietish81

    Wimmin! Amirite?

    • Msmlg1979

      Not fit to lead, just fit to breed, I always say!

  • Pepper Jack

    Pick Flick!

  • Apple Scruff

    Didn’t we all call Donald Trump a sorry-assed 3rd grader when he blamed Ted Cruz for dust-up with the wives: ” He started it!” That’s exactly what Bernie is doing now with the “Clinton is unqualified” comment (and she didn’t even say that about him anyway).

    Between that, and not being able to answer questions about the key issue of his platform (breaking up the banks, how?), the parallels between the two grow stronger…

    • Yeah. Apparently we give Trump shit for not being able to explain himself and using playground tactics, but Bernie gets a pass because reasons.

      Also, we get mad when Republicans put Dem lawmakers in crosshairs on a map, but when BernieBros start a “superdelegate hit list”, that’s ok.

      I am decidedly not feeling the bern.

      • Jen_Baker_VA

        It is not ok. It is really not ok.

      • Apple Scruff

        The parallels… especially with the dueling hit lists! Yeah, the Bros and Trump fans are VERY similar.

        My favorite this week:

        Bernie said they still use tokens on the NY subway, how cute and folksy is that!???

        OMGOD LOOK AT HILLARY TRYING TO USE THE SUBWAY. SHE SUCKS! TRYING TO BE “ONE OF THE PEOPLE”!!!

  • UncleTravelingMatt

    Until about two months ago, I had no real preference between these two. Each had his or her pluses and minuses, so Clinton with meat, Sanders with fish, and whatever happens, happens. The Sanders campaign has flipped me to the Clinton side. Their obnoxiousness (to say nothing of some of his vocal followers) has soured me on Sanders as a candidate more than anything he has said, done, or omitted.

    In the past two weeks, they are proving to me that Hillary is disciplined enough to not swing at a low pitch, which is another reason I prefer her now. I look forward to at least 4 years of Republicans actively disrespecting the first female President. I love the idea that “conservatives” are going to be calling her a bitch on a daily basis, and I can’t wait until someone forgets the hot mic and calls her a cunt. There are too many women who have been voting Republican because they haven’t had a chance to see just how misogynistic and despicably discriminatory the party is. A few million women furious with those assholes’ treatment of another woman would end the political power of those pricks.

    • Proud Liberal

      Standing ovation for this comment!

    • MarkM

      Testify!

    • proudgrampa

      You, sir, have won the proudgrampa’s 1000 Thousand Virtual Upvotes for the day. Congratulations!

    • HanBarbara

      I’d like to think that, but unfortunately the Ladies Against Women are alive and well.

      • Msmlg1979

        They sure are. I want to spit in all their purses!!

    • Apple Scruff

      Never forget.

      • cat cafe

        That gif doesn’t even include her little “brush my shoulder off” moment. That was awesomesauce.

        • Apple Scruff

          I was looking for that one! But I couldn’t find a good quality version. This one’s good, too :)

    • greenpatches

      People are desperate for a good politician that they feel like they can get behind. Yes, a lot of them have gotten carried away, and those people are acting like assholes. But can you really blame them with the way things are? Their methods and their tone could use some civilizing, but you have to understand why they’re so adamant about getting the guy elected. Hillary represents, to many of us, at least 4 more years of our grand decline into wholly corrupt, economically disastrous center-left oligarchy, and a lot of us truly can’t afford (in a real, pragmatic sense) to keep heading in that direction.

      I know plenty of Bernie supporters in real life who are good, decent people that campaign for their candidate honestly, politely, and sincerely. There are some bad apples, but it ain’t the whole tree. It’s sad that so many on here have let some particularly vile commenters on the internet sour them on a genuinely good candidate.

      • MissNomer

        It’s sad that he’s sinking to the level of his worst supporters.

      • Lamashtar

        But can you really blame them with the way things are?

        Uh, yeah. The same way I blame anyone I expect better from.

        • Word.

          Plus, I’m a bit tired of being told that I have to understand this or that about Bernie supporters. Why don’t they have to understand that I’ve been waiting all my life for the whole “you can be anything, even the president” line that we give kids to actually be true for gyno-Americans? That I’m afraid that if this immensely qualified and experienced and talented woman elected, there’s probably no hope for getting any woman in the White House in the next generation or two? That it’s insulting to be told I’m voting with my vagina when I’m simply tired of women being completely underrepresented since forever, and I think it’s stupid not to elect the most prepared person running, who happens to be female?

          The Bernie folks insisting that I try to understand them and give them a pass because they’re excited about the revolution have less than zero interest in understanding me. (Standard NotAllBernieBros disclaimer here.) I understand them just fine. I still think they’re fucking wrong.

      • cleos_mom

        ***Yes, a lot of them have gotten carried away, and those people are acting
        like assholes. But can you really blame them with the way things are?***

        You bet your ass.

    • feministing

      did you see her response to what he said? never has there been a more calm, diplomatic, classy answer given to such a ridiculous below the belt insult. made my admiration for her grow even more. just brilliant.

    • artem1s

      This.

  • geoffalnutt

    Has Bernie become a common Republican?

    • Proud Liberal

      I think he has let his ego get the better of him.

    • Proud Liberal

      This is the final thing to do on his bucket list!

    • Takoma DC

      No. He’s trying to look more Clintonesque.

      • GDleftyPart2

        Needs bigger, brassier undercarriage to try for that bar.

      • MissNomer

        Too bad he didn’t try that sooner – like before the NYDN interview.

        • Takoma DC

          As Rhodes Scholar, author, current Berkeley professor, former Director of Policy Planning Staff (Jimmy Carter) and former Secretary of Labor (Bill Clinton) remarked about that very interview, “it’s a tempest in a tea cup.”

    • HazooToo

      Ugh! No! Don’t even think it! Go to your corner. No, you can’t bring your dolls, either.

      • geoffalnutt

        Okay, Okay!! It was a mere snark, but I’ll take my anatomically correct GI Joe and go to the corner.

        • HazooToo

          Okay, it’s been an hour, you can come out. Play nice, and don’t spill your wine cooler on the carpet.

        • Lamashtar

          “Now kiss!”

    • Iam Reading

      No. Stop that. Did you even read the article? HRC or Bern =/= republicans. I can’t believe I have to point this out

    • cleos_mom

      Now you’ve gone and pissed off the babysitter.

  • Lefty Frizzell

    The Bernie campaign has been a bit off in the last few days, a segment of his supporters for a while, and he’s benefited mightily from the completely made up and false narrative in the media, going back decades, that Hillary is dishonest in some way that politicians in general aren’t. But she has consistently used innuendo and mischaracterizations to imply Bernie is pro-NRA, anti-healthcare, anti-Obama, and so on.

    Nobody’s super-clean – that’s politics, I just hope nothing is said that can’t be unsaid. I like them both, but lean slightly towards Hillary only because Bernie just doesn’t seem interested in foreign policy.

    • HanBarbara

      Also, I think that some of Bernies plans to pay for all the things he’d like to do are about as realistic as that Mexican wall. Any President will have to contend with Congress, and the corporate robber Barron’s are not going to simply slink away.

    • HazooToo

      I’m kind of leaning toward: I’d like to get our own house in order. But I do understand the importance of foreign policy, we can’t really afford to ignore it, even for a little while. I’m for Bernie, but if Hillary wins it, I’m not going to be sore. They aren’t even really that different! Just Bernie has some bigger goals that I’d really love to see at least attempted in my lifetime!

      • Lefty Frizzell

        I like Bernie’s domestic goals. Could they both be president and handle different areas?

        • HazooToo

          I’m also kind of hoping for a Pres. Hillary, VP Bernie situation.

          • Never work. The VP’s job is to support the President, and advocate for her policies. Bernie’s too much of a loose cannon to do that.

          • HazooToo

            Is it bad that it still kind of appeals to me, even like that? He really does look and act a lot like the guy in the disaster films that nobody listens to because his hair is bad, and he keeps dropping his papers… Anyway, in my wildest fantasies, Obama gets a third term and the Republican congresscritters’ heads explode (with votes). Bernie, with all his goals actually working, is second best. Hillary is probably reality, and that’s really not bad to me, so I’m not complaining too hard. I really hate the infighting though, and I hope it stays fan-based and doesn’t become official mudslinging, plz God…

          • Apple Scruff

            But maaaaaaybe we get Obama on the Supreme Court… how much of a ‘fuck you’ would that be the Republicans?

          • That’s the dream. Seriously, Obama for SCOTUS would make my decade.

          • HazooToo

            That would be beautiful, so beautiful!

          • SullivanSt

            Bad news is Harry Reid won’t be majority leader to drop a second nuke on the Senate, which would obviously be necessary to achieve Justice Obama. Although Schumer might do such a thing I guess.

          • As I’ve said, his goals are nice, it’s just that the details of how they’ll actually be structured, how they’ll be funded, and how he’ll get them into place are either lacking or so politically toxic not even the most liberal legislature in the world would go near them. I went through his plan for “free tuition,” and what struck me was not just the requirements to get the federal money, but that it would also require a huge increase in state spending to get that. Since we just went through our annual state budget’s battles over university funding, I can tell you what the chances of that are: About like my winning the lottery.

          • HazooToo

            That’s why I think they need to be discussed and worked over and actually corrected. They stand a better chance of being taken seriously and have their problems fixed if he is President, don’t they? The ACA happened, after all. Problems can be fixed.

          • Basically, the problems would be fixed by “throw everything out, and start over.” As I said, looking at his plan for education, there were so many things that no state would accept, the core idea is what is left. The same thing for his plan for “single payer,” in that the core idea is there, but everything around it is either fuzzy as hell, too expensive, or just plain unrealistic.

          • HazooToo

            Good with gutting it and starting over, really. The starting over is the part I want to see, that’s all. If it can’t work the way it is, and I believe you know what you’re talking about, then I just want to find a way that it can work.

          • Thanks. The thing is, both President Obama has been trying, and Hillary has plans, to move towards those goals. They’re actually more realistic, both financially and politically. Why a lot of Bernie fans hate those is that they’re incremental, not “instant change.” Incremental change works.

          • HazooToo

            Incremental is far better than no change! What I hate is the fact that people on either side can go so far as to hate the other, when they’re both great candidates. They’ve been trying to keep it clean between the two of them, and at some point yeah, you do expect arguments to flare up, but dammit, the fans have to stop trying to start shit. It could cost one or both candidates dearly, and could potentially lose us the entire election if shit gets completely out of control.

          • Lamashtar

            I support Bernie as disaster film guy!

      • The big problem I’ve had with Bernie is not his goals, but the details. I read through his proposed bill for college tuition, and while the goal is laudable, how how he proposes to do it is a steaming pile of manure. No state, no matter how liberal, would even begin to accept it.

        • HazooToo

          Well, nothing gets started without going through lots of planning sessions, right? Maybe if he’s elected, he’ll have a cabinet that can help him work out the kinks. It’s not an un-achievable goal (god, spelling, idk), and I’d really like to see us at least come up to the standards of certain other nations with regards to higher education.

          • SullivanSt

            The cabinet doesn’t matter for crap. Congress has exclusive power to legislate. This is why it’s a big deal to me that Hillary is raising for the campaign committees and Bernie is not and will not commit to doing so if he is the nominee.

          • HazooToo

            I’m not talking about the cabinet legislating, I’m talking about helping him fix the problems in his plans. Hopefully.

          • SullivanSt

            Committee markup is where legislative detail gets hammered out – Obama had a very detailed, reasonable plan for healthcare reform in his campaign, but it’s still not what got enacted.

            But the details simply don’t matter at all if there’s no chance that the committees will even take up the plan because Congress is still controlled by Republicans after the Democratic Party’s Presidential nominee failed to support the party.

            Even with full support, retaking the House is a steep hill to climb because of the severity of the gerrymander. Analysis of the 2012 results suggested we’d need to win the popular vote by 7% just to get to 218 seats.

          • HazooToo

            Thank you, I don’t do a lot of the ‘knowing exactly what things do what’, but I try to learn. And I keep hoping a lot. And voting. Like I said before, I really don’t mind voting Hillary, I just really want some of Bernie’s grand plans to be at least seriously worked on before I die, mostly for my son’s sake.

          • SullivanSt

            I prefer Bernie’s policy platform, so I totally get you there.

            To me the game isn’t what you want though, it’s what you can get.

          • cleos_mom

            And Congress would have more than a few people who remembered his blowing off support for down-ticket candidates with “we’ll see.”

    • HanBarbara

      The Clintons have been known to hit below the belt a time or two. But Bernie, part of why we loved you is because we thought you were an honest, decent man who was above all this. Don’t you realize how tired people are of this crap?

      • Lefty Frizzell

        Agreed.

      • Apple Scruff

        When Tad Devine did that interview with the Times earlier this week, that said Bernie should have gone after Clinton harder earlier, many people disagreed because part of Bernie’s appeal was that he was supposedly a nice guy.

        Now that that has been thrown out the window, look at all the blowback Bernie’s started to get. If he’d been a dick from the beginning, no one would have voted for him.

    • Truthiness2U

      You don’t have to mischaracterize jack about Bernie’s NRA record. It sucks, and he lies about it. I thought that when I was a supporter, and that hasn’t changed since I stopped being one. He only has his touted D- now, he’s had up to a C- from the NRA. He did lie during a debate and said that Hillary wanted to end gun manufacturing when she said she wanted regulations. It’s always been a great weakness for me when wanting to vote for the guy.

      And Bernie has been anti-Obama. The guy said Obama should be primaried. He is quoted as liking a book called “Buyer’s Remorse” about Obama. He has denigrated what Obama has done in the past, not just the things that some of us don’t like, but not even getting how hard it was to get the ACA through at all.

      And given that his knowledge about even economics, his pet subject is on Trump levels, I’m gladder every day he isn’t going to be the Dem nom.

      He has a place in the Senate, voting with Dems sometimes, and yelling at clouds.

      • By Bernie’s current metric for “qualified to be president”, Obama is unqualified to be president. With the Reps in Congress currently pretending he’s not a real president so they can ignore his SCOTUS nominee, I’m less than thrilled to hear Bernie give them ammo.

  • YourNameHere

    Fuck it. I’m voting for Elizabeth Warren.

    • Proud Liberal

      I sure wish she would have run.

      • YourNameHere

        I’m trying to think of a way where we all write her in and then she knows we all love her and she agrees to be president of us while continuing to stompy boot asshats.

    • lovecrumb

      You know that Third Way tried to defeat Warren, and Hillary, Obama, and Dems like Cory Booker are all up their pants leg?

      • YourNameHere

        I have no idea what the hell that is and I’m not sure I give a fuck.

        • lovecrumb

          Look up Third Way, and then tell me you are indifferent to the direction the Democratic Party is taking.

          • YourNameHere

            Is this the part where I tell you I’m not a democrat and I am also not attempting to elect a Messiah.

            I did as you asked and looked at their website which is awful to read and then went to the wiki page where it’s mostly a list of members. I don’t like some of what they say but tbh I’m not opposed to some of it.

            What am I supposed to be worried about?

          • lovecrumb

            They are the neoliberal faction that is subverting the Democratic Party. They are financed by Wall Street, they are the Phoenix of the Democratic Legislative Council that came up with the Superdelegates to stop grassroots from electing party leaders.

          • YourNameHere

            So they are the new Republican party now the Republican party has eaten itself? Kick them out.

          • Lizzietish81

            You know, whenever someone says “look up” rather than giving a short explanation, I get a bad vibe from them

  • QHarp

    Man, it must be really nice to have the luxury of not voting if your preferred candidate doesn’t get the nomination because you belong to a demographic that won’t really be affected by having a Republican president. To not understand what it’s like on the receiving end of violent anti-woman, or anti-gay, or anti-immigrant, or anti-Muslim rhetoric, and not have to worry about the ramifications of electing a president who normalizes that behavior. I mean, how bad can it be, right?

    Also, a ‘secretary’s ambitions to become president?’ I see what you’re doing there, and I don’t care for it, Weaver. You dog-whistling fuck.

    • zanzibar_buckbuck_mcfate

      THANK YOU.

    • lovecrumb

      So trying to hammer in 5% for Jill Stein so we actually have a viable third party is bad, how?

      • Truthiness2U

        Because that went so well back in 2000. Florida wouldn’t have even mattered if 3.7% of idiots in NH hadn’t purity voted for Nader.

        Screw them, and everyone who voted for Nader -says everyone who lived, or died, under Dubya.

        I mean, not like there is this little thing like the SCOTUS in play now. So just for that alone, one should vote Dem. And no, living in a Blue State isn’t an excuse for doing your job and actively voting against the Repub candidate.

        • Apple Scruff

          I was young and dumb when I voted for Nader because he was the “cool” candidate. I take full responsibility for my actions :( Some of us do learn from our mistakes.

          • Iam Reading

            I would say that selling out to the establishment is the exact opposite of learning from mistakes.

          • Apple Scruff

            Tim Robbins, is that you?

          • jmk

            Hey – I voted for Anderson, my first time in the booth. We all do things we regret.

        • lovecrumb

          So this is how democracy ends. In fear and shaming, blaming one man who ran on principles instead of the State of Florida Jeb.co and Antonin Scalia? So Obama appoints to SCOTUS a representative of the revolving door between regulatory agencies and those who are regulated. This is not what I signed up for. Decade by decade we continue to make progress, who ever thought gays could be real people or you could smoke pot for fun without going to jail? In most cases, ballot initiatives got the ball rolling. Threatening true Progressives with having blood on their hands shows how little you value voters’ right to vote their conscience. Herd thinking is the only excuse for a second Clinton in the White House.

          • HanBarbara

            Oh for fcuks sake. Being a grownup means that you sometimes have to choose between two things that you are not crazy about, because one will get you closer to where you want to be.
            And don’t lecture us about Obama. He’s earned the contempt and excoriation of a good part of the country for his positions on immigrants, gay marriage, and religious tolerance.

          • lovecrumb

            This is not the first time, nor the last time a Sanders supporter has been told to grow up. As long as Democrats dismiss Progressives, you are looking at the possibility of a seismic party shift akin to 1968. It’s happening to the Republicans, too, so instead of telling people the Party has been begging for decades to show up to grow up, maybe just let history take its course and stay out of the way of those who are willing to fight and sacrifice for a future … yes that’s right, that we believe in.

          • HanBarbara

            You have a lot of passion for your cause. That’s great. I hope your candidate gets the nomination. As obnoxious as the Bernie Bros are, I’ll take them over Republican Frat Boys any day. I’m glad to see this kind of passion on our side for once. All I’m saying is if your candidate loses, don’t give up, and don’t stay home.

          • GDleftyPart2

            If you give up and stay home, you get a country that will operate like Arizona.

          • lovecrumb

            Also good job Obama, for reading the tea leaves and coming out smelling like roses after supporting One Man One Woman, deporting more undocumented workers than any president in history, and not being a communist Muslim but it’s OK if YOU are.

          • Llareggub

            Instead of being victims take responsibility for your mistake and learn from it. Democrats and liberals voting united was a safety net that would have prevented it from going to Jeb and Supreme Court.

          • jmhm

            People died. Nader, who ran again as a spoiler in 2004 with openly Republican backing, considered it the price of his revolution, what with heightening the contradiction and all.

            Nobody’s threatening to put anything on your hands that isn’t already there. Me, I say being reminded is just another cost of the great revolution. Be grateful you get to be one of the people still alive to pay it.

        • Iam Reading

          To lay this at Nader voters is spurious and overly simplistic. Liberian for VP? Gore running away from Clinton and substantially agreeing with W in debates. FL butterfly ballots, etc. Purists don’t vote establishment, so to say those votes would have gone to Gore is highly questionable. And before you jump my shit, please understand that I live and vote in Idaho. Idaho votes for Republicans in national contests somewhere in the 70% range. So I didn’t cause Gore to fail

          • Llareggub

            Why not lay it at Nader voters? Gore would have been the first environmental president, but he was too establishment for Nader voters, so 16 years of inaction on climate change is bad enough in itself, let alone, to contemplate all the Bush damage.
            400 votes difference in Florida when the count started. Wanna bet there were more than 400 Nader voters? And don’t forget the Democrats and liberals begging people not to risk it, but the voters for Nader aren’t responsible for egging each other on and piling on Gore? He won the popular vote, so it’s not like his message wasn’t working.

      • Bill Slider

        Third party candidates in our system can, and do, throw elections when the third party candidate grabs 5% of the vote. It can impact races at the state level as well. Kasich is preventing Cruz from winning enough delegates to win the nomination prior to the convention, which is why Kasich remains in the hunt. Watch as the Eastern primaries unfold.

    • Boojum

      Or being a plaintiff’s employment discrimination lawyer, whose career will go in the toilet.

    • Boojum

      Now, now, he said “the Secretary” which is the correct way to refer to her.

      • QHarp

        Yeah, I know. It’s just that particular way of phrasing it leaves a bad taste in the mouth (hey-o!).

      • Courser

        It was a flat out shitty way to refer to Sen Clinton. Basically the same bullshit dogwhistle that the Rethugs do all the fucking time.

        Stick a fork in me, I’m done with the Bernie Bullshit.

      • cleos_mom

        She made good coffee for the meetings but then she got “ambitious”.

      • cat cafe

        No, it would be Secretary Clinton, actually. No one called Colin Powell “the Secretary.”

    • Iam Reading

      Some of us live in states that vote 60-70% republican. So, there are instances where it doesn’t matter, as long as one still votes in the down ticket races, which always matter

      • QHarp

        That’s fair. I’m from, and still live in, the South, so I feel you, friend. And realistically, my vote will probably mean fuck-all this year same as it has in previous years, but (but!) I think there may be a chance to capitalize the Trump divide. At any rate, I learned my lesson from not voting in 2000– mine is one more vote against having any one of those of those Reagan-blowing weaseldicks in the White House.

      • jmhm

        There was an active market in voters in deep red states trading votes with Nader supporters in purple states who wanted to make a point without blowing shit up. I thought it was a clever idea at the time.

    • joebags

      I am in the best of all possible worlds here–I can afford to vote on principle in the presidential election because my vote doesn’t matter even a little bit (which I bet could be said for most of the posters in this thread.) Also, when Hillary does become President, I will have a President that I have such low expectations of that she couldn’t possibly disappoint me.

      • Lamashtar

        Meanwhile, we who live in purple states live in terror lest we be unable to scrape and claw enough votes. :(

    • starfanglednut

      I have an acquaintance in the climate movement who has taken up the Bernie or bust position because of the urgency of the climate situation–the rationale being that 4 years of Trump will somehow snap people out of their lethargic stupors and bring about a true revolution. I mentioned the Supreme Court to her, and she told me that was a “tired argument.” Argh. It’s only a tired argument to people whose voting rights are secure, who won’t be effected by a repeal of roe v wade, etc etc. The level of privilege is appalling.

      • jmhm

        You’d think that your acquaintance would look at the impact on the environment of that other guy who wanted to heighten the contradictions and apply a little rational thought, but I guess their parents have a place above the water line they can repair to.

      • cleos_mom

        That’s a political version of the whacko fundie faction that looks forward eagerly to global slaughter and chaos. They believe it will hasten Jesus’ return to reward the righteous and beat the crap out of the wrongteous.

  • lovecrumb

    The NYD News can’t tell the Fed apart from the Treasury Dept., so when asking about the Fed when they were talking about Treasury oversight, is really a … low blow. For you to run with this a proof positive that he knows nothing about how Dodd-Frank could be implemented is disingenuous. And are you criticizing the only Jew to ever run for President, on the lack of a clearly thought out series of hypotheticals in Israel he has no control over? COME ON.

    Oh, and I would love to meet your aunt. Because the act of buying off Superdelegates in August as an act of supreme fealty to democracy is really interesting.

    • Apple Scruff

      It was bound to happen.

      • lovecrumb

        You are so smart, too smart by half.

    • HanBarbara

      Look, you are essentially preaching to the choir. We like Bernie. We really do. I estimate that 100% of the people on this website would vote for him if he were the Dem candidate. You don’t need to tell us how great he is. But if he loses, and Hillary is the candidate we will get over whatever residual disappointment we might have and vote for her. Because we don’t want a President Cruz or Trump.

    • rebecca

      for me to run with this? I haven’t said a word about the NYDN article. So …
      what the fuck are you talking about?

      • lovecrumb

        Sorry, you have never seen me before, because disqus never lets me log in. I finally got in, today. I cut and paste this after fails to log in 3 times because I knew it would be lost before it would post. It is a reply to another comment, and it got posted as a stand alone.

        • rebecca

          okay

    • ryp

      I suggest you reread the NYDN interview. What was being discussed were both the Feds ability to break up too large banks under Dodd-Frank ( Rule 121), and whether Bernie felt the administration might be granted similar ability through Treasury.

  • Boojum

    How much does Wonkette weigh? And is it sold by the pound?

  • Apple Scruff

    I must say, it’s been fun watching all of Bernie’s surrogates trying to spin away his foot-in-mouth problems these past 24 hours. Just now, Ben Jealous said that Hillary made up “Bernie Bros”.

    • lovecrumb

      Is it fun, because I assure you the feeling is mutual. Watching people defend neoliberalism and call out Progressives as Bots and Bros in an effort to dismiss them, really gets my LOLler going.

      • Apple Scruff

        NO! You’re fun!

      • feloneouscat

        Never mind she isn’t a neoliberal, at least no more so than Sanders.

        • lovecrumb

          Mmmkay. So the 100 million from Wall Street over the course of her and Bill’s career was just, what, a token of affection? Sanders is trying to ameliorate the effects of capitalism. Not profit from it.

          • Bemused

            Read her history (not the Republican talking points). She’s been consistently involved in national and international women’s and children’s for her entire career, health care for the last 25, and often environmental and poverty work. So, yes, she’s taken money from Wall Street, but yes, her liberal credentials are good.

          • Lamashtar

            The moonbats tell me that Birdie is perpetuating the inherently unfair capitalist system, and is a socialist in name only.

          • JaaaaaCeeeee

            Every doctor whose prescribing behavior was affected by how much money they got from pharma in the 1990’s was shocked at the character assassins using cherry picked numbers, who did not know what it means to be a doctor, with a career of fighting for patients, their number one priority. For a while.

            I personally think that Hillary Clinton campaigning on Chuck Schumer to be majority leader of the Senate will break the Democratic party, but I don’t think you get anywhere with this kind of theorizing.

            I agree with criticism of Jeff Weaver saying it’s HRC’s ambition that could destroy the party, even if that were true, because it’s counterproductive without specifics (becomes little more than name calling).

            Maybe that’s why Bernie’s approach was to list specifics he considers disqualifying, unlike Weaver, not theorize. I think Clinton’s Fallon saying no debates until Sanders improves his tone, and today that the Sanders campaign needs a time-out, are at least as bad as anything Weaver has ever said.

            It really is divisive for Barney Frank to repeatedly call Sanders voters low information voters. Sanders’ are the most educated ever, but both candidates rely on low information voters.

            It is destructive for Hillary Clinton to say some are voting for Sanders because they are too lazy to want to work 10 hours toward their degrees.

            It really is destructive for Hillary to say she feels sorry for young voters who don’t do their own research, don’t listen to independent fact checkers (of corporate media, ha), and prefer to be deliberately mislead by Bernie Sanders.

            If Hillary Clinton speculates that voters just want free stuff, that doesn’t justify saying Clinton is ambitious for more public power to leverage for private gain, at the expense of the voters she says she is fighting for.

          • Lamashtar

            Is someone paying you? You keep repeating the same talking points.

          • JaaaaaCeeeee

            you caught me, yeah, david brock and those Wall Streeters who attack Hillary Clinton.

          • Llareggub

            “It really is divisive for Barney Frank to repeatedly call Sanders voters low information voters. Sanders’ are the most educated ever…”

            I’m afraid I’m going to need some citation on that educated part, because they seem to have a very tenuous grasp of how the policies of the Republican party are to blame for most of what they are laying at Clinton’s feet in the 1990’s. I feel sure that those over 35 realize that had Clinton thought it was a bad idea to unseat Bush and waited another election or two to run, that the crime bill and welfare reform would have happened without any doubt whatsoever in a Bush second term. See Michael Dukakis and the old “Democrats are soft on crime and defense” speeches.”

            You might want to find the clip from Chris Hayes yesterday where Frank schooled Robert Reich on how the Dodd Frank bill worked before you dispute his point about information.

          • JaaaaaCeeeee

            Barney Frank keeps calling low information, while Hillary laments their willingness to be misled, the generation with the highest educational achievement, the one that knows about instant fact checking,

            Barney Frank called Sanders McCarthyite again. Frank had a completely nonsense response to counter Sanders’, former Cititgroup head Sandy Weill’s, president of the MPLS Fed Kashkari’s and others’ contention: that our TBTF banks should be broken up and Elizabeth Warren’s Glass Steagal passed.

            Frank seemed to think that asking “but how small do you want them to be?” explains why we shouldn’t break up banks that can’t produce living wills and why we don’t need Senator Warren’s bill. Frank was also unable to give an example of Sanders being incoherent, which was Barney Frank’s judgement of Sanders’ NY Daily News interview.

            It seems to be playing well with some of the media and Clinton supporters, but Clinton, her campaign, media, and surrogates like Barney Frank are using only straw man and non sequitor arguments, to claim Bernie Sanders didn’t know what he was talking about, when Sanders demonstrated far more understanding than Clinton does.

          • Llareggub

            The reason Frank kept asking it was to point out the major weakness in Sander’s understanding of the bill, and that he was being fundamentally dishonest, or uninformed, by repeatedly saying he wants to break up the bank. Frank pointed out that it wouldn’t actually solve anything, but that not letting them get into debt would. Frank was mocking him by asking for a level, because it was absurd for Reich to keep repeating it, and he knew it. It was not nonsense, but as Chris Hayes put it “illuminating.”

          • feloneouscat

            Which is not neoliberalism. I really tire of people who pretend they know something of the social sciences. Thatcher, Reagan and Bush II were neoliberal.

            Getting paid, even if it is by Wall Street, does not make you a neoliberal.

          • lovecrumb

            THE RULE OF THE MARKET. Liberating “free” enterprise or private enterprise from any bonds imposed by the government (the state) no matter how much social damage this causes. Greater openness to international trade and investment, as in NAFTA. Reduce wages by de-unionizing workers and eliminating workers’ rights that had been won over many years of struggle. No more price controls. All in all, total freedom of movement for capital, goods and services. To convince us this is good for us, they say “an unregulated market is the best way to increase economic growth, which will ultimately benefit everyone.” It’s like Reagan’s “supply-side” and “trickle-down” economics — but somehow the wealth didn’t trickle down very much.

            CUTTING PUBLIC EXPENDITURE FOR SOCIAL SERVICES like education and health care. REDUCING THE SAFETY-NET FOR THE POOR, and even maintenance of roads, bridges, water supply — again in the name of reducing government’s role. Of course, they don’t oppose government subsidies and tax benefits for business.

            DEREGULATION. Reduce government regulation of everything that could diminsh profits, including protecting the environmentand safety on the job.

            PRIVATIZATION. Sell state-owned enterprises, goods and services to private investors. This includes banks, key industries, railroads, toll highways, electricity, schools, hospitals and even fresh water. Although usually done in the name of greater efficiency, which is often needed, privatization has mainly had the effect of concentrating wealth even more in a few hands and making the public pay even more for its needs.

            ELIMINATING THE CONCEPT OF “THE PUBLIC GOOD” or “COMMUNITY” and replacing it with “individual responsibility.” Pressuring the poorest people in a society to find solutions to their lack of health care, education and social security all by themselves — then blaming them, if they fail, as “lazy.”

            What part of this definition does not exactly match the policies of the Clinton dynasty? Between NAFTA, gutting welfare, repealing Glass-Stegall, and Hillary trying to pave the way for Keystone XL while she was Secretary of State, they have done more damage to progressive ideals than any Republican could have dreamed of doing. The Third Way is a neoliberal institution, and fully has its grip on the DNC.

          • feloneouscat

            A valiant effort, but you’re still getting a C- in polisci.

            What did Clinton privatize? What did she make the rule of the market? What did she deregulate? When did she eliminate the concept of “public good” or “community”?

            HRC wrote a fucking book titled, “It Takes a Village to Raise a Child”. No doubt you never read that either.

            So, no, Clinton is not a neoliberal.

            HRC didn’t put a single vote in for NAFTA. Not one. HRC also did not repeal the Glass–Steagall (the correct spelling). She was FLOTUS at the time. Glass–Steagall would not have stopped 2008 (there is vigorous arguments amongst economists, but I was watching TWO YEARS before it went into the shitter – as was the Fed).

            Who else was for Keystone? Why, damn, if it wasn’t our current President Obama!!! And he changed his mind. That’s how the political process works.

            To you, HRC is a neoliberal because she has the last name of Clinton.

            To me, I want facts. So far all you managed to give is shit her husband did. Sorry, HRC and Bill are not the same person.

          • GodBlessRealAmerica!!

            You get F in Posting on these boards you seem ignorant, low energy and liberal! When Trump WINS will you leave the country like Johnny atheist liberal pig Depp? I ll pay for your tickett

          • feloneouscat

            You get F in Posting on these boards you seem ignorant, low energy and liberal!

            Since I posted FACTS and you posted … actually, you didn’t post anything but slurs. Where are your facts?

            When Trump WINS will you leave the country like Johnny atheist liberal pig Depp? I ll pay for your tickets

            Trump will not win.

            Trump is like our Le Pen (look up French elections). He appeals to the White Nationalists who are too ignorant to understand that he will not, can not bring jobs back to the US.

            Why? Because business makes too much money outsourcing. And who do you think a rich man feels empathy for? The poor or the rich?

          • GodBlessRealAmerica!!

            I get an A only Liberal democrackhead low energy give us a bad grade because they to ignorant to understand….

            TRUMP will Win who are you to say he won’t … How dare you
            you don’t have a clue America has awoken we will ELECT DONALD TRUMP AS OUR NEXT PRESIDENT!!! Sit down liberals and watch we comin to take back America whether u like it or not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sit down Jobs creation is Trump!

          • feloneouscat

            1. The Rule of the Market

            Bill Clinton is not Hillary Clinton. Do not assume that one is the other. They are not.

            2. CUTTING SOCIAL SERVICES

            Again, where has Hillary Clinton done this?

            3. DEREGULATION

            Proof?

            4. PRIVATIZATION

            Proof?

            5. ELIMINATING THE CONCEPT OF “THE PUBLIC GOOD” or “COMMUNITY”

            Recall, it was HRC who recommended that we have universal healthcare and was attacked because of that.

            She started the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families.

            She wrote It Takes A Village in 1996.

            Let’s back up because first it appears you were not born when Bill Clinton was President and Hillary Clinton had no votes.

            All that Bill Clinton did was ENTIRELY on him. Hillary Clinton had ZERO votes. In fact the welfare law was VETOED by him originally, because he felt it went too far. Hillary Clinton had no votes to repeal Glass-Stegall. This was all Bill Clinton.

            You know who else was for Keystone XL? President Obama. He fought for it, even into the 2012 election. You can just piss off because a) you don’t have a clue and b) if I gave you a clue you would still be clueless.

            Let me explain how things work in the White House. The Secretary of State works for, yes, she WORKED FOR, the POTUS. She did what President Obama wanted – not the other way around. You are confusing the boss with the employee.

            So, unless you are arguing that somehow Hillary Clinton was actually Bill Clinton in disguise or that the Secretary of State does whatever the fuck they want, you don’t know what you are talking about.

            She is no more a neoliberal than Sanders is.

            Sanders voted for the Crime Omnibus bill. Hillary Clinton did not.

            Sanders voted for bombing of Kosovo. Hillary Clinton did not.

            Sanders voted for the No Child Left Behind Act. Hillary Clinton did not.

            Sanders voted for the AUMF to invade Afghanistan, but he said it was merely “symbolic” – either a lie or ignorance. You decide.

            Sanders argued he has worked 50 years for civil rights, but no one can seem to show anything other than he marched with thousands of others on Washington. Since then, what did he do to help people of color? Anything?

            While argue that Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton are somehow the same person, you ignore the very real votes and very real damage that Sanders had perpetuated.

            This is how much Sanders cares: his FIRST bill on Universal Healthcare was in 2013. TWENTY YEARS earlier, Hillary Clinton led the task force on National Health Care Reform.

            http://www.c-span.org/video/?52784-1/presidential-health-care-proposal

            Notice Sanders behind Clinton? He ended up trying to pass single-payer healthcare in Vermont (where it died). Tried to get HRC to change to single-payer where she is said to have responded, “Tell me something real.”

            She is a better politician than Sanders who still retains this belief that the President can do things by law he can not (and puts them on his web site).

            The reality is that Sanders is not very realistic about what change is viable.

        • GodBlessRealAmerica!!

          TRUMP 2016 MAKE AMERICA GREAT & defeat these liberal low energy racist losers!

      • jmhm

        So Bernie is 93% a neoliberal. Good to know.

  • urgelt

    Corruption is the establishment way of doing business. Some of us are perfectly willing replace it with honest service to the 100%.

  • Candy Apple

    I don’t get it. The Republican alternatives are so obviously bad that I am happy to have any Democrat, any at all in the White House next January, I don’t care which one it is. At this point, I’d willingly vote for Black Philip the Devil Goat from the movie The Witch, if he was the Dem frontrunner.

    So what if it’s Hillary, so what if it’s Bernie? Just thank fuck it’s not Cruz or Trump.

    • SullivanSt

      To that end, there’s every reason to suspect the number of people saying in the primaries that they would not vote for their party’s nominee if it’s not the particular individual they most support will be very different from the number of people who actually stray. Think of it as a negotiating tactic.

      That said, there’s also a good evidence that both Bernie and Trump have drawn in a number of people primarily, in some cases exclusively, because of their “outsider” vibe, so there are likely some number of Bernie supporters whose second choice is Trump. These are people that do not think about the actual problems facing the nation.

      • starfanglednut

        I kinda think that some of the Bernie bros and chicks screaming loudly on the internet about how they’ll NEVAR vote for Clinton might not even get off the couch to vote even if Bernie does win the election.

        • SullivanSt

          Probably a small number, but those are probably people who’d never have gotten off the couch for anyone, so no loss, and it’s probably not unique to Bernie.

          On the other hand there are likely a good number of Bernie supporters who just wouldn’t have paid attention (or gotten off the couch) without him and some of whom will now totally punch their ballot for whoever the Democratic candidate ends up being, so win there.

      • feministing

        i think they’ve drawn the same crowd because both campaigns are fantasies built on hate and anger but that’s just my pov

        • SullivanSt

          That’s a false equivalency and a low blow.

          The fantasy in Sanders’ platform is that it might be possible to get it through our shitbag Congress. I think Gerald Friedman’s analysis of the economics of his policies is flawed – the employment projection is unrealistically rosy and the lack of consideration of inflation is a big problem – but the point is a sensible and respected (Clinton-supporting) economist ran standard modelling and said yes, Bernienomics would work and work well, and my concerns affect only degree. The fantasy in Trump’s campaign is that he has a platform at all, that whatever wordspew most recently ejected from his mouth could happen, and that it would work in the way he says.

          I don’t see hate in Bernie’s campaign, it pervades Trump’s.

          The anger in the Sanders camp is directed at genuine injustice, a set of actions that have demonstrably harmed the economy, and a system that objectively deprives most Americans of a political voice. Trump directs the anger of grievance at the erosion of unearned privilege towards the standard scapegoats targeted by tyrants.

          • feministing

            nope. sanders is using 25 years of right wing talking points in order to whip up hatred for clinton in his young, inexperienced voters. sanders directs all the ills of the world at clinton. clinton directs all the ills of the world at the gop. this is indisputable.

            hate is hate. anger is anger. even when it comes from the left. even when it’s sexism.

          • SullivanSt

            Call me when Sanders offers to pay legal fees if his supporters kick the shit out of a protester, or implies that an entire nation’s population are rapists.

            It’s also eminently disputable that “Sanders directs all the ills of the world at Clinton”. While the elbows have been sharp and this “unqualified” nonsense is unmitigated bullshit, plus Weaver insisting that the plainly misleading WaPo headline is actually true is totally fucked up, it’s still indisputably the case that Sanders spends a lot of time decrying people other than Hillary.

          • feministing

            she is to blame for wall street. she is to blame for the iraq war. she is to blame for mass incarceration. shall i go on? please remember, these are his words, not mine. he doesn’t have to be as sweepingly sexist as trump is racist because he has concentrated all of his sexism into hatred for hillary.

            this is a woman telling you what he is doing and i’m not going to beg you to see how dangerous that is. agree to disagree.

          • SullivanSt

            Her hands aren’t squeaky clean on any of those issues, but yes his criticisms are overblown. Do you understand that not everybody will see them as gendered attacks, though? They seem issue based, in areas where two politicians significant disagreement on most things differ (reminiscent of the way the 2008 primary got nasty). I’m sure we can agree to agree about the shushing at the debate though, that was horrible.

          • Llareggub

            I am starting to think when people yell it isn’t sexist to hate Hillary in a deranged, unbridled, and way beyond all perspective of her actions manner, that they sound just people who said the same treatment wasn’t racist with Obama. .

          • jmhm

            I’m not sure that’s entirely true. There is a pretty steady stream of material coming from the Sanders campaign to feed the griefers, judging from how on message with the campagn’s latest talking points they appear to be.

    • YourNameHere

      I would 100% back a Devil Goat.

  • SullivanSt

    The question of fundraising for the party, the fact that Hillary is already doing it in big numbers while Bernie told Rachel Maddow “we’ll see” if he’ll maybe get around to it sometime after winning the nomination, has finally caused me to come down from the fence about who I’d prefer.

    I’m now a Hillary guy.

    The Democratic party and base’s lack of attention to non-Presidential elections is why Wisconsin law is now deeply hostile to unions. It’s why Ohio has passed a fuckton of anti-abortion laws. It’s why the states of North Carolina and Mississippi have taken giant dumps on their LGBT citizens. It’s why even with our roads crumbling and our bridges falling apart, and unemployment still high, there is no prospect of Congress passing a large infrastructure bill.

    A President with a hostile Congress is just yelling at the wind. Bernie has great policies, but gives every outward sign of being entirely uninterested in the process of enacting them.

    • orygoon

      “We’ll see” = “Hell no!” –as any parent, or person with parents or a crusty old uncle knows perfectly well.

      • SullivanSt

        I’m actually prepared to believe that he simply hasn’t thought about it long enough to reach a decision. Even though the amount of thought-time I think it should take a candidate running for a party’s nomination to make that decision is about a millisecond.

    • JK3

      I think you are forgetting about the part of the revolution where he disappears or purges the non believers.

      • cleos_mom

        No True Believer ever expects that part.

    • starfanglednut

      I voted for Bernie in the mass primary because of climate change, where, I feel, he is decidedly the stronger candidate. I never really took the whole free college, legal weed, etc etc thing seriously, seeing it as a way to get millennial votes, but I felt good about my choice. I think bernie’s taking his base for a bit of a ride there, but, politics being what it is, I don’t expect or need a candidate to have total authenticity.

      I’m now in the very uncomfortable position of being a self-loathing Bernie supporter. We absolutely DO need a revolution in this country, but how exactly does Bernie think he’s going to make that happen?

      And the misogyny directed at Hilz, particularly from the left, infuriates me to no end.

      • SullivanSt

        Reality is the only way you’re going to get a candidate you love everything about is if you’re as big of a narcissist as Donald Trump and you run yourself. For the rest of us, there’s always going to be something we don’t like among hopefully a really big bag of what we do.

        • Lamashtar

          How dare you bring logic into this!

      • bluicebank

        I don’t think anyone knows how to get a revolution. If that were true, we’d have one by now.

        All people can do is try. Try this, try that. It’s the ones who try I support. Occupy Wall Street, while it didn’t start the revolution, at least shone a light on the corruption of Wall Street and income disparity, when no one else was. At least Bernie Sanders is trying to begin the revolution we need regarding climate change, Wall Street, health care reform, and big money in politics.

        • Zyxomma

          Occupy was a start.

  • AnOuthouse

    Hillary was a GOLDWATER REPUBLICAN before 1971! She’s was a Tea Partiér before there was a Tea Party. She’s been ambitioning under cover since then just waiting for her chance to SEIZE our DEMOCRACY and cram the OLIGARCH’S NEW WORLD ORDER down our THROATS!

    • GDleftyPart2

      Finally some throat cramming.

    • Bemused

      *hands you ice for your brain* Ouch! That must have hurt!

    • Bemused

      (in 1964, when she was a kid)

      • jmhm

        What, you mean people have enthusiastic but mistaken political opinions when they’re young?

    • Grokenstein

      Boating for HITLARY will only prolonnnng the static quote! Bernie of the Birdies will set off a REVOLOOOOTION that those of us with the least to lose have a bonar for, because it will lead to VICTORY OF TEH PEEPLE, at which point we will wade forward from our safe spots and take credit and assume command! And then you will be glad Birdie defended gun manufacturers from lawsuits! You’ll see! You’ll ALL see!

    • jmhm

      Wow. That Salon article really made an impact on the three people who read it.

      • cleos_mom

        Inspired ’em to to give the caps lock button a workout, it did.

  • Magic Juan

    Here’s a good hillary fatally attraction to go with the St. Bernie
    http://patriotretort.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Dance-with-the-one-that-brung-ya.jpg

    • Candy Apple

      That’s hilarious!

    • Proud Liberal

      I love it!

    • The Witch of Endor

      FTW.

  • SadDemInTex

    Can’t we all just get along? We have two great candidates.

    • Hardly Ideal

      As a friend once said, Who needs friends when you can have HUGE ARGUMENTS?

      • SullivanSt

        And how did you respond?

        • natoslug

          Fuck you, and the little pony you rode in on!

        • Hardly Ideal

          If memory serves, I replied “NO U” and punched him in the snout to assert dominance.

  • natoslug

    I’m voting for the demoncrat, regardless of whether its Duggaring area is an innie, an outie, or a perfect Ken & Barbie featureless wasteland. Not because I want to toe a party line, but because, no matter what their flaws, our candidates are so far removed from the suckitude that comprises the GOP option that it feels like they are running for President in entirely different universes.

    • SullivanSt

      And also never forget, the first past the post method of voting is the one that most vigorously promotes voting against unfavored candidates over voting for favored ones.

      This is why turnout is lower in FPTP systems.

  • ViveLaRes

    Make it stop.

  • geoffalnutt

    Hillary Scissorhands? Ties in nicely with the lesbian imagery, also too…and a lot. She and Jade Helm have been on the ‘down low’ (so to speak) for ages.

  • Grokenstein

    Damn, I can only dream of snarking like this someday.

  • Malmborg Implano

    I hear she has the head of a snake and her body’s made of splinters and if you look into her eyes you see like the worst things imaginable, like spider’s eggs or a farmer’s bum!

    • timpundit

      I hear he has the head of a lion. And the body of a lion.
      But, not the same lion.

      (Hat tip to Woody Allen.)

    • Spotts1701

      Does she also teach horses to dance and pigs to fly, or keep the moon carefully hidden within the folds of her robe?

    • cleos_mom
  • Blank Ron

    Any deleted commenter <waves to all> who claims we godless libs march in lockstep will not have read this thread.

    • MausFeet

      Oh, they have read it. Now understanding what they’re reading….

    • Lamashtar

      Its why a Democratically controlled Congress is an oxymoron. :/

  • The Witch of Endor

    I’d like to see Bernie as president though I have no problem with either candidate. But damn! Their extremist supporters make me want to move to Canada. And that Justin Trudeau is simply DREAMY!

    • YourNameHere

      He is dreamy.

      • starfanglednut

        Oh oh. The bunk room’s gonna start getting crowded again.

    • feministing

      this isn’t his supporters, sanders said this himself.

      • The Witch of Endor

        Sorry that I implied it was his supporters who said she wasn’t qualified for president. I meant to refer to some of the more…vocal supporters that I’ve been seeing on social media. More specifically I don’t understand the attitude that if Bernie doesn’t get the nomination many of them have proudly stated that they’ll either write him in or just not vote. One friend actually paraphrased Susan Sarandon’s comment that better Trump become president because REVOLUTION.

  • Yr. Gma

    I am at peace with myself. Way back last year, I decided I would vote for Hillary when I had to but not before. I will be voting for Bernie in our very late California primary, but if Hillary becomes my party’s nominee, I’ll hold my nose and vote for her. (This will not be easy since we have the old fashioned paper ballots requiring one to make a line to connect two halves of an arrow without doing it wrong as warned right there on the ballot.)

    • AnOuthouse

      Can you bring a straight edge into the booth ?

      • JustDon’tSayDittos

        “Booth?” You’re funny. We almost all vote by mail.

        • cleos_mom

          That’s nice, dear.

      • UnsaltedSinner

        I was told there would be no geometry.

    • thenearesthippie

      I once had a friend who failed to connect the arrow halves properly. She unexpectedly left for “vacation” a week later. Hasn’t been seen since.

      What I’m saying is, heed the warning.

      • Yr. Gma

        I live in fear.

  • RobKanC

    I suspect Sanders is a republican plant meant to divide the democratic party so they can get someone like Cruz, who is ordinarily unelectable, elected. And its working, instead of celebrating how we are going to have our first women president, half the Bernie supporters will sit out and let the republicans win. And then spend the following 8 years about how bad it is.

    • joebags

      They will? Did you see it happen? ARE YOU FROM THE FUTURE?!?

    • jmhm

      I don’t think Sanders is a Republican plant. I think Weaver would probably be open to offers moving forward, but I don’t think he’s doing it on purpose to break the Democrats. I think his most noisome supporters – a disproportionately communicative fraction of his overall support – are absolutely the usual thug suspects who cheered on Nader and did their level best to offend Hillary supporters out of the party.

      This is, though, we’ve seen this before. And the one time it worked, the people who got in broke the world. And pretty much no-one who is in this for the right reasons is going to let it happen again. And we never had those other votes to begin with.

      • RobKanC

        I was being a bit snarky. The general tone of Sanders has gone a lot dark these days. And I am pissed that he said she is not qualified. She has been a two term senator from NY, Secretary of State and a lifelong democrat. And somehow she is not qualified. But somehow I gotta trust this dude from Vermont, who is running as a democrat for the media attention, as more qualified.

  • whatevah-goze

    dang aggressive wimin folk. I’ll bet she raised her voice and didn’t even smile!

    What is an old codger to do? ;)

  • Courser

    I’ve been very respectful and accepting of Bernie supporters because I would be happy with either of them getting the nomination. Unfortunately that’s over now that Bernie’s started this bullshit. And while the Dems are still a long way from the insane clown posse on the Repub side, but I have extremely little patience from the Dems this time around. Indicting Hillary for supporting other Dems? Total horseshit. We desperately NEED to elect more Dems up and down the ENTIRE ticket so Bernie’s divisive strategy at this point disqualifies him from nomination in my world.

    Dems don’t need this disgusing trollspew! I reject it! Besides, it makes me cry.

    • whatevah-goze

      We do have our own tea party, but most of this nonesense is being whipped up by the media and not the candidates. They need something to talk about for two weeks. They will turn up the heat as much as they can, but it doesn’t mean anything is in the pot.

      • Courser

        I don’t listen/read much mainstream media crap. This bullshit is coming straight from Bernie’s mouth.

        • whatevah-goze

          I won’t argue that he seemed really unhinged over it. But the fact it hasn’t blown over is entirely the media. And the more they push it, the more crazy he will sound. Not a bad thing really. ;)

      • puipui

        Bernie said in a speech yesterday that Hillary “isn’t qualified to be president”. If it’s only coming from supporters then they are really good ventriloquists.

        I am extremely upset with the Bernie vampaign right now, and I say that as a Bernie delegate.

        • whatevah-goze

          You are correct. He did say it. She didn’t. He is coming unhinged and it isn’t pretty.

          But I’ve been watching msnbc in the background and they are stoking the fires as high as they will go. It’s all they have. They are beating it past death.

        • feministing

          how does that work? if you are a delegate for one but something huge happens that makes you lose support, can you change your vote? could you abstain from voting at all?

          • puipui

            I don’t actually know how that works. I feel like it’s my obligation to show up at our county caucus and vote Bernie, because that’s how I pledged to vote, but I’ve never actually done this before. :(

          • Spotts1701

            Were there alternate delegates selected? If so, and there is an alternate delegate available, contact your county party office and state you can’t serve as a delegate. They would then contact the alternate.

          • feministing

            instead of sitting out, i would ask if you can vote undecided/unpledged, or if worst comes to worst change your vote to clinton (if you so decide), rather than not attend because it would be a pretty awesome thing to take part in. pretty sure pledged delegates can still choose to change their vote, which is why campaigns try to select the most devout supporters with the least chance of switching sides.

          • Lamashtar

            I thought delegates *have* to vote for the original choice on the first ballot. Its the succeeding ballots that you can change.

    • feministing

      don’t read about how sanders voters had the ballot IN THEIR HAND when they went to vote in WI and either didn’t vote at all for a justice, or actually voted for bradley, then or else you’ll have a stroke. this is what these “young, passionate” voters have brought the state of wisconsin.

  • Truthiness2U

    Oh noes! The assholishness is coming From Inside The House!!

    Seriously, Weaver, Devine, and even Bernie now, need to pull it together. Take a deep breath, and remember we are trying to beat the Repubs. Just namaste on how much those fuckers suck (and not in good ways) and find their Repub ass-kicking bliss instead of succumbing to the dark side of fucking each other over.

  • Bill Slider

    So, the Pope supports Bernie, thought so. Think I will wait for the Cleric Bernie merchandise.

  • Scooby

    The important question here is how big are Hillarys hand daggers?

  • OrdinaryJoe

    Ms. Close in one of my favorite movie dresses of all time. Thanks.

  • Jenny

    What a cunt Hitlery is for continually raising money for Democratic causes for the past 20 years. I mean it’s not like you need money to compete in politics or anything.

    Oh what’s that Mr. Senator from Vermont? You joined the Democratic party because you need its money (raised by your opponent no less) to run for President?? You don’t say?!

    Political Revolution, party of one. Your table is ready. Dinner will be served cold.

    • AnOuthouse

      According to this CNN thing, Bernie is a hypocrite for raising giant $$ for the Dems. You can’t win.

      http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/05/politics/sanders-democratic-fundraisers/

      • Jenny

        I think we all know the party fund raising system and the amount of money in politics is obscene. No one is arguing that part.

        It’s the part where he drags Hillary through the mud for being a cog in the same machine he’s a part of and willingly joined. So yeah he is a hypocrite.

        • Takoma DC

          Would you have rathered he run as a 3rd party candidate? THAT would’ve been bad for the dems. I don’t think it’s hypocrisy to play by the rules that those in power created.

          I myself would prefer a political system where more parties have access to political influence but the dems and repubs have set the game rules that this is a very unlikely scenario. At least for the next 15-20 years.

          There’s a reason we only have 2 parties that are taken seriously in the U.S. And the reason is not good, ethical, moral or for anything positive other than to give the reigns of power to a small elite few.

          • rebecca

            Nope! I’m glad he’s running as a Dem. A third party candidacy would well and truly fuck us all.

          • King of America

            you need a drop mic gif after that.

          • EW

            He would have gotten zero traction as 3rd party candidate. Even Bernie has admitted that.

          • Takoma DC

            Yes. I agree. That was my point.

          • cleos_mom

            But ti would fuck him too so don’t polish the halo yet.

          • Jenny

            1). Despite Bernie’s independent cred, he’s benefitted from state and national level Democratic party support. Aaaaall the way back to the 80’s. As much as his supporters claim the DNC is drowning him out, it’s absolutely nothing in comparison if he ran third party. Nader was a lesson. He’d never get off the ground. Not to mention the field day to be had. Whackadoo loonbird who talks to rats on the subway comes to mind.

            2) He’s been treated with kid gloves as a party member because surprise no one actually hates Bernie and no one in the party wants to destroy him. When the primary is over, he will still be Bernie. He will still be a welcome member and fundraiser. Again, something he signed up for.

            3) He takes money from the same wealthy donors Hillary does. He might “need” to but don’t sit on a soap box like he is somehow the more pious whore because he charges less than the one next door.

            Which is the point here. He and his surrogates have repeatedly attacked on the same line, in which he is guilty of. He gets a pass because why??

            He doesn’t. Not from me.

          • JustDon’tSayDittos

            Preach!

          • John Nace

            1) He’s also caucused with the Democrats throughout his congressional career, and the party has benefited from his support and his vote in a number of important close votes. It’s not as though there’s no symbiotic relationship between Sanders and the Democratic Party. There’s no viable reason for refusing to give him the benefit of any doubt when it comes to his decision to run within the party system rather than running outside it.

            2) He hasn’t been treated with kid gloves as much as he’s been treated with the respect he’s earned as a result of being a principled and steadfast ally to the party. His criticism of Clinton—some of it spot on, some of it less so—is hardly baseless, and it’s more a result of the future she represents for the nation as a continuation of corporatist Democratic policies which are barely distinguishable from many of the policies enacted by the GOP in the ’80s and ’90s. If the party, and its presumptive candidate, can’t withstand such criticism, much less answer it effectively, then Sanders isn’t the biggest problem the Dems face.

            3) He takes money from *some* of the same donors, yes, but your statement strongly implies that he stands right there next to Clinton with his hand out as Wall Street donate thousands of dollars to her campaign, and many thousands more to her super-PACs, which is to say nothing about them paying her millions to speak to them off the record. To suggest, as you have, that Sanders receives donations from these same banks is plainly false. A couple of minutes worth of internet searching shows that big corporations and Wall Street have thrown their considerable resources behind Clinton while unions and small donors have cast their lot with Sanders. What’s more, crying “a pox on both your houses” in regard to our current campaign laws as a means of shoring up your shaky argument is equivocation on an epic scale and betrays a level of cynicism that’s highly problematic and concerning.

            Sanders must work within the system or else he’s bringing a proverbial knife to the metaphorical gun fight. If he has any hopes of mounting a successful campaign for the presidency then he can hardly stand on street corners and shout into a bullhorn. Unless and until we switch entirely to public financing of campaigns, leveling the charge of hypocrisy at anyone who criticizes the system as vehemently as Sanders does while working within it is to demand purity of an impossible degree. But then one is forced to wonder if such isn’t your purpose in framing these matters as you have. A surefire way to ensure the system is never reformed, or at least never reformed meaningfully, is to condemn anyone who dares criticize it from within. No one gets a pass when our system is utterly corrupt, but giving Sanders credit for calling our system what it is does not amount to getting a pass.

          • Jenny

            I’m at work on a cell phone, and I’ve spent long enough arguing this.
            So short and sweet.

            Bernie is a party shill. Independent or not he supported the Dems and they supported him. He’s finally got around to putting his hand out to collect while disparaging other members for doing the same. He isn’t working the system. He is the system. He was at some of those 10k a plate dinners just like Hillary.

            Campaign reform has been voted on and voted down. Most recently by democrats, because it would thwart their fundraising. Guess how Bernie voted? Not on his principles, with his party, with Hillary. They’re never going to bite the hand that feeds them. Keep dreaming.

            The two vote nearly identical, but one is morally and financially better because he says he’s a socialist proudly. That’s the gist, and again I’ll pass.

          • jmhm

            _Sanders must work within the system or else he’s bringing a proverbial knife to the metaphorical gun fight_

            And yet he suggests that Clinton is somehow mistaken in believing that arming to fight the larger battle – something he couldn’t be troubled to do – was a valid use of her time.

          • Takoma DC

            So what? He pays taxes just like I do. Why the fuck shouldn’t he get support from the DNC?

            I had to switch parties just to vote for him the primary. How is that fair? What is the democratic party in Washington, DC and other states afraid of? Why doesn’t my primary vote as a registered Independent count.

            Puhlease on Sanders taking from the same donors. That’s a joke and completely disingenuous. Clinton is supported much more by big business, Wall Street than Sanders. Clinton is supported by SuperPacs with millions of dollars – Sanders is not.

            Why should Clinton get a “free pass”? Because she’s female? Because she’s married to Bill Clinton?

            I’ll be critical of both Sanders and Clinton and if they can’t handle criticism and questions about the past votes, policies and comments then they aren’t qualified to run for president.

            She lost to an “inexperienced” young black man in ’08 and she threw the same bs criticisms at Obama that she’s been using against Sanders. It is a race for the White House. If Hillary can be critical of her competitors in ’08, she’s certainly permitted to do so in ’16 but it is tiring (to those of us who remember what she said and did in ’08) to hear the same old cliches all over again. I expect better of someone who is so intelligent and experienced.

          • Jenny

            Right so I wrote this huuuuuge thing responding to you but it’s too long for me to even read. So if you really want to read it, fine I’ll post it but the short version is. The DNC has nothing to do with your primary elections. That’s the DC board of elections. They decide who gets to vote where. The primaries are party elections. That’s why you had to change your party registration.

          • Takoma DC

            Where did I say the DNC had anything to do with primaries?

            I specifically pointed out it’s the dem party in Washington, DC (NOT a state) and state dem party. No where did I say primaries are governed or organized or sanctioned or whatever the fuck your boozey brain. See my unedited second paragraph.

            Don’t bother posting your rambling pedantic post for me. I won’t read it. But if you feel the need to prove to other Wonketeers that you’re a political animal and know-it-all please do post your comment. Maybe that will satiate your voracious ego.

          • Jenny

            What is the Democratic party of D.C. and other states afraid of?

            Nothing. They didn’t make the voting rules.

            https://www.dcboee.org/

            Don’t like registering as a Democrat to vote in the Democratic Primary. Here’s who you write to complain about it. It’s not a plot by either party to do this. It’s a 3rd party government agency.

            I actually like you and enjoy your postings. I know that the tone of my writing is bitter and angry.
            I know it feels like an attack against you but it’s not. I am sorry that I hurt you over politics.

            We don’t support the same guy, that’s OK. One of them will win and then it starts over. So it goes.

            Have a good day.

            Jenny

          • Takoma DC

            I’m not 1 of those supporters. Supporters of any candidate are NOT a monolith. Do you fucking get that? Just because you spend hours on Reddit, Twitter, Huffington Post and whatever the fuck else…. I read the LA Times, SFGate, Wonkette, Village Voice and watch MSNBC, Al Jazeera America and BBC America. Not every day because I find the constant reporting, perpetual polling, and random blog posts, for the most part, UNhelpful unless they’re humorous or even-handed.

        • jmhm

          It’s the part where he joined because he could get use the party machinery he condemns her for paying for.

          • cleos_mom

            Not to mention the fact that a third party or independent candidate would be up against the two major parties’ candidates — and might well be blamed by the losing side for the loss.

        • ?? But, uh, he iL:|

    • Apple Scruff

      On another site, I was pointing out the hypocrisy in how Bernie expects the super delegates to vote for him, but he doesn’t feel the need to fundraise for downticket candidates. And one response I got:

      “Fundraising is sorta not his thing. It would ruin his message. Why would he help the Dems?”

      “His thing” and “His message” are clearly more important than trying to win back Congress.

      • Portia McGonagal

        And Sleazy Weaver is accusing HRC of dividing the Democratic party. The mind boggles.

      • cat cafe

        What’s more, if he ends up being the nominee, those DNC funds that Hillary is kicking ass and working tirelessly to raise, will be offered to HIM. Will he then take them, being the ultra-hypocrite of the universe? Or is he planning to refuse them–in which case he seriously, dangerously, has no idea what he’s doing or how anything works? What a jackass. And his followers are even worse.

        • Apple Scruff

          Really? Huh. Is he going to send all those donations back?

          This is great information to tuck away for later… ;)

    • Proud Liberal

      I applaud you!

  • Tansy Geek

    I like Bernie for his socialisms and because he’s one of my Senators, but if his campaign staff and supporters keep spewing this increasingly sexist sounding shit, I might actually send Hilz some money. Besides, I like her villainous laugh.

    • Lamashtar

      Me too! ..I have an awful desire to see her get drunk.

      • Tansy Geek

        That might be fun. Do suppose she’s a hugger when she’s loaded? I see her stumbling around the room wagging her finger at people saying “Come here you. Mama Hillary loves you even when you eat all the Blue Bunny ice cream on the campaign bus.”

        • Land Shark

          That’s an awfully detailed description ….

          • Tansy Geek

            I maybe conflating her with my sister in law.

  • Jenny

    How many of the people stomping their feet and holding their breaths will go back to loving Ron & Rand Paul’s schtick and disappearing back into the Reddit hole? Best estimate?

    • mardam422

      Half to 2/3.

    • cleos_mom

      I’m guessing they’ll become totally invisible by 2018. At the latest.

  • bluicebank

    I keep telling Bernie and Hillary supporters that this shit goes on every single time in a close Democratic primary. Because high stakes, and a small fraction of enthusiastic peeps get too much sugar.

    It’s like you all weren’t around for the 2008 Clinton-Obama knock down drag out bar fight. Sheesh.

    But look, if you think this is bad, I’ll direct your attention to the GOP nuclear war. Not even the womin & chillins are safe.

    • Sally Johnson

      I would point out the PUMA problem in 2008 as a reminder that frustrated supporters often say and do stupid shit.

      • jmhm

        Well, the thing about the PUMA problem in 2008 is that there was no PUMA problem in 2008. Democratic women were concern trolled for a couple of weeks by the press, nobody bit, it died out. It’s a little different when the candidate’s campaign manager pretty much says out loud that their campaign has a suicide vest on.

      • King of America

        As jmhm says, the PUMA problem was largely fictional. One quarter of Bernie supporters claim they won’t vote for Clinton (roughly half of those are telling the truth).

        • Sally Johnson

          If Sanders wins the nomination, it will cost me another thousand bucks by November. If Clinton wins, I won’t have to contribute a dime to her campaign because it will be paid for by Wall Street.

          • King of America

            OK sure

          • Lamashtar

            Yes, but when are we going to talk betting spread?

          • Sally Johnson

            Donations, not bets. LOL

      • bluicebank

        Realistically, only PUMAs in swing states could ever hope to make a difference. And even then, only in a close contest in the General.

        I don’t see this as being a close contest between the Democratic nominee and Republican nominee. Even in a best-case GOP scenario, they will nominate Toxic (Trump or Cruz) or a Unicorn (a fictional Republican who will unite the party). Worse case, for the GOP, is the unicorn wins, and Trump and Cruz both go indy.

        • King of America

          I can’t see Cruz running as third-party, but Trump might (if he decides he hasn’t got enough publicity yet, or if the GOP makes him feel bad about his tiny weenus).

          • bluicebank

            Yeah, u right. Cruz would go back to the Senate … FOR REVENGE!

      • cleos_mom

        You actually know a PUMA member? That’s like a velociraptor sighting.

  • House0fTheBlueLights

    Those shirts are teh awesome but I am out of money, having sent it all to Hillary so she can put the BernieBros in FEMA camps.

  • I keep trying to figure out how Hillary can be both ambitious and nervous. Bring on the fainting couch, I’m getting the vapors. Only cure, voting with my vagina so the first woman President can explain it to me.

    • King of America

      Well, she’s modelling her policies on Obama, who is apparently both a ruthless dictator AND an ineffective spineless leader.

      • Lamashtar

        Its the Mom jeans.

      • ryp

        A spineless dictator if you will.

      • cleos_mom

        Not to mention a Muslim atheist.

        • King of America

          A Muslim atheist socialist, in fact.

  • feministing

    when is sanders going to stop getting a free pass? he is using sexism the way trump is using racism i see no way to talk him out of this any longer.

    • I do agree that Sanders has some sexism in his campaign and actions. However, I think you are going to far in comparing it to Drumpf’s racism. My wife, who is a strong feminist, made this point in one our discussions – Sanders’ sexism is more just a byproduct of his age than any real disdain for women. He just hasn’t outgrown all of his generational bias. I think she is right.
      Sometimes we have subconscious biases that we never completely get rid out of our systems. And while that can be bad, it is not the same as the in your face name calling and attacks of a true racist/sexist piece of shit like Drumpf.

      • jmhm

        I think I understand what your wife is saying, and I can respect it. I think we all know people like that.

        But bluntly, if a candidate is going to parcel out the pain in the service of his agenda, and his actions show that my interests are the easiest for him to ignore because he doesn’t know what they are, I don’t really care why that is. The fact that his rhetoric is moving towards his supporters rather than the other way around isn’t real heartening either.

        I also find it remarkably unprogressive of him not to have taken the trouble in seventy some odd years to learn something about the largest group of poor people.

        • feministing

          “The fact that his rhetoric is moving towards his supporters rather than the other way around isn’t real heartening either.”

          and to a generation that is supposed to represent the most forward progress we’ve seen in 100 years. really frightening.

      • feministing

        so the ol’ “boys will be boys” argument? the subtly and insidiousness of sexism, where it isn’t taken seriously, as you have attested to, is what makes it so dangerous. add on top that sanders and his 3 top MALE advisors are now capitalizing on this internal, societal bias and i’m not sure how you don’t up with: sanders is using gross misogyny for personal gain. nothing about that gets a free pass. if women don’t demand better, we will never get it.

        • Don’t put words in my mouth, it’s a bullshit way to discuss anything. I said what meant. Sanders is wrong, but not as wrong as an asshole who is okay with abusive language and actions. If you want to demand better, I am there with you. But if you demand the entire world change to your view of perfection in an instant, no. You will just alienate the people you are trying to change and make them dig their heels in. Need proof, look at my first sentence. You pissed off a person that is on your side by yelling at me.

          • feministing

            i “yelled” at you?

          • I want to demand better. I worked in nursing homes for a long time, and lots of the old people I interacted with were sexist (and racist) because they were old and that was what they knew and maybe they really didn’t have any hate behind it. Mostly they got passes. They were out of touch, and in many cases, l or suffering from dementia. I’m cool with giving sick old people a pass. But I want better from a president and from a self-appointed agent of political change. He’s setting the tone for the followers that really, really love him. He’s responsible for making sure that tone isn’t a throwback to the bad old days. He seems healthy and mentally well to me, and he’s not too old to keep up with the demands of running to be the leader of the free world. He can do better than “it’s OK because I’m an Old.”

          • I want to demand better as well. In my classroom, where I had the power to do so, I did. I got reprimanded multiple times for not allowing students to get away with sexist, racist, or homophobic comments. And I am not saying we give Sanders a pass, that is actually big part of why I voted for Clinton in the primary and expect to vote for her again in the general. What I have been trying to get across here is that equating his level of sexism with that of Drumpf’s is not accurate. And making charges like that is not going to sway his supporters, it is just going to make them worse.
            When I was 18 and learned how my grandfather (who was quite sick) was treating my grandmother who was caring for him, I held her hand and listened. Then at a time when I could, I talked to him about how wonderful she was treating him and how how he could show her more how much he loved her. (This was for their 50th wedding anniversary, so it fit pretty well.) I don’t know how much it helped, Grandma didn’t really talk to me about it much. But I do know that if had gone in and told him off and yelled at him about it, all that would have happened was that he would have beat the crap out of me. Even after two strokes he was very strong.
            So my point is, don’t give him a pass, don’t go off on him either. Angry does more harm than good. A lesson that my discussion with feministing shows that I need a refresher course in.

          • What constitutes going off on him? Any calling him or his supporters on it, no matter how mild, gets brushed off as “angry”. Hillary herself keeps getting dinged for yelling and being angry when she’s just talking. Literally every man running shouts, and no one seems to mind. In what way could we say, “hey, this is sexist and not worthy of you, and you need to do better,” without it being perceived as angry?

          • I wish I could give you a good answer, but I doubt that one exists. I am just saying that equating Sanders and Trump, is not the answer.

          • I don’t think Trump and Sanders are morally equivalent. But they are both currently making the argument that Hillary isn’t qualified to be president because she’s corrupt. In Trump’s case, because of the email thing, in Sanders’ case because of the fundraising, but in both cases, these are things that male politicians do not get called out for (Colin Powell used a personal email account, Obama and every other president ever raised money). It’s shitty, and we should be able to expect better from one of those people.

            Plus, if/when Hillary ends up with the nomination, the Republican candidate will have endless clips of Bernie and all his surrogates insisting she’s not qualified, she made a “deal with the devil”, she’s destroying her own party with her evil ambition (so what’s she going to do to the country, amiright?) Sexism completely aside, I am pissed at Sanders and his camp for handing them that ammunition.

          • I am really hating this discussion (not your fault) because it feels like I am defending a candidate that I don’t support. I don’t want to defend Sanders, I don’t want to vote for him. I think that Hillary Clinton is possibly the only qualified person in this entire field from either party. And I am sorry, I haven’t been able to listen to or read Sanders comments yet. The comment that I originally responded to drew an equivalency between Drumpf and Sanders, and I think that is wrong. It seems we are in agreement there. I hope we can use that as a way come together. I can’t imagine any circumstance where helping your colleagues to get elected is hurting them (well, unless you are Sarah Palin, but that is a whole other kettle of fish).
            I just don’t want to be considered to be saying “boys will be boys,” or that I am a sexist because I see Drumpf’s words and actions as much more toxic.
            What I want, and what I have tried to work for in my own small way is a world where the best qualified person gets the job, and that isn’t based on their color, genitals, or who they love. And that everybody gets an equal shot at doing what they love, not what some other person thinks they ought to love.

          • orygoon

            You know what most of us in this country do not really need/want right now? A super-awesome president for guy-gendered white Americans. Nope. Haven’t 44 of them been enough? How many more do you guys need?

      • MissNomer

        He’s only seven years older than she is. He’s had plenty of opportunities to raise his consciousness. His age is no excuse.

      • MissNomer

        He is only seven years older than she is. He’s had plenty of opportunities to raise his consciousness. His age is no excuse. You can’t be a progressive if you are not a feminist.

      • Ugh, no. No passes for age. If you’re too old a dog to learn new tricks, then you don’t get to be president.

      • Apple Scruff

        Donald Trump is nearly 70. Does that excuse his racism?

        • Nothing excuses him.

          • cleos_mom

            But it’s a byproduct of his age. By his generation’s standards, he loves women.

          • Look, Donald Trump was a sexist asshole in the 80’s even by the standards of the 80’s. My original point is that the sexism that Sanders or his campaign is showing is not on a par with the racism or sexism Trump or his campaign is showing. Simply that. Not that Sanders is okay because he is less sexist. But that comparison is not fair.
            Every person has a lens they view the world through. My comes from my careers as neuroscientist and a teacher/special ed. teacher. Many people act from subconscious biases or needs that they don’t quite understand how to meet in an acceptable way (for example, I have had students who really act out just before a quiz to avoid maybe failing the quiz.) So my lens is to try to analyze people’s behavior and explain it. So I was trying to look at Sander’s behavior and try to find an explanation. Now pretty clearly, I am not going to be trying to modify Sanders’ behavior, but if I can understand it, I might be able to make an educated guess about how far his sexism might go and if it would be tolerable should he win the nomination.
            Given that I have said in multiple posts that I voted for Clinton in the VA primary and hope to vote for her again in the general election it should be pretty clear that I don’t agree with Sanders’ sexism, not do I excuse it. But my guess that his sexism is more about some subconscious bias rather than actual disdain for women in general, means given a choice between Sanders and Trump/Cruz/Kasich that I would see Sanders as less harmful alternative and cast a (reluctant) vote for him.
            I am absolutely willing to listen to your opinions on the matter should you care to take the time to formulate them and talk with me. Who knows, I might be wrong.

      • orygoon

        Sweet Jesus, no!

      • orygoon

        Bernie is the guy who is all about being sooooooooo morally superior to everybody else, so FUCK that theory with a rusty chainsaw.

      • cleos_mom

        Not impressed.

    • bluicebank

      Free pass? Have you been following the NYT, L.A. Times and especially the Washington Post? It’s been wall-to-wall negative coverage. Earlier this year the WaPo would even fail to mention Sanders in the Democratic Primary, merely saying that whatever Republican would face her.

      That’s some free pass.

      • feministing

        i know that in birdie land every time you write something mentioning hillary you must also espouse sanders in one way or another or else you are a corporate shill bought and paid for by wall street, but she is and has been the front runner for a very long time. an article here and there talking about her vs the gop without mentioning sanders is a non issue.

        and i’ll ask, do you follow those things? because all i see are headlines along the lines of “here’s how hillary’s win is really a loss/here’s how sanders loss is really a win/sanders thumps clinton/sanders continues to crush clinton/sanders continues surge against clinton”. or do you ignore those headlines because they don’t fit your victim narrative?

        msm has literally just started to get their shit together overnight on calling him out and questioning him. and even then, half of the stories about this latest fuck up aren’t really negating his assertion, just teasing it out for clicks.

        • bluicebank

          As an ex-journo I’ve been following the MSN since the 1980s, being as how that’s when I saw my profession first going downhill.

          I can tell you that the unprofessional coverage, or non-coverage, of important issues has been pretty dismal, compared to just plain shitty.

          Last year the MSN’c only coverage of Sanders was dismissive, and they always ran with the unflattering pic of his hair askew.

          This isn’t to say the MSN still won’t let the email server story go, but since the FBI won’t either, at least they have an excuse.

          But we’ve seen them run outright falsehoods (say the WaPo’s story that Sanders wasn’t that guy in the photo at a protest meeting, that was uh Bruce Rappaport! lol).

          As for when Sanders wins, all I read (and I read a lot) is “Sanders won but he’s still screwed, and when Hillary wins it’s she now really, really mathematically got this.

          • They run pictures of him with his hair askew because his hair is askew most of the time. It looks like that when he’s live too. Isn’t that part of his shtick? Rumpled suits, bedhead, birds a-twittering around him like he’s carrying bread in his pockets.

          • Apple Scruff

            I was just going to say the same thing. The ‘Doc Brown meets Larry David” thing is partially why so many kids are in love with him. On another article that mentioned his refusal to release his taxes, one of his young supporters excused him by saying “He drives a dumpy car. He probably just doesn’t want to pay for an accountant.”

          • It’s appealing. It seems to be the Dem version of “the guy you’d want to have a beer with”. He’s this cycle’s Regular Joe.

            I might be more enthused by it if I didn’t keep remembering that the same people who applaud Bernie for not being polished enough would be questioning Hillary’s sanity if she showed up looking like she just rolled out of bed. She could never campaign as a Regular Jane – I don’t think any woman can. But then when she gets a damn haircut it’s a scandal, and looking polished contributes to that “unapproachable, cold, phony ” thing they insist she’s got going on. There’s just no way for her to be right, so it bugs me that Bernie can so easily be everyone’s favorite rumpled grumpy grandpa.

          • cleos_mom

            Bad enough that she’s ambitious. And has been seen not crossing her ankles when she sits.

          • SullivanSt

            Thing is, if you look at Nate Silver’s adjusted benchmarks after AK/HI/WA, impressive as Bernie’s win in Wisconsin was, it was still marginally short of what he needs to do to catch up. And looking ahead, he has to beat his current 538 polling average in New York, Pennsylvania and Maryland 20, 22 and 10 points respectively. He has shown he can pull that off on occasion – Wisconsin and Michigan – but he has to keep doing it consistently, and that’s really, really tough. I don’t think trading in BS like the “unqualified” spat is the way to do it, either.

          • bluicebank

            This is true. Sanders has to do very well, with still a lot of delegates remaining in big states. Mathematically possible, and I think by New York’s results we will know if California can play a part.

            As for BOTH candidates questioning each others’ qualifications, it’s a big yawn for me, following presidential elections since the late ’70s. It’s always going come out in one form or another. Alternately, I don’t think Hillary’s dismissal of young people as stupid is going to help her win the young vote.

            Anyway, these kinds of back-and-forth things are par for the course in campaigns. It’s not something the public hasn’t seen before. I have enough outrage over the Republican candidates to fret over the usual between the two Democratic contenders.

          • SullivanSt

            I agree the spat doesn’t stand out from the average American political campaign but don’t you think that stomps all over the brand of a guy who’s running on the basis of being unlike any other American politician? Because when you go on Charlie Rose and defend yourself first by continuing to insist on your campaign’s plainly false assertion that WaPo putting something in a headline definitely means Clinton said something the article totally doesn’t support and then that while you think the campaign should not be tit for tat you’ll respond in kind to anything you don’t like in your perception of what the other side is saying, you sound at least as deceptive and craven as the average American politician.

          • bluicebank

            I know what both sides said about the subject. I know that Hillary said she doesn’t even know if Sanders is a Democrat (and thus would not be qualified to receive the nomination). So parse it, if you will.

            And I know that Sanders responded to her earlier non-subtle attack by saying anyone who voted for the Iraq War, etc., is not qualified. Hell, I wrote her off once she embraced that war criminal Henry Kissinger (turns out she and Bill vacation with him).

            But I also know that Sanders said he would support Hillary if she wins the race between them. And Hillary has said the same. So when they talk this usual stuff about being qualified, they aren’t talking about the U.S. Constitution’s requirements. OK? They are campaigning hard. No one expects Sanders to be a wilting flower, nor Hillary.

            There’s plenty of reason to be outraged by the GOP primaries. What’s going on between Hilz and Bern is tame. The Hillary-Obama fight was way worse.

          • SullivanSt

            Fine you can join Bernie in the Luntzian position that words have no meaning if you want; I reject it completely.

          • cleos_mom

            IMO this season reached a brief peak of silliness with the distraughtanddistraithood over a candidate (two actually) not, for all practical purposes, endorsing their opponent. OMG, what next.

          • BluebirdofUnhappiness

            Ahem, someone directed me to this story and since I’m an avid comment reader, well here I am.
            I don’t suppose you followed the Bernie Sanders picture controversy from Chicago, including the local news? When the original picture (the office sit-in) was unearthed. It was speculated it was Sanders. A couple of the people in his circle were contacted to identify the person in the picture, including that guy’s (Rappaport?) wife who claimed it was her husband. And the others either agreed and said they were unsure. Over the course of the rest of the week a few more pictures came to light – more from the same photographer of the sit-in and the one where Sanders was being arrested at a different protest. At some point everyone then said, oh yeah, I guess that was Bernie.
            Now I don’t recall when WaPo ran the story, but ‘ll assume it was during the “it’s my husband” phase. As well as I know the media industry(the goal is clicks, eyeballs and engagement – so serious policy is a bit of a yawner, as are second tier/non-celebrity political candidates), I doubt it was some sort of intentional denial of facts or anti-Sanders media conspiracy or manipulation.

    • NoCountryForOldWomen

      Sick the way sanders dismissively berned Jane after Wisconsin win. Does he make her walk ten paces behind him too. http://bluenationreview.com/bernie-dont-stand-next-to-me/

      • SullivanSt

        Eeewwwwwww, super-gross.

  • Paperless Tiger

    Good. Maybe if they paint her mean and evil enough, Republicans will vote for her too. They like that shit.

  • Proud Liberal

    Interesting tidbit. In 2001, Teddy Kennedy introduced a bill to increase the minimum wage. Hillary Clinton co-sponsored it. Bernie didn’t.

    https://www.congress.gov/bill/107th-congress/senate-bill/277/cosponsors?q=%7B%22search%22%3A%5B%22s277%22%5D%7D

  • Proud Liberal

    Another interesting tidbit. In 2003, Tom Daschle introduced a bill to increase minimum wage. Hillary co-sponsored it. Bernie didn’t.

    https://www.congress.gov/bill/108th-congress/senate-bill/20/cosponsors

  • Proud Liberal

    Over the course of her time in the U.S. Senate, Hillary Clinton cosponsored bills to raise the federal minimum wage in 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005 and 2007. Senator Clinton opposed Republican efforts to weaken the minimum wage, and she repeatedlybacked Democratic efforts to raise it. Although she opposed the Iraq funding bill it was folded into, Clinton cosponsored the original version of the Fair Minimum Wage Act that increased the minimum wage for the first time in ten years, from $5.85 to $7.25 an hour. It was one of the five bills Senator Clinton cosponsored to raise the minimum wage.

    http://correctrecord.org/hillary-clinton-less-minimum-more-wage/

    Bernie didn’t co-sponsor any of these bills.

    • SullivanSt

      Bernie was in the House until 2007. He cosponsored the House versions of the 2001, 2003, 2004 and 2005 bills, and he was a cosponsor of the 2007 Senate bill.

  • Maybe Shy could design a shirt with both St. Bernie and St. Hillary on it so that divided households could show our support together. Interestingly enough, I am supporting Hillary while my wife is supporting Bernie.

    • Lamashtar

      They don’t even have to change the look! Hillary of Arc and Bernie of Assisi look great together!

      • Beaumarchais?

        I’d buy that…

      • Gristle McThornbody

        Oh, shit, Trix and Shy would have the Catholic Church Veroing all over their butts.

  • Msmlg1979

    “A house divided against itself cannot stand” -President Lincoln.

  • Beaumarchais?

    There actually is a politician who could step in and heal this potential schism: Elizabeth Warren.

    • Robert Jensen

      Bernie or Elizabeth would turn the Democratic Party into the UK’s Labour Party They ran on a platform of taxing the wealthy and the middle class to give more benefits to the poor and low wage working class. The Labour Party lost in a landslide giving the Conservative Party an absolute majority for the first time since Winston Churchill.

      • SullivanSt

        Strange, I remember these people called Maggie Thatcher (SPIT!) and John Major operating with majorities in parliament (Major’s Tories won 336 of 651 seats in 1992).

        I also remember Labour’s loss of power having a lot more to do with them being the unfortunate souls who happened to be in power when the economy tanked (plus Blair’s involvement in Iraq plus Gordon Brown’s lack of charisma plus scandal), and the Tories capture of a majority having a lot more to do with the complete collapse of the Liberal Democrat Party (severely punished by their voters for joining a coalition with the Conservatives – oh, the bitter irony that it was the Conservatives who benefited most).

        • Also worth noting that Cameron doesn’t have a massive majority. He squeaked in w/ a coalition and now the Tories are only 17 seats ahead since 2015

      • What era Labour Party are you referring to? Blair was basically the UK’s answer to Clinton when he started (except for that unfortunate do-whatever-W-wants streak) and had a massive landslide in 1997.

        Are you going back to the 1983 “Longest Suicide in History” platform to find a corollary or just doing some light Corbyn-bashing?

        Or is this about my avatar’s model Ed Milipanda who lost less on platform but because he couldn’t eat a sandwich without getting bad press?

      • SullivanSt

        Also, since when did 36.2% of the vote constitute a “landslide”?

      • Left Coast Tom

        I wouldn’t put Sanders and Warren together. Let’s take one example: Wall Street Transaction Tax.

        Warren is proposing, essentially, a “Tobin Tax”, a de-minimus tax whose purpose is not to raise money, but rather to eliminate speculative high-speed trading. This tax wouldn’t actually raise net revenue (beyond enforcement cost), its purpose is to stop the activity it targets.

        Sanders is proposing a much larger, 0.5%, transaction tax specifically to raise revenue for his tuition plan, and he is redundantly proposing the same transaction tax to raise revenue to help fund his single-payer plan.

    • MissNomer

      Nah. Liz Warren isn’t ambitious enough.

      • Beaumarchais?

        Also too, not qualified. On the plus side, we could pay her less!

    • I doubt that, given how quickly the Bros turned on her when they decided it was her fault their candidate lost Massachusetts.

      • Beaumarchais?

        Huh! I thought Bernie won in MA, but just looked it up and you’re right—he lost by a small margin.
        (That happens EVERY time I vote for someone, btw. Someone should pay me to vote for Cruz or Trump.)
        As to your point: she didn’t endorse anyone, did she? Oh, jeez. Thanks, Obama!

        • Lamashtar

          SHE SAID THEY WERE BOTH GOOD. ISN’T IT OBVIOUS??? WARREN IS TRYING TO SPLIT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY!!!

        • She didn’t endorse anyone. She stayed neutral and supportive of both Dem contenders doing their best. But a lot of the Sanders supporters felt (probably correctly) that an endorsement for him would have tipped the scales in his favor, and boy, were they angry. She went from being a progressive hero to public enemy number one in an instant, and they made sure to follow her all over social media promising to destroy her (with votes, mostly, although some were more graphic) for being a “Hillary shill” and so forth. For staying neutral.

          Having witnessed that, I don’t really believe a lot of the most vitriolic Bernie followers when they insist that they’re not being sexist to Hillary when the call her an evil she-beast corporate prostitute, because they really like Liz. They’d find reasons to decide she’s too shrill and too ambitious and unqualified if she were running too.

          • Beaumarchais?

            Thank you for this. I’m having trouble keeping up with whom we should stone.

          • Well that’s easy. We should stone Ted Cruz. (With votes!)

          • Let this reggae version of a Bob Dylan song help you with your confusion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z5Or0jKKBw

          • Frank Underboob

            Some, maybe. In my case, if it were Warren running instead of Clinton, I’d support her over Sanders, because I do think America is over due for a woman president.

          • MissNomer

            Saying you’re not sexist because you’d vote for Liz Warren is exactly like saying you’re not racist because you like one black musician.

        • Bad Granny

          You haven’t been getting your Soros checks?

          • NellCote71

            I STILL haven’t received my Obama phone.

          • Bad Granny

            Sorry about that, we had to move the Free Stuff Pickup Location because the patriots were onto our scheme. You have to go the abortionplex in the Jade Helm tunnel, they’ll get you sorted out.

  • azeyote

    c’mon man – she ain’t personally killed anyone since that Foster dude, and just recently found the Huma love nest – she might be rather hawkish, and likes the Kissinger model of foreign policy – but all them uppity centrist democrats don’t mind the war machine – there’s no draft, and it’s good for profits – and they all love Wall Street

    • Truthiness2U

      Well to be fair, she did kill Scalia in the bedroom with a candlestick, er pillow.

      But it was a mercy killing! Clearly Scalia was suffering from a terminal case of jigggery pokery. She was just doing him (and all of us) a favour by killing him in his sleep.

      • Lamashtar

        I love that the word ‘jiggery pokery’ is making such a comeback.

        • mrpuma2u

          Yeah, it’s pure applesauce baby.

        • Sakonyachen

          I’ve been working on learning The Charleston since it has.

      • bluicebank

        No, that was Obama who killed Scalia.

        Remember, we’re still in “It’s Obama’s fault” default mode with the GOP. Like when Obama destroyed New Orleans with Katrina. Before then it was Clinton’s fault, like when Bill guided the planes into the World Trade Center.

        • Vegan and Tiara

          How dare you leave Jimmy Carter out of this blame game? Everyone knows he was history’s greatest monster.

          • bluicebank

            I figured I was pushing it with Youngs.

            Yes, Carter gave away the Panama Canal, and deliberately wrecked any chance the Iran hostages would see the light of day. He was also responsible for the gas lines under the Ford administration.

          • Vegan and Tiara

            He also caused the inflation of the 1970s which was why Gerald Ford in a pre-emptive strike had all of those WIN (Whip Inflation Now) buttons printed up. That bastard Carter also caused the housing crisis of 2007, and the bank collapse of 2008, twenty seven years after he left office. For a one term president he sure wreaked a lot of havoc.

          • Smokahontas

            He was so sneaky no one even noticed!

          • Vegan and Tiara

            That bastard!!!!!

    • Left Coast Tom

      I thought she murdered the entire population of Mena, AR. Was that before or after the lesbian Hillary Clinton killed her lover Vince Foster?

    • Pierre_de_Fermat

      Yeah and you don’t want to talk about her taking Foster out unless you want to sleep tonight in the Baltimore Canyon.

  • Vegan and Tiara

    I heard on the news tonight that 1 out of 4 Bernie Sanders is NOT going to vote for Clinton if she wins. Isn’t that awesome? We can all get used to 8 years of Ted Cruz, and his multiple Supreme Court justice picks. What could POSSIBLY go wrong with this plan? HINT: Iraq and Afghanistan wars, collapse of world economy, house prices plunging, no jobs, huge tax cuts for the very wealthy. Oh, yeah, this is going to be just great.

    • Smokahontas

      Really? That’s a double sad face, or eleventy sad face :-( I know there’s a bad strain of butthurt going around but I wasn’t aware it was attacking brain cells.

      • Sakonyachen

        It used to be fun to watch pie fights. Now they fight with chains and bats. Butt hurt is not even close to what they are going for now. There is no revolution now, many on both sides want civil war. Though I suspect that many probably equal about 1,000. And they are all mostly dumber than a bag of hammers.

      • Vegan and Tiara

        Aren’t you excited by the thought of a Ted Cruz presidency? I LOVE his idea to give another HUGE tax cut to the rich, while raising sales taxes so the lazy poor can pay a larger share of the tax burden.

    • boll ocks

      If true, then this is the stupidest thing i have ever heard. The derp, it burns.

      • Vegan and Tiara

        Hopefully the thought of a Ted Cruz presidency will motivate these idiots to vote for whoever is the nominee. Susan Sarandon suggesting that there’s no difference between Clinton and a Republican was the height of stupidity.

        • careful_driver

          Dammit. I have loved her long time so it makes me sad that she would say something so damn stoopid.

          • Vegan and Tiara

            Yeah, I was pretty pissed about it. I’d think she’d have the common sense to say “I love Bernie, but if he doesn’t get the nod, then obviously Hillary Clinton would be a great president. I’ll support either candidate.”

    • Left Coast Tom

      As I understand, that’s significantly lower than the percentage of Clinton supporters who said the same thing in 2008 (around half) (disclosure: I’m a 2016 Clinton supporter, 2008 Obama supporter).

      By November I’d expect the “Bernie or Bust” crowd to be pretty much limited to the Daily Kos “Rec List”.

      • Sakonyachen

        “By November I’d expect the “Bernie or Bust” crowd to be pretty much limited to the Daily Kos ‘Rec List'”

        Well after the rant Kos went on at the top of the rec list, I doubt they will be anything but feral beserker at this point. I actually left since he decided that hoping against hope that Bernie could win was delusional, just over a month after he told everyone to make nice for the election. Right after Bernie won 7 of 8 primaries at or above the mathematical percentage needed to beat Clinton. So yes its improbable, but not impossible. He said it was impossible, and you are not allowed to have your own reality.

        I’m a Bernie now, Hillary if I must guy. I actually like her, she’s tougher than most. I just don’t agree with her politics. If that cocky prick ran me off the sight by my own decision, I can’t even imagine what the Bern or Bust folks are thinking. Mutiny is nigh at Daily Kos.

        • Left Coast Tom

          They’ve been feral beserker for months now, I’ve seen folks citing Alex Jones’ Infowars as a “criticism from the left”.

          • Sakonyachen

            That’s berserker horde level shit right there. Not too surprised anymore. This election year is close to the twilight zone. doo-doo! doo-doo! doo-doo! doo-doo!
            Yes I’m old btw.

          • Left Coast Tom

            To my main point…in 2008 there was the “PUMA” thing. In the real world, “PUMA” was John McCain’s attempt at ratfucking (one of PUMA-PAC’s co-founders was a 2000 McCain donor!). It failed, because the actual number of “PUMA”‘s in the wild was somewhere close to 0. On Daily Kos it was some sort of legendary event that must be discussed ad nauseum eight years later for no goddamn reason.

            So I was snarking at the disconnect from reality while observing that reality this time around actually looks more promising than in 2008.

          • cleos_mom

            I have yet to meet, in RL or online, anyone who even claimed to be a PUMA member. Or even anyone who claims to know anyone who is.

            Maybe it’s a branch of Ladies Against Women.

            ladiesagainstwomen.com/

      • Vegan and Tiara

        Thank you for being the voice of reason. It infuriates me to think that Cruz could be our next president because our side is going to act like babies.

        • Pierre_de_Fermat

          I don’t think they will. Yes, some plaintive GBCW postings, but as the frenzy of the campaigning takes over, the stakes will become clear. This has the look of a “realignment” election. Given the iron law of the two party system, how (first) the Republicans split up, then how the Democrats adjust, it will be one to be remembered. It will work out over years and there will probably be aftershocks. Maybe I need to dig up Goldman’s Rendezvous with Destiny.

          • Vegan and Tiara

            All I know is there better not be a fucking “President Ted Cruz.” I can NOT handle that shit.

          • Pierre_de_Fermat

            Well, there is always that possibility. Not a happy thought. At all.

      • Pierre_de_Fermat

        Yeah, it wouldn’t really be a race without the drama. We’re Democrats (mostly), it’s what we do. We also believe that united we can do a lot of good, needed, things. You don’t get one without the other, and I’ll take us over the craziness of the other side all day every day. I was Obama in ’08 and am Clinton in 2016 as well; as Rebecca wrote “They’re both fine, they’re both good”. I’ve gotten annoyed at the Bros and they are annoyed with the Hillary folks, but the annoyance comes from good impulses, not from wanting to see who can implement the cruelest, most ideologically rigid and hateful government ever.

    • Pierre_de_Fermat

      Ed Kilgore on a SCOTUS selection the RWNJs are dreaming about. Hint: you ain’t gonna like it.

      • Vegan and Tiara

        What’s not to like about this? “Lee has, on occasion, suggested that child labor laws, Social Security, and Medicare are unconstitutional, because they breach the eternal limits on federal power sketched out by the Founders. Like most Lochnerians, he views the constitution and the courts as designed to keep democratic majorities from stepping on the God-given personal and property rights of individuals and corporations alike. So it’s no surprise he’s been a bitter critic of the deferential view towards Congress expressed by Chief Justice Roberts in the decision that saved Obamacare. ”
        I think he’ll make a FINE SCOTUS, so all the Berniebros should really just stay home on election day since nobody really needs Medicare.

      • Vegan and Tiara

        Another great reason to not show up on election day: “Begin with taxes. In addition to the de rigueur ginormous tax cut for rich people, Cruz proposes a massive shift of the tax burden away from income taxes to sales taxes. So, not only would Cruz’s plan give nearly half of its benefit to the highest-earning one percent of taxpayers (who would save, on average, nearly half a million dollars a year in taxes per household), but it would actually raise taxes on the lowest-earning fifth.” You read that right, Cruz wants to RAISE taxes on the poorest people. That should go well!

        • Pierre_de_Fermat

          Well, they have all the money! Lucky duckies!

          • Vegan and Tiara

            Yeah, those lazy loafers really have it sweet. There’s nothing I’d rather do than live in a dangerous neighborhood, work two shitty jobs, and be terrified to get sick. You think if being poor was so great, more people would be aspiring to it.

        • Dr. Krieger IRL

          Doesn’t seem very Christian of him. Ted Cruz would probably have The Good Samaritan jailed.

          • Vegan and Tiara

            I have a neighbor who is voting for Cruz, he genuinely thinks the problem with this country is there are too many takers (he collects Social Security and a state pension), and that we need to raise taxes on the poor, because they’re just getting such a great free ride.

      • Zyxomma

        Thank you for posting this. I’m sure every Wonketteer 18 years old and older is registered, and will be voting come hell or high water. If/when Hillary gets the nomination, Sanders must tell his supporters to VOTE Democratic, in every election, every year. No more tea parties.

        • Pierre_de_Fermat

          Yeah. The possibility of reversing the New Deal itself is … astonishing. That it would be considered “reasonable” at this date is more delusional than anything. It suggests a party run by out-of-touch ideologues. At least if they announced they wanted to base all laws on the Pythagorean Theorem, it would have the advantage of being provably correct (in 2-D space).

    • stray_bullett

      It will probably be Ryan. All the alternatives to Sanders OR Clinton are odious. If Sanders DOESN’T get the nomination (and he shouldn’t concede it yet, just because of the media) at least he pushed Clinton into more progressive principles. And I guess that’s the main problem Clinton has. She’s had to be FORCED to be more progressive. And a lot of people think he should have already been there.

    • stray_bullett

      It will probably be Ryan. All the alternatives to Sanders OR Clinton are odious. If Sanders DOESN’T get the nomination (and he shouldn’t concede it yet, just because of the media) at least he pushed Clinton into more progressive principles. And I guess that’s the main problem Clinton has. She’s had to be FORCED to be more progressive. And a lot of people think she should have already been there.

      • Lots of people would argue that she didn’t need to be forced at all, given that her voting record is not that different from her opponent’s and that she has a long history of working for things like healthcare and women’s rights and gun control and so on. she’s always been more liberal than Bill, and “too liberal” was one of the arguments against her in 08 (although I think the opposite argument was used then too. Can’t win.)

        But even if she did need to be moved, at least she’s responsive to what voters are telling her. She catches flak for flip-flopping, but I’d prefer a politician move on an issue with the public than hang onto an outdated idea just for the sake of consistency. Will Bernie move on the gun control issue? Or admit that fixing economic equality and college costs (both noble goals) won’t fix things like abortion restrictions and mass shootings and racial tensions and LGBT discrimination and failing K-12 schools, and maybe come up with some ideas for dealing with those problems too? Because as far as I can see, he’s had one message for decades, and the fact that it’s a good and progressive message doesn’t change the fact that voters might eventually like him to do some other stuff too. How responsive will he be?

        • stray_bullett

          Your missing so many points and actually just plain wrong on her stances AND supposed plans, that I scarcely know where to begin.
          Let’s start with her plans. Go to her website. Tell me what specific proposals you see there. You won’t see any specifics. There is a whole lotta “I believe” in what sounds like vaguely progressive ideas. There is a bunch of “I’m against” what sounds like oppressive ideas from the right. But no plans. Sanders’ economic and education platforms have been vetted by some of the greatest minds we have in this country – and found to be extremely sound and doable without bankrupting the country. He has spoken about all the other issues (abortion, race, discrimination and guns. People have a problem with his reluctance to hold gun manufacturers responsible for mass shootings as you call them. There is a better way to control firearms and he has outlined his plans that are far more realistic than holding a maker of a legal (at this time)product responsible for it’s misuse. Hillary has said she is for gun control. What does she mean by that. She hasn’t told anyone publicly how she intends to do this, and it isn’t on her website.
          How about the source of her support? It doesn’t bother you at all that 85% of her campaign money comes from Wall Street and banks? The night of the Wisconsin, she was incommunicado because she was holding a huge rich folk fundraiser that her campaign has refused to talk about. Last month, she collected an unknown total of dollars from a dinner held for her by Kohlberg Kravis Roberts, an influential Wall Street firm that is HEAVILY invested in fracking.

          • Oh, goodie, a True Believer. Here, let me throw a wall of questions back at you. How is Sanders going to get governors in states like mine (Rick Scott – FL) who won’t even take the Medicaid expansion to pay for a third of his college plans? Why, when asked how he was going to deal with obstructionist Republicans like Mitch McConnell, was Bernie’s only answer that he was going to point to all the people outside demanding change? Does Bernie really expect four years of protests in front of Congress? Does he think that the conservative voters who want the obstructionism politicians are going to melt away like the Wicked Witch, or does he think the politicians will be so afraid of liberal protestors that they’ll start ignoring the people who voted them in in the first place? I’m really curious about that. Bernie dissed Planned Parenthood because they endorsed his opponent. Does he have any plan to stop the GOP from refunding PPs and restricting abortion rights all over the the place, other we r than just being pro-choice in the White House? Will he stand by PP even though they didn’t pass his ideological purity test? At one debate – I believe the Flint debate – Bernie was asked about failing K-12 schools. In his answer, all he talked about was free college. Does he have any thoughts that you know of about K-12 education, for those of us who would like our kids to get some education before college? (Especially for those of us in red states whose kids won’t be getting free college because our state governments will never go for it?) How does Bernie think he’ll get Medicare for all through when the country lost its shit about a damn public option just a few years ago? And by the way, how is Bernie going to fare through months of attack ads from Republicans when he loses his shit about something his Dem opponent didn’t even say? Convince me he’s even going to be electable in November (and no, I don’t want to hear about the general election polls now, when no Republican has even bothered to take a shot at him yet.) Please and thank you.

          • Dr. Krieger IRL

            Excellent questions.

          • No answers, though. Shame, because I’d like some. I probably should have answered their questions first, but I am intensely irritated at Bernie/his surrogates/his supporters right now, and not much in the mood to explain Hillary’s plans to someone who apparently doesn’t listen to her speak. She gives tons of detail about how she plans to do various things, and will actually say so when she’s asked about something she may not have the ability to do. I like nuance and realism.

            But I really do wish I could get my head around how Bernie plans to effectively accomplish anything. I live in Florida and remember 2000 – I won’t be able to live with myself if I don’t vote for the Dem, even if I don’t like him.I just wish I felt better about the possibility that he could get the nomination. Repeated cries of “revolution! ” are not doing it for me.

          • Dr. Krieger IRL

            I like Bernie overall, but so many of his ideas feel like he’s promising the sun and moon to accumulate support, and many of his platform planks will up and disappear when it comes time to perform.

            As Rebecca has been saying all along, they’re both good. I personally like Hillary more because she’s really politically savvy and would know how to make deals and compromises without standing on an unattainable ideological post. Nonetheless, I’ll vote straight Democrat regardless of the nomination, as should any reasonable Dem.

            I love your username, by the way.

          • Thank you!

          • cleos_mom

            Senate Democrats might have just a few problems with a President who used their party to get into the White House but dismissively blew off the idea of fundraising for down-ticket Democratic candidates.

          • Dr. Krieger IRL

            Straw man arguments, vague arguments, ad hominem attacks…

          • stray_bullett

            Pointing out the lack of specifics for her “I believes” and “I’m againsts” on her web site is hardly vague. Nothing I said was “ad hominem”, it’s clear you don’t know what that means. Look it up. Nor was anything I said even remotely a “straw man” argument. If you don’t know how to use rhetoric, avoid it. You just end up looking like an idiot.

          • Dr. Krieger IRL

            Like you?

          • King of America

            Almost all the positions she currently has are identical to the ones she had in 2008.

          • stray_bullett

            Her lack of specifics was a problem in 2008 as well. So all you’re saying is she ‘s no better a candidate than she was in 2008. Not good enough to be the president then, and with the same vague “I believe” and “I’m against” crap, she isn’t good enough to be president now. I will admit that if Sanders DOESN’T get the nomination, I’ll be voting for Wall Street’s candidate. HRC

          • King of America

            There are no “lack of specifics” – she has given relatively detailed plans on how she intends to achieve almost all her policies.

        • stray_bullett

          I could go on and on. See my next post.

        • cleos_mom

          IMO much of that is a flip-side of “behind every great man there’s a woman.” No way should a Member of the Vagina Community have thought of anything like that herself.

      • Vegan and Tiara

        Oh, I appreciate that Sanders pushed her harder to the left, I’m just irritated that Sanders supporters won’t vote for her. It infuriated me when Susan Sarandon suggested there would be no difference between Hillary Clinton and Ted Cruz. In 2000 we had a choice between Al Gore and George W. Bush, but all the Nader supporters in Florida had to “vote their conscience,” even though it was a tight race. I’m sure the hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis that Bush left in his wake really appreciate people voting their conscience. WHENEVER there is a choice between a Dem and a Rep, you ALWAYS vote for the DEM. ALWAYS!!!!!
        You don’t act like a fucking stupid baby and stay home. I’m voting for either Clinton or Sanders, I’m NOT staying home if my choice doesn’t get the nomination.

        • stray_bullett

          First off, LOVE your moniker! Just pre-ordered their new CD today. Heard a couple cuts off it, sounds pretty main stream pop. We’ll see.
          Second – I am NOT one of those Sanders supporters who would refuse to vote for Wall Street’s choice. As I said, the choices past Sanders or Clinton are completely untenable.

          • Vegan and Tiara

            WHAT???? You’re trying to tell me that a Ted Cruz presidency wouldn’t be a delight???? How dare you!!

    • Biel_ze_Bubba

      Those who fail to learn from history (Nader) are doomed to repeat it (Sanders). Even the GOP, for all that they don’t understand, understand this much – hence the incessant pressure to “support the nominee”, no matter how terrible he is.

      • Vegan and Tiara

        The GOP establishment LOATHES Ted Cruz, but they’re all falling in line behind him. I read today that Bernie’s line about Hillary accepting $4.5 million from the gas and oil industry is WAY off. I understand he’s trying to win, but even he must realize his chances are slim, and if he keeps her from getting elected, this country is going to be fucked for decades. I’d really appreciate it if he’d lay off the shit about her not being qualified to be POTUS.
        I STILL haven’t recovered from the Bush years, and I sure as shit can’t pay for another massive tax cut.

  • feministing

    welp, a male poster just told me i yelled at them (while cursing at me) because i said i don’t think the age/era is a good excuse for sexism and now i think i need to take a break from here for a bit. i’ve cherished this place for it’s respectful bias but i can’t continue to be respectful anymore when misogyny has once again taken front and center as a campaign tactic and even those “on my side” are finding excuses for it. keep up the fight all.

    *violence as a parting shot, nice!

    • Don’t let the door hit you on your passive-aggressive behind.

      • Lamashtar

        That’s not cool.

        • It’s not cool to have a person put words in your mouth the way she did either and then lecture me for the words she decided I was saying. I was going to let her have the last word, until she came up and made this passive-aggressive comment. There are times you have to be uncool, to stand up for yourself.

          • Lamashtar

            You are BOTH good people, and valued on this website. Please don’t go down the hate road.

          • I appreciate what you are saying, and I’ll try to control my temper a little better. This one was just a step too far for me. Sorry.

          • King of America

            100% agree with Lamashtar here.

          • Dr. Krieger IRL

            Agreed with Lamashtar and Formerly-Mr. Corrections.
            You are valued here, Feministing and VirginiaDreaming, I enjoy many of the points and perspectives you share.

  • snark-lurker

    Meanwhile, back at the Rove lab, evil profesuure Kkkarl smirks: “Devvided today, deveatedd tomorrow.”

  • toomanyrappers

    Daggers for hands, you say? ;)

    Sexy.

  • Be Gin

    That picture of Lady Macbeth brought back to my doddering mind a limerick I made, back in the day when Bill Clinton was fooling around with his intern and Ken Starr was just beginning his career in porn.

    On the stage Lady Macbeth used to say
    “Out, damned spot-go away!”
    Now Ms. Hillary must rue
    that a dress blue and new
    Holds a gob of Billy Boys DNA.

    Ta-DAAAAA!

  • TheBidenator

    Alright fuckers, I want to fight so BRING IT.

    • King of America

      your opinions, whatever they are, are ill thought out, and your standards of personal grooming have been slipping for decades!

      • TheBidenator

        You didn’t have to get so nasty about it. Nasty. nasty guy.

        • King of America

          I am a disgrace to American royalty :(

      • Pierre_de_Fermat

        What about the elderberries?

    • Jenny

      Yeah where have you been all day??!?! FISTICUFFS!

    • Dr. Krieger IRL

      I think bacon I highly overrated, and I’m tired if it ruining cheeseburgers.
      Point.

      • coastal_66

        I completely agree, especially about the cheeseburgers.

  • Jenny

    Also off topic but where is KJ? Did I miss something? There’s a serious lack of mad about a thing rants!?

  • Rommelo Yu

    so you’re okay with her neoconservative foreign policy and her neoliberal domestic policies? She might be socially progressive but her policies and prescriptions based on urgency put her more center right.

    • mary5920

      If you read the NYDN interview, Sen. Sanders supports the continuation of the drone attacks. He’s not exactly a pacifist, either.

      • Callyson

        Not to mention that she and Sanders voted the same way 93% of the time in the Senate. Not saying that some of the 7% weren’t on significant policy differences, but this whole attempt to paint Hillary as a DINO is all kinds of messed up FFS…

        • DesertedPictures

          Some of those significant policy differences where on gun control, where she is to the left of Sanders.

        • careful_driver

          It’s not so much that she’s a DINO as she and her husband were significant players in the Democratic Party’s move drift towards the centre/right. I’m not exactly all-in on Bernie and think Hillary would do a good job in the Oval (not that a foreign national like me can vote for president anyway) but I had assumed the neo-liberalisation of the Democratic Party was unreversible for the foreseeable future. Bernie’s unexpected success has given me hope that the party can still be dragged back to the left.

      • Which is horrible and he needs to be taking to tasks for such a stupid policy stance, as does Hilary Clinton who also supports this awfulness (with Nobel-prize winning Obama standing right besides her) with full approval (which kinda goes to show how deeply entrenched the slimy tentacles military industrial complex is in our body politic, which you’d think might be cause for concern, but they got a hold of “our side” now, so I guess it’s legitimized enough not to make a big deal out of anymore like we did with that one guy. Oh well.)

        By the way for more info on which candidates “yah drone!” (Hint: almost AOTK. See, bipartisanship!) visit here:
        http://dronecenter.bard.edu/presidential-candidates-on-drones/

        Interestingly, here’s one candidates who does not support drone strikes (who’s words, of course we’re Not Suppose to Pay Attention To, despite making a salient snd crucial point.) Care to explain the problem with this Jill Stien:

        In a 2012 debate organized by Democracy Now!, Stein said, “No matter who is sitting in the Oval Office, we need to be standing up and demanding the kind of foreign policy we deserve. That is, a foreign policy based on international law and human rights. The drone wars are dreadful. It is said that they are actually 2% of their victims are thought to be key operatives within al-Qaeda or associated groups, so the vast majority of the people who are being killed are not significant operatives.”

        But she’s part of the Green Party so feel to apply to ol’ strikethrough font through her words so that we know to ignore her sensible advice.

        • King of America

          Stein is leader of a party that advocates homeopathy, anti-GMO, and other anti-science nonsense. She should not be taken seriously.

          • careful_driver

            Even when she’s right? That doesn’t see, like a sensible approach.

          • King of America

            What is she “right” about?

        • Dr. Krieger IRL

          “significant operatives” in a group that is basically an anarchist band of warlords and heroin producers. Hmmmm….

        • mary5920

          I’m not at all happy with drone strikes. It seems to me that for every leader of ISIL they take out, 10 more young men get radicalized to fight against what they see as an attack on Islam.
          I actually find this a no win situation for a president because the Middle East meddling, dating back to medieval times, is an enormous weight that years of the military industrial media complex has only exacerbated. If most Americans got behind a sane foreign policy that didn’t involve murder, it would more likely happen but even then, there would be resistance from the war machine.
          I would like the president to always work for conflict resolution; but again, that’s easy for me to say! It’s also easy for Jill Stein to say because she doesn’t have to enact the policies she’s advocating for.

    • Pierre_de_Fermat

      I don’t like the “Liberal Hawk” stuff either, but that probably goes back to the FDR and HST administrations, and became a real split over Vietnam. It seems to be in the water in DC because it is almost a default for the so-called “wise men” (aka “deep state”). There is a liberal reason for it (“no more Rwandas”) and a conservative (“American exceptionalism/imperialism”). The consistent criticism of this approach comes from both left and right (though it seems to be a built in thing on the right, there have been steady attacks on it). Note the criticism PBO has received when he has NOT done the military response. From both sides. This is a longer term issue, and in the end it is unlikely there is a satisfactory answer. Until we find The Next George Kennan™

    • Dr. Krieger IRL

      Bernie has some hawkish foreign policy stances, too. In fact, he’s basically toeing the party line internationally.

      • Brendan_M

        Bernie opposed the war in Iraq and Hillary supported it. That is enough to disqualify Clinton from getting progressive support (in the primaries).

        • King of America

          Bernie voted to fund it. You might also want to google his relationship with Lockheed-Martin, which disqualifies him from getting progressive support (in the primaries).

          • Brendan_M

            Voting for defense appropriations is an extremely stupid reason to oppose a candidate. The idiocy and craven betrayal of the Iraq vote is an excellent one. I vote for the most progressive candidate I can in every election, primaries and generals. Is there some logical conclusion to your dumb comment? Are you suggesting a write-in campaign for Dennis Kucinich? A desire for purity only goes so far when there are two candidates.

            I live in Ohio, so I’ll be voting for Clinton in November. But delusions about her rotten record are best saved until after she wins the nomination.

          • King of America

            Irony is a dead art to you.

          • Brendan_M

            You suck at irony.

          • King of America

            No I don’t. You just refuse to accept that Sanders has a record that’s just as patchy and imperfect as Clinton’s.

          • Brendan_M

            You support Hillary Clinton and that is fine. I’m not as morally flexible when there is a better choice still available, but no judgements!

            But the Iraq war was and remains the biggest issue of our time and continues to be the dividing line of whether you’re on the right or wrong side of history. Clinton has a fairly progressive record with plenty of militarism and subservience to Wall Street and a little racism. Sanders has a very progressive record with several blind spots and bizarre attempts to pander to constituencies outside of his base.

            To pretend that this makes them more or less equally-flawed requires a remarkable level of self-delusion. Sad!

          • King of America

            OK, everything you just said was nonsense.

          • Brendan_M

            The head in the sand strategy: tried and true.

            I will never forget and never forgive anyone who supported the illegal and idiotic invasion of Iraq. Were you a supporter of that dumb war? Is that why you are pretending it’s no big deal?

          • King of America

            Yes, I get that you’re self-righteous.

          • Brendan_M

            On Iraq, it is easy to be righteous, self-righteous or not. It was a clear evil that all decent people should have opposed.

          • King of America

            Please stop talking.

          • Brendan_M

            If you can’t even address the biggest political debate in modern American history, why are you on a politics blog?

          • King of America

            You have a lot of other websites that will happily function as an echo chamber for you, and where your fact-free screeds will go unchallenged. This is not one of them; you’ve had your error pointed out to you, and you still want to argue. Do it somewhere else.

          • Brendan_M

            Ironic.

          • greenearthman

            That is hardly true. Voting to fund our troops-who were inadequately equipped at best, due to the Cheney/Rumsfeld axis of evil and their rosy predictions, which controlled W, is not even close to voting for the ill-advised and just plain wrong war against PEOPLE, we launched in 2003. We, you and I personally, have the blood of hundreds of thousands of human beings on our hands, not to mention the untold suffering of many times more. Yes Bernie may have made a few mistakes(I’d like some citations on that), but whatever they may have been,they couldn’t approach the magnitude or aforethought of much of what Hillary has done. His vote against victims of gun violence being able to sue the manufacturers is not on his short list of mistakes, imho. Oh, I missed the irony, too, wherever it was hidden. And yes, I will vote for the Democratic nominee, even if it’s Hillary. The general is a long way off right now, but she looks like a loser to me. I’m not as optimistic as Sarandon.

          • stray_bullett

            Uh, yeah, you pretty much do suck at irony. You’re also pretty much an idiot when it comes to rhetoric. Go argue with yourself in the corner.

        • David Spencer

          Yeah, but he voted to fund it, and anyway, a lot of us don’t care about a mistake someone made 13 years ago, especially when that mistake is spelled I R A Q.

          FYI, most of us are over Vietnam, too.

          • Brendan_M

            You probably think Jews are whiners for talking about the Holocaust. You are probably (definitely) an awful human being.

      • stray_bullett

        Jeez, you are pretty much an idiot aren’t you. Back up any of the crap you say. What are his hawkish stances?

        • Dr. Krieger IRL

          The mountain does not come to Mohammed.

        • coastal_66

          Sanders said (in his disastrous NY Daily interview (the one where he finally had to give some details of his positions and plans)) that he would support the continued use of drones, for example. Give it a read.

          • stray_bullett

            He’s nowhere near the hawk Hillary is, a fact she is genuinely proud of and has touted in many of her speeches.

            If she’s bragging about her get tough policies (which in fact are even more vague than Sanders’, if you want to talk about detail), are you going to argue with her?

          • coastal_66

            you freaking asked what his hawkish stances were. I named one. deal with it. this wasn’t about degrees of hawkishness. it was about you claiming he didn’t share any of those stances. not pure Bernie! NOoooo…!

    • David Spencer

      When your candidate is running to the left of Bill Maher, 99% of all US foreign policy is going to strike you as “neoconservative.” That doesn’t mean that the rest of us are going to accept your definition.

    • greenearthman

      She’s just like all the other mainstream Dems. At least if a couple of Libertairans run there will be someone different. Maybe too different for me, but different.

  • bobbert

    We wouldn’t be authentic lefties if we didn’t have our own internal drama.

  • gingerland62

    When I think about Bernie and Hils, a certain quote from Ginger Rogers comes to mind,
    “I did everything Fred did, but backwards with high heels on.” It’s like playing basketball with boys. You can’t complain when you get an elbow in the boob, but a knee in the crotch is a flagrant foul, when you play with the boys and you are a girl-it’s their way or you are not getting in the game. Where are the “true progressive women” running for high offices right now? Nowhere according to the purists because women have learned to get what you eventually want(in a male dominated work culture), you have to make compromises. Being a Senator from vermont Im sure he had to deal with the big maple syrup conglomerates and all the awful crime going on there. Bernie lost my vote about 3 weeks ago. The stealth sexism coming from his campaign manager is just gross.

    • annabelle

      No “true progressive women” according to the purists? Aren’t you talking about the same people who regularly throw their panties at Elizabeth Warren and Tammy Baldwin?

      • MissNomer

        Have you checked out their FB pages lately? They’re both being harassed and threatened by Berniebros.

      • gingerland62

        Warren, Harvard Law…progressive? Bankruptcy law? Didn’t she say something once about being native American. Tammy Baldwin who? 2 women, one kind of famous, the other…not so much so you have proven my point.

    • cleos_mom

      But the dumboundery over a female candidate for POTUS being “ambitious” is understandable. When he was growing up, the girl was always supposed to let the boy win.

      • gingerland62

        I call it playing “basketball with boys”. I had 3 brothers I know how that goes.

    • stray_bullett

      In case you hadn’t noticed, playing the gender card everytime you turnaround isn’t going to work. Learn from Obama’s campaign against HRC. He refused to even discuss race. By doing that, it kept the issue out of the forefront of the campaigns.

      • gingerland62

        In case you haven’t noticed, sexism is real. The perception of female as weak is one we contend with on a daily basis. Whether you believe it is sexist or not doesn’t really matter.

  • H0mer0

    Is there a problem being an antichrist? Akshully, that’s a good metaphor to esplain the mindset that brought us Dubya and the Iraq. I mean I like the egalitarian concepts that Jeebus symbolizes but that doesn’t mean I’d vote for a non historical figure that somebody made up.

    • Takoma DC

      Isn’t that always the gop strategy?

  • Msgr_Moment

    Haven’t thought about this in a while, but I don’t think I’d kick Glenn Close out of bed for boiling my bunny.

  • flipdraw_mc_graw

    “My aunt screeched like a common Hillary Clinton.”

    Read more at http://wonkette.com/600438/hillary-clinton-ambitious-monster-with-daggers-for-hands-yes#OjPOc9PpuLxCz6gb.99

    And then I was reminded to donate some munneez. Thank you, my Wonkette, for your service to this great republic.

  • rayy

    I think Bernie’s losin’ it. Doesn’t he have anybody to rein him in before he hits actual trumpomania levels?

    • Takoma DC

      Very true! Mr. Sanders is finally losing his squeeky clean image. I myself am looking forward to hearing about the time he pumped his on Chilean gasoline and didn’t compost his daily morning Communist Central American coffee grinds.

      That reminds me. Isn’t there anyone to rein in Bill Clinton?

      You’d think by now HRC would’ve hired handlers for Mr. Clinton. He couldn’t keep it together over a few BLM folks. Pretty pathetic.

  • BeaBull Apocalypse

    It seems as if partisans aren’t willing to admit that their dog has fleas too. There are no perfect candidates so we’re going to have to vote for someone as they are. There is no option to just vote against everyone you don’t like and it’s no use going flamethrower on a perfectly acceptable candidate because he or she isn’t perfect. We’re all in this together folks

    • Pierre_de_Fermat

      Yeah. Really. You will never agree with everything a candidate is for/against. If you want that, run yourself. It can get lost in a campaign though. Most folks ultimately decide what they are *really* for and what they’d like. Kinda messy in the meantime, but …

    • Takoma DC

      Exactly.

    • 451 Byrnes

      NO! BERNIE IS GOD!

      As explained by Steve Buscemi:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkBDkwa_WrU

      Airheads, a totally underappreciated flick.

  • Mr Sincere

    Are we never going to learn the lesson of 2000: political purity —> 8 years of George Bush? Sigh….

    • Brendan_M

      Nader didn’t run in the Democratic primary, so you don’t really have a point. Hillary Clinton threatened that her supporters might not vote for Obama in 2008, but nothing really came of it.

      • King of America

        Hillary Clinton made no such threat.

        • Brendan_M

          Your memory is shitty or selective. The 2008 race was much, much more bitter than this and Hillary Clinton did not lose gracefully. The racial stuff coming out of her campaign was shameful; she never came out and said that her racist supporters would never vote for that unqualified boy, but she implied it.

          And after all of that, she endorsed Obama and campaigned effectively for him and her supporters, for the most part, supported him.

          • King of America

            So quote the threat she made.

          • Brendan_M

            You really should just go look at the Wonkette archives and relive the glory days of the PUMAs and Lady Lynn Forester de Rothschild calling Obama “elitist”/uppity.

            http://www.nbcnews.com/id/23134717/ns/politics-decision_08/t/clinton-ally-some-whites-not-ready-obama/
            http://www.counterpunch.org/2008/04/25/how-clinton-courted-racists-in-pennsylvania/
            http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/12/us/politics/12campaign.html?_r=0

          • King of America

            That’s not Hillary Clinton. That’s not even someone who works for Hillary Clinton. You said that Hillary Clinton threatened to have her supporters not vote for Obama; that simply isn’t true.

          • Brendan_M

            Did you just hop off the turnip truck? Are you a newborn child? Are you a baby in a crib? Is Donald Trump hovering over you, wondering what your gozongas are going to look like in 18 years?

            For the riskiest attacks, campaign surrogates and representatives deliver them. All of those people were Clinton’s. Bill Clinton was chief among the race-baiters warning that white Clinton voters won’t support Obama. Are you going to pretend he wasn’t part of the campaign? Hillary Clinton is responsible for the messaging that came from her campaign. If it was one or two isolated incidents, it could be dismissed, but it wasn’t, and it can’t.

          • King of America

            So to sum up – no threat from Hillary Clinton, which is what you claimed.

          • Parque_Hundido

            Nope. Feel free to keep your fingers in your ears. All we hear from you is: ” Lalalalalalalala”

          • King of America

            I cannot imagine how mad and sad you’d have to be to start stalking someone on the internet.

          • stray_bullett

            “Stalking??” I can’t imagine how paranoid you’d have to be to assume people who think you’re kind of an idiot are going to stalk you.

          • King of America

            This person followed me here from another blog – so yes, stalking.

          • Parque_Hundido

            I’ll let you ponder that. You seem to be the expert on mad, sad and pathetic.

          • Brendan_M

            The Clinton campaign made the same kind of threats that some supporters of Sanders are making now, except with the added racist element. Hillary Clinton is more than an individual, she is the head of a campaign, and she mostly made her threats through others and in the same way she refused to say Sanders was qualified by refusing to answer the question.

            I never said Hillary Clinton said her supporters won’t vote for Obama. You are playing a semantic game to avoid the issues. When you claimed that none of the people I cited worked for Clinton, that was a lie.

          • King of America

            “Hillary Clinton threatened that her supporters might not vote for Obama in 2008”. This is not a semantic game; this is you making outrageously false claims. When I pointed this out, you doubled down on.

            This’ll be the last time I bother to respond to you.

          • Brendan_M

            She did make those threats, indirectly herself and directly through her surrogates. If you are too much of a fucking coward to account for Iraq, you aren’t worth talking to, either. Eat shit and die, see you on the front lines against Trump in a few months.

          • King of America

            Sorry, you’re wrong.

          • Brendan_M

            She declared Obama wasn’t qualified (and John McCain was) and her campaign argued that America wouldn’t elect a black guy. Her campaign called Obama unAmerican. The central argument of her campaign once she started losing was that her racist supporters wouldn’t vote for Obama but Obama’s black supporters would have no choice but to vote for her, so it would be disastrous to nominate him.

          • King of America

            So no threat then. Weird!

          • King of America

            And to save you time – neither of the people in the first and last article say anything remotely like your original claimed “threat”. I didn’t bother reading the Counterpunch one as it was just general smears.

          • Parque_Hundido

            Let me fix your little post: “I was wrong and concede the point.”

            You’re welcome!

          • Brendan_M

            The racial stuff was part of the general effort to dismiss Obama as an unelectable, unqualified niche black candidate. I was giving you context, but willfully ignorant people will ignore whatever is inconvenient.

          • King of America

            I didn’t ask for context – I am aware that some Clinton supporters in 2008 were nearly as bad as Sanders supporters – I asked for you to link to the very specific claim you had made. You cannot.

            I’m not really interested in filling this website with you yelling about Clinton being racist or whatever you think; I am interested in the truth, and you are not telling it.

          • King of America

            Also, Counterpunch is pretty awful, FYI – you’d be better off never believing anything they say (this is also true for HuffPo).

          • Brendan_M

            The direct quotes from Clinton’s spokespeople should be ignored? The links to AP and NYT articles should be disbelieved? I don’t read those blogs, but this is a weak response.

          • King of America

            There were no quotes from a Clinton spokesperson, let alone from HILLARY CLINTON – the person you were accusing – that threatened to withhold support for Obama.

          • Brendan_M

            http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ferraro-resigns-from-clinton-campaign/
            Hard to resign from a campaign you’re not a part of.
            Ed Rendell was one of Clinton’s chief media surrogates.

            All of this is tedious. My point is that this campaign’s divisiveness pales in comparison to 2008, so all the Hitlery shills and Bernie Bros should calm the fuck down and stop pretending this is an apocalyptic battle.

          • stray_bullett

            Brendan, he’s a lost cause. He isn’t making any effort to prove his point and ignoring facts to contrary of his stance. He is a lazy voter. It was the campaign that released the press release threatening that more than 50% of Clinton voters will vote for McCain if Obama gets the nomination.

          • King of America

            My “point” is that you are wrong; the way to disprove it would be to link to a threat that Clinton made that in any way resembled the original claim. You cannot do that, so instead you are resorting to insults.

            This is not your echo chamber. You’ll not that nobody here is saying Sanders is 100% responsible for what his actual campaign manager said – that is because we are not zealots.

          • stray_bullett

            I told you the month and the year. Do your own homework. I know it’s there and that’s good enough. You’ve already shown disdain for web citations. While you sit there saying “nope, nope, nope…..”

          • King of America

            FFS

          • mary5920

            I like your comment about calming down, thanks.

            I remember Geraldine Ferarro going off the rails. This from your link: “Hillary Clinton said on Tuesday that she disagrees with Ferraro. In a brief interview with The Associated Press, Clinton was questioned about Ferraro’s remarks. The Obama campaign has called on the New York senator to denounce them.

            Clinton said, “I do not agree with that,” and later added, “It’s regrettable that any of our supporters – on both sides, because we both have this experience – say things that kind of
            veer off into the personal.”

            “We ought to keep this on the issues. there are differences between us” on approaches to health care, energy, experience, she added.”

          • King of America

            An honorary position does not make you an employee, and you will note that she was fired (she did not really quit) because of the very quote you linked to earlier. MY point out is that she STILL didn’t make this supposed threat that you claim happened; and certainly Hillary Clinton didn’t. Please don’t make up stuff.

          • cleos_mom

            Honey, you got nothin’. “Tedious” is just a variation of QUICK! LOOK OVER THERE!!!

          • Brendan_M

            Does no one remember Clinton’s race-baiting campaign where she declared that John McCain was qualified to be president but Barack Obama wasn’t? Or are you being willfully ignorant or disingenuous?

          • stray_bullett

            You need to read a little more carefully. Her campai said that in a press release. It was sometime in May of 2007. Do your own effin’ homework

          • King of America

            A better answer, rather than insults, would be to quote the threat.

        • stray_bullett

          Her campaign did make such a threat and over half of Hillary’s supporters at one point in the campaign said they would vote for McCain before they would vote for Obama. She also questioned whether a black candidate could carry the democrats to victory. She said that on Meet The Press. Forgetting history makes you make the same mistakes. But maybe you haven’t learned that yet.

          • King of America

            Please quote when she said that.

        • Parque_Hundido

          Hope harder!

    • Parque_Hundido

      Didn’t that also involve someone named Kathryn Harris, some non-functioning voting thingies and an electoral college?

      Feel free to blame people who wanted a functioning democracy, but that little episode of our nation’s political history was like an episode of the Dukes of Hazzard where Cletus and Boss Hogg steal the prize pig. Not so sure Nader had a speaking part in that little show.

      • Mr Sincere

        Nader is what made it all possible. He was the producer, the Scalia was the director, and Katherine Harris played a bit role. If a few hundred of the “ultra-pure” had voted for Gore instead of throwing away their votes on some nebulous concept of “a functioning democracy” (we’ve already got one, thank you, and it would have elected Gore instead of Bush — or do you still not understand the difference between Gore and Bush) there would have been nothing for Katherine Harris nor the Supreme Court to do. No Iraq war, no Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, etc etc.

  • Celtic_Gnome

    This whole Bernie versus Hillary argument is so ridiculous. Everyone knows Obama is going to name himself Emperor For Life and usher in the thousand-year Democratic Realm.

    • stray_bullett

      We should be so lucky.

  • Parque_Hundido

    This is all a ruse. Trump is broke and needs the contract for that wall. Hillary and Obama are going to come out as secret gay Muslims and move to GayMuslimistan. The NewWorld Glitteratti will take over and FEMA will put America into camps, just like the crazy uncle at my family Thanksgiving said.

    As for Bernie, I think this was something he did on a dare and prolly wishes he hadn’t.

  • Andrea Wisner

    The problem with Hillary Clinton is not only corruption, it is involvement in the deaths of over a million people, many women and children, around the world. This is not a right-wing hit. It is reflected in progressive news outlets, The Atlantic, The Nation, and Salon, as well as the Huffington Post, Al Jazeera, Democracy Now!, AlterNet, etc. You really have to read through all of them because each gives a slightly different perspective. Pay attention to information surrounding the recent assassination of Berta Carceres in Honduras.:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-honduras-coup-memoirs_us_56e34161e4b0b25c91820a08

    http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/9/hillary-clinton-honduraslatinamericaforeignpolicy.html

    http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/secretary-of-state-hillar_b_9273712.html

    http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2016/03/hillary-clinton-faux-feminism-160328105225310.html

    http://m.democracynow.org/stories/16030

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2016/03/10/hillary-clinton-needs-to-answer-for-her-actions-in-honduras-and-haiti/ – Not a Progressive publication and doesn’t even mention the fact that the Clinton Foundation took a large piece of land and forced out dozens of farmers to build a factory that employs less than 1/10th of what the Donation promised, and about which there are numerous allegations of wage theft and corruption.

    I’m having a really hard time finding the specific Atlantic article, but found these:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/daily-dish/archive/2009/07/a-hack-at-any-price/198764/

    http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2003/04/we-have-a-pope/302700/

    http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/03/the-white-savior-industrial-complex/254843/ (and linking NYT article on Honduras)

    http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/03/in-arming-libyan-rebels-the-us-would-follow-an-old-dark-path/73019/ – and Clinton went forward with this plan, and ISIS arose.

    And Obama’s retrospect, in which he blames Clinton to some degree: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/04/the-obama-doctrine/471525/ –   A great article on an intelligent, if not perfect, President. It’s extremely long, but worth reading through even if you have to break it down into smaller pieces. If you want Obama’s and Biden’s opinions on Hillary Clinton (i.e. that she is a Conservative hawk, at least as far to the right as many Republicans, and has “poor judgement” – as stated clearly by Tulsi Gabbard), just use your Find function and look for the word “Clinton.” His contempt for, even anger at, her is apparent, and he may even give her a good portion of blame for the “shit-show” that came out of the invasion of Libya, especially the strengthening of isis.

    These are not hits from far-right conspiracy theorists, and if you throw away the conspiracy stuff and the Anonymous videos, she still comes out looking like an extreme and vicious war hawk.

    See also http://m.democracynow.org/stories/16109, on hawkishness, and all those other progressive publications which also address her hawkishness.

    http://www.salon.com/2015/09/10/what_hillary_clinton_wants_you_to_forget_her_disastrous_record_as_a_war_hawk/

    http://www.thenation.com/article/left-ought-worry-about-hillary-clinton-hawk-and-militarist-2016/

    Etc. See http://www.google.com/search?q=Hillary+Clinton+war+hawk+military+historian in general, which includes publications from other countries, concerned about her pulling the world into war.

    She would keep us constantly at war, not keeping us safe, but putting us in danger by angering people all over the world. Why? War helps the “in-crowd” steal our country blind. In the end, it’s about money and power.

  • GodBlessRealAmerica!!

    Low energy liberals and the Democrackhead party will LOSE big in November!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TRUMP is going to Crush Crooked Hillary in the election its happening we comin Trump 2016!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!

  • dje3

    Come on, Hillary goes to a Caribbean Island and delivered US aid of hundreds of millions, the next week her brother in law gets the contract (the ONLY license ever issued for mining in that country) to mine all the gold in their mountains for about 1/3 the concession rate globally.
    She delivers US funds to other countries and those countries return millions to the Clintons through their organizations.
    She allows the TORTURE FOR HOURS AND THEN MURDER of a US Ambassador and LIES to the public over the cause, and in doing so creates harm to a fail-maker and life threats against him.
    I don’t even want to get into her illegal file server and the number of people that have actually READ the TOP Secret files therein, including her attorneys who are NOT cleared for that information. Did she know it was illegal and a security threat? We now know that she was NOTICED IN WRITING of that. She was also NOTICED in SEPARATE EMAILS after most of the TOP SECRET emails were received that keeping them on a server was ILLGAL and that they must be digitally shredded immediately. She failed to do that.
    The liberals under Obama/Clinton prosecuted Petreus for MUCH LESS, they took away his right to hold ANY elect office in the process. But guess what, the law only applies to Conservatives and Republicans, not Liberals or Democrats.
    This woman is a liar, a thief, and a true sociopath, She belongs IN PRISON, not in PUBLIC OFFICE OF ANY LEVEL.

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