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univisionmoderatorsLast night, the showdown was ON. Two candidates took the stage, coiffed for battle, ready to face down and parry the ludicrous personal attacks and brutal hypocrisies of their worst enemies: the debate moderators.

Wait, What Now?

Yes, Wednesday’s Democratic debate was notable less for disagreements between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton and more for the viewing audience legitimately wondering if the Univision moderators were about to start tossing rotten fruit at both of them. Let’s leave aside that the English-language translators sounded like they had been pulled directly from studying for their sophomore Spanish midterm and thrust in front of a microphone (at one point, one of them referred to the candidates as the “protagonists” of the debate, which … we guess isn’t technically inaccurate?), because moderators Jorge Ramos and Maria Elena Salinas of Univision and Karen Tumulty of the Washington Post were on a whole other level.

We are all in favor of candidates we like facing tough questions. Tough questions are what not only keep the candidates honest, but show how well they’d be able to face GOP attacks in a general election. They are a necessary and vital part of the primary process.

Unfortunately, what we got was not tough questions. What we got was this:

RAMOS: If you get indicted [are] you going to drop out?

CLINTON: Oh, for goodness — that’s not going to happen. I’m not even answering that question.

That’s an actual moderator in an actual debate lending credence to a Republican fever dream conspiracy (and it wouldn’t be the last time in the evening, as Evan covered so ably earlier). Incredibly, it only went downhill from there.

“But Why Won’t Both Of You Say This Specific Buzzword?!”

Tumulty won the night’s stealth dumb question with this one:

TUMULTY: Secretary Clinton, you have known Donald Trump a long time. You have seen what kind of campaign he’s running. Secretary Clinton, is Donald Trump a racist?

And to Bernie:

Senator Sanders, do you think it’s fair to call Donald Trump a racist?

Now, that might look like a reasonable question to you. You might be annoyed that neither Bernie nor Hillary answered it directly by saying, “Yes, Donald Trump is a racist.” You know why both candidates refused? BECAUSE NEITHER OF THEM IS A FUCKING IDIOT.

If they gave Tumulty the “yes” she was clearly seeking, the media wouldn’t stop shouting about how they said the R-word, and ain’t nobody got time for that. Bernie and Hillary have actual important shit to discuss. Both responded to the question by condemning Trump’s words and his bigotry, and showed solidarity in so doing (which made us love them both so very much — seriously, YOU KIDS STOP FIGHTING ABOUT WHETHER MOMMY OR DADDY IS THE ANTI-CHRIST AND GET OFF OUR LAWN). Tumulty, however, seemed visibly annoyed that neither of them would say her buzzword.

“Madame Secretary, Tell Us Why And How You’re Actually An Asshole.”

Shortly before Ramos brought up Benghazi like a fucking Breitbart columnist, Tumulty was at it again:

Secretary Clinton, a Washington Post poll just yesterday found that only 37 percent of Americans consider you honest and trustworthy. Now, when you’ve been asked about this in the past, you have said that this is the result of many, many years of Republican attacks upon you. But Americans have also had 25 — more than that — years to get to know you for themselves.

Is there anything in your own actions and the decisions that you yourself have made that would foster this kind of mistrust?

What the hell is this question? Like any candidate, Hillary should face questions about her policies — what they are, how she would implement them, whether they set us on the right path, whether she’ll adhere to them once in office. All of those are fair questions we would like to see asked!

Asking why people just have a generally bad feeling about her, even after all these years, and how it must be her fault, is not the kind of question we ever need to hear again. It’s the same vague “UGH, what is wrong with your personality?” sexist bullshit Hillary has been facing her entire career, and frankly, we are really tired of it.

To his immense credit, even Bernie had a “Wait, what the balls is this shit?” look on his face when they asked her this.

Time For Some Red-Baiting, Huzzah!

Lest you think Clinton was the only one subject to some oddly phrased questioning, OHHHHH NO. Bernie got it every bit as badly:

SALINAS: In 1985, you praised the Sandinista government and you said that Daniel Ortega was an impressive guy. This is what you said about Fidel Castro. Let’s listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANDERS: You may recall way back in, when was it, 1961, they invaded Cuba, and everybody was totally convinced that Castro was the worst guy in the world. All the Cuban people were going to rise up in rebellion against Fidel Castro. They forgot that he educated their kids, gave them health care, totally transformed their society.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SALINAS: In South Florida there are still open wounds among some exiles regarding socialism and communism. So please explain what is the difference between the socialism that you profess and the socialism in Nicaragua, Cuba and Venezuela.[…]

Senator, in retrospect, have you ever regretted the characterizations that you made of Daniel Ortega and Fidel Castro that way?

What is the difference between the democratic socialism Bernie Sanders talks about and the brutal, dictatorial communist regime of Fidel Castro? Like, besides how they are two totally different political ideologies, and they’re not even spelled the same way? This question is a slightly more intellectual-sounding way of shouting “SOCIALISM BAD!” like a Lou Dobbs caller. It’s the modern equivalent of “Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?”

“Interrumpiendo La Vaca MUUUUUUUUUU!!!!”

It wasn’t just the questions themselves, either. Remember when Evan made that hilarious interrupting cow en Español joke yesterday? Yeah, so did the Univision debate moderators, apparently, because they spent the entire night doing it, repeatedly cutting off both candidates halfway through (not unreasonably long!) responses. Any time Bernie and Hillary started to go back and forth on a subject — y’know, to have a fucking debate — all three moderators brusquely attempted to force them to move on. At two separate points, Ramos told Bernie “You have 30 seconds,” then tried to cut him off before he hit 15. Even Hillary looked like she wanted to say “For fuck’s sake, let the man speak.”

It wasn’t just that they were interrupted, either, it was how relentlessly dickish the moderators were about it. Four separate times (three for Bernie, one for Hillary), the candidates had clearly finished speaking, but the moderators made it a point to snap “YOUR TIME IS UP” anyway.

So That Was The Most Badly Moderated Debate We’ll Ever See, Right?

God, we hope so.

We’re still trying to figure out what the hell happened last night. Did Bernie poison Maria Elena Salinas’ dog? What member of Jorge Ramos’s family did Hillary do Vince Foster to? We would make some crack about “when did Univision get taken over by Fox News,” except we watched the last GOP Fox News debate, and the moderators in that one actually asked smarter questions than Univision did.

We can’t think of a bigger insult to lob at them than that.

[WaPo]

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  • Msgr_Moment

    If these are the moderators for the GOPs tonight, it could be kneecapping time.

    • Spotts1701

      If these were the moderators, the audience would jump them.

    • FlownOver

      So who gets punched in the face – Tapper or Dash?

      • Msgr_Moment

        Tapper? Dash? Is this debate conducted in Morse code?

        • Spotts1701

          Semaphore and smoke signals.

        • FlownOver

          Oh, there’s some serious “code” going down.

        • ken_kukec

          We have a message coming in from the RNC: dot-dot-dot … dash-dash-dash … dot-dot-dot.

  • Nounverb911
    • JustPixelz

      Bernie has finger Turette’s.

      • MissNomer

        That is SO ANNOYING. He refuses to listen to her. He makes faces, waves his arms around, points his fingers like he’s calling a waitress, anything but pay attention to what she’s saying. It’s distracting and extremely rude. He’s not listening, he’s just waiting for his chance to speak, and generally acting like a child. This is a common tactic of sexists. Hillary calmly and politely pays attention to every word he says and doesn’t try to distract from him. That’s how you’re supposed to behave in debates, if you’re a grownup.

    • JaaaaaCeeeee

      I was so worried that Maestro Bernie would die of side eye at the moderators and Hillary.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9F1VMCjWXuM

      • J_JamesM

        That was fucking hysterical. Samantha Bee was wasted on the Daily Show; I always hated her segments. Full Frontal totally surprised me. It’s a gem.

  • Indiepalin

    Missed it. I was watching Hap & Leonard.

  • Spotts1701

    There really should be a rules lawyer on the side to yell “OBJECTION!” when the moderators behave like this.

    • ken_kukec

      Objection, Your Honor … my client “allegedly” did/said that stuff.

  • Rick Hill

    You need to ask yourself one thing before you attack the mods: If no one answers Aot, is it a gotcha question?

  • OneYieldRegular

    Maybe this was part of the Trump/Univision beauty pageant settlement?

  • Callyson

    And–UGH–the professional commentators at WaPo and the NYT actually said the mods were good because they asked hard questions (though the NYT did allow that they were tougher on Hillz.) I weep for the future of journalism…

    • DoILookAmused2u ?

      This is the future of journalism.

      • FlownOver

        Optimist.

      • ken_kukec

        You’re joking — journalism has a future?

        • DoILookAmused2u ?

          “Man trying to rape a dog captured on cell phone video. We’ll have that and other stories when we return from this commercial break”.

    • richardgrabman

      What did you expect? The WaPo was in on the mud-wrestling extravaganza.

  • A Grumpy Cat, Not Esq.

    I find myself getting irritated as fuck when Hillary or Bernie answer questions with the DC two-step. There are times when I would love for one of them to just be like, “Fuck yeah, Trump is a racist misogynistic asshole, and both of us (granted, one metaphorically) have bigger balls than that prick.” But, unlike the Trumpkins, I also realize that being a politician means being diplomatic and couching your answers in careful language.

    (Seriously, though, whoever wins, if it’s the last days of your term and you’re retiring to public life, please just call him a douchebag, just once.)

    • Randy Riddle

      “Trump – like your question – is beneath my contempt. That is my answer.”

    • Anarchy Pony

      Smart answer is: is he racist himself? I don’t know, but he definitely seems to be appealing to racists.

      • MissNomer

        Is he racist? I don’t know, but he says some very racist things.

      • A Grumpy Cat, Not Esq.

        There was a DoJ investigation of possible racial discrimination in one of his projects in the 80s, I think? I suspect he’s always had it in him.

        • Anarchy Pony

          Oh I’m pretty sure he his, personally. That just would have been the smart way to answer.

    • edith prickly

      It was a dishonest question. Tumulty was pitching to get her fellow villagers an easy headline. “DEM CANDIDATES CALL TRUMP A RACIST!!” and relieving them of the tedious task of writing about policy discussions when they could be covering a Twitter meltdown by Trump instead.

      • A Grumpy Cat, Not Esq.

        No doubt. A girl can dream, though.

    • I feel like Obama could say that. He’s not running for reelection.

  • FlownOver

    ¿Quién es más tonto(a): el hombre preguntando, o una de las mujeres?

  • UncleTravelingMatt

    Yeah! The Somocistas may have engaged in massacres and the rape of nuns, but at least they understood that the price of a goddamned tamale should be decided by an unregulated free market.

    • Rick Hill

      Oooops. You’re reading the republican’s platform.

    • leemoder

      As is God’s will…

    • ken_kukec

      “… decided by what an unregulated free market is willing to pay a hereditary strongman government to force the campesinos to work the land.”

      FIFY.

      • richardgrabman

        A hereditary strongman propped up by U,S. military assistance.

  • OrdinaryJoe

    Univision has been cut a lot of slack over the years because, well, let’s be honest, the spanish thing gets lefties in a breathless hot orgasmic lather. The reality is, their news capacities suck and have always sucked and their on air “talent” would be lucky to have jobs doing farm price news for a South Tejas NBC affiliate if they were in English language TV. There. I got that off my chest. Carry on.

    • UncleTravelingMatt

      I haven’t watched Univision in 2 years, or so, but at the time I had a similar thought. While most of their programming was Mexican-oriented, it seemed like their news had a distinct South Florida vibe.

  • DoILookAmused2u ?

    El segundo pregunta es, por que usted chupa?

  • Oneofthebobs

    “Jorge Ramos, are you a rapist, a murderer, or both?”

  • whitroth

    Hang on a minute: “brutal Communist dictatorship”?

    Now, I’m not going to defend everything either country did, but a) how does Castro’s Cuba compare to the Mafia-owned Havana under the brutal dictatorship of Battista? And didn’t Castro try to get help from the US before turning to the USSR? I know as a matter of fact that Ho Chi Minh did….

    And Nicaragua? You mean, where Reagan was sending money to pay for right-wing death squads, when Ortega’s people got into power? And what exactly were they revolting *against*… why, gee, a right-wing brutal dictatorship….

    And a lot of the first few waves from Cuba were, of course, Mafia, and Batttsta’s coterie, and those who prospered under them.

    Time to stop rewriting history.

    mark

    • Shhhh, you’re not supposed to remember what Cuba was like under Battista Especially not if you’re in Florida.

    • Zippy

      Yup, those contras were some nice fellas- they just weren’t real happy with the democratically elected government in Nicaragua at the time. Interestingly, Nicaragua was one of the few Central American countries we weren’t able to completely ass rape, which is why today very few of the refugees we see at our borders come from there. El Salvador and Guatemala OTOH…

    • Shibusa

      Indeed. During Batista’s long reign of corruption, Cuba became very profitable for US businesses and organized crime outfits.

      • UncleTravelingMatt

        That will happen when your economy relies on a business that puts obscene amounts of cash in the pockets of the Secretary of State, the Director of Central Intelligence, the Ambassador to the UN, and the husband of the President’s personal secretary, among others.

        • Anarchy Pony

          Ain’t the deep state a bitch?

          • UncleTravelingMatt

            Bums me out that they are still around, but, on the other hand, I like bananas, so what are you gonna do?

          • Anarchy Pony

            Potassium is important…

    • UncleTravelingMatt

      Quiet, you. The very last thing anyone needs to hear about is the brutality and corruption of UFCO’s Man in Havana.

    • calliecallie

      Castro started a 28 year war on Christmas. There’s that.

      • Skadi

        Say, you know who else started a war on Christmas?

        • calliecallie

          Wonkette?

    • xy

      what are those? facts? thbttt. facts are for losers and nerds.

  • Mojo

    Yeah once the debate basically started off with “Hillary you lost Michigan when you were supposed to win it, why are you such a failure and loser?” and THEN right afterward THAT was followed up with “Bernie, your behind in the pledged delegate count by a fair margin why are YOU such a failure and loser?” I knew That it’d be a show….

  • NorthStarSpanx

    And here I thought I selected the Family Friendly version of paid content being shoved against my eyeballs.

    • Zippy

      WAIT! This isn’t actually the bottom of the page?

      • BigBoppa

        That one in the lower right is the bottom.

        (Rimshot please)

    • mailman27

      I got a new ad blocker a couple of months ago and I get NONE of this shit anymore. Am I allowed to say who?

      • NorthStarSpanx

        Why not? Say it is a so!

    • Anarchy Pony

      I don’t think that lady has anything to do with Prom, but I’d like to get to know her a little better…

  • JustPixelz

    “the democratic socialism Bernie Sanders talks about”

    Bernie Sanders refuses to call himself a Democrat. He invites the comparison of his brand of socialism to any other socialism a GOP super-PAC wants to name. This is a self-inflicted wound and, IMHO, it is fatal to his candidacy. He swift-boated himself with those “I (heart) Castro” videos.

    • Relativicus

      I say if it can be said he invites the comparison, he invites it by using the word at all, not because he doesn’t pair it with some subset of the ideology. Since way back, before Saint Ronnie, the 1950’s, and Robber Barons, the wealthy have programmed us against socialism in any form. And as a people, we’re not particularly good at nuance, either. So I don’t think trying to distinguish his brand of socialism from the others would matter a whole lot to anyone who, upon hearing the term, reflexively envisions Stalin, Mao, Obama, or Alan Alda.

    • JaaaaaCeeeee

      The last time a Democratic Socialist ran for the presidency, he won four times. The transcript of Bernie’s Georgetown speech is where he explains that he is an FDR Democrat.

  • Sheepshagger

    Donde esta la mota? Por fumar?

    • DoILookAmused2u ?

      No tengo dinero
      Pero
      Quiero a fumar la mota.

      Sad, traditional song there ^^^

      It always makes me tear up.

  • Relativicus

    Christ, Tumulty is going to be even more of an ass than usual if she’s on tomorrow’s Diane Rehm weekly domestic wrap-up. Basically, it’ll be about 20 minutes of her spouting off on The Narrative (The Narrative says Clinton is a lying murderer who’s such a liar she even lies about whether she’s a murderer, which she is but she’ll never say so, the lying murderer). And poor Karen would love to set the record straight, but there’s this The Narrative that everyone is saying words about and who is Karen Tumulty to question or answer that?

  • What, nobody was asked if they’ve stopped beating their spouse?

    • Celtic_Gnome

      There was a time when the right practically demanded that Hillary beat her spouse.

  • Blank Ron

    When you are being unfavourably compared with Faux Noise, you should be re-evaluating your career choices. They might want to consider something like, oh, manual septic tank cleaning, or bathroom attendant at the All-Texas Amateur Chili Cook-Off.

    • Latverian Diplomat

      Every time a network tries to be more Fox than Fox, it just makes Fox look good. Time to figure that out guys.

    • ken_kukec

      I’d say “talk radio,” but that would be redundant.

      • Relativicus

        Redundant annnnnd unnecessarily repetitive.

  • Latverian Diplomat

    “The narrow focus on Benghazi represented Punyvision.
    The time given to responses looked like Cartoonivision.
    The live audience responded with Boonivision.
    The folks at home changed the channel all too Soonivision.
    The moderators acted like they were on Buffoonivision.”

    with many, many apologies to Tim Kazurinsky.

  • Bitter Scribe

    I think Univision went out of its way to show that it wasn’t prejudiced against Republicans, by crapping on Democrats.

    • Latverian Diplomat

      “Coaching the ref: achievement unlocked!”

    • DoILookAmused2u ?

      That sort of compensation is pretty common.

      • BigBoppa

        I think it’s now called Journamalism 101.

        • Zippy

          BOTH SIDES DO IT!

          OPINIONS DIFFER!

          WE’LL HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE!

  • mrFawkes

    I have here in my hand a list of 205 people I picked at random from a phone book that could do a far better job at moderating than you three.

    • Biff52

      I really wanted my number to be unlisted…

      • BackDoorMan

        … but then you found out Ma Bell charges extra for that?

  • ken_kukec

    “… one of them referred to the candidates as the “protagonists” of the debate, which … we guess isn’t technically inaccurate?”

    Mebbe, but some explication of the agonist/antagonist dichotomy playing out on stage was called for here. I mean, “interpreter,” right?

    • edith prickly

      Well considering how many political journalists seem to be writing fiction instead of fact, “protagonist” might be the right word.

      • Celtic_Gnome

        And since the entire Presidential race is being portrayed as a reality teevee show, protagonist is spot on.

  • Pinkham’s Law

    So, two articles ablut how bad last night’s debate was, and they haven’t even gotten to the technical issues. Trump wouldn’t pay the soundman, I can tell you that! Not a dime. Horrible sound guy, just horrible. The worst. I don’t know how he keeps his job!

    • Zippy

      Non union, I’m sure

    • Anarchy Pony

      Not classy.

  • When Hillary said, “You know, if the values are that you oppress people, you disappear
    people, you imprison people or even kill people for expressing their
    opinions, for expressing freedom of speech, that is not the kind of
    revolution of values that I ever want to see anywhere” I just so happened to be reading an article on my laptop about Saudi Arabia’s human rights abuses. That’s probably my favorite thing that’s happened in these debates.

    • Shibusa

      You might find this NYer article interesting. I did.

      • BigBoppa

        Linky not worky :(

      • I did! It’s especially depressing because Americans tend to see Iran as being as bad as Saudi Arabia in these regards. While Iran DEFINITELY ABSOLUTELY is flawed from any progressive perspective, it did recently have, for example, a woman who was highly educated into the PhD level through Iran’s own native universities becoming the head of Iran’s Department of Health and Medical Education.

        I don’t think it’s so much a conscious manipulation of American public opinion as just the fact that we’ve seen Iran as the bad guy for decades now, but it is still disconcerting that a nation that shows some sign of social progress, however uneven, is still cast as the villain of the region while our ally is held to a diplomatic double standard no matter how horrific its abuses become…but I guess at least the American public is under no illusions about them?

  • Pinkham’s Law

    I really, really liked the way both of them started to ignore the mods telling them their time was up. “Fuck you, I’m not done.”

    • JaaaaaCeeeee

      I love the audience. My favorite was when Bernie got interrupted 5 times before his time was up by the moderators, then Hillary, then the moderators said “next question” and the audience booed almost as long and loud as when a futbol announcer yells “goaaal”.

      Started 51:17 with the booing at 52:40 forcing the moderators to let it go on all the way to 54:30, including Hillary trying Bernie, for guilt by association, with the Koch brothers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DslY5BonpVQ

  • Blueb4sunrise

    I don’t understand why this isn’t all over the internets. I post it here, but, there’s that no-comments thing.

    https://vine.co/v/iHelJ9u9t67

    • MarkM

      Clearly the man is made of Presidential timber!

      • Spotts1701

        Pure Canadian maple, yep!

        • MarkM

          sigh…

        • Zippy

          WORST BULLWINKLE IMPRESSION EVER!

    • Shibusa

      Ted’s federal government shutdown, in a nutshell.

      • MarkM

        In this case, the nut is out of the shell.

    • MrBlobfish

      Moose impression. Showing his Canadian roots.

      • ken_kukec

        Palin semaphore salad.

    • BigBoppa

      Having just watched it, I’d say it’s not all over the Internets because half the people who’ve seen it are busy puking and the other half are gouging their eyes out.

      Now, if you’ll excuse me……

      • MarkM

        Puking? Or eye gouging?

    • Blank Ron

      ‘Hey, Rocky, watch me pull a nomination out of my ass!’

    • Angry and Short

      Is he Mooslim praying? I don’t see his rug.

    • Zippy

      Lol, saw that on my facederp feed and went WTF?

    • sw19womble

      Occultism/Illuminati signs – you’re doing it wrong.

    • hollydturner

      Moose and squirrel.

    • Darkest Timeline Zach Morris

      Did someone ask him if he was going to become President?

    • MrBlobfish

      Is he on the crazy Idaho shooters list of hypersexual, hyperaggressive paranoiacs from Mars that are in the gov’t?

      • Antonin Dvorak

        I don’t know if anyone saw this come across the wire but, the Idaho pastor that emceed Cruz’ rally there was actually shot and is in the hospital.

    • TheBidenator

      Is that Bullwinkle’s face from that time when Rocky administered the “shocker”?

    • Zyxomma
    • Is that the international sign for, “I’m from Canada, but they threw me out, so I went to Texas where being an asshole is okay.”

    • Biff52

      He learned it from this asshole:

  • MrBlobfish

    Wait. Aren’t all female Univision on-air talent supposed to be stuffed into tight dresses with their boobs hanging out?

    • MarkM

      Like this?

      • chicken thief

        What are they doing on my patio?!

        • Nezrite

          Lolling, I’d say.

          • Biel_ze_Bubba

            Not to be confused with loling, which is what they’d do if they saw my “patio”.

          • Nezrite

            Yeah, I was trying to figure out how to work in “loling” but couldn’t find the angle, having not seen the cigarette-butt-strewn slab of cracked concrete with the overturned Home Depot bucket “chair” you call a patio. Clearly, I’ve decided I’ve seen it in my mind, though.

          • Biel_ze_Bubba

            You’ve captured the essence of the space, if not the details. Add the dim suspicion that there might be a Mafia victim under the slab, and you’ve got it pegged.

        • Relativicus

          And why are they wearing my lingerie?!?

      • Pinkham’s Law

        Daaaaaaaaammmmmmmn! I’m a happily gay-married guy and I’D be distracted by them showing up at my pool.

        • ahughes798

          I would be too, and I’m straight….someone who is good-looking is good-looking, and you will probably look at them, no matter your gender or marital status.

      • Markuserektus

        Does Univision carry Miss Bumbum?

      • TheBidenator

        Come to Bidenator….

  • dshwa

    Well let’s face it, the vast majority of Americans prefer watching a cat fight to an actual substantive debate. Univision is only playing to the audience.

    • Angry and Short

      Needs more Lucahdores

      • Markuserektus

        !1!

        • Angry and Short

          That’ll do

      • Zyxomma

        Y luchadoras, tambien.

  • Msmlg1979

    This question is for Mrs. Clinton: Why, Madam Secretary, do you not have the common decency to have a penis?

    • toomanyrappers

      This isn’t about that and you know it.

      • Msmlg1979

        It tells me a lot about you that you think, and by think I mean tell yourself, this is a country in which women receive equal representation and opportunity to lead as half the population.

        Educate yourself, and come back, and we can talk about the context of my comment. Here’s a good place to start.

        http://www.ncsl.org/legislators-staff/legislators/womens-legislative-network/women-in-state-legislatures-for-2015.aspx

        • toomanyrappers

          I want the right woman. This isn’t about gender and you know it.

          I’m sorry he isn’t Bernadette. I like his agenda and his track record.

          Stop it.

          • Msmlg1979

            My point is, in many, many people’s eyes, there is no such thing as a right woman. Why else would our state legislature have less than 25% females in service, when we are slightly over half the population? Hilary Clinton, love her or hate her, has dealt with disgusting sexism during her time in the public eye. As First Lady, she was picked apart for everything from her hair to her weight to her clothes to her decision to stay with her cheating husband. Her husband was called a pussy for having a strong, independent thinker of a wife. Instead of focusing on who she was, or what she stood for, she got to bake cookies and hear how ugly she was all the time, how unseemly and masculine. I like Bernie. I would vote my ass off for Bernie. But fact is, Bernie, as a white male, does not face the same hurdles as any female candidate. My comment is in regard to those hurdles that women, not just female politicians, face every day.

          • toomanyrappers

            I can name the right woman right now. Elizabeth Warren is the face of the Democratic party. She will be president someday. If she had wanted to, she could have taken the job this coming January, but she decided to wait until 2020. That’s fine; she has me at “hello”.

          • MissNomer

            Saying you’re not sexist because you’d vote for Liz is exactly like saying you’re not racist because you like one black musician.

          • toomanyrappers

            I don’t owe you shit.

          • MissNomer

            I don’t want your shit, so I guess that’s good?

          • toomanyrappers

            You’re a neoliberal. You’re a fake. Saying you support Sanders doesn’t mean you really do. You’re a neoliberal. You’re GOP lite.

            Are we done? Happy?

          • MissNomer

            Was that supposed to make sense?

          • J_JamesM

            Don’t you just love it when people appoint themselves the arbiters of your identity? Gives you the warm fuzzies, doesn’t it?

          • toomanyrappers

            Just accusing you of supporting Clinton’s policies. Prove you don’t.

          • DemmeFatale

            No, YOU stop it with the “you know it” nonsense.
            (You think you’re really clever when you say that, don’t you?)

          • toomanyrappers

            Nope. I’m just tired of being bullied.

            Take your ad hominem red herring and shove it.

        • toomanyrappers

          Let’s talk about your thinking.

          STAGE 1: Polite condescension toward what is perceived to be harmless (we think it’s really wonderful that your views are being aired).

          STAGE 2: Light, casual mockery as the self-belief among supporters grows (no, dears, a left-wing extremist will not win, but it’s nice to see you excited).

          STAGE 3: Self-pity and angry etiquette lectures directed at supporters upon realization that they are not performing their duty of meek surrender, flavored with heavy doses of concern trolling (nobody but nobody is as rude and gauche online to journalists as these crusaders, and it’s unfortunately hurting their candidate’s cause!).

          STAGE 4: Smear the candidate and his supporters with innuendos of sexism and racism by falsely claiming only white men support them (you like this candidate because he’s white and male like you, not because of ideology or policy or contempt for the party establishment’s corporatist, pro-war approach).

          STAGE 5: Brazen invocation of right-wing attacks to marginalize and demonize, as polls prove the candidate is a credible threat (he’s weak on terrorism, will surrender to ISIS, has crazy associations, and is a clone of Mao and Stalin).

          STAGE 6: Issuance of grave and hysterical warnings about the pending apocalypse if the establishment candidate is rejected, as the possibility of losing becomes imminent (you are destined for decades, perhaps even generations, of powerlessness if you disobey our decrees about who to select).

          STAGE 7: Full-scale and unrestrained meltdown, panic, lashing-out, threats, recriminations, self-important foot-stomping, overt union with the Right, complete fury (I can no longer in good conscience support this party of misfits, terrorist-lovers, communists, and heathens).

          Linky for you: http://www.commondreams.org/views/2016/01/22/seven-stages-establishment-backlash-corbynsanders-edition

          Lemme guess, you’re gonna say “it’s not about that.”, right? ;)

          • Msmlg1979

            You got all THAT from my penis comment! Hahahahahahaaaaa!!! Tell me more about what I think, Bernie-Bro, like you have told women what and how they should say and think on here before. Remember Anna Elizabeth? I DO. Now don’t get upset like you have before when people used the Bernie Bro phrase. Act like one, get called one. Don’t tell me what to say. Don’t tell me what to think. Don’t presume to tell me what I know. You know exactly zero about me, but that I made a feminist comment, and I am a woman, so ya think you should mansplain to me. I will state again..I think Bernie is an excellent presidential candidate. I respect him. I believe in the things he believes in. If he is the nominee, I will joyfully vote for him. Damn, some of Bernie’s supporters sure do miss many of his points. That is all. Mansplain somewhere else, cause sweetie, I need you telling me what to say as much as I need a hole in my head.

          • toomanyrappers

            Wow. All those clever little buzzwords and memes.

            No more third way. No more.

            I don’t owe you shit.

          • MissNomer

          • toomanyrappers

            16 smears in 16 hours right before the voting.
            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/62038dc7853c31f1ba638e53a0f823fa15287ef2992f8a5fa55cebe60624bf32.png

            Fuck your bullshit. Mansplain it to me.

          • Msmlg1979

            Memes? I posted no memes. Buzzwords? I don’t characterize words used to frame my thoughts that way. You’re right, you don’t owe me shit. I didn’t ask you for shit, cause you got nothing I need, but maybe you owe yourself the courtesy of not projecting your own worshipful Bernie mania onto a flippant penis comment. Keep ’em coming. Everyone sees right through it.

          • toomanyrappers

            You’re a neoliberal.

          • Msmlg1979

            Dear Bernie,
            Today, a woman posted a comment about sexism in politics. She didn’t specify her candidate of choice, or criticize you, but she said the words HILLARY CLINTON, and that burns like fire. You and she are enemies and both sets of supporters have to despise each other, right? That’s helpful, and will accomplish so much! I told her what she knows “this isn’t about”. What good is reading comments if I can’t infer whatever I want when someone says HILLARY CLINTON, and set that person straight! I know you believe in equality for everyone, and even you have defended HILLARY CLINTON against the sexist attitudes she’s always faced, but these bitches just don’t get it! The commenter has a vagina, and from that, I can, without a doubt, conclude she thinks HILLARY CLINTON should be president just because she’s a woman. She’s even upset that women are underrepresented in leadership, maybe because it is demeaning and frightening to live in a country that places so little value on the capabilities of her gender, but she said HILLARY CLINTON! I know everything about her from a few words on the internet. Aren’t you proud of me?

            Love,
            Toomanyrappers

          • toomanyrappers

            I’m not a real Democrat. I’m a neoliberal.

            Love,
            Msmlg1979

          • Msmlg1979

            You know what? From the bottom of my heart, I believe in your right to feel the way you do, and say what you’ve said, even though we don’t agree. We’re discussing different subjects, and you will never hear me or my point, but you’re free to do that as well. I support that. Have a good evening, wherever it is you call home.

          • toomanyrappers

            That was the point I was driving home the whole time.

            No matter what I say, you won’t listen–and I will always fail your litmus test.

          • TeeRaak

            God, I hate that meaningless word.
            https://media1.giphy.com/media/QfUSzeiwzN1jW/200w.gif

          • toomanyrappers

            That’s because you like the status quo.

            You are a middle aged white woman. The status quo has treated you well. That’s why gender issues are the only thing on your radar.

            You never called the landlord about bullet holes in your wall or laid in the bathtub in terror. You never watched cars come and go at a hours for six months before the cops finally shut down the drug house two doors down. You don’t have crushing student loan debt. You didn’t feel guilty for going to the movies or taking a trip in college. (Because successful people are always focused on working to succeed.) You didn’t listen to your professors tell you schools is your job–when you couldn’t survive without a job.

            Nope. It’s been smooth sailing. Maybe that’s why gender issues are the only thing on your radar.

            I don’t owe you anything. Fuck right on off.

          • DemmeFatale

            I heart you.

          • Msmlg1979

            The feeling is mutual!

          • Ulricii

            Step away from the kool-aid, Mam.

          • toomanyrappers
          • MissNomer

            ..

          • toomanyrappers
      • DemmeFatale

        The “you know it” part of your comment is really snotty and arrogant.

    • Kavefish

      If I were being generous, I’d have to compliment the Republicans on how many different and unique ways they’ve come up with for asking this question since the early nineties.

      But screw generosity.

    • TeeRaak

      I’m not going to answer that question
      http://liminalities.net/2-1/sdcp/images/hillary.gif

      • Msmlg1979

        Well, we all know men wear the pants, and now we know how she’s managed to keep hers up all these years!

  • Angry and Short

    Here’s what I have to say. FUCK THE CUBAN EXILES!!!! They need to get the fuck over it.

    • UncleTravelingMatt

      No kidding. They forgave the Spanish quicker.

    • Blank Ron

      They live surrounded by Lost-Cause-Of-The-South-ers. They’re quite used to the concept of flogging an extremely dead horse for ever and ever.

      • Steely_Fan

        Like this:

    • sw19womble

      One-percenters gonna one-percent.

      • Shibusa

        My kid goes to school with the daughter of very wealthy Cuban-Americans. At 9 years old, she thinks JFK was a monster and Obama is too, for normalizing relations. Sad.

        • Biel_ze_Bubba

          Can’t wait for the teen rebellion years . . . her parents have set her up so nicely!

        • janecita

          My kids think that Republicans are evil, fundies are awful and that Che Guevara was awesome, they also like Fidel.

        • Beamish Kinowerks

          that’s absolutely amazing

        • “…siempre los ricos fueron extranjeros,
          que se vayan a Miami con su tía…”
          –Victor Jara
          [“…The rich have always been foreigners,
          Let them go live in Miami with their aunt…”]

        • TeeRaak

          You could have left out the word “Cuban”.

          Wealthy Americans seem to have a lot of smug hate inside them.

          I’ve walked or ridden my bicycle through some of poorest neighborhoods in America…Harlem, Ciscero, West Dallas, Watts, the Tenderloin.

          No problems. Just normal people going about their business.

          I’ve traveled all over the world and hung out with poor people, mostly in rural areas. Grinding poverty. Yet, some of the happiest people in the world.

          Go to Denmark or any of the ” supposedly” high-status Northern European countries. Sit down at a bar and smile and talk to the person next to you. Unless you’re a young, good-looking blonde female, you won’t make a friend. It’s almost a feature of their culture to be unfriendly to strangers. Yes, they have poor people in Sweden, Germany, Holland, etc. Lots of them.

          Now go to a bar in Cuba. Smile and talk to someone. Chances are, you’ll have a friend after only a couple of hours.

          Money doesn’t buy happiness. As long as you have enough to eat and are not being tortured by a violent, repressive regime, most people are fairly happy.

          I don’t really like to hang with rich people.

          They seem to have an “us vs them” mentality. They want separation between themselves and the “riff raff”.

          Rich people want to “show'” everyone how much better they are than teh Poorz, with their fancy clothes, cars and houses.

          Deep inside, they seem insecure and afraid.

          WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?

          We’re here on earth for only a very short time…

    • janecita

      Hey! Some of us are nice!!!

    • ahughes798

      I agree that they need to get over it, by seeing that normalization of relations between the US and Cuba may help Cubans that live in Cuba in some areas of their lives, one of them being economically. I hope fervently that this is the case. A free flow of information between the two countries may be helpful in loosening the Castro’s stranglehold on everything.

    • TeeRaak

      “We like dictators. Different dictators”

  • harryr

    So Bernie once said some not totally nasty things about Castro. Well, Cruz’s Dad (allegedly) fought for him. Wonder how the South Floridians with open wounds feel about that.

    • Zyxomma

      Polite golf clap; an upfist was insufficient.

  • MarkM

    In other news, rejecTed FINALLY has his first endorsement from a fellow Senator-human rectal polyp Mike Lee:
    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/us-republican-candidate-cruz-snares-first-senate-endorsement/ar-AAgD3cl?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=edgsp

    • hollydturner

      Hey! Good for Teddy! He’s was picked!

      • Biel_ze_Bubba

        Picking at rectal polyps is probably a bad idea.

        • hollydturner

          They can pick each others….Try to lose that visual.

    • Steely_Fan

      Human rectal polyp libelz!!11!

    • Lefty Frizzell

      That’s his bum chum from the shutdown isn’t it? Surely nobody will make any political hay with that…

  • Joshua Norton

    The producers should have been publicly flogged in the break room if only for all the technical crap was horribly wrong.

    • JaaaaaCeeeee

      There was also the merely technical error of Hillary Clinton meeting with her aides during the commercial break against debate rules.

      • MissNomer

        Here’s a straw! Can you grasp it?

  • hollydturner

    You would think Univision moderators would be less antagonistic to these guys. It’s the other side of the aisle that hates their Latin guts and they hate their guts with impunity. Ask Trump.

  • ken_kukec

    The moderators’ questions remind me of a story I heard about a lawyer named “Tango” who represented himself at his own divorce trial. He launched his cross-examination of his soon-to-be ex-wife with the following question:

    “Isn’t it true you’re the biggest, lyingest whore that ever lived?”

    Forever after known in courthouse lore as “the Tango question.”

    • Steely_Fan

      Also, too “When did you stop beating your wife?”

  • JMP

    My guess is that the Univision anchors were afraid that they’d be tarred as being too favorable to the Democrats, and so pushed very hard to the other extreme.

    • sw19womble

      Say, you know who else overcompensated about something live during a debate?

      • JMP

        “Who am I, why am I here?”

  • AnOuthouse

    “What is your safe word? Is it ‘Monica’?”

    • toomanyrappers

      Blue dress

  • toomanyrappers

    Univision must have been confused. This wasn’t a GOP debate.

    Maybe they made it horrible to guarantee there wouldn’t be any more debates. That was definitely the last one.

  • kindness

    Meh….Sloppy blowjobs from Fox to Republican candidates is worse TV (because who wants to see that really?). You’d figure Univision would be a little nicer to the Democrats because our side isn’t openly racist. Who knows? Maybe every moderator there was mailing a tape of the debate to Fox HR minutes after walking off the stage.

  • chicken thief

    That is the first debate that I didn’t watch. Now I’m glad I didn’t.

  • Biel_ze_Bubba

    “Is there anything in your own actions and the decisions that you yourself have made that would foster this kind of mistrust?”

    “No.”

    (Benghazi hearing #6523, same old same old.)

  • TheBidenator

    I actually don’t see it being irrelevant to ask about controversial statements made about controversial leaders….I find it VERY relevant that Trump wants to get shirtless and bareback with Putin, for instance. If Hillary had a Bandar Clinton running around given how well Dubya’s love of Saudi Arabia’s government worked out for the Middle East from 2001-09 I would be concerned about it. So no, I don’t see it as irrelevant to ask someone who wants to be Commander-in-Chief to explain their positive statements toward people long regarded as US enemies. If anything, it should have given Bernie a chance to show off his chops and explain himself in a way that maybe would give another look at Cuba or Daniel Ortega.

    • JaaaaaCeeeee

      The latinos got it. Bernie hired really good Dreamers and immigration activists and really listened.

  • Selena60

    What’s the Spanish word for asshole?

    • Anarchy Pony

      Pendejo.

      • Moonshadow Kati

        I thought that was “dumbass.”

        • Anarchy Pony

          Could be, but I always thought is was asshole.

          • John Smith

            All I know is it will get your ass kicked at a stoplight in San Diego.

        • janecita

          We don’t really have an insult similar to asshole, pendejo is the closest one, pendejo (s) is really a slang word for pubic hair.

          • Courser

            LOLOL! I actually thought pendejo meant ‘dick’. so now I know better!

            Thanks!

    • UncleTravelingMatt

      Cruz.

    • janecita

      Jorge Ramos

  • Starfish

    Who are they kidding? They will never get ‘how big is my dick’ ratings…never!

  • Redgyal

    I know what happened. Jorge Ramos considers himself a Republican and thought he would score points with his betters by roughing up the Democratic candidates. In his mind immigration reform and economic progress would happen faster if he sucked up to them. He probably also thought that he has enough influence to sway Hispanic opinion.

    • janecita

      He is a one trick pony, immigration is his one thing. He never talks about the awful way, that Central Americans are treated in Mexico though! He was also a big cheerleader of the Iraq war. His daughter, works for the Hillary Clinton campaign.

      • JaaaaaCeeeee

        Univision and owner Haim Saban’s support of Clinton and the Clinton foundation runs deep, and asking her the stupidest questions that Republicans come up with is a tactic Rachel Maddow uses in interviews of Hillary before big primaries to give her the same chance those Benghazi hearings gave Hillary to show just how stupid the questions are.

        Hillary has really improved her retroactive classification retort.

        • Paperless Tiger

          A plot that thick will never fit down the rabbit hole.

          • JaaaaaCeeeee

            And it’s just politics that Hillary Clinton used her already fact checked accusation that Bernie voted with Republicans to help Minutemen vigilantes hunt down immigrants at the border, voted against rescuing auto manufacturing, voted against bringing immigrants out of the shadows in 2007 because he didn’t want US worker wages to fall (which doesn’t even make sense since that lowers wages most) and forgot Sanders’ work on improving guest worker protections in the 2013 bill he voted for, etc.

          • Cindyinencinitas

            I’m sorry but I can’t stop looking at that cookie.

  • Gayer Than Thou

    One thing that the media can do, if they wanted to do their jobs, is call Trump a racist. Because there is ample evidence of that fact, and it’s kind of the job of the media to report on and analyze facts that would disqualify someone from serving as President of the United States.

    • Cindyinencinitas

      Hahaha. Oh, you’re so cute.

    • blaid droog

      Jeezus, I really hate to go here considering how much I detest hufpo in general. Every blog about trump ends with these words. ” donald trump is a serial liar, rampant xenophobe, racist, misogynist, birther and bully. Then something about refusing entry to all muslims. Pretty good stuff, considering just a few months ago Ariana was consigning trump to the celebrity humor pages.

  • Zyxomma

    I’m glad the Wonketariat watched so I didn’t have to. OTOH, Gwen Ifill (of PBS NewsHour) let $carah get away with idiocy during that VP debate, oh so long ago.

    • blaid droog

      Gwen is part of the pbs news dinosaurs. They have no relevancy. For christ fucking sake, they still use that dumbass david brooks and who the fuck is mark shields

  • Enfant Terrible

    The Finns have a droll take on our election process, that is to say, completely accurate…

    http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/691b209fe7/finnish-news-team-reports-on-u-s-elections

    • zerosumgame0005

      ok that was funny : President Saxophone and the Elder Jew! HA Mr. Business Wig!

      • JaaaaaCeeeee

        And Greasy Rat! Greasy Rat!

        • zerosumgame0005

          yeah, that also too!

    • Zyxomma

      Love it. Shared.

    • Hardly Ideal

      “Greasy Rat?” Not bad, but I would’ve gone with “Senator Stranger Danger.”

  • janecita

    There you have it! I’ve been saying for a while, that Jorge Ramos is an overrated asshole. Maria Elena Salinas is as bad as he is. They are always kissing up to the Miami Cubans, it is beyond ridiculous. I’m sorry, but those are the two Mexicans that Trump should deport!

    • Hardly Ideal

      At the absolute least, Ramos hurled himself at Drumpf and made him look bad. He may be an asshole, but he’s our asshole, right?

      • roberteye

        Yeah he seemed heroic at the Drumpf rally. But last night just pandering to the pop culture. He’s an asshole and I don’t want him. The ironic corollary to that is, these candidates are on HIS side (or his people’s anyway) so it was incredibly short sighted… but the crowd booed the crap out of him when he asked the Benghazi question, which was straight out of the Republican talking points manual. And Karen Tumulty – never a good journalist.

        • lroom

          The saddest thing about these guys is the fact that to the Republicans they’re the same as any other immigrant. These were the only candidates that really were on their side.

      • janecita

        You can have my part, he irks me!

        • fredfnord

          Unused portions can be returned for a full refund.

      • DemmeFatale

        I thought so, (well, assumed so), until last night. He scored points for the Drumpf thing. But Benghazi? Unforgivable!

        Was all that pandering to the Cubans because of Florida?
        Because a lot of Cubans DO NOT have a perspective that is simpatico with many other Spanish-speaking cultures. (Just ask Cruz and Rubio.)

        I thought the gutsy Guatemalan woman with her children was the highlight of the night.

        • blaid droog

          The mexicans across the street from me don’t like the cubans living on each side of them. The cubans don’t like the mexicans living between them. I like the mexicans. They were here first, they have always been great neighbors and they always invite my partner and me to their parties. On the other hand three of my doctors are cuban. Three brothers all born and raised in the same neighborhood as me. Life is strange.

  • kaw143

    Wait. Were these moderators asking debate questions or were they field testing Peeple? Lessee, this “Hillary Clinton” let’s give her a minus one for trustworthy, and this “Bernie” something, mark him with hashtagprobablyacommie.

    • John Frum

      Older folks in Miami [cough likely voters cough] are terrified of anything that can be remotely construed as “communism” or “socialism”. That’s one reason why Dade county is such a hispanic republican stronghold, and why they are so hard on Bernie’s leftism.

  • UnsaltedSinner

    I suspect they think they were being very, very objective and professional by asking these question. It’s how you demonstrate that you are a Serious Journalist – you follow what Digby calls Cokie’s Law:

    http://digbysblog.blogspot.no/2012/07/villages-beautiful-and-fragile-glass.html

    “At this point,” said Roberts, “it doesn’t much matter whether she said it or not because it’s become part of the culture. I was at the beauty parlor yesterday and this was all anyone was talking about.”

    It’s out there, so we must treat it as if it’s a real issue!

    • alnnc

      I don’t think it’s because they are serious journalists, at least last night. They were lazy journalists, or more aptly, entertainment tv hosts.

    • Ducksworthy

      Thereby reinforcing the perception that…oh fuk this.

  • Walter Wellstone

    Univisión es una mierda. Todo el mundo lo sabe.

    • Meccalopolis

      univision mentira

  • roberteye

    Wasn’t Jorge Ramos considered the “Hispanic Walter Cronkite”, like when he was booted from Trump’s rally? He appears to be more the Hispanic Don Lemon.

    • JaaaaaCeeeee

      Not a Don Lemon. Ramos wants to be the Hispanic Walter Cronkite, but seems to me closer to a David Gregory when he was doing well.

  • Sheesko

    I thought I was the only one. I have never heard such horrible debate moderation in my life. My time is up.

  • ViveLaRes

    As a lifelong liberal, it pains me to say this but when I lived in SoFla I saw it all the time. The early waves of Cubans who fled Castro let their bitterness obliterate every other issue. Many who came in the early days were wealthy and had to leave their wealth behind. Thus they became Republicans here. That constituency still drives public policy that is detrimental to so many non-rich Cuban-Americans – and Cubans. But they don’t care. Seeing Univision play to that base is not surprising.

    • Walter Wellstone

      Like Fox News.

    • John Frum

      Agree. Plus, like I said to someone else earlier, Dade is a hispanic GOP stronghold because a) reagan bought the votes of the Mariel boatlift by naturalizing them en masse and b) they don’t like “socialism” because they associate it with the dictatorships they fled

  • On the other hand, this was the first show I’ve ever seen on Univision whose producers felt no need to enhance it with (1) women in bikinis (2) puppets (3) both.
    Maybe they should have.

    • umrguy42

      I might actually *watch* that debate if that were so…

    • John Frum

      You know, there WAS something missing I couldn’t put my finger on. You know what else was missing? A dog fight, a hit and run accident,
      and a guy beating up his girlfriend in front of a nightclub. Come back
      to Miami! We weren’t shooting at you!

      On the other hand, huge props for coming right outta the gate in Nasty Catfight Mode. Very Miami! It was SO Miami I’ll bet they told the moderators the debate started at two so they’d show up by 8.

      What really got missed was the opportunity to put Miami on the map as poster city for everything both of their campaigns are about. You think the Flint water crisis is bad? For exactly the same causes as Flint, Miami is in the early stages of a water crisis worthy of the Old Testament. And the softest targets in the “establishment” GOP are not only noteworthy for being EXACTLY the problem, they’re the specific cause of Miami’s problem because they’re fucking FROM FLORIDA. Wow, I didn’t think you could whiff at T Ball, but there it is.

      Or maybe they looked at the only-in-Miami dumbfuckery that leads to climate change deniers whoring themselves out to beachfront developers while Alton Road is under two feet of seawater RIGHT NOW and thought, whaddaya want from people whose main hobbies are cheap ass implants, and twerking. I mean, yeah we gotta fix climate change, but I’m gonna laugh so hard when that shit falls off.

      • blaid droog

        You forgot cock fights and goat sacrifices.

        • John Frum

          I was trying to stick to Miami stuff. Oh wait! The cock fight was tonight, during the GOP debate. The goat sacrifice happens when Rubio drops out. :)

          • fredfnord

            I thought the cock fight was during the last GOP debate? (Rimshot. Oh, no, wait, that’s a different sex act…)

          • Robyn Ryan

            It’s just the same here in Louisiana, but you get mardi gras beads at the cockfight and dress up in costumes for the goat sacrifice.

  • TeeRaak
    • John Frum

      Aww. See you on Mars, Mr Mostinterestingman.

  • McHitler (formerly Nuke90210)

    “Asking why people just have a generally bad feeling about her, even after all these years, and how it must be her fault, is not the kind of question we ever need to hear again. It’s the same vague “UGH, what is wrong with your personality?” sexist bullshit Hillary has been facing her entire career, and frankly, we are really tired of it.”

    I agree that it’s a stupid question, but is it sexist? Not quite. I don’t get how accusing someone of being untrusted by the general public is sexist.

    • arrrghle

      The things about her personality that people have been complaining about for friggin decades are all things that women are not supposed to be, but which are accepted and even admired in men.

  • blaid droog

    Fortunately, as the oceans rise, south fla will be one of the first casualties. It will be sad for the creatures living in the everglades when their home turns into salt water. With any luck the humans will be wiped out by stronger and more frequent hurricanes.

  • richardgrabman

    Sucky debate, but I wish Ramos had asked Hilllary about her support for the Honduran coup, instead of yakking about Bengazi. Honduras has a lot more resonance with those of us who actually watch Univision.

    • JayGoldenBeach

      Spot on, mate. The US has a long history of LatAm interventions/coups that is never mentioned in re: foreign policy and/or undoc immigrant discussions.

  • Kenji

    Millennial with names lie Perez and Martinez do not give a dry fuck about Univision and neither should you. But they know some shit. Trump for example. Theres a pedoso stinky fuck plus these kids vote and may tell their P’s to feel el Burnito.
    Oh. Wait. Except for occasional novelas and then soccer dudes because Chivas.

    • SDGeoff

      Got some good stuff there, duder?

      • Kenji

        Must be my pain meds acting up again
        . .

  • Bob Haskell

    Possibly the worst, and rudest, debate “moderation” ever. Although I don’t think “moderate” is quite the word for what those three did. Apparently there is some other ethos in Hispanic reporting that involves clamping down the bite and not letting go until they see blood. And the leading question “What do you think you may have done to make yourself unpopular?” reminds me of the classic “How long have you been beating your wife?” Despicable, all three of them. At least their tactics were.

  • going4baroque

    actual HRC quote from the debate:

    “It’s not easy to do what I think is right”

    There’s why people don’t trust her – most anyone does what he/she thinks is right without a second thought, not a problem at all acting from conscience. The easier way for HRC, apparently, is to do what her owners tell her, then defend and obfuscate later, and wonder why people don’t trust her.
    When an act is from the heart, there is no problem. When an act is contrived and mean-spirited, against the common good in order to benefit the dirty rich, then problems will follow.

    • Bobbski

      While not the dumbest f*cking comment I have come across on the intertubes this election season, it certainly ranks in the top ten. Congratulations.

      • going4baroque

        And while I don’t post incisive character analysis as part of a competition, to be judged by people whose brains are so obviously conditioned by political propaganda to render their opinions valueless to the extreme, I must say your response to my post is about the dumbest fucking response of any I’ve read, so I guess we’re even

        • jmk

          Your blither would probably be a bit more impressive if you weren’t posting it on every fucking flat surface.

          • going4baroque

            I see that you dropped out of the debutante finishing school

          • jmk

            Haha that’s highlarious. Also wrong, but mostly hiiiiiiighlarious.

            In between clutching your pearls and collapsing onto the fainting couch, you may want to realize that you’re on Wonkette, cupcake. We’re allowed to say all the big-kid grown-up words. That’s how we know that people who complain about the salty language on here do that because they can’t refute the point and they’ve got nothing else.

        • Bobbski

          How else would one keep up with clueless folk like you?

          • going4baroque

            keep fucking that chicken bobbski

          • Bobbski

            Seems I overestimated the number of functioning neurons you possess. Thanks for setting that straight, dumbass.

    • dianebk

      “most anyone does what he/she thinks is right without a second thought”

      No, that’s what impulsive, glib people do. Wise people look at the facts, consider the consequences, then try to make the best decision they can – sometimes as fast as they can – despite knowing that the consequences of their decision may be to upset a lot of people who can hurt them later.

      It ISN’T always easy to do the right thing. THAT’S the lesson most of us are taught from a young age. Were you not listening?

      • going4baroque

        Ah, I see, so when your child is crossing the street against the light and there is a fast approaching vehicle bearing down on your loved one, you will take pause to look at the facts and consider the consequences. One can only hope your children are not home-schooled. The only block to seeing and acting in the moment, with intelligence, are obscuring personal interests

        • dianebk

          Oh, please. That’s not what I meant and you know it. Grow the fuck up.

          • going4baroque

            so you don’t say what you mean, yes, Hillary wants you on her team, great minds thinking alike, and all that, and I’ll stop now so you don’t have to put together another “intelligent” response

  • HiHoSilver

    I don’t trust Hilary, not because of her gender, but because of many of the things she said and done. It makes it appear as if she stayed by Bill Clinton – not because she loved him (which she may very well have, I don’t know) but also because if she had left him then – she would have been saying buh bye to any future political opportunities. She’s ALWAYS been one to stay near the reins of power. In short – she stinks of political opportunism.

    I like Bernie because he seems incredibly genuine and honest and seems to have a keen eye as to the frustrations of the common people.

    • JayGoldenBeach

      Bill’s charisma and Hillary’s brains = winning combination, also lucrative.

      Bernie has decades of consistent, genuine advocacy for regular people.

    • dianebk

      “In short – she stinks of political opportunism.”

      Good god, did you just deliberately single out Hillary Clinton for THAT?? That’s like saying, “I don’t like that politician because he’s trying to get undecided voters to vote for him because their votes are up for grabs. He stinks of political opportunism.”

      Every politician stinks of political opportunism because that’s how they succeed in politics. Do you really think any politician is going to pass up any chance to look good, score points, make friends, maneuver around their rivals, take advantage of relationships, downplay their failures and trumpet their successes?

      Show me ONE politician that hasn’t done any of that, and I’ll show you a footnote in the history books.

  • SDGeoff

    They’re all looking for new jobs at Fox and CNN.

  • kath1y

    Hillary talks like a lawyer, perfectly capable of phrasing things so that it’s technically the truth but only just. Not to be confused with the whole truth.

    And you wonder why people don’t trust her.

    • veska

      Well, she WAS a lawyer.

      But I get what you’re saying. Some people assume it’s because she’s a female doing this, but for me, any person who can’t give me straight answers skeeves me out.

      • Tansy Geek

        With Ted Cruz you get both an unstraight, possibly parabolic, answer and a punchable face.

        • veska

          At least there’s the punchable face. If only it wouldn’t put you in jail…

    • Dutchman

      Sort of like a great many lawyers that are running for this and other elected offices? I know, how dare a lawyer sound like a lawyer!

    • jmk

      And if she straight up gave the impression that she was a blabbermouth who would spill anything because she has no filter and no discretion?

      They’d be all over her for that, claiming that chicks gossip so you can’t trust ’em.

      I don’t notice her parsing the facts any more or less than any other politician.
      Regardless, I’m fine with her erring on the side of discretion.

  • uniquename72

    “we watched the last GOP Fox News debate, and the moderators in that one actually asked smarter questions than Univision did.”

    It pains me to say it, but for the past 12 years Fox has had both the best debate moderators and the best election night coverage.

    MSNBC and CNN are both at the kids’ table comparatively.

    • BreakingDeadMen

      Comedy Central did pretty good. But, yeah, the Rove/Ohio thing was must see TV.

  • Dutchman

    I’ve substantially stopped viewing the debates and now get the scoop from the Wonka-Babbies compatriots here. It prevents brutal hangovers and errors in my project tasks.

    For the Bernie Bros and BernBots I have a thought to share: All Hail President Trump!

    Please allow that to internalize and act accordingly.

    • feministing

      2 sides of the same coin.

  • JayGoldenBeach

    Univision is kinda Fox-Lite. Its founder is a conservative (now-billionaire) Italian-American born and raised in California.

  • thatdamnbob
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