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Just plain GROSS

All of us who are not Family Values Republicans agree on this whole “Ewwwww, Duggars, you are DIS-gusting” thing, right? RIGHT. Josh molesting his kid sisters is gross and bad and wrong; his parents hush-hushing it because their God says those whores shouldn’t have tempted Big Brother with their vaginas to begin with is EVEN MORE gross and bad and wrong; and the Arkansas state trooper friend of the family who gave Josh a “very stern talk” and then dropped the whole matter, thereby allowing the statute of limitations to expire before Josh could be investigated and charged and convicted and sent to prison, is also gross and bad and wrong, for letting Josh Duggar get away with it, but also because corrupt ex-trooper Corporal Joseph Hutchens is now doing 56 years in the pokey his own self for being a child pornography sex-crimer, and WHAT EVEN THE EFF is in the water in Arkansas?

But Officer Kiddie Porn says, from prison, it is not entirely his fault that Josh Duggar is a free man today. It is the fault of Duggar patriarch Jim Bob, because he is a big fat liar:

But Hutchens, in his only interview since the Duggar scandal has been uncovered, says that Jim Bob told him about only one incident of molestation and that, in part, is why he decided not to report Josh to the abuse hotline. […]

He said the fact that it was a one-time incident influenced his decision not to report it. “I did what I thought was right and obviously it wasn’t,” he says. “If I had to do it over again, I would have told him immediately I am going to call the hotline and contacted the trooper that worked those cases and have a full report made. I thought I could handle it myself.”

Oh, well, if it was just the one time that Josh molested a single child, sure, why not let the whole thing go? Everyone knows you get one freebie when it comes to molesting kids. And it’s not as if pedophiles are known for being repeat offenders. Who among us hasn’t shrugged it off when a friend tell us, “I caught my son diddling my daughter,” because it was JUST THE ONE TIME?

If convicted sex-crimer Hutchens had known that non-convicted but admitted sex-crimer Josh Duggar was actually sex-criming a whole bunch of girls, repeatedly, that would have been an entirely different story, but NOOOOO, Jim Bob lied to him, that bastard. And who you gonna believe — a sex-crimer or a sex-crimer accomplice? (The correct answer is FUCK ALL THESE PEOPLE, UGHHHHH!!!)

Could this story get any more DIS-gusting? Glad you asked. Of course it could. Here’s convicted sex-crimer Hutchens explaining — from prison, we feel compelled to mention again — that he’s sorry ’bout all that because:

I am a Christian myself and I worry that something else may have happened. I would be responsible for it, in my opinion, by not reporting it. The young girl should have been my first priority.

See? Sex-crimer Hutchens feels real bad that he was too busy doing his own sex crimes and being a real good friend to the Duggar family to do his job and stop Josh Duggar from diddling the rest of the Duggar clan. Because he’s a good Christian, just like the Duggars, and that’s what matters.

[In Touch Weekly]

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  • Biff52
    • Sam Hain

      Actually it is worse, the “therapy” creep they sent Josh to; Bill Gothard and his ministry of feel-up the wimmins is also a sex crimer.
      ps) Where’d you get the red type?
      I want it…in green.

    • Steverino247

      Could be raining.

      • Vienna Woods

        Best movie line ever.

    • PubOption

      “They plan to move to New Jersey where adult incest is legal”. Calling Callyson.

  • onedrewthree

    I can’t read anything more about these fucking scumbags.

    • ForCry

      Yes you can!

  • Spotts1701

    Dude, you were already a disgrace to the regiment. Don’t try to claim some sort of moral high ground now, because frankly I wouldn’t believe you if you said water was wet.

  • Has anyone looked into whether or not Josh Duggar is into My Little Pony? Me and the guys at the local beer drinking place (aka “bar”) have a bet going on this. And I betted that he was into MLP big time.

    • I’m sorry to keep talking about the subject, but the fans I met of MLP make me wonder if God is real and/or likes to torment humans for his personal pleasure. I tried watching the show and my eyeballs wouldn’t let me after five minutes or so because of all the weirdness.

      • Zippy

        you must be new around here

        • PubOption

          It seems that he hasn’t met Dok, yet.

          • who is that? Does he know that adult worship of MLP is akin to worshiping Ba’al or one of those other demons that I read about in the bible? If Jesus were here today, would he be a MLP fan? I THINK NOT.

          • ShriekinViolet

            Ummmmmm, yer Jebus isn’t really the standard round these parts.

          • Ok, so what would Moses or Prophet Muhammad think about MLP? I bet they wouldn’t “dig” it either.

            Tell you what, I’m going to set up a webpage to talk about the dark side of this little pony cult that has somehow bred itself into creation in the last few years. When I complete this page with citations and everything, there will be little doubt about who is right about this situation. Just you watch. In fact, I can tell you about the very first time I was prominently exposed to the debauched nature of MLP and its fanbase. It was not very pleasant for me, let me tell you. Very weird and uncomfortable. I will tell you the whole story if you care to know where my revulsion originates from. But I warn you; once you hear my story, you will never look at that show or its fans without giving them the side-eye all day every day.

            Would you care to know more about my experience with this devil-inspired enterprise? I will tell you in a minute, after I finish eating my chicken nuggets.

          • vivian

            RC: I THINK NOT

            Descartes: Therefore you don’t exist. QED

          • Blank Ron

            He’s met Shy, though, I think.

          • Zippy

            looks like dissing the ponies is a hanging offense around these parts- we got a two-fer today with this story

          • Blank Ron

            Sheriff Silverstar’s pretty quick on the draw!

          • Wrong. I deleted those messages. I forgot this place was full of sympthizers of that corruptness. It’s sick, it’s sick, and it’s not the America I grew up in, damn it.

          • Blank Ron

            Well, feel free to go back to your imaginary America. The real world won’t miss you.

        • Villago Delenda Est

          Jeeze, no kidding. Hoof in mouth disease!

        • Biel_ze_Bubba

          Clearly suffering from an irony deficiency.

      • vivian

        why are you still talking?

        • Oh I’m sorry, I didn’t know that a dissenting opinion would concern you so that you would try to oppress another human’s right to speak the truth. Please accept my humble apologies, your highness. I will try to be better in the future.

          “/s”

          Do you really, really want to know what led me to my opinion about MLP?

          Probably not, but I’m gonna tell you anyway in the next post! Then you can sit and judge me as if you were God (which you clearly are trying to do right now). Once you hear this experience you will regret your attempts at being “snarky”. Just warning you.

          • HERE’S THE STORY.

            I used to sometimes hang out with this guy (we’ll call him “Fred”) who liked to drink and smoke weed and watch sports with all his friends. One day I noticed he stopped doing that for a few weeks. So I went over to his house to see what was up and he was…changed. He was smoking some “synthetic marijuana”-like powder called 5F-UR-144 (IIRC, anyway) and claiming it was just like weed…and he offered me some. Being naive, I tried it – and a few seconds after I inhaled the smoke I realized I had just somehow damned myself to the bottom pits of hell. Suddenly I was on the floor writhing around like I was having a heart attack and a seizure at the same time. Worst yet, time slowed to a virtual crawl and it felt like hot rusty needles were being inserted into every single nerve in my body. I tried to call out to God to help me but at the time I couldn’t even remember his name for some reason, and when I tried to think of it the pain intesified even more. Meanwhile, that MLP show was playing on the TV and all the ponies were looking dead at me and laughing out loud. Every single syllable of their laughter made my body rack back and forth even more with sheer agonizing pain. I wanted to call 911 but I couldn’t even conceive of picking up a phone at this point, much less dialing the numbers. Meanwhile, Fred was staring at the TV and I swear to god he was ogling those damn ponies. He could see that I wasn’t having a good time yet all he could do was sit there and say “oh that applejack”. I felt massive pressure in my head and I really thought I was going to have blood spurt out of my eyes and ears, but it only came out of my nose and mouth. And those goddamn ponies wouldn’t stop talking and laughing during the whole goddamn time. I then realized that the show was a tool for brainwashing of the most unnatural kind. And I knew they were looking at me and laughing at my potential demise. Since that time I have stopped smoking fake weed and now only drink approved liquors like vodka. And I knew I was right about the corrupt nature of MLP, because soon after Fred decided that he was a woman and didn’t like to watch MMA matches anymore. I have not met a grown man that watches MLP who doesn’t have skeletons in their closet. NONE.

            And that is why I am against MLP.

          • Blank Ron

            I think it’s so cute> the way you think you’re impressing anyone but yourself.

          • Sorry I can’t be as “cool” as you, brony bro. Maybe you could teach me how you do it, starting with “cosplay” all the way to how to successfully hide in the forest from the cops when the farmer catches you being ‘fresh’ with his mares in the barn.

          • vivian

            This is not the place for generic insults, my boy. If it’s not useful, interesting, informative or entertaining, why say it? I repeat:”Why are you still talking?”

          • Blank Ron

            Oh, heavens to Betsy, I am being accused of consorting with farm animals! Whatever shall I do? Quickly, my smelling salts and fainting couch! I shall never be able to show my face at the cotillion again!

            Tell me, Sparky, how does it feel to be mocked unmercifully without your Greek chorus backing you up?

          • vivian

            I don’t mean to dis Cypher, but Wit takes little time and no trouble for most of the folks around here.

          • That’s nice to hear. So what’s your excuse, in that case?

          • vivian

            I’ve been told it isn’t kind to mock the afflicted.

          • Yet here you are anyway, flailing away. It’s a shame whoever told you that didn’t tell you about respecting your betters as well.

          • vivian

            I would respect a toad, but I’d be misled to try to teach it reason.

    • Blank Ron

      Dr Mr Troll:
      On behalf of the thousands of fine, normal people who are fans of the show, as well as the many people here who are also fans, I’d just like to say thank you for implying that we’re all pedophiles. Then again, I’ve perused your commenting history and it looks to this unashamed brony like you have a history of not understanding anything that isn’t spoon-fed to you by Faux Noise. Nice try, but you’re not even worth a C-list insult.
      The whistling noise you’re hearing, BTW, isn’t the wind blowing through your head (as usual) but the Banhammer of Loving Correction. Do hold still for it. Less messy that way.

      • So did I win the bet or not? I got my last $20 for this month riding on it, and I’ll be damned if some “unashamed” brony is going to mess with my potential beer money.

        PS I’m not judging you because of your personally chosen lifestyle…I’m just asking that you don’t corrupt my children with it. That’s all.

        • and PS if you REALLY read my disqus history you would’ve realized that I’m the most liberal of liberals around here. But that MLP thing is one thing I will never be able to understand as a functioning human being with testosterone-pumping testicles. I had to stop watching “Star Trek: The Next Generation” after I found out that the man who played “Q” was down for that nonsense. The whole concept disturbs me deeply. Why can’t you “bronies” enjoy real entertainment, like football or boxing? What is stopping you from enjoying these events that were meant to satisfy you, if not inspire you to greater deeds? Serious question.

    • Dee Andee

      Josh Duggar was never allowed to watch TeeVee.

  • ManchuCandidate

    None of this is going to shake my belief that firing Josh, Jim Bob, Michelle, the Quiverfill freaks they support and the pedo cop from a cannon into the sun is a good thing for humanity.

    • Zippy

      I’ll buy the gunpowder

      • Me not sure

        With votes?

        • HogeyeGrex

          Well, that seems to be what usually buys large amounts of gunpowder.

          Though sometimes it’s the other way around.

      • Wee Mousie

        Make sure you buy enough gunpowder, otherwise that nasty tribe will land all over the earth, and you’ll have put back conservationist efforts more in minutes than Republicans have this during this, and the previous, century.

  • tihond

    When you disappoint even a kiddie porn cop…

    • Duckler

      I just laughed way more than I should have.

  • MrBlobfish

    Is there a Wal-Mart connection? Aren’t the Walton’s in Arkansas?

    • ★ keri ★

      well, Josh’s brother-in-law is an accountant for Wal-Mart, but that’s probably not what you mean.

    • VirginiaLady

      They funnel in through the secret underground tunnels!

  • Sam Hain

    YOU.
    CAN.
    NOT.
    MAKE.
    THIS.
    SHIT.
    UP!

  • JustPixelz

    Their next show will be “Sister Wives”.

    • pstockholm

      One Down and Counting

  • JoeChristmas

    The only thing that can stop a bad pedophile is a good pedophile.

    • Blank Ron

      I don’t want to know what either pedophile is carrying.

      • And I don’t want to know what categorizes someone as either a bad or good pedophile.

        Cleans off their own clown shoes = Good Pedophile?

        Makes little sister read her own bedtime story = Bad Pedophile?

        • bobbert

          Something something hand up the butt of Pedobear something, oh fuck who cares?

    • Wee Mousie

      Or a sweet little kindergartner carrying a Glock.

  • Jen_Baker_VA

    Why is the pedo-cop the only one in this entire fucked up story who admits that his first fuckin’ responsibility should have been to the GIRL????!!1??1

    • Steverino247

      Because he wanted to be first? Just a guess.

      • Zippy

        Because unlike everyone else in this story, he has a reason to- some day he may have to explain himself to a parole board

    • r€nato

      perhaps because he’s the only one in prison right now, and so he’s not risking anything by being truthful (or at least truthy) about it?

      • Blank Ron

        I would say you’re right on the money. Nothing to lose, plus you never know, it looks pretty good at your parole hearing.

    • onedollarjuana

      If he keeps up that kinda talk he’ll get kicked outa his church. Everyone knows that wimmen folk are for the pleasure of the menfolk.

      • Rabbit_Rebozo

        And sammiches. Don’t forget sammiches.

    • Biel_ze_Bubba

      Because he’s the most decent guy in this whole cast of characters?

      • bobbert

        Mmm, assumes facts not in evidence. We know fuck all about this guy.

        • Zippy

          He’s not better, he just has more to lose since he’s on parole

    • Rabbit_Rebozo

      My patented Iron-O-Meter blew a gasket over this story a few days ago, and after this post it’s just hanged itself.

      • Wee Mousie

        I believe the Irony Bureau has had to switch over to abacuses (abicusi?) and the wires that the beads move upon are heating up so much that global warming activists have brought a motion before the courts to shut them down.

  • Adrian

    Can I send the girls some pepper spray?

    • Rabbit_Rebozo

      Maybe we could start a GoFundMe to raise money for them to hire lawyers to emancipate themselves from Ma and Pa Creepy since obviously the state of Arkansas hasn’t and ain’t ever gonna do anything to liberate them from that hellhole of a family.

      • Wee Mousie

        Just equip every female Duggar, except Mama Grizzly, with a Taser and instructions how to use it.

  • OooShiny

    Pedo-pot calls incest-kettle a liar.

    Film of nuclear irony asploding the world at 11:00.

  • Ergoetal

    “…and that’s what matters…”

    Yeah, but it also might matter when it comes to the statute of limitations, since only the one crime was reported, according to Hutchens. Wonder if anyone would mind looking into this small detail?

  • Lefty Frizzell

    So the big takeaway from Carrie was that Margaret was a good role model for mothers.

    • Wee Mousie

      And here I thought the big takeaway was don’t piss off a telekinetic.

      • bobbert

        Hold that thought.

    • H0mer0

      they won’t be laughing at her anymore.

      (a friend of mine hid under his sister’s bed until the scene with Amy Irving putting flowers on “Carrie’s” grave then grabbed his sister’s wrist at the fun part)

  • Sharkey

    Welcome to Wonkette!

    We’re changing our name to Duggarette to more accurately reflect the nature of our content.

    We’re sorry for any inconvenience or confusion this may cause.

    • Redgyal

      Well sometimes you just can’t help but stare at a train wreck.

    • Enfant Terrible

      Alternate title: Arkansas Has Its Secrets.

    • malsperanza

      When the story stops adding new sordid and extreme facets, we’ll go back to speculating about the GOP presidential candidates. Don’t worry, no rush: they’re not going anywhere.

    • Wee Mousie

      Not to mention revulsion, self-loathing, and suicidal thoughts.

  • JD

    Your view on sex crimes is as enlightened as the Duggars’ on women’s rights. Way to rely on the very type of broad over-generalizations you skewer people for on this site routinely. First, viewing child porn does not make a person a pedophile. The actual research/facts behind your assumptions show that there are very different types of pathology at play in child porn, pedophilia, and other related crimes. Child porn is not a gateway to child molestation for most offenders, nor is it even necessarily even related for the individuals involved. Some are just addicted to internet porn, others like the images but have no impulse to act on them. Regardless, you don’t seem to understand the words you are using in this piece. Maybe you should, ya know, research some stuff before you, ya know, write about it.

    Also, this isn’t even funny. Heaping scorn on people who are already universally execrated (pedophiles and people who get arrested for child porn crimes) is beyond shooting fish in a barrel. It’s just stupid. And when you aim that low AND you have no idea what you’re talking about, it’s doubly lame. “Eeeew child sex crimes creep us out” is a really prog view of this issue. Congratulations. And maybe change the clickbait at the bottom of your page for something less completely based on the lowest common denominator before your moralize. That’d be neat. Thx.

    • Blank Ron

      Well, I feel sufficiently chastised. Oh, wait, no, I don’t. Sorry, carry on.

    • sillyclucker

      How about we just agree then that anyone who enjoys viewing child porn is EWWW, GROSS !!! and breaking the law.

    • Villago Delenda Est

      I’m sorry here, hoss, but there is obviously a pattern here, a pattern of lies to protect “the family” that would make the Corelones blush.

    • Vecciojohn

      Sorry, could you repeat that so I can ignore you again?

    • Spotts1701

      When said people are supposed to be upholding the law or spend their free time preaching about how gays are just waiting to diddle your kids while covering up their own crimes, they deserve to be dragged out into the spotlight and publicly shamed until they find the nearest rock to crawl under, your concern trolling be damned.
      So here’s a hearty GTFO – take it, fold it sideways and shove it right back up where you keep that stick.

    • Adrian

      Just apologize for your comment and we can move on.

    • MrBlobfish

      Spoken like a true child molester.

    • Sheepshagger

      Stop demonising the paedophiles! Jeez. They’re just hobbyists.

      You wanna rethink that one hoss?

      • Dee Andee

        Hobby lobbyists.

    • r€nato

      concern troll is concerned.

    • Vienna Woods

      So… the guy who just looks at kiddy porn is ok, even thought for there to BE kiddy porn for him to watch, some poor children were brutalized? But hey, he didn’t actually DO that, so him getting his rocks off watching it is AOK.
      Glad we could clear that up. KThnxBye.

    • Relativicus

      I think I can speak for everyone wearing my pants that I do not care to know of, or consider, the distinctions between those who enjoy kiddie porn and pedophiles. And you really need to reconsider your impulse, of which I pray it is your sole impulse in such matters, to try to draw such distinctions outside of your own noggin.

    • elpinche
    • HogeyeGrex

      Not gonna ask what’s on your hard drive, but seriously, defending kiddie porn as if it’s some sort of victimless crime? Really? You may want to rethink that.

      There might actually be a good reason such people are “universally execrated” but if you want to jump into bed with them, so to speak, you go right ahead. I’ll just sit here and think of you as “that kiddiefiddler what hasn’t got caught yet.”

    • Zippy

      viewing child porn does not make a person a pedophile

      true- they are two separate types of sexual dysfunction

      The actual research/facts behind your assumptions show that there are
      very different types of pathology at play in child porn, pedophilia, and
      other related crimes

      Somewhat true, though you’re already trying to inject your personal opinions as fact with the loaded qualifier “very”

      Child porn is not a gateway to child molestation for most offenders,
      nor is it even necessarily even related for the individuals involved

      Nonsense- there are many, many studies that show significant relationship between child porn and contact offenses, such as molestation. The science is still in its infancy as to what that relationship is and to what extent there are cause and effect issues between the different classes of sexual dysfunction, but the Venn diagram of CPO’s (child porn offenders) SO’s (sexual offenders) and pedophiles has a quite significant overlap.To just handwave away any connection is utter bullshit.

      There are indeed valid reasons to revisit some of the draconian sentences given to passive child porn consumers (particularly one time offenders), as they are not in fact interchangeable with SO’s and pedophiles, as you pointed out. Nor are they the same type of offense as those who actively create that child porn. But this also ignores the fact that it their consumption which creates the demand which fuels the child porn industry.

      tl:dr

      Quit whitewashing child porn consumers with tacky pedantry- yes one is not necessarily the other, but they’re all messed up in some fashion or another

      And quit erecting that straw man that teh wonket gets its kicks bashing pedophiles- we snark on hypocrites here, some of them happen to be kiddie diddlers. Millions of convicted pedophiles are doing time and getting the intensive counseling they need to hopefully some day be able to reenter society as a relatively healthy person. No one is attacking them. It’s the holier-than-thou hypocrites that earn our ire…

      • JD

        It’s really not an opinion. Research backs it up to the point where noted bleeding hearts like federal judges have started to recognize that child porn defendants are in a very different category than people who act on sexual impulses. They commit fewer future crimes, seldom “escalate” the conduct, and the pathologies are most often not related at all. I’ve seen expert testimony on it a bunch of times. Regardless, the point isn’t exonerating child porn, that’s still a crime for a reason, it’s just avoiding demonization and painting with a sloppy broad brush, which annoys me regardless of the subject.

        • Blank Ron

          JD blathered:

          Research backs it up to the point where noted bleeding hearts like federal judges have started to recognize that child porn defendants are in a very different category than people who act on sexual impulses.

          [citation needed] Baldfaced assertions, especially ones containing one or more RW dog whistles, are proof of nothing except desperation to win an argument at all costs.

          • Spotts1701
          • nightmoth

            That was FUN! I’ve never gotten here in time before to play with a troll!

          • I missed it too, but the name “JD” and the comments about being pedantic is…familiar to me. What was his full username, out of curiosity?

          • nightmoth

            He only called himself JD. And he was pedantic about the BIG difference between child molesters and child porn consumers.
            It was irritating—and funny after everyone tackled him.

          • Aah, I had a falling out with an acquaintance whose online ID was “JD Hammond.” It was a long shot, but getting pedantic over bizarre, random issues with friends and strangers was totally his MO.

          • Zippy

            There is some movement in this country to revisit sentencing guidelines for first time CP offenders, the rationale being that they likely aren’t going to commit the crime again and that they are not in fact likely to be pedophiles. But repeat offenders are another story. And the idea that just because most one time CP consumers are probably not potential pedophiles, that doesn’t mean that most pedophiles aren’t also CP consumers. And those who consume CP habitually are more likely to escalate their behavior. JD was picking some really tiny little nits to make a stupid point.

            Sadly his rants can be summed up as #notallchildpornviewers and are offensive for that very reason (or else he really is pedantic to the point of Asperger’s)

          • Blank Ron

            I can’t say for sure – this isn’t an issue I feel comfortable even thinking about, as a rule – but if memory serves it’s somewhat different Up Here. The thinking seems to be that merely possessing the stuff makes you complicit in the original crime, and you are punished accordingly.
            Is that hard-nosed? Maybe. But for the life of me I can’t work up any outrage over potentially disproportionate punishment for these crimes. Might have something to do with having two daughters, you know? Some of my buttons are REALLY easy to push.

          • Zippy

            The whole supply and demand issue is indeed the counter argument to leniency for first time offenders- people wouldn’t be abusing children to make that CP if there wasn’t an audience for it. There’s also the issue that not all CP is alike- technically, millions of people who followed the Gawker links to see J Law’s nekkid pix fron 4ch could be accused of viewing child porn (though there would never be enough to base charges, obv). I wouldn’t paint them in the same category as hardcore CP addicts the same way I wouldn’t paint some kid caught smoking a joint as being the same as some habitual junkie who’s in and out of jail every other week. But overall I’m with you, while I can see why some discretion for some idjit who got drunk and followed his browser to the dark side once vs. some hardcore CP addict makes sense, the welfare of anyone caught with that shit is waaaaaay down on my empathy to-do list.

            The important thing here though is none of that has fuckall to do with this story. Josh wasn’t some good kid who screwed up once- he’s a serial molester with multiple victims spanning a couple years at the least. And officer kiddie porn wasn’t some fool with a couple of disgusting pictures on his HDD, he was a hardcore habitual CP collector who spent years amassing pix. He started right back up again after being released from prison and was trolling Yahoo chat rooms and aggressively seeking out that filth. Fuck Josh, fuck officer kiddie porn and fuck JD for trying to make excuses for those two.

          • Blank Ron

            Well-put, Z. And this points out one of the flaws in our one-size-fits-all justice system – we DO, too often, equate the honour student with the blunt with the crackhead stealing car stereos for his next fix.

            JD’s tactic smells an awful lot like SOP for the RW hypocrites caught with their hands down the wrong person’s pants: move the argument, establish a ‘not as bad as’ base camp and then quash every other topic. And not ONCE does it occur to them that just because ‘The lady doth protest too much, methinks’ is a bit of a cliche, that it’s a cliche because it’s so often true.

        • Enfant Terrible

          There’s that word “very” again. One of the “leeches that infest the pond of prose, sucking the blood of words”, as Strunk and White once wrote. Also too, just shut up already.

          • Zippy

            Lots and lots of qualifiers

        • Zippy

          It’s really not an opinion

          Umm, yes it is. As I stated, the research is still in the data collection phase, but there are studies showing connections.
          http://www.olemiss.edu/depts/ncjrl/pdf/I%20C%20A%20C/2012%20-%20October%2015-16/A%20-%20Child%20Pornography%20Offenses%20Are%20a%20Valid%20Diagnostic%20Indicator%20of%20Pedophilia.PDF

          http://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/news/congressional-testimony-and-reports/sex-offense-topics/201212-federal-child-pornography-offenses/Chapter_04.pdf

          I also noted that sentencing is being revisited for passive CP viewers, but that is a separate issue. And you still stubbornly cling to your correlation/causation fallacy. Nobody but you has said that viewing child porn will turn a person into a pedophile. Had you stopped there you wouldn’t be getting the blowback. But you went on to claim that there’s no relationship and that is simply untrue- demonstrably so. One simply needs to note the prevalence of child porn present on the computers of those caught molesting to prove that. As I also said, the relationship is complex and not a basic cause/effect relationship- that’s your old pal the straw man making another appearance. But to downplay or outright deny a relationship between CP and pedophiles is still bullshit.

          Why you insist on expending so much effort over such a pedantic point is actually quite strange. Yes, CPO ≠ Pedophile, they are two distinct classes of psycho sexual disorders. But the is in fact significant overlap, whatever the exact nature of that relationship may be. It’s also raises many people’s suspicions when someone goes to such length to defend child porn consumers- it’s rather creepy and concern over “painting with a sloppy broad brush” seems a mighty weak explanation.

    • Lefty Frizzell

      I see you’re getting some blowback on this one!

      I think the point here is that it’s not merely one sad child abuser. It’s one sad child abuser enabled and protected by church, police, judges and politicians, and mostly by his family, who have simultaneously been making fortunes as self-righteous, pious, moral scolds, heaping the same accusations on the LGBT community that could have quite rightly been aimed at themselves.

      • Enfant Terrible

        Let’s not forget a certain cable channel that implicitly enabled all this awfulness, either by failing to do due diligence or by hoping no one would ever find out the outcome of their due diligence. They’re in for a bit of execratin’ too.

        • JAWs

          Yep, and the feces-throwong chimps thst run TLC is proving that they learned their lesson and want to change their wicked ways by offering the Duggars MORE spin-offs. Apparently one has to commit necrophilia before your too awful to keep on the airwaves.

    • Enfant Terrible

      One thing that you have failed to address (or are ignoring) is that this awfulness was perpetrated within a family that makes a very public display of their brand of Christianity that features zero tolerance of what they regard as “sexual sins” – homosexuality, non-marital sex, etc, etc. You speak of doing some research. Did you know that Jim Bob ran for Senate on a platform that included defining rape and incest as capital crimes? Did you know that Michelle recorded a pre-election robocall that smeared LGBT people as likely pedophiles? And that they did these things while knowing that their oldest son repeatedly molested young girls around him, including four of his sisters? I await your insights on the layers of layers of social, family and psychological pathologies at work here. No I don’t. Just pour yourself of 20-ounce cup of STFU.

    • nightmoth

      So–sexually abusing children to film child porn—criminal.
      Viewing resultant child porn—harmless addiction.
      Ya’ might wanna think that one through a little bit more before you, ya’ know, defend it.

    • Celtic_Gnome

      Execrated. Check out the big brain on JD!

    • ShriekinViolet

      Something something doth protest too much….

  • Relativicus

    “The young girl should have been my first priority.”

    Welcome one and all to Pervert Double-Entendre Theatre!

    • malsperanza

      You’re jumping to conclusions. He may have been a connoisseur of little boys.

  • Relativicus

    “Everyone knows you get one freebie when it comes to molesting kids.”

    Incest and pedophilia are the “lesbian-fling in college” of disgusting crimes.

    • calliecallie

      Wait, you don’t get more than one lesbian fling in college? Asking for a friend.

      • Villago Delenda Est

        You’re allowed more than one, as long as I (and some other male commenters) are allowed to watch.

      • Vecciojohn

        I once tried to gave a fling with a lesbian in college, and she acted all “go away, straight creep.” Women!

      • One is “experimentation” which means you went “ICK!!!” and then went on to heterosexing only after marriage, popping out little ones, and making sammiches. More than that, well…. um… got pictures?

        • Celtic_Gnome

          Where do LUGs (Lesbian Until Graduation) fit in there?

          • Jay B.

            Smith

  • Hammiepants

    Dear Every Duggar and Duggar Apologist: Please STFU now, you are gross and revolting. Signed, Humanity

  • docterry6973

    These people have lost the thread on the teachings of Jeebus.

    • Blank Ron

      Assuming they had clue one about where that thread was in the first place.

      • Wee Mousie

        They make it up out of whole cloth.

    • FauxAntocles

      They suck up the OT and figure it’s all the same.

  • Kat Anyperson

    I’m not sure how a report to a convicted pedophile, who ignored the report and didn’t follow correct police procedure to begin with, can count as credible police contact for the purposes of establishing abuse. One would hope that police contact would be considered null and void. Hope.

    Fuck Arkansas.

    • Zippy

      he wasn’t convicted (the first time) until 2007

  • calliecallie

    Sex crimer Hutchins is just trying to look good for his next parole hearing.

  • sillyclucker

    Another ringing endorsement for Christianity!

  • Zippy

    You missed a big part of the story- ‘ol Officer Kiddie porn is doing hard time because he violated parole for a previous child porn conviction. In fact, it was determined that he never quit. Turns out that sexual deviants don’t spontaneously cure themselves with a wave of the Jebus magic wand after all. And you can’t just go and sweat out your sin, like a hangover. Of all the people involved, Officer Too friendly should have known just how hard it is to resist the compulsion of sexual deviancy, yet he let Josh walk with a warning. Everyone involved in this story are proving themselves to be the most disgusting people on earth. God must be really proud of the lot of them…

    • r€nato

      he just didn’t pray hard enough!

    • Me not sure

      Hate to blow my cover, but no I’m not.

    • Celtic_Gnome

      The cop, being a good Christian, was just following Jesus’s dictate to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I bet he would have been thrilled to get a stern lecture and nothing more the first time he got caught.

      • Zippy

        looking at the timeline, it doesn’t appear that he had yet been caught- which is a big reason why he was still a cop at that point

        • malsperanza

          And a big reason why he didn’t need to do anything more policey. Perves tend to protect each other, natch.

      • tinywriting

        Alright, Jesus. We caught you overturning the tables in the Temple. You need a stern talking to! That was BAD, BAD!

        Now go and sin no more.

    • vivian

      I think the Jeebus magic wand might be the source of much of this trouble

      • tinywriting

        ‘Jeebus magic wand’

        Now you’re stealing Josh’s jokes?

    • Wee Mousie

      Hey, don’t blame God for this mess. He gave them all free will, and then went fishing.

  • I wonder if I could get a side order of pearl clutching about how my people are gonna fuck up all the families. With extra irony sauce.

    • Me not sure

      To paraphrase, irony is a sauce best served cold.

  • calliecallie

    Needs moar gun violence to distract us. A shooting at the WalMart in Grand Forks, ND.
    http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/26/us/north-dakota-walmart-shooting/
    Enough of this Duggary.

  • maman

    Maybe he is trying to build up some street cred with the boys in the prison yard.

  • Me not sure

    The ancient Greeks couldn’t have written this any better. To them all tragedy flowed from familial relationships. These guys would have been right at home in a Greek tragedy if it weren’t for the strict conventions about how many characters could be on stage at one time. Oh well, I guess the kids could be in the chorus.

    • Well, pluck out the main players and you still have plenty left for a Greek Chorus.

      ♫You’re touching the sister, you’re touching the baby sister! Oh what could go wrong what could go wrong?♫”

  • Sheepshagger

    Someone think of the children!

    “I am “. Josh Duggar.

  • jmk

    At this point, all I have left is dry heaves.

    • bozilingus

      Go to the next article; also, too, think of kittens.

      • Wee Mousie

        What!?!? Drag a poor defenceless kitten into this Duggar crap?

        • H0mer0

          sooo, sooo cuuuuuute!

      • jmk

        You were right… those did help…enormously!

  • Poly_Ester

    Would this be approved dress for the young Duggar females or are the colors still too provocative?

    • Relativicus

      I have to admit they both look pretty hot.

      • janecita

        And not in a good way!

    • Blank Ron

      Blue? Why do you hate Allah?

    • sw19womble

      What a slut, showing off her big toe like that! :-o

      • Tony Alexander

        looks to me like they’re both ‘askin’ fer it’

        if you get my meaning!

  • cmb

    I, for one believe, the convicted child pornographer. Had he known about Josh’s year-long Duggary rampage there would have been footage in his stash when he got busted.

    • Blank Ron

      Are we sure there wasn’t?

    • beatbort

      And he would have demanded sloppy seconds…

  • Randy Riddle

    So … which one will be Huckabee’s running mate for VP – Touchy Feely Duggar or Have Some Candy, Little Girl, Cop?

  • Me not sure

    This picture of a young Jack Black from the film “Bob Roberts” reminds me of someone. I just can’t put my finger on it.

    • beatbort

      George Zimmerman?

  • janecita

    Is this what fundies believe Jesus meant when he said, “Let the little children come to me”? I’m sure that he didn’t mean, “So I can molest them”. But, what do I know? I’m a filthy atheist!

  • Shalimar

    If Hutchens is telling the truth, then the 2006 “couldn’t charge Josh because the statute of limitations had run because they reported it to law enforcement in 2003” investigation result would have been a lie. Josh molested 5 girls an unknown number of times each, so there would be a statute of limitations for each specific rape. If Hutchens really was only told of one incident with one girl, it shouldn’t have started the statute running on any of the other possible charges.

    • Biel_ze_Bubba

      But didn’t the infamous “redacted” obtained-before-it-was-destroyed policer report disclose mulitple incidents? Where did that information come from, if not from Officer Kidporn?

  • Celtic_Gnome

    Finally, we can make a positive comment about this whole Duggar mess. In all the pics taken of Josh Duggar and basically every Republican currently running for President, not one of them featured a bed in the background.

    • Santana999

      And in other news, Ted Cruz has ordered NASA to name it’s latest spacecraft in honor of Josh Duggar. It’s mission…to probe Uranus…

      Too soon?

      • Guest

        Not at all! How about this one: know what movie was playing on Malaysia flight 370? ‘Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea.’ Too late?

      • tinywriting

        Not Uranus, silly! It’s Urectum.

        Thanks folks, I’ll be here all week!

  • VandeGraf

    Okay, so with the anti-abortion and anti-birth control philosophy in play, was Josh shooting blanks, or did he simply miss? Or was it merely lewd and lascivious fondling and groping and feeling up?

  • Joseph

    Josh is a creep. He will always be acreep. but within the Duggar family all kinds of anomalies will surface in coming years. the underpinings of this deranged cult have been challenged and we find tht the guru of thier philosophy was a multiple offender child diddler. I hope they saved their money but I would not be surprised of they were not in financial straights in a couple of years.

    And remember, the children of any one who even said good morning tot he Duggars wil want a oi3ece of whatever action they can claim – Little jimmy is snorting his foot powder andit tis becaeu of ther malign influence of the Duggers. Hell, I’m think about filieng cicil suit because theryhave beensucha pain int he ass …

  • jviscont1

    this story is so bad I’m surprised some cable TV channel doesn’t have a mini series in the works.

    • tinywriting

      Oh, wait!

    • dshwa

      And that’s why TLC hasn’t canceled them, because they want to keep the rights to the story…

  • JohnR

    Torture, we’re being Duggar Boarded. Those poor kids, send in Seal Team 6 and get them out of there.

  • OrdinaryJoe

    In the end, this is all on Big Daddy Jim Bob and Mama Duggar, Michelle. Jeebuz or no Jeebuz, they failed to protect their daughters. It’s my understanding there are still children in the household and I do not for the life me understand how Arkansas authorities allow that to be.

    • Tony Alexander

      um…because arkansas?

      • JAWs

        Because only “welfare queens” are a danger to their children. Duh! Doesn’t Republican dogma teach you anything, nowadays?

  • SuspectedDemocrat

    I dunno, maybe if they prayed more?

    • ibwilliamsi

      I think they preyed more.

  • Drew Miner

    Watching the moral arc of this 19 kids parable, I’m betting the next chapter is that some of thowse kids have BOTH a BROTHER and a DAD in Josh?

  • SuspectedDemocrat

    And after all the gross, horrible, nauseating details, I still can’t get over the three year statute of limitations for child molestation because what the everlasting fuck.

    • Wee Mousie

      Back around the 1920’s, the Gilbreth family demonstrated that kids are “Cheaper by the Dozen,” and 90 years later, the Dugger family confirms that kids are grosser by the gross.

  • Peripatetic Poltroon

    I wonder what percentage of adolescent boys do the fondle with a nearby younger child. I’ll wager it’s a lot higher than most people realize.

    • Guest

      Doesn’t make it right!

  • TheBidenator

    You know what they say- the family that preys together, stays together…

    • alwayspunkindrublic

      And if they don’t, a preyer circle will get them back on track.

      • ohpaleasegivemeabreak

        It is such a shame that Our Wonkette does not allow comments.

        • alwayspunkindrublic

          ‘Tis.

  • alwayspunkindrublic

    Someday, a lost chapter from the “Inferno” will be found, where Dante describes a 10th level of hell reserved solely for these kinds of inbred clans of sick fucks.

  • Blender_415

    Never would have guessed that “WWJD?” actually meant “Who Would Josh Diddle?”

    • Duckler

      No fair. So may “J”s…

  • Me not sure

    This is classic cult behavior. The insular nature of relationships within the cult and the “them against us mentality” can result in the ability to rationalize almost any behavior as being the” true path” as opposed to the way of the sinful world beyond the walls of the cult.

    • Ryan Denniston

      I bet the Jonestown facilities can be snapped up for cheap these days.

    • Jerry Noneofyourbizz

      Can you imagine how much incest is going on inside the Westboro Baptist Church?

      • Me not sure

        I’m guessing more than one of the virtuous sisters has had her vaginal walls redecorated.

  • Guest

    Within this Huckabee humping, bible thumping family of 19 kids, odds (and statistics!) are that at least one of these Duggar offspring will be gay/lesbian. Right now, I’d bet that boy or girl knows it and is living a terrifying nightmare about being found out.

    • Jenny

      Maternal immune hypothesis in a living human species. Maybe the Duggars will be good for something after all.

    • H0mer0

      that cute blonde Duggie with the purple shirt and bowtie shows promise, hopefully in a transcendent kind of way

  • harryeagar

    Are there any bad Christians?

    • ohpaleasegivemeabreak

      Are there any good Christians?

      fify

      • Enfant Terrible

        Dietrich Bonhoffer.

      • Lizzietish81

        Desmond Tutu libel!

      • Hiptobesquare

        Jimmy Carter.

  • jw

    TLC has pulled this crapfest from the schedule, but still has not cancelled it. Reportedly, they are now considering a new show with some of the girls.

    Please let TLC know what you think of them having a child molester and his enabling parents as their “stars”. If I never see a Duggar on TV again (except maybe in a mugshot), it will be too soon.

    Here’s the corporate info for Discovery Communications –

    DCI World HeadquartersOne
    Discovery Place
    Silver Spring, MD 20910

    Tel: 240.662.2000

    Key people Robert Miron (Chairman)
    David M. Zaslav (President and CEO) – david_zaslav@discovery.com

    and this is their viewer relations form which can be filed out online
    http://corporate.discovery.com

    Discovery Communications have an “ethics hotline”.

    http://corporate.discovery.com

    NO MORE DUGGARS!

    • larry longmore

      TLC already has another family lined up from what I hear. Some other family with 19 kids that actually appeared on the Duggar’s show. This clown car vag belongs to the Bates family & word is their show will be called “The United Bates of America”. The family that screws together stays united I guess.

  • HobbesEvilTwin

    fuck the fucking fuck out of this fucking fuckers for fuck’s sake.

  • MongoJustPawn

    “Fix this fucked up family for good!” With votes. Or saltpeter.

  • kfreed

    “WHAT EVEN THE EFF is in the water in Arkansas?” <<< Why do you persist with this?

    How many times do I need to say it? It's NOT JUST ARKANSAS: http://observer.com/2014/12/the-duggars-politics/

    Right Wing Watch/PFAW.org: "Barton’s Bunk: Religious Right ‘Historian’ Hits the Big Time in Tea Party America"
    http://www.pfaw.org/rww-in-focus/barton-s-bunk-religious-right-historian-hits-the-big-time-tea-party-america

    David Barton (VIDEO): "Biblical Law Is Best for Women"
    http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/barton-suggests-biblical-law-best-women

    Al Jazeera: "Libertarians get medieval on women – Debates on birth control in the US show how modern conservatism is just a neoliberal gloss on medieval domination."
    http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/04/201244104251611609.html

    How much of this do you need before you get it? The Tea Party IS the Religious Right: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/apr/12/christian-fundamentalism-ron-paul-homeschooling

    Barton Suggests Biblical Law Is Best For Women

  • Steve Anderson

    I’m beginning to think Jim Duggar has dirt on TLC’s top brass.

  • starfanglednut

    Boy, the deleted comments are going to be off the hook this week.

    • cmb

      Even the Freepers aren’t supporting this vileness.

      http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3293536/pos

      I feel bad for the girls, but can we honestly just let this go? No. The parents allowed them to be molested, covered if up, and then “Jim Bob” said that people who participate in such behavior should be put to death. All that aside, this guy should *never* be around children. It’s like giving a bottle of vodka to an alcoholic. God may’ve forgiven him, but that does not mean he will not struggle with these urges and victimize more kids.
      6 posted on 05/27/2015 9:52:49 AM PDT by Politicalkiddo

      It wouldn’t be happening had the parents notifies the proper authorities at the time, and then not have sold their lives to TV.
      9 posted on 05/27/2015 10:10:00 AM PDT by goodwithagun

      http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3293972/posts?page=3

      This whole thing stinks. He is not charged. He’s sent to so called “treatment”. His sisters and not sent to counseling not taken to the hospital after parents learned of incest. Police report quietly hushed up. He got away with this. All his parents wanted was money from TLC and that stupid show. Did not care about his sisters just make this all “go away”. You will never convince me otherwise.

      I just can’t wait till those Duggar girls grow up and write the “tell all” book like the Jessup girls did from the FLDS Cult.
      24 posted on 05/26/2015 8:09:33 PM PDT by Morgana

      • Lizzietish81

        I said this on Kali’s rant article, but my sister was trolling Huckabee’s FB page and said that many of his own people were calling him out for supporting these fuckers and leaving his fanclub.

  • Wee Mousie

    It appears that this case has more wrinkles than Michelle Duggar’s backside.

    • H0mer0

      as much fun as it may seem to make fun of the aging sagging flesh of “maturity”…instead of being a scold this time, I will tell you a pointless story: I was curious about what this “cold liposuction” was about since I was considering getting some of the “freckles” (on my face!)being lightened. When I showed the consultant my prune belly (proud bearer of twin 15 year old boys), she said that I would be an excellent candidate for a tummy tuck. The pain and downtime aside, I thought why would a 50-year-old woman want a tummy tuck if I don’t need to be seen in a swimsuit by more than a few people?

      • Wee Mousie

        My original image was going with “my backside” but then I realized anyone as anally moralizing about the dangers of gay child molesters would bound to create “clench” wrinkles there, just like a happy-go-lucky personality creates “smile” wrinkles.

        Also, too, why would you want to do anything to remove freckles? My wife had freckles all over, and one holiday weekend in a spurt of creative energy I decide to play connect the dots to see what picture they would make. You will never guess what was revealed. Neither my wife not I could,either.

        Being a dude, I know nothing about stretch marks from child birth, or how women regard them. I do. however, have an incision on my belly from an operation which saved my life when I was eleven. None-the-less, I would be happy to see it wiped away..

        • H0mer0

          speaking of buttock clenching:
          https://youtu.be/hgq2LqX8PtQ

          (I loved this trailer back when I first saw it in the theatre in the 1980s.
          Doesn’t he look like Scott Brown?)

    • GarColga

      Ew! Thanks for that image!

  • Silence Is Golden

    As a Christian, that’s what weighs on his conscience? Oh yeah, duh, he must have already been forgiven.

  • JParkerSD46

    How ’bout we all form a big line if front of Casa de Duggar, and each, in turn, gets to walk in and a) kick Jim Bob in the nuts, then b) kick Josh in the nuts? We could charge $5 a head (or a foot?) and use the proceeds to pay for real counseling for the girls. Or a ticket to anywhere safe.

    • H0mer0

      much that I don’t want to bring anymore “victim-hood” to these self

  • sillyclucker

    I see JD got the Banhammer. Was that Josh Duggar?

    • Enfant Terrible

      He used the word “execrate”. Too many syllables for Josh.

      • sillyclucker

        Considering the minimal education Josh got, I believe you’re right.

        • NorthStarSpanx

          Speaking of minimal education, I know it is a low bar in Christian Right Wing circles…for when someone told Sarah Palin that being Governor was like being the CEO of a State, she took off with it all pleased and referred to herself by it many many times…but how does a home schooled, unworldly, fundy fishbowl molester become an Executive Director of a national lobbying arm? What were his memos and letters like? Did it only involve getting selfies with Presidential neocon candidates?

          • GarColga

            Josh was the beneficiary of a huge “conservative welfare” program. He’ll be working for FOX News or some conservative “think tank” pretty soon.

  • What a delightful Christian family.

  • LADY MABELINE

    This entire story is just nauseating. This needs even greater media attention. The fact that TLC has not made a final decision to permanently cancel this barf fest called “19 and counting” is a scandal itself.

    • nightmoth

      They’re floating the idea of canceling 19 Kids and having a new show that follows the daughter who recently had a baby, because her birthing got their highest ratings ever. She’s the one whose father-in-law just wrote a long christo-fascist piece defending Josh. A lot of people are sending TLC emails about this sorry situation, but as they’ve already got another christianist show in the wings called “Submissive Wives,” I don’t think majority opinion matters to them. They have a reliable base of right-wing christianist viewers, who are even now mouthing off about “persecution.”

      • GarColga

        I had to laugh when I saw the premise for this new spin-off! If this thing makes it to the air, it promises to be the most boring reality show ever, it will make “Life’s A Tripp” seem exciting. Watching the antics of two bland, undereducated, sheltered women and their two moronic husbands will be as thrilling as watching paint dry.

  • pragmatist3

    Hmmmm.
    Josh does multiple diddles of multiple girls, including his sisters.
    Parents keep quiet about it for a year.
    Then they send him to a “program” which happens to be run by a sex offender for “treatment.” The treatment is slave labor for Hobby Lobby.
    Then they mention to a state trooper that Josh had one diddle moment and he says “no biggie” on his way to starting a 56 year term for kiddie porn. And they say “great.”
    There are like a dozen kids growing up right now in this house.
    Is their a Child Services department in Arkansas?
    If so, might they not wonder if this household is a suitable one for raising children?

    • lesterthegiantape

      THIS IS MY QUESTIERN! Why the hell haven’t the athotahs descended upon this semen-stained hell-house of sexual sex and removed the daughters from it? I mean they generally can remove kids from the parents for no reason at all, if they so choose. But nobody seems to care about these poor girls who are about to become cum dumpsters birthing machines for Jesus, like Momma. It’s horrifying.

    • Rabbit_Rebozo

      Yes. Read in this gruesome thread how effective the system in Arkansas is. Then go and get very drunk and watch kitten videos for the rest of the day.

    • Tio_Doidinho

      Might they not wonder if this household is a suitable one for raising children?

      Such a silly question! The producers installed dozens of power strips throughout the house for TV cameras. It’s absolutely perfect for raising kids!

  • Ryan Denniston

    Well, as long as YOU are convinced that Jesus forgives you…

  • mcnc

    SHIIIRRRRRRE!!!!!

    DUGGARRRRRRRZZZ!!!!

  • “The young girl should have been my first priority.” That’s the first and only time I’ve seen anyone from this clown car from hell say ANYTHING about the victim(s).

    • Whollyholeyholy

      And it happens to be a person who would have otherwise been watching the whole thing and taping it. but since people’re asking questions…

  • Kat Anyperson
  • Jennifer Gottfried

    But the statute of limitations is not expired for the Duggar girls, should they choose to press charges. I don’t think the DA could do anything without a complaining witness though. And I doubt any of the Duggar clan would dare to move forward against their brother. I wonder if this is what started their whole buddy system rules?

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