Strict constitutionalistKentucky Senator Rand Paul has some ideas. And they are that if Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is going to be such a total Hitler as to suggest that a senator who wants to filibuster something has to actually filibuster that thing, then Rand Paul would like some Senate “rule changes” of his own! First and foremost? A “waiting period” of 20 days for each page of proposed legislation! This is very appropriate, because if you are going to make citizens sit through a “waiting period” to purchase guns from Jesus, shouldn’t we blah blah blah libertarian horgleschlommenhurk. Now we all know that Obamacare was 2400 pages, because Fox News said so. (No it wasn’t.) So with the Rand Paul waiting period, we would have had to wait 131 and a half years before we could pass it. We almost already did! But was today the most felicitous time for Kentucky Senator Rand Paul to unveil his snotty tantrum guardianship of the sacred Constitution, considering we are in a “waiting period” to find out if more than one child was more than 18 children were murdered at a Connecticut school? SURE. WHY NOT.

“They tell me you need to wait to buy a gun,” Paul said in 2010.

“I tell them they need to wait before they pass legislation, read the bills.”

“Pretty good line,” Hannity said in response.

Haha, PRETTY GOOD LINE, RAND PAUL. Maybe you could try saying it again today.


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  • Barbara_

    I enjoyed a tweet from Piers Morgan today for the first time:
    Piers Morgan ‏@piersmorgan
    Any moment now, a gun nut will tweet me saying 'If all the kids in that school had been armed, the shooters would have been stopped…'

    • stefanbc
      • sullivanst

        Not much of a surprise on the source. I'm with "RAD GOGGLES DOG".

        • me too

        • not that Dewey

          That's pretty succinct.

      • GunToting[Redacted]

        Ah, yes… Brian "Anal" Fissure. Always good to hear what dribbles out of his syphilitic cranium.

      • miss_grundy

        Another white senior citizen who should just roll over and die. And we have another story of another white guy who can't deal with his problems so let's get a gun and start shooting strangers. What is it with angry white men and guns? Really? How does killing strangers at a mall or children in a school remedy your problems, Mr. Shooter? Why don't you just kill yourself and put yourself out of your own misery.

      • Barbara_

        Oh Stefanbc, I didn't think anyone would have the balls to do it.

        • stefanbc

          The man was born without the chromosome containing shame. Or a soul for that matter.

          • Barbara_

            Stef, I am waiting for the Westboro Baptist jerks to make travel plans. I will walk to CT if I have to in order to block them.

          • Jus_Wonderin

            Walk to Dallas, and we can walk together.

          • sullivanst

            I thought the preferred mode of transport for blocking the Phelps clan was motorcycle.

          • Beowoof

            I will be there on mine if I have to ride it through a blizzard to drown out Fred and his idiot psycho schlock.

          • redarmyzombie


            I myself have been in the mood for a ball-busting (or cunt-punting) contest since the past couple of hours. You in?

      • Can we just retweet with a big fuck off, you idiot?

      • Mr. Professional Troll Fischer has it right. Guns protect people because just CARRYING THEM AROUND creates a magical unicorn-laden safe red white & blue bubble around people where no bullet can enter.

        I am sick to my stomach over this shooting and all I can really say about it is FUCK GUNS AND GUN NUTS.

        • bikerlaureate

          Now they're questioning the true identity of the shooter, but one imagines a mother seeing her son approach might well be two or three crucial seconds slower in comprehending and reacting.

      • bikerlaureate

        For posterity:

        Shooters attack an elementary school in CT – another "gun-free zone." Makes children sitting ducks.

        (There's no way this guy can be unintentionally tone-deaf, to this degree…)

  • glasspusher

    No snark here. Enough is enough. Fuck the NRA and the horse it rode in on.

    • PugglesRule

      Fuck them sideways with the Empire State Building. And votes.

      And in the meantime I sit here crying and shaking about the total insanity and unfixable wrongness of this day.

      • Terry

        OMG. The photos of the kids coming out of the school, single file with a hand on the shoulder of the kid in front of them.

        NO ONE, but particularly not kids, should have to go through this.

        • Yea, that one girl hysterically crying while she stumbles along…that's the story, right there, in one image.

          • Terry

            Yes, that's the face that hurts my heart most

          • qwerty42

            I have not seen the pictures (except 1 at TPM) and I do not want to. They will probably show up and I'll see them, but this is too horrible for words.
            However, I gather the Supreme Court and the NRA are in favor because the Founding Fathers (blessings upon their names) were totally on board with the murder of the innocent.

      • (Hugs you) I'm so sorry, Puggles. So very sorry.

    • freakishlywrong

      Word. This shit has got to stop. Now.

      • glasspusher

        I gotta donate some money here or I'm going to get an ulcer…

        • We didn't get lucky this time, like yesterday across the country in Clakamas, Oregon, and have the gun jam. You don't kill 27 with a freakin' revolver. You can only kill that many with high capacity magazines and an automatic. Those asshats in Congress, every fucking one of them that let the FAW ban expire, should have to go to Connecticut and meet with the families.

          • glasspusher

            We can't rely on luck, weej…fuck.

        • Toomush_Infer

          We need some non-profit whose only goal is to make fun of the NRA, it's staff, members and supporters….(Snark back on)…

    • TaggWatchesYou

      My words exactly. This shit is insane, and you know in about 48 hours the NRA will release some ridiculous statement to somehow spin this latest incident as isolated rather than part of a huge fucking problem in the country.

    • jello_mold

      Horse? You give them too much credit.

      Fuck the NRA and the slimy rock they crawled out from under.

      • viennawoods13

        Pickup with gun rack they rode in on.

    • GortRay

      There have always been deranged psychos but now,thanks to the evil thugs at NRA, the country has been flooded with guns in the last few decades and the psychos can easily arm themselves to the teeth. It wasn't always this way.

    • redarmyzombie

      I say fuck them with the handgun they came in with.


    • Schmegeg

      Is it too soon to hope the NRA headquarters catches fire and savagely burns it's senior people to death while their secretaries and interns are out to lunch?

      • glasspusher

        No, it is not, but we gotta do more. Donate!

  • Paul would respond that, if those third graders had been armed, none of this would have happened.

    • Terry

      If I had a dick, Rand Paul could suck it.

      • I do, and I wouldn't let him.

        • Terry


          I hate truly, fundamentally stupid and mean people like Rand Paul, not because I disagree with them but because of their inability to use actual reason.

    • Terry

      CBS said the shooter's mother was the kindergarten teacher and he was shooting in that room. He was shooting kindergarteners.

      • HistoriCat

        Shit – I can't read any more on this. As the parent of a kindergarten aged kid, I just want to vomit.

        • Terry

          Obama had tears in his eyes during his statement

    • HistoriCat

      Rand Paul can go fuck a light socket.

    • eddie izzard would disrespectfully disagree and be a shitload funnier:

  • "Do what I say, or the penis gets it!"

    • Which would be a first

      • Oblios_Cap

        I think he needs a sight, or he'll never find it.

    • With these guys, you'd end up with all of 'em shot. And their dicks, too.

      • I said that like it was a *bad* thing, huh? I meant, YAY, extinguish those mufuckas, with votes of course.

  • Shypixel

    If only some of those kids had been armed, this tragedy could have been prevented or lessened…

    Guns don't kill kids, people kill kids. But the guns are happy to help.

  • freakishlywrong

    Hoisted by his own teatard..

  • Pragmatist2

    How about this: Rand Paul has to wait 20 days for every page of Atlas Shrugged before he can open his mouth again. That's 21,760 days. Roughly 60 years.

    • SuspectedDemocrat

      Is that all? The book seemed much longer to me.

      • Pragmatist2

        Actually it was endless but they ran out of printed pages at 1088.

  • freakishlywrong

    We need Wayne La Pierre's head. Preferably on a stick. With votes.

    • OneDollarJuana

      On a bayonet. Of votes.

    • TootsStansbury

      It would be appropriate if it were full of lead. Lead votes.

    • jqheywood

      I'm okay without the votes here today…

      • Yeah, but what if BeccaLou ain't? ID just eated another of my comments.

        • sullivanst

          Seems like an event like this might tri-gger the eating of many comments.

          • It was a pretty mild comment, by my standards. :(

          • dadanarchistmk2

            I can commiserate; ID has eaten two of my paraphrases of Me as Jesus Quintana's threat to Wayne "Walter Sobchak" LaPierre.

          • (Hugs you) Thanks. Every little hug helps.

          • sullivanst

            Yup, that one contains one of Wonkette's two least favorite words in the whole world, the thing that will be pulled until it goes click. My dash wasn't random, it was there to dodge the autodelete.

          • redarmyzombie

            If it helps, Weedlord, I myself am not in the mood for votes right this moment.

          • Oh, sweetpea! C'mere, lemme hug you. It's been a hard day for all of us who don't think humans should be hunted for sport.

          • redarmyzombie

            *hugs* Thanks Weedlord. It's been a hard couple of weeks for me. One of my kitties passed away while I was in the middle of finals, and I really haven't had the chance to think about it till today, and then this happens. It's just hard to process all at once.

          • (Hugs you some more) I'm so sorry, baby. So sorry. You come get as many hugs as you need, whenever you need them.

            And remember it's just a cycle. Constituent atoms, recycle again and again in different dances of being, that's all. Kitteh is with you always, in the air you breathe, dancing in dust motes.

          • redarmyzombie

            *hugs* I know, it's just taking some time to adjust. I actually was cleaning up the backyard a few days after she passed, and I found another bird she left for me as a present, and strange as it sounds (because it is) it brought me a chuckle.

  • glasspusher

    Here's an idea- make 90 or 100% of NRA dues go towards compensating victims of gun violence?

    • NellCote71

      I like that.

      • glasspusher

        yeah, maybe they could build a magic machine with the money that could bring the dead back to life :(

  • Botlrokit

    Police officer gets killed in Memphis, today, too, also.

    • Also today, a employee shot himself in the head in the Federal courthouse in Birmingham right in the court clerk's office.

      What the gun-crazy asshats in the country forget about is not only the victims of gun violence but the people who either have loved ones who die as a result of gun violence or have to witness such tragedies.

      How many decades will those kids in Connecticut have to be in counseling, I wonder?

  • Callyson

    A “waiting period” of 20 days for each page of proposed legislation!

    Now, I realize that senators are not intellectuals, but if they need twenty days to read one page of legislation, they need to find a new profession, stat…

    • Shypixel

      Are we still saying stat?

    • Naked_Bunny

      There's already a waiting period on bills. It's called "debate". It often lasts more than 20 days, except in Michigan.

  • noodlesalad

    I cannot snark about school shootings. Anyone who suggests we don't need to take a serious look at the gun laws in this country is either insane or too stupid to make decisions about gun laws.

    I can drink myself into oblivion, though, so see you fuckers on Monday or maybe Tuesday.

    • right.

      18 dead children.

      the fuck is wrong with us?

    • Don't leave. We'll need someone to drink with.

    • viennawoods13

      There was a shooting at my school when i was in Grade 9. 3 people died. I am going to go home and get drunk, and I literally cannot look at / listen to coverage of this.

      • (Hugs you and gently pats your back) Don't look/listen. You need to be away from this. Let me know if there's anything I can do.

        • viennawoods13

          I am. not going near any site but this, and not turning on radio or tv. This hits too close to home for me. Fuck it. That was 37 years ago and every time it happens, I am right back there. I was lucky; all I witnessed was the smell of gunpowder from the hunting rifle the kid used. One girl I got to know the next year cradled the head of one of the victims in her lap. and I also became friends with that victims's sister.

          FUCK the NRA. Assholes.

          • (Hugs you and pats your back some more) I know. I was just remembering smelling the sharp smell, hearing the cracks of the shots. They seemed so far away, until the blood started to pour. The rusty-iron smell of blood close up. Those poor little kids.

            You stay away from the news for a couple of days, OK? If you have any herb, now's the time for it. To keep the trauma at bay.

          • viennawoods13

            Thanks, I'll do my best. No herb for me(can't inhale) but I'll use some tequila. And a big suck of a kitteh is purring up a storm and kneading my stomach. Take care, everybody.

          • I'll inhale extra for you, then. I need to wake those kitties up for some lovin'. Lazy bastids are snoring ON MY BED, how dare they. Take care, love. Talk to you soon.

      • mayor_quimby

        What the fuck is wrong with our society when you can play six degrees of school shooting separation with a random internet "friend" and not use up all the fingers on one hand. That is seriously fucked up. Maybe one day people will say, you know maybe tolerating a random shooting every week or so ISN'T OKAY and we'll make some changes.

        • viennawoods13

          In 2010 there were 8,775 murders involving guns in the United States. More than 2 9/11s a year. Where's the outrage from the patriots over innocent civilians losing their lives?

          Here in Canada, we average 145 a year. That's still way too many, but even if you multiply x 10 to account for the population difference, there are 6 times as many gun murders per capita in the States.

          So, either Americans are just way more psychotic than Canadians, or yes, NRA, guns DO fucking kill people. Fuckers.

  • Lizzietish81

    Oh Rand, you are a lesser version of your crazy father, forever shall you dwell in his shadow.

    • Terry

      He's stupider than his father. Ron Paul is crazy and a racist, Rand Paul is even worse than that.

  • The bar for Ron Paul's relevance has been set so low you can’t slide a stick of gum under it.

    • Biel_ze_Bubba

      Or a page of legislation.

  • Dr_Zoidberg

    The latest I'm hearing is that at least 27 people are dead, including at least 14 children.

    And our gun laws and the gun culture will still not change. I wonder how soon the fucking NRA will come out with their defense?

    • I'm sure they're working on a "WOLVERINES!" response as we speak.

      • Lizzietish81

        18 children now…what the fuck

        • glasspusher

          Kids. Fuck fucking fucking fuck.

          • Goonemeritus

            It is long past time to restrict insane people from having guns. And to declare the wish to own a handgun a sure sign of insanity.

          • glasspusher

            Well said, sir.

          • sullivanst

            Sounds catchy, I like it.

        • comrad_darkness

          I have an angry sad. 'Course "this is such a terrible time to talk about gun control" the right will tell us. Well that would be every fucking day, bitches.

        • redarmyzombie

          20 children. The latest figure is 20.

    • freakishlywrong

      It's fucking awful.

    • Terry

      The NRA already has a spin machine running full tilt on this.

      • TootsStansbury

        That is almost as evil as some random loon shooting up a bunch of poor kids. This is sickening and so fucking sad. How many more have to needlessly and violently die !

        See the typos? Tears.

        • (Hugs you) It's a day to rant and rave. But this is the last straw. Tomorrow we turn this into action. I wish I could take everyone's pain away and bring the dead children back. I can't. But we can make sure no more follow in their steps.

    • sewollef

      And what will their defence be? If only the schoolchildren were all armed, is that gonna be it?

      When-oh-when will politicians stand up to the NRA and gun crazies around this country and say enough of our children have died. We're taking your guns.

      Fucking hell.

      • sullivanst

        Of course they're slightly less stupid than that, albeit just as evil. "If only the teachers were all armed" is probably going to be their line.

        • I foresee a future in which all teachers will have to be firearms-proficient to keep their jobs.

          Unless, of course, we crush this fucking thing like a bug, with lots of soft, silly, pink paper VOTES. (please stop eating my comments? plz?)

      • miss_grundy

        That's what a doofus on Twitter wrote. Really? Like teaching children to shoot guns as well as reading, writing, math and science is going to do the trick? Letting people have guns is stupid. You want to shoot join the armed forces and have at it. Become a spy. But the idea of owning automatic weapons which is the crazy's choice of weaponry is just plain stupid. No citizen should be allowed to own an automatic weapon.

      • (Hugs you) We can make this happen. We can tap into the will of people all across this country and make this happen. We just have to feel the pain of this right now, but we won't let this go.

      • Brian Fischer's saying it already. Yup.

  • sullivanst

    I love that Rand Paul thinks making Democrats vote against truly the inane babble Paul wants to put forward is a "threat".

    • If you had ended that sentence after "thinks," it would have been perfect. Perfectly and hilariously wrong.

  • jello_mold

    That's a picture of the worst hobo garage sale evah.

    • sullivanst

      Just how much is the hobo? I'm asking for a friend.

  • stefanbc

    In a functioning Democracy Rand Paul and Wayne Lapierre would have been strapped to a rocket and shot into the sun back in the early 1990's

    • Too expensive. Shovels, lye, pitchforks, torches — I'm all about low-tech, low-cost solutions.

      • PugglesRule

        Don't forget the tar and feathers!

        • Why not? I'm totally cool with that too. We'll give these fuckers' cheeks a dusting they'll never forget.

      • miss_grundy

        Where's Cardinal Torquemada and the Spanish Inquisition when you really need him?

        • Moldering, unfortunately, the miserable bastard. Never around when needed, these churchmen.

    • HistoriCat

      In a caring society they would have been given the attention and specialized education they need to cope with the rest of the world, possibly in a group home.

  • Hammiepants

    Fuck the NRA with fiery swords and also every pernicious fucktard who thinks that when the Bill of Rights was written, the FFs meant it to cover fucking MAC-10s. And NOT with votes.

    • (Hugs you also) May the fires of a thousand fiery hells burn in their rectums day and night until the recalcitrant bastids either go tits-up or change their rotten ways. I'm good with either outcome.

  • Biff

    27 dead, 18 of which are children. Fuck you, wayne lapierre.

    • glasspusher

      Biff, srsly, you're a gun owner, yes? Perspective from your point of view?

      • Biff

        Yes, I am. In my opinion there needs to be serious background checks, not the bullshit we have now. In almost all of these cases, there's a documented screw loose in the murderer's background. I'm sure some reporter will interview a neighbor who will say the murderer was a good neighbor, father, citizen, etc, and never saw this coming. Bull fucking shit, people don't usually just suddenly snap like this, it's been manifesting for some time…

        • glasspusher

          Thanks. What's your take on automatics?

          • Goonemeritus

            Any gun that is primarily designed to kill people should be banned. I know this will not happen in my lifetime but when you see individuals being marketed riot shotguns with folding stocks you have to wonder.

          • Biff

            Fucking administrator won't let me say what I mean to say, so just let it be known that full-auto=bad.

          • sullivanst

            Also, full-auto = effectively illegal, and has been for a long time.

            It's worth noting, though, that while special forces the world over have access to fully auto weapons, they're usually trained not to use them in full auto mode. Semi auto is more effective, because aiming.

          • GunToting[Redacted]

            That's what I tried to say, but evidently used a forbidden term.

          • sullivanst

            Yeah, that thing you hold down to spray bullets in a poorly controlled fashion with a full automatic? It Shall Not Be Named on yr Wonket.

          • GunToting[Redacted]

            AH. The finger-thingy. Got it.

          • GunToting[Redacted]

            Same here. Are there new rules for us radicals?

          • Biff

            I'm pretty sure it was the “T” word that jammed me up. I'll be good, I promise!

          • glasspusher

            Roy Roger's horse? Gotcha.

        • comrad_darkness

          Seems like we have to play in the NRA's world, which means revoking guns when people get a restraining order or a diagnosis of mental illness. Which means we need to actually do something about the rampant mental illness in this country. That wouldn't be a bad thing.

          Why do the mentally ill gun owners have all the fucking rights and the rest of us none?

        • Goonemeritus

          I am not a gun owner but I grew up around guns and was the captain of my high school rifle team (military academy). I have lived in rural areas and urban areas and I realize there are differences in attitudes towards guns based on where you live. I know plenty of sane sportsmen who enjoy hunting and shooting but the personal protection crowd invariably scare the crap out of me. I have lived and or worked in neighborhoods that are high crime and it has never occurred to me that packing a handgun would make me safer. Most of the personal protection gun fetishist live in low crime neighborhoods and have stockpiles of guns that would support the overthrow of a small Caribbean nation.

          • I used to work with a guy who had a stockpile *in his office.* Made us all very nervous about telling him the system was down, or our machines weren't working. Wouldn't have surprised *any* of us if he'd gone on to star in this type of movie, either.

          • PugglesRule

            Michigan just passed a law allowing people to carry handguns in day care centers.

            I really fear for humanity.

          • WUT?

          • sullivanst

            Their Lame Duck session is also a Batshit Fucking Crazy Stuff The GOP Wants To Give Voters The Longest Possible Time To Forget About session this year.

          • It is ON now, bitches. It is fucking ON.

          • sullivanst

            Oh yeah, it's ON like Donkey Kong.

            Fucking MIGOP sent a note this afternoon to Gov. Snyder telling him he better still sign the gun bill, or they'll be really huffy.

          • stefanbc

            Sadly if you are a constitutional originalist the "personal protection" bullshit is actually quite in line with the original intent of the 2nd.

            Then again the originalists are retrograde assholes without exception.

          • WhatTheHolyHeck

            It should be said they didn't have semi-automatics back in the days of yore.

        • miss_grundy

          Actually, a member of the family said the shooter wasn't right in the head. Yet, Mommy kept a gun in the house. Really? Your son doesn't seem to be right in the head and you own a gun. Well, Mommy got shot in the face and then sonny went to the school and killed 20 children and 6 adults.

      • GunToting[Redacted]

        I'll answer for Biff, as I'm also a gun owner. I fucking loath Wayne LaPierre and the NRA. I also don't believe that the NAW ban worked, and don't want to see it reinstituted. It was bad policy, and focused on "scary" guns (WTF does banning a gun with a flash suppressor do?). It did nothing for the millions of guns already out there, which continued to be sold, traded, and stolen.

        I don't think there really is a solution. It's tragic, but the genie is long departed from this particular bottle. Better screening will help a bit, but even that is window dressing. The gun industry is flush with cash, and there are far too many gun owners who will freak the FUCK out if anyone even breathes additional restrictions. Hell, most of the Democrats in congress are unwilling to vote for control measures because they know it would mean their seat in the next election.


        • shelwood46

          Just because there isn't a perfect solution doesn't mean we can't make improvements. I just heard the stat that, thanks to the gun show loophole among other things, 40% of guns sold in the US don't require a background check. That's ridiculous. We need to make some changes. No, we'll never stop all shootings, but we can do better.

          • GunToting[Redacted]

            Agreed on that. The gun show loophole is a glaringly obvious place to start. I think this debate also misses the point about mental health in the US. Ever since St. Ronnie flushed the asylums, there is nearly no way to capture the sort of mental illness that would lead some subhuman to murder CHILDREN. If only we had some sort of government-sponsored healthcare to help with this…

          • Private gun sales, too. I can sell you my gun, and not even ask who you are.

          • GunToting[Redacted]

            Agreed, and I have done many private sales, but always with people I know (those in the sport shooting community). Personally, I can't see how you can regulate private sales. What do I do, go to a shop, hand the guy behind the counter $40 for the paperwork, then have HIM hand the gun to the other guy?I really can't tell you how to craft a good bill. Mag capacity is yet another arbitrary factor. The fact that this guy may have had 100+ rounds of ammo means he HAD to have multiple magazines/weapons. How do you regulate that? If I have a 10-round max capacity, I bring more mags or guns. Banning “black guns” will make some people feel good, but accomplish nothing but drive up the prices on the secondary market.This is why I made the genie comment. Anyone who is going to go off the rails and commit such an atrocity already has a ready arsenal. I suppose we might prevent something down the road 20 years, but it's naive to think we can undo the current situation with some band-aid laws.

          • Yes. Are you in? I'm in. I cannot let this happen again. Let's organize, goddammit, I'm sick of being shot at like some fucking goose on the green, literally or figuratively. This has fucking GOT to stop.

        • sullivanst

          Much of the AWB was ridiculous, but the one part that should clearly be reinstated is the ban on high capacity magazines.

          There is a sea of weapons out there, and a sea of high-cap mags, so a ban will have only a marginal effect on mass shootings for many years. But isn't that all the more reason to get moving on it, so that the time where it is hard for someone intent on murdering the largest number of people possible to acquire the most useful tools for doing so comes sooner?

        • glasspusher

          Hey man, Thanks for your thoughts- there may not be a solution, but can it be improved? Now they're saying that this guy used 100 rounds or so? Do you think it's possible to write a good law banning assault or automatic weapons?I dunno. Us non-NRA folks need to get as organized and mean as the NRA.

          • Remember, it took 14 fucking years after some idiot tried to kill Reagan before the NRA weakened enough that the Brady Bill could pass.

          • Yes.

        • No. This is the turning point. We can't let this go, or we'll wake up to eighteen, twenty, two hundred kids being shot tomorrow or next week. We have to stop it NOW. Tell me what kind of restrictions you would accept as a sensible gun owner.

          • GunToting[Redacted]

            I can't accept any actual bans, because all such bans are based in ignorance and fear. Most people don't want to hear that, but it's true. How many people are saying we should banish “automatic” weapons? These are already strictly regulated, and have never been used in this type of tragedy. I would rather see stringent background checks and enforcement of existing laws. It's like I said above… There are already millions of guns out there that are not going to vanish. You think we have a political issue now? Watch the shitstorm happen when someone suggests seizing personal guns.

          • mayor_quimby

            I agree, there's no way to start seizing guns, we don't have enough bullets to cover all the police standoffs that would start. What do you think of what I proposed, using liability law to encourage people to self-register. I know it won't reach dirtbags and many legal gun owners, but it's a start.

          • How exactly would that work? I don't know enough about how liability laws apply to gun incidents. Have you any pointers to sites where this is discussed at greater length, or any advice on what I might read to familiarize myself with the issue?

          • I want to preserve my right to buy and use guns, so I'm listening. Stringent background checks aren't happening largely because the NRA has mounted challenges on the local, state, and federal levels to any attempt to do so. 40% or more of guns sold without background checks are sold at gun shows, according to the stats I'm seeing right now. So getting rid of the gun show exemption should help, yes?

            How can licensing be made more stringent? Yearly testing/ownership/registration requirements? What can we do, realistically, given that local/state budgets are tight and they can outspend us a hundred to one? Would passing a fingerprint-lock system help?

          • GunToting[Redacted]

            Other than in James Bond movies, I can't see a fingerprint/biometric system being at all feasible. Look at it this way… We now live in the world the Teabaggers want… A government too poor and weak to institute any laws to regulate their bang sticks.

          • No. I'm not willing to give up on this. It has to change. I can't have one more dead child's blood on my hands because I did nothing. I'll go look around. Let me know if you hear anything sensible about gun regulation that you think is a good idea and can be done, thanks.

          • mayor_quimby

            I actually would lean towards liability law as a way to get started. for example: require people to be held liable for what is done with their gun, either by themselves or by someone who steals their gun. This would lead to insurance, and maybe even self-registration, mandating registration is always the fear of 2nd amendment absolutists. So if I have a gun and want to not be held liable, I register it with the cops or with Geico, who issues my gun insurance policy. And if I get convicted of something, or have a restraining order against me, somebody knows and takes precautions.
            It's a long hill to climb, but maybe that's a start.

          • GunToting[Redacted]

            I'm good with that, but can assure you that the heavy 2A crowd will scream bloody murder about this. Remember, the only reason anyone wants you to register your guns is so the UN knows who to target when the takeover comes.

          • sullivanst

            The heavy 2A crowd has been screaming bloody murder nonstop for the past four years, despite the fact that the only changes to federal gun laws during that period have been relaxations in regulation, and state and local gun regulations have been eviscerated. There's no way to shut them up, and I'm not sure the difference between them screaming bloody murder and screaming blue bloody murder is significant enough to worry about.

          • I can't not do something at this point. I looked at clips of the school. Some of those kids are just little toddlers. They barely understand what's happening. We can't leave them a world like this. We must do something. I just don't give a shit about the 2A types and the NRA any more.

          • sullivanst

            My point was mostly intended to be that we should not worry about the likes of LaPierre. Their screeching is constant anyway, whatever we try to do.

            I actually think the first priority needs to be to make sure filibuster reform happens on the first day of Senate session. I would not feel good about having to get to 60 votes on any gun regulation at all, no matter how modest and/or commonsense.

            The thought of having to get to 218 in the House is also daunting. For any proposed regulation to pass, it's probably going to have to be of a form that can be sold powerfully enough to suburban voters that someone like a Jon Runyan (R, NJ-03) or a Joe Heck (R, NV-03) fears their backlash from a Nay more than he fears the NRA's backlash from a Yay. I have no idea how to persuade Boehner to allow a bill to come to debate, though. A discharge petition isn't a great way to go since it's a slow process.

          • OK, filibuster reform is already on the agenda according to Harry Reid. Suburban voters, I think we can get to. 218 votes in the House is definitely daunting. We can only give it our all, tho. We can only try.

          • glasspusher

            As you pointed out before- people put in gun laws because of fear and ignorance. Likewise, you suggest above that most of the 2A crowd is motivated by fear and ignorance.

            The genie may be out of the bottle, there may be 50 bazillion guns out there, but that's no reason to stop trying to make this mess better.

            I understand that 99.9% of gun owners are cool, but as a (possibly imperfect) analogy, I work with chemicals on a regular basis that would kill you, and by the time you realized it, half an hour later, it would be too late for anything to stop it. You can't go to a trade show and buy it, selling it privately is illegal, and those who do use it have to go through rigorous training to use it, and those who don't usually die from it. I wouldn't want such an item available to the general public, and it does a lot of useful things besides having the potential to kill you. Can you say the same about guns? Time to re-examine your interests. I would gladly give up using this stuff if it meant saving 30 people a year.

          • miss_grundy

            Let the 2A crowd scream bloody murder and let's break their backs and the back of the NRA. I'm angry, really, really, angry. I would love to use a gun owner as a soccer ball right now. No, it would be better to use a gun owner as a pinata. And not with votes, either. I'm tired of this country's romance with a gun. I'm tired that you can't go to a movie, or shopping in a mall or send a child to school because of an idiot's need to deal with his problems by using a gun on strangers. I'm tired of people saying we can't do anything. If we have the will, we can.

          • Oops, if I'd read the WHOLE thread …

            I'm not sure about how this would work in real life. For one thing, would it burden the cops? Who would pay for the software, training, new regulations, legal review? How much of the burden would fall on the individual? As it is, cops don't even know when there's TROs in their own precincts. This needs more research. Thanks.

      • mayor_quimby

        I'm a gun owner too, and this shit is getting way out of hand. We need better background checks on one end, and more access to mental health on the other end – so some lunatic gets help before snapping.

    • (Hugs the Biffster) But only with sharp and rusty implements, dear Biffz. Trying not to spiral into a depression here.

  • Goonemeritus

    It takes Libertarian 20 days on average to read a page of text. This number is lower if there are a lot of pictures.

  • sewollef

    The Guardian is reporting 27 dead, 18 of them children. The gunman was an adult.

    I' a Brit and have lived here [New York] for nearly a decade and this love affair with guns is the main thing I hate about this country.


    • sullivanst

      ABC saying two gunmen now, one of whom is still at large.

      I'm similarly situated, although a more recent immigrant. Kids in my school knew victims of Michael Ryan, but damn, that still didn't prepare me for this.

      • sewollef

        And the *er, not now* movement has started… from the White House no less:

        "White House spokesman Jay Carney said today is not the day to discuss gun control."

        • comrad_darkness

          So all the NRA has to do is make sure there is a mass shooting every single day. Win/Win for them.

        • finallyhappy

          yes, because we need to wait for a day when no one is murdered- so never.

          • We're up to multiple mass murder attempts *daily,* at this point, so we're just going to ignore that little limitation. Others might not want to talk about this, but we do.

  • I am beyond snark – 24 dead including 17 kids.

    I say fuck these people take their guns away!

    We won the last election and will win the next and the next one – it's demographics. So just do it. Let these people move to another country or planet if they want.

    Really, really angry here….

    • Biff

      According to pretty much every RWGN evar, now is not the time to talk about gun control.

    • and no politician will touch it.

      i am so angry i'm going to actually start doing something. i don't know what but if our fucking politicians won't do anything, citizens can at least make some noise.

      • (Hugs you) It IS time to be angry, goddammit. It's like these fuckers are always throwing so much shit at us — workers' rights, women's rights, health care, munniez for Poorz and Oldz and disabled, food for hungry kids — that we can't stop fighting fires long enough to think policy and planning. But this has fucking gone far enough. We need to reach out to everybody, unite around this cause, raise some fucking munniez, and a shitload of noise. We can't do anything for these poor kids, but we can ensure no other kids join them.

    • (Hugs you) Really angry, really sad. Time to DO something to ensure this never happens again.

  • kyeshinka

    Comedy is all about timing, yet another thing the right wing doesn't understand. Like astronomy, photosynthesis, chemistry, biology, human reproduction, basic math, Islam, Christianity, foreign languages, foreign language education, education in general…

  • HRH_Maddie

    HAHAHAHAHAH, gun jokes are so funny. Right up there with dead baby jokes. Always crowd pleasers, always.

    • Pat_Pending

      rape and abortion jokes are also guaranteed to break the ice at parties!

    • (Hugs you)

  • Lot_49

    Remember: somebody somewhere stabbed somebody some time, so NO GUN CONTROL!

    Some "former FBI profiler" (sketchiest possible prior occupation) was on the teevee a few minutes ago talking about an elementary school stabbing in China today, so….It's False Equivalence Time once again! And you thought the election would put an end to that.

    • You can be killed with enough paper cuts! Why no "paper control", huh, Libs?

      • Lot_49

        Obama's gonna take away my Ginsu knife!

        • They can have my Post-Its when they pry 'em from my cold dead hands…

    • miss_grundy

      The difference with stabbing is you have to be in the person's face to do something like that. With an automatic weapon, you can walk by or ride by and let it rip. Did the anchor talking to this talking head provide a response?

      • Lot_49

        No, and oddly enough it was Alex Wagner on MSNBC, who says we ought to re-think the Second Amendment. In her defense, it's a confusing time to be on teevee, and her usual job is giving opinions, whereas now she has to do real news.

      • That's a subtle distinction the NRA and gun nuts never make: the technology when the Founders wrote the Second Amendment meant that you had to stand close to your victim and really carefully aim your weapon. You looked in his face, and you had a moment to think your actions through.

        I can pretty much guarantee you, if they saw what this Amendment has wrought, they'd erase it faster than they'd pull out of a slave.

    • shelwood46

      Don't forget: people die in car accidents, but we don't ban cars!

      • sullivanst

        That's one of my favorites, because we also require cars to have safety belts, impose speed limits, require pre-permit written tests, strong proof of identity, and test that drivers can safely use a vehicle prior to licensing; we also require liability and third-party personal injury insurance as a precondition of owning a vehicle, and have established procedures for revoking a license.

    • mayor_quimby

      Yeah, I heard that shit overnight on BBC and thought what the fuck, then hear about this shooting today. The thing is, I don't think any of those Chinese kids died, so who's better off here?

  • not that Dewey

    Rape? Child mass murder? Gun nuts? If I wanted to read about this much violence, I'd go to my local CBS affiliate.

  • southernboyman

    The Aqua Budda is back in use…

  • Tommmcatt_Again

    It horrifies me that we are so politically impotent on the left that we can't make a simple fucking handgun law stick. MSNBC is reporting that children are now routinely drilled in schools on what to do if a spree killer shows up. This is the American future we're leaving them? Mass Murders and police shootings?

    • ElPinche

      Yes, at my kid's school here in Texas, they have code words that only the kids and teachers know for different types of incidents. It's beyond sad.

  • glasspusher

    If some motherfucker shot my kid with a gun, I'd sure as hell want to kill him with my bare hands, and no other way.

    • finallyhappy

      He is dead already.

      • glasspusher

        He didn't shoot my kid, but he shot 20 others.

        • Twenty-two. The body count is now up to 22 kids. The poor, poor parents. The poor other kids. Shit.

          • glasspusher

            Just heard on the radio- there are 58,000 gun stores in this country- more than Starbucks stores worldwide. Fuckity fuck!

          • (Hugs you) And this one's for your kid (hugs you some more).

          • glasspusher

            Thanks man, hugs right back at you. I picked up the kiddo and we talked about it on the way home. Looks like donating to the Brady Center is the best way to go. I told guntoting[redacted]:I understand that 99.9% of gun owners are cool, but as a (possibly imperfect) analogy, I work with chemicals on a regular basis that would kill you, and by the time you realized it, half an hour later, it would be too late for anything to stop it. You can't go to a trade show and buy it, selling it privately is illegal, and those who do use it have to go through rigorous training to use it, and those who don't usually die from it. I wouldn't want such an item available to the general public, and it does a lot of useful things besides having the potential to kill you. Can you say the same about guns? Time to re-examine your interests. I would gladly give up using this stuff if it meant saving 30 people a year.

          • Can't even FIND your comment on Wonketz, here's hoping this gets there.It's a fucking horrorshow that parents have to talk to their children about kids being murdered in their own fucking schools. I don't know how I could explain it to my girl. Thank TPTB, she grew up in a better time, although she's off at college now and my anxiety levels are not good. Not good at all.Just keep hugging the kiddo till he tells you to back off. Over 9,000 people are killed in gun incidents each year in this country. The damage done to their families is not even considered. We need to change this. No more dead kids.

  • Lot_49

    There's nothing funny about school children being gunned down by gun fetishists!

    But we're not going to do a damn thing about it.

    So we might as well laugh.

    And maybe feel unbearable pity for the victims and their families.

    • sullivanst

      Personally, I have become uncomfortably numb.

    • You're right Lot_49. Congress will do nothing. Not a thing, because they are terrified of the NRA.

      • Lot_49

        The real terrorists. Wayne LaPierre, proprietor.

      • savethispatient

        I think this might be a tipping point. All it takes is a populist "Concerned Mothers for Gun Control" movement and Congress will act. They might be a new "silent majority".

      • But WE can do something, and we will.

    • We ARE going to do something about it. Or I are, anyway.

      We can only try, dude. It's the only way to cope with this horrorshow.

  • Blueb4sinrise

    Too soon?

    • sewollef

      Yes, apparently it is too soon:

      White House spokesman Jay Carney said today is not the day to discuss gun control.

  • I am a junior high teacher and live 25 minutes away from Newtown. What the fuck is wrong with the world? I've got one more class left today — I hope my students haven't heard about what happened, because I sure as hell don't want to be the one to tell them.

    • ElPinche

      Stupid Huffpo had pictures of some of the elementary school kids being escorted out (Huffpo eventually blurred their faces out). Their horrified and crying faces made me sick to my stomach. I just stopped working and had to a break.

    • miss_grundy

      If there carrying smartphones and checking Facebook or Twitter they probably already know.

      • My kids are all oblivious at the moment, thankfully. If we can just get them through dismissal…

    • It's not "the world." It's what we've allowed a minority of fucking nutbags, and their nutbag organization, the NRA, to do to the majority of us for years now. And now these children. Their blood is on all our hands, if we don't get together and do something NOW.

  • Oh, I don't know….locked in a dunk tank with a colony of candiru sounds pretty appealing to me.

    • sullivanst

      The ancients had some interesting ideas, too.

      • Oh please. We in the West took that and ran with it.

        I've seen most of these in various travels around the world. I would not want to be caught dead in most of them, much less alive.

    • glasspusher

      I'd hit this guy so hard, my fist would come out the other side. I'd want to eviscerate him while he's still alive. Ugh ugh ugh.

  • And hold a convention in the town hall

  • Nostrildamus

    Rand, not everyone reads as slowly as you do.

  • Oblios_Cap

    These sorts of things happen everyday in this country. What a shining beacon of hope we must seem to the rest of the world.

    • I don't have to tell you that those poor foreign students who come to this country have this ^^ kind of story dinned into their ears before they leave. Be careful! Don't look at them! They're crazy, they'll shoot you!

      Too often, it's been proved, too.

    • comrad_darkness

      A Shining City on a Hill . . . surrounded by barbed wire, empty oxy bottles, and marred by trails of spittle drooled by the untreated mentally ill.

      You know, I should do like others and just log off. Sounds good.

  • SuspectedDemocrat

    I want to grab every rabid 2nd amendment spouting gun owner by their red necks and ask them, "Why, with all your precious guns and ideology you believe keeps you safe, did you not prevent this?!"

  • Biff

    Just what the fuck is "well-regulated" about this, NRA? I really want to know how you can justify this.

    • sewollef

      You're not holding your breath while you wait, are you Biff?

  • ElPinche

    Whoa Nelly! Russell Brand let himself go.

    Seriously, I disposed my guns a couple of mass killings ago (I'm a machete and chainsaw man now). And today 18 elementary school kids are dead. I'm sick of this fucking shit.

  • jonnytrumbull

    Okay, that's it. Time for the Second Amendment to go. Sign here and pass it on.

    • miss_grundy

      Done and done. I've shared it on Facebook and tweeted the link as well.

    • Upfisted.

    • sullivanst

      Amendments to the constitution are not within the President's powers, hence the ridicule of GOP candidates' various promises to "sign" amendments (they don't get to sign them).

      So that particular petition, if it reaches 25,000 signatures, is not going to get a useful response, although it would at least serve to exhibit popular sentiment.

      In terms of something that might conceivably stir action from the White House, there's this petition, among others.

      • Done. Thank you. I'm checking out anything and everything that can help, so please pass anything on to me, IRL, at MyBlogName at Gee, Male! dot et cetera.

      • miss_grundy

        Yep, I signed this one too. We need to go after our congresspeople and senators to start working on this. People should be damned angry.

  • SuspectedDemocrat

    Just look it up in the Constitution, sheeple!

    Well, okay, remove the part about "a well regulated militia" and cross out the phrase "necessary to the security of a free state" with a big black marker and you have something akin to the current state of gun laws in this country.

    • That would be great if the Gun Nuts – especially the Open Carry people, who are especially scary – didn't make such noise about the "well-regulated militia" actually being the ENTIRE POPULACE.

      That, and a compliant SCOTUS overruling the DC gun ban by finding that gun possession is a personal right.

    • What are we going to do about it? It's time for this fucking tide to TURN, man.

  • mavenmaven

    Compare- in China today, a similar wacko attacked a school- with a knife. He was quickly apprehended and no one was hurt. Wackos are everywhere, but giving them guns is why there is so much blood spilled in America.

    • Plus, if you've ever tried to beat the shit out of someone with your fists, mano a mano? It is painful, tiring shit, and you run the risk of your victim turning the tables on you and painfully and humiliatingly beating the shit out of YOU instead.

      That doesn't happen with automatic weapons. Makes it SO fucking easy to kill anybody. Even little kids running for their lives.

  • GoodDogThor

    I have a 'pretty good line' for Rand, Hannity, LaPierre, Heston, et. al: FUCK YOU!

  • Jesus fucking J. H. Christ on a pogo stick with bells on and a HAT! WTF is this? It used to be one mass shooting a month, if that. Now we've got two or three EACH AND EVERY DAY. I can't take it!

    • sullivanst

      I recommend you don't read ThinkProgress' coverage of Chicago gun violence. It won't cheer you up.

      • (Hugs you) Sully, this is making me sick to my insides. Give me strength, baby. This canNOT go on. What can we do, what must we do? We need a strategy. We need to crush these fucks and make sure they never do this again.

    • orygoon

      I sort of want to blow my own brains out, I'm so upset, but I got no gun, of course. I am so sick. Mall shoppers here last week, CHILDREN in school this week. CHILDREN. I would have killed that guy myself if I'd been there and had the chance. Screw "with votes"–with my bare hands and my teeth.

      • The good news: The Brady group and the CSGV (Coalition to Stop Gun Violence) are being flooded with munniez and people joining up. Looks like there's a lot of anger out there. Of course, the gun nutz are now crawling out of the woodwork.

        (Hugs you) We have to do something about this. I cannot take this shit any more. I just can't.

  • Jerri

    This is so, so horrible.

    I hate guns. I hate them. And I hate when cowards get their hands on them. People do know they can commit suicide without taking the lives of innocent people too, right? It is possible. You got a beef? Write a manifesto first, asshole.

    (Obviously that's speculation, but lately that seems to be the pattern. That this even any kind of a trend in the first place is about a sad a commentary on our society as can be.)

    • mayor_quimby

      I agree, just fucking off yourself, all stoically and shit. Write a note, jump off a bridge, and don't land on any bystanders. It's the honorable thing to do.
      Or there's always counseling, and booze, and weed.

  • sundaytrucker

    Hard to believe the off-spring of Ron Paul is an idiot.

  • Biff

    These school kids seem to have made a poor choice in attending school today, according to Dana Perino.

    • PugglesRule

      Fuck Dana Perino, again, with votes.

    • I hope you're fucking kidding me.

      • Biff

        Of course I am, even she isn't that big a monster.

        • I could believe it of her, tho, after that crap she said about victims of DV making bad choices. Yeah, bitch, their face chose to meet a fist up close and personal.

    • miss_grundy

      Jesus Christ on a piece of toast, she needs to be bitch-slapped a la Sean Bean in Ronin…fine, Editrix, with votes…or ending her television contract….

  • SnarkOff

    I am sick to my stomach. That is all.

  • JustPixelz

    Fuck the fucking NRA and their fucking faith-based belief that more guns, easier access to guns, more legal excuses for using guns … fuck them for thinking that makes us safer. We kill ourselves and each other with guns at the rate of one 9/11 attack per month. Who are the real terrorists?

    • (Hugs you) We have to organize. This can't keep happening, because I just can't take any more and neither can any of y'all.

  • DahBoner

    shouldn’t we blah blah blah libertarian horgleschlommenhurk

    Heeeey! Get a room, sheesh…

  • gullywompr

    Sorry kids. Sorry families of the kids. Sorry nation. We should have tried harder. We have failed you, and for that, I am sorry.

    • TootsStansbury

      I just stopped crying and you made the waterworks start right back up.

      • gullywompr

        Tears well shed, my dear. Sorry to you, as well.

    • We don't fail until we give up, and I for one have not given up.

      • gullywompr

        Noting but respect for you brother, and in no way intended as a slight, but dead kindergartners is a massive failure.

        I take you at your meaning, though – that now we must be resolute, and not fail any more. I'm with you.

        • Then we make good come out of it. The more tragic the event, the more good we have to get out of it, somehow. Let's not let these deaths be in vain. Let's make the names of each of these children stand for something, something greater than the NRA could even imagine we could wield.

      • Thank you. (Hugs you)

    • Don't mourn, boys, organize. We have to do something. We have to aim to stop this shit. I can't live with 18 MORE little kids on my conscience.

  • LibrarianX

    And so, more victims are sacrificed to America's insane love of guns. Nothing will change.

  • Lizzietish81

    Christ on a pogo stick, this guy is going to turn out to be one of those idiots who thinks the world is going to end next week isn't he?

    • Biff

      It already did, for 27 people, at least.

    • finallyhappy

      His mom was the kindergarden teacher – he murdered her and the her students.

  • BadKitty904

    Well done, NRA.

    • (Hugs you) It's time to crush 'em like bugs.

      • BadKitty904

        I was going to run down to the fish market this afternoon to get us some fish for our supper when the news started broadcasting this. Then I had to wait an hour cause I didn't reckon it'd be very manly to go to the store with tears running down my face. :0(

        • Oh, sweetie! I'm so sorry. Let me brush your fur.

          It fucking sucks. Those poor kidlets. They don't even know what's happening, poor little things.

          • BadKitty904

            All I can keep thinking of, over and over again, is those little kids, going to school this morning, so excited it was the last day before Christmas break; their parents at home, checking Christmas lists and wrapping presents; their grandparents, so looking forward to seeing their babies at Christmas. And now – nothing. Gone.

            I have little cousins that age, whom I dearly love. What if it had been them???

          • Don't go down that road. If you think of anyone, think of the kids who died today and what we can do to make sure that NEVER happens to your little cousins. We have to DO something, and it's not yet clear to me exactly what that something needs to be. But we CAN start with writing to our President, our Congresscritters, state and Federal, and our local "media," such as it is. Meanwhile, sign this petition and pass it on:

            If each of us does ONE thing every day to work on this issue, we'll change things. No doubt about that all. Keep a high heart, darling. We can't not participate in this struggle. (Hugs you mightily)

          • BadKitty904

            OK. OK, that's better. I agree – better to do something than just fret. Me and Joaquin have signed the petition and both of us have forwarded it to everyone we know.

            That's a start.

            And thank you.

          • (Hugs you) We're all in this together, sweetie. Thank you for being there for me whenever I've needed you.

          • BadKitty904


    • yup that's what i want. a bumper sticker that says 'the NRA: making it possible to kill 18 children the week before christmas".

      actually, i think i'm going to make that bumper sticker.

      • Good for you. The gun control groups are reporting record amounts of munniez and memberships pouring in. Perhaps the worm is finally turning.

  • poorgradstudent

    I'm sure the few people in mainstream political or media circles to express anything resembling just a moderate pro-gun control opinion after this will be accused of "exploiting a tragedy," because of course why would anyone jump to the conclusion that an unprecedented series of tragedies involving guns have anything to do with the availability of guns?

  • Monsieur_Grumpe

    Another head sick asshole with a gun.

  • not that Dewey

    This would be a great time for Nobama to suddenly morph into the dictator that the gun nuts imagine him to be and take away their guns, like they imagine he will do.

    • In theory. But those nutbags have been preparing for this and they'll take a lot of us out before they give up their arsenals, unfortunately.

  • coolhandnuke

    Today is the 32nd school shooting in the U.S since Columbine in 1999. Today Jay Carney told reporters "today is not the day to discuss gun laws."
    Today is the tomorrow the NRA worked so hard for yesterday.

    • sewollef

      Why was my comment deleted Mr/Ms administrator? It wasn't threatening or violent in any way?

      Just curious.

      • sullivanst

        The two words I know that auto-delete (rather than merely throwing into permanent administrative limbo) are tri-gger and re-tard. I wasn't here for the '08 election season, but I gather the policy was instituted after some excessive nastiness directed towards the least culpable member of the Palin family.

        • Biff

          I'd forgotten that, thanks. One lousy word, and my essay was totally dumped by admin…

    • As Sully pointed out, in context what he was saying actually translated to: you don't make policy based on a single incident, which has a strong likelihood of happening if we get carried away by our emotional desire to right this wrong immediately; and also that they were still waiting on information at the time. I'd rather not have hastily-made *policy* or *legislation,* which can affect all our lives in unpleasant ways for way too long. But we need to act on this, and act fast before these NRA ghouls find some way to spin it.

    • as i said to mr fuflans when we first heard this: my response to that from now on is going to be 'why not? it seems a perfect day to discuss the death and destruction that guns bring."

      i am so sick of this NOT being talked about.

  • dadanarchistmk2

    Let's try a different tack.

    The families of these slain children should take the Christmas presents that these children would have received if they weren't, you know, dead, and leave these presents, still wrapped, on the front lawn of NRA HQ.

  • Jughead2130

    The first muther fucker that tries to defend gun rites to me today gets a kick in the dick. I live in rural Missouri so there's going to be a dick kickin.

    • jello_mold

      A tip of the chapeau to you, sir.

    • Permit me to express my appreciation for your endeavour, and to hope that among your footwear resides a pair of stout workmen's boots with the requisite steel-capped toe. (Hugs you)

  • smitallica

    Wingnut conspiracy theory that Obama orchestrated this mass shooting to make banning guns the focus of his second term in 3, 2, 1…

    • Go over to, it's probably already started.

  • To drive a car you need a license that shows that you understand the rules of the road and that you can properly operate a vehicle. Likewise, not every car is considered roadworthy. Why can't we treat guns and gun ownership the same way?

    • sewollef

      Because. Shut up.

  • Lot_49

    If the teachers in this school carried AK-47s this kind of thing would not have happened.

    It would've been much, much worse.

  • Time for a Wonkette group hug, perhaps with a mediation chaser.

    / hug

  • Biel_ze_Bubba

    "we have the rest of the world thinking that America is stupid when it comes to gun ownership."

    The rest of the world is entirely correct. It's past time for the NRA shitheads to SHUT THE FUCK UP.

  • Lot_49

    Here's a generic manifesto we can use to save the trouble of looking for this any any subsequent shooters' literary efforts.

    To the world at large:

    1. I don't have/just lost my job.

    2. I don't have/just lost my girlfriend

    3. My father used to beat the crap out of me, even when I was good.

    4. Testosterone is flowing through me like bolts of lightning.

    5. I don't have/can't afford medical/psychiatric care for the things (1-4) that are filling me with rage and caused my boss to fire/girlfriend to break up with me.

    6. But I can buy all the guns I want. They are long and hard and white stuff comes out after you shoot them.

    In light of the foregoing, someone must die.

    Very truly yours,
    A sad, sick person

  • randomsausage

    I think we can all look forward to Congress, "The World's Greatest Deliberative Body™" having a thorough and sensible debate around gun control. Oh wait a mo…..they are all more concerned about their 100% NRA voting rating than the murder of 18 children.

    Fuck the NRA and fuck the members of congress who shill on their behalf.

  • Veritas78

    I'm waiting for the first gun nut to whine that "It's too soon to politicize the tragic deaths of young people."

    To which I answer: Yes, it is too soon. But how about the already-forgotten Yakamas Mall shootings of last week? Still too soon? Okay, how about the Chardon Ohio high school shootings of February? Have THOSE sufficiently aged for us to discuss what can be done to stop this bizarre aspect of our culture?

    I guess mass murders have to age like cheese before we can discuss concrete steps to stopping them. No problem—there's a steady stream.

    • Veritas78

      Woops! The White House beat the gun nuts to it. Jay Carney just announced that today was not the day to debate gun control.

      Of course, the calendar's getting pretty crowded with all these shootings. Maybe that's the plan. If there's a shooting every day, we can never debate gun control.

    • NRA spokesslimemold says until all the "facts" are in, they have no comment.

      So, I guess, tomorrow the spin begins.

  • savethispatient

    I remember the Dunblane massacre happening. Within a year, all private ownership of handguns was banned in the UK. Surely this is shocking enough for something to be done about gun control now.

    • sullivanst

      Yeah. Very different cultural approach to gun ownership.

      • We should still take this and run with it. I think enough people are sick and tired of this. We've reached, as our pundits like to say, a tipping point.

        • sullivanst

          Depends what you mean. If you mean a handgun ban, I don't see any chance that's going to happen, even though they are very much the preferred weapon of murderers.

          • We need a policy on multiple levels. We need to craft legislation that will stand up in court to institute rigorous testing and licensing. A ban won't work, for many reasons. Enforcing it could be costly and difficult. So, legislation on the federal level? A federal database for registration? There's several groups working in many different states – the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, for one. I'm still researching and reading, but something MUST be done, and NOW is the time to at least start. Because now is when people are most open to change and dialogue on this very fraught issue. Let me know anything and everything you find that could help, if you would be so kind. I'm off to scout out further possibilities. (Hugs you) Thanks for everything, Sully. You're a good egg, too.

          • sullivanst

            Yeah, the courts are scary. Almost enough to make one wonder if there's any chance of slipping anything into a particularly notorious black-robed homophobe's tea.,

  • LibrarianX

    "America… just a nation of two hundred million used car salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns and no qualms about killing anybody else in the world who tries to make us uncomfortable."
    Hunter S. Thompson

  • Biel_ze_Bubba

    Why do none of these maniacs ever shoot up an NRA meeting? That's about the only thing that could possibly hammer home the idiocy of their ideas.

    • I thought *you* were in charge of whispering those sweet nothings into their shell-like little ears.

      Or has your Opposite Number been telling them to kill little kids again? Or is this a really clever head-fake, and you're actually … never mind.

      • Biel_ze_Bubba

        The voices in their heads are just that – in their heads.

  • TribecaMike

    After listening to news reports about the shooting in CT today, I have to wonder when the press become so obsessed about the White House's response to such incidents.

    • I believe it all happened when one of those durned knee-grows got in, despite the knee-grow-proofin'.

  • Lot_49
  • sewollef

    Agreed, enacting far-reaching legislation in the heat of the moment isn't the best way to run a government. But Carney's comment was unnecessary. Why comment at all if the events are still unfolding?

    In fact I've just heard that people are starting to comment on the White House website. Calling for action on gun control as a matter of urgency. We Wonketteers should all write to the White House too.

    • That is ONE thing we should all do. There is also the whole petition thing. I believe if the number of signatures on a petition on the WH web site exceeds 25K, the President is required to respond. The other thing to do is to write YOUR legislators, State and Federal, the Speaker of the House, the Senate leadership (Harry Reid AND that festerin asshole Mitch McConnell), and your local news media. Then contact your local anti-gun violence agencies and see what they have on their agenda that you can help with.

      I'm investigating further. This is sickening.

  • Wile E. Quixote

    I'm reminded of what P.J. O'Rourke said, back when he was still funny, about why you should vote for conservatives. "Conservatives", he said, "are against gun control, so if we don't work out in office you can always shoot us." Seems like good advice to me.

  • hagajim

    Not much to say. Sad day, especially just a few days after Oregon shootings. Crazy times.

  • jello_mold

    The NRA needs to create some PSAs to the effect of "Kill yourself first."

    • TootsStansbury

      Ok this just made me laugh. THANKS.

  • MrsConclusion

    Oh yeah? People are killed with knives–should we make knives illegal? People are killed with cars–should we make cars illegal? People are killed by heart attacks–should we make hearts illegal? People are killed by jumping out of buildings–should we make gravity illegal?

    I run rings around you logically.

    • shelwood46

      And just like all those things, guns can be used for other stuff, too! Like…. like…. uh… knocking on doors? Carefully, really carefully. And as paperweights!

      • Bookmarks? Trellises? (only good for rifles, shotguns, etc.) Um … doorstops? (but if they ever slip, look out, people, it's dancin' time! Do the hotfoot shuffle!)

  • not that Dewey

    I don't like Fridays.

  • FNMA

    And today, Michigan was steaming forward with making it legal to carry concealed firearms at churches, day care centers and schools.

    This country has lost its fucking mind.

    • TribecaMike

      Damn gun-toting church-going toddler lobby.

    • Sporting events, too. Because carrying a concealed weapon into a Lions game is obvs. the Right Thing To Do.

      • Well, at least you'll be able to shut up that one fat fuck who's always yelling.

    • miss_grundy

      Michiganians who are pushing this legislation should be kicked in the crotch repeatedly…with votes, Editrix…

    • Biel_ze_Bubba

      How about labor demonstrations in front of the state capitol building? That would be a great place for concealed firearms.

  • oenspiek

    The USA is number one in guns per capita, by a gigantic margin, and number one in school shootings.

    If there's a connection between these facts, apparently ten thousand tortoises cannot unravel it.

  • Mojopo

    Heartbroken. I feel so selfish for shedding tears, because I haven't lost anyone. I have nothing but sympathy for the (perhaps) dozens of parents in CT today.

  • Antispandex

    Rebecca, you know we love you and all, but that picture is just over the line. What about the anti torture laws and stuff?

  • "A waiting period of 20 days for each page of legislation."

    If all the GOP congresspersons would just stand up and say, "I don't want the federal government to do anything other than funnel money to the military and declare war on people," it would save us all sooooooooo much time.

    I would also accept, "We hate the government… but we like the health plan and people sucking up to us, so we're going to hang out here a while." Just a little honesty would be nice.

  • The shooter has been identified as Ryan Lanza, 24, a worker in the New Jersey correctional system

    And apparently, he killed one of his parents this morning in Jersey.

    Also, he supported Romney.

    • shelwood46

      Oh god, it looks like his mom was a kindergarten teacher, and it was her classroom he primarily shot up. Fuck.

      24: prime age for schizophrenia to kick in.

      • Fuck the civil rights of the mentally ill, it's time to start locking people up again, goddammit. What's this kid's death toll now, 30?

        • shelwood46

          So far: 20 children and 6 adults at the school, one at mother's house, the shooter… and his girlfriend and another of his friends are missing. Unconfirmed reports that the shooter's brother was arrested for aiding and/or as second shooter, so there may be more to this than mental illness.

    • More info coming in. He killed his mother with her own gun. All the guns recovered at the site were registered in her name. There were three. His mother was murdered in her own home. She might have shared her home with him. He then drove her car to the school to kill the kids. The shooter was *ADAM* Lanza. Ryan Lanza is being questioned right now.

  • LibertyLover

    The shooter, Ryan Lanza, killed his father this morning in Jersey and mis mother worked at this school. She is one of the deceased now as well.

  • LibertyLover

    When does this stop?

  • An_Outhouse

    You know what its a good day for Rand Paul to do? Off himself. I don't care how, votes, no votes, whatever.

  • miss_grundy

    BBC News is reporting this live on its website and it appears that the shooter killed his father at home and then went to the school to kill his mother and other adults and 18 children.

    • finallyhappy

      I am turning off the TV and the internet now.

  • GeneralLerong

    I hope Bloomberg is pouring rivers of cash into

    Mayors Against Illegal Guns

  • I don't mean to sound insensitive here, but the NRA will have their balls in a vice in about 3 hours. Not just for the obvious, but if you know that part of Conn, there is an ungodly amount of money, power and influence.
    There's about to be a brawl.

    • I cried, but now I'm really fucking angry.

      • Let's take that anger straight to the NRA and our legislators, sweetie. This must stop.

    • (Hugs you) Thanks you just made me feel LOADS better.

    • wow you think so? that would be a good piece of news from this unspeakable act.

  • Beowoof

    They don't think we are stupid, they know we are stupid. And it was proven twice this week. Gun nuts with their Clint Eastwood fantasies are despicable, selfish blow hard asshole, brain dead motherfucking assholes. Sorry, I am alternating between anger and sadness for those who were killed today.

  • GeneralLerong

    This is what's defined as a "legal" gun?

    No Wonder Our Police Forces Are Turning Into Military Units

    OK, I was gonna wait till lunch to start drinking, but not anymore.

  • miss_grundy

    The President just spoke and had to stop and wipe tears from his eyes. I hope right-minded people get behind him and work on passing a ban on automatic rifles and tightening up our gun laws and if the gun nuts go crazy they can commit suicide.

  • Jeebus. Just… oh for fuck's sake.

  • It's just too damn bad those eighteen kids didn't have $8 million, oh, wait, I mean, $25 million to spend in this year's past election. Maybe their lives would have been worth something if they could.

  • From the Guardian:

    […]But it does not honour the dead to insist that there must be no room in that space for rational thought and critical appraisal. Indeed, such situations demand both. For one can only account for so many "isolated" incidents before it becomes necessary to start dealing with a pattern.

    It is simply not plausible to understand events in Connecticut this Friday without having a conversation about guns in a country where more than 84 people a day are killed with guns, and more than twice that number are injured with them.

  • mustangsavvy

    Fucking. Hell. I can't even today. This is…there are no words.

    • (Hugs you) Hold tight to yourself, cry as much as you need to, but as soon as you can, come join the fight to make sure this never happens again.

  • miss_grundy

    The presser announced there were 20 children and 6 adults plus the shooter as the total number of individuals killed. The school is a K through 4 grade. This makes me want to kick something….

    • Up to 22 kids now. Two more died as they were being transported to hospital. What kind of fucking fuck does this?

  • HistoriCat

    I'm ready to move to Canada. I just can't stand living surrounded by homicidal lunatics any more. This country is on the downward spiral and it seems determined to make an absolute mess of everything in it during that process. The group psychosis which has wide swathes of the populace in its grip isn't going to be changed – it will have to be broken.

    • sullivanst

      Statistics are probably the last thing to be talking about on a day like today, but the truth is despite the rash of spree killings, the total murder rate has actually been on a sustained decline for many years.

      • No, statistics are an excellent distraction from the all-too-painful reality of crying little children running for their lives.

  • viennawoods13

    Canada is where the shooting at my school happened in the '70's. Nowhere is safe.

  • viennawoods13

    Sadly, our current Conservative Prime Minister got rid of a gun registry which required long-gun owners to register their weapons and pay a small fee. It was felt to be unfair to innocent hunters and farmers to have to do this when they aren't the ones doing the killing. Yeah, because a guy has never gone nuts and shot his wife and kids with his rifle (he has).

  • Sweetie, we're already AT the "multiple mass murder attempts PER DAY" stage. You could go to Singapore or Malaysia. It's the death penalty for carrying/owning/being found with a gun or even a single piece of ammunition. But those countries have their own problems.

  • Biel_ze_Bubba

    I think I've figured out what Wayne Fuckhead LaPierre is afraid of: if the mentally ill aren't allowed to have guns, he'll have to give up his.

  • NinjaCat_Baba

    Oh, Rand Paul, please tell that knee-slapping joke in front of the parents of children who where murdered by that crazed wacko non-human piece of meat in Connecticut.

  • ttommyunger

    Rand and Sean, sitting in a tree, F. U. C. K. I. N. G. That is all.

  • Ok, I know that Congress is filled with idiots but does it really take 20 days to read one page of a bill?

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