hush now ladies

Lady Idiot Takes On Feminism

I call this one, "Blogging."So there’s this website, see, called Thought Catalog. It is a lovely place popular with the kiddos that promises to “probably make you more interesting,” a promise that has been pointed out many times by many people, right before they insult the website, on account of its awfulness. This is one of those times.

You see, though their About page says they are “nobrow and nonpartisan… Culture is our politics,” one of the Cataloggers of Thought, Karie Kardasheman, decided to take on feminism, which, she says, is “going out of style.” Since we Wonket folk are so, so concerned with what is Stylish, we thought it best to pay attention.

We first learn, disturbingly, that “there is a very basic rhetorical problem with feminism — and it stems from terminology and semantics.” Then, onto the first brilliant semantic argument:

1. It’s a loaded term. A reeeally loaded term.

SCIENCE! What’s this mean, this “reeeally loaded term” term?

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…while it is unfair for misogynists to stereotype feminists as perpetually angry man-haters, there have certainly been some rather extreme ideas associated with popular strands of feminist thought.

Ok, so, first point: It’s not cool that misogynists call feminists man-haters, but some feminists… hate men. So, you know, like, feminism is bad. That’s really the whole first point. There is also something about vagina muscles. Gross.

What’s next? We’re learning, we’re learning.

2. Men experience gender discrimination and violence as well.

Ohhh. Gooot it. One of the main reasons that “feminism is a lousy term that disservices its own foundational principles of gender equity” is that sometimes people are not so nice to men. Hear that, feminists? You’ve been standing up for the wrong gender this whole time.

Men can, for instance, be subject to false accusations of child molestation and rape.

Wait… THEY CAN?! This is a DISASTER. Well, we might as well stop accusing people of things. Also, feminists: You should probably stop fighting for sexual assault education and prevention; some people are sometimes wrongly accused of rape, and that is definitely a bigger problem that PEOPLE BEING RAPED.

(Also, not only can men be accused of rape, turns out they can be raped themselves. And when they aren’t taken seriously, that’s harmful patriarchal beliefs doing the talking. Men are supposed to be strong! Women are supposed to be sexually submissive! Why won’t you fight patriarchy, feminists?)

Feminism does not really capture any of that side of the reality. In fact, it obscures this fact and diminishes the visibility of those out there who face real and serious consequences of gender discrimination but who don’t identify as women.

Translation: Pointing out gender discrimination against women obscures gender discrimination against everybody else! STOP HOGGING THE LIMELIGHT, FEMINISTS. You were so busy standing up for things that you didn’t realize you were standing up in front of the men.

Never you mind the positive effects for everybody in the challenging of traditional gender roles and systemic inequalities — feminism, obviously, only helps women. It’s obvious, so long as you don’t ask a dad who wants custody of his children because dudes can be caretakers just like dudettes, or a little boy who doesn’t really like G.I. Joes and Tonka trucks, or the transgender man who’s tired of people asking him what he is. Those people and their conflicts with an unfair gender binary don’t count. Feminism has “fem” in the name. (Also, don’t forget: It’s out of style.)

3. The transgender community experiences a significant proportion of today’s gender-based social, political, and occupational troubles.

Ah, so we do care about the transgender community. Neat. It’s too bad there aren’t any feminists who care about the transgender community. There aren’t, right? Otherwise this point would sound pretttty silly.

Transgender individuals have faced a litany of harassment, discrimination and violence, from refusal of healthcare services, to denial of housing, to higher rates of violence…

Individuals who are transgender or non-gender conformist face some of the greatest obstacles to obtaining civil rights, social equity, and basic levels of respect.

There are many bad things: Children are starving in Africa. The hope-and-change president is killing people with flying killer robots. Justin Bieber has two perfumes. But to see that there are many bad things does not mean it’s wrong to fix only some.

Women are not the only group being discriminated against, sure. But nobody gives Habitat For Humanity any guff for not helping to cure prostate cancer — and until women stop getting blamed for their own abuse, and until employers seeking to dictate female employees’ health decisions are met with anything other than derision, and until congressmen like Rep. Todd Akin can demonstrate at least a basic understanding of the biology they are so wrathfully trying to legislate, there will always be a place for feminism.

Otherwise, who will oppress the men?

[Thought Catalog]

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189 comments

    1. Barbara_

      Chet is there anything I can get for you before the game? A sandwich, cold beer, a turducken? I'll be ironing shirts if you need me.

      1. Chet Kincaid_

        Thanks, Toots. I'll be out in the garage, buildin' things and killin' things, until the game comes on. Did you pick up a 2013 cheesecake calendar for my pegboard?

        1. glasspusher

          Some of the younger guys where I work put up a cheesecake calendar in the machine shop- paintings of women from the '40s. Damn I like me some cheesecake. Nobody's complained, I didn't put it up…but damn.

          1. HateMachine

            There's a cheesecake calendar up in my office, too. And, um, is it a thing that whoever's operating the calendar will stick another picture up there if the girl-of-the-month isn't his type? Because there's been a girl or three this year that I hadn't minded looking at (at all) who apparently didn't make the cut.

      1. Dudleydidwrong

        Lovely, just lovely. Should be shown in all high school sex ed classes–assuming that high schools still have sex education classes.

        They still have high schools, don't they?

  1. flipdraw

    When, oh when will someone say something asinine about what is the deal with Armenians and the kutesy name alliteration? Oh wait, done and done!

  2. fartknocker

    On her website I found the ultimate accessory and that was a vagina wig. I had no idea of what a vagina wig was until about 2 minutes ago but I must say its an accessory I may need to purchase for my significant other.

    1. finallyhappy

      I was going to load a photo of the crocheted cervix I made but I'm not sure how to load photos here- and it would show that I could probably make a VJJ wig- if I had any idea what it is(no, I am not going to look at the website)

      1. gullywompr

        My friend knitted an unshaved vag. It's a real conversation piece. She said that found the pattern online somewhere.

  3. Chet Kincaid_

    Here is the sum total of our knowledge of this deep thinker, per her Thought Catalog bio:

    karie kardasheman once got TOTALLY hit on by colin farrell. but then she had to go because her ex was texting her like a zillion times, and they had some stuff they had to work out. and then when she got back, colin had left. i swear.

    She spelled "Kardashian" wrong, also.

  4. memzilla

    Hmm. So by this logic, lower speed limits for 18 wheel trucks are pointless and counterproductive , because they fail to address the special needs and problems of 4 wheel automobiles, so we should do away with speed limits.

    1. corthylio

      I don't really understand too much about speed limit policies, but I really like puppies. They are so soft and furry and they have that sweet puppy breath! Squee!

  5. christianmuslin

    Exactly how will this improve my ability to get a date, experience more sexytime or prepare for the fiscal cliff?

    1. kittensdontlie

      All they promised was more interesting. Like at a restaurant, after mentioning your newly acquired feminist views, you will look interesting wearing your date's mango gazpacho soup.

  6. chascates

    I can't await until web sites such as this can be enjoyed via 3-D virtual reality. Or possibly mind melds.

    1. cheetojeebus

      After that sort of Mind Meld one would need a whole barrel of whiskey to cleanse the palate, so to speak….

    1. Negropolis

      To know everything is to know nothing.

      Buddha said something like that, didn't he? If he didn't, it totally sounds like something he should have said.

    1. finallyhappy

      so speaking of Duck Dynasty – I briefly watched last week- because I thought it was the show about actual duck families(that is a show but I'm not sure where)

  7. BarackMyWorld

    You refuse to support an idea that has benefited you directly and you claim to share the same values and goals of because of stereotypes about other people who support the same cause promoted by people whose opinions you shouldnt care about?

    Got it.

    1. not that Dewey

      It's the anti-feminist equivalent of the climate deniers' "Oh yeah? Well, one time, in the 70s, one person wrote something about global cooling. So there."

        1. YouFail4eva

          Nope, I'm pretty sure that was right. I think it was when the GPS told us to make a right at Niagra Falls and we went right over the damn thing.

          1. Biff

            Does this mean we'll all be issued barrels in which we are to tumble over the fiscal waterfall cliff? Cool!

  8. gullywompr

    Feminism completely fails to address the issue of global warming. Doesn't say dick about it actually, and that's just unfair to other-than-women.

    1. Negropolis

      And, since it "doesn't say dick about it" it's also sexist against men, because you should say dick about everything.

  9. memzilla

    You know, I guess there was a point to all of her pisswhiffling prose, but I failed to see it as it was camouflaged behind all of the "but this and also that" equivalencies.

    Here's a tip for anyone who writes or wants to write: Strunk and White.

    IOW: GET DIRECTLY TO THE POINT. STOP WAFFLING AROUND.

    Put all of your equivalencies and exceptions and "Offer Not Good In Sectors R or N" disclaimers into one paragraph and put that graph in the second position, or better yet, way at the bottom as a footnote, and then GET THE F**K ON WITH WHAT YOU WANT TO SAY.

    Jeebus H. Blue-Penciling Christ On A Thesaurus, people, it's Not. That. Hard. To. Do.

    If you have a point to make, make it, and make me believe it with a sustained chain of logic that is uninterrupted with On The Other Hands. Otherwise, you're making me believe you're just after a word-count.

    And wingtards, one of the things you fail to notice when you look at a site like Wonkette is that we spend at least as much time making fun of poorly written wingtardity (ex: Sarah Palin) as we do of the actual content of the wingtardity (ex: Sarah Palin).

    OK? Any questions? Fine. Now get off of my lawn and take your raggedy-ass excuse for wordsmithing off with you, it'll leave dents in the grass.

  10. Blueb4sinrise

    Here's the thing: Some people only like crunchy dill pickles. I'm okay with that. However, some of the best dill pickles I've ever had have been kind of mushy. Some were enjoyed at good deli's, and it even goes way back when Grammy made her own in big ceramic crocks. DEAL WITH IT!

    Wait, wut?

    1. finallyhappy

      really, I thought mushy meant they were bad-although i guess most brined things are safe(or not- I don't know)

  11. zerosumgame0005

    while most of your article was funny and had a point, the idea of dismissing someone being falsely accused of rape or child molestation just because a little girl gets caught wanking it to internet porn by daddy IS A FUCKING DISASTER for the guy. Your seeming amusement at the idea is not just offensive it's fucking stupid on your part.

    1. gullywompr

      Yes, this Wonkette article does not really capture any of that side of the reality. In fact, it obscures this fact and diminishes the visibility of those out there who face real and serious consequences of gender discrimination but who don’t identify as women.

      1. zerosumgame0005

        it does not just not really capture it, she and rather a lot of you assholes make light of the situation. perhaps you feel (without any actual proof) it is such a low number that you can get away with it. Of course it is highly amusing for some random guy to be plucked off the street tossed in jail have his life ruined and raped in jail and possibly killed on the word of a liar. highly amusing for sociopaths anyway. reptards and baggers like you are scum.

        1. gullywompr

          Just so you know – your keyboard has two shift keys.

          Kinda stupid of me to attack you for not capitalizing letters, ain't it? 'Cause that really has nothing at all to do with what you're really trying to say, does it? But that was the one thing I noticed about what you typed, so I'm going to go on about it for a while, whether it's relevant or not.

    2. sullivanst

      Your missing the point that using the small number of false accusations as a reason to villainize the much larger number of genuine victims IS A MUCH BIGGER FUCKING DISASTER not just for "the" girl, but in fact all human beings.

      1. zerosumgame0005

        so your ASSumption of the statistical number of times it happens justifies mocking the guys who are sent to prison and abused there? all I can say about that is fuck you, fuck your daddy and fuck your mommy for bringing such an asshole into the light of day.

    3. njstore

      I hear your anger.
      It is wrong to falsely accuse someone of rape.
      It is wrong to threaten someone of being a pedophile when they are not.
      It is wrong to rape and wrong to dismiss rape.
      Talking about rape makes everyone uncomfortable.
      And I know this all too well.

    4. Negropolis

      Somebody sounds like they've had a personal experience with this…

      And for that I am sorry, truly, I am. But, go form a more coherent thought and criticism (which is impossible, because nothing written condoned what you're accusing this blog of in the least bit) and come back to us, okay? Thanks. Bye.

  12. Goonemeritus

    While it is unfair to equate all Conservatives thought with the tenets of National Socialism. It must be said many on the right look most at home in brown shirts and boots.

    1. oenspiek

      While, in a strictly 'factual' sense, this may be true, it ignores all those Conservatives who look most at home in black leather.

    1. YouFail4eva

      Which is faster? Rush making a dash for the Oxycontin buffet or the average tea-bagger who thinks he has a clever sign as he writes it down?

  13. mbobier

    "…there have certainly been some rather extreme ideas associated with popular strands of feminist thought." Well, I'm having some rather extreme ideas about this website, but you don't see me making a federal case of it.

    1. Mojopo

      I'm waiting, because any minute now someone is going to charge commiegirl with being an angry feminist for the comments she left, and that's when I'm going to start pelting them with the piles of shit in my cage.

    2. Wile E. Quixote

      Wait, if you point out that most women have vaginas are you a sexist? Or am I a sexist if I point out that you pointed out that most women have vaginas? How does this work again?

  14. PsycWench

    Ah yes, a repackaging of the familiar message from men's rights blogs: we WOULD become concerned with your silly female issues but see, there are men whose lives aren't perfect and that's really more important.

  15. Pragmatist2

    Suggesting that feminism is defective because it does not deal with problems specific to males is like suggesting that philosophy is defective because it does nto deal with diseases among penguins.

  16. SayItWithWookies

    Her first two points — that some people stereotype feminists as shrill and that other people experience gender discrimination as well, are completely non-germane. And yes, feminists (as she says in point #3) should be concerned with overall issues of gender equality and discrimination. But then again, if it weren't for feminists bringing up the idea of gender equality, most Americans would never have heard of transgender, bisexual or other categories of human sexuality.

    And take it from a socialist atheist vegetarian — some people are gonna get annoyed regardless of what you call yourself. Yes, the term feminism doesn't encompass the whole scope of modern gender equality issues — but they wouldn't exist if it weren't for feminism.

  17. snowpointsecret

    "We shouldn't help any women because a few women take it way too far sometimes and other people can be discriminated against too!"

    I think she graduated with honors from the Rick Santorum school of fuzzy logic.

  18. Callyson

    feminism, which, she says, is “going out of style.”

    Yeah, haters have been saying feminism is going out of style for decades (centuries?) now. Funny how it keeps making a comeback…

    /bitch

  19. Mojopo

    As a woman in my mid-forties, I've had the privilege of enjoying a world much bigger than the one a previous generation of women lived in. I was a child of the 70s, and I'm close enough to see the way the world was before gender equality began to heat up in the 60s, but I am uncomfortably close to the generation of women after me, who have no working concept of feminism and think it's politically incorrect or destructive. They think we are post-feminism, or that the function of feminist groups is to hate men. People like Karie Kardasheman can't believe that we can champion women's rights and not hate anyone at the same time, because she can't hold more than one thought in her head at a time. She can't appreciate the value of the future because she cannot comprehend what the struggle has been like… because she lives in a better world. Things are good enough for people like her. That's the thing that pisses me off the most. They imply that things are good enough by saying we've gone too far. Ignorance alone is enough to make me boil over, but I can't tolerate underachievers. Isn't that what this is about – that we don't need more feminism? It's yucky and complicated, so let's pile on a lot of garbage that doesn't make any logical sense instead of sorting out the challenges of being a woman on planet Earth.

    Karie Kardasheman should make me a goddamned pot pie.

  20. cousinitt

    Can I just say that not only do I not understand the "thought" piece in question, I don't get that entire website. It makes my head hurt. How they talk about the awesomeness of their website makes me want to poke my own eyes out so that I never again read anything so disturbing. But, I think I liked it better when it was called Reader's Digest and I was 10.

  21. Callyson

    OK, I gave in to morbid curiosity and went to the link (don't bother, it froze my computer.) For the piece de resistance:

    Yes, to reiterate, modern versions of feminist theory and activism do include considerations for men and the LGBT community. But let’s face the fact that the term feminism is archaic, misleading, and inaccurate for the contemporary situation we are in.

    Feminism is embracing the issues I think it should include…so let's get rid of it, Perfectly logical.

    /FFS

    1. sullivanst

      Archaic? How is a 50-year-old word is archaic? Misleading? No, just misunderstood by idiots who misunderstand almost everything. Inaccurate for the contemporary situation we are in? Not for as long as the pay gap exist and the forced-birth movement controls a chamber of Congress and numerous state legislatures.

  22. LibertyLover

    You were so busy standing up for things that you didn’t realize you were standing up in front of the men.

    Uhhh… I'm pretty short, can't they just see over me?

  23. LibertyLover

    You menz would treat us womenz with more respect if we were packin' guns everywherez we went.

  24. carlgt1

    It all sounds a lot like the "hate unions" meme, i.e. throw out the whole notion (of unions, feminism, affirmative action, Civil Rights?) because some pompous windbag declares they've "outlived their usefulness" etc.

    1. Mojopo

      Exactly. They're buying into the whole bag of nonsense. The only equivalent I could think of, off the top of my head, is the way the word "socialism" has been redefined by powerful people to mean something evil and destructive.

  25. ElPinche

    Is a feminism over? Please someone tell my wife. She makes more money than me and thinks she can boss me around and makes me sleep on the wet spot. I'm sick of washing dishes and folding mutherfucking clothes. I don't even get a measly reach around anymore. Please, Karie Kardashian, plz send the memo to my wife (however you risk Terri materializing through digital ether and choking your cunt neck).

  26. Mojopo

    I paid attention to the comments at Thought Catalog for longer than they deserved. Guess what thought I left with? About 3-4 people there need to be flushed down the toilet, and that I want to spray paint the word "feminism" on their cars. Just to piss them off, when they crawl out of the sewer and look for their ride home.

  27. jello_mold

    So if you talk about women's issues then you're automatically discriminating against non-vagina-ed people by definition.

    Does this thought make my ass look fat?

  28. poorgradstudent

    Dammit the article didn't misquote Andrea Dworkin* so my post-feminist bingo card is useless!

    *It always amuses me that post/anti-feminists always end up misquoting Dworkin, especially since the crap she actually wrote was crazy enough.

      1. fuflans

        mere hyperbole and ancient habits (my mother's canadian and i spent my misspent youth teasing her about it…).

        but to be fair, if we didn't have canada, we wouldn't know how many nice things we can't have. hell they even got rid of a bagger mayor with no fuss and bother. we'll be saddled with our congressional baggers for the next decade probably.

  29. sudden_eyes

    Time for Caitlin Moran (when is it ever not?):

    “What is feminism? Simply the belief that women should be as free as men, however nuts, dim, deluded, badly dressed, fat, receding, lazy and smug they might be. Are you a feminist? Hahaha. Of course you are.”

  30. Mojopo

    Commiegirl, I am sure it was wholesome. The gorilla was your Richard Parker, and please don't tell me otherwise. Oh please.

    1. commiegirl99

      Well now I must tell you the whole story.So I was at the Santa Barbara Zoo with my dear friend and her baby daughter, and this magnificent ape (heh) was just … gazing at me. And he was fucking noble and handsome, and I was struck still. We were actually in love. Romantically in love. Then, still holding my eye, he took a shit in his hand and held it to his nose, real sexy-like, and I wasn't in love with him anymore, and I left really fast.

      1. Mojopo

        I used to fall for those shit-in-their hands types, too.

        That is a brilliant story, and I doubt I'll forget it.

  31. Negropolis

    Is a Kardasheman like a Jewish Armenian Kadashian or something?

    And, all those words, and for what? Do you know how many sadwiches she could have made in the time it took her to write that piece?

  32. Negropolis

    Is this one of those smart beliefs that states you must do everything, and since no one or one group can't do everything, that means that they shouldn't do anything, at all? Got it. I've heard this far too often before, just trade out "feminism" for "NAACP", (fill in the blank of minority organization/movement, but not things like ethnic societies (Lithuanian Halls, Irish organizations) because those things are totally different).

    Shorter: Wasn't America a better place when people just knew their places?

  33. Negropolis

    Feminism? How gauche. Everyone knows that today's "it" thing is the reincarnation of the He-Man's Woman Hater Club.

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