Someone with a clear stake in the discussionWe were worried that you, the Wonkette Reader, might not have quite enough rage coursing through you today, and so here is the story, via Dan Savage at The Stranger, of Savita Halappanavar, a 31-year-old woman who died in Galway, Ireland, last month after doctors decided that, although she was already miscarrying and there was no chance her 17-week-old fetus could survive, she didn’t quite qualify to have her life saved because the dying fetus still had a heartbeat. Ireland’s abortion law only allows the procedure when the mother’s life is in danger, just like the “moderate” position that Mitt Romney proposed, and which “pro-life” purists (including the 2012 GOP platform) oppose because, as Congressman Joe Walsh asserted in his final debate before losing his bid for reelection, “pro-life” people believe

“There’s no such exception as life of the mother. And as far as health of the mother, same thing, with advances in science and technology, health of the mother has become a tool for abortions anytime under any reason.”

And since they are quite sure of this, it is assuredly so.

We would like to invite Rep. Walsh to explain how “advances in science and technology” mean that none of the following, from the Irish Times, was possible in 2012:

Her husband, Praveen Halappanavar (34), an engineer at Boston Scientific in Galway, says she asked several times over a three-day period that the pregnancy be terminated. He says that, having been told she was miscarrying, and after one day in severe pain, Ms Halappanavar asked for a medical termination.

This was refused, he says, because the foetal heartbeat was still present and they were told, “this is a Catholic country”.

She spent a further 2½ days “in agony” until the foetal heartbeat stopped.

Speaking from India, where he had taken his wife’s body for cremation and a memorial service, Mr. Halappanavar provided additional details of how Ireland’s compassionate exception to a complete ban on abortions works in reality:

“The doctor told us the cervix was fully dilated, amniotic fluid was leaking and unfortunately the baby wouldn’t survive.” The doctor, he says, said it should be over in a few hours. There followed three days, he says, of the foetal heartbeat being checked several times a day.

“Savita was really in agony. She was very upset, but she accepted she was losing the baby. When the consultant came on the ward rounds on Monday morning Savita asked if they could not save the baby could they induce to end the pregnancy. The consultant said, ‘As long as there is a foetal heartbeat we can’t do anything’.

“Again on Tuesday morning, the ward rounds and the same discussion. The consultant said it was the law, that this is a Catholic country. Savita [a Hindu] said: ‘I am neither Irish nor Catholic’ but they said there was nothing they could do.

Irish health authorities are investigating the circumstances of Ms. Halappanavar’s death. As Dan Savage notes, “Savita Halappanavar would still be alive if she had the right to make decisions about her own health care.”

In other news that also suggests that it may be more useful to base health policy on science rather than on what some Christianists really really want to believe is true, io9 has a story about what may be the first comprehensive long-term study comparing the health and quality of life outcomes of women who have had abortions with the experiences of women who sought abortions but were, for various reasons, unable to get them. The five-year Turnaway Study, now in its fourth year, looks at women’s “mental health, physical health and socioeconomic outcomes of receiving an abortion compared to carrying an unwanted pregnancy to term.”

Among the study’s preliminary findings, as publicized on their Facebook page:

We have found that there are no mental health consequences of abortion compared to carrying an unwanted pregnancy to term. There are other interesting findings: even later abortion is safer than childbirth and women who carried an unwanted pregnancy to term are three times more likely than women who receive an abortion to be below the poverty level two years later.

Needless to say, this will have no effect whatsoever on the propaganda about the debilitating guilt suffered by everyone who’s ever even thought of having an abortion.

The study also found that women who have abortions are more likely to be able to escape abusive relationships, where women denied abortions were more likely to remain dependent on an abusive partner:

Turnaways were more likely to stay in a relationship with an abusive partner than women who got abortions. A year after being denied an abortion, 7% reported an incident of domestic violence in the last six months. 3% of women who received abortions reported domestic violence in the same time period. [Lead researcher Diana Greene] Foster emphasized that this wasn’t because the turnaways were more likely to get into abusive relationships. It was simply that getting abortions allowed women to get out of such relationships more easily. So it’s likely that these numbers actually reflect a dropoff in domestic violence for women who get abortions, rather than a rise among turnaways.

The Turnaway Study, incidentally, is funded solely through donations, which, along with its needing a Facebook page, may be a comment on the state of public health research funding in 2012 U.S. Amercia. If you’d like to contribute, here’s the link.

But in a better country, goddammit, they wouldn’t need to beg. Then again, in a better country, health care policy would be at least tangentially related to medical science, and an idiot who thinks that embryology teaches “lies from the pit of Hell” wouldn’t serve on the House Science Committee.

This is what a “pro-life” country looks like, and it’s horrifying.

[TheStranger / Irish Times / io9]

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  • Too sad to snark on.

    • nounverb911

      I'm Snarkless in Seattle.

      • I even had the perfect Bono joke, but I just couldn't do it.

    • WhatTheHolyHeck

      No snark. Snarkless.

      If those medical practitioners escape from this guiltless, then I'll lose another chunk of faith in humanity. When the woman's life is in danger and the fetus is going to die, you save the woman, and fuck the law. You save your patient and then make your legal case a national issue, if it comes to that. "Legally I have to let you die pointlessly and in pain" is totally unacceptable.

      • CindynEncinitas

        First, do no harm, right? To pro-lifers, that means do no harm to the babies. Fuck the mothers. I wonder how many other children these people had who now have no mother.

    • comrad_darkness

      Turns out to also be a terrible idea to have a baby in Spain's Catholic hospitals
      >Spanish society has been shaken by allegations of the theft and trafficking of thousands of babies by nuns, priests and doctors, which started under Franco and continued up to the 1990s.

  • BaldarTFlagass

    "Kill me, I'm Irish."

    • SuspectedDemocrat

      More like, "Kill me, you're Catholic."

      • Mittens Howell, III

        I'm Irish too, but don't kill me. Well, at least kill BalderT first ferchrisakes!

  • I'd like to perform an abortion on Joe Walsh right about now.

    • Doktor Zoom

      Already completed, with votes

    • An_Outhouse

      how about Pope Benedict then?

    • Negropolis


  • joshleefolsom

    Please, the "woman" NOT the "mother." She's not a mother before she gives birth, she is a pregnant woman.

    • Crank_Tango

      Way to rub it in.

    • slithytoves

      Speaks a man.

      • CommieLibunatic

        Isn't that the only opinion that matters when it comes to a woman's reproductive systems? That's what I get from the GOP, anyway.

      • Naked_Bunny

        Well, if you prefer to use the anti-abortion side's framing, go ahead. Call pregnant women "mothers", call fetuses "babies", and call abortions "murder". Have fun.

        • slithytoves

          I think I'll let the woman/mother do the framing for herself. I won't impose any particular view upon her. But go ahead and imagine the subject is crystal clear.

    • comrad_darkness

      I think if you have a mass of festering septic tissue in your uterus, you probably don't even qualify anymore as "pregnant." Semantics matter.

  • Shypixel

    Look, how simple can we make this?

    Life begins at rape.

    How do you libtards not get this?

    • Oblios_Cap

      "Illegitimate" rape only.

    • Esteev

      Nirvana was pro-life.

  • OzoneTom

    And this in a country where only 10% attend church regularly.

  • CivilMcMannerly

    God kills in mysterious ways.

    • Lascauxcaveman

      Naw, it's pretty straightforward, actually.

    • bobbert

      Okay, there's a Bono joke.

  • That's odd. A corporation from Ireland aborted my company last month. One hundred and fifty fetuses (jobs) were lost.

  • SorosBot

    And yet some idiots still look to the Catholic church as a voice of moral authority. This is the most vile, evil organization in the world; it is ridiculous to listen to them on morality when everything they preach is completely against human morality and decency.

    • Shellwith2Ls

      That's why I left. It should be completely dismantled and thrown in the trash.

  • LibertyLover

    I read this elsewhere. I don't have it in me to snark about this.
    It is just so very sad. And one of the reasons….
    Safe, Legal, Rare. and Nonjudgmental.

    • I see divorce the same way — it should be legal, rare, and nonjudgmental. No one is pro-divorce; I am sad when I hear of friends getting a divorce, but I certainly don't want it to be restricted. And it's not a coincidence that divorce was one of the primary issues of the woman's rights movement in the 19th century — divorce laws, like abortion laws, are meant to suppress women.

  • Crank_Tango

    Ugh, I really don't feel like getting into some pissing match, throwing around the Irish stereotypes, shitting on the land of my forebears, so I am just gonna go grab a drink.

    • Doktor Zoom

      I wrote it sober, but with residual Irish-Catholic self loathing!

      • CindynEncinitas

        If it was a horse or a sheep, they would have killed the fetus, like, right now to save the mother. That's just common sense. I'm Catholic, too, Doc, but thankfully I'm Scottish. Phew!

  • BaldarTFlagass

    The ubiquity of Bushmill's Irish Whiskey in the Emerald Isle has obviously given rise to an entire population suffering from fetal alcohol syndrome.

    • sullivanst

      Bushmill's Irish Whiskey – not distilled in the Republic of Ireland. Jameson, on the other hand, is, and is responsible for roughly 75% of total Irish Whiskey production.

      But given Irish whiskey's resurgance has been a recent thing after decades of decline, living in Scotch's shadow despite inventing the drink (or at least the name for it), if you want to account for the current crop of Irish adults, blame beer.

      • LeAlbatross

        Red Breast forever! The Hell with Jameson's bottle of candy-corn…

      • BaldarTFlagass

        "not distilled in the Republic of Ireland."
        Yeah, it was a guess. I'm a Scotch man myself (Balvenie Double Wood).

        • sullivanst

          Yeah, me too (Lagavulin, Talisker, or whatever is cheap at the time as I'm not that fussy now I have two kids in college). The distillery that produces Bushmill's is in "the six counties"

  • cousinitt

    This time, Jesus AND the FSM are really crying.

  • Lizzietish81

    Fuck these Holier than thou assholes. Fuck every sadistic fucktard who ever voted for abortion restrictions, ever showed up to a clinic to protest, ever "prayed for the babies", ever blocked sex ed, birth control and abortion services.

    Fuck these selfish, reality denying, women hating nimrods.

    • CommieLibunatic

      And you can bet your bottom dollar that if it were men who gave birth instead of women, Trojan would be federally subsidized and Arizona would elect the Wild Cherry Twister as its official state condom.

      • NorthStarSpanx

        Lizzie – are you talking about Catholic Country or the Writers at The Walking Dead who forced a brutal c-section and certain death on Lori last weekend?

        This is what health-care would look like under a Fundy Administration.

  • On the other hand, the study is showing what Freakanomics pointed out that the cost of unwanted kids puts a strain on social services as most of them grow up unwanted, unloved and uncared for.

    It puts the low tax freaks (who bitch endlessly about parasites and monies going to the undeserving aka poors especially non whites) right in the cervix of the pro life god squad and visa versa.

    Couldn't happen to a greater group of idiots.

    • commiegirl99

      No, "most" kids who were unwanted are not "unloved." Poor and underparented possibly, but that doesn't mean their parents don't love em. Come on.

      • Lizzietish81

        Yeah that really made it all better.

      • Fair enough.

      • Negropolis

        I know that it makes one feel warm and fuzzy and sane to believe that even unwanted children are loved, but that's simply not always the case. I know of plenty of unplanned and unwanted children who are also unloved. There are such things as unloved children (by their parents or guardians), and there are a lot more of them out there than people feel comfortable in believing.

  • Lascauxcaveman

    Screw these Catholic countires.

    Thank G_d there's only one of them. Well, two if you want to count that poncy little neighborhood in Rome.

    • kissawookiee

      The women of El Salvador would like a word.

      • Lascauxcaveman

        *Not intended to be a factual statement.

        Yeah it looks like the whole of Latin America doesn't really give a shit about women's rights. Also, there is pretty much the whole Islamic world. Ugh.

  • LibrarianX

    Doesn't the church prefer their rape victims to be male and pre-pubescent? No messy pregnancies…

    • Naked_Bunny

      The Roman Catholic Church is an equal opportunity life-destroyer.

  • docterry6973

    Too sad and infuriating for jokes. She couldn't outlive a dying fetus, so she had to die too. Perhaps Ryan would like to offer his perspective on this tragic absolute moral necessity.

  • Oops!

  • coolhandnuke

    A Pogues dirge is all I can add to this sad.

  • kissawookiee

    Erin Go… *sigh* I can't. I just can't.

  • edgydrifter

    Remember when Sinead O'Connor started that shitstorm for her outrageous criticism of the Catholic church? Yeah. Boy, she sure was waaaaaay out of line, wasn't she?

    • Doktor Zoom

      First they condemn you and eventually you win?

    • Naked_Bunny

      She tore a photo, dude! Of the Pope! On TV, in the middle of the night! God was crying all day Sunday.

      • NorthStarSpanx

        That was the guttsiest thing I had ever seen. What a warrior.

        • CindynEncinitas

          Shaving her head was pretty ballsy, also, too. Unless she had lice. We may never know…

      • Negropolis

        And they destroyed her entire career for it, and turned her into a joke.

  • Goonemeritus

    “We would like to invite Rep. Walsh to explain how “advances in science and technology” mean that none of the following,”

    I think you must mean the Former Rep. Walsh.

    • Doktor Zoom

      Still in office until Jan 3, 2013 (and so, unfortunately, able to vote on "fiscal cliff" legislation), when Tammy Duckworth will be sworn in.

  • I hope this story gets widely aired, because – well, because!

    • CindynEncinitas

      Because of my idiot fucking sister and all of the idiots at her huge idiot church, that's why.

  • Oblios_Cap

    Ah, the One Church, spreading Jebus's love and making everybody miserable. As usual. I thought the Old Country was moving away from the Catholic Church. Not fast enough, obviously.

    What's a nice girl like Sativa Hinduing in a Catholic country anyways?

    Praveen, Sativa? Is he relatived to cannabis?

  • My dad's mom died in childbirth in a Catholic hospital in 1930, when he was 2 years old (the child died, too). My mom told me that my granddad blamed the hospital, and never went to church again. Halappanavar's death is just another in a long tradition of Catholic murder.

    • Lascauxcaveman

      Yeah, I guess this is what you get when you build your entire world view on stuff that just ain't so. Hopefully all future religions will be built on stuff that is so.

      Maybe science really is a religion. One that will unite us all. That is, after we get past those horrific, genocidal wars between the biologists and the astronomers. Those are going to be ugly.

      • CommieLibunatic

        One worldview gave us the Dark Ages, and another gave us both nuclear power and microelectronics.

  • Mittens Howell, III

    Pro-life (adj)

    Definition: Not pro life.

    • corthylio


  • kissawookiee

    Just in case anybody missed it, this is Paul Ryan and Marco Rubio and Todd Akin and Richard Mourdock and Mike Huckabee and THE WHOLE REST OF THE BLOODY GOP LOT's plan for America writ large.

  • gullywompr

    Unsnarkable. Sorry, women in Ireland.

    • Fare la Volpe

      And coming soon to women in America!

  • larrykat

    I know hundreds of Irish people – not one of them approves of their archaic abortion laws… maybe I'm running with the wrong crowd or something.

    • The Curia in Rome isn't that far from the Guardian Council in Tehran when it comes to womenz.

    • Shellwith2Ls

      More like the right crowd

  • TribecaMike

    What are they thinking? If this continues, they won't have any children to rape.

  • SnarkoMarx

    Everyone to the right of center knows that life begins at conception and ends at execution.

  • Jason

    Thank you for covering this story.

    Irish politicians have refused to act on abortion rights for the last 20 years despite an Irish Supreme Court in 1992 that said legislation was needed in this area.

    Political parties of all stripes have been too cowardly to act and this has resulted in this poor woman's death.

    Hopefully enough concern and outrage will be generated to cause them to act. Starting from today protests/vigils have been taking place in Dublin, Cork and Galway.

    • i heard it last night on the world radio program as well. it's getting some traction even here and we're not known for, you know, furriners.

  • When John Jameson flooded that whole town to keep the fire away from his whiskey and "all Ireland agreed, catastrophe averted" that was stupid. This, this is completely fucked up.

    P.S. I like how "fucked up" is good to go but "Re7arded" gets nuked by the administrator.

    • Naked_Bunny

      I like it, too.

    • Biel_ze_Bubba

      Ever since somebody made fun of Palin's fucked up kid, you aren't allowed to say that on Wonkette.

  • < this comment deleted by Poster out of respect for Wonkette believers >

  • CommieLibunatic

    And you can bet your bottom Amero that, if the mother and fetus survived this, these Pro-Life dudes would tell them to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.

  • TribecaMike

    No tickee, no Magdalene laundry.

    • VaWyo

      That was the saddest movie I have ever seen.

      • TribecaMike

        Almost unbearable, and from what I've read they left out some material to keep it from being totally unbearable to audiences.

      • emmelemm

        What movie?

        ETA: Never mind, let me Google that for myself.

    • MaxNeanderthal

      My uncle's first wife went through the laundry experience as a teenaged mother in Ireland. Oddly, she never attended church…funny, that.

  • HRH_Maddie

    Ugh, so depressing. I'm signing off to go eat an Irish 7-course meal: a 6-pack and a potato.

    • emmelemm

      OK, I laughed. It's wrong, I know.

  • PubOption

    This is what happens when the woman is too sick to "visit relatives" in England.

  • Texan_Bulldog

    OT but Barry just bitch-slapped Walnuts & his girlfriend Ham Biscuits over Susan Rice. It was a sight to behold. And naturally they will run to their boyfriend David Gregory on Sunday to snivel.

    • DCBloom

      A thing of beauty, that was. I bet ol' Lindsey had to go find the nearest fainting couch. Bout time we saw a little of that angry black man thing the Rs keep talking about.

  • emmelemm

    Dammit, Zoom, I had already read this story this morning. Now I have double the rage. Do you want me to stroke out?

    • deep breath, deep breath, lean back, more deep breaths

      Now focus that rage on 2014 and picking up another Congressional seat here in Western Washington. Vancouver needz some help.

      • emmelemm

        Agreed, agreed, agreed.

      • Doktor Zoom

        "Don't boo, vote!"

  • Goonemeritus

    To be fair to Ireland, this is what comes from mixing politics and religion in otherwise pretty nice little country would have been a better conclusion.

  • HRH_Maddie

    She can have that abortion now, I guess.*

    *sorry, too soon, I know.

    • Aborting the living? Fine.

      Aborting the potentially living? That's a problem.

  • MissTaken


    • CommieLibunatic

      Seconding that.

      • SubhumanVarmint


        Just another reason why I won't be setting another foot in a church, Catholic or otherwise.

  • LeAlbatross

    Some Irish words to describe the staff:
    Abhloir: Buffoon
    Gamal: Lout
    Leibde: Slob

    Coirpeach: criminal

    • Biel_ze_Bubba

      Don't forget the especially apt "langer" (n: shithead, asshole)

      • LeAlbatross

        Yes, but alas, that;'s not Irish Gaelic (Gaelige).

    • jello_mold

      How about "co-defendants"?

      • LeAlbatross

        Cuisi/Cosantoir. for co-, ummm…fosta?

  • MissTaken

    This whole idea that a heartbeat determines life is fucking stupid. My grandma's heart stopped this morning for good, but thanks to Alzheimer's, she's been otherwise dead for years. This archaic definition of life needs a swift kick in the ass.

    • Doktor Zoom

      And I'm sorry for your loss…both times.

    • Crank_Tango

      Sorry to hear that!!

    • My condolences, MissT. Both of my parents died long before their hearts stopped. I can understand your hurt.

      • MissTaken

        Thank you! When I spoke to my mom who has taken care of her for several years now she sounded relieved and strangely happy.

        • sullivanst

          Horrible disease, Alzheimer's, as SB said. When my father-in-law was diagnosed, my wife's cousin (who'd watched her own mother fade away over many years and then for a few more continue to breathe as a reminder that that body used to be home to a person) asked if he had any other health conditions. When my wife said no, she said "Bummer".

          A miserable thing it is, to wish your loved ones dead, but that's what Alzheimer's does.

        • corthylio

          I'm so sorry for your loss. I suspect losing her to Alzheimer's was much more difficult for all of you than the official death when her heart stopped.

    • SorosBot

      It's awful, at both ends of the scale; and Alzheimer's is just a horrible disease, taking away everything that makes a person themselves. Ugh.

    • hugs & sympathies

      / musta clicked the wrong clickie – as the first one got posted below

    • DCBloom

      My condolences. I've seen that firsthand in my family. No words.

    • HouseOfTheBlueLights

      I'm so sorry for your loss! (Both this one and the loss to Alzheimers)

    • Mittens Howell, III

      I'm sorry MissT,

      My Grandma went the same way, alzheimer's is just painful for everybody concerned.

    • i'm so sorry miss. my grandmother too died after years with alzheimer's (she had to be put in a home as she beat up my granddad apparently).

      i drink heavily so i will die before i get old.

  • VaWyo

    Don't they have national healthcare in Ireland? I'm sure that is the reason she died. Or at least that is what Team Rape would say.

    This is very very tragic and unnecessary. And it is a reminder to us that Catholic hospitals should not be allowed to treat women. I recently asked my mother why she felt it was safe to have her children at Holy Cross and she said she didn't know they would have allowed her to die. But then again she didn't know a single thing about the catholic faith.

    • sullivanst

      Yeah, sure, why not, hospital acquired infections don't exist at all in American hospitals.

  • If only she had been raped by a priest, then her body would have known what to do and this wouldn't be a problem. I guess that is what she gets for being a non-believer.

    • BigSkullF*ckingDog

      Yeah right. Like a priest would ever rape a full grown woman.

  • Hug & sympathies

  • elviouslyqueer

    No offense, Catholic ladies, but aren't you the least bit bothered by the fact that any say-so you have over your bodies is guided by the moral principles of a bunch of white guys wearing dresses and running around an overdecorated Renaissance-era mausoleum trying to resurrect a dead language?

    I'm just asking, is why.

    • sullivanst

      Yeah, most Catholic ladies I know (especially my wife) nod politely while old men sworn to celibacy waffle on about women's bodies, but pay them no heed when deciding what they would like to do with said bodies.

  • Oblios_Cap

    "Those who toil and live in want all their lives are taught by religion to be submissive and patient while here on earth, and to take comfort in the hope of a heavenly reward. But those who live by the labour of others are taught by religion to practise charity while on earth, thus offering them a very cheap way of justifying their entire existence as exploiters and selling them at a moderate price tickets to well-being in heaven. Religion is opium for the people. Religion is a sort of spiritual booze, in which the slaves of capital drown their human image, their demand for a life more or less worthy of man."

    • corthylio


  • mrbubb

    Were I her husband, I would go postal on that entire staff.

  • Fucking Catholics. (I was baptized Catholic on the insistence of a grandmother, but have always been atheist–as young as 9 years old I knew it was all complete bullshit and have never sought any organized religion henceforth).
    I had an abortion in 2003 and never had any regrets (<1 month pregnant) . I'm thankful for the existence of separation of church and state in the U.S., as little and forever challenged as it may be.
    Ms. Halappanavar's unnecessary death absolutely disgusts me.

  • This is why religious fuckheads have no business writing laws in a civilized country, as argument from authority has no place in a rational society. Let that be a lesson to you Bishop Romney.

  • SigDeFlyinMonky

    Well, the Nuns on a Bus are Catholic. Its just that the hierarchy needs the real church, the members, the congregations to tell them STFU. My mother, God rest her soul, out of principal, never set foot in the new L.A. Cathedral. After she yelled at a nun infront of my brother's eighth grade class she called gramps and said she yelled at a nun. He said "Good, they need more of that."

  • frrolfe

    as an irish person i am deeply ashamed and disgusted that this poor woman was treated the way she was.

    25 years ago, during the 1st abortion referendum in this country, we were all assured, by the no campaigners, that the woman's life was always the first priority. "theologians" were wheeled out to explain that it wasnt "sinful" if the child's life was lost because of medical treatment to save the mother.

    25 years on the catholic church in ireland is a negligible and despised influence in this country but the politicians running this failed state havent the guts to implement what the eu court of human rights ruled on years ago.

    apologies to all people who thought that progress was universal.

  • bloggingbalkanistan

    When will they stop calling themselves 'pro life' and call themselves what they actually are: pro fetus. This story is just incredibly horrible. The only emotion stronger than my anger at the system which allowed this woman to die, is my immense sympathy for her husband, family and friends.

    For those who refused to allow this woman to get an abortion in order to save her own life, well now she can never have any children. Pro-life my ass.

  • neiltheblaze

    It wasn't just potato famines that drove the Irish to anywhere else.

  • jello_mold

    and somehow I am absolutely confident she received no pain medication.

    beyond rage at this sadistic torture and murder.

  • sullivanst

    "Two deaths good, one death bad"
    — Pro lifers

  • cognachas4paws

    This is so sad. She didn't have to die.

  • For the record, my Dubliner friends are furious about this. Nobody in Ireland under the age of 70 gives a rat's about the Church anymore.

    • Negropolis

      It'd be nice if the general consensus was reflected in the law, no? I keep hearing about how everyone in Ireland is horrified by this, but surely this isn't the first time this has happened, and just as surely it's apparent that the Irish haven't been electing folks serious enough about human rights to challenge tradition.

      The sad truth is that folks are going to be angry there for about a week, and then go back to throwing up their heads exclaiming "So sad, but that's just the way things are."

      • It's a small country, with the news cycles to match. During my last visit, the top story on the national news one night was, I shit you not, about a cow blocking a country road. This will remain story #1 in the Irish media for weeks, if not months, unless of course somebody finds a pot of gold.

  • frrolfe

    just to let you all know, women phoning talk radio today explaining how they were allowed to lie in agony for days, if not weeks, while the doctors tried to decide whether pain-killers might harm the dying foetus. many of these women had conceived thru multiple ivf processes so it can be assumed they wanted to have children.

  • jello_mold

    where do you think a person could send condolences?

  • PubOption

    Repulsive Pro-Life opinion on the case.

    • Doktor Zoom

      Unspeakably evil.

    • Shellwith2Ls

      I'm not going to read that, I'm angry enough as it is.

  • TootsStansbury

    I didn't get too ragey; I was too busy crying. So sad.

  • teebob2000


  • DahBoner

    You got any Irish in ya? Whoops…

  • teebob2000

    She did have a choice about her healthcare: she made the mistake of choosing to live in Ireland.

  • glasspusher

    Fuck you, Roman Catholic Church and your dipshit followers.

    There, I said it.

    • CommieDad

      While I strongly disagree with the Catholic Church on many things, including their approach to abortion and the law, I think that any priest who is educated, and trained in Catholic moral reasoning, would find the actions of the Doctors in this case despicable. Part of what makes this so fucking sad is that everyone but the most extreme of irrational idiots would agree that this is the case were abortion is not just right, but morally imperative. This is exactly why laws against abortion are foolish.

      Ireland, you don't have to legalize abortion. It would be nice, but that's your fucking call. You do need, however, to let medical decisions be made by doctors. Any thing else is anti-life.

      • glasspusher

        I agree with you in large part, sir, but any reasonable, well educated person would not, IMHO, give any credence to the Vatican's views on contraception, abortion or women. They are still treating women as second class citizens at best.

        • CommieDad

          True. It is odd, as I was taught to reason by Jesuits and came to very different conclusions on these issues. I still, even having read the argument, do not understand how you can reject both condoms and abortion. I say if you reject one, you are all but endorsing the other. Also, Jesus had (at least one) woman follower (according to the Bible). So what's up with women not being priests?

          • glasspusher

            You know, let's face it. It isn't the intelligent, reasonable ones of any faith or persuasion I'm worried about. It's the extremist, stupid, misguided, bigoted ones who take their “spiritual” leaders' pronouncements and twist them into their hateful world view- and clearly the physicians at this hospital are such types. That's why the people at the top need to realize what kind of hate they are tacitly condoning with their proclamations…and I often think they are consciously doing it now. The Roman Catholic church has not been on the forefront of people's rights for a looong time. They have a lot of fucking nerve playing the victim and telling people what to do when they can't keep their own house in order.Yeah, the Jesuits. On a lighter note, my father was a very spiritual man (who had no trouble with contraception, unlike my mother), who went to a Jesuit college (University of Scranton). My mom said that he told her he would love it if one of his sons became a Jesuit, and my mom replied “Don't hold your breath”.

  • CommieDad

    I am opposed to abortion. As I get older, however, my position has evolved. For several years I have said that abortion should be legal because making it illegal would not reduce abortions, would not change a culture that believes that the destruction of life is good birth control, and would pose a significant risk to the lives of pregnant women.

    Over the last few months, in light of the types of things said by many on the right, and the clear lake of compassion for women, my position has evolved. I think, like many, think that abortion should be safe, legal, and rare. For the state to put limits on a woman's right to make her own medical decisions is cruel, and does the most harm to the most people. Exactly the opposite of the goal of promoting life.

    Nothing demonstrates the problem of this type of perverse reasoning than this story. This type of disrespect for science, for outcomes, and for women is inexcusable. Congratulations Ireland. In your attempt to prevent the "murder" of a potential life, you have only succeeded in murdering a healthy woman.

    • jello_mold

      no one's for abortion. can't we agree to that? I resent the implication and it's a rw talking point.

      I wish we could retain some good old fashioned American virtues, like minding your own fucking business. (not speaking to you directly cause I'm sure you do)

      • CommieDad

        I apologize. I am sorry to imply this, and I accept your criticism.

      • Negropolis

        I won't agree with that. To me the whole "no one is for abortion" is just playing into their hands. It implies right from the start that there is something immoral and shameful about this medical procedure. If you're not for abortion, you're not for medicine.

        Now, generally, I'm for as spending as little time in a hospital or doctor's office as one can, so I guess in that sense I agree with the "safe, legal, and rare" line of thinking, but I'm not for the shaming of this medical procedure, not even a little.

        • jello_mold

          we're distracted by abortion and discuss it in the rw terms. the rw doesn't care about abortion, they care about controlling women. they'll never support pay equality for women even though it would lessen abortion – women won't have children they can't support – because they can't control women's choices when we have economic power.

          there are places where abortion is the main form of birth control. like, Russia. Imagine having no access to birth control but abortion. So instead of having one abortion because your main prevention failed, having up to 10 or 12. that sounds pretty fucking oppressive to me. so having abortion access per se is no paradise. it's a convenience for men.

          the real issue is whether a woman's right to determine her destiny is blocked, which includes choosing among a range of technologies to avoid or terminate a pregnancy.

          no one aspires to have an abortion but when we want one we expect to receive medical treatment in a safe environment and treated with dignity. Being required to provide a reason to anyone is where the shaming comes from. that's why the 'exceptions' are such bs – I don't need to rationalize to some stranger – and get their OK! – the path I choose to take in life.

          men ought to take control of their own fertility if they care so goddamn much about abortion. bank their sperm, get a vasectomy and educate other men. technology is better re reversing vasectomies; the male pill is on its way too, also. lobby for that, guys.

  • Redgyal

    The Irish need to remember how CATHOLIC of a country they are in other things too.

  • Clearly, this young lady simply didn't try hard enough to turn these lethal pregnancy complication lemons into lemonade.

  • SuspectedDemocrat

    And yet, every time it comes up for a vote, the Irish people decide to keep abortion laws the way they are.

    I find this extremely difficult to snark to.

  • bobbert

    Fuck this.

    • TribecaMike

      "Totally fucked" in Latin is perfututum.

  • BZ1

    I'm out of snark; this is simply appalling.

  • horsedreamer_1

    Now, the Indians & the English have a common enemy.

  • ritingon

    Zoom, you're just trying to make sure no righteous anger fades just because the elections are over. right?

  • TootsStansbury

    I can't let this one go. I know this sort of thing and worse, occurs every day all over the world but the cold barbarity is really laid out there in this story. I find this to be too tragic to be a political cudgel but I am tempted to send the original story to the RNC with a THIS IS WHAT YOU WANT YOU BARBARIC FUCKERS???!!! But I won't. I have have alternated between having a stubborn lump in my throat and wanting to bash these anti-choice idiots up side the head; with an actual 2 x 4 or my heavy copper skillet, not votes. That "Doctor" has blood on his hands and should be shamed. I sent this story to my daughter as well.

    Fuck this. There's my eYawp in the electronic wilderness.

    Sympathies to the poor man who lost his wife.

    • GeneralLerong

      Yeah. I hear ya.

      Why aren't these fools being prosecuted for murder, or manslaughter at the very least?

      Epic Fit of Fury

      Perhaps now I have the perfect sign to hoist before the old catholic geese parading around near our Planned Parenthood clinic:


  • Grokenstein

    Remember how up in arms the Troo-Meriken Teabaggers got because NEGRO NAZI DEATH PANELS?

    Also, I'm curious to hear what Pops Ratburger has to say on the matter. Will it be, "Abortion's evil, end of story, shut up and keep giving us your money or else," or will it be, "Sure, sad and all, but it was just a damn woman, what's the fuss about?"

  • Biel_ze_Bubba

    Coming soon to a red state near you!

    • TribecaMike

      No kidding.

  • comrad_darkness

    Take a long hard look, America. This is what the Republican platform dictates for us. This. Women are vessels left to the whims of gods, not life worth protecting.

  • ttommyunger

    I heard some proud-feeling Irish prig on PBS tonight slamming the Pro Mother's Life Spokesperson as promoting "abortion on demand". The worst kind of evil is that which masquerades as righteous.

  • Negropolis

    Very, very hard to snark about this. It's just plan sad.

    We makes tons of fun about the U.S., and often times deservedly so, but I have to laugh when I hear of the wonders of "Europe", a continent that includes places like Ireland, Spain and Italy who are as backwards on social issues as any state in the Deep South, and no amount of high-speed trains and historic architecture changes that.

  • Baba_NinjaCat12

    Q — What's the chance the story get's aired where the Catholic Church is recognized as a state church.
    A — Does it snow in hell?

  • Cleopatriot

    The Turnaway Project is 20% funded with about 40 days to go in their appeal.

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