Spotlight on Civility

A Children’s Treasury of Butthurt Reactions To Joe Biden’s Debate Demeanor

Why couldn't Mean Old Handsome Joe just be nice?Say, did you notice that Joe Biden was just a little interrupty in the VP Debate? We are given to understand that Old Handsome Joe’s performance made a bit of a stir among some of the more sensitive souls on the right side of the political spectrum. (You see, when a Republican puts on an angry threat display, it proves his “alpha male” status. When a Dem does something similar, it is the end of civility as we know it, and poo must be flung.)

The Wingosphere is experiencing such a tsunami of tsuris over Mean Joe that we can only skim the surface in this post; no doubt we will miss some of your personal favorites. So it goes. Let’s see whose delicate sensibilities have been ruffled by the Veep-Hulk:

  • Dick Morris: The toe-sucking publisher of the (possibly) worst political cartoons on the web told serious legitimate journalism source Newsmax that Biden seemed like a “windbag” and a “demagogue,” whose demeanor called into question his very fitness for office:

    “I think that the dominant impression that comes across is that he should not be a heartbeat away from the presidency — a combination of just totally inappropriate smiling while Ryan was talking — and interrupting, the almost heckling that went on in the debate”

    Related video
  • Smiling, chuckling, and interrupting! What has this world come to? Why can’t our modern-day Vice Presidents have the gravitas of a John Nance “not worth a bucket of warm piss” Garner?

  • Sean Hannity, Eric Bolling, and Greg Gutfeld: The preeminent intellectual heavyweights of Fox News speculated that Biden was drunk during the debate. On Twitter, Hannity wondered “Is there is bourbon in Uncle Joe’s glass?” Bolling tweetsified “Mr. VP Is Interrupting And Laughing.. Is He Still Drinking?” and Gutfeld took a more metaphorical approach:

    “Biden is the drunk at the bar, Martha [Raddatz] is the unhappy bartender, and [Paul] Ryan is the unfortunate salesman caught in the middle”

    This is pretty hilarious, because Joe Biden is Irish, and we all know what hilarious drunkards they are! Oh, also, a 2008 New York Times story stated that Biden, whose grandmother’s family was ravaged by alcoholism, does not touch the stuff:

    “There are enough alcoholics in my family,” he said last month as he sipped cranberry juice on a train ride from Washington to Wilmington.

    But still, Irish drunks are pretty goddamn funny!

  • Rich Lowry: The editor of the National Review, a popular etiquette manual, also compared the debate to “being trapped in a bar next to a know-it-all drunk,” although he at least acknowledged that Biden doesn’t drink. Lowry added that

    Vice President Biden’s mom and dad taught him many things–but not manners….Ryan made a favorable impression. Biden reinforced the impression that he’s a blowhard! Ryan helped his ticket. Biden hurt his.

  • Monica Crowley: The eminently polite radio talker — who demurely entweetened this funny comedy joke on the announcement of Sandra Fluke’s upcoming marriage: “To a man?” — was very upset by the Vice President’s unseemly hijinx:

    On substance, I think Paul Ryan and Joe Biden debated to a draw. But on style, Biden lost the debate with his smug, rude, obnoxious, arrogant, and condescending attitude toward Ryan.

    Doesn’t Joe Biden know that Fox News owns the rights to those adjectives?

  • Gretchen Carlson: The co-host of Fox & Friends, who helped Geraldo Rivera worry about a “lesbian cabal” running the Department of Homeland Security, has discovered that Joe Biden’s terrible conduct was very very insulting to her as a female lady person, while as a Midwesterner, she thinks maybe Paul Ryan was too polite and deferential:

    I mean, just speaking as a woman for a minute. And I really want to know the difference in the gender opinion this morning. Was this more offensive to women, was it more offensive to men, was it not offensive to either? I… and maybe women have felt this more often. I just could not believe how disrespectful he was. And, being from the Midwest as Paul Ryan is as well, there is such a thing as Midwestern sensibilities and Midwestern politeness, and “oh yeah, you go in front of me.” That’s what Paul Ryan was doing.

    Carlson followed up with this ladylike observation about how Biden made her feel, as a woman: “Do you ever feel that way where you just want to deck somebody?” (We are willing to grant Ms. Carlson a tiny bit of latitude, as we suspect she suffers from Stockholm Syndrome as a result of working with super-douche Brian Kilmeade.)

In short, Joe Biden’s impoliteness really rubbed a lot of people who he won’t give interviews to the wrong way.

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About the author

Doktor Zoom lives in Boise, Idaho. He acquired his pseudonym after being differently punctual to too many meetings. He is not a medical doctor, although he has a real PhD (in Rhetoric and Composition).

View all articles by Doktor Zoom

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283 comments

    1. Pat_Pending

      Hell, after the Fox News Makeup Crew is done, who can tell? Maybe they're ALL trannies and genderfucks…

    2. rickmaci

      He does a pretty good woman but can only hold it for 60 seconds? He needz to spend moar time practicing walking in the high heels.

    1. Negropolis

      Yep. They are just jealous that Joe did to Ryan what Mitt did to the president, last week, and that Joe did it better and with the truth.

    1. tessiee

      I'm not familiar with the term "Marburg".
      Is a rusty, Marburg-encrusted chainsaw better or worse than a rusty, Ebola-encrusted chainsaw?

      1. YasserArraFeck

        Bags – either the brown paper ones filled with small denomination banknotes, or the brown hairless ones attached to equally brown underage rentboys

  1. Lascauxcaveman

    “Biden is the drunk at the bar, Martha [Raddatz] is the unhappy bartender,

    Waitaminute, one of our astute Wonkette commenteers last night was saying it was Martha that was drunk.

    Maybe they all went out for a few before the debate and Ryan just turned out to be the mopey, boring drunk. He did get a little word-salady there for awhile, didn't he?

      1. Generation[redacted]

        "Biden's friends held Ryan down on the pinball machine while…"

        Okay, now I need a shower.

      1. elviouslyqueer

        I have a basset hound that gives me much the same look as was on Ryan's puss. But the difference here is that I would never ever in a million years envision myself kicking my basset hound square between the nostrils.*

        *With votes!

  2. Generation[redacted]

    Paul Ryan obviously scored points on substance when he said, "I guarantee the math adds up." I aced all my math classes simply by using that line on my teachers.

    I was also impressed with his astute observation about how Iran has accelerated its nuclear program: "The centrifuges are spinning faster." Wait, CENTRIFUGES DO NOT WORK THAT WAY.

    Don't laugh. It's rude.

  3. WhatTheHeck

    Joe made a lot of republicans take a shower after the debate because they felt violated by his machismo.

  4. Texan_Bulldog

    Did Rich Lowry see starbursts when he saw Paulie's working out pics?

    A broken clock is right more often Rich Lowry is.

  5. YouFail4eva

    So Obama has a bad debate performance, everybody loses their shit. Ryan gets his ass handed to him, and the wingnuts say Biden was too aggressive.

    That the way this shit be going down?

    1. Gleem McShineys

      Well, you remember how all the liberals were like OBAMA TOTALLY WON THAT DEBATE, because of his politeness?

      Yeah, me neither. Wingnuts either, I suspect.

      But of course, being honest with yourself is the first thing you can never do when you're on the version of P90-x exercise program for denying reality.

  6. Pat_Pending

    Or he could have just hit his head repeatedly with the desk every time Ryan politely spewed more Malarkey.

    1. mrblifil

      Seriously did he name his other kids after stuff he saw in the obstetrician's office? "Here are my other kids Forceps, Clamp, Speculum and Little Man in the Boat, because it looks just like a little man in a boat."

  7. BigSkullF*ckingDog

    Considering that most of what Ryan said was actually laughable, Bidens response seemed just about right to me.

      1. BigSkullF*ckingDog

        I know! I had to use those whipy things. What are they called?

        BTW. For a second I thought you were talking about the bird shit on my car and I was getting creeped out.

      2. UW8316154

        I have to pick up new wiper blades, it's been that long since we've had rain. Nice to get some, though. Supposed to storm around there this weekend.

    1. Negropolis

      Exact same though I had. It was about time someone accurately displayed what millions of Americans have been feeling for months, now, and it's that most of the shit they spew is so ridiculous and offensive as to not be believed if we hadn't heard it with our own ears.

      That Joe was even able to grin and bear that shit this long is nothing short of amazing. Legitimate rape, some girls are easy to rape, outlawing birth control, blowing a whole in the budget and then saying it won't add to the deficit…crazy, crazy offensive shit. The GOP isn't a party, it's a cult of unreality.

  8. Crank_Tango

    Well if old Vinegar Joe was too mean, and Chronic'd Nobama was too nice, maybe there is a happy medium the right wing won't cry about, like maybe Hillary Clinton?

    1. Negropolis

      You remember what they did to Hillary in the 90's, and to her during her presidential run before it was apparent that Obama would be a real challenger, right?

      1. Crank_Tango

        Wait, so you're saying that they would probably be assholes no matter what?

        And maybe Barry should just give up on the bipartisan bullshit and just go to the mattresses? Or am I reading to much into it…

        1. Negropolis

          Two words: Vince Foster. We'd still be hearing about him had she been made president and White Water and everything else. And, then for history's sake, they'd have tried to impeach her just like they did to her husband, you know, for shits-and-giggles.

  9. no_gravity

    Typical rethuggies, last week they were all beating their chests and a whoopin' and a hollerin' over Romney's performance as an ass and now this week they're saying Ryan was just being polite rather than just someone who had no answers. Or I should say, full of malarky, (especially since I grew up hearing that word and that I was full of it).

  10. Generation[redacted]

    You know who else accused their opponent of being disrespectful, smug, rude, obnoxious, arrogant, and condescending?

    1. YouFail4eva

      That one dude who was running for treasurer in Kansas, only it turned out he was registered to vote in Nebraska and was a city councilmen in Louisiana?

  11. ManchuCandidate

    All the crying and pissing and moaning just shows how badly Mean Joe Biden pounded the shit out of Ryan.

    The right-tards know it. Their boy get beaten like the way they wished they could beat a poor person.

  12. Toomush_Infer

    So, when Obama was a tad off his game, MSNBC had a shitfit about his "terrible performance", and when Ryan sucked, FOX stands up for the poor, benighted boor who shouldn't have had to take all that smiley shellacking? I'm an oldz, but I'm ready to climb in the ring with the entire cage match of FAUX FAUKEES…..

    1. Negropolis

      This is the difference between liberals and conservatives. Quite frankly, on the optics of things, I wish we'd be more incredulous, sometime.

    1. NellCote71

      But was arrogant to think he was smarter than all the other kids because his mother told him he was. One of those his-grades-are-bad-because-he's-bored moms.

  13. SayItWithWookies

    Awww — the poor bullying mongoloids who routinely compare President Obama to Hitler were getting pushed around last night. I hope they all live in states where whiny sissies are allowed to marry each other so they all have a shoulder to cry on.

    1. SheriffRoscoe

      That's why I love Joe so much. He got in the bully's face and laughed and kicked his ass, all without losing that twinkle in his eye, for even a second.

      1. BadKitty904

        Truly. He def. had that charming, jolly "Fuck you, ya little pissant" thing goin' on…and Ryan obviously knew it.

      1. NellCote71

        He's like a rat swimming away from a sinking ship (tip of the hat to Ralph Yarborough, describing John Connelly's defection to the GOP, back in the day).

    1. natl_[redacted]_cmdr

      Because he's a fucking coward, that's why.

      Also, he won't debate his Congressional opponent. Because he's a fucking coward.

    2. viennawoods13

      You probably don't want to go there. Smilin' Joe ran for the Senate (and won, natch) in 2008.

  14. Respitetini

    Lol. Butthurt Republicans are funniest when they're butthurt about being beaten at their own game.

  15. Stellaa

    You know, the GOP boys bluster, scream and attack. When they get their own medicine the cry and whine. They ask for protection and look for solace in blaming the others. Victimhood anyone?

    It seems to me that Ryan and Romney share a smirk. They are always smirking. When did big toothy smiles become a negative and smirks become a sign of civility?

  16. ManchuCandidate

    Ryan was supposed to be the intellectual of the bunch. The bright shining light. The beacon of intelligence in the GOPer ranks.

    The fact that a man considered by the pundit class to be a goofball intellectually beat the shit out of Ryan and handed him his head, balls AND ass on national TV says a lot more about the GOPers than it does about Biden's rudeness.

    This batch of GOPers are full of cognitive dissonance and mostly fucking stupid.

    1. PsycWench

      "Ryan was supposed to be the intellectual of the bunch. The bright shining light. The beacon of intelligence in the GOPer ranks. "

      How sad is that?

    2. qwerty42

      …The fact that a man considered by the pundit class to be a goofball …
      Was Joe on the Senate Intelligence Committee or the Senate Foreign Relations? I don't know why anyone would think Ryan would be able to go against him on foreign policy. As for our "pundit class", well …

      1. miss_grundy

        I think Joe served on the Foreign Relations committee but I may be wrong. But he knows more about what is happening in the world than Eddie Munster.

    3. fuflans

      this is what we have been saying over and over: who killed all the smart people and handed paul ryan that crown?

      seriously, dude pedals recycled ayn rand and 1980s era talking points.

      and has NEVER had to defend himself the way he did last night.

      1. bobbert

        "this is what we have been saying over and over: who killed all the smart people and handed paul ryan that crown? "

        Um. Republicans.

        Scattered and incoherent as Ryan is (which is a whole bunch of scattered and incoherent), who else among the Repos has even the simulation of intellectual heft? Crisco? Jebbie? That no-name in Virginia? MITT????

        The US of A is in deep shit, because the party that commands the allegiance of almost half of the voters is headed (and has been headed for at least thirty years) by people with the intellectual depth of a spirochete. Unfortunately, you don't have to be smart to be able to tell what people want to hear, and , in fact, not being smart is probably an advantage when you tell them a bunch of self-contradictory shit (it keeps your head from exploding).

        Lyin' Ryan has pissed me off for years, especially because I grew up in Wisconsin. As Clinton pointed out, Ryan's failures are not in exotic mathematics, they are in simple fucking arithmetic. The dickhead has managed to parlay his slightly weird- looking and soft-spoken persona into being perceived as a "serious" legislator, despite the fact that he doesn't have a fucking clue about pretty much anything.

        Gaaah.

    1. miss_grundy

      I say punch Gretchen the Wretched. It's about time these jerks at Faux News have to use their health insurance for plastic surgery.

  17. SexySmurf

    OT News just keeps getting better for Obama. First, everybody got their jobs back, then Biden took off his rings and pimp slapped Eddie Munster, and now Mittens has the vote of Lindsay Lohan (assuming she's still alive in November).

    1. zumpie

      Mitty has the uber coveted hasbeen, substance abusing teen starlet/porn queen demo allz locked up! Rumour has it. Tara Reid's gonna start opening his rallies!

    2. rickmaci

      When you have the Lindsay Lohan/Donald Trump voter demo you really have a pretty good idea of where your electoral future is going.

    3. Mittaplasia

      Speaking of Ms. Lohan, a little drunken ditty comes to mind:

      One is my limit
      Two at the most
      Three I'm under the table
      and Four, I'm under the host.

    4. Lascauxcaveman

      Assuming LiLo is registered* in NY, CA (or maybe NJ?), she can vote for Mitt all she wants and it won't make much difference.

      *probably isn't, at all.

  18. IncenseDebate

    You pretty much know what is coming from these douches next week if Obama says anything remotely inpolite to Romney.

    1. tessiee

      Yeah, "Blah blah angry violent blah militant blah blah all the libs are so angry I'd like to scratch their angry eyes out and then string them up by their angry necks blah blah".

      I know President Obama is of the "Can't we all get along?" school of thought, but if he does anything but finish what Joe started, I'm going to be one VERY disappointed gal.

      I really hope he doesn't do that "snatching defeat from the jaws of victory" thing that the Dems are unfortunately so good at.
      They're on the ground! Finish them! At this point, no seriously, it's a mercy killing. Finish them!

    2. Negropolis

      Yep, that's why we better come out in unision the second the thing ends just crowing about how Obama is the greatest leader ever. Really, no more of this moping bullshit.

      BTW, I want to hear 47% so many times next Tuesday it's not even funnny.

  19. prommie

    Well, I am not trying to be mean, but that Pauline Ryan is kind of a homely girl, and it must be hard for her, you know, the poor thing, and that just makes it even more terrible for that mean old Joe Biden to be so rude and mean to her.

  20. GunToting[Redacted]

    Too bad Joe didn't tell Screech to "Go fuck himself." We all know that the Repubs are OK with that type of discourse.

  21. Hammiepants

    Ryan was a little bitch, and I heartily laughed my ass off at him, so I think OHJB was really behaving more or less like your average human being.

    1. BadKitty904

      Handsome Joe DEF. has the Common Touch. Ryan, on the other hand, has all the warmth and charm of a water moccasin…

  22. BlueStateLibel

    Yeah right, the Vice President of the United States should show all deference to the wittle congressman that's still wet behind the ears. Joe kicked the little pup's ass like a champ.

  23. One_who_wanders

    I posted a link to the whole article over in Wonkville but here is my favorite paragraph:

    "There is a deeply held Beltway myth of Paul Ryan, Man of Big Ideas, and it dies hard. But, if there is a just god in the universe, on Thursday night, it died a bloody death, was hurled into a pit, doused with quicklime, buried without ceremony, and the ground above it salted and strewn with garlic so that it never rises again. On foreign policy, Ryan occasionally rose, gasping, to the level of obvious neophyte. (He was more lost in Afghanistan than the Russian army ever was.) On domestic policy, his alleged wheelhouse, he was vague, untruthful, and he walked right into a haymaker he should have seen coming from a mile off, when he started bloviating about Biden's role in the "failed" stimulus program, only to have Biden slap him around with Ryan's own requests for stimulus money for his home district back in Wisconsin. He also made it quite clear that a Romney-Ryan White House will do everything it can to eliminate a woman's right to choose. This should make for some fine television commercials over the next few weeks."

    1. actor212

      It was the whole "stimulus" thing that frankly took me by surprise. How do you not know that not only does Biden still have the letters– he has to, by law– but he posted them to the campaign website?

      They're going to be an issue, and you damn well better have an excuse for sending them that doesn't imply that your district needed jobs.

      Also, the whole nonsense about "Scranton having an unemployment rate of 10%" So? So what!

      Biden was DELAWARE'S Senator, not Scranton, Pennsylvania. You have a problem with their unemployment rate, you talk to the Congresscritter from that district or the Senators from PA.

      1. miss_grundy

        There were lots of Repugs who not only asked for money but also had their pictures taken with the big check in front of construction projects that were done because of the stimulus money. Yet so many of them were against it.

  24. actor212

    And, being from the Midwest as Paul Ryan is as well, there is such a thing as Midwestern sensibilities and Midwestern politeness, and “oh yeah, you go in front of me.”

    It's a debate not a TeaParty, Blondie.

    Now shut up and uncross your legs for the camera. Again.

    1. LibertyLover

      Maybe it really is a Tea Party.

      I don't remember too many Tea Party members being all Midwestern sensible or polite a couple of years ago….

  25. Blueb4sinrise

    tsuris:A Yiddish phrase for worries, stress, or hassle

    [no, I don't know many Yiddish words. So sue me.]

      1. Blueb4sinrise

        Thanks, I'll know who to ask in an emergency.

        [sorry, that wasn't you, the Borg took me over there for a sec]

  26. notreelyhelping

    It's a pity Mr. Biden couldn't have been more of a gentleman, like that nice Mr. Cheney back in 2004.

  27. hagajim

    Did anyone notice during the Medicare discussion that Ryan said medical coverage for older poors would be all "out-of-pocket". Last time I checked out-of-pocket meant you had to pay for the shit yourself. Freudian slip or Romney platform?

    1. Gleem McShineys

      Lets say it is platform, until someone on the campaign walks it back.

      So, to answer your question…yes…?

    2. tessiee

      1st researcher: What does it mean?
      2nd researcher: What do *you* think it means?
      Simpsons, "Hurricane Neddy" ep

  28. Troglodeity

    So Gretchen Carlson, "just speaking as a woman for a minute," hated Biden? That's strange … my normally non-political wife was pretty impressed with what Biden said – especially about reproductive rights and rape versus "forcible rape" – and how he said it.

    Oh no, my wife must be a man! How will I break the news to our children?

  29. LibertyLover

    I have to wonder if Obama's instinct not to go all "angry blah man" on Romeny's backside in the first debate might have been the correct one.

    Fox and Foes don't like it when Democrats quit being doormats and start swinging and talkin' back.

  30. Blunderthing

    I never met a child yet who, after having been taken to the woodshed, didn't think their father was a monster. Boo fucking hoo you pansies.

  31. TavariousChinaSmith

    Spin spin spin…

    How did you feel about that debate, undecided voter? Did you feel, as many did, that creepy old drunk Joe Biden was grossly impolite to gracious, earnest, caring Paul Ryan? Please give us your unbiased opinion.

  32. BigSkullF*ckingDog

    That's funny. To me Paul Ryan seems like the guy at the bar who will not shut the fuck up about how many push ups he can do and how much money he supposedly made last year. I fucking hate that guy.

  33. kittensdontlie

    It was an epic battle of good versus evil last night!! What are the oddsmakers saying now! The back and forth, the audibles, the unsportsmanlike conduct, where the clashing of the titans ended with the Steelers coming up short. Go Titans!

  34. YasserArraFeck

    I don't think Ryan did that badly, but compared to Biden, he's a lightweight. He couldn't lift Old Handsome Joe's nuts….

  35. pdiddycornchips

    It's just not fair to be so mean to a Republican. What makes it even worse is Biden repeated Ryan's horrific record of deficit spending back to him in front of the whole nation! They've been trying to hide that for months now and mean 'ol Joe comes along and ruins it for everyone.

  36. el_donaldo

    Haha. If Ryan weren't such a habitual and shameless liar, Biden wouldn't have mocked and interrupted him.

    It's like a teenager who got ripped and wrecked the family wagon and now is totally pissed at his parents for grounding him.

      1. natl_[redacted]_cmdr

        Can't you just see Ryan pouting in his room, cranking Rage Against the Machine, punching his pillows and crying?

          1. Negropolis

            "….said Ryan, dressed up as his favorite anti-hero while tonguing his framed picture of her…"

  37. Tundra Grifter

    Litte known fact! If President Obama had been much more polite to the Russians, and remembered to extend his pinky when sipping from his teacup, they would have agreed to even stronger sanctions against the murderous government of Syria.

    You just can't put too much emphasis on manners in heavy international negotiations! Que Daffy would have pulled out of Libya and taken the first plane to Switzerland or some African nation if he'd just been asked to do so nicely.

    And don't get me started on Iran…

  38. T3rbo

    Say what you want about the right-wing media establishment, but they know exactly what they are doing. Even in this hard left quasi forum, we can't stop talking about what they want us to talk about, which is Biden's demeanor. This, to them, is better than anyone talking about what a disaster the debate was for Ryan and for the ticket's talking points.
    Compare this to the Obama's camp that let the media decide, for themselves, what the outcome and narrative of the first debate was. They had an emergency plan, deployed in real time, to control the disaster that was Biden V Ryan, and Obama's team had nothing. Both Obama and Ryan got creamed in their debates, but look at what we are talking about as if it were a real issue

      1. T3rbo

        I'm just saying, this is just a republican talking point that is intended to dominate all discussion of the debate. If we can argue about Biden being rude (or Obama being downtrodden and polite), it's better than arguing about how Ryan has no fucking idea what he is talking about. Case in point:
        I'm in Colorado, and it's snowing in the mountains today and or raining. By Ryan's logic, presented last night, the mountain passes here are still navigable because it's not winter yet just like the passes in Afghanistan are still navigable (on horseback and foot) because it's not winter yet. Ryan made a point to criticize the president for ending the surge too early, before the fighting season ended. Except, when you look into it, the fighting season ends in the fall, according to one soldier's account, right after Ramadan. Which ended in the middle of August. And the surge, which was the point of the argument last night, ended in September. Which is when it starts to get nasty in all mountain areas in the Northern Hemisphere.
        I bring this up because there are a few articles praising Ryan's foreign policy chops, and the Right wing trolls in the comments are laying down a good base of covering fire by arguing about…Biden being rude. Ryan has no idea what he is talking about in more than one area, and the conversation should be (IMHO), yes, Biden certainly was spirited, but Ryan seemed to not really have a grasp of facts. But it's not.

        1. bobbert

          You make a sort of interesting point, but I think you err in specializing it to Wonkette.

          If we here discuss OHJ's demeanor rather than Lyin's incompetence, it isn't going to impact the broader debate in any significant way. Now, if the RWM is able to diffuse general popular attention to Lyin's incompetence by focusing on OHJ's demeanor, then they will have scored an undeserved gain. But we can't really do anything about that, other than wait to see what happens.

    1. tessiee

      If your larger point is that we need to take control of what the discussion is going to be, how it is going to be framed, and on whose playing field it is going to take place — as the right has — then I wholeheartedly agree.

      However, I will go so far as to say that I've seen plenty of posts, on Wonkette and elsewhere, giving Ryan a richly deserved reaming for both the *quality* (evasive, parroting talking points instead of answering the question) and the *content* (20% tax cuts wtih no way to pay for them, abortion only in cases of rape) of his part in the debate.

      1. T3rbo

        Yes, that is my point exactly. The "biden was rude" talking point is an attempt to re-frame the debate. Instead of "Ryan got his ass handed to him, big fucking time," the framework is now "Biden was so so rude and mean," and we are totally buying into it. Countering with "Ha ha, republicans are such total pussies" does no good if you accept the framework of the argument: we are having their debate instead of ours.
        The problem isn't so much that wonks and wonkettes are having this conversation, it's that this re-frame of the debate is totally working on the media.

        1. tessiee

          It's probably worth pointing out, too, that despite the incessant whining and squealing on the right, there really is no such thing as a "liberal media", and hasn't been for decades.

          Ever since Uncle Raygun eliminated the Fairness Doctrine, Fox, the WSJ, et. al. have dominated the media and control what we see/read and how it's framed (for one example, family leave and workplace safety are the concerns of 100 times as many people as the stock market, but represented 100 times less). If networks were still mandated by law to provide equal time for opposing viewpoints, the media would be very different from its present configuration.

          1. T3rbo

            It seems like there is only a right wing media machine(fox etc.), a weak left wing machine (MSNBC and the like), and the entertainment news industry(cnn, nightly news, etc.). The right wing machine is acting like a big smoke screen right now, pretending like the issue is Joe the Elder being a terrible interrupter. The entertainment industry is picking up on it because it's a carefully crafted story that has an element of truth to it, and I think there is a very correct perception by the entertainment industry that issues only sort of matter to undecided voters.
            The right wing machine did a very smart thing by creating a story that partisans of either inclination will become interested in and react to, and the same story entertains the undecided low information voters (Look at Joe's funny smiles!).
            For sure, Regan was one of the worst presidents we have seen (bar is a bit…low), but I can't entertain the fantasy that anyone will ever change things so that the news is the news again. It's twilight in America…

  39. Biel_ze_Bubba

    Ryan's so-called plan is "mathematically possible" only if certain assumptions — robust economic growth, in particular — are taken as givens.
    In other words, if you assume that the Ryan plan will work, Ryan can show you that the plan will work. The logic is impeccable.

  40. tessiee

    "Fine! THAT'S JUST FINE!! Who cares about a stupid debate!?? We didn't WANT to win your stupid debate for jerks ANYWAY!"
    *SLAM!*
    *STEP Step Step step step*

  41. tessiee

    Yes, why couldn't Joe Biden have been polite and reserved, like that nice Cullid boy in that *other* debate?
    He seems very clean…

  42. marianCali

    It's Friday, so I am hoping for a discussion of Peggy Noonan's new column which teaches us why you shouldn't confuse strength with aggression (sadly, the ultimate icon of strength, her former boss, remains unmentioned). Pretty please, Wonkette ?!

    1. bobbert

      So, I'm on the re-broadcast, but thank you very much anyway.

      Edit: Oh, man, really major thanks. Tremendous stuff.

  43. Gleem McShineys

    I feel sorry for these wingtards. I mean, who doesn't admit that Romney came out ahead in the last debate?
    Is there someone out there that was all "I BELIEVE THE QUIET COLORED MAN SHOWED SPECTACULAR HUMBLE MEEK DECORUM AND THEREFORE, HATH WON THIS CONTEST"? Could you find even one editorial in the left-leaning media tube-o-sphere, or anywhere?

    I mean, I feel kind of bad. They actually have to live with themselves, which is pretty awful. Then to have to look to people like Gretchen Carlson or Rich Lowry or Tucker Carlson to affirm a false belief.

    That can't really feel all that good, that is, if they have any humanity left. I mean, fuck them, it's a choice after all, you know? But still. I cringe a little for their poor tattered souls.

    1. T3rbo

      Yeah, the "biden was an old rude" meme is probably a defense mechanism that serves to protect the fragile right wing intellect. It's like a mantra, meant to block out all harmful stimuli and soothe the spirit.
      Vouchers will destroy medicare? BIDEN IS RUDE BIDEN WAS RUDE BIDEN IS RUDE (first chakra begins to open)
      Oh, now you're jack kennedy? BIDEN IS RUUUUDE BIDEN WAS RUUUDE BIDEN IS RUUDE
      What loopholes are you going to close exactly? AHHHH!!! BIDEN RUDE BIDEN RUDE BIDEN RUDE

  44. mrblifil

    Yeah but they LURVED it when Mitt dangled sad befuddled Jim Lehrer's job in front of his nose and snatched it away at the last second, in front of 67M people. That's gentlemanliness.

  45. MittBorg

    Is it wrong of me to bwahaha and rub my hands together with many larfs of larfingkment as I read this hilariously teary snivelling?

    If this is wrong I don't want to be RI-I-I-I-GHT!!!

  46. OneYieldRegular

    Call me insensitive, but I was impressed that Biden didn't grab a pair of scissors, pin Ryan down to the ground, and cut off his widow's peak.

  47. GeorgiaBurning

    I see the two of them going outside the bar for a fight. Five minutes later Joe comes back inside combing his hair and tucking in his wrinkled shirt. There's a few scrapes on his knuckles but that's it. Another five minutes later, Ryan is being eased through the door into a booth. Poor Paul has a limp, black eye, oddly bent arm and, talking in a very high voice, claims he slipped off the curb. Later, the emergency room doctor says if the knife went a little higher it would have gotten both testicles. Still, Paul has to pee sitting down for a month.

  48. Allmighty_Manos

    Well, at least these same folks are consistent – remember all the praise Obama got from the right for his very calm, nonpartisan demeanor during the last debate

  49. Jerri

    I don't find being condescended to polite, but whatever I guess Paul Ryan is just being a nice, helpful man when he talks.

    And all these whiny GOPer titty babies with their hurt feelings. Grow a dick and get back in the game. This is politics, not tee-ball. Yer man failed! Better luck next time.

  50. Porter Melmoth

    Despite his Eddie Munster looks and his Eddie Haskell demeanor, did you see how Ry looked at OH-Joe? With the utmost pathos, sympathy, and loving understanding! Don't miss the subtleties, gang!

  51. ChrisM2011

    And I bet they were all undecideds too! Thanks a lot, Biden! We're gonna lose the douche bag vote now!

  52. smitallica

    Translation:
    Why wouldn't Joe just sit quietly and let his opponent spew baldfaced lies with impunity all night? You know, like Obama did!

  53. tessiee

    This has been their schtick since the Reagan years: That it's somehow bad form to report their words accurately and/or ask questions and/or call them out on their shit.

    For ONCE, they didn't get their way, and I for one think that should be the rule, not the exception.

  54. glamourdammerung

    So they are trying to play on stereotypes of the Irish being a bunch of problematic drunkards? Seriously?!?!

  55. tessiee

    You know, if you're an unemployed loser like me, you end up watching at least some court TV shows, and about once a day, right after the girl who lent money to her boyfriend and never got it back, there are two guys who got in a fight.

    And the judge, whoever he or she is, always says the same thing: "You're the one who got in a fight of your own free will; there was no guarantee that you'd win, and you don't get to complain now because you're losing".

    This is why that side loses every fair fight, and why they still haven't gotten over the Civil War: They're so pigfucking stupid they truly don't understand that they're not guaranteed to get their way.

  56. Lynne

    If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen, little Paulie. You want to go where the big boys play, and you won't have anyone to hold your hand then either.

  57. Cheneysleftnut

    OK. So who plays Joe Biden the movie? Brian Dennehy? Woody Harrelson? George C. Scott? There was so much spin on this story that I have not stopped throwing up since 9:30a…

    1. gurukalehuru

      I was running through the names, looking for some Hollywood actor who would make a funny answer to this question, but it struck me who really should play Biden in the movie.

      This is snark free: Jim Carrey.

  58. Negropolis

    As a Midwesterner, let me tell you what Midwestern Nice really means. It means letting a man – and always a man, because an opinionated women is not "lady-like" – say and make all kinds of scurrilous claims as you sit and nod and smile and demure until the end and go home. It's the cousin of "Southern Hospitality". Now, Minnesota Nice is a subset of Midwestern Nice that's a bit more passive-aggressive.

    Either way, painting Ryan is too decent of a man is so silly as to be offensive, as if that even needs to be said.

  59. Negropolis

    I keep hearing people say "well, Ryan didn't do that bad." Joe didn't just dominant Ryan on style and sheer stage presence, but he dominated him with the facts, unlike in the Obama-Romney debate. Joe took that shit and stuffed it right back down Paul Ryan's throat. That Paul Ryan didn't cry is not a sign that he "held his own", which is the phrase I keep hearing. Joe took that little bastard back to school and paddled him in front of the class.

  60. lulzmonger

    Civility was present in abundance as far as I saw … but then I'm a bit weird: I was brought up to believe that letting dangerous bullshit slide by WITHOUT interrupting it was much more rude than interrupting its progress, breathlessly flouncing Etiquette Gestapo be damned.

    *awaits attack ads from RaisedByWolves SuperPAC*

  61. Lex

    So, suppose, just for the sake of argument, that Biden HAD been drinking. This means that Ryan got his ass handed to him by a 69-year-old drunk guy.

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