Sundays With Jamie Kilstein And The Lord: 9/11 Is The 9/11 Of Health Care Analogies

Health careWell, 9/11 officially became the new Hitler this week as Republican Congressman Mike Pence likened the Supreme Court ruling on “Obamacare” to the attacks that killed 2,996 people and injured more than 6,000. I guess at least, if that happens again, that’ll be 6,000 people that will now have health insurance in case they happen to be in another building that A PLANE CRASHES INTO!

The Affordable Care Act could be way better. I know it is a giveaway to the health insurance companies, but millions of people will now have coverage and this is step one in going after state-by-state single-payer, so people don’t die in the streets. But, you may say, why should we reward the companies that have been killing those people for decades? I KNOW! SHUT UP!

But are Republicans even trying anymore? It’s like they have a word bank of crap that octogenarians are afraid of and they just randomly pull it out every time something they don’t like happens. JOE BIDEN IS A BLACK TEENAGER! SANDRA FLUKE IS AN ABORTION!

How can you even make a comparison like that and expect to be taken seriously?! It was the 9/11 of analogies, the holocaust of word selection, and you are the drowned baby of politicians.

I’m not a fan of the health insurance mandate. I want a public option or Medicare for all. I’m not thrilled about it. Would I compare it to the biggest attack on American soil? No. Mainly because healthcare is the opposite of murder!

These assholes are just running out of scary analogies. If there is another attack on America, I might believe it was an inside job by Republicans so they could have something to compare gay marriage to when it finally gets legalized.

Mike Pence wants to be the governor of Indiana. He still may win. Republicans will still vote for him. But for a party of people who pretend to be so patriotic, I would ask them to consider what is more patriotic: Trying to end the wars that are killing our soldiers, murdering hundreds of thousands of innocent Arabs, while creating a deep-seeded hatred of this country that may lead to another attack, or using one of the biggest tragedies to ever happen on American soil as a political tool so that you can get more campaign contributions from an industry that, up until this week, could deny a member of your family coverage because they had cancer? Think about it and don’t be just a 9/11.

Jamie Kilstein will get all 9/11 on Mike Pence’s ass. No he won’t. He is a pacifist. Listen to his podcast at wearecitizenradio.com.

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585 comments

  1. NorthStarSpanx

    PALIN: Well, let's see. There's –of course –in the great history of America rulings there have been rulings, there's never going to be absolute consensus by every American. And there are — those issues, again, like Roe v Wade where I believe are best held on a state level and addressed there. So you know — going through the history of America, there would be others but–"

    COURIC: Can you think of any?

    PALIN: Well, I could think of — of any again, that could be best dealt with on a more local level. Maybe I would take issue with. But you know, as mayor, and then as governor and even as a Vice President, if I'm so privileged to serve, wouldn't be in a position of changing those things but in supporting the law of the land as it reads today.

    1. caitifty

      Gah. I thought my brain had recovered from the first time I heard that, but you just broke it again.

    2. sewollef

      What the fuck was she saying? No, really…. what the fuck?

      I've read it three times now and I'm non the wiser. In fact, it scares me that the media even ask her opinion about what the weather's like outside her window, let alone anything requiring brain cells to function. What is the media thinking?

      God damn it… I've just finished my first Dogfish Head beer of this blisteringly hot day and now I've got to have another. Fuck, fuck and fuck.

      1. tessiee

        "What the fuck was she saying? No, really…. what the fuck?"

        That, as a person holding office, Silly Sarah has a sworn responsibility to uphold the law of the land as it stands — except the stuff she disagrees with, like Roe v. Wade, which everyone should feel free to ignore.

      2. miss_grundy

        She was saying: "I don't know f-all about what I'm talking about, but I'll try to sound like I do for the benefit of the asshats that will vote for me on the ticket." How's that?

    3. sullivanst

      But you know, as mayor, and then as governor and even as a Vice President, if I'm so privileged to serve, wouldn't be in a position of changing those things but in supporting the law of the land as it reads today.

      Thus proving that even Sarah Palin is considerably smarter than Rand fucking Paul.

    4. Antispandex

      You gotta hand it to her. Bitch has NO shame. A lot of people might be embarrassed by something like that, but not our grizzly mom, no siree!

      1. Negropolis

        That is that woman's super power, I swear. The inability to feel shame, at all, is what makes her so powerful. I mean, when I saw her do the "blood libel" bullshit after Gabby was shot, I knew Palin had otherwordly abilities when it came to disavowing shame.

        1. fawkedifiknow

          If she was smart enough to know how stupid she is, she wouldn't be so stupid. Probably. (I do know people who are not real smart, but they know it. Now that I think about it, maybe they're smarter than they think. Certainly smarter than Snowbilly.)

          1. Negropolis

            I didn't say she was smart. There is great (horrible) power in self-imposed ignorance. Not in the long run, but there is great short-term power in lies and ignorance.

    5. TribecaMike

      Granted, Palin was prepped to talk about rulers, and not rulings. Non-Catholic educated girls have a tough time talking about rulers.

    6. Negropolis

      I had forgotten that this was a real thing. This is perfect for what we are talking about. Just perfect.

  2. Barb

    911, death panels, Obama lied, freedom died. Isn't affordable heath care kinda like the opposite of dying? These words were all spoken by people who happen to have health care coverage already.

    My granddaughter just got open heart surgery because some brave couple donated their dead baby's heart so that Mina could live. I didn't know this until yesterday. I spent most of the day in shock and quiet reflection over the state of health care in America.

    Screw the rich white men who back Romney in the hopes of a returned favor for all that cash they pump into his campaign. They are hoping for a war with Iran and the prospect of making even more money.

    As grateful as I am that someone donated a heart so that my daughter's baby could live I am deeply saddened that a baby died for this to happen. Couldn't we heal and cure the people who are already here? Couldn't we do more research and cure some of the diseases that are killing us now? More healing, many more jobs, screw war and rich old white men that man a fortune off it.

    1. MosesInvests

      I'd upfist that more than once if i could, Barb. And know that prayers are being said for Mina's complete recovery.

        1. MosesInvests

          Good morning, Barb! Just sitting drinking coffee (organic and locally roasted, DFH that I am) and enjoying the all-too-rare rain here in Austin. What's up with you? How is Mina doing (and her mom)?

          1. Barb

            I just saw the typo in my original post. Oh well, so sue me.

            101 degrees out here. I wish it would rain.

    2. Rotundo_

      Sometimes medical science just isn't enough. I have the donor sticker on my DL and have instructed my folks to let them use what they can if I won't be making use of it anymore. The couple that donated their baby's heart for Mina have a great deal of grief to work through, but the knowledge that it spared that grief to someone else helps a bit. As for those fighting the idea of taking care of people to make a buck, yeah, screw them.

      1. Barb

        You are absolutely correct, Rotundo_. I appreciate that you are an organ donor, thanks for being awesome.

      2. Dashboard Buddha

        I'm a donor too. Lungs – fantastic. Never a smoker. Kidneys – Great. Skin – Great. I'm a big guy so I have acres of it. Eyes – a little nearsighted, but to be expected after all these years. Liver – well, it should have a few more miles left on it. You can't have everything, I guess.

        1. Butch_Wagstaff

          Anything they can use, they can take as far as I'm concerned. Hair, teeth, toe and fingernails, even. I'm not gonna need them. What's left will be cremated. Have got a couple of spots picked out where my ashes will be scattered.
          Just as long as I don't end having an obit that reads: "…went to be with Lord." Ugh.

          1. Dashboard Buddha

            My desire for burial is to sponsor a bench here on the island with the plaque that says, "Dashboard Buddha – He always wanted to live on a small island off the coast of the United States" and I want my ashes mixed in with the concrete for the footings.

          2. Butch_Wagstaff

            The two spots I have picked for the scattering of ashes:
            The property on which I grew up, which is now a VA state park. The other being a lovely hillside in TN where the cemetery is in which my paternal grandparents are buried.
            My "fantasy" choice would have been having my ashes blown into the face of Dubya Bush.

          3. redarmyzombie

            "All I wanted was to live on an island, and all I got was this lousy park bench!"

    3. Chichikovovich

      Thanks for a moving post, Barb. My best friend here in town had an inherited heart defect that would have slowly killed him a generation ago. He's alive today because he received a heart two years ago from someone who checked the organ donor box on his license.

      1. Barb

        Chich, Chrissy was all weird about my wanting to go there for the surgery. She never told me that we were waiting for a donor. She emailed me about it yesterday and it stunned me all day. Had this baby's heart not been donated it could have been Mina making the next donation.

        I guess we spend so much time reading about what the idiots do that it makes us forget the good things that people do.

    4. Callyson

      Barb, I am glad to hear that Mina is OK. Along with MosesInvests, my prayers are also with you.

      As for Iran, here's hoping our exhausted, overextended military "shoots" that idea down…

        1. HistoriCat

          I'm tired of wars. Let's fix up America for a while and be happy.

          That is just so anti-RepublicanAmerican. For shame!

    5. OldWhiteLies

      Dearest B, that sounds like one of those sit down before you fall down bits of news (the transplant), when you stare into space and lose hours in contemplation at the vagaries of life. A roller coaster of thank-yous and guilt; anger at the futility and the whys, flood of relief as the realisation dawns that you and yours are mostly on the other side of it now. My guess is that your daughter and her family are at or near exhaustion from this. My thoughts will stay with them and you. Most kindest regards.

      1. Barb

        Thanks OWL.
        I can't wait to see the medical bill for this procedure. Chrissy has insurance and something tells me that it will still be HUGE.

    6. AlterNewt

      …Not feeling equal to the task of being clever at the same time, I'll just go ahead wish all good things to come to you and those you love, Barb.

    7. RavenRant

      God bless those parents for finding courage and generosity in the midst of their grief. Praying for you and your family and Miracle Mina.

      And you are right. Fuck these fuckers who want people to die from treatable diseases because they can't afford treatment, or go bankrupt, losing everything they've ever worked for over a lifetime because someone in their family has a devastating illness or accident.

      1. Barb

        Hey Raven!
        I think that struck me as the most odd is that mere seconds after the SCOTUS decision was made Sarah Palin started trending on Twitter. She actually had the testicle ballz to give her opinion on this. Her freaking family has FREE government health care because of Todd's Eskimo heritage, including Bristol's 1/32nd Yup'ik child. Gosh, what's the cut off on that shit?

        I hate that "I got mine, go screw yourself" attitude.

        1. RavenRant

          ALL of the people we see commenting about healthcare have cadillac insurance, whether it be the federal insurance exchange, other government healthcare, or the 'Regular Joe' multimillionaire news anchors and pundits.

          But Palin is beyond the pale. I'm really hoping her 15 minutes are just about up. When the gravy train stops, she'll probably blow through her ill-gotten gains as fast as Levi did.

    8. emmelemm

      I made some comments earlier that disappeared, it seems.

      Organ donation is a brave, beautiful and wonderful thing. I'm glad that your granddaughter is doing well.

      1. Barb

        Thanks Emm.
        They gave Chrissy the name of the family who donated the heart. I would like to know how many other families benefited from this amazing gift from this baby.

        I need to acknowledge them in some way and I don't know what to do. What would you do?

        1. emmelemm

          Boy, I don't know. That's a tough one. I have a very good friend who had a double-lung transplant 11-12 years ago. The organization that coordinates organ donation here doesn't give you the name of the donor's family, but if you write a letter, they will forward the letter on, and then the family can contact you directly if they so choose.

          My friend wrote a letter; the family never contacted her. I think, especially in this (current) case of it being a baby, that family is probably too deep in grief to know what to do with thanks right now. I'd say, for now, just feel your thanks as deeply as you can, and push them out into the universe.

        2. BerkeleyBear

          Couple thoughts, Barb – one is to give a donation (if you can) to an organ donor/ donation registry charity (plenty around) in honor of the family. You don't have to even mention them specifically in the gift – the point is that you know why you are giving. Another is to see if the family put any sort of obituary out with instructions on where to give (some people feel the need to do this for newborns but others don't) and follow up on that. Beyond that (and remembering their special donation when you think of your granddaughter) I'd tread lightly for now. Hopefully you will have Mina's long and healthy life to do anything more.

          1. Barb

            Berkeley! Thanks for the idea, truly.
            The hospital, A.I. duPont Institute, is the same children's hospital that saved the life of my daughter in 1981.

            I will wait until the time of mourning has passed and then I will recognize the child at the hospital in some way. I'm still in shock that there was an organ donation involved and that Mina got a donation when she was just a week old at the time of the donation. Not to sound like an idiot, where the hell did I think the needed necessary parts would come from? It just never crossed my mind, seriously. I thought they would slip a needle in and balloon something and "whatever" for her aorta. I couldn't have been more stunned that a child had to die for Chrissy's child to live.

          2. BerkeleyBear

            Sounds like a great idea, Barb. It is nothing to be ashamed of that you didn't know an organ transplant was involved – you were focused on your family, as just about anyone would be, and it isn't exactly an every day thing.

            Interestingly enough, some of the earliest work on successful open heart surgery and transplanted tissues was on young children – something I only found out from a surprisingly well done movie called "Something the Lord Made" about the African American surgical assistant who was critical to the work, but (of course) got shafted on the credit for decades because of racial bias.

          3. redarmyzombie

            Barb, I'm glad to hear that Mina's doing fine!

            As for the donation she recieved, I'm at a loss as to what to say, but if it helps, I've got a story I could tell.

            In 2005, my Tai Chi instructor, May Chen, started experiencing a deterioration in her left knee. When she went in for treatment, she tried physical therapy along with a series of injections to help lubricate the knee, but after a while it became apparent that none of it was working. As a Tai Chi Master and a recognized member of the Martial Arts community, it looked as though her livelihood and passion was coming at an end.
            Then, towards the end of 2005, she was placed on a transplant list and became a recipient of a donor knee, and a couple months later went on to compete as a member of the U.S. Wushu team for an international competition in China, and received two gold medals. In order to show her gratitude for the donor family, she sent them both of the medals she had won so they could know the difference they had made in her life.

            If you like, you could read more about it here: http://www.donatelifefloat.org/prod/components/me

          4. redarmyzombie

            And as for war with Iran, I'd just like to point out that many of the people proponing it also claim that Iran has extensive ties with drug cartels, terrorist groups, and revolutionary movements throughout the Americas; which, if any of it were true, would mean that if we were to go to war, Iran would be capable of not only carrying out attacks against our interests abroad, but would also be capable of launching attacks within the continental United States itself.

            I have no idea if any of that is even true to begin with; this is just to say, these chickenhawk shitsuckers would have no problem with starting a war with a very real threat of attack upon the homeland itself.

        3. BelleSC

          I am near tears about this. I am so happy that Mina is doing well.

          My best friend's son who is a firefighter donated a kidney to a fellow firefighter. The families now refer to each other as kidney-in-laws.

          I have no idea what to suggest to acknowledge the donation. Maybe changing Mina's name to add the name of the donor child kind of as a memorial?

    9. JustPixelz

      Thank you Barb for reminding me (and us) that health care is not just a political game for some people. Have you noticed there are tissue boxes everywhere in hospitals and doctors' offices? It's not just so sneezes and coughs are contained. (Hell, I needed a tissue while reading your post.)

      I have health insurance. When my wife was diagnosed with cancer, she and I did not say, "we can't afford this." She got treatment. So I can't hate health insurance companies. But I can (and do!) hate people who think that insurance is a luxury.

      During the Obamacare debate, I suggested an annual lottery for insuring members of Congress. If 15% of Americans are uninsured, so should be 15% of Congress. With Obamacare the unqualified law of the land, my lottery won't be necessary. But if the GO-Pee gets their wish and repeals it, they should at least have the balls to face their own future without that "luxury".

      1. Barb

        JustPixels, I spoke to my sister about this and asked her what she thought the bill for this would be. She was flippant and said, "They can just file bankruptcy" It shouldn't be that way.

        Chrissy and Jason have health insurance. Jason was a Marine in Iraq. I want the doctors who did this to be paid. I want everyone to have affordable, reliable health care coverage.

        Rebecca reposted a tweet from someone who was so pissed about this SCOTUS decision that they threatened to move to Canada. LOL

        1. Chichikovovich

          I spoke to my sister about this and asked her what she thought the bill for this would be. She was flippant and said, "They can just file bankruptcy"

          Is this the same sister who asked you to buy the house next to hers because she was afraid that…. Well, was this the same sister who asked you to buy the house next to hers?

          1. Chichikovovich

            I'm beginning to form a picture of an American version of the people Chichikov met on his trip through the Russian steppes.

          2. Barb

            I disagree. My sister is white trash, a racist, a greedy and bossy nasty woman that I wouldn't turn my back on for one split second. Wait, unless that is what you are saying, LOL!!!

          3. Chichikovovich

            Yes, that's basically what I'm saying – sorry I was so obscure. I was coming back to give an explanation and you're comment gave me something to reply to. In Dead Souls, Chichikov travels through backwoods Russia, looking to get people involved in a con by offering them something for nothing. The people he meets are a range of rural Russian stereotypes, generally in their most extreme and malevolent manifestations.

            I was suggesting your sister is a rural American stereotype in the same style.

          4. Barb

            Lol, Chich. Nancy is a special piece of work. She and I are one year apart in age, born in the same month. You will never meet two woman who are more polar opposites in your life. God created a Polaroid photo and it was peeled apart and she is one half and I am the other half.

            I look at the menu and I look for onions and garlic, Nancy is "allergic" She can do math in her head and I don't handle cash. She hates people of color and I have one best friend who is white and the rest are the "people of the damned." I can cook and she has one "moist free" chicken recipe that she thinks everyone loves. She dresses like photographers are following her night and day and I dress like I am following a sports team day and night.

            I think the strangest thing about my relationship with Nancy is that I don't have the ballz to tell her that she is the most annoying person in the world and that I really hate her. Then there is the fact that she doesn't have the ballz to tell me that I am the most annoying person in the world that and she really hates me.

            Nancy emailed me today and asked me to send her my daughters names and contact information. Gosh, they are 29 and 30 years-old. Maybe it is a little late to play the concerned auntie.

    10. Negropolis

      They either don't understand or don't care (and I think it's becoming more of the latter as the years go on) that millions of Americans are making life-and-death decisions every. fucking. day. Death may not be imminent, but it's creeping up on a lot of Americans quicker than it should, and so many has so little recourse to ward it off. While they are worrying about their boats and their vacations and their mansions or some stupid ideology, there are people out there just trying to LIVE, actually stay alive.

      This is why it's so important for Obama to win and for us to take back Congress. Every time I hear some conservative bitch about foodstamps I die a little inside from the anger. A real conservative would want to find some way to mitigate the suffering of the poor if only to save a greater amount of money down the road, but these short-sighted fuckers don't even want that, anymore. They want what they want (almost always frivilous wants) and they want them NOW.

      We didn't push off a king to be ruled by amoral merchant kings, and we didn't end up helping save the worldt then not be able to save our damned selves.

      1. Barb

        Negro, Newt made a speech where he said that food stamp recipients are using food stamps to take trips to Hawaii. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statement

        I've seen some crazy shit in my life and I've never seen a person who can convert food stamps for a trip to the Islands of Hawaii.

        For me, the second most annoying thing is am image of the Pope, holding a giant gold cross and telling us that we should consider the poor children.

    11. DemmeFatale

      Every life is a gift, isn't it?
      Peace to you all.

      How about a regulation making everyone with a license AUTOMATICALLY a donor?
      (You could easily opt out for religious reasons, if you're a selfish prick or whatever.)
      We could call it Mina's Law!!

      1. Barb

        Demme, Thanks for your opinion. Why should anyone carry organs to whatever place they "think" they are going to in the afterlife? I am an organ donor only because I was flippant about that question at the DMV. "Um, yeah, can I get out of here now?" Now I understand the seriousness of it all.

        I have a favorite writer who I would love to cover this story. I would love to have her trace all of the lives saved by this one baby's organs and the heart that got donated for Mina. She is moving this weekend and I know she would be perfect for this project. She is a woman of strong will and a generous heart, who took in a child for adoption in need at an early age in life. I think this story would be important and could be covered in an large forum and would make a great book.

        This subject aside, has anyone seen Rebecca, the worthless slacker lately?

  3. Hera Sent Me

    As corny as it sounds, I can remember election day 2000, when the news media that had been reporting Gore won Florida (which in the end he did, but that's another story) took it back. I felt a gear had shifted in the great machine of the cosmos, and things were now going to start going badly.

    On election day 2008, I had the opposite feeling. Since then, I've had my mood bruised, my hopes dashed, my frustrations multiplied. But I never lost the feeling that the gear had shifted.

    Today, I feel much as I did in 2008. We have a wonderful president, we have a Supreme Court Chief Justice who could have been a Taney, and instead is a Marshall. I know there will be setbacks and disappointments, but I still believe that in the end We the People will prevail.

    Long Live the USA. Long live President Obama. Long live Chief Justice Roberts.

    1. Chichikovovich

      I wouldn't go so far as Marshall, but at least John Roberts may have turned out to be the 21st century's Owen Roberts. I'll wait for a few more years to see if this was a tactical retreat to make further havoc possible, or evidence that he really is capable of calling balls and strikes, as he promised (under oath) that he would.

      1. Dr. Nick Riviera

        Yeah, Roberts still gave us Citizens United which may in turn give us President Romney and two houses full of Republicans who will repeal the law he just ruled constitutional.

      2. BerkeleyBear

        That bullshit analogy drives me up a wall. I don't know why no one ever came back and pointed out that every MLB umpire (much less the lower levels) has a very subjective strike zone (as documented by technology) and that while some are consistent internally none are either the same as the next guy or anything close to an objective reality. Which suggests either Roberts was clueless or being knowingly duplicitous in giving that answer – neither of which is exactly comforting.

        In another sense, the analogy does fit, as the reality is that every jurist sees shit differently, too. And the rules on how they get to see things are a lot less straightforward than the whole edge to edge of the plate, knees to numbers on the player that umps are supposedly restricted to. I just wish everyone would admit it, rather than trying to claim in hearings that there is some magical set of rules they are adhering to that would somehow make their behavior more predictable and rational. Because I can tell you that if we had the equivalent of the strike zone tracking machines baseball uses for the Supreme Court, Roberts' opinion would be the equivalent of calling a fastball down the middle a foul ball out of play – both are strikes, but they look nothing alike to any sane person.

        1. sullivanst

          Ooh, very nice way of expressing how the Roberts opinion gets to the right result by completely the wrong way.

          Ultimately whether an uninsured person is considered in or out of commerce isn't deeply significant, as the government (and Ginsburg's opinion) went to lengths (apparently not great enough lengths, given the obvious lack of understanding of the argument which Roberts' opinion and the dissent exhibit in their mischaracterizations of it as they tersely dismiss it) to point out that their argument for why the uninsured are in commerce applies only to healthcare. Far more significant is that five Justices agreed that the "necessary and proper" clause is a nullity, which seems to me to be a massive retrograde step which threatens to return us to pre-Wickard days of absurdly narrow interpretations of the commerce power.

          Also deeply disappointing was that seven Justices agreed on a muscular states rights interpretation that makes almost no sense at all, gives judicial significance to meaningless formalism ("did you repeal and replace the program, or make significant alterations to the old program?"), creates an arbitrary distinction between minor and major modifications (without even so much as a "you'll know it when you see it") and, for the first time ever, finds an exercise of Congress' spending power unconstitutional.

  4. CivicHoliday

    "do not go gently into that good night
    rage, rage against the dying of the light"

    The end of an era of old white racist republican voters is indeed a scary thing. Women, minorities, and young people are all becoming more politically active. The last death throws of the GOP, unfortunately, appear to be very supernova-like in obnoxiousness. I would much have preferred they all shrank into tiny brown dwarfs and quietly consumed themselves.

    1. Designer_Radio

      Yes, but realize the brown dwarf may quietly seethe for literally trillions of years — maybe enough time for many of them to gravitate together and reignite their combined and critical mass.

      Whereas the supernova just finally explodes in a burst of lethal and memorable radiation. But, that explosion also sews the seeds of new movements, potentially (eventually) mirroring the Evil Star they were borne of.

      Pick your poison.

    2. Negropolis

      You know, I wonder though if the collateral damage won't be so much so as to permanently wound us? You know, it's one thing to scream racial slurs at the president and his allies through the internet, and even to march on Washington with guns to make a point. It's entirely another to have things like Citizens United, that has the potential to throw one party into a perpetual disadvantage. If only it was just the tea party. The problem is there friends in high places.

      1. CivicHoliday

        I do worry about how damaging these death throws will be for us in the long term. I think that despite my preference of a long slow quiet party death, I never really believe that conservatives and the more odious elements of their philosophy would fade away that easily. It remains to be seen how much damage they will do before being permanently out-voted.

  5. Chichikovovich

    that you can get more campaign contributions from an industry that, up until this week, could deny a member of your family coverage because they had cancer?

    I'm not completely on top of where the big money is going, but I thought that Big Insurance was just delighted with ACA, as long as it has the individual mandate in there. Thirty million new policies! Government subsidies! The threat of a public option and single payer warded off, perhaps permanently!

    1. Designer_Radio

      It's my opinion that the new rule (went into effect this year) that ins. co.s must spend 80% of their premium revenues on actual healthcare (as opposed to marketing, other non-healthcare expenditures) is one of the trades for the mandate – along with no preexisting conditions, etc.

      But I think AHIP will still continue bitching about this, and I seem to remember reading that they've still fought against Obamacare by funding PACS. I could be wrong and don't care to research right now. This has been my Irresponsible Opinion, Sunday Edition.

    2. BerkeleyBear

      AHIP was first on board for many of those reasons, especially as an alternative to single payer, government purchasing of pharmaceuticals, etc. They certainly see the ACA with mandate as a lot more palatable than anything that doesn't have the mandate and gets rid of pre-existing condition exclusions. But once they thought they smelled the chance of keeping the marginally more profitable status quo they went into reverse and have stayed there. Repeal to them is the best of all worlds, since they know full well we'll be in limbo over getting to consensus on anything that causes the slightest burp in their bottom lines for the next decade or more.

      Plus, they really do hate having their margins capped, empowering any regulator to veto rate increases, and having to give back premiums (that they had traditionally instantly booked as profits as well as investing in ways with massive exposure that they can't do if they have to keep higher reserves on hand to pay out). Basically, they want all of us feeling like tenants in a 19th century tenement – willing to pay whatever they ask and grateful for the coverage.

    3. Antispandex

      Yeah, there's that…but really, what are the odds it was ever going to go well for the middle class and the poor anyway? We even have the political LEFT in this country saying everything is better off privatized.

    4. Negropolis

      The manadate was the carrot, but there were quite a few sticks, thank god. One of the few things the administration did right in terms of messaging, was to at make this appear to the public as a gift to the insurance industry. In a way, it is, but their a quite a few regulations put in that cut into any profit gain they may have gotten from the bill (i.e. keeping those with pre-existing conditions, overhead regulations, etc…)

  6. PubOption

    As far as I know there is nothing in the ACA which compels anyone to accept treatment for any condition. The wingnuts still have the freedom to die from a treatable condition.

  7. FlownOver

    Journalists used to call out pols who would use analogies like this. Back when we had journalists.

    In their absence why don't the Democrats go apeshit over it, e.g. "Republicans are desecrating the memory of 3,000 American heroes and belittling the brave first responders who risked their lives"? As long as there's unilateral restraint the pigfuckers Republicans will just keep on keeping' on.

    1. Dr. Nick Riviera

      Because without a doubt the journalists will invite 10 Republicans on their show to talk about how the evil Democrats are politicizing 9/11

    2. BerkeleyBear

      Because Pence "apologized" for getting caught, so we can't use his horrible fucking nature against him – that would be politicizing 9/11, y'know?

    1. Callyson

      Just read the HuffyPo article about this crap. Think this is what pisses me off the most:

      Wallace pressed McConnell, noting that the Affordable Care Act will prohibit insurance companies from not offering plans to individuals with pre-existing health conditions. "If you repeal Obamacare, how will you protect those people with pre-existing conditions?"
      "Over the half of the states have high-risk pools that deal with that issue," McConnell said, assuring Wallace that the state programs could cover the tens of millions of uninsured Americans who have pre-existing health conditions.

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/01/mitch-mc

      Translation: we red states will mooch once again and let the blue states pay for this, and if/when any of our residents need this, we'll tell them to move…

      Asshole.

      1. Chichikovovich

        "Over the half of the states have high-risk pools that deal with that issue," McConnell said, assuring Wallace that the state programs could cover the tens of millions of uninsured Americans who have pre-existing health conditions.

        Well, if that's so, Mitch, what's been stopping them? The nearly half that don't feel like it, I mean.

    1. C_R_Eature

      This happens also:
      You know what a healthcare 9/11 is? Finding out you got cancer as your employer's trying to claw back your health benefits Insurance Company's employed doctor and policy expert is paid to find reasons to deny your claim.

      However, with the Supreme Court's reaffirmation of the ACA, these people's jobs are now Illegal. No one will be able to deny you health benefits for a pre-existing condition. Some of this goes into effect in 2014, but the train's left the station, American health care in undergoing radical positive reform and all the Republicans can do is slow it down.

      1. trampndirtdown

        Left the station indeed Creetch, I'm already receiving checks from my insurance company with a nice little mandated note " sorry we overcharged you here is a refund"

        1. C_R_Eature

          Are you really? Already! I thought it would take until August for the overpayment checks to go out and this just too cool. The stipulation that your Insurance company has to spend at least 80% of their policy income on actual insurance is but one of the consumer protections written into this bill. When large numbers of people begin getting them, they will begin to realize how much they've been ripped off over the years.There is no reason – other than inefficiency and profiteering – that American health insurance companies spend 26%+ on overhead and other countries averages are around 6%.

        2. not that Radio

          I read about the MLR rebates and I was all WOO HOO! until I saw this. Scroll down and notice how much rebate the residents of New Mexico will be getting. WTF? Is it because our teabagger governor refused the funds? Or are we just too sparse/brown/remote to qualify?

          1. C_R_Eature

            ZERO? Whatinthehell!?
            Either your Insurance is very efficient or nobody has any!

          2. not that Radio

            We employ people in 10 states. We use fucking CIGNA as an insurance carrier. Every other state is getting rebates, because CIGNA is a Big League extortion racket, and they won't even pay for my fucking shrink, AND I REALLY FUCKING NEED ONE, despite the $300/month that I shovel into their CEO's yacht every month. They redesign their website every other week, to make claims harder to find, and this must eat up at least 21% of their revenue, so they lose on that alone.

            So how could they have not ripped off their NM customers, but they ripped off everyone else? Does not compute. It must be the governor.

          3. C_R_Eature

            CIGNA Blows Goats and shrink services should be fucking free, dammit.
            This is totally unacceptable and I'd raise hell if I were you. Is your Congressional Rep. dependable or batshit, because that's the kind of leverage that would be good to have.
            Also – have you looked into supplemental Ins. like AFLAC?

          4. not that Radio

            Steve Pearce is my representative in Congress. His platform consists of (a) declaring Reagan a saint, (b) outlawing abortion, and (c) giving away public lands to his rancher/oilman friends. My senators are both cool, and they both actually respond with non-formletter responses when I write to them. Tom Udall will be visiting my worksite tomorrow. Perhaps I can slip a note into his briefcase.

            I haven't looked into AFLAC. I could travel 90 minutes each way, during the work week, to an "in-network" shrink. I would use up my sick time inside of six months if I did that. And even if I had the hours, my workload is too unforgiving, and I would fall too far behind. So I come to wonkette, instead. Congratulations! You are my new shrink!

          5. C_R_Eature

            Hit up Tom Udall then. That's one of the things these guys are supposed to do – provide constituent services. He might surprise you.

            Getting supplemental insurance sucks, but sometimes it beats the alternative. If you can, you should get a group of people in your company together to make them look into other providers. With the healthcare field changing this dramatically, everyone just might save money and get better care.

            I came here for shrink services too – try not to act too surprised. I think that's why a lot of us are here.
            I'm happy to help you out.

            As your Psychiatrist, I advise you to rent a very fast car with no top and get the hell out of town for 48 hours.

          6. Boojum

            Your problem is that you want to fuck your Mother and hate your Father. Or vice versa. Either way, that will be $150.

    2. lisawines

      My friend, a single mom with no support from the father of the child, got cancer and had to quit her job because it would cost her $10K out of her pocket to fight the cancer on her company's limited health insurance. Luckily, I had an empty house in Arizona (I was living in France and couldn't sell the house) where she could live for free until she beat the cancer. And also lucky for her, she was able to get state health care funding in AZ before they decimated the program.

        1. lisawines

          Thanks very much. But she also helped take care of and protect my house (until I finally had to short-sell it at a huge loss), so it was a win-win.

  8. Dr. Nick Riviera

    Slightly OT but still in the vein of Republicans are assholes: did anyone watch the Jon Stewart/Rubio 45 minute interview where Rubio claimed compromise doesn't mean both sides get something? Wingnuts have been trumpeting this interview as an example of how awesome Rubio is, how he totally owned etc. I know I'm biased because i can't stand Rubio, but that's not the impression I got.

    1. Designer_Radio

      I specifically deleted that episode, unwatched, from my DVR. I can't stand how sleazy, selfish, amoral, lying, and fraudulent that human is. But for those reasons, I hope Mittens picks him as VP. Talk about skeletons and closets.

    2. Chichikovovich

      Did Stewart ask him to comment on the recently discovered fact (that Rubio claims he was unaware of) that his grandfather just got on a plane from Cuba in 1962 with no documents and was allowed to stay upon landing because an INS agent just made an arbitrary decision not to enforce the law?

      1. BoroPrimorac

        According to Rubio, every immigrant has an individual story. His grandfather having been here illegally is different than some Mexican crossing over the border. It's the "I've got mine, fuck you" of immigration politics. And that, in a nutshell, is why he'll never win over enough Latino voters to ever make an impact on the national level.

    3. PubOption

      "…compromise doesn't mean both sides get something…" Marco knows his republican dogma.

    4. viennawoods13

      Watching it right now… Jon is doing a great job at zinging Rubio. Damn I love Jon. He does a more thoughtful job in these interviews than anyone on the "news" shows.

      1. Designer_Radio

        Certainly you're not saying that the MSM doesn't do their homework!? That they're LAZY? INEFFECTIVE? How could anyone watch this report on ALEC from CBS Evening News and think anything other than "Groundbreaking Journalism"?

        Actually, it was the most inanely pointless piece on a topic so important to our republic that I can remember for at least a week or so…

        1. Chichikovovich

          That's some quality stenography right there. Are the people in the byline the ones that wrote the voice recognition software?

    5. Negropolis

      I saw that interview, and I swear he pulled out the "both sides do it" card half-a-dozen times, as a way to try to appear as if he was giving Jon something. Nothing gets my goat quite like false equivalencies.

  9. el_donaldo

    The only thing you need to know about Pence is that he is truly and utterly stupid. Well, that and he has nice old guy hair. Which is enough to get you elected governor of Indiana.

    1. C_R_Eature

      Stupid is a Feature when your primary aim is to elect and appoint people who will hamstring, monkey-wrench and utterly discredit Government. As opposed to, you know, Governing, that is.

    2. BerkeleyBear

      Pence was being touted as an "leader" of the House a few cycles back. Some twits even said he was part of the "brains" of the organization. Everyone I knew who had ever lived or paid attention to Indiana had a good laugh at that. He barely qualifies as a human being, as far as I can tell.

      But yeah, Mitch Daniels shifted the window to the right pretty effectively on what Hoosiers can expect from a governor. They used to be centrists who were pretty harmless, but the GOP has gotten its way on so many things for the last 8 years that they feel empowered to back an extremist cretin. It's almost as bad as when the Klan ran the state in the 20s.

    3. Negropolis

      How did Daniels win, then? He didn't have any "nice old guy hair" atop his little head, at all.

      God bless Indiana, 'cause someone's got to.

  10. Limeylizzie

    As someone who was ill as a child , was from a poor family, was treated by a neurologist who also happened to be the Queen's doctor, received all the treatment and meds. that were needed, whose mother , when dying, was in a hospice that was free for her and had gorgeous grounds that she looked out at daily and where her 2 children could play, I find it impossible to even vaguely understand what kind of people would deny healthcare to their citizens.

    1. Chichikovovich

      Not just that they would deny it. They would enthusiastically applaud the idea of someone dying because of lacking it.

    2. PubOption

      It's a classic example of the equation of money and speech. Those without money will never speak to a doctor.

    3. sewollef

      Well of course, growing up in the UK with universal healthcare [as I did], means that poor or not, you got access to some of the best care you can get. Without bankrupting your family or worrying about being able to pay the bills.

      It's a system that I took for granted, but despite its faults, I'd take the NHS any time of the day over the system that masquerades as healthcare in this country [the US].

      US healthcare is rotten to the core, unless you're wealthy, in a job with a good plan or er, work for the government, in which case you DO have universal healthcare for you and your family. Exactly like fucker Mitch McConnell does.

      1. PubOption

        As another expatriate Brit, I totally agree with your comments. And to all the Repubs who squawk about the NHS taking months to do a hip replacement, that is infinitely faster than is the case for an uninsured person in the USA.

      2. scvirginia

        I agree that US healthcare is rotten to the core, but the problem isn't just that so many people do not have access to care. The delivery of care itself is horribly damaged by the interference of the insurance companies telling doctors and patients what treatments are okay, the emphasis on fee for services (leading to more unnecessary procedures), but mostly by the assembly line approach to healthcare forced upon healthcare providers by the insurers.

        Not to mention that there is an entire sub-industry revolving around health insurance coding that is tremendously burdensome for patients & healthcare providers. Have a look at the inegalitarian bureaucracy this private sector has invented, & tell me how the health insurance industry benefits patients?

        1. not that Radio

          assembly line approach to healthcare

          If it's good enough for Taco Bell, it's good enough for life-saving medicine.

        2. MosesInvests

          My father, a psychiatrist, got out of private practice because he was sick of insurance companies telling him how long he could hospitalize a suicidal patient, or what medicines to give to psychotic patients. He ended his career at the socialistic VA.

      3. Limeylizzie

        I didn't realise how much I loved the NHS until I lived in a country with nothing even vaguely similar! I took it for granted , as well, but we were very lucky to have it.

        1. Butch_Wagstaff

          I'm thankful that I got treatment as a child thanks to Medicaid. Got treatment for some excruciating ear aches as well for wounds that I got from various misadventures on the farm (I learned that trying to climb up a barbed wire fence is NOT a good idea).

          1. hippie13

            Wasn't it Paul Ryan or some other GOP budgt guy who collected social security when his father died young…and naturally now wants to cut it.

        2. Negropolis

          Well, we have Medicaid and Medicare and the VA, so it's not as if we don't know how to do better. We don't want to do better, and in this case I'm using the imperial we, because I sure as hell want us to do better.

    4. WhatTheHeck

      I’ve been away for over 2 weeks. Did something important happen in this country during that time?

      … wait. Something about a 5-4 decision. Why was it not unanimous? I guess some people will never be enlightened during their lifetimes.

  11. lisawines

    I hate to sound trite but every time I get overwhelmed by the insane/disgusting/cruel/vicious/ignorant news from the right, I repeat to myself, "It is always darkest before the dawn." They've sent out all their flying monkeys because they know it will only take a small group of miscreants and outcasts to throw a little water on them and they will melt into oblivion.

    1. Chet Kincaid

      I sure hope that is the case. But in this age of Social Media, the ever-present xenophobia, racism, jingoism and sexism is instantly available to both participate in and observe. It used to be that you had to snail-mail-subscribe to obscure racist pamphlets and haul your ass out to grubby meetings to indulge your hatred; now it's all endlessly circulated on Facebook, in email, and in comment sections. This trickles up to the point where rightwing politicians feel free to shower unprecedented disdain on those they disagree with, and righty Supreme Court Justices (and their wives) go on the record with their political opinions. Does this simply express the National Undermind, or does it create even more of it?

      1. lisawines

        Very good question. When I saw Obama win as president, I felt like the undercurrent of ignorance, racism, etc., which was always there, started to ooze out like pus from an infected wound (sorry for the analogy). But the haters have been more and more empowered to speak and act openly when their right-wing leaders, guilty of stirring up this mob, gave them permission to do so. Is all of this airing of filth helping to multiply it or when it sees the light of day does it disgust enough people to rise up against it? I'm not sure. Hate/fear of the other/outsider has been with us since the dawn of time and it's a reflection of an unenlightened, unconscious world. Sometimes I think it will be centuries after I die that society will finally grow up enough to be driven by kindness rather than fear or hate.

        1. sullivanst

          Is all of this airing of filth helping to multiply it or when it sees the light of day does it disgust enough people to rise up against it? I'm not sure.

          It could be both. It's no coincidence that not long after Dred v. Scott, we had the Civil War.

        2. scvirginia

          I like your analogy because pus is a sign that the immune system has been activated to heal the infected wound. The wounds that are healing are from slavery & Jim Crow.

          Prejudice & xenophobia are fundamental traits of human nature, but so are tolerance & cooperation, since humans are a contrary lot & we are just as capable of surprising ourselves as of surprising others who think they know us. Social scientists, pollsters & politicians like to think of human nature as something that is stable, quantifiable & predictable, but our capacity for 'containing multitudes' & contradicting ourselves is one of the most beautiful things about humanity, IMO.

      2. BerkeleyBear

        This is one of those questions that no one really has the answer to, but there's some scary evidence that if nothing else, the modern digital age has allowed repressed bigotry to become expressed, open bigotry. Including the recently released work of a grad student that showed that the deviation of vote results in 2008 from voter id rates in several states (in favor of McCain) tracked with a rise in web searches for racist epithets. Still, Obama won, and he has a great shot at re-election, suggesting that the shit fit of the right is not a majority opinion.

        I don't really think that any amount of Fox News can re-entrench the social norms of the 19th and early 20th century (you know, when everyone knew "their place" and we didn't have to deal with the "ugliness" of blacks, browns and women actually exercising their rights). But rather like Norman Lear finding out to his surprise that Archie Bunker was beloved rather than reviled, I think we all have to reconcile ourselves that racial transcendence isn't gonna happen fast.

      3. BoatOfVelociraptors

        Logically, it is the exposition of a cancer on the body politic that largely went unnoticed. While it can lead to a parochial federation of bigots, it also creates democratic pressure, pushing against the various 'isms

      1. C_R_Eature

        Thanks – I love this! I'm pretty Maritime-Centric – having spent the bulk of my time in Canada there – and there's great areas on the map of Canadian geography and sociology that are blank to me. I'd like more of this please. Always ask the Experts.
        Aren't there cross-border Canada Day celebrations up around Detroit or thereabouts?

        1. Chichikovovich

          I'm sure there are celebrations in Windsor, but I'm too busy to make it myself.

          La Chicane is a personal favorite of mine because they are also northerners, not just because of the great music, but in addition because they are, like me, northerners. From Val D'Or in northern Québec rather than northern Ontario, but it's right across the border from where I went to high school. We would ski on a hill close to there, and we got lots of commercials on the local SRC (French CBC) station from Rouyn-Noranda-Val d'Or businesses.

          This is (I believe) their biggest hit – a gripping, but kind of troubling song, a cri de coeur by an abusive boyfriend begging for forgiveness from a woman who is going to leave him. On one hand, you want to grab the woman he's singing to and tell her – "don't listen, pack up and leave", but on the other hand the raw emotion of overwhelming remorse is gripping.
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqEaSVqQF1M

          This one is more fun (sorry – not an actual video, just a photo with music) talking about what a crappy place their home town is. (I have this as my telephone ringtone.):
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDBhGi-E3Lc

          They were a legendary bar band who finally recorded three albums after already establishing a massive reputation across the French-speaking parts of Canada. I had never seen them, but friends of mine raved about them to me. They broke up after the third album when their lead singer Boom Desjardins left for a solo career, which really took off. He's now a major artist in French Canada. (They reformed, I believe, without Desjardins but no new recordings.)

          1. C_R_Eature

            Thank you for helping me fill in the blank spaces! Now I have homework. Cool.

            Photos with Music are just fine, BTW. It's really the Music that counts with me. Thanks again!

          2. Chichikovovich

            OK, here's some more homework, to bring some other regions in. Here's my current favorite on my ipod, a Franco-Ontarian band called "Le Groupe Swing" (or just "Swing"). This one is a cover of a great truck-driving song "CB buddy" from the 1970s by an Acadian band from New Brunswick called 1755 (Easy historical question: What does that number refer to?). The song is about a guy who drives long runs through the Eastern States and back to NS/NB – hence the English voices on the CB. It's striking for the amount of dialect ("icitte" instead of "ici", "pis" instead of "et" fx.) and hilarious anglicisms ("avec un load dedans ma van", "switcher-on mon vieux CB").

            Swing's version is in a style called "techno-trad" that mixes techno music with traditional fiddle-and-stomp French Canadian folk music.
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQh6z7vrXPE

            And here is 1755, in more traditional Acadian style, performing it live:
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMN45jaLX-c&fe

          3. C_R_Eature

            Ah, that's all Good. Thanks!

            I had some great fun with the Acadians in Margaree when we were on a truck camping tour of the Cabot Trail. They all had great moonshine.

            I do have a Serge Gainsbourg disc somewhere, but I'll have to dig for it. Currently, I think that This is the only Francophone song in my collection.

            This is great, in a Kid-in-a Candy-Store way. Thanks again!

          4. PuckStopsHere

            Say, do you happen to know any songs about Quebec liberation? I was in a bar in Quebec City once and they played something which I took to have something to do with the issue because everybody in the place was singing, and it rocked. This would have been around '97…

          5. Chichikovovich

            During the 70s – 80s – 90s 50% of the songs in Québec had some connection to L'independence. After the second lost referendum, plus two generations of Québecois growing up in a confidently francophone Québec, the issue lost a lot of steam with younger people, who find it hard to see what all the fuss was about. Québec's powers within Canada have allowed it sufficient control over its own culture and society that it is no longer clear to them what would be gained by leaving. (Or so I gather from my chums – your mileage may vary.)

            So it could have been a lot of stuff, but as a sample of a kind of participation-heavy sovereigntist song from about that time, just because I love the title (I'm only so-so on the song) we have Les Colocs:
            Passe – moé la puck!
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ3J9rqZnRQ

          6. fuflans

            my mother called me this AM to wish me happy canada day and remind me that now as an official canadian i have to do something celebratory.

            so we pretty much drank all day. i think that works.

          7. viennawoods13

            Yep. Pretty standard. I watched my son and his friends get drunk on Jagermeister bombs. Never seen my son drunk before. He's a happy drunk.

    1. friendlyskies

      And Mexican election day! I never thought I'd say this, but damn am I going to miss Calderón.

          1. C_R_Eature

            You're welcome. Now I'm hungry for Barbequed Iguana, though. All I have here are toads and black snakes and they're just not the same.

          1. C_R_Eature

            No, this is a new on on me! I like it, but I'm a real sucker for cover tunes. The updated lyrics are Ok, but it needs more Barbequed Iguana

          1. C_R_Eature

            Oh, that's a great one by a great band, that I had totally forgotten about. Thanks!

          2. C_R_Eature

            This one's new to me, too and I really like it. Just know these two from X!

            I'm collecting a lot of new favorites today.

      1. Negropolis

        Who in the hell is going to miss Calderon? I realize PRI isn't much better, but they are better nonetheless. They certainly aren't the party they used to be, not even if they wanted to be.

    2. GeorgiaBurning

      You get points on your immigration application for knowing that. It might come in handy the second year of the Romney administration, before the border is closed.

      1. C_R_Eature

        Good to know. I can say "Hoose", "aboot" and "Eh" also, though I'm informed that this is no longer mandatory.

          1. viennawoods13

            Hell, I've been a Canadian for all my 52 years, and a hockey mom for 10 of those, and I still don't know that one.

    3. flamingpdog

      It's also the 149th anniversary of the first day of the Battle of Gettysburg. Those, comme moi, who went to see the new documentary "Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter" at the movie theater yesterday, also know it was the day the vampire forces joined with the Confederate forces to badly maul the Union forces, whereupon Honest Abe confiscated all the silver in the Union states to have it melted down to make silver bullets and bayonets, which allowed the Union forces to make a comeback and win the battle. I love the Wonkette and what you can learn here.

      1. C_R_Eature

        Thanks. The wide ranging knowledge of the Wonkeratti never ceases to amaze me. For instance, I had no idea that the critical nationwide Silver Shortage of 1864 was directly related to having to uprate Union weaponry to battle the Vampires.

        This blog is so educational.

        1. Chichikovovich

          Hmmm…. this presents the Hunt brothers' attempt to corner the world silver market in an entirely new light. Wingnut vampires!

          1. C_R_Eature

            It's entirely prudent to have a stockpile of silver on hand, to ward off vampires, Werewolves and other assorted monsters but I feel that what the Hunt brothers was nothing less than War Profiteering. how many died and were transformed into bloodsuckers because they had no silver? Appalling.

          2. Chichikovovich

            I don't think the Hunt brothers wanted to drive up the price of silver to profit from the struggle against vampires. I think they wanted to make silver unavailable because they were vampires.—

          3. C_R_Eature

            *GASP* The Blood-Sucking Scum!

            How do we know they're not still around? Is there major trading action in the Commodities Market at night?

      2. Chet Kincaid

        "Spoiler Alert" is an Internet tradition of which too few are aware. Congrats, you're right up there with Roger Ebert, who had already ruined this movie for me by revealing the exact same plot-point-that-is-practically-the-whole-fucking-movie.

        1. flamingpdog

          Sorry, I just assumed everybody at the Wonkette knew who won the Battle of Gettysburg.

    4. tessiee

      So I'm watching Season 5 of "Futurama" this morning, and the hunk on Amy's Hunk-a-Day calendar says to her, "Today is Canadian Independence Day".

      Cool, huh?

  12. C_R_Eature

    Dammit, Jamie! You went Full Godwin right out of the gate in this article, so now we all can't have fun with :

    You know Who Else used a national tragedy for political gain?

    Humph.

      1. C_R_Eature

        Absolutely true. Might as well go Full Metal Wingnut, conflate Fascism with Communism and bring up Castro!

          1. Veritas78

            It feels a little cramped in here. What we need is some lebensraum!

            Canada coughs nervously, drums fingers…

          2. Chichikovovich

            A rousing song, fershur, with those lines especially apt during the war of 1812 bicentennial. (Though the reference to "brave fathers" should have been "brave fathers and teenage girls with cows", though I guess it would have wrecked the metre.)

            But calling the maple leaf "the thistle, shamrock, rose entwined" seems to leave out another flower… could it be the lily, tabarnak?

          3. Chichikovovich

            Really? I always figured she was younger. Well, I am now one datum better informed. Good to have a teacher in the building.—

          4. BerkeleyBear

            Yeah, but we've got fucking nukes now and we're the only country ever that's been crazy enough to use them as offensive weapons (as opposed to radiating all sorts of peasants and natives in "tests" – which of course we did too). If I was a Canuckistani, I'd worry about neo-cons regaining control of foreign policy for just this reason – because with Mexican immigration on the wane and no great desire to fight another foreign war, the plot of "Canadian Bacon" starts seeming down right appealing to a certain sort of nut.

    1. carolinaswamp

      Hah. You think you're kidding. I've already blocked a "friend" on Facebook for posting a screed about Hitler having instituted universal healthcare as a prelude for genocide. That was right after the thingie about not feeding the animals because it makes them dependent. May God have mercy on South Carolina, because justice would be very very painful indeed.

      1. C_R_Eature

        This is precisely I don't belong to Facebook. Or live any further south.

        I was yelled at and called a "Yankee" in Virginia because my truck had Maryland plates. This was in the early 90's and I can't imagine things have gotten any better.

        1. ThundercatHo

          We moved from Cleveland to a rural area north of Richmond in 2007 and lived there for 3 years. We were welcomed warmly and were always impressed by the friendliness and good manners of almost all of the folks we met there. We also got to attend 3 kickass Obama rallies and I got to shake the hand of Bill Clinton.

          1. Geminisunmars

            Richmond?? Isn't that the part of Virginia where the not-real Americans settle?

          2. Geminisunmars

            I musta confuzed “real Amerkun” with “real Virginia”. I'll have to confer with Mrs. Palin.

          3. Butch_Wagstaff

            I recall that, in 2008 after she was picked as a VP candidate, there was a rally here and she was the "star". I think it was held at Tuckahoe Middle School, if I remember right. Well, that's out in Henrico Co. Heaven forbid that they should have had it in…say, downtown Richmond which has all sorts of non-whites walkin' about. That would probably have made Sarah a bit too uncomfortable.

          4. Butch_Wagstaff

            It's true. You can hear all the old Confederates buried in Hollywood Cemetery spinning in their graves all the way out in Henrico County.

          5. Negropolis

            Isn't everything north of Richmond basically NoVa or at least soon-to-be NoVa or NoVa influenced, these days? Virginia has probably changed more than any other state over the previous decade or two. If you'd have even told me in 2000 that Dems would be contesting VA, I'd have called you crazy. Thank god for suburban DC.

        2. scvirginia

          Lived in Richmond in the 90's for a year & was saddened/amused by how many folks there heard I was from SC & tried to impress me with Richmond's southern cred by telling me that it was the former capitol of the Confederacy. Much overcompensation for their geographical location in the Mid-Atlantic if you ask me, & way more racial segregation than I'd previously encountered.

          (Not intended to be a blanket statement- I met some very cool folks in Richmond & all generalizations are false.)

        3. flamingpdog

          I'll bet you $10K of Romoney's bucks that it was in Tidewater VA where you got called a Yankee. Williamsburg, where I spent four years, is only 60 miles from Richmond, but it's a different world. In Colin Woodard's book, "American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America" [caveat, I have only read a magazine article he wrote based on his book], Tidewater, Virginia is one of the eleven nations. Similar mentality to the Deep South, but somewhat different origin.

          1. C_R_Eature

            You win the Golden Medallion of Southern Understanding for that one! I bow to your expertise!

            Yelled at my dog, too.

      2. Butch_Wagstaff

        One "friend" of mine on fb (yes, a former classmate of mine who I haven't seen in about 20 yrs) seems to think that if you don't get health insurance under the ACA, you'll be put in jail.
        To be fair, though, he did admit that he didn't really "understand" the ACA or what the SC ruling meant.

        1. RavenRant

          Everyone should stop exaggerating all the time. That's what's always getting everyone killed.

    1. Chichikovovich

      You should of resisted the urge. They're the same thing for all intensive purposes, and the distinction is in its last throws anyway.

        1. tessiee

          Saying that you "could care less" when what you really mean is that you *couldn't* care less?
          THAT's a nice way to talk!
          Oh, wait.
          I mean, that's NOT a nice way to talk…
          I'm so embarrassed now.

      1. not that Radio

        Well, irregardless, it's out there. We must grab the bull by the metaphors.

        1. Chichikovovich

          True. That's actually one of the tenants of my philosophy.

          (It's not, like, published or anything.)

  13. johnnyzhivago

    Let's face it, it's not about insuring the uninsured, or being humane, doing the right thing. It's all about getting rid of the blah guy in the White House.

    Plain and simple!

    1. Biel_ze_Bubba

      All it will take is the Hiroshima of elections, this November.

      Although personally, I'm hoping to see the Hindenberg of conventions in Tampa. (Oh, the huge manatees!)

  14. johnnyzhivago

    Hey, guys and gals, what's the BEST comment to put on a friends moronic FB posting of Ron Paul saying "when the government makes medical decisions for you, then the gubbermint now owns your body".

    Please be creative!!!

      1. Biel_ze_Bubba

        You get executive treatment? Mine, apparently, is owned by a gaggle of low-level clerks in Aetna's claims denial division.

    1. Dr. Nick Riviera

      I prefer to let some ignorant pharmacist decide which medications prescribed by my doctor I do or do not receive.

      1. finallyhappy

        This happened once with our insurance co- the person wasn't a pharmacist. My husband ripped this woman a new one

        1. Swampgas_Man

          But– but, you might be forcing that insurance person to approve a drug THAT CONFLICTS W/ HIS/HER BELIEFS!!

    2. C_R_Eature

      "I demand to have Insurance Company Bureaucrats deny me healthcare, and not have Government Bureaucrats ensure my healthcare!

    3. Negropolis

      So, what happens when the private sector insurance companies make medical decisions for you?

  15. Rotundo_

    The tap dancing that Boehner did when asked for specific portions of the bill was pretty amazing: trying to explain that he was for eliminating pre-existing conditions while wanting to kill the bill in it's entirety was rhetorical gymnastics at an almost surreal level. Kind of like when you ask them about the sanctity of life versus the death penalty, or privacy, or almost anything they spout off about these days. Defending the indefensable is hard work people…

  16. Chet Kincaid

    Insane reactions like this make it astonishingly clear how much the wingnut politicians take their own distortions seriously. It's one thing to cynically push the hot buttons of the people who contribute and vote; it's another thing to actually believe this garbage. Republican politicians are becoming a bunch of destructive Tony Montanas, high on their own supply of bullshit. This won't end well for any innocent bystanders.

    1. Dr. Nick Riviera

      This is exactly why that Rubio/Stewart interview blew my mind. I couldn't believe he sat there and tried again and again to say it was the Democrats' fault they filibustered so much, and compromise does not mean both sides get something, and the deficit determines growth…I just…can't believe someone actually buys that crap.

      1. OldWhiteLies

        This evidence-free mind set that Mr. Rubio so exemplifies, has allowed the Republican platform to itself devolve into a religion. Republicanism. They don't need religions as a subset any longer.

        1. Negropolis

          So true. The "free" market is god, now. Whatever it decides is the right thing…even when you realize that it's so thoroughly manipulated by a few entities that it's not even funny. They really do speak about the market and capitalism, in general, as if it's some mystic deity.

          1. Biel_ze_Bubba

            If you're broke, and sick, the free market would just as soon put you down — there's no profit in feeding you, let alone curing you.

      2. BerkeleyBear

        Don't for a second think he buys it, in the sense of actually engaging in a rational process and analyzing evidence. Think of it as rationalizing a deep need to win at all costs. There are a lot of frustrated alpha males in Congress who see it as nothing more than another competition, rather than as something with actual consequences that matter. Given that they view themselves as products of hard work and desire (realities be damned) they don't have a lot of room for compassion for the less fortunate or less successful – unless, of course, they are immediate family members. Those losers can get all the help they need.

      3. tessiee

        "compromise does not mean both sides get something"

        This, in the same week that Rand Paul said that just because the Supreme Court decides that something is Constitutional doesn't actually mean that it is?

        'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'

        1. scvirginia

          `When I make a word do a lot of work like that,' said Humpty Dumpty, `I always pay it extra.

        2. viennawoods13

          You keep using that word "compromise". I do not think it means what you think it means.

      4. miss_grundy

        Rubio is a stupid cubanito, and I know how stupid cubanitos can be. Because mami tells her little boy that he is a king, he actually believes the bullshit and thinks that his way is the only way. Kind of reminds you of Ross Perot, if he can't play the game his way, he'll pick up his ball and go home. The only problem is these stupid GOPers won't go home.

          1. not that Radio

            With any luck, yes, some will land in the eye. And he may choke on some of the splinters, too.

            But the more pedestrian meaning, to gesture without landing a blow to draw one's opponent or create an opening is just as apt, particularly with regard to the threat (not use) of filibusters.

          2. C_R_Eature

            Ah yes, the dual definitions make the comment all the more brilliant. A Threadwinning Gold Star Medallion to you!

            This Senate "Gentlemans Agreement on the Rules" thing has gotten really fucked. All one Senator has to do is whisper "Fillibuster" like some incantation and everything grinds to a halt. No way to run a society.

    2. BoroPrimorac

      They don't take their distortions seriously. This is what Republican politicians have to say now in order to convince their Zombie base that they're just as nuts as they are.

      1. Chet Kincaid

        How do you know they don't? There are some things you don't say as a public figure unless you are too crazy to know how insane you look — for example, that a Supreme Court decision is equivalent to 9/11. There are about 20 levels below that level of crazy that you could choose which would still deliver the requisite dog-whistle.

        1. doloras

          Louis Althusser and Blaise Pascal agree: if you kneel in the church and pretend to pray for long enough, you'll believe in God. Or similarly: you can't tell lies for any sustained period of time without beginning to believe them, especially if you are rewarded with donations and class privileges for doing so.

      1. Jus_Wonderin

        I decided to stay away after my expression of frustration. I am reading. Specifically, “Her Pilgrim Soul” by Alan Brennert. Anyone familiar with the story? Almost done and I might just…cry. Hulk, cry, too.

  17. viennawoods13

    So… anyone blame the storm on God's wrath against Roberts et al? I'm sure it's only a matter of time.

    1. neiltheblaze

      That's ok – we can always claim the Colorado Springs fires are God's wrath against Focus on the Family.

      1. thatsitfortheother1

        Fuckus and the rest of the fundies are out on the prairie. Needs moar prairie fire.

    2. C_R_Eature

      The exact same thing occurred to me this morning. I'm expecting Pat Robertson or some RW Radio Ranter to go off – sometime real soon – that God Smote Washington DC because the US Government enacted modest long term health insurance reform.
      It makes just as much and as little sense as anything else they choose to Rant about.

      I would like to know, however, why God is choosing to burn down the modern day Holy City of Colorado Springs.

        1. C_R_Eature

          Now, I knew there was some way to blame this on the Godless Liberals. Good thinking.

          1. C_R_Eature

            Gah, Hippies! I'll bet they just go and pay their taxes without complaining and protesting, like some dammed liberal fascist communists. The House should re-activate HUAC, if they haven't done so already!

          2. Negropolis

            And all those gays and blahs and messicans Denver tolerates. Also, Boulder. Also, the celebrities of Aspen, too.

    3. SheriffRoscoe

      The foul weather is only affecting conservative states. The weather is actually very pleasant out here in liberal, godless, hedonistic San Francisco.

          1. scvirginia

            Hey, I'm here for ya!

            "South Carolina is too small for a republic and too large for an insane asylum." –James Petigru

          1. scvirginia

            Unusual because generally by now we've been through at least a month or so of sauna weather, whereas this year the weather has been remarkably temperate. But I think the steam heat is going to catch up to us this week, so gloat all you want from here out, ya pinko commie…

    1. neiltheblaze

      There's a Republican woman I know who is sincerely relieved that her two kids in their early 20's can stay on her health insurance – and was hoping the bill wouldn't get overturned. And she knows Romney would like to repeal it. She's torn – but that's a far cry from where she was just a year ago, when Obama could do nothing right in her eyes.

      As every hysterical lie about the bill gets punctured by the real life benefits for real life people – regular folks will embrace it more and more.

      And not one bit of it will be overturned. For all their bluster, Repiglicans don't have the votes to repeal squat.

      1. TribecaMike

        I suspect that within four or five years the average Repub will take the new health care rules for granted, just like they did Medicare.

    2. hippie13

      We have all been terrorist since the NATO fun in chicago where theylocked people up for having empty bottles, gasoline and laundry detergent in their garage….al queda is everywhere.

    1. TribecaMike

      Thanks, I caught him at the Hotel Congress, or perhaps some other joint, a little while back. Wherever it was, I and the rest of the audience were drunk, so many of the details have been lost in the shadows of the Rincons. But I was impressed.

      Here's one for you on this fine day… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQrQjNNZCAo

  18. coolhandnuke

    Attn Mike Pence:
    Republicans: Ignored key classified information on terrorist threats prior to 9/11. Top Republican sat dumbfounded reading a children's book for 25 minutes after his aides told him the Country was under attack. Attacked the wrong country in retaliation. The attack/invasion(s) lasted 8 and half years and cost 4 trillion dollars and counting.

    Democrats: Killed the guy responsible for 9/11.

    1. Woodshedding

      Fukkin Dems, don't even take time to devote to the children. Clearly, Kenyans have no family values.

  19. Woodshedding

    This would be a fantastic article were it not for the fact that healthcare is NOT the opposite of murder; in fact, it's the best definition we have OF murder.

    The combo of correctly prescribed/taken pharmaceuticals plus medical malpractice is literally the #1 killer of Americans. Some 80,000 per year offed by malpractice alone, EVERY YEAR, compared to 3,000 who've died in a Cheney attack once in the last 11 years. Look it up! Somebody said it so I know it must be true!

    Well, OK, it's a fantastic article anyway, as are all of Wonkette's. I'm just feeling dramatic. Where's my coffee?

  20. sbj1964

    I have learned over the last few years;Never underestimate the ignorance of the American electorate,or our fellow Americans.The GOP lame stream faithful.Mittenistas.

    1. C_R_Eature

      I am saving this guide, for good use and amusement later. One of my favorite Canada stories was when the government had a write in competition to rename the Northwest Territories and for a good long time the leading candidate was "Bob" (Bottom of the Barrel). I hope this story's not apocryphal.

    2. OldWhiteLies

      Something I Did Not Know About Canada:

      Loverboy is (was) Canadian? [Hears in head the three cowbell hits + crash that start Working for the Weekend - will have song in head all day now; mebbe longer]

      And, lighting toes on fire as candles actually sounds fairly inventive, also.

        1. OldWhiteLies

          Today, Sir, I drink to you. You have succeeded in identifying a song I loved the first time I heard it, but not having heard it much after, never knew who did it. Another I can add to my "Holy shit, so that's who did that song!" collection of treasures on my ipod.

          Most assuredly does not need moar cowbell.

          Cheers!

          1. viennawoods13

            It's ma'am, but I accept your thanks. always happy to spread the gospel of the Kings- this is truly one of my favorite songs.

          2. OldWhiteLies

            Noted. Ma'am 'tiz then. And I shall further explore this band as time allows. Many thanx.

    3. BerkeleyBear

      That was so utterly brilliant. I especially like the Ontario as serial killer thought, having visited Toronto and been slightly put off by the nice factor (sort of like when visiting the Midwest, as long as you have some random connection to the place).

      Although I gotta say, the Alberta explainer doesn't nearly do justice to the redneck factor in that glorious corner of the world. It's like Oklahoma north, only the football isn't as good.

    4. TribecaMike

      O Canada! where pines and maples grow,
      Great prairies spread, and lordly rivers flow.
      How dear to us thy broad domain,
      From East to Western sea.
      The land of hope for all who toil,
      The True North strong and free!

          1. C_R_Eature

            Dammed right! The man's a wizard with Duct Tape.

            Touring! Thanks! I just might drop in.

    5. scvirginia

      If you're going to be our guide to all things Canadian, can you explain why Ottawans have such an aversion to street signs? I drove up once to visit a friend there, & quickly realized that maps are just decorative if you can't use them to find out where you are…

    6. BlueStateLibel

      Sometimes I wonder what Canadians really think about Americans, like the nutjob who's the subject of this post, Mike Pence. Do they think we're just crazy, or just mean, or both?

  21. GeneralLerong

    "It’s like they have a word bank of crap that octogenarians are afraid of and they just randomly pull it out every time something they don’t like happens. JOE BIDEN IS A BLACK TEENAGER! SANDRA FLUKE IS AN ABORTION!"

    Made me grin so hard I got a cramped jaw. Maybe some champagne and orange juice will fix that…

  22. PuckStopsHere

    I'll be stunned if Pence doesn't find himself the defendant in a copyright infringement lawsuit filed by Rudy Gulliani. Rudy OWNS 9/11, and everybody knows it.

    1. TribecaMike

      If that ever came about, Rudy had better make sure such a suit wouldn't find itself in a courtroom here in NYC, since most of us know he's a lying, conniving attention whore.

      1. not that Radio

        And besides, you could countersue for his unauthorized use of nouns and verbs.

  23. labman57

    Giuliani is especially upset over Pence's comments, as Rudy had trademarked all references to "9/11" in political speeches.

  24. BigSkullF*ckingDog

    I would really like to know what JonWhoDoesn'tComment has to say about this.

    1. OldWhiteLies

      Hear, hear!

      (Or here, here, as in get your ass in here with the rest of us and "avatar up" Jon)

    2. OldWhiteLies

      I'd also like to take an opportunity to mention how much I enjoyed our get-together, and apologize for my abrupt departure; having myself been so adamant about keeping the party going. Our neighbors chose last evening for the first act of their annual BoomBoomHoliday bottle-rocket tit-4-tat exchange; essentially terrorizing our almost 14yo dog, and other neighbors. My previous stint as HOA preznit leaves me still as the De-escalator, if you will. (Acts 2 and 3 of BoomBoomDayB-Rocket fest will assuredly follow on Tuesday and Wednesday.)

      I want to sincerely thank you all for your company and humor (or humour, as the case be, STP). It was a most welcome respite. I shall very much look forward to another opportunity to share, laugh and banter, long into evening; though perhaps in a venue that allows us all to hear one-another without the need for shouting or bull-horns. The echo of our respective laughter bouncing off the walls seems to me much better accompaniment then even what was some fairly good jazz.

      Cheers.

      1. emmelemm

        No apologies necessary. Having been formerly a president of a (condo) HOA, I know the fun never ends!!

        I very much enjoyed meeting you (and everyone else). We should definitely do it again, possibly in a quieter venue, no rabbit food.

      2. savethispatient

        There's a holiday happening on Wednesday? I really need to start reading my immigration booklet…

        I don't often do sincere comments, but a big thumbs up for all the nice things everyone else has said, I heartily agree.

        1. BigSkullF*ckingDog

          Yes, we will celebrate our independence by gorging on red meat, getting drunk an blowing shit up. Yee Haw!

          I also really enjoyed meeting everyone last night. Most of you are not weird at all!

          1. Biel_ze_Bubba

            "Most of you are not weird at all!"

            That may seriously cut down on attendance at future events.

  25. StanleyPain2

    There should be a new attachment to Godwin's Law that if you're a Republican, you have to mention Nazis or 9/11 right at the beginning of an argument.

    1. Biel_ze_Bubba

      Think of the time we'd save, by tuning them out immediately!
      Heck, mark 'em with a swastika 卐 so we don't have to read anything.

  26. Chow Yun Flat

    One of the many problems with using the "_________ is as bad as 9/11" analogy is that 9/11 isn't as bad as 9/11 since it has become another right-talking point.

  27. Kaia Mursi

    Mike Pence is very disturbing. I wish his district had chosen someone else. I realize that he’s a shameful part of American history that we should never forget, but he’s too much.

    1. tessiee

      Maybe next time he comes back, he'll take paying back his debts a little more seriously.

  28. BarackMyWorld

    Mike Pence is to critical thinking what Mitt Romney is to intellectual consistency.

    1. coolhandnuke

      'To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.' – Thomas Paine

  29. AlterNewt

    What will the next 'WORST THING EVER' be? There have been so many. Kind of like Orange Alerts, or car alarms.

  30. not that Radio

    'Twas hitler and the 9/11
    did 9/11 in the wabe
    all nazi were the terrorists
    and the stalin abu graib.

  31. tessiee

    "are Republicans even trying anymore? It’s like they have a word bank of crap that octogenarians are afraid of and they just randomly pull it out every time something they don’t like happens. JOE BIDEN IS A BLACK TEENAGER! SANDRA FLUKE IS AN ABORTION!
    [...]
    These assholes are just running out of scary analogies. If there is another attack on America, I might believe it was an inside job by Republicans so they could have something to compare gay marriage to when it finally gets legalized."

    A+++

  32. flamingpdog

    I'm in the mood to think positively. Think of how much better off we'd be if four planes had crashed into Republican Congressman Mike Pence on 9/11 instead. Or any day.

  33. DahBoner

    Calling all patriotic First Responders to mace these assholes in the face.

    For Jesus, 10-4, my little Jewish buddy…

  34. TribecaMike

    At the moment, Italians are comparing their chances of winning the Euro Cup to the 1944 Warsaw Uprising.

    Update: At 4-nil Espana, Italians are now going the full olocausto.

      1. BoatOfVelociraptors

        You know they have the old Rainer brewery r down at the red door in Fremont?Thanks

    1. weejee

      Glad to have the chance to meet you all. Mrs. weejee & I had to duck early (pre-hangover point) as we spent all day Sunday helping #4 son & family move.

  35. chascates

    Roberts switched views to uphold health care law http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-3460_162-57464549/rob
    CBS News) Chief Justice John Roberts initially sided with the Supreme Court's four conservative justices to strike down the heart of President Obama's health care reform law, the Affordable Care Act, but later changed his position and formed an alliance with liberals to uphold the bulk of the law, according to two sources with specific knowledge of the deliberations.

    Roberts then withstood a month-long, desperate campaign to bring him back to his original position, the sources said. Ironically, Justice Anthony Kennedy – believed by many conservatives to be the justice most likely to defect and vote for the law – led the effort to try to bring Roberts back to the fold.

    "He was relentless," one source said of Kennedy's efforts. "He was very engaged in this."

    But this time, Roberts held firm. And so the conservatives handed him their own message which, as one justice put it, essentially translated into, "You're on your own."

    The conservatives refused to join any aspect of his opinion, including sections with which they agreed, such as his analysis imposing limits on Congress' power under the Commerce Clause, the sources said.

      1. RavenRant

        Also interesting, what motivated Kennedy to suddenly go full wingnut. Could it be $$$?

      2. Callyson

        A HuffyPo blogger speculates the following:

        Roberts may have voted to save healthcare because he wants to preserve the Court's capital to take on other big issues heading toward the Court. Legal experts predict the Roberts Court will invalidate a key provision of one of the most important laws in American history, the Voting Rights Act, next term. And the Court is set to end affirmative action in public education. Both policies have been centerpieces of America's commitment to civil rights for over 40 years.

        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/adam-winkler/the-ro

        Le sigh…

        1. Designer_Radio

          Le sigh is right. Le tragic, too.

          I also heard an opinion on NPR about how that whole Scalia talking about Obama's immigration executive order in the AZ SB1070 ruling might have pissed Roberts off too, but that was just a week ago, not a month ago (when Roberts reportedly changed his mind).

    1. tessiee

      "The conservatives refused to join any aspect of his opinion,
      *including sections with which they agreed*"

      This right here pretty much tells you everything you need to know about the mindset and M.O. of conservatives nowadays, doesn't it?

        1. Negropolis

          It's as much horse-trading as what happens in any congressional conference committee. That's really sad, actually.

        1. C_R_Eature

          Yes, for now. I predict a Vigorous Scrubbing in the Comments section when the Supervisor of their sad, pubescent Intern webmaster finally notices the Naughty Comments and erupts in a paroxysm of Fear and Loathing.

          1. not that Radio

            As does Don Seymour, MOD. He's posted about 16 versions of the same comment, all of which describe some fictitious Republican health care plan, which they will implement, they swear, just as soon as they control the Senate and the Presidency.

          2. C_R_Eature

            I saw several of his posts hours ago, replying to people who voiced genuine disagreements with the R's position. Assumed he was the Site Moderator & was being paid to rebut negative comments. Now it looks like only the latter is true.

          3. not that Radio

            The one does not preclude the other. He may still be the site moderator. If so, he's about as effective as his boss.

          4. C_R_Eature

            Now I see that your Merry Band has been careening through Boehner's site like Vandals through the Roman market.

            Way to go. Did they not expect this?

          5. C_R_Eature

            And now you've gotten me involved in this you sick bastard. I've been having so much fun over there it should be criminalized. all your fault.

          6. not that Radio

            We couldn't wait for you any longer. Where the hell have you been? You almost missed a classic warblogging!

          7. Chichikovovich

            Dear Don Seymour, MOD*

            Y'know, I remember back when the Clintons were trying to get universal health care established. And the Republicans said "Oh, no we are very, very, very, very concerned about health care. But not this bad Clinton plan. We have a much better plan, from the Heritage Foundation, which we will pass as soon as we get the chance. Because we really really really really really care about health care. And we have a plan. Bob Dole made the plan part of his presidential campaign. He was a Republican, you may recall."

            That was almost 20 years ago. During that time, the Republicans held the Presidency for eight years, and the Senate and House much of that time too. And they never mentioned their plan again. They had a dedicated propaganda channel on Fox News that never mentioned the plan again. For 20 years these people who really, really, really, really, really cared about health care didn't mention it at all. Even though when it was being debated back then they said they had a plan that they would put in place instead.

            That plan was Obamacare/Romneycare. So why should we think you are any less dishonest about your "plan" this time. At least back then there actually was a plan you weren't serious about.

            As a man you once revered to the point of idolatry once said: "Fool me once, shame on, shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

            Yours,
            Chichikovovich

            *(Which I guess means that he's not a ROCKER)

        2. chascates

          Don Seymour with a 'MOD' icon replied to my Newt Gingrich post:

          Hello Newt Gingrich. Here's a FactCheck.org piece on how Members of Congress and federal workers pay for their health care: http://www.factcheck.org/2009/... After repealing the president's health care law, Republicans hope to enact step-by-step reforms focused on lowering costs so that high quality health care is more affordable for all Americans.

          1. not that Radio

            What an earnest concern troll! That must be nice for him, to have those delusions.

          2. not that Radio

            That would make sense. Republicans have pretty low standards for everything else. Why not for blog comment moderation, too?

            Does that mean I get to wield a banhammer?

          3. C_R_Eature

            I believe Frank, or one of his surrogates, named that one. Aptly. Just the thing to use to drive people from the room. I break up in helpless laughter every time I hear it, it's that bad.

          4. finallyhappy

            well, yes, many poor/low income/pre-existing condition people will die and high quality health care will be more affordable for the right Americans.

          5. not that Radio

            There's a commenter going by "the_publius" who has responded to one of my comments with an insane barrage of republican fever dream talking points. Could that be THE publius? Have I awakened a sleeping giant? Or is it a case of "I'm Publius, and so is my wife"?

          6. C_R_Eature

            …insane barrage of republican fever dream talking points.

            Sounds just like publius to me. Unless it's a cloistered Monk with poor typing skills who just meant to post "the_pubeless".

          7. not that Radio

            I would believe a cloistered Monk with poor typing skills.

            "I was born natural, but I was raised Caesarean."

          8. flamingpdog

            MIke Pence just responded to publius. Hell, this is more fun than teh Wonkette. See y'all later!

          9. not that Radio

            It's a stone-cold looney bin over there! This is freakin awesome. Thanks, guys and gals.

          10. flamingpdog

            It's kind of like a late-60s meeting of the SDS, where 3/4 of the attendees are undercover cops and FBI agents.

          11. radio-of-owls

            This could be even better than this hollowed shell…but only if custerwolf doesn't beat a slime trail over there.

          12. tessiee

            "After repealing the president's health care law, Republicans hope to enact step-by-step reforms focused on lowering costs so that high quality health care is more affordable for all Americans."

            So first they're going to *repeal* a law providing low-cost, high-quality health care, and then they're going to what?, *pass* a law providing low-cost, high-quality health care? Are they going to cross out Obama's name on the ACA, and write their own on it in crude crayon printing? "Yeah, ours is gonna be affordable, too, and plus, it won't be, like, all black and stuff, and look, we put this cool racing stripe on it, and anyway, we thought of it first."

          1. C_R_Eature

            "I'm Weedlord Bonerhitler and I approved this message"

            I'd like to see a series of YouTube Campaign commercials for Mr WlBh.
            I was actually W.L.B.H. for almost two weeks. No one noticed.

          2. not that Radio

            I don't care how many times I look at that thing. It never ceases to be funny. It's like an endless whoopie cushion of hilarity. It's a 21st-century Joy Buzzer.

          3. C_R_Eature

            It has exactly the same effect on me. Still. It's a perfect mix of Rude, Counterculture and Bizarre memes.

    1. C_R_Eature

      It looks as if Frank Burns and Rush Limbaugh just posted replies over there. Somebody is not taking this Government site seriously and it just ruins it for all of us.

      1. not that Radio

        Those were you?!?!? Strong work.

        It's been fun as shit upfisting all the pranksters and downfisting all the earnest teabaggers. They have no idea what hit them.

        1. Designer_Radio

          Very entertaining. I finally gave up the ghost and just started posting as my usual avatar. Fuck 'em. I wonder if Publius will consider my position on bureaucracies. Probably not.

          1. not that Radio

            Probably not. But at least he has the courage to post under his real name. And he's not a hypocrite, or anything.

      1. not that Radio

        I know. I'm conflicted between downfisting all the overly earnest people, and upfisting the ones who have the right ideas in their hearts. Poor Phyllis.

        1. Designer_Radio

          Did you catch this metaphor(?) that I've never heard before?

          A shark with no teeth may as well swim in a muddied pond. <a href="http://goo.gl/UPr1N

          ” target=”_blank”>http://goo.gl/UPr1N I replied, "what about the mud sharks now?" I just assume the Repeal & Replacers are so dyed in the wool racist, they don't even realize their subconscious is giving them words to write that amount to a REM sleep dream's cryptic version of "Obummerz a mud shark".

          1. tessiee

            "A shark with no teeth may as well swim in a muddied pond."

            What? Why? I could understand if they said a shark with no *eyes*, since muddy water would be hard to see through, but why a shark with no teeth? Are muddied ponds populated by teeny little fish that a toothless shark could swallow whole?

            As sayings go, I prefer: "It is better to be healthy and wealthy than to be poor and sick".

    2. C_R_Eature

      Things have gone far, far around the Bend down there as of now. This is why we can't have Nice Things.

      Nice work.

    3. radio-of-owls

      FYI dizzy kids: unlike the fascist monsters at Intense Debate, our rawhide chew-toy friend allows you to up and downfist 'til your evil little heart's content, after a brief interval, you know, for respect and all.

        1. flamingpdog

          Mike Pence just called the-pubelius a hypocritical dickhead . Well not in those words, but it made Mike feel a little better after reading his/her/both's horseshit about government service.

        2. radio-of-owls

          AND as of 10:48 a.m. CST, the brilliant and diligent little minions of Oliver's Army are evidently off tooting their tin horns and polishing their jackboots rather than tending the garden of Eden.

          Like Wonkett, But Even Better!

          1. not that Radio

            I have that same model of electric piano that Steve Nieve is playing in the video.

            I found that I could even upfist my own comments, multiple times, and I could do it all over again from my work computer. They have a lot to learn, apparently.

          2. not that Radio

            Oh, man. It's gotten crazy over there. Publius and "Reagan was Right" are trying to mop up the mess we made last night.

  36. chascates

    From National Review Online:

    Roberts’ change of heart was almost certain to have been driven by left-wing media anger around the possibility that the law would be overturned. Roberts reads the papers, and is very concerned about the Court’s image.

    Roberts tried to lobby Kennedy to join him and leave the other conservatives, but Kennedy refused.

    The conservative dissent was not originally written as a majority opinion, as some have speculated, but reads strangely because the conservatives refused to acknowledge Roberts’s opinion.

    Perhaps, the next time a Republican president nominates a Supreme Court justice, he should make the candidate swear to never pick up a newspaper.

    The bottom line, if Jan Crawford is right, is that conservative justices can be blackmailed by left-wing editorialists. It’s not a pretty picture

    1. Dashboard Buddha

      What is this moron smoking? Anger driven by left wing media…I didn't know Kos had that kind of reach.

    2. Negropolis

      Jan Crawford? You mean the reporter who got the verdict wrong on CNN? Yeah, if Jan Crawford is right, indeed.

      John Roberts is not some shrinking violent, and he's certainly not going to let his fee-fees get hurt by some big, bad liberals. Are people forgetting how often John Roberts has given the middle finger to the American people? I'm not so worried to see conservatives turn on him, because they don't know any better. I'm worried that so many liberals seem to be buying the new narrative that he is somehow our friend. He's not. Never has been, nor will he ever be.

    3. Biel_ze_Bubba

      "The conservative dissent . . . reads strangely because the conservatives refused to acknowledge Roberts’s opinion."

      Spewed out their dissent without acknowledging the other side at all. That sounds very …. Republican. Not that they're partisan or anything.

  37. chascates

    wakeupamericans-spree.blogspot.com
    If Supreme Court Justices can be bought off with the offer of good publicity vs bad, they lose their status as an independent branch of the government.

    This is much worse than if Robert's had genuinely believed that the individual mandate was unconstitutional as written by Democrats and sold to the American people by Barack Obama, under the Commerce and Necessary and Proper Clauses, but was validated by being a tax.

    americanclarion.com
    Judges shouldn’t be swayed by anything other than the law. They shouldn’t be listening to pundits, pandering to liberals, trying to make peace with people who despise the law and the Constitution, or trying to impress elitists who are only impressed by those who despise the American way of life. Unfortunately, the reality is that with the modern substandard level of thinking and loyalty to ethics, being swayed by perceptions instead of law has become the norm.

    I can only imagine the disgust and outrage the founders would express if they could see how low their posterity has descended. The men who resisted the most powerful empire on earth, to forge a freedom unprecedented in world history…to be replaced by a posterity that would eagerly run into the embracing arms of tyranny. Perhaps it is good for them that they are long gone, and do not have to face the heartbreak of seeing what their progeny has done to their legacy. I can only hope there are enough patriots left to restore faith in their sacrifices, come November 2012.

    1. flamingpdog

      Sorry, I can no longer read your posts. Like the wingnut videos the editrix and her servants post, they are just too nauseating.

    2. finallyhappy

      wow, wouldn't it be awesome if the founders were still alive cause they would be vampires or aliens or something. Patriots- fat white people in ugly flag shirts and stupid hats

      1. chascates

        I have some 'graphic novel' that has an undead guy that's the Devil's hitman or something who rides a bike that has a horse's head on the front of it. That's what I see the Founders as. Riding as a gang through the night, appearing only to small children and cats and doing good deeds. Plus whoring it up and making indie CDs.

        1. tessiee

          "an undead guy that's the Devil's hitman or something who rides a bike that has a horse's head on the front of it."

          this is the coolest thing I've heard in many a moon.

    3. Biel_ze_Bubba

      Sadly, zombie Thomas Jefferson isn't around to explode these fuckwads' heads, by telling them exactly what he thinks of Scalia, Thomas, et al.

  38. chascates

    fireandreamitchell.com
    So it looks like it’s true. SCOTUS Justice John Roberts was in fact against ObamaCARE and ready to strike it down before he was for it. It seems that all the progressive liberal Democrat smears and threats, worked on Roberts, as he was in fact ready to vote to kill ObamaCARE. Instead, according to CBS’ (two sources) Roberts changes his mind and his vote, and ObamaCARE is now the biggest middle class tax hike in American history. If the Chicago way works on Supreme Court Justices now, they we are really in deep doodoo.

    And even Musician Charlie Daniels is upset (this is before hearing of Roberts' switch): http://musicians4freedom.com/Tag/chief-justice-ro

    1. TribecaMike

      Deep woo doo doo indeedy.

      Charlie Daniels can't be all bad, since he not only played on Dylan's Blonde On Blonde (my favorite record of the sixties) but also produced The Youngblood's Elephant Mountain (my favorite album of the seventies).

      On second thought, after skimming through that insane rant, Charlie can go to hell, with the devil or solo.

      1. flamingpdog

        Like a crippled, drooling, senile old dog, this giant needs to be put to sleep. It's the only merciful thing to do.

          1. Butch_Wagstaff

            Umm…maybe. I was thinking more of the 500-pounder who wakes up to go to the kitchen to microwave four Hot Pockets which causes their trailer to tip. Then they waddle over the computer machine to post a comment on World Net Daily about Hitler Obama that causes the trailer to tip in another direction.

  39. chascates

    International Business Times
    The report — an apparent scoop despite the fact CBS claimed Roberts' shift "is known among law clerks, chambers' aides, and secretaries" — is likely to be politically explosive, as it portrays the conservative justices of the court as heavily political characters, as well as aloof, bickering, and spiteful.
    "Roberts pays attention to media coverage. As chief justice, he is keenly aware of his leadership role on the court, and he also is sensitive to how the court is perceived by the public," CBS wrote.
    Although this point is not spelled out explicitly, the CBS story implicitly raises questions about the effects Roberts' nuanced decision might have on the future of the court as an institution and even the future of American democracy, as well as about the ornery stubbornness of the conservative justices.
    In one example, CBS pointed out the conservative Justice Thomas avoids reading the New York Times, the U.S. newspaper of record, to avoid being influenced by liberals.

    1. flamingpdog

      I kind of doubt Slappy reads anything other than Coke cans and gay equine porno literature these days.

  40. chascates

    Hot Air is suspicious:
    It’s a four page article with a lot to go through, but if you haven’t read it already, it’s probably worth your time. At least… maybe. This story may be true in its entirety, or at least in part, but there are a couple of things which have me holding back on it. First, it relies entirely on two “unnamed sources” which always throws up a red flag. And when it’s something this juicy regarding proceedings which are normally held closer to the vest than anything else in the nation, I have to wonder.

    Second – as you’ll find out after you read through all the tawdry details – this is a dream story for CBS or anyone looking to derail conservatives. It’s got all the elements of a Victorian bodice-ripper: alliances, denials, betrayal, and most importantly it features prominent national conservative figures fighting with each other. The breathless entry about the rest of the “conservative justices” telling Roberts “you’re on your own” is the stuff of liberal journalistic legend.

    When something looks too good to be true, it’s generally worth checking out further. But if it is, the conclusion the authors draw is stunning. The clear implication is that Roberts initially wanted to do away with the mandate but was reading the tea leaves of public opinion and abandoned his initial, principled stand under outside influence and out of a desire to maintain his reputation and that of the court. That’s a pretty serious charge.

    1. BoatOfVelociraptors

      Look at you, aggregating all up in this place. It's like your'e
      Our own, personal, Huffington.

      Someone one reads the news, someone who screws

      contribiuters out of their royalties.

    2. Biel_ze_Bubba

      Funny how the "initial" stand is the "principled" one … rather than the one arrived at after doing some actual thinking.

      Pretty much sums up the conservative thought process, doesn't it?

    1. TribecaMike

      Hippie freak freethinkers with giant TVs? Somewhere in hell, Abbie Hoffman and his roommate Dean Martin are very jealous (while swilling the best martinis ever concocted).

      By the by, Jamie is the best thing in Magic Mike. Size does matter!

  41. valthemus

    Good grief, Mr. COMMIEstein! You and your lefty laptop (built by Red Chinese, no doubt) should think before you get online and "9/11" conservatives like Mike Pence who is god-fearing and sexy.

    "Trying to end the wars that are killing our soldiers…"

    Dying in battle is noble and brave!

    "… murdering hundreds of thousands of innocent Arabs…"

    We're supposed to *care* about brown people now?

    "… while creating a deep-seeded hatred of this country that may lead to another attack…"

    MAY lead to another attack… a mere possibility. Don't you know it's okay to be short-sighted? You libruls and your hypotheticals!

  42. TribecaMike

    I recently death-paneled my den, and it looks good in a retro-Gestapo kind of way.

      1. TribecaMike

        Nice cartooning, but the story line is confusing. Perhaps this Bass will help…

    1. extreme_left

      I've got bars of stone soap in the bathroom to keep guests on their toes… too soon?

  43. rocktonsam

    the part that I haz a confoosed is all these conservatives luvz jeebus and God and what not but want to come down as hard as possible on people they don;t even know because they love teh moniez. Some of those people get their marching orders from Fox News and will vote for Mittard and the rest.. Get em riled up on a useless vote to repeal WCW and keep on hatin the Black guy. A real head scratcher I tells ya.

    1. flamingpdog

      Come on, every Christard knows that it is easier for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God than for a Camel cigarette to go through the eye of a giant needle.
      - Matthew 19:24, King Koch Version.

  44. chascates

    Forbes magazine has more unfounded speculation about the third branch of government which is also just like high school except everyone on the Court is a nerdy weirdo no one in actual high school wanted anything to do with:
    UPDATE 2: The Volokh Conspiracy lends some insight into the Crawford report. Stewart Baker notes that Vermont Sen. Patrick Leahy (D.), Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, may have been aware that Roberts was the swing vote, because he gave a notably partisan speech on the Senate Floor directed at Roberts—and not mentioning Kennedy—in mid-May. “I have not seen much devoted to the Chief Justice’s role,” warned Leahy. “Why,” asks Baker, “would the chair of the Judiciary Committee risk the appearance of trying to harshly strongarm the Court when his remarks wouldn’t make the slightest difference?” Could Leahy have had inside information?

    Orin Kerr, also at Volokh, makes a persuasive case that Crawford’s sources are not clerks, but actual Supreme Court Justices. “First, law clerks don’t generally chat with Jan Crawford, while several of the Justices have done so publicly. Crawford appears to have particularly good relations with several of the court’s conservative Justices. Here’s Crawford interviewing Justice Thomas, and here’s Crawford interviewing Justice Scalia. Second, a clerk who leaked this and is identified has likely made a career-ending move.”

  45. extreme_left

    Don't know what people are sweating about… statements like this are great exposure for just how 'tarded tards are and make the obsequious media expose that 'tardation even though they would much rather suck poli-cock.

    1. rocktonsam

      the people who should really pay attention to these statements don't.
      they can't. teevee tells them to obey St. Ronnie.
      these people will not make the connection to figure out the hypocrisy.

      1. extreme_left

        yeah I guess the full depth of 'tardation doesn't make it through the Teevee filter and so tards sail on.

  46. Steverino247

    Still on vacation (in the Saratoga area of NY) but had to post that Pence has no penis. Also, happy to read that Barb's grand baby is doing well. Donated my baby daughter's eyes 38 years ago and I don't want to know what they've seen. Hope that helps Barb.

      1. tessiee

        My best friend from high school went to Skidmore, and I used to go visit her in Saratoga Springs. It's a great little college town, and like most of Upstate New York, it's even more beautiful in the summertime.

        1. TribecaMike

          My wife spent a pre-college summer in Saratoga Springs ages ago studying silk screening with some genius who's name escapes me. We love upstate NY and its countryside and characters and dive bars and spend as much time as we can in what I like to call Billy Bathgate territory, though hardly anyone ever gets the reference.

  47. TribecaMike

    Meanwhile in a shambles of an inside-the-Beltway hovel, Newt Gingrich is on his cell phone desperately hitting up Sheldon Adelson for $15 for a few Ben's Chili Bowl hot dogs to tide him over for the night.

  48. ttommyunger

    Taking Limey Lizzie's point in another direction: what kind of people can see treating a sick child, any sick child, as a profit item?

    1. flamingpdog

      Jesus says heal the sick children = a prophet item.
      Christard says heal the sick children if they have the money to pay for the healing, plus 38 percent overhead = a profit item.

      Oh, and sociopaths, too, also.

    2. not that Radio

      I trust Harvard MBAs to make all my life-changing decisions for me. They really know what's best for us, unlike those pesky dedicated public servants.

  49. fivespot

    I'm just all giddy looking forward to some of the red state's exercising of the opt-out clause just they can look like they're sticking it to the (black) man! Talk about the perfect "cut off your nose to spite your face" political masterstroke! "Hey, I know, let's design a bit of policy that will help the lumpen proletariat all across the country, but it'll be so repugnant to their right-wing brainwashing in the south that they'll reject it as 9/11 and socialism, and all die of untreated obesity while sneering at all the healthy pawns of the gov. living productive healthy lives north of the Mason-Dixon.. " etc
    Go Obama. You devil, you.

  50. radio-of-owls

    De las ultimas 20, diez y siete. Casi perfecto, pinche cabroncita! Mas, mas porfa sobre tu, tu, tu, y tu deshuevado esposo. Pero principalmente, por supuesto, TU.

    Me desgusta.

  51. tessiee

    So, as long as we're going around randomly labeling things as the [noun] of [noun], is anything the Monorail Cat of healthcare? Because I think that would just be cute as the dickens.

  52. James Michael Curley

    For decades I worked in jobs for which there was no employer supplied health care insurance. But I was younger and very healthy. However the idea that I may have a health care insurance plan someday was always quite compelling and a goal.

    I am beginning to perceive that a lot of the 'opposition' to the Affordable Care Act is less from the effects or effectiveness but the potential it has to have the same effect on voters that Social Security and the New Deal, Medicare and the War on Poverty and the Civil Rights act had. It will create block that wil lockstep vote against the Romneys, Boehners and McConnells of America for decades.

    The Republican Party has greatly, in the selling of the president and large regional elections like Senate and Governor, relied on pealing off a percentage of voters from the great uncommitted middle of the road instead of finding an issue which resonates with the larger majority of its basic block.

  53. hippie13

    It's a little known fact that Hitlers"final solution" was actually just a misconceived healthcare plan.

  54. BlueStateLibel

    Here's my disaster analogy: the Republicans have made ACA their Titanic and are going to sink on it.

  55. Biel_ze_Bubba

    Obama just hijacked America's health care airliner, and crashed it into the largest bank accounts in the world, thereby injuring thousands of millionaires.

    At least, I think that's the analogy. As a bonus, it comes with a complete set of conspiracy theories.

  56. anniegetyerfun

    Sorry if this has been said, but there are, like, one million comments on this post: It's not just Arabs. In fact, we're killing many more South and Central Asians than Arabs at this point. Not that we can tell the diff!

Comments are closed.