BECAUSE 'FLORIDA'  4:43 pm June 5, 2012

Stand Your Ground Totally Not Adversely Affecting Black People

by Kris E. Benson

Sorry blahsGood news everyone! Well, good news and bad news — a mixed bag of news. First, we bring you the bad news: turns out, Florida’s Stand Your Ground law has allowed drug dealers, gang members, killers, animal abusers, and violent attackers to walk free. But now for the good news! Floridians are extra creative when it comes to this law, using it in cases that lawmakers never envisioned. Talk about thinking outside the box!

Via the Tampa Bay Times, which did a comprehensive analysis on Stand Your Ground:

The number of [Stand Your Ground] cases is increasing, largely because defense attorneys are using “stand your ground” in ways state legislators never envisioned. The defense has been invoked in dozens of cases with minor or no injuries. It has also been used by a self-described “vampire” in Pinellas County, a Miami man arrested with a single marijuana cigarette, a Fort Myers homeowner who shot a bear and a West Palm Beach jogger who beat a Jack Russell terrier.

To be fair, Jack Russell terriers can be pretty vicious. I mean, we’ve all seen The Mask, right? Oh and also, you’re never going to believe this, but outcomes depend on whether or not the victim is black or white:

Defendants claiming “stand your ground” are more likely to prevail if the victim is black. Seventy-three percent of those who killed a black person faced no penalty compared to 59 percent of those who killed a white.

According to Florida lawmakers, this is no biggie. No need to panic, let’s just all calm down and take a deep breath, think a little about what we’re trying to accomplish. So some violent criminals here and there walk free. Maybe a few people are shot, and maybe they’re black, but in the grand scheme of things, isn’t the law accomplishing so many other positive things that these things are just minuscule in comparison?

Rep. Dennis Baxley, an Ocala Republican who sponsored the law, said Monday that it is “premature” to suggest changes are needed. “I think there’s more data to come about the positive aspects of the statute as it exists,” Baxley said, noting that the law has helped people who were legitimately defending themselves. “It’s hard to do with a fairly small universe of cases to make a lot of judgments about what’s there….I think we just need to be cautious about jumping to a policy shift before we’re clear about what it is we’re trying to accomplish.”

Surely there are positive aspects to this racially disparate impact in the law’s application, especially since it can’t, of course, actually be racism — didn’t Dr Martin Luther King Jr fix racism everywhere, and for everyone? Of course he did! So, black people of Florida, rest assured that your chances of being shot and never seeing justice may or may not factor into whether or not the law is accomplishing its stated goals.

[Tampa Bay]

 

Hola wonkerados.

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{ 130 comments }

Barb June 5, 2012 at 4:47 pm

Zimmerman is raking in the donations after being sent back to jail. Ca-ching!

Mittens Howell, III June 5, 2012 at 5:04 pm

Koch Bros?

TribecaMike June 5, 2012 at 6:31 pm

If there's any justice in the world, he'll soon be hearing the Ka-Chang! of a prison door slamming.

starfanglednut June 5, 2012 at 7:25 pm

I know! It's fucking unbelievable.

Negropolis June 6, 2012 at 12:55 am

That the prosecutors caught him lying gives me just a little bit of hope, though.

sati_demise June 6, 2012 at 7:11 pm

Too bad no one can profit from their crime if convicted.

nounverb911 June 5, 2012 at 4:49 pm

But is it safe for Alan West to wear his hoodie again?

FlownOver June 5, 2012 at 4:53 pm

Under his pointed hood, fine.

mavenmaven June 5, 2012 at 4:49 pm

As long as the law makes it easier to kill people of color (and presumably liberals, democrats, etc) it will not be overturned. That's today's reality.

nounverb911 June 5, 2012 at 4:51 pm

Won't the sun tanned tourists object?

MittBorg June 5, 2012 at 5:05 pm

They can object all they want, not that it will matter after they're shot.

CivicHoliday June 5, 2012 at 8:02 pm

Unless those people of color are still in somebody's uterus, in which case, SAVE THEM AT ALL COSTS

Negropolis June 6, 2012 at 12:56 am

If that were the case, spending on pre-natal care would be through-the-roof.

actor212 June 5, 2012 at 4:51 pm

I really wish Florida, along with all the other cracker-gatherings, would just man up and pass "Shoot the Nigra" laws.

MittBorg June 5, 2012 at 5:07 pm

*That* kind of guts, they don't have.

mavenmaven June 5, 2012 at 5:08 pm

They don't need to, they got this one already.

MittBorg June 5, 2012 at 5:24 pm

Not much longer. The whole NATION is turning BROWN!

starfanglednut June 5, 2012 at 7:26 pm

Yay!

*Waves flag.

Lionel[redacted]Esq June 5, 2012 at 4:52 pm

Stand Your Ground: Brought to you by Koch Industries. Koch Industries, Screwing America So We Can Make More Money For Over Half a Century.

finallyhappy June 5, 2012 at 7:54 pm

so we are supposed to be all cheery at NMNH because Koch gave 35 mil for the new dinosaur hall.

HuddledMass June 6, 2012 at 11:09 am

Oh hush yer mouth – I have to walk past the "David H. Koch Institute for Integrative Cancer Research" every day. And spit. And hope he dies of prostate cancer, the asshole…

ShiftyParadigm June 5, 2012 at 4:52 pm

What color was the Jack Russell terrier?

Crank_Tango June 5, 2012 at 5:15 pm

all of 'em, katie?

mrpuma2u June 5, 2012 at 5:39 pm

I am not sure but I heard it had a skittles collar.

starfanglednut June 5, 2012 at 7:27 pm

I heard it wanted a motherfucking iced tea.

UW8316154 June 5, 2012 at 10:49 pm

And liked fried chicken.

el_donaldo June 5, 2012 at 4:52 pm

Basically there's a white guy guy pointing a gun at someone else, forever. Who that other is depends on what point in history and where we're talking about.

Puffperney June 6, 2012 at 4:13 pm

Very good point!

dopper0189 June 5, 2012 at 4:52 pm

If your black in Florida is suicide now legal, because your standing your ground against an armed person, who just happens to be you (and your black)?

MittBorg June 5, 2012 at 5:24 pm

You know, that's an interesting question.

Chet Kincaid June 5, 2012 at 6:27 pm

No! If you kill yourself, you'll be prosecuted to the full extent of the law!!

starfanglednut June 5, 2012 at 7:29 pm

All the way to the gates of helllllllllllllllllllll!

edgydrifter June 5, 2012 at 4:52 pm

They haven't killed all the blacks in Florida yet, so it's obviously too soon to reconsider this law.

fartknocker June 5, 2012 at 4:53 pm

I love animals but I have had a few times where I would have enjoyed drop kicking my crazy neighbor's spastic Jack Russell terrier. I'm just trying to figure out how beating a dog = Stand Your Ground. Must be a Florida thing.

Baconzgood June 5, 2012 at 4:59 pm

Ex-Mrs. Baconz's man friend has one of those. The little fucker needs K-9 quaaludes. Give me a lazy dog like a basset or bulldog any day.

MittBorg June 5, 2012 at 5:09 pm

Greyhounds can be real couch potatoes. Problem is, they have a strong prey drive, and you just can't allow them in a space where there's a lot of cats commenting all the time.

Crank_Tango June 5, 2012 at 5:16 pm

So don't let them on Jezebel?

MittBorg June 5, 2012 at 5:25 pm

It's a sly little dig at Baconzgood, who just changed his tagline. I'm just lovin' me some Baconzgood lately.

PubOption June 5, 2012 at 4:59 pm

"I thought I was in imminent danger of being bitten; and so, rather than retreat, I kicked/hit the dog"

MittBorg June 5, 2012 at 5:28 pm

Well, in all fairness, a sure way to get bitten by a bitey dog is attempting to flee. They can't help it, their prey drive takes over. But it's *less* dangerous, in my experience, to stand one's ground WITHOUT kicking/hitting the dog. A human's greater height is somewhat intimidating to an aggressive dog, and it's best not to get one's limbs within reach of any aggressive dog's impressively powerful teeth and jaws. A stick or stone makes a fine distance weapon, and most dogs usually back off when threatened. (Not Jack Russells. They're insane.)

PsycWench June 5, 2012 at 6:25 pm

My dad and stepmom have four Jack Russell terriers. Each dog has a Facebook page and all four pages are regularly maintained. I hope the DSM-5 will have a category of "Too Much Time on Your Hands Disorder". and yeah, dropkicking has some appeal, but the damn dog would post video of it.

Giveusabob June 5, 2012 at 4:53 pm

Ah, so Rep. Baxley feels more folks need to be killed/shot/defended against/whatevs for there to be a statistically significant sample size appropriate for passing judgement, eh? And I read a vampire has used this law successfully, too? Not perchance one and the same person, are they?

JerkCade June 5, 2012 at 4:53 pm

From whom do we need protection?

nounverb911 June 5, 2012 at 4:55 pm

All of them, Katie.

MittBorg June 5, 2012 at 5:10 pm

I know there's a lot of talk on the Wonketz about overused phrases, but I just want you to know that I think this was a perfect use of this particular phrase.

nounverb911 June 5, 2012 at 4:53 pm

The Paultards are going to have an absolute field day at the Tampa convention.

weejee June 5, 2012 at 4:57 pm

You thinking that the Mittenatti need to be thinking about brain buckets and Kevlar™ vests an more important health measures than SP14 slather and condoms?

MittBorg June 5, 2012 at 5:12 pm

You know the Paultards will be carrying. And chances are, it'll be concealed carry. The first Republican who tries to ignore them from the podium, BLAM! It's ON, suckers.

Crank_Tango June 5, 2012 at 5:17 pm

I wonder if firecrackers are legal there? Not that I want to see any set off in a crowded convention hall or anything…

MittBorg June 5, 2012 at 5:30 pm

Don't do it, Crank_Tango! You'll get run over when the hoverrounded masses panic and make for the exits!

Estproph June 5, 2012 at 5:15 pm

Why? There surely won't be any blah people there.

Crank_Tango June 5, 2012 at 5:18 pm

UNION THUG FALSE FLAG SAUL ALINSKY SOROS CHEMTRAILS SHEEPLE!

starfanglednut June 5, 2012 at 7:34 pm

BLUE HELMETS! AGENDA 21! BIKE SHARING!

Baconzgood June 5, 2012 at 4:53 pm

I think we just need to be cautious about jumping to a policy shift before we’re clear about what it is we’re trying to accomplish.

What does that mean? I'm not, what you would call uneducated, but that….Was the policy to sell more guns? Yes it was. Was the policy to kill browner people? Yes it was? Is it a shitty policy? Yes it is. So change it. What isn't clear about it? I think that we can ALL agree more guns more dead people doesn't make the world safer. Just sayin.

MittBorg June 5, 2012 at 5:30 pm

This. This is why I hug you so much.

George Skullfry June 5, 2012 at 5:57 pm

The way I read it is that he's not sure yet about what the intent of the law is, which would be a pretty amazing thing for a sane person to say.

emmelemm June 5, 2012 at 7:29 pm

"We advocated for it and passed it [because ALEC told us to], but we have no fucking idea why."

smashedinhat June 5, 2012 at 4:54 pm

To be fair, a Jack Russell terriers grasp of political discourse leaves me feeling weak and despondent.

Crank_Tango June 5, 2012 at 5:19 pm

it's the capslocks.

Mittens Howell, III June 5, 2012 at 4:54 pm

Has Florida unveiled their new Skittles Control legislation yet?

Lionel[redacted]Esq June 5, 2012 at 4:54 pm

So, was the Jack Russell black or white?

SoBeach June 5, 2012 at 4:55 pm

"I think we just need to be cautious about jumping to a policy shift before we’re clear about what it is we’re trying to accomplish…"

Instead of, say, rushing to pass a stupid yeehaw shoot-em-up law designed specifically to pander to the bubba vote.

No need to be cautious when it comes to jumping to that kind of "policy shift". Heavens no.

Lionel[redacted]Esq June 5, 2012 at 4:56 pm

It is hard to believe a law that was predicted by South Park would be problematic:
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/149674/its-

Baconzgood June 5, 2012 at 4:56 pm

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! Not Eddie!

Come here a minute June 5, 2012 at 4:58 pm

The Stand Your Ground is the very model of equality. Everybody is allowed to stand their ground, whether they are shooting blahs in the back on their suburban ground or lying six feet under it.

Chick-Fil-Atheist™ June 5, 2012 at 4:58 pm

Let's just leave killin' up to the state. And Texas will be the state.

steamynachos June 5, 2012 at 4:59 pm

Could "Stand Your Ground" be the new roundabout way for Florida to "disenfranchise" voters of color since their Voter ID scheme failed?

Schmannnity June 5, 2012 at 5:10 pm

The Florida Republican Party has a place for a forward thinker like you.

MittBorg June 5, 2012 at 5:14 pm

Now that you mention it …

TribecaMike June 5, 2012 at 4:59 pm

“I think there’s more data to come about the positive aspects…" And they've been saying that about Jesus for how many millenia now?

FlownOver June 5, 2012 at 5:00 pm

Has anyone considered the confluence of this law and the newly-energized Paultards coming to Tampa?

"Officer, he was attacking my deeply-held belief in the gold standard. I had no choice."

MittBorg June 5, 2012 at 5:14 pm

Every day now for weeks. Usually accompanied by much drinking and alternating between laughing hilariously and sobbing into my booze.

mrpuma2u June 5, 2012 at 5:42 pm

Hey if a Paultard takes out a Neocon, or vice versa, is that really a bad thing? Needz moar ekstreeemis gunz battelz!!!!

MittBorg June 5, 2012 at 6:22 pm

We'll still have to clean up behind them. We always do.

Butch_Wagstaff June 5, 2012 at 6:09 pm

"He called Ayn Rand a hack!"

MittBorg June 5, 2012 at 6:23 pm

Yeah, that would hurt.

starfanglednut June 5, 2012 at 7:36 pm

I killed him for liberteee!

Negropolis June 6, 2012 at 1:21 am

"He assaulted my person, officer! With words! I feared for my argument's life."

James Michael Curley June 5, 2012 at 5:01 pm

The more we learn about how Stand Your Ground Laws are being used the more we want to go all Stand Your Ground on those who created the Stand Your Ground Laws.

SayItWithWookies June 5, 2012 at 5:02 pm

So Dennis Baxley, the idiot who basically took the ALEC model legislation, then copied-and-replaced "Your State Here" with "Florida," probably without even reading the damn bill, doesn't think we should just go willy-nilly changing policy without careful examination? Sounds like someone needs to get one of those "Black Like Me" injections and get stranded in a gated community at night.

TheMeatmaker June 5, 2012 at 5:02 pm

Support your right to harm bears.

Giveusabob June 5, 2012 at 5:11 pm

I actually prefer bare arms. Nothing better than short-sleeve weather, y'all.

MittBorg June 5, 2012 at 5:32 pm

Nothing better than our gorgeous FLOTUS showing her CUT triceps.

Butch_Wagstaff June 5, 2012 at 6:11 pm

She could probably beat me at arm rasslin'. Then she would tell me to eat my veggies. And I would. Gladly.

MittBorg June 5, 2012 at 6:24 pm

(Drifts off in pleasant fantasy about arm-rasslin' FLOTUS) Wut? Oh, right. (Goes back to eating veggies, gladly)

starfanglednut June 5, 2012 at 7:36 pm

Mmmm hmmm.

elviouslyqueer June 5, 2012 at 5:04 pm

“I think there’s more data to come about the positive aspects of the statute as it exists,”

True. There is positively a disproportionate number of persons getting off scot-free after using "Stand Your Ground" as an excuse to kill black people.

Mittens Howell, III June 5, 2012 at 5:08 pm

It's all part of Florida's "Get the fuck outta here, this shit is gonna blow!! " summer tourist campaign.

Schmannnity June 5, 2012 at 5:08 pm

Jack Russell Terriers–Stand Your Pound.

actor212 June 5, 2012 at 5:12 pm

Stand Your Ground Beef

Ryy June 5, 2012 at 5:09 pm

Interesting that the righty blogs that were all over Zimmerman and Trayvon, redstate, patterico, etc… have completely ignored his recent lying/perjury/bond revocation….. almost like it never happened….

MittBorg June 5, 2012 at 5:38 pm

As they always do. They leap in screaming without discovering the details because they want to put a left-right political spin on something, then the details leak out, making them look like the idiots they've always been, and then … nothing. Silence. It never happened. Nope. We have ALWAYS been at war with Eastasia.

Butch_Wagstaff June 5, 2012 at 6:14 pm

And Dubya was never Prez.

MittBorg June 5, 2012 at 6:18 pm

He might just as well be invisible for all the attention they're giving him, these days.

starfanglednut June 5, 2012 at 7:38 pm

It's really simple. If you ignore things, then they are no longer true. Why is that so hard to understand?

chascates June 5, 2012 at 5:09 pm

I'm going to go to Florida dressed as a vampire, smoke a marijuana cigarette, and beat a bear with a Jack Russell terrier. To hell with Disneyworld!!!

Schmannnity June 5, 2012 at 5:44 pm

Don't forget to eat a face while you're at it.

MittBorg June 5, 2012 at 6:18 pm

Damn, you like to live a wild life, Chas.

chascates June 5, 2012 at 7:07 pm

Only in my dreams, my friend. I spent today loading, hauling, and then stacking 120 bales of hay. In addition to a break for picking blackeyed peas and green beans. My actual wild life consists of a weekly visit to town to buy groceries and use whatever Jack-in-the-Box coupon I have left.

MittBorg June 6, 2012 at 2:59 am

IF — and it's a big if — I ever find myself with enough money to buy a nice piece of farming land, I will write you and ask you if you'd like to have it. Because you seem to love the earth like few people I know.

DerrickWildcat June 5, 2012 at 5:10 pm

First of all: It's Wampyre.
And secondly: They are for real!

Jeri 2.0 June 5, 2012 at 5:12 pm

At the convention, if a Paultard walks up to you and sprays you with Krylon™ Mahogany Brown, run for your life. Otherwise it's just a bunch of white guys breaking each other's hips and running over each other with their Rascals, and no harm, no foul.

OneYieldRegular June 5, 2012 at 5:13 pm

If Harvey Milk and George Moscone had been killed in Florida, Dan White could have claimed that he was just "standing his ground" by forcing open a ground floor window and stalking the two politicians to their deaths. He'd probably be Florida Governor by now.

Estproph June 5, 2012 at 5:17 pm

It's not often you see a bear or a Jack Russell terrier wearing a hoodie.

owhatever June 5, 2012 at 5:19 pm

I'm standing my ground, you vampire mutha.
No, I'm standing my ground, you smartass dog.
Bang. Bang. Everybody wins.

Troglodeity June 5, 2012 at 5:34 pm

And even worse, Mr. Black Bear was unarmed! http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/cas

emmelemm June 5, 2012 at 7:34 pm

Wow… that's an interesting site (or feature of a site, I guess) on Stand Your Ground.

coolhandnuke June 5, 2012 at 5:39 pm

… Seventy-three percent of those who killed a black person faced no penalty compared to 59 percent of those who killed a white…

Those scores are still a little too close for the GOP/Racists to rest easy. It's a bit like a third quarter score Miami Heat 73 Boston Celtics 59 and the home fans want a rout but there is a slight chance of an upset. But with the GOP Circus of Fear and Hate coming to Tampa, I'm confident (and sickened) that with a few darkies dying the home team will increase the score.

fuflans June 5, 2012 at 5:47 pm

It’s hard to do with a fairly small universe of cases to make a lot of judgments about what’s there….I think we just need to be cautious about jumping to a policy shift before we’re clear about what it is we’re trying to accomplish.

yeah and i bet you were all so cautious and clear and had a statistically valid universe of test cases before you INSTITUTED the law right?

Callyson June 5, 2012 at 5:54 pm

“I think there’s more data to come about the positive aspects of the statute as it exists,” Baxley said

Ignore that man behind the curtain–I think there really is a wizard just around the corner…

Prick.

Jukesgrrl June 5, 2012 at 6:03 pm

I was attacked by a Jack Russell terrier once, totally unprovoked. I think it was trained by Blackwater. Not only did he injure me, he ripped the pocket off my favorite black leather jacket, to me an even worse crime than my gashes and bruises. If I thought Jack Russells were roaming loose in Tucson, I'd be one of the millions of Arizonans packing heat and invoking SYG.

M. Szyslak June 6, 2012 at 1:32 am

That was a "Law biting citizen". Actually, Picture Rocks is over-run with dumb ass loud barking Rottweilers.

Jukesgrrl June 6, 2012 at 5:40 pm

Thanks for the tip.I'll stay out of Picture Rocks.

TribecaMike June 5, 2012 at 6:16 pm

I just felt a Charlie Horse coming on, so I blew my leg off with a triple-aught. Call me crazy, but dammit I stood my ground.

Chet Kincaid June 5, 2012 at 6:25 pm
Chet Kincaid June 5, 2012 at 6:22 pm

The article breaks out stats on conviction/acquittal based on the race of the victim (shoot-ee), but not on the race of the defendant (shooter). Seems like a pretty obvious oversight.

BaldarTFlagass June 5, 2012 at 6:24 pm

"Seventy-three percent of those who killed a black person faced no penalty compared to 59 percent of those who killed a white."

What's the percentage of black people who faced no penalty after they Stood Their Ground and killed a white person? Just curious.

Generation[redacted] June 5, 2012 at 8:19 pm

Without knowing any of the facts, I'd say zero.

comrad_darkness June 6, 2012 at 12:05 pm

Didn't work for this black woman, and of all the cases mentioned this one seems a slam dunk application of the law. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57434757-5

ttommyunger June 5, 2012 at 7:00 pm

Guns don't kill people, lawfully empowered morons and homicidal sociopaths kill people.

starfanglednut June 5, 2012 at 7:42 pm

I think we just need to be cautious about jumping to shift a policy of killing black people before we’re clear about how many black people we've killed..

zombiehunter101 June 5, 2012 at 8:07 pm

I think we just need to be cautious about jumping to shift a policy of killing black people before we’re clear about how many black people…there are left to kill..WTF.

DahBoner June 6, 2012 at 6:16 am

If they wanted this law to protect Black people, they would have called it the They Call That Dancing??? law…

comrad_darkness June 6, 2012 at 12:03 pm

At the end of the day you've got to ask yourself . . . why are you visiting fucking Florida?

sati_demise June 6, 2012 at 3:34 pm

SYG totally not adversely affecting Vietnam veteran heros either:

http://www.famm.org/newsandinformation/PressRelea

Susan1946 June 6, 2012 at 3:58 pm

I think the 'stand your ground' legislation will have to be looked at some time in the future. But also, if more folk of color are negatively impacted by it than white folk, that suggests the judicial system needs to be examined, too. I'm not sure it is possible to write a law that it is invulnerable to misuse in the courts.

The other thing this whole incident brought my attention to – screening for neighborhood watch participants. Might we need a bit more attention there, too?

Susan

sati_demise June 6, 2012 at 7:19 pm

Think Zimmie would have made a good cop? 'cause that was his career path. so many like him, too!

Puffperney June 6, 2012 at 4:19 pm

Thinking out of the box a bit… Couldn't "stand your ground" also be used creatively to re-institute dueling? Now that would be interesting. Not as interesting as a straight-up authorization of dueling, but, it could work. Like: "Hey, I'm going to be on foot heading north from 36th and Main at 1:00 this afternoon and I'll be packing."

starfanglednut June 5, 2012 at 7:32 pm

Hoverround tracks all across your back
I can see you had your fun

Baconzgood June 6, 2012 at 9:15 am

I change my tagline randomly. And don't think that the recent lovin' has gone unappreciated.

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