Well, we tried.
By the time he turned 5, Michael had developed an uncanny ability to switch from full-blown anger to moments of pure rationality or calculated charm — a facility that Anne describes as deeply unsettling. “You never know when you’re going to see a proper emotion,” she said. She recalled one argument, over a homework assignment, when Michael shrieked and wept as she tried to reason with him. “I said: ‘Michael, remember the brainstorming we did yesterday? All you have to do is take your thoughts from that and turn them into sentences, and you’re done!’ He’s still screaming bloody murder, so I say, ‘Michael, I thought we brainstormed so we could avoid all this drama today.’ He stopped dead, in the middle of the screaming, turned to me and said in this flat, adult voice, ‘Well, you didn’t think that through very clearly then, did you?’ ”.
In some children, [Callous Unemotionalism] traits manifest in obvious ways. Paul Frick, a psychologist at the University of New Orleans who has studied risk factors for psychopathy in children for two decades, described one boy who used a knife to cut off the tail of the family cat bit by bit, over a period of weeks. The boy was proud of the serial amputations, which his parents initially failed to notice. “When we talked about it, he was very straightforward,” Frick recalls. “He said: ‘I want to be a scientist, and I was experimenting. I wanted to see how the cat would react.’ ”
In another famous case, a 9-year-old boy named Jeffrey Bailey pushed a toddler into the deep end of a motel swimming pool in Florida. As the boy struggled and sank to the bottom, Bailey pulled up a chair to watch. Questioned by the police afterward, Bailey explained that he was curious to see someone drown. When he was taken into custody, he seemed untroubled by the prospect of jail but was pleased to be the center of attention.
In many children, though, the signs are subtler. Callous-unemotional children tend to be highly manipulative, Frick notes. They also lie frequently — not just to avoid punishment, as all children will, but for any reason, or none. “Most kids, if you catch them stealing a cookie from the jar before dinner, they’ll look guilty,” Frick says. “They want the cookie, but they also feel bad. Even kids with severe A.D.H.D.: they may have poor impulse control, but they still feel bad when they realize that their mom is mad at them.” Callous-unemotional children are unrepentant. “They don’t care if someone is mad at them,” Frick says. “They don’t care if they hurt someone’s feelings.” Like adult psychopaths, they can seem to lack humanity. “If they can get what they want without being cruel, that’s often easier,” Frick observes. “But at the end of the day, they’ll do whatever works best.”
Happy Mother’s Day, from The New York Times Magazine, and Your Wonkette!
{ 485 comments }
Time for another vasectomy, just to make sure.
I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
(Happy Mother's Day, Ripley!)
We'll issue you a special handicapped plate– just a pic of a penis in a circle w/ a line through it.
There's a vas deferens between Pregnant and Not Pregnant, after all.
I must show deferens to your vas store of medical knowledge.
Sac re' Blue!
No sense getting testy
WIN11!11!
Thanks!
It's true.
That reminds me of the apocryphal story about G.B. Shaw (I think) who, when asked the difference between men and women, replied, "Madam, I cannot conceive."
It was so much fun to be raised by one of these, too. Or rather, to be raised around one of these, since he didn't do much in the actual caregiving arena.
My sympathies, Gemini. You must be a very strong and resilient person.
Well, thank you for your comment, RR. I'd like to think so, but there is too much lingering crazy. Not unlike most humans, it would appear. (At least I haven't become Mittlike, or TeaBaggerish.)
You know, the smallest group in the world is 'Adult Children of Normal Parents'. We all struggle with the lingering crazy.
But you demonstrate empathy, reason, a grasp of ethics, and humor. Keep pulling the crazy out by the roots and tossing it away, and it grows back weaker and more sparsely until it pretty much disappears altogether.
And Wonkette-style snark – that's industrial strength Crazy-B-Gone.
Yes, Wonkettevillle has helped: A place where crazy is not only tolerated, but encouraged. I feel more understood here than in most of the rest of my life. Oh, no, now I'ma gonna cry. I think I'll go and pull out some hair by the roots. Whoops, you said pull the crazy, din't you?
Be grateful. A "hands-on" raising by a psychopath is not something to brag about.
Yeah, as crazy and evil as he was, he never did send a machete my way.
Ah, yes. Mummy's collection of Sharp, Stabby Things.
I had forgotten today was ReproductiveFemales' Day. Oh, well, she can't celebrate, since she's dead as a doornail.
Hope your charming Pops is in his warm and final resting-place too.
Yes, spread out over El Golfo de Mexico lo these 10 years.
Add alcohol and Marine training and you have Dad. I am sorry this happened to you.
And I'm sorry it happened to you. With the bonuses of booze and military. Yikes. My Dad was scarey enough being a ragaholic and, shall we say, sexually inappropriate. Somehow we've survived, you and I. Since I didn't have children at least I didn't pass on the family crap.
Glad you made it through also, I have kids and made sure that my kids never endured anything close to my childhood. Which when I think about it was really kind of an easy thing to do. .
I'm glad it worked out for you. And your kids. You had a perfect role model — on how not to be.
(Hugs Beowoof) I'm sorry you had a ragey, shouty, drinky beast for a dad.
Thanks a hug every now and again is a good thing. And the ragey, shouty, drinky thing left me with a genuine empathy for the suffering of others, which led me to be a liberal. That and my Mom, turned 5 out of 6 of us in card carrying Democrats.
And oddly enough, This American Life did a show on psychopathy today too. Mom, I was thinking about you before either of those, just so you know.
Happy mother's day to all the mothers out there!
So, which one of these little boys grew up to be Mitt Romney?
The other one grew up to be Jamie Dimon. Hard to tell which one turned out to be more destructive.
Destructive, yes, but others are taking the fall.
All of them, Katie.
I'll bet that one of them went to Yale and was a member of Skull and Bones.
That was very kind that since the Family Research Council President Tony Perkins was on "Face the Nation" you decided to run a picture of his mother. She will be so proud.
Chris Matthews and Barney Frank just ate Tony Perkins UP in an interview/debate.
If you haven't seen it, go over to Media Matters for America and check it out.
There are layers and LAYERS of teh snark in this one.
I had no idea that Dick Cheney had donated to so many sperm banks.
All those hearts that have been installed into him are not for pumping blood. They are there to be eventually consumed to keep his zombie-brain alive.
What a lovely thought. Urp.
I have a heart of gold but a mind of dark imaginings. You're welcome.
You sure do, sweetie! Or as I used to remind Mum, when I urged her to be grateful for my dark thoughts, "All talk, no boom-boom."
She didn't care for that much, either.
Well, his daughter's a lesbian, so he has to perpetuate his evil DNA himself.
Cheney's daughter Elizabeth is the one always trying to get Daddy's attention with such schemes as having CPAC give him a parade and probably nominating him for a Nobel Prize. She has FIVE CHILDREN. The other sister, known as The Lesbian, has graced the world with two children and since she was the partner carrying the child, one might assume the Cheney genes are perpetuating there, too. We'll NEVER be rid of them. It's like the Seed of Chucky.
When they become adults, we call the smarter ones CEO.
Unfortunately, it's true. I have worked for socipathic multi-millionaires and they got their money because they don't give a fuk how they get it. They'll lie, cheat, steal, ruin peoples' lives – whatever it takes – they don't care. Sociopaths are like that – just think how George W. Bush and ALL Republicons act.
I, too, have worked for these sociopaths. They truly think they are rich because it is their RIGHT! Even if the money came from their parents, they feel entitled. Have you ever noticed that whenever Pubbies attack the progressives, they use the same words we could more accurately use to describe them? Hmm?
I read somewhere that some companies are actually testing and screening for it as a desireable trait.mIf that isn't scary, I don't know what is.
Go to Monbiot.com and search it. I read the story a couple months ago there.
Even if they don't know their doing it, the corporate system is designed to reward sociopathy.
It's called "projection" when one accuse others of what they are guilty of doing. Republicons do it in IMAX.
My partner, many years ago, used to work in banking. He decided to quit when he realized the people he was working for were cut-throat crazy.
But then he started to work for the local Catholic diocese and realized they were just as crazy.
So then he went to work in the construction/remodeling business. A lot less crazy there.
Now he works with dead people. He's says it's one of the best jobs he's had because the corpses aren't crazy and don't rise up from their coffins to lecture you about their politics.
Poor man!
And his customers are the most satisfied of any he's ever worked with, you say?
He's not worked there very long but already has a dozen (or more) funny stories to tell (if you a have morbid sense of humor). He found a prosthetic leg in one of the rooms (from someone who recently died).
My partner: Why is this prosthetic leg here?
Sam (another guy who works there): Well, he doesn't really need it now, does he?
They also have entire rooms filled with urns of ashes unclaimed by families. Really strange. He's also found an old "English-style" coffin in the basement. It was probably used to ship over a body from England to be buried in a Richmond cemetery sometime in the 1920s.
Or Ted Bundy.
The Heartland institute must use this psych profile in their HR recruiting materials.
Gah. See comment above.
Typical liberal mainstream media, always looking at the worst side of things. What the mothers really want to talk about is jobs and the economy, and how soon we can get rid of job-killers like Obamacre and all those regulations.
My mother passed in January 1994. On Christmas Day the December before, I helped her into her wheelchair so she could go from the rehab unit up to her assisted-living apartment to get a cigarette. It was awe-inspiring to see her lie to her doctors; I guess that's why she only made it to 86. Between you and I, having an English teacher for a mother is pretty wonderful.
And one more thing: the editor who wrote that headline ("Can you call a 9-year-old a Psychopath?") must not have any children,.
Is this snark or are you serious? Let me know, so I can come back and kick your @ss if you really mean it.
I’ve been putting this in every comment for several days now; it’s an apparently unsuccessful ironic commentary on how all the Republican teevee talkers just keep saying the same thing no matter what the question is.
They're very good at staying on script; such good little Germans are they. Thinking for one's self is verboten.
Well, we've seen the results when they try to wing it. It never ends well. Unless making us laugh through our numb horror counts as 'ending well'.
I got it. Your irony is in full working order, in my expert opinion.
I shouldn't say this, but HEY! I'm going to be a bitch today.
Why do people who don't have children say horrible things about children?
The minute I saw Christine, with those big blueberry eyes and skin as pink as gum and breath that smelled like cookies, I was madly in love forever.
I know this is a place for snark and all, I just get sick of people who don't have kids bitching about kids.
A lot of responders seem to have lost their senses of humor today.
I apologize for being harsh. I know you must be thinking fondly of your mother today.
My mom had a little bell she would ring and I would have to come in and sing for her guests. I hated that shit! I would give anything right now if she were alive and I could hear that bell.
Today, I would sing to them:
Oh my god, Becky, look at her butt
It is so big
She looks like one of those rap guys girlfriends
Who understands those rap guys
They only talk to her because she looks like a total prostitute, ok?
—————————————–
And they would learn their lesson never to ask me to sing for them again.
Bah ha ha!
That’s the spirit!
I love kids, but I must confess I enjoy handing them back to their parents when they are poopy/screaming/grow up to be republicans.
And what did I say about children? And how do you know I don't have a giant litter of them? Sheesh.
I have two of them, both boys, who I love dearly, but for Father's Day I want them to leave me the hell alone.
Funny, that's what my Dad would say when we asked him what he wanted for Father's Day: ("Peace and Privacy. It's not too much to ask. Except, God forbid, in this house. To which I have been sentenced as a result of the sins I committed in my past life. I was Genghis Khan, you see. But what would you know, you're a child. Quit staring, shut the door and go read a book. It's impossible to have a decent conversation in this house." And he wondered why we thought he was nuts.)
I like the sound of that but I don't think my kids would understand what the hell I was saying.
I don't know whether you ever watched that show "Everybody Hates Chris", but it's based on Chris Rock's childhood. In one episode, Chris is shopping for a Father's Day present. He asks his Dad, an aggravated blue-collar guy sitting at the kitchen table paying bills, what he wants. His Dad says, "you want to know what I want for Father's Day? I want you to pay the electric bill". So he does.
Chris Rock did a Father's Day greeting card. He got sick of all the "hyuck hyuck Dad's so stupid" variety that tends to fill the Hallmark shelves. His was captioned:
“Nobody ever says, ‘Hey, Daddy, thanks for knocking out the rent. I sure love this hot water. It’s easy to read with all this light.’”
My father had to put up with my mother and me, both of whom were undiagnosed and unmedicated full-on bipolars, so I feel bad that I could never afford to get him a Father's Day gift that said "Thank you for not running away forever in the middle of the night, much less going the murder-suicide route."
It was especially bad because I swear the mental illnesses of my mother and I would sync up, like women menstrauting or something.
Dads have it pretty rough, I think. We used to wake ours up by pulling his chest and leg hairs out individually. The man was a fucking saint, he hardly ever said anything beyond "What have I done to deserve THIS?" with the patented Sad Brown-Eyed Look that always made ya feel like a jerk.
My daughters are 29 and 31, and both are happily married and call and visit the parental units regularly. But to be completely honest, I can't be with either one without reflecting on the 5-6 years when my wife and I would rather have been dead than endure one more day of the crazy. From the quoted article: “As horrible as this is to say, as a mom, the truth is that you put up a wall. It’s like being in the army, facing a barrage of fire every day. You have to steel yourself against the outbursts and the hate.”
Yes, people without children don't get to say bad things about them. They haven't earned the scar tissue.
How about adoptive parents? Do they get to kvetch?
Step-parents?
I guess so, since our kids are adopted and of a different race. One of the frustrations of the times was that the shrinky-dinky types all assumed that was the reason for the behavior – the closed head injury on one at 13 and the street-psycho rape at 15 of the other had nothing to do with it. The fact that each changed completely and immediately upon these events was irrelevant.as far as they were concerned – they already had a tidy diagnostic package.
What in the hell are you drinking, because I want some.
A Hendricks gin Martini, but had to wait til now to have it. A person needs standards.
Yours are pretty high if you drink Hendricks…
She also couldn't have been much good as an English teacher.
You still say "between you and I". That's a prepositional phrase, and it takes the objective case, "me".
Just between you and me, "between you and I" is one of those pretentious grammar fails, like "please give syphilis to my dog and I." If it isn't "give syphilis to I", then it isn't "give syphilis to my dog and I."
"Between you and I" sounds both half-educated and pretentious! Good job!
Well, I explained the first irony, but I’ll bet you can figure this one out yourself.And leave my mother alone!
You is a grammer, speling and RAndom cAoiTalization NAZI11!1!1!
Grammar Godwin!
Snark. Ur doin it rong.
The dangerous thing about pointing out mistakes in someone's grammar (besides the failure to pick up intention errors done for irony's sake) is that, in the act of doing so, you are bound to commit one yourself. I'm sure I'll make one here, as I'm not gonna scour over this comment with a virtual red pen. But here goes:
If you are a stateside Wonkadero (and I assume you are, based on themessage on your profile), you should be putting your periods inside your quotation marks. Periods outside quotation marks are for Limey Lizzie and the like.
See how much fun that is?!
I think way back when I was a noob here, someone (flamingpdog?) got all up in my face about my "funny spelling," and I never understood the remark till much later.
Apparently, it's one of those English/American thingies: I spell words like "colour" and "neighbour" correctly.
But I have given in to the pressure of multiple repeated beatings, and now put the full-stops (periods for you dolts) inside the quotation marks. So there.
Aha! I bet you're Noah fan of Webster.
You bit it on themessage.
How McLuhan of me.
If your English teacher mom were here to see you write "between you and I" she would have washed your mouth out with soap.
Ha ha! It'd be "ironic"!
I don't think that's psychopathy, just addiction. when I was smoking, I woulda said anything, to anyone, to get a smoke.
Me too. Didn't notice until later that the oxygen bottle was still lashed to her wheelchair. Could've been an interesting Xmas in God's Waiting Room.
17 virgins, here we come!
I got it (what's not to get?) ps: you're a good son.
Some commenters didn’t seem to understand that “between you and I” was a deliberate grammatical error of the type that would make a dead English teacher turn over in her grave.Thanks for the PS.
you are very funny and new thoughts.
please stay.
Seconded.
Thank you. I just can't quit.
I've got one of those. Yeah me!
Happy Mother's Day, anyway, Maman!
My girls keep a running tally on all the horrible things we have done to them, (and will have to discuss with a therapist someday).
I know, every day, (in one way or another), is Mother's Day.
my oldest has turned that tally in. It is joyous.
A psychopath for a Mama? My condolences.
I'm sick of stories about Mitt Rmoney's childhood, can't we move on?
Oh, those wacky Romney boys….
Make it "whackable," and I'm in.
Later on this little boy grew up to be Bill Frist.
Happy Mother's Day, bitches!
My good child hooked me up and the other didn't, lol. Gosh, I hope I am wrong about this and something is going to happen later.
Hooked you up with who? Does Jeffer know???
Hooked me up with the FTD Man. I'm allergic to flowers, lol. Christie thinks I am making that up so that she doesn't have to send me flowers and she does it anyway.
All I wanted was a nice card.
HA, I bet she actually did it because she secretly hates you for naming her after a future obese Rethugliklan governor of New Jersey whom you undoubtedly had absolutely no clue even existed when she popped outta the chute. Kids are like that, you know?
Okay, MY kids are like that, you know.
Yes, Christine HATES her name. She hates common names and wanted a super cool tribal name that no one could pronounce.
Christine was named after the family poodle, Chrissy. I didn't name her, Mike did. Christine came up with the name Mina for her unborn daughter. I don't have the heart to tell her that Victoria had a cat named Mina. (Meeh-nah)
ALL kids are like that. It took me nigh on fifty years to accept that EVERY SINGLE THING my parents did wasn't aimed at making me, personally, miserable.
One year, we gave my mother a black bead necklace with a little card in it that said "Something to match your eyes." She couldn't decide whether to be pissed or amused.
Well, if you were referring to her pupils, rather than her irises, it would be strictly accurate.
I got coffee, bacon, eggs, and toast with jelly. When the boy asked me last night to sleep in "till ten or eleven" today I offered to set the alarm clock for him. He was up and cooking by 8:30.
That is the most awesome thing, evah!
My mom always liked Jackie Kennedy and really wanted one of those fake leopard swing coats like Jackie had. I got her one and she wore it to bingo that night and never took it off while she played. I wonder if Nancy has it and if she would let me have it back?
You're raising a good boy.
He sounds like a sweet child. Poor kid, he has other troubles of his own. Very impressive that he could put something like that together at his youthful stage of life. I don't think I figured out how to fix breakfast until I was nearly 30. (My mother couldn't decide if it was cool or faggy for her kids to be in the kitchen.)
Happy Mother's Day, bitches!
Does that make the rest of us "sons of bitches"?
The nicest story you could find, Wonkette? I'm sure you could have linked to something heartstringy, cloying and Bible-based from the CBN web site. And watched as your readers ripped apart the internet in a blind and shocking rage.
Mother Heffer! The war on women just turned more horrific.
I had a life-size poster of Patty McCormack on the ceiling over my bed as a child.
Oh, my. What a bad little rodent YOU were.
Happy Mother's Day, Wonketteers. I'm sending all you moms a $20 flower bouquet that, after handling and delivery fees, cost around $80, for freedom.
Dude, I first read that as fondling and delivery fees. For $80 I'd do that.
I'd gladly pay $80 for the opportunity to fondle a nicely-built delivery person of either gender.
Or one of each, perhaps?
Probably. I have no shame.
Screw flowers. I'm making dinner tonight.
For MOM? That's sweet.
Of course, I says that as could happily have made MY mom one with an extra helping of cyanide, but luckily, she's already dead.
I'll take that in Percocet, please.
Oh wait, I'm not a mom. Do birds count?
Do dust bunnies count?
Why yes, I believe they do.
Good. I'm going to make those fuzzy bastards take me out to Mother's Day dinner, then.
Up to ten, some scientists say.
Alex the parrot could add.
Little Alex was a horrorshow Droog, all rightyrightyright!
Science News carries a pretty interesting mix of articles, a sort of snapshot on stuff happening across various fields, and for the longest time I was getting my "clever birdie" fix there. But then, I put 233 books on this year's reading list and ever since …
Why, bless you, Roscoe. If I were a mom, I'd be proud to call you son.
Love,
proudgrampa
You are SO sweet. (Hugs proudgrampa)
If my mother "brainstormed" with me as a way of getting what she wanted, I'd be a psychopath, too.
Mother? Eh, I've been called worse…
What, did you leave the room before they said the other half of the word?
Who says that TV doesn't make an impression on children?
Thanks for reminding me why I avoided watching Sesame Street with my kidz when they were of that age. I've long blamed Adam Sandler's popularity on they and their peers growing up with Cookie Monster.
I wasn't a kid anymore by the time Sesame Street hit TV, but I did end up watching it when kidsitting for friends (I happen to REALLY LIKE their kid, and she liked watching the program, so that made it OK). I thoroughly enjoyed it.
I watched Adam Sandler too — once, for about five minutes. I fail to see the connection. Pls 2 Xplane.
http://www.x-plane.com/desktop/landing/
WOOOO! Thanks, that was FUN!
I just found both Cookie Monster and Adam Sandler to be very extremely annoying, and their "humor" based on being annoying. Adam Sandler's fight with Bob Barker is the one scene from an Adam Sandler movie that I did thoroughly enjoy, and I don't particularly care for Bob Barker, either.
Ah. OK. Thank you. I can be very literal-minded sometimes.
A Muppet hater? Are you Tex Richman?
leftist!
Looking at that picture, I'd say the woman who got busted for taking her little kid into the tanning booth stayed a little too long this time around.
Looking at the picture, I'd say HAWT!
That's her Mom.
God, I'm so glad to be infertile. Thank you Jebus! At least I won't be enjoying any of that kind of fresh hell in my old age.
Slide over on the childfree bench.
On the one hand, I *will* be spending my golden years giving dollar blowjobs under a bridge because I forgot to have kids who I can go live with when I have no teeth (also a plus for the blowjobs).
On the other hand, I will *not* have the embarrassment of having raised a serial killer.
Also, firm breasts.
A place to live when we're old seems to be the most compelling reason to have kids these days.
Considering that it costs about half a million dollars to raise each one in this country, unless you REALLY REALLY want 'em, no one should have 'em. There's already too many humans to suit our overlords as it is. They'll start turning us into food at this rate.
Or, unless you are REALLY, REALLY sure that that half a million dollar child is going to pay off for you in the way of a place for you to live in the style to which you are accustomed when you are old, and that said child will have somehow made enough moolah in the wasteland that will be Amurika to buy a house and to fund his or her own vip healthcare in what will be the age of zero "entitlements". Because OTHERWISE, said $500k child will be looking to YOU for all that stuff. And frankly, with all the terrible kid stories being bandied about on this forum, those are chances I am just not willing to take. You can live with me in a shotgun shack in the middle of a field in 10 to 20 years, although it's already getting pretty crowded.
Another one here, although I've done an awful lot of child-minding and -raising for someone who never wanted to reproduce.
It's not JUST the firm breasts (which are nice, but we'll fap to that later). There's all kinds of sound scientific reasons not to actually be the carrying parent (including the linkage between reproduction in females and auto-immune disease). Being the sperm donor is not as much of a biggie, thank goodness. But yeah, big bonus points for not having raised a serial killer or other functional psychopath.
I'm REALLY glad I don't have to explain to a teenaged Tesslet why college is going to leave her with a lifetime of debt she'll never get out from under, and probably won't get her even an entry-level job, but she has to go anyway.
FIrm breasts, huh? Do you have a boobsletter I can subscribe to?
Happy Mother's Day to all moms:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9B7rxtxZs4
Stretch out your legs, let me make you bawl
Drive you insane, drive you up the wall
Starin' at your dome-piece, very strong
Stronger than cries, stronger than Teflon
Take you on the ave and you buy me links
Now I wanna pound the poontang until it stinks
You could be my mama and I'll be your boy…
I wonder if they're lefties?
http://www.cracked.com/article_19808_5-reasons-be…
What did Bristol do now?
Me, I've always had a thing for Rhoda Penmark.
I'd always thought that Patty McCormack had kind of fallen off the edge of the world after being in "The Bad Seed", but lo and behold, there she was in 2008 playing (who'd a thunk it?) Pat Nixon in "Frost/Nixon".
Hmmm, a most appropriate age progression, don't you think, old flamingpdog?
I think her indelible performance as the pig-tailed psychopath limited her choice of future roles. Too bad, because she was a great actress.
I wonder if these kids were adequately diagnosed. (Seriously). Very bright children in need of attention sometimes do horrific things, and only later in life understand the significance of what they did. Very bright bipolar kids often throw horrible fits and then turn on a dime and become quite rational. The first case is called "immaturity." The second can be treated with medication. I have a feeling that psychopathy is the flavor of the week in diagnostics.
There is a tendency to have a psychiatric diagnosis that's all the rage, isn't there? A few decades ago, it was all about MPD, this decade, it's all psychopathy. It's not clear to me that there is an actual clinical diagnosis of psychopathy, but I have known people in my life who seemed to be missing the empathy part of their makeup. I am in favour of having all such people put to death painlessly and immediately before they remove an additional portion of some animal/human as their experiment of the week.
Indeed. I say let the human/animal experimental subjects vote on their researcher's euthanasia after the experiment is over. There must be a way (e.g., signing: "Sorry doctor, you see that Koko has given the THUMBS DOWN signal. Now please just be professional and take this pill.")
What a wonderful idea!
For Mother's Day, I always watch Aliens.
"When Mommies Go to War" should be that movie's subtitle.
Sounds like your mother was rather like mine.
Clearly, this is all Obama's fault.
NATO airstrikes killed Afghan civilians in two provinces, local officials reported Monday, and the U.S.-led coalition said it plans an apology in one of the incidents.
USA! USA! USA!
~
THIS IS VERY RELEVANT TO THE TOPIC.
MAYBE THE PEOPLE WE'RE KILLING IN AFGHANISTAN ARE MOTHERS, OR HAD SAME?
or…HOW ABOUT USA = NATION OF PSYCHOPATHS
~
OMG I better find an unrelated blog post to comment about it on because that will stop the deaths!
There is no denying that some very evil and psychopathic people have taken into their hands the dangerous capabilities that this country possesses.
I blame Obama for that argument.
Wonkette Rules for Editing Radicals: no stories involving the mutilation of cats.
Motion seconded, there is enough sick shit in this world without bringing pets into it.
Aye. No Dog Abuse, either. I'm not able to tolerate any of that.
So no more Romney posts?
Man, I hope not. All that Dog Abuse talk really set me on edge.
I've held my tongue this far, since I tend to strongly favour free speech even when it makes me unhappy or uncomfortable, but I will squeak up on this issue, since others have spoken first: I would like to add my vote to, if possible, and agreeable to others, omit any stories regarding cruelty to animals, if at all possible. Only because it causes me great personal suffering. Thank you.
thirded and fourthed.
[now I'm thinking of Daffy Duck]
Daffy thanks you. All the other little ducks also thank you.
RABBIT SEASON!!!
It would help to take the pig off the home page :(
So, no more stories about Dick Cheney?
Just no stories about his latest mutation/murder of animals. Humans is fine (in the sense that we NEED to know what humans he is killing/contemplating killing).
You are a"Good Son" Norman.Now play with your cock&Balls for Momma.
"Are you really gonna swallow this cock and bull story?"
-Lenny Briscoe, to Abbey Carmichael
Happy Mothers Day!
Forget about the Brotherly and Otherly love.
Motherly Love is the thing for you.
Thank you, Dok. Sometimes I feel like a mother, and then sometimes I feel like THE Mothers.
Just by reading Wonkette, I've listened to more Zappa in the past week than I have in my entire life.
I hope you think that's a good thing.
Well … it IS.
Glad you think so, because it's not going to stop.
Guys, if your kid is a fucking psychopath, just get rid of the kid. Yes it's heartbreaking but the fact is that you gave birth to a cold calculating little shit and now it is your solemn duty to rid the earth of the insect that you mistakenly brought into this world. No amount of positive parenting can rehabilitate a sense of empathy that never existed in the first place. Set your guilt aside and do what is right. And remember: people aren't going to ask a lot of questions if a notoriously disobedient kid accidentally drowns himself or runs away from home.
A concept ripped directly from the tender pages of the Old Testament.
I always found wearing this around the house kept the boys in line when they were growing up.
But your kids were GOOD, or at least NORMAL. I've been around little psychopaths, as well as grown ones. They have absolutely NO qualms about inflicting pain and suffering on others. If you get your hands on a copy, read Lionel Shriver's "We Need To Talk About Kevin." It's about what it's like parenting a psychopath.
I honestly believe that psychopaths (people lacking any empathy) should be put to death. They lack a significant and necessary component of humanity.
Have you read Doris Lessing's "The Fifth Child"? Even more depressing than Shriver's take on the subject.
Wouldn't do much good here in Georgia, kids don't learn to read until the last two years of High School, and then just barely.
Well God said to Abraham "Kill me a son."
Abe said "Man, you must be puttin' me on!"
God said "No."
Abe said "What!"
God said "You can do what you like but
next time you see me comin' you better Run!"
Abe said "Where you want this killin' done?"
God said "Out on Highway 61."
(Hugs the CREature some more)
Man, I hope I got the lyrics right now! Was too distracted to look 'em up…
Let me tell second mother this has been done
But the second mother was with the seventh son
And they were both out on Highway 61.
And this is why the concept of "psychopathy" is dangerous bullshit. It's saying: "here is a minority who will fuck up the world if we don't kill them now". It's teaching us that there are Bad People who can be blamed for everything. Where have I heard that before, said Mike Godwin.
To clarify my position: the only 'minority' that I am addressing is the 'minority' of children who throw other children in the deep end to watch them die for entertainment. Time to call a spade, a spade.
Hmmm. So you're in favour of the death penalty for grown-ups, too, or is it only "disobedient kids" you want put down without a police enquiry?
I repeat the Godwin bit: you know who else said there was a minority of people irredeemably born without empathy, who would prey on the innocent unless "dealt with" in a fatal manner?
You're clearly very uncomfortable with the idea that some people just like watching other people suffer and die. You even go so far as to label premeditated murderers as "disobedient children" (today's euphemism nonpareil) which expresses a deep desire to see these individuals as misunderstood and emotionally vulnerable.
But deep down I think you already know you're wrong. For as your own argument demonstrates, you are clearly disgusted by the likes of Hitler and Stalin and Pol Pot. And rightly so. All of them were genocidal insects.
It's true that sociopaths in power will often label others as sociopaths in order to consolidate power and inflict suffering. It's an obvious strategy for them. When exploited and manipulated by a demagogue, well-meaning people can become instruments of a diabolical regime. And this is a danger that we as a society will always have to be wary of and grapple with. But we can't protect ourselves if we simply pretend these people don't exist.
I agree. I'm very conflicted on the psychiatric diagnosis of young children and especially on the power of psychiatry to offer any kind of prediction on human behaviour, given how inconsistent previous such efforts at prediction have proved. I don't want to give anyone that kind of power. OTOH, I'm extremely conflicted on this issue, because I have known people who would break your spine for any reason or no reason at all, simply because they felt like it. Such people scare me, and I don't think they should be allowed to roam free. I'm not sure I know of any solution to their problem, and the most sensible thing seems to be to put them out of the rest of humanity's misery. Sensible, however, is not the only criterion to use in determining effective solutions.
My father, a psychiatrist, posits that there are two kinds of sociopaths; well-adjusted and not well-adjusted. The first kind are raised by good parents who do as good a job as possible raising them-they become CEO's and cutthroat lawyers. The other kind are raised by neglectful and/or abusive parents, and they become killers. Both need to be watched VERY carefully, because they will do anything if they think they can get away with it-the well-adjusted ones just have a better grasp of what society considers acceptable.
Once a sociopath crosses the line, he/she needs to be locked away, forever. They CANNOT be rehabilitated.
From my (thankfully limited) experience with them, I would say that they are just not amenable to the usual concepts of punishment/reward. Punishment doesn't frighten them (which is why they can often avoid the "tells" so many of us cannot help – we sweat in fear or anxiety, or twitch, or pant), nor does reward motivate them. How can you rehabilitate someone you can't affect?
The failure to recognize and remove from society those who cannot empathize with their fellow humans is why we have ended up with Hitlers and Stalins and Pol Pots throughout history.
There was a story in the paper about this child molester that the cops caught. It turns out that he'd been doing this since he was ten or eleven — before puberty, even — and thought it was "normal" because everybody had done it to him since he was five or six years old.
that story haunts me to this day. Even if he was lying about thinking it was "normal", that guy was ruined for life at an age when most of us are anticipating our first kiss. He'll never be safe to be around, never… but he also didn't ask for the adults in his family to abuse a five-year-old, either. Should he be locked up before he ruins a dozen more lives like his was ruined, and *they* go on to ruin lives? Of course. But he never had a chance, did he?
Actually, the article said that psychiatrists are starting to see psychopathy as a neurological condition, which means a) they are not evil, just ill, and b) there is the possibility of treatment somewhere down the line.
This is what worries me: psychiatrists group a number of symptoms together and call them a syndrome, which they propose to treat in a certain way. THEY determine the diagnosis. Psychiatry does not have (pharmaceuticals aside) a very good track record of dealing with mental illness, even those that they define in their standard Diagnostic Manual. I don't like the idea of allowing psychiatrists to determine what exactly a psychopath is, barring further hard scientific evidence of brain differences that show clear links to behavioural differences, and cures therefor.
I read a longer excerpt of this same article. the doctors who are conducting this study think that "psychopath" might be a diagnosable and controllable brain thing like epilepsy. They're trying to figure out how to do that, and also what to call this… brain disease… so that the kids and their parents are not stigmatized by the word "psychopath". There were a couple of comments to the effect of, "I used to be like this, and then I started feeling differently around age 13. I don't know what changed, but something did.", which lend support to the idea that it's a ?? neurological? condition.
I hope the researchers succeed.
Oops, shoulda looked downthread before commenting.
" just get rid of the kid"
You mean, literally kill it?
The boy was proud of the serial amputations, which his parents initially failed to notice. “When we talked about it, he was very straightforward,” Frick recalls. “He said: ‘I want to be a scientist, and I was experimenting. I wanted to see how the cat would react.’ ”
That's some fucked up Dr. Mengele shit right there.
Hey, Kid: React to THIS.
C_R_Eature, you are like Wonkette's Music Supervisor. Thanks for all the links. I'm liking the soundtrack.
I am very happy you're enjoying all those – I like to share music.
Music is how I keep myself (relatively) sane and (moderately) calm.
Hahaha! I love those guys.
Blitzkrieg Bop, baby. That's what I'd blast out from the helo's speakers instead of Wagner.
No love for "Cretin Hop"?
Maybe I'll try watching that with Blitzkrieg Bop.
I like all kinds of music and roadsters with better than adequate stereos. Used to work at a place in Secaucus, NJ that had a parking lot that would flood out occasionally. When it did the pavement would be slick with oil for days after the flood subsided, but you didn't know that on a nice bright Monday morning.
The work force would have to line up outside while waiting for them to open the door for the next shift and I came in with the top down on the Miata and "The Ride of the Valkyrie" blasting on the stereo a lot faster than parking lot speeds and turned slightly to go into a parking spot. In front of dozens of people waiting at the Roach Coach and waiting for the doors to open, I went into a drift, turned 180 degrees and slid backwards into the parking space I was planning to head into. My coworkers, mostly inner city youths, gave me an ovation. Two parking spots over and I would have gone into the Meadowlands. Several of the 'kids' have me write down what the music was as they had never heard it.
(Hugs the CRE) Yah. Very upsets me too.
Back in the day, my brother and his punk band shared the stage with them at CBGB's, and described my mom at one of their concerts. She was kitted out in her best powder blue polyester pant suit, (as was the fashion of the time), and had no idea who The Ramones were, and why there was all this fuss over that weird kid with hair in his eyes.
That is too awesome for words.
I'd would love to have seen this.
Yes, my crazy brother, known as 4-Way(!), has LOTS of stories from his days as a punker in England, San Francisco and NYC.
He was actually BANNED from CBGB's for 10 years!!
(I don't even want to know what'll get you banned from CBGB's!)
Banned from CBGB's? For 10 years!? Hell, now I want to know just what kind of over-the-top aberrant behavior gets banned from CBGB's!
Like the stuff happening onstage wasn't Aberrant enough…
Great stories.
Well, he is 6'10" and loves to hang on things from the ceiling, so maybe he caused some serious damage. (Nah…I'll bet it was drug related!)
We were there for his "welcome back gig." It was his birthday, so, (of course), he had a couple of very skanky strippers on stage, and pelted the audience with handfuls of the sheet cake, that my mom spent all day looking for (she never learns).
The owner just sighed wearily and said, "welcome back, 4-Way."
I remember CBGB's from when they had only a few photos on the wall. I knew a guy who was playing there with a group that specialized in what they called 'Discrodance Music.' If that stuff didn't get banned I can't imagine what would. I don't even remember enough about music theory to describe it, but it seemed to have a major objective to NOT follow harmonic patterns.
Once I saw a a band whose name I don't remember since in the late seventies there were a lot of groups that played CBGB's because they had 'fame' at some other little club in NYC, but the lead guitarist did an unzip and show after a particularly stimulating guitar riff and a few weeks latter they were back again. And he did it again and the crowd went wild again.
A conversation with a college buddy resulted in him telling me we went their and saw the Police when he came through to visit in '78 I don't remember. I DON'T REMEMBER?
Iggy Pop used to dance around onstage with his Unit dangling wild and free. Perhaps it was he. There's a notorious photo of that – probably snapped onstage at CBGB's – that I just cant' locate online. Yet.
Scientist my ass.
Experiment my ass.
A kid with the intelligence to come up with answer like, "You didn't do a very good job of brainstorming, did you?" has the intelligence to understand that being cut to pieces hurts like hell.
That little shit knew damned good and well that the poor cat would "react" by suffering horribly, and did it anyway because he enjoys torturing a helpless animal.
Those parents had keep a very close eye on their other kids, before they become the next "experiment".
The kid with the "brainstorming" answer isn't the same kid with the cat, from what I make of the article.
However, the "experiment" answer makes me think the kid must be around the same age, and yes, kids of that age know what's what.
Unemotional animal cruelty in childhood is often an indicator of sociopathy. The best indicator, according to some sources. Nobody wants their kid to become Richard Kuklinski.
I really want to be a papa some day.
Stories like these are not helping.
Fare, you would make a lovely dad.
Well, you have to be realistic, love. My two healthy parents had one disabled child and four healthy brats. A friend had her first child die in utero. (She went on to have two healthy little boys, but still feels depressed over the dead child who was a girl and died two weeks before she would have been born.) Some people have 18 healthy children (the Duggars) before they have one disabled child. Some people have one, and it turns out to be a psychopathic little hellion. Nobody expected their kids to turn into Lee Harvey Oswald, or Jack Ruby, or Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer. We all think our kids will end up being Bill Clinton or Barack Obama or Neil DeGrasse Tyson.
What starfangled said. You would, really. I think.
Children: luck of the draw. You do what you can, but you take your chances. I know this because I did almost everything wrong and wound up with three successful, healthy adult offspring. One of many reasons I have an unshakable belief in an ultimately benevolent God. You may now commence with the mocking…..
No, I know exactly what you mean. I'm a shit dad, splitting my time 50/50 between commenting on Wonkette and smoking pot on the balcony but my kids, by some miracle, seem to be well adjusted, popular and even reasonably intelligent by today's standards.
Go figure.
Aw, commenting on teh Wonkette helps get the anger and frustration out of the system, and smoking pot makes for even more of the mellow. I wish I'd been able to do both while my kids were growing up – the psychiatrist bills would almost certainly have been much smaller. They all turned out well, but oh, the shrink bills along the way!
It could be worse, though. My dearest friend has two adopted kids, and the elder has mild FAS. She's pretty functional, and not a bad kid, but she doesn't understand things like consequences. Which means that life is pretty shitty a lot of the time, because her disability is not visible and obvious, but it does get her in trouble ALL the fucking time because she forgets to take her medication, loses her cellphone, can't keep track of her day, etc. Also, too, she is a hot sexy teenager who is cute as hell.
Now THAT is something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. Oh, yeah, and she goes to therapy and also family therapy and OY the bills. Also, too, we all worry about what will happen when her parents pass on. How will she manage?
She'll move in with you and take care of you in your final years. Which will be quick because she won't be remembering your medications either. This sounds a bit meaner than I intended it to. Oh well, that is many years down the road.
You could always sell her to Rush Limbaugh. Two, t'ree cans of hobo beans is nuttin' to sneeze at.
You don't find that anywhere in Dr. Spock, do you? ;)
Mock-mock!
Who's there?
Congrats, dude…
Go on then Arkoday . . . Congrats , dude who?
Ttommy. He obviously did something right with his kids. I have three as well, also, too. Luck of the draw? We can but try our best – and try not to look back and doubt our parenting too much. (Which I tend to do)
I always enjoy a good mock-mock joke!
Oh, stop, nobody's gonna mock you mocking yourself. You couldn't have been THAT shitty a Dad, your kids (and grandkids) love you. Shitty parents end up like my mother, with all the kids splitting as soon as it was legal and never returning, writing, or calling, ever again.
Busted! I'm just trolling for a pity-fuck in the Wonkesphere…
Here's a pity-hug instead, dood. Your son is quite something to be proud of (is he home at last, btw?), and you did a fine job with your girls and the grandkids, too.
Thanks for the flowers, and the hug. Mike is home, hopefully to stay. He remains on active duty. G'son is at Az State, G'daughters are in 6th grade.
Aw, c'mon Tommy! You did fine. Ms. proudgrampa and I constantly second-guessed how we raised our kids.
LIfe is the final performance, with no dress rehearsal. Yoiu do the best you can, and move on.
Too true!
My cats are not LOLing right now. Disgusting little crotch-fruit, these gazillionaire children!
Poor kids can be sociopaths, too. The difference is, poor sociopaths end up incarcerated or dead. Rich sociopaths become CEOs or politicians.
Could you not find any nice Kiddie Cannibalism stories, Rebecca? I am disappointed.
This is precisely the reason I prefer the company of Dogs.
Just be sure you stick with the company of Bow-Wow Dogs and not prairie dogs.
Eh, it's not the Cannibalism that bothers me, it's that they carry Bubonic Plague. That's way up there on my list of Diseases to Avoid.
Prairie dog fleas aren't nearly as aggressive as rock squirrel fleas, which will even jump off of a still-warm, fully-functioning body onto another one. Plague can be treated with antibiotics, too, also, provided, of course, your doctor has the presence of mind to ask you if you've been hanging out around any flea-bitten animules lately.
Oh, so I can hang out with them. Good to know!
I do feel a bit peckish.
You'll want to be staying away from Mother Russia, then. Also, too, yersinia pestis makes its home right here from northern New Mexico to southern Oregon. Stay on the East coast, and you'll bee fine.
That will be no problem at all, as I am inextricably linked to Mother Atlantic Ocean.
Lyme Disease ticks were invented on the East Coast. More specifically in Connecticut home of that other worthless blood sucker Joe Leiberman.
When I was married, my wife and I would lift up the hair on our nephews forehead in greeting. When asked about this by my sister-in-law, we told her we were just checking to see if the "Mark" had come in.
My Mom always told people they were "Nines".
Herman, is that you?
Sssshhhhh!!
OMG, I wonder if that is where they were going with the article photo!
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/magazine/can-yo…
Looks like it, elf.
Well, what would Mother's Day be without This.
Awesome Planned Parenthood ad!
HA! Now, that's funny!
MTV should run this, intercut with their marathon Teen Pregnancy Extravaganzas.
Sounds like my Mom, but WAY less shouty.
The GOP, when they dream of the good old days in America, think of this for Mother's Day http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIaj7FNHnjQ
The GOP also has This in mind. For the future, that is.
Where DO you find these things, CRE? I laughed so hard I almost pissed on — I mean pissed OFF — the cat!
I do love little kittens. They're so soft…
… and easily annoyed and inclined to stick their claws in one ….
I just earned a scratch from an annoyed cat who was sleeping peacefully when I LOLd. They don't like it when you howl with laughter. Tender ears.
Sometimes I seek out Weird Things. Sometimes Weird Things seek out me.
It has ever been thus.
Thanks, Wonkette. I was looking for a reason to be unable to sleep tonight.
Today we are all mothers.
When I feel one of those moods come along, I put on my NRA cap and camo pants and walk around with a bloody red sandwich board sign that reads, "Stay away! I am a fiend. Follow me and I will cut you into little pieces." What part of that don't they understand? The back of the sign says "Vote Republican."
Whew and Yikes! Thanks for reminding me that today is M-Day. Gotta call….
Oh, wait, never mind.
That's a great song too.
Yours too, huh?
Thanks for the song. Loved it.
Uhh, excerpted from a new bio on Newt Gingrich?
WATCH OUT there is an EVIL MINORITY in our midst who will do nothing but EVIL and we must HUNT THEM DOWN before it is TOO LATE. (This message brought to you by every evil cult ever in history.)
I got my callous unemotionalism the honest way — life (especially the George W. Bush years) just beat it into me.
For Mother’s Day: Child Psychopaths
Can't we all take a break from talking about Republicans for just one day????
Well, we visited wingnut mother in law this morning for brunch (example: when my wife and kids visited her in Florida last winter, on return one of them said to me "you know Dad, Grandma said to try to get you to watch Fox News – it's really the fair and balanced station")
Went two hours expecting the inevitable "well, I see your hero has really done it with this gay marriage thing". But it never came.
But the good news is that her computer is so slow she can't track her favorite blogs anymore (Shawn Hanity, etc…) Apparently wingnut seniors end up with so much malware on their machines they inevitably crawl to a halt. Sorry Granma, didn't bring my glasses, will try to fix it next time…. :)
I've heard that right wing religious sites spread more malware than free porn sites. Sometimes karma operates rapidly enough to be observed and appreciated.
And this is just how we will beat them, with malware – brilliant!
HA! That's EXACTLY what happened to my ditto-head tea-baggity grandfather! Eventually his computer got so messed up from visiting all the RWNJ sites that he couldn't even get on it any more. Aww, too bad!
So this is how Republicans grow up, huh? This has been very instructive. Thanks for sharing.
Hey, subsum, where ya been lately, li'l bunny?
I just received a communication from a Learned Gentleman, who has come up with a Proposal that would deal nicely with these budding little psychopaths.
I think it deserves consideration
I like Barb's idea better – grill them up while they're still tender, straight from the Abortionplex.
Although, on second thought, if Swift had suggested dining on the Scots-Irish children who went onto to become and produce the bulk of the great Confederate traitors after making their way to our American shores ….
No shit. We should put signs up on all roads leading into Appalachia: "All Hope Abandon Ye Who Enter Here."
(Brought to you by the American Dental Association)
Can't we do both? Is it too late to eat all the little Confederate children?
That's a good long-term control strategy. We're trying that with Nutria here and it seems to be working.
I hate "Mother's Day" with a passion. Since my mother's parenting style was very similar to that of Joan Crawford as portrayed in Mommie Dearest, you'll understand, I'm sure.
Rebecca, you just didn't LOOK hard enough. What about We Need To Talk About Kevin? EVERY girl and boy needs to read/watch that before making the crucial decision to have their reproductive bits permanently rendered unusable.
Awww, Z. I'll be your new mom.
Aww, you so sweet, you're my favest ever li'l nut. (Hugs starfanglednut extra many times)
I know you'll never drag me out of bed at 3 am screaming about how I need to scrub the toilet floor with a toothbrush till it's sparkling! (She really did that, once.)
I'm sorry that happened to you. Abusive parents are teh WORST. But you have clearly risen above the circumstances of you childhood to become an amazing, wonderful human being, and exemplary wonketeer. (Hugz teh Z back)
If you say so, sweetie. I still feel infected, though.
My Guitar wants to kill your mama.
And EVUHJbody wonders why that is my favoritest song EVUH.
No one here wonders that. This one's for you.
(Hugs the CREature fondly and meditatively)
I hate Mother's Day too– unfortunately, I had an abusive narcissist for a 'mom'. Sometimes with truly toxic people, the best way to deal with them is to sever the relationship entirely, which I did nine years ago– one of the best difficult decisions I ever made.
Also–just finished reading 'Kevin' about a week ago..
I cut her off for many years, but then she got old and sick and needed caretaking, and you know, surprising thing — nobody wanted to do it. I got saddled with her by default. De fault of de guilt-inducing Catholic school I went to, goddamit.
No, srsly. I had to ask myself how I could find it in my heart to be charitable to every cat and dog and person on the street and not my mother. And I couldn't come up with a good argument. Anyway. It's all over now, thank goodness.
That book left me feeling so shaken. It had that powerful quality that the best tragedies have. The reader/viewer sees the inexorable march of events that can only progress to one outcome. But none of the others involved see it, or will see it. What did you think of it?
Very unsettling book– I appreciated the brave psychological narrative–most people wouldn't ever consider the emotional devastation to the killers family. I'll be 40 in a few months and don't have any kids by choice. I haven't wrapped up my loose ends (alcohol, nicotine). I'm practically afraid of kids because I feel so alien around them–it's weird (maybe because I'm drunk all the time and they're sober). I've been told (like a meme) "you should really have one. They'll change your life." Yeah, no shit.
I guess according to TIME's new sensationalist cover, I'm not "Mom Enough". And that's fine by me. I don't want a kid. Is that wrong?
(Great, my avatar has always been a smoking baby. Calling Dr. Freud!)
You know, I never thought of that, but yes. She deliberately chose to examine the devastation of the killer's family. From what little I know about abnormal psychology, she did an excellent job of portraying the killer, too.
Please don't take that advice about kids. My mother did, and look where that got ALL of us. I think if she had been born after contraception was publicly and easily available, she might never have kids, which would have been a good thing, because apart from being a really shitty mother, she wasn't such a bad person. She was certainly very intelligent, mostly self-educated, witty, bright, funny, with a wicked sense of humour (and I mean that very literally), and when she chose to be amused rather than annoyed, she could be fun to be around. Perfect for an *adult* companion. With children, who can't run away or otherwise control the interaction, a complete disaster.
I went through brief periods of wanting a kid, but mostly not, and now I'm glad I made this choice, and not the other, for various reasons. I don't have a lot of patience, and children NEED patience. They also need a LOT of love and careful raising. Fortunately, I had a chance to step-parent and co-parent, and it taught me that parenting was not something I was mentally or psychologically able to handle. There's too many broken pieces inside, and if I don't keep a watch on them 24/7, they're liable to do me, or someone else, some damage. Adults can take that. They can go away, if it gets too bad. Kids can't. And once you have one, there's not a lot you can do about it. I think it's incredibly selfish to urge people to have a kid because it will change THEIR lives. What about the kid's life? The kid didn't ask to be here! And for the kid, the parent/caretaker it winds up with is a life-changing luck of the draw, too.
Hope I wasn't overly and boringly longwinded, as usual.
I'm truly sorry to hear about your childhood. I have 3 kids who I am sure I've fucked up on multiple occasions, one that come quickly to mind, as my son reminded me, was when he was in kindergarten. It was before we found out he was dyslexic. I was going over flash cards of the alphabet with him. There were 5 letters he kept saying he never saw before, even after I told him what they were and then putting them in the pile to be the 2nd or 3rd next. After awhile, I started to yell at him in frustration. Many $20 went into the therapy jar after that. But at the same time, no child should be subjected to what you went through. Be strong.
Thank you for your kind words.
Don't worry about fucking up your children. Children are much smarter than most adults give them credit for, and they don't suffer permanent scars and trauma as a result of being yelled at or even hit once in a while, as long as they feel safe in discussing the experience. That's not abuse, it's temper, or bad judgment, or stupidity. Kids don't *like* being yelled at, but they know it's not the end of the world, either.
I'm dyslexic too, although I don't think that was the source of my disagreements with my mother.
I declare this comment Teh WIN of Teh Day.
He is Evil Personified, along with his daughter, Evil, Jr.
Thanks!
Oh, no, thank YOU!
OT, but "liberiterian" Randy Paultard continues to make a fool of himself on matters of 6000 years of tradition combined with "anthropological" evidence.
Jesus, what a fucking nutbag. I thought doctors were required to know a LITTLE science, at least.
I have no snark about psychopaths because I once had a friend who turned out to be one. He did some serious, lasting damage to me and my friends before we figured it out.
Anyways, reading that article brought scary flashbacks and now I want to rip my ovaries out with a coat hanger. Also I am thanking my lucky stars that my kid is a normal 5-year-old and not a horror movie waiting to be made.
MOVE YOUR HANDS AWAY FROM THE OVARIES! Seriously, I'm really sorry.
At the risk of being TMI, I don't need 'em anyways. And thanks – that shit went down almost ten years ago so I'm pretty well over it.
I'm so sorry, bb. The only plus I can think of is that now my radar is very finely tuned to them, and I can smell one a mile away. I offer that as a sort of consolation.
Please don't rip out your ovaries with a coat hanger. You could get a nasty infection that way. Perhaps just a little laparoscopic snippety-snip instead. And yes, one always worries and is grateful when one's kids turn out to be something like normal by the time they hit 30, anyway.
That IS a plus. I learned the same thing! Fortunately i have been able to avoid them in the years since.
And don't worry, I'll use a plastic coat hanger and Lysol it first. That's how the professionals do it, right?
Uh, urk, erm, ladyparts. I think I feel faint.
Things are much too hard today. I hear every Mother say:
raising Psychos for her husband's just a Drag…
Maybe you should stay with Yo Mama.
I used to sing that OUT LOUD sometimes, when trying to provoke a fight in my wild and wicked yoof.
I'll bet it worked. "Your really kind of stupid and Ugly, too."
My favorite Frank Provocation Tune was, of course, Dumb All Over.
I've lightened up a lot since Those Days. Life's too short to go looking for trouble. Enough of it shows up, unannounced, by itself.
Ain't dat de troof.
As I read the article, an add for Family Guy featuring Stewie popped up.
Y'all need a
BIG MAMA
Oh, baby, baby, that sweet woman can MOAN.
To
Rock You
Then
Everything Gonna Be Alright
That is One Red Hot Mama!
Big Mama rock you, you KNOW you been rocked.
Excuse me, I must finish my orgasm.
Awww, Mama, can this really be the End?
to be stuck inside of Mobile with the Memphis Blues again.
Today we are all psychopathic children.
It's not nice to fool Mother Nature.
I'm talking to YOU, Cleveland!
Unrelated to psychopathic children, but related to Mother's Day: the Annual Mother's Day Pow Wow is going on in the park across the street from my house. Mostly Alamo Navajo, with some of the southern Pueblos in attendance. Apparently, to the participants, it is superior to the big one in Albuquerque, which is mainly a money-gouging enterprise. This one is free to all participants and visitors, and there are awesome native drum circles all weekend, 'til midnight, dancing, costumes. I just hang out on the porch and listen, and dig it, completely.
That sounds like an outstanding way to spend a weekend.
If you've never seen one of these scenes, it is really friggin awesome. The drum is 5' diameter, made of cottonwood trunk and goat skin. 15 people will sit in a circle around it, playing and chanting the characteristic song, while the dancers go into a weird spiritual trance. Songs blend into one another, and it's one continuous 12-hour freakout. You gotta see it if you get the chance.
That Spongebob chant is now, officially my Newest Favorite Thing. Thank you.
I'll bet that you can feel the drumming in your bones, all weekend. Awesome.
This would be the only thing that would get me so far away from the Ocean. I'd go in a minute.
Their (The Black Lodge Singers') entire ouvre is really something to behold. Check out such unforgettable songs as John Wayne's Teeth, Mighty Mouse, Ask Your Mom for Fifty Cents….You really can't miss.
Hey, everyone, Mama said lighten up!
Mama said? Mama said?!? You really want to play that game?
Dear God…I followed that link and wound up listening to KRS One. I've spent over 50 years schlepping this pebble…Where.The.Fuck.Have.I.Been??
OT, but why is it that when players play freaky (but good) stuff, it's usually on a Strat?
Ummm…okay?
I'm confused.
Why'd you use a photo of M. Bachmann without her makeup for this article?
All right now, this is Way off Topic but I just found this and it's too good not to Share. So sue me.
That looked a lot more fun than piano duets with my sister when I was a pup.
Agreed. Actually, that looked like a lot more fun than any bass lines I've ever played.
Are the Azerbaijanis anything like the Kardashians? They look like they're fun people!!!
I'm sorry…
I ran into a friend of mine who lost her mom last year and she's still bummed…and rightfully so. I lost my mom in 1980. I tried to comfort her by telling her to hang in there. The first 25 years are the hardest.
Happy Mother's Day, Wonkette.
Nancy Reagan said "JUST SAY NO". I never had to use a condom when I was a teenager because my Momma told me not to come.
Totally — roasted corn and Navajo Tacos!
I don't have any Azerbaijanis (that I know of), but I do have some Ukranian grad students next door. They're pretty fun, too.
I just got off the phone with my youngest pup, who called me to wish me a Happy Mother's Day. I wiped a tear offa my face and thanked him for being the first person in recent memory who called me a mother without adding another two-syllable word starting with "f".
The one I usually get called is pronounced "Mutha."
Aw, that is SO sweet! Congrats, pdog, you must be a good Daddy to be getting Happy Mother's Day calls!
Why (Some) Psychopaths Make Great
LizardmenConservatives/RegressivesGOP LeadersCEOshttp://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffbercovici/2011/06…
Thank you for that link. I was just discussing that story with a friend.
As a last Mother's Day gesture for this year, I post the all time greatest Mother's Day song ever recorded by anyone. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_rBidCkJxo
Okay, I'm trying to stop drinking before noon. Sheeeet, where's the vodka?
Well, thank you, Rebecca. I'm going to go get an abortion now.
Like you ladies need an excuse.
Is it just inflicting harm on cute animals everyone likes that get you labelled a psychopath, or would something like piling stones on ants to crush them or cutting them in half just to watch both sides squirm get you diagnosed as well?
Not that I ever did anything like that; it was my neighbors' kid!
It seems it's not cool if it's mammals.
Every damn kid used a magnifying glass on ants (and now feels guilt over doing it), but doing over a cat is not on, ever.
There's an ongoing question about how much brain matter/structure you need in order to be able to feel pain. A simple aversion to life-threatening stimuli is not sufficient to indicate pain. Dracula ants, for example, chew through the integuments of their young and dine on the lymph therefrom, and EOL informs us that the larvae have been observed attempting to escape when hungry ants enter their chamber (although how the larvae know the adults are hungry, the article failed to explain).
So, do ants feel pain? And if they don't feel pain, does it matter if you kill them by crushing them or administering a painless substance in their food? Clearly it matters with a mammal, since mammalian brains have demonstrable pain circuits.
Well, this just goes to show what I always said, I should have swallowed more.
"I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die".
I wrote Mom an email saying "I didn't get a card out in time, but will fix your Hope Chest when I am on the farm again".
BTW: None of that is a euphemism.
She replied "Fixing my Hope Chest is better than a card, thank you".
That's very sweet. It sounds as if you have a nice relationship. Also, too, it's so much nicer to receive a practical gift, like getting something fixed. Cards you have to throw away eventually.
Dear Wonkette,
Thanks for terrifying my pregnant wife. I super appreciate it.
Regards,
Zhollows
Lou Sarah makes a good case for sunscreen, though.
Congratulations on having a wonderful mother! I hope you get to see her soon. My best wishes for her continued health and wellbeing, and yours also.
Did you like how my apology didn't state "IF I offended?" I apologize like a Democrat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY84MRnxVzo
Watch the video
I’m in a good mood in any case, since the la principessa Italiania and I have split. Great God a-mighty, I’m free at last!
Are you serious? I didn't see that coming, I swear. Are you okay? Are you glad that you aren't shopping at Prada for her today? No, that was not supposed to be snark.
At least it wasn't Asta or Astro.
Is there any blog post on which you won't excuse the deaths, Arken, or try to shout down anyone who mentions them?
~
Yes, I am doing both things, especially shutting you down, because I have the power to do that.
Yes, pull out the crazy, not the hair. Go ahead and have a cry. It's always good to get it out. But later, go find something to laugh hysterically at. Whether it's old Monty Python, or Parks and Recreation, or The Office or PG Wodehouse. Whatever gets to you.
I can be in the worst spiraling bummer, wondering if life is worth living after all, and a good dose of Steve Carell or Will Ferell or Eugene Levy or Jeeves and Bertie can blow all the uglies clean away.
I don't mean to be too pushy or instructive, and I apologize if I'm coming off that way. Just humbly sharing what works for me. Hope it's helpful. I care, and i get the strong impression a lot of others here admire and care about you too.
or try to shout down
Bold added for the comprehension-challenged.
It's a big internet out there, Arken. You've got over 1600 comments on this blog alone.
Care to link to (or at least quote) a comment of yours in which you've objected to what we've been doing in Aghanistan since our President Hope and Change took office?
~
Nah, I have a life.
Blushing.
Guess I'd better go get that old copy of James Thurber off the shelf.
Thurber is an excellent choice. I might have to hunt up a copy as well.
Also, look for That Mitchell and Webb Look. Uneven quality, like most sketch comedy, but mostly hysterical. And Flight of the Conchords is just so sweet and gentle in its insane alternate universe.
The best part of it is the top comment: "thumbs up if ellen degereres brought you here :)"
Somewhere, a million moms are crying, on Mother's Day, even, because of The Lesbian.
I've always preferred this arrangement
"Sir Digby Chicken Caesar" is one of the funniest things I've seen in a long time.
Enjoy your day, Arken ;)
Yes, they are truly unhinged, in the finest tradition of British comedy.
However, other than the internet, I don't know where to find them anymore. I think they are still on BBC, but not BBC America these days.
"Wanna go for a whirl with a Cretin girl!
Hey! we can say Cretin here! No Filter!
Cretin Cretin Cretin Cretin WOOHOO!!!!
EDIT: yeah. I'm a little Disturbed.
I know I've tried to find 'em on Netflix. Can't be done.
And my all time favorite:Siting here in QueensEating refried beansWearin' out our magazinesGulpin' down thorazinesWe ain't got no friendsOur troubles never endNo Christmas cards to sendDaddy likes menI'm so old, I saw these guys, along with the Talking Heads, for $4.50.
Wow! That's both a great lineup and a great price! Where?
I saw them in a crummy little joint in Dover, NJ. Just them, and it didn't cost any $4.50, that's for sure! Wild crowd. Zippy the Pinhead danced onstage to Pinhead
"Gabba Gabba Hey!"
One of my best friends was a NYC cabbie back in the day. He stopped in a bar at the end of his shift, and the no-name bar band introduced their "guests", two members of the Ramones. They played for an hour and did like 50 songs.
Good times.
You'll like it.
Hey Ho! Let's Go!
Tiny little dive in Boston called the Orpheum.
My favorite t-shirt said that. A long time ago.
She was born in the (Chinese) Year of the Rat. We used to joke about being able to tell because of her beady little black eyes.
They loved to play the Dives, didn't they? D' Show Place was a titty bar by day and Rock N' Roll by night. Only thing good was parking. And quick getaway access.
We are officially 'Mitchell and Webb' hipsters. When the rest of the world discovers them, we can be all, "I was into 'Mitchell and Webb' before they were popular." *eyeroll* *worldweary sigh*
Individual sketches can be found on the internet, such as http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDIojhOkV4w
and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_4J4uor3JE
???
Flight of the Conchordes is in my Netflix queue.
It's on netflix! "That Mitchell And Webb Look"
I was watching it just the other day.
Deity forbid! I would have to look after HER. And if there's ONE thing kindly old Unca Polcat does NOT need, it's a cute, hot, sexy little teenager with weird psycho druggie friends whom she brings home at every hour of day and night!
I already did my bit with looking after druggie friends in my yoot. I'm too old to do that shit any more.
I’m fine, delighted to be alone. She was a Louis Vuitton girl.
But to remove all people with a tendency, rather than a track record of behavior, is to ignore the fact that the tendency does not automatically equate to societal detriment. It sounds like a trait that would be likely to crop up in society no matter how many proto-sociopaths you culled (being an asshole is often a competitive advantage).
I bet you $50,000.00 you will be back together before Memorial Day.
Being a Louis Vuitton girl is an enormous red flag. An LV bag screams, "You can't afford me, but you can try."
You’re on.
The experience (in a class, you pervs) was enough to tell me I couldn't go into medicine like I'd always thought I would. I don't like cats much, so the actual dissection wasn't too hard on me, but it made me think about whether I could ever be that clinically distant with people – or would I be worried the whole time about the patient's life, and what me fucking up would mean to their family? So it turns out I'm too empathetic for some jobs – even though I am a callous asshole in a lot of ways.
I'll come there and rub her down in Nolet's Reserve Dry Gin, lightly sprinkle her with vermouth and stick a blue cheese stuffed olive between her ample breasties and you WILL get back with her.
HAHAHAHA! Delightful. Perhaps some of him is finally being useful, turning into coral and supporting sealife. Mum's partially sunk in a touristy river, doubtless scaring the living shit out of romancing couples. If she keeps them from reproducing, she will have made some small amends for her miserable parenting skills.
I LOVE morbid stories, especially post-mortem stories. I have a book on the shelf right now, I think it's titled "Dust unto Dust," and it's amusing anecdotes about famous dead people. Not the one about bizarre things that happened to dead people (which I also can't remember the title of, I just read it a year ago, or something).
Anyway, just remember that I grew up on such titles as Ruthless Rhymes for Heartless Homes, and you'll have some idea of what I find funny. From that book:
Billy, in one of his nice new sashes
Fell in the fire and was burned to ashes
Now, although the room grows chilly
We haven't the heart to poke poor Billy
And people wonder why my whole family turned out weird.
This reminds me of a friend of mine, now deceased, ex-VN vet who had a kidney transplant shortly before his death. He had lost most of one leg in VN, rescuing his buddies. When he was in the hospital, he kept telling the nurses he was fine and wanted to leave. So his wife stole his prosthetic leg. She said it was the only way to ensure he stayed in that bed. Poor guy!
How will you find time to read 233 books, when you are so busy molesting delivery persons?
Oh dear. I foresee an addition to my reading list.
Thank you.
I just quoted that whole damn verse a day or two ago, right here in the fields of Wonkaderoette.
Do I know. There was a time when I could recite "Highway 61", "Subterranean Homesick Blues", "Tombstone Blues", "Motorpsyco Nightmare" and many others with a high degree of accuracy. Now barely able to remember what relative does what on "Maggie's Farm". "Blinded by the Light" fugeddaboutit!
Absolutely. I'm not arguing for taking people out based on *thought* crimes. I'm arguing for taking out those who have already *demonstrated* that lack of empathy by crimes against THE PERSON. Crimes against property just don't merit killing in retaliation, in my opinion.
I missed that!
I used to know more lyrics, but there's only just so much room…
Sorry, I get a little nuts over that kind of epididymustake.
I love that song they did about compiling research: "I Want a Piece of Data"
Great to hear that, Ttommy. I was happy when POTUS announced the troops were coming home from Afghanistan because I knew your heart would rest easy for your son. Good lord, the kids are nearly all growed up!
Multitasking UNIX geek.
I'm never gonna make it through them all, babes. I think I'm gonna have to just admit that and enjoy what I can. Especially with all the other shit I have planned for this year. OY!
Yeah, me too!
That was back in the Old Days, when compiling programs took twenty twenty twenty four hours, and you had to get every meal To Go.
Okay, but consider yourself warned.
I'll be long gone within the next 20 years. I hope. Well, actually, I PLAN.
Dad was always the one who got selected to go check out the weird noise in case it was a serial killer.
Tee hee!
I'm the dad in my house. My job is to feed the chickens in the morning and collect the eggs.
Then about 6:50am, I make those eggs into breakfast. Then I pack up the lunches, then I drive them to school. Then i go to work all day. Then i come home and make 'em all dinner. Repeat ad nauseam with trips to the piano teacher, voice teacher and play rehearsals added to the mix. Thank God they've lost interest in soccer and ballet.
Good news is I don't do the laundry. My wife does that. Summer break, spring break and Xmas break. (She's a school teacher, so laundry in our house gets done three or four times a year.) I do my own laundry at work, where we have a couple washers and dryers.
Better news is my kids (although maybe a tiny bit spoiled) aren't sociopaths. I'm pretty sure i had something to do with that.
Genetics, maybe?
Nah. It's nurture, not nature, for you, bub. Sounds like you did a good job raising 'em.
Although, you know, sometimes you KNOW the parents concerned and you just can't think what they could have done to deserve such rotten children. Or you wonder what goes on behind closed doors that would result in such screaming dysfunction in an apparently normal family.
Mmmm….fresh eggs every morning. Sounds like your family has it pretty good.
As a primitive form of birth control, I used to to tell my then-girlfriend (now wife) that if i ever had a son, I'd name him either Zulu Warrior or Mars Lander.
A daughter would be named Burien. (Seattle joke.)
True story. My friend Art and another guy were killed in an avalanche while back country skiing in Colorado's Sawatch Range. His parents brought us his urn and asked that we scatter him some place nice in the same range, per his will. A lot of locals showed up and we all skied up a high valley, but as we approached an old miners cabin, some people started whining about "It's too cold" or "It's too far." So we said some kind words and scattered Art's ashes, on top of three or four feet of snow.
Next summer when I happened to be up at that cabin, I noticed that after the snow had melted, there was Art, right where we tossed him.
Since you are staying, does a question mark go inside or outside the quotes?
I feel his pain.
My high school lab serial killer training was to cut up and identify the muscles on a cat. My cat was grotesquely obese and had been hit by a car, or something else that exploded half of his circulatory system. My lab partner and I spent the whole time trying to get the fat cut away.
40's and 50's, I would hope so! Unfortunately, I have not.
Cephalopods Ripped My Fish.
These people can never look on the bright side of anything, can they? Fuckin pessimists!
Depends. e.g.:One of the questions Ann asked Mitt was, “Do you we have to do it in the Missionary Position all the time?”How else could Mitt answer, except to say, “Yes, we do, Ann.”?
That is the most beautiful (in a spectacularly disgusting way) example I've ever seen. Thumbs up and watch out for the vomit.
A lesson I am unlikely to forget.
Thanks (I think).
Thanks. What a great playground this is, where grammar nerds are the philosopher-kings. I never cease to be amazed at how what I think are my pithiest, cleverest comments garner only a few p, whereas relatively obvious ones are bathed in a golden shower of p-ness.
Don’t forget where Mitt did his missionary work.
Did it work?
HAHAHA! Oh god, poor Art.
You are a wonderful person and don't let anyone tell you different. I give special kudos to adoptive parents. Those of us who end up with kids know quite well that sometimes it was an "oops" — too lazy or tired or rushed to take precautions, and ya do what ya do. But ADOPTING children who have been wounded like that — that takes a very special kind of love and courage. Congratulations to you, your fine partner, and your wonderful kids. I hope everything is working out OK for the children.
ETA: I guess if they're happily-married adults, it did, huh?
Can't keep 'em happy no matter WUT ya do.
You don't think WE had a clue half the time, do you? He used to have these long conversations with us when we were wee mites, still in the thumbsucking stage. I remember the gist of many such an odd, late-night conversation, though not the exact words. He was an errant philosopher burdened with five bratty children.
Our wittiest, pithiest statements appear to be so to us, and only us. Sometimes, people appreciate the sentiment behind your words much more than the cleverness thereof. Cleverness is greatly overrated. Loving-kindness is not.
I love that album cover. It is so WEIRD.
Now, that's Funny!
No, he never had a chance. I've worked with criminals, and somewhere around 80% of them (especially the ones with serious recidivism problems) have been abused as children, and their stories are awful. I don't mean "awful" in the sense of Elizabeth Smart "what happened to the poor little rich white girl" awful. I mean "listen to this and see if you can keep from pouring bleach down your own throat" awful. The bullshit that they make up for the court and the shrinks and the kindly social workers aside, these people NEVER had a chance from the moment they were conceived.
But what do we do about that? It takes LOVE to fix these people, not money. Someone has to be willing to work with them for years, to show them that they are human, loveable, recoverable. We can't even get people to love their own partners/parents/children long enough to keep from hurting/killing them. Where are we going to find the ocean of love needed to turn these people into fully functional members of society who understand their choices and can make healthy ones?
For me, the issue becomes: How much damage can/will each of these individuals do, based on previous patterns? If they are likely to kill and rape other humans, then they must go. We cannot protect society against them, and we have a duty to their future victims. A healthy society protects its weakest members. Without further victimizing, as far as possible, those who would otherwise victimize the weak. It's an unpleasant view of human nature — I like to think we are all redeemable. But I have seen no evidence that people who lack all empathy can ever be induced to develop any. In which case, I have a duty to side with those in need of protection.
Whoa! I *felt* that.
That's pretty impressive.
I used to pull much the same stunt with a '70 GTO, a high-speed diagonal through an ice covered abandoned lot and a screaming four-wheel drift across bare pavement into the first 2 spaces of The Establishment. Suitably Frightened most of the staff,every time, although that one NJ State Police Officer was less than amused.
I love RWD muscle cars.
Probly a bit too old and female for his taste. You got some hobo beans you want to trade for a cute, sexy, hot, sullen teenager?
Upfisted for so-apt comment on Joe Lieberman.
A Lieberman comparison? Shameless Ixodida Libel!!1!
Hope you're transferring the $50K to a checking account so it's ready two weeks from today. I'd like a cashier's check please, no casino coupons.
You'll get back together with her, I'm certain of it.
Really?
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