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          1. Barb

            Lol @ Tebow. I though we renamed him Tesus. I can't wait for Tom Brady to hand him his ass this weekend.

            It's easy to be the first on the scene. I'm playing Zuma's Revenge and waiting for Jeff to call so that I can start that pork chop.

    1. RavenRant

      Rarely happens with the self-righteous scolds on the right. Fairly common among the self-righteous scolds of the DFH variety.

          1. weejee

            Oh no doloras, not even. In my childhood memories, dim as they may be, the self-righteous didn't get bullied so much as avoided. This of course would not include situations in band where someone from the brass section might have clandestinely emptied their spit valve somewhere in the general direction of the self-righteous one.

    2. KeepFnThatChicken

      That said, I still would have voted for the Ohio nutter with the hawt wife before Mr SadEyesAndBrows

  1. edgydrifter

    Sure, but Obama doesn't make me nauseous with collective shame and embarrassment every time he opens his word-hole, so I'm still going to rate him higher than his immediate predecessor.

    1. donner_froh

      Well, there are those 15,000 state department personnel and private contractors still there to keep an eye on things or act as a tripwire, depending on how you look at it. Plus a shitload of CIA types.

      1. RavenRant

        If by tripwire, you mean we'll go back in with a big military presence, I doubt it. If it means we'll bomb the crap out of the place, fairly likely.

        I mean we're bombing a shitload of other places, what's one more?

    2. RavenRant

      That is good news. No snark. Now, if we can just keep them from invading another country where we'll be sure to be treated as liberators…

    3. SayItWithWookies

      And he apparently gave Israeli hard-liners everything they wanted, which is why nobody ever accuses him of being anti-Israel. And corporations have him in his pocket, which is why nobody's trying to repeal Dodd-Frank or de-fund the CFPB or moaning about how corporations are suffering under the crushing burden of Obama regulations.
      So yeah, I'm very very disappointed.

    1. user-of-owls

      What, and miss out on auctioning off the right to push his miserable cement-laden carcass off it instead? We could probably make a nice downpayment on the national debt from the proceeds of that sort of thin.

  2. weejee

    A government of the corporation, by the corporation, and for the corporation, shall bring the 0.1%ers their (un) just desserts.

    Sura 3.14 of the Book of Koch

  3. user-of-owls

    Nader could correctly predict the outcome of the next 632 World Series, definitively answer the question, "What is the meaning of life" and fucking elaborate a goddamn motherfucking unified field theory on a fucking piece of rice and you know what?

    He'd still be a miserable motherfucking cunt with the blood of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis on his fucking megalomaniacal hands.

    1. Mort_Sinclair

      That self-righteous asshole makes my blood boil. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. He's a the worst sort of whore.

    2. ifthethunderdontgetya


      Why couldn't Nader be a peace-loving Saint, like these people?

      Democrats who voted for the Iraq War.

      Baucus (D-MT)
      Bayh (D-IN)
      Biden (D-DE)
      Breaux (D-LA)
      Cantwell (D-WA)
      Carnahan (D-MO)
      Carper (D-DE)
      Cleland (D-GA)
      Clinton (D-NY)
      Daschle (D-SD)
      Dodd (D-CT)
      Dorgan (D-ND)
      Edwards (D-NC)
      Feinstein (D-CA)
      Harkin (D-IA)
      Hollings (D-SC)
      Johnson (D-SD)
      Kerry (D-MA)
      Kohl (D-WI)
      Landrieu (D-LA)
      Lieberman (D-CT)
      Lincoln (D-AR)
      Miller (D-GA)
      Nelson (D-FL)
      Nelson (D-NE)
      Reid (D-NV)
      Rockefeller (D-WV)
      Schumer (D-NY)
      Torricelli (D-NJ)


      1. user-of-owls

        The implication being that Al Gore would have embarked on a war of choice in Iraq that would have then been supported by these Democrats, right? Is that how the dots connect?

        1. Mort_Sinclair

          Naderites are a breed among themselves, usually first to lay blame on others while leaving their guy unburdened. You're exactly right. Would there have been a war in Iraq with a President Gore? Likely not. So I'm thinking all those Naderites owe the families of every Iraqi War veteran, dead, maimed, or alive, an apology. But they won't get it, will they?

          1. user-of-owls

            I'm not so sure, Mort. Generally, when I think of Nader and his apologists followers, the words "contrite" and "self-reflective" come to mind.

            Granted, those words are preceded by, "There is not one scintilla of evidence to indicate that he/they have any capacity to be…", but still.

          2. Mort_Sinclair

            I have to say you are much luckier than I. I have never run up on a Nader follower who exhibited an iota of contrition or self-reflection, with or without the "not one scintilla of evidence" talking point. Gah! Life's too short to spend any time in this way-back machine.

          3. user-of-owls

            True, true. I'm just going to self-poopyhead and give it a rest. The whole topic is neither fun nor funny, and I never should have risen to the bait in the first place.

          4. Nothingisamiss

            Never one fucking iota. I agree with everything you've said. Yes, Gore coulda, woulda been a corporate whore, but we wouldn't be in fucking Iraq, and you know what? Might not have gone into Afghanistan and started another fucking land war in Asia. I fucking hate the repubs the most, but there is a special place in hell for the Nader and his followers who do not see that they, yes they, lost the election, not "Al Gore who lost his election."

      2. Nothingisamiss

        Would there have been a vote to go into Iraq if Al Gore was president? No. No there would not have been.

    3. SayItWithWookies

      Nader didn't lose the election for the Democrats. Remember Al Gore? The guy who pretended he'd never met Bill Clinton and refused to let him help campaign? The guy who was fixated on his ability to express human emotions rather than get people riled up about how we needed to keep the insane conservatives from eviscerating all the work of the previous eight years? The guy who was so fixated on family values that he named conservative pious fraud Joe fuckin' Lieberman as his running mate? If anyone lost the election, it was Al Gore.

        1. Nothingisamiss

          All you need to do as a third party candidate is move a small portion of a close race in a swing state. Al won the fucking popular vote by 500,000 votes. Bush was a weak candidate. And he won because a small portion of voters (and the 1,000 or so voters that were illegally disenfranchised) in Florida did not think there was much difference between the two parties.

          Judges Roberts and Alito and the whole of the US America fucked over until they die also come to mind as life altering events thanks to Bush's election.

          Ummm, there really was a difference. Corporate whores though they may be.

      1. neiltheblaze


        And let's please remember the Brooks Brothers Riot and the Supreme Court's hand in all of that too.

      2. Nothingisamiss

        Sorry, Wooks, I love you and all, but Ralphie lost in for the dems in Florida, that's just the truth of it. Al was completely flawed, weak, whatevs…but if even a small percentage of the >100,000 Nader voters in Florida had voted for Gore, >100,000 Iraquis would be alive to bitch and moan about their dictator.

        1. SayItWithWookies

          I agree that if Gore had won, we never wold've invaded Iraq. Hell, I'll go one further and say that if Gore had won we wouldn't've had 9/11 at all, as he was just as focused on the terror threat as Clinton was and would have continued that focus.

          Nevertheless, Gore ran a shitty campaign and largely ran away from the accomplishments of the Clinton administration because he thought they were too tainted by the stain on the blue dress, and even picked Lieberman for his outward piety as a bulwark against that sort of attack from the right.

          If Gore had been a stronger candidate, any votes for Nader would've been minimal and the vote-rigging in Florida wouldn't have amounted to enough to tip the balance. That it did rests at the feet of nobody besides the losing candidate.

          I respect your argument, but that's my side of it.

          1. Nothingisamiss

            Ok, Wooks, you and ifthethundedontgetya have eased me up on my rabid frothing of the Naderites.

    4. Ms_E_Abernathy

      You mean Bush has the blood blood of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis on his fucking megalomaniacal hands. Blaming Nader for Bush and Cheny's wars makes about as much sense as blaming Gore (and later Kerry) because they were so generic and unappealing that, even with the millions poured into their campaigns, they couldn't garner enough support to win an election unless there were absolutely no other option.

    1. ifthethunderdontgetya

      That'd be after:

      Ceci Connolly, Kit Seeley and Sandra Sobieraj (of the War Criminal Post, New York Times, and Associate Press), with their enormously biased coverage.

      And after Kitty Harris, Jeb Bush, and the Supremes (for stealing Florida).

      And after Al Gore, himself, for making Joe Lieberman his V.P., along with other mistakes.

      Only then do you get to Ralph Nader, Ex.T. And there's a reason you only hear about Ralph Nader as the culprit now: It's because none of them other guilty motherfuckers wants to cop to their far greater crimes.

      "Ralph Nader" is no excuse for Hope McChangeless and our corrupt national Democratic party, and I get god-damned homicidal whenever I see some weak-assed, brainwashed motherfucker bust it out.

      1. Extemporanus

        I was totally with you until that very last line, which was a rather asymmetric, assholish answer to some easy artistic license I took with this dumb post's simplistic headline, don't ya think?

        Oh, and by the way, this "weak-assed, brainwashed motherfucker" lives literally right next door to Nader's 2008 running mate, whom he considers to be an open-minded, even-tempered friend. I'll be sure to ask him how he feels about homicidal supporters such as yourself the next time we grab drinks.

        Have a swell evening…

        8===D ~

        1. ifthethunderdontgetya

          Extemp, you are right. I came back to apologize for that before I read your response.

          As to the Democratic party and people using Ralph Nader to excuse its corrupt and murderous ways, I will retract nothing.

          1. Extemporanus

            I respect your passion, Thunder — apology appreciated and accepted.

            And please accept mine for the crass emoticock mocking the way in which you end each comment. It was either that or invective, yet nonetheless unecessary.

        2. user-of-owls

          Given my post immediately prior to yours voicing the same sentiment, I should apparently now begin sporting a toga and shouting, "I am Weak-assed, Brainwashed Motherfucker!"

    2. GeorgiaBurning

      If Al Gore had carried his home state, who would've cared about some chads hanging in Florida. Or Nader.

      1. user-of-owls

        And if Nader had just spent 2000 continuing to preen and say, "I love you" into his mirror, then Al Gore wouldn't have needed to carry his home state.

        1. Negropolis

          Yeah, I blame Gore for a lot, but the home state argument is awfully weak. I mean, my home state has in Congress right now rabid libertarian congressman Justin Amash and socialist-in-everything-but-name congressman John Conyers. Some states have an entire ideological range of congressmen (and sometimes even governors who've been elected statewide) who couldn't win their state during a presidential run.

  4. BarackMyWorld

    I sure remember Bush expandng health insurance to 30 million Americans, creating a consumer protection bureau, saving the American auto industry, withdrawing troops from Iraq, putting regulations of Wall Street into place, and adopting a timeline to withdraw from Afghanistan. Obama and Bush really are just alike.

    1. ifthethunderdontgetya

      Do you remember G.W. Bush saying that he can assassinate any American he wants to, because War on Terror?

      Do you remember G.W. Bush giving himself and Cheney and Rove a pass on criminal investigations when a new President was sworn in?

      Do you remember G.W. Bush not prosecuting any but a couple low level banksters in the last 3 years?

        1. ifthethunderdontgetya

          It's an argument that given what Bush and Cheney did, and what the American people did in response (the elections of 2006 and 2008), Barack Obama is Bush-Cheney by other means.

          And hell, just look at facts.

          expandng health insurance to 30 million Americans

          The Health Insurance, For-Profit Hospital, and Big Pharma profit-protection Act known as A.C.A.?

          putting regulations of Wall Street into place

          Are you kidding me?

          and adopting a timeline to withdraw from Afghanistan.

          Are you kidding me?

          1. user-of-owls

            Kos ==============>>>

            Oh wait, I forgot! Wonkette is Kos by other means. Because they both have K's in their title.

          2. BarackMyWorld

            "It's an argument that given what Bush and Cheney did, and what the American people did in response (the elections of 2006 and 2008), Barack Obama is Bush-Cheney by other means."


            The rest of your argument basically is:
            5 is a number.
            7 is a number.
            Therefore 5 = 7.

          3. fuflans

            i really really don't get barry=bush.

            he's done a bunch of crap i don't agree with and a bunch of crap i do agree with. but he sure as hell doesn't have cheney / neocon agenda in his back pocket.

      1. user-of-owls

        Personally, I'll always be grateful to President Bush for appointing Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan to the Supreme Court! Thanks George!

  5. Come here a minute

    Yeah, and Bush was totally like Gore would have been, that's why we have these ridiculously expensive carbon taxes. OH WAIT!

      1. weejee

        I think part of Hopey's problem is that he swallows too much of the olde fractured lamestream logic that said Kennedy had to keep playing anti-commie cards (like Bay of Pigs, CIA poisoned cigars, and Vietnam) and also said only someone with impeccable anti-commie cards like Nixon could finally admit that a quarter of the world's population existed and start talking to China.

    1. LettucePrey

      I'm with you. Look, it was either Obama, or putting Caribou Barbie one heart attack away from the big red button that launches the nukes. I still stand by my vote.

      1. horsedreamer_1

        Palin would have totally been Fillmore to Mc Cain's Taylor.

        That is, Fillmore killed Taylor. Poisoning.

  6. deanbooth

    Blaming Nader for Bush is like blaming the kicker for a missed field goal in the last minute of a football game. You gotta forget about the fumbles, interceptions, and lousy defense in the first 59 minutes.

    Clinton is more responsible for Bush. Like the upside down sign at the pedo clinic says "No blowjob, no Bush"

    1. LettucePrey

      "Ralph Nader was second only to Al Gore in costing Al Gore the election." – Jon Stewart's 'America'

    2. Negropolis

      This whole blamegame is the sillinss of modern liberalism. I've seen the Bush win blamed on Gore, Liberman, Clinton, Nader…hell, everyone short of Jesus. After awhile, it just gets kind of ridiculous. I think blaming it on Clinton's blowjob is one of the sillier ones, though. If you want to play your game, we should blame it on the prudish public and/or Newt Gingrich for the impeachment, which ended up damaging Clinton more than the event alone should have.

      Honestly, how far back do we want to go?

  7. Bluestatelibel

    I think we should put the blame for Bush squarely where it belongs: on every ignorant, self-defeating, gullible moron who voted for him.

    1. Sharkey

      That's a lot of people. See, Ralph Nader is just one person – if we can just hate him enough (for his honesty, I guess?) maybe he'll just go away somewhere.

  8. johnnyzhivago

    I grant you Nader was completely correct about Obama, but really do you think Nader could have carried out the duties of President – like the Annual Turkey Pardon or the Easter Egg Roll?

  9. ttommyunger

    Nader is a dick for paving the way for Dubya's election. Obama is a dick for sucking up to Goldman Sux et.al. My only hope is that if he is reelected he will be free of the restraints of running for office, grow a pair and do what is right for the people.

  10. Guppy

    Are we sure "Wonkette Jr." isn't Ken Layne?

    And the first clip reminds me: needz moar Sarah chatting with Comrade Hostess Badanov on RT.

  11. paris biltong

    It seems to me that the important distinction he makes is between intelligence and character/personality. Unfortunately, although he seems to be highly intelligent, much like Obama, he also appears to have a far worse personality, so that he would probably have been a worse failure as a president.

  12. DahBoner

    Completely correct.

    But overruled by the overarching effect of corporations being allowed to fund politics.

    ANY candidate that needs $1B to get elected will always be "politics as usual"…

  13. Mort_Sinclair

    There's nothing like a Ralph Nader war to bring out the vitriol in people who should be on the same side.

    Where have I seen that before? Holy shit, we never learn; therefore, we continue to suck.

    1. Armoured_Saint

      Why so much hate for Ralph Nader? All he has ever done is try to help the less fortunate. Is it the popular thing to hate Nader, just like it's cool to hate Jimmy Carter. I ask my Repub friends why they hate Jimmy Carter, and they say, "He was a terrible president." And I say, "How so?" And then the conversation stops because they can't give me a specific reason. So why so much for hate for a person who has only tried to do good. I don't get it.

  14. user-of-owls

    Unlike me, I'm sure he went on to make something of his life…

    Sure, sure, your friend is teaching empowerment skills to rural Paraguayan women, providing affordable anti-retrovirals in Ugandan displaced people camps and mentoring the Dalai Lama in tolerance.

    But does he have 116 P?!

    I don't think so!

  15. hellbabe

    it would appear that dems blindly support their losers just just as much as those idiotic, crazy-asses republicans….

    No fan of Nader, but damn(!) don't kill the messenger

  16. Antispandex

    Yeah, but when he was saying it alot of people said he was wrong. Now there is no change, very little hope, and almost no hope for change….that we can believe in.

  17. MosesInvests

    I was in Florida in 2000. Had my vote effectively nullified by Nader's narcissistic vanity campaign. Ralph, if you want to talk about cars, fine. Otherwise, STFU.

  18. sezme

    I like this new Wonkette Jr. model. Seems more recklessly full of rage and horror along with the funny. Kind of like that old Newell model or even that Layne. Unsafe at any speed is good!

  19. NadePaulKuciGravMcKi

    Ralph Nader Ron Paul Dennis Kucinich Mike Gravel Cynthia McKinney
    Chuck Baldwin Jesse Ventura Cindy Sheehan
    Ross Perot President Carter

    uncle tom or uncle sam

  20. Negropolis

    He's not some prophet. This is what every third party has to say, whether it is true or not, though, it often is. If you don't tie to the two major parties together as one-and-the-same, there is no use for a third party. The whole point of a third party is to portray themselves as the alternative to the existing system.

  21. Huevos Ocupados

    From now till the end of time every future American President will totally suck balls!

    Look at me! I'm a prophet!

  22. Allmighty_Manos

    Telling us our political system is a disfunctional mess dominated by big money is like saying the weather in Russia is cold. Grea,t but you try to flesh out some more details.

  23. arcadesproject

    I remember when the second worst name you could be called on the tubes for questioning O was 'naderite.' The first worst thing was 'hilaryite'. There really was a degree of hysteria out there in the Hope and Change department.

  24. carlgt1

    I used to really like Ralph and worked on his campaign in '00 but he was utterly wrong back then ie his usual line of "it doesn't matter of the Repub or Dem candidate gets in" etc etc — as I really doubt a Gore presidency would have led to two major useless wars, endless tax cuts for the 1%, and probably Gore & his cabinet wouldn't have ignored all the warnings leading up to 9/11.

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