because that would make sense

Michigan Proposes Helpful Law To Harass Women Who Miscarry

Fetus ghosts demand dignity!

Last year a group of rabid little anti-choice trolls in Michigan pretended to find a bunch of “fetal remains” while they were rummaging through a dumpster behind a women’s clinic, which, right, TOTALLY PRETEND. But this did not stop worried state lawmakers from feeling like they weren’t allowed to appear indifferent to fictional globs of tissue (being indifferent to non-fictional humans is still okay), so they are working to pass a new “dignified disposal of fetal remains” law commanding hospitals and clinics to immediately send someone in to force women who just have suffered first-trimester miscarriages to get them to make some “funeral plans” for the cell blobs… mostly to help rub it in, we guess?

From Detroit News columnist Laura Berman:

Women who have miscarriages in hospitals would have to sign forms deciding how the hospital should handle the remains, by cremation, interment or burial.

These options would newly involve funeral directors, or the option of using them, in situations where women aren’t necessarily emotionally prepared to think they’ve “lost a baby,” and where historically there’s little precedent for doing so.

It also introduces the potential for new costs, not likely to be covered by insurance.

“I think some women will be devastated,” says Joanne Mulhere, who counsels women undergoing loss of pregnancies at Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak, where about 175 women lose pregnancies through miscarriage or stillbirth annually.

Patients would be handed Kleenex, as well as a form to sign, requesting the remains be cremated, buried or interred.

Maybe this is why we are reading just today about how the U.S. birth rate keeps dropping? Sure, this is mostly because “the economy still sux balls,” but dumb laws like this one promising to traumatize the crap out of women over every single aspect of owning a uterus probably do not help. [Detroit News via RH Reality Check]

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  1. BornInATrailer

    At least they did away with the "Baby Gabe" provision that required you to cuddle and sing with the blob for a day.

    1. Neoyorquino

      You'll have to sign a form designating how to dispose of the used tissues (there's an opt-out for those who use an old sock).

  2. prommie

    Ah ha, forget about those special receptacles and not flushing your tampons, ladies, soon, when this "sanctity of all reproductive tissue" movement catches on, you will be required to hold a full funeral for every tampon, followed by formal interment in a sanctified Tampon Graveyard, or risk prosecution for abusing a corpse egg.

      1. chicken_thief

        Dittos. Like an option for all miscarriages during the month of May to be disposed of at the local high school girl's lavatory.

        1. prommie

          No can do, May is a busy month for live-births in the high school lavatories, or else at the restrooms of the facility where the Prom is held! No room for all the miscarriages, too.

    1. io9k9s

      I just got swatted down by wonketteBot for trying to give you more thumbies than my ass can cash (apparently)

  3. Barb

    "dumb laws like this one promising to traumatize the crap out of women over every single aspect of owning a uterus probably do not help"

    I am leasing mine. One more payment and it belongs to me!

    1. flamingpdog

      I hope you don't experience a sudden financial catastrophe and have to have your uterus repossessed.

    2. Beowoof

      I hate to mention it, but I do think you may have an eminent domain issue. Considering how far these guys are willing to go; Well for many it may be the only way for them into a women's uterus.

    1. V572625694

      The law commands them to give the failed mother a Kleenex, and no other tissue brand apparently. Could Kimberly-Clark lobbyists be behind this?

  4. poncho_pilot

    of course, women must be punished for a natural and very frequent occurrence. it's really the right thing to do. today, we are all scarcely differentiated globs of tissue.

  5. SayItWithWookies

    They give you a Kleenex and then ask you what to do with the tiny blob of cells — isn't that redundant?

  6. Sparky_McGruff

    Pro-tip for the "pro-lifer" who might stumble upon this discussion: Rummaging through medical waste bins is an AWESOME idea. Just dive right into that dumpster and rip open those red bags.

    I'm a medical researcher, trust me on this one.

    1. user-of-owls

      And remember, teensy weensy little ribs feel just as pointy as needle points, so if you feel pricking in your fingers, dig harder!

    2. YouBetcha

      Sparky, you should explain the fool-proof "Fetus Taste Test" for determining whether the tissue you're in contact with is in fact actual fetal tissue.

    1. Dok-cupy Everything

      LARAINE: …By the way, are you planning to eat the placenta?

      GILDA: You're kidding! You mean the afterbirth?

      LARAINE: That's right. Many mammals eat their own placenta. It's nutritious, it's 100 percent natural, and now that you're going to have a family, you've got to watch your food budget more than ever. And there's no cheaper meat than placenta.

      GILDA: But is there enough placenta to make a complete meal for my husband and myself?

      LARAINE: Not if your husband has a hearty appetite like mine. And that's why you need Placenta Helper.

      SNL, ca. 1978, never aired.

        1. MissusBarry

          I know a chick who did this. The thought will bring me to the verge of vom for the rest of my natural life. The garlic tampon also grosses me out, but not in the same league.

        2. Nostrildamus

          You know, I used to think so too until I tried Swanssons new "Spicy Cajun" Shake-n-Bake placenta. Mmmmm.

  7. donner_froh

    “I think some women will be devastated,” says Joanne Mulhere, who counsels women undergoing loss of pregnancies at Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak

    Who are you going to trust: a medical professional who helps women deal with this trauma every day or a member of the Michigan State Legislature who moves his lips while he reads and can't count past ten without taking his shoes off?

  8. Callyson

    It also introduces the potential for new costs, not likely to be covered by insurance.
    Life. What an expensive choice.

      1. GOPCrusher

        Seriously, back in 95 I got a letter from the insurance company about my wife's annual inspection and an inquiry into whether or not it was a pre-existing condition. I never did hear back, from my response of "Yes, she had ovaries before I went on this plan." and they covered the bill.

  9. frostbitefalls

    I had a miscarriage at about 10 weeks, and the one thing that would've made the experience perfect would've been a smarmy mortician in a dark suit acting sympathetic.

    1. Urban_Achiever

      Was going to post pretty much the same thing. Any funeral director who had spoken to me in the ER about "remains disposal" would've gotten a bunch of tongue depressors jammed up their arse

    2. YouBetcha

      First of all, sorry. That sucks. Been there, done that, got a $600 bill and a bottle of Norco. But more importantly: before they subject women to this indignity, bitches like me will step in and take a mofo out. If they want to inspect the previous contents of someone's uterus, they'll need to fight me for them. And I fight dirty.

    3. Ankhoryt

      I'm sorry for your loss, FrostBite, and 100% in agreement with your sentiments about a mortician showing up.

    1. Redhead

      They would if they could find it, since first-trimester remains are usually too small to be seen without some magnifying device.

      1. SorosBot

        Of course, an embryo doesn't actually have feelings or even senses until the brain develops later in the pregnancy; but I forgot, these are theocrats who deny proven science and instead believe our mare are actually part of their imaginary invisible magical-mystical "soul". I guess we should also outlaw abortions because they make the unicorns and fairies cry.

        1. Fare la Volpe

          I'm getting so sick of these fetus fetishists pretending there to be some great miracle that comes along with gestation. I had one Christard argue that the presence of a pulse indicates the baby has a soul. Y'know what else has a pulse? A tumor, ya shit.

  10. user-of-owls

    I think this is only reasonable. But then I throw an Irish wake every time one of my scabs falls off.

    1. donner_froh

      No one wants it other than some extremist assholes in Right to Life. The legislature is happy to force health care workers and funeral directors to do their dirty work.

      1. Generation[redacted]

        They just want to protect the fetii, and this is the best way to discourage women from having miscarriages. You'll see. Women will be holding it in to avoid such an awkward conversation.

  11. slithytoves

    Jesus, it was bad enough the vet asked me if I wanted to cremate my cat or have her "disposed." There was only one option I had the money for, and I still regret that.

    1. anniegetyerfun

      You think they could brand "disposal" a little better. Or offer group cremation rates or something.

    2. fuflans

      we have a little pet graveyard in our backyard. one of the few benefits of actually having a yard in my opinion.

  12. user-of-owls

    how the hospital should handle the remains, by cremation, interment or burial.

    Throw in "garbage disposal" and you've got a deal!

    1. Chichikovovich

      There should also be a check – box beside "Mix into moulding clay and bake into a Pope Benedict – shaped toilet brush holder".

  13. Goonemeritus

    I think these concerned Michiganders should also be required to respectfully dispose of their own discharge after they spend quality time with the Sears catalog or that picture of Ronald Reagan.

    1. ghblowhard

      Gentle readers. Jesus being conceived without Mary "knowing" Joseph in the "biblical sense" is referred to as the Virgin Birth. The Immaculate Conception is Mary being conceived without original sin.
      I suppose others since then could have been conceived without original sin but when Catholics refer to the Immaculate Conception they are referring to Mary. Of course there is still the problem of how to determine a)if one has been conceived without original sin (hair like Donald Trump?) or what to do with the remains.

      Sister Mary

  14. sbj1964

    These pro-life Nazi's need to stop. They do not care about women or even the unborn.They only seek to impose their religious world view on everyone else.A woman's right to control her reproductive future must not be infringed upon. This act seems to be nothing but petty sour grapes for having lost in Mississippi.

      1. SexySmurf

        It's just another one of Spanky's multiple personalities. He has, like, 50 of them; you would think at least one wouldn't be completely obnoxious.

  15. widestanceshakedown

    All miscarried fetal tissue will now be FedEx'ed to Santorum's house. The grieving mothers will be sent to Liberty University, where they will be killed for Life.

    Cuz they just haven't suffered enough.

  16. EatsBabyDingos

    "Cremation, interment or burial" What is the difference between interment and burial? Is the interment for the Japanese American fetalities?

    Also, can we add a fourth category for "Placenta Helper"?

  17. Lionel[redacted]Esq

    Glad to see that the Republicans remain the party of smaller government that is less intrusive in our lives.

  18. Lionel[redacted]Esq

    I don't see why there is even a question here, as everyone knows that the best thing to do with human remains is to roast them in a 350 degree oven for 35 minutes a pound, with a red wine glaze.

  19. MissusBarry

    I, for one, would have welcomed the opportunity to incinerate the parasitic fallopian terrorist who tried to kill me in June. Not in a crematorium, but holding the fetal blob with tweezers and taking a lighter to the fucker. I understand, however, that I may be the exception, here.

    1. 102415

      It should have been sent to the chair! A vwery, vwery tiny widdle electwic chair!
      Having watched a friend nearly die that way you get no argument from me.

      1. MissusBarry

        Sorry 'bout your friend's difficulties and hope she's healthy again. I knows for sure,the internal bleeding isn't fun nor is the surgical recovery. I joke here, but I'm lucky I got to the hospital and they figured out my issue quickly as death-mongering-fetus was the last thing I would have ever guessed (I was fixed and regular). At least the only "loss" I had to deal with was type O+, no emotional wreckage, just transfusions.

        1. YouBetcha

          I have a friend whose deadly little fallopian terrorist nearly killed her. I would not have taken kindly to anyone holding a conversation about tissue removal with her, after she had a good chunk of her reproductive system removed from her body because of the miniature killer.

          1. MissusBarry

            Wow, I'm sorry for your friend's problems, too, and hope she's also doing better. I thought it was totally crazy that a friend of mine also had a fallopian terrorist about a week after me (thankfully, she knew she was preggo, so got herself right to the hospital when she started having pain, so it didn't rupture and they were able to remove it with a much less-invasive laproscopic procedure), but it seems fallopian terrorism is a far more common threat than I realized. I really can't imagine the emotional trauma for somebody who actually wanted a baby. If I'd been asked such a question I might have laughed (and then hit the morphine button like a coked up Jeorpardy contestant) because the idea that I'd give it a funeral or something is so absurd in my context. But that certainly wouldn't be the case for most women and, if I was of the normal inclinations, MisterBarry would've fucking killed somebody (even though he has rules: no jail; no hospitals; strippers, not hookers).

          2. YouBetcha

            Oh yeah. Three years of undiagnosed infertility, dozens of painful, expensive, and highly invasive tests, and several rounds of Clomid which wreaked havoc on her body. Only to result in an ectopic which nearly killed her and resulted in the loss of 50% of her already sketchy reproductive system. Same for a colleague who had a molar pregnancy (I don't advise the menfolk Google this), and is now on cancer watch for the indefinite future. I'm sure a discussion about a Christian burial for the mass of nearly- deadly cells was exactly what those ladies needed.

          3. MissusBarry

            How awful! And unfair…I'd prefer not to grow a beard, but aside from hormonal regulation, I have no use for not-for-fun parts of my reproductive system, and came out with all the bits (except for some extra fallopian removal, for good measure). Admittedly, I seem to have some nasty internal scar tissue to go with the visible scar and some other minor weirdness, but my worst aftermath is a totally-in-my-head sensation in my neck (who knew, there's a nerve or something that when your abdomen fills with blood and it pushes on your diaphragm causes a weird neck pain?)…and I hold out hope that even these minor things will improve since it'll only be 5 months Monday.

        2. 102415

          She lived to tell the tale. It was amazing how fast she got so sick, in a few hours really. She didn't even know she was pregnant. The ignorant idiots now spout that there is no such thing as an ectopic pregnancy because "You are not really pregnant then" The Ron Paul morons being the very worst about this subject.
          Glad you came through it we need you here.

          1. MissusBarry

            I can't keep track of all the crackpot fictions the different flavors of morons dream up to fit their warped world views.

            And totally feel your friend, there, with the no idea thing. Retrospectively, the only possible clue was that the tatas were a bit tender, but I attributed that to too much coffee. I thought I had food poisoning, honestly…crampy, bloaty feeling and I kept thinking I'd take a good poop and be all better. Of course, it seems ridiculous now, but I didn't have any better guess and I started hurting a couple hours after eating a kinda rare burger for dinner on Saturday. It wasn't until Tuesday morning that I started thinking I needed to see a doctor. But, silly me, I took a bath, because that helps with crampy bloaty feelings…or makes things rupture or bleed out faster (don't know) and when I got out and felt like I was going to pass out, I decided something really was very wrong. A 38 year old woman in my office had died of a heart attack out of the blue a couple weeks earlier and I credit her with tipping the scale on calling 911. Two hours later I was in surgery. Glad I didn't opt for my normal wait-and-see approach. I now joke that I can't tell the difference between a bad case of gas and internal bleeding.

    2. deelzebub

      I had a friend rupture a tube in March. She thought she was infertile and just had food poisoning. She had horrible bloating and nausea that kept getting worse and worse. Finally, she started having seizures and her husband called 911. She had hemorrhaged 50% of her blood supply. Her blood pressure was so low 10 anesthesiologists had to have an emergency conference call to figure out how to knock her out for horrible surgery without killing her. The hospital staff has no idea how she is alive.

      1. MissusBarry

        Wow, I just can't believe how many people have encountered this. Glad your friend pulled through and hope she's recovered. I take some comfort that it's apparently normalish to think abdominal pain is gastro rather than exploded lady bits bleeding out. I wish I'd asked on the blood loss…I had two transfusions after. I don't remember the anesthesiologist being concerned about knocking me out, and I was conscious and signing my own waivers and stuff, but by that point I would've killed if it would've gotten me a general faster and if I could have stood up.

        1. deelzebub

          She's a trooper; while in and out of consciousness, she cracked jokes about not liking those panties anyway as they shredded her clothes off of her in the ER. She's doing fine after a pretty grueling recovery period. Her mom came to live with her and her husband for a month and she got lots of strong opiates and bed rest. She's volunteering for the Smithsonian now.

          The hospital staff told her she lost at least 2.5 Liters of blood into her abdomen. Like I said, they're completely baffled that she is alive.

  20. Ducksworthy

    Another opportunity for Dr. Ducks nifty feotal embalming and burial kits only $19.99. Comes with near microscopic casket (100% genuine aluminum foil)

  21. Joshua Norton

    Women who have miscarriages in hospitals would have to sign forms deciding how the hospital should handle the remains, by cremation, interment or burial.

    So, now that corporations have been granted full citizenship, would this also be the same procedure if someone starts to form one and then decides not to?

    Since they want a glop of goo to be declared a person while daddy is still on top of mommy screaming "Oh yeah, oh yeah baby", then wouldn't a corporation be a legal "person" as soon as someone just thought of it?

    Inquiring minds want to know.

  22. mrblifil

    Life is precious, sanctified even. It therefore follows that a woman who miscarries (spontaneously aborts as they call it in the hospital) would gather up the sopping clumps and attempt to put a suit and tie on them before laying out $10K or so for a tiny casket.

    Nothing is more fun than asking anti-abortion fundies to stipulate exactly how many fetus funerals they have attended.

    This kind of law is an attempt to tell sarcastic wags like myself to fuck off and die, that they have the power, and they'd rather force people to carry out preposterous funerals rather than admit a lack of logical consistency in their underlying world view.

  23. weejee

    The mortuary lobby is strong in this state. For cremation do you have to buy a $10,000 pine box casket to place little fetus before lighting the fires?

        1. LesPaultard

          Funeral directors have dry cleaning bills too. And maintenance on equipment you don't even want to know about.

  24. owhatever

    Take the same actions as the Pentagoons do for parts of our honored dead from the warz … incinerate, then dump in a land fill.

    1. tcaalaw

      I'm assuming "interment" in this conext refers to putting the remains in a mausoleum rather than a grave.

      1. Dudleydidwrong

        Agree, but I think you mean columbarium (as in a place for interment of cremated remains) rather than mausoleum, which is a really big-ass tomb.

        1. tcaalaw

          Well, perhaps "crypt" would be more accurate, but I meant a building where whole bodies rather than ashes are preserved. I figured columbariums were included in the "cremation" option.

  25. hagajim

    I think if I were a woman in todays USA I would just get a tubal ligation and tell the man to fuck off….that or go lesbo where no repoduction option exists unless a turkey baster and my willingness are involved.

    1. emmelemm

      I would for real get a tubal ligation (I don't have any children and don't want any), but it's a fairly complicated medical procedure ($$$) that is generally not at all covered by insurance if it's not "medically" necessary.

      1. MissusBarry

        Have you checked with your insurance? Some actually cover it as "birth control.". Mine did (and New York State's program for lower income women does, so I imagine it's not the only state)…with normal deductibles (which I planned for by putting extra money in a flex account for that year…had it done in January). I had it done a month after my 31st birthday, unmarried, and childless. Unfortunately, MisterBarry has bionic sperm, so the fallopian terrorist happened a year and a half later. But, I'm definitely a freakish statistic in that regard and wouldn't change that I got fixed and can fuck like a bunny without pumping my body full of hormones forever to avoid babies. =)

  26. OneYieldRegular

    Will there be a fourth option for disposal that reads, "Oral consumption of remains by sponsor of this legislation"?

  27. prommie

    No more sex during pregnancy, guys and girls. That would be sexual assault on an infant, or at least, exposing yourself to the little guy in there.

    1. 102415

      So if you fuck when you are pregnant and the babby inside is a grl and she gets pregnant then is that like an incest?

  28. prommie

    Gene Simmons is coming out with a new line of Kiss Mini-Caskets, for when you didn't pull out in time.

  29. Steverino247

    Most abortions are spontaneous and neither the woman nor any medical professional is involved. Of course, this makes God the biggest killer of babies in history, but let's leave the Big G out of this when there's political spoils on the line.

  30. barto

    And they should be forced to name their "fail babies" and create a college savings account for them and … all in the name of Jesus, of course.

  31. Chichikovovich

    [Pardon my language in this post, but I'm beyond angry at this.]
    Jesus fucking Christ. My wife had two miscarriages in Michigan hospitals. Both times she was absolutely devastated. If some weasel had handed her a form like this it might have pushed her over the edge. Then I would have had to break the weasel's jaw, and I'd get prison time,… It would be bad.

    I will say this. Chichikovna is also a professor at a medical school/teaching hospital here that is typically rated one of the very best in the country. Hospitals get that way by having top rate physicians. Recruiting her to come here was a challenge for the school because she also had an offer from Harvard/Brigham and Women's, and Harvard Med School grads like her never want to go anywhere but Harvard. We've built a wonderful life here, and we don't want to leave, but I fucking guarantee you that she would refuse to allow any of her patients to be given a form like this, and if her wishes were ignored, she would take the Harvard job and Michigan would lose an excellent physician. That would be the breaking point. And I'm sure she would be far from the only one.

    Apparently the hard core right wing loons in the Michigan legislature don't realize, or don't care, that as they keep heaping on these things, trying to turn Michigan into a Calvinist theocracy, those people who would prefer not to live in a Calvinist theocracy are going to start moving out. And once good physicians start leaving, it will be hard to retain even those among the good ones who are OK with living in a Calvinist theocracy – exoduses of talented people tend to become torrential past a certain tipping point. So they'll be left with hospitals employing only those physicians who aren't good enough get jobs outside of the state. Maybe that's what they want, but personally I can see a downside.

      1. Chichikovovich

        Thanks. It was many years ago now, and though it was painful at the time, it doesn't trouble us anymore. But it was painful at the time. Not in any of the ways or for any of the reasons that Pro-lifers claim women must feel, but it was painful. Enough that the very idea of someone handing Chichikovna such a form at that time makes me clench my fist instinctively.

    1. MissusBarry

      I'm sorry for the pain you both suffered. These shit-fuck Religislators could use punches in the junk from all the horrified and livid people. You make an excellent point on the brain-drain issue, though. And it extends into all professions…good breeds good, but people with options won't pick a shitty place to work and live. I don't want some Liberty U grad as my doctor…I'll take the Harvard doc every time (and so will all the fucking fundie nutjobs when it's their body or their family member in need), and that's stuff folks will consider when weighing where to live.

  32. bravo_sierra

    Women, of course, are entitled to any level of grief over a miscarriage, from none (whew, dodged that bullet) to deep despair. However, I don't see what can be gained by forcing them to think of the lost pregnancy as more of a child than less.

  33. Maman

    Will Michigan's proposed law be extended to amputed limbs and removed organs? What about liposuction wastes? Those cells contain all the DNA of a complete human being and should be handled with dignity as well.

    1. 102415

      That's what I remind the dumb crassholes whenever possible but funny to tell I never get an answer on that from them. It could be they don't know what DNA is or maybe they are working on that one next up.

  34. Redhead

    Ummm – what about the majority of first trimester miscarriages – women who don't even realize they're pregnant yet and think it's just their usual (perhaps late in this case) period? Are they required to get it back out of the toilet and bury it?

    And um – what about abortion clinics? Or has Michigan already outlawed all of those?

  35. Tommmcattt

    What, mixing them in with peach preserves and serving them on toast with a nice muscat isn't considered respectful anymore? Or do you just have to use a certain vintage?

  36. Chichikovovich

    OK, I'm calming myself down. Enough to imagine heading off the clipboard holder myself outside the room. And when he asked me to sign the form, telling him "Well, I'm certainly willing to piss on it. Does a urine stain with my DNA in it constitute a signature?"

    Fantasy is a real blessing.

  37. Redhead

    By the way Kirsten, your sign is misleading.

    Instead of whites <— —> fetuses, it should be
    white males and fetuses <— —> everyone else.

  38. caitifty

    Why don't they just give them voting rights, to be managed by their mothers under proxy? No? Don't want all those probable Democrats having two votes?

  39. Dudleydidwrong

    Until the Reich Wing outlaws all contraception (and they're trying!) they'll pass legislation (is that like passing a kidney stone?) that requires anyone who purchases a condom to purchase a small casket with it. Used condom must be deposited in itsy-bitsy casket and taken to a funeral director for proper disposal, with certification sent to the State department of Checking on All Acts that We Don't Like. Creates jobs and protects one-half of the possibly incipient human. Win-win.

  40. DahBoner

    And this new law makes homeless dumpster divers the "eyes and ears" of the law.


  41. boston1807

    i wonder if they want to make a burial process for amputees:" here's your headstone, we put in your leg/arm…once you die we bury the rest as well. "(?)…. so you can bring flowers to your bodyparts. why don't we all start it for our hair cuts and nail clippings too?

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