Certain factions of “Founding Father truthers” are still unable to reconcile themselves to the generally-accepted historical and DNA evidence that white Founding Father squad captain Thomas Jefferson was perenially knocking up one of his black slaves, mostly for the twin reasons that a) as the American reincarnation of Jesus, Thomas Jefferson was not supposed to be sleeping around, and b) he was white. So you see the problem. The Thomas Jefferson Heritage Society has a new book showing that none of it actually happened based mostly on the fact that DNA tests in 1998 only link Hemings’s descendants to “some Jefferson guy, so, uh, probably his brother Randolph.”
From the Moonie Times:
In a book due out Thursday, eminent scholars say it’s unlikely that Thomas Jefferson fathered Sally Hemings’ children, disputing a decade’s worth of conventional wisdom that the author of the Declaration of Independence sired offspring with one of his slaves.
The debate has ensnared historians for years, and many thought the issue was settled when DNA testing in the late 1990s confirmed that a Jefferson male fathered Hemings’ youngest son, Eston. But, with one lone dissenter, the panel of 13 scholars doubted the claim and said the evidence points instead to Jefferson’s brother Randolph as the father.
The scholars also disputed accounts that said Hemings’ children received special treatment from Jefferson, which some saw as evidence of a special bond between the third president and Hemings.
“It is true that Sally’s sons Madison and Eston were freed in Jefferson’s will, but so were all but two of the sons and grandsons of Sally’s mother Betty Hemings who still belonged to Thomas Jefferson at the time of his death. Sally’s sons received by far the least favorable treatment of those freed in Thomas Jefferson’s will,” said Robert F. Turner, a former professor at the University of Virginia who served as chairman of the commission.
This seems like an awful lot of effort to go to when all they had to do was edit the Wikipedia page. [Moonie Times]
{ 183 comments }
It wunnt me!
"Histr'y came in and dids't catch me red-handed
Creeping with mine girl next door
Pictureth this, we were both butt naked, banging on th' privy floor!"
Very nice!
Earworm alert, and best take on this load o' crap I have heard.
So does this mean that Jeffy is back in good graces with the Texas history textbook folks?
And get shoved back in the Tejas Skool Book Suppository? Ol' TJ's just butt pluggin' gaddibbity.
No, because Jeffy was for commie things like the separation of church and state.
Nah, he still owned a Qu'ran.
And he was still an atheist.
Anybody who isn't a Talibangelical is an "atheist."
There's a term I'm going to shamelessly steal as soon as I can figure out how to pronounce it.
So… Obama isn't the President?
Nope. He's a Kenyan soshulist diktater who is gonna give 'Merika to the UN.
Never was. ACORN Election fraud.
Does ACORN own Diebold?
Would you be surprised if Wingnuttia produced a book tomorrow showing that it DID?
No… sadly…
But wasn't Randolph gay?
No you're thinking of somebody else. Randolph was the "Masturbation Guy"
2nd cousin Onan Jefferson?
No, but according to the all knowing Wiki, his sperm could teleport:
The Monticello Jefferson-Hemings Report noted that Randolph made only four recorded visits to Monticello (in September 1802, September 1805, May 1808, and sometime in 1814); none is related to Sally Hemings's conceptions.
That's what made the Founders so Special.
Newt Gingrich has been working on technology that would allow his sperm to teleport so he can become the unquestioned leader of our nation.
Mere evidence is nothing, to a truther.
"I'm Rainbow Fucking Randolph!" So, yes.
Wait, I thought Jefferson couldn't be a founding father anymore because he said the first amendment implied separation of church and state, and rewrote the Holy Bible to suit his Enlightenment philosophy? Oh yeah, he also was a huge supporter of public education … I guess he still gets to hang with the other founding fathers though, if they can prove he wasn't doing what every other slave owner in the south was doing back in the day.
And owned Korans, too, also.
The enlightenment is long over, isn't it?
It was great while it lasted but the Dark Ages had some good points, particularly if you were a member of the nobility or a high official in the church. If you were a serf, well….you had the same health care as everybody else!
But think of it this way, he had an affair which he covered up. If that doesn't make him a proto 'bagger, what does?
(Answer: If the affair had been with a black man).
whoa whoa whoa let's not get ahead of ourselves here. as christine o'donnell said:
You're telling me that the separation of church and state is found in the First Amendment?
it is a bagger's job to question the liberal perceived order of things ('facts') you know.
…for small values of "eminent".
Eminently unhappy with the majority opinion issued years ago. Put the minority into one room, and presto! — instant assembly of "eminent" scholars, who rehash the same evidence and come up with -surprise – their own conclusion.
Truther-type web pages and their boneheaded adherents coming in 3, 2, 1…
And even smaller values of "scholar."
Next, a right-wing think tank will prove that Jefferson never edited all the God and Miracles stuff out of the New Testament and that he never wrote anything about a wall of separation between Church and State.
Then, they'll prove that Franklin was a teetotaller.
Thomas Jefferson is actually Jesus Christ.
Old Ben actually had a good time with the French ladies while performing his duties in France on behalf of our freedoms.
Those were white ladies. On the other hand, they were French … this is gonna be a tough call for the truthertards.
this is almost as confusing as untangling any other family tree from the south.
Damn right. You look at some white folks and think, "you didn't get those lips from County Cork."
ya know? i have thought that. there are many facial features i'm curious as the origin of. because i'm a big dork like that.
but as my grandma says–no matter how many times we mess with her and say otherwise–there's no "black blood" in our family. well, Grandma, maybe not in your first generation Polish and German lineage but Grandpa's from Virginia.
A properly written Southern Gothic must have Wyche's dead gay lover or Minerva's spurned half-negro baby revealed in the third act. Or just rape everybody, Pat Conroy-style.
i could tell a brief story involving my family but we'll save that for my memoirs. nothing supernatural in it either except that it probably happened the year Poltergeist came out.
You haven't actually said any of that out loud to Grammy, have you? Because I'm thinkin', ya know she's going to plotz.
OTOH, perhaps she'll start thinking about how well-endowed Gramps is and …
we'd say it all the time until she'd yell at us to stop. we like to annoy each other.
That DNA theory is just a hoax. You sheeple really believe anything a scienshits tells you?
We're up Shit Creek with a Crick for a paddle.
And the part about Sally being the half-sister of Tom's deceased wife? You know, Tom's father-in-law was boinking the slaves, surely Tom saw this as inspiration. Certainly he believed in freedom, the freedom to do the nasty with his slaves. Hey, that's why god blessed slavery, wunnit?
Also, it's said that Sally looked a lot like his dead, much-beloved wife, too. But of course a widower shtupping his wife's lookalike half-sister is just SO IMPROBABLE.
I hope no one hurt themselves performing that contortion!
It was Olympic-worthy wasn't it?
Cirque-esque.
Actually, I hope they all did.
"No eminent historical scholars were injured in the production of this book." *
*(Because they were hacks. And their spines probably look like jointed corkscrews).
Does Rick Perry's hair count as an eminent scholar? Because I swear it was expressing just this opinion in a YouTube I saw.
But Warren G. Harding was definitely still a Negro, right? Jus' checking.
Don't know about Harding, but Babe Ruth for sure!
Well, if you poke around in the family photo album, some of his aunts and uncles sure were.
If one of these tebagging idiots had actually ever met Jefferson they would have dismissed him as a dandified francophile.
And then dragged him through town from the axle of a truck.
Jefferson was a fit and healthy fellow. I'm betting he would have tied all their scooters together and dragged *them* behind, at least till some of the more obvious fat lumps had been rendered.
That's an image I can enjoy. Fisted!
i promise to address all of these points in my upcoming book Thomas Jefferson: Slave To Ass.
Wasn't 'Randy Jefferson' the name that Tom used on his Ye Olde Facebooke page?
It was his IR porn name.
Jeff Thom.
He also overpaid for the Louisiana Purchase.
Racism is the new black.
Well now at least there ain't no naggers in the woo'pile! Whew. Hand me another Mint Julip, Beulah. I have always depended upon the short attention span of strangers.
Maybe next they can get someone to "walk back" Zombie Strom Thurmond's miscegedescendants' allegations. Unlikely though, since the southern landscape's probably seeded with as many of his mixed-of-kin as there are monuments, parks and boulevards claiming his name.
/ duck descends with miscegedescendants on placard
You have said the secret woid on Wonkette's You Bet Your Life !!!
Check with Ken Layne, no doubt one of Grocho's descendants, about getting the hundred Ameros.
In some circles miscegedecendants is a dirty word.
That's "meshuggadescendants," of whom we all have a few.
Too hard to pronounce. "Mixed-of-kin", on the other hand, is a winner.
Once he went Black, Jefferson never went back. Ever.
Can you blame him?
Instructive that they are not seeking to debunk Jefferson's ownership of a Hemings (or acknowledging that said ownership sorta renders any other dispute superfluous) , just the notion that he made sexxytime with his property.
“It is true that Sally’s sons Madison and Eston were freed in Jefferson’s will, but so were all but two of the sons and grandsons of Sally’s mother Betty Hemings who still belonged to Thomas Jefferson at the time of his death. Sally’s sons received by far the least favorable treatment of those freed in Thomas Jefferson’s will
How does being freed rate as "less favorable treatment"? Was plantation life so damned good?
Was plantation life so damned good?
According to some of these assholes, yes. To which I say, let them sell themselves (or their children) into slavery if it was such a great thing.
Interestingly, why is there even a question that Betty Hemings' children should be freed? No doubt most, or all, of them were half-siblings to Jefferson's wife.
Basically, because he was bankrupt at the end of his life, so freeing his relatives was defrauding his creditors.
Maybe they can put a dickless statue of Ol' Tom in the creationism theme park.
Hasn't he been punished enough by being relegated to nickles and 2 dollar bills?
I thought Thomas Jefferson's wife was named Weezie?
♪ ♫ Movin' on up, to the East Side.
To that deluxe apartment in the sky. ♪ ♫
Did you know 25 year old rye whiskey burns like a motherfucker coming out of your nose??
Is it worse, or better, than younger whiskey? How about older?
I see a study coming out of this. Repeated drinking will be required.
On the other hand, no one disputes the widely held belief that our third president is totally responsible for the Jefferson Starship debacle of the mid '70s.
"Time to get me some of that sweet sweet slave poon-tang"
-Thomas Jefferson-
Amazing.
You throw down some dick 200 years ago and dipshits are still running around making excuses for your world class awesomeness. Fuck that.
That's why he's a Founding FATHER!
Putting "Heritage" in the name of an organization is a pretty good indication of their orientation. And I am not excepting the American Heritage Dictionary from this. Some of those Indo-European etymologies look suspiciously "sanitized."
Sally was his dead wife's half-sister and was three-fourths white, so we're not talking jungle fever here, exactly. More like a case of Halle Berry-Berry.
What they called "yellow" back in the day. (I wonder how many Textards know who the "Yellow Rose of Texas" really was.)
ROSEBUD LIBEL!!!
Oh! I didn't know, till today.
Thank you.
Well, "The High Yaller Rose" wouldn't have scanned, amirite?
"Halle Berry-Berry' – who among us has not suffered from this affliction?
"She makes me regret that I'm gay", according to a gay friend of mine. (Probably not 100% serious, but a good line from a funny guy.)
So yeah, 95% (or more!) of all males.
Jefferson was one lucky bastard
I don't get it, though. Jefferson was an atheist socialist francophile who overstepped his constitutional authority as preznit in ways that weren't completely only just about killing brown people. Why does it bug wingnuts so much that that he was a miscegenist, also?
You forget, this is Virginia, which apparently still hasn't recovered from being spanked by the SCOTUS for objecting to racially-mixed sexytime.
Right, but my point is along with all that other stuff, wouldn't these people just take that as another sign that Jefferson was Morally Weak?
Wait, I forgot. He also had literally lunatic ideas about the value of violent revolt, ever 5-10 years, to civic society, and was the first one to float the unconstitutional idea of nullification, so the secessionists love him.
I mean, never mind that he floated nullification in response to a law that was the Patriot Act of the time, bred with the SB1070 of the time, and included a few provisions so nasty that even our present terrorist-obsessed society hasn't gone so far- all that matters is that it was nullification, and therefore the Confederacy was right.
And that his line about "watering the tree of liberty" was a jest, said in response to an inquiry about a quickly put down rebellion that he admitted he didn't now a damn thing bout. Sort of like, "if that's the kind of crappy rebellion we are talking about, then sure, we should have a few of those every now and then to remind us why we needed a Constitution and why it is so much better than the shit we had before, ha ha". But it looks good on a bumper sticker, so forget the context.
Huh. I actually hadn't heard that, and his fervent support of the Frenc Revolution even through the very worst excesses certainly can be interpreted in a variety of ways, but I'm generally willing to accept that the comment was either in jest, or else far more alarming than even wingnuts' interpretation of the same.
Because having sex with a black women is proof that you are a Socialist Muslim from Kenya. Have you not been reading the news for the last three years? They are just trying to save Jefferson from being posthumously impeached!
Next thing you know, they'll be telling us that Strom Thurmond never sexed that black lady and covered up the fact of their illegitimate daughter for 70 years.
A link for those who are interested
"Strom's Skeleton: The late segregationist's black daughter"
http://www.slate.com/id/2085087/
Well, I just hope that tracy morgan will play ole TJ in the movie version of this book.
'when I die you can do as you please'.. What a nice guy!
Now if he'd been porking male prostitutes or little boys, well, that would be more like it; but the Nears? Can not have that!
Don't you really wish that someone will come forward with proof that Ronald Reagan had an African-American mistress or girlfriend and had a child with her? Imagine how many heads would explode over that, to borrow Cheney's phrase.
As a Deist who had his own personal translation of the Quaran, Jefferson seems like the type Wingnuts would accuse of being a race-traitor. I think this might be motivated more by the Monticello Foundation's desire to increase tourism from the red states.
Monticello had nothing to do with this from what I can tell. Their official site discusses the DNA results, the TJ Foundation's report (in 2000, supporting TJ as father) and notes that the TJ Heritage foundation (same group behind this book) looked at the same stuff a decade ago and reached exactly the same conclusion in the book – that it wasn't TJ, and that it must be the borther (even though there's no record of him being at Monticello at any time when Hemings got knocked up, among other inconvenient details). These are the same jerks who used to claim the Hemings' kids were the offspring of TJ's nephews until DNA conclusively ruled them out.
Jefferson, always a slave to fashion, did what was the fashionable thing to do as a slave owner. But, whenever he got the urge to sex someone, he called his brother. Always the gentleman, that Jefferson!
Jefferson just liked to…watch.
A whole new Family Circus:
DAD: Jeffy, who knocked up The Help?!
JEFFY: Not Me.
NOT ME: Ida Know.
IDA KNOW: Jeffy, you punk ass motherfucker, you had your God-Damned hand in the cookie jar and you know it.
Next, they'll be claiming Ben Franklin didn't fuck every woman he met.
Every star on the flag represents a women Franklin banged.
Every star on the flag represents 100 women Franklin banged.
Common phrase back then:
"Hey Leroy, where you been?"
"Ben Franklin'."
Ben Franklin also scored 100 points in a game of Mumbletypeg, and made casual use of a chambermaid while rehabbing his gout.
"Petticoat diplomacy" is seriously the coolest phrase ever.
Stoopid libruls. Everyone knows DNA evidence is based on evilution.
If the Bible says Thomas Jefferson never sexed up no black woman, then that's good enuf for me!
Tommy was a playa back in the day! He probably not only banged Sally, but her Mom too….that's why he freed those other folks. Besides DNA is science and we don't believe in science.
He must be the baby daddy, because he never made them change the date of an address to the joint session of Congress.
Maybe it was George Jefferson?
FTW
The researchers found that Jefferson was for the separation of church and steak not state. That's is why you only get too greasy fried chicken, beanies and weenies, and the infamous carrot jello salad at the church buffet. None steak.
So…the dissenters think he wore protection when he banged his slaves?
lol. yes–because "he didn't knock her up" automagically means he didn't sex her up.
"Jefferson didn't fire no blanks and neither will i when i'm ridin' around in circles on my four-wheeler shootin' and hootin' and hollerin' and…i wet myself."
I tell you what, those wooden condoms were a bitch.
The wench did endeavor to entrap me!
That's how those underage black girls are, y'know.
Verily, the tramptress doth trot around the house flashing her bare ankles.
Wasn't Wingnut supremo Michele Bachmann the one who once famously said "our Founding Fathers worked tirelessly to bang slavery"?
Yeah, the crazy guy shouting slogans on the corner doesn't really count as an 'eminent scholar'.
So are the
Hemings'Jefferson miscegedescendants' 9/11 winners or losers?At least she wasn't Mexican.
Actually, I'd find it more offensive if TJ was like "You bro. Wanna bang my slave?"
It is ridiculous to try to make Jefferson look like he had sex with Sally Hemings based upon DNA evidence. First of all, DNA is only a scientific theory, and you can't make decisions based upon theories. Second, DNA wasn't even mentioned by scientist until the 1950s, so how could either Ms. Hemings or Mr. Jefferson have any? Plus, the 1950s were well known for Communist running wile in this country. Doesn't it make sense that they might have come up with this whole Theory of DNA just to make one of our founders look bad? Have you even ever seen any DNA?
Clearly this whole thing is just a plot by the Obama administration and Commies to pass regulations controlling DNA in the future. Probably some sort of Cap and Trade legislation is in the works, although I bet if you ask them, they will deny it.
Reparations, also.
Or, as Jefferson put it in a hastily called news conference: "I never had sex with that woman, Ms. Hemmings -he sultry, dark one- not ever."
You know who else liked knocking up the help?
Abraham.
Also Ahnold the Guvonator.
Strom Thurmond
All of them, Katie.
Those who could get away with it, anyway.
Robin Williams?
Hooooo, boy! I can't wait until Annette Gordon-Reed gets a hold of these fuckers and tears them to shreds.
Whomsoever he was fornicating with, I hope he had the good sense to hang that powdered wig on a bed post so as to not get it uncurled.
Woudn't want to mess up a perfectly good weave, now would he? Bitch got his hair did and everything!
DNA evidence is unassailable when it comes to proving that your beloved Saint Thomas Jefferson didn't get no black tail, but when you try to use it to prove evolution, it's completely unreliable and WHY DO YOU HATE JESUS???!?!?
I thought George Washington was the Father of Our Cuntry.
Jefferson hated tyranny, and opposed fornication under consent of the king.
This fits right in with revisionist history books that promulgate the idea that Southern slaveowners were only thinking of their slaves' well-being by refusing to set them free at the time of the Civil War because, after all, what kind of jobs were going to be available for the? In a few generations, kids will grow up being told, as Art Linkletter said, the darndest things.
At last, the 200 year old perp-walk is ended!!
Jefferson went riding on everyone in town, shooting his load and ringing her bells, to warn the British that we were going to be naked and they wouldn't be taking our sexytime away..
You just put an image of TJ in bed and having fun with Sarah Palin that will take a looooong time and looooooots of brain bleach to get outa my head, thank you very much.
OT – Can one of the star Wonkette writersdo a background story on the fact that the National Geographic Channel is 75% owned by News Corp (Fox News)? This might explain why there was a surreal "interview" with George Bush last Sunday on that channel. Thank you and good night.
Can someone get a list of all of News Corp's channels? Please spread it throughout the internet world. Thank you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_Corporation#TV
Can we jump ahead 200 years to George W. and Condi? Who played the slave? Cheney left that out of his book.
INTER-RACIAL SEXY TIME LIBEL!
Man, wealthy landed slave owners get all the chicks.
What about all those records of slaves referring to him as Sugar Founder Daddy?
I can't believe these doofi have nothing better to do but continually revisit old grievances, accusations, rumours, gossip, and recorded history in the hope of disproving something that is pretty widely accepted as a matter of fact.
They should learn to masturbate. It would be a better use of their time.
These so called scholars are probably mad that they aren't related and wanted some of that hot reparathions cash they keep talking about!
"disputing a decade’s worth of conventional wisdom"
Decade's? Everybody knew T.J. was banging Sally.
It was in the papers and ol' Tom never even bothered uttering a non-denial denial.
And are these supposed historians forgetting Jefferson's press conference where his wife stood next to him in a leopard print outfit and he admitted making mistakes?
1. As SmutBoffin observed above: "for small values of eminent".
2. A modest (120 second) search fails to turn up any names of the 13 members of the authorial "Scholars' Commission", except for the chairman, Robert F. Turner.
3. Robert F. Turner iseems to be a bit of an odd duck. He's an academic lawyer (not a historian, shock me), who appears to have made most of his career out of Vietnam revisionism (after two tours). But, OTOH, he coauthored a 2007 op-ed suggesting that the Bush Admin's endorsement of torture might be a war crime, and was certainly a violation of the Geneva Convention. Also, too, basically a lifetime resident of VA and a lifetime employee of UVA (except for the time at the Hoover Institution).
How in the hell are they going to explain away George Jefferson, riddle me that butt-boys?
These guys didn't realize that Randolph was totally gay.
Some people just like dark meat.
DNA is one of those theories that scientists bend facts to fit, just like evolution. I would have never known this if it wasn't for Coulter's latest.
I did not have sex with that woman, Ms. Hemings…
Just another black mammy who didn't know who da baby' daddy was. Nothing has changed in Amoronica. Anyway…so what! Even if old TJ did knock up his little black slave wench it does not mean he did it for love…it was just an inexpensive way to create more slaves…for free. Very cheap labor. At least back then they expected the poor black wenches to work for their room and board. Nowadays they just lay on their bed watching soap operas and get knocked up by thugs so they can get free rent checks and food stamps WITHOUT having to work. The only thing that stays the same is that them black wenches still like to put out da booty.
That fucking Randy Jefferson… I've heard about him.
Well, Jeff Gannon was Lucky Pierre.
Wait, he named his son Madison?
Does anyone get eaten by hogs?
my grandma's kinda fat?
well, fuck it–have to tell it now. my white aunt had a black fiance and she got pregnant–all without my catholic grandmother knowing about it. when she did find out, my grandmother made her get an abortion. the triumph of racism over intense religious beliefs. it is most definitely real.
my grandmother also threatened to kill me when she found out i was an atheist. i love my family. the end.
I think you should write your memoirs. Posthaste.
My grandmother wasn't anywhere near that horrific a person, but we did feel a good bit better when she was under 6 feet of dirt and a box and a vault. In your grandmas' case, I would be slipping the funeral director a benjamin and giving him a wooden stake and a big fucking hammer and asking him to make damned good and sure the bitch was dead.
No shit, this happened in 1982? Tell you what, I'll dress up in Priest garb, go over to your Grammy's place, and thunderously proclaim to her, James Earl Jones style, that she has no hope of avoiding Hell, no matter how she tries to atone, while menacing her with a prop mulatto fetus in a jar. (Actually, Mr. Eko from "Lost" would be much better at this than me.)
well…these are the bad things. i think the difficult thing for me is that she's my Grandma and i love her. she pretty much raised me. so it's:
Grandma who loves me and makes cookies…
vs.
Scary, mean, old racist with lots of creepy religious paraphernalia.
You'd be surprised what a large demographic you just identified.
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