april is the cruelest month

CNN Wondering Why Waco Massacre & OK City Bombing Were On Same Day

Why is April such a mean girl?On this day many awful years ago, Bill Clinton’s government bulldozed and burnt down a rural house full of children and their moms. Why? Eh, who knows. Every couple of years the U.S. government needs to randomly massacre a bunch of its citizens just to keep everybody else in line. (Honestly, if you believe the half-assed Janet Reno explanation that the Branch Davidians’ group house full of people was battle-rammed and set on fire and bulldozed by tanks because some people had guns in Texas, then you really haven’t been paying attention to America.) BUT WAIT, also on this day — exactly two years later, on April 19, 1995 — a U.S. Army veteran awarded a bronze star in the first U.S. war against Iraq detonated a massive bomb outside the federal government’s regional headquarters in Oklahoma City. The blast killed 168 people, including little children at the building’s government-provided daycare center. CNN is super-confused about this coincidence.

CNN asks, “What is it about mid-April and violence in America?” Because obviously, this is the month of April’s fault. Next time the government decides to murder a bunch of weirdos for being in a dumb religion — and how did they narrow that down? — CNN would prefer the siege take place in another month. May, perhaps. That should slow the rush for “May Weddings,” right?

Anyway, CNN people, here is the answer to your riddle: The bombing of the Murrah Building in Oklahoma was McVeigh’s savage retaliation for the Waco massacre. So it’s not totally April the Month’s fault.

But what about other things April did to America, like make those Columbine killers go nutso on 420 day? That is either the fault of Marijuana (“420 day”) or Hitler. Hitler’s birthday was, coincidentally, on “420 day.”

Related video

Here are some American massacres that did not take place in April:

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About the author

A writer and editor of this website from 2006 to early 2012, Ken Layne is occassionally seen on Twitter and writes small books and is already haunting you from beyond (your) grave.

View all articles by Ken Layne

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198 comments

  1. weejee

    And here I thought Reno & McVeigh were celebrating my birthday, so I'll share a card I got today…

    "Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day" Harry S. Truman

    1. emmelemm

      Happy Birthday, sir!

      My friend had a double lung transplant on 4/20, 11 years ago now. She calls 4/20 her "lung birthday".

    2. DemmeFatale

      Happy Birthday!

      My daughter's B-day is tomorrow. When we moved to CA from NY, she was surprised at all the ruckus over 4/20. I mean, she already knows about the Hitler thing and the Napoleon thing, but, every year lots of dudes tell her she has an AWESOME birthday, (like it has anything to do with her)!

      1. Mahousu

        Actually, the Ides of April, like most months, are on the 13th. March is odd in having them on the 15th.

        I feel like I should apologize for knowing that.

          1. Mahousu

            Yes, and why nine is really eight.

            Now I need to apologize to Jimi Hendrix. I know you thought it was six.

  2. memzilla

    Also the massacre of the middle class and the social contract, ongoing, but slower, also.

      1. horsedreamer_1

        Or maybe she could serve as an object lesson in an independent judiciary for her protege Eric Holder? Janet Reno would not have backed down to the House Rethugs with respect the Khalid Sheikh Muhammad trial in NYC.

        (Seriously, Janet's got bigger stones than EH.)

    1. OneDollarJuana

      Hey! Be nice. Reno might be a little mannish, but her mustache is nowhere near as prominent as Herr Schickelgruber's was.

  3. DaSandman

    I'll tell you what, it's enviornmental. It's the goddam April showers that come our way.

    Why is it that everything and everyone feels they can piss on us? No wonder we feel the need to straighten some shit out.

    1. SorosBot

      Tell me about; it's been raining nearly nonstop for the past three fucking weeks. Stop it, clouds.

  4. toomtabard

    I'm just waiting for the "fair and balanced" approach to this story: "Some analysts say April is too violent; others say it's not violent enough."

    1. GOPCrusher

      Well, you know Tim McVeigh was a Libtard terrorist. And the Branch Davidians were a hippie commune.

  5. Lionel[redacted]Esq

    Glenn Beck is trying to pull off a flash mob for 4/21. Does that count as a great American disaster?

  6. jus_wonderin

    Okay. I will venture a guess. What is it about mid-April violence? After Tax Day doldrums???

    Actually, its a lot like new car fever.

    1. BaldarTFlagass

      Well, I'm feverishly planning out my annual pilgrimage to Mexico, but I'm not cleaning the AK or placing a bulk order for fertilizer.

      1. jus_wonderin

        Ya know, back in the early seventies we used to be able to buy literal truckloads of that fertilizer. You could rent a special trailer/spreader that you pulled behind the tractor.

        And of course, I never realized the stuff was so dangerous.

  7. Dr_Zoidberg

    Ok, let's clear up something. I lived in Waco, TX when this nonsense was going on. It didn't happen in Waco! It happened outside of Waco! Not that I particularly care, as I never liked Waco anyway, but still!! Loud shouting and exclamation points!!!!!

    I still get asked if I could see 'the helicopters and the fire'. No. I don't have magic eyes that allow me to see over great distances.

    1. unclejeems

      Right, it was closer to West, Texas but still in McLennan County. Do you know what other town is in McLennan County. No, not Valley Mills. No, not McGregor. No, goddammit, not Tehuacana. Well, Ok, I'll tell ya. Crawford. And we know who "lived" in Crawford, don't we? Yeah, see the picture now? I thought so.

      Now is it any coincidence that Branch Davidian and Bush lived in the same county in Texas, just a few miles from each other? In different decades? No, I didn't think so, either, and neither do you. And the Branches were printing birth certificates in the basement, even while the feds were moving in, says a reliable source who is now dead.

      I have to go now. The Others are calling on the red phone. Back later.

      1. Dr_Zoidberg

        You made me laugh out loud. Now my employees are looking at me funny. They probably work for Bush/Koresh.

  8. Mumbletypeg

    Mid-April loose screws >> PTSD — Post-Tax-Stress-Disorder, Amurican style.
    That's just speaking for myself though. Not exactly homicidal-urgent — more like, muttering sad lost-basement lyrics of Paul Simon, "empty as a pocket with nothing to lose…"

    1. OneDollarJuana

      To test your theory you'd have to look back to see if the violent times used to occur in Mid-March, when the tax day was March 15.

  9. arihaya

    "Spring has come with all its gentle showers. Methinks it's time to bomb something to rubble."

    — Blackadder the Third

  10. Texan_Bulldog

    "Here are some American massacres that did not take place in April:"

    need to add:

    John McCain picked Sarah Palin as Veep candidate

  11. Trannysurprise

    CNN wondering why April is so violent is like Afghans wondering why the past 30 years are.

    1. SorosBot

      Hey that's the same as my brother; happy birthday that's the anniversary of a national tragedy to you, too! (BTW also have an uncle whose birthday is Nov. 22).

  12. BaldarTFlagass

    St Valentine's Day Massacre. It even has "massacre" in the name. And the Alice's Restaurant Massacree was in November around Thanksgiving, was it not?

  13. BZ1

    CNN states: "Waco happened to fall on the anniversary of the Battles of Lexington and Concord?" Wha.. what.. (giving my head a shake, something CNN reporters don't do too often)?

  14. Gopherit

    It's a simple matter of the snow melting, the flowers blooming, and freaks with blood-lust and guns emerging from their long winter of brooding. It's still too early for most hunting, but it's always a good time to kill people and blow shit up. That's why the neo-cons like Afghanistan so much.

    1. Iam_Who_Iam

      According to the interview it's a high holiday:

      "Nonetheless, in the mythology that has grown up around Waco and Oklahoma City among self-identified patriots, the 19th has become a sort of high holiday for those who think that they live under the thumb of a tyranny."

  15. fartknocker

    You know that 4-20 is national marijuana day. So that's something to celebrate in April…

  16. OkieDokieDog

    Too bad McVeigh got executed. He would probably be the bestest Tea Party candidate ever.

    btw – I live over 100 miles away from OKC and that blast rattled the pictures on my walls.
    I thought it was an earthquake.

  17. baconzgood

    August 6, 1945 is also my Dad's birthday (he wrecked me emotionaly like the A-bomb wrecked Hiroshima physically). The next year was Warhol's (who is the most over rated artist in history). I hate both of them, but it's easy to remember thier birthdays.

  18. prommie

    In Family Guy last night, mayor Adam West checked into a hotel with Peter's sister, and got his usual room, 420. Now, back in the day, when I was young and quaaludes stalked the land, it would have been room 714, so you could say 420 is the new 714. I suspect noone commits mass murder in mid-July because its just too hot and sticky to want to do all that work.

    1. GOPCrusher

      I can honestly state that I never contemplated a violent act after a couple of Rorer Stacks and a six pack of beer.

    2. GlowneyHouse

      I would love to believe that Rorer used the number 714 as a reference to Joe Friday's badge number on Dragnet.

  19. glamourdammerung

    Blaming Janet Reno for the start of the Waco mess is entirely appropriate since she was finally confirmed about halfway through it. While she clearly did not make the situation, Waco was the handiwork of Bush's former presidential debate coach (seriously) Stuart Gerson and noted screw up Louis Freeh (who also was responsible for Ruby Ridge). Though Clinton really messed up by not removing Freeh from any position in the government.

      1. glamourdammerung

        I accept that she was just following the advice of the people that had been dealing with the mess before she came in as she has said. But yeah, some folks should have lost jobs at a minimum once how badly they were screwing that mess up came to light.

    1. V572..whatever

      Louis Freeh is the FBI director who called a press conference to announce that his long-term chief of counterintelligence (Robert Hannsen) was a Soviet spy. You can't buy that kind of stoopid cheap. Oh, he also famously threw away whatever computers they put on his desk. But when 9/11 happened, the FBI had no way to send a picture of Mohammed Atta from one office to another except snail mail or carrier pigeon.

      What a guy…Realizing that his past will eventually catch up with him, he acquired Italian citizenship in Nov 09. Really!

      1. glamourdammerung

        Robert Hanssen. Proof that reality will generally be more stupid than any fiction.

        1. Ken Layne

          Yeah, he thought that stripper really liked him! And not just for all the money he gave her! This was different!

          /fucking fundamentalist Opus Dei catholics are the worst.

  20. slithytoves

    As far as I'm concerned April IS the suckiest month on account of it bringing snow storms, sleet, tornadoes, flooding, etc. April showers bring May flowers, my ass. April has a pretty name, but it's a bitch.

    1. kissawookiee

      Quite possibly, kicking his mom's uterus into starting contractions. Back labor is a bitch.

  21. SorosBot

    I'm just surprised that the teabaggers and Rush and Beck haven't started celebrating McVeigh as an American hero. Yet.

  22. SorosBot

    While your answer makes sense, Ken, this alternative theory from CNN commenter josh666 seems fairly persuasive:

    "April 19 happens to be the first day of the 13-day ritual relating to fire – the fire god, Baal, or Molech/Nimrod (the Sun God), also known as the Roman god, Saturn (Satan/Devil). This day is a major human sacrifice day, demanding fire sacrifice with an emphasis on children. This 13 day ritual ends April 30 – May 1 with the Beltaine Festival, also called "Walpurgis Night". "

    1. Guppy06

      I'm glad there are such Wiccans about to help the Scientologists and Mormons seem sane in comparison.

  23. DerrickWildcat

    Pearl Harbor: Didn't happen on April 19th, but some of the principle action shots from, the movie, "Pearl Harbor" were filmed on April 19…so that counts.

    1. SorosBot

      Where are all the jobs Boehner and the other Congressional Rethuglicans promised us?
      WHERE ARE THE JOBS?

        1. CapnFatback

          I have to ask: Does everyone you observe appear to take the form of marshmallow Peeps? When you step outside your door, does what you see resemble the scene at this web site? Do you wish to stick everyone in a microwave to watch them expand several times their normal size?

    2. Nothingisamiss

      oh, hahahahahahaha….I get it. You conslibertaritards are so damn funny! oh, my! hahahahahahaha!

  24. DerrickWildcat

    The reasonable scientific explanation for this is that bad shit happens everyday. But, for some reason, April 19th is the one day out of the year that Americans look up from the Teevee long enough to discover that there are things going on outside of their trailer parks and they seem to remember some of those things.
    True story.

  25. Toomush_Infer

    I always like how major media can't seem to find reasons for things like the Oklahoma bombing or why Osama bin Laden (remember him – still waiting for Allee Allee in Free) said he did 911 because Bush supported Israel's idea of final solution for the Palestinians… Reasons? We don' need no fugging reason!…okay, I'm going back to drinking this Michigan snowstorm away now…just EFM me when it's over…

  26. bflrtsplk

    Tate Lobianca murders November 1969, Jonestown Massacre November 1978. What is it about violence in November anyway. And let's not forget Son of Sam, who murdered indiscriminately regardless of the calendar at the behest of his neighbor's dog.

  27. marinmaven

    4/20 used to be a perfectly harmless day (except for that Hitler being born stuff) started by stoner high school students here in San Rafael. The rest of this crazy gun-loving, angry, stupid country went and bogarted this, our Holy Day. Please get off our cloud, y'all.

    This Angry April is nothing new. Abraham Lincoln was assassinated on April 14th, 1865. Martin Luther King, Jr. was shot on April 4th. Reagan bombed Libya in April. The Rodney King Riots happened in an April. A boat called, The Titanic killed a bunch of people and sank itself in April. The Spanish-American War also started in…you guessed it…April.

    April is also the month that our coins were minted with "In God We Trust" on them way back in 1864 after Americans slaughtered each other wildly in a Civil War over human slavery. By the way, the Civil War began and ended in an April.

  28. el_donaldo

    Ken, I think you're missing a chink or two of the outrage justification TV news was feeding us during that: it was child-brides, religious fanatics, AND lots of guns. Sure, it started with the "lots of guns" thing, but the rhetoric had to escalate along with the situation. We had no choice but to wipe them all out in a violent conflagration.

    1. DustBowlBlues

      That Koresh guy always planned on taking everyone with him if he went. A sniper should have taken him out weeks before April. Oh, and shot those fucking FreeMen, or whatever those weird fuckers in Montana called themselves. I got no use for terrorists, especially the domestic kind.

      1. SorosBot

        I'm just glad it wasn't like the MOVE incident in my area, which was a similar fuckup in dealing with a dangerous cult (but since the cultists were all black it didn't become a conservative cause celebre); the MOVE cultists were living in a rowhouse, and when the cops firebombed the place – surprise! – they ended up burning down the entire block. At least none of the non-cultists neighbors were killed, but they all lost their houses and were screwed over by the city's inept attempts to make it up to them.

    2. deanbooth

      The thing that sticks in my mind from the real-time event is the ATF guy climbing on the roof of the compound and bullets flying up through the shingles all around him. I think he was killed. For this reason, I've never thought of the event as a misuse of government — a major fuck-up, yes, but not an intentional overreach.

      [I'm too lazy to actually read about it now.]

    1. ConsLibertarian

      Some genius there.

      NBC, CBS, ABC, NPR, PBS, MS LSD, okay I fudged on that one a little.

      Hey, are you one of those that fell for the scrubbed satire about the Repubs passing legislation changing pi to 3 over at huff and puff? LOL

      Oh I forgot, you folks are not talking about Huff anymore. Have you signed up for reparations yet?

    2. Nothingisamiss

      Until Glen Beck gives me informed informative information I cannot be sure of this conspiracy.

  29. Geminisunmars

    And sometimes April 19 or 20 falls in or on or around Passover. Just saying. Oh – and that Easter week thingy too.

  30. __kth__

    breeding
    lilacs out of the dead land, mixing
    memory and desire
    actually mostly desire
    memory not so much

  31. WinterOuthouse

    I think it is the fault of our FLOTUS. She inspires people to do all they can do. Some people think that means guns and ammo baby, guns and ammo.

    FYI: I do not own a firearm because I startle very easily. Having a gun in your hand when you're kinda jumpy probably isn't a good idea. So I am unarmed. So go ahead Wonkette Criminals… rob me.

  32. Chet Kincaid

    "Stay with us this next hour of CNN for the surprising story of why so many traditional Indian musicians play the music of George Harrison…examining the unusual number of tributes to the fallen on Memorial Day…and how penal institutions inevitably attract thousands of criminals. We'll be right back."

    1. Doktor Zoom

      I am reminded of an old New Yorker cartoon where a medieval minstrel is skipping down the road with a lute, singing "Sumer is icumen in, lhude sing cuccu!" Over several panels, he sings the full poem, skipping past some peasant farmers in a field. As he departs, one peasant says to the other, "Now what in hell do you suppose was THAT all about?"

  33. mrblifil

    Columbine High School massacre, April 20th 1999. Whew! Good thing CNN didn't have to remind us of gun related violence by conveniently leaving that bit out…

    I wonder why September 11 didn't happen in April?

  34. SorosBot

    Huh? Can explain this post? What the fuck does "the messianic Obama" even mean?

    Republicans won the House because of two things: one, the economy, which was only improving slowly, mostly because the stimulus was too small after Obama, as usual, conceded too much to the wingnuts, who then didn't vote for it anyway. It did create jobs, but not enough.

    The GOP ran promising to create jobs, and lying about health reform and claiming it would destroy Medicare. Then they come into office, and actually try to pass a budget that would destroy jobs, and actually destroying Medicare, all to fund more massive tax cuts for the wealthy (yet they also claim they want to balance the budget).

    As often is the case, people were dumb and forgot that the Republicans are liars who hate the poor and the middle class; and as always the mainstream media did everything they can to ensure the GOP wins.

    1. ConsLibertarian

      You do not have google over dare in the dungeon?
      Now make sure you scrub your comment after I post a reply.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic

      Messianic Complex, a psychological state of mind
      Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is a personality disorder.
      Messianic democracy, democracy by force
      Messianic democracy is a neologism originally used by Jacob Talmon is his book The Origins of Totalitarian Democracy (1951) to describe the "democracy by force" doctrines of Jean-Jacques Rousseau and its philosophical descendants, as an effective tyranny that demotes democratic principle to rhetorical use only. Variants include totalitarian democracy and Jacobin democracy.

      As for your HILARIOUS economic component, you CANNOT print your way or Seize Assets your way out of a Depression. Do you even know the definition of a depression? 4 quarters of GDP decline.

      Now, if you actually believe in the Keynesian viewpoints skewered by the likes of Krugman, you are a bigger fool than I thought was still out there.

      Which countries are doing well? They are not ones deflating the value of their currencies, but hey, continue to believe your echo chamber and do NOT whatever you do, do any investigation yourself. You might want to look at the price of silver and gold right now. Also take a look at oil, food, and other indicators. But hey, if you really believe you can spend your way out of a depression, do NOT prepare at all. The economy is doing great! The numbers you get from the NLB, by the way that is where many of the economic numbers come from, are ALL REAL.

      By the way, I eat the poor and children. According to Pelosi I also starve 4 million of the elderly.

      Using demagoguery proves you have already lost the debate.

      If the Obamacare bill is SOOOOO great, why is Obama handing out waivers to his cronies? I forgot, law only applies to those not politically connected, gotcha.

      Jobs created by spending money borrowed, does NOT help one bit. You may want to get a real education and quit reading marx. You know, liberals read marx, conservatives understand him.

      1. SorosBot

        I know what the fuck a messianic complex is, doofus; what the hell does that have to do with Obama?

        And hey, Keynesian economics work; that's how Franklin Roosevelt, the indisputable best President of the 20th Century, ended the Great Depression. Governments spend more to make up for lackluster private spending. But hey, a religious fanatic like you would never let empirical evidence get in the way of your dogma.

        Sorry, but when you have name that advertises that you are part of a fanatical cult that believes in a long discredited economic hypothesis, we know anything you say can't be taken seriously. Now go back to bowing down before the all-powerful Free Market.

        1. ConsLibertarian

          WOW, brought out the vicious in the SOROSBOT..

          Tell me, what ECONOMIC system are you talking about? Constitutional Libertarianism is not an economic theory, it is a political governance theory.

          You seem to infer that it was. So far two of your blathering comments have large blatant errors that just make you look the fool. By the way, there is no such thing as a free market when the central control of the currency is fiat controlled by a pseudo government agency like the Fed.

          WOW, where did you learn that FDR was the best and that the the Great Deal removed us from the Great Depression? Have you EVER talked with anyone that lived through the 1st GD? Next time someone with a little age in them is talking to you, maybe actually listen. Did you get that in your revisionist history class? Just two points on that blather, one the government created a Constitutional Amendment to make sure NO president would EVER have more than two terms again. Yeah, he was so loved that they passed that. Two, if you REALLY believe that the 1st Great Depression was stopped due to Keynesian economics, you have no clue about economics or history.

          Just remember my liberal friend, you can have all the opinion you want, you cannot declare an opinion fact and make it true, no matter how many times your teachers told you that you could. 16-28 is my guess at your age. Even though the teacher telling you that just trying is good enough, it is not true.

          Attempting to equate the theory of Cons/Liber with a cult or religion is just another problem for the failed reasoning of typical progressives. Is that that how you describe yourself politically? What form of government is that? I mean you folks change names like chameleons, why is that?

          Why not be like O'Donnel and at least have the moral fortitude to call yourself what you are.

          Come out from behind the curtain, or are you afraid just like the progressive he called out on MS LSD. See, my beliefs in governance can be quantified and laid out, why is it that barely anyone with your beliefs never does.

          By the way, your socialist utopia is falling down in Cuba, they are implementing capitalist ideas. Must be REALLY a bummer to not have a socialist utopia to point at anymore, or EVER. LOL

          Now, if you are going to engage in debate, the best thing to do is make sure you do not have blatant mistakes in your comment.

          If you need anymore help, just reply and I will give you more instruction.

          Remember, no blatant mistakes.

          1. SorosBot

            Heh; you say I made blatant mistakes after you make you make outright lies here. First, when did I ever say I was a socialist? Oh, but then, you idiots think that government doing anything to help people, AKA it's job, is socialist.

            But then, you have the gall to lie about FDR. If my grandmother who did live through the Great Depression and told me all about what life was like then was still alive to read that, she'd kick your ass. Yeah, the New Deal ended the Great Depression; that's indisputable, proven fact. Here's a nice handy chart to show you: http://www.housingbubblebust.com/GDP/Depression.h

            And while you are insulting FDR, can you name one 20th Century President who was better? Hell, can you name one President besides Lincoln who was better? Actually better; don't lie and claim some disaster like Reagan was better.

            And yes, Libertarianism (or "Constitutional Libertarianism" – I guess that refers to the Objectivist dogma that lies about the Constitution to claim that their insane economic ideals are enshrined in the Constitution, and wants to go back to the bad old days of the Lochner era) is a cult, which worships the Free Market at wants to return to the paradigm that caused the Great Depression in the first place.

          2. trumpbly_joe

            Honestly, even if the New Deals didn't end the Great Depression, it's not as though America's wartime economy -which was basically a quasi-command economy where governments ran massive deficits that were spent expanding our industrial base- falls in any way outside of Keynsian rubric.

            The only actual difference would be that it would suggest something profoundly depressing about what it takes to generate adequate political will to actually spend our way out of a depression.

          3. ConsLibertarian

            "Oh, but then, you idiots think that government doing anything to help people, AKA it's job, is socialist."

            Can you point to the enumerated power in the Constitution that gives the federal government the right to steal from some and give to others?

            I will give you this-
            nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

            I know the Constitution is an antiquated document and Bush called it just a G-D piece of paper, but it is the LAW. May want to actually change the law before you just decide to apply it to your cronies helter skelter like. You like cronyism?

            You trying to prove your points by attack are not a good debate tactic. I guess I should call progressivism a cult also. I notice you did not address the political system you follow. Since I have to assume you are a socialist because you believe the government can do anything they like for the good of the collective, even if it means theft. But hey, as all the companies and businesses leave the US due to over encroachment of government on the private sector, you can blather on and on about the redistribution mantra. Maybe begin running businesses through the government maybe? I see GM is down a few points, must have been a great idea to bail them out huh?

            So tell me in your all encompassing wisdom on economics, what caused this Depression? Any clue besides the typical MSM talking points?

            Are we out of this Depression? Just wondering your theory on when all them thar jobs are going to return. By the way, just posting a GDP graph does not prove your point. According to that graph then, the Depression was over way before WWII got fired up.

            One question about your grandmother, I do not suppose she was of Japanese or German ancestry was she?

            Do try and pick up your game, it is beginning to bore me.

          4. trumpbly_joe

            1) Article 1 Section 8 include the powers of Congress to borrow money in the United States' name, to levy taxes, and coin and regulate the value of money. So, that covers deficit spending, monetary policy via the fed, and yes, taxation. The 16th Amendment clarifies that, yes, this includes income taxation. The 16th Amendment, like all Constitutional Amendments, is part of the Constitution, and thus any power thus included is *also* an enumerated power of Congress. See how easy it is, if you spend five minutes to read the document, instead of waving it around and invoking it like a holy book? I mean, it's almost as though this notion that taxation was theft is some sort of fantasy-land lunacy that bears no relation to the Constitution itself, and only cropped up in the past couple of decades, or something.

            2) In addition to being a moron, you're apparently also a bigot. Numerous Japanese-Americans fought heroically in World War II as part of the 110th Infantry Batallion and 442nd Regimental Combat Team. Why do you hate our troops?

          5. ConsLibertarian

            WOW, talk about COMPLETELY missing the point I was making.

            I bet that camp I saw in Fresno California was REALLY NOT THERE either?

            Oooops, you assumed and made an ASS out of yourself.

            German by the way and my family kicked ass back then by the way. Even though they were degraded left and right by others! Oh well, I see the flaming will continue and the attempts to misrepresent my points will be standard fare.

            Goodnight.

            As for addressing the 16th amendment. Tell me, when was that passed by the way? 1911 or so and how bout that Amendment to take away the right of CONGRESS to coin money?

            Oh wait, their was no amendment to remove that one. How did that happen?

          6. trumpbly_joe

            Yeah, you might want to get some sleep, because you seem to be sunsetting pretty hard here.

            I'll try and type slowly, so you get all this:

            You asked which enumerated powers allowed congress to "steal" from some and "give" to others. You are clearly referring to the notion that either taxation, borrowing, or inflation are confiscatory, which is plainly not a presumption lying within the document you claim to worship.

            We know this, because Congress was explicitly granted the power to tax, borrow, and determine the valuation of currency. In the latter case, they enacted several Acts to establish the Federal Reserve system, which conducts the minting and valuation of currency (i.e monetary policy) on behalf of Congress.

            Further, in the case of taxes, the 16th Amendment is widely considered to have been a clarification of the existing (if untested) Constitutionality of income taxation. However, none of that matters, because Amendments intentionally supersede the original document in either case, and thus any pretense that our present-day tax system is somehow unconstitutional is at least one of idiotic, dishonest, or insane.

          7. Doktor Zoom

            Wait a minute, you keep using logic and evidence instead of just shouting slogans. I don't think he's going to understand that.

            Jack-booted thugs! Taxation is theft! Nobama!

          8. Fukui_sanYesOta

            If I can pre-empt our new Libertarian pal, I believe he's talking about the "stealth tax" of inflation. It's a big deal to a certain brand of wingnut and gets into an argument about going back on to the gold standard etc & so on.

            I quite like this guy. I may not agree with him and he's a bellicose fucker, but at least he can form a sentence, unlike 90% of the other frothers.

          9. trumpbly_joe

            I kinda suspect as much myself, too, especially once he came out as a Real Business Cycle acolyte. Let's categorically reject the entirety of the field of economics to date, and just say that the economy "just happens", you know, like the weather. It reminds me of nothing so much as the occasional quack who claims to have "disproven" quantum mechanics.

            Incidentally, Ed Prescott is yet another douchebag my alma mater can take credit for. We have an awful lot of them, considering its reputation for being full of lefties, and having been founded by the dirty hippies of the Quaker community.

          10. SorosBot

            Oh, and now that I've read this while sober, it's even worse. You actually use the most stupid of Randroid talking points, calling taxes "stealing". No, moron, it's the exact opposite. Do you walk into a store, pick something up, try to walk out without paying, and then whine the security guard detains you that they're stealing what you tried to shoplift from them? Because that's what you want to do with taxes. Taxes are a fucking payment for services rendered, they are a duty, and calling them "stealing" is utterly ridiculous and stupid; but then so area all the dogmas of the Objectivist cult.

          11. trumpbly_joe

            I dunno, the "FDR was basically Stalin" bit was pretty classic, too.

            Incidentally, there's a sorta classic involving a fair bit of that whole famine thing- it ends up, Stalin appointed as agricultural director some party loyalist with zero scientific background, who rejected Darwinian evolution on political grounds and instituted agricultural policies based on pseudoscience that devastted their crop yeilds for multiple years.

            It's just an interesting parable, seeing as there is one party that has demonstrated a strong reflex to reject broad scientific consensus whenever it conflicts with party ideology.

          12. trumpbly_joe

            And yet, FDR was so popular that he was re-elected three times and died in office (which itself probably has something to do with the reason for said amendment, doncha think? Presidents who die in office tend to make for awkwardness.) Yeah, he really screwed the pooch with the Great Depression- that totally explains why he remained in office for another another eight years, instead of hastily being voted out at the end of his first term.

            But, I do have to congratulate you on at least being somewhat vague on the point of what ended the Great Depression, and limiting yourself to pounding the table over what it WASN'T. Too many of your ilk try to argue that Keynsian economics are wrong, because THE WAR ended the Great Depression. You know, as though America's wartime economy was marked by deregulation, and other laissez-faire policies, coupled with pronounced fiscal austerity. You just refuse to say anything, and merely be thought a fool.

            Also, nice spelling and grammar.

          13. ConsLibertarian

            Do you even know of some of the policies that FDR enacted? He went around seizing people's assets. He had some of the same policies that Stalin enacted. He let entire fields of grain wither and slaughtered millions of livestock in a futile attempt of maintaining prices. Prices that were inflated by the manipulation of prices. WOW, that sounds familiar, artificially inflated prices.

            You know another GREAT president that did that? Nixon. Are you going to tell me that Nixon was a great president now that he did the same thing?

            Bubbles are created by the manipulation of markets. These give you your peaks, when markets correct this gives you your valleys. This is NATURAL and will always occur. When they are manipulated, they create harmonics in the system. Just like the forced loans the Democrats championed in the housing markets since Carter. Instead of addressing the issue, they kept feeding the harmonic of the bubble. Reaching higher and higher and higher, than it all came crashing down to REALITY.

            You only perpetuate the problems by attempting to force a fix. It is the false application of capital for things that are failing. Ala, GM. The GM business model was failing, you do not fix it by pumping liquidity into a FAILING business. Derr, this is the same thing that was done in the…………..housing market. TADA!

            As for what got us out of the Depression. It was inevitable to return to normalcy, but the more that the manipulation was done, the longer and longer it took to get out. Yes the war helped since it forced us to modernize and create the largest manufacturing empire ever created. WOW, all we need is a huge war! That might do it! Pffft.

            There were a million factors involved in the 1st and their are a million involved in this one, but they both were caused by the misallocation of resources due to government interference.

          14. Doktor Zoom

            I'm pretty sure that WW II was all about the Free Market. All the people who joined the military made individual choices about which rifles,ships, bombers, and tanks* they thought would best meet their needs, and then they sold shares in their units or pooled their investments to finance the purchase of the armaments they wanted.

            *OK, from what I've read, if things had really gone that way, the biggest seller to the US Army would have been Germany's Krupps, which would have sold a bejillion 88-mm cannons to Our Boys.

          15. ShaveTheWhales

            I'm going to violate my own rule about not responding to trolls, just to answer your question "Have you EVER talked with anyone that lived through the 1st GD?"

            The answer is "yes". Both my parents, many of their friends, and all my uncles and aunts not only lived through the Depression, but were adults at the time. A few of the more senior NCOs I knew in the Air Force also lived through it, although they were then teenagers.

            And, you know what? Damn near all of them were absolutely convinced that the New Deal saved their livelihoods and the country. Even the ones who were more socially conservative, and didn't really like Democrats in general (they made a grudging exception for FDR).

            There is a reason why the Democratic Party held such a commanding legislative lead for 40 years after the end of World War II — lots of those people were still alive, and they had personal knowledge of what had worked.

            How many people who lived through the Depression as adults have YOU ever talked to? I'm guessing zero. You're basing your whole belief system on the revisionist economic bullshit put out by other people who also have never talked to any Depression-era folks.

            BTW, I'm 63. And you're an empty shell.

          16. ConsLibertarian

            Well, you have a few years on me, not many. As for an empty shell, I am working on filling it with knowledge. Sorry, but the relatives I have are quite split on the issue. Parents and etc.

            I suppose it all matters what areas of the country they were I guess.

            Well, for the economics components, I went to college and got all the typical courses like macro, micro, blah, blah, blah. A lot of questions I asked the professors they just danced around the issues that I saw in the economic "theories". By the way, you will find more disagreement in economics than almost any of the "soft" sciences. Economics is not an exact science and NO centrally controlled economy has ever survived the destruction of their currency.

            One thing about the last GD is a fact. People were better prepared to survive on their own. The downturn seen in 2008 is nothing compared to what is going to happen WHEN the Democrats and the Republicans completely destroy our currency.

            But hey, just ringing the bell, I have prepared accordingly, have you?

          17. SorosBot

            My dad's parent, unlike my mom's parents, are both still alive, though very old; they both remember the Great Depression, and both came from well-to-do families that didn't suffer as much as most, but both of them still would want to personally kick the ass of any punk who tried to insult Roosevelt. And both of them, despite their advanced age (93/92), probably could.

  35. GunToting[Redacted]

    Shhhh… Don't spook the troll. We don't want it to run away!

    lol (this lol is provided ironically).

  36. Lazy Media

    Funny, except for the incontrovertible fact that David Koresh and his mighty men murdered all those people. The ATF completely bungled the investigation of the Branch Davidians, and Janet Reno freaked out and overreacted because she had a thing about child diddling, but Koresh and his inner circle shot or burned every fucking person who died in that compound during the final assault.

  37. CapnFatback

    Well, truth to tell, I'm not ALL Delusional. I'm also 3/64th Cherokee and 1/64th marshmallow Peep. Of course, according to your prized "One Dollop Doctrine," that makes me all Peep, doesn't it? Looks like it's off to the microwave with me!

    Millions of heads explode on Nov 3rd as a Red wave was seen receding.

    Let me guess: you're a ginger. Let's not get dramatic, however. Women really dig bald dudes these days.

    1. glamourdammerung

      Not sure why you are making fun of the clown's remark about the "Red wave" receding as it was the only part of that screed that was factually accurate. Polling tends to confirm that it was indeed the high water mark of the failed teabagger movement.

    2. azaimee

      I'm so sorry for eating your people! Your delicious, delicious people…The Peeps, that is. The Cherokees, not so much.

    1. ConsLibertarian

      Way to go PEEPS, one funny and original reply the rest not so much. Thanks for playing a little. Now you just take your ball and go home. How lybical! (liberal typical)

      Yeah, I guess you are all correct (cannot say right, you would get confused and think I was calling you an extremist ala Chucky), I seem to have lost a few IQ points here, must be the redistribution mandate.

      By the way, Micky Dees was hiring today and the AP is spouting that as good economic news. How absolutely delusional! badabing
      Also, the news about the "Tough" question that the Dallas reporter asked, ooops, the armor of transparency slipped for a second and the true beliefs oozed out.
      I foretell a wave of epic proportions come 2012 and I am not talking about the mythical oceans rising ala Gore.

      1. Doktor Zoom

        "How lybical! (liberal typical)"

        I could be wrong, but it seems to me that one of the defining features of a ConservaTroll is their tendency to first coin a really stupid portmanteau term, and then to belabor the point by explaining it.

  38. DustBowlBlues

    I said kind of the same thing somewhere in a response to a comment above. That should be an example of Messianic that even the troll can understand. Don't you picture those pimply faced losers, reading obscure references on Wikipedia and using their big words to impress the wingers? That crowd hasn't changed since I was in high school, lo these many years ago.

  39. DustBowlBlues

    Not to go all smarty pants on okiedokie, but I was at St. Anthony's Hospital in OKC to visit my dying father (it was a great fucking year for us) 45 minutes after the blast. We were about 13 miles away when it happened and the windows in my stepmother's house rattled. Needless to say, I'll never forget the chaos is the hospital and the line of emergency vehicles lining the street and the dazed, bleeding people being led around by their not-in-the-bombing person.

    Maybe the April date has something to do with eastern Oklahoma's Elohim City, McVeigh's devotion to their beloved bank robber, Richard Snell, who was executed hours after the bombing, and not just Waco. I didn't give much credence to it until Wade Goodwin on NPR did a long report and I realized, fuck, the FBI hid the fact they should have seen this one coming. The CNN reporter would no doubt be stunned by the number of tornadoes that happen in Oklahoma in April, as well.

    My AA birthday is April 26, 1976, so I have some nice thoughts this time of the year.

    BTW–The people at the Murrah Building or their survivors got nada except for whatever insurance or disability retirement they could get. They were purposely targeted because they were doing their jobs as employees of the federal government. There were no million dollar settlements nor do I remember the term heroes being tossed out as constantly as in NYC.

    Moral: If you're going to be blown up, hope the bomber is a foreigner. And swarthy.

    1. Geminisunmars

      Happy 25th AA Birthday. I trust you have a certificate to prove it.

      I didn't realize the survivors got so much nada. Thanks for the info.

    2. stanpan

      I was at home, about five miles north of the Murrah Building, when the bomb exploded. Your comments are absolutely correct.

  40. DustBowlBlues

    I just want all of you to remember: I have the copyright on the Timothy McVeigh commemorative tee-shirts. I'll be selling them at the next OKC Teabagger event and clean up. A man before his time.

    1. Fukui_sanYesOta

      May I suggest a design?

      "Three Bagger Moon"

      Tim McVeigh, James O'Keefe (in pimp costume, natch), and Ronald Reagan staring at an airbrushed moon in a black field, like that wolf shirt.

      Stick a crying eagle in there somewhere and you'll be printing money.

  41. KenLayIsAlive

    Well, of course the ubiquitous question mark allows our legitimate news organizations to get away with so much nonsense.

    "Obama not a Muslim?"

    "Iraq WMDs?"

    One of my all time pet peeves. You're the fucking news you morons. I'm the one with the questions, not you. If wanted to wonder about what is going on in the world, I can just lay in bed and be befuddled without any help from you. If you have to put a question mark on the end of your headline, I think you probably didn't spend enough time investigating your freakin' story.

    sheesh.

    /rant

  42. Negropolis

    …and Bush did 9/11. Really, give me a fucking break with this retro-Truther bullshit. If I could give a downfist to an entire post, it'd be poking out your ass I'd downfist so hard.

    If I wanted properly tinfoiled conspiracy theory bullshit, I'd go drown myself in Firedoglake, okay?

      1. Negropolis

        Way to reveal yourself as a fucking moron if you already hadn't.

        This place is going downhill pretty quickly.

  43. ttommyunger

    Sorry, Pilgrims, I'm with CNN on this one. My first bad April 19th came in 1965 (See KCStar, front page, pix and all) then the Waco thing and OK City. I have it marked in my cellphone and computer calendar "Look out for crazy shit", no shit.

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