How would you like to pay $50 per year to drive your car around? Instead of, say, a thousand dollars a year for gasoline (soon to be $2,000 a year)? The Austin City Council is considering a fifty-buck annual subscription to electric-car charging stations all over town. That’s four dollars a month!
The Austin Business Journal reports:
Austin City Council members this week will consider charging Austin electric car drivers $50 a year to boot up their batteries from any Austin Energy plug-in.
The proposed rate would apply to Austin Energy’s “Plug-in Everywhere” program — a network of public charging stations for electric vehicles. The city would offer a $25 six-month subscription for unlimited service, including sales tax. Without the subscription, it would cost about $2 per hour of charging.
Austin Energy is installing more than 100 public charging stations throughout the city by the end of this summer. The Coulomb Technologies Inc. stations are being paid for in part through federal stimulus grants. Each pump costs about $700 to install.
[Austin Business Journal via Cryptogon]
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I don't know what Austin's grid is powered by, but in much of the country $4/month unlimited car charge-ups just means you're getting a really huge subsidy to burn a ton of coal.
It's probably powered by discarded Schlitz cans and SXSW-goer's ironic facial hair.
Or the frantic energy of bands desperate to move out of their moms' basements before they're 25.
That's not *exactly* what's happening, and that's not at all what's happening in the most populous regions of the country (where most drivers are driving):
"In terms of climate change emissions, electric cars are generally much cleaner than conventional gas vehicles. In areas of the country that have the cleanest power generation (more wind, solar and hydropower), electric cars emit far less greenhouse gases, not only compared with conventional vehicles, but also compared with efficient hybrid-electric vehicles. In areas of the country with the dirtiest power generation (coal), an efficient hybrid may be your best environmental bet, though if you’re gentle on the pedal, an electric car may yield comparable results. On a national average basis, an efficient electric car emits about half the amount of carbon dioxide as a conventional car, and roughly the same amount as an efficient hybrid."
http://www.motherearthnews.com/green-transportati...
In the state with the most people and the most cars, for example, driving an electric car is *dramatically* cleaner than a gasoline engine or a hybrid. That's because California has the cleanest energy in the nation.
http://www.motherearthnews.com/multimedia/image-g...
Driving an EV in Texas will produce an average of 5,622 pounds of C02 per year, while driving a gasoline-powered car will produce more than double that per year, or 11,740 pounds of C02. Arguments against EVs are, ultimately, arguments in favor of Middle East oil imports. (And it is uncanny how the "clean coal" proponents are always against EVs, too.)
Thank you for writing what I would have written if I had the energy and could write.
Yes, but dramatically under-charging for the energy needed to operate a car will likely lead to increases in miles driven, which narrows the gap between the emissions from gasoline and electricity. Upping the gas tax is a better way to go . . . but good luck getting political support for that.
No, people don't drive that much more just because it's significantly cheaper. There are only so many places they want to go.
To say otherwise would be like asserting that it's a great economic stimulus to give tax cuts to wealthy, because that way they'll spend so much more. But in real life, there are only so many things they want to buy.
The fact that electric cars are environmentally viable even when you consider powering them with the dirtiest source of electricity available (old coal plants) puts to rest the canard that they're "no better for the environment" than a Hummer.
Austin's temporary experiment (and that's what it is) is just a carrot offered to get more electric cars on the street to replace gas guzzlers. Once they've been embraced by the car-buying public, electric cars will stand on their own just fine. Remember ten years ago, almost nobody was seriously interested in buying a hybrid. Nowadays, the Prius is just another compact sedan that's a little quieter and more efficient than most. Common as dirt.
Your first paragraph is true in places where people already drive everywhere. It's less true in places where people have a choice of how they get around.
And I definitely don't think EVs are no better than gas-powered vehicles. They are much better. And better energy pricing that takes pollution costs into account will give EVs an advantage over gasoline.
25% more according to a San Francisco based study. That, and their drivers receive 50% more driving infractions per mile, and are 17% more likely to be involved in a collision.
All in all, sound's like Austin's in for some FUN!
There's a pretty robust body of evidence that shows that fluctuations in gas prices tend to have a dramatic impact on miles driven. Here's a random article from 2005 that makes the point. Because I have cited a six year old USA Today article, aka controlling authority, I expect all discussion on this point to cease immediately:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-12-08-ga...
Or to put it another way, an electric car in coal-fired-electrical country is a fossil fuel vehicle with a very long tailpipe.
No, it's what you call a "push." Not significantly better or worse than gas/electric hybrid. Still better than an SUV. (Your results may vary.)
You’re correct, of course. Just wanted to go for the wisecrack. I’d buy a Nissan Leaf in the morning if I had a place to plug it in and if they were available.
There aren’t too many things I enjoy more than bad mouthing Texas and their inhabitants but, Texas, by far, is the leading producer of wind energy in the USA.
One would hope so simply given its size and population.
"Arguments against EVs are, ultimately, arguments in favor of Middle East oil imports."
There's big a difference between simply being against EVs and being against heavily subsidizing the use of the energy needed to allow for the unlimited, nearly free driving of cars, whether gas or electric. It's really arguments for the status quo in energy and transportation policy that are arguments in favor of Middle East oil imports.
And now I will stop using the Wonkette comments section for extended policy discussion.
But this is America's policy discussion headquarters!
Yah, poopyhead!
Like we don't subsidize Big Oil? hahahhahahhahahaa
As I said, "whether gas or electric." By gas, I mean gasoline, or Big Oil. So, obviously we do. As I said.
I am going to use a solar panel to charge my car. When APS lets me hook up to the grid, fuckers.
What if the future was awesome? That's a good one.
Wait a minute, I thought the electric car had been killed. Are these charging stations for zombie electrics?
If it's Austin, why don't they just invent a car that runs on 'quirk'?
I was going to say 'wierd'.
Because the 'weird' reserves are almost depleted! The "Keep Austin Weird" campaign, aimed at preserving this valuable resource, was a failure.
When did they hit "peak wierd"? Was it the release of Electric Larryland?
I regret that I have but one upvote to give…
Chick from Little Rock visiting me in San Antonio saw one of those shirts. Her comment was "Who is this Austin fellow?"
Keep Austin "Wired"?
Sponsored by Big Espresso
Howard Schultz has to find something to fill his time, now that he's done killing professional basketball in the Emerald City.
Or "Dumb"?
I suppose Ed Begley, Jr., must still be getting some pretty sweet St. Elsewhere residuals if he can subsidize a whole city's electro-auto grid.
Came looking for an Ed Begley, Jr. comment, did not leave disappointed.
Floating this idea in Oil Country? Somebody's tired and wants a dirt nap, Texas-Style.
Rick Perry's
callingwaking up those elements of the Texas National Guard not currently deployed to Iraqistan to lead a counterattack.Except this is happening in the state capital, right under Perry's nose!
Of course, I Rick can reap any benefit from the publicity, he'll show up with his good hair and claim all the credit.
As soon as he gets his hair “Just Right”.
I hope those chargey things are going to be easier to find than a parking spot is during SXSW.
Not a chance. They won't exist north of campus or south of the river.
While here in CA, thanks to an energy model that is designed in theory to encourage reducing our energy consumption, oil needs to top at least $200/barrel before operating electric cars begins to be cheaper operating gasoline-powered cars. Then again, I'm sure we'll be at $200+/barrel soon enough.
If not, I'm sure that Cheney would be willing to re-convene his Energy Task Force, since that worked out so well for us last time.
I've read a bit about this subject over on Jalopnik, but the story there seems to be more like you have to charge your electric vehicle at exactly the wrong time, and drive it in the way most unsuited to electric cars (fast, uphill) to make them as expensive as an SUV on gas.
And you have to have your Xmas lights on, too. (pertinent details mostly in the comments)
I drive uphill both ways, with my parking brake on.
Well, there's your problem! (Hint: running with 4 flat tires also decreases your mileage)
I'll have to quit pissing off the ex if I ever want to not have 4 flats. It's much simpler riding on the rims.
Not if you have a thin film solar panel on your house.
I miss Austin, the biggest little blue dot in Texas.
San Antonio always goes blue too, but because of Mexicans, not granolas.
Except for Alamo Heights and stuff. Their current rep is a Christian Scientist that let his wife die.
Me too, I loved it there..and I shared that love quite freely.Ask anyone
I pretty much stayed drunk down there, and hidden away in a Motel 6 off of I-35, when I wasn't being a combat engineer person at Fort Hood.
No snark. I think that's cool. Austin is a visionary city.
The City of Austin recently announced it was thinking of removing parking spaces in the city's core business district (which includes a campus of the local community college) to 'encourage' people to use the bus system more. The City is also cutting 1,013 teacher positions in the school district in the face of a $113 million shortfall in the school district budget and will likely close several elementary campuses.
While the nouveau bohemes & nouveau riche got theirs, so fuck all the rest of 'em.
The hippies will just home-school their brats.
All the proposed closings are for 'inner city' schools that educate the brownz so there's that appeal as well.
I guess they don't realize that those children will have to go to their own childrens' schools somewhere else in the district…
You know, it's not like children disappear when you close a school. lol
I'm sorry but this would clearly be unconstitutional, because the right to buy a car includes the right to park it for free anywhere. Just ask any exurbanite driving around the city in a Hummer, if they can see you waving your arms down there on the ground from up where they sit.
The City of Austin doesn't run the Austin Independent School District. They're distinct legal entities with distinct funding. FYI
Completely correct. And both have large deficits.
"The Coulomb Technologies Inc. stations are being paid for in part through federal stimulus grants."
How long until Perry puts this baby Coyote to sleep?
This is Austin TEXAS, right? There's something in that lake. Something good that I wish they could get the rest of the State to drink.
It's because the rest of the libs from across the state flee here to get away.
I'm from here though so I'm an OG.
Suckers — people are gonna charge that baby up every day in Austin and use all the electricity to cool their big McMansions in Round Rock!
Not until they come out with electric Hummers, Expeditions, Yukons, and BMW 7 series.
Oh, great — Rick Perry's now frantically trying to replace all state vehicles with ones that run on whale oil just to make up for this giant snub at America's freedom-loving oil companies. Hope you're happy, Austin.
"The Coulomb Technologies Inc. stations are being paid for in part through federal stimulus grants. Each pump costs about $700 to install."
SOCHULIZM!!!!
Joe Barton issues an immediate apology to BP, Exxon-Mobil, etc
That's Chairman Joe Barton to you, hippy.
I’m a big fan of electric vehicles and I’ve had some experience with the design of vehicle chargers. The weak spot with EVs is the battery. They’re still too expensive and the energy density doesn’t come close to gasoline. It looks like capacitors will be the where the future lies as a power source for EVs. Capacitors can be charged in minutes (if you have the current) and should last, with little degradation, for a long time. EESTOR is one company that claims to have capacitors that are energy dense enough to power vehicles but they have yet to produce anything and are very secretive. Many universities and start ups are out there working on it so hopefully someone will make a break through soon.
My apologies for being so serious.
No no, it's interesting stuff!
The battery/energy density weak spot is only a weak spot when compared to cheap gasoline-powered energy that we've had a relatively short reliance upon. (About as long as whale oil for lamps.) A generation that grows up with EVs having a hundred-mile range will grow up assuming a car has a hundred-mile range.
As already mentioned, it took less than a decade for the Prius to go from weird/revolutionary expensive-battery "but is it a real car" to just another economy car from Toyota.
And the energy/density problem is considered a problem only if you're going to use the car for long trips. If you've got a commute of say, 20 miles (or less) each way, and you don't plan on doing long trips, then all the new (and soon to be released) electric cars have way more capacity than they need.
Nobody said any electric vehicle availble now is going to be a good replacement for hauling your whole family, gear and boat trailer 150 miles out to Vacation Lake for the weekend, but commuting is another story, and electrics have that one licked easy.
That's just this generation; batteries are getting better and fast.
I'm betting on hydrogen powered vehicles with the hydrogen created from water via solar and wind power. Although like any disruptive change it would have it's own problems.
Distribution network will be big problem.
I don't know – I think it could probably piggy-back off of existing gas stations. But I'm not an expert, just a dreamer.
We should have hydrogen POWER plants that send electricity out on the grid to charge electric cars.
And if you were here in town you could see Willie Nelson tonight at the new, state-of-the-art Austin City Limits live theatre. High is forecast to be 76 today, highs in the low 70s this week.
What has 40 eyes and 18 teeth?
I could also maybe see Black Joe Lewis and the Honey Bears if I was to amble on by. I'm thinking about it. What's the nicest hotel in town?
So this is going to be a bit of a babblefest, but:
I'm from Seattle, about as diametrically opposite to Texas as possible. Always, though, one hears, "But Austin is the LIBERAL part of Texas! It's cool!" Never having been there, I had no opinion on this statement, really.
Then I went to Austin, for the wedding of a friend. First thing upon arriving, I see a giant parade down a main street for Confederate something-something, and there's Confederate flags, and uniforms, and all manner of wackiness. And I said, "Austin, liberal, MY ASS! Fuck Texas and the horse it rode in on, and Austin too."
This news, however, is pretty fucking cool. Yeah, yeah, coal-generated electricity. Still, it's a genuine baby step in a good direction. +Socialism. How could that be bad?
Austin seems to have a kind of unique form of liberalism. I wouldn't call it neo-liberalism, at all, but it's definitely post-liberal liberalism. Whatever it is, it does seem to often be overdone. They have much to be proud of, but I sometimes wonder what "liberal" even means, anymore. Being from Michigan, our liberalism along with all of the "cool" social stuff (gay-friendly, alternative energy…) also includes an equally strong focus on the dignity and human rights of the American worker, and sometimes, I wonder where that's all gone in these new "liberal" hotspots in the sunbelt.
It's also the capital so we have to let all these fucks parade to the Capitol…but yeah you can stay up in rainy, dreary Seattle that doesn't even make good music anymore.
We don't need any more people thinking this place is cool.
That's just what Seattlites said in the early 90s.
For the record, I love dreary Seattle in its dreariness. And it poured rain, in Austin, in July, on my friend's wedding day. Ironic, don't you think?
I do understand the "it's the capital so sometimes the loonies descend", though.
Not to be outdone, House Republicans are working on an alternative vehicle, for Tea Party member use only, that runs on bile. The savings should be huge.
Way better than Arizona. They propose to TAX the mileage of electric cars at 1 cent a mile. And no, they have no plans to put in any charging stations.
Yea, they are all Repubs or neo Nazis in office. Way to keep the big bad government off our backs.
Half hour, that's what it takes to charge a Nissan Leaf. Every hundred miles, even a hippie needs to stop to get a chai.
If they can create a piss-powered car, there'd be no need to stop for that chai. That's my ultimate dream car.
LOL, you are lazy, Mr Media. Google LiON batteries and see just how they compare to what was available in 1915. And LiON is just the best that's available right now. What will the boffins be dreaming up in 5 years or so?
Yes, the high price of driving tends to discourage excess (wasteful) driving, but what those studies don't show you is there is a peak number of miles that any given person will drive even if the cost is zero.
Just like there is a peak amount a rich person will spend even as his taxes approach zero.
You can plug 'em in any standard 110/220 outlet! That's for an overnight charge. The super-chargey thing costs extra, although in California the price was covered with a state rebate last year.
Got the CA thing covered, but live in a socialist collective (condo) with no power in the garage and no likelihood of getting it. This provides the moral credit of being willing to do the right thing without actually having to do the right thing. So it’s a win-win!
Ditto, ditto. I'm actually President of my condo board (yay me), and we had a new resident move in, and he was asking me, "So, how can I go about gettin' an outlet in my garage space iff'n I want to get an electric car?"
And I had to say, "Ha ha, I sympathize with you, hippie [I do, actually - I'm a big ol'hippie], but that ain't gonna happen. Even if you paid the association to have an outlet installed in your spot, it wouldn't have a separate meter, so the whole association would be bearing the cost of electricity only you got to use. SOCIALISM!"
Well, Madam Preznident, ‘lectric meters can’t be all that expensive—every unit in a condo already has one, after all—but you can’t really find out what they cost because Big Electricity doesn’t want you to know! The installation would be very expensive on a retrofit basis, but would’ve been trivial if anyone had known they’d be needed one day. You’d just route the power to the parking space before it goes up to the unit, and maybe have the meter down in the garage next to the Leaf plug.Okay not all that funny, sorry.
I had a new meter put in in New York City and a new upgraded fuse box about 8 years ago and it cost me $1100 dollars. Make a few calls. Nissan will put in a 220 for you as a perk. If you don't have an outlet in the garage how the hell can the band practice, Dad?
Ha ha, I'm going to reply with another "not all that funny, but true":
Yeah, woulda been nice to have those details thought of beforehand. The building I live in was only finished in 2006, so "electric flying cars" weren't SO out there at that point, especially in ol'Seattle. New resident hippie even said, "Outlets in condo garages are now code standard in BC." To which I said, "B.C. like Canada, hippie? Who cares! SOCIALISM!" And I also said, "I feel ya, man, but this building was permitted in 2004, in the U.S. of A., and they were not dreaming of the future. Sorry."
Also also, all the electric meters for units are together in a room in the garage. Parking spaces for units are assigned totally and wantonly at random, so you couldn't run the line to someone's spot, then to their unit, because there's no correlation. There's probably some kind of meter that could be installed for a single outlet, but some process would have to be made for reading it monthly, calculating the exact cost of that electricity, and charging it back to the guy's unit. Yeah, good luck with that.
Sigh. Being Board President is fun. Let me just tell you.
Here in San Diego, at the other corner of the West Coast, most new condos have "deeded" parking spaces. 110-volt outlets, the type probably specified in BC, would not provide very efficient re-charging; you need 220-volt, like a dryer or an electric range uses.
But all this is eminently do-able! The internal-combustion engine bigots on various auto/gearhead websites I frequent are constantly pooh-poohing every real or perceived drawback of electric vehicles, and would view a change in parking spaces or a $300 assessment to wire up as an intolerable infringement on their constitutional freedoms. They decry "subsidies" to EVs and never recognize that ICEs and the oil business and the highway lobby have all enjoyed the most lavish subsidies since the railroads in the 19th Century.
Late reply, but I lost my Internets to a windstorm for a while.
Just wanted to be clear that I am 100% in favor of electric cars and it is all do-able! If the federal government wanted to wave its magic stimulus wand over our little condo building and give us, I dunno, $100k to completely trick out the garage for everyone, my heart would burst with joy.
Also, re: pkg spaces, our spaces are also deeded. I just meant that condo unit A might have a space on the second floor of the garage, NW corner, and another space on the third floor along the south wall, etc. It sounded like you were saying "run the electric line from the main trunk past the parking space, where the meter will reside, and then up to the unit", when in fact the unit might be as far away from the associated parking space as possible.
Anyway, to the future and BEYOND! Flying cars for all! I was promised a jet pack, also too.
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