Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot In Arizona (UPDATED)

  america the beautiful

So, simply trying to have a conversation with your constituents these days gets you shot? With citizens like that, who should even want to try to save this country?Jesus, what is it with this country? “U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona was shot outside a grocery store in Tucson while holding a public event, Arizona Public Media reported Saturday.” According to reports, she’s been transported to University Medical Center in Tucson, but her condition isn’t known. UPDATE: NPR says she and six others have died. UPDATE 2: Gunman is said to be uninjured and “called out names of people” as he aimed at targets. UPDATE 3: A sheriff of some sort on MSNBC is now saying she is STILL ALIVE. UPDATE 4: On MSNBC, a hospital official says Giffords is alive and currently in surgery. UPDATE 5: Among those killed, according to MSNBC: a federal judge. UPDATE 6: As we await the hospital news conference at 3:30 ET, a report from inside says Giffords was talking on her war into surgery, according to MSNBC. UPDATE 7: State senator on Fox News said Giffords was shot in the temple and the bullet went through her brain and exited her head and that she has made it through surgery and is responsive. UPDATE 8: Arizona district court judge John Roll is the federal judge who was killed, according to Fox News. He was appointed by George H.W. Bush. He and his family received death threats in 2009 for allowing a lawsuit by illegal immigrants. UPDATE 9: Also according to Fox: the shooter was a 22-year-old white male. UPDATE 10: AP says shooter is named Jared Laughner. He’s in custody. UPDATE 11: Status on Giffords is critical condition, according to doctor at the press conference. He expects her to survive. She was shot one time. One dead at his hospital: a nine-year-old child. She’s the victim of a semi-automatic weapon. This sort of thing is apparently something that often happens in Arizona, because Giffords’ staff reported feeling unsafe at town halls in 2009 when an attendee dropped a gun at one of her events. Sure, we joke about Arizona and other states being insane and violent, but here you go: Fine, Arizona. You win. Now stop. Jesus Christ. Keep refreshing this post and we’ll keep you updated.

From that article in 2009:

One of the callers to the Service Employees International Union said, “I suggest you tell your people to calm down, act like American citizens, and stop trying to repress people’s First Amendment rights… That, or you all are gonna come up against the Second Amendment.”

Sometimes these idiots are so dumb and hateful they follow through on their own chickenshit threats.

Meanwhile, this is a tab your editor already had open:

For all of that and more, Mr. Acosta’s class and others in the Tucson Unified School District’s Mexican-American program have been declared illegal by the State of Arizona — even while similar programs for black, Asian and American Indian students have been left untouched.

Goodbye, Arizona. Get the fuck out of the Union.

UPDATE:

Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and six others died after a gunman opened fire at a public event on Saturday, the Pima County, Ariz., sheriff’s office confirms. The 40-year-old Democrat was outside a Tucson grocery store when a gunman ran up and began firing indiscriminately. The suspect was taken into police custody.

U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona was shot in the head and killed outside a grocery store in Tucson while holding a public event, Arizona Public Media reported Saturday.

Politics at its most horrifying:

This is what Google News looked like a few minutes ago: Congresswoman hopes people of differing views can work together. Congresswoman shot dead. Jesus Christ, this country.

She is 40.

Here is what is being passed around Twitter:

Gabrielle Giffords is newly married. She is a step-parent. She has served in Congress since January of 2007 and has been a public servant for the people of Arizona for much of a decade.

If you don’t want to close your laptop and go off to cry for the rest of the day, please don’t read this next line: “She has a D+ rating from the NRA and a D- from the GOA.”

UPDATE: Though Fox and CNN confirmed she died, according to MSNBC, police say she is still alive. But she was shot “in the head.”

UPDATE: On MSNBC, a hospital official says Giffords is alive and currently in surgery.

What is permeating all of this, of course:

In April, Giffords supported Rep. Raul Grijalva (D-Ariz.) after he had to close two offices, including one in Tucson, after he and his staff received threats following his call for a boycott of Arizona businesses in opposition to the state’s controversial immigration law.

At least inciting her population to rise up against Hispanics and those who would support them got Jan Brewer re-elected, right? That was totally worth it. HAR HAR HAR.

Here is a video we found on YouTube put together by some Teabaggers. Giffords is shown making comments about a “riot,” but the videographer takes footage of Teabagger protestors outside her office to show the world how peaceful they are. Right.

2010 campaign video:

From the Tucson Tea Party. They “wanted to talk to her”:

The hospital has scheduled a news conference for 3:30 pm ET.

And the video to top them all: Giffords responding to that SarahPAC thing with crosshairs over her district: “Sarah Palin has the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district and when people do that, they’ve gotta realize there are consequences to that action”:

UPDATE: As everyone awaits the news conference, a report from the hospital says Giffords was talking on her way into surgery, according to MSNBC. And also Obama has released a statement: He also thinks this was awful!

You really should stop reading this post, because the irony we keep bringing you is disgusting. Here’s a listing for an event with her 2010 midterm opponent:

UPDATE: State senator on Fox News said Giffords was shot in the temple and the bullet exited her head and that she has made it through surgery and is responsive.

The website associated with that SarahPAC graphic has been pulled. Whoops!

UPDATE: Arizona district court judge John Roll is the federal judge who was killed, according to Fox News. He was appointed by George H.W. Bush. He and his family received death threats in 2009 for allowing a lawsuit by illegal immigrants, fueled by talk-radio hosts. How very Arizona of you, Arizona!

Fucker news analyst on Fox News: The violence of Mexico is encroaching on Arizona now. Good to see they can scramble to stay on message!

UPDATE: Also according to Fox: the shooter was a 22-year-old white male. The poor young man probably fell in with the Mexicans! Pity him! (We are now vomiting some more.)

UPDATE: AP says shooter is named Jared Laughner. He’s in custody.

Twitter:

Let’s hope so. A shot from an automatic weapon in the temple from her constituent and she survives? Would be amazing. Way to stick it to those fuckers.

UPDATE: Status on Giffords is critical condition, according to doctor at the press conference. He expects her to survive. She was shot one time. One dead at his hospital: a nine-year-old child.

Arizona crazies couldn’t let only one guy have all the fun:

Here’s an insane video that opens saying the uploader’s name is Jared Lee Loughner. Sounds like a Paultard, but absolutely crazy and concerned with dreams. He wants to make a new currency or something. Fox News says he seems to be a war veteran. Afghanistan.

From YouTube: “The government is implying mind control and brainwash on the people by controlling grammar. No! I won’t pay debt with a currency that’s not backed by gold and silver.” The morans have risen up.

In addition to rampant irony, there is rampant yeesh. Yeesh:

[NPR/HuffPo via James Urbaniak/NYT/AZ Republic/Dave Weigel/Wikipedia/The Hill/MSNBC via Kateoplis/Blog for Arizona/Google cache/Twitter/Twitter/YouTube/Twitter]

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Jack Stuef is your loyal editor and a freelance satirist or something like that. He is a contributing writer for The Onion. E-mail him or whatever.

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593 comments

    1. horsedreamer_1

      twoeightnine, make sure to save that on your own thumb-drive, since you known Sarah Palin will be whitewashing the poster.

    2. horsedreamer_1

      Save that pic to your thumbdrive, with the IP information, since you know our girl Sarah is going to be white-washing this.

    3. PsycWench

      Dammit, I want to see that image attached to every news story on this tragedy. Then I want to hear Palin apologize for real.

        1. PsycWench

          I wish. This is why PACs have that banner about not being authorized by a candidate (that, and tax laws). She can claim that it's not her work and she isn't responsible.

    4. PsycWench

      I want to see that image in every new story about this tragedy. And then I want to hear some apologizing and not that "I'm sorry I was misinterpreted" bullshit either.

      1. natoslug

        I've been using that image every time someone on other sites comments about how this had nothing to do with Beck, Palin and the rest of the fucktard crew that keep rallying the crazies to kill. Sorry, but it's bullshit if they now want to say it's just figurative. And no, this was not the action of a liberal. By the time you get to his rants on "the Gold Standard" it's pretty fucking obvious that this guy watches a shitload more Glenn Beck than Rachel Maddow. Fuck you, GOP, for inviting the hatiest of haters into your bigotry tent. Pretty sure that's what they meant by big tent, just a fucking typo on their part. fuck.

        1. HELisforHEL

          It's so fucking irritating that outlets like NPR are skating around assigning THE SO FUCKING OBVIOUS BLAME to these cheesedicks. I wanted to strangle the radio this morning while Cokie Republitard Roberts offered her (as always) useless analysis, trying to convince us that we can't rightly pin the blame for this type of violence on Tea Party/NeoCon rhetoric . Come on, reporters. Call it for what it is! Grow some Murrow/Cronkite sized balls and do what you're supposed to do.

    5. sati_demise

      they all said "targeting a politician has an entirely DIFFERENT meaning, even if we use a gun sight as a symbol"

    6. Radiotherapy

      Don't QUIT, reload YOU FUCKING ALASKUNT
      Not that she cares, the psychopath, but there is blood on her hands.
      Why don't you go shoot another reindeer on your fake show…bitch.

    7. jcinco

      this will be palin's waterloo. she can scrub her crosshairs post all she wants, screenshots are already viral.

    8. jodyleek

      Shouldn't we throw the now defunct Sharon Angle into this along with Sister Sarah? This sounds like a Second Amendment solution after all. Fucking troglodyte Rethugs, both of them…

      1. HELisforHEL

        Uuuuugh. One of his favorite books is 'Brave New World'? Aldous Huxley is rolling in his grave. It appears Mr. LITERATE! failed at reading comprehension.
        Siiigh

    9. lulzmonger

      AROO! AROO!

      The official happy-horseshit of the day via SarahcudaPAC is that those are actually surveyors' marks (which in RealWorldLand unfortunately just happen to look exactly like 4-piece pies with alternating missing pieces, & not so much like gunsights) … so just stop thinking, STFU & keep your Freedom Tray locked in place & heaped full at all times, citizen!

    1. MaxUdargo

      I think everybody needs to calm down and stop the irresponsible name-calling. You're not elevating discourse in this country by calling people "crazy."

      I'm hoping President Obama comes on television soon and explains to everybody the need for calm deliberation and the virtues of reaching across the aisle. Sure, shooting Democratic politicians is excessive, I think we can all agree on that, but I'm sure if we work together in the spirit of bipartisanship we can reach a compromise. Would Sarah Palin and her Tea Party supporters agree to only "wing" the Democrats they shoot? Perhaps we can get them to forgo guns altogether and only stab? Okay, that's probably not on the table, but surely if we come together in good faith, we can arrive at some understanding. But only if "the professional left" is willing to set aside partisan differences and compromise.

      1. Sparky_McGruff

        Maybe if we give in to some of their demands, they'll only shoot one or two democrats a week? Or maybe only women, gays, and jew democrats?

        What I want to know is if Sarah Palin and company can report this as a "Tea Party Pickup" in congress?

    1. smellyal8tr

      And Boehner, et al in the leadership. While they aren't as culpable, they have indicated, well, it would be better with fewer Democrats in the House.

    2. Sophist FCD

      Too fucking right. You can't tell a bunch of crazy white people that the time has come to exercise 2nd amendment remedies and then act surprised when they shoot people.

      1. neiltheblaze

        Yeah, junior. Keep telling yourself there's no connection. That way you and the rest of the Republican Volksbund fanbase can try and apologize for your irresponsible dumbfuck idols. Fascist.

        1. GeoatBeck

          Fascism,socialism … these are opposites ends of the spectrum and require large governments. Why would I apologize? This is not my doing.or a entity I associate with. The man was an atheist, he was upset because the military gave him a bible when he tried to enlist. I find it curious that all the violence has been from the left (show me where one of those Tea Baggers got arrested or assaulted anyone, I can show you plenty of the left biting fingers off, beating a black man, burning cars, breaking windows). I am to the point that when the libprogs say something, they have either just have, are doing or are about to do it. November shows that people woke up to the lies and they were being told by the left. Well princess, maybe you should apologize?

          1. GeoatBeck

            Wrap your lips around my arse and I'll blow you full of sh*t.

            You a quart low or something?. lol :)

            You know you have one the debate when they resort to name calling or lewd retorts.

          2. PhilippePetain

            Looks like you have the full of shit part down, numbnuts. I feel like that response "one" me the debate.

          3. SorosBot

            Funny that the article you linked to doesn't actually say he was an atheist; I wonder if there is any actual evidence for that, or it's like the zombie lie that fundamentalist Christians keep trotting out and claiming Hitler was an atheist, even though he was a devout Catholic. Not that it matters anyway, nor does that article say anything to indicate he was a leftist; indeed, one of his favorite books listed was "Mein Kampf", written by the aforementioned far-right Hitler; and it appears a white supremacist, a conservative philosophy. So in short, fuck off, troll.

          4. HELisforHEL

            "I find it curious that all the violence has been from the left "
            AH HA HAHAHA
            You're funny.

            Keep believing that fantasy asswipe. It fits in with all your other delusions.

  1. PuckStopsHere

    Horrific, yes. But at least we have our Freedums. Freedom to get shot point blank in the head, etc. This country is too stupid to live.

    1. NorthStarSpanx

      JFK, Robert Kennedy, Dr. MLK, Dr. Tiller and Congresswoman Gifford, step-mama-Grizzly.

      From the Tucson Tea Party. They “wanted to talk to her”: They talked to her alright, talked to her up close point blank.

      Fuckers.

    1. James Michael Curley

      A while ago! Poster on Ben Smith's Politico Blog says a Daily KOS thread has people stating their congresswoma (Giffords) is 'dead to them' because she voted against Nancy Pelosi and for congressman Lewis the other day.

    2. SorosBot

      Not long at all, since we have an evil piece of shit troll trying to claim the terrorist was left-wing right here and now.

        1. SorosBot

          Hey troll, that just takes people to an outlook login; and "Mein Kampf" indicates he's a right-wing nut. Also, how dare you both troll this very thread, and how dare you use an American flag in your icon when you hate America.

        2. PsycWench

          Of course, every liberal i know is obsessed with the state of U.S. currency and keeps a copy of Mein Kampf by the bedside table.

          1. SorosBot

            Well yes, the teabaggers do obsess over currency in weird ways, and are right-wing white supremacists.

    1. horsedreamer_1

      & odds on the special election to fill the seat going for the GOP?

      What's better than even odds?

      Fuck.

    1. ChessieNefercat

      Well, the commenters seem convinced that the shooter must be an illegal alien. Have to see how Fox manages to spin it as her having deserved it.

    2. DustBowlBlues

      CNN said everyone is asking "both sides" to cool the rhetoric. Both sides, right. Because we can name all the acts of violence perpetrated by liberals against conservtards. There's . . .ugh . . .there must be . . .well, those half dozen or so Code Pink ladies have been very rude in hearings.

      As for the 'tard on liberal violence: fuck it. I don't feel like typing all that shit.

      Yeah, keep it fair, everyone. Blame the gun-hating liberals for our over-heated rhetoric. Face it: we can't keep up enough hate to match Rush Limbaugh's radio show for a half hour.

      1. SorosBot

        Strange that people would pin the blame on the very people who are directly responsible; hell it's obvious enough that even the conservative mainstream media gets it.

  2. Dances_For_Ham

    Jesus Kneeling H Christ on a biscuit. The people in this state are insane. I had to move my family out of the neighborhood because the neighborhood "Methamphetamine Boy" kept calling the police stating I was breaking into his house and taking pictures of his furniture. It was a common sight to see him dancing around his front gravel patch, screaming the rats were peeing on him. (Neighbors were unconcerned., and this was a nice neighborhood) Eventually he ended up holing up in his house with his monster truck parked and blocking his front door. When it finally came to an end for this fuck, the police found over 2000 rounds of ammo, a sawed off shotgun and several large caliber handguns secreted through out the house. He had blown holes in the interior walls and nailed all the drawers, window cases and cabinets shut.

    On the back of his bloated white monster truck was a "Sarahcuda:" bumpersticker. He loved himself that woman.

    This bag of phlegm was sentenced to 1 year in prison and will be released in two weeks.

    1. sati_demise

      one reason I refuse to put political bumper stickers on my truck…….I could get run off the road by one of these meth head Beckians. Not a safe thing on Sunset Point.

      1. mumbly_joe

        That actually happened to a college professor of mine, not even a block off campus, in one of the bluer parts of suburban PA, back when I was in school. Literally run off the road. And then he came back around and made a second pass, shouting obscenities. Because of a Kerry sticker. I don't think John Kerry has ever managed to elicit so strong an emotional response, prior or since.

      1. Dances_For_Ham

        Behavior like this doesn't make the newspaper / web in Arizona. Have you ever traveled through Phoenix? It is like a meth powered freak walk. Toons everywhere. The link I have to this event is my new mortgage, and the two weeks I had to spend in a hotel until the police picked this fuck up.

    2. OzoneTom

      Sounds like a real candidate for a Second Amendment Remedy. Just simple self-defense donchaknow.

      1. Dances_For_Ham

        The police explained to me they only come after a crime is committed and it was my responsibility to protect my family. They hinted strongly that I should be prepared to meet deadly force with deadly force. (This recidivist was seen almost daily walking around with a shot gun in his side yard, which was 8 feet away from my master bedroom.) And no, I don't have a link to this as well.

    1. Dances_For_Ham

      True dat. Just came out of nowhere. I hate this fucking state and the sub-humans I have to deal with on a day to day basis. The only upside to this state, is the people are so stupid, it is easy to make a living here. (As long as you show up as promised, don't lie and don't smell like poo)

    2. PublicLuxury

      Right-Wing Extremists just need smallest excuse to use their guns. They love their guns and use them like a fleece blanket. Somebody bother you? Shoot 'em
      Somebody cut you off at the exit? Shoot 'em
      Somebody vote for something you don't believe in? Shoot 'em
      Don't like how elections turn out? Shoot 'em
      Law Enforcement not doing something fast enough for ya? Shoot 'em.

      Ignorant bastards.

      1. baconzgood

        "An elected official that you don't like….Don't write letters or get out to vote. shoot them" This is the right wing thinking now. As GW said. "If your not for (the right wing nutz) then your against us". Aparently that is the only politics that the right know now.

      1. bagofmice

        Given the number of shots fired, it is obvious that he took this advice to heart. And head in some cases.

    1. JustPixelz

      I can't imagine any other reason to target a member of Congress like that except to undo the election. So the trouble with "fucking them all to hell" is they really just want to kill people. When brown people do that, it's called "terrorism".

      1. Crank_Tango

        well my first thought was retribution, but that would be terrorism and get me on a watchlist of some sort. then again we are probably all on a watchlist just for posting here.

        1. Rotundo_

          A safe bet there, unfortunately. As for the Second Amendment, given the sheer amount of crazy these days, having a small armory might not be a bad idea after all. I don't want to hurt anyone, but if they are coming in my house to kill me, I at least want to wing them before I go down.

  3. horsedreamer_1

    Shorter David Broder: everybody does it.

    We must come together in this time of trial & prove we can work as one, by defunding Social Security.

        1. horsedreamer_1

          One of my better — only, really — real-life friends has said I should move to DC.

          Apparently, he's right. I'm down with the Enzytegeist.

      1. horsedreamer_1

        If Bill Daley were anything like his dad, it's a wonder what the National Guard in Arizona would be called out to do.

  4. TxSpinyLizrd

    I just left a message at the SarahPAC office telling her this is what happens when you inflame your redneck base to violence. You too can remind Sarah of her role in Rep Gifford's death, when she published materials with a gunsight on this politician's district. SarahPAC number is (202) 747-1812.

  5. PsycWench

    Harry Reid predicted the demise of the Tea Party when the economy improved. Let's hope to God that the demise is beginning now that the populace sees what that kind of rhetoric causes.
    Not holding my breath though.

    1. horsedreamer_1

      Exactly. If James Earl Ray couldn't kill this movement dead when he shot Peace Prize Laureate & Christian* Preacher Martin Luther King, no one will ever do anything heinous enough to make the Reactionary Right see the error in their means.

      I thought the Right liked Christians?

        1. horsedreamer_1

          True. But those black Christians are Christians because their slave-masters (the Good, white Christians) thought it would keep them docile.

          So, whitey has only himself to blame. Should have just let Kunta Kinte remain a Muslin. (Why, yes, I did read Roots when I was 13. Seriously.)

        2. Sparky_McGruff

          It's the subtle distinctions. Democrats trying to encourage minorities to vote: Terraists. Teabagger shoots Giffords: Patriot. (or, alternatively, "not affiliated with the tea party movement").

          All I can hope is that we can hang their words around their neck and let the weight of their violent stupidity drag them under the waves. Don't retreat, Reload. We just want our country back. Second amendment solutions. Etc, etc.

          1. HistoriCat

            Well it's not like anyone could have foreseen that paranoid loony talking points would be taken seriously and lead to some asshole actually trying make use of his Second Amendment remedies and reload rather than retreat.

    2. GeoatBeck

      Harry is an idiot. Anything to spin the fact that it is a true non-violent grass roots movement. Sorry, there is now a Tea Party caucus in congress. So how does he figure it is going away? Like I said, an idiot.

  6. comrad_darkness

    Don't panic Fox News, you haven't lost a viewer. The gunman will probably get teevee privileges in prison.

  7. ByronTheBulb

    The last member of Congress to be murdered in office was Leo Ryan, killed by the mutants at Jonestown. So, that's where the national discourse is at now.

    1. horsedreamer_1

      How things change. Leo never drank the Kool-Aid, but Gabrielle guzzled that SOZILIST PURPLE STUFF.

      (Too much?)

      (Prolly.)

      (But, fuck it, I'm reeling. As someone who spent eight hours on a surgical table getting heart surgery this summer, this wave of death has me feeling not right. At all.)

    2. LibrulEleet

      Wasn't there a Congressman on KAL 007, shot down by the Soviets a few years after that (1982 or 83)?

  8. savethispatient

    The first person to suggest that this whole tragedy could have been avoided by Congressmen and/or Grocery store clerks being armed deserves a stern talking to. But not to be shot, 'cos that's fucking insane.

    My thoughts and sympathies to the victims' families.

    1. finallyhappy

      of course, people will say that. They always do- instead of recognzing as sane people do that more guns means more shitheads with guns, not people protecting other people.

  9. UW8316154

    Nothing funny about this, so I deleted my snark. But I sense right-wing, white-trash outrage behind these horrible murders.

  10. smokefilledroommate

    Holy fucking shit–I can't believe this.. I'm surprised it wasn't Grijalva. I need to get the fuck out of this state now.

    1. sati_demise

      yea, we lost our nice Dem Congresslady up here in Yavapai county to a teaparty dentist who is fucking crazy.

    2. Bonzos_Bed_Time

      CA will welcome you with open arms. Serious, liberals and the non-insane have no business living in AZ. Don't give me any BS about how liberal Tuscon or Flag is, either. Still part of the state…

      1. HELisforHEL

        Bring your intelligence and jobs to Connecticut. Sure, it's overly expensive to live or do business here (we expect businesses to be somewhat good citizens-don't pollute the water, don't fill the sky with any more shit then we already have, etc.), and our weather is 'Meh'. But we have a fairly compassionate, blue leaning citizenry that makes it manageable.
        Oh, and great Thai, Indian and Vietnamese food.

      2. natoslug

        I'm willing to start an exchange program. AZ can have Darryl(sp?) Issa, and CA will welcome the saner residents of AZ.

    1. Hagar7

      Considering the fact that the white guy who flew his plane into that IRS building right when he knew pretty much everyone would be at their desks was called a "patriot" (or, at worst, "troubled") when flying planes into office buildings is kind of THE terrorism benchmark for the new millenium, I would have to agree with you.

      1. SorosBot

        The judge who was killed had apparently ruled against Arizona's racist immigration law, so sadly assassin is probably still accurate.

  11. GuanoFaucet

    Also, if the shooter turns out to be some racist, "Second Amendment Remedies" teabagger fucktard, the media better call this an act of fucking terrorism. Fuck, I'm going to have a drink, or twelve.

    1. JustPixelz

      "…if…"?!?

      Maybe it will be time for Michele Bachmann to investigate the anti-American attitudes of her Tea Party supporters.

    2. Sassomatic

      I'm glad this guy is still alive, because I want everyone to hear him say what motivated him, where his political ideas come from, how much he admires Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin, etc.

  12. Frost/Nixon/Robocop

    We all know who perpetrates this kind of terrorist act. Why are we randomly searching people?

  13. Sue4466

    This is just horrifying and yes, nothing funny or snarky to say. What a tragedy for the Congresswoman, the other victims, and their families.

  14. Troubledog

    Arizona, you are dead to me. There is no merit to your continued inclusion in our nation. You are a welfare state, and consume more Federal dollars in grants and services than you supply in taxes. Your institutionalized hatred makes you unsuitable to be part of the first world, let alone a representative democracy. I propose we do indeed finish that fence, but replot it to keep you away from us.

    And take motherfucking Nevada with you.

    1. OzoneTom

      I hear you. I do a lot of shopping on eBay and when I see a seller in a place like Arizona, Texas, Florida or any other backward state I just exclude them. I know that there are intelligent decent people in those states but lacking anything else to go on I just can't contribute to those economies.

      BTW, I'm also in a particularly heinous red state but still encourage everyone with a consciousness to boycott us whenever possible. Thank-you.

  15. Winnie_Cooper

    Gabby was one of the good ones. I'm still trying to find out information about the other victims, in particular a friend who worked for her. If you guys see any names or other information, could you please post it here? Genuine thanks. I have no snark on this story.

      1. Winnie_Cooper

        Thank you! Perhaps I should have said, "Gabby *is* one of the good ones." Clearly I'm too cynical for my own good around here. I'm really hoping that she makes a full recovery. We are getting so many crazy reports that I don't even know what to believe. 24 hour news cycle, you are failing me when I need you the most!

    1. Jukesgrrl

      KOLD News13, the Tucson CBS affiliate, is streaming live on their website. Hospital news conference was announced for 1:30, AZ time, but it's already 1:37 as I type this and it has yet to start. I'm sure that will be on the national news. All best thoughts for your friend.

      1. Winnie_Cooper

        Thanks. A friend in the Oro Valley Police Department thinks that my friend is okay, but there is a lot of confusion on the ground, and since it isn't in his jurisdiction, I will feel better when I hear something more official. They aren't releasing names to the media pending notification. Supposedly Chief Judge John Roll of the US District Court was among those killed.

  16. Rarian Rakista

    RFK and MLK were killed in 68' – culminating some 4 years of increasing hostility by right wingers and religious nutters – but what is not as well known is the numerous attacks on congresspeople who voted for LBJ's 'War on Poverty' and Civil Rights legislation after 1964. No deaths but a hell of a lot of shot up offices, firebombings and the like.

    Sadly, I'm afraid, this level of animus and violence is just getting started and for the Capitol police to not of drawn parallels between the 1960's civil rights era right wing terrorism and today is shockingly bad work. Especially since her office has already had shots fired at it, she has been threatened repeatedly and honestly, let's think about this, who lets a Democratic wife of an astronaut talk in the asshole of Arizona without armed guards? Some of those people still believe in a 6000 year old geocentric universe. Someone needs to be fired.

    Sarah Palin and Jesse Kelly need to be held absolutely accountable for this.

    Her opponent called for her "removal from office" by holding a party with M-16's, check Daily KOS. http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2011/1/8/13371/4

    1. DoktorZoom

      For what it's worth, Tucson is one of the saner parts of Arizona–the sort of place where they elect people like Giffords and Raul Grijalva. During the short unhappy term of Evan Mecham (the true asshole of Arizona), there was a tongue-in-cheek movement for secession of "Baja Arizona" from the loonocracy in Phoenix.

  17. Troubledog

    My god, people, does there need to be another civil war? Look to those who profit from our discord. There you will find the true enemies of our nation, our rights, and our freedoms. I am overcome with horror and rage.

      1. glamourdammerung

        Six months if we simply stopped funding them and did nothing else. They tend to like to bite the hand that allows them to exist.

      2. Troubledog

        Your idea has merit until you consider the huge Arizona footprint of defense innovators including BAE Systems, Boeing, Raytheon, Honeywell, General Dynamics…

    1. lingin

      I've had the feeling we've been in a figurative civil war since the Clinton administration. Now I have a feeling we may be moving into a literal one.

      Except this time let the South (and its sympathizers) go.

  18. comrad_darkness

    Oh, I like the handy dandy second amendment remedies cheat sheet.

    Paling around with terrorists, Sarah?

    1. horsedreamer_1

      One individual's terrorist is another individual's freedom-fighter.

      Hasn't Peter King's relationship with the IRA taught us anything?

  19. inedal

    what can one expect in a state and country that encourage guns, guns, and more guns for every freedom-loving, 2nd amendment luvin
    wingnut.
    by the way, is that a sarah palin blue ad in this wonkette page?
    well i guess one's gotta take money from wherever it comes.
    i ain't complaining here, just wondering.
    sure, i'd take some money from the soundbite snowgrifter Payland if i could…

    1. gvvt

      She was a victim of 2nd Amendment Remedies. Do we feel sorry for infections wiped out by antibiotics? No.

        1. gvvt

          Sorry – I was thinking I should label that as bad-taste irony. One of the problems is, of course, the view that the "body politic" is diseased and that violent action is the equivalent of medical intervention. Worked as a real effective metaphor in Germany in the 30s.

    2. les_gvt

      the more people that have guns, the less criminals tend to use them, in fear of being shot themselves.

      The entire purpos of the 2nd Amendment was so as to keep the federal government in fear of the public

      1. x111e7thst

        All I have to say to you is Christina-Taylor Green. Please go away and take your unspeakably idiotic ideas with you.

      2. JustPixelz

        Doesn't anyone read the Constitution anymore?

        A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

        The Second Amendment was to protect the formation of Militias to secure, not fight, secure the government.

      3. DoktorZoom

        Arizona's open-carry laws did such a great job of preventing the shooter from going ahead with his murders.

  20. obfuscator2

    now a sheriff on msnbc is claiming she's still alive.

    a source from the hospital she was flown to says she's in surgery right now.

  21. JackObin

    Just another day in Gun Nut Land. My only reaction is what was such a beautiful and accomplished woman doing in Arizona? The future of this sinking country looks very dim indeed.

  22. Serfville

    I guess Palin's cutesy tootsie lil' reload tagline is officially ovah. This is the day the Spree Party finally ended. This is what happens when Type II Diabetic Rednecks in Spree Party States get drunk on too many government programs like Medicare & go batshit.

    1. HistoriCat

      Right on – fuck them all. Fuck Sarah Palin and Glen Beck and Rush fucking Limbaugh and fuck Fuck FUCK Fox fucking "News"

  23. Blendergoathead

    Fuck. Holy. Fucking. Fuck. How many tears is Boehner going to shed on the tee-vee over this?

    Fuck. They killed a person. Fuck.

  24. Jerri

    Jesus Christ. This is just completely horrible.

    I trust* Sarah et al will react to the news with the appropriate level of respect, regardless of whether or not the gunman winds up being a fan of right wing nuttery.

    *will be shocked if

    1. Fare la Volpe

      She issued a twat giving the standard "Our hopes and prayers are with you." Naturally, no part of her updates admit she had anything to do with this.

    1. JustPixelz

      apparently didn't look like an illegal alien or anything suspicious to Arizona law enforcement.

    1. horsedreamer_1

      No. Jon Stewart would have us believe there's some left-winger out there who did this to a GOP Congressman. "Everybody does it", he claimed, "& needs to stop".

      Jonny Boy is still feeling the effects of StraightTalkExpressitis, first manifesting in 2000.

      1. BarackMyWorld

        Because I've never heard Jon Stewart criticize a Republican for violent rhetoric, nor ever heard a liberal say they wished physical harm on Bush or Limbaugh?

        Stewart spends 90% of his show attacking right-wing propaganda, so don't be mad that he simply acknowledges that there are nuts on the left as well.

        1. glamourdammerung

          That is the problem though. There are nuts on the left and the right. But one side has them on the fringes and the other has them running their show, which is a pretty big difference.

        2. horsedreamer_1

          It's not that he mentions that some leftists have expressed violent sentiments, rather the equivalence, that the attempts to propagate civil war by the left have been done in the same way, at the same levels, as on the right.

          1. Chet Kincaid

            John Stewart is a putz. On his biggest stage, days before a critical election, he pretended equivalence, against the evidence of 10 years of his own damned program.

          2. BarackMyWorld

            He wasn't trying to have a partisan rally, he wanted everyone to tone down their rhetoric. For him to give the loud-mouths on the left a free pass would've been hypocritical, given how unhinged many got during the Bush years. 9/11 Truthers and people who thought the flooding in New Orleans was deliberate weren't exactly working for the RNC.

            As far as Stewart's attacks on the media goes, when MSNBC and Fox fail to report things that don't fit within their predetermined ideological narrative, the public isn't being served. Neither seems to be devoted to finding the truth (nor is CNN, but for different reasons). I'll admit, MSNBC's standard's are a little higher (and it doesn't give lunatics like Glenn Beck their own shows), but that doesn't make them innocent of periodically using partisan rhetoric in news reports and ignoring accurate information that might cast doubt on their pre-determined conclusion.

  25. bumfug

    I would have posted a comment earlier but the first thing I did after reading about this was to Google "how to get a passport."

    1. OzoneTom

      The government was anticipating this. The cost went up last year.

      It's a win-win for them to drive progressives to this degree of desperation.

  26. Badonkadonkette

    I'm gonna break ranks with my Wonketteers, though I love you all, and not speculate as to anyone's motives. Those will be known in time. Now all we know is that a great, beloved Representative has been critically injured, and possibly killed. I'm focusing all my energy in hoping that she and others shot pull through. There will be plenty of time to talk, yell, and come to blows over why this happened later.

  27. ByronTheBulb

    Right now, some Fox News Executives are figuring out how to spin this into a "shooter is a liberal nut" story. But then, he if HE is a Nazi as early rumors say, than that just means he's a "National Socialist". Problem solved!

    I'm also guessing that this is the first time that a female American politician has been murdered, unless someone knows of another example. But, she was Jewish so that may not count in Arizona.

  28. OurHoboSenator

    Fucking hell. Oklahoma City was only 16 years ago. Is our national learning curve about overheated violent rhetoric just completely flat?

    1. Rotundo_

      Our national learning curve about overheated violent rhetoric is completely flat. An optomist might hope for some voices of rational thought or decency from the right after a "learning opportunity" like this. I'm thinking not.

          1. GeoatBeck

            Your whole perspective? I sure you live at the Huffpo and/or DailyKOS (didn't the DailyKOS have Gifford on their hitlist?). Gifford is a bluedog Dem with votes on securing the border.

    2. Rarian Rakista

      You can't sell the bullshit the republicans have without hatred, because if you think for a moment about what they are saying in an interior reasonable voice you will not have the utter lack of awareness needed to keep yelling in an outside wingnut voice.

        1. SorosBot

          Hey, you might want to try appearing credible by linking to someone who is not a completely discredited racist known for her constant lies.

    3. DustBowlBlues

      The Teabaggers held their anti-health care rally just minutes from the OKC Memorial. You tell me about overheated rhetoric.

      I'm tellin' ya': those Tim McVeigh Commemorative tee shirts are going to make me a fortune someday.

    4. undeadgoat

      Speaking as a person who is probably closer to the shooter's age than you are (I'm 21), I think the only thing I've heard about Oklahoma City since McVeigh was executed (aka since before I started middle school) has been liberals saying "Why can't anyone actually take demagogues to task for X violent act? Have we forgotten Oklahoma City?"

      I think the answer is yes, of course we have, and probably the people who stop by the memorial at the bombing site are those who are least able to generalize in their thinking about demagoguery.

  29. beer4prez

    This makes me sick and sad. But hopefully it will lead individuals to be more careful with how they frame political antagonism and discussions. Those who espouse the "second amendment remedies" junk and the like are playing a dangerous game. Truly disgusting. The RIGHT in this country is behaving sickeningly irresponsible and I fault anyone who sides with them for that.

    1. finallyhappy

      They will continue- those with any intelligence sucker the morons. Hatred, bigotry, violence is the central position of the right. Nothing else.

    2. DustBowlBlues

      Yeah. I know the Murrah Building bomb, the shooting of the Unitarians in Tenn, Doctor Teller, et al, really made a difference in these Sean O'Rushbeck loving dickwads.

      Listening to Rush on the radio yesterday, I'm not suprised wingnuts get sent over the edge.

  30. x111e7thst

    If it turns out that this shooting was done by a "lone wolf terrorist" inspired to act by the preaching of Cryin' Glen and Shillin' Sarah I am sure that ALL the guilty parties will be pursued with the same vigor that we employ against Yemeni internet mullahs.

      1. aqua_buddha

        Just heard the Fox guy noting that this kind of thing last happened at the hands of "puerto-rican nationalists or somethng" ….

        If you can link to anything Non-White, the Fox echo chamber will take it and just try it out for awhile. Not that they mean anything by it.

      2. smashaduck

        Since I'm not actually on Free Republic, I didn't see the need for "sarc tags" to clarify for the 'tards. And, I get to fucking use god damn big people words. Also.

    1. chascates

      The gunman was young, mid-to-late 20s, white, clean-shaven with short hair and wearing dark clothing and said nothing during the shooting or while being held down, although he struggled at first. He was "not particularly well-dressed"; he didn't look like a businessman, but more of a "fringe character," Rayle said. The sheriff's department arrived, arrested the gunman and cordoned off the parking lot.<i/>

      Fringe character all right. Standard wing nut who probably has Glenn Beck books all over his room.

  31. sati_demise

    6 dead?, `12 people shot? 15 to 20 rounds…….? Neilist needs to tell us what kind of gun this is that can kill so many with one bullet…….

    1. Neilist

      The average modern combat pistol load (e.g., a 9mm; .40 cal. S&W) is designed to minimize the odds of a "through and through" shot if the target is the center of mass, e.g., the body trunk, which is where you are supposed to aim in most combat situations — or Kill Your Congressperson Scenarios.

      Same thing, really.

      The idea is that you want to transfer as much of the energy of the bullet into the target's body, to maximize the tissue damage and hydrostatic shock. If the bullet exits the body, energy is wasted that could have been used to incapacitate the target.

      [Broadly stated, pistol rounds are relatively inefficient at "stopping" a human being quickly, when compared to a rifle or shotgun. The pistol round typically is moving about 1/3 the speed of a rifle bullet, and thus as much less ballistic energy.]

      You can have a through-and-through with a pistol round, particularly when the bullet hits an extremity or only soft issue; and the range is very short. But that's more an accident in the physics/target alignment.

      The standard practice for "Quick Stops" nowadays is the "Mozambique Drill": Two shots into the center of mass (the chest); followed by one shot into the head. If you practice — and some of us do — you can place all three shots in less than a second. The sound is BANGBANG:::very short beat:::BANG.

      That's pretty much guaranteed to be fatal. But it's three rounds per target.

      The other factor is head wounds. If this guy was able to fire at point blank range into the victims' heads — because they were Liberals Who Refused To Believe That Bad Shit Happens, and failed to take precautions or whatever — one-shot kills are easily done. But if the target is moving – running around, screaming, or just shaking in terror — a head shot can be difficult to get.

      That's the whole idea behind the Mozambique Drill: The first two into the chest stop the target, and the third one into the head makes sure you don't get nailed by a "Last Gasp" final return shot.

      Any other questions?

      [ASSHOLE. Got it.]

  32. Jukesgrrl

    The sheriff who is quoted as saying Giffords is in surgery is Gene Dupnik, sheriff of Pima County. You will remember him as one of the two border sheriffs who publicly opposed 1070 and appeared on national TV speaking against it. As the chief law enforcer in Giffords district, his is the voice to listen to.

    I can barely type this as my hands are shaking. I would love to say this is beyond my ability to comprehend, but I've predicted here and other places that this was an inevitable event. I've met Gabby Giffords many times at Dem party events, but never attend her very public "Congress on Your Corner" meetings for this EXACT REASON.

    I never agreed with everything she said/did. Not liberal enough for me. But, of course, I voted for her in Nov., as her opponent was a tea bagger extreme. The sheriff has confirmed at least one death of a person who worked for Giffords.

    1. sati_demise

      with you on this. Progressives have to be very careful in Az. and it only got worse after Palin hit the national stage. We lost our nice Dem Congresswoman in Yavapai couty to a teabagger nutzo

      1. dyedwool

        Jukes and Sati,

        Being at a reasonably safe remove, physically and personally, as I'm not in/from AZ, it would be SO easy for me to say, "C'mon, this is the time to buck up, and FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT THAT MUCH HARDER!!! Don't give up!" But I know it's easy for me to say, and I can only imagine how demoralizing it must be for you having to actually LIVE as "The Other" in that godforsaken hellhole of Brewerstan.

        Shit, what was my point? Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. That, and I guess I do take some small comfort knowing there are still some sane people like you in that insane fucking place. Gives me a wee bit of hope…despite all evidence to the contrary. I'm just sorry you're having to "take one for the team," as it were.

        1. ChessieNefercat

          I would never pick on little Trig. He has enough to bear in life with that screeching harpy pretending she's his mother just so she can drag him around every time she needs a prop to show off her so-called pro-life creds.

  33. LakeLucilleLoon

    The douchebags at SarahPac REMOVED the target map from the SarahPac website, just a few minutes ago. Feeling guilty much?

    1. BarackMyWorld

      Someone was finally all "Oh, shit!" and put two and two together. That person was probably not their glorious leader, though.

      1. ChessieNefercat

        Yeah, I'm pretty sure the answer to 2+2 is beyond that fucking, hateful cunt unless there are dollar signs involved.

        PS Please excuse my language, I just couldn't find a word that matches that vile cretin any better.

        1. tabouley

          Used to avoid using that word, but if there is any time to use it, it is now, and if there is any person who deserves that description, it is her.
          They just said that a 9 year old girl was killed.

    2. MarionNYNY

      If the Southern Poverty Law Center could work out a strategy for bankrupting the KKK after a they lynched Michael Donald, then couldn't the families of the victim's here sue the crap out of the supporters of Sarah Pak, Faux News etc? I'd like to see them OWN Faux News.

    3. Hagar7

      Exactly. Although it's too little, too late — the damn thing is on every site I've seen discussing it, including, of course, here. And frankly, although this shooting horrifies and saddens me, some part of me is still stank and angry enough to be glad that Palin isn't going to be able to scrub it off the Net entirely and stroll away from this one whistling.

      1. horsedreamer_1

        Apparently, the DLC put out a "target" map in '06 or '08, but rather than cross-hairs used archery targets. So, unless they were suggesting assassination by cross-bow, I think that's a more conventional take on the "targetted races, but not targetted people" line.

  34. mirrorballdc

    This tragedy could have been prevented if everyone else at the store had been packing heat, like all good Americans.

    1. PuckStopsHere

      Fuken A, right! US 'Merkins should be REQUIRED to pack. Shit, ya gotta wear a seat belt when you drive. Same diff…

      1. Neilist

        "only be 36 people and a couple of stray cats dead . . . ."

        You say that as if it was a Bad Thing . . . .

        Now, if it was a couple of SIAMESE cats . . . .

        [ASSHOLE. Check.]

  35. Fare la Volpe

    Just like it was those left-wing Nazi infiltrators who burned down the Reichstag, I'm sure.

      1. HELisforHEL

        This is the argument I see having with my Libertarian Gun Fan Boy brother. Yeah, what we really need is wild west solutions to crime. Everybody! Get a gun! If you see a crime being committed just open fire and randomly shoot people! Maybe-just maybe-you'll actually take out the perpetrator. You'll be a hero! Yay! Freedumb reigns!
        GREAT IDEA NRA MORONS.

        1. SorosBot

          Well it was proven here, since Jared was taken out by bystanders in the crowd who – um – tackled him. Never mind.

  36. sati_demise

    THANKS JOHN MCCAIN for calling out and condemning this Sarahpac poster

    what?

    He said it was fine? Just politics?

  37. Barbara_i

    Someone said that Sarah removed her little target practice human map off her website. Oh Sarah, do you not know that the interwebs have people who already saved this shit, you horrible little chicken shit weasel of a woman. You and Beck and the rest of the idiots who are trying to scare the stupid people into a frenzy make me sick. Honestly, I thought that someone would have tried to shoot President Obama by now, heaven forbid. The thought horrifies me. I hate you, Sarah Palin. I hate you with the white hot intensity of a thousand suns. I don't wish you dead though. That would make me the same monster that you are.

    1. Rotundo_

      Who knows how many attempts to assassinate Obama have been quietly and discretely stopped? I have a feeling if we knew what the Secret Service knows that we'd all shit. One budget item they need to increase, unfortunately, is security for representatives, senators, cabinet members, and judges

    2. fuflans

      what's really good on a terrible day like this is being able to turn to wonkette and read all the hundreds of literate comments sharing the same sadness and rage and even humor. helps a little.

      and my thoughts exactly.

  38. mavenmaven

    Apparently a child was also shot, according to the NYT. I suppose this is alright in teabag world, because in our end-of-weimar America, wiping out all dissent to the death including children is a second amendment right of "taking back the country".

    1. randoracer

      That's what the little kid gets for obviously being a liberal Commie-pinko who wants to always have access to health care and, you know, rights and shit. Fuck this shooter and anyone of his ilk .

  39. GodShammgod

    Republicans may feign sympathy, but in reality they're all salivating at the chance of taking back a Republican-leaning House seat in a special election. Don't be fooled.

  40. ChessieNefercat

    What are the rules in Arizona if a congressperson dies or is otherwise incapacitated (i.e., long recovery) in office? How is he/she replaced? Do any Arizonans here know the answer?

    I hope that whether by appointment or by election, the congressperson MUST be from the same party.

    Consider the alternative if that is not the case. Don't like the results of an election? Off 'em and try again.

    My prayers and condolences to all the victims.

  41. smellyal8tr

    Another act of domestic terrorism inspired by the Al Queda of Alaska and Arizona (it means "the base"). Let's not let Jan Brewer off the hook here. She's presided over a lot of this and has continued to let the crazee right run wild. Also, any life loving D needs to keep the heat turned up on Palin and her brood over this. That Rodeo Clown Glenn Beck will be on Monday talking about how this was a limited incident, but he's driving this, no matter what he says. Horrifying. Absolutely horrifying.

    1. finallyhappy

      Good luck onthat. maybe Alan Grayson who was defeated will speak out – maybe my Congresswoman, Donna Edwards- but most will keep a low profile and keep quiet(maybe Donna should- a very left-wing black woman congresswoman in a state where we have had some small mail bombs this week). we have seen the enemy and it is the GOP/ right wing.

  42. PublicLuxury

    If those fucking republicans don't get their asses out and demounce this kind of bullshit then they're as guilty as the gunmen. Where's Palin and the idiot savant Angle?
    Ignorant fuckin' bastards.

    1. OzoneTom

      Not wholly ignorant.

      The reason that they and the MSM are so working against this being identified in any way as characterized as terror is that would put them on the horns of a dilemma.

      Denounce and alienate 2/3 of their base?

    1. Neilist

      Interesting. That's how Democracy was born, too.

      That whole "shot heard round the word" thingie? Or did you think they were using Airsofts?

      [God, you people have GOT to stop blocking punches with your faces.

      Rhetorically, I mean. The idea of any of you being in a fist-fight is too amusing for words.]

  43. Steverino247

    Unindicted co-conspirators:

    Governor Jan Brewer
    Former-Governor Sarah Palin
    Jesse Kelly
    "Entertainers" Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter
    Fox News management

    Add your own names.

    On the positive side: If the doctors treating the victims need consultation, may I suggest COL Rocco Armonda at Walter Reed Army Medical Center. If you need brain surgery or post-trauma treatment for one, he is the man. He is beyond brilliant. If you want to be inspired by a doctor's story, look him up.

    1. Fare la Volpe

      Stop referring to her as a former governor. You need to earn that title, and bitch sure as fuck didn't.

      1. Steverino247

        Posting a comment makes it impossible to correct that "error." However, she was the duly elected (for some fucking reason) Governor of the State of Alaska so that's the proper term to use. Personally, I prefer "Cunt Sarah Palin" but I don't get to make the rules.

  44. ChessieNefercat

    Everybody laughed at Minnesota over the Franken/Coleman election, but I remember thinking that Minnesota and the US should be proud.

    Everyone carefully followed the law regarding close elections, the vote checkers were from both parties and worked closely and cooperatively to ensure a truthful and valid election result, Coleman and Franken each hired lawyers, not hit men, there were no threats of violence from either party toward the other, the National Guard did not need to be called in, there were no riots in the street.

    The state and the country abided by the law and a contentious election was settled without violence or bloodshed, a true accomplishment in a country so large and diverse.

    Today's news points in such a horrifyingly different direction. Where are we going? Where are we going to end up? I want to cry.

  45. chascates

    From RedHate's Erick son of Erick:
    But let’s not let the left, yet again, spin this against the tea party movement, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, or Sarah Palin inciting violence. That’s both a profound lie and just another, though lesser, bit of evil.

    1. ByronTheBulb

      Yes, truly the perpetrators of evil here are on the left here. Fuck you, Erick Erickson you truly loathsome hack.

      Next up: Glenn Beck to re-emphasize how he's just an "entertainer".

    2. ChessieNefercat

      No Erick, it is not a "profound" lie. Not even a little white lie. It is the absolute, golden shining truth as sung by all the celestial choirs above.

      And Erick, you are part of the evil in this incident. You fat, smarmy, stupid, ill-educated, lying, sack of oozing mucusy shit.

    3. NotMother?

      Well, gee, why would the dirty motherfucker jump to that conclusion so fast? Guilty conscience much? Oh, that's right, sociopaths don't have consciences. Eat shit, prick.

    1. ChessieNefercat

      Yes please Wonkette, please post updates with times or numbers. If we are going back and forth from site to site, the updates go in different directions which makes it even more confusing.

  46. FlyOverGirl

    This morning, in an unspeakable tragedy, a number of Americans were shot in Tucson, Arizona, at a constituent meeting with Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords. And while we are continuing to receive information, we know that some have passed away, and that Representative Giffords is gravely wounded.

    We do not yet have all the answers. What we do know is that such a senseless and terrible act of violence has no place in a free society. I ask all Americans to join me and Michelle in keeping Representative Giffords, the victims of this tragedy, and their families in our prayers.

    –U.S. President Barack Obama

  47. savethispatient

    Public Health announcement: if you're already reeling from this news, avoid reading the comments on news websites.

    I've just that someone has "no sympathy" for Gifford as she was "pro-choice". Another "prefers civil war to obamacare". Perhaps take a step back and think, people.

  48. Hagar7

    I'm so sorry that this happened to Rep. Giffords, her staff, and their families.

    Memo to Homeland Security: right now we're all statistically more likely to be killed by a white male Republican between the ages of 18 and 54 than we are to be offed by a mythical brown person with a pocket full of anthrax. Fucking refocus.

    1. Steverino247

      Absolutely correct. There are domestic enemies of the Constitution and this act was perpetrated by one of them. White, Christian males blow up clinics in this country as well as Federal buildings in Oklahoma. I know it's sexier to chase after Muslins, but the FBI needs to pay more attention to the other side of this evil coin.

      1. Hagar7

        Thank you. Right now they need to worry more about the assholes trying to win the favor of a certain Alaskan grandmother than they do about the ones aiming for 72 virgins.

  49. chascates

    There are actually some posts on Pallin's Facebook page calling her out (they'll soon be scrubbed) but most are what you'd expect:
    #
    Heather Moore–Everyone needs to relax. Its not like she had a target of the face of the poor congresswoman. She only pointed out where the problems were on a map. You dont even know why it was done. It could have been completely personal and not poli…tical. You people who are placing the blame on Sarah are accomplishing one thing. You are giving the individual a good defensive strategy. It will be very easy for him to claim insanity and blame it on palin rather than to admit to what really might have happened. I am a republican but I dont like the idea of anyone being wrongfully accused. I still believe in innocent till proven guilty. Other that that, the things you people are saying is slander and I hope she sues your pants off.See More
    3 minutes ago ·
    #
    Glenda Gaye Reyes–Sarah Palin represents all that is good in this nation. For those of you who want to outlaw guns, feel free to give yours up. To in any way blame her for this tragedy shows unbelievable ignorance and hatefulness. You probably also want the rich to be taxed more than everyone else, feel free to pay all you want in taxes, if you pay any at all which most likely you don't.

    1. BarackMyWorld

      Yes, obviously the real victim in all this is Sarah Palin. I'm so glad she has such loyal followers to come to her defense in her hour of need.

  50. Limeylizzie

    Sometimes I just weep for this country, how can Sarah Palin not issue a statement saying that she feels some responsibility? Oh…because she is such a cunty cunt.

    1. Jukesgrrl

      She's already issued a "condolence" message from herself and Todd. It's being read on TV news in Tucson. WHY do they think we care what she thinks?

    2. obfuscator2

      that would require some level of self-awareness and maybe a little empathy on her part. not gonna happen.

    3. Hagar7

      And because this is the year that the 2012 election stops being so theoretical, and Sarah wants to be president (even though being governor got boring, so she quit, and she apparently doesn't understand that being president is going to be a lot like being governor, although she'll get to be on TV more and say Dirty Harry-type things when Burkina Faso gets impertinent). Even Sarah probably understands that starting off the year by being connected to the gunning down of a well-liked, dedicated public servant is not a good start.

      1. ChessieNefercat

        Yeah, I think the little reptilian part of her brain (unlike the frontal cortex) sometimes functions adequately.

        So I predict that she will absolutely not appear in or on any venue at all, including Fox, where she might be asked questions about it. She will not address it all.

        She will cover it up with some other hyped up, made up issue that will require her endless yammerings via her one way fb and twatter accounts.

        Will our glorious media be mindful and aware of this tactic of distraction or will SQUIRREL?!

  51. SorosBot

    Fucking fuck. And yet the media will continue to claim that the only terrorists are brown Muslims and the teabaggers are all just peaceful protesters.

  52. tiger_tree

    Holy shit this post is a mess. I mean, I understand the information flying around doesn't exactly paint a coherent picture but maybe it's time to archive this post somewhere else (or delete it, whatever) and start over?

  53. ChessieNefercat

    Well where are you you fucking tweeting hateful lying vicious racist bitch? Well?

    Oh wait, whenever she is required to respond to some issue that didn't go her way, she just doesn't.

    Fucking cretinous coward. Oh by the way, you stupid beyond belief bitch, your stupid poster is aaaall over the internets. Taking it off your site doesn't make it go away.

    John McCain, roast in hell forevermore more listening to an eternity of endless loops of that poisonous viper you foisted onto this country.

    1. binarian

      and he was appointed by Bush the First. I wonder if the crazy ass gunman shot him 'cause he was a RINO? Or he was just at the wrong place at the wrong time. The fact that he was heard naming names as he squeezed the trigger makes me think the former.

  54. Guppy06

    Tomorrow, Eric Cantor will hold a press conference, announcing that he'd been shot in the head, too, but didn't make a big deal about it like the Democrats.

    1. Trinket

      This is so awful that I thought I had lost the ability to laugh out loud, but you just proved me wrong, Guppy. I scared the cat and everything! Thanks, man. I needed that.

    2. horsedreamer_1

      I mentioned Cantor's own FAKE brush with a FAKE shooting at his FAKE office in Richmond in his FAKE district on Politico comments, as evidence both sides do it. Surprisingly, no one took my bait.

  55. CapeClod

    Fucking bastards. This is no different from the acts perpetrated by the Brownshirts.
    No snark today. Any politician (or former politician turned d-list celebrity,) in the future who suggests violence as a political expedient has to pay a legal price for their actions or words.

    1. indecencycmdr

      it's so weak, her response. luckily, that crosshairs map is all over the interwebs and will never be erased.

  56. chascates

    From azcentral.com:
    Arizona law enforcement official say a gunman in the crowd shot Giffords, a 40-year-old Democrat, and a person in the crowd shot at the gunman. The Associated Press identified the gunman as Jared Laughner [22-year-old according to other sources].

    Six others have been killed and 18 wounded following the shooting at a Safeway in northwest Tucson at Ina and Oracle roads, according to Richard Kastigar of the Pima County Sheriff's Office.

  57. hagajim

    So li'l orange Johnny posted something about how outrageous it is that someone would shoot at a Congressman….he shouldn't be surprised, he and his ilk should be blamed. If you spend enough time preaching hatred and anger, eventually one of the crazies is likely to come out and shoot someone. Looking at the totality of this post I am surprised that it hasn't happened more and God help us if it continues.

  58. binarian

    Great. We're slowly turning into Iraq. Or Afghanistan. This is what happens when people who have zero idea what actual violence is hinting about "Second Amendment remedies" and similar drivel. Some crazy shithead picks up on it and convinces themselves it's ok. This is a sad, sad day for this country. Her poor family.

  59. Jukesgrrl

    News conference: Dr. says Giffords is critical. Neurosurgery already completed. Doctors are "optimistic" and she has "a good chance of recovery." They will know more after 24 hours. Names still not being released due to notification requirements. The person who died at the hospital was a 9-year-old girl, according to the doctor.

  60. comrad_darkness

    Update 8, best fucking news of the year. Bringing tears to my eyes.

    Hang tough, Gabby.

    Added: Update 9, Sincere condolences to Roll's family.

    It's tough to be a public official in banana republic.

    1. ChessieNefercat

      "It's tough to be a public official in banana republic. "
      Sad, but unfortunately, accurate assessment of where we are at in this country.

  61. weejee

    The doc say he very positive for recovery for Gabby given being shot in the head. One dead at the hospital – the child.

    So fucking sad, so very fucking sad.

  62. Limeylizzie

    At news conference the surgeon said she is following commands and he is as optimistic as can be , considering the injury,she received one shot through the head . So cautious optimism appears to be in order. One child died at hospital.

  63. SorosBot

    The sad thing us, the violence-inciting fuckers like Rush, Beck and Palin will probably get away with it; anyone who correctly pointed out that they were responsible for such tragedies as the Oklahoma City bombing, Eric Rudolph's wave of bombing abortion clinics and gay bars, and the assassination of Doctor Hiller has always been shouted down by the fucking cunts of the mainstream media for being "uncivil".

    1. hooray4anything

      Clinton's speech after the OKC bombing subtly called out Rush and all the other foaming mouths and had them on the defensive for awhile. The speech, obviously, didn't end all of it but it seemed to quash some of the crazy invective thrown his way. So they tried to impeach him instead

      1. horsedreamer_1

        Don't expect Obama even to get that close to calling out Rush. We must look forward, not back.

    2. GeoatBeck

      I think Van Jones, Piven and the like have instigated the left into performing these atrocities. The man was an atheist, Military rejected. Far left wing nut according to classmates. Once again the misinformed, uninformed and hate mongering left try to spin it. No Tea Party member has ever been arrested or committed an assault. I can point to countless assaults and arrests by the left. Why is that….

      1. SorosBot

        What does Van Jones, a good man who was pushed out of office after the right-wing media spread a bunch of lies about him, have to do with anything? Oh, and you are a lying moron. No Teabagger has ever committed an assault, really? What about the teabaggers who beat and nearly killed a woman from MoveOn.org outside a Rand Paul rally?

        And then you compound the lies with "I can point to countless assaults and arrests by the left". Name one, just one; and one that ACTUALLY HAPPENED, not made up. And that do your trolling on this thread, about six people murdered by a teabagger, is simply despicable.

  64. sati_demise

    Waiting for John McCains statement,
    fucking bloody hell
    he laughed off that poster like a angry jerk

    1. Jukesgrrl

      Local news says his family lives off Oldfather Rd. That's only 3-4 miles from site of shooting.

    2. facehead

      I watched all the videos, and have come to the following conclusions:

      – Jared has a criminal fetish for Modus Ponens and techno.

      – Jared is not Neilist

      – Everything is unconstitutional.

      – Grammar mind control government community college sucks.

    3. FlyOverGirl

      And a jackhole over on Facebook is claiming Jared is a lefty based on the YouTube channel.

      I hate people.

      From http://www.facebook.com/#!/GGiffords/posts/178742

      #Samantha Stephens — The crazy that shot Rep. Giffords was a Left Wing Anarchist:
      Find Jarred Loughner's craziness on You Tube- HE IS NOT Tea Party.
      He is a Lefty Anarchist:
      http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10
      about an hour ago · ·

      #Samantha Stephens — His favorite books include Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto.

      1. horsedreamer_1

        His favorite books include Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto.

        This just makes him confused.

      2. Hagar7

        The fact that Samantha Stephens looked at that mishmash of a booklist and felt that she could declare with all certainty that he's a "lefty anarchist" merely tells us what her own political leanings are.

        It also tells us that she's stupider than a bag of stupidity thrown into the River Stupid at Stupid-on-the-Thames.

  65. kenlayisalive

    "This is time for the country to come together" they'll say. "Forget that we've been talking about second amendment remedies and that we've been using violent political rhetoric", they'll say. "She was a republican" they'll say. "We need to give the FBI more power", they'll say. "This is the result of Obama's divisive healthcare policy", they'll say.

    Lying, violence inciting asshole right-wing Republicans and the weak-kneed centrists who keep their mouths shut about it.

    Fuck.

  66. chascates

    From a poster on FoxNation.com:
    I held my nose and looked on the huffington post to see what the communists were saying. From the NYT:
    "Her father Spencer Giffords, 75, wept when asked if his 40-year-old daughter had any enemies. "Yeah," he told The Post. "The whole tea party."

    That's pretty communist all right.

  67. GregComlish

    Whoa, whoa, whoa, let's not rush to judgement. Reports claim that apparently the gunman was privy to some very disturbing information regarding Obama's birth certificate.

  68. CuriouslyCarved

    Now's the time to start pressuring companies to end their sponsorship of the professional haters. If it's true that advertising works, or media can sway public opinion, then it must be admitted that media-borne messages of hate and violence will eventually lead to actual hate and violence. It's a miracle that the lid stayed on until today.

  69. PresBeeblebrox

    This is absolutely horrible, but is anyone surprised that this happened in a state where political capital is gained by things like putting pink-underwear-clad prisoners in literal concentration camps and demonising Browns?

    I see shit like this and I think that the Russian political scientist who predicted that the US would break up by 2010 wasn't too far off the mark. We have state legislatures doing weird stuff like forbidding Sharia law (as if it would ever be used outside a mosk), encouraging the minting of their own money, demanding Presidential candidates' birth certificates, and even suggesting that multistate compacts could be formed to nullify Federal law – what the fuck, this is like 1860 all over again.

    Oh yeah, there's still a Federal Death Penalty for killing Federal judges and Congresspersons. The shooter will surely end up watering the tree of liberty along with Timmy McVeigh one day.

    In summary: Fuck all of those fucking motherfuckers. Palin, Brewer, Walnuts, Boner, Limpballs, Hannity, Beck, Malkin, Coulter, Ingraham, Savage. Fuck them all. Go start your own fucking nation in the desert along with all the sun-crisped Olds if you hate the rest of us so fucking much.

    1. Hagar7

      Caveat: by the following, I am not taking a position on the morality of the death penalty. That said (assuming that an insanity defense fails), Jared Lee will water the tree of liberty that much sooner if this is handled as an AZ state prosecution instead of handed over to the U.S. Attorney in Tucson, because a halfway decent lawyer can keep the Feds mired in appeals for decades. In contrast, Arizona has something of an express lane for capital cases.

      THAT said, when you commit the felony murder of the Chief Judge of a federal district court while trying to assassinate a U.S. Congressperson while she was in her Congressional district, I don't know who ends up prosecuting your sorry ass.

  70. stew1

    "Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ), who was shot Saturday during a public event in Tucson, was among 20 other members of Congress who were on a so-called hit list published by former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin."

    Sarah, you fucking pig!

  71. MadBrahms

    I am absolutely at a loss for words; I sincerely hope that Wiegel / Espinoza is wrong about the whole "names being called' thing, because I want to (but don't) believe that this was a random act of rage rather than something so premeditated.

    Let this be a wakeup call to the GOP about their tea party allies: be careful who you align yourself with and what sort of rhetoric you endorse, as it will haunt you. And it may kill.

    1. finallyhappy

      How could it be a random act of rage? This was a speaking engagement by the Congresswoman-although it may be that the names the murderer called were not the ones of the people he shot.

  72. comrad_darkness

    Oh, all the whining about jumping to political conclusions over at Sarah's FB. How about a little trip down memory lane from before it was revealed Shaun Christy was an NRA member bible thumper:

    "But what did Team Sarah have to say about it? Here’s our pal Simon Roth:

    Absolutely horrible. Unfortunately left-wingers, because they generally lack moral restraint, are more driven to go through with calculated acts like this than conservative nut-jobs are.

    The name Lee Harvey Oswald comes to mind."

    I got your lack of moral restraint right here, brownshirting b*tch.

        1. hooray4anything

          That sorta was sarcasm and a joke. Much like the idea Lee Harvey Oswald was a left-wing nut job. Unless it was LBJ who ordered than it, yes, it could be said he was killed by a liberal.

          1. Neilist

            How DARE you IMPLY that Lee Harvey Oswald was a left-wing nut job.

            Just because his Marine buddies called him "Lenin"; he studied Russian; he tried to defect to the Soviet Union; lived there and married a Russian wife; came back to the US and worked for the Fair Play for Cuba Committee?

            My God, man: Those are the qualifications for Right Wingnuts!!!!!

            [Jesus H. Christ. You're not even TRYING to make sense.]

          2. hooray4anything

            Neilist, it was always my understanding that Oswald's politcal leanings were murky as he started turning anti-Castro and anti-Communist towards '63. According to Wikipedia, that's not necessarily true, although he did hang out with a lot of them in New Orleans. If you buy into the conspiracy theories, though, it was the anti-Castro-ites (with the CIA) who set the assassination in motion. Also, it wouldn't make that much sense for a pro-Conmie crazy person to shoot a Democratic President who, while certainly no commie-lover, was less so than others.

            Regardless, to call Oswald some lefty-loon seems a stretch

          3. Neilist

            No, no, you're quite right. But you didn't go far enough in your analysis.

            The fact that Oswald attempted to assassinate RightWingNut Bircher General Walker before he went after JFK is PROOF POSITIVE that Oswald was a RightWingNut, because only a RightWingNut would try to kill another RightWin . . . .

            Hold on. I think I lost your chain of reasoning. Let me try again.

            Oswald's attempt to assassinate Walker was PROOF POSITIVE that Oswald was NOT a LeftWing Loonie, because only a non-LeftWing Loonie wou . . . .

            Whoops. Lost it again. Hmmm. Let me try it this way:

            Oswald's assassination of JKF, the man who ordered the Bay of Pigs Invasion and who was trying to assassinate Castro is PROOF POSITIVE that Oswald was a RightWingNut, because ONLY a RightWingNut would attempt to protect a Communist dicta . . . .

            Hmmm.

            I'm a bit confused. Can you explain your reasoning again? The facts seem to keep getting in the way of your theory . . . .

            [Bad facts! BAD!]

          4. hooray4anything

            What I'm trying to say is that nobody really knows what Oswald was doing or what he believed because he got shot too quickly to know and his motivations too murky. It's also hard to know because there's way too many stories out there about the whole thing but most of them do tend towards the JFK being killed as a result of him being blamed for allowing Castro to take over Cuba, whether it be the mob, anti-Castro-ites, or the CIA. None of those three could be considered lefty.

            So, in other words, calling Oswald one thing or another is silly because nobody knows and if there is a meme out there saying he was some crazy-ass liberal, then it shows just how desperate some people are to twist history into their weird little worldviews but facts are stubborn little things.

    1. fuflans

      simon, please list those left wing assassinations of which you speak? cause i'm pretty up the news and can't think of any recent ones.

      assassinations in this country in the last 30 years have been right wing christian nutjobs, right wing islamic nutjobs and random troubled students.

      1. SorosBot

        There's none that I can think of since the guy who killed McKinley, 110 years ago. Hell, the guy who shot the single right-winger who was the victim of an assassination attempt in the wave of assassinations of left-wing figures in the 60s and 70s turned out to be a nutcase who just wanted to assassinate somebody important so he would become famous; and likewise Hinkley was just an insane stalker.

  73. Jukesgrrl

    U of A basketball game scheduled for today has been canceled. That's as serious as shit gets here in Tucson.

  74. luke_warm

    It's in his second video where he talks about the constitution and "apprehending" the current slate of treasonous laws. But yeah, he's batshit.

  75. PresBeeblebrox

    The judge who was assassinated was Chief Judge John Roll of the U.S. District Court for the District of Arizona. He had received death threats in the past from … guess! … talk-show listeners because he allowed a lawsuit by undocumented immigrants to go past summary judgment, and god help you if you do anything good for a Brown.

    So now we have not only had an attack on a Congresswoman (probably) because of her political affiliation but also a literal attack on judicial independence.

    In February, when U.S. District Judge John Roll presided over a $32 million civil-rights lawsuit filed by illegal immigrants against an Arizona rancher, the Marshals Service was anticipating the fallout.

    When Roll ruled the case could go forward, [Arizona U.S. Marshal] Gonzales said talk-radio shows cranked up the controversy and spurred audiences into making threats.

    In one afternoon, Roll logged more than 200 phone calls. Callers threatened the judge and his family. They posted personal information about Roll online.

    "They said, 'We should kill him. He should be dead,' " Gonzales said.

    Roll, who is the chief federal judge in Arizona, said both he and his wife were given a protection detail for about a month.

    "It was unnerving and invasive. . . . By its nature it has to be," Roll said, adding that they were encouraged to live their lives as normally as possible. "It was handled very professionally by the Marshals Service."

    At the end of the month, Roll said four key men had been identified as threat makers.

    The Marshals Service left to him the decision to press charges but recommended against it. Roll said he had no qualms about following their advice.

  76. AZ_Transplant

    I worked in her office last year. I only met her a few times, but she she was always really genuine and kind. I hope she pulls through.

    1. Jukesgrrl

      It's not a particularly common name, is it? Photo must be from 2010 festival, since the 2011 one is not scheduled until March.

  77. EdFlintstone

    Sarah save your bullshit sympathy post on fucking facebook. Feigning sympathy for a a member of congress, shot in the head, after putting crosshairs on the same person doesn't pass the laugh test. Go to fucking hell, you fucking cunt.

    1. fuflans

      yeah, i read the postings by palin, cantor, boehner, et alia and all i could think was 'sorry, right wing assholes, you don't get to be nice'.

      we can't have nice things because of you. we can't have civil discourse, a 20th c. health care system, a progressive tax policy, an informed population, hell a VIABLE OPPOSITION PARTY.

      so no, you don't fucking to get be nice.

    2. mrblifil

      Stick a fork in her, she's done. She gambled big and lost. And woe betide her if Giffords survives and is able to communicate cogently.

  78. comrad_darkness

    Guys, guys, guys, Palin, Limpballs, Beck, rabid AZ talk radio, they aren't responsible.

    They are Republicans and are never responsible for anything.

  79. neiltheblaze

    There's three of them possibly – if so, that's a conspiracy charge. They killed a federal judge and possibly mortally wounded a member of Congress. This is going Federal.

    I hope these fucks enjoy their interviews with the Feds. At least it won't be in Brewer's gnarled, incompetent hands. We should send them to Guantanamo as "enemy combatants".

  80. Rarian Rakista

    Craziness he posted on a girl's Myspace page

    " =| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L1lsLU-kUw
    If there's no flag in the constitution then the flag in the film is unknown.
    There's no flag in the constitution.
    Therefore, the flag in the film is unknown.
    Burn every new and old flag that you see.
    Burn your flag!
    I bet you can imagine this in your mind with a faster speed.
    Watch this protest in reverse!
    Ask the local police; "What's your illegal activity on duty?".
    If you protest the government then there's a new government from protesting.
    There's not a new government from protesting.
    Thus, you aren't protesting the government.
    There's something important in this video: There's no communication to anyone in this location.
    You shouldn't be afraid of the stars.
    There's a new bird on my right shoulder. The beak is two feet and lime green. The rarest bird on earth, there's no feathers, but small grey scales all over the body. It's with one large red eye with a light blue iris. The bird feet are the same as a woodpecker. This new bird and there's only one, the gender is not female or male. The wings of this bird are beautiful; 3 feet wide with the shape of a bald eagle that you could die for. If you can see this bird then you will understand. You think this bird is able to chat about a government?
    I want you to imagine a comet or meteoroid coming through the atmosphere.
    On the other hand, welcome yourself to the desert: Maybe your ability to protest is from the brainwash of the current government "

  81. kenlayisalive

    22 years old. How many older "friends" and "role models" you think egged him on politically? Took him out shooting in the desert? They need to go through that kid's life with a fine toothed comb and see who has been talking to him about politics and what groups he is involved in.

    No 22 year old comes up with this shit without tons of brainwashing. This isn't shooting your classmates who've been calling you a faggot since kindergarten. This is willful, premeditated, political violence.

    Banana Republic isn't just a store at the mall anymore.

    1. horsedreamer_1

      Very few (if any) of the school shooters have been bullied. Quite a few, in fact, would better be classified as bullies.

      Just looking at the reasons for the It Gets Better campaign, too, if you've suffered being called a faggot, you're as likely to kill yourself before harming anyone else.

      1. sati_demise

        All of them had taken some sort of anti depressants like prozac. not good for developing brains obvsly

        1. horsedreamer_1

          I would contend the largest problem in giving antidepressants to kids is it's treated as a magic bullet: give them the 'Zac, & they'll be all better. But without structure elsewhere, in the home, schools, without parents parenting, it does no good. It's being a vegan, but then doing rails every weekend.

    2. kenlayisalive

      You're right. That was my ham-handed way of pointing out the difference between a act coming out of one's personal emotions and one coming of cold blooded, calculated, political murder.

    3. tabouley

      I am sure he had many fine role models, just like John Salvi 3rd.
      These stupid right-wing sites are complaining that "communist" sites are stepping right up and blaming the Tea Party. In the meantime, these folks, each of them obviously an untutored Sherlock Holmes, have already figured out that the shooter was Hispanic, (insert irony here, considering the judge was seen as being sympathetic to Hispanics), Muslim, and definitely a left-winger because one of his favorite books was Mein Kampf. Seriously. http://honeytrail.wordpress.com/2011/01/08/breaki
      Note the person who was wondering what kind of a book "The Republic" was.

  82. Rotundo_

    We've been on a path to third world conditions for 30 years, we just took a big slide further today. This is the sort of thing that happens when ill educated, desperate and stupid people are boxed in economically and egged on by opportunistic groups that use them to do battle by proxy for profit. Arizona is more on the fringe than most states, but before we all start patting ourselves on the back here gang, it could have happened anywhere. I still hope we might get out of fan the crackers and divide and conquer mode, but it seems to be working quite well for the wealthy few and their servants.

  83. fuflans

    here's a question for you fox / right wing / politicians who've harnassed the crazy for cheap politcal gain:

    what are the odds it WASN'T a conservative nutjob?

  84. user-of-owls

    sent this in as a tip, but you never know. this was the single line comment on…wait for it!…fox news' story about the shooting. probably scrubbed, but a gut wrenching indication of the gleeful fulfillment of palin-inspired murder. it's an update of her "target" graphic with blood streaming from giffords' crosshair
    http://oi55.tinypic.com/2s7yn8j.jpg

  85. jjb3rd

    I'm thinking that new currency he's talking about will be cigarettes and ass-rape in a federal prison.

  86. chascates

    All the usual suspects have a rote Twitter reply:
    GovMikeHuckabee–Please join Janet and me in praying for Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords and all the victims of the tragic shooting in Arizona. 4 minutes ago via web

    newtgingrich–Please pray for Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords and every person shot in this tragic attack, as well as for their families. 1 minute ago via web

    MicheleBachmann–Rep. Giffords and all victims in today's shooting are in my prayers. Those responsible must be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. 4 minutes ago via Twitter for iPhone

    glennbeck–Worst night yet with neuropathy. Maybe 20 minutes sleep and not in a row. Upside? I watched Tania sleep all night. I love her. about 1 hour ago via Twitterrific

  87. baconzgood

    When will this maddness stop. Congresspeople gettting shot?, Stopping morons going to attack Acorn?, I'm from Pittsburgh and work not far from where that nut job shot the police (about 15 blocks)….Is this the kind of discourse. "We lose at the ballot box so let's talk about '2nd amendment remedies'". You know alot of people in PA didn't like Slick Rick Santorum but I've never heard of someone from the left saying "well since he was elected and I don't like him I'll shoot him"

  88. mrblifil

    Meanwhile, how fucked up is it that Wonkette is currently the best place to receive updates and cogent analysis. Oh, and prison buttsechs for the perp, please.

  89. Midway117

    Wonkette so far has the best coverage of this event. TV broadcast dinosaur networks showing sports.

    1. glamourdammerung

      There is a distinct advantage to the medium too though.

      It is much easier to edit a blog post than go back on a broadcast and say "oops, she is not dead", etc.

  90. DustBowlBlues

    I don't know, but what the fuck. I was watching mindless teevee, cooking and critiquing a fun book. Generally, forgetting politics for a minute. Then my husband ran in and told me the news.

    WTF? Thank you, Ken, for doing this. I know we give you guys a lot of shit, but, wtf, thank you. Best to be around friends. Liberal, NRA-hating friends.

    That fucking Jan Brewer doesn't even look sad. Is she happy that a seat will be open for a Republican? I hate that bitch.

  91. stew1

    "Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords was on Sarah Palin's infamous "crosshairs map," listing all the Representatives the former VP candidate wanted defeated in the midterm elections, RadarOnline.com can report."

    And Palin has the nerve to express her "shock".

      1. James Michael Curley

        Probably because she forgot where she stuck the flashlight the last time she was looking.

    1. EdFlintstone

      She was smiling half the time. Looked like her handler stepped in to get her away from the podium for fear she was going to look even worse than she already did if she continued.

  92. Jukesgrrl

    Gov. Brewer is on TV right now, dripping crocodile tears, talking about how she was such great friends with Gabby. She's calling this an "awful tragedy" and talking about it being so sad that we have to worry about "these things happening," and she's "concerned that those of us who are elected officials are targets." But of course nothing about how the gun laws in this state play a part. Put the flags at half mast and business as usual.

  93. Neilist

    :::Yawn:::

    Substitute the names John Lennon, Mark Chapman, and New York into the news stories.

    And you end up with yet-another example of how crazed, deranged and dangerous New Yorkers are.

    Too bad the killer didn't use an old Detroit manufactured van to run the victims over. That way you all could launch into Torrents of Outrage about how American cars should be outlawed; only Right Wingnuts drive American iron, etc., etc., etc.

    Wonkette: Demonstrating, yet again, that Once The Shit Starts Flying, The American Brain Moves Immediately To The "Off" Position.

    [Too soon?

    ASSHOLE. Right.]

    Neilist
    Waiting For The Relevant Information (e.g., type of weapon; shot grouping; loads).

    P.S. Is this going to cost me any "P Points"?

      1. LetUsBray

        Well, we've been treating him as our cute little pet right-wing gun nut all this time; whaddaya expect?

      2. Neilist

        Am I "proud of this comment"?

        Well, yes.

        It stands as a snarky comment about the hysteria, lack of rational analysis, ignorance of history, and just plain Liberalness that runs rampant among you people whenever this kind of thing happens.

        In that my comment – good or bad, polite or impolite — is completely consistent with the expressed ethos of this website (unlike all of your Boo-Hooing) . . . well, why wouldn't I be proud of it?

        If any of you ever want to have a rational discussion of gun control; the history of violence in America; the scientific fact that weakness tends to attract force and exploitation, both in politics and nature, well . . . don't bother me, as none of you have demonstrated the intellectual capability, lack of emotionalism, and historical knowledge to do so.

        Although it's amusing to watch you flounder around when you try.

        I'm just glad that all those American Indians; and Nat Turner and Demark Vesey; and all those Juden and Communists in Germany; the Zulus in Natal; etc., etc., etc. didn't have guns. While "we" DID . . . .

        And the idea of an "Armed Liberal"? Dear God, now there's something REALLY frightening.

        [You people have GOT to stop blocking punches with your faces. My hands are getting sore again.]

        P.S. Benazir Bhutto? Still DEAD.

        1. sati_demise

          Good idea for all our soldiers to have a semi-automatic weapon when they come stateside, with no jobs, crap mental health care, and lots of illegal drugs you can get without a doctors prescription.

          Maybe we could tax & regulate drugs, improve health services and try to license guns with a bit more scrutiny. Bet he got that gun at the Tucson gun shop'n'swap that has been arming the Mexican drug cartels thanks to the NRA loopholes.

          1. Neilist

            By God, this IS a wonderful country, isn't it?!?

            No, wait a minute. That may not be want you me . . . .

            Never mind.

        2. user-of-owls

          I've never responded to you before because I know your type. We all do. A pathetic small man who confuses attention with respect. So why don't you do humanity a favor and give one of your precious guns a blow job. Make sure to twitch your trigger finger when you ejaculate.

          I think Limey Lizzie has a pet word for you.

        3. snoopyfan2010

          "the scientific fact that weakness tends to attract force and exploitation, both in politics and nature, well . . ."
          It's a religious fact too. After all Jesus never used force against his enemies.

    1. savethispatient

      The TV reported a semi-automatic weapon with an extended magazine. Not that that really means anything to me.

      I've not seen whether or not the weapon was legally or illegally owned. Of course, I come from a country that has banned all handguns; our crazy people just stab our MPs. And that was for the Iraq war, not "new currency".

      As for the P points, yeah, probably.

      1. Neilist

        On the Glock, the extended magazine can vary from an over 10 round mag (all you can have in California) to the factory standard (15 to 17 on the full size models) to "after market" extended magazines that can hold 30 or more rounds.

        There even are several "drum feed" widgets that you can use with the Glock that can give you 75 rounds or more. They are stupid, even dangerous, in a Real Life situation due to the danger of malfunction. But you can buy them in some jurisdictions (including, I think, the Copper State).

        1. sati_demise

          Why should anyone be able to buy one without a special license and training and psych screening?

    2. binarian

      Well, it was a Glock 9mm, as had been stated. With an extended clip. Which no one needs unless you're out to kill people. Lots of people. I have guns, too, but strictly for target shooting or hunting. The average American has no need for, and probably can't be trusted with, automatic weapons, extended clips, and so forth. As you would know if you had ever been in the business of carrying weapons for a living (policeman, military, and so forth). Try not getting any more stupid juice on us please.

      1. Neilist

        1. The Glock is not an "automatic weapon," other than the Glock 18, which is not sold to civilians in this country. It's a semi-automatic. Score "1" for your ignorance.

        2. "Extended magazine," like "assault rifle," covers a wide variety of magazines. See above. Some of them are for sport/fun; and most are impracticable, and/or dangerous, to use in Real Life. Which you would have realized if you had any real knowledge of firearms — which you clearly don't.

        3. A re-fill on that glass of "Stupid Juice," sir? Or have you had enough? (Remember what the NRA says: Stupid Juice and Firearms Don't Mix!"

        1. binarian

          I never said I thought it was an automatic weapon. My automatic weapon mention was a more general comment. And I had multiple tours in the military so I think I know what I'm talking about. Stupid Juice was meant as in "How stupid are you to come on here and say this shit here today". And go fuck yourself. And I mean that in the kindest possible way.

        2. sati_demise

          So, not automatic but he could get off 20 rounds in less than a minute.
          Long enough to kill a 9 year old child.
          But the NRA refuses to say that Crazy and Firearms dont mix.

          1. Neilist

            Oh, heck, with the 17 round magazine in the Glock Model 17 (the full size 9 mm), a reasonably well practiced shooter should be able to get off 51 rounds in a minute (three magazines; two reloads).

            I've never tried it, only because (1) 9 mms are for girls; and (2) it's a waste of ammo.

            But if you're shooting 9-year-olds, from close range, the 9 mm round might do a through-and-through, such that you could hit a couple of the little buggers with the same bullet.

            And "Crazy and Firearms" = Hunter S. Thompson, doesn't it?

            Or do Liberal only like to read about stuff like that?

            Neilist
            Just Outside of Barstow, On The Edge Of The Desert, Waiting For The Drugs To Take Hold . . .

      1. Neilist

        I Exist To Serve.

        Ideally, winged game, e.g., wild duck, pheasants, quail.

        "If It Flies, It Dies. If It Hops, It Drops!"

        P.s. I have some squirrel recipes, too. For when all you cubical farm commandos get laid off, and the rat population around the dumpster gets thinned out.

    3. PuckStopsHere

      Nice how you can ignore the plain language of the US Constitution: Well. Regulated. Militia.

      1. Neilist

        How nice you can ignore recent controlling United States Supreme Court case precedent, e.g., District of Columbia v. Heller; McDonald v. City of Chicago.

        But I keep forgetting: The Second Amendment means what you Liberal Pinko Communist SKUM "feel" or "want" or "dream" it to mean, rather than what the Highest Court in the land says it does.

        And if you don't agree with the Supreme Court's analysis and holding, why, it's WRONG!!!!!!!

        Silly, silly me. Let's run the country YOUR way. We'll call the resulting form of government . . . ::::hmmm:: . . . how does Complete Chaos sound to you?

        Puck. Stops. Here.

        P.S. Miranda? Wrong. Sound be ignored.

        Brown v. Board of Education? Wrong. Get those blacks out of "our" schools.

        Roe v. Wade? WRONG, WRONG, WRONG! Ladies, back to the coathangers!!!!

        1. PuckStopsHere

          SCOTUS is fucking infallible, yes. It has never made and never will make a mistake because it is incapable of so doing. Overturning precedent has never happened and will never happen because of that infallibility. I'm sorry. Bush v Gore and Citizens United threw me for a moment because each so closely resembles bad law. But, you're correct. This simply cannot be. Thanks for helping me regain my footing.

          1. Neilist

            No, no, I get your point. You, with all of your knowledge of U.S. constitutional law, American history, and what is Right and Moral, are the sole and only arbitrator of the meaning of the United States Constitution, including the Second Amendment.

            What you say goes, and the SCOTUS, because it is not "infallible," should be ignored by All Right-Thinking Americans.

            :::Snicker:::

            No, no, seriously. Good luck with your government.

            Oh, and tell Sir Thomas More to Ye Olde Fuckque Off, would you, Mr. Roper?:

            William Roper: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!

            Sir Thomas More: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?

            William Roper: Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!

            Sir Thomas More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!

            [But then, you get to give Ye Olde English Fuckque to a young Susannah York. So being a Constitutional Nitwit has some benefit . . . . ]

          2. PuckStopsHere

            You disappoint. You bring up motor vehicles in a discussion of gun violence. Jesus, specious much? But, since you did, for Christ's sake you have to take a class and pass a test to drive a car because in untrained hands cars and trucks are dangerous.

            A Glock, meh, not so much.

            We shoulda fixed this little problem after Oswald shot Kennedy with a 20-dollar rifle. Instead, continue to let the insane own and use firearms and you are ok with that. Let freedom ring.

        2. sati_demise

          This guy may have Az. Militia creds. That does not mean what you think it means. They are skinheads, neo Nazis, and criminals who say they want to protect the border but really just want to kill brown people.

          1. Neilist

            "but really just want to kill brown people. . . . "

            But you say that as if it's a Bad Thing — when it's the Definition of The Foreign Policy of the Obama Administration.

            (Brown. Black. Yellow. Whatever. Secretary Gates will kill them all for Our President Hopey, and for his Wall Street Friends.)

        1. Neilist

          "People tend to ignore things they don't want to hear. "

          You're repeating the Basis of American Liberalism why, precisely?

  94. Pragmatist2

    What good is the First Amendment if you can't incite people to murder?
    What good is the 2nd Amendment if you can't murder people if you think that's a good idea?
    What good is the 3rd Amendment if absolutely no one has any idea what it says?
    Tjis message brought to you by your friends at the tea Party.

    1. Makemyownchoice

      Telling someone to do something in no way forces them to.

      2nd Amendment does not protect murderers.

      3rd keeps soldiers from living in your house aginst your will in peacetime. I don't see why you brought that up though.

      -I support MOST of what the tea party stands for and I haven't heard anything from them remotely close to what your saying

      1. Pragmatist2

        I suppose it is possible tat you are naive enough not to understand that this is satire. That would explain why you claim to support the positions of a group that has no positions – only anger because the world did not turn out the way they wanted.
        Some free advice – think for yourself and work hard at it.

        1. Makemyownchoice

          I apologize, it is difficult to pick up tone through quick texts on the internet. I do not support everything from the tea party, but I disagree that they have no positions. Perhaps you should look harder into what positions people who relate to the tea party have. For starters, govt spending within means and govt out of personal choices….not to far from what I hear on from the left.

          I do think for myself thank you.

          Your free advice is worth what I paid for it.

          1. Pragmatist2

            Apology accepted.
            "living within your means" is not a position. It is a truism. We all believe in it.
            The difficulty is that it requires hard choices. The Tea Party advocates lower taxes and deficit reduction and offers only trivial program cuts. That is a Free Lunch and mathematically impossible. Grown ups know we have to cut programs and apply modest tax increases on those (like myself) who make more large amounts of disposable income. Thinking .a little deeper remains sound advice.
            Have a good life.

  95. SorosBot

    Now that it looks like Giffords is going to survive, I just really hope her brain is mostly OK. She was shot in the head, and I'm reminded of a good friend who was run over by a car and suffered intense brain damage; and while initially everyone was hoping that she'd live and happy that she did, after she ended up basically having the mental power of a toddler, now I think she may have been better off if she hadn't survived.

    1. DustBowlBlues

      And that's why I love the wonket and the wonkeratti. Only gallows humor helps at a time like this. Imagine we are all holding hands and singing Kumbaya (except for me because, as a song, it fucking sucks) and giving each other warm fuzzies.

      Sorry. It didn't work for me, either.

    2. horsedreamer_1

      But Gabrielle Giffords is a Jew.

      & that has me wondering, why hasn't Abe Foxman come out to condemn this obviously anti-Semitic act?

      … Opa! Sorry Gabrielle. Guess you should have been in the thrall of Likud. You've done fucked up real good.

  96. Pragmatist2

    Tin soldiers and Nixon coming
    We're finally on our own
    This summer I hear the drumming
    Four dead in Ohio

  97. chascates

    And it's only a matter of time before someone posts:
    "Of course she survived; she was a Democrat who was shot in the brain."

    Nothing from John McCain yet. He's leading a Congressional delegation to South America.

    1. Neilist

      Actually, I posted that already. But I used "Liberal" instead of "Democrat."

      We can't forget that, before 1860, the Democrats were a Noble Party of Ideals And Principles.

      Including preserving the constitutional protections for the Particular Institution . . . .

  98. imissopus

    Learning about evils like mind control through grammar usage and slavery through traffic stops is the reason I keep coming back to Wonkette.

  99. stew1

    As much as I loathe the scumbag Palin, it was Walnuts who brought her out of obscurity and threw her worthless ass on us so fuck him too.

  100. Neilist

    :::Yawn:::

    Well, this has all been very amusing. But I have to get back to work on this brief.

    Also, I have to try to fit in my re-qualifying shoot, ideally, tomorrow. Nothing says American Protestant Christianity like a day at the gun range, ya know?

    Even for us Ex-Irish Catholics.

      1. Neilist

        A word of advice? On the technical, rhetorical level?

        When you get clubbed down verbally, like a gay baby harp seal, and have nothing clever to say in response, the better course is to just slink away, and hope no one notices.

        When you come back with ad hominem attacks — particularly attempts to be cute with alliteration, etc. — you just highlight your stupidity.

        But either way: Better luck next time! And thank you for playing our game.

        1. binarian

          You really are an asshole. I mean really, we've just had a national tragedy, and you have the gall to come here and spout silly nonsense how stupid we are to be upset? Fuck off and die.

          1. Neilist

            "Fuck off and die."

            Obscenity: The Last Refuge of the Unintelligent, Uneducated, And Unenlightened.

            Oh, and . . . YOUR MAMA!!!!!

        2. lulzmonger

          *LOL CLUELESS*

          Thinking Wonkette = some Roberts' Rules Of Order anally-clenched debating club: this is why you have failed so hard so much here.

          Enjoy your deletion.

    1. Limeylizzie

      What the fuck is wrong with you? You dozy cunt, don't you realise that outside of the snark and sarcasm and smart-alecky behaviour on Wonkette, the thing that resonates on this strange and wonderful little site that we all love , is a resounding sense of humanity and if you have none then best stay away.

      1. jodyleek

        What she said! Neilist, shut your muzzle and go back to spooning your Charleton Heston cutout.

  101. HurricaneAli

    I cannot be snarky at this time. My greatest sympathies and prayers with the victims and families, especially Congresswoman Gifford's new family in this time of great trial and unimaginable sadness.

  102. valgal2342

    Where is Walnuts? Still trying to build a dang fence? The Tee Vee camera hog is AWOL for now.

  103. snoopyfan2010

    The birds falling from the sky must have been an omen that the crazy was going to get worse. I think I heard that in an old Navajo saying. "Black birds fall, White man, crazy all"

  104. Rarian Rakista

    Myspace Qoute before yanked

    "Classitup10 writes –> Hello, and welcome my classified leak of information that's of the United States Military to the student body and you. Firstly, I want you to understand this from the start. Did you know grammar is double blind, listener? Secondly, if you want to understand the start of revelatory thoughts then listen to this video. I'll look at you mother fuckin Anarchists who have a problem with them illegal illiterate pigs. :-D If you're a citizen in the United States as of now, then your constitution is the United States. You're a citizen in the United States as of now. Thus, your constitution is the United States. Laugh. I'll let you in on their little cruel joke that's genocidal. They're argument is appeal to force on their jurisdiction with lack of proof of evidence. Each subject is in question for the location! The police don't quite get paid correctly with them dirty front runners under section 10? Their country's alliances are able to make illegal trades under section 10. Eh! I'm a Nihilist, not someone who put who put trust in god! What is section 10 you ask? If you make a purchase then it's illegal under section 10 and amendment 1 of the United States constitution. You make a purchase. Therefore, it's illegal under section 10 and amendment 1 of the United States constitution. We need a drum roll for those front runners in the election; those illegal teachers, pigs, and politicians of yours are under illegal authority of their constitution. Those dirty pigs think they know the damn year. Thirdly, tell them mother fuckers to count from 0 to whenever they feel a threat to stop their count. We can all hope they add new numbers and letters to their count down. Did you run out of breath around the trillions, listener? Well, B.C.E is yet to start for Ad to begin! What does this mean for a citizen in any country? Those illegal military personal are able to sign into a country that they can't find with an impossible date! How did you trust your child with them fraud teachers and front runners, listener? Did you now know that the teachers, pigs, and front runners are treasonous! You shouldn't jump to conclusion with your education plan. The constitution as of now, which is in use by the current power pigs, aren't able to protect the bill of rights! Do you now have enough information to know the two wars are illegal! What is your date of time, listener? Fourthly, those applications that are with background checks break the United States constitution! What's your riot name? I'll catch you! Top secret: Why don't people control the money system? Their Current Currency(1/1) / Your new infinite currency (1/~infinte) This is a selcte information of revoluntary thoughts! Section 10 – Powers prohibited of States No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility. No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Controul of the Congress. No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay. Each subject is unlocatible!"

  105. imissopus

    When guns become mentally ill, only the mentally ill will have guns. Or something.

    And Neilist, Jesus H. Christ man, give it a rest for one day.

    1. Neilist

      Well, three days. Then I rise from the dead, and start all over again.

      But seriously: Snark only counts in the heat of the moment. It's like having the right line of Shakespeare to quote, immediately before or after bloodshed.

      Keep working on it, and try to keep up with the changes.

        1. Neilist

          You have . . . "ambition"?

          The Mind Reels . . . .

          But you should be made of sterner stuff . . . .

          [Reference probably wasted, but I keep throwing these pearls before swine regardless . . . .]

    1. Neilist

      HOORAY! HOORAY! HOORAY!

      Freedom reigns!

      HIP HIP!

      Once again, the Tree of Liberty has been Refreshed With The Blood of Patriots!

      [As a certain red-haired, slave-bopping, rifle-toting Founding Father once wrote . . . .]

  106. undeadgoat

    I would just like to take this juncture to point out that in the midterms just passed, only 53% of voters voted for a Republican congressperson, with a whopping like 4% Libertarian, aka totally disgusted with the crazies. And somehow they are probably going to be quite successful in making all the college-educated white Democratic voters think, "Wouldn't it be nice to live someplace where I can take my child to see her congressperson without being in fear for our lives?" And then New York City and Portland OR and Madison WI will be just that much more liberal, and the Democrats in rural districts will continue to rush to the center until they alienate their base, awful vicious cycles, defections to the Republicans, etc.

    I am not saying that electoral reform will stop shootings, just that it would be much harder to pretend that the crazies hold an actual majority in a more representative electoral system, and people thinking that a woman like that, because she disagrees with them on one or two issues, is in any way their enemy–from what I see, I might be hesitant on voting for her if I was a constituent because she's so centrist, but then again I have a lesbian congresswoman and don't live in Arizona, but she seems like a stand-up woman who votes her conscience and keeps her constituents in mind.

    Or at least she was, I didn't go to school in brains but I am pretty sure that there is no way she won't be affected, in personality or in some sort of physical way, by a wound like that in some way or other, at the very least she will probably be in rehab or something after she is physically stabilized.

  107. Troubledog

    None of this matters. The wingnuts will spin this and distance themselves from this whackjob.

    Earlier today, Breitbart was calling out Markos on Twitter, warning Markos not to make this political. He said Markos would regret the backlash. It was very ominous.

    Despite Breitbart's call for calm and non-politicalization of this tragedy, the lead story at breitbart.com is entitled: "Tuscon Shooter's 'Favorite' YouTube Video Shows Flag Burning"

    I can't fucking stand it.

    1. Sassomatic

      How exactly does one go about not politicizing a political assassination/attempt? It's like saying that a hurricane isn't about weather.

  108. Jukesgrrl

    A gentleman from the Tohono O'dom Nation was interviewed on Tucson TV this evening. He drove down from the Tucson area to pay his respects at Giffords HQ. But he also said he was on camera to pay his respects to Judge Roll. He reported he had worked with him on many occasions and that he had done great service for the Nation, especially helping them to address the drug problems within their community. The gentleman remarked that it seemed to him to be a "thankless task to be a jurist" today and he wanted to mention that Judge Roll was a man worthy of our respect. Thought that was a point of view worth mentioning.

    BTW, quite a few posts from pages 3 and beyond seem to be disappearing again this evening.

  109. GuyWithTheFace

    Jesus Christ. The comments section of the youtube video that was in that guy's favorites is a veritable hornet's nest of wingnuts. Not 1 hour after the vid became famous were there comments talking about BO's birth certificate and accusations of him being a muslim. You'd think they'd eventually come in contact with reality after having this shit debunked countless times, but no.

    I mean, I knew they could be crazy/stupid, but holy shit.

  110. pinkocommi

    The whole controversy about the use of crosshairs on Palin's campaign materials got me thinking about how, once upon a time, the Republican Party – at least theoretically – stood for personal responsibility. If this were still true, the Republican Party would laugh Palin all the way back to fucking Wasilla. What a scum bag Palin is. Once again, it makes me think there is no such thing as karma, because there is no way Ms. Giffords would be the one lying in a hospital bed in critical condition with a gunshot wound to the temple.

  111. gurukalehuru

    Maybe OT, maybe not, but I lay the blame in a different place, and propose a solution.
    Jared Loughner is apparently mentally ill. He was taught in American public schools. Therefore, a series of teachers and administrators failed to spot the problem, to address the problem or to solve the problem.
    Not blaming them, they're swamped.
    Here's my proposed solution: Massive investment in education (it's a jobs program), hire about double the number of teachers we have now, thus halving classroom size and giving all teachers a bit of psychological training in "spot the future psychopath" (Cruelty to animals, bullying or being bullied, psychopathic parents, isolation, I'm sure there are many more telltale signs)
    Also, perhaps, teach kids the difference between conscious and conscience.

    1. GeoatBeck

      Assuming the schools are dominated by the progressive left, it could just be indoctrination. This is what happens when you teach hate and revisionist history. We have given schools massive amounts of money and it has actually gotten worse. The money ends up going to the teachers and administration. I propose getting unions out of the education process and get rid of the Department of Education. The have failed us and we cannot compete globally.

  112. cmputrwizard

    But how could they not? It's all they've ever had (and the moolah from the corruption, of course).

    I've been saying it's time to take names and take action against the MSM liars who promote this kind of nonsense to the easily confused for a decade now (since the stealing of the 2000 election when the preachers of the dumb mobilized them to storm the polls for Dumbya).

    Too bad it seems to only work the other way round.

    Thanks for this. I can't stop crying but my political choices now seem to have been confirmed for all time. I will continue to report on the jackels who are feasting on the bleeding body of the US lower classes without mercy.

    Kudos on your coverage of this most important milestone.

    Sadly,

    Suzan

    Good to see they can scramble to stay on message!

    1. Makemyownchoice

      I'm sorry I missed where this became a class warfare issue. Where did you get the lower classes are the victims for this story?

    1. SorosBot

      Because it's not true. The target thing was from fucking Sarah Palin, moron; and describing someone encouraging a primary run in a diary that uses no violent rhetoric whatsoever as a "hit list" is reprehensible. Now please go fuck yourself.

        1. SorosBot

          What part of "go fuck yourself" do you not understand? You for some reason are throwing out irrelevant bullshit to try and deflect responsibility for this tragedy from the teabaggers who are responsible. From your profile I see you mostly post at Glenn Beck's and Brietbart's sites, so you are a piece of shit, and oh look you have personally tried to instigate violence against a good man just three days ago: "It is time we start implementing Obamacare death panels, I nominate Mr Soros as the first patient "

          Now go fuck yourself. Leave.

          1. les_gvt

            Please explain why it is irrelevant? I was offering a different opinion- don't liberals support diversity?

            I was doing nothing more than pointing out that threats had been made to her from both sides, and that the lft wing people tend to be more prevalent in carrying out those threats.

            I am sorry you are not mature enough to handle the adversity of diversity, and recommend you expand your vocabulary, to at least that of my 5 year old niece

            I would also question anyones mental status that adores a man that has destroyed 4 nations currency, and is currently attempting to destroy America. I do not agree with many of our Lawmakers, but at least they ar Americans. If Soros gets his way, wee will have people from Angola and
            Chad making our laws, I do not ant that, do you?

          2. SorosBot

            Except that: 1) there were no threats from the left; read that diary again, there was no violent language at all; and 2) huh, the "lft" [sic] wing people tend to be more prevalent in carrying out those threats"? What the fuck our you talking about? Every single assassination and terrorist attack in America in my lifetime has been carried out by someone who is either conservative or just nuts and apolitical. Really, can you name one?

          3. les_gvt

            not sure you are old enough to remember the Russian trained Lee Harvey Oswald

            9/11 was carried out by Muslim extremeist- If you look at the Shiria law they want to implement, you can not tell it apart from the Progressive doctrine

            Sirhan Sirhan was a leftist that considered Bobby to far right

            You really need to start learning your history

            Maggie Thatcher was attacked by a leftie also

          4. SorosBot

            What part of "in my lifetime" don't you understand? And anyway, no one knows what Oswald's politics and reasons for killing Kennedy were, or Sirhan Sirhan; and both their targets were liberals. And yeah, 9/11 was carried out by Muslim fundamentalists – right-wing extremists. Religious fundamentalism is a conservative doctrine, whatever the religion, idiot, and Sharia law is virtually identical to the laws the theocratic fundamentalist Christians in this country want to enact; the only difference is that they different names for their god.

            Meanwhile, the murderers of Martin Luther King, Medgar Evers, and a ton of other civil rights leaders were all conservative racist Southerners; and such anti-government terrorists as Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols, and anti-choice terrorists as Eric Rudolph and Scott Roeder, were all right-wingers. Learn your history, moron.

          5. les_gvt

            I said I did not know your age, and judging by the lack of verbal skills, and overall lack of knowledge and maturity level, I was pushing it in thinking you might be around 12-14 yrs old, so I did not want to tax you too much, however is Mc Veigh was while you were born, now I will guesstimate you are 15-16 so you may still learn something yet.

          6. SorosBot

            Sorry shithead; I'm 34, but it is ironic that you actually claim I should learn my history when you actually referred to Hitler as a liberal.

          7. mumbly_joe

            It's kinda rich that he's managed to so rapidly jump from "Hitler was a liberal" to "Liberals want to surrender to sharia law". Last time I checked, the Nazis' whole thing was militaristic pan-German nationalism, which is somewhat the opposite of surrendering to a foreign culture's religious laws.

            In fact, if I remember correctly, there were one or two ethnic groups in Germany at the time, whom Hitler and the Nazis accused of attempting to infiltrate and weaken German society, by introducing some "foreign" political system, not unlike some of the posts over on Atlas Srugs about Muslims. Kinda fuzzy on the specifics, though.

          8. SorosBot

            I find the "liberals want to surrender to sharia law" very amusing. Yeah, because liberals are well-known for our desire to ban abortion, treat women as property of their husbands or fathers, institute the death penalty for gay people, force everyone to conform to one religion, and re-ban alcohol.

            No, morons; what we do is not be racist and recognize that the one billion Muslims are different people and most are not terrorists, nor do they want to impose Sharia law, in fact many are fairly secular and ignore the stricter dictates of the religion and do things like eat pork, drink alcohol and fuck non-Muslims.

          9. glamourdammerung

            I said I did not know your age, and judging by the lack of verbal skills, and overall lack of knowledge and maturity level, I was pushing it in thinking you might be around 12-14 yrs old, so I did not want to tax you too much, however is Mc Veigh was while you were born, now I will guesstimate you are 15-16 so you may still learn something yet.

            Maybe you should figure out what a "sentence" is before you start insulting your betters.

          10. SorosBot

            Please, your average cockroach is smarter than a fucking moron who actually has the gall to claim the Nazis were liberal. What I want to know is: are stupid, and actually believe that outrageous lie, or are you just lying? Or both?

          11. glamourdammerung

            And yet we can write at an adult level. Since you have not managed to do that so far, that chip on your shoulder must really be bothering you.

          12. glamourdammerung

            Please explain why it is irrelevant? I was offering a different opinion- don't liberals support diversity?

            Because no one here cares about your opinion when facts contradict it.

          13. les_gvt

            No one on here bothered to get any facts before they started making accusations.

            I just pointd out the hate being directed towards her on a far left web site

            No one here bothered to find anything out about this kid, they just jumped to conclusions

          14. SorosBot

            Look above. You actually claimed the Nazis were left wing; since you hate facts, you have no right to claim that other people didn't bother to get facts.

            Oh, and guess what; as was was pointed out while dealing with one of the other trolls from that racist Breitbart's site (and what, does that piece of shit periodically order you guys to go and annoy us? And will he ever apologize for what he did to ACORN?) that conservative WordPress blogger ADDED THE BULLSEYE IMAGE to that Kos post; it was not in the original, that was a lie to help enable your bullshit false equivalency.

            Now kindly go fuck yourself.

  113. les_gvt

    Did anyone catch the post daily kos took down right after the shootings?

    Full post from the Kos:

    My CongressWOMAN voted against Nancy Pelosi! And is now DEAD to me!
    Share2 0
    by BoyBlue
    Thu Jan 06, 2011 at 11:07:17 AM PST
    I am from the Tucson area and live in Congresswoman, Gabrielle Giffords' district. I worked like a dog for her elections when she was in the Arizona House, surrounded by rightwing nutcases. When Arizona re-districted in 2002, a seat opened up and she was right smack in the middle of it. So was I because I live in Oro Valley, Arizona, which is at the heart of that – then – new CD. I was one of several people to talk her into running and pledging complete loyalty and pledging to raise as much money as possible for her.
    She ended up running for the first time against a fellow AZ House member, Randy Graf who was a rightwing whacko who advocated guns in bars and was the "Russell Pearce before Russell Pearce" vis-a-vis border issues. With a LOT of hard work and plenty of money, Gabby won. Easier than thought, too. I never like to throw money in people's faces, but i have given Gabrielle Giffords THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of dollars in both good times and bad times for me financially.
    BoyBlue's diary :: ::

    Fast forward to this election season. A weirdo asshole named Jesse Kelly who advocated ELIMINATING Social Security and was a tea bagger favorite got the GOP nom to run against her. I am gay and had been married and my spouse left me January 15, 2010. I shot myself in the mouth in a serious suicide attempt, because of that. Barely surviving, I spent two months in the hospital and still have some paralysis. I did receive a severance from my employer, as i had been laid off in December, 2009. That may have been part of the reason my spouse left me.
    Anyway, after months of physical and mental rehab, I got back into the political scene and started working for Gabby once again. I raised over $100,000 for her and maxed her out myself out of my severance, even though i still don't have work and could not qualify for state aid because of my severance.
    She wins her re-election and told me she was still a supporter of Speaker Pelosi at her victory party. We talked about how Nancy Pelosi was a successful woman and accomplished oh so much in just four years as Speaker.
    Today, just a little while ago, I saw on Andrea Mitchell Reports (out of the one eye in can still see out of) that Giffords voted AGAINST Nancy Pelosi as our Minority Leader. Rhetorical question: I fought back from my condition and jumped in with both feet to help Gabrielle Giffords for THIS shit???
    Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords is dead to me now. I won't lift a finger, make one phone call, nor will i EVER vote for her in the future. And why did she do this? Giffords never told me she was conservative Democrat. And her voting record is okay. Damn.
    Tags: leadership elections, 2010, Gabrielle, Giffords (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

    1. gvvt

      Gosh, he's an asshole, too. Who'd a thunk it. Maybe EVERYBODY ought to stop pretending that their political views are so wondrously radiant and pure.

    2. glamourdammerung

      Are you going to cut and paste this in every WordPress site you troll?

      Unsubstantiated claim is unsubstantiated. Also.

  114. les_gvt

    Did anyone notice his favorite reading list included the communist manifesto? and Mein Kampf- seems pretty much like a left wing nut job working here

    1. SorosBot

      Really, I don't even understand how you can say this without realizing you are undermining your own claim; you point out that his reading list included Mein Kampf, that famous racist screed by history's most well known evil, conservative dictator, then claim that means he's a leftist? Huh? That makes the kind of sense that's not.

      1. les_gvt

        National SOCIALIST Party

        Socialism is government control- Hitler was a dictator- full government control- hence Hitler was a leftiset.

        The only differencee between Hitler and Stalin was that Hitler had to lie to people enough to get elected

        They both controled manufacturing, food output, children,

        They both controlled every aspect of society, and if you did not follow their rulees you wound up in a prison, or excuted. there is nothing right wing about that. You need to go back and learn your politics better

        better yet- you just need to learn the truth

        1. SorosBot

          "Hitler was a leftiset"

          What the fuck? Did you even take sixth grade history? Or do you just think we're so stupid that we would actually a lie as outrageous and obviously wrong as that? My god, you are one stupid fucker.

          1. les_gvt

            once again, your verbal skills- or lack thereof- are on display- which also says something about your overall intelligence level most likely

            However- hitler was a total Staist- which is to the left as far as you can go

            He controled everything, and no matter which spectrum chart you use, communism and Nazism end up at the same point- one person being total dictators runing everything in the nation

            I would say to use some common sense and think about it, however- i doubt you have any to spare

          2. les_gvt

            34? physically, ok, Mentally? doubt it

            as to Hitler- he controlled manufacturing- progressive idea
            economy- progressive idea
            one party rule- progressive idea
            health care- progressive idea
            food supply- progressive idea
            expand borders- progressive idea
            enemies list- Jews,gays, gypsies- progressive idea

            Stalin
            economy
            one party rule
            health care
            food supply
            expand borders
            enemies list- killed over 50 million Russians alone

            now please explain the difference between the two

            If you look back- the NAZI's were kicked out of the communist party- because they were TOO RADICAL for the communists. The Beep Hall Putsch was aimed at destroying their rivals- the communist, and Hitler and Stalin Hated each other- becuase they were too much alike and both wanted the same thing

            Difference was Hitler was jealous of the land- Stalin was jealous of the industrialization both wanted more. Stailin just knew how to put a better face on himself than Hitler did

            Oh well- I am one of those evil taxpayers- gotta go support some tofu eating espresso drinking needing free health care illegal alien child- and where I live- thats roughly 60% of the kids

          3. les_gvt

            34? physically, ok, Mentally? doubt it

            go back and look at the beginning of the NAZI party- they were mostly rejects from the communist party that had been kicked out because they were TOO RADICAL for the communist.

            This is the reason Hitler hated them so much.

            Comparing Nazism to communism is like comparing Lennin to Trotski

          4. gvvt

            Where on earth did you get this? Please cite a real source. The Nazis developed out of the extreme right wing Freikorps soldiers who put down the Communist revolution at the end of WWI. Have YOU READ Mein Kampf? Have you read Hitler's gloating recollections of breaking up Communist meetings? The first Germans interred in concentration camps were left-wingers. You know nothing about what you think you are talking about.

            Like all of you fools on the right, you will buy anything any huckster on TV or the internet will dish up to you. READ Mein Kampf, read German history before you make such mendaciously idiotic statements.

          5. les_gvt

            You really want me to dig up my grandad who was there?

            This is when he and my grandmother decided to leave Germany- because she was Roma- and they both new that they would not be able to hide that for long.

            After the Putsch, he finally realized he had been lied to – and blind-about many things, and saw what was about to happen to the nation

            Yes- my grandfather was one of th communist that got kicked out and became one of the original NAZI's- fortunately- he got ou alive and repent for his mistakes.

            You have the reason they hated ach other all wrong, just as you have that NAZIism is right wing all wrong- it is just as hard left as communism

          6. SorosBot

            I these kind of lies come from the Manichean world view that many conservatives have, that leads them to whitewash history. To them, conservatives are good, and liberals are bad, so anyone who is evil is called a liberal even they are conservative, so they claim Hitler was really liberal (and that he was an atheist when he was actually Catholic), just as this guy is claiming this crazed racist killer was actually a secret liberal who tried to kill Giffords I guess because she too moderate, and above called Muslim fundamentalist terrorists liberals.

            Or else they claim they weren't really bad, like saying that the Confederate traitors seceded over "State's Rights" instead of purely over slavery. Similarly, they try to claim some liberal heroes, like the ridiculous claim that Martin Luther King was conservative, or ignoring that Jesus' teachings were downright socialistic. It's ridiculous and dishonest, but it's what they do. Meanwhile, outside of a few whackos on the street liberals try to look at history accurately; you don't hear people claiming the Soviets were really right-wingers.

          7. les_gvt

            Hitler-

            control of all business
            control of food supply
            control of youth
            control of education
            control of health care
            pushed eugenics
            control of manufacturing
            control of transportation
            put enemies in jail/executed them
            one party rule

            Stalin-
            control of business
            control of food supply
            control of youth
            control of education
            control of health care
            pushed eugenics
            control of manufacturing
            control of transportaion
            put enemies in jail/executed them
            one party rule

            so where is the difference? there isn't one

          8. SorosBot

            Nazi Germany was capitalistic, moron; the government didn't control business but worked with them. Also, once again, their central doctrine was racism, a conservative value.

          9. glamourdammerung

            Not only was Germany pro-business, they were pro-business to the point where it hurt the war effort. Hence putting Speer in charge of finally forcing businesses to focus on a war economy.

        2. mumbly_joe

          Their full name was actually the National Socialist German Workers party, which makes sense, given how labor-friendly they were. Oh, wait.

          Anyway, let's look at another phrase: Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

          By your logic, North Korea is both a democratic nation, and a republic, because it says so on the label, and nobody ever uses names for propaganda or anything.

          Beyond that, it's really isn't worth even engaging with you, because the "truth" you're spouting is basically Holocaust denial, a half-step removed. The fact that the political coalition that elevated Hitler to power was between the Nazis, a mainstream conservative party, and a number of smaller nationalist groups is indisputable fact, as is the fact that their main political opposition was from the Social Democrats, who, by your illogic should have been ideologically aligned with them.

          But, no, go ahead, keep parroting Jonah Goldberg and Mark Levin. You're clearly doing yourself a credit there.

          1. J Rbt. Oppenheiner

            Obviously the Democratic in their name = the US Democratic party. You, you, communist socialist nazi statist.

          2. les_gvt

            You are correct- I am in total denial that my grandmother lost two sisters and a brother in gas chambers.

          3. mumbly_joe

            None of which changes the fact that denying the facts of Hitler's rise to power is a hair's breadth away from denying the facts of the Holocaust itself. That you're bringing shame upon your own family in the process is besides the point.

          4. les_gvt

            Do you know the story bhind the Beer Hall Putsch?

            look at the beginning of the Nazi party- you will discover that it was virtually all expelled communist- Just as the Fascist party was in Italy

            They are all the same government system with varying degrees of brutallity- hence Lenin or Trotski

            now I have to go support a tofu eating, latte drinking illegal alien welfare recipient child in need of free medical care that I can't afford

            and with where I live- thats about 3/4 of them- illegal aliens that is

          5. SorosBot

            A racist as well, charming. By the way, the Nazis were nationalists, white supremacists and anti-Semites, all of which are right-wing doctrines. Now go back to take sixth grade history.

          6. mumbly_joe

            Sorry kid, but anti-Bolshevism was actually a major plank of the Nazi platform, and arguably a big part of what elevated them in the Reichstag in the first place. In fact, one of the major thrusts of Nazi anti-semitic propaganda was that German Jewry were a Bolshevik fifth column, and hence a threat to national stability. Which is, again, why I said that attempting to rewrite this bit of history is tantamount to Holocaust Denial.

            Oh, and regarding illegal immigrants: the Nazis never were known terribly well for their open immigration policies or embrace of intra-national multiculturalism. Why do you suppose liberals are known for these things, but conservatives aren't, and yet, this makes liberals more ideologically related to fascists? And no credit for "liberals are the real racists". Come on. You're just embarrassing yourself now.

          7. gvvt

            Mussolini figured out that Socialism wasn't going to get him anywhere. So he became a right-wing fanatical anti-communist. He was furious that Hitler delayed his attack on the Soviet Union, which Hitler did purely for tactical and logistical reasons. And don't bring up the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. That was an attempt to buy time and keep Russian raw materials flowing into Germany for the munitions industry.

            The Munich Putsch was Hitler lashing out at the insufficiently violent plans of the right wing ruling group in Bavaria; they had backed down from their intentions to overthrow the Berlin government and establish a right-wing dictatorship. Hitler hoped to seize the momentum and topple the central government.

          8. gvvt

            You should honor the memory of your relatives by learning the facts instead of spouting your disgusting twisting of historical truth. History is not whatever damn thing you feel like "believing." And fools who throw around garbage as stupid as this nonsense of yours will only drag us back down the same road to utter barbarity.

            Hitler added "socialist" to the party's name to defuse the left's appeal and to suggest some sort of classless society, reminiscent of the supposed brotherhood of the trenches in WWI.

            Total control is not a leftist notion; it's a dictatorial form of government. Batista was no leftist, Franco was no leftist, and Hitler and Mussolini were most emphatically not leftists.

            Hitler's only real war aim was to destroy the Soviet Union and its "Jewish Bolshevism." PLEASE READ SOME REAL HISTORY.

          9. mumbly_joe

            I mean, for chrissakes, Franco's biggest cheerleader Stateside was founder of the National Review Bill Buckley himself, who specifically admired the vigor with which Franco was oppressing Spain's political left.

            Unless this somehow means that founder of the "modern intellectual right," Willam F Buckley, Jr. was secretly a leftist, too?

          10. les_gvt

            It does seem that every communist nation has peoples, democratic or republic in it official title. good point, because they are none of the 3

      1. SorosBot

        Animal Farm, an anti-communist allegory that was written by a socialist. And here I thought communism and socialism were one and the same!

    2. glamourdammerung

      So since you list a quote you claim to be from Saul Alinsky (I do not know or care as I am not obsessed with the guy like you clowns are), does that make you a leftist?

      I have read Papal Edicts. Does that make me Catholic?

      If it does not, then it completely invalidates pretty much every bit of nonsense you spewed here.

  115. gvvt

    I'm sorry if this has been asked already, but where were Sens. McCain and Kyle at 10 AM on June 12, 2010? Any chance either of them were at a campaign event back home?

  116. gvvt

    Oddly enough, the Tuscon Citizen website doesn't have any listings for Jesse Kelly between the end of April and July. I guess he suddenly stopped campaigning.

  117. glamourdammerung

    The "do not retreat, reload" crowd sure seems to be tripping over themselves to lie their ways out of everyone seeing just what those "Second Amendment solutions" they were gushing about meant.

    1. 4tehlulz_lite

      Why not? They managed to evade blame for the Oklahoma City bombing; this is minor league compared to that.

  118. Makemyownchoice

    SorrosBot- You failed to answer my question. What race is someone who chooses to break our immigration laws?
    Next: How is this question rasict rhetoric?

    Imissopus- I never said we should give up on keeping dangerous weapons away from dangerous people. I already go through a process when I buy a gun for just this purpose, and I have no problem with it. My point is the weapon does not make the person act violently. It is a personal choice.
    I stated this view in response to someone saying access to guns was to blame, not to start a gun control debate.

    1. SorosBot

      Oh please, as if the anti-immigrant rhetoric wasn't inherently racist; and we know the racists have latinos in their mind when you are spewing your bile.

    2. mumbly_joe

      Immigration has always been about race, going all the way back to the yes-it-was-really-called-that Chinese Exclusion Act. The notion that present-day immigration debates are about THE LAW, and not about Mexicans qua Mexicans, is belied by the prominence of various white supremacist groups on one side of that debate, as well as every single ancillary issue raised the debate, (just as an example, bilingual services) which are frankly coated with anti-Latino animus. Attempting to deny that this has been made an issue because of anti-Latino bias is like attempting to pretend that the original navitism push in the 1880's had nothing to do with bias against "Chinamen". In other words, you're full of shit.

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