So, Afghanistan: That’s going really well, huh? “Yes,” according to the Obama administration’s Afghanistan report, which was released today. You can read it online, of course — but if you simply do that, it won’t make any sense, as this war is not going all that well. So you should read it out loud, at the top of your lungs, and thus drown out everyone making arguments against it. Once you do that, the report will make sense! The U.S. will start removing troops in July, because Afghanistan suddenly will have a great military that wants to kill off the Taliban, and Pakistan will selflessly assist them, if we just believe it. All we need is a little imagination!
The summary points to a handful of areas where the influx of American troops has had an impact. For instance, night raids by special forces operatives and increased security measures in local villages, the report said, have reduced overall Taliban influences in the Taliban heartland of Kandahar and Helmand provinces.
“In Two Provinces, When Taliban Influence Is Looked At On the Whole, It Is a Degree Less Than It Was Previously.” Print that up on a banner and declare victory! That sounds great.
Even as Republicans urge the president not to withdraw troops on an arbitrary timeline, White House officials are already bracing for a fight next year with their Democratic base, where many anti-war Democrats have been calling for a more rapid withdrawal of American troops. Some Democrats in Congress say that they will soon begin resisting continuing to spent $100 billion annually on Afghanistan. [...]
But just how many soldiers will actually come home next July remains an open question; military officials have indicated that they want only a limited number, and even White House officials take pains to say that the withdrawal will be “conditions-based.”
So we will forever say how very nice and productive this war is, and in July, we will start bringing home the four or five Alvin Greenes we have deployed over there. These Alvin Greenes will be honored as heroes for basically ending the war — seeing as four or five fewer people are there — and will be given medals by the new president, Alvin Greene.
Actually, this may be the only way to do it. (Or we could just let the Taliban have their damn country, because they (or strongmen almost precisely like them) soon will have power anyway.) [NYT]
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night raids by special forces operatives
Is this Afghan Phoenix Program?
which will be very prone to human rights abuse,,
I mean … they all look the same, with that beards and turbans !!!
Naaah, it will be very humane. One shot to the head at pointblank range, they won't feel a thing. As far a look alikes, no prob there either using the tried and true method of just shooting whoever comes to the door.
They're all hanging out together so obviously even if you don't have the actual driving force, you're still taking out a member of the
Viet CongTaliban.And here the only Phoenix Programs I had heard of were courses at a phony unaccredited online college.
They're similar, but with the on-line Phoenix you assassinate your mind and pocketbook instead of the enuhmeez.
You beat me to it, Weejee, you dog.
And OF COURSE IT'S NOT an Afghan Phoenix Program.
The names are different, and . . . and . . . there are no deserts in Vietnam.
Inspector Renault: "The waters? There are no waters in Afghanistan. We're in the middle of the desert."
Rick Blaine: "Fuck you, you mincing French faggot! USA! USA! USA!"
The Frogs did it in North Africa too? I'd be shocked, but then one person's White House is another's Casablanca.
Muy bueno, senor.
Yes it is!
Jeez, Obamer. It's not like the GOPers AREN't going to blame you. It's a given considering that they're the ones who fucked it up. Like in 1990 when W's daddy walked away or in 2001 when W needed his Risk pieces for Iraqinam.
The Taliban is just the southern piece of a country-wide tribal insurgency divided along ethnic lines. Getting out of this tarpatch will be worse than leaving your relatives' around the holidays, only with less gnawing guilt and negotiating away of self-respect and more shooting (or less, depending on what state you're from). We should have totally withdrawn everybody once Obama took office and then left a big sign in Kabul that said YOU'VE BEEN BIDENED, then put it up on youtube.
The Taliban is just the southern piece of a country-wide tribal insurgency divided along ethnic lines
Like Republicans.
Now, the South and Republicans aren't racist anymore! And we know this because they say so.
Wait, what was that? http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/30/us/30confed.htm...
A bunch of Southerners will be celebrating the 150th anniversary of secession on the 20th. But no, they're not racist anymore.
Hurritage not Hait!
Mehbe we could get Michele and her caca-caucus to go over and teach the tribes Kumbaya? Barry just has to convince Bachmann that would be much better that what's going on now with the tribes singing that olde Harry Belafonte number around the campfire.
♪♫ Hey Mr. Taliban, rally to Bin Landen, GIs a comin' and they wanna get hosed ♫♪
the Pasthuns,,, they are brutal highland tribes like the Scots during the ages of William Wallace,,
just without face paint and with explosives
Mel Gibson wanted the starring role in the movie until he found out the Taliban weren't Catholic.
I still say ship Mel over there to do some groundwork for a new film. After all, they hate Jew, he hates Jews – common ground!
Plus, when he flies off the handle and starts spewing insults, someone will probably just shoot him. That's what I call victory in Afghanistan.
The Taliban like torturing people in awful, nasty ways so Mel should be down with that. Plus, I don't think they like Jews.
Descended from the 10 lost tribes, they claim.
sounds like win/ win…let's call it a day (decade) and GTFO!
no shit, I was just reminde today (on librul/ socialist talk radio of course!) that while we are spending $100+ BILLION per year in Afghanipakistan to hunt down an estimated couple hundred Al Quaeda/ CIA insurgents/ freedom fighters, the entire GDP of Afghanistan is less than $14 BILLION, WTF? We'd be better off just giving them $50 billion (Ameros?) and walk/ fly out of this shithole that the war/ oil/gas profiteers at BushCheney, Inc got us into..and then let Karzai and his evil/ corrupt fucking brothers/ drug dealers fend off the terrierist Talibans by themselves!
We need our own Alcibiades to invade Sicily.
oh, yeah, like that turned out well.
That's the stupidest idea I've ever heard.
How many members of the modern American military do you would be able to quote Euripides to get out of dying from hunger and thirst as POWs in that rock quarry?
Gesh. You people just don't THINK . . . .
The Sicilian misadventure at least had the advantage of breaking the near-stalemate that had bled both sides through a decades-long war. It was probably better than twenty more years of inconclusive reciprocal slaughter.
Unless, of course, inconclusive reciprocal slaughter is the whole point.
:::Harumph:::
Actually, that's not correct. Athens came back from the Sicilian Expedition (415-413 BC), and fought and won some major victories thereafter before finally losing in 404 BC.
It was more like Gettysburg. Not so much a turning point, as a "high water mark."
Neilist
Truly Pedantic Git Department
Wonkette Division of History
P.s. How in the Hell did I get 83 Positive P points?
Bush was out third rate Alcibiades. We're on to Nicias now, for all the good that'll do.
Having the troops leave will be less traumatic for the Afghan "government" than having the firehose of money flowing into that country reduced to a trickle or turned off.
Oh stop being so damn rational. There's no emotional satisfaction in sub-jihad solutions! If GWB thought like you, we wouldn't have been in The Iraq for seven years now, with no end in sight!
We need to be more business-like about this. Give them a severance package and some meaningless outplacement program and call it done.
Taliban influence is waning and Tet was a military disaster for the NVA. Righto!
Afghanistanization!
It's weird, because the parallels with Vietnam are really striking, down to the strongholds in a neighboring country the US is bombing while pretending it's not. Then, slowly drawing down troops while claiming an imaginary victory finally got us the fuck out of there at least, so hopefully it will now too.
Actually, the current "scholarly military research/analysis" making the rounds "in country" right now is that the Soviets "weren't really defeated" in Afghanistan, because they left the country with an "improved army" and a "more capable government" . . . .
. . . . both of which pretty much collapsed within about 18 months.
Listen for that phrasing in the next year or so: "We're not leaving Afghanistan in defeat, because it has an improved army and a more cap . . . ::::BOOM!:::
sweet jeebus I'm finally beginning to appreciate the genius in your comments (savantism?) and actually think I might go apply for a gun permit tomorrow, in your honor…any suggestions for a 1st time gun owner (nothin' too lethal, I'm STILL a scaredy-cat librul y'know)
Great – does that mean we'll have to wait for President Palin's second term before we finally withdraw all of our forces from Afghanistan?
Nah, Obama's; since Ike and JFK just had advisers there, Bush is LBJ and Obama is Nixon in this analogy. Although I don't think Bush tried to negotiate an end to the war in the summer before the election that was secretly undermined by Obama, through his Afghan possible mistress promising Karzai that he'd get a better deal with him in office.
"his Afghan possible mistress" = Zalmay Khalilzad?
Now, all we need is a helicopter clearing off the roof of the American Embassy in Kabul, and…BAM! Full circle.
Don't forget the people hanging from the skids.
We're fighting the Taliban over there, so we don't have to fight the Republicans over here.
Up-fisted. However, should read: We're fighting the Taliban over there, so we don't have to fight the Republicans about the Taliban over here.
Because for fucks sake, we have to fight them about everything over here, even shit they agree with.
At this point, the American Taliban are more of a threat to the American Way Of Life then the Afghanis.
Taliban = Republicunt …so can't we find a *compromise* to bring them together in some kinda circular firing squad?
Of course the GOP are encouraging POTUS to stay in Afghanistan. They are like Sirens leading sailors to their doom.
It's going better than it did for the USSR or the British but maybe not as well as it went for the Mongols or Alexander. But soon we'll have these 11th century tribal savages drug firmly into the 21st century where they'll learn some gratitude for the great gift we've brought (wrought?) unto them in a fine example of Christian Charity!
The Mongols were smart; they just went around Afghanistan and didn't bother trying to conquer it. Alexander still remains the only one to succeed in that.
I admit I haven't really read the history, I recall Alexander only brought some cities to heel, it wasn't 'sandals on the ground' everywhere… The only thing that will cure these people is time, maybe we should check back in a few centuries and see if they've made any progress though the religion aspect may make that unlikely.
When Hsuan Tsang passed through, 1500 years ago, they were Buddhists, but still fierce.
At a certain point, he decided to move on, too. That's one reason why he was Great.
Ancient conquerors generally stuck to the lowlands, where the profits were, and left highlands alone. Or hired the highlanders as special forces.
Including the million or two dead and maimed.
And to think, this level of success has only cost $375 billion (so far)!
Yeah! They haven't given ADM nearly that in ethanol subsidies.
don't worry, our lenders in China are very generous …
Answer: Declare Afganistan the 51st state. The Messicans will move in, drive down property values, the rich locals will move to the Hamptons, they rest will eat a ton of fried McDognuts and be too fat, dumb and happy to care. And if they get a WalMart, they'll vote Republican.
That was probably the Bush plan in the first place.
"And if they get a WalMart, they'll vote Republican."
How do you say "If you see something, say something" in pashtun?
As much as I like Obama, his willingness to bind us to this, you should excuse the expression, tar baby makes me question his sound judgment.
Mission Accomplished!
Land war in Asia. What could go wrong?
Can payment of taxes be conditions-based now?
Oh good. I feel better now.
Official Version: "We've made significant progress in moving the ball forward on setting the stage for things getting better at some point in the foreseeable future when conditions are no longer as dire as they appear to be now. Oh, also, here's a picture of an Afghan boy smiling after a U.S. soldier rescued his puppy from the drainage ditch it had fallen into."
Wikileaks Version: "The whole country is falling to shit, and if we can't get that cocksucker Karzai to do something about corruption this clusterfuck is only going to get worse as more and more Afghans lose hope and take up arms against us. Meanwhile villagers are pissed that out predators keep bombing their weddings and roadside bombs getting more sophisticated and harder to spot. On the bright side, one of our boys rescued some Afghan kid's puppy from a drainage ditch and an AP reproter nearby snapped a picture of it. We could probably use this when it comes time to bullshit the press about how great everything's going in this raging shithole."
As long as Pakistan is a safe refuge for Talebs (except for the odd wedding blown up by death drones) and the Karzai government remains a narco-kleptocracy, what we do in Afghanistan is useless. We should just pack it in.
this country–america, i mean–needs to stop it with this chronic waging of unwinnable wars. it's some sort of obsessive-compulsive disorder.
Unwinnable? Wez only lost Vietnam 'cause the libruls back home got all upset 'bout our armies killing COMMIES just 'cause they wuz womenn & children and wouldn't let us do what wuz necesary 2 win!!!1!
(Note: this is an actual argument I have actually heard from real people).
Not sober, intelligent people, I'll wager.
Probably people walking out at the end of a Chuck Norris Missing In Action marathon at the local Cineplex.
Walking? You mean scootering, I'm surel
It's mostly in bars, true.
And churches, my Gawd; the churchfolk here in Dumfukistan are soooo fucked in the head.
You'd be surprised.
Understatement! I would be flabbergasted. A thinking, sober person recognizes nuance, science and logic.
We'll never shake that 'White Man's Burden' outlook…
It is called: Feeding the Beast (Military Industrial Complex).
if we can get it into the dsm-v, maybe something can be prescribed for it. until then, i recommend either numbitol or fuckitol. both work equally well, though with different effects.
I'm hooked on Hugivsafuk. I only participate on the off-chance I can piss off some Rightards along the way.
Wage unwinnable war, wash hands, check front door lock, wash all light switches, check front door lock again, wage unwinnable war, wash hands…
Conversely, I never managed to get into — or, find, even — the Hostal Kabul in Barcelona, c. 2000.
Still pissed about that. Ended up sleeping on the beach. In February.
Nothing wrong with sleeping on the beach, except the sand in the pants and shoes thing.
So how, exactly, do we ever get the money back we've spent there?
Think the Taliban and the warlords could have bake sales and arrange a payment schedule?
A payment plan coinciding with the annual poppy harvest might be a good place to start…
Can you say "Pipeline"?
The same way that the Iraqi oil revenues are covering the cost of that unnecessary war.
"Good morning, Vietnaaaaaam!"
"In Two Provinces, When Taliban Influence Is Looked At On the Whole, It Is a Degree Less Than It Was Previously.”
A degree better? Is that the best we can do? If it is we ought to just go home because we kind of suck really bad. $375 billion for a degree – and I thought my edumacation was 'spensive.
No kidding. The Yankees could fund an entire infield with that money!
But they still couldn't get Cliff Lee with it! Thank you, Yankee fans who spit on his wife!
The inside of my Nike wind breaker says MADE in VIETNAM.
Mr. President, if we leave today our future sports stars can be endorsed by clothing manufacturers in Afghanistan by about 2035.
Just a little something to consider from my "Think Drunk Tank ."
DOMINOES!
Just waiting for the Afghan equivalent of Saigon, April 30, 1975:
http://bit.ly/e4eZjr
Those helos fleeing the embassy in Saigon, 1975, were crash-landing on aircraft carriers a couple hundred miles away. That's not possible in Afghanistan. The best option is to be allowed to leave, like the Soviets. The worst? Ransoming the survivors. Or abandoning them.
What's wrong with me? At least our brave service men and women volunteered to get killed or maimed. I am seriously heartbroken over the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and Afghanis who have been killed, maimed and otherwise displaced or damaged by our disgraceful mis-management of these wars. These people were just trying to live their lives.
Dunno how extensive the damage and casualties are in Afghanistan, but we've basically trashed Iraq and ruined the lives of millions of people. Back in 2003 I wanted to puke up my intestines, pick them up and start slapping people across the face with them while screaming "IT'S WAR! STOP CHEERING!" When people said that the Iraqis should be grateful for what we'd done for them, I just saw red.
Snarkless – it's just so sad, such a travesty and it's almost weird to see anyone even bring up the people it happened to.
I'm with you.
Quite true.
To be fair, all that stuff about how great Pakistan is at helping us and how great the Afghan government is doing is merely just diplomatic crap to say as it sounds much better than "Pakistan is a bunch of corrupt, two faced, maniacs and Afghanistan is a midevil country because it's they suck." Guess we'll have to wait for the Wikileaks to come out before we find out all that stuff.
The Pakistani military leaders and intelligence honchos are very close to deciding to dump the Taliban and sign on with the U.S. of A.
All we need to seal the deal is a few more Predator drone strikes against citizens of Pakistan combined with shooting another lightly armed border guard.
Hell, if he Predator droned Indians in Kashmir, we'd have them forever.
But, but, you guys. Our Democratic leadership has always told us that this is the "right war."
All Afghanistan needs is more cowbell.
Have a sense of proportion here. $375 Billion is only half as much as tax cuts for the rich are going to cost us in the next two years. And we got a degree!
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