Private plane to Hell.Turns out there are some occasional consequences to keeping your failed industry afloat on a sea of free money from the government. General Motors’ CEO Richard Wagoner found out about that, today, when he was fired — excuse us, “resigned.” Barack Obama went on some teevee talky show this morning to complain about Detroit and the auto bailout, and by tonight Wagoner was out, the end. [Washington Post]

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  1. My son called Barry “Rocky Obama” yesterday.

    My father had a Pinto, a Vega and a Lynx when I was growing up. Oddly enough, it was the Lynx that spontaneously combusted in the breakdown lane while the whole family watched from the median.

  2. Oh, shit, how am I going to get parts for my ’73 Chevy Vega, the best small car EVAR!

    Of course, after 1975, no one needed parts for Vegas, them having dissolved like a sugar cube in the rain. It’s not rust, it’s a feature. Poor Rick seemed not to understand that GM has never lived down the Vega, the “Cadillac” Cimmarron, the Citation, the S10 pickup (sheds parts even when standing still), etc.

  3. The redneck mobile, aka SUV, is dead.
    The V-8 is toast.
    The next president’s limo will be a straight 4 by KIA, or is it Ikea, which can be expected to buy gm for truck-nutts! Sara Palin will be their CEO, Condi Rice will be CFO, and their spokesperson will be Mr. Henry!

  4. All right, I read the article and not one mention of “spending more time with the family”. Yet another of our prized corporate leaders is Going Gault.

  5. [re=275976]DangerousLiberal[/re]: When I was a college student, a professor (not one of mine) asked me out…when we walked out to the faculty (!) parking lot to get into his car, I started laughing….”Oh God, you paid money for a Chevy Vega!” (my dad being in the car business and Vegas being a constant butt of jokes). The poor guy deflated like Rush Limbaugh after liposuction. I began to realize that professors got more respect than money.
    The car could move forward, or the air conditioning could work, but you were not going to get both at the same time.

  6. Who’da thunk there was a limit to how many crappy decisions you could make before your employer got tired of you? Wouldn’t have happened under the last administration, that’s for sure. Rumsfeld? Gonzales? Rove? Allowed to resign.
    Well, bitches, welcome to the era of don’t-leave-claw-marks-on-the-marble-floor-as-they-drag-you-out-of-the-executive-washroom.

  7. [re=275986]SayItWithWookies[/re]: If you were a cashier at a store and you mistakenly gave someone a $20 instead of a $1, you’re probably fired + they’ll likely call the cops on you

  8. Obama totally circled the wagons* around Wagoner.

    *#3: “…where you take three or four bunks in a prison cell, and put them in a circle or semi circle with sheets blocking whats going on inside. What happens inside is that two dozen inmates are raping the hell outta their bitch. I’m talking skull, ass, shoulder blades. It’s not pretty…”

  9. So. Obama’s plot to destroy private enterprise takes another ominous step forward, and all you socialists can do is make station wagon jokes. We’ll see who’s laughing when everyone is required by federal law to drive a Yugo.

  10. Pardon me, Wagoner is out, but none of the tightey-whitey Banker Boys he met with last week share the same fate?

    Oh yeah, THEY haz teh importance…

  11. [re=275993]DoktorZoom[/re]: And private enterprise was doing so well on its own, too. Now then — would you like your Mao jacket in black or gray?

  12. So now GM is socialized. Or Muslin. But it’s interference with the Invisible Hand of Capitalists.

    That greedy, greedy Invisible Hand.

  13. I don’t mean any disrepect to this obviously younger audience but WAKE UP, FOR CHRISSAKES!
    It’s fair to say GM has been officially nationalized. A private enterprise, albeit a huge one, is BOUGHT by the government (purchase begun by George W) with bailout money – instead of reorganizing under Chapter 11 – and therefore the Teleprompter in Chief gets to fire the CEO. That’s the shareholder’s responsibility. Obama will probably find time now to sit in on the R&D meetings (when he’s not campaigning on Leno or the web) to create the cars he wants us to drive…
    You voted for change, you got it alright. Say goodbye to the free market as we know it, say hello to the re-distribution of wealth and more government control of your life.
    This is a slippery slope we’re heading down. If you care about your freedoms, wake up and get involved in something other than the same old Dem vs Republican crap the career politicians and mainstream media have forced down our throats for decades and JUST BE AN INFORMED & INVOLVED CITIZEN!!

  14. [re=275996]DoctorCulturae[/re]: You know how according to folklore a town/posse/club would kill one or two members of a rival group and stick their heads on spears impaled into the ground as a warning to others? I think Wagoner’s head is on one of those spears.

  15. Does this mean no more Wagon Queen Family Trucksters for the Griswold family?

    The last American car my family owned was a 1976 Gran Torino Brougham which did not even have the ultra-cool Starsky and Hutch tomato stripe. I spit on the future grave of Clint Eastwood for dredging up bad childhood memories of sitting in the back of that complete and total turd.

  16. [re=276006]unfreakingbelievable[/re]: I’m not quite ready to beleive Rick ‘resigned’ because he refused Obama’s pimpmobile design plans.

  17. Wonkette’s Enlightenment forebears called this one:

    “Dans ce pay-ci, il est bon de tuer de temps en temps un amiral pour encourager les autres.” (Voltaire, punks)

    “The prospect of hanging concentrates the mind wonderfully.” (“Dr.” Johnson)

    Please let Wagoner’s inevitable grotesque severance be paid in GM (or AIG or Citi or BoA etc, etc ) stock.

  18. [re=276007]PsycGirl[/re]: Quaint and effective.

    I imagine Rahm, aka Igor, salivating, jumping up and down, prodding the Preznit:

    “Mathter, mathter, who-th nextht?!”

  19. [re=276006]unfreakingbelievable[/re]: “It’s fair to say GM has been officially nationalized.”

    It might be fair to say. However, it is also completely inaccurate.

  20. What will be the wingnut/PUMAtard fake outrage on this? Remember, you always have to disagree with Obama and the rest of murka.
    “Nobama Hitler strikes again, who’s next , my job at Carls Jr?? Outrage Argghhhh!!1!!”

  21. [re=276006]unfreakingbelievable[/re]: JUST BE AN INFORMED & INVOLVED CITIZEN!!
    This can be done by posting to blogs using all caps, am I right?
    You get 10 points for mentioning the teleprompter and Leno, but surely you could have worked in ACORN, a birth certificate, Reverend Wright, Bill Ayers, something about Muslins, and the word “socialism” rather than just describing it. The comment box is pretty big. I’m a little disappointed, frankly.

  22. [re=276006]unfreakingbelievable[/re]: “Say goodbye to the free market as we know it”.

    On noes, not the Free unregulated Ponzi scheme Madoff-enabling Market?!?? Why, God, why?? Why do only the good capitalist systems die young?!!?

  23. [re=276006]unfreakingbelievable[/re]: Have you done any research on exactly how accountable CEOs and upper management are to “shareholders” in modern corporations? Answer: none. Thank Allah for Comrade Barry writing to save the day on his noble horse, Trotsky.

  24. I worked as a programming consultant for Merrill-Lynch’s
    Custody Support division in Jersey City NJ in the 1990s.
    During the time I was there, I saw a kid who screwed up
    some programming code get fired for incompetence.

    Recently, that fuck Stan O’neal led Merrill into the toilet and
    walked away with (reported) $100M – $250M IN COMPENSATION.

    FUCK Richard Wagoner — he (just as our beloved Obama)
    took responsibility for the success or failure of GM
    when he took the reins of control. If the unions are killing
    GM with out-moded benefits, if japanese brands are made in
    the south without unions, if the subprime mess wrecks
    the market, HE was supposed to DEAL WITH IT.

    I’ll shed tears for this over-rated fuck when people like
    him get treated the same way as low-level employees who are

  25. [re=276023]MFAWG[/re]: Possibly but since the announcement of the firing of the CEO of Peugeot Citroen was made by “the carmaker’s supervisory board chairman, Thierry Peugeot“, the vote might have been 1-0 in favor of firing.

  26. [re=276006]unfreakingbelievable[/re]: Uhhh, well, if they are going to come ask the government to be the biggest shareholder of GM, then I would think the one paying the piper calls the tune, eh? Wagoner himself knew he wasn’t very good at the CEO business anyway. Uncle Sam put Edward Liddy in place at AIG and that didn’t work out so well. They weren’t going to get stuck leaving Rick behind at GM to keep vacuuming up cash. If Wagoner would have taken GM bankrupt, he would have been out anyway and the government would have been left to pick up the pieces (because even though this is a free market, we still believe in the sanctified American Union Automobile Worker). I think it’s funny that it’s so blatant (Obama to Rick Wagoner: You’re Fired) but it sends a signal to all the rest of the “Masters of the Universe”. If you suck, you’re out. Take note, Ken Lewis at BoA.

  27. If GM didn’t need a bailout like Ford – then the government couldn’t touch them and Rick would still be the CEO. I just hope this sends a strong message to all banking CEOs that they will get fired if they cannot get their companies to stop snorting up government cash.

  28. [re=276029]donner_froh[/re]:

    LOL, noticed that! Will Durant’s been dead for over fifty years, and that Socialist Eisenhower forced the Dupont’s out in the 50’s, so it fell to Hopey to do what needed to be done…

  29. It appears to me that almost everyone who has posted a comment on this site is simple, trite and uninformed. Do ANY of you live in Michigan? Do any of you have any involvement in the auto industry? Do any of you have jobs?

    Just because you know how to drive a car doesn’t mean you know jack about what is going on in this auto industry.

    Or in this country. You should drop to your knees and pray for your future and for the future of your children if you have any. You can make your snide remarks and your personal comments about Rick Wagoner. I happen to know the guy and if you knew him too you’d be ashamed of what you’re reading here. I’m afraid this is just the beginning of a terrible tragedy for our country.

  30. I had a piece of shit caddy in college. The brakes decided to go out at random intervals. Didn’t matter how many times I took it to the shop and had new brake pads installed, or the brake disc or rotors or the f-ing hydraulics. The best was time they went out was at the lights in front of the police station when I was designated driver for about 7 of my friends who were hammered and reeked of weed. I rolled straight through the intersection. Thank god it was four in the morning and no one was on the road and no one looked out of the window of the police station. That was when I decided to never buy American again. That shit never happened with the ancient Merc I had in high school or the mitsubishi after.

  31. I’ve been in the automotive industry for over twenty five years, mostly working in dealership service departments with 2 forays into owning my own repair shop (one successful, the other not-s-much)

    That cover it for ya, sport?

  32. It’s so comforting to see that the commentary here is of such high intellectual capacity. You’re probably still driving around your stoned friends in a used car your daddy bought you.

  33. [re=276037]mary[/re]: Yes, I have a job. I’m here at work on Sunday night (11-ish eastern time), “baby sitting” new software that I put into production this week-end. If all goes well, my CIO will probably get a 100K bonus — if it fails, I’ll probably be fired. That might have a little something to do with why I don’t give a flying fuck for your Lord Richard’s fate.

  34. I’m not saying that the wages of the country are fairly divided. All I’m saying is that so many of you are pointing fingers at the wrong person.

  35. I just dropped to my knees, realized (as usual) I wasn’t wearing pants, and cracked my kneecap on the tile floor. I am suing Mary for $1.2 million or a vintage El Camino, whichever is cheaper.

  36. [re=276006]unfreakingbelievable[/re]: Um. If GM has been “BOUGHT by the government (purchase begun by George W) with bailout money” is the government not then the shareholder responsible for firing the executives? Note the “IF” at the beginning of that sentence, ’cause its the key word.


  37. (At the Shelbyville stadium, Ned and Homer drive past Carl & Lenny.)

    Homer: [gasps] Duck! I can’t let the boys see me with you!

    Ned: What?

    Homer: [grunts, pushes Ned down] Hi!

    Lenny: Hey! Look, Homer’s got one of those robot cars! [the car crashes]

    Carl: One of those American robot cars.

  38. I don’t care who gives a shit about me. I care about what is going to happen to this country. Unfortunately that includes you. My kids, my parents and the good people who are actually trying to make a difference are the ones who matter. Not the ones like you. As the saying goes, “Try Being Informed Instead of Just Opinionated”

  39. [re=276042]mary[/re]:

    In what respect, Mary?

    I was just answering YOUR questions:

    Yes, I have a job, and yes I am QUITE familiar with the industry as a whole and GM specifically.

    The fact is anybody who’s been paying more than passing attention to GM has had a pretty good idea that the ship was sinking since their decision to STOP doing RandD and pin their hopes on the Consumer Credit and Home Mortgage industries, a change that Mister Wagoner helped pioneer.

    Of course that went south, and of course they and The Noise Machine blamed folks that turn wrenches and actually MAKE shit for the problem.

    Also, such as.

  40. [re=276037]mary[/re]: Zomg! You’re absolutely right. Because I don’t actually reside in the state of Michigan or put cars together for a living I have no right to comment on how the jackasses who do spend the piles of tax money the government has thrown at them. Try this on for size: Fuck Richard Wagoner, and you as well.

  41. {re=276050]mary[/re]: Get the fuck over yourself. My daddy never bought me a car, I bought them myself Yes, what a bad person I am, wanting a car that doesn’t break down in the all the time or cost heaps to repair is sooo fucking horrible. And the real problem, mary, is that if you make a piece of shit product and charge more than the competition which makes a better product for a better price, then you deserve to lose your business, your job and be taken over by the government. And while I feel bad for the autoworkers, I couldn’t give a crap about the people at the top who ran the business into the ground in the first place.

  42. [re=276050]mary[/re]: oh, and sorry for the typos. – Here we go: Get the fuck over yourself. My daddy never bought me a car, I bought them myself. Yes, what a bad person I am, wanting a car that doesn’t break down all the time or cost heaps to repair is sooo fucking horrible. And the real problem, mary, is that if you make a piece of shit product and charge more than the competition which makes a better product for a better price, then you deserve to lose your business, your job and be taken over by the government. And while I feel bad for the autoworkers, I couldn’t give a crap about the people at the top who ran the business into the ground in the first place.

  43. [re=275976]DangerousLiberal[/re]: Ah my memories had almost melted, too . . . thanks, I think. My 33-mile morning commute across New Jersey’s hillbilly heights involved stopping my 1973 Vega on some gawdfersaken shoulderless “paved” “road” about halfway to my destination every freakin morning so I could add another half-quart of oil. My 10/40 was costing me more than my beer. The Soviets could’ve made me a better car, and it would’ve given me more than 10,000 miles before morphing into an abandoned terrarium behind my landlord’s place.

    Mista Wagona, he dead.

  44. Please Mary, tell us more about your life since you’re much more informed, experienced, and patriotic than all of us combined.

    While you do that, let me make a spot for you to sit on (brushes away face).

  45. Well, first of all, I am not personally involved in the auto industry. I do live in Michigan and have nothing to do with making the cars you’re talking about. I own an american AND a foreign car and they both run equally well. No one has given american cars a chance in the last five years. They are actually very good cars. But most everyone is still living in the past and relying on old information. I’m saying that people like you are biting off your nose because you can’t see beyond old data so you’re not even trying and make this country a better place. The auto industry goes away if Washington is running it. If you would stop listening to Michael Moore and try to find out what’s really going on, you’d be a hell of a lot better off. It’s so very clear. As Michigan goes, so goes the country. It has nothing to do with Rick Wagoner. It all has to do with attitude and loyalty and patriotism. And economy. You think real estate is a problem where you are? Just check out what has happened in Michigan in the past two years. It’s moved on to a town near you.

    Now you can go and make all sorts of fun of me, but it’s the beginning of the end. It has nothing to do with Rick. It has everything to do with you all. Bob Nardelli made what? 230 million dollars when he left Home Depot. For running it into the ground. You think he’s worried? Of course not! He’s got all the money he needs for the rest of his life. You think Chrysler is better off than GM? I doubt it. But Nardelli will get away with it. It’s just really sad to see what is happening in this country. Good luck. and Happy Depression!

  46. [re=276037]mary[/re]: Well, I know this: We drove a GMC Jimmy (not hard or off-road) for several years and cursed it almost every week. The four-wheel drive broke down three times, the moon roof twice before we gave up and we needed a new transmission three years after we bought it, etc. etc. etc. AND my dad, the business manager of a dealership for GM (and others) sold it to us!!!!

    We replaced it with a Honda CRV that has needed almost nothing other than routine maintenance. My Geo Prizm has 212,000+ miles on it and is going strong, also with mostly routine maintenance (of course some things must be replaced every 100,000 miles or so).

    This, writ large, is the problem with Detroit and maybe Detroit is way too far in denial..and too far in Denali…to see it.

    BTW I believe terms of service explicitly instruct one to be funny. Show us the funny.

  47. [re=276037]mary[/re]: Reagan firing the aircraft controllers at the beginning of his term, now that was the beginning of a terrible tragedy for our country. President Obama firing His Eminence for poor performance at the start of his first term… well that’s a teachable moment, isn’t it? It just feels right, somehow. Redemptive. Cleansing. Just. It makes me proud to be an American.

    Let’s just call it a better way of incentivizing R&D for the electric car. (As opposed to the guillotine, which in simpler times is where The Richard would have found himself test-driving this year’s model.)

  48. All tremble before the power of Barry Hussein Soetero-Obama.

    A few more heads on pikes around the White House will make it clear who the fuck is in charge now, suckers.

  49. mary:

    Wait, before you go on–

    Drop pants, spread legs, bend over.

    Much better, you may now continue about business ethics. Listen up kids!

  50. Mary said:

    “Now you can go and make all sorts of fun of me, but it’s the beginning of the end.”

    I have dingleberries with higher IQs than you.

    When Mary goes in for a colonoscopy, the nurse tries to shove the scope down her throat.

    The difference between Mary and a full litter box is that Mary is less absorbent.

  51. Yes, Mary, please, enlighten us about these ‘problems’ you fret over so.

    I was completely unaware there was anything wrong with the world these days since I received my free unicorn upon Hopeys election. But you have given me grave pause with your pearl clutching and Very Serious Concern! Oh Fret!!! What to do? Please Mary, help us! Show us the light! You must have the answers??

    And by the way, if you are only now worried about the direction of this country, seems to me then you might just have had your head up your ass for the last few decades.

  52. [Quote]Well, first of all, I am not personally involved in the auto industry.[/quote]

    So basically, you have no idea what the fuck you’re talking about.

  53. Oh, and Mary? If you come to the snarkiest corner of the internet and get all huffy-puffy because of the mockery here, you might want to repoint your browser to the online edition of the Reader’s Digest, where you can read heartwarming anecdotes about paper boys and grandpas that don’t end with the mutilated and violated remains of the paper boy buried in grandpa’s basement.

  54. Is it any surprise that the Party of Personal Responsibility gets upset when an incompetent CEO is asked to step down before his company — that’s come begging — can get a cash infusion? Wagoner’s known for years that GM’s numbers wouldn’t add up. GM has crawled along on a completely unworkable business model for years, and predicting GM’s eventual doom has been a money mag staple for years.

    If Obama forces them to restructure in 60 days and they succeed, the Democrats will call him a Democrat, blacks will call him a black man, and Republicans will ignore him. If it fails, the Democrats will call him a socialist, the Republicans will call him a Muslim, and Muslims will call him a Jew. (with apoligies to Einstein, I think).

  55. My dad bought a brand new Chevy Silverado back in 1980. The engine started leaking oil as soon as it got a little hot from, you know, running it. He tried very bravely to get it fixed only to end up spending about half of what he ha dpaid for the damn thing. He’s been a Camry driver ever since–except for that time he bought a Yugo back in ’88 but he recovered.

  56. Hey Mary, your daddy buy you that fancy furrin car? What, he not patriotic or summin? I’s so unitellectual and shit. Also, I hate America and want it to fail.

  57. [re=276060]mary[/re]: I would have a LOT more sympathy for the management of our domestic auto makers, if, when they were making $10,000 PER UNIT profits on SUVs (not my stats, but what I read in Time magazine during the 1990s), they had enough FORESIGHT to take those profits and re-tool for the day when the last drop of fossil fuel is dug from the ground; or tried to buy out a lot of those full-health-coverage plans for retirees who left the plants 20, 30, 40 years ago.

    Instead, the short sighted fucks rewarded themselves. We have out-sourced all kinds of jobs in MY field (software development). Why not out-source the TOP JOBS in ALL of our “at risk” industries?

    Companies go to India and hire 3 or 4 software devlopers of supposed equal capability for 1 guy like me. Rick Wagoner sent no sympathy cards to any of my friends; why in the fuck do you think I’ll shed any tears for HIM?

    There ought to be 3 or 4 FUCKUPS in India that we can hire at a fraction of what we’ve paid as a society for the CEO FUCKUPS at:

    Lehman Brothers
    Bear Stearns
    Fannie Mae / Freddie Mac

    and let us not forget


  58. [re=276077]NunnaTheSOBs[/re]: I agree. I’m tired of us bailing out companies which deserve to go bankrupt. When Ford began losing money, it went on a self-restructuring campaign. Why did GM and Chrysler not do the same? The fact that the Obama Administration is going to give these companies more money annoys me, but ousting the CEO of GM does make me feel just a little better. However, in my opinion GM has already spiraled too far down–can it realistically survive? Not only does it have to start making money, but it has to pay back all of its debt. At this point I think the bailout money will just prolong its eventual bankruptcy.

    -Mr. Bill

  59. [re=276062]boy_howdy[/re]: Now that you mention it, it’s really the economic equivalent of neoconservative foreign policy. On your first day in the prison yard, scuff up a few people so they know you’re not going to take any shit. Treat friends and enemies alike as steer that need to be wrestled to the ground, and don’t take any guff from them when you’re the one with the real power. In fact, I’ll be Bill Kristol is writing an essay supportive of that perspective right now.

  60. [re=276060]mary[/re]: I think you were missing the point of Rick & Co’s little “pass the hat” trip to DC a couple months ago. They were out of money. Broke. Consequently, the auto industry fails if the government isn’t running it. It has nothing to do with attitude, loyalty and patriotism and everything to do with the fact that they blew their wad on Hummers as gas prices spiraled out of control. GM makes bad, gas-guzzling cars that are consistently out-performed by their Japanese competitors and have been for decades now. The moral of the auto industry bailout is, in the words of the Buffalo Beast, “So you don’t want to buy our shitty cars? We’re taking your money anyway, thanks America!”

  61. [re=276079]MFAWG[/re]: I have not yet acquired the TruckNutz. I will consult with the husband who actually drives the Honda. I did see a similar item on another truck in a parking lot of a pig riding a Harley-Davidson for which I felt a certain yearning, but it would never look right on a Geo Prizm.

    [re=276060]mary[/re]: It has nothing to do with Rick. It has everything to do with you all. Bob Nardelli made what? 230 million dollars when he left Home Depot. For running it into the ground.
    Attention Wonketteers! Which one(s) of you gave Nardelli 230 million dollars for doing bad things to Home Depot?? And how did you do it, and could you give us all a cut next time?

  62. Anybody notice the alt-text change – no doubt under the SATANIC SOCIALIST MUSLIN INFLUENCE OF THAT NI-… THAT AMERICA-HATING COMMUNIST NOBAMA!!!1!!… right, [re=276047]mary[/re]?

  63. [re=276080]billorders84[/re]: I actually sympathize with the people who had NOTHING to do with the bad decisions that the Rick Wagoners made, but have to suffer the PAIN. Everybody isn’t going to be an engineer, a writer or a damn investment banker. My people were farmers before WW II, then factory workers afterward. I am ENRAGED by the TREASON of the Rick Wagoners of this world — and I think TREASON is not too strong a word. They have done much more to hollow out the economy of this country than any old Cold War era soviet spy ever did.

    And I’m supposed to SYMPATHIZE with HIM? and all those fucking BANKSTERS who make those little saggy pants “gansta rapper” punks look like a bunch of brownie scouts?

  64. [re=276006]unfreakingbelievable[/re]: You can’t be any older than me cause I got rear ended in a Pinto once. What the hell are you going to do when Obama gives everyone socialized medicine not just us olds? You have got to calm down or you won’t make it thru the whole eight years.
    Back on topic try this, he flew on his private jet for the first 17 Billion now he’s here with his hand out again for 14 more? He couldn’t turn the company around since he took over in 2003? The only thing I know that GM makes good any more is trucks and now he can’t sell enough of those to stay in business. He won’t be going hungry like his factory workers and he will get another job if he wants it.Shareholders?If they are still holding they are all pretty pleased he’s gone so easy considering what the laws now say a shareholders rights are and how low their shares are thanks to Wagoner’s leadership. His parachute is going to be amazing and he will be falling on his sword for the company he loves. See? It’s all good. Don’t keep buying GM shares though until they make a car you would drive and can pay for. Hopefully you have gone to bed and are sleeping this late at night.

  65. [re=276080]billorders84[/re]: How about requiring GM, etc., to repatriate the production that goes on at GM Brazil and other foreign plants before they get a dime of American tax money – or, and also repatriate the profits they’ve been stuffing into Cayman Islands mail-drops to avoid paying US corp taxes – get that done, then see what the Treasury can do to meet GM halfway…

  66. [re=276047]mary[/re]: And it is amusing to me that someone that is obviously not that bright comes here, makes a couple of personal attacks on the community, then wonders why everyone thinks they are an asshole.

    To each their own, I guess.

  67. Mary, I think this dude getting fired or resigning, whatever, is actually good for the company – they need fresh face and someone who is not tainted by the bad decisions and the horrible legacy.

    Having said I think Hopey’s bullying of the Auto industry instead of Wall Street is just curious.– I know they have messed up but outside influence had some impact on their failure than the bankers who caused theirs. I also was not encouraged by Barry suggesting that the workers needed to sacrifice. Give me a freaking break – you can’t ask these fat Wall Street cats to give back their ill begotten gains and you are picking on poor pensioners and assembly workers. I usually defend Barry when Daily Kos folks are having their usual freak outs but I am really disappointed here.

  68. Mary loves this country, and she fears for it. And it seems like the voices of our leaders, and special interests, and the media, they’re surrounding us, and it’s intimidating.

  69. [re=276060]mary[/re]: I would have more respect for the auto industry if they had not spent the last 30 years fighting cafe standards and just put some of their R&D into alternatives to gas. They were fools for not doing so. The products they make belong to the past. I want a plug in car, and am sitting on my ’97 Toyota until I can buy a car that uses either no gas or gets 100 miles to the gallon.

    The car companies were selfish and shortsighted, not loyal or patriotic. karma is a bitch.

    [re=276094]Bearbloke[/re]: A friend of mine said something similar; that they should be required to use the bail out money on their plants in this US America.

  70. You know what killed this country? Tailgate parties.

    Once the revenue from leaden hot dogs and salted beer was half-nelsoned from the team owners and granbied into the parking lots, we should have all foreseen that Communism had overtaken the sacred democratic principles of the U.S.A.

    Only when arbitrary concession holders can stuff “foods” that are 98% filler into the gullets of hungry thrill seekers can we truly be called a capitalist society. Only when “drinks” that are mostly phosphoric acid and sugar quench the thirst of the unruly mob can we claim equilibrium.

    These tailgaiters with their angry assessment of society and marginally healthy foods doom us all. For they would choose foods that don’t contain spinal fluid or some chemical dreamed up in a New Jersey lab. How can we protect ourselves against these hooligans?

    BUY the six dollar saltpeter beer in the stadium. BUY the mysterious yet oddly beckoning meat products from the stadium concession stands where you get treated like a slice of turd. BUY American!

  71. [re=276096]Bearbloke[/re]: Well he’s old and I’m worried about his blood pressure but he’s not so old that he can’t remember what the fuck he’s so mad at which is too bad for the whole world + interenetz. I’m at the vampire stage and only sleep at dinner parties after dessert is served or on line waiting for checkout.
    Mary who knows Mr. Wagoner but still has time for us has no job to lose so I can’t imagine why she cares who runs GM the rest of the way into the ground. Some terrible demon gate has been left open.

  72. [re=276101]DC Hates Me[/re]: “And it seems like the voices of our leaders, and special interests, and the media, they’re surrounding us, and it’s intimidating.”

    When you are surrounded by intimidating voices, that’s when you can be sure you’ve checked out.

  73. Wait, Mary is thinking that real estate will go down in Grosse Point,MI if one richer than God failure of a CEO is asked to resign. Maybe we should tell her that if her home is over valued she can just walk away let the bank have it back and then re purchase it at a lower more reasonable price? Or go to tent town?I do wonder why she didn’t buy something for all cash since she is Conservative.I hope she wasn’t sucked into greedy behavior by the glint of granite counter tops.

  74. I must say it was a rather nice piece of WingSpeak:

    ‘Do any of you know any thing about BidNess Or Cars?’

    ‘Umm, yes, we do!’

    ‘No, you don’t’

    ‘No, really, we do!’

    ‘Commies, you are all commies and muslins who don’t understand the Real America or Jeebus!!!!’

  75. I can’t even begin to tell everyone here how proud of you I am. A couple of developmentally disabled dogmatics wandered in, and instead of only ad hominem abusive they were met with a large percentage of facts and honesty. This is the thread unfreakingbelievable and Mary (probably the same person) chose to make a stand in?

    I understand the dumbing down caused by the influence of nationalistic indoctrination, but I was caught off guard by the sheer number of truck nutz zombie talking point recitations in each post. The wingnut propaganda machine has shown significant improvement in mind control. Fox News and the Dittofux should probably tone it down a couple of notches though. Young people tend to party and have teh sex when they hear everything is going to crumble.

    Mary, if you read this, I just want you to know that it doesn’t bother me you claim to know Rick Wagoner. That wouldn’t diminish the times we could have together. It’s true, what they say. Anal only hurts the first couple of times, and then you grow to enjoy it. I could show you, and I come with great references.

  76. Correct me if I’m wrong, but Mary’s main point is this: the failure of GM isn’t a result of profoundly shortsighted management decisions, it’s the result of OUR failure to be patriotic and buy their shitty second-rate product. Riiiight.

  77. [re=275971]comradepaulson[/re]: As a fellow Michigander (but a wolverine), I will also join in this fray:
    Thanks for being one of the fucktards who lead our state into the shitter, Rick. You will be missed.

  78. Come to think of it, just about anything is a good excuse to have teh sex. What could I have been thinking?

    Can I still go up in the rapture if I’m getting busy? What about if I drive a Prius? If I get a sloppy, wet Hummer, do I have to sacrifice and drive a GM as penance? What are the guidelines for this miracle? Do I have to be xenophobic, judgmental, scared of the vast left wing conspiracy, ashamed of my body, guilty about pleasure, frightened of knowledge and free will? Or do I just have to listen to Rush?

    Please let me know ASAP, because I don’t want to hurt Jesus by being too normal.

  79. [re=276124]marioninnyc[/re]: Agree! I’d tell him the following: The nation chose to take a collective gamble on ‘hope’ and ‘change’ – so let’s see some already, Barry! The folk who hate you will always hate you, and the folk who voted for you are waiting to get the ‘change’ on… and dismissing Wagoner is a damn good first step.

    Now, Mr. President – how about overturning all Bush era bullshit, and how about overturning the “Financial Services Modernization Act” that got us into this mess, and how about telling the banksters “OK, here’s a line of credit, for you to use only for domestic commercial-bank lending activities – the whole bundle will be carefully, constantly, publicly audited and monitored – if a penny goes into some CEO’s solid gold toilet, your ass is going to Federal Prison. Now start renegotiating those home loan for people who want to pay you to stay in their only home, but can’t handle the balloon-mortgage. Invest wisely, revive your company on you own dime, and don’t waste the public’s money. If your company survives, then good job – if your company fails, then at least you won’t further damage the nation’s economy. Those are the new rules – take it or leave it, but get out of my office and get to work.”

  80. [re=276116]obfuscator[/re]: Right, cause a free market encourages innovation and competition so you can buy the best product at the best price. Which wingnuts are really really in favor of. Except when they’re not.

  81. No one has given american cars a chance in the last five years.

    An interesting metric. My little Nissan is on year 11, with 250k miles on it, and three trips to burning man. I have driven up and down all of the mountains on the west coast. When the fords in your life have trouble getting out of the parking lot at 40k, you start to see the suck.

  82. [re=275976]DangerousLiberal[/re]: Citation? Americans were once able to buy a car called “Citation?” This beats the Ford Prefect and Indian Ambassador by far.

  83. So OK..Totally agree that its good that this guy, if not most or all “Chiefs” be out on there ass.
    But, government controlling business is not the answer. Not on a grand scale. Look around and tell me what countries enjoy the prosperity we have that let government control business. And government here in the US isnt a shining example of responsibility or success. Private enterprise has its faults sure. It needs to be regulated better, not taken over. Government cant do much of anything right. They may be able to help in this particular situation, but I definately dont want them running the whole show.

  84. [re=276155]praetorian[/re]: Government does a lot of things right if they get their heads on straight and listen to Jesus. That’s why I demand the government outlaw abortion, homosexuality, contraception, pornography, and everything else. That way the only way you can express yourself is to buy shit. Choice in America is all about the freedom to choose to buy shit. Otherwise, Jesus is going to eat you all like a bag of chee-tos.

    What government really needs to do is regulate your private life until you have none, and let the business people do what Jesus says they ought to do, which is destroy the middle East entirely and bring about the end times. Amen!

  85. praetorian and dchatesme: I think a lot of these other people have had the porno sites blocked by their wives, because they seem to be using this site to get off on themselves.

  86. [re=276155]praetorian[/re]: Well to be fair they asked for the money and the Goverment seems to be working much better now than GM, a business.
    It’s a loan, like when you ask your parents for money because you fucked up and can’t pay your rent or MC card. If you are a good kid then you really will pay it back if not then you will break your poor mom’s heart. Anyway your father says he’s had enough and there will be some changes. Easier to understand? I don’t see how much more simpler we can make it and really the problem was getting into the debt business instead of making cars. Personally I wouldn’t care if GM failed but apparently it’s someplace where some people still work and double digit unemployment is a bigger problem among the people who have to earn a living than the Lady Mary’s of The Grosse Points, friend of CEOs. Go figure!
    And why cling to the government is no good thing? We can run Iraq but not GM? Why doesn’t Iraq *pay for it’s self* after eight years? In fact let GM run Iraq for awhile off of their profits until the loans are paid off.Isn’t Iraq filled with GM trucks I’ve been paying for all these years?

  87. Wow, I go away and weep over the Sparty win, and all this crap happens.

    I’m a native Michiganian, and lemme tell you folks, the bonus checks were rolling in the late 90s.

    So let’s review. Mega-scare in the 80s and early 90s, then gravy train in the late 90s. And the price of gas was going to do whaaaaaaaaaaa? in the future….drop to $0.50/gal.

    Now there’s some good folks in MI and all you can say is the little guy will get screwed. And yes I’ve driven an import and before that I test-drove all sorts of US cars.

    Hm, import with mega safety, seats five, good mileage, lasts forever…$28K

    Hm, domestic seats five, need an upgrade for overhead air bags, decent mileage, Chrysler….$37K.

    You do the math.

    For all you outsiders, let me give you the inside dope. Ford has improved greatly, finally put some good mileage cars out there.

    Chrysler….great designers, but the absolute worst when it comes to reliability.

    GM….horrible designers, except for the Buick folks maybe (and that skews older), horrible management, and spotty reliability, closer to Chrysler and farther away from Ford.

    That is how it is.

    And as much as I’d like my home state to have a rip-roaring good time, you tell me why the Big 3 wasn’t putting tons of safety and such in their cars WHEN the furriners were doing it.

    Screw R&D, they weren’t even aware of the competition.

    And, yes, the Bank CEOs should be held to account, blah blah blah.

    We’ll hear from any industry that’s in trouble. Maybe they should do a Farm Aid for the Big 3 (or 2 and a Half) and call it Gravy Aid.

  88. [re=276006]unfreakingbelievable[/re]: ZOMG!!! Not … not … the precious “free market as we know it”!?!?!

    I’d *love* to say goodbye to *that* travesty. It’s not “free”, for one thing. It’s heavily rigged, and the mythical invisible hand has been stuffing its invisible pockets for a long long time.

    Odd that you’re the only person here who can’t see the rigging. Guess you believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny, along with the benevolent Free Market fairies.

    Yeah. It sucks that the government has to step in. But right now, they suck less than all the thieves who ran this shit into the ground. Maybe if those fuckers wanted government to stay out of their faces, they shouldn’t have just stolen everything, huh?

  89. [re=276156]ForTheTurnstiles[/re]: Amen.[re=276172]PsycGirl[/re]: Weird, because Denby thinks we are all girls. I wonder what draws her here? The smelly buttsecks probably and the Blingee’s, like a moth to a flame or mosquitoes. Well, I leave you for awhile to go yell at my banksters and cheer up my dog. Have fun with Miss Mary and close the screen door or the house will be full of them. I’ll be back when the drugs wear off. I need to make a copy of the Condo Fucks for the grandchildren. It’s never too soon.

  90. [re=276037]mary[/re]:

    > “You should drop to your knees and pray for your future and for the future of your children if you have any.”

    That’s been true for the past 8 years, Mary. Why weren’t you kvetching *then*?

    > “You can make your snide remarks and your personal comments about Rick Wagoner. I happen to know the guy and if you knew him too you’d be ashamed of what you’re reading here.”

    Mrs. Wagoner, is this really appropriate here? I hear Hitler was really nice to his dogs, too. And his secretary just thought he was a peach of a fellow.

    > “I’m afraid this is just the beginning of a terrible tragedy for our country.”

    *Just the beginning*??? Where the sam hill have you *been* for the past 8 years? You’ve been fine with these dudes robbing us blind and shipping our jobs overseas, but *now* you’re starting to worry? That’s what I just can’t get about you Righties: “Ooooo … *now* things are going to suck!”

    Things have *been* sucking. The groundwork for this was laid a long time ago, and now the bills are coming due, as it were.

  91. [re=276042]mary[/re]: Appar[re=276062]boy_howdy[/re]: Don’t bother. Repubs like mary have just snoozed happily through every political horror, every rip-off (Enron, Keating Five, Neil Bush’s S&L Scandal), every abuse of power of the past 30 years (although they woke up screaming when Clinton got a BJ and … *LIED ABOUT IT*, oh, the horror!!!)

    But *now* they’re worried.

    Now that a few rich people are actually being held accountable.

    Now they’re wringing their hands.

    You wanna talk about “unfreakingbelievable” …

  92. [re=276094]Bearbloke[/re]: Exactly. Any company that receives help from the American taxpayer needs to bring their factories back to the US, and their money back from the Cayman Islands.

  93. [re=276101]DC Hates Me[/re]: I love this country and have feared for it for 30 years. Do *I* get a prize, too?


    Folks who’ve *just now*, since the Dark.Democrat was elected, started “fearing for our country” deserve nothing but the fiercest and most strident ridicule. You think people who claim to love our country so damned much would have bothered to be *awake* to notice the abuses and the thefts and the hollowing out of our nation since the days of Saint Reagan. And you’d really think they’d have taken to the streets in fury over the past 8 years.

    But no. They were fine with it, until McCain/Palin lost this election.

    They can sit on it and spin.

    BTW, any other folks here who read comments from Republican Retards notice how now they’re all afraid of the FEMA camps???? Man, we left-leaners used to think *we’d* be the ones to end up in those camps, since the legend has it that Cheney built them.

    The camps, like the rot of the nation, have been here for years.

    But *now* the Right is scared.

    Sigh …

  94. [re=276235]iolanthe[/re]: BTW, any other folks here who read comments from Republican Retards notice how now they’re all afraid of the FEMA camps???

    Ah, Camp FEMA, where activities include learning to deal with being stuck up Shit Creek w/o paddle, eating crow and glancing around nervously when Kumbaya time rolls around.

  95. Hey Mary, I live in Ann Arbor,Michigan and I see daily the devastation the Big 3 has wrought. Rick is a good man, but he has run GM into the ground. They fought tooth and nail to keep their inflated SUVs on the road and ignored what the Japanese were doing as long as they could. They tried to get back in the game 5 years ago but you can’t overcome 20 years of R&D overnight.

    I really like Ford’s new Fusion hybrid. I think they have a chance. GM – I don’t know so much about. Their products other than Saturn have never appealed to me or were ridiculously overpriced (see Buick Enclave – basically 10k more than comparable Nissan or Honda).

  96. [re=276252]horned_viper[/re]: You are a hippie and hand out the Socialist Worker at the People’s Food Co-op near Kerrytown.

  97. I love the conservative bellyaching about socialism. Oh, Obama is a totalitarian African dictator, wihtout the giant square eyeglasses, telling fully grown capitalist heros when to come and go. Lets ask ourselves exactly how a CEO last seen crawling up the steps of the capitol for bailout funds can expect to arrive back a work without seeing a big box cardboard on his desk. The senior management of toyota, losing money this year (for the first time EVER) but not exactly a ward of the state, voluntarily stepped down. And, BTW, Toyota chief execs may 1/10th of a U.S. auto exec.

    If Wagoner had an ounce of self respect, and if U.S. laws allowed shareholders and stakeholders any useful power, Wagoner would have been cashiered years ago. And moreover, lets speak from knowledge about overreaching into corporate affairs. Its not shareholders, but the board who hires and fires management. And major creditors on whom a firm depends, i.e., us now, can have a CEO’s head on a plate whenever they see fit. A lot more heads at GM need to roll.

  98. Grew up in Detroit – left as soon as possible.

    Last two cars I rented – PT Curiser & Chrysler 300.
    PT Cruiser had a piece of chrome on the dash that would blind the driver & passenger when hit by the sun!

    Chrysler 300 had the stick for the cruise control right where the turnsignal should be – and WTF is up with a separate stick for the cruise control???? My old Toyota has this combined in one device.

    Where was the GM BoD when Wagoner lost $80B in three years??? The rightwingers in my office are appalled at the govt taking action on a “private” company. When you take govt money, expect to have a new set of rules to operate under!

    Rant over….

  99. [re=276235]iolanthe[/re]: Agree! I see all kinds of Reich-wing crap about That Awful Negro Obama-nation taking our bibles away, making us wear Mao-jackets and forcing us all to get gay-married. These asshats don’t know (or care to know) that the only time representatives of the Govt went on a gun-grabbing trip was when George Dumbya let his boyfriends at Blackwater do it. The “Mary”s of the nation are worried about their civil rights, but didn’t say a GODDAMN THING about it when Bush tried to kill Posse Comitatus and hobble the 4th Amendment.

    I hope Mary and her ilk tremble in fear of That One for every day of the next 8 years.

  100. Grew up in Michigan. After a stint in Communist NYC I returned during the early 1990’s to witness to the “SUV Boom” before fleeing to Socialist California (thank God). I feel for my family and everybody I know in Michigan suffering from the fucked economy there. It has been fucked for at least five years, if not longer.

    No Mary, I was never involved in the auto industry but I have known that GM has made shitty products forever and that the Big Three have consistently been on the wrong side of all things that involve evolving beyond their crappy calcified business models.
    GM started down this path by destroying mass transit in Detroit- totally self-serving and painfully short-sighted, like everything they have ever done. They are dinosaurs and Rick Wagoner is a fucking tool.

  101. My dad owns a wholesale car lot, which I have worked on for a couple years. Thirty years in the business have given him the ability to name any car by model and year at a glance, and appraise it in another. He has fixed up practically every vehicle under the sun, at this point. And he will tell you exactly what he thinks about GM vehicles, in no uncertain terms. It is not kind. Just for reference, of all the cars he has bought for my family, three-quarters are Toyota, and none are American. Not even his pickup truck.

    Everyone saying that nobody’s giving the GM’s of the last five years a chance. I wonder why they stop at five? Maybe that’s because GMs tend to fall to fucking pieces before four years. It’s hard to give a shit about the last five years of American cars when my thirteen-year-old Toyota, which I have driven since the day I got a license, runs absolutely perfectly. Whereas the Caddy with 250,000 miles on it will never see the road again, much less run well with its goddamned unservicable Northstar engine. Fuck GM, that is all.

  102. Yeah, you said it man!
    Rick Wagoner is evil. We need the government to take over the auto industry. In fact we need the government to take over everything! Historically, we all know that socialism is always successful!!! I mean that’s why citizens of all the third world countries all want to come here. Because of our Socialism…. Banks, The Environment, Medicine…all of it. We need stricter regulations that destroy any incentives for people to want to be self sufficient. After all, the government always makes everything better when it gets involved with anything. I mean, just look at er ummm….. I just want the government to take care of me, because I can not take care of myself. I just too weak and pathetic. I admit it. Thank God Obama has such a great track record as a leader. He took econ 101 and knows that the way to get out of debt is to borrow more money and take over industries that are the backbone of our country…and destroy them. We need to be told what to make and how much. Because we are too stupid to think for ourselves.Also, thank Allah Obama has proposed a smart energy plan so we can be told when to turn off our lights and AC; and when it is OK to turn them on. Because, quite frankly, I like you am just too stupid to look at my thermostat. The government will save me from my own stupidity.
    Hell, why not “bail out” GM. They should not be allowed to file for to bankruptcy. After Chapter 11 would have prevented the wonderful unions from continuing to help businesses thrive. UNIONS NEED MORE POWER! After all we deserved to be attacked on 9/11 we are a greedy country. We should all take our money put it into a big pot and divvy it up evenly. No matter how hard we work or how much we make, we should all be equal. It’s only fair. Meanwhile I be happy in my Toyota Prias giving my middle finger to all those evil old white buffoons. Gosh I am just so glad to learn there are so many pathetic dependents out there like ME. All hail Obama!

  103. [re=276171]mary[/re]: Joke’s on you mary! I’ve got porn AND Wonkette. Double the windows, double the fun! I thought you were gone forever when you wished us all a Happy Depression the second time. I’m glad you’re not. You’re neat, in a sanctimonious, talking-out-of-your-ass sort of way.

  104. [re=276172]PsycGirl[/re]: Didn’t Denby think we were all snarky, menstruating women? Now mary thinks we’re all masturbation-starved, hen-pecked married men. WTF.

  105. [re=276587]Briana[/re]: I’d reply, but your rambling sarcasm took entirely too long to read and I lost interest. Brevity, Briana, brevity.

  106. [re=276587]Briana[/re]: Oh, did mary or somebody tell you to come over here and stick up for her and the poor little rightwingers? Or are you just mary’s sockpuppet?

    Socialism of the model used in much of Western Europe *is* successful.

    Believing it has never been successful is part of your Righty Catechism of Lies and Bullshit Assumptions That Will Bite You Guys in the Ass (RCoLaBATHWBYGitA). They’ve already bitten you in the ass. That’s why you all lost this election.

    When you continue to believe shit that isn’t true, actual reality and actual events will continue to gobsmack you, and continue to lose you guys elections, despite your stranglehold on most of the corporate media, including *all* of talk radio.

    Plenty of Third World citizens are also hot to go to Denmark, the Netherlands, France, Sweden, and Spain, etc., countries you would consider socialist. And they do go. So the US now fails your oh-so-clever “Which way is the traffic going across the border?” test, beloved of Conservatives since the 1950s. In fact, people who came here to participate in our economy are now packing up and going home, now that your friends have succeeded in gutting it.

    People do not detest these corporate economic rapists because “I just want the government to take care of me, because I can not take care of myself. I (sic) just too weak and pathetic.” This is another silly Righty RCoLaBATHWBYGitA meme that simply isn’t true. I know you have to tell yourself this shit, paint yourselves as the Strong Wise Ones, but can’t you see that a corporate-controlled America is *WORSE* than an America controlled by government bureaucracy? At least we all have some influence over what the government does. Corporations answer to no one but their boards and their stockholders.

    How the hell do private citizens “take care of themselves” when powerful corporations are abusing them and abusing our system? By electing people who will stop them from gaming the system to pad their own pockets. Government has to step in when no one else is minding the store. Obama is not the one who destroyed the “industries that are the backbone of the country”. The industries did this to themselves by failing to create good products, and by shifting their emphasis to just stuffing their own pockets as quickly as they could.

    I know it’s comforting for you self-righteous schmucks to believe that everyone who disagrees with your dumb economic fairytale about Holy Business is either a Welfare Recipient or a Wealthy Trustafarian or some kind of weakling, but again, this is going to bite you in the ass.

    And I fully believe you are too stupid to look at your thermostat.

    You also clearly believe it’s your patriotic duty to piss away energy — I mean, my God, it’s infinite, right? How *DARE* the government regulate an increasingly scarce resource we all need to survive!

    As for your snark about unions, it’s not like *you* ever benefited from any worker protections ever, right? You’d like to return to the days when people worked fifteen hours a day, seven days a week, for a few handfuls of food, I’m sure.

    You just suck.
    It’s that simple.

    (Now I want a medal for wading through that pisspool she poured, and for taking time to respond to its most egregiously stupid assumptions.)

  107. [re=276858]iolanthe[/re]: Medal of Internutz Honor granted, you are just plain fantastic. I hope the medal makes up for the fact that “Briana” is functionally incapable of comprehending the thrust of your arguments.

    P.S. Did I mention that you’re completely awesome, also?

  108. [re=276634]TexasCowGirl[/re]: LOL… Yes! At the very least Wagoner deserves to be on the receiving end of a prison gang-bang, along with all of the bank/car industry Robber Barons: (per [re=276077]NunnaTheSOBs[/re]: )

    Lehman Brothers
    Bear Stearns
    Fannie Mae / Freddie Mac
    …and anyone else who is a complete failure yet is still demanding my tax dollars from the government so they can buy themselves a shiny new Lear jet/McMansion/Penile Implant.

    Fuck ’em all. Why not? They’ve all been fucking us in the ass, (FOR YEARS, “MARY,” FYI) and Bush took away the remainder of the lube.

    If Obama presented the dreaded “nationalization” option to the American people as a temporary Punishment for these incompetent assholes, people would cheer it on with a damned ticker tape parade instead of indulging in paranoid conspiracy theories about socialism.

  109. [re=276858]iolanthe[/re]: I do hereby bestow upon iolanthe the Distinguished Series of Tubes Cross for wading through that tortuously written pile of bullshit and nobly picking out the undigested kernels of lie-corn and whole propaganda-peanuts and responding to them in detail.

    Allow me to second [re=276884]Zadig[/re]: in saying that you are awesome and Wonketteers thank you for your service.

  110. Brian = Mary = not very clever ruse and/also = one of the shrinking number of rubes who continue to vote against their own economic self-interest. Just give it a little time, friends. Demographics and Darwin’s Law will destroy the Republican party. We don’t have to do a thing.

  111. [re=276858]iolanthe[/re]: Thanks so much for that.

    After reading that “regulations that destroy incentives for people to be self-sufficient” I was crippled by a fit of laughter.
    Briana must be spending too much time sucking Rush’s ass-vapors. Either that or she just finished reading “The Fountainhead” and she is 12 years old.

  112. [re=276997]MarSF[/re]: I backed off of it, but I was going to say something like this:

    You know, all those silly Socialist regulations against mugging people *totally* destroy my incentive to be self-sufficient! It’s so unfair!

    I was going to deduct the cost of my gun and ammunition as a business expense, too. But no, it turns out that Evil Socialist Laws keep me from working hard and exercising my talents to pry money away from all those whiny weaklings who expect the silly government to protect their weak pale asses.

    Fucking laws. Always going after decent hardworking people like me. Oh, let me self-pityingly invoke the story of Harrison Bergeron and the Handicapper General, and *cry* for the ways we enterprising predators are misunderstood and caged-in and held back and stifled, while these Law and Government things protect our inferiors, who clearly do not *deserve* to keep their money when faced with a creative hard-working up-and-comer such as I!

    Speaking of “The Fountainhead”, I have two gems for you all:

    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life:
    The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that
    often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading
    to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with
    the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”

    And this:

  113. [re=276858]iolanthe[/re]: she doesnt understand “gobsmack’ — the American Idol judges don’t use that word , and she hasnt yet come across it any of her Dan Brown novels.
    It seems hard for Briana to believe that 3rd worlders might actually want to go to a country where a person might make some decent money, and have it be commensurate with a standard of living. Imagine being able to actually afford a visit with a medical professional when you fall sick.. OH THOSE STUPID ,SLACK-JAWED IMMIGRANTS!

  114. [re=276006]unfreakingbelievable[/re]: Since the “free market” permitted this company to crank out supremely shitty cars for decades, refuse to change with the times, and operate in the red for God knows how long while its chief executives made money hand over fist, you’ll see no tears here. Wagoner would have been out under any legitimate Chapter 11 plan anyway (and the shareholders should have put him out on his ass before now, but they didn’t, so someone else did — again, no tears). Second, this is hardly the first time the government has intervened with one of the Big Three — you say we’re young, but you’ve apparently forgotten the Chrysler bailout — and I think we managed to avoid turning communist after that.

  115. [re=276060]mary[/re]: It’s odd — I’d thought GM’s current status was its management’s fault for general incompetence and specifically making a product that wasn’t dependable, efficient, well-made, or competitively priced, and now you’re telling me that it’s my fault for not being patriotic enough to buy a product that wasn’t dependable, efficient, well-made, or competitively priced. Then again, you’re friends with Ricky Wagoner, so I assume that you’re writing from a five-bedroom in Grosse Pointe, the closest you’ve actually ever been to Motor City is the Neiman Marcus in Troy, and you’re about as in touch with the real world as Peggy Noonan, so I can’t be mad at you for your jackass point of view.

    As for what’s in your garage, I assume that the American car is a tricked-out 2009 Escalade and the foreign car is a 1975 Dacia 1300. Because that’s the only comparison I can think of where you could conclude that they “both run equally well.”

  116. Good riddance hopefully Gm will get someone in who will push hydrogen fuelled cars like Honda are doing that is the future not the silly volt! He resigned because most likely Obama or the GM directors said “look take this load of cash and go but shhhh”. Happens all the time. Got some great infor on whats happening on the car industry here if your interested

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