Reporter David Leonhardt at your liberal elitist rag the New York Times has a little thingy today about how nobody wants to buy American cars these days, and this is why Detroit finds itself in such an awkward no-cash-havin’ situation. While it is true that nobody wants to buy American cars, it is also true that nobody wants to buy any cars, Japanese, Korean, German, whatever, and your editor, after doing a fair amount of crapping on Detroit lately, has begun to see the error of her ways.
Here is what Leonhardt has to say:
[T]he main problem facing Detroit, overwhelmingly, is not the pay gap. That’s unfortunate because fixing the pay gap would be fairly straightforward. The real problem is that many people don’t want to buy the cars that Detroit makes. Fixing this problem won’t be nearly so easy. The success of any bailout is probably going to come down to Washington’s willingness to acknowledge as much.
And yet! Lookee at auto sales for November. Terrible across the board:
General Motors’ November US sales plunged 41%, while Ford’s dropped 31% … Toyota’s November sales tumbled 34%, and Honda’s fell 32%.
So it is not exactly accurate to suggest that suddenly, in the fourth quarter of 2008, America woke to the extreme crappiness of its domestically made cars and made a principled stand to stop buying them. Instead one might suggest that Detroit’s sudden cash problem has to do with credit markets drying up, so people can’t get car loans, and then those few who can get car loans being too busy about OH LOSING THEIR JOBS & HOUSES ETC. to take on extra debt.
Sure, American automakers were extra screwed by a sudden drop in demand, due to their comparatively high overhead and terrible management and so on. But if trends continue, do not be surprised if Toyota and Honda need a bailout soon, too — they’ll just be asking the government of Japan for it. In the meantime, smart investors are putting big bets on bicycles: they’re the zero-emissions stuff-movin’ device that’s been popular ever since Jesus!
Special thanks to Wonkette Operative Dan for bringing this subtle concept to our attention.
$73 an Hour: Adding It Up [New York Times]
GM Sales Off 41%; Toyota, Ford, Honda All Down 30% [AP]
{ 89 comments }
Economic misery for everyone!
Merry Christmas and “Happy” New Year.
From your friends on Wall St.
Can’t bicycle to work in winter in Wisconsin. You can make a passable set of snowshoes out of tennis rackets though.
Stories about cars in the Times are kind of inherently lame, since no one who works there has ever driven one.
It’s all the UAW’s fault, because they demanded wages. If the free market were allowed to be truly free, we could use serfs, just like back in the good old days before the masses got all uppity.
Thank you. The Big Three have engaged in decades of intermittent of extreme mismanagement (punctuated with some years of just marginal incompetence–Yay, the good times!) and general suckiness, but to claim that three companies that together have about 50 percent of the market are suffering because “no one wants to buy their product” is beyond stupid.
Let’s also please not forget that many people wanted giant SUVs and pickup trucks and were very happy to buy them from the Big Three (and Toyota) until gas spiked to $4 a gallon. Of course, now that gas is cheap again no one can afford fancy trucks because they can’t get loans from GMAC if their credit scores are less than 700 and their houses are worth nothing. And they have no jobs.
Detroit’s problem is that car makers can’t turn on a dime, but demand can. And that’s what happened. Gasoline prices shot up by 400%, and suddenly no one wanted Hummers and F150s and the like. I don’t know of any manufacturing industry that could have made an equivalent conversion from oversized, gas-guzzling symbols of wealth to tiny, gas-efficient pedal cars overnight. Most manufacturing takes significant time and expense to set up the methods of production.
That said, businesses do occasionally fail, because demand turns on a dime. That is the way the market works.
What ever happened to the Pacer? I kind of liked that car and would probably buy one if only they came in a model that wasn’t pre-rusted.
I hope there’s a Round 3 in the “Big Three”/Congress match-up, because after going from Lear jets to carpooling, I’m hoping they show up next time hopping off a boxcar in hobo rags.
For years American cars have been synonymous with “crap that breaks easily and doesn’t last long.” Couple that with raising gas prices and low fuel efficiency. That’s the main problem. The other is that the federal government, under Clinton, gave these asshats money to develop a better, more fuel efficient car. Detroit did this, then with the help of the Bush administration they smothered the technology and went back to making Hummers. Now they want money for their failures. The true irony is that the same Republicans that stood with the oil companies and the American auto industry in opposing better fuel efficiency standards, are the SAME Republicans that don’t want to help the industry they helped destroy. Meanwhile, the Dems, who urged these auto-makers to make better cars, are the ones pushing to bail their asses out. It’s really frustrating. That’s why I drive a foreign car.
Well, I guess we’ll have to find new and improved ways to shit on Detroit.
If I’ve said it once, I’ve said it a thousand times: GET A FUCKING HORSE
Alas, cars don not fit in our hobo bindles…
So, really, it all comes back to give people secure jobs so we feel comfy spending monies again? Good luck with that.
I’m going to buy a bottle of whisky and a shotgun and go to Rib Mountain, get drunk, and watch the sun set. So sad….
[re=195495]4tehlulz[/re]:
When America is a Capitalist country again and laborers are paid in coupons that are only valid at the company store (probably Walmart) I’m going to become a folk singer and write a song about the average America worker’s dilemma. It will be called “Serf in USA.”
[re=195498]M. Grumpe[/re]:
It’s no surprise especially when it was the Pacer’s sales slogan:
“You can pick any Pacer color as long as it’s rust.”
@Monsieur Grumpe’ – Yes the AMC Pacer was a sweet ride, but it was no Humber Super Snipe!
http://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/classic-car-images/supersnipe.jpg
In fairness to Leonhardt, SK, he was writing in rebuttal to the other numbnuts who are blaming the unions “$73 an hour wage!!!!” for Detroit’s problems.
As Time Magazine pointed out last week, this is a nonsensical figure. It includes benefits that are non-cash, for example, but have to be justified with a price tag. The actual wage is around $45 an hour, about what Toyota and Mazda are paying their workers, and who were selling cars quite nicely, thank you, until the credit crunch hit.
[re=195501]NoWireHangers[/re]: For years American cars have been synonymous with “crap that breaks easily and doesn’t last long.
That was Detroit in the 1970′s and most of the 1980′s. They are now the equals of the world in reliability. It’s VW and the British marques that are now the real dogs, in terms of shop time needed. There are some exceptions this general rule, of course.
[re=195509]Serolf Divad[/re]: “Serf in USA” effen’ genius.
[re=195511]ManchuCandidate[/re]: I thought it was “Pacer: The Best of American Motors Engineering, Found All Over The Highway”
The absolute worst are these southern congressmen and senators railing against the bailout and complaining about detroit automaker lobbyists. As if those shit-birds didn’t get anything in exchange for tax-free, union-free Jap and Korean auto plants in the south….
I mean, really, the Pacer looked like the land vehicle from “Lost In Space”…
[re=195501]NoWireHangers[/re]: But here’s the thing that I don’t get: the car companies, who are actual companies that manufacture actual things and employ many many many people, get raked over the coals by the public and Congress for asking for $30 billion in loans.
The banks and other financial institutions, who contribute absolutely nothing to anything except manufacturing more pretend wealth, plunge the entire globe into a credit crisis and possible depression, and the government can’t move fast enough to give them a trillion dollars in free cash.
Something ain’t right, and this seems far beyond mere union-busting.
Why don’t Toyota and Honda need bailouts?
The last two Japanese cars I owned ran for over 250,000 miles apiece. The American car I owned before that didn’t even make it to 100,000 before the transmission died. That and the fact that the Big Three have fought every single advance in fuel efficiency and safety tooth and nail long ago convinced me that American manufacturers aren’t going to make anything as good as Honda or Toyota. Now if they’d spent as much on new technology as they did on lobbyists and lawyers to enable their greed, it would be a different story, but — as someone else about to be jobless once explained — they had “other priorities.”
So sure — save the workers’ jobs. But also fire the idiots at the top of each company who have it coming, and make them comply with the laws rather than fight them.
…as car nut I’m gonna have to take this time to dump on the crap Detroit has been manufacturing for the past 30 years. Although they have been closing the quality gap between them and their Japanese counter parts, the perception of the American car as garbage is no ones fault but their own. I can think of numerous American “concept” cars that enthusiast were drooling over but were never put into production(or if they were, they were a totally different vehicle). Instead what we got was the Ford Escort, Chevy Cavalier, Ford Taurus, Chrysler LeBaron, Pontiac Grand Am etc. Despite the fact that they continue to complain about the cost of labor, they seem to fail to mention that Japanese cars sell for a 2 to 3 thousand dollar premium over their domestic counterparts. This proves that Americans will dish out a little extra cash for a “cool” and cutting edge vehicle. The problem here is that Detroit is stuck in the 1980′s(or earlier), this explains why they spend so much time revamping their “new” vehicles to look like the old ones(see: Camaro, Charger, Pt Cruiser, Thunder Bird & HHT). And I’m not going to even get into the fact that they build one car and try and sell it under 20 different names.
[re=195493]Sussemilch[/re]: when you are pulling lath out of the walls to burn to keep the house warm, reserve two to strap to your feet as cross country skis!
[re=195521]Lascauxcaveman[/re]:
True, but American cars still weigh a few hundred pounds too much and have engines that are underpowered for their size. And the big 3 are still too obsessed with gizmos and fancy trim packages that puff up the price.
Ironically, everyone RAVES about Ford’s european line — efficient, sporty, inexpensive cars that practical and fun. Too bad you can’t get them here (though the Focus was a good first step.)
When gasoline and oil spiked so steeply I awoke again to a full appreciation of what a hapless pawn I am. Now I look at buying a car as similar to buying a risky stock in a company I can’t know enough about to purchase safely. I am convinced that no matter how I spend my money it will prove to be foolish. So, I got bad spending aversion. But I still get letters every week from banks offering me great incentives to borrow more money. I must have good credit.
[re=195530]AngryBlakGuy[/re]:
Whoa, don’t mess with the PT cruiser. What is today’s modern white-trash-on-the-go supposed to drive? They don’t make the El Camino anymore!
Did Honda or Toyota come out with anything in recent history as shitty as the Hummer H2?
Suck it like Kwame Detroit.
Of course .JP subsidizes their auto industries. So if Toyota were to try to make a behemoth turd-mobile I suppose they could get their purse strings yanked. Whereas in US America we just cede that oversight to Exxon. Oh wait…
SUCK IT U S AMERICA. USA USA USA!!!
[re=195530]AngryBlakGuy[/re]: Yeah, that last point makes me laugh out loud–I am always seeing “new” types on the road and thinking how many models do you friggin’ need? You are repackging crap over and over. The alleged “business” decisions these companies have been making since the last Chrysler bailout are just stunning in their stupidity.
Honda forever for me.
[re=195526]King of Pants[/re]:
Manufacturing is actually way less important to our economy than the financial companies. Every company and household in the U.S. needs access to capital. Liquidity is like motor oil. Without it, the entire economic engine seizes up.
Manufacturing is not inherently important if we have lots of capital and access to products made more cheaply and efficiently overseas. The problem is that, in the midst of a bad recession, the midwest simply cannot afford to lose so many jobs. Saving the jobs is easier than creating the same number of new ones.
@Botswana Meat Commission FC
(What’s with some of the reply buttons going all Mams’ Up?)
The Focus was fine till the geniuzes at Ford messed with it to make it more North Amerikanny.
I drove a rental Focus the year it came out. Only car I had whose engine torched on me. I somehow managed to make it back to the Rental place with smoke pouring out of the the engine and trailing the stench of burning Detroit behind me.
[re=195537]Carrie_Okie[/re]: The Toyota Tundra? The Sequoia?
[re=195537]Carrie_Okie[/re]: Word. Whoever thought it was a good idea to market the fucking hummer to soccer moms deserves to be tared and feathered. And whoever thought it was a good idea to make it bright yellow, well I would like to deal with them myself. That is just wrong.
[re=195529]SayItWithWookies[/re]: [re=195501]NoWireHangers[/re]: [re=195497]Min[/re]: [re=195496]Formerly Preferred[/re]: CORRECT, CORRECT & CORRECT!!! True; Detroit was breaking the bank selling SUV’s prior to Hurricane Bush. But this was a storm that has been brewing since the 70′s and the original gas crisis. The difference between Japanese car makers and American car makers is “quality” vs. “Margin”. In the 70′s Japanese cars were considered garbage(although fuel efficient), so they focused on building their brands quality. They didn’t care if they were only making a couple hundred dollars of profit per vehicle. A good example(although not in the 80′s) is the Prius. For the first couple years after the Prius was released, they LOST MONEY for every one they sold. The point was to build an image and advance the technology; ironically this was around the same time the EV1 was being scrapped by GM. Detroit’s problem is they allow their vehicles to be designed by ACCOUNTANTS and not engineers and designers.
The Gig Three still has one option: make Flintstones foot-powered cards.
Just punch out the bottom of a regular car and tell people it’s fuel-efficient, environmentally friendly and good exercise to boot.
they’ll sell like hotcakes.
[re=195536]Botswana Meat Commission FC[/re]: …Shhhhhhhh! I don’t need to tell you that I actually saw a “concept” vehicle to bring back the El Camino!
[re=195537]Carrie_Okie[/re]: …Toyota Sequoia & Nissan Armada! That’s about it.
Each one of the “Big Three” should have had their own version of the Dodge dart, and they should still be making it.
As I’ve said before, Palin and McCain should be condemned to driving Mavericks the rest of their lives.
While Detroit was busy dolling up decade-old designs with new plastic body-cladding and digital fuckery that never worked right (remember the digital dashboards and talking cars of the 80s?) the Japanese were quietly building simple, intuitive designs that worked and held up to the test of time.
They also never let a popular model rest on its laurels – ever see a Civic/Accord/Camry/Corolla generation span more than 4 years? Meanwhile the Cavalier clunked along for 11 years from 1995 to 2006 with few significant changes.
For a while they could rest on their price advantage – but then the Koreans came out of nowhere and started selling at-least-average quality cars that undercut the big 3 by thousands. Oops!
[re=195557]AngryBlakGuy[/re]:
I always laugh when the Big Three state that their products are just as good or better than any imports. They all live in some alternate reality.
[re=195573]AngryBlakGuy[/re]: And the Infiniti QX56. And the Lexus GX470. And the Land Cruiser.
Actually, Toyota made a crapload of big, nasty trucks, and they generally got fuel efficiency that was the same as or worse than the equivalent Detroit products. They don’t get a lot of blame for that because the Prius greenwashes everything, and because people for some reason like Camrys (which, on its own, is a sure sign that humanity is too sick to survive). But let’s count Toyota SUVs: FJ Cruiser, RAV4, Highlander, Sequoia, Land Cruiser, and on the Lexus side RX330, GX470, LX570. Compare that with Ford: Edge, Escape, Explorer, Expedition, Mercury’s Escape and Mountaineer, and Lincoln’s MKX. Not so different, eh?
[re=195573]AngryBlakGuy[/re]: The Nissan Armada is the greatest name for a vehicle I have ever heard. It just screams “Out of my way! I am piloting a big ass automobile!”
[re=195540]Doglessliberal[/re]:
Very true.
I read one person’s opinion that Detroit wouldn’t be in the mess it is in now if the gov’t hadn’t bailed out Chrysler. That is, the surviving big two would’ve realized that they couldn’t continue repackaging the same crap over and over. And that they weren’t too big to fail. Problem now, of course, is that the big 3 are too big not to fail, but where does that leave the millions who will be unemployed?
Hey people. Do you know why your Gasoline is so cheap these days?
WELL I HAVE SOME INSIDER INFORMATION FOR YOU
My girlfriend-person in reality land, who is a general terrorist-succubus who will destroy us all (which is why I love the dame) was recently in the Netherlands meeting with FANCY SHELL OIL PEOPLE. The FANCY SHELL OIL PEOPLE informed her that with Bush in office, they had to jack the price of oil up out of fear of more wars and stuff of that TERRIBLE nature causing more unrest in the middle east. So there’s that.
With Barry, your gas will be cheaper, so GO BUY A MILLION CARS ALREADY, please.
I bought my brother’s 1997 Chrysler Sebring two and a half years ago, when I was nearly broke and needed a car. It still works, but things on it break. Both door handles have broken, as has the rearview mirror, and oh yeah, the entire suspension went by the board recently. It now has 93,000 miles on it. This thing has to last me for as long as possible.
I bring this up because as soon as I started taking it to garages (which was almost immediately after I bought it) I wound up on a mailing list urging me to sign up for the new Chrysler Visa card, which is offered special to Chrysler owners. I guess their game was that if they couldn’t build a decent car, then shoot for brand loyalty. It’s a cheap, pathetic way out, and the fact that this is where Chrysler’s efforts are going makes me less inclined to buy a Chrysler next time.
If I were to fall back on my family’s car loyalties, I’d buy either a Chevrolet, which my dad liked, or an Oldsmobile, which my mother liked. They don’t make Oldsmobiles anymore, but I might go with a Chevy. However, when I buy a car, I’ll probably go for a Toyota. The first car I ever owned was a beat-to-hell 1981 Corolla, and it was impressive, for what it was. I’ve driven other Toyotas, as rentals, and I like them a lot. I liked the Ford Taurus I rented once, too, but lots of people have warned me off of them. The Focus is okay, but nothing special.
Some day I’ll tell my children, “My dad owned a couple of Volkswagens, but otherwise, my parents drove nothing but American cars while I was growing up. Imagine that—cars made by American companies. They used to make television sets in America, too. But that was way back when I was a little boy…” “Jesus, here goes Dad on his nostalgia trips again… Where’s my iPod?”
[re=195557]AngryBlakGuy[/re]: American cars had been closing the quality gap thru the 90s and even into this decade, tho. It’s fair to point out that they were making and still are making inferior cars, but they had wheeled that around a bit and might have surpassed Japanese cars soon.
However, the perception problem is still there: people think American cars are crap, so if they’ve bought Toyota or Volvo, they won’t consider a Chevy anymore.
What GM and Ford and Chrysler really failed to do and the underlying reason they need the bailout, is they failed to make cars *consumers* wanted, instead opting to use the old Henry Ford engineering theory “We can make it in any color you want, so long as its black”.
In other words, shoving models down our throats.
I could go on and on about the failings of Detroit, like offering way too many model lines and way too many customizations, but this in a nutshell covers their problem.
[re=195589]Formerly Preferred[/re]: The difference is the vacuum of decent small/efficient cars on the American side. Sure, the Japanese make trucks. But the Americans don’t make medium cars very well (Malibu and mazda-derived Fusion excluded) and hardly make small cars at all. When they do “make” small cars it’s usually an imported Korean or Japanese product with an American badge. Aveo=Daewoo, Prizm=Corolla, Vibe=Matrix, Colt=Mitsubishi, Metro=Suzuki, Nova=Corolla, LeMans=Daewoo, Festiva=Kia. I could go on and on.
It would be really easy, in one fell swoop, to fix Detroit’s problems and to force them to greenify (and Toyota and Honda and the rest, too).
Reclassify SUVs as trucks for insurance and licensing purposes. They will require commercial licenses, commercial insurance and be banned from roads that prohibit commercial traffic.
Detroit et al got over big time by having it both ways: classifying them as trucks for CAFE purposes and as cars for any other purpose. Time to close that loophole.
[re=195589]Formerly Preferred[/re]: People like the Camry because those things would survive a nuclear apocalypse. As the owner of a uber-crappy GM vehicle, I would literally sell my soul for a Camry. Hell maybe even a Corolla. I am pretty cheap.
Also, I don’t think the Prious greenwashes everything I think it was a sign that Toyota was smart enough to diversify they type of vehicles they make. They made big ass trucks and SUVs because that was what was popular at the time, but they didn’t completely abandon making reasonably priced quality cars.
for the kids:
a pacer: http://allworldcars.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/01-1975-amc-pacer-x.jpg
a gremlin: http://www.dragtimes.com/images/4771-1973-AMC-Gremlin.jpg
good times.
[re=195594]Advocatus_Diaboli[/re]: Steven Pearlstein at the Post had a proposal a few weeks ago to put them all through a structured b’ruptcy, which was genius because it would give a trustee or judge the authority to do what needs to be done (fire management, rework loans, terminate dealer contracts without paying highway robbery buyouts, etc), unlike a wimpy, undefined “car czar” with no clear authority. Unfortunately, Congress knows better than a Pulitzer-Prize winning econimics reporter, so we are going to get some ineffective middle-of-the-road “solution” that isn’t one.
[re=195589]Formerly Preferred[/re]: The difference here is that GM went all in (to use a poker metaphor) on the big SUVs. The created the demand through brilliant advertising and then fed it…ignoring all other aspects of their business. Toyota was trying to ride the wave GM created, but their main business model was never the SUV. GM created their own problem, and should suffer for it. Market forces, man, they do suck sometimes.
[re=195585]friendlynerd[/re]: …don’t look now; but here come the Chinese auto makers!
[re=195588]Servo[/re]: …I think now, each of the big 3 have 1 or 2 cars in production that are comparable. But that isn’t anywhere enough to put them back in the game.
[re=195589]Formerly Preferred[/re]: …I think the reason why most of the Japanese auto maker get a pass on their gas guzzlers is because it was never part of their business model. They saw Ford, GM & Dodge raking in the cash with the SUV’s so they decided to jump in. A good example of this is Porsche, VW, Audi and BMW; these companies have never had a SUV in their lineup. They didn’t want to give up possible market share, so they quickly through something together and brought it to market. Believe it or not there were actually rumors of a Ferrari SUV at one point.
[re=195591]OffTheRecord[/re]: …if Darth Vader ever came to earth, he would drive a Nissan Armada!
[re=195636]AngryBlakGuy[/re]: The roads around here are full of Cayennes and BMW X3s and X5s, and also the several large Mercedes pieces of crap. All get horrid gas mileage, but rich, white moms in NoVa love them.
H2: 10-12 MPG (so low they would not advertise it, these are from Motortrend and Car & Driver)
And what did mofo’s buy them for? To use as a heavy duty truck? No, to use as a status symbol and a sedan. I mean who wants to take their shiny $60,000.00 Amero toy where it will get dirty or scratched? (Of course this leaves out the US Army, Marines etc…)
Tundra: Sold like hot cakes. Consumer Reports 2nd best pickup. Toyota’s Tundra was full-size pickup to have earned the IIHS’s Top Safety Pick. 15-19MPG.
Sequoia: 13/16mpg.
Armada: 12/18 mpg
{Note: ol’ Carrie_Okie has been known to drive around in a 20 yo F-250 Diesel spewing smoke and killin’ deer on the highway. Yee haw.}
[re=195601]shortsshortsshorts[/re]: …my theory is as follows:
Remember all those “Speculators” that were essentially using the futures market to drive up the price of gas?! Well, since the banks started to implode they haven’t been lending money to these motherfukkers. No money = No speculation! In short; YES we were getting ripped off by the oil speculators/oil companies and it had absolutely, positively nothing to do with demand!!!
[re=195617]sleepy[/re]: Hey, don’t forget the Maverick and the Chevy Vega, classically crappy cars.
[re=195493]Sussemilch[/re]: Can’t bicycle to work in Michigan either… 1. you’ll swiftly be road pancake for not owning an SUV 2. There’s no work to go to. Oh and 3. That cold and snow and stuff.
[re=195652]Doglessliberal[/re]:
They also have horrendous reliability, which confuses me. Why pay so much for something that breaks all the time and sucks gas? Dealers must include handjobs with service.
[re=195661]binarian[/re]: Hey I had a Maverick. (no McCain, but then it did die on my ass in South Carolina on the way to Lauderdale…)
[re=195495]4tehlulz[/re]: Yeah, stupid UAW demanding liveable, decent wages and things like health care and pension plans. It’s like their members want to live nice lives and be able to retire and that’s unAmerican.
PS- the Pacer ruled.
[re=195652]Doglessliberal[/re]: …same thing here in Miami! But in all honesty, I will take those mid-sized monstrosities over the Nimitz class Ford Excursion, Chevy Suburban/Yukon XXL and Dodge Durango any day.
[re=195670]friendlynerd[/re]: many rich people are very stupid. These are people who pay $800 for Burberry bikinis (no, not joking) because it will impress their friends. There is no end to the insane things people will waste money on. And hey, I love nice things, but I want quality if I am forking over cash, and I want the price to have some relation to what I am getting (nice shoes, suits often worth the money). Designer bathing suits, towels, sunglasses, etc are idiocy, but then again, I wish I’d thought of them because I’d be rich.
[re=195687]AngryBlakGuy[/re]: The Ford Excursion is an abomination. My husband and I call it the Ford Valdez.
[re=195526]King of Pants[/re]: I think this is a really good point. And I think it comes down to the fact that we have no idea what all this financial shit is, but we all have lots of experience, opinions, etc. about cars. So we all feel qualified to judge them more harshly than the financials.
Plus the wall streeters got there first.
If they fuck this up and 2 million more people lose their jobs, then it will be shit hitting fan time.
My cousin Kerry is taking a look at the transmission
Putting in a lime green plasma screen television
Seats feel like leather, you can’t even tell that they’re fake
And I only got a couple easy payments left to make
Just a little alcohol in the glove compartment minibar
Open up the moon-roof so we sit back and watch the stars
Oh yes and the GPS so I always know where you are
So baby don’t go too far
Because I’m coming for you
I’m coming for you
You better make way ‘cos I’m coming through
In my late 92 baby-blue Subaru
[re=195656]AngryBlakGuy[/re]: true. But no one has brought up the ENORMOUS tax break Americans were getting for buying SUVs and trucks….if they could prove a legitimate ‘business’ need. People were buying Hummers and getting them at less than half off because of the tax break. My BF bought a Expedition (he does use it for his business, btw) and got a $20,000 tax break.
Now you see all those mothers driving their kids around in a huge SUV are really using it for their ‘home party kitchen tools’, ‘home party sex toys’ or ‘Mary Kay Cosmetics’ business plan. The wonders of the ‘free market’?
[re=195687]AngryBlakGuy[/re]: But the American cars make for the best projects on PIMP MY RIDE
Your heartless attacks on the BIG THREE of DETROIT will not only cause countless shifless blacks to lose their cushy union jobs but they will also lead to XHIBIT losing his as host of Pimp My Ride. You are a disgrace to your creed.
http://www.boingboing.net/2008/12/09/a-message-to-boing-b.html
[re=195703]Doglessliberal[/re]: …I drive an Acura. I remember about 8 months ago when gas was borderline $4, pulling up to the pump next to an Excursion(I think it was a rental). I pumped about $45.00 to fill up my tank and when I looked over at them, they were at $112 with no sign of slowing. It got to the point that the woman in the passenger seat said “Honey you are going to max out the card”. I couldn’t help but laugh at the azzholes!
What is this, Jalopnik? Ninety zillion comments and no mention of ass-fucking.
[re=195743]AngryBlakGuy[/re]: hah! But, they are destroying the planet, so not all shitz and gigglz
The Times has been absolutely insane on this issue. Yesterday David Sanger said the auto bailout would turn the US into the USSR. A few days before that some Times reporter found a couple of people in Michigan who actually don’t support a bailout. etc. etc. Its like they still believe if they absolutely run American manufacturing into the ground, their 401Ks will go through the roof.
[re=195714]sati demise[/re]: Were? I just got an e-mail from a BMW dealer informing me of the significant tax benefits that I could enjoy if I bought an X5 or X6 for business use; because of some accelerated depreciation mumbo-jumbo, the e-mail suggests I could get a $60K X6 and write off about $46K of the price.
I am so glad I am subsidizing this. Meanwhile, NPR tells me a heartwarming story this morning about some plumber somewhere whose truck is breaking down but he is SOL because he cannot get a car loan.
[re=195703]Doglessliberal[/re]: When I was in high school many many years ago we has assigned parking spaces. The people who parked on both sides of me both drove Excursions, poorly I might add. If I managed to beat them to school and actually get into my parking spot I was definitely blocked in when I tried to leave in the evening. I have never forgiven them. I still get mad every time I see one.
[re=195661]binarian[/re]: Oh my god, the Chevy Vega … pure evil.
Detroit wouldn’t be in the financial straights they are in today if they hadn’t mistakenly thought that the American People wanted Huge, Gasguzzling, monster SUV and Trucks, instead of something that was a bit more economical to drive… wait, trucknutz would look pretty stupid on a hybrid… Nevermind, it’s not Detroit’s fault, it’s the trucknutz manufactures fault!
[re=195880]OffTheRecord[/re]: NO ONE needs an Excursion. If you have a boat and you need to move it, you rent a truck for those occasions. It is nuts when people buy these things because “oh, my kid’s soccer stuff takes up room”. Give me a break.
You know, the best are these shitfucks who defend some mythical “American” auto industry, as if 75% of the shitty parts Chrysler inefficiently stuffs in its shitty cars isn’t made in fucking Brazil.
Honda Civics are made by TWENTY THOUSAND people in central Ohio and 70% of the parts that go into them are made in the U.S. by people making $26/hour. Shit, I’ve got a PhD and I’d like to be making $26/hour.
Let Detroit drown in its own vomit.
[re=195636]AngryBlakGuy[/re]: It’s absolutely fair to castigate the American auto companies for neglecting the automotive side of their portfolios when they were making $10,000 per unit on large SUVs (hello, 1998). That was stupid. Jacques Nasser at Ford was an idiot for blowing billions on Land Rover and various other ancillary companies that have all since been sold at a loss rather than investing that money in cars. Ford and GM should have thought longer term about fuel efficiency, and should have developed green halo cars like the Prius.
But it’s not right to say that gas guzzling trucks played no role in Nissan and Toyota’s business plans. For Toyota, especially, much of their growth during the early years of the 21st century came from building trucks, and Toyota has been just as keen to add bloat to their products as anyone. Look at the new Scion xB, or compare the curb weight of a RAV4 today to a RAV4 from the 90s. Toyota deserves an extra measure of special scorn for the ridiculous Lexus LS600h “hybrid,” a vehicle that barely manages to get better gas mileage than the standard V8 on which it is based, but which gives rich plutocrats an option that makes them feel slightly more virtuous than slumming around in a Prius or Escape.
The only company that didn’t drink from this well is Honda, and Honda legitimately deserves kudos for being scary good at what they do–though even Honda got beat by Toyota in the hybrid game, by failing to recognize that hybrids only really sell well when everyone can tell they are hybrids, because people who buy hybrids want their friends to know they’ve bought a hybrid.
[re=195937]Doglessliberal[/re]: I have to disguise my incredulity when I’m visiting home (Texas) and hear people claim that they need their Nimitz-class SUVs to drive their kids around. There are millions of German children who somehow survive the indignity of riding in cars that make the Ford Focus look like a roomy, mid-sized sedan – it really IS considered a mid-sized family vehicle here. Somehow, these millions of German children still manage to play a lot of soccer despite the lack of cars capable of hauling half their team around at once.
There are also some impressively large Germans (some in height, some in girth) who manage to get themselves into these little cars that make the Focus look big.
Gas is *down* to the equivalent of $5/gallon. Amazing what that sort of thing does to your perceived automotive needs.
I have more respect for big SUV owners who say, “yeah, I drive it because I wanted one, and the gas bills are totally worth it, even when it was $4/gallon.”
[re=195610]actor212[/re]: Hell, just require that you demonstrate your ability to park an SUV before you’re able to purchase one, that’d get the numbers down fast.
[re=195988]Texmandie[/re]: Yup, the American concept of “need” is well and truly warped. There are many people who could LIVE in a friggin’ Excursion right now and be happy about it. We have so much (even our poor are better off than other countries’ poor), it is pathetic.
And yes, I count myself. I don’t need a lot of what I have, but at least I am not $50K in credit card debt because I “needed” a big screen TV and endless other shit. My credit card debt was in law school when I lived on loans, and needed the cc to eat and fix the 10 year old Honda I drove. I praised the god of credit then for my ability to have a card. Then, when I finally could, I paid the mofo off and never want to be in that position again (knock wood).
OK, off soapbox and rant.
2 questions here. First is whether Detroit Big Iron sucks. Answer: Yup. it does, mostly. Second is whether to bail them out. Yeah, reluctantly.
Digression. My father worked for Ford, back in the day, and he once told me about How the Mustang Came To Be. The Big 3 were losing market share to Furriners (Europeans that time), so Ford slapped a pretty body on a Falcon chassis. Voila! The Mustang, a “sporty car”. (What was a “Falcon”? You don’t want to know, but it made the Pacer look like a Ferrari.)
Our second car is a Toyota Corolla. 20 years old, quarter million miles. We have to put about 600 bucks of non-sled maintenance into it every year, and it dropped a transmission once, in traffic, damn near got me killed. Makes weird noises over 50 MPH.
But, y’know, it has a stick, so you drive it instead of aiming it. The mechanics love it, and will work on it for almost nothing, because it’s all mechanical parts — OK, noisy ones — none of this computer crap. And I once left it unlocked on a city street for four days and nobody touched it; nobody else cares about it as much as I do. Corolla: keys .. rip .. cold dead fingers.
Can Detroit make something like that? I doubt it. (O Gawd, I’d offer extra-worldly sex and a lifetime supply of methedrine and cigarettes for another Model T.)
Bailout. There will be people going hungry in Michigan this winter if those scum-sucking Southern Senators have their way.
We’ve just had $350B more or less disappear. What’s $15B (or whatever) to save all those jobs?
Gesh, this thread is like a blog version of “Click & Clack – The Tappet Brothers.”
(Who probably sodomize each other, when they are not on NPR annoying the nation.)
But since we’re going there: The 1964 Dodge Dart, with the 170 c.i. Slant Six and the Push-Button Automatic Transmission.
I put another 100k miles on one that started with about that much on the clock. I changed the oil once, because I thought it had earned it.
The heater could defrost the North Pole, and you could hide 4 of your buddies in the trunk to get into a concert or whatever.
And it would cruise at 70 mph all day long, at about 24 mph.
It was, however, pretty ugly. But in a Art Modernish kind of way. In a good light, that is. When you were drunk.
:::Sigh::::
When the Universe begins to collapse back into the Monoblock, before the next Big Bang, the last thing that will be moving in the gravitation mass will be a Slant Six — still running.
If Detroit still made cars like that, we’d still be ruling the world.
[re=196245]Neilist[/re]: “And it would cruise at 70 mph all day long, at about 24 mph.”
60 percent of the time, it starts every time.
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