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We talk a lot here about terrible men on the internet — but the problem is, it’s not as if terrible men only exist on the internet. They are legion. And they are garbage for so many, many reasons other than just being inordinately mad at women for wearing leggings.

One thing I can tell you is that if you’re not already convinced that at-will employment is a scourge upon our nation, and also a giant misanthrope, the Legal Advice subreddit will swiftly convince you otherwise. A search for “boss” or “employer” reveals loads of people dealing with employers who have fired or want to fire them for incredibly awful reasons.

It takes a lot to shock me at this point, but I came upon one yesterday that I just can’t stop being furious about. I can’t. I’m so, so mad at it. Wonkers, join me in my abject fury!:

Location is NY and throwaway because this is humiliating. Basically, my boss saw me in the grocery store using WIC checks to pay for part of my groceries & a can of baby formula. He texted me afterwards, to say “It reflects badly on me if my employee is using WIC. It makes it look like I don’t pay you enough. I hope you can understand that if I find out you are continuing to use government assistance, I will have to fire you.” I responded back apologizing and requested that we talk about it in person (at work) the next day. During that conversation, I explained that the only government assistance I get is WIC which is a benefit of about $75 a month, and that if he was willing to raise my pay $75 a month I would stop using the checks. He refused. He further stated that he was considering cutting off access to the room that I pump in, because he had seen I was buying baby formula. This was previously never an issue – I pump on my regular breaks, in an unused room. I have never requested any sort of accommodation or extra break time for pumping. I told him that I have to supplement a little formula because I can’t pump enough for the baby, but that I wish to continue pumping on my own regular breaks. He’s still considering it. I know the NY pumping law covers this, at least.

Basically, my question is if there is anything I can do if he follows through? I feel like it has to be wrong to fire someone for using a government program that they are qualified for. Where would I report this, and what should I do if I am fired? I am now looking for another job, but I’m afraid of being jobless if it takes a little while to secure something.

The TLDR on this is that this woman’s boss does not pay her enough to live, so she has to go on WIC in order to feed her children. He is mad that she is doing this, because he doesn’t want people knowing how little he pays her. He is also mad that she is pumping her breasts at work and also still buying formula, which is a completely normal thing to do, and may consider no longer allowing her to do so.

This is the grossest thing I have ever heard of in my entire life. And the sad thing is — while she definitely has a case for the breast pumping thing — I’m honestly not sure what she could do about the WIC thing. Because “at-will employment” — which basically means you can be fired because your boss had a bad hair day and is annoyed and wants to fire someone. The only exceptions to this are discrimination-based, and unfortunately I don’t think “needing to use social programs because said employer isn’t paying you enough” isn’t covered.

Also horrifying was this other post about an evil boss from yesterday, in which a California man was actually laid off after announcing that he’d be taking family leave once his wife had given birth:

I had worked for this employer for nearly 10 years in IT. Wife is 12 weeks pregnant we decided to be proactive and talk to our employers after telling close family so they can hear it from us before the rumor mill. Wednesday this week I sat down with my boss to let him know and discuss how to best plan projects around the time I’ll be out in six months. On Thursday I got a meeting request for a “planning meeting” that afternoon, not thinking anything about it given the previous days conversation, until my boss is walking me down to HR.

HR informs me my position is no longer needed and that the layoff is not performance based. They offered a small severance and then inform me they’ll be hiring a new position in the department and that I’m welcome to apply.

This was a non-union job. There were no other layoffs in the company. There have been no talks of restructuring or downsizing in our department. I had a good performance review last quarter, just like every year I had been there.

Besides the loss in pay, we used my medical insurance and my wifes employer doesn’t offer any, so I’m feeling pretty hung out to dry about the whole thing. Aside from trying to negotiate a better severance package, was this on the up and up?

It appears that this man has more legal recourse than the other woman, but still. The fact that it happened in the first place is absolutely appalling. The fact that either of these things happened is absolutely appalling.

At-will employment is garbage, and opposing it is a cause the Left needs to start taking up, along with other labor protections. In most countries throughout the world, your boss can only fire you for “just cause” — but in every state in the union except Montana for some reason, if you are not in a union, an employer can fire you just cause (except in cases of discrimination). No one should fear losing their job, losing their ability to feed themselves or their children, for a stupid reason. Imagine how much better, more secure you would feel if you knew you could only be fired for a good reason? That is something Americans deserve.

It is time to stop treating “job creators” like delicate flowers who will fall apart if we expect them to treat and pay their employees decently and fairly. It is time to be on the side of the workers again.

Ugh.

[Legal Advice]

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  • Moar Wordz

    At-will employment = ulcer for you, power, money, and endless jizzing for A boss.

  • ((( Augustus )))

    “job creator” is a fucking bullshit phrase anyway

    so you’re a job creator… …so the fuck what? I’m a job worker, nice to meet you

    these people expect us to treat them like royalty because they were born into wealth, and use the actual rigged system to increase their wealth to buy power and “prestige”

    fuck that shit, this is god damn America and we don’t do royalty here

    so call yourself what you are, a fellow American… all participants in a society

    if you don’t want to be in our society, you can get the fuck out

    • susan_g

      Without the workers, nothing gets created.

    • C4TWOMAN

      But don’t you know that there is no society… something something Randroid Thatcher “we’re all independent agents” Social Darwinism bootstrap something…

    • Red Richmond

      It’s also bullshit because they personally aren’t creating the job at all. Demand for a product or service creates need, that need is then filled by people doing the work to fill that demand. Customers are the job creators.

      • ((( Augustus )))

        that’s what various marxist etc. etc. etc. have been saying for forever, of course

        the workers, who are also the consumers, make the thing or provide the service

        the managers don’t really contribute anything

        • Red Richmond

          I don’t entirely ascribe to that thinking myself though; on a certain level intelligent management is a useful thing to help coordinate the actions and activities of different teams and/or departments. A good manager can also encourage aand motivate and inspire better work from his people than what they might otherwise achieve on their own.

          But none of that addresses the basic point that if no one wants what you’re offering, it doesn’t matter if you have benevolent good guys or malignant assholes running things- you will not have a job for very long. This is a fundamental part of why trickle down economics is bullshit.

        • BradtheBot

          I’m mostly a lurker here, but occasionally I feel the urge to share a fleeting thought.

          As someone who has been both a successful worker and served as successful management at various times in my life, I can unequivocally state that competent, informed, and caring management most definitely affects how effective “the workers” are in making the thing or providing the service. In fact, I’ve been management for both making things and service.

          A couple of my favorite thoughts about management:

          Happy people are more efficient.

          If you take care of the people, they will take care of, in your words, making the things or providing the service.

          I’m going to go out on a limb and surmise you either are young and haven’t had the opportunity to work for a good manager yet, that you have more experience but totally lost the good manager lottery, or that you have had a good manager but you failed to recognize how their efforts to take care of you made your work better / more efficient / more productive / not as fucked up as it might have been.

          Bot gets off soapbox, and returns to lurking….

          • Over my career, I’ve seen good and bad management… both are absolutely out there.

          • Marilyn

            G-o-ogle is p-a-ying $97 per hour,w-i-th we-e-kly payouts.Y-o-u can a-l-so avail this.
            O-n tuesday I got a brand new Land R-o-ver Range Rover from having earned $11752 this last four weeks..with-o-u-t any doubt it’s the most-com-f-ortable job I have ever done .. It s-o-unds unbelievable but you w-o-nt forgive yourself if you don’t check it
            !gx273d:
            ♥G♥O♥Y♥J♥F♥L♥R♥D♥F♥L♥X♥Y♥N♥P♥B♥O♥T♥Q♥D♥U♥H♥R♥Z♥E♥P♥M♥U♥M♥N♥Q♥T♥X
            >>>> http://GoogleOnlineUniversalEasyTechJobsOpportunities/easy/jobs ♥G♥O♥Y♥J♥F♥L♥R♥D♥F♥L♥X♥Y♥N♥P♥B♥O♥T♥Q♥D♥U♥H♥R♥Z♥E♥P♥M♥U♥M♥N♥Q♥T♥X:::::!gx273lhu

        • Sakonyachen

          Managers are workers. Owners are what your thinking of. Managers generally keep the operation moving efficiently. If you don’t have an owner trying to scrape every dime possible from a business, you won’t see as much trouble between management and the rank and file workers. In this trickle down society, the manager is expected to make profit regardless of morale or quality. This makes it hard for people who aren’t sociopaths, and a disaster when sociopaths take the job. If you don’t have some useless fuck taking every penny from the labor they can, managers are just another worker.

      • commatoes

        Frank Luntz, linguistic engineering.

        Do not refer to the high tax bracket at “wealthy or high earners”. Refer to them as “job creators”. IIRC, “death tax” and “democrat party” are his too.

        • willi0000000

          as far as i know, he is also responsible for “climate change” . . . easy to argue that the climate has always been changing . . . after all, the climate was once 5000° with an almost constant rain . . . of meteors!

          [ he’s just another asshole who revels in taking advantage of stupidity and ignorance . . . you know, a republan ]

          • commatoes

            His is a soft manipulator in the tradition of advertising. But his techniques only work on a naïve audience. Anything political, regardless of stripe, brings out the cynic in me.

      • handyhippie65

        oooh, you can’t use logic in an argument. you’ll smoke a turd in corporate hell for that.

    • jesterpunk

      The mega church near me run by my congress critters brother says on labor day to “thank the job creators for allowing you to buy food and put a roof over your head and for the privilege of working for them”.

      • Red Richmond

        Sounds like they should also be offering an alternative prayer for the job creators, “Thank you masses for not rediscovering tumbrells and guillotines, or resorting to mass- scale 2nd amendment solutions using the instruments we have made so readily available, to rectify these imbalances in society.”

      • george lastrapes

        Jesus changed his mind about the poor and the meek, and ditched the whole cornball ‘Prince of Peace’ thing. Nobody is a bigger NRA booster than He is!

        • jesterpunk

          WWJS?

      • mfp, all 6s&7s&9s

        oh yeah?….fuck him

      • WOW…

      • george lastrapes

        The Prosperity Gospel strikes again. What an abomination.

        • Bigly smart jesterpunk

          The worst part is it’s a huge multi million dollar property with a school in a separate building so they don’t pay any taxes, guilt the people at the church into paying the monthly mortgage then get more tax money for the school. It’s all a huge scam.

    • The real job creators are the customers. No customers, no business.

    • Daniel

      The irony is here in the UK we do do royalty- and we have better workers’ protections than you do.

    • The Wanderer

      I’m a job creator. Every time I buy gas for my car, I pay a store clerk whose job relies on people like me patronizing that business. Every time I buy food, part of the price goes to providing employment.

    • commatoes

      So workers should be called “productivity creators”?

      • FlownΩver

        Or just “demand creators.” Better yet, “management creators,” ’cause without demand there’s nothing to manage.

    • Cornelius Fussbudget

      It’s just one of the many perversions of hero worship.

    • handyhippie65

      no king, no queen, no lord. but sadly, yes to robber barons.

      • FlownΩver

        OK, who’s up for an anarcho-syndicalist commune, then?

  • C4TWOMAN

    The only thing I find that works is the threat of a PR disaster. Definitely talk to a lawyer. I won my situation, but I might have won quicker if I hadn’t V.I. Warshawski’d it on my own for so long.
    Otoh, I did amass quite a bit of evidence for the lawyer to work with. The threat of going to the media…who lurv these wtf personal interest stories… should be exploited to the max.

  • Resistance Fighter Callyson

    Good fucking God. What is wrong with these assholes?

  • msanthropesmr
  • Rick Prose

    Amen!

  • TJ Barke
  • Doug Langley

    You touched a nerve there, Robyn. I could rage for hours about my personal experience, but in interest of my blood pressure will be quiet.

    • Shan

      Same here.

  • JaveyDay

    How dare you advocate to deny our corporate overlords their divine right to do with us as they please.

    • TJ Barke

      Yeah! It says on this paper that they own all right to productive capacity and the means of subsistence, so that means it’s totally legitimate and fair!

  • kfreed

    Sure, bring it up with Trump. Meanwhile, you assholes aren’t exactly what I’d call employed (no, snarking on a blog for handouts isn’t employment) so wishing in one hand and shitting in the other is fine for you. The rest of us, though, are fucked.

    Thanks bunches.

  • jesterpunk

    Robyn, you linked to the same post twice.

  • I left the corporate cesspool fourteen years ago, did the contractor thing for a few years (try getting clients to pay on a timely basis, UGH), and have been in the non-profit world for eleven years. I don’t think I could go back to corporate America, I’d end up putting some asshole through a wall.

    • Dept. of Space Tacos

      i’m liking government work – i’m still not hired yet, but if i were – not only is the pay and benefits better than the corporate world these days, the corporate world sucks ass.

      • mackafritz, v.s.g.

        Until they start running government like a business.

      • Yeah, too bad government at all levels is being run by anti-government assholes.

        • Dept. of Space Tacos

          heh, i work for an elected official who is an honest to god good person. The only way I’d leave is if that person and the supervisors were replaced in an election or resigned.

          • That’s fortunate.

          • Dept. of Space Tacos

            indeed – and it makes all the damn difference. The ill fated law job, I wouldn’t piss on those people if they were on fire.

            These folks, I’d do most anything for. (but not that.)

          • Celtic_Gnome

            I worked in an elected official’s office for 32 years. Three Republican and two Democratic administrations. The Republicans were uniformly awful.

      • Rebel Scum with permit

        It can be. There can also be some of the worst abuses in government because it’s so hard to fire a bad manager.

        • Dept. of Space Tacos

          i think it’s all about your shop – specifically your leadership. And you’re right – i think it goes for all kinds of work frankly.

          The bosses set the tone, the “culture” (which is a phrase I hate, but I get it), the hours, the morale, the direction, etc.

          I guess I’m just really really really lucky (even though its still an internship).

    • RickyG

      Indeed

    • mfp, all 6s&7s&9s

      i was a working musician for 30 yrs, but for the last 10, i work for a non-profit…it’s a fucking joke, and as corporate as it gets…a corporate slumlord…i hate it with the passion of the burning sun, and if i was 1/2 the man i was five years ago, i’d take a flamethrower to the fucking place, so i cant imagine how bad the Corporate corporate world is

      • That’s bad, but I imagine it’s not Fortune 500 bad.

        • mfp, all 6s&7s&9s

          right…probably not

  • RickyG

    Thank FSM I have left the corporate world. None of my managers managed me. They all “managed up” — licking the ass above them. That was not a desirable career track (crack) for me!

  • mfp, all 6s&7s&9s

    “It reflects badly on me if my employee is using WIC. It makes it look like I don’t pay you enough.”

    guess what, mothafucka?…fuck you, pay me

  • Daniel

    The view appears to be that you get more vulnerable the more money you make, and therefore if you’re rich you need far more protection than the poor.

    However, when it comes to talking about why these people need to be supported and coddled, it’s because they’re strong enough to make tough decisions, like firing the whining, pathetic poor. Who are tougher than them which is why they don’t require any protections.

    • Bobathonic

      It’s like those ineffectual Joos who rule the world.

  • WilbyToad
    • mackafritz, v.s.g.

      You won’t see that on Faux News.

    • Zippy W Pinhead

      Comcast did the same thing- fired thousands right before Christmas. And Home Depot announced that they are using their new tax windfall to buy back 15 billion in stocks. Verizon’s announced bonuses amount to about 2% of their annual tax breaks and were in fact negotiated by the union several months before the tax bill passed.

    • Dept. of Space Tacos

      i also seem to recall those “bonuses” had been decided on back in october or something…and the layoffs were planned well in advance too.

      Sometimes our media are actually idiots.

  • Daniel

    “It reflects badly on me if my employee is using WIC. It makes it look like I don’t pay you enough.”

    That’s because quite clearly you don’t pay me enough.

    • icekat

      He cares if people thinks he doesn’t pay his employees enough, but he doesn’t care if people think he’s a heartless dick. There’s no accounting for taste.

    • TootsStansbury

      Some ghosts need to visit that motherfucker.

      • Daniel

        “It reflects badly on me if you show me Tiny Tim dying because I sacked Bob and he lost his health insurance. If you continue to let me see this, I’m afraid that I’m going to have to ask you to leave, ghost.”

      • FlownΩver

        If Dok weren’t looking I could suggest the alternative of a couple of hard, pipe-hitting ****s to go to work on him with a pair of pliers and a blowtorch.

        But since Dok is looking I’m not even entertaining the remotest possibility of even considering suggesting anything like that. In fact I’m not commenting at all. I didn’t even read this post or anybody else’s non-comments. I don’t even have a computer or a phone.

    • Mormos

      he doesn’t care if he is a shitty person, he just doesn’t want people to think he is a shitty person.

    • HooverVilles

      That’s it in a nutshell.

  • (((fka_donnie_d))), SOB

    I had a teacher who got hired by my school because her old school had fired her when they found out she had cancer.

    • Christ wept, that is horrendous.

      • (((fka_donnie_d))), SOB

        I mean, that’s what she said. I never followed up on it, and she seemed perfectly sane.

  • Ms.MLG on Maui

    It’s common sense that in most
    cases, if you hire sensibly, then treat employees with dignity and respect, pay them a living wage, and give them opportunities to advance and improve their situations, those employees will do a good job for you. They will stick around for a while. They will speak well of you, and your business. You will make more money in the long run by treating employees well. But I suppose that isn’t as much fun as behaving like an abusive partner, holding people’s ability to provide for themselves over their heads. This toxic attitude of ruling by fear needs to die in a fire.

    • Rebel Scum with permit

      These are business owners who go through multiple business failures and bankruptcies, like our shitty President, but they are never left holding the bag.

    • Funny thing, acting like a decent human being can benefit you.

      • Ms.MLG on Maui

        It benefits everyone, and we can’t have that!

        • mackafritz, v.s.g.

          Socialism!

        • HooverVilles

          Ding ding ding!

      • Zippy W Pinhead

        But probably not show results by next quarter, so it never happens.

        • Ms.MLG on Maui

          Exactly. They need that instant gratification, even if it costs them in the long run. So short-sighted.

          • HooverVilles

            I saw that a work constantly. Research and development projects were strongly tied to next quarter profits. Long range technology was incredibly hard to get funded.

            On the existing contract side management came up with a “brilliant” (they thought) way to squeeze even more money out of the system. It is called the two percent rule for the $ burn rate in fulfilling a contract.
            Regardless of how a contract was bid, a “bean counter” would draw a straight line spending profile from the beginning to the end of the contract. At no point in the contract would spending be allowed to be more than +/- 2% of that straight line spending profile regardless of breakthroughs or unexpected delays. Progress had to be within +/- 2% on a weekly basis.
            The jockying of money around to maintain that strict spending profile was amazing.

    • Commie.

  • Zippy W Pinhead

    “But unions suck, and they’re all corrupt. Besides, they are a relic from the distant past and we no longer need them. Why should I be forced to pay part of my paycheck in extortion?”

    There’s your answer, fucking morons…

    • jesterpunk

      They also say that unions are not fair for the companies.

      • TootsStansbury

        I just guffawed

      • Bobathonic

        Boo Fucking Hoo

      • JaveyDay

        CORP OR UNION is an anagram of POOR UNICORN

    • Given that virtually EVERY right, privilege, protection, and decent wages and working conditions in America was secured with blood, bodies and treasure by trade unions in the 20s and 30s… despite their many for-real issues, I am not ready to throw the unions under the bus JUST yet….

      • Zippy W Pinhead

        Hell, I’m about to write a check to my local for 2018 dues

  • OrG

    So, maybe we should give them a big tax cut and THEN they’ll treat us better.

    • What could go wrong?

    • Ms.MLG on Maui

      So much like an abusive relationship. If I don’t make him mad, he won’t hit me!

  • https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/41c80df33ab2d975ae9185a1e982477b1fbbde4e55d06b78f95b49bca68934a1.jpg

    Hopefully history will repeat itself again and people will tire of this fucking bullshit and realize that the only way we’re going to get treated like decent fucking human beings instead of ‘human resources’ is to unite and MAKE them treat us like human beings.

    • Good_Gawd_Yall

      I hate to pee in your Post Toasties, but I have several co-workers who are furious that we have to pay union dues. I try to tell them that if it weren’t for the union we wouldn’t be getting our paid 15-minute breaks for every 4 hours we work, and benefits, but they don’t listen. The reichwing, as always, has done a fabulous job convincing people that the exact opposite of what is in their best interest is the truth, and anything we say to try to convince them otherwise is fake news.

      • jesterpunk

        They also made it so unions have to negotiate for everyone even if they are not paying dues. They want the benefits without the costs that go with it too.

      • Zippy W Pinhead

        Your co-workers are idjits. I know lots of people like that- they’re idjits too.

        • Good_Gawd_Yall

          Uneducated. They did poorly in bad schools and watch Faux if they watch any news at all. Most of them talk only about movies, tv shows, etc, and there is one guy I know for sure is only barely functionally literate. They haven’t thought deeply about anything in their lives, and I would take a large bet that most of them either didn’t vote or voted for Dumpy because they knew who he was from tv.

  • Résistance Land Shark Ω
  • jesterpunk

    One thing with legal advice is they do not put up with the bullshit, there where some posts where people would try and argue “FMLA isnt fair because they have to have the other workers do more or temporarily hire someone” and legal advice will tell them to fuck off. Its part of doing business and also EVERY SINGLE OTHER COUNTRY manages to do paid mandatory vacation and family leave.

    Vacation

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_by_country#Countries

    Parental leave

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parental_leave#Variation_in_international_law

    • grindstone

      I will go full rage if we start talking about FMLA. The things companies do to deny your leave are myriad, and all bullshit. Unless you’re an exec. If you’re a worker, hey, sorry your mom’s dying but that useless report has to go out by Friday.

      • jesterpunk

        I actually got yelled at when I worked at KFC when I was younger for taking off for 3 funerals in less then a month. My uncle, grandfather and mother all died really close together and when I said I wasn’t coming in for the last one they said I had already been out for 2 recently and needed to schedule my leave better. I did tell them to fuck off and didn’t come in and went to the funeral instead. They got really mad for me being sarcastic when I said I would ask people in my family to schedule their deaths so it was more convenient for the company too.

        • godsaidHA

          I hope the last funeral wasn’t your mother’s. Hope you weren’t advised to schedule leave better for your MOTHER’S funeral. Sorry you had to go through that. I worked fast food back in the 70s, managers were more reasonable then.

          • Bigly smart jesterpunk

            Yeah the last one was my mother. I quit after that, there is no way I am staying at a place that doesnt respect their workers and tell them to schedule a death and funeral better for their convenience. Thank you though.

        • Celtic_Gnome

          Granddaughter had to have tests right after birth for various possible problems. New Dad (the spawn) worked as an assistant manager at a fast food place. He stayed at the hospital and slept on a couch in the room. They fired him.

          • Bigly smart jesterpunk

            I hope he sued them for that. That is some really shady shit and they wonder why turnover is so high.

    • SeekingIndictmentBarbie

      I support FLMA but it really can create a hardship for coworkers. I work in a 3-person department where a coworker has been granted FLMA for a year and is working a reduced schedule that is little more than half time. That means that 2 of us who are struggling to do our own full time jobs must try to cover what she doesn’t have time to do. Unfortunately, there is no possibility of hiring a temp worker to help. I have no family so will never need to use FLMA. The only “benefit” to me is that I might be able to accrue comp time (not even extra pay). I don’t begrudge her need, but resent employers who don’t respect the impact it has on other employees.

      • jesterpunk

        At least you recognize its the employers fault not the employees fault for taking off.

  • eyelashviper
    • Arolpin

      It was 12 years ago this week that my brother and I met Bruce in Sun Valley. My brother and Bruce got into a really deep discussion about labor songs, and Bruce took out his notebook and started taking notes on songs and songwriters that my brother recommended. (We also got to pointedly ignore Dennis Miller who was also in the bar and desperately trying to get us to fawn over him, and got to laugh as Bruce ignored him too.)

      • eyelashviper

        Great story, Bruce sure seems like a pretty smart and sensitive guy, and it is just delicious that Dennis Miller was ignored.

  • jesterpunk

    Remember back when companies where taxed at around 90% for the top rate? They would treat employees well to keep them working their for their entire career. The more we lower the tax rates the worse they treat people and the more they treat them like a nuisance taking away from the CEO’s bonus.

  • Evidence-based Ugly Dude

    There’s no “My baby is hungry” in the word “team.”

    • Daniel

      “Yeah, I’m gonna need you to not feed your infant child this week, and if you could just not complain about that, that’d be great.”

      • Bobathonic

        “slurp”

      • jesterpunk

        That was something the garbage person running for Flake’s seat actually said.

        • Royal Ugly Stable Genius

          “It’s just linear math. It scales up.”
          – future senator Craig Brittain

      • Lance Thrustwell

        Lumbergh!!

  • Angela Ruzzo

    Long long ago, in a galaxy far, far away, I worked for the Chairman of the Physiology Department at a Medical School as the Grant Coordinator. It was a salaried position, but I got a 15-minute break every morning and afternoon. At the time, I was crocheting an afghan as a wedding present for a relative, and I took my work bag to work and crocheted at my desk during my breaks. My boss was 60 years old and a total psycho lunatic, possibly a serial killer in his private life, and his four previous GC’s had quit within 6 months, and the one before those had worked for him for 5 years and suffered a mental breakdown and quit, which nobody at HR mentioned during my interview (and this explains why there were no internal applicants for that job). So I’m sitting at my desk crocheting on the second day and he calls me into his office and says I can’t do personal work at my desk, it looks bad, I have to use the staff break room. Now, the staff break room was 4 floors away and on the opposite side of the medical school, and it took more than 15 minutes just to get there and come back, leaving no time to do anything once you got there. I explained this. He didn’t care. He said “If I see you crocheting at your desk again I will fire you.” This is the same man who had an explosive temper tantrum because I put a paper clip on a document “the wrong way” (is there a right way and a wrong way? This was news to me). I quit 5 months later, and I did not qualify for unemployment and I did not list this job on my resume. I heard the woman he hired after me stayed there 18 months and then had a mental breakdown. This guy is dead now, thank god.

    • Me not sure

      Divinely voted off of the planet.

      • Angela Ruzzo

        Yeah, but whoever is in charge of that waited too long. The two secretaries were TERRIFIED of him, and he routinely humiliated the one faculty member who was very personable and very popular with students because that man had a Ph.D. but not an M.D.

    • BosGrl

      Angela, I had a boss like this and I was told it was her “management style” and basically I had to lump it. She called me, screaming, once and said I was “failing”, when I was giving her 60-hour weeks (salaried, so no OT). I gave her many years x 60 hours a week, time I didn’t spend with my daughter, which, of course, leads to much guilt and second-guessing, time I will never get back. Unfortunately, she’s still around, though I stay in touch with others who are not shy in hoping karma bites her, hard.

      • Angela Ruzzo

        That’s sickening. I had at least 4 bosses like yours and the psycho I described. I refused to put up with it, I just quit and found a better job. This was not always easy to do, but I was single and had no dependents and I had supportive parents, which is not true of everyone.

        • BosGrl

          Right. Most of us have to put up with it or be homeless.

          • Angela Ruzzo

            Sadly true. But this is something I thought about when I was a teenager … I looked around at my family and relatives and neighbors and friends’ families, and I thought “it’s better to stay single and free of obligations, otherwise your choices can be limited.” I do not regret this decision in any way, but it is a difficult choice.

          • BosGrl

            I’m just glad you *have* the choice. That is the most important thing.

          • Angela Ruzzo

            Absolutely right!!! Gimme a C! Gimme an H! Gimme an O! Gimme an I! Gimme another C! Gimme an E! Let’s hear it for CHOICE! CHOICE! CHOICE! Hardly anyone had choices until about 100 years ago, not even most men. My father only had the choice to go to college because of WWII and the G.I. bill. My mother told me that in her youth, a woman had only 4 career choices – wife, teacher, nurse and prostitute, and teachers and nurses had to quit of they got married. My Italian grandmother didn’t even get to choose her own husband. Without choice, you are a slave, whether the law says you are or not.

          • BosGrl

            YES

  • Lefty Wright

    Yeah, with the baby formula thing, do farmers never go to the grocery store? Can’t they grow everything the need on their farm?

    • LeftyProud

      Beaides the fact it is none of her employers god damned business that she supplements with formula!! But your point is valid, I just had to vent.

    • sarafina

      Dad had a dairy operation when we four kids were born and ALL of us drank cow’s milk. I don’t know if mom had issues (and I’m not going to ask) but we all turned out reasonable well.

  • ariel_gee_398

    She shouldn’t worry – the government will probably eliminate WIC in the next few months and she won’t have a problem.

    • jesterpunk

      They will also get rid of FMLA.

      • natoslug

        Fuck My Life, America?

        • jesterpunk

          Family Medical Leave Act.

    • BosGrl

      WIC is such a fucking no-brainer. Formula is ridiculously expensive and not all women can nurse. I swear to God, they want these kids under-nourished so the kids can’t succeed and the assholes have their workforce.

      • Good_Gawd_Yall

        Wul, yeah.

      • Arolpin

        The worst part is that you can’t get formula covered by insurance, and you can’t use your medical savings account to pay for it either.
        When the Arol-twins were born, they were 10 weeks premature, and my wife had been on strict bed rest in the hospital for 5 weeks already. She never was able to produce much milk, and because the babies were really medically fragile, they couldn’t nurse well. Her milk dried up months before they were out of the hospital, we needed a special, even more expensive formula, and even with the pediatrician writing it as a prescription, we couldn’t get it covered.
        When we finally had to put in a feeding tube for one son, the EXACT SAME FORMULA was fully covered by insurance and deliver to our door by the case with no issues.
        I get that you want to encourage mothers to breastfeed, but not every woman can, and rules that prohibit formula being covered by insurance (unless it’s delivered through a GI tube) just makes it worse.
        Luckily both boys came through with flying colors, even if they are small. (Their wrestling coaches love that they have the lowest two weight classes manned with beastly fighters who don’t need to cut weight for the next 7 years.)

        • Good_Gawd_Yall

          I’m glad you had a positive outcome with your boys! I was afraid of where this story might be going when you first started.

          • Arolpin

            I’ve been very lucky. The OB we chose was great, her mentor was a specialist in high-risk pregnancies, and they were affiliated with the best NICU in the NYC metro. We had great insurance, and my job did everything they could to accommodate us.
            It was a rough first 4 months, but once they were home from the hospital, we had lots of family and friends to help out.
            The hospital had a long-term premie program that we used, and NY had great early-intervention programs that we used when they were lagging in physical development.
            Now I have healthy, happy, smart tough kids, which is what I want everyone to have. I’m just really glad I was working for a company that gave us the best insurance available, rather than the shitty insurance we were given after we were bought by a crappy company. This was pre-Obamacare, so even in NY they deductibles could have been 10s of thousands of dollars.

        • BosGrl

          Exactly! I just looked it up – Enfamil Premium (and you probably needed something even more special) is almost $30 a can. For two kids, that wouldn’t last a week. Not everyone has an additional $200/month, on top of diapers and wipes (no choice but disposable if you work and your kid goes to daycare),, for hundreds more. For some people, it would be either pay the rent or take care of your child’s most basic needs.

          Happy for your boys and glad they are doing well. It sounds like they have wonderful parents.

  • Bub, the cynical zombie

    To all “job creators:” If your business plan depends on underpaying and overworking your employees, treating them like shit and firing them capriciously for no good reason, go fuck yourself.

    CC: John Schatter

    • theblackdog

      CC: Silicon Valley

  • SayItWithWookies

    Not only does at-will employment need to go the way of the booby, but if you have someone working for you full-time, that person’s salary should be sufficient to pay for food, clothing and shelter, period. Having full-time employees who don’t make enough to support themselves is bullshit. Looking at you, Walmart. And the US military.

    • BosGrl

      I don’t know what’s worse – companies that give info to their employees on how to apply for benefits, or one who is angry because you’re getting benefits.

      • Good_Gawd_Yall

        Why not both?

  • BosGrl

    After reading this, I am trying to breathe calmly. The boss, twirling his curly mustache, I assume, while telling his employee she should be ashamed for wanting to feed her child, and the boss with, I assume, bookshelves full of trophies for all kinds (one definitely for high school football) in his office, telling a guy, hey, it’s nothing personal.

    • Celtic_Gnome

      I had a boss with the stuffed head of some African herbivore, I forget which one.

      I always wanted to ask them what they tasted like, ’cause, if you didn’t eat it why’d you kill it?

  • Bill D. Burger
    • Miss Dill

      Almost spit out my drink. Thank you for this.

  • Bub, the cynical zombie
    • Carpe Vagenda

      That guy in the office who thinks it’s clever to poke your side while you’re stretching hasn’t done it since I screamed “Jesus fuck” at the top of my lungs.

    • Debbie the Unpaid Protester

      I can’t imagine any of my coworkers, male or female, groping me like either picture. And sure, the one on the left is “just” a hand on the shoulder, but ewwww, what a violation of personal space.

  • Me not sure
  • Daniel

    “It reflects badly on me if my employee is using WIC. It makes it look like I don’t pay you enough. I hope you can understand that if I find out you are continuing to use government assistance, I will have to fire you.”

    To me this epitomises the attitude of so many on the right, including but not limited to the President. The problem to them is not the horrible thing they’re doing, it’s the criticism they face for it. They want to be thought of as good people without ever actually having to do anything good. They want praise and praise only, and interpret anything else not merely as unpleasant but as entirely unwarranted and worthy of retribution.
    I shouldn’t have to improve- you should be made to shut up.

  • (((Sedagive)))

    Mister Sedagive was a union rep for years. He went up against News Corp (Murdock) lawyers all the time. The stories he told about people being axed because they were just about to qualify for benefits, etc, was bloodcurdling.

    Even with a strong union there’s an unrelenting aggression against workers in this country. Without, it’s flat-out exploitation.

    As an American citizen living abroad I could only gaze back at this country and wonder why my fellow citizens were so beaten down that they chose to live like serfs, without significant benefits like vacation time or family leave. I’ll never understand it.

    • Everrett Fanuelli

      A lot of workers, unfortunately, buy into this “unions are bad” bullshit.

      • (((Sedagive)))

        I know, but how do you get people to screw themselves and their families over? Why would you vote for someone whose job it is to make sure you suffer?

        It must be rooted in bigotry somehow – everything pathetic, insane and hateful usually is.

        • TootsStansbury

          They’ve been lied to for a half century.

          • (((Sedagive)))

            I”m chalking it up to greed, stupidity and magical thinking.

    • Christopher Story

      I think a lot of it has to do with the Puritan bent of our particular culture. The idea that work is supposed to be it’s own reward, and anything that detracts from work is a sin.

  • La forza del resistino

    ‘At-will employment is garbage …’
    This old Wobbly wants to adopt you Robyn.

  • Everrett Fanuelli

    I feel bad for these folks, but a lot of people in the workforce see unions as a bad thing. I’m not saying these particular people do, but a lot of people bitch about unions and then cry when their boss fires them for no reason.

    • Daniel

      I have to say I still think that it’s fucking rubbish if you have to join a union to avoid your employer treating you like shit.

      • Good_Gawd_Yall

        It is, but that’s the fault of the oligarchs, not the unions.

        • Debbie the Unpaid Protester

          I am so grateful that the Republicans in MN haven’t succeeded in banning public employee unions yet, like our neighbors to the east in WI.
          My union (in a college) is represented by the Teamsters, and I feel relatively protected in my job. I feel dedicated to my job, and I like to work hard, but that’s because I feel “taken care of” by my employer.

          I can’t imagine the worry I would feel if I had at-will employment. It seems like that constant worry would sap an employee’s strength, make them more prone to illness, and make them less creative and less dedicated to working hard.

      • Bub, the cynical zombie

        In an ideal world, employers would recognize the importance of having a stable, contented, committed, loyal group of employees, would treat them accordingly, and unions would be unnecessary. That is not the world we live in.

        • TootsStansbury

          My huge multinational company won’t and because of that, can’t retain talent. They think any schmo could do the skilled, technical work needed, or they can contract it out. It’s a set up for failure and likely by design.

  • Carpe Vagenda

    FWIW, one of Cuomo’s signature initiatives is poverty, which includes ending food insecurity by making assistance more easily available and raising the minimum wage, so I’m pretty sure she should get in touch with the state Department of Human Rights people to discuss (among other things) Family Responsibility Discrimination.

    • The Librarian

      My first thought was that evil boss was discriminating against that woman for needing assistance. Glad to see there’s something in place against it. JFC, I’m downvoting those bosses eleventy billion times.

      • Carpe Vagenda

        There’s also the breastfeeding thing. That’s a huge no-no.

        Hard to believe he put that stuff in writing.

        • The Librarian

          Indeed, but it’s legal ammunition to use against him.

  • Ωbjectifier
    • TootsStansbury

      Wobblies weeble and they don’t fall down.

  • WilbyToad
  • GreenGoldSharpie

    Newsflash: they can fire you for discrimination too. They just have to be sneaky about it and plan for it.

    I’m a perfect example.

  • Bill D. Burger
    • GreenGoldSharpie

      Don’t forget that the gummint keeps giving all his tax dollars to those shifty, no good ni- Oh, right, can’t say that in public… YET

      • Christopher Story

        Sam Bee had a great piece on that very reason being why LBJ’s push for a national healthcare system failed. The racists would rather lose a foot to diabetes if it meant sticking it to the blacks.

  • Everrett Fanuelli
  • schmannity

    See? Walmart is much more enlightened. It allows employees to donate to a food bank to help fellow underpaid employees

  • Kateaux

    Times never change, do they? My dad was a minister. The congregation wasn’t paying him enough to make ends meet. In that time and place, it was utterly verboten for the pastor’s wife to work outside the home, so my mom couldn’t go out and get a job. So dad went out and got some kind of part-time thing — and the congregation voted to fire him, because by taking on that extra work, he was making them look bad in the community.
    (Story had a decent ending, though. He left the full-time ministry and went to work for the state government’s employment agency, matching up employers and job seekers. Much better pay and benefits, plus he was still making a positive contribution to society.)

    • TootsStansbury

      Jesus. They sound nice.

      • Résistance Land Shark Ω

        “Hey! Don’t bring me into this shit!”

        • AnnieGetYerFun

          You built this, JC.

      • Kateaux

        Some of the people in that church were actually some of the best, most giving people I’ve ever known. And some of them were absolute bastards.

        • Résistance Land Shark Ω

          And sadly, the absolute bastards are usually the loudest and most vocal.

  • Spotts1701, Porg Wrangler

    I work on the management side, so often I have to deal with managers and supervisors who do not grasp that “just cause” means there needs to be documentation. There needs to be previous discipline (absent severe actions such as a criminal offense, improper physical restraint of a student, or abandonment of position). There needs to be parallel information in the performance evaluation. If you expect me to defend you in front of the union and for the last 10 years you’ve given the employee excellent reviews and commendations…well, I’ll do my job but I can’t perform a miracle.
    But you want someone gone “just because”? Nope. And you can ask my boss and you can ask the general counsel, and they’ll tell you the same. No sale.

    • AnnieGetYerFun

      Of course, that’s with a union.

      • Spotts1701, Porg Wrangler

        We do the same process with our non-union folks – I’m at will, but I still have the same rights as a union employee in a similar job class. The only people who don’t get these rights are the upper leadership. Even our substitutes and fill-ins get basic due process.

    • FlownΩver

      Wherever you are, it isn’t Kansastan.

  • OrG

    If we taught history adequately in this country people would know this is bullshit,why it’s bullshit and what to do about it.
    No wonder they LOVE the poorly-educated.

    • GreenGoldSharpie

      I teach history. We teach it fine, and people just don’t give a fuck.

      You can’t teach empathy.

      • Jennaratrix

        Amen. I also teach history, at the college level, and it’s often a losing battle. Many of my students come in with their minds already set on a given topic. For example, during a discussion of World War II and the interment camps the US put Japanese-Americans in, I have had students scream “fake news!” and call me unpatriotic for daring to suggest that Murka would do such a thing. Aside from whether or not they’ve ever read a history book prior to taking my class, you’d think they’d have at least heard of George Takei. They also have their minds made up about the Civil War (not fought over slavery), monuments to Confederate “heroes” (not traitors), and I’ve even had students argue that the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire wasn’t as bad as the book was making it sound, and that the author obviously had an agenda when discussing it.

        You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink. If they don’t want to believe something because it contradicts a strongly held belief, they just don’t believe it.

        • TootsStansbury

          Well this is horrifying. Fuck holding on for the elections, I’m just going to give up.

          • Jennaratrix

            You have no idea. NO FUCKING IDEA. There is a permanent dent in my desk from all the headdesking.

          • TootsStansbury

            How? How did so many get so misinformed? Democracy can’t exist in this environment.

          • MC Planck

            They chose to be mis-informed.

            You are right that democracy cannot exist in such an environment; but to them, that is a feature, not a bug.

          • Miss Dill

            They do choose it. I “had” some old friends from high school – 3 of them – who voted for Trump. I tried making peace with that but just couldn’t because I knew these people well enough to know they voted for him as a f-u to liberals and the well-educated. Seriously, they did that.

          • MC Planck

            My favorite uncle and his family voted Trump. When I pointed out various evils of the Twitler, he responded with a crack about “someone of your intellect.”

            It is amazing how much Trump has destroyed. He is like the black hole of dignity.

          • Miss Dill

            Yes,Trump is a divider. It truly is sad.

          • Miss Dill

            It does make you want to give up sometimes and I am grateful for all the teachers out there who don’t give up. Stupidity is intractable.

  • Bill D. Burger
  • OutOfOrbit

    Until the next MLK Jr or Bobby Kennedy comes along to lead us, we ain’t goin nowhere but down

  • eyelashviper
  • Angela Ruzzo

    The last time I checked, paternity leave was classified as a type of unpaid FMLA leave, and nobody can fire you for taking FMLA leave. They get around this by calling it a “termination” that has nothing to do with the FMLA leave, but this is often transparently false and a good lawyer can smash this argument with very little trouble, due to lots of precedent law. In this man’s case it is very obviously transparently false since they offered him the chance to reapply for his own job.

    • jesterpunk

      The thing they count on is having more money then the person suing and being able to beat them by bankrupting them.

      • Angela Ruzzo

        Very true. But in a case this transparent, it is sometimes possible to find an attorney who will take the case on consignment. This is not easy to do, but it is not impossible.

        • Suse

          Most plaintiff attys take cases on contingency. I know an excellent labor atty in CA and wish I could get this man together with her.

        • jesterpunk

          Which is also why the right keeps pushing tort reform to make it harder for anyone to sue unless they are a jerb creator and rich.

  • TootsStansbury

    I’m really too grown up and pragmatic to be a Socialist but this shit? Scratch a Toots, there’s a raging Socialist!

    • commatoes

      In most democracies, a certain degree of Socialism is accepted.

      One irony I find sad and galling, is when I hear a police officer, fire fighter, other public worker, being ignorantly critical of Socialism. Are you f*cking kidding me? Your job exists because of Socialism.

  • Everrett Fanuelli

    I still feel the after tax take home pay going up next month for most Americans will stem a lot of the upcoming blue wave in November. While other things will increase, we might see a delay in that. Americans care more about an extra 50 bucks in their pocket than they do about anything else, including obstruction of justice and treason.

    • mfp, all 6s&7s&9s

      i hope you’re wrong, but…this is ‘murrica

    • jesterpunk

      Those same people will be pissed in 2019 when they realize those tax cuts are actually costing them more money when they cant deduct their mortgage or student loan interest.

      • Everrett Fanuelli

        I agree, but the midterms are in 2018.

      • Spotts1701, Porg Wrangler

        Student loan interest was kept in as an above-the-line deduction, along with tuition waiver and tuition deduction.

        • theblackdog

          It’s such a mess trying to figure it out I’m in the process of looking for an accountant or other financial expert that can help sort it out and see how my upcoming marriage will affect this.

          • Spotts1701, Porg Wrangler

            I told my folks to talk to the financial planner again. Dad’s being forced to retire on disability, and they talked to the planner before the tax law passed. I told them to go back because things may change.

            As it is, Dad was extremely smart about his pension (he bought his military time to roll into his federal pension) and his Thrift Savings Plan, so they might be okay if everything shakes out.

    • ariel_gee_398

      I suspect when the IRS manages to work out withholdings and what should be done with W-4s, people will be less pleased.

    • Celtic_Gnome

      It’s too bad Donnie needed a win his first year. People aren’t going to remember the increase once they become used to it unless there’s nothing else going on to drive that out of their minds.

      And you know this administration is going to have lots and lots of those between now and November.

  • AnnieGetYerFun

    I know fuck-all about the law, but am fairly certain that your boss can’t fire you for how you buy your groceries because that’s discrimination (social class) which would be against federal law. Do any law-knowin’ Wonkette types have concrete law-talkin’ information on this?

    Also, the maternity leave one would be fairly easy to sue over. I think? Not affordable to sue, though.

    • Spotts1701, Porg Wrangler

      FMLA would cover the latter case, provided the employer qualified under the law to provide it.

      In the former, probably not. Discrimination protection hasn’t quite reached social class yet. New York state has a fairly broad definition of discrimination (it covers things like discrimination based on caregiver status, arrest or conviction record, status as a victim of domestic violence, stalking, and sex offenses). But social class is still excluded.

      • ariel_gee_398

        WIC is specifically a family benefit, though. If he was dumb enough to text her specifically about WIC, she might get close enough to a family status discrimination claim to get him to back down and/or settle if he does fire her.

        • Suse

          I believe she has a good case, actually.

          • sarafina

            But can she afford a lawyer?

        • commatoes

          So much like the corporate ethos of modern America.

          It is not the corporation’s imperative to take care of workers. It is for profit.

          So basically, like many other things, the profits are private but the costs public.

      • AnnieGetYerFun

        Huh. That’s just fucking crazy as fuck.

    • Angela Ruzzo

      Unfortunately, neither social class or being a breastfeeding mother are a “protected class.” They should be, but they aren’t. There are only 7 federally protected classes:
      Race
      Color
      Religion
      Sex
      Handicap
      Familial Status
      National Origin

      In my state, there are 9 protected classes (this varies by state):
      race
      color
      religion
      national origin
      ancestry
      sex
      disability
      age (in employment only)
      familial status (in housing only)

      • Spotts1701, Porg Wrangler

        We’ve added age, disability, sexual orientation, gender identity and/or expression, military or National Guard status, genetic information, and pregnancy. And it’s both actual and perceived.

        • Angela Ruzzo

          That’s wonderful! Where do you live? Can I move there? Just joking, I’m retired and settled and when I moved here in 2009 I swore on a stack of Constitutions that I would never move again unless I won the lottery, in which case I’m moving to Cornwall.

      • AnnieGetYerFun

        I really do need to get out of here. I had a job interview in Canada yesterday and the two managers interviewing me were actually angry at the US for not having guaranteed paid maternity leave.

        • Angela Ruzzo

          Go for it. I had a chance at a job in Canada back in 1987, and I passed it up because I thought it was too cold up there. I regret that now.

  • Bill D. Burger
    • Résistance Land Shark Ω

      Commies! All of them!

      • Suse

        They should all be investigated immediately!

      • Christopher Story

        McCarthy is on it!

      • commatoes

        The mouthbreathing GOP factions will be slavishly chanting, “Where’s St. Reagan?”

        • sarafina

          Wasn’t Senile Ronnie a big union supporter for actors?

          • commatoes

            Yup and he signed an assault weapons ban in CA because… scary black men exercising !st Amend. rights. But don’t forget the firing of air traffic controllers and his 1961 LP on medicare and socialism.

            criticized Social Security for supplanting private savings and
            warned that subsidized medicine would curtail Americans’ freedom” and
            that “pretty soon your son won’t decide when he’s in school, where he
            will go or what he will do for a living. He will wait for the government
            to tell him.

            *from the Wikipedia entry on the LP

    • Mormos

      FAKE NEWS! YOU MADE THOSE QUOTES UP.

  • GRH
    • MC Planck

      That is the best poster ever.

  • Christopher Story
  • Bill D. Burger
  • Me not sure

    The American worker is one of the most productive and under rewarded in the world. Until they decide to organize, unite and vote into office pro-worker representatives they will continue to be kicked to the ground like unloved dogs by the people who exploit them.

    • jesterpunk

      “Yeah but I am super awesome and not one of those lazy people who get paid for doing nothing, eventually the company will reward me with lots of money. Unions are bad and unfair to companies too.”

      Right wing workers

      • Me not sure

        They don’t need to be told to fuck themselves, they’re already at it.

        • jesterpunk

          They willingly take it too.

      • Angela Ruzzo

        Absolutely, and I need that union dues amount every month to make payments on a brand new pickup truck for my spouse (true story, I heard a neighbor say this).

        • theblackdog

          *Blink blink* Unions are taking $700 a month in dues?

          • Angela Ruzzo

            The truck payment is $450/mo. And don’t forget the maxxed out credit card bills and the second-hand car they want to buy for Junior who turns 16 this year, and then there is that boat the father has his eyes on, not to mention a second AK-47 so father and Junior can go shooting together and have a male bonding experience.

          • theblackdog

            Hah! Of course, but it’s still totally the union’s fault they’re up to their eyeballs in debt.

          • HooverVilles

            Of course it is. Isn’t that obvious?
            SIGH!

    • GreenGoldSharpie

      Which won’t happen for a long time.

      No one cares until they’re the one kicked. It’s why I’ve given up on the economic side of the equation in a lot of ways. Much easier to find a friendly shoulder and solidarity in social causes.

    • Daniel

      Trump hates dogs.

      • BosGrl

        On behalf of dogs everywhere, PHEW!

    • Jeff Ackerman

      I was the goon from the union for years. Most people are too afraid to unionize. Those that need union representation most, get it the least. People identify with their occupation and employer way too much. Their social and economic status is tied to their work and employer. Unions are far too often seen as an outsider, when the truth is the employees are the union. The majority of people cannot afford to stumble at work, easy credit and poor wages/benefits hold them back. Strikes are usually the best tool to unionize, but people cannot afford to. To paraphrase Thoreau, the average worker leads a life of quiet despair. This will not change.

      • Me not sure

        This is where voting for people willing to institute strong worker protections comes in. The only party that will raise wages by law are the Democrats. A stepped raise in the national minimum wage is the only way to pry wealth out of the hands of the capitalist class in short order.

  • schmannity

    Gosh, it’s not like a reactionary right wing legislature hasn’t tried to crush the poor and still deems the woman as needy. St. Paul Ryan will eliminate the need by reforming our welfare queen assistance programs

    • AnnieGetYerFun

      I will the pinch the next person who calls Social Security an “entitlement” in such a way that makes it sound as though we have a lot of nerve to expect it after paying into the system for our entire working lives.

      • Résistance Land Shark Ω

        Get in line.

      • OrG

        EARNED BENEFIT!

      • Natalie Au Natural Hedonist

        IKR? The first time a heard an (R) politician call SS that I was like “What entitlement? The one I’ve been paying into since I was 15?”

  • The Wanderer
  • Apple Scruff

    Pete Souza has been on fire the past couple of days LOL: https://www.instagram.com/p/BdnfuK6lbHX/

    petesouza Heading to the stable (noun, 1. a building for the lodging and feeding of horses, etc.)

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BdnfuK6lbHX/?taken-by=petesouza

    • Daniel

      Someone should send this picture to Roy Moore.

      • Résistance Land Shark Ω

        NO!

        It would make Sassy have a sad.

      • Ellie

        To show him someone that has a decent seat on a horse?

    • Red Richmond

      Nice appaloosa!

  • AnnieGetYerFun

    In only vaguely related news, I saw a commercial in Canada last night that featured a woman breastfeeding. It really drove home just how much American culture hates women.

    ETA: I never could breastfeed and find the “breast is best” campaign here annoying, but just the idea that you can see a woman boob-feeding on the boob tube without outcry was… almost revolutionary.

    • commatoes

      Female toplessness is not legal, but not prosecuted in my province on Ontario. Personally, I get a bit uncomfortable because, as a hetero male, I still sexualise breasts. But I know this is a mental thing along the lines of a micro bikini being acceptable outdoors but lingerie, that might cover substantially more, is sexualised.

      • AnnieGetYerFun

        Toplessness is one thing. A baby sucking on a boob is another.

        • commatoes

          I am still working on it. I grew up in the 70’s and 80’s when breast feeding in public was rare and the ingrained sexualisation of breasts was programmed into me (the situations that my teenage self encountered bare breasts were very specific). I am not as bad as Pence or AG Ashcroft that will not look at a statue’s bare breasts (I am making an assumption about Pence). I know it is purely a psychological association that I am still working on.

  • Martini A, very stable genius

    Whadda ya wanna bet that job creator #1 is not using his mega-MAGA tax break to pay his employees enough that they won’t need government assistance?

    • jesterpunk

      $100 billion dollars. When will you send me the check?

      • Martini A, very stable genius

        It’s already in the mail, along with your Soros bux.

    • commatoes

      Remember he earned every cent he ever made.

      His employees are just recipients of he largesse.

  • GreenGoldSharpie
    • Angela Ruzzo

      Great song. I had not heard it before. Thanks.

  • cloudbase

    Yay Montana!?!?

  • Good_Gawd_Yall

    I think going to the media is a good solution for both of these people. The boss who was ashamed to be seen as someone who didn’t pay enough would get outed in the best possible way, while I’m sure others would offer better jobs with better pay to the woman, who would be seen as sympathetic (unless she is black or very overweight, which are both traits that somehow shut down empathy). The man who’s just trying to make the best possible life for his future child and do the least disruption to his job is also a sympathetic character. I would bet he would get job offers, too.
    And these bosses need public shaming. Too bad the stocks are only for tourists taking funny pictures, now.

    • jesterpunk

      Depends on the area, if its a right wing area they will wind up worse off when people start attacking them for daring to expect to be treated like a human being.

      • commatoes

        But the job creators…

  • altleftjohn
    • Raan

      Attorney and co-defendant, Gracie?

      I guess this proves the old adage that any man who represents himself has a fool for a client.

    • thixotropic jerk

      “Although I saw myself as being an entrepreneur, a jobs provider, and a contributor to the American economy, I’ve learned that others view me through a different lens,” Tucker wrote. “I am very sorry that our leaders castigate me as a villain, or some type of predator.”

      Way to come clean with that non-apology apology Tucker, you fucker. 1,000% interest! Totally entrepreneurial! I remember those ads that hyped their “Native American PayDay Loans” because the Redman would never exploit you! (See casinos.)

  • BosGrl

    I guess that boss would fire all the soldiers whose families need food stamps. He’s right, though, it doesn’t make us look very good that we don’t pay people in the military enough for their families to eat.

    • shivaskeeper

      Military pay is different thing. Pay scale is based on rank and time in service and benefits are the same across the board. There is no negotiating a higher or lower wage or better bennies.

      The simple truth is that military pay is not really structured for the young troops to have families. It’s similar with some of the bennies like Basic Allowance for Housing. For enlisted troops it’s not structured to pay a mortgage for a single family detached home until you are least E-8. Until then, you should be renting or maybe buying a condo.

      The bonus is everyone gets paid the same regardless of gender, age, or any thing else.

      • BradtheBot

        I’m not certain about today, but back in the day, my youngest troops with families and kids did qualify for assistance.

        However, there was a bit of false equivalence going on. The military provides either free housing on base or a basic housing allowance to married members. They also provide a basic subsistence allowance to replace the dining facilities (chow hall for those of a certain age) for members who are married.

        Neither of those allowances are taxable, nor, as I understood it, were included in the pay calculations for government assistance.

        Those families also enjoyed free or very low cost health care benefits that many families not in the military who qualify for assistance don’t enjoy.

        I’m not suggesting that the young families I knew didn’t benefit from the government assistance; just that the situation at that time simply wasn’t analogous to the random civilian family who qualified for comparable assistance.

        I bought my first house as an E-5, and, by the time I retired as an E-9, I owned property in three states (from houses I’d purchased then kept and leased when I was reassigned)

        I’m not a recruiter whose goal it is to convince people to join the military; however, I do occasionally react when the military is portrayed in a less positive light than my experience suggests it should be.

        *Note that I haven’t been in the military for 17 years now, and it’s possible my experience may not track 100% with the experience of present service members.

        • shivaskeeper

          I did say comparing military pay to a civilian was not a fair comparison.

          Your experience is pretty close to the modern one. Usually e1-through E-4 with families can easily qualify for assistance. Usually EBT/Food Stamps and WIC.

          As for the housing allowance, post housing is OK, but now the Army wants to keep senior folks on post. You can keep several junior enlisted families off post for the cost of one E-8. It also means you only need one set of quarters on post and the local community can take up the housing burden.

          I was also not saying you can’t buy a house before being an E-8, just that the BAH is not structured for it. The calculations, depending on rank, are based on 2 and 3 bedroom apartments, condos, multifamily houses, then single detached dwellings.

          Costs are up now too. Married troops, regardless of rank need two cars, for instance. Unless the spouse is supposed to stay home or drop the troop off every day.

          Things are still pretty good for junior Joes and their families when all the bennies are calculated, but it’s still not enough to make ends meet all the time.

  • WotsAllThisThen

    Maybe if we have their bosses another tax cut?

  • Résistance Land Shark Ω
    • jesterpunk

      “Look there are bad people on both sides…. on both sides”

    • WotsAllThisThen

      Did he have a permit?

    • commatoes

      So a white guy is being charged as a terrorist?

      Remember the good old days when we could look a guy that looks like Tim McVey, and say confidently, “Yup, dem dere be a terrorist.”

  • GHERKINS du RESISTANCE!

    I usually don’t agree with doxxing because it potentially exposes someone to toxic dangerous loonies in real life.

    However, if she’s fired, she should definitely doxx that business, and possibly the manager.

    Subsequent workers should be alerted to what they might face, and obviously if the dick is worried about public opinion so much, he should feel the effects of it.

    • jesterpunk

      Name and Shame.

    • Good_Gawd_Yall

      Doxx the business and let the newspapers find out who the boss is? I mean, the effect would basically be the same – if the guy didn’t doxx himself by coming out shouting his side of the story.

    • shivaskeeper

      Neither of those things is doxxing. Naming the business or the boss is not even close to doxxing.

      Publishing the bosses home address, phone, email, and social media pages would be doxxing. Naming the business or publishing it’s address would also not qualify. A simple internet search of the name would give you the physical and mailing addresses, and contact numbers and email addresses. You cannot doxx a business.

    • Ill-Advised

      Welcome to Glassdoor.

    • Moar Wordz

      Been doxxed on epic scale and in more ways than one. I’m surprised I’m still alive.

  • altleftjohn
    • Suse

      I was just going to post Joan Baez’s version, but this is lovely.

    • Résistance Land Shark Ω

      I’ve never heard that version. He has a beautiful, but melancholy, voice that brings the song to life.

      • Ellie

        That man could sing the phone book and it would sound wonderful. When I was little, my parents had records of spirituals sung by Robeson; I listened to them for hours. His voice always makes me feel like I’m floating in chocolate milk. Yes, I know that’s weird, but nevertheless… I also recommend his Jerusalem which is sort of a strange combo, but it’s beautiful. For just listening to the words of Joe Hill, I go with Pete Seeger, but for losing myself in the music, it has to be Paul Robeson.

  • OutOfOrbit

    We need a champion, to lead us …

    *Crickets*

    • Résistance Land Shark Ω

      LORAX 2020?

      • Zippy W Pinhead

        ORGANIZE THE TREES!

    • Moar Wordz

      Hillary not Warren

  • SadDemInTex

    Out these assholes.

  • AnnieGetYerFun

    I guess my only advice would be to see if you can get the admission over email or on tape and then send it to the media

  • jesterpunk
  • JohnBull

    When Republicans think of “freedom,” this is what they’re talking about. And guns. Lots of guns.
    Getting fired for no reason and guns and smelly people at Wal Mart. This is America to them.

    • jesterpunk

      Dont they realize that letting everyone have more guns then gun shops and firing them with no way to feed themselves will lead to more shootings?

      • Christopher Story

        More shootings, less firings

        • jesterpunk

          A big win for job creators when they can brag about hiring hundreds of new people every year.

          • Moar Wordz

            And then firing them ? When the consultants come for a friendly chat ?

        • Daniel

          Sorry but pedant pet peeve:

          fewer firings.

          Sorry. I am unbarible.

          • Christopher Story

            *hat tip* I enjoy learning :)

          • Marion in Savannah

            With less bullets? (I know, I know… just pulling your chain!)

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            Great taste

            Fewer fillings

      • Marion in Savannah

        Well, it thins the herd donchaknow. Less moneez going to scroungers and takers. I guess they haven’t quite twigged to the fact that the people who will be dying off is their base.

      • shivaskeeper

        It won’t be them getting shot, so who cares? They will maintain gun free workplaces or have heavy security around when they fire the armed workers and trust that they will snap off premises and take it out on someone else.

    • JustPixelz (((Ω)))

      And not baking cakes.

    • commatoes

      When they reminisce about days past, they are being nostalgic for a time when (post FDR) there was more government intervention, government guaranteed loans post WW2 (VA Loans), and tighter restrictions on business (Standard Oil, anti monopoly laws, etc.).

  • GRH
  • Nounverb911
    • Marion in Savannah

      WTF is he on about? Unless he’s as horrified as I am that you can now get Twinkies with chocolate flavored Naugamilk in them. That shit’s just RONG.

      • BosGrl

        Every week, there’s a new Twinkie monstrosity in the supermarket.

        • Marion in Savannah

          Worse than chocolate Naugamilk? Both Mr. MinS and I shuddered in horror and averted our eyes from that one. I can see that I’m going to have to start avoiding that aisle in the market altogether if it gets worse.

          • Shan

            I have to walk past them to get to the…everything else, basically.

          • BosGrl

            Yeah, I think there’s a red velvet and some other Christmas thing we saw. Crazy.

        • janecita

          Too be fair, the original Twinkie is also a monstrosity, 🤢!

          • BosGrl

            It really is.

        • Msgr_MΩment

          That’s what HE said.

      • shivaskeeper

        Hostess axed Twinkies a long while back because they fucked over the union bakers by giving them a union negotiated raise. The raise was not going to show up in the paychecks but was going to go into retirement accounts. Except they never paid the money into the accounts. When they got called on it they declared bankruptcy for that division and were going to pull Twinkies off the market. The execs got a bonus for saving money.

        That’s the short version.

        • Marion in Savannah

          Then where are the Twinkies in the market coming from? Not Hostess?

          • shivaskeeper

            Restructured and reopened it. There was some more corporate fuckery involved, but they eventually reopened that division.

          • sarafina

            Mexico.

        • Moar Wordz

          I thought this was a parable.
          Something told over a 🍺 at a bar.
          Then I realized it was true & possibly why I wasn’t seeing Twinkies at Tedeschi’s.
          Or anywhere else.

          • shivaskeeper

            They are back now.

  • JustPixelz (((Ω)))

    Back in the 1980s I worked for an I.T. consulting company and was assigned to a fairly large family-owned Brooklyn firm for a while. Their (the Brooklyn company) policy was to only hire single women in the office. Not for sexual predation (as far as I could tell), but because married women were more likely to become pregnant, increasing various costs. I have no doubt the owners were Republicans. Pro-life! Pro-family!

    In the 1970s I had been assigned to another company. Rumor had it that the son of the owner routinely demanded BJs from women in the plant. Even then, and even I (lover of BJs that I am) thought, that was repulsive behavior.

  • Zippy W Pinhead
    • Angela Ruzzo

      That was Missouri a week ago. I’m sorry it has moved east. But today it is a whopping 18 degrees, which feels almost like a heat wave in comparison to last week.

      • Ellie

        It’s 3 here, again, but by Thursday, we’re supposed to be 40! If true, I can guarantee there will be people out in shorts and flip flops.

      • Zippy W Pinhead

        We’ll be in the high seventies again today, closing in on eighty.

        • jesterpunk

          Lucky you, the high here is 14 and its supposed to go down to -1 tonight.

        • Msgr_MΩment

          Dead to me, you are.

        • Slamtundra

          The winters are worth the summers.

    • Granny Sprinkles

      I’ve got your number.

      • Zippy W Pinhead

        She must be freezing today…

    • Master Contrail Program

      It gets warmer at night there? What the hell am I looking at?

  • jesterpunk

    Trump likes getting paid for not doing any work.

    https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/643987188489699328

  • President in Exile Firefly

    Why can’t these people work for exposure bux?

  • Jeff Ackerman

    These are guidelines for discipline and or termination that normally apply to union agreements and any arbitration as a result of either discipline or termination.

    Seven Tests of Just Cause

    1. Reasonable Rule or Work Order. Is the rule or order reasonably related to the orderly, efficient, and safe operation of the business?

    2. Notice. Did the employee receive adequate notice of the work rule or performance standard and the possible consequences of failure to comply?

    3. Sufficient Investigation. Did you conduct an investigation before making a decision about taking disciplinary action?

    4. Fair Investigation. Was your investigation fair and objective?

    5. Proof. During your investigation, did you find proof of misconduct or of a performance discrepancy?

    6. Equal Treatment. Have you dealt with your employees equally, without discrimination?

    7. Appropriate Discipline. How do you decide what’s appropriate?

    • Spotts1701, Porg Wrangler

      The two lawyers that I usually deal with in arbitration always included that in their closing briefs. I swear I could recite it in my sleep. We always default back to what is also in our negotiated agreement – “the District and the Association agree that the principles of progressive discipline shall apply to any disciplinary action taken against a unit member. However, the District reserves the right to skip steps of the progressive discipline process based on the severity of the employee’s misconduct.”

  • Résistance Land Shark Ω

    Sec. 7. [§ 157.] Employees shall have the right to self-organization, to form, join, or assist labor organizations, to bargain collectively through representatives of their own choosing, and to engage in other concerted activities for the purpose of collective bargaining or other mutual aid or protection, and shall also have the right to refrain from any or all of such activities except to the extent that such right may be affected by an agreement requiring membership in a labor organization as a condition of employment as authorized in section 8(a)(3) [section 158(a)(3) of this title].

    National Labor Relations Act

    • jesterpunk

      Arnt they trying to kill that?

      • Résistance Land Shark Ω

        Yes … they have been for years.

        • Jeff Ackerman

          I don’t agree, unions are a convenient “evil” for the right wing, and a small “social safety valve” for the left. They like us to be small enough that we aren’t a threat, but big enough to use as a club against each other.

      • Spotts1701, Porg Wrangler

        Indeed. There’s a case pending involving “fair share” fees (several states require public employees who benefit from union representation but do not join the union to pay a fee for that benefit) that, if they side with the plaintiff will cripple public service unions where “free riders” are a serious problem.

    • OrG

      Laws don’t mean shit if they aren’t enforced.

    • Swampgas_Man

      Ever hear of this place called Wal-Mart?

  • BosGrl

    OT: Hey guys! 1 box of Jiffy Corn Muffin mix + 1 egg + 1/4 c. milk plus a waffle iron and a can of corn chowder = awesome lazy lunch for two.

    • Résistance Land Shark Ω

      and no canned clams.

      • BosGrl

        The best part.

    • Spotts1701, Porg Wrangler

      Oh yeah, love meals like that.

    • Carpe Vagenda

      Oooh. I got a griddle thing with waffle plates for Christmas, and I’m dying to try them out on Ivan Ramen’s scrapple breakfast waffles.

      I’ll bet corn waffles would make awesome hotdog rolls, in a fake corn dog without spleen pain kind of way.

      • BosGrl

        I’ve found that you can put just about anything in a waffle iron. Next up: brownie mix.

        • Doug Langley

          Have you been watching those infomercials again?

          • BosGrl

            :D no

    • commatoes

      I like the waffle iron idea. My favorite parts of the pancake are the lacy crisp edges.

    • Old town Urbandale

      Are you putting the corn chowder in the batter, or heating it up and using it in place of maple syrup on the finished product? (Sounds good either way.)

      • BosGrl

        Soup in a bowl with the waffles on the side, but I like your way!

  • calliecallie

    This is not really a garbage men post. This is a garbage employer post. Women can be garbage employers too, and frequently are.

    In any event, these bosses suck and should be made to feel the consequences of their actions. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/03e79c3b11e08c19b150441ca7b5f2a87e410496ccc4630d94fd04a8ddc468b2.jpg

    • Angela Ruzzo

      I remember my first female boss – it was 1981 – and I could tell right off that the reason she sucked as a boss was because she believed she could only be successful if she acted like a male boss. Women are rarely any good at that, and she was terrible at it. Ten years later I had a middle-aged lesbian boss, and she was probably the best boss I ever had. We are still friends, 25 years later. My second-best boss was a middle-aged gay man. I will let other people extrapolate from this, as I am off to take a nap.

      • jesterpunk

        The best bosses I have ever worked for was one in another country, my current boss who is a woman and my first technical job boss who was gay. The only one who is actually technical is my current boss and she will back us as long as we can justify why we did something even if someone complains. The other 2 where not technical all 3 believe in letting their employees do the jobs they where hired for and taking care of any problems that prevent them doing their job. They also trust their employees and dont micromanage them.

        • C4TWOMAN

          Trusting employees? Gasp, socialism! Next we’ll all be wearing the same badly fitting unfashionable overalls…

          • jesterpunk

            What about unfashionable pajama pants, Is that close enough?

          • puredog

            Grump. I suppose if we HAVE to wear pants. Grump.

          • Bigly smart jesterpunk

            Well its 14F outside and going down to -1 so you have to wear some kind of pants and pajama pants are comfortable.

          • SDGeoff3

            Pants, you say?

          • Nenatopia

            My boss once tried to give me some career mentor-y advice – “Dress for the job you want, not the job you have.” I told her that if I did that, I’d be coming to work in pajamas. She kinda gave up on the career advice after that.

    • Old town Urbandale

      Yep on the garbage employer thought. The HR department that was anything but “my partner in battling cancer” was all women.

      • Grumpy Twat

        TBH I have never known an HR dept that had a fucking clue about a fucking thing.
        God knows what they think their actual role is, but whenever I have had any dealings with them they are always witless.
        I don’t understand why I have, on so many occasions, had to explain to HR, and management, what they are supposed to do.

  • Angela Ruzzo

    I am supposed to be sewing today. But you know what? It’s 18 degrees outside, I’m retired, and I don’t feel like it, so I’m going to say “Fuck The Puritan Work Ethic” and take a nap. See you later.

    • jesterpunk

      Enjoy the nap.

    • Eileen Besse

      Hahahahahah! Yay you!

    • commatoes

      I hope this comment finds you awake and refreshed.

    • puredog

      Naps FTW!

    • Moar Wordz

      I napped big time after cooking, I was reading Wonkette and suddenly I dropped the Kindle with a thunk and was instantly asleep for hours -niiiiiice

      • Angela Ruzzo

        I noticed about 5 years ago that my occasional naps were getting longer. I used to automatically wake up after exactly 1 hour, but I am now up to 2 hours. I wonder if some internal clock is regulating naps, because I really do wake up after 2 hours almost to the minute.

        • Moar Wordz

          There is an internal clock.
          When I woke at at around 6:30 today, my Kindle or phone made this odd off tune jangling.
          I hadn’t set an alarm.
          Has my Kindle developed AI?

          • Angela Ruzzo

            Ooooh, strange …. [Theme from “Twilight Zone” playing in background]

  • jesterpunk

    Does he realize that if he does this he would also be sued?

    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/06/trump-camp-david-100-percent-proper-327118

    “I consider it a work of fiction,” Trump said, complaining about what he called the country’s weak libel laws.

    “Libel laws are very weak in this country,” he said. “If they were stronger, hopefully, you would not have something like that happen.”

    • Bub, the cynical zombie

      I was going to reply “it always surprises me when Trump understands something.” Then I realized the situation of him appearing to understand something has never arisen.

    • Bell the Blind Tiger MCD

      he does understand that he would have to prove his reputation was damaged, right? it doesn’t appear that it was. it appears that all his devotees are still devoted and everyone else is just further creeped out.

      • jesterpunk

        But it hurt his feelings.

        • Bell the Blind Tiger MCD

          he doesn’t have feelings.

          • Nockular cavity

            No, Trump has feelings.

            It’s the rest of us who have no feelings, because he’s a fucking sociopath.

          • Bell the Blind Tiger MCD

            if he does not acknowledge my feelings, I will not acknowledge his. it’s quite simple.

      • commatoes

        IIRC, the US libel laws are fairly clear and explicit. The fact that he does not meet the burden of proof does not make the law weak.

        Oh right.. Trump…

        Never mind.

    • Swampgas_Man

      I think I’ve heard of a workaround– don’t tell him!

      Wait til the book comes out in Britain, where libel laws are a LOT more tilted to the litigant, THEN sue his ass over there.

  • Eileen Besse

    OT, also, too: canned Hormel Turkey Chili with cheddar cheese slices and chunky salsa, mixed up and microwaved ’til all swirly, with tortilla chips to dip. MMMMMM!

    • thixotropic jerk

      just as long as it’s not velveeta

      • Eileen Besse

        Hahahahah–no, REAL cheddar cheese.

        • puredog

          Try it with cedar cheese. You’ll never go back.

  • Spotts1701, Porg Wrangler

    Kitchen is cleaned, I have 4 pairs of jeans and 6 pairs of dress slacks to take for donation, and I’ve filled about half a garbage bag with trash. I can’t clean the bathroom yet because the sink decided today was a good day to clog up, so I’m gonna tackle the dining nook next.

    • Like Really Smart Radio

      When you’re done, will you come over to my house and help me pack?

      • Spotts1701, Porg Wrangler

        Oh, packing I don’t do. I always put 50 pounds of books in a box because “They all fit”.

        • Like Really Smart Radio

          Samesies

        • Marion in Savannah

          Well, a book box generally will weigh 50 pounds, which is what a carton of 10 reams of paper weighs. (Used to be in the printing biz, and I’ve hefted thousands of cartons of paper.)

        • handyhippie65

          if i fits, i sits?

    • Bell the Blind Tiger MCD

      but…it’s not spring?

    • C4TWOMAN

      I was all raring to do this sorta thing, but got distracted by hitting the gym again, returning to my running routine, and suddenly making good time towards finishing a book, things also on the Todo list.
      Nice thing about long Todo lists is , assuming you’re getting most of those things accomplished, you don’t really feel bad about the rest….
      La la la…
      *In background pile of dishes in sink tilts precariously….*

    • handyhippie65

      gee whiz. i’m sitting in my pj’s, watching wayne’s world 2, and typing at the wonkette. you’re my hero. wanna come do some dishes for me? i would, but then i’d be someone else.

    • Zyxomma

      I did my banking and shopping early, heated up leftovers, and applied for a job I’d be good at. I also watched Zardoz, which holds up much better than most films from the 1970s.

    • theCryptofishist

      Pants are going! Bye-Bye, pants!

  • Bub, the cynical zombie

    I highly recommend this wonderful elixir to the Wonketariat! A sovereign remedy for any ailment! Never fails to give relief!

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e708b5445eb916f71a687d71193e3cb2cced67ae7d22b41567660051a78d7180.jpg

  • Bell the Blind Tiger MCD

    they both have cases.

    the guy clearly has a case under both the Family Leave Act and because he’s technically being discriminated byproxy for his wife having a baby and directly for using his family leave for a less stereotypically masculine behavior like taking care of his babby so it’s a form of discrimination based on sex two ways.

    the woman has a case of both Disparate Treatment–she’s a mom and she’s being discriminated for being a mom just by her boss threatening not to allow her to pump on her own breaks, typically he would be required not to count her pumping against her break time–and Disparate Impact–he’s paying his employees a wage which does not provide if you have children which would bar the door to women with children and is not related to a job requirement.

    • C4TWOMAN

      Preach!

    • NY state requires the employer set aside a room for pumping if an employee is a breastfeeding mother
      He’s violating state regulations

      • Bell the Blind Tiger MCD

        good.

      • h4rr4r

        NY State requires a medical room. It can be used for pumping, or any other medical need. Diabetes treatment for example.

        • Cool thanks bru, now I know

          • h4rr4r

            It actually is really cool, private rooms for medical needs is a big deal. Diabetics in most states if they need to inject at work are forced tondo so in the bathroom. I wouldn’t eat in a bathroom, I can’t imagine giving myself injections in one.

          • I was actually surprised to learn that NY had made rules for it when my wife started pumping, even though folks don’t seem to follow those rules. I wouldn’t want to spend thirty minutes in a public bathroom, it’s nasty as hell.

    • theCryptofishist

      I thought so. I just didn’t have the information to say anything.

    • Mormos

      sure, but does he have the time and money to fight the case with a child on the way? The law does not empower the people, it empowers the lawmakers.

      • Bell the Blind Tiger MCD

        as Robyn mentioned, his case is pretty cut and dry. it’s just annoying that he has to fight it at all. he could get away with going to HR and asking if they know they violated the Family Leave Act and the EEO Act by firing him.

        it’s the woman who would have a more difficult time and need to take on the cost of legal representation–which is clearly a strain for her given that she already needs WIC and can’t get a simple $75/mo raise.

  • Impatient

    My takeaway is that our business economy only operates because it is able to take advantage of mistreating people. And that we really can’t say that slavery is gone.

    Pardon me for restating the obvious basics, but Robyn’s post makes the characteristics of our general “free market” so clear and personal. Still, the glorious myth of capitalism will continue. Yay?

    • amrak63

      The Commies were capitalism’s unwitting best friends, since they turned socialism into an unholy mixture of terror and boredom, either blood red or dishwater gray.

  • JFC people are going to reddit for legal advice? The world is doomed

    • Master Contrail Program

      Well sure. Look who people turned to to make America great again.

      • Natalie Au Natural Hedonist

        The least qualified man for the job.

        • HooverVilles

          B-b-but he’s highly educated, has the best brain, has the best words, is a stable genius…
          Oh #&$_#><#, never mind.

      • Sakonyachen

        When you put it that way, Reddit looks like a fine place for legal advice in comparison.

  • Jo Mathie

    Ugh garbage man is the best description for this person. I have a lovely female boss (and very nice male and female co-workers) at the moment. I’ve also had two male bosses that tried to sexually assault me. The first i was too afraid to say anything about. The second I got banned from being recommended by job centers, which isn’t brilliant, but is something. I’m so done with men in power trying to control women’s choices.

  • handyhippie65

    i remember when the republicans in my state instituted so called, right to work laws. they said it would be a boon for workers. it turns out, it is really a right to fire for any reason, with no recourse law that has been a bane instead. whoda thunk it?

    • Travalanche

      As a “bonus” RTW also depresses wages, reduces worker protections, and increases the rate of on-the-job injuries (and fatalities) – the last one by almost 50%

      I spent a few months last year in MO working to repeal the RTW legislation that the republicans pushed through at the start of 2017; those stats are burned into my brain at this point

      • handyhippie65

        i live in indiana, the self proclaimed, most pro corporate state in the country. so much so, that there are lots of jobs, and no workers. in the 90’s, the trailer factories, and the rv industry ran help wanted, and move to indiana ads in texas newspapers. now they are crying about all of the illegals here. the stupid, it burns.

        • 🍁 Girl Guide Salute 🖖🏻

          Conservatives never got over that whole “no more slavery” thing.

          • You should ice that burn

            That’s why they’re still fighting the civil fucking war.

          • Mormos

            they never enacted the “no more slavery” thing either.

        • Sakonyachen

          Funny how “right to work” doesn’t really provide the labor they were expecting does it? It turns out that enough education has been imparted that even without schooling, no one will work twice as hard for half as much. So the idiots think that a wall will get rid of the Messicans, and then we will have to come work for them. I don’t think they understand how their own businesses work. If they have no migrant workers, we aren’t going to be willing to work for less, we will want more.

          • handyhippie65

            they weren’t paid to think, only to do the bidding of their corporate masters. too bad oppression isn’t as hard as thinking. we might have a chance.

          • Sakonyachen

            When the lowliest serf is smarter than the leader, oppression is hard to maintain.

          • handyhippie65

            judging by the words and actions of trump’s voters and supporters, i don’t think they are smarter than his dumpsterness. which, in and of it’s self, is a sad commentary on the state of our education system. it has been said, you can’t fix stupid. as someone who fixes things for a living, if something is so broken it cannot be fixed, you throw it away, and replace it. any notion how we throw them away?

          • Sakonyachen

            Build turnstiles in Trump’s wall with neon signs that say “Free Margaritas!!”

          • handyhippie65

            taco bowl tuesday!

          • Sakonyachen

            I love Latinos!

    • sarafina

      Anyone with a brain.

      • handyhippie65

        yea, well who needs a brainz when you have faith in your leaders? obviously not a majority of hoosiers. i gotta move.

        • amrak63

          “But da KKKonservativz let us be out and proud bigots, and isn’t that the most important thing?”–The Stupid White Folks of Real Amurka

    • Magnificent Mopery.

      Right to work also shit cans prevailing wage laws, so that right to work means right to work for less than a living wage in trades and occupations where unions had set the prevailing wage.

    • Moar Wordz

      Yeah, as an hourly employee, I dealt with that over & over

    • Sunhead

      In 1961, MLK.
      “In our glorious fight for civil rights, we must guard against being fooled by false slogans, such as ‘right-to-work.’ It provides no ‘rights’ and no ‘works.’ Its purpose is to destroy labor unions and the freedom of collective bargaining…. We demand this fraud be stopped.”
      http://www.thekingcenter.org/archive/document/draft-statement-vote-no-state-question-409-mlk

      • handyhippie65

        why is it only in hindsight can we truly see the genius of this man?

  • MOG253

    My sister was so excited about being pregnant, she told everyone in the office. They fired her an hour later, FL, a right to work state. #SHAME

    • h4rr4r

      Right to work does not supercede federal law. You can’t fire someone for being pregnant. That would be a wrongful termination suit slam dunk.

      • Strepsi

        many many women I know, on announcing pregnancy, experienced “restructuring” either before or during mat leave, and that’s here in Canada – I believe it happens all the time.

        • h4rr4r

          I am sure it does, sue the bastards.

          • Sakonyachen

            For real, the reason it happens all the time is because the women do not sue. I would sue on their behalf if I could.

            I called the local NAACP once because a coworker was let go over a false sexual harassment accusation. “He’s a big black dude and she’s a tiny white girl, so I had to let him go or I’d have a lawsuit”, was what the boss told me. He knew as well as I did she was trying to get with him and he shot her down, but he was too scared of a lawsuit to stick up for his employee. So I called the NAACP, and they explained that he had to call. I had never really dealt with them before so I had wondered if it was because I was white(still laugh at myself for how clueless I was), they explained that it was because I was not the guy in question, because they would like to hire me if I had the credentials. I then wondered how much would be accomplished if more black folks would call them for help. Obviously the Republicans would just defund them because they are a bureaucratic drain on JOOOOB CREATOOOORS! But not before they struck some nasty blows at discrimination. Pregnant women can’t be defunded since there is no organization for that, certain lawyers just love to take cases with a pregnant woman. I wonder if the GOP would outlaw pregnancy if the ladies started suing en masse.

      • MOG253

        When I checked, I was told that because they had fewer than 15 employees, the law didn’t apply. 1989, if that makes any difference.

  • puredog

    Are “mad at a woman for wearing leggings” and “mad at a woman for not taking off leggings” distinct concepts?

    • theCryptofishist

      They are both “mad at a woman” because reasons, so no.

  • Bitter Scribe

    I don’t live in NY, but if a woman like the one in that post sued her boss and I got on the jury, I would vote to hang the boss from the nearest lamppost and to hell with what the law says.

  • azeyote

    it takes a certain kind of cretin that will fire someone for getting assistance, which will make them have to get assistance

    • 🍁 Girl Guide Salute 🖖🏻

      Even worse, those cretins probably vote Republican so that the assistance programs will get cut or abolished altogether. For all the chattering that the conspiracy theorists do about the “depopulation agenda” supposedly being a thing of “liberal globalists,” it’s the Republicans who want that. Mitch McConnell isn’t the only one who can’t get an erection unless he kills a poor person.

  • sarafina

    The first example is especially egregious considering WalMart and other large employers encourage employees to use public welfare programs. (including the U.S. Military and food stamps)

    • tehbaddr

      Well, it completely crosses the line between private life and work life, even if she was wearing an easily recognized uniform off the job, as one might do when getting groceries on their way home from the salt mines!

  • Anne Of Green Bagels

    what a fucking asshole. the seventy-five bucks probably cut into his coke habit the way he sounds.

    and 75 bucks won’t buy a whole lot of formula either.

    • H0mer0

      He sounds like a Jen Sorensen comic strip character or the dog with the top hat in Ruben Bolling’s Lucky Ducky strip

  • I had a situation like this once. Preggo with my second, my husbands work layed him off with two weeks to go in the middle of the busy season. As soon as the kids was born they brought him back. Mind we had moved states for that job. I think they were trying to get out from under the insurance but it did not work cause son was born within the same month. If he had been late a week….

  • SDGeoff3

    I lost a position of ten years when a new boss came in and treated the entire staff like shit. One by one, everyone quit or was fired until I was the only original one left. One day, I got a text asking me to come in for a talk. I was on my way to oral surgery and told him tomorrow would work just fine. One thing led to another and I went in several hours later and was told they were making some changes, and that I didn’t appear to be happy working there. So it was curtains. Ten years wasted.

  • 🍁 Girl Guide Salute 🖖🏻

    ‘Member when the Canuckistanis tried to make ending these garbage at-will employment and right-to-work laws a condition of NAFTA, and Trump’s really great business people shit themselves because Canada was trying to take over God’s country with evil maple communism? They should have given JT and his team a Nobel Peace Prize just for that. Funny thing is, business actually likes universal healthcare because it takes the burden off them having to provide healthcare for employees and (gasp) distributes it evenly among the populace. American business wants their cake and eat it too, and not the cake we like. They don’t want to pay for employees to have healthcare, but they don’t want programs like Medicaid to exist either, which is why they vote Republican. In short, they just don’t think expendable labor should have any human rights at all. #ThanksReagan

    • amrak63

      Also,”thanks” to Reagan’s campaign for cutting that deal to keep the hostages until after the 1980 election.
      Thanks GOP traitors!

      • mailman27

        Literally.

    • theCryptofishist

      Obviously, we should be serfs. We should belong to a company or to a city lot, and really only get enough to eat and cloth ourselves. And maybe build a hovel. Hey, at least Haitians will finally have people in the western hemisphere to look down on.

      • Zombishroom

        Dammit. I wish that wasn’t true.

        • theCryptofishist

          Me too.

      • Sakonyachen

        Finally, the Haitians get a break. Oh wait, no they don’t.

    • Mormos

      you nailed it, we are expendable.

  • Swampgas_Man

    Would like to point out here that in many states, if I remember rightly, the Gai is not a protected class. Definitely not Federally protected. I KNOW I’ve been shitcanned at least once for being visibly LGBT.

    • theCryptofishist

      What a load of crap. (I’m sure that’s not news.) And there I am wondering how out of line I am for thinking that a guy at my local gross out might be “campy.” Because, I don’t even want to ask about his sexuality, but my gaydar is pinging. Which is a fairly useless non-comment, because I went right into my own life, because I don’t know what else to say.
      Well, I can say, I can’t think of a job in which being LGBTetc. would actually be a disadvantage. Especially, in comparison to being a swollen headed ass straight guy who’s completely inflexible because he’s never had to flex.

      • Zombishroom

        Love your use of GLBTetc. It encompasses so much more than just the boring LGBTQ. there’s such a beautiful spectrum of gender and sexual expression that we need etc.

        • theCryptofishist

          Well, it’s partly because I fit in there somewhere, as the wife of a bi man. But not in the usual slots.

  • Swampgas_Man

    Meanwhile have not had a day off since Christmas, two employees out of four quit (well, one quit, the other just quietly disappeared after sabotaging our equipment slightly), and I’m about to go mental. My boss doesn’t DARE fire me!

    • Zyxomma

      Sorry that’s happened to you.

    • tehbaddr

      “My boss doesn’t DARE fire me!” Don’t be so sure!

      • Grokenstein

        Life Shit finds a way.

  • btwbfdimho

    Her boss is probably the Genius-in-Chief.

  • tehbaddr

    “At-will employment”, “Right to Work state”, these are examples of the double speak oligarchs have instilled in employment laws in order to fire anyone for any reason at anytime!. Fuck them all!

    • theCryptofishist

      Tell ’em, tehbaddr!

  • Transgender Fetus McGoo

    I know too many people who have been abused by their boss. And I mean physically slapped around, like in a cartoon. Not just in kitchens, either, in like… software. America’s fucking nuts.

    • Strepsi

      your screen name is cute )

    • Moar Wordz

      I was, once. Never again.

    • As a professional, I had a boss who threatened to turn me into the licensing board. As soon as she made the threat in the “meeting,” without saying a word, I went to the phone (pre-cell days), dialed the licensing board (the number was on a business card), and handed her the phone.

      Eventually, I turned her into the state licensing board and got her fired. That felt good.

  • mailman27

    Union.

  • Just saying

    We could so choose. But her emails.

  • MC Planck

    When I accepted my job offer here in Australia, my boss was careful to explain that for first six months I was on probation, and they could let me go or I could quit for any reason, no questions asked. He wanted to make sure I was OK with that.

    I looked at him and said, “Dude, you just described my entire professional career in the USA.”

    The absence of fear – economic, physical, political – is a huge benefit of living here. Certainly worth the 48% top marginal tax rate.

    • persistently_resistant_gayby

      Same.

      When I recently started my new role in Australia – my batchmates and I were repeatedly reminded, that HR could not fire me at-will, conditional upon passing probationary period.

      For me, it starkly contrasts with my dad’s employment in Qatar. He worked for 32 fucking years until March 2016, where his employer just fired him unceremoniously in front of his colleagues. He was simply given six months to leave the country, and his severance package was held up for more than a year and a half. It is a reminder that workers rights are far far more advanced in Australia, and it also stands to reason why one should continue to give Unions support.

    • Old Man Yells at Cloud

      That’s a tough choice: Live in the US where your boss out to screw you or in Australia where every plant and animal is out to kill you, but your job is safe :)

      • MC Planck

        You’re supposed to give a month’s notice. I don’t know what happens if you don’t, It might just be a politeness thing; that still has the force of law here.

        • Sunhead

          In practise it’s one pay cycle.
          You give notice to quit. The employer then makes the decision to pay you out or keep you on.
          If you just walk out after giving notice, they will stop your pay and you will have to wait for your final payroll. Not really any penalty. Mostly it damages your relationship with them so you can’t use them as a referee.

          • MC Planck

            See, I knew it was something like that.

            Some days I come home and start to bitch about my job, because you know every job has its issue. But then I stop and remember I’m not working in the USA, and suddenly its issues seem a lot more tolerable.

    • stablegeniusahughes798

      But you also have to live with two varieties of HUGE house spiders, one of whom is very venomous? Huntsman(harmless but huge)and White-tails(Bad. Very Bad. And also huge.)

      • MC Planck

        The spider problem is vastly over-rated. Regular army patrols keep them in check.

  • WIDTAP

    What? You just figured out that most employers are assholes who don’t give a shit if you can feed your kids or not? Welcome to the real world that most of us live in, young-un.

    Just wait to you get to an age when you are not as young and pretty as the college grad who will replace you, because your boss is a 30-something that hasn’t had a project blow up yet to know they need someone who has been through it all six times before to save their bacon. That’s the same guy who finds being mentored an insult to his dignity.

    It’s a real joy working for others, which is why you always need to be prepared to take another job or work for your own company.

    • I think the young woman in the first anecdote was an hourly employee working. She probably doesn’t have the option of forming her own company. It’s difficult to work your way out of poverty — qualifying for WIC is poverty in my estimation if not by formal definition.

      • Sakonyachen

        Since poverty is still based on three times what it costs to feed the memebers of your household, I would assume that qualifying for any form of food assistance is poverty.

        Considering the requirements to use local utility companies, a need for some form of internet for applications and for children’s schoolwork, and the fact that insurance and gas for a car that is usually more of a need than a requirement since we have shit for public transportation, it’s disturbing that they expect people to survive on three times what ”food” costs.

    • kareemachan

      #notallemployers

      I’ve had wonderful ones. I’ve also had shitty ones.

      One of my better ones accommodated my need for certain work hours as I was dealing with a mother with dementia and father with severe clinical depression. I will always esteem them for that.

      One of the less better ones fired me for getting hurt on the job (not my fault, btw). They had to fly me back to a hospital to see how severe my concussion was, and that was JUST unacceptable.

  • Magnificent Mopery.

    Great column, Robyn, and infuriating.

  • Old town Urbandale

    When I was diagnosed with cancer four years ago, I planned to stay at the American Cancer Society’s Hope Lodge the five weeks that I’d undergo radiation, as the facility was nearly two hours away. Since the treatment would only take a half hour each day, I asked to continue working full time by telecommuting. My employer had a fit. *Their* plan was to have me burn through five weeks of FMLA so they could whack me sooner, should I not be able to return to work. So I refused to sign the FMLA paperwork, and drove every day for radiation. I went in an hour early, worked late an hour, and took two hours vacation each day. I refused to sign the FMLA paperwork when it was time for surgery, even though they “reminded” me that without FMLA, they couldn’t guarantee they’d hold my job. I told ’em if they thought the company had a morale problem now, wait until word got around that they fired someone with 19 years at the company while he was out recovering from cancer surgery. On the bright side, it helped me decide that retiring early was the right thing to do.

    • kareemachan

      I hope your cancer was beaten….

  • Sunhead

    I recall a conversation a friend had after a US company bought out the Australian IT company he worked for. They were going to lay off some people, because new owners always cut staff, yada yada. Someone mentioned redundancy payments…
    “As a matter of policy the company does not make redundancy payments.”
    “As a matter of Law in Australia you have to make redundancy payments.”
    apparently they were speechless.
    Right to Work is a lie. Even in Dr Kings times, he knew it was a lie.

    • Stulexington

      But we’re an American company, that means we get to follow American labour laws … right?

      • That’s part of American Exceptionalism: (a) What ever America is doing it is exceptional because America is exceptional, (b) American law always supersedes all other laws in all other jurisdictions, and (c) that’s why the Brits lost the Revolution and the War of 1812. So, yeah, we’ll do it the American way.

    • kareemachan

      A friend works for a company that was bought out by a corporation. They immediately laid off half of the design team and then were *completely* surprised when their sales tanked. Now they are paying our friend much more (it’s called being in the catbird’s seat) to work from home and fly down to CA 2-3 times a month. They should have kept the employees, but they obviously knew best….

  • ginmar

    And people wonder why I loved the Army. I was 27, and it was the first time I’d had so many men treating me like an equal, like a human being. When I got off active duty, I was attacked on my way to work. I called my boss to let her know I couldn’t work that shift—-I’d had teeth knocked out, I was covered with cuts and bruises, I could barely see. She said, “Well, no wonder you got mugged.”

    • kareemachan

      WTF? :-(

  • This is exactly why everyone needs to be a contract employee or temp. It saves the company money and no one has to worry about pesky lawsuits and EEOC complaints. It’s win-win, right? I’m sure the Repubes in Congress will fix this hole in the economy soon. I’m surprised that Scott Walker hasn’t already done it in Wisconsin. He obviously isn’t conservative enough. He should be primaried!

  • phoenix00

    Somebody doesn’t know how to put their money where their mouth is….

  • HooverVilles

    Where I worked management sent around statement that everyone had to sign as a condition of employment. Funny thing about this document everyone had to sign as a condition of employment

    • The last tech company i consulted for made everyone sign an updated Ethics agreement that included a weird statement that employees were prohibited from buying sex.

      Then i read recently there’s a criminal investigation of Seattle tech bros who like paying for ho’s FROM THEIR WORK COMPUTERS.
      https://media.giphy.com/media/lT4sgCJwC7B4c/giphy.gif

      • HooverVilles

        WHOA!!!!
        Some people are, umm, umm, oh I don’t know.
        I. Can’t. Even.
        That’s got to be the craziest work story I have heard now.

      • kareemachan

        I miss Benny….

        :-(

      • stablegeniusahughes798

        I still think “Yakety Sax” should be Trump’s Hail to the Chief.

        • anomie

          YES!!!

          And that’s all I’ll think from now on when I see him getting off a plane (looking for the giant Beast car and missing it), walking across WH lawn, walking onstage at ridiculous rallies, etc.

        • little miss high and mighty

          Boots Randoph liblez

          • stablegeniusahughes798

            I know, but it’s so appropriate!
            My mother had all of Boots Randolph’s records, I think. When she died and we were getting rid of the stuff we didn’t want, we took a lot of Boots Randolph’s records to the local animal charity thrift store, along with the rest of her stuff.

          • little miss high and mighty

            Boots could blow! and he opened the door for a great many wind payers in Nashville and beyond.
            I cannot say “Yackity” is good for much besides novelty partyspark but compared to today’s (non) instrumentalists- at least yu could tell he spent time in a practice room.

    • Cucker “Dick” Tarlson

      I found the same thing at a previous employer (*cough*Macy’s*cough*) that also included the stipulation that should an employee file a claim against the company for any reason, they agreed to waive the right to use and instead use binding arbitration to settle disputes.

  • Mormos

    man or woman, anyone mad at women for wearing leggings is just a jealous bitch.

  • Mormos

    middle management is the dumping ground for every petty, small-minded sociopath on the planet.

    • middle management is the dumping ground for every petty, small-minded sociopath on the planet.

      Agreed. Peter Principle, mainly. *

      Petty, spineless dictators who cave to anyone with more power than them.

      * = No Jazz musician starts out to play Smooth Jazz.

    • Sakonyachen

      Is that why I hated it so much? I mean, I’m a total jackass, but I do care if people can eat or not.

  • It is time to stop treating “job creators” like delicate flowers who will fall apart if we expect them to treat and pay their employees decently and fairly. It is time to be on the side of the workers again.

    But, but, but…
    https://i.imgflip.com/229eaa.jpg

  • James Baskin

    Business has had several hundred years to show that they don’t need to be regulated. Every single fucking day, they prove otherwise.

  • Sakonyachen

    But, but, but, but… Supply Side Jesus!

  • diane surette

    That’s Fucked up

  • reelreeler

    “It is time to stop treating “job creators” like delicate flowers who will fall apart if we expect them to treat and pay their employees decently and fairly. It is time to be on the side of the workers again.” ……yep.

  • FZsdaughter

    Well many people say to me, “you’re so lucky you live in Canada!” — as if it’s some kind of moose-based magic that makes it great. It’s UNIONS. It’s governmental protections for workers, and living wages mandated by law. There is no magic, people. Organize and protest, or you’ll end up literally serfs by the time these Republicans get through with you!

    • pstokk

      Seconded, with reference to Swedish and generally Western European history. Unions, and the governmental protections that unions have extracted politically through their political party. No other way. The US was actually on the same trend, but racism, not least, and probably most, got in the way.

    • MC Planck

      Ya can’t fool me. It’s the moose magic! :D

    • Khaleesisdoormat

      Those things are important in very large cities, where the benefits are most helpful. However, in large parts of Canada (NFLD, the Maritimes) where unemployment is very high, those policies haven’t resulted in much of a jobs-growth stimulus.

  • Cucker “Dick” Tarlson

    We’ve gone from demanding fair pay and safe working conditions to groveling for whatever scraps the financially struggling “Job Creators” can possibly spare us without going bankrupt in a little over 80 YEARS.

    I recently had a discussion with someone who was angry about the minimum wage increase because it would cause price increases — like, 20 dollars for a Big Mac. I responded by saying that if you couldn’t afford to pay your employees a decent wage that would encourage them to work with you, and if you still charged 20 bucks for a sammich, your business plan sucks and you shouldn’t be in business in the first place.

    And another guy (with a wife and a kid) bitched about how higher wages didn’t encourage people to work harder and get better jobs, I noticed that on his profile he was training to be an EMT-b. So I asked him:

    Why do you think it’s okay that you spend 200 hours and 800 bucks (plus the cost of uniforms and books) to earn fifteen bucks an hour helping save lives, when someone else makes more than half of what you do stocking Wal-Mart’s shelves with Cheerios? And if you spend the 6 grand and more hundreds of hours training to move up with a paramedic certificate you bump up to an average starting rate of JUST 17 BUCKS AN HOUR TO BE THE FIRST RESPONDER TO A MEDICAL EMERGENCY? Are Wal-Mart employess overpaid, or are you seriously underpaid? Doesn’t that bother you? Do you think that lower wages drive an economy when they continually fall behind the cost of living?

    *crickets*

    • Teecha

      A thing that right wingers fail to understand is that lack of jobs is not the cause of poverty. Lack of money is what makes people poor. Most poor people have jobs. The jobs pay so little that they have to rely on social security. Which actually means that taxes subsidise businesses so that the don’t need to pay decent, living wages.

      • Cucker “Dick” Tarlson

        Right.

        Living wages results in increased consumer spending.

        Increased consumer spending reults in increased sales.

        Increased sales creates greater demand.

        Greater demand results in increased production.

        Increased production results in demand for employees.

        Demand for employees results in competitive wages.

        It used to work a bit like this. We’ve turned that upside down.

        • Teecha

          Trickle up economics.

        • Outzie

          Not to beat the issue too hard, but I think it’d be more consistent with our general understanding of economics to say “Increased sales creates greater profit/Greater profit results in greater investment and employment/These result in greater demand for employees.” It’s less direct, but misattributing the creation of demand is part of what allows the far right its nutty theories — like “supply creates demand” (Rick Perry uses this false simplification).

      • Sunhead

        The jobs pay so little that they have to rely on social security

        So much this.
        Just so you know.
        Airline pilots starting out, already with a commercial pilot’s license and the ratings for the aircraft they are flying, qualify to get food stamps they are paid so poorly. Airline Pilots.

        Just to highlight it for you…
        In the USA you are beholden to your employer for your healthcare. Sure Obamacare changes that, but not much really. So, in order to afford healthcare, which is vastly more expensive in the USA than elsewhere in the 1st world, you take jobs that do not pay a living wage, because you need the healthcare coverage.
        You are being institutionally blackmailed into working for slave wages.
        I know you guys ‘know’ it, but that is the unvarnished truth of your situation. It’s why the rest of the world struggles to understand why people would do professional educated work for below poverty wages.

    • Grumpy Twat
    • javadavis

      Job market is such that those people stocking shelves with Cheerios have surprisingly good odds of being BS holders. Admittedly, the odds are higher for cashiers, but that is also where the stores put the people with Masters degrees.

  • kareemachan

    I 99% agree with this. I have worked for many different employers, been in 4 different unions (3 great, 1 mediocre), and while for the vast majority of the time, I like what I see with unionized jobs, I have seen three instances where an inexperienced or truly dangerous to other people in the workplace person keeps their job when they really shouldn’t. (One for person drunk/stoned/whatever on the job in an industrial setting, two for sexual harassment) There needs to be recourse for situations like this, and some unions take protecting their members too far (see: police unions where cops shoot unarmed people).

    These situations, though, are beyond disgusting.

    Another anecdote: A different friend works with computers for a state agency. The repugs in the state decided that they didn’t need to belong to a union, and made it so. It took a basic shut-down of the department and the superb work of the dems in the state congress to make it not so. The things the repugs wanted to do after disunionizing his department were scary – and truly threatening to the state’s security. But…. UNIONZ!!!1!

    • mailman27

      I was a shop steward for a couple of years in my union, and it was my experience that if management did their effin jobs and built an air-tight case, they could get rid of truly terrible employees. That seldom happened because management couldn’t be arsed to do it right.

      • Grumpy Twat

        Yes, a thousand times!
        That mirrors my experience 100%.

  • Many employers, given the desperation among working folk consider any employee, however skilled, utterly disposable and replaceable. When any kind of decent job posting will get thousands of applicants in 48 hours…. it gives employers a great deal of what I call “unearned leverage” and they USE it.

    it IS bullshit, and it sucks, and it’s the circumstances of what more than half of American Workers labor under. I’ve had toxic bosses. One memorable one tended to harass the female freelancers in my Art Dept. I essentially banned him from talking to anyone but ME if he needed anything from the department. nearly got fired for “insubordination” for that one. But when he fired the woman I trained to replace me as Art Director behind my back – because he felt threatened by her expertise and competence – I walked on the spot.

    But that was in the 80s…. in design and publishing now, if you leave or lose a senior position, you’re essentially ejected from the industry, things are so tight. Unearned leverage. Enjoy driving a school bus.

  • John Cracker

    And in the week of Cunts: Jaqueline Kent Cook, Rebecca Corry and the Huffington Post

  • little miss high and mighty

    Topic needs repeated postings, Robyn
    Super reporting here.
    Thanky.

  • Marilyn

    G-o-ogle is p-a-ying $97 per hour,w-i-th we-e-kly payouts.Y-o-u can a-l-so avail this.
    O-n tuesday I got a brand new Land R-o-ver Range Rover from having earned $11752 this last four weeks..with-o-u-t any doubt it’s the most-com-f-ortable job I have ever done .. It s-o-unds unbelievable but you w-o-nt forgive yourself if you don’t check it
    !gx273d:
    ♥G♥O♥Y♥J♥F♥L♥R♥D♥F♥L♥X♥Y♥N♥P♥B♥O♥T♥Q♥D♥U♥H♥R♥Z♥E♥P♥M♥U♥M♥N♥Q♥T♥X
    >>>> http://GoogleOnlineUniversalEasyTechJobsOpportunities/easy/jobs ♥G♥O♥Y♥J♥F♥L♥R♥D♥F♥L♥X♥Y♥N♥P♥B♥O♥T♥Q♥D♥U♥H♥R♥Z♥E♥P♥M♥U♥M♥N♥Q♥T♥X:::::!gx273lh

  • wavicles

    Thank you Robyn.

  • Oblios_Cap

    I’m in total agreement. Americans tend to forget the only reason the normal full-time workday is only 8 hours long and 5 days a week is because people fought and died to make it that way. I just read that Austria (I think) just rolled back labor laws to allow 12 hour days.

  • Katamount

    We’re already getting Tim Hortons franchisees (that franchisee being late co-founder Tim Horton’s own daughter) publicly announcing benefit cuts after Ontario implemented a minimum wage increase, so… yeah, Canada’s got its share of shit bosses too.

    https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/tim-hortons-calls-franchisees-cuts-to-paid-breaks-and-benefits-reckless-1.3747517

  • mardam422

    Bosses are, by and large, good people. But some are just nothing but garbage. NOTHING….BUT…GARBAGE.
    Welcome to the new America.

  • MissNomer

    Sounds to me like discrimination. Men do not normally pump breast milk or buy formula.

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