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Now that the Supreme Court has heard arguments in Masterpiece Cakeshop, Ltd. v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission (the one with the Christian guy who doesn’t want to bake cakes for gay weddings), it seems like everything old is new again. It’s sort of like one of those episodes of the Golden Girls that was 90% flashbacks and 10% eating cheesecake, except it’s not funny, no one learns any lessons, the cheesecake is made of rat poison, and all the Golden Girls have been secretly replaced with Billy Graham.

What I mean to say is, there are a heck of a lot of wingnuts out there right now ready to sell us a lot of shit we’ve all seen before as a brand new episode. They’re cool now, you guys! They totally don’t hate gay people. They just really love freedom. And strawman arguments.

This has been going on for quite some time now — probably since the later seasons of the original Will & Grace — but it seems that some of the people writing their bigot bakery hot takes think this is the first time we are hearing any of it, and are sure they are about to blow our very minds with their totally non-bigoted explanations for why a Christian baker should not have to bake a cake for a gay wedding, all of which are conveniently not based in any kind of reality.

Over on Law & Crime, in a post titled “Despite What the Left Says, Masterpiece Cakeshop is About Much More than Gay Discrimination,” columnist Ronn Blitzer (how is that not a gay porn name?) argues that this issue has nothing to do with the gays and everything to do with freedom of expression.

If you read this morning’s column by my colleague Elura Nanos and nothing else, you might think that Phillips is a horrible bigot who refuses to sell any of his baked goods to gay people. You might also think that there’s no reason why this case should have gotten to the Supreme Court in the first place, because obviously religious people are evil and it’s impossible to hold good faith beliefs that aren’t a guise for expressing hatred.

Of course, none of this is true.

Well, some of it is. Jack Phillips is, indeed, a bigot. If he were not a bigot, this particular Supreme Court case would not even be happening, because he would have just made the damn cake like he would have for any other couple looking to get married. The fact that he is a bigot, however, actually doesn’t matter. He can be a bigot in his heart all he likes, the problem is that he acted on it. If he were to make the cake, while really hating gay people, not only am I sure Jesus would forgive him, but he would not be in this mess to begin with.

It is not, however, true that anyone is going around saying “obviously religious people are evil.” I happen to know some religious people who are very nice. I also happen to know some religious people who have literally zero problem with gay people getting married. Heck, I even know some gay religious people!

It is also very much not true that we think that Jack Phillips is refusing to sell gay people baked goods across the board. No one thinks that or is even saying it! Surprise, we still think the thing he actually is doing is very wrong and illegal.

It is, however, very true that religious beliefs have been used to justify:

  • slavery
  • women not being allowed to vote
  • Jim Crow laws
  • laws prohibiting interracial marriages
  • schools that want to ban students from interracial dating.

To name a couple!

Blitzer, of course, tries to zing us with what this is all really about — the government telling businesses what they can do. Which, by the way, they absolutely can. Like, we have labor laws and anti-discrimination laws and regulations (for now, anyway) and all kinds of ways the government can tell businesses what to do.

If a customer walked into Masterpiece Cakeshop and wanted a cake with Jake Phillips’ face on it, with text that says “Jake Phillips is the Worst,” should he be forced to do that? No, of course not. The current case isn’t much different, except it involves sensitive issues of gay discrimination and religious beliefs.

It is, actually, very different. If Phillips would sell that very face cake to one customer, have it on the menu, and then refuse to sell one to another customer because of who that customer is, that would also be discrimination.

Those on the right can argue that it’s not discrimination because Phillips would have sold the same gay couple something else. Those on the left can argue that it’s not religious discrimination because no one is telling Phillips to marry another man. What remains is whether a business should have the freedom to decide what kind of work they want to do, regardless of who the customer is. Should a cheese shop have to provide non-dairy alternatives if a lactose-intolerant customer asks? Should a butcher have to sell tofu?

This would be a really poignant argument if the issue was that the gay couple wanted a cake made entirely out of SPAM, and Phillips, as a baker, did not sell SPAM cakes. A gay wedding cake and a straight wedding cake are not different products. They are literally the same product, and the only difference is that they will be eaten at a wedding where gay people are getting married. Ta-da!

Over on The Federalist, aka Land of The Hottest Takes, columnist Jeremiah Keegan argues in “Why The Cake-Baking Cases Are Really About Courts Deciding What Americans Can Believe” that if this case is not decided in Phillips’s favor it will totally outlaw all the Abrahamic religions. And also feelings. Because this, he believes, is all about feelings.

Keegan starts out by talking about how very, very nice all the bigot bakers were to the gays right up until they were asked to bake a cake for their wedding and refused, as if this is proof of something:

Each case involved a hardworking and courteous entrepreneur who was more than happy to serve people who identify as gay, but refused to design any part of a same-sex wedding. In some instances, it is almost stunning to hear that the defendant was found guilty of discriminating against the plaintiff on account of his sexual orientation.

This is not actually about anyone’s personal feelings towards gay people. It is not about whether or not they are “nice.” It is not even about whether they, in their heart of hearts, are bigots. It is about public accommodation, end of story.

However, because Keegan seems to believe that we are legislating feelings and not actions here, he is quite sure that what all of this will lead to is it being illegal to “publicly disfavor” gay people. Quelle horreur!

If this should happen, it will not simply unjustly eject hundreds, perhaps thousands, of Catholics, Muslims, Orthodox Jews, and devout Protestants from any wedding-related businesses they have built. It will set a precedent from our highest court that it is discrimination on account of sexual orientation to publically disfavor (sic) any kind of activity that practicing homosexuals “exclusively or predominately” engage in. Given that all the Abrahamic faiths proscribe homosexual action, the decision to come out next year may truly be “religious freedom’s Roe v Wade.”

One thing that both Keegan and Blitzer may want to take into account here, if only to comfort themselves, is that people are still very much allowed to think women shouldn’t vote, or think black people are the worst, or really feel like they would prefer it if interracial marriages never happened. Those beliefs can even be part of their religion, and often are!

Take a look around you, fellas! Look at all the gross Nazis, carrying tiki torches, whining about white genocide online and only ever being arrested when they kill or assault someone or otherwise break the law. You can do all the public disfavoring you want, and you will actually only get in trouble if you put that public disfavoring into action and break the law. It is actually very, very simple and not hard.

It’s not about your feelings, it is not about whether you are nice, it’s not about requiring businesses to sell things they don’t sell to begin with, it’s not about your religion or your beliefs. Hell, to some degree, it’s almost not really even about LGBT rights. It’s about the fact that regardless of what you personally believe in your heart, you still have to act in accordance with the law.

Hopefully, hopefully, the Supreme Court will see it that way too.

[Law and Crime | The Federalist]

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  • msanthropesmr

    A gay wedding cake and a straight wedding cake are not different products

    I would expect a gay wedding cake to contain at least 10% more fabulousness than a straight cake. And possibly more glitter.

  • ManchuCandidate

    They might think this hot take is the bag of chemicals known as Wonderbread, but it is moldy and stale and well past its sell by date like most of their hot takes.

  • Bill D. Burger
  • Bill D. Burger
  • exinkwretch

    Biz 101: It’s market share, people! If you refuse sell to everyone that offends/pisses you off, you’re very quickly an ex-biz person and you’re reduced to whoring yourself to the wingnut welfare circuit for a living.

  • Scooby

    I’ve come to the conclusion that a majority of the religious are terrible people. I used to think the Buddhists were OK, but now I am even questioning that.

    • LeighBowery’sLuxuryComedy

      Yeah, the situation in Myanmar has put that belief to pasture as well.

      And you know, I keep thinking about Right Livelihood here – if the baker’s job offends thee, how bout you be all personally responsible and go find a job that doesn’t, instead of expecting the gummint to accommodate you?

    • The Rain in Spain’s Therapist

      An old friend from school who is a Buddhist (And a Yoga instructor!) voted Republicans straight down the line after Bernie Sanders lost the primary.

      • Scooby

        That sounds like spite

        • Gayer Than Thou

          Well, Spite is actually the world’s most dominant religious belief. Even I practice it sometimes, and I’m an atheist.

          • Scooby

            Yea, but don’t you find it deeply unsatisfying?

    • janecita

      They are most definitely also terrible. Look at Myanmar.

    • Cousin Itt un Mondialiste

      Personally, I like humanists and pagans. Yet, all constructed systems fail my smell test.

      I prefer to go with the Carl Sagans of the world.

  • Nounverb911
  • beatbort

    Cruller unusual punishment is OK in this case.

  • Michael R
    • Bill D. Burger

      ‘Chia Christ’ on a cake! A W E S O M E

      • rocktonsam

        White face yet, curly brown hair… Make the cake. Put the two little grooms on it and take their check just like a good God fearin capitalist. Give the came grooms guns if that will make you feel better. The court has other crazy more important shit to deal with.

    • Bill D. Burger
      • Gayer Than Thou

        This one is the winner, because it is a bad copy of a bad copy.

  • schmannity

    Also too, those health inspections are a government overreach to cram gay sanitation norms down the throats of oppressed Christians.

  • Thiazin Red

    Well according to his questioning, Kennedy looks pretty certain to side with the bigots.

    • Ali | A Grumpy Cat

      Which is TERRIBLY frustrating given his previous rulings on gay rights.

      • Gayer Than Thou

        The thing is, he has consistently declined to articulate the legal standard for gay rights claims – he’s reached the right result, but dodged the question of the applicable legal standard (Scalia, sadly, was right about this). That’s made the whole body of case law on gay rights a little bit too squishy for my comfort.

  • LeighBowery’sLuxuryComedy

    Granted I haven’t read it in several decades, but as I last recall that ‘good book’ of theirs also contained some pretty stringent rules about dealing with menstruating women, as well as a bunch of reasonable-for-desert-dwelling-nomads-two-thousand-years-ago dietary rules – yet I suspect this bakery isn’t also following *those*. Which means he’s being wilfully selective about which parts of the bible he chooses to follow; to my mind, that rather negates his whole argument.

    • onedollarjuana

      something something shellfish something something kill your kids if they talk back …

  • Ali | A Grumpy Cat

    Should a cheese shop have to provide
    non-dairy alternatives if a lactose-intolerant customer asks? Should a
    butcher have to sell tofu?

    No, dipshit, just like a liquor store can’t be forced to carry a particular brand of vodka. Or for that matter, vodka at all. They could be the All Tequila Store and as long as all customers are treated the same, the government can’t do shit about it.

    And I’m so tired of the “just go somewhere else” argument. If Kennedy fucks us over and discrimination is legalized, I can totally see PoC and gays not being able to get ESSENTIAL SERVICES in large areas of the south unless they travel for miles. You can’t just “go somewhere else” if everyone in a fifty mile radius refuses to serve gays or anyone with brown skin.

    • onedollarjuana

      OTOH, wouldn’t it also be the case that someone wearing a cross could go somewhere else to get their antibiotics? I mean, all that belief in a sky-daddy makes me feel icky.

    • Gayer Than Thou

      100% agree. Lots of gay people live in places where there aren’t a lot of cake shops. Lots of gay people live in places where if the cake shops can discrimination so will other merchants and professionals. Lots of gay people live in places where they’d like to go about their lives without having to hear someone say “we don’t serve your kind here.”

    • theblackdog

      Unfortunately it won’t just be in the south where PoC and LGBT will have problems obtaining services unless they travel long distances.

  • schmannity

    I hope the couple wins, but I would not eat food prepared by a person against their will. (Is that E-Lax icing?)

    • Bill D. Burger

      It’s like sending food back at any, even a 5-star, restaurant. It’s just one of my phobias…I won’t.
      Who knows what they’ll do to, or on, it.

  • Joe Beese
  • Cousin Itt un Mondialiste

    Whatever happened to that Enlightenment idea that I will defend your rights ‘though I may disagree – to the death?

    • Spotts1701, Nothingburger Chef

      What are you, some kinda weirdo?

  • Bad Scooter

    “Picture it. Sicily, 1922. It was the worst of times, it was the worst of times.”
    (had to follow up on the Golden Girls shout-out)

  • bubbuhh

    When it comes to fresh food, I never buy from restaurants, bakeries, etc owneed or run by people who hate and fear me. Just sayin.

  • MynameisBlarney

    If these bigots that use religion to justify their ignorance and hatred of others are allowed to discriminate based on that stupid fuckin bullshit, then by goawd, we can tell them to fuck right off when they require our services.

  • TJ Barke

    These are people obsessed with superiority and social dominance. They need there to be undesirables, over whom they can exercise authority. If they have to treat gays like people, how are they supposed to exercise their privilege and “superiority”?

  • Gigglesnort

    This is kind of like the argument that religious people shouldn’t have to pay taxes that fund abortions for other people, maybe, because then they’d very indirectly be doing a sin. Whatever icky things gay people are doing are not being done by the baker baking them a cake. So do the plaintiffs think they are going to hell anyway, for facilitating gay marriage by cake-baking? If so, that is one vengeful God they have.

    • mysonsam

      It’s one very stupid argument, is what it is.

      If you haven’t figured out how not to fret over what consenting adults do with their privates….

  • Spotts1701, Nothingburger Chef

    Yeah, let’s do the “go somewhere else”. That’ll work so well when it’s the only bakery in town. Or you want to use the same florist your parents used for their wedding. Or it’s the only print shop that can make the invitations in time.

    • Bobathonic

      Or all such shops in town hold that policy.

    • theblackdog

      This has been exactly my issue because I lived in rural areas where there was 1, maybe 2 of certain shops. Maybe they should remember that the shops want to basically do what Henry Ford used to say about the Model T: You can have it in any color you want, so long as it’s black.

  • Michael Smith

    Some oral argument questions I would have:

    Are there any other instances in which it would be okay to refuse to sell a person a product when you have learned in advance that they are planning to use the product in a way that is perfectly legal and acceptable, but which you have a personal problem with?

    And is this affected by sexual orientation’s exclusion from “protected classes”? For instance, would this be more cut and dry and if a person was refusing to bake a cake for a bar mitzvah?

    • Spotts1701, Nothingburger Chef

      Would it be okay for a Catholic baker to refuse to make a cake for a couple if one of them were divorced?

      • Michael Smith

        I’m not sure. I just did a quick scan of the internet and it appears that divorced women do sometimes face discrimination and that there’s not a very reliable legal remedy.

    • House0fTheBlueLights
      • Michael Smith

        Thanks! That was a good explanation.

        So, really its about the constitutionality of Colorado’s law against discrimination against gay people. Not about whether, in the absence of a state law, the baker’s refusal would violate the customer’s constitutional rights – its whether enforcing the anti-discrimination law violates the baker’s constitutional rights. And it seems pretty clear that the answer to that is no. That refusing to bake a cake for gay people is not part of the protection offered by the First Amendment, either under freedom of religion or speech.

    • h4rr4r

      1. Sure, I don’t sell lumber to cross burners.

      • Michael Smith

        Right. Now if there were a state law that said you have to sell lumber to cross burners, would it violate your constitutional rights?

        I don’t know – it might not. You might have to do it. But luckily, that doesn’t seem to be a law that would pass any time soon.

        What we have with Colorado’s law is a public declaration that refusing to provide services to gay customer’s is bad, and I don’t think that the Constitution protects those who disagree from following the law.

        • h4rr4r

          If klan members becomes a protected class and I run a business open to the public, no it does not violate my rights.

          If they get their way I am starting a new church.

  • Martini Ambassador 🍸

    A few weeks ago, I was at a very nice restaurant having a nice dinner with some visiting American pals. We were mid-order when my hairdresser came in with his husband. We did all the pleasantries and whatnot, the husband introduced the resto manager as his sister, and then they got seated a few tables away. Anyway, at dessert time, the staff brought a cake to their table and started singing. I went over to wish them congrats on what was a celebration of their 1st wedding anniversary. The cake, as it turns out, was customized with a chocolate sauce drawing of a squirting penis and boobs. It was pretty much the best cake ever. So this Masterpiece dude thinks he’s an artist or whatever, but unless he can do ejactulating penis scrawl, he’s out of his league. Also, too, nobody has likely ever asked Mr Bigot do do that, so how cake baking goes against his beliefs, flour and eggs and sugar go in, cake comes out, you can’t explain that.

    • Persistent Tennessee Rain

      On another site where I post, some right wing fundie went off about “dick cakes.” It’s now a running joke on the site much the same way, “the cakes we like” is on this lovely mommy blog with dick jokes site. For the record, the cakes I like are dick cakes.

      • Spotts1701, Nothingburger Chef

        I had a friend who made dick cakes. She was very skilled.

    • theblackdog

      That restaurant and their staff is awesome.

  • MynameisBlarney
    • Martini Ambassador 🍸

      I prefer the 2nd one, TBH.

      • MynameisBlarney

        Yeah, the dentures really make it happen IMHO.

    • Persistent Tennessee Rain

      ha ha. I love “nailed it” pics :D

    • bubbuhh

      Zombie hedgehog

    • JohnBull

      Those are real teeth, too.

    • Michael R
      • AmazingProfessionalCrastinator

        I really shouldn’t read Wonkette when my wife is sleeping next to me. I don’t know how many times I’ve woken her up with my LOL.

  • Persistent Tennessee Rain

    I’m torn on this issue. Part of me wants to say, fine, don’t make the cakes, but you have to put a sign in your window saying that so that normal people can decided if they want to give you their business. And like schmannity posted, who wants to eat anything prepared by someone against their will?

    However, if you really, really wanted the cake, send one person in to purchase it and the baker will never know. As people have stated, wedding cakes don’t traditionally have names on them.

    But I’m not gay, so I should probably just shut up.

    • YoBunnyBunny

      Yeah, If I were not concerned about giving business to bigots, I’d say buy their cakes, take them to same-sex weddings, then publicize everywhere that Mr. Jeezus Christian Baker makes the most FABULOUS wedding cakes! Free advertising, right?

    • shivaskeeper

      No. Just no. The bakers have a public sign outside the store. They can of course set rules, no shirt, no shows, no service, rules about interacting with staff, etc… but they have to serve everyone who come through the door. It’s a public business. No one, no one ever, should be forced to look for other services because of the bigot behind the counter.

      It’s not a matter of convenience for the couple looking for the cake, or religion of the baker. This is about following the law. The law boils down to if you hang a public sign out, you serve the public, not just the part of the public you want to serve. It is supposed to be the same with all public business.

      Change your argument to sending in one person to look for an apartment to hide who they are from the bigoted landlord. Would that be acceptable? Why or why not?

      • Persistent Tennessee Rain

        Putting all the legal ramifications aside, why would you want to give your money to a bigoted asshole? What if you knew they didn’t want to make the cake, but had to anyway? Wouldn’t you rather give your business to someone who would congratulate you and be genuinely happy for you?

        On edit: Just to be clear, I’m not arguing with you or asking you to see my side. I’m genuinely curious.

        • Pisto75666

          If this guy can’t put aside his personal feelings in order to do his job, then maybe the service industry’s not for him.

          • Persistent Tennessee Rain

            I can’t disagree with that.

        • Spotts1701, Nothingburger Chef

          Putting aside the legal ramifications, it’s still the principle of the thing. Being open “to the pubic” means all the public. Not just the public you like.

          • shivaskeeper

            This. Of course you can make rules about who and how you serve the public, but they have to be applied to everyone who come through the door. Not just who you like or don’t like.

          • CripesAmighty

            Yeah. In essence, it’s a test of the ‘public accommodation’ doctrine as set forth in article II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. The reason it’s contested is that sexual orientation is not expressly included as a ‘protected class’. Nonetheless, allowing this to stand undermines the doctrine in that it violates its application under the ‘equal protection’ clause of the constitution. The obvious solution is simply to add sexual orientation and gender identification as specific prohibitions, but…

        • Gayer Than Thou

          I don’t want that. I would certainly investigate a baker’s reputation for bigotry on Angie’s List, just like I’d investigate a plumber’s competence. We all hope that the professionals we engage are competent and will treat us well.

        • shivaskeeper

          Putting the legal ramifications aside why does the bigot get a free pass to be a bigot?

          That’s the wrong line of reasoning anyway. There is legal, and illegal, What he is doing is illegal. Public accommodations for the public. Not public accommodations for the part of the public he wants to serve.

          As for whether a company I do business with is happy for me or going to congratulate me, IDGAF. I am paying for a service or a product that that business produces. It is a professional relationship.

          Would it be acceptable if this was purely racist as opposed to sex/gender discrimination? Also, answer the question about if the housing scenario would be acceptable.

          • Persistent Tennessee Rain

            Of course housing discrimination is unacceptable. So is not wanting to make a cake for a gay wedding. I never once tried to argue that it was acceptable.

          • shivaskeeper

            But it’s not acceptable to not make the cake. It’s a public shop. That’s the whole point. Just as a landlord cannot, or is not supposed to, use personal bigotry to decide who gets to rent, the baker cannot use personal bigotry to decide who to bake for.

        • Cheesus Crust _ Rebel

          What happens when the legal precident is set that you can legally discriminate based on religious beliefs… what happens to an LGBTQ person who needs police assistance ASAP but the LEO that is close enough to help is a fucking bigot and now, legally, doesn’t have to do anything. Or the EMT, or the Dr, or the…. can you see why this is dangerous policy?

    • Gayer Than Thou

      The problem is that a sign in the door that says a baker won’t make cakes for same-sex weddings sends a message to the whole community about the place of its gay members. And a bunch of signs in a bunch of doors definitely sends a sign. Gay people are a numerical minority virtually everywhere we live, even in big cities, and lots of gay people live in places in which even our non-gay supporters are themselves outnumbered.

      • Persistent Tennessee Rain

        I was thinking more in terms of how it would soon put that person out of business, but since I am not surrounded by bigots, I always assume they are in the minority.

        • Gayer Than Thou

          It might do, but in a lot of places they would have much more business – which also sends a message to the community.

          • Persistent Tennessee Rain

            I live in a liberal bubble. I only know one bigot/racist and I only have to see him twice a year.

    • jesterpunk

      Its not just the cake, if they can legally discriminate here what happens when a doctor decides they wont want to serve gay people? Or when the sheriff decides gay people dont get the same protections? In a big city you can go to another doctor but in a smaller town that is the only doctor around.

  • Mary Theresa
  • MynameisBlarney
    • The Rain in Spain’s Therapist

      The one on the right is a shot taken from the RNC.

    • Bill D. Burger

      Baker who did the one on the right also did Larry Craig’s cake for his farewell bash in D.C.

    • Gayer Than Thou

      If you’re talking about Grindr, then the “expectations” and “reality” labels are reversed.

    • arglebargle

      Good Lord, I hope that one on the right isn’t close to reality or I’m way less “manly” than I thought I was.

    • JohnBull

      That’s pretty much the American Dream under a republican regime.

      • MynameisBlarney

        Purple Penis Cakes?

    • h4rr4r
      • janecita

        No, no, no! Three penises!

        • h4rr4r

          That is why he smiles at the end.

        • The Rain in Spain’s Therapist

          A pee-fecta!

    • theblackdog

      I see they went with the King Triton castle.

  • La forza del resistino

    Tell me the lavender cake to the baker’s left is not a phallic celebration
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7a8d8dd82b6f81b51343127eb4934e5d5671640d6e73632559662a669e29ee52.jpg

  • spangled

    next time democrats have any sort of power we need to aggressively push to make gay people and trans people protected classes.

    we think that since we’ve made some progress it won’t roll back….but it can and will. especially if trump gets another supreme court pick.

    my sister is a labor lawyer, and it is nuts what you can get fired for in this country – including being gay in the majority of states.

  • Oblios_Cap

    This whole situation just takes the cake.

    • schmannity

      It’s cruller punishment.

      • puredog

        I donut like these puns.

        • Pisto75666

          Which baguettes the question: how do we make them stop?

          • schmannity

            Better contracts, especially with bear claws.

          • Cousin Itt un Mondialiste

            I dough know.

          • Pisto75666

            Well, we’re on a roll. Might as well keep going.

          • Gayer Than Thou

            These puns are really trivializing the issue, and that makes me want to challah.

          • Ricky-pus gutted tub of guts

            Sit back and watch them flour.

          • Pisto75666

            It’s really a cereal problem.

        • theblackdog

          Send your complaint to the bismarcks

    • JohnBull

      Quit egging us on!

    • bbayliss

      It raises questions that knead to be answered.

    • Ricky-pus gutted tub of guts

      And not the ones we like!

    • Mavenmaven

      Come up with an original pun, at yeast.

      • Querolous

        The moore puns, the batter we like it.

    • BearGHAZI

      That was a rye remark

  • Gayer Than Thou

    Someone on Tweeter was asking the world at large to listen to this guy and find the hate in his heart. I don’t fucking care what’s in his heart. I want to be able to buy a cake (or any other goods and services) on the same terms as everyone else like as if I was as normal as they are.

  • Daniel Hooper

    “It is, however, very true that religious beliefs have been used to justify:

    -slavery
    -women not being allowed to vote
    -Jim Crow laws
    -laws prohibiting interracial marriages
    -schools that want to ban students from interracial dating.”

    And now, thanks to Roy Moore, pedophilia.

    • Bobathonic

      Muhammed libelz.

  • Skwerl the Taco Hunter

    So wingnuts, when you finally exit the closet are you going to whine about how other people are treating you the way you treat them now?

    • Duke

      I knew a skinny Baker. He was OK. Then again, he wouldn’t have benn much of a soccer player if he was fat.

  • janecita

    I’m sorry, but I wouldn’t trust a skinny baker with my wedding cake. I want Mario Batalli, Ina Gardner, Emeril Lagasse, people that obviously enjoy their own creations! It looks that the only thing that Jack Phillips enjoys is meth.

    • schmannity
      • Kiri the Unicorn

        Kenny Baker was a good guy, though.

    • theblackdog

      This and never trust anyone who has pristine looking cookbooks in their kitchen.

      • janecita

        So true, some my cookbooks are kind of disgusting.

        • cmd resistor

          Yeah, the ones I actually use, also, too.

        • theblackdog

          Mine definitely show they’re being used, also quite a few printed off the internet recipes where the paper has grease spatters or hand-written mods to the recipe.

      • proudgrampa

        I dropped a cookbook into the cake batter once. The pages turned out nice and crispy…

      • Ellie

        Back in the days when I cooked, you could always tell which were my favorite recipes. I was not a neat cook.

    • Shan

      Maybe I should bake more.

  • Meanie-meanie, tickle a person

    Don’t you just love how Google can bring the internet to its knees merely by unplugging their reCaptcha server because then nobody can fucking log in anyfuckingwhere that uses it? “Check your connection”, eh? No, for once my connection is just fine. Fuck you Google #FOOGLE!

    • Querolous

      We can no longer blame Disqus for acting up. They are now part of Zeta Global.

  • chascates

    Your sincerely held delusions do not exempt you from obeying the law.

    • Michael R

      It will be fun when they do because I have a few religions up my sleeve .

    • AmazingProfessionalCrastinator

      They do if you’re Hobby Lobby.

  • Duke

    What makes it a gay cake? As in the article, a business can choose to not provide a service in general but it can’t refuse to provide it to a person based on who that person is.

    Individual religious rights do not override other people’s constutional rights or the law. Sorry!

    • Oblios_Cap

      Gay cakes like cakes that are made from the same ingredients? Then all cakes are gay.

      • Duke

        Ex post facto!

  • jesterpunk
    • Oblios_Cap

      How can states constitutionally ban atheists form holding public office?

      • jesterpunk

        From talking about this with Space Tacos the laws dont do anything right now but they are still on the books in the state constitution. So if the right gets their religious freedom rules they want it would be in effect again.

        • Shan

          Kind of like anti-abortion laws in various states. If RvW should ever be overturned, their “trigger laws” will go into effect and automatically make abortion illegal again.

  • All the talk of Mr Masterpiece Theater Cakes anti-gay bigot here makes me think of nothing but the old SNL sketch “Sexy Cakes Erotic Bakery” starring Patrick Stewart, where all the “erotic cakes” were of women going to the bathroom.

  • La forza del resistino

    I’ll sell you as a ghey a cake off the rack that I made yesterday, but that is where I draw the line. Right, got it.

  • Bill D. Burger

    Eyeroll Jesus cake can’t believe this shit. “Just ye bake the fucking cake already. It’s fine…I can handle it, you hick bastard.”

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ab1f5f9da00803718264090fcbc976735f7132ce657bdba8c2b7f402e48fb06f.jpg

    • Skwerl the Taco Hunter

      Love it. (((Christ))) it is good.

    • The Rain in Spain’s Therapist

      Now I want a “face-palm Jesus” cake.

      • Shan

        Then how would you know it’s Jesus?

        • Daniel

          …he’s face palming. There’d be one rather noticeable clue that it was Jesus.

          • Shan

            Oh, I was raised heathenish. I forgot about the hands.

        • The Rain in Spain’s Therapist

          All the cups of punch surrounding the cake miraculously turn to wine.

  • h4rr4r

    Hey religionists, we don’t care why you do hateful bigoted things. Just stop doing them.

  • Bub, the cynical zombie

    America is no longer only burning figuratively:
    https://twitter.com/WLV_investor/status/938410022538682368

    • JohnBull

      You mean it wasn’t a typical commute before.

    • Ricky-pus gutted tub of guts

      All because homos wanted a cake. :(

    • Martini Ambassador 🍸

      Holy shit!

    • Wonky McUbtrye

      It’s wrong that I’m a little jealous. But I am. I’d love to see that up close.

  • Cheesus Crust _ Rebel

    Show me on the crucifix where the gays hurt you…

    • FukuiSanYesOta

      With this guy? He probably paid.

  • Anna Rompage

    Sorry, but the concept is pretty simple, if you own a business that offers public accommodations, such as products and/or services to the general public, you can not pick and choose who you will and will not serve…

    If a nazi comes into your business, you cannot be compelled to make them a cake with a swastika on it, unless of course that is in your product line that you offer, but you cannot refuse to sell them a cake that would be in your normal line of production…

  • mfp, all 6s&7s&9s

    if i were considering becoming a gay porn star, i would Totally steal the name ‘ronn blitzer’

    • mfp, all 6s&7s&9s

      also, i nominate robyn for the next vacant supreme court position, as her legal reasoning and argument are more subtle, nuanced, in-depth and Common-Fucking-Sensible than 1/2 of the fuckwits currently sitting on the scotus

  • Villago Delenda Est

    Masterpiece Cake Shop is doomed. The market will punish this asshole for his stupidity.

    • Oblios_Cap

      He’s going for the GoFundMe money from idjots.

    • Cousin Itt un Mondialiste

      “Masterpiece Cakeshop is not currently accepting requests to create custom wedding cakes,” it says. “Please check back in the future.”

      https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/11/26/gay-couple-devout-baker-take-cake-fight-high-court/875305001/

      • Ghenghis McCann

        Well, I’ve checked Back To The Future and they don’t appear in it. Are they in one of the sequels?

      • Ellie

        And that’s all they really had to do in the first place, and why didn’t they, since they obviously knew this would come up??

  • Michael Smith

    So it isn’t about whether refusing to sell the cake to a gay couple violates their constitutional rights – its about whether the Colorado law prohibiting the refusal violates the baker’s constitutional rights. And the answer to that question should clearly be no. Freedom of religion usually protects things that are essential to the practice of one’s religion – it isn’t a license to break any law that you disagree with even if it has a very tenuous connection to the practice of your faith. And freedom of speech protection I think is limited in a situation where you are creating a product for the general public, and then want to break a law that prohibits you from creating that product for one group.

    • Spotts1701, Nothingburger Chef

      “What [the “compelling interest” doctrine] produces in those other fields — equality of treatment, and an unrestricted flow of contending speech — are constitutional norms; what it would produce here — a private right to ignore generally applicable laws — is a constitutional anomaly.” – Antonin Scalia, majority opinion, Employment Division v. Smith

      • Villago Delenda Est

        Except when it applied to Fat Tony, then all bets were off.

  • Mavenmaven

    The argument that Jews, etc, will be forced to sell things against their will reminded me of an old joke. A racist is at a bar, and, noticing a Jewish person in the crowd, yells out, a round of drinks for everyone but that Jew there! The victim sits there and smiles, which annoys the racist, who then again cries out, a round of drinks for everyone but that Jew over there! His victim starts to laugh, which prompts another few rounds of drinks from the racist. Ultimately, when he sees the victim is not getting upset, he asks a friend, who *is* that Jewboy? To which his friend replied: the owner of the bar.

    • Oblios_Cap

      I always liked that Brian Bosworth owned the clothing company that sold the “I hate Bosworth” items. He made a fortune.

      • Shibusa

        He was an epic dick. Loved when Bo Jacksons steamrolled the pompous ass into the end zone.

    • theblackdog

      Nice joke. Unfortunately I have seen bigots saying that if SCOTUS rules against the cake shop that they’re going to find a Muslim owned bakery and ask for a cake with bacon frosting or to put the Prophet Muhammad on it.

      • Shan

        Because they’re idiots.

        • Oblios_Cap

          But, of course.

        • theblackdog

          Yeah, pretty much

      • Mavenmaven

        I hope they eat the cake they get after that request.

        • theblackdog

          I wouldn’t be against it if the baker accidentally dropped a jar of hot pepper relish into the batter.

      • Wonky McUbtrye

        Which would be a real gotcha, if the issue was Masterpiece’s refusal to decorate a cake with two dudes kissing on it.

        • theblackdog

          True but it’s not like bigots tend to see nuance.

      • A smart Muslim baker would just draw a picture of a cartoon sheikh and tell the idiot that it was the Prophet. How would they know different?

  • Oblios_Cap
    • proudgrampa

      Well, that’s fake right there.

      He’s not even a reporter…

      • alpacapunchbowl

        If you wanna see something really funny, tell that to his face.
        Don’t worry, it won’t hurt his feelings. He loves his baseless spluttering righteous indignation.

    • Gayer Than Thou

      I would pay money (to the charity of my choice) to see C-Tuck deliver the news like Shouty North Korean Lady News Anchor.

  • Infrequentcontributor

    Would it be ok to refuse a cake to an interracial couple? If not, then it’s not ok to refuse a cake to a gay couple. I don’t think this is so complicated…

    • YoBunnyBunny

      I wouldn’t put it past the bigots to think discriminating against interracial couples is okay. It’s not complicated, but they are a bunch of simpletons.

      • theblackdog

        I’m sure there are many bigots who are still upset at Loving vs Virginia.

  • Royal Ugly Dude

    like one of those episodes of the Golden Girls that was 90% flashbacks and 10% eating cheesecake

    Cheesecake is the gayest cake. Also too: clip show libel!!

  • Ellie

    He said, IIRC, that he would make and sell cookies and cupcakes to gay people, but not a wedding cake. I’m assuming that the Christian sect to which he belongs, mandates a bizarre sacrament of marriage that includes cake, rather than as the rest of the world, ceremony first, then party and cake. I’ve always longed to know the particulars of this rather peculiar ceremony.

    • cmd resistor

      My cousin had assorted (delicious) pies at her wedding. I think maybe one of them had a bride/groom on it. Confusing.

      • Ellie

        I’d take wedding pie, happily.

  • Resistance Fighter Astraea

    A lot of people are pretending to not know that there is a difference between the kinds of traits that you are legally allowed to discriminate against and the kind of traits that you cannot, and that it’s possible for the law to distinguish between the two.

  • disqus_lWwzrwNaw6

    People invest so much hope in the notion that Anthony Kennedy is a “swing vote.”

    Let me tell you: Anthony Kennedy, whatever “swinging” he may have done (and it’s a lot less than he’s given credit for, if you look at his actual history), is by now an exhausted, rather bitter old man whose decisions have always overwhelmingly favored the reactionary right.

    He is part of a spectacularly activist reactionary majority on a Court that has, in recent years, increasingly openly operated as a front organization for the Republican Party, and is about to take it to the next level with Gorsuch in the Merrick Garland seat.

    I’d bet Kennedy believes that he can use this case to “balance” his decision in Obergefell–that Obergefell provides him with all the cover he needs, in the eyes of the Chuck Todds and John Dickersons of this world, to split the difference and make a really, truly, cripplingly rotten decision in the present instance.

    We’ve seen what the Roberts Court is all about, in a series of decisions empowering the wealthy to fund the GOP without limits or oversight: shredding and undermining the voting rights and electoral protections of citizens who are likely to be non-Republicans: empowering corporations to dodge responsibility when they lie, cheat, and poison the citizenry: and eroding the rights of workers, whistleblowers, and women, not to mention the rights of people who would a lot rather not be shot dead by some random gunman in the name of that pretzel-twist vision of the Second Amendment that gave a suffering, bullet-riddled nation the decision in Heller.

    The cake thing is going to be decided in favor of the same vision of “religious freedom” that the Court contorted into being in Hobby Lobby: the notion that strongly held (ha) religious beliefs can be exploited to preempt every notion and permutation of fairness, workplace rights, or secular democracy.

    The immediate target is the right of gay human beings to be accommodated as equals rather than second class citizens, but the larger goal is to undermine the ability of the state to regulate workplace discrimination of any kind.

    Hobby Lobby empowered corporations to deny women employees equal access to full-spectrum health care coverage. This case opens the door to righteous assaults on the most fundamental rights to be treated fairly and equally, not only impacting customers, but by extrapolation employees as well — all of it based the most cynical and shameless manipulation of “strongly held” or “sincerely held” religious beliefs.

    Kennedy isn’t smart enough to recognize that he’s being played here: that he’s about to empower theocracy and open a Pandora’s box of anti-regulatory, anti-secular, anti-fairness, anti-justice legal doctrine.

    Or maybe he is smart enough, and this is actually who he really is.

    • mfp, all 6s&7s&9s

      every bit of this^^…this case will be settled a la hobby lobby, as that case laid the groundwork for every ‘religious freedom’ case to be brought to the court from now to forever…the ‘religious’ fuckery set up by the hobby lobby decision will be never-ending

      • ariel_gee_398

        Hobby Lobby, let’s not forget, was decided not on Constitutional grounds but on RFRA, a stupid law proposed by Democrats and signed into law by Bill Clinton. Thanks a lot, boys.

        • mfp, all 6s&7s&9s

          yes–and that’s what has happened and will forever happen every time a dem tries to pander to conservatives…bites us in the ass Every Fucking Time

          • disqus_lWwzrwNaw6

            Religion, in the political arena, is always and invariably a Trojan horse targeting public education, civil rights and workplace rights. Period.

          • mfp, all 6s&7s&9s

            always

  • Villago Delenda Est

    Well, the Twitter machine is broken ATM.

    My life is in suspension.

    • Ghenghis McCann

      So, you’re neither the solution nor the precipitate?

      • Villago Delenda Est

        I’m blaming Agit Pai. Tubes be slow.

      • Cousin Itt un Mondialiste

        Chemical Reactions Matter

  • Cousin Itt un Mondialiste
  • Gayer Than Thou

    I will say this: well-settled principles of religious freedom require that if you are unable to bake a cake for gay people you should have the right to leave the cake-baking business.

  • YoBunnyBunny

    I think they’re conflating making the cake with selling the cake. Yes, making the cake could be his own artistic expression, but the problem is that he is discriminating in the transaction of selling the cake. Unless same-sex couples are directing him to do something special to the cake that he would otherwise not do with a straight couple, I don’t think his rights are being infringed upon.

    • Gayer Than Thou

      Right? Bakers absolutely have the right to say to all customers that they don’t make non-kosher cakes, or they don’t make cakes that depict sex, or the won’t put a swastika on a cake. Or that they won’t use green frosting. As long as it is true for every customer, regardless of the customer’s status. (Though it’s worth noting that membership in the Klan or the Nazi party is not a protected status under Colorado law, so a bakery could actually say “no Nazis” and get away with it. And I am not going to lose sleep over that.)

      • YoBunnyBunny

        Exactly. I have yet to hear a baker layout how the creative process for making a cake would somehow be different for same-sex couples and straight couples*. Their creative expression is the same. What’s difference is their willingness to go into the business of accepting the order and money and delivering the service. And THAT is not an expression of creativity.

        *Maybe, they’ll have to write what appears** to be the names of two people of the same gender on the cake. That’s not the baker’s personal creative expression either–he’s TRANSCRIBING what are, in fact, their names (not making them up from his imagination).

        **Names don’t always indicate gender
        So… all this is a bunch of bullshit.

        • cmd resistor

          Not to mention most wedding cakes don’t have names on them. Maybe they can’t handle putting the little same sex figurines on the top.

  • Dept. of Space Tacos

    we haven’t studied this kind of discrimination, but I’m JUST NOW studying employment discrimination section of notes for final.

    Protected class wingnuts – the rest is strawmen arguments. (Curious if legal beagles can weigh in on whether a positive decision from SCOTUS (ha!) will mean sexual orientation will become a protected class in employment discrimination. Would seem silly not to – but, modern America and all.

    • Gayer Than Thou

      It seems like protection from employment discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, at the federal level, would be a statutory matter, which would require interpreting Title VII to prohibit it (or, more likely, amending Title VII). Private employment doesn’t involve a state actor, which is necessary for a constitutional claim. This case is framed the way it is because the State of Colorado is requiring the bakery to make the cake, which gives the necessary state actor. Otherwise, the cake buyers have no constitutional claim against a private baker.

      • Dept. of Space Tacos

        ah! thanks for the input. I’m just now seeing the protected classes are defined in the Title VII of Civil Rights Act.

  • Daniel

    Just to remind everyone:

    in the same week this fight for religious freedom is taking place, Alabama is looking to elect a man who opposes the very idea that Muslims should be allowed to serve in positions of elected office.

    • Dept. of Space Tacos

      surpised he hasn’t advocated for stringing up us atheist folk (it wouldn’t be the first time, nor would I be surprised if somebody found an old Moore tweet stating such).

      • h4rr4r

        I have bad news for him, I only own adult guns. Not like that little thing he stole from one of his teen “girlfriends”.

      • shivaskeeper

        “The Left” by his definition is atheist. Or possibly Muslim. For him and his ilk, religion and political party are one and the same. There are no Christians outside the GOP by their own doctrine.

        • Dept. of Space Tacos

          i dont know about moore specifically – but somehow I’m not sure who they hate more, atheists or the muslims (we generally rank near each other at hte bottom of approval/disapproval type polls).

          one the one hand, at least the muslims have a faith, on the other hand – TERRISTSS!!!1!

          • shivaskeeper

            Usually atheists end up at the bottom of those polls by a wide margin.

          • Dept. of Space Tacos

            huh…not surprising. total rational “friends” have freaked right hte fuck out when they find out i was a nonbeliever. Like screeching YOU”RE GOING TO HELL! freaked out.

            Which I find toothless, as I don’t believe in one (besides hell on earth, but that’s purely metaphorical).

          • shivaskeeper

            Usually they never bothered to tell me I was going to Help and jumped right to I was a devil worshipper. Because not believing in a higher power means you worship a different higher power.

            If you have the time and inclination next time it happens ask them where they get their doctrine and concept of Hell. It doesn’t come from the Bible. There isn’t any mention of He’ll at all in any of the original texts. FFS, the Jews don’t even have a concept of Hell, so it’s not Old Testament, and the New Testament God is all loving, so eternal torment does not fit.

            Most likely their concept of Hell is all pop culture. Everything from Dante to Event Horizion, paintings, books, stories, TV shows, and all manner of other cultural references. But it does not come from their never changing holy book.

          • Dept. of Space Tacos

            i read somewhere that the concept of hell as all hot and fire and brimstone is a fairly recently (relatively) phenomenon – the older concept being that it was cold and dark without the light of god’s love or something.

            The medieval priests really did a number on the public’s perception of what the bible says, according to people smarter htan me.

          • shivaskeeper

            Near as I can tell there are three mentions in the Bible. Sheol, the Jewish underworld, Tartarus, the Greek underworld that encompasses all the various places you could end up, and the Lake of Fire set aside for Lucifer and the rebellious angels.

            The fire and the demons and the pitchforks and all that comes primarily from Dante’s Inferno and Medieval paintings originally.

          • Oblios_Cap

            And usually darker.

          • Dept. of Space Tacos

            aye, good point.

        • Querolous

          Anyone who is not in his little sliver of Xinsanity is by his definition an unbeliever.

          • shivaskeeper

            This is also true. It’s the main reason I don’t fear a theocracy form these clowns. The rest of the sects will shut them down as they know they would be outlawed as fast as the atheists and Muslims. There is only room for one truth. Every single sect thinks they and they alone have it. They are not going to compromise with another group on the Truth.

    • Bad Tom

      Roy Moore ain’t too down with the gays, neither.

    • BadKitty904

      Alabama is looking to elect a pedophile who opposes the very idea that Muslims should be allowed to serve in positions of elected office.

      Fixed that for you…

  • ariel_gee_398

    I suspect these people would be decidedly less in favor of this type of religious freedom were a Muslim baker to decide not to sell cakes to Christians getting married. Or white people getting married. That, of course, would be oppression.

    • Dept. of Space Tacos

      aye indeed, but we’re a christian nation and they should get ALL the breaks and rest of us non-christians should just be happy they allow us to live here, etc etc etc

  • Bill D. Burger
  • Bill D. Burger
  • MynameisBlarney
  • TundraGrifter

    Robyn: In other words (although your words are quite nice!) the defenses of the Bigot Baker are half-baked.

  • Jenny

    America is Descartes’ method on crack and K2. Belief of what one feels is true has always been just as important and equal to true fact.

    Historically, we go through a few sane periods, but the country and its citizens, are mostly fucking nuts.

    • Oblios_Cap

      It has a lot to do with our stupid attitudes about sex.

    • JohnC44

      Hey don’t forget the bath salts.

  • BadKitty904
    • Cousin Itt un Mondialiste

      But His emails!

  • Bill D. Burger

    Science walks by a ‘religious’ person:

    https://media.giphy.com/media/AJvvKKfwDqCkM/giphy.gif

    • Shan

      Is that from Misfits?

      • Dept. of Space Tacos

        great show.

        • Shan

          I thought it went downhill after the Irish guy left.

          • Dept. of Space Tacos

            i can’t disagree – definitely after season one – and for fucking sure when they could start trading powers around.

            I stopped somewhere in season 2, but I think there are more episodes.

  • Joe Beese

    Can’t you just picture him now in the Oval Office, kneeling beside the Resolute Desk, hands clasped, head lowered, eyes closed, praying to the Almighty to spare the innocent?

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/938440878577856512

    • Villago Delenda Est

      He’s not innocent. Nor are his Ivana spawn.

      They’re all going to jail.

    • Cousin Itt un Mondialiste

      Just stfu.

    • Martini Ambassador 🍸

      Far too many multi-syllabic words to be written by Dotard. Another drafted by the lawyer?

      • Villago Delenda Est

        Probably by that human pustule Dan Scavino.

    • Royal Ugly Dude

      That was a nice thing for his lawyer to write.

    • Chyron HR

      The Federal Thoughts and Prayers Management Agency is ON IT.

    • IdiokraticKulturKommissar

      Your standard fill-in-the-blanks all purpose disaster tweet template.

    • Dept. of Space Tacos

      uh, how long before the hollywood elites(!) shit starts up….

    • Ghenghis McCann

      Is there anything left in the ‘Thoughts and Prayers’ budget? Trump seems to have been been pretty liberal with both.

    • Non-Threatening Ron

      One of his? Unpossible. That’s a staff tweet if ever I’ve seen one.

    • mailman27

      I have a problem with the “thoughts,” as well.

  • Spurning Beer

    If the Supremes come down on the wrong side of this case, I’m going to make some stickers to place on the windows of pharmacies, saying:

    Notice: Based on our sincere religious beliefs, we will not fill prescriptions for contraceptives or erectile dysfunction medications, or sell prophylactics to anyone not presenting documentation that they are legally married.

    • Teto85

      And you will probably make some sales.

  • BadKitty904
  • MynameisBlarney

    My mom made me a Winnie the Pooh birthday cake when I was 6 or 7.
    No sugar, with wheat flour.
    She used honey for the cake batter and actually harvested a shit ton of honeysuckles to use as a sweetener in the icing.

    I loved it, because I’d never had sugar at that point, and my friends hated it.
    I think we (the family) finished it off in about two days.

    To this day, store bought cakes are too sickly sweet for me.

    • Shan

      I had friends with moms like yours. One of them was given carob as a substitute for chocolate. I tried it and was very sad for my little pal.

      • FukuiSanYesOta

        My mom tried that for a little while.

        She got sick of throwing out cakes.

      • MynameisBlarney

        I actually liked carob.

        • Shan

          Do you still eat it?

          • MynameisBlarney

            lol no.
            I haven’t tried it in years, but last time was during my vegan years and it was still good.

          • Shan

            Vegan makes me sad, too. I mean, I can enjoy it sometimes but I couldn’t STAY vegan for an extended period of time. I’d eventually snap and have a BLT or a Philly cheesesteak sandwich every few days.

          • MynameisBlarney

            What brought me out of my veganism was having to walk past The Flying Burrito Bros. every day when heading home from class.
            I caved and got two massive beef burritos one day and never really looked back on my vegan ways.

        • Thiazin Red

          I know all of these words and yet the sentence makes no sense. Liked carob? Nope can’t understand that.

        • jodyleek

          My mom used to buy carob covered nuts at the long ago closed co-op in my home town. I would like to have them again, because I enjoyed them.

      • cmd resistor

        My mom went through a healthy phase and tried carob.

      • natoslug

        That would be me, until my parents finally moved out of our school bus and we joined the civilized world. The only advantage carob had over, say Hershey bars, is that my parents had to actually pay for carob bars rather than have them as part of the Safeway and Co-Op dumpster dives that regularly supplemented our pantry in the early years.

        • Shan

          What’s the story behind the school bus?

          • natoslug

            It was the late 60’s. Pretty sure you were required to have a maroon-purplish schoolbus with sketchy brakes back then.

      • Octavia Bratenpfeffer

        My mother had a hippy friend who once gave me and my brother wrapped Christmas gifts of… dried bananas. That went into family folklore.

    • Thiazin Red

      You’d never had sugar at 6 or 7? There were no snacks in school or at friends’ houses? Thats a pretty impressive run.

      • MynameisBlarney

        I did have sugar before then now that I think about it.
        And that crazy sugar rush was probably the main reason we were taken off of it, lol.
        There were sugary snacks everywhere, but mom was good about satisfying our sweet tooth with homemade stuff and treats from the healthfood store.
        Here’s a weird twist though, I was having trouble with reading and spelling at that point.
        After an emergency appendectomy and few months recovering in a hospital, mom gave up on the sugar free thing.
        That’s when my reading and spelling got much better. I was a grade ahead of classmates not long after I got back into school.

        • DT

          Sugar rush is a myth.

          • MynameisBlarney

            1st time I ever heard that.

          • DT
          • MynameisBlarney

            I read plenty, though generally not web md.
            Last time I read something there, I was sure I had cancer.

          • DT

            Then just google “sugar rush myth” and pick your source. It’s not a fringe view.

          • MynameisBlarney

            I’ll take your word for it.

    • proudgrampa

      Are you sure it was honey? It might have been hunny.

      Just sayin’.

    • The Militant Homosexual Agenda

      And the icing they use is same as the filling in Twinkies…whipped Crisco and sugar.

      • Marion in Savannah

        Twinkie filling is whipped Nauga milk. You’re right about store-bought cake icing, though.

        • Slamtundra

          I thought they only used the hides. I’m glad they don’t waste everything else.

    • Dept. of Space Tacos

      honeysuckles is nice – we had one near a fence and I loved it growing up. Maybe I’ll plant one this spring.

      • Shan

        Don’t do it!

        • Dept. of Space Tacos

          why not? I don’t use it for eating…I just always liked teh way it smelled.

          • Marion in Savannah

            Invasive species. Several species of honeysuckle have become invasive when introduced outside their native range, particularly in New Zealand and the United States. Invasive species include L. japonica, L. maackii, L. morrowii, and L. tatarica.

          • YoBunnyBunny

            AWWWWW man!!! So I can’t have that honeysuckle garden???

            I always love the smell of honeysuckle because it reminds me of growing up in NC. We get a few weedy growths in Maryland, but it ain’t the same.

          • wide_stance_hubby

            Take heart: there are species of honeysuckle that are native! Also, did not realize you were in Maryland–welcome. The rich scent of the invasive type always meant school is out, and has fond memories, despite its evil invasiveness (same goes for multiflora roses).

      • MynameisBlarney

        Yeah, I grew up with one on a fence too.
        Watch out for bees and ants though.

    • cmd resistor

      I worked in a grocery store bakery when in high school and the huge vat of icing was just gross to me.
      The cake decorator worked during the day and she would leave some cakes with flowers and shit with blank space for names if someone came in needing a cake at night. I remember ruining a lovely cake because writing that crap is not as easy as it looks!
      This was many years ago.

    • Non-Threatening Ron

      They are even if you use cake mix. The icing is even worse.

    • Meccalopolis

      yeah, I was raised by hippies too. bringing pumpernickel and natural peanut butter sammiches to school when all my friends had skippy and wonder bread with little oreo cookie packs, for desert, desert!

      • MynameisBlarney

        I remember the natural peanut butter.
        It wasn’t so bad, but the jelly…
        Almost colorless and flavorless.
        We’d get fresh fruit for desert lol.

        • Arolpin

          Luckily my parents, while strongly on the hippie-side of the equation, knew better than to mess with jelly. They generally made their own, which was a hell of a lot better than Smuckers, but they did force me to eat whole-grain bread and Mr. Adams peanut butter. I can’t stand white bread to this day, but I buy Jif Super-chunk for myself, because my wife & kids for some reason enjoy the abomination that is Skippy Creamy. (Granted, Skippy is OK to cook with, but if I’m having a PB&J, it will be on 7-grain bread, with chunky peanut butter, and hopefully jalapeno jelly.)

          • MynameisBlarney

            Ditto on the white bread.
            And if I’m gonna eat spicy jelly, it’s gonna with wheat thins and cream cheese.
            As for peanut butter, other than a Reese’s here and there, I can’t remember the last time I had actual peanut butter out of a jar.

  • Bill D. Burger
  • Christopher Story

    Gorsuch is a Federalist.

    • Bill D. Burger

      Preacher Gorsuch is, as we know well in CO, a smarmy, self-satisfied, egoistic Christofascist who will, eventually, make Scalia (his idol) look progressive in comparison.

      https://i.imgflip.com/1makyc.jpg

      • Thiazin Red

        Also ruled that a truck driver should damn well have frozen to death rather than you know not.

      • BadKitty904

        And, in re: the SCOTUS, he’s just the thin-end of the Republican wedge…

  • (((Sedagive)))

    I am an entrepreneur and a job-creator who is down with the Temple of Satan, the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and the Church of the SubGenius.

    I will only sell things to people who practice the philosophy of that far-left, socialist, liberal Jew Jesus Christ: peace, love, compassion, embracing the other, giving to those less fortunate, feeding the hungry, and protection of the weak against the strong.

    Crazy, I know.

    • Baconzhurtzin’

      Bob loves the gheys.

      • BadKitty904

        For their innate slackness.

      • (((Sedagive)))

        A ghey friend of mine is an ordained minister in the Church of J. R. “Bob” Dobbs.

        He has ministered all over the place.

        • Meccalopolis

          slack!

      • Shan

        I don’t understand this “Bob” church thing.

      • BearDeLaOursistance

        Is there a Church of the Domgenius? Asking for a friend…

  • Bananas Foster

    OT:

    To all those assholes who deny climate change is a thing…

    UCLA, fucking UCLA, is being threatened by wildfire.

    Southern California is so fucked.

    • Resistance Fighter Callyson

      JFC, it’s hitting LA County now? I better turn the local news on, and maybe pack a bag in case I need to GTFO FFS.

    • Dept. of Space Tacos

      i visited the campus once looking for roommates – that’s fucking nuts…all up there surrounded by hills.

      It’s pretty, but ye gods that’s gonna be scary.

    • Meccalopolis

      kind of glad I don’t live in CA anymore. earthquakes, wildfires, mudslides, give me five feet of snow and twenty below

      • Bananas Foster

        I feel like I moved to Oregon at the right time.

  • Katamount

    You can always tell they’re desperate for vindication when they conflate “actions” with “beliefs.”

    Us: “Stop bullying LGBT people.”
    Them: “You’re attacking our beliefs! Freedom of speech! FREEDOM OF SPEECH!”
    Us: “Believe whatever terrible nonsense you want, just stop bullying LGBT people.”
    Them: “ARGLEBARGLE!!!!!111”

  • eyelashviper
    • YoBunnyBunny

      THIS!

      I’m waiting for the first guy to tell me that when a guy told him “Nice ass” in the cellblock he just brushed it off as “boys will boys.”

      • Shan

        The whole prison comparison is depressing on so many levels, though.

    • Katamount

      That’s an excellent turn of phrase, but damn that’s depressing that we have to evoke that trope just to get men to consider being decent human beings…..

  • Resistance Fighter Callyson
  • Andre

    It’s always nice when the excuses for shitty behavior have had the opportunity to age like a rare cheese. Smells similar, also too. apologies to stinky cheese enthusiasts

    • The Militant Homosexual Agenda

      Mmm, the smell of Limburger in the morning!

  • BadKitty904
    • sincarne

      I don’t think even that’s the problem. The problem is “What you want to force me to believe.”

  • Bill D. Burger

    I almost said off topic…but Betty Bowers is NEVER off topic:

    https://twitter.com/BettyBowers/status/938236454257426432

    Beware these loud mouthed ‘men of gawwd’ for they are so often the biggest fucking hypocrites around. They are like a rowdy child who farts and yells, first, “Ewwww…..something stinks.”

    • Dept. of Space Tacos

      i’m generally skeptical of cops, but based on those excerpts – that cop is fucking awesome.

      • Shan

        Seriously, he was. I never would have thought I’d enjoy hearing one threaten to cuff someone and put them in the back of the car.

        Hell, as a cop, I’d have done it just because of the T-shirt.

        • Dept. of Space Tacos

          right?
          And I love the guy’s defense…I didn’t know he wasn’t seventeen…can you prove to me he’s seventeen.

          This ain’t fox news dipshit! That cop (likely) knows what he’s doing.

      • YoBunnyBunny

        “Whatever your doing is a bad fucking idea.”

        He ain’t never lied, LOL!

  • Resistance Fighter Astraea
    • YoBunnyBunny

      That’s funny cuz it’s true LOL

      Also too, Muslims have banging halal, so why the hell would anybody ask them to change that?

    • OutOfOrbit

      what do you know about this “unmarried couples” in motel rooms thing? it sounds fun

    • Meccalopolis

      get out of my bloody Optimo!

    • Ninja0980

      Not to mention that in the few cases they haven’t, they’ve been sued as well and lost when they tried to use the same argument the baker is making.
      But you can’t tell that to the bigots since it would ruin their Christians are being targeted garbage.

  • Bill D. Burger
    • What I’ve always found is that the more they try to tell you what gay people are doing in their bedrooms, the higher the likelihood that they’re closeted. (Hi, TLM!)

      • eyelashviper

        It’s called “reaction formation”, a defense mechanism to suppress feelings and behavior that are very real, but too frightening to acknowledge.

    • eyelashviper

      I miss Hitchens, he never minced a word.

      • Rags

        But as is sadly often the case, he had to throw a racist clanger in there

  • Baconzhurtzin’

    They act like they are baking a cake of a giant cock getting sucked off by St Paul.

    It’s a fucking cake people. BAKE IT FOR THE FAGS ALREADY.

    • paxpax

      I want that cake

    • Jeffery Campbell

      I get what you are going for here, but please don’t use that word.

  • Bill D. Burger
  • OrG

    If you stop for red lights you are tacitly acknowledging that the government CAN tell you what to do.
    Checkmate wingnuts.

    • Non-Threatening Ron

      You do know you’ve just given them the idea they don’t have to stop at red nights, right?

      • DT

        I hope they get t-boned by a semi full of votes.

    • ResistanceFictionista blondeiq

      Ain’t nothin’ in da bibel ’bout no traffic signals. My ass and I are good with that.

  • Bill D. Burger
    • yyyaz

      Bill, I hope everyone who sees this pauses for just a moment to think about the adults vomiting on their shoes reflexively when looking at the bottom panel due to having been one of those kids. It is the take that keeps on taking — for life. /s

  • Bill D. Burger
    • The Militant Homosexual Agenda

      And after you show me where Santa Claus, Rudolph and Frosty the Snowman are mentioned in the Bible.

  • Sophia

    Thanks Robyn. Once again you have put to words exactly what I’m thinking.

  • Non-Threatening Ron

    They’re perfectly happy to follow the law. As long as the law goes back to saying those icky gays are unpeople. the way it used to.

  • NastyBossetti

    What do you mean a gay wedding cake is the same as a straight wedding cake? Surely, you have to use different, gayer, ingredients to make the cake gay. And buying gay cake ingredients is a one-way ticket to eternal damnation.

  • Ilgattomorte

    The X factor here, as it is so often, is religion. If you refuse to sell to a, let’s say, minority couple, then you are just a bigot and you are wrong and evil. If you refuse a gay couple, well then, God is the bigot and you’re just following orders.

    I’ve often wondered, why in these cases, we can’t look at the defendant’s entire history of religious beliefs. If they are fine with selling to other abominations, like divorced couples, non-believers and those who plan to serve a cream sauce on top of the prime rib, then how can they claim selling to a gay couple endangers their very soul?

    If they are going to hell anyway, then making a gay cake is just a bigoted choice at that point. Isn’t it?

    • Marion in Savannah

      “serve a cream sauce on top of the prime rib” (or cook it until well done)

      Great. There went breakfast, and there won’t be any lunch. Dinner may be out too.

      • BearDeLaOursistance

        Not for Donald! Donny likes it. He likes everything! Except taco trucks.

    • Persistent Tennessee Rain

      Don’t even get them started on the customers entering their shop wearing a mix of fibers!

      • Cornelius Fussbudget

        Or a tan suit.

  • capnkrunch

    It’s not hard to point out the issues with the anti-gay arguments. And I think subconsciously they realize this because they will just refuse to engage when asked difficult questions. For example, “would you be OK with a Muslim baker refusing to bake you a wedding cake because you’re Christian?” I have literally never gotten a straight yes/no or any answer really to this question.

    The interracial question is even trickier for them because a lot of the religious nuts really do think they should be allowed to refuse those but know they can’t say that out loud. In my experience if you ask “would it be OK to refuse to bake an interracial couple a cake because you don’t believe interracial marriage is OK?” it is just straight up ignored. They won’t even acknowledge that you asked a question.

    Another one is pointing out that they are literally using the same arguments that were used to justify slavery (and all the other stuff that Robyn listed). Generally I hear “this is different.” Because why? “Reasons.” Religion always seems to be the last bastion of those opposing progress. History repeats itself.

    • DT

      Oh, I get “of course, why would I force my religion on him?!” Because they KNOW it’s purely hypothetical and they would never ha e to rely on an icky mooslem for anything.

  • spangled

    bought gift card sleeves for my store today that say “Happy Holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas”. Can y’all believe all this christianist genocide I’m doing?

    (actually I’m just cheap and don’t want to buy several variations of sleeve)

  • Msgr_MΩment

    Dear Gheyness Recruitment Magazine Forum,

    I certainly never thought I’d be writing to you guys, but just last week, this very attractive-looking man came into the store, asking me to bake a cake…

  • Parakeetist

    Where does it stop? Next it’ll be the bus drivers. “I can’t take you to work. You’re gay.” Or the teachers. “Get out of my class. You’re gay.” Or the doctors and the police and the firefighters. “You’re gay.” Or they won’t let you have a job. Then people will die! Or at the very least, become poor and be on the dole! You do not get to wipe somebody out of existence just because they’re not like you. If they only mess with adults, and they don’t hurt people, leave them the fuck alone.

  • TakingAmes

    Maybe it’s just the photo of that guy surrounded by wedding cakes, but methinks he doth protest too much. I also would really like all same sex couples for whom these bigots have unknowingly provided wedding services to step forward. *asploding heads everywhere!*

  • James Baskin

    The argument that Phillips is opposed to gay marriage because it is a sin is BS². What almost everyone is failing to recognize here is that Phillips bakes cakes for sinners EVERY FUCKING TIME HE BAKES A FUCKING cake.

    This is NOT about religious freedom, it is about the freedom to discriminate against those you hate.

    • Toomush_Inferesistance

      Well, he certainly should be requiring proof of virginity for any couple requesting a wedding cake. That’s just simple logic….

  • GlazedHaim

    Life begins at confection

  • BearDeLaOursistance

    I’m worried this kind of shit might start intersecting with Hobby Lobby, and then we get an army of Christian Scientist pharmacists refusing to sell us insulin.

  • An Outhouse for the résistance

    Surprisingly, from a George Will column last Sunday:

    “1) Phillips was neither asked nor required to attend, let alone participate in, the wedding. 2) Same-sex marriage was not yet legal in Colorado, so Craig and Mullins were to be married in Massachusetts.
    3) The cake was for a subsequent reception in Denver.

    But even if the cake were to have been consumed at a wedding, Phillips’s creation of the cake before the ceremony would not have constituted participation in any meaningful sense.”

    Fake Cristians are liars and bigots.

    • mailman27

      George Will and his pals are looking around at the political hellscape they helped to create, and feeling a twinge of conscience. Too late, get fucked.

  • Lefty Wright

    I wonder if his head would explode if he had a call in order on a wedding cake for Chris and Pat.

    • Jeffery Campbell

      Listen, if you sent in the “Chris and Pat” that I know, he would pee his f’ing pants. They are some kind of butch and always spoiling for a fight.

    • Flashman

      And Terry.

  • An Outhouse for the résistance

    If making a cake counts as participating in a wedding, are all bakers bigamists?

  • Ray in VT

    Why do those pesky gehys expect to get served at businesses like other people? They should be cool with being discriminated against, say the usual crew of right wing dopes.

  • Blanche Beecham

    I’d eat some gay wedding cake right about now. For freedom.

    • Jeffery Campbell

      Because it would be very pretty, very tasteful, and super DELICIOUS. Because we stir it up with just enough salty, bigot, tears, to make it so.

    • IdRatherBeDancing

      sadly its just like a straight wedding cake — I mean you wont shit rainbow and glitter if you eat a gay cake — sorry to be the messenger of bad news

  • Bitter Scribe

    Speaking of Nazis, one strawman argument that Robyn didn’t address* is, “What if a Nazi asked a Jewish baker to make a swastika cake huh huh huh?” The answer to that is, “Gays are a protected class under the law that this guy violated. Get back to us when any government designates Nazis that way.”

    *That’s not a criticism of Robyn’s typically excellent post. Trying to address all their ridiculous arguments is like trying to stomp on every rat at a landfill.

    • Flashman

      Don’t give Trump ideas, please.

  • Me not sure

    All legal American marriages are civil ceremonies whether performed by glergyman or not. Any religious meaning is purely in the minds of the participants. The license is granted by the state and the phrase “by the power granted me by the state of ______ I now declare you _______” is an admission by the officiating person that the power to marry is an act of grace by the state in allowing a non-government official to perform such rites. Now, let’s have cake.

    • SisterArtemis

      Those ones we like, right?

  • JordanLanham

    If the Supreme Ct. holds that selling a wedding cake constitutes a baker’s “participation” in a marriage that may contradict the baker’s morality, will gun dealers be held to participate in the commission of crimes involving the firearms they sell? ..I mean, religious conservatives aren’t hypocrites, right?

    • IdRatherBeDancing

      It is a bit of a slippery slope that could hilariuosly backfire

  • IdRatherBeDancing

    Ya, I got into with some Cathloic girl on the Tweeter who just thought that this baker was well in his rights — cause Levitucus I guess — So, I said i thought I’d open a bakery and put a big NO CATHOLICS sign in the window cause I have conscientious scruples against supporting institutionalized pedofilia — hoooo boy, she thought I only saw the bad in people :) I said I thought new Pope was groovy nonetheless.

  • ken_kukec

    “Ronn Blitzer (how is that not a gay porn name?) ”

    Some Donner-on-Blitzer action?

    ‘Tis the season.

    • BearDeLaOursistance

      Don we now our gay apparel. If only to strip it off later…

  • IdRatherBeDancing

    Ya also too was the specious argument about, well next thing a Christian book store owner will be forced to sell gay porn — (hmmm wonder why he went there, as if all us homos dance in nothing but our jockstraps to disco beats — er, well that is something I actually will be doing Saturday night at a Dirty Santa dance — but I digress)
    To which I replied — Ya I often go to my car mechanic and demand he fix my refrigerator. EYE FUCKING ROLL

    • Rags

      Is a good tuneup a work of art?

  • WotsAllThisThen

    I heard if you bake a gay wedding cake it makes you gay, then you have to go have gay sex in a seedy motel to reverse the gay polarity and make you straight again.

    • Anne Of Green Bagels

      while wearing a “make me a sammich”-t-shirt?

      • Earl Of Sammich

        Hey, I resemble that remark.

  • Scrofula

    If I thought there was even a hint of sincerity to the religious aspect, I would maybe pretend to have some sympathy (I’m sure bakery bigots NEVER make a cake for a 2nd wedding).

    • Querolous

      In certain parts of Utah the 1st wife would bake the cake.

  • Anne Of Green Bagels

    okay, fine. I’m just gonna declare my homosexuality a religion then. problem solved,

    • The Wanderer

      The Church of the Universal Inseminator?

      • Anne Of Green Bagels

        back door preachers.

        • Earl Of Sammich

          Would that be considered a snake handling church?

          • Anne Of Green Bagels

            yes. in fact, that’s one of the main requirements for joining.

          • javadavis

            Hey! What about the cult of Lesbos? Or will that be a different religion rather than, say, a different denomination?

          • Anne Of Green Bagels

            the more, the merrier. different denomination should work.

      • ImGoingBacon

        Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence on line 1

        • AmazingProfessionalCrastinator

          I drove from Columbus, Ohio to St. Pete’s, FL in the early 90’s for vacation. I had put signs in the rear side windows that said “St. Sappho’s Mobile Convent & Auto Repair”.

  • ken_kukec

    Maybe John Hawkes can play Jack Phillips in the biopic?

    • javadavis

      D’nesh D’souza will surely direct.

  • Micky9finger

    According to the law splainer i read yesterday the case is based on free speech as it applies to art expression. A wedding cake ( like this guy makes) is creative art and to force the artist to do his art for a gay wedding is forcing him to say something he doesnt want to say. I.e support gay wedding.
    The legal argument is difficult for me to understand but you should remember all the free speach rulings from the court.
    Evidently free speech has a special place because of the 1st (?)amendment. The free speach issue allows the conservative court to rule for the baker because free speech and not discrimination against gays.

    • SisterArtemis

      I just posted my own take on this stuff from a tattoo artist perspective; yes I have free speech as an artist, no I can’t selectively apply it to one customer and not another because they make me feel “icky.”

      • Micky9finger

        Well yes but you will not tattoo swastikas. Rightfully so.
        Also im not defending the cake guy; im pondering the legal arguments to the SCOTUS. And slightly depressed by the composition and possible outcome of the suit.
        I support free speach and think a business doing public business cannot discriminate against a class of people.

    • IdRatherBeDancing

      Yes, it gets down to — is any old cake an artistic expression or just utilitarian — as opposed to a lets say a cake that took some sculptural form — does anyone know what this damn cake was supposed to look like? Frankly, if all this wedding stuff is artistic, and this cake douche wins, gay folk who work inthe wedding industry (and there are legions of them) should not, as a matter of artistic expression, not do straight weddings — all those updo’s not done, dresses not designed, photos not snapped, food not catered, songs not sung, parties not planned — let them suck on it!

      • Micky9finger

        Yes this is thorny. By the artistic argument it seems they could refuse a straight wedding if they felt by doing one they were being forced, against their beliefs, that straight weddings were bad. Who thinks that? So not everybody will support this boycott because they are in business. And probably dont give a fuck. Which brings us to the gay baker. Why not just go elsewhere? Of course that opens another can of worms.

        • javadavis

          Why not just go elsewhere and avoid the baker who wants to pick and choose his customers? That would be a boycott, not refusing to do work for mainstream groups. IOW, said boycott would be up to customers, not up to businesses that provide wedding services.
          In fact, if this is the baker I remember reading about, they did suffer a loss of business because of a sort of wildcat boycott of their business and whined publicly about that fact. “Oh, how can these people refuse to buy the beautiful cakes I bake just because I refused to bake one for a couple I didn’t approve of?!” or similar. The cognitive dissonance was achingly stupid.

    • toughsister

      The “art” issue is pure bullshit. A baker does not bake cakes in order to exhibit them in a gallery or sell to a collector. He bakes them to sell them to customers who will eat them, digest them and eventually defecate them. To me, that’s no different from a supermarket refusing to sell a can of beans to a gay couple.

    • Lily412

      The product being sold is irrelevant in my opinion. They are discriminating. They even said the reason is because they’re gay. It could be a painting or a pipe wrench. They are in the wrong.

    • He has the free speech to bake wedding cakes for all or for one. It is not free speech to discriminate based on sexual orientation

    • Jezzam

      If the cake order required the baker to write ‘i support gay marriage’ sign or business logo and advertise that cake on his personal or business website, or in a cake portfolio, he might have a case about speech.

  • Little Lulu Ω

    Robyn, you’re amazing. Each of your posts is better than the previous one. I love that you’re here and always look forward to your excellent work. ❤️❤️❤️

  • SisterArtemis

    I have a tangential interest in all this stuff, because in our tattoo studio, there are certain images we will not tattoo (swastikas, other hate-group stuff, and a few other things), plus we can turn down tattoos any time we think it would reflect poorly on us or our studio.

    I raised this a few months ago here in the non-commenting sector of Wonkette, and it was pointed out to me that it’s a consistent policy that would presumably not violate the law: we will not (for example) tattoo a swastika on ANYONE, bigot or otherwise, and we will tattoo other kinds of imagery on pretty much anyone who is of age, sober, etc. regardless of whether they are a tiki-torch waving Nazi or not. Since the policy is broadly applied without regard to whatever groups the customer is a member of, it’s all good under the law.

    Btw, I do occasionally get a request to do a swastika in the pre-Nazi tradition (the symbol has appeared in many cultures going back thousands of years, but without the meaning it acquired under Hitler) and politely explain we don’t do them. Have never gotten flack for it, though it’s sparked a few interesting discussions about cooptation of imagery, bigotry, and hate groups.

    • dshwa

      You’ve got the point down exactly. It’s very simple, if you provide a service for one person, you have to provide it for everyone. If you sell one person a wedding cake, you have to sell them to everyone. If you would sell a penis cake for a bachelorette party, you have to sell one to anyone who asks. If you would refuse to sell one to a bachelorette party, you can refuse to sell one to anyone else. It’s not rocket surgery.

    • SisterArtemis

      Upon reviewing my closing sentence there, I’m feeling like I need a weaponized Oxford comma or something. Or maybe just rearrange the items on that list…. “discussions about cooptation of imagery, bigotry, and hate groups, and cooptation of imagery.”

      don’t want any cooptation of bigotry goin’ on….

      • toughsister

        How do you do underlines or strikethrough type? Also bold and italic?

        • SisterArtemis

          the basic idea is to sandwich the style name between angle brackets – “”. Then to turn it off, you put a slash “/” before the style name. I’m going to use square brackets below, or it will just format the text instead of showing how it’s done.

          Bold: [b] and [/b]
          Italic: [i]
          Underline: [u]
          strikethrough: [s]

          there are a bunch of others that you can do, like:
          spoiler: hover over the blocked text to see it: [spoiler]
          imagine incredible plot reveal here
          and you can block quote too with [blockquote]

          How do you do underlines or strikethrough type? Also bold and italic?

          • javadavis

            Thanks.

    • anon_the_great

      Tibetan and Hopi swastikas are what DIY tats are for.

      • SisterArtemis

        Hmmmm…. not sure I agree with you there (not a fan of the DIY approach in tattooing cuz germs etc) but I do know tattooists who will do the imagery when it’s in that mode. My boss has made the choice to not have them going out of the shop at all, because of the small number of folks who know the longer history.

        • javadavis

          I had a boss who was from India. He may have been Hindu? Anyway, to him the swastika was a semi-religious symbol of peace and happiness and he also recommended using it as a design tool, sort of like Feng Shui, as a way to choose significant design elements.
          But he just wore a bracelet with swastika beads – no tattoos.

    • JordanLanham

      It is much easier to demonstrate that a tattoo artist’s work constitutes a first amendment protected expression than to demonstrate that a baker’s cake –a food to be eaten– rises (no pun) to that same creative level of protected expression. The homophobic baker’s lawyers are attempting to convince the Supreme Ctr. judges that cake creations are a work of personal art and so it is unconstitutional for Colorado’s public accommodation statute to require a “cake artist” to create art that defies his personal moral beliefs. They may likely fail to do this.

      A tattoo artist, on the other hand, would have a much stronger case than the baker. So however the court decides I would not expect tattoo artists can be forced by public accommodation statutes to create CUSTOM tattoos that contradict the tattoo artist’s personal morality.

      However, if your shop advertised a board of non-custom flash work, you would be required to provide those tattoo options to any customers regardless of their race, religion, gender, etc. status.

      Basically, the law does not force any public accommodation to create a whole new product that it does not already promote or make available to other members of the public. If the court rules for the gay couple, this does NOT mean that Muslim bakeries will be forced to make channakah cookies, and Jewish bakeries forced to put swastikas on cakes, and that steak houses will be forced to serve vegan dishes, and etc. etc., since presumably those entities do not already offer such products to ANY customers.

      • Rags

        A tat is a choice. Gay is not despite what R’s say.

    • Cucker “Dick” Tarlson

      You can refuse a requested service to an individual for reasons of risks if illegality, public health, and disorderly conduct, to name a few. In your shop you may also maintain a policy of regulating what you can and will offer to do for a customer based on their individual request for your services. It’s the same as a contractor who will put up siding, but will not work on a customer’s roof if the job is beyond their ability or their list of services provided. You can accept or deny a request based on the individual’s behavior, in the same way you’d refuse service to an angry drunk in your bar or a shirtless guy who wants to dine in your four-star restaurant.

      That said, here’s where the bigot baker is WRONG. You can’t deny service to people based on their status as a member of a class that’s protected by law from discrimination. These classes include race, ethnicity, sex, age, religion, or disability. And in Colorado, sexual orientation is also considered a protected class.

      In other words, it doesn’t mean shit what your church tells you. You leave that shit In the parking lot, and you follow the goddamn law.

  • mary5920

    The baker seems a bit paranoid to me. Maybe he thinks the cake baking will turn him gay? That he’ll suddenly have a craving for rainbow flags, and will uncontrollably dance with them in his bakery?

    • Johnatx

      The bake shop owner is a tool being used by right wingers – dominionists, in this case. Attorneys working for groups such as the Liberty Foundation look for cases like this. They want to ultimately remove from same-sex couples all of the rights and benefits that heterosexual couples have. They pulled the same shit here in Texas – sued the City of Houston to stop providing benefits to same-sex spouses of city employees.

      • Résistance Land Shark Ω

        And they lost, if I recall correctly …

        • toughsister

          Fortunately..

    • SisterArtemis

      I fully support the right of heterosexual cake bakers to crave rainbow flags and dance uncontrollably. Probably would be good for them, actually.

      • Rags

        Bake cakes like nobody’s watching.

        • SisterArtemis

          Word.

    • anon_the_great

      Or take it up the butt and find out he loves it

      • toughsister

        Many publicly outspoken homophobes do.

      • Kip TW

        That’s why they have an invisible God with a tape recorder and one of those Dream Viewers from that Mexican Santa Claus movie, listening around the clock to every thought they have.

        If it wasn’t for the constant knowledge they have of this total surveillance, they just know they’d be robbing and killing and raping and murdering and plundering, and—worst of all—entering into a loving relationship with someone of the wrong gender!

        And, since they don’t really have that good an imagination, they believe that everybody else is exactly the same way: just as bad as them, only for some reason, we disregarded the imaginary voice’s warning about the imaginary recorder, and it’s as much as they can do not to imagine the details of what they suppose we do in our own homes.

        Because they’re so morally superior to us, you see.

  • Earl Of Sammich

    Haven’t any of these people been to a wedding? All weddings are gay.

  • toughsister

    Theocracy began when some dipshit said “my religion puts me above the law”. The cours’ acquiescence to that crap made in effect this country a theocracy. Here,it’s a lousy wedding cake. But how many children have DIED because of their parents’ shitty religion preventing them to providing life-saving medical care? How does the complacency of the courts, all too willing to sacrifice a child’s life to the fucking “freedom of religion” clause of the 1st Amendment, make this country NOT a theocracy? How is that different from the ancient Phoenician practice to throw their first-born in a blazing furnace to the Baal, in order to curry the god’s favor?

  • mailman27

    Won’t be the first and definitely won’t be the last to say so, but Ms. Pennachia is so on point, and this piece is so well written that I felt compelled to kiss a little ass. Brava!!

  • Trump’s Potemkin Village

    Jesus H. Roosevelt Christ on a Bakery Cake this is ridiculous.

  • Octavia Bratenpfeffer

    Ugh. We are going through this in Australia too, as parliament (probably today) passes gay marriage. Don’t think the conservatives have yet unearthed any living breathing homophobic florists or cake decorators to ‘protect’ here though.

  • Hesster

    Reminds me of that wonderful Nazi couple a few years back who named their kid Adolph with the middle name Hitler and tried to have the name put on a birthday cake.

  • dgm

    It seems to me that the simple argument is that while this man has the right to his religious beliefs, he has no constitutional right to sell wedding cakes. If he feels that his beliefs don’t allow him to do certain things, it’s up to him to arrange his life so he won’t be required by law to do those things. It’s not about freedom of expression, either. He is free to make all the wedding cakes he wants and even free to give them to whoever he likes. If he wants to sell them but the law requires him to sell to anyone who wants one, he has to decide what is more important to him: his beliefs or selling wedding cakes. It is not incumbent on the government to make exceptions so he can do whatever he wants but only have to obey the laws he believes in. People seem to think that the right to believe as they choose confers the additional right to never be inconvenienced for holding those beliefs.

    • phoenix00

      Nazi-ism = white power = the power to impose their so-called superiority on others.

    • Invisible Bunyip

      That is one of the best descriptions of the situation that I have ever heard.

  • Andy

    A message from your friends at Aperture Laboratories:
    The cake is a lie.

  • Molon Labe

    Why would anyone want to support a business that was politically contrary to themselves? If a white supremacist refused to sell you a sandwich are you going to take the white supremacist to court to force them to sell you a sandwich? If you answered “yes” then please explain why the fuck you are going to a white supremacist’s sandwich shop?

    Vote with your dollars, don’t fund the enemy. This is basic stuff, 101 level. The people behind the “cake controversy” have no illusions about this being about gay rights.

    • Heyzeus Ahchay

      Maybe because no one puts a sign in the window of his or her business that states “I’m a white supremacist. Buy at your own risk.” Maybe the gay guys went to a cake shop that they thought sold nice cakes, and they asked to buy one. And the bigot behind the counter said, “Well, I’d sell you any of them if you weren’t gay guys. But you are. And I don’t think Jesus likes gay guys, because my lying pastor tells me so and Faux news tells me I shouldn’t, and because Molon Labe will support my position, so I think I can get a lot of publicity for my cake shop if I don’t sell you a cake and I tell everybody about it, and maybe the other bigots will set up a Gofundme account and I’ll make more money for doing nothing rather than by selling you a cake I’d gladly sell to a prostitute or a killer or a drug dealer, but I won’t sell to you.” This is basic 101-level stuff. The guy behind the cake shop has no illusions about this being about gay rights. It’s about being an asshole and getting lots of publicity while pretending to be some kind of heroic Christian when in reality he’s a stinking hypocrite. Jesus didn’t say, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, unless their fucking gay.”

      • Molon Labe

        The cake shop asshole isn’t the one who publicized this.

        Your example is moot because there is no “sign in the window” needed. Once you know the ideology of the business person (as with the cake) thats when you take your dolla-dolla-bills elsewhere.

        What you are telling me is that if you unknowingly walked in to white supremacist sandwich shop and ordered a sloppy-joe and the skinhead behind the counter said he didn’t want to make whoever-you-are (because of, whoever-you-are) a sloppy-joe and also by-the-way “sieg Heil” & “white power” you would be like “I still want that sloppy-joe”.

        • Sally Eckhoff

          I totally want that sign: “we don’t serve queers.” Because I’d cross the street rather than even walk by the place.
          The couple would already have been married by the time the man made the cake. It was just for a reception.
          The weirdest thing about bigots is, they’re not too bright.

        • Odd Jørgensen

          Yeah! Why not just leave the asshole bigots alone, no need to let Joe Public know what sort of cretin runs said shop. Do you think sportsball players should protest injustice on their own time too, preferably quietly at home?

          • Molon Labe

            Honestly, I think there is something to having the bigots be open about who they are. Its probably the most effective way for “Joe Public” to know what kind of cretins they are. There is a reason the KKK covered their faces.

            If by “leave the asshole bigots alone”, you mean not patronizing their business, then yes.

        • sgt. jmk of the résistance

          So you’re arguing that anti-discrimination laws covering businesses should all be eliminated, and targeted minorities should just patronize establishments where their kind is welcome?

          You seem nice.

          • Molon Labe

            No, people should be able to patronize whatever businesses they choose.

            However, there isn’t a law that can be written that will convert someone’s ideology. The baker is bigoted against same sex marriage. If you pass a law that says he has to make cakes for gay weddings, he will still be a bigot. Thats not going to change.

            I am not arguing anyone’s civil rights should be eliminated. I am not even arguing that new laws protecting civil rights shouldn’t be created.

            I choose not to patronize businesses that are politically adjacent to me (best I can). I do know of a couple local establishments operated by bigots and I don’t go to them. Just as I suspect the majority of minorities wouldn’t want to patronize a business owned by someone who is bigoted against them.

            So, to reiterate the original point, (whether or not there is a relevant anti-discrimination law) “Why would anyone want to support a business that was politically contrary to themselves?”

          • sgt. jmk of the résistance

            No one is looking to use the law to “convert someone’s ideology.” They’re expecting people to obey the law that puts everyone on an equal footing.

            You don’t get to choose the laws you obey.

            What you’re describing is self-policed Jim Crow. No thanks.

  • Jezzam

    Selling food to the gays wouldn’t inhibit dude’s ability to pray, get baptised, get married to a woman, breed (ew), go to church, build a church, minister or proselytize etc. The only individual religious freedom he suffered was deciding not to reap and sow the benefits of gay cake sales. The people crying free speech need to draw a line. If I make a mustard smiley in a sandwich smash and eat the fucker it all goes to the same place. Cant believe the supreme justices cared to listen to this asshole. Daytime tv judges must’ve been booked

    • phoenix00

      Dead-Scalia, Gorsuch, and Thomas, otoh…….

  • Mike Steele

    Lordy, Delmarva is suddenly trendy! Cake story is front page on our regional paper – no doubt, because tourism (and, of late, gay marriage tourism) is YUUUGE business down here these days. Two things come to mind for Lady MS. First, as I write custom poetry for special occasions, was recently tasked by a hetero friend familiar with my work to do a rehearsal dinner toast for my first gay marriage. It was simple. Gave client same free consult as anyone else, got the 411 on the couple, composed a ditty that incorporated a host of personal, funny and affectionate references, aligned it in decorative font and printed it on frameable cardstock. Client read it at rehearsal dinner, and gave it (framed) as her wedding gift; it was a hit, check cleared the bank & everyone was pleased. Secondly, can recall when businesses used to deny service to blahs, for similar ‘personal issues’. Smart folks on the eastern shore realized that all money was green, and wisely decided to serve all comers. Thus endeth, by virtue of the free market, many vestiges of discrimination. Rampant greed will always prevail, and fools like the Baker Bigot will eventually be hoisted on their own foolish petard. Speak truth to stupidity w/your wallets!

  • pixeloid

    “It is not, however, true that anyone is going around saying ‘obviously religious people are evil.'”

    Actually, I say that, though I’m referring to a very specific subset of religious people: evangelicals, Wahhabis, Haredi, and other fundies.

  • Zyxomma

    All very well stated, Robyn. However, I haven’t much hope for this particular SCOTUS, what with Goresuck’s stolen seat.

  • RugzYaBurnt

    Besides the already-surreal spectacle of the Supremes nattering on about fucking cakes in court, I can’t get over the hairsplitting about what a baker may or may not be required to write on a cake and whether putting text or a picture on a cake constitutes “expression.” I have never, ever seen a wedding cake with either pictures or script on it, *because wedding cake is for weddings and not a child’s birthday party.*

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