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At a press conference in Japan, Donald Trump explained that Sunday’s deadly shooting at a Texas church, which left 26 people dead and at least 20 others injured, wasn’t really about guns, because shootings are never about guns, what are you, crazy? Probably you are, because this shooting was about mental health, the sociopath in chief declared, based on no evidence that has been reported by police.

I think that mental health is your problem here. Based on preliminary reports, a very deranged individual, a lot of problems for a long period of time. We have a lot of mental health problems in our country, as do other countries. But this isn’t a guns situation.

The Washington Post, always trying to undercut our president, who knows stuff real good, pointed out that while the shooter, Devin Kelley, 26, had been court-martialed in 2012 for domestic violence against his wife and child, and subsequently other-than-honorably discharged from the Air Force in 2014, “the full mental state of Kelley has yet to be determined.”

Fortunately, that criminal history was enough for Trump to reach a diagnosis, explaining, “This is a mental health problem at the highest level.”

Trump also made it clear that the nation’s blessed abundance of guns actually helped the situation a whole lot, at least after the first 26 dead and 20 injured had had bullets pumped into them:

Fortunately, somebody grabbed his own rifle and engaged the gunman, somebody else had a gun that was shooting in the opposition direction. Otherwise, it wouldn’t have been as bad as it was, it would have been much worse.

And it is true that Kelley apparently was confronted by two other people with guns, although the timeline isn’t 100% clear. CNN reported that he was interrupted by a “local resident” who

grabbed his own rifle and engaged the gunman, said Freeman Martin, the regional director of the Texas Department of Public Safety.

“The suspect dropped his rifle, which was a Ruger AR assault-type rifle and fled from the church,” Martin said.

A witness to the exchange of fire between Kelley and the resident then asked the resident to get in his truck, after which they chased Kelley for 11 miles until Kelley crashed his SUV.

However, a report by Reuters has a slightly different account of when the residents engaged Kelley:

After he left the church, two local residents, at least one of whom was armed, chased him in their vehicles and exchanged gunfire, and Kelley crashed his car and shot himself to death, Wilson County Sheriff Joe Tackitt told CBS News in an interview on Monday morning.

That could just be a difference in phrasing, but the Reuters report doesn’t include any mention of the local resident making Kelley drop his rifle. In any case, after Kelley shot more than 40 people, the armed locals definitely kept him from shooting more, so that clearly means we all need more guns.

As for all the mental illness America has a problem with, we should note that Donald Trump has consistently backed gutting Obamacare or allowing health insurance that doesn’t cover expensive luxuries like mental health treatment, and that one of Trump’s first acts in office was to roll back an Obama rule barring gun sales to people who had been declared mentally unfit to manage their own affairs. That almost certainly wouldn’t have applied to Kelley, who appears to have been a garden-variety domestic abuser who then goes on to commit mass murder. Reuters noted that Kelley’s former spouse’s parents worshiped at the Baptist church he attacked, although they were not in attendance yesterday.

If it’s too soon to talk about guns, we’d like to know whether it’s also too soon to talk about domestic violence. Perhaps we could talk about that?

You have our permission to skip today’s tithe to Wonkette and throw some money at Gabby Giffords’s Americans for Responsible Solutions, Moms Demand Action, and the Brady Campaign To Prevent Gun Violence. Be safe.

[WaPo / USA Today on Twitter / Reuters / CNN / NPR]

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  • lowenufc

    If anyone knows about mental health issues, it’s Trump. He’s got them in spades.

  • weejee

    Now if there were pill boxes with machine guns and RPGs in each and every public building and street corner we would be saved. Hallelujah!

  • jaspersdad

    If more guns made the country safer, the US would be the safest country in the world.

    • ArgieBargie

      Are you saying you would NOT feel a lot safer if we had more even more untrained, heavily-armed John Wayne-wannabes?

      • FlemmishSpy

        More like Barney Fifes who think they’re Dirty Harry.

        • Paul

          Perfect.

    • OrG

      Somalia libelz!

    • coozledad

      In many ways we’ve eclipsed the depths of the standard of living in the world’s poorest shitholes.
      And now we’ve got a blowhard leader with a murderous itch to complement our new status.

      We have nobody to thank for this but white people.

    • ANNG14

      Here is a fact that Trump won’t like:
      A 2013 study published by the American Journal of Public Health found that “states with higher rates of gun ownership had disproportionately large numbers of deaths from firearm-related homicides.”
      Is that saying states with higher rates of gun ownership have more mentally ill people?

  • susan_g

    Let’s see…curing mental illness or prohibiting weapons designed for combat–which would be easier? Trick question, more guns would solve everything.

    • 🍁 Girl Guide Salute 🖖🏻

      Well, there’s always a Smith & Wesson DIY lobotomy…

  • memzilla Ω
    • laughingnome

      This guy really understood America.

  • ArgieBargie
  • Joe Beese

    I’m trying not to be “elite” about this, but is taking one’s rifle to church A Thing?

    • UncleTravelingMatt

      I imagine rural Texas is much like rural Idaho — every pickup truck has a small arsenal hanging in the rear window at all times, in the event the driver is ambushed by deer.

      • Covfefe

        In rural Michigan, deer prefer motorcycles to pickup trucks. Odds are better.

    • OrG

      Texas.

    • cmd resistor

      As best I can tell the good guy(s) with a gun were not attending church but were nearby, close enough to run over there?

  • Michael R

    Fox News host says church is the best place to get shot

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEExlz7YktI&feature=youtu.be

    • puredog

      I think I’d rather get shot at a trauma center, if I get to pick.

      • Lascauxcaveman

        Oooh, they did one on Grey’s Anatomy. Season four, I think? Anyway, mixed results :)

    • wide_stance_hubby

      If they were REALLY fair and balanced, they’d let us know where the Best Place To Get Stabbed 2017 is. I, for one, do not want to die in last year’s venue.

    • Anna Rompage

      Those people are with the lord now, and experiencing eternity with no more suffering, and no more sadness…

      The best thing about being killed in your church is that both the easter bunny, and santa claus, escort you to the pearly gates!

    • Old town Urbandale

      Of course! They won’t have to move the body for the funeral!

      • coozledad

        They have the mindset of toothless medieval peasants.

    • coozledad

      But the most likely place to get shot is someplace white nationalists or fundies keep being told to shoot up, like a mosque, a synagogue, a Unitarian church, a yoga class, an Indian restaurant, a Buddhist gathering, college campuses… in short, among the few remaining places I might choose to go.

    • Christopher Smith

      Is this bitch attempting to become the next Tamale Liarin? The stupid burns, corrodes, and decimates.

    • doktorzoom

      If You Got Shot To Death Here, You’d Already Be In Heaven!

  • Mavenmaven

    Trump doesn’t care, rich people don’t go to those kinds of churches.

  • Bub, the cynical zombie

    “Kinda nuts” is classic understatement.

    https://twitter.com/KFILE/status/927536213803847681

    • spangled

      the standards of american political discourse will never recover from the trump presidency

      • 🍁 Girl Guide Salute 🖖🏻

        You can thank the Rooskies bigly for that also too. They pushed the most ludicrous tabloid alien-baby bullshit on the dumbest group of people (Americans), who spread it like wildfire around the digital reality distortion field because they actually believed it. I read somewhere that they actually were willing to make fake sex tapes with actors playing politicians (Hillary in particular, but Obama also too) — both to disinfo the pee-pee dossier about Trump, and also to force the accused into a guilty-and-never-proven-innocent situation of having to deny fake news that’s already accepted as fact among the populace. Not just that, but poisoning the well and crying wolf so that future accusations (probably against Russian politicians) would get dismissed as fake news once the public had become, er, “saturated” by the whole thing. We’re living in a Potemkin village simulation sponsored by the Weekly World News.

      • BlissfulScribbler

        They were heading this way for years.

    • jesterpunk

      If Hillary murdered everyone who crossed her why are the Trump family and Anthony Weiner still alive?

      • tomamitai

        Why she didn’t kill Bill for being the biggest albatross around her neck is also quite mysterious.

        • cmd resistor

          No,no, according to my brother she got where she is on BILL’s coattails. Also, too, she was an enabler.

        • Querolous

          Bill is safe as long as she doesn’t know where he hid the shovel with her fingerprints on it.

      • BlissfulScribbler

        Fascism 101: One’s enemies are simultaneously evil geniuses and cripplingly weak/incompetent.

        American conservatives spent their whole lives with their brains being pickled inside of their television sets. It’s no wonder they view the likes of Clinton, etc… the way five year olds view Skeletor or Cobra Commander.

    • puredog

      Speak for yourself, Andy.

    • tomamitai

      I’m sure that twenty-plus years of conservatives pushing the “Clintons are killers” meme had nothing to do with it.

    • OddMan

      I turned the little shit into twitter for that one.

      ps Twitter has gotten better in the last couple of weeks about responding to complaints.

  • Arolpin

    Was the shooter kicked out with a Bad Conduct Discharge (BCD, aka Big Chicken Dinner) or an Other-Than-Honorable Discharge (OTH)? There are 5 classifications of military discharge: Honorable, General, Other-than-honorable, Bad Conduct, and Dishonorable. The first two generally allow the servicemember to keep any earned benefits, including VA benefits. The last two generally forfeit most benefits. With an OTH it’s a toss-up, but they are sometimes upgraded to General later with a possible restoration of benefits.

    • chortlingdingo

      I’m pretty sure that I read in a local report (I’m in San Antonio) that it was a bad conduct discharge.

    • Major_Major_Major

      Early reports had it as OTH, but I think most are now reporting it as a big chicken dinner.

    • UncleTravelingMatt

      I wondered that, too, but it came with 12 months confinement after court-martial, so that sounds a lot like BCD.

  • Vincent Ricola

    *deep sigh*

  • Gayer Than Thou

    Trigger warning: unformed thoughts ahead. I’ve been mulling over this “is it terrorism”/”is it mental illness”/”why not both” conundrum. The more I think about it, the more I think the problem is the primacy of masculinity, and the way we teach men to conceive of their masculine as inherently about being powerful. And then we teach them that violence is the right kind of power. Of course we for sure can’t ever have that conversation, because, ironically, we men are super fragile about our own toxicity.

    • Anna Rompage

      Can anyone who engages, unprovoked, in killing large numbers of people, be considered to be sane?

      • Old town Urbandale

        Depends on the colors of the shooter and the shot.

      • 🍁 Girl Guide Salute 🖖🏻

        It’s multiple factors. Toxic masculinity both exacerbates and contributes to mental illness, because boys and men are taught that healthy release of emotion (like crying) makes you a “sissy” and a “girl” and a “cuck.” This is what led to that idiot Chris Kyle getting himself killed by a “buddy” who he brought to a fucking shooting range as “therapy,” because sitting on a couch and going through your demons is pussy stuff.

        It’s going to take a lot of work to address this; some high-profile men (like Prince Harry and Justin Trudeau) are trying, but it’s because toxic masculinity is so prevalent that they, in turn, get attacked as “mama’s boys” and “whipped” and “cucks.” There are culturally or country-specific issues at play too; Prince Harry, in particular, has to contend with the postwar British stiff-upper-lip culture that doesn’t really approve of anyone wearing their heart on their sleeve (but men in particular), while Trudeau’s campaign to raise his sons to reject toxic masculinity leads to hicks in Alberta accusing him of child abuse and “turning the boys gay”.

        America faces a far worse problem because the prevalence of guns and “gun culture” here really isn’t a thing like it is in other countries where weapons possession is heavily restricted (nobody hoards an arsenal of AR-15s to go fox or moose hunting). But if America, with its outsized footprint on the rest of the world, addressed both the “gun situation” and the mental health/toxic masculinity problem it would go a long way towards enabling others to do so in a much biglier way.

      • BlissfulScribbler

        Thanks to the death cult that is American conservatism, the goalposts on this issue have shifted into dismal territory. When a situation like this occurs, the first inclination for a whole ton of those inhuman degenerates is to talk about the whole thing in terms of military tactics, divert discussions into needless esotericism about the attackers’ equipment, etc… What’s truly harrowing is that this increasingly passes for ‘sanity’ in a society that’s collapsing into oblivion because its constituents are less human than they are consumer.

    • 🍁 Girl Guide Salute 🖖🏻
    • tomamitai

      Also too, it is apparently a complete coincidence that men become less violent and criminal as they age and their testosterone levels decrease.

    • NastyBossetti

      A lot of people seem to have trouble understanding that “toxic masculinity” does not mean “all men are bad and evil.”

    • Khavrinen

      Speaking of mass-shooter related things that we’re apparently not allowed to talk about, in my opinion another of the major factors that no one ever seems to bring up is the fact that whenever these things happen all forms of news media always go into a major feeding frenzy. Just as all the “news” coverage of Trump’s latest wacky sound bite/”pussy grab”/pee tape meant oodles of free advertising that ended up getting him elected, the way they respond whenever there’s a shooting is practically engineered to make sure that any violent, angry loser will know just what to do if he ever feels he’s been pushed too far.

      • cmd resistor

        Really. Including how lately it seems part of the frenzy is reporting how this is the HUGEST mass shooting yet. (Las Vegas). So this one is the hugest on in Texas.. Yay, team. So the dumbass in WalMart last week is hardly even a story.

  • Scooby

    It’s ironic he is saying this in Japan, a country that has one of the lowest rates of gun crime in the world.

    • Crank Tango

      Yeah but they have the highest rates of samurai warriors.

      • Scooby

        And Ninjas…don’t forget the Ninjas.

        • Crank Tango

          I imagine Japan leads the world in drive-by numchuckings.

          • Christopher Story

            Throwing stars

        • Kiri the Unicorn

          And giant radioactive lizards.

    • 🍁 Girl Guide Salute 🖖🏻

      …because they have one of the lowest rates of gun ownership, period.

      • Khavrinen

        But there is no correlation at all between those two facts, according to rigorous, thorough scientific investigations done by the NRA.

      • Blackest Noobs

        well they are samurai warriors and all, i mean what the fuck is a samurai warrior gonna do with a fucking gun? geez.

  • Zonath

    Some in the Deplorable Media (NY Post especially) are already pushing the narrative that the shooter was an atheist so as to safely remove him from the mainstream and thus deflect conversation away from doing anything that might actually reduce the number of gun deaths in this forsaken country. So fuck those guys, as always.

    • Ghenghis McCann

      First they blamed the Muslims. Then they blamed the Atheists……

  • Khavrinen

    “It’s too soon to talk about guns, yet again.”

    It’s never NOT too soon, according to the NRA.

    • Zonath

      Well, when we have a mass shooting every damn day in this country, it’s always going to be too soon.

      And even if the mass shootings die down by themselves (it’d have to be by themselves because nobody’s going to do fuck all about them) there are still all the people who die of isolated acts of gun violence every single day, and why would you disrespect those people by trying to politicise their deaths?

    • Nah, the NRA thinks it’s great to talk about guns right after a mass shooting. They exhort their followers to buy even more before because this time they’re going to get banned, fer sher.

  • Asterix

    http://vickisotomemorial.com/

    I just can’t today. I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve watched, as I did this morning, flags lowered to half-staff on the Green.

    Saturday was the Vicki Soto memorial 5k here in Stratford. It was her 32nd birthday.

  • Old town Urbandale

    “Christianity is an inherently violent religion. Devin Patrick Kelley is obviously an Irish Catholic name, so this shooting is another example of the Catholic/Baptist chasm.” /snark

  • Michael R
    • Bub, the cynical zombie

      Hell, she’d be grabbing a spoon.

      • Vincent Ricola

        Ew. Gross. Upvote for truth.

    • 🍁 Girl Guide Salute 🖖🏻

      Why was Kellyanne sitting on Donald’s desk?

  • Vincent Ricola

    CNN banner right now:
    Law Enforcement: Gunman angry at mother-in-law

    JFC. This jerkoff went to shoot up his in-laws who weren’t even at church that day. Fucking hell.

    • cmd resistor

      Really. Bad enough you’d take out a whole church if your inlaws were there and you hated them. But to take them out on the off chance they might be there? According to Abbot, if true this makes the shooting “not a random act of violence.”

  • There is a curious connection between gun ownership and mental illness in this country.

    If you don’t shoot someone with your gun you are a patriot, if you shoot someone with your gun you are mentally ill.

    That’s just mental.

    • jesterpunk

      Only if you are white, if you are brown you are a terrorist.

  • Put On Your War Paint!

    I have been on Disability with BiPolar Disorder and PTSD since I was 18. Despite my family punishing me by calling the police when I would stand up and refuse to be further abused, I have no criminal record, no arrests, and I have been in *zero* violent confrontations.

    Let the GOP continue to stigmatize those of us that deal with mental illness. I would far rather be Crazy than be Subhuman Shit like they are.

    • 🍁 Girl Guide Salute 🖖🏻

      I guess that’s the lesser of two evils. I wish I wasn’t bipolar/PTSD too, because of how it’s viewed in society (and how it’s viewed in society has a lot to do with situations like this — vicious circle, catch-22, snake eating tail, etc.).

      But I agree, I hate being lumped in as a scapegoat when the real psychopaths are Wayne LaPierre, the GOP, and the money addicts snorting their own ego and getting high on greed.

      How come hoarding cats, stuffed animals, or trinkets bought on QVC is a sickness but hoarding money or an arsenal is not?

      • Put On Your War Paint!

        The Golden Rule – the Assholes with the Gold make the fucking Rules.

      • SeeTrain65

        Hoarding cats = Animal abuse
        Hoarding newspapers = Mental illness
        Hoarding money = SUCCESS!
        Hoarding guns = PATRIOT!

    • House0fTheBlueLights

      Fact: people with mental illnesses are more likely to be abused/shot (mostly by family members and police) than to be the abusers/shooters.

  • pgjack

    Just as long as we keep those Muslims out of the country there will be no more mass shootings. But if there are more (about one a week) that means few need more guns in the hands of the mentally ill and domestic abusers. Republicans are crazy for NRA voters and money. Can’t win a primary if you suggest having rapid fire military type weapons might make it easier to kill more people faster.

    • torturedsoul

      Agreed and hand guns should be issued at birth. Not to mention chemical weapons and rocket launchers.Maybe if one has a special hard on for the world nukes.It’s the American way.

    • Vel Venturi

      We should probably just go full Cronenberg and have guns grafted onto our hands.

  • Christopher Story

    It’s good that they were shot to death in their Church, since they were already so close to Jesus anyway.
    https://www.rawstory.com/2017/11/fox-news-host-says-church-is-the-best-place-to-get-shot-theres-no-other-place-we-would-want-to-go/

    • Ghenghis McCann

      And they were shot with a US made gun, so they could die feeling proud of their country?

    • SeeTrain65

      Fox & Friends’ blondes are chosen for their ability … to say the most inane things and the most inopportune times.

      That goes for Doocy and “honorary blonde” Kilmeade, too.

  • Bill D. Burger

    THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW 10/5/17
    Trump signed law to help mentally ill get guns
    Rachel Maddow points out the irony of Donald Trump’s remarks that the Las Vegas shooter was “sick and demented” when one of Trump’s only legislative accomplishments was a law to make it easier for the mentally ill to get guns.

    http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/trump-signed-law-to-help-mentally-ill-get-guns-1064009283995
    Aaaaaand’ ____today, of course,THIS:
    Trump says Texas church shooting caused by ‘mental health problem’ not guns
    • When asked whether U.S. gun control measures could have been the key to the Texas shooting, Trump replied, “Mental health is your problem here not guns.”
    • “Fortunately … somebody else had a gun that was shooting in the opposite direction,” Trump said at the press conference
    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/06/trump-says-texas-church-shooting-caused-by-mental-health-problem-not-guns.html
    _____________________________________________________
    The goddamned stupid and hypocrisy burn. Kim is right, the fucking mentally ill dotard should be in a nursing home, not at the head of a country.

    • weejee

      Gun nutz, amirite?

    • OrG

      Nursing home, with bars.

    • laineypc

      I pity the nursing home residents and staff who would be in the same building. The fake president should live alone in a mobile home with no internet for the rest of his days.

      • Bill D. Burger

        Trump and his people at the end:
        (*Trump (Salieri) would be, of course, tormented by the memory of President Obama.)

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yog8qXhQR2U

      • Ricky Gay

        Maybe if they told him it involved actual nursing, at a teat, he would go willingly?

        • laineypc

          I would say something about the prevalence of urinary incontinence but that would be extremely poor taste.

    • 🍁 Girl Guide Salute 🖖🏻

      When fucking Kim Bang Bang says you’re a fucking lunatic… yeah, guess what Dotard, it takes one to know one…

    • cmd resistor

      I’d vote for most of the residents of my mom’s nursing home before TRump.

      • Impatient

        Can no longer differentiate the ‘Best Laugh of the Day.’ Whenever I stop crying, another one pops up in front of my face.

  • weejee
    • Bub, the cynical zombie

      “Shoot zem…shoot zem ALL!”

  • fawkedifiknow

    Of course a guy who thinks he could shoot someone in broad daylight and not get in trouble for it would not recognize guns as any kind of problem. Ipso facto.

  • Covfefe

    Whenever I go crazy, I just go to the emergency room.

  • MynameisBlarney
    • OrG

      Coincidence.Obvs.

      • MynameisBlarney

        Totes obvs.

    • 🍁 Girl Guide Salute 🖖🏻

      “This is a very deranged individual, a lot of problems over a long period of time”

      Donald Trump, describing Donald Trump

    • Zonath

      Was a lot funnier when it was just Trump’s Twitter history that contradicted the thing he just said and made him look like a vacillating moron. Now that it’s legislative history, it’s just kinda horrifying.

    • Crank Tango

      No one could have seen this coming.

    • Impatient

      Well then. NOW I understand. Thanks Donnie Putin!

  • calliecallie

    “Reuters noted that Kelley’s former spouse’s parents worshiped at the Baptist church he attacked, although they were not in attendance yesterday.”

    I bet those people feel just horrible about all this. I can’t even imagine.

  • Old town Urbandale

    “I hear the guy preferred pulled pork to brisket, so he’s obviously sick in the head and/or not a real Texan.”

  • rosenbomb

    It is a sad state of affairs that I read this news and didn’t even flinch.

    Don’t worry though, the spiral into despondency has already begun.

  • alwayspunkindrublic

    Wow, this is a real first. There’s never before been a connection between wife beaters and mass murderers. Bill O’Reilly will be shocked.

    • OrG

      Underwear and mass murders?

      • alwayspunkindrublic

        They call those shirts that for reason.

    • cmd resistor

      Not to mention animal cruelty, which he also had in his history.

      • Old town Urbandale

        Kelley or O’Reilly?

        • alwayspunkindrublic

          BOT,K.

        • cmd resistor

          Kelley had an arrest in 2014 I think for kicking his dog in the head. Actually some sort of conviction. A neighbor from that time was interviewed and said he kept his dog tied up in the sun all the time. DOn’t know if it was the same dog.

      • alwayspunkindrublic

        I’d be wiling to bet a close look at Trump’s childhood would reveal animal cruelty and bedwetting. Maybe a little arson thrown in for extra sociopathy.

  • laughingnome

    I’ll have to say I’m no longer interested in reading about the backgrounds of these mass killers. Pretty much all the same.

    • laineypc

      Which would suggest that we have the ability to predict who is at risk and get them mental health care and prevent their access to guns. If we wanted to you know, prevent this sort of thing.

  • rocktonsam

    The air seems lighter and fresher with him out of the country.
    I’m just going to enjoy that for now,

  • People with domestic abuse convictions should not have guns. This asshat shouldn’t have had a fucking paintball gun, let alone a fucking AR15. I don’t give a flying FUCK about any other circumstance for this piece of shit. If you hurt your family and have a past that involves violent crimes, particularly crimes against family or people smaller than you or otherwise defenseless, NO FUCKING GUN FOR YOU. CONSEQUENCES, MOTHERFUCKER.

    • puredog

      Governor Abbott was quoted as saying that the shooter “was not supposed to have access to guns.” Maybe that’s what he was referencing.

      • cmd resistor

        Yeah, he said he was denied a CCW permit but apparently was allowed to buy the guns, maybe by lying on his application? I thought you couldn’t get one if you had a DV conviction.

        • puredog

          I *think* that’s a matter of state law, in which case, Texas? Also, it doesn’t take a CCW permit to own and possess firearms, just to pack concealed heat. Besides which, isn’t TX an open-carry state?

          • cmd resistor

            I thought I’d read that there was a federal law, but I could be wrong. It did surprise me.

          • puredog

            I should know this, just researched it, and you are correct. So that’s probably what Abbott was talking about.

          • cmd resistor

            Seems like I have seen speculation he might have lied on whatever he had to fill out to get the gun, too. Of course one would think fingerprints would be involved, but they probably aren’t.

        • Yeah, in most states you can buy a long gun without any kind of permit. A CCW requires classes and background checks. I’m not sure on Texas law though. I’m in Illinois and we have to get a FOID card to own any gun, but that’s atypical.

      • Bill D. Burger

        Wheelbilly Greg is undoubtedly still upset that Texas ranks second to CA in gun purchases. Texas needs more guns because (even though their population is 17,000,000 less than CA) TEXAS!

    • SeeTrain65

      Speaking of mental illness and consequences …

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dWjKkF0Zi4

  • Resistance Ftr PuckStopsHere

    It is a mental health issue. A country which elects someone such as this to its highest office and which tolerates mass murder of this sort over and over and over and over again has clearly gone crazy.

  • SeeTrain65

    Mueller’s investigation is about mental health, too.

    He’s trying to root out a mentally disturbed administration.

  • (((fka_donnie_d))), SOB

    “This is a mental health problem at the highest level.”

    Blue light special on Freudian slips in the ladies’ underwear department

  • alwayspunkindrublic

    Can we add “dead-eyed white motherfuckers” to the list of people who aren’t allowed to own guns?

  • Impatient

    Can I just suggest that this is most likely a fruit cocktail situation? With lite syrup?

  • Christopher Smith

    Domestic terrorism: coming SOON to a Christianista enclave near you.

    • JoeChristmas

      Ehe Dotard won the War on Christianista!

  • marxalot

    Domestic violence, once again, proves to be a predictor for mass violence.
    Which, of course, means just as surely as the 2nd Amendment enshrines our inalienable and untrammeled right to own multiple murder machines, that nothing will ever be done about it.

    • cmd resistor

      I’m thinking it must have been fairly severe DV, to get 12 months, also, too.

      • marxalot

        And a not-honorable discharge on a court-martial, no less.

    • puredog

      He also had an animal cruelty conviction (details unknown so far), so, same.

  • Jonny On Maui

    Of course Trump is concerned about the mentally ill club. He’s a member.

  • Spotts1701, Nothingburger Chef

    We can’t make it about the guns? The guy mowed down 26 people and wounded 20 more in less time than it takes to read the first paragraph of this article.
    An Uzbeki immigrant runs over 8 people and you want to immediately dismantle the program that allowed him to enter the country and completely rewrite immigration law. But a white American uses his 2nd Amendment right to deprive others of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness you sit on your hands and say it’s not about the guns. It’s about “mental illness” (which you won’t fix), or about a “culture of hatred and divisiveness” (which you inflame), or “more people should be armed” (as if that has ever solved the problem).
    It’s not about the guns? THE HELL IT ISN’T!

    • cmd resistor

      Right, these days you have a bad day and you just gather up some of your arms and take it out on random innocent people who have nothing to do with your bad day. Yes I am oversimplifying but really, not so much in some cases.

  • BigCSouthside

    It is a mental health issue. But let’s take some action.

    Mental health is a difficult situation, and while we are working on that maybe we shouldn’t let people buy warfighting equipment over the counter, for less than the cost of a new iPhone.

    Maybe do this, anything semi auto is limited to three shots (waterfowl hunters carry 3 shells now). And anything that cycles mechanically (no gas blow back etc) is limited to six to accommodate revolvers and lever rifles. No detachable magazine of any kind. To be legal a gun has to be loaded by physically placing one round at a time into the gun. Anything that changes the fire rate of any gun is a felony

    That covers all hunting, field, varmaint control, and even bullshit “self defense” needs of any civilian while not allowing some fucking idiot to kill 30 people in under a minute.

    • marxalot

      I’d be down for that. I was gonna go with “single and double action only, no magazines unless the weapon is in the possession of an active member of the military,” but I like the easement for lever rifles.

      • BigCSouthside

        Yeah, levers are basically the only legal deer gun in my state, but if you need more than two rounds you’re doing it wrong

        • marxalot

          If you can’t get it on the first one, the damn thing’s bolted, come back tomorrow morning. If you winged it, you should only need one more to finish the poor thing off; and next time, make sure you’ve got a clean shot.
          I like venison, and there are still plenty of food hunters where I’m from.

          • BigCSouthside

            Me too, everyone I know hunts primarily because everyone we know loves venison. A lot of my friends will take a bigger doe over a little buck just because the meat cooks better.

          • Covfefe

            Youse guys should go bear hunting. You wing a bear, you don’t have to chase it.

          • marxalot

            Ha, same with everything in the swine family! Feral hogs can take a helluva direct hit without going down, either.

        • Exactly.

  • cmd resistor

    CNN is reporting that they recovered the AR-15 at the church and two other guns in the car. I think this was after this press briefing that just happened. Meaning maybe he did drop the gun.

  • I think that mental health is your problem here.

    Great. Mandatory psychological screenings for all prospective gun owners then? With required annual re-certification to keep your guns?

    Hahahahaha… no… of course not. Just because you’re a crazy person doesn’t mean you should lose your 2nd amendment rights in America.

    • Old town Urbandale

      A crazy person will lose their right to vote long before they’ll lose their right to buy a gun.

      • marxalot

        Shit, you can lose your right to vote by jaywalking in the wrong neighborhood. Or living in the wrong neighborhood.

  • OrdinaryJoe

    Our inability as a Nation to deal with the gun plague tells me that we have no longer have a capacity for self government as conceived by the Constitution. I knew this in my heart when we could not come together to seek a solution even after a room full of children were massacred. The US is over. You can write “Killed by the NRA and the 2d Amendment” on the historical tombstone.

    • marxalot

      Cause of death: self-infliced gunshot wound.

    • Wookie Monster

      If we actually had self-government, Congress would have passed the expanded background checks that 90% of the country supported after Sandy Hook. If dead Kindergartners couldn’t move republicans to give up NRA cash and do what the people wanted, nothing ever will.

      We’re a government by the corporate lobbyists, for the corporate lobbyists, and of the corporate lobbyists.

  • JoeChristmas

    A known terrorist organization, the NRA, is largely responsible for this massacre.

    • Wookie Monster

      The sad thing is that the NRA used to be a legitimate gun safety organization that supported some reasonable regulations. Then they got taken over by rightwing nutjobs in the 1970s. Now they can’t conceive of any problem that can’t be solved with more guns.

      • JoeChristmas

        I miss Eddie the Eagle — JK, he was the Joe Camel of ammosexuals.
        Not sure when the gun manufacturers took the wheel.

  • Wookie Monster

    We can have the mental illness v. guns debate until we’re blue in the face, but we have to remember that the republicans have steadfastly resolved not to do anything about either issue.

    • 🍁 Girl Guide Salute 🖖🏻

      If anything, the GOP is both causing and exacerbating mental illness in this country. Studies have been done indicating that poverty, especially racially-connected poverty, is as damaging to the brain as… um… lead poisoning…

      • SadDemInTex

        If this is true then you are more of a threat to yourself than to others. The stats show suicide by gun is huge compared to the mass shooters.

  • Christopher Story

    I have a mental illness, and I have a gun. All this scapegoating, and I have to remain stoic about it all, because the first hint of emotion means I’m a violent threat.

    • Being involuntarily committed to a mental hospital revokes gun rights. That doesn’t mean a large number of mentally ill people don’t own firearms.

      • Oblios_Cap

        Since I personally believe most of us suffer some form of mental illness, I agree with you.

      • Christopher Story

        The irony is, my family demanded I get the gun, so that they would feel safer. I still don’t like having a gun in my home because I don’t believe in violence of any kind, but my family feels safe enough with me to demand that I keep one, just in case.

        • That seems weird. Guns scare the shit out of me. When my brother committed suicide years ago I was distraught and talking with my mom on the phone (2,500 miles away). I was sobbing and said, “I don’t know what to do.” My mom, famous for her gallows humor said, “Hide all your weapons.”

          • Christopher Story

            I’m a pacifist through and through. Even the few self-defense martial arts I know are blocks and grapples and submissions. Even if someone is intent on causing me harm and damage, I don’t want to retaliate in kind; rather, I merely want to be able to nutrilize the immediate threat to my person or to that of a third party. Guns to me are simply over kill.

    • ziggywiggy

      I have a mental illness and don’t own a gun(before treatment if I’d had a gun I wouldn’t be here). It’s almost like we are unique individuals. But my problem is turned inward. I think there really does need to be a line but I honestly have no idea what the solution could be.

      • Christopher Story

        54% of mass shooters have a history of domestic abuse and violence.
        Only 5% of all violent crimes are committed by someone with a diagnosable mental illness.
        It seems prior acts of violence are a much better indicator than a short attention span or disinterest in things once enjoyable.
        That said, I used to be my own greatest enemy, myself, and I’ve got scars from that period in my life. Treatment gave me confidence and self-worth, which changed everything else.
        So I think violent people get punishment and sick people get help. It seems rational and reasonable, which I’m sure is why such an idea is so controversial.

        • Excellent points. Even in my greatest depths of despair I never wanted to hurt anyone (or any thing) other than myself.

        • ziggywiggy

          Thank you, a very smart way of describing it.

  • Bub, the cynical zombie

    “Wayne, would you PLEASE wash your hands!”

    WlaP: “Nah…I like the way it feels when it dries and flakes off. And there’s always fresh blood coming. Always…”

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f57961b6dc9c6137d14f5f3dad16367f7141680056db2e015d244866fdc1dfac.jpg

  • Bill D. Burger

    Not a religious person at all………….but: “Here! Here!”

    Harvard Professor Jonathan L. Walton calls NRA a “domestic terrorist organization”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQo0QcNUmd4

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DN7MSe3UQAEZfYM.jpg

  • Alienist

    I think Americans too often confuse “mentally illness” with “evil.” It comforts us that people who commit crimes are not like “us.” They are “deranged” or “crazy.” They are not simply citizens who reserve the right to use deadly physical force when other sources of influence are beyond their grasp or they just don’t want to use them. As long as people have guns, they will be used by people who don’t have the intelligence, knowledge, wealth, social influence, or political power to get what they want. Some may be mentally ill, but this distracts from the most common attribute of violent people — they feel impaired in their ability to exercise socially appropriate influence and feel powerful in their aggression.

  • beingreleased

    Look, if you don’t want to be shot in a church, don’t go to church. On the other hand,
    https://twitter.com/ChristnNitemare/status/927579423058153474

    • Oblios_Cap

      I’m not going to one!

    • Bill D. Burger

      (surprised she didn’t continue) ___ “…and if you’re gonna’ get raped, what better place than at home in your own bed in the middle of the night where everythings familiar and cozy! ___ Amirite’ Steve? Brian?”

      These goddamned FOX fools shouldn’t be allowed to be free and roam among us.
      Where do they dredge up this ignorant, bottom feeding scum at FOX?

    • BigCSouthside

      Is…isn’t this real? This happened? Someone said that with a straight face?

    • elviouslyqueer

      Why do Douchey and Kilmeade look like they’ve both got a roll of upright thumbtacks superglued to their respective anuses?

      • beingreleased

        Sometimes the obvious answer is also the correct one.

      • Bill D. Burger

        I’d like to believe they were shocked by her remark, but more than likely, they’re pissed she said it before they did.

    • Crank Tango

      May all her dreams come true, I guess.

      • “There are more tears shed over answered prayers…”

      • Bdupa

        I would put “hospital” as my #1 seed of placed to get shot

    • laineypc

      My thoughts and prayers are with Ainsley’s missing brain cells.

  • Charon_69

    “this isn’t a guns situation,” the president said, making his comments in Japan, a country which has restrictive handgun licensing and in 2014 recorded just six gun-related homicides.”

    /irony meter fucking explodes

    • BigCSouthside

      Their laws are pretty fucking tough. They have a big sporting shotgun culture there (browning O/Us were made there for a long time) and you basically have to file a binder of paperwork to have one. I’d do that

  • Ducksworthy

    Where are the thoughts and prayers? You monster!

    • He sent God to be with the families as his stand-in.

    • Old town Urbandale

      I’ve redirected all my Puerto Rico thoughts and prayers to Sutherland Springs. Besides, there are too many Puerto Ricans in Puerto Rico.

  • SadDemInTex

    Abbott may be the biggest douche bag as governor but he was there giving real comfort to people affected by this. And it was not just a photo op. I saw different people. He is not the complete sociopath that 45 is.

    • alwayspunkindrublic

      Complaining about Texas not being #1 in gun purchases and CC permits kind of throws a wet blanket on his compassion.

      • marxalot

        To be fair (ugh, I hate it when I have to do this), that tweet was two years ago. It doesn’t make him any less of a bridge dwelling troll who apparently cannot link cause and effect, but there’s that.

        • alwayspunkindrublic

          Fortunately, there’s not a statue of limitations on being an asshole.

        • Rebel Scum with permit

          Well ok this won’t make me popular, but there are some conventions and manners in the south and Texas- if you’re the right color and social class especially. Respect for elders, and comforting the afflicted are among those.
          A couple of days ago we we were headed for a booth in a Panera and a young woman raced past my disabled veteran fiancé, who walks with a cane, and planted her ass there. “Sorry” she simpered.
          “Well, I guess we’re back in California” he commented, as he gently guided me away to keep me from tearing the young lady apart with my teeth. Say what you want about Texas, that would’ve been less likely to happen there.

          • Manners must be taught. I would have verbally eviscerated her.

      • SadDemInTex

        Oh for fuck’s sake this state is so fucked up

        • alwayspunkindrublic

          Yeah? Visit me in Arizona some time.

  • Poly_Ester

    Does the Executive Order make Trump an accessory before the fact?

  • OddMan

    “Devin Kelley tried to get a license to carry a gun in Texas, but the state denied him.”

    You gotta be pretty damn bad to not get a carry permit in Texas.

    • Old town Urbandale

      Good thing it’s pretty much impossible to conceal an assault rifle, so you don’t need a concealed carry permit. (Now, to wait for the inevitable troll to point out that there are no such things as assault rifles…)

      • Skwerl the Taco Hunter

        I’ll do it. There is no such thing ass an assault rifle. All guns are cuddly bunnies.

      • Salt rifles are pretty awful, better to make them out of metal and plastic

  • Ducksworthy

    Support 2nd Amendment Rights for Mentally Ill Domestic Abusers!

    • Marsupial99

      You want Trump to have a gun?

  • Oblios_Cap

    “This is a mental health problem at the highest level.”

    So the Cheetostained Bunglecunt Shitgibbon is blaming Gawd? Inpeach!

    • marxalot

      Maybe he’s finally taking responsibility for his own tertiary syphilis.

  • Rachel Book Harlot

    Did any of the journalists ask him why it’s too soon to talk about guns yet wasn’t too soon to talk about immigration after the NYC incident?

    • clubseal

      Well, his point would have been, “Muslim bad, white not bad.”

    • Alan

      Hard to pronounce name.

  • Teecha

    I saw a load of comments written by one person on another website (obvs, as no comments are allowed here) and that gun lover was all about how this one good guy with a gun shows that gun control is not necessary. And then went on to say that the right to bear arms was embedded by the founding fathers. But I thought that it was an amendment to your constitution? I don’t know much about early US history (I teechabout some American history, but on the whole in the British system we don’t concern ourselves we the doings of the early post-colonials) Can anyone enlighten me as to the veracity of the statement? I CBA to google the dates.

    And my limited knowledge of the founding fathers was that they had been classically educated and were trying to implement ideas of liberty and so on that don’t seem to chime with this frankly bizarre fixation on any arsehole owning a gun

    • Skwerl the Taco Hunter

      Nobody ever thought of gun ownership as the fundamental right it has been made out to be since the 1970s.

      • Teecha

        I just don’t understand why anyone would want a gun.

        I’ve messed around with a BB gun when I was a kid, and I’ve been to a clay pigeon shoot, but I couldn’t understand the appeal.

    • beingreleased

      This one good guy showed up after over 50 people were shot. That apparently represents a best case scenario.

      • Teecha

        Yeh, the gunshagger thought it was a point in his(?) favour. Not sure I see how. But there we go.

      • SadDemInTex

        Yeah, so at least the “good” guy wasn’t randomly shooting people because he couldn’t tell who had the gun. He came out after all the shooting had died down and the shooter was trying to leave.

      • laineypc

        I think the argument is that if everyone was concealed carrying, the crazy crimers (who often seem quite prepared for their shooting sprees to end in their own deaths) will not bother to try, since they know they will be stopped by the good guyz and galz with gunz.

        • beingreleased

          I think about the Aurora theater shooting: A dark, smoky (because of the shooting) theater where he fired hundreds of rounds in a few minutes. Just the place where everyone should have pulled their guns and started shooting.

          At the Walmart shooting the other week, it took longer to find the shooter because everyone in the store started pulling guns and the police didn’t know who were the good guys and who was the bad guy.

          • Teecha

            It’s almost as if everyone and their mum having a gun doesn’t help matters.

        • BigCSouthside

          Also I read this guy had body armor

          Are they expecting me to go everywhere in full battle rattle or something?

    • Mr. Blobfish

      Give everyone a muzzle-loader and I’ll be satisfied.

      • Teecha

        Carry your powder in a little bag?

    • BigCSouthside

      There is heavy debate on what they meant. The individual right to arms wasn’t legally upheld until the early 2000s

      It is poorly worded, and focuses on well regulated militia. Many people think that this is a reference to the fact that if you were male and between a certain age, you could be called to serve your state militia and be called up to federal service. Mobilizing a National Army was not as easy back then, especially after fighting the Brits.

      All rifles were essentially the same back then. You keep one in case you ever are called to fight. Some early founding writers made a distinction between bearing arms (fighting in war) and hunting, saying a man could hunt his whole life and never “bear arms”.

      • Teecha

        Yes, that was what my understanding of the argument was. Do you know, off the top of your head, how long after the constitution was (made? signed? implemented?) that this amendment was agreed?

        • BigCSouthside

          it was part of the original bill of rights, they were pretty close from a timing perspective

          • Teecha

            It’s nearly my bedtime, so I’m not about to fall into a google vortex- I’ve never heard of the bill of rights until now. Maybe tomorrow I’ll have a read. Or maybe not. I’ve not planned my lesson of the role of Piedmont and Prussia in the unification of Germany yet… and I’m sposed to be teaching it tomorrow!

        • Crack_A_Toe_Ah

          September, 1787 — Constitution sent to states for ratification

          June, 1788 — Constitution ratified.

          September, 1789 — The Bill of Rights (original 10 amendments) pass Congress

          December, 1791 — Bill of Rights ratified

          • Teecha

            Thank you! I really appreciate it.

            I think I only know about 5 or 6 amendments and that coz they’re the famous ones, or ones that appear in the courses I teach.

      • Werewolf

        Only the “Minutemen” kept arms at home. Most militia arms were kept in the town armory, and checked out as needed for drills or active service.

      • h4rr4r

        The founding fathers did not want to have a standing national army.

        Doing so leads to forever war. Like we see today.

        • BigCSouthside

          Yeah and they weren’t particularly fond of how the British Army treated the colonials pre revolution.

          • Teecha

            Britain doesn’t have the *best* record in the way it trampled all over other peoples around the globe…

    • SadDemInTex

      Re: the well regulated militia; In the “slave” states the owners of slaves lived in fear of a slave uprising as had happened in the late 1600’s and during the 1700’s in the Caribbean. They needed to be able to raise a militia in order to quell any such revolt by their slaves (and also to capture them if they decided to decamp en masse).

      • Teecha

        Funny how gun control became a thing when black civil rights groups started carrying guns… it’s almost like there’s some sort of theme.

    • Teecha

      And I reply to myself- even if I was armed and well enough practiced in shooting targets, would I want to be responsible for the death of another person? Even if that person was a murderer? I’m not sure I could live with that knowledge on my conscience.
      I’ve got a few family members who fought in WW2, and friends who fought in Angola, and I know that for them, even though they were trained and thought they were doing the right thing, that knowledge haunted them.

      • BigCSouthside

        We glorify it here. It’s the “old west” gun culture myth. Good guys protecting the citizens from black hat bandits etc. our gun culture is way different

        • Teecha

          You’re not wrong! Dunblaine and then Hungerford happened and we all collectively said ‘nope. That’s enough guns’
          It’s a relief tbh. And when I see the local police here with guns, or when I go to Europe and the gavvers there are all armed, it makes me nervous! I like that gun crime in the UK is really rare.

          • Invisible Bunyip

            In Australia, Port Arthur. That caused a change in gun laws and a massive gun amnesty buy-back, so we don’t have widespread gun ownership and we certainly don’t miss it.

            I don’t actually know anyone who has a gun.

          • Teecha

            I remember that in the news.

            I had one friend who’s dad was a farmer. They had a couple of shot guns. But that’s it. And they had this safe that they were kept in that had to be inspected by the local police every so often IIRC.

          • Invisible Bunyip

            Yes. That was in 1996, and we haven’t had a mass shooting since. The shooter is in prison with a life sentence, no parole ever. (Very unusual for Aust.)

          • Grumpy Twat

            Ditto.
            Armed coppers at St Pancras station (where the Eurostar trains arrive) put the shits up me.

      • Anarchy Unicorn

        Iraq vet here. I can’t begin to describe the feeling. I know I’m an outlier in my extreme reaction, but I went to war and came back a pacifist.

        • Teecha

          I’m not sure you are an outlier- my various cousins/uncles all felt the same, as do my friends who fought in Angola. All them totally abhor violence.

          I’m sure it must be a really strange experience- and then an even stranger experience to come back and fit back into civilian life. I hope you are peace in yourself?

          • Anarchy Unicorn

            I’m okay. I am a mess, but people are messy so probably no more so than anyone else in the world.

          • Teecha

            Big love to your messy self from here x

        • Gussie Jives

          That’s why a guy like Chris Kyle sent red flags up for me. I realize that there’s a certain detachment required to be a sniper, but the sheer dehumanization seemed to fuel a bloodlust in that guy that chilled me to the core.

          His own words revealed a guy who enjoyed taking lives. However he justified or compartmentalized his actions, that’s not normal.

  • Mr. Blobfish

    So, President Classless Oaf, if other countries have mental health issues, why aren’t their citizens slaughtering their fellow citizens by the score every coupla weeks?

    • Ryan Denniston

      Because they don’t have as many guns?

      • anomie

        ding ding ding ding We have a winner!

    • Alan

      Wait, don’t tell me, lemme think about it.

  • Ryan Denniston

    “Fortunately, that criminal history was enough for Trump to reach a
    diagnosis, explaining, “This is a mental health problem at the highest
    level.””

    Screw the Goldwater rule, I know who else has mental health issues, and that person is Donald Trump! Also, I hear from a highly placed source that he is, in fact, a fucking moron to boot.

    • anomie

      Totally agree with your assessment of DOTUS.

      As far as this shooter, it is scanty evidence so far but I’d argue it’s a given that anyone who is capable of murdering 26 innocent strangers, including children, in cold blood has mental health problems – sort of prima facie.

  • SeeTrain65

    “IT’S THE ECONOMY GUNS, STUPID.”

  • elviouslyqueer

    And the can’t evens just keep on a’coming. FFS.

  • Mr. Blobfish

    Three out of three morons agree: there is no place better to get shot then in a church.

  • laineypc

    Putting on my feminist pussy hat…
    The white men doing these domestic terrorisms/mass shootings are victims (yes, victims) of the culture of epidemic toxic masculinity. It’s a collective mental illness getting worse, with guns aiding, abetting and magnifying it, the internet/social media creating more and more isolated people who use computers as a substitute for connection and enable and magnify their anonymously held delusions and loneliness. For every alienated, isolated man that picks up a weapon and kills others, there are probably thousands who turn on themselves and suicide, who do non-lethal violence to intimate partners and generally feed on self hatred and rage as their way of being.

    It’s easier and preferable to think of them as monsters, but I do believe society is failing these people, and as long as we just demonize them rather than recognize our part in creating them, it will get worse. Yes, gun safety/control/bans, absolutely. This is major but all these different factors interact, and can’t be taken in isolation.

    • Gussie Jives

      As Digby says, we gotta turn the taps off first, then we can work on the long-term societal problems of toxic masculinity and patriarchy.

      • laineypc

        The toxic masculinity is what is keeping the taps on.

  • clubseal

    One early report I saw said that there didn’t appear to be any ties to terrorism because JESUS FUCKING CHRIST WHY DO AMERICANS THINK THAT MAKES SOMETHING LIKE THIS WORSE?

    • Pisto75666

      Makes it easier for them if they can blame a brown terr’ist.

      • clubseal

        It just blows my mind … at first, then I remember that it’s very hard for Americans to point a finger at themselves.

        • Pisto75666

          You have to be flexible to do that

    • Because getting shot in a Texas church is WAY better than getting killed by a danged non-Jeebus-believing ferinur.

    • insolenttomato

      According to the shooter’s high school acquaintances, he preached atheism, so it’s only a matter of time until he’s painted as a filthy g-d-hating radical Marxist antifa leftist. See the comment above about how he’s “our ilk.”

      • clubseal

        And by the “support the troops!!1!!!” crowd as well. I always wonder about the mental gymnastics conservatives must go through when an American soldier does something horrifying.

  • h4rr4r

    Considering he had a BCD and was incarcerated for DV, was he able to buy guns legally?

    I just ask, because if so then the whole background check system is useless.

    • anomie

      I thought I’d read that he lied on his application. He didn’t check the box or whatever. Hard to believe it could be that easy, though.

      • BigCSouthside

        There’s also all our loopholes, where you can basically buy one out of a guy’s trunk in the parking lot

      • h4rr4r

        I could understand him lying on the form, but shouldn’t the NICS check come back with that information?

        • anomie

          I would think that as well.

        • cmd resistor

          Are fingerprints involved?

          • h4rr4r

            No, just a background check.

            They can’t even keep the records of the check for more than a short amount of time.

            I don’t think fingerprinting would pass constitutional muster.

          • cmd resistor

            I knew that about only keeping it a short time. Seems like a check w/o the fingerprints wouldn’t be all that accurate.

          • h4rr4r

            They don’t take fingerprints to run most background checks. The background check is as accurate as any other. It just checks state and federal databases for crimes for that social.

            Fingerprint matching is mostly horseshit anyway. It is so subjective as to be nearly useless.

            What background check actually relies on the fingerprint? The one for teachers is just a normal background check and the fingerprints are just filed away for later use.

    • anomie

      Found the link about him buying the gun (don’t know if it’s been verified; at this point the NYTimes is still saying there’s no definite info on how he got it, but CNN seems to know):

      http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/05/us/devin-kelly-texas-church-shooting-suspect/index.html

      Kelley purchased the Ruger AR-556 rifle in April 2016 from an Academy Sports & Outdoors store in San Antonio, a law enforcement official told CNN.

      When Kelley filled out the background check paperwork at the store, he checked the box to indicate he didn’t have disqualifying criminal history, the official said. He listed an address in Colorado Springs, Colorado when he bought the rifle, the official said.

      • h4rr4r

        So does NICS not have military criminal justice information?

        • anomie

          Good question. Ideally it would have everything. The domestic stuff should’ve been a red flag — was that only in the military files?

  • goonemeritus

    Owning an assault weapon is a clear sign of mental issue so Trump may be on to something here.

  • anon_the_great

    Here are two simple actions that could help a lot. Outlaw the sale of new semiautomatic rifles and regulate the remaining of them like machine guns. Time to stop pretending these rifles are for deer hunting. Sporting Arms my ass.

    • BigCSouthside

      The only thing I’ve actually seen them used for in the field is controlling coyote populations on farms and ranches, but they are definitely overkill. They are for minimally trained soldiers to be able to kill a lot of enemy combatants quickly. That’s it

      • anon_the_great

        A bolt action rifle works just fine for varmint suppression. And there are better methods of coyote control. Guard dogs for instance.

        • BigCSouthside

          Yep agreed. There’s about 2 dozen things you could do for that before saying “I need a military rifle for this”

    • Gussie Jives

      I don’t think they do pretend they’re for deer. I think they really do think they have these in preparation for One World Government troops busting down their door or somesuch crap.

      • insolenttomato

        Which I have never gotten. The government has tanks. If they decide to take your guns, they’re taking your guns.

        • Gussie Jives

          Exactly. If I had to venture into these people’s minds, I suspect they’re like that guy in that episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation “The Ensigns of Command” where Data had to convince that colony that they had to leave and their leader was like “Let’s stay and fight” and Data’s like “Dude, you’re gonna get smoked from space.” They think they’re fighting their equal and to the extent they aren’t, they’ll be remembered as valiant heroes for dying for their goofy cause.

  • Blackest Noobs

    you know when i have a domestic dispute i usually go load up my guns and then plan on the shooting the person i have said domestic dispute in a crowded area.

    it’s rule #4 of the NRA’s gunplay
    4. When planning to shoot the bad guy/gal who’s giving you shit in a domestic dispute, it is best to do said shooting in a crowded area.

    • cmd resistor

      And no need to check and see if person with whom you are having a dispute is even there.

  • JoeChristmas

    The only thing that stops a bad immigrant with a Home Depot truck is a good immigrant with a Home Depot truck.

    • Poly_Ester

      Or a school bus

  • andyshelt

    “I think that mental health is your problem here. Based on preliminary reports, a very deranged individual, a lot of problems for a long period of time. We have a lot of mental health problems in our country, as do other countries. But this isn’t a guns situation.”

    Dear President Dipshit.

    Even if this shooter was suffering from mental health problems the fact that he was able to have easy access to military grade weapons enabling him to kill 26 people in a short space of time sort of makes it a “guns situation” don’t you think, you fucking moron.

    • george lastrapes

      But think of the guns! Guns are not to blame. Don’t they feel bad enough already?

  • Stein Olsen

    When you think Fox News has hit rock bottom, they fucking do this.
    http://verifiedpolitics.com/fox-news-just-tried-point-something-good-church-shooting/

    • WeaselPoo

      Church is the best place to get killed?!
      Wrong.
      Funeral home is the best place to get killed—they have the coffins.
      Or a crematorium—straight into the oven.
      Or a swamp….zero cost.

      • anomie

        Gallows humor but I’ll take it today.

      • GHERKINS du RESISTANCE!

        Isn’t the best place to get killed Heaven?

        Because you’re already dead, or something?

  • Gussie Jives

    Man, that episode of Bojack Horseman about guns just gets more and more relevant with every one of these tragedies….

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eG0y_nb5IA

    • insolenttomato

      I continue to be surprised that a cartoon about a Bob Sagat-esque alcoholic horse-man voiced by Will Arnet featuring a pink Persian cat-woman voiced by Amy Sedaris is so fucking profound.

      • Gussie Jives

        It really is surprisingly prescient. All credit to its writing staff for its funny and very often strikingly moving content.

        • insolenttomato

          Slightly OT: There is a history of dementia in my family. I’ve read about “onion ninjas” on this site, and during “Time’s Arrow” I think they broke into my apartment. The first time I watched “Thoughts and Prayers,” I thought the episode was a little scattered, but now I’m thinking it’s doing double duty as a public service driving home the utter uselessness of that platitude.

  • ken_kukec

    So Trump has diagnosed Devin Kelly long-distance as having gone “full Private Pyle”?

    • Persistent Tennessee Rain

      I’m sure to him there were “fine people on both sides”

  • BoatOfVelociraptors

    The selfishness of gun owners is astounding. I have to give up my ability to feel safe in public so that gun owners can feel like they are a trigger pull away from delivering death at at all times.

    • Pisto75666

      At the risk of sounding like a broken record (Because I seem to say this every time one of these massacres happens), they care more for their guns than their fellow human beings. And they need to be called out for it as much as humanly possible.

  • chascates
    • “God’s Texan children.”

      Religion is an idiotic scourge upon the Earth.

    • Gussie Jives

      Okay, I think Mr. Fiene here has some empathy components missing from that… brain… of his.

    • cmd resistor

      Wow, looks like he’s from the Lutheran wing where I was raised.

    • GHERKINS du RESISTANCE!

      Wow, lookit Gawd workin’ all his mysterious ways!

      I sorta can’t help noticing, though… A big ol’ portion of the evil in this “evil world” that we need to be delivered from:

      Motherfuckers with guns.

      I guess we need to be murdered by Evil Motherfuckers With Guns, to deliver us from the OTHER Evil Motherfuckers with Guns, because sure, then we can’t be murdered again by other Evil Motherfuckers with Guns.

      It all makes sense iffen you just have faith.
      You’ll be safe from murderers once you get murdered, DUH!

      Thanks Garbage Person God, you’re the best!

      So are we planning to give the murderer sainthood now, because he was doing so much of God’s work?

    • Grumpy Twat

      It’s a bit rough on the injured, though, isn’t it?
      So near and yet so far.

    • HooverVilles

      Ugh!

  • andyshelt

    Have the “false flag” bullshit conspiracy theories began yet?

    Just a few questions for these moronic shitstains:

    1) Why bother mounting a “false flag” operation when you have a moron for a President in the White House who has made it clear that he doesn’t give a fuck about victims of gun crime (unless the perpetrators are brown/black/muslim – delete as applicable) and has no interest in even the smallest change in policy on gun control.

    2) Why bother when you have a corrupt GOP completely owned by the NRA that has made it plain that they fully agree with President Dipshit on this issue and when the NRA say jump they immediately say “how high?” and will oppose even the most modest proposals to deal with gun crime.

    3) This shooting closely followed an even bigger loss of life in Las Vegas with absolutely zero impact on any movement on gun control so why would a further “false flag” operation have any different outcome?

    Given these facts, who do these idiots think is orchestrating these spectacularly ineffective “false flag” operations and why?

    • Gussie Jives

      That George Soros is just that good at staging mass shootings. He’s on the phone with the crisis actors every day.

  • Aileen

    AR-15’s are really good for what they’re designed to do – killing large numbers of people (or, I guess, herds of other people-sized mammals?) quickly. We should ask ourselves if that’s something we want the average American to be able to do. If not, they should be regulated like fully-automatic machine guns. Sure, a determined person could kill dozens or even hundreds of people with bombs made with fertilizer (I’ve heard, no way I’m googling that!) but fertilizer has a totally different primary use. AR-15’s are for killing people, end of story.

    • Maybe

      I know. A lot of those who are for what the right wing calls “gun control” don’t really want that much control. We want military weapons kept out of civilian hands. And we want universal background checks so that violent and unstable people can’t easily get guns.

      So the right translates this into “Them librals wanna take all our guns!!!!!!”

      The Repubs have become a cult. They will not compromise. The consider that anything goes when you’re fighting against evil outsides. They have set up Congress on the presumption that non-Repubs should get no representation at all–that’s what reconciliation does. (Well, it would if they could actually pass anything.)

      Our society and our government can’t function like this. Please vote Dem in 2018 even if you’re not crazy about the candidate. We probably can’t retake the Senate, but the House is doable and would help a lot.

      • Last Hussar

        Fertilizer bombs need something (I’m not telling what) that can only be obtained by licenced people who have a legitimate need.

      • Aileen

        I totally agree the Democratic party remains the only viable means of forcing change on gun violence prevention and a host of other issues I care about. It is better to vote for a mediocre Democrat than not vote at all, or vote third party, or vote for a moderate Republican (hah hah hah like that’s an option). For better or worse, my Senators and Rep are all Democrats, in fact my state has only one Republican Rep and things are looking a little dicy for for him.

        • Methadras

          You realize that’s a nonsensical idea right? Democrats had in 2009-2010 the house, the senate, and the presidency and yet nothing was done. Not one thing. Democrats are the party of prescriptions, not actual action. They screed a good game, but when the rubber meets the road, they don’t want to take the responsibility for actually doing something and having it fail.

          For decades leftists have culminated their ideology in that legislating behavior was a non-starter. After all, wasn’t that the hallmark writ large when Lawrence v. Texas (2003) came into play? Now the left wants to regulate or eliminate the 2A as a means to regulate behavior, as one of their own, kills 26, injures 20+ more and then tried to pin it on the right as a function of how horrid republicans/conservatives are? Oh, i’m sure as people are going to read this, there will be the usual suspects who will deny that any such thing occurred, but go ahead and feed that cognitive dissonance monster some more. He’s so large now I’m shocked the DNC headquarters hasn’t broken apart at the seams trying to contain it.

          We do have a gun problem in this country, but it isn’t a right wing problem, it’s a left wing problem. Leftists letting their rage and hate eat away at their sanity are the issue. Nearly to a shooting that has gained notoriety, they were all perpetrated by leftists. Keep moving the goal posts, so scoring a touchdown for your anti-gun gloating only takes one yard to do.

          • Zippy49

            “one of their own?” I’ve never seen more pretzel logic.

          • Methadras

            Pretzel logic? Where? I was pretty clear. He was a radical Marxist progressive atheist collectivist domestic terrorist member of antifa. All the checkbox hallmarks of the modern democrat party faithful. He posted his a picture with his AK47 toting cadre on 4chan the day before he was going to execute those people in that church proclaiming that something big was coming ‘tomorrow’ and that was it. He hoped to spark a civil war in the hopes of believing he was going to become a hero to the resistance?

            Never mind the fact that he was a dishonorably discharge sub-human piece of sh*t that was arrested for abusing his step son by cracking his skull and wife beater on top of that, but you go on ahead living up to the stereotype of denying reality when it comes to the facts as they stand. Very typical of your ilk, your party, and your ideology. Continue to support the collective leftist temper tantrum that is actually killing good, honest people. This is on you too.

          • insolenttomato

            (a) The people rallying to the defense of guns are all on the right.

            (b) Your ad hominem attacks are wrongheaded. Methinks you’re projecting when you say people on the left are “living up to the stereotype of denying reality when it comes to the facts as they stand.”

            https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/06/google-youtube-texas-shooting-fake-news

            https://www.snopes.com/texas-church-shooter-antifa/

            Where did you find your false information? Breitfart?

            Hopefully you’re just a second rate troll. Otherwise, methinks the “meth” in your name is all too apt. Go clutch your pearls elsewhere.

          • Methadras

            (a) People on the right are defending their 2A rights to own firearms for the natural right of self-defense at a minimum from radical marxist progressive collectivists who want to see them disarmed, not for the sake of preventing shootings, but to impose their will against a vast segment of society because they are seen as a bulwark for stopping leftist ideology. Which we know is one of death and control.

            (b) This is not projection but a historical context of leftist screeds that have gone on for decades. Leftists/Marxists love their narratives and storylines, this is no different.

            I don’t require leftist news sources as being an authority to characterize who the shooter was. I know his type, I know his kind. I know how they think, I know what they believe. The only thing missing from his photo was a fedora to hat tip. And saying methinks just makes you an incorrect smug douche. Good day.

          • insolenttomato

            “Which we know is one of death and control.”
            Citation needed

            “Leftists/Marxists love their narratives and storylines, this is no different.”
            Citation needed

            “I know his kind. I know how they think, I know what they believe.”
            You lost me at “ilk” and “kind.” Othering, FTW!

            Snopes isn’t a leftist source. One of the founders has gone full libertarian. Try again, and get a sense of humor this time. Your trolling is getting better, though.

          • Methadras

            Please, your rebuttal is nothing more than transparent misdirection and rabbit hole depth gauging. My statements stand as they are. Choose to accept or ignore.

          • insolenttomato

            Based on your histrionitcs, I’m gonna go with ignore, and figure there’s a reason the banhammer hasn’t come down on you just yet.

          • Methadras

            First of all, learn to spell the word you pretend to understand to characterize my comments by, which would still make you wrong in using it to begin with. But I suspect you are wrong a lot about a lot of things in life and in thought, but I digress.

            Second of all, there is zero reason to ban me other than what I’ve said, but that would be typical of you overly sensitive types who can’t deal with reality so it’s better to make the those you disagree with go away vs. actually trying to learn things, which shallow thinking leftists like you have a hard time doing. You know because of preconceived notions that you get from your daily instructions on how to think from places like Wonkette.

        • Maybe

          Too many liberals play Russian Roulette with their vote. I’m not sure what the payoff is–feeling good about being too pure to compromise?

          That is bad thinking. When the choice is between a mild ego buzz and a President Trump, don’t take the risk. Trump is America’s bullet through the brain.

          If we have to elect mediocre or even Blue Dog Dems to win in 2018 it’s the smart thing to do. House and Senate control are determined by party headcount and even Blue Dogs have heads.

          • Aileen

            To this day, I have progressive friends turning up their noses at the Democratic party, for what they see as dirty politics. Yes, of course it would be great to have campaign finance reform so deals like the one struck between the Clinton campaign and the DNC wouldn’t be necessary. But until then, we have to play by the rules of the game to maximize our chances of winning. We can’t let perfect be the enemy of good.

          • Maybe

            My understanding is that the deal between the Clinton campaign was the same deal they gave to Sanders. The difference is that she raised money for the DNC and he didn’t, so she got money from them and some say-so over staffing.

            We need progressives to understand that winning elections counts and that when there are only two options, refusing to vote for one helps the other. Your friends helped Donald Trump.

            Re cheating in politics, I’d say don’t be the one to start it, but feel free to join in if the other side does. Politics is not about purity. It’s about winning.

            I think there’s something in game theory that says you may want to reflect your opponent’s moves. Dems aren’t good at that. I still remember how Kerry let himself by Swift-boated and took a long time to fight back. This country will elect a bully over a wimp every time.

      • SisterArtemis

        The Repubs have become a cult.

        Yep. And we’d be better off if we’d look at the GOP in this light more often.

  • UnsaltedSinner
    • Calling the 26 dead “martyrs” rather than “victims,” guarantees higher church attendance in the future.

    • GHERKINS du RESISTANCE!

      Jesus!

      I suppose I should support FOX News personalities doing reviews of the best places to get shot, but I just CAN’T EVEN with this shit.

    • Sunhead

      Remember that these Xtians are End Times Xtians. They believe that the end of the world as told in Revelations is here, now, or real soon now. This kind of thing is just proof. Environmental collapse is proof. The sooner it comes, the sooner the chosen ones get rescued and the rest of us get all of those plagues and flaming things.
      From an Atheist’s perspective, they have become a suicide cult like Jim Jones and the Peoples Temple. And they are in control right now.

    • jaspersdad

      Assholes are complicit in easy access to guns for all.

    • TakingAmes

      Immediately after which, she uncrossed her legs and gave us a beaver shot, a la Sharon Stone. Because why not?

    • SilBot64

      But is she PERSONALLY willing to test her own theory? Or does it just sound good to her ears coming out of her mouth when she’s talking about people she’s never seen?

    • HooverVilles

      Good dsylexic doG these people are reprehensible.

  • Persistent Tennessee Rain

    If only there was some way to predict who might become a violent person and commit these types of crimes.

    • the_steamer

      Like being dishonorably discharged or beating your wife and kids. If only we knew who did that.

  • the_steamer

    I’m just sick watching this turn into a feel good story about guns. A good guy stopped this bad guy from shooting any more than the 46 he already shot. Win/win!

    In New York, a city with far greater population density than rural Texas, a man determined to kill as many people as he could only managed to kill 7 innocent bike riders. Why? Because he couldn’t get a gun.

    Making guns harder to access saves many more innocent lives than good guys with guns can protect from bad guys with guns. It’s just a fact.

  • Bitter Scribe

    I found this passage on the NBC News site remarkable:

    Under federal law, anyone dishonorably discharged is not authorized to buy a gun, and [Gov. Greg] Abbott said Kelley had applied for and been denied a right-to-carry permit from the state of Texas.

    “It was after that that he was able to buy this gun … so there’s ongoing information that needs to be gathered,” Abbott said.

    Did Abbott just admit the possibility that gun laws in this country might need tightening? I never heard any right-winger come close to that before.

    Oh well. This fits the pattern of conservatives becoming very interested in things like parental leave or sexual harassment as soon as they have a baby or get harassed. (See: Kelly, Megyn)

    • Persistent Tennessee Rain

      I don’t believe he was dishonorably discharged. He was discharged for bad conduct which apparently doesn’t come with a “never allowed to purchase a gun” rule.

      • cmd resistor

        Seems if there was a disqualification it would be his DV conviction and no one seems to know why it wasn’t. Except maybe it didn’t show up on the background check and he didn’t disclose it.

      • Latverian Diplomat

        Nothing dishonorable about domestic violence, I guess?

        I realize it’s a technical term with a precise meaning in military justice, but the verbal irony is there nevertheless.

    • Molon Labe

      He was previously denied a carry permit. Then lied (a felony) on the background check so he could purchase the murder weapon. Nothing is gonna stop criminals from getting ahold of guns.

      • …pretty sure they did not bother to do an actual check if he “lied”
        I mean, they would have found out that he lied if they bothered to do the actual check.
        Also, he was not a criminal until he killed those people.
        So there is that!

  • Grokenstein

    Always too soon to talk about guns; never early enough to discuss mass deportations.

    But hey, there’s one thing here of which we should take note: the ones who are killing you don’t stop until there’s lead flying in their direction.

  • TundraGrifter

    So the best way to address this serious mental health crisis is to take insurance away from people. Got it.

    • HooverVilles

      Cha-Ching!

  • GHERKINS du RESISTANCE!

    It is too soon to talk about “the mental health problem at the highest level?”

    • LeighBowery’sLuxuryComedy

      Too late, really, but..

    • Zyxomma

      By “highest level,” I assume you mean in the White House.

  • TundraGrifter

    Back in 2014 the FBI released data that show a mass casualty event in the United States about 15 times a year. That’s less than 4 weeks apart. I guess it’s just never going to be a good time to discuss common sense solutions to a very serious problem because they keep happening so quickly.

  • Alienist

    Good ol’ Texas! I just saw on the news that someone was driving down I-35 in Austin last night shooting at cars. 4 people injured. One was a little girl. And a good time was had by all .

  • Jack Takes A Knee

    Here are some facts being thrown at your face.

    The severely mentally ill are 10 times more likely to be the victims of violence than the perpetrators. Only 3-5% of folks living with severe mental illness commit violent acts. https://www.mentalhealth.gov/basics/myths-facts/index.html

    The rush to blame violence on the mentally ill does far more damage to an already severely marginalized group. It breeds greater fear of those suffering from what is generally a very manageable spectrum of conditions It also serves to absolve the larger society of any real responsibility. When they say a violent act is a ‘mental health issue’, what they’re really saying is “It’s not us normies, it’s that crazy person, that other .” I think we all know what blaming all of societies ils on some frightening, monolithic “other” ultimately leads to.

    They dehumanize tens of millions of those already fighting for their own lives in a society that would be all-too-happy to lock them up in the snake pits of not-so-long ago. It allows for discrimination. How many of us have ever been arrested and detained without reason for simply being on psychiatric medication?

    True story, I’ll keep is brief. About twenty five years ago, I lived with this girl I was dating. She was pretty much a garbage person, just take my word for that. When I had enough, I started packing my shit,, planning to get the fuck out of there. She hit me over the head with my T.V. I called the cops. They arrived and she started listing off the meds I was on. They cuffed me and I spent 72 hours on a psych hold. I was the victim of violence, but was treated like the aggressor. It’s a lesson many of us learn along the way. We cannot count on the police to help or even listen to us.

    • Ω cynmac’s reclaiming her time

      That sucks.

    • HooverVilles

      So sorry to hear that. I hope things are better now.
      PS: you comment about gun violence and mental health is spot on.

  • glynnis bugati

    It’s always the same.

    Day 1 – Too soon
    Day 2 – Too soon
    Day 3 – Too soon
    Day 4 – Too soon
    Day 5 – Too soon
    Day 6 – Too soon
    Day 7 – It’s been a whole week! Time to move on!

    • SisterArtemis

      Day eight (or sooner): another fucking shooting.

      And, of course, these are just the ones that make the news. Lots of shootings “only” affect one or two people, usually family members, coworkers, or friends. Those get ignored by national media, but are certainly part of the pattern of gun violence.

      • glynnis bugati

        Unless it’s a Muslim or an immigrant doing the shooting at white people, then it’s the end of the world…..

    • cmd resistor

      Hey, by Day 7 if you are lucky you have a whole new shooting, so you have to start over. So, in the Biggest/Most contest, this is not only the biggest mass shooting in Texas, but also possibly the largest church shooting. If they keep breaking it down into categories, everyone can be a winner. Oh, it all sucks.

    • Ω cynmac’s reclaiming her time

      I have not seen anyone mention the New York attack today. Just Texas.

    • The NY Times has a great op-ed piece today.

      It’s basically a bunch of “clock” things that show the number of days since each mass shooting since Sandy Hook, and it asks the same question. When IS it time to talk about gun control?

  • WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot

    Meanwhile the gun golems squat in their caves murmuring to their preciouses and the ring wraith la Pierre plots the doom of the U.S. from Mordred.

  • SisterArtemis

    As others here have noted, people with mental illness are MUCH more likely to be the victims, rather than the perpetrators of violence. Funny how we conflate all different kinds of mental illness into one big lumpy pile.

    However, the connection between mass shootings and domestic violence is much more consistent. I was going to try to find a great article I read a year or more ago about this connection, but can’t remember the author, so my googling efforts were for naught. However, try googling “link between domestic violence and gun violence” and you’ll get quite the assortment. And in the article I read those many months ago, the author also drew a connection between gender and gun violence – not that women have been completely out of the picture, but perpetrators are overwhelmingly men.

    There’s something seriously wrong with the way too many people are raising our young men in this society, and my hunch is that most folks won’t bother to look that far. Yes, we need effective gun regulation, but there’s a bigger picture here, and I fear it will continue to be ignored.

    • cmd resistor

      I just read an article that said fellow classmates said he was medicated in junior and high school and people are not surprised….but who knows what that even means.

    • Ω cynmac’s reclaiming her time
    • Zyxomma

      One of my FB friends asked, EVEN BEFORE THIS HAPPENED, “Why are we not vetting white men? They commit most of the violent crimes, especially mass shootings.”

    • darnyoudarnyoutoheck

      Many upfists. Guns also don’t as give as much opportunity for sober second thought as other methods of suicide do. Hence American men tending to have a high “success” rate per suicide attempt.

    • Interestingly, Samantha Bee just had a piece on the shootings and domestic violence issue:

      http://youtu.be/iBuKbe40uWM

      Which, you will note, aired LAST WEEK.

    • SisterArtemis

      Found it, thanks to a post late tonight linking to a Twitter thread that referenced the same article:

      What Mass Killers Really Have in Common, by Rebecca Traister

  • William
    • Ω cynmac’s reclaiming her time

      Why Not Both?

  • Molon Labe

    They say he suffered from mental illness? No shit…. I’d say anyone who goes on a murderous rampage is a nutcase. No chance he was taking an SRI……

    • cmd resistor

      They always just throw out the phrase, along with the thoughts and prayers, and feel like they’ve done their duties.

      • HooverVilles

        EGGGG-SACTLY!

    • TakingAmes

      This is what gets me. Well, this among many others. Okay, if we have a mental health issue in this country, what are we doing about it? Nothing, because we have to give tax breaks to billionaires, who likely won’t even notice them.

      • Molon Labe

        Mental health is big business. Don’t expect that business-model to conform to effectiveness.

      • Maybe

        Actually Trump and the Repubs plan to cut funding for both mental health and opioid treatment.

        Technically that is doing something.

    • HooverVilles

      This is very tragic and my heart goes out to the families. But I can just hear the “thoughts and prayers”, from people who say that to make themselves feel like they are doing something without actually doing anything concrete, arriving in 3…2…1

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b0e5cd0a85c5146664e7c093db34c36db8d269e847e8de8f3b5807705c4e2402.jpg

  • Juan de Fuca

    Remember back in the halcyon days of 1994, when even Saint Ronnie pleaded for a ban on military style assault weapons?

    Plea From 3 Ex-Presidents
    The letter from three former presidents to the House:
    May 3, 1994

    To Members of the U.S. House of Representatives:
    We are writing to urge your support for a ban on the domestic manufacture of military-style assault weapons. This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety. Although assualt weapons account for less than 1% of the guns in circulation, they account for nearly 10% of the guns traced to crime.
    Every major law enforcement organization in America and dozens of leading labor, medical, religious, civil rights and civic groups support such a ban. Most importantly, poll after poll shows that the American public overwhelmingly support a ban on assault weapons. A 1993 CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll found that 77% of Americans support a ban on the manufacture, sale, and possession of semi-automatic assault guns, such as the AK-47.
    The 1989 import ban resulted in an impressive 40% drop in imported assault weapons traced to crime between 1989 and 1991, but the killing continues. Last year, a killer armed with two TEC9s killed eight people at a San Francisco law firm and wounded several others. During the past five years, more than 40 law enforcement officers have been killed or wounded in the line of duty by an assault weapon.
    While we recognize that assault weapon legislation will not stop all assault weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals. We urge you to listen to the American public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of these weapons.
    Sincerely,
    Gerald R. Ford
    Jimmy Carter
    Ronald Reagan

    http://articles.latimes.com/1994-05-05/news/mn-54185_1_assault-weapons-ban/2

    • Zyxomma

      But … but … but Reagan had dementia.

  • CATMAN

    Just a quick question for those “Jesus Is Lord” folks: Was Jesus taking a nap while this went down or maybe he was taking a dump, maybe he was just off duty that day, so He didn’t intervene while the faithful were gunned down

    • Molon Labe

      The shooter was an atheists. Guess that worked out well for him.

      • The shooter was in the air force and a bible school teacher.
        You chuckle heads need to get your shit together, you suck at this fake news thing

        • HooverVilles

          -sactly!

        • Molon Labe

          See above buzzfeed.

      • HooverVilles

        Shooter was a bible school teacher not atheist. You must be listening to one or more of Breitbart, info-wars, Drudge, El Rushbo, FOX, etc

        • Molon Labe

          “ex”-bible school teacher. Looks like he spent a “month” in that position at some point. Guess you missed that tidbit over at buzzfeed.

          However, he WAS an atheist before going full blown murder douche bag. Guess buzzfeed’s bait and switch got you on that one eh? The hoax was that he was on the DNC payroll, not that he was an atheist.

          There are plenty of sources for that information beyond the sites you list. Heres a few I found by using a thing called Google.

          “Texas church shooter was a militant atheist”
          http://nypost.com/2017/11/06/ex-friends-say-shooter-was-creepy-atheist-who-berated-religious-people/

          “Mr. Kelley had become vocally anti-Christian, to the point where many stopped communicating with him. His Facebook page, which has been deleted, listed that he liked a number of atheist groups”
          https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/06/us/devin-patrick-kelley-texas.html

          • HooverVilles

            What exactly does being an atheist have to do with this? Absolutely nothing! Gun violence is perpetrated by people of all beliefs.

          • Molon Labe

            What does being murdered have to do with being religious? Absolutely nothing.

            If the murder of innocent people can be a vehicle to criticize the victim’s religion. Then the douche-bag murder’s beliefs should be fair game.

      • Maybe

        I think I understand your “logic.” Clearly you decide first what you want to believe and then believe it without any supporting facts.

        For example:
        All atheists are evil people.
        This guy was evil.
        Therefore this guy was an atheist.

        https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/87/Fallacy-of-the-Undistributed-Middle

        • Molon Labe

          I don’t think atheists are evil.

          Its been reported in several venues that he was an atheist. See my post below.

          Take a second to learn up before you go on about “facts” and logic”. Ignorance isn’t a substitute for either.

          • Maybe

            You should take your own advice:
            https://www.snopes.com/texas-church-shooter-atheist-dnc-payroll/

            And if you think “several venues” is proof of anything then your “logic” is even shakier than I thought. You can find anything on the Internet if that’s what you’re looking for. It isn’t all kittens and porn.

          • Molon Labe

            Again, they are pointing out the hoax of the shooter being on the payroll of the DNC. They trace that hoax to a single source. His atheism is established by interviews with his friends as well as his social media profile. His atheism is widely reported even today, unlike the fake DNC connection which isn’t. The Wiki page for the Sutherland Springs Church Shooting alone contains 6 sources reporting his atheism.

          • Maybe

            Once again you are cherry picking, picking half the story to believe and half that you choose not to believe. The snopes sight says false to both claims together: that the shooter worked for the DNC and that the shooter was an atheist.

            A wiki page citing six sources only indicates that someone put up a wiki page and cited six sources. It does not constitute proof. Russia put up far more “proof” on the Internet in 2016.

            I’ll go with snopes.

      • Bill Diaz

        You really are an ignorant, judgemental asshat, arent you?

        Have a great day!

    • TakingAmes

      My pastor preached yesterday on the book of Micah, in which the prophet describes God as turning Her back on the evil leaders and clergy. What I took away was that there is still grace in the rage of God against injustice amongst Her children. Maybe what we feel is the grief of absence, not nonexistence. I don’t know how to answer these questions, and I certainly can’t do it eloquently. I do like the phrase “grace in rage,” though.

    • mailman27

      You don’t want to be around when Jesus takes a dump.

    • Molon Labe

      What makes you think he didn’t intervene? Maybe it was Jesus sent the two good samaritans to blast demonic atheist back to hell :)

      Bad things happen to good people all the time. Answer your question?

      Need further clarification? Run along to a Judaism forum and suggest to them that what Hitler did is proof that their faith is false.

      Then skip on over to the Islamic forums and describe to them “Mohammed taking a dump” while Isis is killing Muslims who are not fanatical enough.

      People were murdered in a church and you take it as an opportunity to criticize their religion? Thats what I call a classy hater.

      • CATMAN

        I take all opportunities to criticize all religions because they are all the same in one respect: they are all made up by humans and it shows

        • HooverVilles

          Exactly. Dsylexic doG didn’t create humans in his/her image; humans created dsylexic doG in their minds with their bronze/iron age understanding of the world.

          • Navy Corpsman ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            I’ve always thought of their writings as a collection of bedtime stories, ancient school teachings and morality lessons. There had to be someway of indoctrinating the dumb masses. The Book of Eli is a pretty powerful lesson in how a book can change the world.

            Mankind seems to want to be part of a flock. I prefer mountain goats over sheep!

          • HooverVilles

            For the most part I agree. Just from the perspective of the time i.e. bronze/iron age.
            It did not take long for the powerful to realize the usefulness of this for controlling the masses though.

          • Navy Corpsman ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Dogma. Not into it.

          • HooverVilles

            Good. Neither am I.

          • Maybe

            Catma is much better. Cats are independent.

          • Maybe

            Much of it is also an example of how fear can be used to control people.

            Still works, especially when the GOP throws in a few scapegoats to hate.

          • Navy Corpsman ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Fear of everything. It’s been a perpetual plank of Republican party policy dating back to 1946 at least.

          • Maybe

            Sadly, it works.

            Except in Virginia tonight Gillespie lost twice.

            First he lost his ethics by using Trumpian bigotry in his campaign. Then he lost the election.

            Goody!

          • Bill Diaz

            I had a chihuahua dog dog companion once and before meeting him had contempt for ‘little dogs’, preferring big smelly monsters over why I termed ‘cats in cosplay’. But as the fierceness of his spirit and his inner light became apparent to me, he forced me into respect. My nick-name for him was ‘Goat Rodent’, because my SO was a hoarder and his ability to navigate the huge piles of crap stacked everywhere like a mountain goat was a marvel to watch.

            Goats (and goat rodents) for the win!

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzKUzRJUzQ0

            Have a great day!

        • Maybe

          I don’t take all opportunities, but the current hateful state of “Christianity” in this country certainly supplies plenty of ammunition–to coin a phrase.

        • Molon Labe

          Stay classy.

      • Sure, classy hater. There are legit people saying only prayers can save us.
        Were they not praying hard enough in that church?
        Maybe we should do something….ELSE?

      • Maybe

        Of course your argument is illogical The Samaritans were a bit late on the scene to save 26 people, including a baby. That’s a piss-poor excuse for an intervention. Isn’t your god supposed to be all-knowing and all-powerful?

        And bad things happen to good people, but a minority of those bad things involve guns. We may not be able to prevent hurricanes, but we could do something about guns other than advocating prayer.

        • Molon Labe

          Well, of course my comment was only half serious. I’ll give you the benefit of choosing which half.

          On the subject of the original assertion. I have alway preferred the “can God make a rock so big that God can’t lift it” dilemma. However, science has finally determined the answer to that dilemma to be “yes”.

          Seriously though, it demonstrates a pretty rudimentary understanding of ID or “God” to believe God is supposed to protect you from everything. Ok, well then lets say God protects you from everything, now what? You live forever. There would be a race of giant, immortal, religious folk.

          • Bill Diaz

            You are A IDIOT.

            Have a great day!

      • thixotropic jerk

        You’re what I call a trolloping troll back to your under rock, Melon Label.

    • Lefty Wright

      Obviously because it was Sunday and Jesus was getting ready to watch football. That popcorn doesn’t pop itself, even if you are the Son of God.

  • Lordpnut

    Why will no one report on the Real Story here – that American terrorism is SUPERIOR to foreign terrorism. Twenty dead and about as many wounded? That’s a righteous body count by any standard. We are number ONE! Because we are WINNERS!
    Why is no one reporting on that? Why do you hate America so much?

  • chascates
    • Lefty Wright

      Easy to say when it wasn’t your lived one killed or wounded by an asshole with a semiautomatic rifle.

    • Were they not praying hard enough in that church for God to notice?

    • HooverVilles
    • Maybe

      Weren’t these victims praying (and in a church) at the time of the shooting?

      There seems to be a loophole here.

    • thixotropic jerk

      I’m praying this nation gets its head out of its collective asshole and starts passing effective gun control laws. In other words I am pissing up a rope, but thanks anyhow Sky God who “is not more powerful than nothing” (if you read that nitwit’s BS argument correctly) and especially not powerful enough to stop gun violence which happens daily, hourly, and soon each and every nanosecond once all the good gun guys become former good gun guys.

    • Jeffery Campbell

      I drove a car off a bluff once and did not die. A visitor told my Mother, “Jesus must have been in the car with your son.” to which my Mother replied, “Jesus can’t drive worth a fuck!” I miss her.

  • darnyoudarnyoutoheck

    I hate to say this, but I have become numb. The thinky part of my brain is still horrified, but the feely part just went “fuck it”.

    • HooverVilles

      I am rapidly approaching that point myself!
      SAD!

  • james crubb

    Not only is DT a great investigator, he is an accomplished Psychologist, the dear leader is all knowing, it is a crime to question his wisdom ( in these turbulent times, which he has only been trying soothe)

    • HooverVilles

      He is highly educated with the best brain, the best memory and the best words after all.
      Sigh!

  • Panika MCD

    about 13% of the town has hot lead pumped into them and it’s still too early to talk about not selling guns to mentally ill people. great. he’d better be giving us a big fucking check to cover the mental health services for this and all the people traumatized by Harvey–because plenty of them have guns also too.

    • What Pierre said

      I somehow don’t want to up vote this because that would imply I “like” the sad truths you have articulated. But yes, yes and, lemme see, um, yes. Because, also too, even if this were solely a ‘mental health’ issue (which it’s not), not funding mental health treatment is definitely the way to go. Smaller gobernverment, hell 2 the yesses! (even writing that makes me cry, don’t make me pretend to be a doctrinaire 2A person, I’ll sob).

      • Panika MCD

        we’ve been dumping money into mental health here in TX–even with a tight budget year we found extra. another interesting thing is that when we decided to put a heavy state investment into residency slots, we required residents to do a rotation in a rural clinic and now they’re asking for dual MD and MHD programs because they find rural areas need more mental health services–something that is also helpful when we need trauma informed care.

        • What Pierre said

          I was not criticising TX in particular, mental health care has become difficult in most places, praise Reagan (okay, most all places, including the not-US places).

          But obviously complex requirements must, MUST, be there to keep all those “takers” and “fakers” out of the system. /s

          • Panika MCD

            I know you weren’t criticizing the state. I’m just saying that at a certain point we are going to have to address access to guns and not just mental health because one without the other has shown little improvement.

  • The Librarian

    I heard on the radio that a third of mass shooters are mentally ill. I’m not sure if I find that scarier than the two-thirds who aren’t.

  • Delu

    When it comes to mass shootings and the like:

    NRA and Humpers: “Guns don’t kill People, People Kill People.”

    When it comes to selling guns or hell, DEFENDING against such attacks:

    NRA and Humpers: “Guns save people.”

    Let that sink in.

  • phoenix00

    He is one of Trump’s ‘Second Amendment people’

    • Methadras

      No, he is a radical marxist atheist democrat antifa scum with an abusive criminal history towards women and children and now one of mass murder. The 2A has zero to do with it, however, his deep propensity for violence makes him one of yours. Nice try though.

      • insolenttomato

        Damn, you’re a persistent one. Where did you come from? Breitbart? 4chan? Stormfront? What kind of demons do you have that you feel the need to flog this?

        • Methadras

          Why are you obsessed with where I come from. None of the places you list is even remotely accurate, but try harder. Why is it what I say illicits such a vehement need for you to act like a douche. If you disagree with me, then move on, there is nothing for you to see here or are you one of those people that can’t let go whenever you are presented with thoughts or ideas counter to your preconceived notions?

      • phoenix00

        The gross misinterpretation of the 2A, plus the USAF not documenting his discharge properly, put that AR-15 in his hands, doofus.

        And no, he is not a “radical marxist atheist democrat antifa scum”, he’s your garden-variety domestic abuser who took his domestic sitch to his in-law’s church.

        FFS please read before not-commenting. We don’t deal with Fucks Nooz talking points here.

        • Methadras

          Please, you have zero clue on the meaning of the 2A. You can’t even get past its actual wording without twisting in knots over it. Also, He was radical Marxist antifa scum. His posting of a picture on 4chan with him in it standing in front of an antifa flag with his cohorts saying something big in Texas is going to happen tomorrow as a caption. The fact that the motive was a domestic abuse situation doesn’t take away from the fact of who he was, what he did, and what his ideology is. He wasn’t a garden variety abuser, he was typical Marxist atheist humanist scum who just happened to also be a domestic abuser, who believed he was better than others because of his ideology.

          The USAF not documenting his violations has zero to do with the NRA. Your argument has zero to do with blaming the NRA. Your apparent lack of understanding of the 2A by proclaiming it a gross misinterpretation has nothing to do with the 2A. All the USAF did was prove that another massive government bureaucracy failed again to provide a modicum of protection against innocent citizens, but lets say they did put in the violation notice into the gun registry database and he wasn’t able to acquire an AR15. He most likely would have acquired one elsewhere or some other firearm illegally, which in reality still proves that your anti-gun control zealotry fails for the various laws to stop illegal acquisition of firearms. Chicago and New York being the great examples of gun control there is so far. The 2A is quite simple in its explanation notwithstanding and you want more government to create more laws to control guns?

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