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Good news! More and more Democrats are signing on to support Bernie Sanders’s Medicare For All bill! Kamala Harris is in, Elizabeth Warren is in, Sheldon Whitehouse is in, Jeff Merkley is in, and Cory Booker is co-sponsoring. And as of last night, at least 11 more top Senate Democrats are in too! Hi there Tammy Baldwin! Sup Al Franken? Lookin’ good, Kirsten Gillibrand! How’s it hanging … MAYBE JOE MANCHIN? LOLOLOL, what even the hell???

Is this the sexxxiest bill ever or what?

Hoo-boy! I do believe I have the vapours! Is it possible that Cory Booker is even handsomer now? Very excited to see who else votes for it. Bet you they will all be really, really good looking and kind and awesome.

Now, I am not wacky enough to think this bill is actually going to pass. I know it will not, because our government is chock full of sadistic Republicans who get the Ayn Rand tingles at the thought of someone losing their house because they could not afford their medical bills. Obviously, if those people really loved personal responsibility, they would have become millionaires before getting sick or injured, so they could afford all of their exorbitant medical fees.

But the Democrats are coming around to realizing that this is a very bad set-up we have here, and that even though a lot of the Affordable Care Act stuff is AWESOME, we not only can do better, we must do better.

We are human beings. We are going to get sick and we are going to get injured. You can be the healthiest, purest person in the world, and still get some terrible disease. Or, you know, get hit by a truck. We all have this in common and no one is special in this regard. We might as well all deal with our human bodily frailty as a team.

Because it’s gross that people lose their houses due to medical expenses. It’s heartbreaking to see anyone crowdfunding to afford necessary medical procedures. That should not be.

The sheer freedom that Medicare For All would bring to our country would simply be astounding. Not just freedom for pain or sickness or mental illness for those who need help and cannot afford it, but more freedom to change jobs, more freedom from fear, more freedom from debt. Hell, the anxiety and stress it would prevent alone would probably be a major boon for the health of all Americans.

Although this is mostly a symbolic vote, it’s an important one. It’s the Democrats — specifically those in the running to be the nominee in 2020 — sending us a sign that this is what they stand for. And that is very cool.

[New Republic]

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  • BosGrl

    Go, Dems, Go!

  • Zonath

    It is my sincerest hope that the details of this bill are ironed out and agreed upon well in advance of Dems taking back the House, Senate, and Presidency so that the leadership doesn’t end up looking like a bunch of Paul Ryans and Yertles and failing to even pass gas on the issue of healthcare after crowing about it for multiple years. And they’ll have to do it all in half the time the Republican’ts had, which raises the difficulty level. But at least on our side we have some Master Legislators who have some actual experience in writing bills that actually have more than a snowball’s chance of actually becoming law rather than just throwing legislative tantrums for no discernible purpose, so I’m hopeful. I just hope the impeachment proceedings next year don’t distract from the important work to be done here.

    • Chyron HR

      Bernie’s had 20+ years to write the bill. It’s going to be spectacular.

      • UncleTravelingMatt

        Oh. That’s what he’s been doing for the last 20 years.

    • ariel_gee_398

      I kind of hope they have at least the major details (and how it is paid for) before half the Democrats in the Senate sign on to it.

  • Gayer Than Thou

    Insurance is a terrible model for healthcare delivery, and for-profit businesses in that sector have an inherent conflict of interest (Restless Leg Syndrome, anyone?). That said, I can’t wait until Democrats get back to all identity politics all the time, because obviously that’s our only issue and it has nothing to do with access to healthcare.

    • ariel_gee_398

      Jesus, all the yammering about health care costs, it never occurs to these yutzes that taking the profit out of it would surely cut costs.

    • AnnieGetYerFun

      Medical care (and American opposition to it) is pretty much tied to race, anyway. Sure, there’s the howling about death panels and government doctors and whatnot, but really, it’s about expanding programs that benefit the poor and melanin-gifted.

      • Three Finger Salute

        It’s also tied to sex and, by default, religion. Americans don’t want icky girl and gay things to even be talked about, let alone funded with “their” tax dollars. We’re still mired in Reaganology where AIDS was celebrated as punishment from God for sin.

    • onedollarjuana

      Just heard Bernie’s speech about how he’s going to introduce this legislation soon, and it’s clear that the lion’s share of the savings comes from eliminating the for-profit insurance system. That industry is so strong that even the liberal Dems won’t go against it with any kind of vigor. All we can really hope for is for a non-profit alternative to be offered and let the dollars run to it.

      • ahughes798

        I’m definitely not a fan of insurance companies, but wouldn’t eliminating the for-profits put a hell of a lot of people out of work? If you eliminate their livelihoods, they aren’t gonna be too happy with the party that eliminated their livelihoods. There are hundreds of thousands of people who work for these mega insurers, probably more if you add in associated businesses. That many votes, and much less, have swung elections. Like the last one.

        Who knew that healthcare would be so complicated? /s

        • onedollarjuana

          Regardless, for basic health care insurance companies are parasites that eventually kill the host. We need to find a way to get rid of this immoral and outmoded industry.

          • ahughes798

            I agree. But it must be done strategically, and with a minimum loss of jobs or it is a hill we will die on. I think the Dems need to move on to another issue entirely, myself.

  • Wolf Tracker
    • The Rain in Spain’s Therapist

      GOP Lite Democrats? Are you paid to be here?

      • Wolf Tracker

        No, are you?

        If you don’t believe we have some GOP Lite Dems in congress you haven’t been paying attention.

        • The Rain in Spain’s Therapist

          I believe that someone who constantly bad mouths Democrats has other agendas.

          • Wolf Tracker

            I will speak truth that we have some Dems in congress with corporate ties to the insurance industry and military industry that are hurting Americans.

            Sorry you think the party has that agenda.

          • ahughes798

            Seriously? Southern Democrats are by and large conservative Democrats. They are very GOP Lite. Quite a few Western Democrats are conservative GOP Lite. You NEVER heard of Blue Dog dems? They were called “Boll Weevils” before that and “Dixiecrats” before that.These cowards have been around for a very long time. You never heard of Joe LIEberman(D-Tel Aviv)? He voted with the Repulicans a lot, most notably a critical vote to kill any chance of a Public Option? He endorsed John McCain for president. He was still a registered Dem when he ran as an Independent. Good Lord.

    • AnnieGetYerFun

      I honestly don’t have the ability to analyze these figures, because I was told there would be no math. However, I do have a few friends who are into medical informatics and stats, and they believed that Sanders plan didn’t have the data to back up the promises. That said, I truly want single-payer healthcare to be implemented in the US.

      Clinton’s comments evoke one of those situations where I knew I would vote for a politician and HOPE that they were just pandering to the middle to get elected. That’s how I felt about Obama’s stance on gay marriage (and my hedge worked out on that one). As much as I hate our current political system, that is how the game seems to be played.

      • ariel_gee_398

        FWIW, the specific Sanders plan is extremely generous on benefits with no funding sources identified yet: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/9/13/16296656/bernie-sanders-single-payer

        • AnnieGetYerFun

          Right – that’s what they were getting at. It ended up being a HUGE issue between my Bernie bro husband and these friends of mine.

          It’s not to say that it CAN’T be done; obviously it can.

        • Chyron HR

          The next bird that God sends to his chosen one will come with a $100 billion check tied to its leg. There’s your funding.

        • CripesAmighty

          You fund it through additional Medicare taxes and premiums from participants (a fraction of premiums to the private rackets). Significant revenues can be achieved by lifting the cap, allowing the rich to escape taxes on most income.

          • ahughes798

            Yes. Lift the income cap and raise taxes on the wealthy. Cut the military budget 5%, and eliminate their private contractors That’s how I think we should pay for it.

    • Robyn Pennacchia

      Just wanna be clear here. Obama *did not want* Single Payer and never ran on it. Clinton ran on it in 2008. It was one of the main differences between the two at the time.

      Clinton advocated for universal health care for most of her time as a public person. She tried, and, unfortunately, failed. I think because of that, she saw it as a losing issue in 2016 and decided against continuing to push it.

      • AnnieGetYerFun
      • Roadstergal

        She worked damn hard on it in the ’90s, and it killed me in 2016 to see her record on it smeared beyond all recognition.

        • AnnieGetYerFun

          Right? And she watched Obama get dragged through the mud for it and was, like, FUCK THAT. I don’t blame her, but it’s a damn shame.

      • ariel_gee_398

        And this is her current thinking – basically lower the age for Medicare eligibility and expand Medicaid to get everyone some form of coverage, then get to work on making it better. Heck, lowering the age for Medicare eligibility may even help with the people who are 50+ and unemployed.
        https://twitter.com/ezraklein/status/907945430587203585

        • jesterpunk

          http://lacesandlattes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/tumblr_lmpj7bdnq71qj0zk3o1_500.gif

          We don’t need no stinking details for thing, it just had to fit on a bumper sticker.

          • ariel_gee_398

            I mean, if Bernie’s plan is a negotiating starting point, cool, I think we can get somewhere. (And for what it’s worth I do think the starting point of Obamacare was too far to the center, but understand the desire to do SOMETHING quickly because their Congressional majority was fragile.) But I think she’s right about people’s reactions. We may be broadly in favor of universal coverage, but I haven’t seen any polling on how many people are willing to pay more taxes to fund it. I just hope he’s not intractable.

          • jesterpunk

            I listened to her interview on pod saves America yesterday and she is right, when you put up a plan you need to be able to provide details and answer questions about that plan. And part of it is how will you pay for it, the CNN article says raising taxes on everyone which wont sit well with the poor people barely making it now. And state expansions wont work as we saw with the ACA, red states will do everything they can to sabotage it.

          • Three Finger Salute

            Lol, Jimmy Fallon at, what was he, 16?

      • Wolf Tracker

        Obama “”I happen to be a proponent of a single-payer universal health care program. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its gross national product on health care, cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody. ”

        Clinton “The last thing we need is to throw our country into a contentious debate about health care again. We are not England. We are not France,”

        • AnnieGetYerFun

          There’s the timing on that, though. Obama’s statements were in 2003. Clinton’s were in 2016. A LOT changed in the 13 years in between. They both altered their stances in order to get elected. Obama did not run a national campaign with single-payer as a must have. He DID speak favorably about it.

          • Wolf Tracker

            Clinton went soft on the issue at the exact time when Liberals and Independents were pushing for it.

            It cost her in the election and 60% of Americans are on board with Medicare for all and growing.

          • AnnieGetYerFun

            It cost her the votes of many liberals. I don’t know many of her more conservative voters would have skipped voting for her if she had pushed single-payer.

          • PubOption

            Repubs will insist that any premiums paid for Extended-Medicare are taxes “Warren’s proposal will raise taxes on a working family by $ 800 a month.” Dems must refer to payments as premiums “Our plan will reduce your healthcare premiums from $1200 a month to $800”

          • AnnieGetYerFun

            Haha, Dems will never do that!

      • CripesAmighty

        Clinton’s first attempt back in the 90s, revolved around the idea of ‘managed competition’. With a Byzantine structure similar to that of Obamacare–to maintain the vig for the private insurance industry– failure arose from the inherent complexity of the thing, and the insurance rackets stabbing Hillz in the back after tacitly agreeing to support the measure (see: ‘Harry and Louise’).

    • CripesAmighty

      Can’t believe more people don’t cite PNHP, who have done the most in depth work on this for decades (disclosure: served on PNHP board of directors and speakers bureau in early ’90s).

  • James Baskin

    I still don’t understand how the business community isn’t behind this. Health insurance costs are killer.

    • grindstone

      Because insurance is a business unto itself, and companies can keep employees cowed by using benefits as a stick disguised as a carrot.

      • James Baskin

        Im not buying it. If they can increase profits, these people will sell out their own mother.

    • ariel_gee_398

      Inertia. Changing systems is going to cause a lot of short and mid-term upheaval. Whole industries will be eliminated. Health care providers will have to figure out new income streams. Businesses will have to figure out a new benefits system, potentially retraining HR employees. They’ll also have to offer new incentives to employees if health care isn’t a benefit.
      Or they could do nothing and continue to make a shit ton of money.

      • James Baskin

        One of the problems with business today is they aren’t satisfied to make money. They want to make obscene amounts of money. Show them a way to cut costs, they’ll be on it like white on rice. They will not care who gets crushed under the wheels.

      • MrTusks

        Actually, I think a request to stop paying my healthcare premium would be the only request my HR department would comply with instantly. The incentive is that I get my employee contribution back.

      • Daniel Hoy

        I’d rather they do nothing and continue to make a shit ton of money because every year our profit share program is hitting upwards of 15% of annual salary. Additionally, my healthcare program costs me a lot less than the increase in taxes I would pay under a socialized, government healthcare entitlement, with poor service and quality.
        Middle-class, American taxpayers know Lefties want us and our employers to pony up for their Liberal / Socialist / Progressive healthcare entitlements. And next comes the “free college”, and “free housing”. It never ends with Lefties.

    • AnnieGetYerFun

      People who aren’t forced to stay in a shitty job because of benefits would be free to find other work. So companies would have to treat employees better.

      • James Baskin

        Let’s see…. Treat employees better and make more money OR treat employees as always and make less money. Hmmmm… which one will I choose?

        • grindstone

          My anecdotal evidence says companies ain’t that smart.

          • James Baskin

            ‘Anecdotal’ being the key word.

        • AnnieGetYerFun

          Well, I know what they usually choose.

    • Roadstergal

      They’re doing just fine hiring ‘contractors’ and ‘part-time employees.’

      • James Baskin

        That’s only for the low level jobs. The managers on up get insurance. It costs an astronomical amount of money. And it keeps going up and up and up. If the gov’t could put caps on costs and provide stability, it would be a big help to them.

      • Three Finger Salute

        And then firing them in favor of robots.

  • Resistance Fighter Callyson

    Now, I am not wacky enough to think this bill is actually going to pass.

    No, but the road back to power is paved with forward-thinking policies. Fight on, Dems!

    • SterWonk

      Relatedly, I think we shouldn’t judge anyone too harshly for preferring the market-based Heritage/Romney/Obamacare plan versus single-payer, especially eight years ago. Among the many things the ACA did was shift the Overton Window about healthcare to the left for once, making the current push for single-payer seem much more credible.

    • Daniel Hoy

      The road back to power is paved with economic policies that working, taxpaying, middle-class Americans want such as job creation, sensible tax policy, less stifling regulations, ect……. But by all means, PLEASE, fight on Dems…………. It makes your continuing political losses that much more rewarding!!!!

      • Resistance Fighter Callyson

        Yes, the American people do want working economic policies, which is one reason why public approval ratings for both Donald and the GOP Congress keep declining as Americans take a closer look behind their rhetoric and see the handouts for the rich that don’t help the economy at all.

        Also: LOL…political losses like picking up those special elections in NH and OK in districts that were strongly for Trump last year? Go ahead and roll with that, troll: ha!

        • Daniel Hoy

          Don’t need too. Those 1,000+ seats you Libiturds lost since 2010 speak a lot more than those 2 seats. Ha!

  • grindstone

    The best admin that ever worked for me came into my office and told me she didn’t want to, but she had to leave us because she was offered a permanent position with another company that provided benefits, and she had a chronic medical condition. (Our company would only offer her a contract position to avoid those pesky benefit costs.) I told her of course she had to go, and I wished her well. Because of that, we lost the person who literally kept our office going, and ended losing the time and $$s running around trying to do the things she did for us – -probably in excess of what it would have cost us to keep her as a full time employee.

    Taking the benefits scimitar from above our heads will change the way business is done in the US.

    Oh, and yeah, I’m moderately back online – house has no power, no AC and no internet. Work has power and internet but no AC. Oh well.

    • Beanz&Berryz

      We don’t have AC at the house either, but haven’t for 100 years, literally, so we’re OK.

      • grindstone

        I’mma go out on a limb here and say, not Florida. Am I right?

        • Beanz&Berryz

          Almost opposite corner… nationally

    • Lefty Wright

      Depending on what her salary was, the ACA could help. I ran into the same problem years ago with no company insurance and having to take a job I did not like because it had benefits. But with financial assistance, a lot of coverage under the ACA is affordable. I think that this should extend to some higher incomes. Even if you make $70,000 a year, paying up to $1,400 a month for health insurance is a pinch. There should be a cap of no more than 12% to 14% of net income.

  • Resistance Fighter Callyson

    We are human beings. We are going to get sick and we are going to get injured. You can be the healthiest, purest person in the world, and still get some terrible disease.

    Tell me about it…I am complaining loudly to anyone who will listen about the knee injury that is driving me finally to make a doctor’s appointment today. Without Obamacare I’d be relying on naproxen (tried that–useless) and booze (ditto.) Suck it, deleted commenters, and keep fighting, Dems!

    • Daniel Hoy

      “deleted commenters”……………….. The only way a Liberal / Socialist / Progressive knows how to debate, by silencing any view-points other than what fits your agenda. “Resistance Fighter”, yea, on Mommy’s computer while living in her basement. Get a job and learn some responsibility Buttercup. Better yet, the military is offering all the “free stuff” you Libitards feel entitled too, so why don’t you go and enlist to serve the very country that gives you the Freedoms and Liberties to whine like an entitled little Snowflake.

      • Resistance Fighter Callyson

        Hi troll! How do you like the infighting among the GOP that saved Obamacare after all? I’m guessing you like that just as much as you like the fact that Obamacare’s popularity is rising in the polls, ha ha ha…

        • Daniel Hoy

          Ah, those same polls that predicted your Comrade Clinton would win the Presidency. You must still be licking the Liberal-Aid off the inside of her thighs and cankles……… Stay forever thirsty!

  • Scooby

    Unfortunately, I think the US is going to need a wake up call. I think it’s not until some airborne epidemic kills a lot of people that people will finally realise that the guy that just coughed and infected everyone didn’t seek medical attention because of cost.

    • Roadstergal

      You’re overestimating the US population. We have an airbone epidemic that kill tens of thousands of people each year, and it doesn’t drive anyone to even get their flu shot.

      • Scooby

        I was thinking something more in the millions.

      • Three Finger Salute

        Unfortunately it’s not just cons either. Plenty of granola-munching Paltrow/McCarthy “natural health” lunatics on the left are also on the anti-vaxer train. Robert fucking DeNiro made an anti-vaxer documentary that he premiered at Tribeca. Stupidity knows no political affiliation and Hollywood is ground zero for that.

  • Dr. Rrrrrobotnik

    I’m glad this is happening, tho I’m still skeptical that Medicare for all would drive down costs a huge amount, since its pay structure (more tests = more money reimbursed to the hospital and doctors specifically) is in large part responsible for the humongous growth in health care costs over the last few decades. Medicare for all wouldn’t fix that.

    Not to mention, to amend Medicare to change the pay structure would face determined resistance from insurance companies, hospital administration, and doctors, who personally profit from the system. It’s a difficult thing to mention, but it needs to be said: doctors and administrators becoming fantastically wealthy is a recent phenomenon that accounts for nearly half of health care costs. As an example, the medical profession complains that at present there’s a shortage of doctors: what they won’t tell you is that they created that situation in order to make more money via scarcity. Between 1980 and 2000 the U.S. population grew by 50 million people. The number of new medical schools established during that period? Zero.

    The healthcare industry we now possess is a titanic, money-sucking beast. And since money is politics now, that means there will be resistance to a meaningful change to Medicare that will dwarf the resistance to Obamacare. I really do hope this will happen, but I’m still gunshy after 2009. This won’t be easy.

    • CripesAmighty

      Nope. Sure won’t. And it won’t happen soon, but if we can get the facts on the table, the Overton window of the conversation can move.

    • AnnieGetYerFun

      CMS has been forcing hospitals to work toward bundled payments; the carrot involves outcomes as opposed to fee-for-service. The stick is brought down when a patient gets iatrogenic complications or is readmitted within 30 days of treatment.

      There are many ways to bring medical costs down in addition to these measures; the problem is that Congress would rather bitch and moan about socialism than actually implement any of them.

  • “Medicare For All” is a moniker even the trump supporters might be able to understand.

    It’ll be hard for the Regressives to spin it as a failure given that it works wonders for millions of Americans already.

    • jesterpunk

      “Keep your government hands off my medicare.”

    • CripesAmighty

      The key part that Trumpanzees are too stupid to grasp is that they’d get better coverage for a LOT less than the health insurance rackets.

      • VirginiaWackelpudding

        But only bla welfare queens and dirty faced children use Medicaid! Oh HELL NO!

      • Daniel Hoy

        The key part that Libiturds are too stupid to grasp is that they’d get poor coverage for a LOT more in taxes than their employer-sponsored health insurance. Working, middle-class Americans just do not want to take on the added responsibility, and costs, of your health, as well as education, living standards, and all the other “free stuff” you Lefties feel entitled to. This is just one of the reasons you Lefties have been losing elections, and will continue to do so……….

        • CripesAmighty
          • Daniel Hoy

            Ah, sucking your Liberal-Aid from the crotch-faucet of the Lefty Rag Mag “The Atlantic”. Stay
            forever thirsty my low-educated, and loony Liberal friend! Your lost logic
            brings me and millions of other hardworking American taxpayers, great comedy
            each and every day!

        • CripesAmighty

          You people really are colossal idiots: “Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it.” –Charlie Pierce.
          The destructive power of morons is much like nuclear fission: exponential as they’re gathered together.
          https://qz.com/1022831/why-doesnt-the-united-states-have-universal-health-care/

          • Daniel Hoy

            So you are correctly identifying yourself as a Liberal moron. Sweet…….

          • CripesAmighty

            ‘I know you are, but what am I.” Positively Churchillian.

    • Wolf Tracker

      Even Republicans love Medicare and they understand how it works.

      Just don’t call it single payer or they will call you a communist and hit you with their canes.

      The Dems need to get Trump on board and I think he would do it for a win and still keep his base.

      • Daniel Hoy

        Won’t happen. The ever increasing Trump base (me included) already know how you Lefties like to spin words to suit your needs…….!

    • Old town Urbandale

      And today’s insurers would retool to offer a wide array of Medicare supplement policies. Buy this policy and gain access to boutique providers and hospitals so you don’t have to mix with the hoi polloi, or buy this policy to get free health club memberships and other bonuses (at the cost of only seeing our contracted providers)…

      • CripesAmighty

        Or they can meet their rightful demise and redeploy their well developed skills as bill collectors or pulling the wings off flies.

        • Daniel Hoy

          “bill collectors or pulling the wings off flies”…………Ah, the description of a Liberal….!

          • CripesAmighty

            Had fun on your brief exposure to Decency? That’s nice. Now you can go back to jerking off to Atlas Shrugged and the curvy couch bottle blondes.

          • Daniel Hoy

            That sounds like something you are intimately familiar with……..

    • shivaskeeper

      It doesn’t work though. The narrative we will be up against is going to be the cherry picked stories of Medicare fucking up either through bureaucratic inaction and red tape, or horror stories of bad medical outcomes, and similar.

      Be ready to counter that as it crops up. The idea that the whole system is already broken and insolvent is already prevalent. It’s going to be a hard fight.

    • Daniel Hoy

      “Personal Responsibility” is a moniker that you Lefties do not understand.

  • ariel_gee_398
    • Marceline

      Does it cover abortion? It can’t because of the Hyde Amendment can it?

      • ariel_gee_398

        No. That’s an issue Medicare sidesteps since no one is of birthing age. Medicaid is partially state-funded, so depending on where you live, it may or may not cover abortion services.

    • AnnieGetYerFun

      Does it? Because I was chatting with my dad about this, and Medicare covers stuff like extractions, but not fillings (at least that’s what Dad told me, he could be getting senile).

      Oral health is an issue that I really wish I had thought more about when I was in school. There are very few more obvious social markers than teeth, and if I could do everything over again, I would have become a dentist and done a shitload of pro bono work.

      • ariel_gee_398

        Yeah, it covers dental and vision. And no copays. So in those respects much more generous than our current Medicare system.

        • AnnieGetYerFun

          Right, sorry, I wasn’t clear. What I meant was, does it cover stuff the way regular insurance would? (I know that’s badly phrased). For instance, my dental plan pays 80% of the cost of needed treatments, including fillings and crowns. But my dad (sorry to sue him as a source, but he’s a retired physician and on Medicare) was saying that if you have a rotten tooth, Medicare will pay to have it yanked, but not to fix it.

        • Daniel Hoy

          “much more generous” = lets soak those working, middle-class suckers for more taxes………. Yep.

  • Spotts1701, Nothingburger Chef

    I’m cautiously optimistic. There are some details that I think need to be dealt with first that aren’t really clear in this particular bill (for one, the Hyde Amendment issues that would need to be dispensed with first are going to require a concerted effort against an entrenched opposition). It’s a good first step.

  • CripesAmighty

    And, maybe, just maybe, this group of folks’ll be able to drill it into folks heads that a little more taxes plus a small Medicare premium isn’t a bad thing if you’re not shoveling a grand a month into the health insurance rackets’ pockets. Hint: more net money for YOU.

    • shivaskeeper

      If they or we can figure out how to not say the word tax when explaining it, it might be a winner. Plus overcoming the paranoid idiocy of death panels 30+ years of government is the cause of all the problems.

      IOW, they is still going to be a lot of work to be done.

      • CripesAmighty

        Death Panel=Insurance company ‘claims specialist’.

        • shivaskeeper

          I understand that. But Palin et al unleashed the image of death panels on us. That is one more thing to overcome,

        • Daniel Hoy

          Death Panel = Socialist Government controlled “healthcare specialist”.

          • CripesAmighty

            You don’t understand ‘perverse incentives’, or numbers, do you? The insurance model is based on collecting premiums and denying service. And, as has been exhaustively shown, this system costs twice that of any other industrialized nation with worse outcomes.
            But go ahead and keep paying twice for the satisfaction of knowing its denied to others. WingNut logic.

          • Daniel Hoy

            My satisfaction is knowing that in America, I have the individual freedom from having to be forced to pay much more in taxes so you can have your “free” gender re-assignment surgery! Learn to take responsibility for your own life Buttercup.

          • CripesAmighty

            Guess what, dummy, you’re probably already paying for it as such procedures are covered by most major plans when properly prescribed. As well as the 20% siphoned off in stock buybacks, executive salaries, marketing, and duplicitave corporate bureaucracy in the private insurance racket. Sucker. http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a55824/senate-republican-healthcare-bill/

      • data_ninja

        I think if they can tell people that they can save up a nest egg without worrying about medical emergencies, that might sell it to some of the audience. For the rest of the people that arent able to save up (which I acknowledge is a lot), they’ll have to get to them by going a different route.

        Basically, you’ll have to talk to them through their wallet, because they aren’t listening to the ‘kind and human decency’ aspect.

        • shivaskeeper

          It hasn’t worked yet. Telling someone their Medicare taxes will go up $200/month in return for not having to pay $600/month in private insurance for a $400/month in pocket savings gets shut down as soon as the word tax is uttered. Some people just don’t want to pay taxes for anything, even if it mean they save money. It’s stupid and irrational, but it is going to be a hard sell anyway.

          • Daniel Hoy

            As an Independent, I am all for taxes……to pay for our military, and infrastructure, such as roads, bridges, police, fire, ect……. I am not for increasing taxes to pay for YOUR responsibilities such as YOUR health, education, living standards, ect……… That is why you Lefties are losing election after election, and it will continue………..

          • shivaskeeper

            Oh good. A libertarian dick bag. Now my day is complete.

            You admit you stand with a racist, Nazi, right wing platform, but I suspect you will get butthurt when I call you a racist Nazi. Also a fucking idiot who misunderstands free speech and how it works. So, you, my new friend can fuck off until you have something intelligent to say.

          • Daniel Hoy

            You poor little butthurt Fascist………… I think your Mommy needs to use her computer now.

          • shivaskeeper

            I did say to come back when you had something intelligent to add. Possibly when you learn the difference between infrastructure and government services. Defiantly after you learn what free speech and the 1st Amendment is really about and not whatever you think it is in the rats nest you call a brain. Bye, Felicia.

        • Daniel Hoy

          “I think if they can tell people that they can save up a nest egg without worrying about medical emergencies, that might sell it to some of the audience.”
          Buahahahahaha! Working, middle-class Independent who voted for Trump here. At 50 yrs old, I have saved and invested a nest egg that now sits north of $900,000. Have a job, and great healthcare that I pay into thru my employer. And like millions of other working, middle-class Americans who don’t want to subsidize Liberal / Socialist / Progressive free-loaders, I will vote Red again in 2018 and 2020.

      • Daniel Hoy

        “If they or we can figure out how to not say the word tax when explaining it”
        Hahahahahahahahaha! You Lefties are pretty mentally ill……….. Buahahahahaha!

  • Walter Wellstone

    Any sane Republicans signing on? Where’s Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski and Miss Lindsey? I would even expect Jeff Flake and Walnuts! to sign on (a stretch, though.)

    • ManchuCandidate

      Ha. Sane Republican.

    • shivaskeeper

      Doubtful. This has no chance of passing, so it’s a political calculation. Make this the issue for 2018. It;s a good issue and it will need to be done, but I don’t think any GOPers are going to sign on.

      At least not until the individuals are getting out of Congress and not going to Fox News, or they have no other option if the base turns on them.

      • Daniel Hoy

        As long as you Lefties play identity politics, stifle free speech, promote violent racist and fascist organizations such as BLM and ANTIFA (Anti-First Amendment), President Trumps base continues to grow…………

  • You can do it, ‘murrica! I have faith in you! (I mean, probably not in my lifetime, but sometime before the heat death of the universe!)

  • Mr. Blobfish

    Haven’t you heard? Trump is bipartisan now. ¿Quién sabe?

    • Walter Wellstone

      Go back to Mexico. USA!, USA!, USA!!!1!!1!!111!!11!!!!

    • SayItWithWookies

      Yes — he’s going to betray both parties now.

  • ManchuCandidate

    I wish you guys would get single payer. Not just for improving your society but for personal reasons. So I can hear my US Amercian Trumper Greedy Arrogant ex surgeon uncle stroke out in rage.

    • Crystalclear12

      A worthy goal.

    • The Rain in Spain’s Therapist

      At least he’ll be covered!

      • JohnnieWHurwitz

        Boost your earnings on Google & make $99/hour by working from a home computer.
        on friday I bought a gorgeous Chrysler when I got my check for $9277 this munth. it’s actualy the most comfortable job Ive ever had . I actually started seven months/ago and almost straight away got over $99, per/hr . check
        !si294d:
        ➽➽
        ➽➽;➽➽ http://GoogleOnlineAdvisorBestJobs4u/earn/hourly ★✫★★✫★✫★★✫★✫★★✫★✫★★✫★✫★★✫★✫★★✫★✫★★✫★✫★★✫★✫★★✫★✫★★✫★✫:::::!si374l..,..

    • Three Finger Salute

      We’d have to be annexed by Canada. Not going to happen because 1) Justin would end up with 65 million new Harper voters; 2) even the worst Harperrhoids don’t want to kill healthcare (Republican voters do); and 3) the current year is not 1812 and Canada’s not going to bring cannons to a MOAB fight.

      Once again, in the cold civil war between north and south, history will record that the north won.

  • VirginiaWackelpudding

    A friend of my kid is in the ER again. This is her 3rd time in a week. She has an ovarian cyst and something else going on. She is 19, in college, and has no insurance. They keep sending her home (back to the dorm) with meds to try and keep her costs down. Because Virginia didn’t expand Medicare because some old white guys in our senate said BAHH!
    This is why we need single payer. There is no just or xtian or humane reason to make a person suffer like this. We are the only wealthy country that feeds it’s citizens to the monsters in power. Having your soul destroyed by fear of their greed is the price we pay for being Americans. And it blows!!

    • theblackdog

      I ran across a commercial where Northham swore he was going to work to expand Medicaid in VA, you think he’ll have a shot to do it or will your state legislature stop it yet again?

      • VirginiaWackelpudding

        If the old NOVA cruds have their way it will stall. I’d like to see how long they would last without medical care.

    • Three Finger Salute

      In your kid’s friend’s case, the fact that it’s an icky girl infection means a place like Virginia (which, apparently, is for haters) has double the reasons not to expand the exchanges. Ovaries are punishment by God for Eve’s disobedience of her husband, don’t you know that? What are you, some kind of heathen?

    • Daniel Hoy

      Nice sob story…………

      • VirginiaWackelpudding

        You a paid Macedonian or just a token dick?

  • Wolf Tracker

    “We must have universal health care.
    …Our objective [should be] to make reforms for the moment and, longer term, to find an equivalent of the single-payer plan that is affordable, well-administered, and provides freedom of choice. “

    – Donald Trump,
    In his book, The America We Deserve

    I think the Dems could get Trump on board with Medicare for all because many of his base are seniors and they love their Medicare and understand how it works and Trump wants a big win on health care while keeping his base.

    • Wild Cat

      I doubt if he wrote those words, thought those words, or even recalls those those words. They’re just words.

      • Wolf Tracker

        He stated it several times before he ran in the last election.

        He may not believe it but because he has said it the Dems can push him that direction and he wants a big win.

        • Crystalclear12

          Would like a list of some of his other lies he liked to repeat during the last election?

          • Wolf Tracker

            Yes I understand you hate Trump and so do I but we need his Independents that hate the GOP and would support Medicare for all.

          • Crystalclear12

            Yes, we all want universal healthcare.
            Will it happen with Trump in office?
            Not unless we can swing a super majority in 2018.
            Shitting on people because we are realistic does not help the cause.

          • Daniel Hoy

            Exactly, and that is why you Lefties keep on losing elections, and will continue to lose elections………… that 2018 super-majority will not be you, the violent Blue……….

          • Daniel Hoy

            Independent, and not for socialized medicine at all………. President Trump already has my 2020 vote.

    • Crystalclear12

      Expecting anything helpful of Trump is a waste of time.
      And attempting to work with him will result in soul corrosion.

      • Wolf Tracker

        He went along with Dems on debt ceiling and DACA and Trump is an opportunist. You just have to stroke his ego and he wants a big win.

        • Crystalclear12

          Anything he helps will be tainted if he is impeached.
          Which starting to look like good bet.
          Especially if he works with Democrats.

          • Wolf Tracker

            Nah- Dems are not going to let that taint it and you will need Trump to sign anything while he is in office.

          • Daniel Hoy

            Impeached……..Buahahahahahahahahahahaha! Liberal-Aid
            packs one hell of a punch that literally knocks all common sense, and
            rationality clean out of your head. LIBERALLY REFRESHING…..AH!

        • theblackdog

          All he did was buy some time with the Dems because the debt ceiling and federal budget will come back by December so if the recent news was any kind of a victory for him, it’s going to turn into a Pyrrhic victory later.

      • pstokk

        You can’t trust him, he would turn around in a minute and pull the rug out from the whole thing.
        Or tie it to a Muslim immigration ban or something.
        This kind of thing came up before the inauguration when various Dems were making nice noises about working with Trump for example on infrastructure.
        Ignoring for the moment the fact that a Trump infrastructure program would be a crony-capitalist feeding frenzy, the point was made, I think by Chait, probably others, that the public gives no points to the opposition in Congress for playing ball, anything that works well is perceived as the President’s win. Do you want 8 years of Trump?
        Resistance is the only way. You can’t negotiate with authoritarians. You lose in that game, always.

        • Wolf Tracker

          Once written into law he can’t and sounds more like we have some people here that don’t want Medicare for all.

          • pstokk

            You seem to be ignoring the fact that bills just don’t get signed and magically implemented. ACA took sustained effort to negotiate, to anchor with stakeholders, to get through Congress, to defend once it was signed – politically and legislatively, and more sustained effort to get it to work technically. These things also have to be tweaked, as we see with the ACA. Another political battle.
            You might also have noticed that Trump is underwriting an undermining of the ACA with executive actions despite the fact that it is law.

          • Wolf Tracker

            The ACA even if fixed is not what people want.

            Try reading the article and comments.

          • pstokk

            You’re doing that thing again where you’re obnoxious and playing at being an obstinate troll, or are actually one.
            To save some time, everyone here thinks single-payer would be great, nobody is saying we need to never budge from ACA, everyone here knows the polling on single-payer (they also know the subtleties surrounding that polling that seem to have escaped you).
            So what’s you game?
            Maybe tell us about something you actually have new information on or a useful take.
            Tell us about the wolf-tracking, for real, I mean it. I would read that with interest and appreciation.
            Do something useful instead of just stinking up the place.

          • Daniel Hoy

            Is that the same Liberal poll that predicted President Clinton? And you are right, that Liberal stink in this place is nauseating enough to vote for President Trump’s re-election, as well as every down-ballot Conservative, both State and Federal. Sorry to crash your Liberal-Aid party…………….. Stay
            forever thirsty my low-educated, and loony Liberal friends! Your lost logic
            brings me and millions of other hardworking American taxpayers, great comedy
            each and every day!

        • Daniel Hoy

          What is pretty cool, is that this Liberal temper-tantrum you call a “resistance”, is going to not only get him re-elected in 2020, but will cost you Lefties even more seats in 2018.

          You Liberals lost not only the White House, but both sides of Congress, over 1,000 state Legislature seats, and a few more Governorships. And the response from you looney Liberals on the Left? Throw an absolute temper tantrum, scream and yell, blame the Russians, fight Trump on every decision, burn your own cities, shut down free speech, and beat on women who might so much as wear a Trump hat. This will be the “guaranteed winning
          strategy” for you Liberals, as the American people will be greatly impressed by your grace, sportsmanship, maturity, and commitment to improving the lives of all Americans. Buahahahaha! Yea, right…..

          • TEX Dept. of Space Tacos

            “fight Trump on every decision”
            Well, shitty ideas deserve a a reponse…the rest: “Citation Needed”.

    • AnnieGetYerFun

      Nah, quoting his words back at him doesn’t even register on his brain. Not even a blip.

      They could probably get him to sign on if they locked him in a room, told him he was beautiful, and promised him a burnt steak if he accepted their plan. But if any of his people got to him, he’d switch back in a jiff.

      • Wolf Tracker

        His people are a lot of senors on Medicare and poor working class without insurance.

        • AnnieGetYerFun

          Who voted for him because he promised to take insurance away from even MORE people.

          • Wolf Tracker

            No actually in their minds they thought he would replace it with something better like Univeral health care.

            He lied to them and that is what they wanted.

          • AnnieGetYerFun

            And yet there are countless interviews of Trump voters on Medicaid talking about how they hoped Trump would cut benefits because the guvmint spends too much.

          • Daniel Hoy

            No, we did not………but please, keep believing that………

          • Daniel Hoy

            I voted for him………… and he already has my 2020 vote.

          • AnnieGetYerFun

            Cool story, bro.

      • Wookie Monster

        It’s not like he actually wrote that book.

        Or read it.

        • Wolf Tracker

          He said it several times before running in the last election. Whether he believes it is not important as long as he helps Dems and he just wants a big win.

          • Wookie Monster

            He’s said a lot of things, only to forget about it minutes later. The only thing that sticks in his brain is the wall.

    • laughingnome

      Not hopeful, but if he did it I’d be happy. I just don’t want it to win him re-election.

      • Wolf Tracker

        Not a chance of that and I don’t see him making it through his first term or running again if he did.

      • Daniel Hoy

        He will be re-elected in 2020…………and the Lefties are about to lose even more seats in both Fed and State governments in 2018. Looking forward to doing my part to make it happen………

    • Wookie Monster

      You’re assuming those seniors give a rat’s ass about anything except what benefits themselves directly.

      • Wolf Tracker

        Many of them not yet at the age to collect and worried the GOP will cut Medicare to pay for a tax cut. They are open to any deal that keeps their Medicare.

    • Lefty Wright

      Most seniors have no idea how Medicare works. For one thing, all of the people currently working are paying a 2.9% payroll tax to supplement and subsidize the retirees and disabled receiving Medicare. Just as they paid 2.9% when they worked to cover their parents. In addition, Part B is premium based, the drug policies are private insurance, and supplemental policies to cover the 20% Medicare does not pay are private. Often that additional coverage can amount to $250 to $350 a month extra, but that is what Bernie promises for free.
      How high will the payroll tax be if everyone from birth to death is covered 100% on everything??

      • Wolf Tracker

        You would make a great mouthpiece for the GOP.

      • MrTusks

        I already pay way more than 2.9% of my paycheck to contribute to my health plan.

    • Roadstergal

      Said the man who is actively undermining the closest thing to universal health care we’ve managed to get in place as a nation.

      • Wolf Tracker

        He is an opportunist and he wants big win.

        Most people would prefer Medicare for all to the ACA.

        • Roadstergal

          And he’s working towards neither. If he worked towards Medicare For All and ignored the ACA, I might believe you, but he’s doing his damndest to tear down the ACA and not do a thing about MfA.

          His actions show who he is.

    • KnaveOfSwords

      I ser 3 problems with that theory.

      1. Drumph doesn’t write his own books (it’s iffy whether he can read them).

      2. He’s still focused on destroying ACA as part of his efforts to erase Obama’s legacy.

      3. Every statement Donnie has ever made can be parsed as “I’m too important to not be talking right now.” (See his continued talk through scheduled moments of silence on 9-11)

    • Meccalopolis

      Call it national socialism

  • Mr. Blobfish

    I was for Single Payer before it was cool.

    • CripesAmighty

      Yup. Did a lecture series on it for PNHP back in ’93.

    • Wild Cat

      I had the Ayn Rand photo spread in “Big Objectivist Knockers” before she was considered tres chic.

  • Baconzgood

    OMG. The Freedom Caucus and AM talk radio hosts heads will esplode.

  • Relativicus

    BernieBros are not fooled.

  • Michael R
    • AnnieGetYerFun

      This is pretty much how bandaids work for me right now. But I have dumb skin.

    • Roadstergal

      Oh lordy. I got some roadrash the other day, and had to change from adhesive strips to gauze held on with an Ace bandage. I was losing too much surrounding skin.

      • TheGrandWazoo2

        Try panty liners, they work great.

        • Roadstergal

          I’d have to go buy some. :p I went period-less in my 30s and was pissed as hell that nobody told me it was an option when I was younger.

      • Beanz&Berryz

        I did an experiment once… between dry or wet curing of road rash.. I had a good supply of RR to work with. In my case, wet curing healed much faster. A smear of triple antibiotic goo over the RR, with daily or so changes of dressing, healed faster than letting things dry and scab and tear off. It looks wet and nasty along the way, but the wet cure goes faster… to return of actual skin..

        Happy healing…

        • Roadstergal

          That was my experience, too, when I was a kid and crashed rollerskating a lot. :p I’m doing the goo and the dressing, changes in the morning and at night. Stupid RR.

          • Beanz&Berryz

            RR sucks, but bones suck more… And brain rattlezes. Had a friend go down on a ride a week ago… Pretty hard. Nary a scratch on him (aside from his elbow), or a brain rattle, but 5 broken ribs… and the wind knocked hard out of him to start… A homeless person’s shopping cart caught my friend’s handlebar… somehow… ugh…

  • marxalot

    Not sure why this doesn’t get more press, but: killing the ACA would destroy then entire freelance/gig/entrepreneur sector that conservatives claim to love. Expanding Medicare to everyone would allow people the freedom to take risks and grow the economy with their ideas and hustle and whatnot.
    (and while they’re doing that, we grab the whole country for socialism!)

    • onedollarjuana

      “Conservatives” don’t love the freelance/gig/entrepreneur sector, as is evidenced by all of the tax laws and legislation designed to kill individual enterprise and foster multinational corporations the hyper-wealthy who have their investments parked in those corps shares.

      • marxalot

        I said “claim to” not “actually work on behalf of from sincere” love…

    • Wookie Monster

      Don’t be silly. Only billionaires can be entrepreneurs. If we let the House poloi think they can be anything other than a wage slave, they’ll get even more ridiculous ideas. Like this being a democracy.

    • P’jama Pahnts

      I know a guy that wants to start a business customizing motorcycles but he needs healthcare for his family

  • Lefty Wright

    I hate to douse cold water on this, but at this point in time, there are no details. Even when Sanders reveals his bill, it looks like he has no information on taxes in it. How much and what type. Until all the information is in, I would reserve opinion on it. While Medicare for All may be a little cheaper in the long run, some people are going to end up paying more for their health care. And they are not all going to be the wealthy. It is not going to be the salvation of US health care and cut expenses by 50%. Will this be a fee for service deal, and if so, how will reimbursements be set. Will it be a more nationalized system like in Britain? These are just a couple of questions that need to be answered before public support can be gauged. What we have now on polls is like a waitstaff asking if you want dessert and you say sure. Almost everyone wants dessert. Then find out the dessert is cauliflower pie and it costs $25. Then people decide they are not really into that. There will likely be thousands of details yet to be worked out and it will take years to get anything approved, then years to roll it out. And thousands of objections to be heard.

    In the mean time, this is taking attention away from fixing and improving the ACA. If we are not careful, the GOP will eventually sneak in something to start cutting the ACA and Medicaid. Because although there are signs they have dropped the issue, it is never far from their minds. Then millions of people will be out of luck, with no health insurance and years from any replacement. Right now, less than 10% of the public is without health insurance. That would drop by several percentage points if the hold out states for the Medicaid expansion would buy into it. The most important thing right now is to fix the ACA. If we cannot do that, then there is no way Medicare for all will ever get a hearing. And it will just divert attention from the ACA, maybe long enough for the GOP to repeal large parts of it, or Trump to undermine it. After the ACA is safe, you can start bringing in a public option and Medicare buy in. In the mean time, the GOP will be making hay from the possible $1.5 trillion annual price tag on this policy and the taxes that will go along with it.

    • Roadstergal

      This is what irritated me about Sanders’s plans for health care. No details, no budget. These are critical, they’re what scuttled universal health care in California. We have a plan that’s in place and is keeping people from dying. We need to keep working on and improving that foundation. It was a hard-won victory, and the purity of single payer is threatening its existence.

      • Marceline

        Health care needs a policy wonk in charge. Both Hillary and Obama are wonks. Sanders isn’t.

        • Wolf Tracker

          Clinton is not running and is not in the senate and her plan was not what Americans wanted.

          • Treg Brown

            Yet she won the democratic primary, and the election by 3MM popular votes. Perhaps she DOES know what America wants.

          • Daniel Hoy

            No, she knows what the 3M California and New York voters want. The rest of America gave her the middle finger on November 8th.

          • Treg Brown

            Considering that it’s the taxes collected by the financially successful “blue” states (like California and New York), That keep the rest of the country going, does it really matter what State level welfare person in Louisiana, you know, the one with the 5th grade education thinks?

            The “elitists” keep the lights on in the country. Everyone else is here for the ride.

          • Daniel Hoy

            It is interesting that the biggest welfare recipient is the Blue-ball state of California. Sorry, but you so-called “elitists” are nothing more than a sucking sound, that hard working American taxpayers hear when it comes to raising taxes, to pay for your Liberal “free stuff” entitlements.

          • Weirdly, that’s incorrect.

          • Daniel Hoy

            Truthfully, that big Red spot in between California and New York speaks what everyone know is correct. Good luck though, with your Liberal butt-hurt for the next 8, and even more possible, 16 years! I predict Nikki Haley will be the first female President.

    • Wild Cat

      Good discussions along your lines on Balloon Juice today.

    • suziq

      It isn’t going to pass for years anyway but we need to get a serious discussion started.

      • Lefty Wright

        A good start would be to get the Democrats in control of the House of Representatives. Then they could actually get a committee on universal health care established and start working on these details. The ACA took a year and a thousand pages. Adding another 290 million will take even longer and needs lots of experts in health care, finance, and policy. While this should be a starting point, pinning too much hope on what at best will be a very general outline is not a productive use of time when the ACA is still at risk. Conyers has brought up a Medicare for All bill for several years. It could barely qualify as an outline, being mostly vague phrases with a lot of “best”, “reasonable” or other adjectives to describe only a few of the nuts and bolts. Lack of details means that the opposition can fill in the blanks with anything they want. And you can bet that the GOP will have their pen out to fill them in the worst possible way.

        • Gayer Than Thou

          I have a vague memory of a First Lady who had thought a lot about healthcare and how some kind of national healthcare might work, but I can’t remember her name. Anyway, it’s too bad she’s not in politics anymore, because that kind of expertise would come in handy for just the kind of work you describe.

          • Wild Cat

            I witnessed how the media destroyed her in 1993. Just fucking savaged her. Fucking bastards.

          • NeoliberalBanksterCaptainHowdy

            No, the qualification for legislating healthcare is combing your hair with a balloon. “Expertise” is corporatist and neoliberal.

          • Gayer Than Thou

            I have nose coffee all over my desk because of “combing your hair with a balloon.” Thank you, and also where do I send my cleaning bill?

        • suziq

          Totally agree about getting dem majorities etc, but I think having so many people sign on to this gives the idea credibility so people will not think it is not possible and ignore it. A step in the right direction but we will need a lot more steps before it goes through. And I think we will get to the point where it becomes obvious that is really the only choice because what we have right now is not good enough. ACA has been great for half my family but not everyone qualifies and if you are covered by a work plan you still can get hosed by the co-pays and deductibles to the point of extreme financial hardship. And that is for people of all political beliefs.

    • spangled

      yes, you are probably very right. it seems like the california bill, that actually got the votes but was a total pipe dream with no funding mechanism.

      but it is ultimately good to have a goal to work towards.

    • theblackdog

      On the other hand, this will wreck one of the BernieBro arguments against Kamala Harris and Elizabeth Warren because now they signed on to this bill, likely to specifically shut these guys up.

      • Gayer Than Thou

        Somehow, I think they’ll find a way to discredit these two women.

        • theblackdog

          Of course they will! One of them isn’t white, and they both have vaginas.

    • gletternich

      I’ve heard this referred to as the Democrat’s version of Repeal and Replace, and I think that’s exactly right. It’s just some BS to fire up the base while containing no substance. If Dems magically controlled both houses of congress and the presidency tomorrow, this bill, like all the ACA repeals, still won’t pass because it’s a shitty bill no reasonable congressperson actually wants.

      I’m actually kind of disappointed at all the Dem senators that have signed on, although I guess it would be a good thing if this got the ball rolling on serious progressive healthcare legislation, and not, like, everyone makes a grandstandey symbolic vote to keep their 2020 options open and then go home.

  • The Librarian

    For the life of me, I will never fucking understand the mentality of those that would wish or do harm to others in terms of wanting affordable medical care. All the things that haters complain about (costs, emergency room waits) could be solved via ACA tweaks or Medicare. It takes more work to think of ways to screw people over than it does to fix things. You would think that the GOP, who obviously hate to work anyway, would welcome the opportunity to work even less.

    • therblig

      it’s this whole mindset that someone somewhere (who’s probably black) is getting something. it doesn’t matter that nothing is being taken from you, just that you might not be getting something.

      and black.

      • Roadstergal

        Yes. Trump’s base will happily shoot themselves in both feet if the bullets will also hit a black person.

        • Three Finger Salute

          …on Fifth Avenue, at that.

      • The Rain in Spain’s Therapist

        This is why they keep fighting against a higher minimum wage. In their minds, the only people working those jobs are minorities that they believe don’t deserve a better life.

    • OutOfOrbit

      on the right, it is, “Every [man] for himself.”

      • Beanz&Berryz

        [white man]

        • Villago Delenda Est

          [white straight “Christian” man]

          • Beanz&Berryz

            “Christian.” Like Trump.

        • OutOfOrbit

          yes, thx for correcting my omission before i could see it

      • Jeffery Campbell

        A variation of “Fuck you, I got mine!”

        • Villago Delenda Est

          The true credo of the GOP

      • Meccalopolis

        Least a ain’t comoonist and THEY ain’t gettin none

    • WeaselPoo

      Actually it serms to take no work at all to fuck people over.

      • The Librarian

        Except, they had 7 years to try and failed and even their last minute attempt failed.

    • Carpe Vagenda

      I think you’re overthinking. A couple of five figure checks from people who make a great deal of money from the status quo can insure that Rep. Dogg (R-Junkyard) doesn’t have to look for a job which requires him to show up for work and doesn’t have cadillac insurance.

      • The Librarian

        Hmmm, yes, “moneyz talks, bullshit stays right where it’s at” is now the law.

  • jesterpunk

    I saw Bernie’s old plan that included 50 individual medicare “markets” and didnt have a lot of details on paying for things and how to keep red states from refusing to expand medicare like they did with the ACA.

    https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/senate-bill/1782

    His new bill also seems to be pretty light on details with a possibly higher out of pocket prescription plan.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/13/politics/bernie-sanders-medicare-for-all-plan-details/index.html

    There is also a house bill

    https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/676?q=%7B

    That calls for a nationwide expansion of medicare that the federal government handles which seems a lot better and a lot less likely for Republicans to fuck up in their states because Democrats proposed it.

    • Villago Delenda Est

      This bill is just the first step in a long process. It probably will never come to a vote, even, but it’s a beginning.

      • OutOfOrbit

        at least Bernie has finally got some light shining on this RIGHT, finally

      • jesterpunk

        I would love to have single payer but if your putting up a plan it should be a serious plan that covers how to actually do it and use what we have learned from the ACA. We know republicans are going to sabotage any plan put up by democrats if it passes so going with state by state plans is a bad idea because they still haven’t expanded medicare or medicaid as part of the ACA so why would they do it for this?

    • CripesAmighty
      • jesterpunk

        That is national which the house bill calls for not state by state that Bernie’s bill is advocating for. Remember Vermont tried a state single payer bill and couldn’t afford it.

        http://www.politico.com/story/2014/12/single-payer-vermont-113711

        • CripesAmighty

          A small single state isn’t a valid comparison as it doesn’t allow the economies of scale in being part of a larger overarching structure. The bill is a starting point. If you dive deeper into pnhp’s work (they’ve done most of the spade work), there are multiple potential paths to implementation.

          • jesterpunk

            I agree with you about the states, my point is why does the senate bill call for state exchanges instead of federal? States cannot handle that on their own and cant negotiate the same way the federal government can.

    • Lefty Wright

      The problem for the Medicare for all bill is that it is extremely short on details. Especially on funding. Check the link for the funding section of that Conyers bill and tell me exactly what the taxers and revenue will be. These are details that must be described before anyone should vote on it.

      https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/676/text?q=%7B#toc-H87F6F4A93DE34DF5B9F91798A4C464A7

      • jesterpunk

        You are right about funding for both bills which is a major issue that should have been covered before proposing anything. The main difference between the 2 is the house bill is federal and has more details on other parts of the bill.

  • spangled
  • FauxAntocles

    Healthcare is a right.

    • cats530

      Damn right! ; )

  • UnsaltedSinner

    Medicare for all sounds nice, but I wish Dems would talk more about universal healthcare and less about single payer. A single payer system would be fine, but it’s only one of several ways to achieve universal coverage, and given your current system it may not be the easiest to implement. I worry that the American left will become so fixated on single payer that they oppose other alternatives that could achieve universal coverage and would be easier to pass.

    • Lance Thrustwell

      What’s the difference? Ignoramus here.

      • Lefty Wright

        Single payer is short hand for everything being billed to and paid by the government. Universal coverage is more like the ACA provision, but with the force of law behind requiring you to buy insurance. You can pick your policy, with minimum benefits required, but you will pay a tax to support it whether you want to or not. So like with most US company sponsored plans, you do not save any money by not enrolling. You don’t enroll in the company plan, you do not get a bump up in salary.

      • UnsaltedSinner

        I’m no expert either, but I know that you will find both single and multi payer systems in Europe, as well as socialized systems. I think the system you eventually choose is less important than achieving the basic goal, which is universal coverage, so I think it’s unfortunate if people get the impression that universal coverage = single payer.

    • Lefty Wright

      Medicare itself is a plan with universal coverage with a blend of public and private funding. In conjunction with Medicaid, health care for seniors, while still a burden for some, is not leaving them out in the cold. And as you point out, many countries have universal coverage but not single payer. Bernie keeps pointing to Germany and it’s free higher education, but Germany has multiple insurers. And a problem with their free higher education is that it is much more selective, allowing a lot fewer students to enroll. Even Britain, with it’s totally socialized NHS, has a growing private insurance industry. Mainly because the government is refusing to adequately fund the NHS. Showing that even with a single payer, universal coverage system, electing the wrong people can result in an inferior product. Health care costs are increasing everywhere. Without enough funding, even the best intentions will fail.

      • Teecha

        Private health insurance is only for the very rich in Britain. Everyone else uses the NHS. and if your operation goes wrong, BUPA will send you to the nearest NHS hospital for emergency treatment.

        The reason the NHS in England and Wales is struggling is because the current government are deliberately underfunding it so that they can claim it’s failing and sell bits off to their chums. And they’re under pressure from other governments to allow access to tender by foreign businesses. Us Brits are not keen on it, and yet still people vote fucking Tory.

        • Three Finger Salute

          They keep voting Tory because they want to continue eating shwarma without actually having to look at Ahmed and Fatima. Nothing to do with healthcare and everything to do with “Keep calm and Enoch Powell was white — er, right”. Same reason the Crappers won’t die in Canada. At least the majority of the country is sane — for all the ignorant yapping about Justin’s “39%” (in a country with multiple parties), the bulk of people voted against Harper’s party and the polling indicates they will next time around (the Liberals have actually gone up and are now somewhere between 43-47%, with Justin’s personal approval rating roughly equivalent to Obama’s at the end of two terms). But there’s still that turd of the population who wants to tag Malala Yousafzai with a crescent moon badge on her overcoat.

      • cats530

        “Showing that even with a single payer, universal coverage system, electing the wrong people can result in an inferior product.”

        That’s always the crux.

    • CripesAmighty

      You’re right. Marketing (which we suck at) is key-hence, ‘Medicare for All’.

    • NeoliberalBanksterCaptainHowdy

      I worry that the American left will become so fixated on single payer that they oppose other alternatives that could achieve universal coverage and would be easier to pass.

      The American left has been fixated on single payer ever since the ACA did not have the votes for single payer or the public option. That is the foundation of the Obama-bashing that led to losing the 2010 midterms and every thing negative since.

      • Bemused

        Unfortunately they needed Ben Nelson and he was a wholly owned subsidiary of Mutual of Omaha.

  • Carpe Vagenda

    Looking forward to the cool Dems moving past symbolism and troll repelling and getting on board with Conyers, who actually has a plan.

    • jesterpunk

      The house bill is better written and is nation wide rather then state by state which seems better from what we have learned from red states and the ACA medicare expansions.

      • cats530

        Red state argument against healthcare: Our gawd doesn’t want you to have healthcare.

        • jesterpunk

          IKR? I am not against universal healthcare I just dont want some half assed measure that will fail easily that can be pointed to later as a reason why we cant do it. Also I dont want a bill republicans can easily sabotage, lets learn from the past here.

          • cats530

            Agreed. Preaching to the choir ; )

    • Chyron HR

      His plan’s no good because it has “identity politics” (wink wink) on it.

    • Wolf Tracker

      How about not letting your Bernie hate get in the way of getting Medicare for all since the plans will be melded together if it passes the senate.

    • Marceline

      We’ve got to stick a fork in Bernie first. This is a good way to do that.

      • Carpe Vagenda

        While I assume this is good for his fundraising and moving unsold copies of his books, I can’t figure out any way for him to get past the states which are moving to require tax returns for ballot access.

  • DainBramage

    My sister and her husband were lifelong Republicans until their business did a bunch of work in Sweden. When they saw how government could help people live in freedom from fear it turned them both around.

    • NotReallyHere

      It’s always nice to see people are capable of learning.

      • Three Finger Salute

        See? They traveled. Most Americans never have, and they don’t take the initiative to even learn about other countries using this wonderful machine that they use to shit all over them on Breitbart and Daily Caller. We don’t teach comparative government in schools, that might get the kids all radicalized into thinking that America isn’t #1! We don’t even teach ferrin languages anymore except to make them galldurn Mexican illegals forget their Ricky Ricardo jibb’rish and speak Murican!

        • Roadstergal

          Not just traveled, worked. If you work in a place, you get a different perspective than when you’re a tourist.

          • Three Finger Salute

            Cosmopolitan globalist!

  • eastcoastlib

    Medicare for all is the perfect solution not just in terms of policy but also in terms of messaging. Single payer will be attacked as socialism but Medicare is already a part of many people’s vocabulary. Yes, people are that stupid.

    • Three Finger Salute

      See also Kimmel’s Obamacare video. Once the rubes get wind that Medicare for all is not going to be just welfare for white guys, the outrage machine will kick up.

  • Guinnessmonkey

    Medicare for all isn’t single payer. Please stop using “single payer” as a synonym for universal health care access.

    • Lefty Wright

      Under Bernie’s plan, it is. He has never discussed a place for private health insurance. Being a free country, you can buy insurance for whatever you want, but for any necessary medical treatment, Bernie proposes the government cover it all. Yeah, you want a special policy to cover breast augmentation or a face lift, go ahead. But if that augmentation fails and endangers your health, Medicare will pay anyway.

  • Three Finger Salute

    It’s not only Ayn Rand Republicans who don’t want this but the religious obsessives. Myself and other commenters have brought up the intractability of things like the Hyde Amendment and the Hobby Lobby precedent becoming wedges that will hold up a truly comprehensive national healthcare policy becoming law in the United States. Abortion, contraception, LGBT-related care… all of these things are going to become “social issues” footballs that no Democrat worth their salt would be willing to compromise on — but neither is any “God-fearing” Talibangelical going to sacrifice their “values” at the altar of (ironically) liberty and freedom either.

    Personally, I would love for us to adopt a Belgian-style euthanasia program so that anyone could have the right to have the ultimate freedom from incurable illness — especially of the psychiatric nature — once and for all. (Trust me, I’d be one of the first to sign up.) But I’m not optimistic that it’ll ever happen. Not with the God-botherers still clinging to their Bronze Age totalitarian moralizing and the very concept of suicide itself being uncomfortable even for liberal Democrats.

    This being ‘Murica, I’ll take what I can get. Even Canada doesn’t let you go all Soylent Green if you’ve got autism, schizophrenia, A.D.H.D. or bipolar disorder, unfortunately. At least they do their best to alleviate quality of life otherwise. Snowball’s chance in the pits of hell we’d ever go as far as to so much as federally legalize cannabis, let alone have it be covered on Medicaid. Not when the holy profits are at stake.

    • Courser_Resistance

      Oh I strongly suspect that Big Pharma is behind the Anti-Cannabis hysteria. If they can’t monetize it, they’ll demonize it. In actual fact, a HUGE number of people are able to get off tons of medications, particularly for PTSD and some other mental disorders. We know it can do some amazing stuff, INCLUDING being really, really helpful in treatment of opioid addiction. This is all besides it’s huge benefits to cancer patients. But if you can’t patent it, well, that’s just evil.

      • Carpe Vagenda

        Weirdly enough, I suspect it’s probably big alcohol instead. Because the system is all ready to monetize it. Last I heard, Maui Wowee and Acapulco Gold are registered trademarks of Philip Morris.

        • Three Finger Salute

          Figures there’s a government department dedicated to the three biggest killers: alcohol, tobacco and firearms. Two of which come under the heading of a major corporation. All that’s needed now is for ol’ Phil to merge with Smith & Wesson and there’s your perfect All-American murder-for-hire business.

          But America hates suicide because it’s sinful, hence “mentally ill”. Go figure.

          • Carpe Vagenda

            That’s actually specifically why the three of those were put into a single agency (I think as part of a deal when they were founding the FDA). Because they’re all three products that can kill you if you use them correctly.

        • ahughes798

          My clinic sells Maui Wowie. Since it’s been famous since forever, it was the first type I tried. It was very good! Also, too, when I last visited the clinic, I found there is a certain type of marijuana that suppresses your appetite. That’s the next one I’m going to try.

      • Three Finger Salute

        “But if you can’t patent it, well, that’s just evil.”

        Enter Monsanto in a partnership with Lilly and Pfizer.

        Unfortunately, weed notwithstanding, I’m never going to get legalized hemlock and neither is anybody else.

      • Roadstergal

        Um, no. If we were allowed to study it, we’d be on it like white on rice. The US scheduling doesn’t allow us to do anything with it.

        I wouldn’t say we know it can do amazing stuff. We suspect it can and have some decent preliminary data, but there’s a lot of work to do – which can’t be done while the stuff is considered by the gummint to be literally less medically allowed than cocaine.

        • Three Finger Salute

          Jeffbo also says it not only has no valid medical healing properties, but is harmful because it makes hair grow on your palms and your children want to race-mix and listen to rock and roll music. Only “bad people” use marijuana. We know that because it wasn’t one of the crops that General Lee allowed anywhere near his plantation. Them freed negros was what smuggled it in from the Nawth and polluted the cotton crop with a devil weed. The South will rise, but never get high, again!

        • ahughes798

          Plus, the gov’t was only using one strain, from the ’70’s. I believe they are now planting different varieties of marijuana, in order to study the medicinal effects of what people are smoking now.

      • Zippy W Pinhead

        One of the biggest opponents to Arizona’s recent attempt to pass recreational MJ was Insys Theraputics, a Fentanyl manufacturer in Chandler AZ

      • ahughes798

        Big Booze is against it, too, and I think alcohol is the real gateway drug, also too. I used to drink A LOT, 2 bottles of wine a night, for about 7 years. Hadn’t smoked pot for 30 years. One night I said, What The Hell, and tried it again. Yowza! It’s stronger than the stuff I was smoking in the late ’70’s, but it turned off my desire for alcohol like someone flipped a switch in my brain. My desire for alcohol vanished. I only smoke at night, to help me sleep. I don’t know if this would work for everybody, but it’s worth a try.

        • Courser_Resistance

          Much the same here. I eventually stopped drinking for the most part because it’s so incredibly terrible for anxiety. Then I was popping benzos (prescribed to me) and that really isn’t much better. When I started using MMJ for my hip pain before I had my replacement, I don’t want to ever even look at a benzo again. I now enjoy the occasional craft beer or cocktail and a couple of glasses of wine will put me under the table, lol.

          Weed is just awesome for insomnia, particularly the kind where you just can’t turn your brain off. It doesn’t put your brain to sleep or anything but just relaxes it, slows your thoughts a bit so sleep can creep in like it should. I sleep great and that alone is a huge boost to everyone’s mental health. Now that I get good restful sleep every night I can handle the anxieties that crop up on a daily basis.

  • cats530

    It’s funny how the right wing think tank’s astroturfers are in damage control mode on articles about single-payer. It’s the worst thing in the world EVER! The sky is falling! The “free stuff” meme is on full-tilt. The Canadian system is terrible and there are no success stories. It’s SOCIALISM! How are we going to pay for it?

    Usually I get no replies to my rebuttals from the bots, but if I reply to an individual and suggest cutting the MIC budget (for starters) there are howls of outrage. When I point out the socialism of corporate welfare there are whines about job creators. When I point out the majority of the civilized world has some form of socialized medicine, there is silence.

    • Lefty Wright

      The US has a big socialized medicine structure. Medicare, Medicaid, and VA are just three examples. By extending that to tax benefits for company sponsored health plans and the fact that they are not taxed as benefits to the employees, you could say that about 75% of US health care is socialized in terms of government subsidies.

      • cats530

        I’ll have to add your rationale to my arsenal. Thank you!

    • Three Finger Salute

      There’s silence because Americans don’t want to admit that other countries even exist. See my post about American exceptionalism above. It’s become a religious doctrine thanks to who else but Reagan. Pointing out that other countries do things better than we do is like pointing out that maybe there are some elements of another religion that aren’t so bad, and parts of your own which are.

  • Martin Chambers

    It needs to be nicknamed “Trumpcare”.
    Trump is stupid enough to insist it pass at once and attack any republicans who oppose it.

    • cats530

      If it would a great system I don’t care what they call it: F.A. Hayek Care, Ayn Randian Care, Trump Care. In fact, it would be a slap in the face to people with those ideologies. Reminiscent of the Orwellian-ly named GOP bills like the PATRIOT Act: The opposite of the meaning.

  • Sean Jungian

    Nancy Pelosi better take note of which way the wind is blowing and step up to support this.

    • Chyron HR

      How exactly do representatives co-sponsor bills in the senate?

      OH, SORRY, it’s not about the bill, it’s about declaring fealty to the junior Senator from Vermont. My bad.

      • Carpe Vagenda

        More like it’s forcing the wingers pretending to be the junior Senator’s fans online to find a new excuse to attack potential Democratic frontrunners.

    • NeoliberalBanksterCaptainHowdy

      She has a real job, which is defending the ACA, not naming post offices.

    • Lefty Wright

      You obviously have not read down very far in the comments. I think most people here support universal health care. Many just think that Bernie’s plan lacks lots of details that will be needed before anyone would think of voting for it. Right now (unless he has popped it out in the last few minutes), there are no details on his plan. The one he presented during his campaign had way too many holes and faulty projections to seriously consider. Personally, before I put my name on something, I want as many details as possible. Look at the bills Bernie and the GOP attacked Clinton on. Some involved multiple sections and actions, were basically a done deal, and she got some modifications to soften the impact. It’s called compromise. But it became an albatross around her neck during the campaign. As a politician, never sign on to something you have never seen. And if it lacks any details on costs or qualifications, back away quickly.

      • NeoliberalBanksterCaptainHowdy

        The Urban Foundation, which appears to be quite legit, assessed his 2016 campaign plan at $32 trillion. Bernie’s response is to discredit think tanks as pharma whores.

        • pstokk

          10 year calculation. Annual health spending is about 3.2 trillion, with 1.2 billion of that already public spending on Medicare and Medicaid. So costs, even 32 trillion over 10 years, are not really the big issue here. Those numbers just seem big, they will be about the same no matter how they financed. We’re already in a world of gigantic health costs, in absolute terms, which is unavoidable, and in per capita terms, compared to every other rich country, which is just ridiculous.
          Which is not to say that the construction of the plan and ways to pay for it are not important, and Sanders has a history of glossing over such things and just plain touting ridiculous economic calculations. See Krugman, for example. on his claims for GDP growth during the campaign.
          But whatever gets us there, fine.

        • CripesAmighty

          You’ve said that before. First, that figure is over a 10 year period. Second it’s not a net cost figure minus new tax revenues and premiums shifted from the private insurance rackets. Nor does it include savings realized by eliminating the associated superfluous costs inherent therein (profits, marketing, ‘claims management (denial), litigation, salaries for duplicate bureaucracies, executive salaries, stock buybacks…)

      • Maybe

        Since the bill won’t even be brought to the floor I don’t think its technical details are a problem. What it can do is help redefine the Dem party and give Dems something to rally around in future elections.

        • jesterpunk

          Why not put up a full bill anyway? Mitch did bring up the idea before to troll democrats and if he does it again they can say “Hey since you want to vote on it here is our bill”. Putting up half assed measures just seems to me like the republicans 60+ repeal the ACA votes.

          • Maybe

            I’m not even sure what “full bill” means. Any bill this complex is going to go through a lot of discussion and amendments when/if it proceeds through Congress.

            And one way this will differ from the Repubs’ 60+ repeal the ACA votes is that this bill won’t come up for a vote at all as long as the Repubs control the House. That makes it, at this point, largely symbolic.

    • Carpe Vagenda

      You might consider reading the room before you start threatening Nancy Pelosi from the lofty promontory of your Disqus account :)

      • Chyron HR

        If she doesn’t get in line, then Our Revolution will get a SECOND bro to primary her.

        • Carpe Vagenda

          Maybe he’ll be a Republican, and they can pay for it.

      • CripesAmighty

        Funny, I didn’t see anybody ‘threatening’ Pelosi, but sure seems to be some piling-on…

        • Carpe Vagenda

          No, really? And the egg thinks “Nancy Pelosi better take note of which way the wind is blowing” because it’s afraid her kite is going to get caught in a tree?

    • jesterpunk
    • NeoliberalBanksterCaptainHowdy

      ..

    • NeoliberalBanksterCaptainHowdy
    • Marceline

      Even when you people get what you claim to want you just dig further into being bullying dicks.

      • NeoliberalBanksterCaptainHowdy

        Bolsheviks.

        • CripesAmighty

          And that’s a perjorative?

    • Maybe

      Nancy Pelosi is a much more capable leader and politician than Sanders is. Her control of her caucus since Trump took over has been amazing.

      She will support this when it is the right moment. She is a liberal, elected from the San Francisco area.

    • Sean Jungian

      I don’t want to bust up everyone’s “Bernie-Bro Bashing Orgy” here, but I’m not a Bernie supporter, and never have been.

      However, I do support universal health care and I’d like to see Pelosi get behind that idea.

      • The Rain in Spain’s Therapist

        So why only single out Pelosi? Schumer wasn’t a fan either but no one seems to notice.

      • jesterpunk

        You dont know how congress works do you? Pelosi is in the house, this article (and bill) are in the Senate. But its funny that anytime something comes up its always Pelosi or another women who is singled out.

    • FeloniousMonk

      Much better if she actively opposes. Democrats won the health care debate already, at enormous political cost. Doing it again would be stupid and she wants a majority to work with.

  • NeoliberalBanksterCaptainHowdy

    Am I the only person whose skin is crawling now that Bernie can claim success in imposing litmus tests on Democrats?

    • Lefty Wright

      no.

    • Carpe Vagenda

      I think, actually, that he may find this to be a pyrrhic victory.

    • Chyron HR

      If Bernie insists on being both inside the tent AND pissing inside the tent, the only thing to do is let him keep doing it until his followers realize realize that they’re covered with piss. Then there’s maybe a 50% chance that they’ll settle down and stop trying to overturn the party.

    • Zippy W Pinhead

      It does bother me that the villagers have apparently never heard of John Conyers

    • ariel_gee_398

      Well, as long as it’s one of his policies and not something icky like abortion.

    • Marceline

      Bernie claims success even when he loses. His bill is going to die and then we can move on.

      • Maybe

        The bill won’t move, but the Dem party can use it as a rallying point. Look at the mileage the Repubs have gotten out of losing Roe versus Wade.

    • Maybe

      I don’t think Bernie has that power. That doesn’t mean he can’t have a good idea.

      • ahughes798

        Plus, it wasn’t his idea. It’s been kicked around since Nixon, and by Nixon, and maybe before that, even.

        • Maybe

          Certainly Medicare for all isn’t his idea. But bringing it up right now as an issue is. Granted that others have done it before, but perhaps it has a better chance to gain traction now.

          It’s worth a try. The bill won’t come up for a vote, but it may start seeping into the public mind.

    • FeloniousMonk

      No, you are not the only one. It is very disheartening. Instead of tackling climate change and wage stagnation with major reforms to taxes and stimulus, we’re going to Monday Morning Quarterback BHO’s major achievement, and see if we can’t do 2010 over again like Groundhog Day. Yikes.

      • NeoliberalBanksterCaptainHowdy

        They’ve been MMQing it since 2010, it is the foundation of leftbagging.

  • Marla

    This proposed bill will never pass the Rethuglicon House. Why? There’s nothing in it that says they can loot the dept. of Treasury

    • Maybe

      Also, Paul Ryan will never bring it up for a vote. Check out the Hastert rule.

      But it may take root and start to redefine the Dem party for the future.

      • Ms.Moon

        The Hastert rule closeted republican perverts can put chairs in bathrooms to watch teenage boys shower?

        • Maybe

          That could certainly be a consequence, but it’s not the rule itself.

          The Hastert rule says that when the Repubs control the House no bill will be brought up for a vote unless the majority of Repubs support it. that is why the Freedom Caucus has so much power to block things.

          The rule codifies the idea that the other party (and its voters) should have no representation at all in the House.

          • Ms.Moon

            I know that but I always describe it that way to remind everyone that Dennis Hastert was an awful human being and I love the look Republicans get when I bring this up.

          • Maybe

            Sorry for the lecture then. Most people are surprised when they learn about the Hastert rule.

            Hastert was awful, but at this point I think he’s been Trumped.

  • Three Finger Salute

    Another factor in American opposition to a national healthcare policy is the cult mindset of “American exceptionalism.” The minute you bring up the possibility that, horror of horrors, there’s something that we could learn from by observing how other countries do something better than we do, all bets are off. So when Hillary or Obama bring up Britain’s NHS, France’s system or the Soviet Socialist Republic of Canuckistan, Americans get infuriated because now you’re daring to say that “we’re not #1” and we’re not the most perfect, infallible country in the world that was created from whole cloth by God. You’re a globalist, a cosmopolitan-biased international elite, you don’t want to put America First™ and all else be damned. I’m sure they have a version of that Animaniacs song “Yakko’s World” where all the countries are just America.

    I don’t know how the Democrats would get people on board with this without bringing up the different models of other countries, or even so much as mentioning that other countries exist at all. Bernie seems to be fond of single-payer, and so keeps bringing up the “Canadian-style” system. I love Justin, and I really don’t want Rideau Cottage to get tiki-torched by a wingnut on “vacation,” so I want Bernie to shut up about Canada.

    • NeoliberalBanksterCaptainHowdy

      Say it’s in the Magna Carta, that will work.

      • Three Finger Salute

        Nah, “Magna Carta” sounds too Mexican. You’d have to smuggle the actual law from Canada out of the country, pepper it with references to the Bible and beating the Soviets, and make up a plausible lie that it was found in the archives of the Reagan Library. As for that famous recording of Reagan denouncing universal healthcare, you’d have to convince the rubes that it wasn’t really Reagan at all, but fake news from a Soviet sound engineering program that mimicked Reagan’s voice. Reagan wrote this policy himself after being visited by Jesus during World War II. “Tommy Douglas” was the secret name he used to avoid being detected by Soviet spies. Then you get Jack Bauer himself to make a promotional advertisement for the healthcare policy saying how proud he was of Reagan adopting the name of his grandfather, so he could bravely and heroically do right for the American people. Insert stock footage of the flag, veterans, pickup trucks, churches, and a Toby Keith song, and before you know it, it’s morning again in Canmerica.

        • NeoliberalBanksterCaptainHowdy

          Years back, some teabagger tried to require that all legislation have a basis in the Magna Carta.

          • Three Finger Salute

            Has he even read it? Wait — can he even read? Anything?

          • Maybe

            I remember another who wanted to get rid of Spanish words in the U.S.

            That would make “Remember the Alamo” into “Remember the Poplar.” And do away with a whole bunch of Texas’ city and geographical names.

          • peregrin

            We’re going to have to find a new name for Montana then too.

          • Maybe

            Tell me about it.

            I live in California. Near Sacramento. Up north from Los Angeles.

            Of course, California politicians are not talking nonsense about getting rid of Spanish words.

          • ahughes798

            The Midwest simply cannot abide living without tornadoes. What should we call them instead? God’s middle finger?

          • Maybe

            Well, when climate disasters hit liberal areas they are generally called God’s wrath brought down upon the liberal unbelievers.

            I think when they hit Red areas they are ObamaCanes.

          • ahughes798

            I worked for a day in Washington, IL after an EF4 tornado went through it. Complete and utter destruction. It’s a red county, so it was an OBamanado.

          • Maybe

            I’d ask if it had sharks in it, but they would be superfluous in a red county.

          • ahughes798

            ROFL! I don’t want to judge someone who has just lost everything they owned reacts in a situation like that, but some of those folks were pretty mean to some of the volunteers. I guess it just could have been stress, but jeez!

          • Maybe

            Stress can cause a lot of snarling. I snarl at my cats when I have a migraine and they dare to exist near me. Fortunately they ignore it, so I hope the volunteers can too.

          • ahughes798

            We did. It was especially hard for me, because I don’t like taking lip from anyone, especially when you’re trying to help them. God bless the volunteers in FL.

          • Maybe

            Totally agree.

          • ahughes798

            The sharks there were quite happy to be getting all the evil gubmint Obamamoney help they could get, though. Maybe we could call tornadoes the “Flying Fickle Finger of Fate?”

          • Maybe

            I wonder if now would be a bad time to suggest that Texas follow through with their secession plan?

            Only to the secessionists, of course.

    • Lefty Wright

      I think the possibility of losing the ACA woke many people up to the need for a role in health care beyond Medicare. People were upset about destroying not just the ACA marketplaces but also the entire Medicaid system. Years ago, I started mentioning that you have not only the people directly benefiting from these programs, you have the family members, neighbors, and friends that love them. Taking Medicaid away from the 62 year old grandmother impacts her three kids, her 8 grandkids, her church members, and her neighbors who see her struggling for stay alive. So cutting 5 million people gets the notice of 40 million, and they don’t want grandma to die. When the GOP made their assault on those programs, the white people finally realized that the Republicans intended to take away their benefits too, not just those “other people” in the big cities. Even though “they deserved their Medicaid”. But a jump to what amounts to super Medicare for All and the costs involved may still be too much for most people to swallow. 90% of people have health insurance. Millions more could if some states started the expanded Medicaid and congress fixed the ACA marketplaces. Many people will not see the need to change anything when it calls for a big tax increase. Something Bernie keeps dodging.

      • Three Finger Salute

        We wouldn’t have to have such a bigly yuge tax increase on regular people if we would tax corporations and stop wasting money blowing up other countries, but there I go again being a commonist.

        • Lefty Wright

          But we neeeeed those $13 billion carriers and those $250 million fighters. Even Bernie agrees with that, as long as Lockheed keeps a factory in Vermont.

          • Three Finger Salute

            And we need to keep plundering the desert for precious petroleum fluids!

          • Maybe

            Not true. We’re going after Afghanistan for its MINERAL wealth, so there.
            https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/25/world/asia/afghanistan-trump-mineral-deposits.html?mcubz=3

          • Maybe

            I admire Bernie and believe that he is a true progressive. However, as you pointed out, he is also a career politician who will vote to benefit Vermont corporations at taxpayer expense.

            I also believe that Bernie does not have an ideal temperament to be President. He has been in office a long time and does not have a long list of accomplishments. He also can get snarly and we don’t need another snarly President. In many ways Bernie is the Ross Perot of the Left.

  • cats530

    “In 2001, Thailand introduced the Universal Coverage Scheme (UCS). It’s described as “one of the most ambitious healthcare reforms ever undertaken in a developing country” in the book Millions Saved: New Cases of Proven Success in Global Health. The UCS, which spread to all provinces the following year, provides outpatient, inpatient and emergency care, available to all according to need. By 2011, the program covered 48 million Thais, or 98% of the population.

    Several things worked in favor of Thailand’s UCS, including a sustained support system and a broad reach. Reformers from the 2001 general election’s winning political party, Thai RakThai, held leadership positions, and they were able to help back the
    program. As described by Dr Suwit Wibulpolprasert, the program’s policy director and Thailand’s deputy secretary of the ministry of health at the time, the UCS had to go wide quickly. “The challenge was to implement it fast,” he says. “It couldn’t be done over 10 years because there was huge political pressure.”

    Thailand’s UCS was implemented in every province by January 2002, but this level of comprehensive care had taken decades to develop. Since the 1970s, free medical care had been available to some people in poverty, but the country had a range of health insurance schemes that left many without coverage. Developing infrastructure – hospitals, clinics and trained staff – to support universal coverage took years.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/health-revolution/2016/may/24/thailand-universal-healthcare-ucs-patients-government-political

    • Three Finger Salute

      I figured it wouldn’t be implemented here for decades either. We should have done this 50 years ago but no, blah-blah Soviet this and that. Not to mention, invoking Thailand as a comparison model is likely to infuriate the rubes. Thailand’s government is a hybrid junta-monarchy that has the Victor Charlies and Khmer Rouge as neighbors. Also, it’s mostly not-white people living there.

      • Maybe

        The good news is that Medicare already exists. Adding everyone to it will arguably be less complicated than the creation of the ACA structure.

        • Frank Underboob

          That, & the fact that the Right base are familiar with it & love it, is exactly why I’ve been arguing for implementing Universal by expanding Medicare since the 90s. It’s always seemed nuts to me to try & build a new system from scratch.

          • Maybe

            I did read a good point elsewhere, though, that I had not considered before. A lot of people who get their insurance through their employers like what they have and would be furious if forced to switch. We already saw a lot of anger when the ACA killed substandard policies. People hadn’t really lost anything, but they thought they had. This helped the Repubs to demonize the ACA.

            Because of this it might be best to start by making Medicare optional. It could just be another plan that people (and employers) could buy. This would also be a way to finance the Medicare expansion, with subsidies given to those who needed help.

          • Frank Underboob

            Okay, this is a misconception about how universal-healthcare works that seems to be very common in the USA. To the best of my knowledge, there is no country that has it that forbids people from having private coverage if they want it. In my country (Australia) there are plenty of companies offering private cover that (allegedly) offers better services, such as private hospital rooms, etc.
            Think of all the people in the US who’re covered by Medicare now; are they forbidden from getting private cover if that’s what they prefer? Of course they aren’t.

          • Maybe

            I have Medicare and also have a private supplemental plan and prescription insurance, so I know how that part works. To qualify for Medicare I had to pay into Medicare for many years when I worked. I pay three monthly fees.

            My point was that people who are perfectly satisfied now with the plan they have will not want to change in any way and that could cause a lot of resistance. We already saw this when the ACA began and some people lost their cheap, substandard plans that didn’t actually cover anything. They were better off, but didn’t know it. That emotional resistance is why I suggested Medicare should at first be offered as an option.

            How do you think those people and their current should be handled during a transition to Medicare for All?

          • Frank Underboob

            IMO, just let them keep on doing what they’re doing now, if that’s what they prefer. It works for us in Australia, & I can’t think of any good reason not to do the same in the US. And I agree with you about the emotional issues, which were a huge problem with the ACA roll-out.

      • JustDon’tSayDignity

        OK, then, let’s pick a couple European countries.

      • ahughes798

        I believe Nixon was in favor of Universal Coverage. Funny, that.

        As a side note, my former Congressthing, Democrat(?!) Melissa Bean voted for: “The bankruptcy bill, the estate tax repeal, CAFTA, the AHP bill that guts state healthcare protection laws, the Enron/Halliburton energy bill, the Patriot Act, the Real ID Act, the Iraq War, another bloated defense budget, the flag desecration amendment, and the recent leave-no-millionaire-behind “tax relief” bill.” – Daily Kos. She went to work for Wall Street the second she left office. This is why I mistrust “centrist” or Establishment Democrats. I don’t think it’s baseless paranoia to feel that way.

        I lived in her district while all the above happened, I was furious about it and raised no small amount of hell with her, personally at public meetings, and in writing. Politely. Her yes vote for the bankruptcy bill made it harder for people to declare bankruptcy, even though a large percentage of bankruptcies are declared because of medical bills and divorce.

        Cory Booker has “paused” taking money from big Pharma, and pledged to return the money he received this cycle. No one knows if this has actually happened. Is he going to pause it permanently. I don’t think big Pharma is the devil incarnate. Everybody needs medicine at one point in their life or another. They’re doing what Capitalism does. Which is sometimes evil.

        I am liking Kamala Harris more and more, and finding her funny and delightful, tough, and above all, smart as hell.

  • M.E. Lawrence

    Wow, that’s one scary trio! Women. Brown-skinned folk. Come to rob us of our natural right to get sick and lose all we have getting well, as Those People are wont to do. (Have been reading “Strangers in Their Own Land,” not a happy-musical kind of book, but the sight of Booker, Harris & Warren makes me feel somewhat better.)

  • Marceline
    • Three Finger Salute

      “SNL is fake news! SAD!”

      • Marceline

        I saw a video on YouTube of Franken and Dennis Miller doing Weekend Update. Who could’ve predicted where the two of them would end up?

        • Carpe Vagenda

          back in the good old pioneer blogging days, before he announced his candidacy, he met with a bunch of us. I wouldn’t have bet against him. He’s scarily smart.

          • Bitter Scribe

            A lot of really good comedians are.

  • Bitter Scribe

    I’m heartened by the example of gay marriage. For the longest time, it was an impossible goal, until it became possible.

    (I’m just surprised some jerkasses haven’t sued yet to try to get it back before our 5 to 4 SCOTUS.)

  • Maybe

    Quite apart from the bill itself, which is a wonderful idea, I am delighted to see the Dem party start to define itself. For two long they been vagueness itself. I could name a dozen issues that define the Repubs (guns, religion, guns, women’s naughty parts, guns, anti-immigration, etc.

    The Dems used to be defined as champions of programs like SS and Medicare, but they’ve gone soft on those. Maybe they are changing and will once again believe in something enough to fight for it.

    • NeoliberalBanksterCaptainHowdy

      Huh? The ACA? DACA? The Paris accords?

      • Marceline

        I feel like these people were in a coma until just last week. I honestly can’t take this “Dems stand for nothing” nonsense seriously anymore.

        • NeoliberalBanksterCaptainHowdy

          Almost as if, if someone not at the cool lunch table does something, it doesn’t count.

          • Carpe Vagenda

            You must not have gone to high school. Because we hold these truths to be self-evident…

        • ahughes798

          Dems DO stand for things. Things that should be no-brainers. But they don’t seem to want to fight very hard for them, the exception being the ACA. I want them to fight hard, and dirty. About all the shit.

          • Marceline

            That’s a great way to become predictable and useless. Doing something just because it feels good is basically political masturbation.

          • Carpe Vagenda

            Nah. Doing something just because it feels good is basically masturbation in general. Doing something because it makes your flaccid messiah look as though he’s accomplishing something because you’d rather win the pissing match than keep the world from blowing up is political masturbation for snuff afficionados.

          • Frank Underboob

            And yet the GOP are winning in every branch.

      • Maybe

        I don’t think those issues define the Dems the same way guns define the Repubs. The Dems passed the ACA, but then failed to either define or defend it very well. The Repub got to label it as Obamacare and as socialism and as being full of death panels. That had a huge effect on the 2010 elections.

        Most people in the country seem to support DACA–even lots of Repubs–and I think the Dems hope to save it, but they aren’t making an issue of it the way Repubs make an issue of the phony War on Christmas.

        I’m not sure the Paris Accords would make for a nice, fiery issue, but Dems should come out much more strongly about the need to do something about climate change. The hurricanes that just happened would provide a solid base.

        Dems have even gone soft on SS and Medicare. They talk compromise from the start and that’s a weak bargaining position. Granted the programs need some fixing, but first they need defending.

        I’m old enough to remember Lyndon Johnson. He was a fighter. Too many Dems for too long have been wishy-washy. This may be starting to change and none too soon.

  • NeoliberalBanksterCaptainHowdy

    Bernie Sanders’s Bill Gets America Zero Percent Closer to Single Payer
    By
    Jonathan Chait
    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/09/sanderss-bill-gets-u-s-zero-percent-closer-to-single-payer.html

    • CripesAmighty

      Shorter Chait: “It’s hard, so why bother and nobody likes change anyway. Besides, everybody hates taxes so they’d rather pay twice as much to insurance rackets because capitalizms r great.”

      • FeloniousMonk

        Yeah, pragmatic considerations should never get in the way of a chance to bang your head against a wall and ignore other priorities.

        • h4rr4r

          Pragmatic considerations don’t win elections.

        • CripesAmighty

          Ok, tell that to Harris, Booker, Warren, Merkeley, Gillebrand, Markey, Baldwin, Hirono, Markey, Blumenthal, etc. that’s what they told Clinton before taking the first crack at it in ’93.
          Or just keep running vapid, contentless campaigns meeping vague, moldy milquetoast bromides about ‘faaaaaamilies’ and ‘chiiiildren’ with gauzy ads of flowers and birdies–and getting clobbered.

          • FeloniousMonk

            The clobbering happened after Clinton “took the first crack” in ’93. See Newt Gingrich. Next clobbering happened after 2009 ACA Act. See Tea Party.

            It’s the economy, stupid. The need for clean energy and the wage stagnation resulting from computerization is where it is at. Making electricity a hundred different ways, that’s where the focus needs to be.

          • CripesAmighty

            Since the first crack blew up, that was no surprise. What is more in common is that the Rs have marketing cultural and race resentment down to a science.
            Green energy is great policy (just ask Elon Musk), but so far, voters don’t give a shit.–but it is a damn sight more interesting than all that mush we keep running on. What Ds seem to be scared of is what polls best–class war. In fact, in survey after survey the item garnering the best response is ‘tax the rich’ (worded in different ways).

          • Carpe Vagenda

            How fortunate we are that our opponents don’t control pretty much all of the means of communications, which they’ve allowed to be hacked by a hostile power, and that our own useful idiots haven’t propagated their message.

      • Carpe Vagenda

        Nah. Shorter Chait: my wife works for a charter school lobbying group and I work for Bruce Wasserstein, so I don’t like it when my liberal stalking horses do popular things.

    • pstokk

      When he’s good, he’s very, very good, but when he’s bad, he’s horrid.
      Maybe I should go read the article now that I’ve opined on it.

    • FeloniousMonk

      The Single-Payer Insanity, by Bill Scher: “For Pete’s sake, Democrats. Pocket the win and move on.”

      http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/09/12/single-payer-democrats-litmus-test-bernie-sanders-215600

  • Kooolest G

    this is just as likely to pass as all the times the republicans voted to kill obamacare. and look what the republicans have to show for it (majorities in both houses, the presidency, the supreme court, 30 governors) maybe doing something just for show isn’t a terrible idea

    • Boscoe

      It certainly can’t hurt.

      • FeloniousMonk

        Uh, yes it can. See 2010 election Tea-Party-Tastrophe, complete with gerrymandering.

        • NotALiar

          This is not the same. Majorty of America is behind Medicare for all. Wingnuts even love them some Medicare.

  • LeighBowery’sLuxuryComedy

    As someone who did, in fact, lose a house to medical expenses (the ex’s, not mine, but same bank account), I absolutely agree that it’s gross. That bitch would be about paid off by now, too. Grr.

    • I am so sorry. That is just revolting in the richest country on the planet.

  • PixieThis

    I love it because they’re doing it with a PLAN and kind of marginalizing bernie’s sweeping gesture giving strength to the K’s and others to prep for both 2018 and 2020.

    • Bernie was clearly introducing his bill, that is a total pie in the sky, with the intention of it failing with only a handful of cosponsors so he could use it as a weapon against the rest of the Dem field in 2020. But Kamala saw what he was doing and did what she always does, be awesome.

      • Carpe Vagenda

        Thank you. I think so too. And Nina Turner is probably livid.

      • Wojciech

        Corey, too.

        The dudebros will still ratfuck them, bank on it. They specialize in goalpost shifting.

  • Boscoe

    “the anxiety and stress it would prevent alone would probably be a major boon for the health of all Americans”

    I’ve been saying exactly that for decades. If the Ayn Randians REALLY believed in freedom and innovation of entrepreneurship, they’d recognize that people need to be free to take risks, which is pretty difficult if you’ve lost everything to medical expenses, or are slaved to a job because you can’t risk your family’s lives to start your own thing while losing your insurance. Not to mention it is ultimately cheaper for EVERYONE. A person has to be a certifiable moran to believe that it’s not costing THEM anything to let other people end up in emergency rooms racking up massive bills that they’ll never be able to pay. Someone DOES pay, and it is ALL OF US.

    At the end of the day, medical insurance as a for-profit concept is the very definition of conflict-of-interest.

  • FeloniousMonk

    Swell. To heck with climate catastrophe and wage stagnation – let’s blow all the political capital on reforming health care AGAIN. After already winning, time to fix what ain’t broke.

    2010 Elections Redux. Tea Party, We Hardly Knew Ye.

    • NeoliberalBanksterCaptainHowdy

      Remember the leftbaggers demanding Obama’s impeachment (or Cenk and Kucinich did, for reasons) because he didn’t wave his wands and get the votes for the public option? They are what really dragged him down. These are the same people, and their descendants.

      • FeloniousMonk

        Ah yes, the condescension of Rall and Kucinich was like a right-wing caricature of the know-it-all liberal. Meanwhile, even as the Republicans are being forced to swallow it whole, we can’t enjoy the victory. They NEVER wanted repeal, and now they are proven liars. We’d be one reform bill away from 100% adoption of the Medicaid expansion but for Bernie’s team of Monday Morning Quarterbacks.

      • ahughes798

        I was disappointed in him because people in favor of a public option were not even at the table in the discussions leading up to the ACA. I think that that was wrong. But that’s it. Just disappointed.

        Does it make me a Bernie Bro if I can think of more than one serious issue at a time?

        • FeloniousMonk

          Yah, Harry Reid “wasn’t even at the table.” Somehow.

      • Carpe Vagenda

        OK, so you know what’s totally amusing about that? Is that Cenk is now a very rich man because his TYT is a lickspittle wingnut servant of Buddy Roemer, BFF and fellow Bloomberg property of one Joe Lieberman, the man who singlehandedly slaughtered the public option.

    • NotALiar

      So if it wasnt Bernie Sanders behind this bill you’d say the same thing?

      • FeloniousMonk

        I don’t care which Obama-hating, “he’s not liberal enough,” Bolshevik is behind the bill. Obama pulled off a magical thing with ACA. All that’s left is to kick the point after a touchdown. How do people not see this?

        • NotALiar

          I’m unable to contiue this argument out of the enormous amount of love and respect I have for Thelonious Monk and your amazing user name.

          • FeloniousMonk

            Well I shouldn’t have gotten snippy I suppose.

          • NotALiar

            It’s all good my friend. Adults can disagree and not hate each other. And I won’t even call you a cuck!

  • whitroth

    Horrors! I mean, the Second Coming, er, Ayn Rand, said that all Good Christians, I mean, Americans, should fix their medical needs by their bootstraps, and if they can’t, then they should die on the date Appointed By God ™.

    • ahughes798

      I thought she was an atheist?

      • whitroth

        *snicker* You want to piss off Randians, remind them that she lived her last years on social security and Medicare.

  • h4rr4r

    This is how you get elected.

    Focus on grand vision, aim for the sky. Shift the overton window to the left.

    • FeloniousMonk

      That’s now how anybody else ever did it. Not even Lincoln started with revolution.

      • h4rr4r

        Hope and Change, ring any bells?

    • HazooToo

      Not gonna argue with that, but it also helps if you already have a rocket built, or at least plans for how to build one.

  • what, me worry?

    …and an Independent shall lead them.

    Cuz gawd know there isn’t a leader in the Democratic Party worth a damn. Where were all these clowns when this debate could have won the White House? Oh, yeah, backing the “leader” who’s still opposed to it.

    • Except for Conyers who has been introducing a Medicare for All bill for more than a decade. But sure, Bernie is the savior, sure Jan.

    • He’s not a dem again? Does this mean we can stop listening to him telling us to nominate anti choice candidates?

      • what, me worry?

        Hillary’s running around flogging a whinging novel about all those who done her wrong and how the universe is so unfair.

        Sanders is moving legislation forward to push his agenda to lower inequality.

        No one is talking about Hillary’s technocratic minor tweaks to the ACA anymore. Now, even her most steadfast allies are signing up for Medicare for All.

        Hillary may have won the primary, but Sanders agenda won the debate of ideas. You still can’t stand it, can you?

        • sgt. jmk of the résistance

          Yawn.

          You just can’t stand that your boy was beaten by a girl, can you?

    • Robyn Ryan

      Circling the old white man wagons around Sanders. ‘No girls allowed!’ https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/bd17ba1b1b2dfff0a3befd911e7f6d36daaf5b910b4e039c50026ac386c64c30.jpg

      • joetheragman

        typical I am a girl and I am a victim. She set up teh server and she lied about it. I know accountability is only for males in your world.

    • sgt. jmk of the résistance

      (*looks at name…rolls eyes… finds appropriate response*)
      http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/001/070/005/de6.png

    • dshwa

      Someone seems to have forgotten (conveniently, no doubt) that the start of all the Hillary vitriol that Sanders supporters glomned on to and morphed into not a liberal establishment blah blah blah got started in 1993 when are started trying to pass universal coverage.

  • Angela Ruzzo

    I got Medicare 6 months ago. I went to the Orthopedic Clinic this afternoon because my right knee is suddenly not working. I paid nothing. No copay, no nothing. The lady at the check-in desk said “We love Medicare patients, it makes checking them in so simple.” I am going back next week for an injection into my knee and I will pay NOTHING. Everyone should have this, it’s wonderful.

    Except for drugs, of course…the list of drugs that Medicare won’t pay for is very long. If it’s expensive, or if it involves “women’s problems”, Medicare won’t pay for it, including insulin.

    And, of course, Part B which paid for this office visit costs me $135/mo, and my Medicare supplement costs me $135/mo, and a decent Part D Prescription Plan costs about $60/mo. But that is only slightly more than what I was paying for good group health insurance, which had a $20 copay for office visits and some serious deductibles.

    • Carpe Vagenda

      Confused. How is insulin a woman’s issue?

      • Angela Ruzzo

        It’s not, it’s just one of the best-known drugs that Medicare won’t pay for.

      • HazooToo

        It isn’t, but my Mom used to pay $500 for just one box of pre-filled insulin pens. I may be remembering wrong, but I think they lasted about a month.

        • SprinklemagicResistancebuns

          If she was paying that while not in the coverage gap, she either had the shittiest part D plan ever, or that was before Medicare part D, when there was no medicare drug coverage.

          • HazooToo

            That was in the gap. Which came around just frequently enough that she figured they were hoping she would just die already, and just rarely enough that we never could figure out when it would hit. It would be nice if there was a way to see how close you were to the gap, so you could plan accordingly!

          • SprinklemagicResistancebuns

            As pharmacist, I’ve tried to figure out how people could do that every year, but there just doesn’t seem to be a way to do it. You never know how much the insurance is actually paying toward the drug (the little thing on the receipt at the pharmacy is how much they saved you from the cash price), so you can’t even keep track yourself. There’s some info we can see in the pharmacy (at least here at the big W), but I don’t think we can tell when the gap is coming up, just that the price you’re being charged is being applied.

            I haven’t had it happen in a while, but I used to occasionally have an old old (I am a young old) complain about the gap and “that damn obamacare”. I would then have to remind them that part D was put in place by Shrub II, and it was a gift to the drug companies. Also too that the ACA is slowly closing the gap. As long as the thugs continue to fail to repeal, the gap will eventually close. Now we just need to get the ability for medicare to negotiate drug prices and it’ll be real insurance.

            tl;dr: medicare part D sucks frequently, but it’s better than when there was no medicare drug program, when my heart was broken on a daily basis.

          • HazooToo

            Right now, I’m worried about my Dad. Mom’s gone, but he’s still kicking, and he needs mycophenalate (sp?) and Aetna has decided they don’t wanna pay for it anymore. They SAID they told him, and he did get a letter about it… well after the enrollment period was over! He’s exhausted all his “in the system” options for getting them to change their minds, and they refused. So he’s paying full price for his meds, and they’re cheaper than the insulin was, but only by about $200…

    • SprinklemagicResistancebuns

      Medicare part D most certainly does cover insulin.

      • Angela Ruzzo

        Well, I have talked to 2 women at the pharmacy counter who use insulin, and they told me Medicare does not cover insulin, they have to get it from a special state program for diabetics. A third woman told me her income is too high to qualify for the state program and she has to pay cash. Medicaid, however, does pay for insulin, but in my state the income cut-off for Medicaid is $1335/mo.

        • SprinklemagicResistancebuns

          Are you talking about medicare part D, or part B? I’m a pharmacist, and I have never seen part D outright deny insulin, full stop. They may require a different one (the same type made by the other company that makes insulin), or if it’s really crappy insurance, the vials instead of the pens, but never have I seen a plan that just doesn’t pay for any insulin.

          eta: actually, I don’t think I’ve ever seen part D deny pens vs. vials, only some of the medicaid programs.

          • Angela Ruzzo

            I am not diabetic, so I only know what several people standing in line at the pharmacy told me on multiple occasions, and they said their Part D plans did not cover insulin. Sorry I can’t be more helpful.

          • SprinklemagicResistancebuns

            Maybe don’t non-comment that medicare doesn’t cover insulin if you don’t really know. That kind of thing scares people.

  • Internet Hitler

    I bet Kirsten was all, “about fucking time!”

    • what, me worry?

      I’m sure…

      Except, Sanders has been introducing legislation like this in the Senate, and before that, in the House, since 1991. She could have signed on to any one of them. But yeah. sure. She was waiting for this one. She sure looks pleased about it during the announcement.

      https://twitter.com/TroutMaskReplca/status/908059345220288512

  • Robyn Ryan

    Is this the same bill Hillary fought for in 1993?
    I can’t imagine Sanders actually writing something that complex.
    His last big bill named a post office.
    Now, he suddenly fixes ACA?
    I smell gaslight. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/efbc86e83d70afbd37f6807915ad0d7f5bde4a0f18b143d54522d8faf0241e0f.jpg

    • Carpe Vagenda

      From what I understand (and unlike Sen Sanders I don’t pretend to understand complicated legislation) it’s a publicity-friendly less-detailed verson of Conyers’ bill. Which Sanders for decades resisted signing on to.

      • Pickles

        “I applaud Senator Bernie Sanders’ introduction of the Senate companion to my Medicare for All bill and all of the momentum he has garnered in support of a universal single-payer healthcare system….”
        – John Conyers, Jr.

        • Carpe Vagenda

          Uh, yeah.

          That was very gracious of him. If only Sanders had done the same, or acknowledged whose plan he was taking, or stolen Obama’s time machine and did it when his yearly opportunities came during his hundred and seventy years in the House.

    • Pickles
    • Tiny kaiju

      He may be sponsoring it, but rest assured people with a greater aptitude for planning will be responsible for designing the actual blueprints. Unless the Dems aren’t really sincere, in which case we’re fucked anyway.

  • Charon_69

    Canadian doctor speaking at the Sanders panel today:
    ““Single-payer health care is a symbol to us of what it truly means to be Canadian: that we take care of each other.”
    The system also makes financial sense, Martin said, with Canada paying less per capita for health care than Americans. Canadians also have longer life expectancies, lower infant mortality rates and fewer preventable deaths than their neighbours to the south.”
    Amen sister

  • Wojciech

    The devil will be in the details, and I will reserve final judgment till I see some details on Bernie’s latest litmus test. And for all of the shit I’ve talked about Bernie, if the numbers work out and something like this gets passed I will praise both the plan and Sanders.

    That said, Bernie’s track record and lack of policy wonk chops — plus the tendency of his Brocialist Army to treat every one of his pronunciamentos as Holy Writ Which Shalt Not Be Dirtied By Politicking and Compromising — make me very skeptical.

    • Maybe

      I’m not clear on why this is being talked of as a litmus test. It is an important issue, but it doesn’t define who is and who isn’t a Dem.

      For that matter, Bernie isn’t a Dem.

      I’m for Medicare for all, but I think calling it a litmus test is a dangerous label.

  • Celtic_Gnome

    Let’s face it, we do symbolic votes way cooler than the Republicans. Obamacare Repeal Bill #671? Yawn.

  • HazooToo

    This is the time in which we need to get the details DONE. We need to know exactly what will work and what won’t. Who’s paying for every step of it. How much of it is in states hands, how much is federal. We need to find a way to deal with the abortion dilemma. We need to know what we can (once we have a majority again) ram past the Republicans, and what we’ll need their support on. I don’t just want them waving this issue around like a rally flag, they need to get something done! Even if it’s just making a concrete plan that isn’t just “TAX THE RICH!” and then shrugs.

  • Spurning Beer

    Breaking news: Florida governor Rick Scott endorses “Medicare-Fraud-For-All.”

  • King Beauregard

    Until we learn the lessons from Green Mountain Single Payer’s failure — right in Bernie’s own state of Vermont — we won’t fix a goddamn thing.

    GMSP failed because the taxes required to fund it were pretty staggering — 9% income tax hike, 11.5% payroll tax hike — and those high levels of taxes were required because our medical providers are very very for-profit and expensive. Our medical providers cost 50% more than in Canada and 100% more than in much of Europe, and until we regulate them into submission, whatever coverage mechanism we choose is going to be comparably overpriced.

    No, it’s not as simple as single payer paying only a fraction of what medical providers are used to, because there is an entire chain of medical providers, and just paying the doctor or hospital less means that they won’t be able to pay their creditors or make payroll. So we need to approach this intelligently: look for inefficiencies and greed in the system, regulate as required to fix it, and repeat until costs are reined in. THEN we can make single payer work.

    Sarah Kliff rocks and she points much of this out:

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/9/13/16304474/medicare-for-all-plan-cost-bernie-sanders

    Basically, Bernie is telling us that he’s going to get us a pony and we won’t have to worry about feeding it or cleaning up after it, the only thing there is about ponies is that you get to ride them.

    • Tiny kaiju

      Vermont also has a small population,limited business tax base and an aging population. Most of the healthcare providers are paid less than elsewhere and it’s one of the reason we have a shortage of practioners aincluding GPs (which are I. Shortage nationwide) to specialists.

      • King Beauregard

        “Now if California tried it, maybe things would be different.”

        Funny you should mention that, California has trotted out a proposal and it is expected to cost as much as the entire current state budget. New York is running into the same thing. And Colorado put it on the ballot last November, and it failed by a margin of 79% – 21%. That is not a typo; single payer couldn’t crack 25%, in a blue state no less. That’s what happens when you actually work out the costs rather than, you know, assume they’ll take care of themselves.

        The size of the state isn’t the issue, the issue is cost per capita.

        “individuals can’t afford to pay the taxes required to provide the service at the same time they are a paying increasing amounts of money for private insurance.”

        You do understand that the single payer would be REPLACING the private insurance, right? They wouldn’t be paying both at once, and whoever told they would deserves an extended swirlie.

        The problem remains medical COSTS, and responsible legislators would be focusing on regulating medical providers. Sanders is not even the tiniest bit responsible, and I’m starting to have my doubts about his new pals.

  • JohnnieWHurwitz

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