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Normally, on Saturdays, we take a look at what weird misogynistic things the gross men of the internet are saying, and then laugh maniacally at them. But today, we’ve got something new and exciting and different! A woman who is saying weird misogynistic things on the internet! Well, not new, exactly — Phyllis Schlafly was doing that shit while I was still in diapers — but you know what I’m saying.

Meet Carrie Gress! Carrie is a “homeschooling mother of four, has a doctorate in philosophy from the Catholic University of America and is a faculty member at Pontifex University” — a university where you learn how to be Pope that is not at all accredited. She wrote an article for The Federalist that hilariously titled “How Acting Like A Feminist Can Ruin Your Marriage.” Which I found very interesting in light of the fact that both of my parents are feminists and they have been happily married for approximately 17,000 years, not to mention the very good marriages of other feminists I know. Weird!

I am going to guess, though — from this article — that Carrie Gress does not actually know any feminists personally, and that her opinion on his issue is largely based on a strawfeminist character she made up in her own mind. A feminism that tells women to be really, really mean and horrible to their husbands for no good reason.

Carrie’s understanding of feminism, it seems, is an amalgamation of Dove Body Wash ads and conservative fear-mongering:

“Fight like a girl,” “Strong is the new pretty,” and “Find your fierce” may sound nice, but we have to ask if they have led women to happiness or an endless fluctuation between ferocity and victimhood. For example, take Kathy Griffin presenting the faux head of Donald Trump on TV. She “resisted” but when public opinion (and a lot of money) turned away from her, she tried to spin it so she became the victim in the story.

While this example is extreme, women are daily encouraged to act boldly (and, of course, there are times when we must—I’m not suggesting becoming a door mat), but simultaneously to become the victim when things don’t go as planned. This may work in a media stunt, but it is toxic for real relationships when people are counting on wisdom, prudence, and loyalty.

Carrie does have a good point here — taking a picture of yourself holding the disembodied and bloody head of your husband could put some strain on your marriage (unless that is what he is into, sexually). I guess it is a good thing that Kathy Griffin and Donald Trump are not married, because I bet that would make the pillow talk very awkward.

She then goes onto explain that men write songs about ladies who are sweet, not feminists who NAG.

From the dawn of time, men croon about particular attributes especially found in women: loyalty, sweetness, a calming presence, kindness, thoughtfulness. Looking past lyrics dripping with lust, a pattern emerges. Dante, the Beatles, Elvis, James Taylor, Sting, The Grateful Dead, Tim McGraw, and on and on—all speak of loving a truthful, kind, loyal, soulful woman who brings them peace. There has been no love song dedicated to a nagging, angry, self-absorbed woman.

You know… I love James Taylor, but I’m just gonna guess that the problem with his relationship with Carly Simon was not that she was too feministy for his taste? Like, maybe it was the heroin? Just saying! Also like half of his songs are about Carly Simon. Also Elvis and Jerry Garcia? Really? Not exactly on my list of dudes it would be great to be in a relationship with.

Also maybe Carrie should listen to more Cat Stevens?

I could actually name several love songs men have written about women who were more than just “sweet” and “loyal.” Including some by those same people! But that point is moot, since it’s hardly as though “Fishwife 101” is a required course for Women’s Studies majors.

Not only is this non-existent feminist maxim that one ought to be terrible to their husband hurting men, Gress believes it is hurting women too:

In the meantime, women who have found husbands aren’t finding it to be paradise either. Seventy percent of divorces are initiated by women. While yes, perhaps there is blame to attribute to husbands, again there is little discussion about what women might be contributing to the split.

She then goes on to praise, of all things, an article from YourTango titled “Yes, It Is YOUR Job To Make Your Husband Happy” by one Andrea Miller, who learned the hard way that it is bad to not do your husband’s laundry for him, or something.

Miller goes on to explain that after realizing that the pain she was inflicting upon her spouse wasn’t making either of them happy, she tried something else: tenderness, less judgment and punishment, and more affection. The results, she explains, were brilliant.
[…]
While bringing out the best in her husband, Miller brought out the best of herself—kind, warm, thoughtful, compassionate. For decades, women have been told that somehow we can be happy without these things, but the real secret is as old as poetry and song.

Speaking of songs, someone should probably tell notify Carrie that Hard Hearted Hannah The Vamp of Savannah is not actually the official code that all feminists live by when it comes to our relationships.

In fact, I am pretty sure that the fact that I am a feminist has been an asset in my relationships rather than a hinderance — though possibly because I am not dating Donald Trump. Contrary to what she apparently has been led to believe, I don’t actually just go around castrating dudes for no good reason. If I am going to castrate anyone at all, I will do so thoughtfully, thank you very much.

[The Federalist]

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  • Raan
  • The Wanderer
  • kareemachan

    Our SIL has a degree in philosophy, and he would be the first to decry this woman’s “philosophy”.

  • The Wanderer

    “Fight like a girl.” I’m reminded of this one young woman at my law enforcement academy’s defensive tactics class back in 1986. She would put you on the mat, giggling the entire time.

  • Steve Cole

    Pontifex University: As an engineer, I do not toss around superlatives lightly but that has to be the biggest abuse of WordPress I have ever seen. “Masters of Sacred Arts”?? You have to be kidding me! The thumbnail bios are hilarious, but probably not meant to be ironic. Good luck w/that degree on your resume.

    • HorseChestnut

      And all for the low, low price of “under ten thousand dollars!” Sign me up!

      • Steve Cole

        Wonder what the PostDoc action is?

    • Mehmeisterjr

      It’s the poor man’s Trump University.

  • Cat Cafe for the Prosecution

    On the other hand, I have always wanted to be a fishwife.

    • Vagenda of Rebel Scum

      It’s a fine restaurant if you’re ever near Pebble Beach/Carmel. Not touristy, and prices are reasonable.

      • MizzMazz

        We have one in Seaside too. :)

      • Cat Cafe for the Prosecution

        I actually think I may have eaten there, come to think of it.

    • Mehmeisterjr

      Be a fishwife all you want. Just don’t be a canned clamwife. YOU MONSTER!!!!111,1,1!,11!!!,!!!

  • CaliCheeseSucks

    http://i.imgur.com/KNvAvjK.gif

    all speak of loving a truthful, kind, loyal, soulful woman who brings them peace.There has been no love song dedicated to a nagging, angry, self-absorbed woman.

    Likewise, bitch, there has been no love song dedicated to being a backwards, knuckledragging, abusive asshat who treats his partner like shit.

    (Well. There probably HAS been but she’s whitewashing crap, so can I.)

    • Three Finger Salute

      “Rape Me” by Nirvana?

      • HorseChestnut

        Is that about being a violent asshole?

        • Three Finger Salute

          According to Cobain, it’s apparently about a sort of Stockholm syndrome between the victim and attacker. Not really “love” except in such a way as “learns to love Big Brother”. But takes pleasure in a sort of remote fantasy of revenge.

          https://genius.com/Nirvana-rape-me-lyrics

          Controversial, sarcastic song, in which a victim of rape accepts his/her fate. And lets the rapist know that he’ll be punished and the guilt will burn.

          Kurt Cobain wanted to make a strong statement in support of women and against violence toward them. In his words, the song is a sort of poetic justice. A guy rapes a girl. He ends up in jail and is raped there. It’s also believed that the song was in direct relation to his feeling of being raped by the media, in particular Vanity Fair and MTV. Kurt also stated a parallel with “Polly”, a song told from the point of view of the rapist.

          The single featuring that and “All Apologies” got retitled “Waif Me” to sell on Wal-Mart and Kmart, but without changing the lyrics whatsoever.

      • Celtic_Gnome

        He Hit Me (And It Felt Like A Kiss) by the Motels.

    • JMP

      Sure there has!

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw7gNf_9njs

      Oh, wait…

      • Natalie Au Natural Hedonist

        That didn’t end so well for Earl.

    • cleos_mom

      “Yeah, I drank up the paycheck, cheated on you and always smell like a barn that needs cleaning out and I may have slapped you around from time to time –”

      “But I was always thinkin’ about you, darlin.’ ”

      (Of course, no word from the one on the receiving end)

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u5LZ-DN3iA

  • Vagenda of Rebel Scum

    Here’s the relationship experience of 60 years distilled down into 8 words: “If you want a friend, be a friend”.

    • BloviateMe

      It’s really that simple. Enjoy marriage with this one weird trick.

    • Angela Ruzzo

      I told several friends who were dating the wrong man “Is he a friend? Will you be friends when you are old and no longer interested in sex?” And they said no, and married the guy anyway, and have been miserable for 30+ years. So now they complain to me all the time “I should have listened to you!!”

    • Opalescent Riddles

      Miller acknowledges as much: “after realizing that the pain she was inflicting upon her spouse wasn’t making either of them happy, she tried something else: tenderness, less judgment and punishment, and more affection. The results, she explains, were brilliant.”

      Works just as well with other pronouns: “after realizing that the pain zhe was inflicting upon hir spouse wasn’t making either of them happy, zhe tried something else: tenderness, less judgment and punishment, and more affection. The results, zhe explains, were brilliant.”

      It is NOT always one partner’s job to be “nice” when the other one never is.

  • Skwerl the Taco Hunter

    Miller goes on to explain that after realizing that the pain she was inflicting upon her spouse wasn’t making either of them happy, she tried something else: tenderness, less judgment and punishment, and more affection. The results, she explains, were brilliant.

    Whew for a minute there, I thought I was supposed to bring tenderness, less judgment (and less punishment), and more affection into my relationships. Apparently feminists have taught me that such things are good.

    Time to break out the punishment wheel: https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/628460788492408f46fa272dbffed5c082b9447a56c1995a9d3e4265b3effc9f.jpg

  • The Librarian

    I dedicate “She’s a Rebel” by Green Day to all women who don’t want to be like Carrie Gress and her “philosophy”

    • Natalie Au Natural Hedonist

      Love Billie Joe Armstrong. Basket Case is my favorite. Reminds me of the t-rump now though.

  • Alex Grey

    I think bad grammar would probably kill my marriage too, if I had one.

  • BloviateMe

    How about we take the gender completely out of it, and distill it down to “don’t be dicks to each other, be good.”

    • BosGrl

      The modern “golden rule”.

    • JMP

      Is it really that hard to just be excellent to each other?

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGErt4CfLD0

      • OrG

        PARTY ON! DUDES!

      • Msgr_MΩment

        That guy was a Republican. A lot of people don’t know that.

    • Three Finger Salute

      This. So much this. I’ve always thought that placing the fem- in front of the word brings about unnecessary confusion and divisiveness, and just feeds into the battle of the sexes. The golden rule should be enough.

      • cleos_mom

        Somehow, I don’t think that referring to ourselves as “inists”is going to accomplish much. Of course, there’s always Saran Wrap. . . . .

    • Angela Ruzzo

      Amen. Why is this so hard to do?

  • JMP

    How acting like a feminist can your marriage, if you’re married to a misogynist selfish dickwad who you would be much, much better off divorcing anyway.

  • schmannity

    She likes to be treated like a queen.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iICDCj-qOEU

    • Ms.MLG on Maui

      Best. Song. Ever.

      • schmannity

        Slo GinFizz, Polyester curtains and a redwood deck. They just don’t write them like that anymore.

  • OrdinaryJoe

    My dear momma used to say: “if you want her to treat you like a boyfriend that she loves you damn well better be treating her like a girlfriend that you love.” Momma was smart.

  • Scooby

    It’s a tradgedy the Mooch never got to read this.

    • Royal Ugly Dude

      It’s not his fault his wife turned into a feminist (or maybe it is).

      • Scooby

        Bait and switch?

        • Msgr_MΩment

          Switch to batin’ full time.

  • Painter of Goats

    You know I always wondered about those fishwives. Does being married to a fish make them cranky or do they marry fish because they are already cranky and normal men won’t have them?

    • Msgr_MΩment

      I won’t give away the spoiler, but it’s covered in Animal Husbandry 101.

      • Celtic_Gnome

        Well, that means Rick Perry can’t explain it to us. He barely skated through that course.

    • Swampgas_Man

      I always assumed it was an odor issue.

      • cleos_mom

        For actual fishwives, more likely it was a being-worked-to-death issue.

    • Teecha

      It’s coz they had loud voices. They had to shout to compete with their neighbours to sell their husband’s catch.

      Sigh. ETA reread your comment properly. I’ve only heard of the expression shouting like a fish wife, or shrieking like a fish wife.

  • Villago Delenda Est

    Carrie can go Bannon herself.

    • BloviateMe

      Backward and in heels.

  • GreenGoldSharpie

    The Federalist is pretty much a garbage site. Seriously, they’ve been pushing this horrendous social agenda for a good while.

    • Villago Delenda Est

      Fighting a futile rear-guard action against the future.

      • Komsumverweigerer Ron

        I wish they were bright enough to know they’re gonna lose the war, and cut their losses by surrendering.

  • I already said “Fuck my life” in the previous thread, so I will instead let Pontifex Cuntica that this is in fact my theme song:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjrA8B1Pd-Y

    Also too, it would be a real shock if *any* article criticizing Feminism actually made reference to actual Feminism.

  • Dick St. Dipshit

    And for all you mean nasty women

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dDr5Ztk-DBk

  • OrG

    Damn,I thought “Hard Hearted Hannah” was gonna be a punk song:(

  • alanb
  • puredog

    Not just thoughtfully, you should do it mindfully as well.

  • WomanInThePersistence

    A classic. And yes, it’s sung by a scary feminist.

    https://youtu.be/NUvmPfgVTGQ

    • Major_Major_Major

      Scary feminist, now that’s redundant.-every wingnut ever

  • Msgr_MΩment

    Pontifex ite domum!

    • Dick St. Dipshit

      Don’t cut my balls off!

  • ManchuCandidate

    I’ve seen fire and I’ve seen rain.
    I’ve seen asinine essays that I thought would never end.
    I’ve seen social cons decrying feminism as a fiend
    But I always knew they’d just blame all ladies again.

    • *golf clap*

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  • Swampgas_Man

    You’d think these anti-feministas would at least mention, say, Andrea Dworkin’s brand of feminism. Maybe they don’t because nobody really follows that stuff.

  • Anna Rompage

    I suppose all those women who ran off with the dog & the pick up truck, that have been written about since the time country & western music was created, must have been feminists….

    • OrG

      I think you know the answer to that.

    • Natalie Au Natural Hedonist

      Somebody has to perpetuate the myth. Maybe she left because he was a whiny loser and she couldn’t take him drinking up all the money.

  • PsycWench

    This song sums up the attitude of real men toward partners (warning, it’s bluegrass) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIbGH3w0jGU

    • This is a pretty Bitchin’ song. :)

    • WomanInThePersistence

      I really love this. Thanks!

    • Vagenda and Pee-ara

      Very catchy.

  • Msgr_MΩment

    Carrie? Give me Samantha or Miranda any day.

  • GreenGoldSharpie

    We tried this once after WW2 when social conservatism defined by the Depression and war sent women back into the home. Female alcoholism spiked and women’s lib was reborn with their daughters.

    That should tell you all you need to know.

    • Dick St. Dipshit

      Funny how we actually celebrated female strength when things were deadly serious. Thanks gals, couldn’t a done it without you. Now run along.

      https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/02/RosieTheRiveter.jpg

      • Natalie Au Natural Hedonist

        One of my best guy pals mom was an aeronautic engineer during ww2, she was working for Nasa. The guys came home from war and it was all, “go home and have babies little lady because the men are back”. One man actually threw her resume’ in the trash in front of her! I have never forgotten her story and the outrage it still makes me feel.

    • Ms.Moon

      Also women embraced “mother’s little helper” pills as well.

  • Grokenstein
  • I will also too let one Andrea Miller know that I have made men happy by inflicting pain, some of those worms begged for more pain.

  • jesterpunk
  • beatbort

    The reason marriages feel stress is because of shite like this–self-appointed experts telling you what your marriage is supposed to be. Both sides of every married couple I know go to work every day. That is, they already have jobs.
    They do not need another job called “Marriage.”
    They both need a safe haven. That’s what is meant by marriage.
    Sheesh, stop making me sound like Linus on the Charlie Brown Christmas Special!

    • tza

      Yep. While my dad did do a little work on his communication skills when I was a kid (he liked to joke that it was mandatory for work but was much more useful for understanding his autistic daughter, me) my parents always have been perfectly secure in their relationship with each other.

      Tho a lot of other moms wanted to know how she “got” my dad to do as many chores as he does and it’s like…that’s just his thing. He likes to cook and garden. He just does it. He does the ironing because he needs it done just so for his clothes and would do it over again anyway so it saves time for him to do it from the start. There’s no grand secret or trick. He’s just a rounded human being capable of contributing to the household work. Which is more than I could say for a lot of my friends’ dads growing up…

  • beatbort

    Carrie Gress, Andrea Miller.
    Let me guess: Both have either been married several times or have never been married. That’s what makes them experts about the marriages of total strangers

  • Martini Ambassador 🍸

    Here’s how feminism is destroying marriage!
    Florida woman (naturally!) blames Trump arguments for divorce
    Wait, wot?

    • Vagenda and Pee-ara

      Is that article about Scaramucci’s wife?

      • Martini Ambassador 🍸

        Sort of, but roles reversed.

  • HorseChestnut
  • Anna Rompage

    I don’t know why so many women have such a hard time with assuming their roll as a traditional wife.

    I mean come on, what’s so hard about waking up @ 4:30 am, getting the kids ready for school, packing them a lunch, feeding the family breakfast, then taking the kids to school, going to work an 8 hour day, picking the kids up from daycare, coming home and making donner for the family, making sure the kids have done their homework, fetching the hubby a beer or cocktail while he sits in the lazy boy watching sports ball, and then letting him have his way with you when you go to bed at 11, even though you were going non-stop for the last 18 hours…

    • Steve Cole

      Hmmm…. I’m clearly doing this wrong. I’ll be sharing this one.

    • cleos_mom

      Well, the presumably theoretical woman in that scenario might consider allowing ‘the hubby’ to get his own beer or cocktail. Obviously nothing to lose since the sex life has been reduced to him “having his way.”

      The comments to that article were encouraging.

  • Three Finger Salute

    So, in all (or at least some) seriousness, feminism does get a bad rap (fish wrap?) as misandrist man-hatred because of the extremists like Dworkin (who collaborated with Ed fucking Meese and the Reagan evangelicals on a totalitarian censorship campaign against pornography) and whatever the fuck the college kids are into these days, turning themselves into “free-bleeding” human pin cushions with pink armpit hair and all that cringeworthy meme stuff all over YouTube.

    “Reclaiming” phrases like “nasty woman” isn’t going to help, because really, nobody should want to be nasty any way you define it. Neither is being as raunchy and classless as Trump, Mooch and the “bro” crowd either — if anything, Amy Schumer and the Hollywood trend of “female Hangover movies” have done a disservice to women. Michelle Obama is right; when they go low, we need to go high.

    But in terms of day-to-day, meat-and-potatoes issues like workplace family leave and general wage fairness (mostly in the developed world), and horrible big ones like FGM and the maltreatment of girls and women in the developing world, how can sensible, golden-rule egalitarians take “feminism” back to be, dare I say it, respectable? Is there a way to downplay or distance from the negative stuff (maybe even by not using the “F word” itself — language matters, as Bernie found out when he refused to disavow the term socialism) and still achieve the same tangible results of equality?

    • SadDemInTex

      First…just no. Second…fear is NEVER the answer. Three…words are powerful, that’s why owning “nasty woman” is important. See the eviseration of Bill Maher by Ice Cube in relation to using the “n” word.

      • Three Finger Salute

        This whole subject is getting to be like a Chinese physics equation to me. Maybe I’ve been disinfo’ed or maybe I didn’t learn enough in school, I don’t know. I think we covered feminism in history class by spending a week or so talking about the 19th amendment and “women’s rights movement”, and then all this stuff popped up on the Internet about some new crazy “brand” of feminism, but I thought that ended in the ’70s. I was always taught to not be nasty or rude, but I think I see what you’re saying, that people (certain types of men, and even some women) don’t like it when women speak up in dissent, so they swat them down and call them nasty. Protesting that you’re not nasty isn’t going to convince them, because they already have their own definition. I don’t know if it’s a gender-specific issue though, as whistleblowers always get swatted down when they call powerful people out on their errors or malfeasance.

        I just don’t like the idea that the other side ends up dragging you into the “swamp” no matter what, such that you end up having to be more aggressive like they are in order to get heard. The locker room and Madonna stuff, I do think sends a bad message though. Let stupid Trump and Scaramucci have their disgusting interviews, but we just wash our hands and disclaim that sort of behavior instead of embracing it. (Private conversations are one thing; being publicly foul-mouthed is another.) That phrase always stuck out for me, and I think it’s a good one: When they go low, we go high. Not sink to the same depth, but “ironically” or “in protest”. It’s just, well, nasty and not nice.

        • JMP

          It sounds like someone is being deliberately obtuse. There’s not a single shit wrong with cursing, using language that every single fucking person in America uses every single fucking day. Donald Trump’s Access Hollywood interview was not “locker room talk”, it wasn’t a problem because he said “pussy” – what was wrong was that he admitted to repeatedly committing sexual assault. It would have been just as wrong, and he’d be just as much of a completely vile asshole, if he had used perfectly clean language.

          Please, the act of posing as some weird Victorian prude who is actually offended by people saying “fuck” on the internet – even though every single person used that every day in real life – is complete bullshit. So is the idea that women should somehow avoid being “nasty”, in fact that plays right into misogyny – women should fucking get to act no different than men do.

          All that stuff about crazy brands of feminism you read about on the internet? That’s also complete bullshit, it’s lies told by misogynists to try and claim that they’re against feminism but not anti-woman, even though being anti-feminists fucking is anti-woman. They try and claim “misandry” is a thing, even though it does not actually exist. And I really wonder if this person here is as clueless as they’re claiming to be, or just another misogynist asshole JAQing off.

        • Richard Girlswin

          I’d say it’s a gender thing. One of the prime misogynist values is sweetness, which in that language means willingness to sublimate one’s own emotions at any given moment for the pleasure and convenience of others.

    • JMP

      No. The people who hate feminism do so because they are against egalitarianism, because they believe women should be second class citizens, and will continue to lie about what feminism is and cherry-pick nutcases like Dworkin – an unimportant marginal figure who would be pretty much unheard of if misogynists didn’t try to pretend she was the main face of feminism – in order to justify those lies and vilify feminists. Changing the name would be giving in to the assholes, and wouldn’t do anything; just look at how some liberals responded to the demonisation of the word “liberal” by replacing it with “progressive”, and the right wing just went ahead by trying to turn that into a dirty word as well.

      Also, there is no need to take feminism back to being respectable; it is respectable, and always has been. The people with whom feminism has a bad rap are woman-hating shits who are not at all respectable. And please, repeating moronic MRA memes like “turning themselves into “free-bleeding” human pin cushions with pink armpit hair” does not help, at all.

      • Three Finger Salute

        OK… so what is feminism anyway nowadays then? Because maybe I don’t get out enough (really, at all), and my exposure to it has been mostly through the Internet and those YouTube videos. By respectable I mean professional, polished, polite even, and not raunchy or aggressive like the locker-room guys. Nobody should want to be nasty. We’re taught in grade school to be nice. Or at least we should be.

        Dworkin is a censorious collaborator who sided with Reagan to take us back to the Victorians if not something similar to the Taliban. She’s an outlier extreme who should be denounced. But there’s a question I think that should be asked, is the whole booty-shaking, Madonna-Beyonce-Miley Cyrus thing really feminist though, or is it just falling back into the same trap of being reduced to T&A for the men? Is it really courageous to grab one’s own anatomy on stage even as Trump is rightly criticized for saying he wants to grab someone else’s?

        • Anna in PDX

          A. No one has to denounce Dworkin. No one brings her up but people trying to change the subject. B. Feminism 101 resources are all over the Internet for fine folks like you to get education from. C. Concern trolling is not being an ally. Have a nice day, here is a smile. 😄

          • sgt. jmk of the résistance

            I well remember arguing with some “I hate feminazis” dude who waxed eloquent about how, with Andrea Dworkin as the voice of modern feminism, it was easy to see that it’s all just man-hating and female dominance.

            He went strangely quiet when I informed him that Dworkin wasn’t the voice of modern feminism because a) her views were always on the edge and b) she’d been dead for like 15 years. I really think that came as a surprise to him.

          • Three Finger Salute

            ‘k, thanks ☺️

        • Darlin’, part of Feminism is each woman living her life her way, along with not judging other women for the choices they make.

          I am a sex-positive, under-dressed Punk Princess Feminist. My own sister used to Slut-shame about my clothes. But I will continue to be myself, dress as I wish, and do as I wish.

          I am not interested in pleasing anyone else, or in conforming to any other person’s standards. I tried that for more than 40 years of misery. For whatever time is left to me, I will be Me.

          Booty shorts and all.

          • Richard Girlswin

            This. Feminism is ensuring that every woman and girl gets to decide what being a woman or girl means for themselves. This includes pushing back at the deeper subconscious trends in our society that reinforce damaging or oppresive attitudes and behaviours.

          • Ω cynmac will never surrender

            There is something really free about turning 40, if you embrace it. I called my 40’s my “End the Bullshit” decade. And my 50’s, if I weren’t so ill, would be even more glorious. It’s satisfying to “just do you”.

          • Yes indeed. Plus, people tell me I look 35, and Ima 44.

          • Natalie Au Natural Hedonist

            Much love to you for that.

          • ~hugs~ Thank you. :)

          • Natalie Au Natural Hedonist

            ~hug back~You are welcome! ; )

        • JMP

          What the fuck is wrong with being raunchy? The idea that somehow women must always be demure, polite and respectful, that only men are allowed to be raunchy, is extremely misogynist. Fuck that shit. Feminists should be as raunchy as they want to be. And if you want to know what feminism is nowadays, try actually reading what feminists have to say, and stay away from the tons of youtube videos by misogynist fuckwits who spend all their time ranting against straw feminists to justify their hatred of women who aren’t submissive.

          Dworkin doesn’t matter. Whenever anyone invokes her and claims she speaks for feminists, that’s a sign they’re a misogynist shit whose opinion should be dismissed.

        • pussygrabber in chief

          There’s a difference between grabbing one’s own anatomy (a move made popular by Michael Jackson iirc) and grabbing someone else’s without their consent. And expecting/requiring that women be polite and non-raunchy and non-aggressive is standard misogynist drek.

  • jesterpunk
    • MizzMazz

      The whole Fontanelle album is genius.

  • GreenGoldSharpie

    Society has been telling women what to do and be, regardless of their own thoughts and values, for eons. Sadly, women do it to one another, too.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOM107PIxV8

  • Resistance Fighter Callyson

    For example, take an unrelated example of a person who did something unpopular that has nothing to do with feminism. She is a useful foil to spin the conversation about a topic I want to trash to something that will repel people who aren’t paying enough attention to realize that I am making a strawman argument.

    /fixed
    /FFS

    • DoILookAmused2u? Résistance☨

      that woman is nagging us about kathy griffin.

  • Resistance Fighter Callyson

    women are daily encouraged to act boldly (and, of course, there are
    times when we must—I’m not suggesting becoming a door mat), but
    simultaneously to become the victim when things don’t go as planned

    http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/001/865/wikipedian_protester.jpg

  • Anna in PDX

    Unpacking this shit would take a thesis length essay. Mostly the problems with such screeds as the Gress (whoops, originally types Hess. Was I thinking of Rudolf?) article are the huge, tottering towers of bullshit assumptions upon which they are constructed. One basic one is the idea that “nagging” is recommended by feminists, which is so wacky it’s not even wrong; it would require a course on how patriarchy and passive aggression are linked in a society before you could even move on to the other things wrong with the premise.

    • Vagenda and Pee-ara

      Carrie Gress obviously figured out that since Phyllis Schlafly kicked the bucket, America is crying out for advice from a judgemental, angry, self loathing, shrew.

      I always felt bad for Schlafly’s gay son, but then he grew up to be a Republican and an asshole.

      • sgt. jmk of the résistance

        Oh, I didn’t think Carrie’s tone was angry… I thought it was more sweetly smug and concern-troll-ey, making the shit she was spewing sound even worse than it was.

        • Vagenda and Pee-ara

          Schlafly was also a concern troll – “I’m just trying to help you to be happy, like I am, you gross, sad, women who want equal pay.”

          • sgt. jmk of the résistance

            Yep… every time I heard her on TV, expressing her oh-so-so-genuine concern for those poor mannish failed-women feminists who no man would ever want, I’d want to throw a shoe at the screen.

          • Vagenda and Pee-ara

            I LOATHED Schlafly, even as a kid.

    • “Not even wrong” is one of my favorite phrases, it so hits the target in relation to screeds like the exemplar today.

  • Vagenda and Pee-ara

    How many love songs have been written sbout nagging, self absorbed, angry men? Oh, right, maybe NOBODY likes to be around someone who is angry all the time. Carrie Gress is A idiot.

    • Anna in PDX

      Well since Carly Simon was mentioned, there’s “you’re so vain,” but I guess it’s not technically a “love song” so never mind / Emily Litella

      • Vagenda and Pee-ara

        Yeah, I thought about it after I wrote that, and realized there were a lot of songs about shitty men, but they aren’t really love songs. They’re more in the vain of “you sucked, so I left your dumb ass.”

        Did you know that “You’re So Vain” was written about David Geffen?

        • Skadi

          Well, there goes my $20.

        • Natalie Au Natural Hedonist

          She claimed in Her Book “Boys in the trees” it is a mash-up of many of the men she was dating, including Warren Beatty, Mick Jagger, and several others. https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/books/2015/11/19/carly-simon-boys-in-the-trees-memoir-youre-so-vain/75944910/

          • Vagenda and Pee-ara

            I heard her say not too long ago that it was about David Geffen, which surprised me, since I always thought it was about Beatty.

          • Natalie Au Natural Hedonist

            She “claims” verse 2 is about Beatty. There’s a great anecdote in her book about her going to her therapist all ragged out after a 2am visit from Warren Beatty. She tells her therapist about the great sex and he says,” I don’t know if I should tell you this but, You aren’t the first patient I’ve had today who had sex with Warren last night, or even the second.” She does say there were others who did not know they were the inspiration for the song.

    • LucindathePook

      It cost me a lot, but there’s one thing that I’ve got, It’s my man

      Cold and wet, tired, you bet, but all that I can forget, With my man

      He’s not much on looks, he’s no hero out of books. It’s my man

      Two or three girls has he that he likes as well as me, But I love him…
      and so on and on

    • Skaarphy

      “How many love songs have been written sbout nagging, self absorbed, angry men?”

      Diamonds And Rust might fit into that category.

      • James

        Jerry Reed’s “She Got the Goldmine, I Got the Shaft”?

      • Vagenda and Pee-ara

        Oh, there are plenty of songs out there about shitty men, but most of them aren’t love stories. Bad boys get old after a while.

        • cleos_mom

          Ditto Angry Young Men. Angry Old Man just doesn’t have the same cachet.

      • Opalescent Riddles

        That’s neat. Perhaps a “I love(d) you but, let’s be honest, can’t be with you” song?

  • Resistance Fighter Callyson

    all speak of loving a truthful, kind, loyal, soulful woman who brings
    them peace. There has been no love song dedicated to a nagging, angry,
    self-absorbed woman

    I must have missed where women didn’t desire a truthful, kind, loyal, soulful partner who brings
    them peace, or where a nagging, angry,
    self-absorbed one appealed to us.

    Do these people even realize how ridiculous they sound when they try to trash feminism, when they know absolutely nothing about it?

    Never mind, I know the answer to that one…

    http://www.quotehd.com/imagequotes/authors35/tmb/omar-samad-quote-for-gods-sake-these-people-have-no-clue-whatsoever.jpg

    • Opalescent Riddles

      Exactly. What the fuck logic dictates that “feminist” and “truthful, kind, loyal, soulful woman who brings them peace” are mutually exclusive?

  • Fancy Meau-Faux
    • Resistance Fighter Callyson

      It’s good to be Pope.

      Indeed…and I think I’ll binge-watch Scandal tonight. Thanks for the suggestion!

      https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c1/Olivia_Pope_-_ABC.jpg

      • So, ummm, is she, uh, the pope, in Scandal? And if she is, why have I so glibly walked away from religiousiosity-type thingies? P’raps not one of my best moves?

        • Resistance Fighter Callyson

          LOL, her character’s name is Olivia Pope. She’s a good person on balance, but not exactly a pope. And Scandal is definitely worth catching!

    • Msgr_MΩment

      You have to marry a dead?

    • II Gosala

      I dreamt I was Pope.
      Not the Pope; there is no singular Pope
      Anyone can be Pope.
      Who is a Pope?
      A Pope is one who is not dependent on any person or human institution
      He/she may consult other wise ones
      Or history
      Or philosophy
      But finally, in the ultimate independence of his/her soul
      In prayer or communion with whatever
      Arrives at a Conclusion of Truth.
      Truth is power.
      That power is shown by exorcising demons
      Or making a place for peace, love or justice
      I dreamed of such a power
      A demon I exorcised
      Not by the power of an institution or a tradition or an army of cardinals, bishops and priests
      But by my own insight
      Fairly won
      Of what is good and true and right
      A Pope is a free man or woman
      Knowing in himself/herself what is good and true and right
      Not in fear
      Not in obedience
      But in freedom
      And in freedom
      Every demon is defeated
      However beset he or she may be
      The struggle may be long
      But at last
      The doorway to the temple is cleared
      And the Pope enters in
      Seated in his/her holy temple
      He/she is infallible
      Invincible.
      A Pope is one who is finally free of fear and of lust.

      • Fancy Meau-Faux

        Nice!

    • Bitter Scribe

      I prefer the Subgenius version, which allows “deflowerings.”

    • The Flaming Carrot

      Fnord.

    • unionthuggery

      Hail Eris! After I excommunicated myself, I became an archbishop of the church of Eris esoteric.

  • DoILookAmused2u? Résistance☨

    I stopped reading at NAG.

    Nagging is not being a feminist. It’s not even being female or male. Nagging is about just being a downer or trying to get your way when its never going to happen because negative reinforcement doesn’t usually get the results you want, but it does get you avoided and shunned by people who know that being a nag is foolish.

    • Thiazin Red

      The issue is no one wants to be a nag. But if you ask nicely, make gentle reminders, and shit never gets done, you’re going to get frustrated and angry.

      • DoILookAmused2u? Résistance☨

        Things that work: positive reinforcement, incentives, doing it yourself.

        • Thiazin Red

          A husband isn’t a child or dog, they shouldn’t need cookie training.

          • DoILookAmused2u? Résistance☨

            Women, men, dogs, doesn’t matter. You want pushback, nag.

            Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results….

          • Thiazin Red

            If I see someone complain that their partner is nagging them about doing the dishes, my only response is to ask why the fuck they didn’t just do the dishes the first time.

          • DoILookAmused2u? Résistance☨

            I think dog obedience training (since you brought up dogs) could teach useful people skills to non furry people: you know what happens if you try to teach a dog a new command if you keep repeating the command over and over? You teach the dog to ignore you speaking that command.

          • cleos_mom

            Right. As often as not, ‘don’t nag’ is little more or less than politespeak for “just shut up and do all the work.”

          • MuttsRule

            Yes, but my husband finds a fresh-baked warm clafoutis very motivating.

        • Fancy Meau-Faux

          Don’t Shoot the Dog by Karen Pryor. Dog training in the general sense, but she also applies it to people, dolphins, chickens, cats. She notes at some point that anyone who wants a child should have to train a chicken first. The ONLY way to train a chicken is through positive reinforcement.

          She started out as a dolphin trainer. Another animal it’s hard to train by any means other than positive reinforcement in the form of fish snacks.

          • DoILookAmused2u? Résistance☨

            We really need to teach people animal training skills, I think, to teach them people skills. Wouldn’t that be great?

          • Quercus Queen

            Funny, people usually give me weird looks when I say training my dog was practice for having kids. Maybe it’s because I whistle for the kids the same way I do for the dog?

          • MuttsRule

            I too suspect that the move toward positive training of dogs (and away from Cesar Milan) has probably also helped kids and families.

          • cleos_mom

            Read just one of his books and kept thinking “why bother to get a dog? Surely there are job openings for prison guards.”

      • VirginiaWackelpudding

        Hence, Janie’s Got a Gun.

        • cleos_mom

          But she’s not a nag!! Thank God she dodged that bullet, huh?

    • The Flaming Carrot

      My mother has been nagging my father for 63 years, is not a feminist, and always votes Republican.

  • James

    Apparently the woman in question doesn’t know any actual feminists. My
    marriage is doing just fine (hey Sweetie, why are you hiding behind the
    bedroom door with a baseball bat wrapped in barb wire).

  • Angela Ruzzo

    Why are women held to standards that men are not held to? She says “it is toxic for real relationships when people are counting on wisdom, prudence, and loyalty.” Why is it the woman in the relationship who is expected to be wise, prudent and loyal? This should apply to both partners.

    There are no love songs dedicated to nagging, angry, self-absorbed women?? Well I got news for her – there are no love songs dedicated to nagging, angry, self-absorbed MEN either. But there are a lot of songs about men cheating on women, and there are frequent news articles about men abusing or killing their sweet, kind, thoughtful female partners.

    ALL marriages should involve TWO people who are kind, tender, affectionate, non-judgmental and compassionate, not just one person. After 60 years of observing married couples, the best marriages I have seen are the ones between lesbians.

    Women are just as complex as men, and all we want is to be ourselves and not have to constantly put other people’s needs first. Miller needs to listen to Billy Joel.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdxSmoxfl7A

    • Anna in PDX

      Yes! The main central problem here is that women somehow have more responsibility than men (“people” as she calls men, which makes women emotional laborer beasts of burden, I guess).

    • James

      I want my wife to be herself. I didn’t marry a female version of me, I married her. Neither of us gives a hoot what social scolds think our marriage “should” be.

      • Angela Ruzzo

        Good for you for not giving a hoot, because no matter what, there will always be someone who thinks they have the right to criticize or impose their own standards on others.

        There is so much variety in humankind – we don’t like the same music, the same food, the same cars, the same clothes, the same politics, the same religion – why should we all have to follow someone else’s idea of what makes a good marriage? It’s a ludicrous idea.

    • Skadi

      Heck, you can find women like that in country!

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyV94l4cQEo

  • Lyly Sirivong

    Always the same old arguments *yawns* Although I really don’t get what Kathy Griffin has to do with the topic.

    • Ω cynmac will never surrender

      It’s RWNJ logic. I’ll proof it for you.
      A) Kathy Griffin has a potty mouth
      B) so that makes her unlikeable
      C) “feminazi’s” are unlikeable.
      Hence, Kathy Griffin is a feminazi.
      See? Easy peasy.

  • orlaheho

    The Grateful Dead? Seriously? All I can think of is this one:

    I need a woman ’bout twice my age
    A lady of nobility, gentility and rage
    Splendor in the dark, lightning on the draw
    We’ll go right through the book and break each and every law.

    She sounds nice…

    • orlaheho

      Ooh ooh how bout this one:

      We know you’re the reincarnation
      Of the ravenous Catherine the Great
      And we know how you love your ovations
      For the Z rated scenes you create

      I admit the chick in scarlet begonias sound like a winner, but then this happens:

      I had to learn the hard way to let her pass by, let her pass by

      Hm I guess nice girls finish last oh well

    • Opalescent Riddles

      That reminds me of this one (by Cake):

      I want a girl who gets up early
      I want a girl who stays up late
      I want a girl with uninterrupted prosperity
      Who uses a machete, to cut through red tape
      With fingernails that shine like justice
      And a voice that is dark like tinted glass
      She is fast, thorough, and sharp as a tack
      She’s touring the facilities and picking up slack
      I want a girl with a short skirt and a long, long jacket

    • Opalescent Riddles

      When the Greatful Dead was mentioned, this is the one that snapped to mind:

      Let us put men and women together, see which one is smarter,
      Some say men, but I say no, women got the men like a puppet show.

      It ain’t me it’s the people that say, men are leading women astray,
      I say, it’s the women today, smarter than the men in every way,
      That’s right the women are smarter, the women are smarter that’s right.

      edit: not their original song, but they do a good rendition.

  • Latverian Diplomat

    Pontifex Maximus was a title used by the Roman Emperors
    Donald Trump fancies himself a great authoritarian leader
    Pontifex University is a fake university
    Trump University was a fake university
    Carrie Gress is a misogynist idiot
    Donald Trump’s picture is used for the dictionary definition of “misogynist idiot”

    I’m sensing a pattern here.

  • Komsumverweigerer Ron
    • Jesse

      I love the frantics! Canadia just does comedy better, idk why.

      • Komsumverweigerer Ron

        Perhaps because we generally aim it at ourselves?

  • Khavrinen

    “men write songs about ladies who are sweet, not feminists who NAG.”

    So it’s a good thing that, thanks to REAL feminism, women are able to write their own damn songs, about whatever matters to them.

  • darnyoudarnyoutoheck

    What music does this weirdo listen to anyway? I imagine even the Carpenters and Captain and Tenille had one or two songs about interesting “bad” women.

    • boredcatlady

      Chuck Mangione?

    • Ω cynmac will never surrender

      Debby and Pat Boone, before he tried to be “metal”.

  • boredcatlady

    oof. That’s so weird, because the other day I heard Rush talking to a DIFFERENT homeschool lady (or maybe the same one, I don’t know, never caught her name, but she did brag about her marriage a lot), and he pointed out that since men will do anything to get laid, it’s women’s jobs to make them behave for it. Since liberal women want whiny men, now men are whiny, so they can get laid? And now women are sad because there aren’t any Real Men (TM). I don’t know, it was confusing. But damn, why do liberal women have to ruin everything?

    • Ω cynmac will never surrender

      Whiny men? Ex-H#2 turned out to be a RWNJ and was the whiniest, most victim claiming person I have ever known. OMFG.

      • HooverVilles

        RWNJ: … something … projection … something … they doth protest too much … something…
        Sigh!

      • boredcatlady

        ..maybe if you’d been a little more Quiverfull-American-Girl-Doll and a little less actual human being, he wouldn’t have been so whiny? :)

    • mailman27

      So allllll the ladies are beating down the door to get to “real man” Rush? I’m so fucking sure.

      • Natalie Au Natural Hedonist

        Ramen. I wish he would fall off the cliff with votes, or something.

  • VirginiaWackelpudding

    The foreign queen in Memphis WAS gentle. Hmmmmmm

    • 3FingerPete

      I met a gin-soaked, bar-room queen in Memphis once.

      • VirginiaWackelpudding

        Did she try to take you outside for a flight?

        • Natalie Au Natural Hedonist

          I thought it was “for a ride?” Or is that my pervy mind at work?

          • VirginiaWackelpudding

            In the actual song it’s upstairs for a ride, but this is a warped version.

          • Natalie Au Natural Hedonist

            oh, I like warped.

        • Serai 1

          No, but she covered me in roses. That was nice.

  • Bitter Scribe

    Believing that it is your partner’s job to make you happy is destructive to any relationship, no matter which genders are involved.

    • Serai 1

      Making another happy should never be a job. It should be a privilege and a joy, otherwise there’s no point.

  • pussygrabber in chief

    “. . .all speak of loving a truthful, kind, loyal, soulful woman who brings them peace.” Like this woman?

    https://youtu.be/TkXQqYa0wrw

    • Ω cynmac will never surrender

      Hey, didn’t Bill Sykes beat her to death in Oliver!. I loved Mark Lester when I was a young’un also too.

      • pussygrabber in chief

        He did indeed. Guess she wasn’t truthful, kind, loyal, and soulful enough after all. (I had a little girl crush on Jack Wild who, I just learned from the google machine, died from cancer in 2006. Now I has a sad.)

        • Ω cynmac will never surrender

          Jack Wild had cancer in his jaw and they excised big parts of his lower face. Do not Google him.

          • John Thorstensen

            That happened with a close relative of mine, too. Didn’t work.

            On the plus side, he lived to be 90 and was fine up until his last year.

          • Serai 1

            It’s what happened to Roger Ebert, too.

          • The Flaming Carrot

            I’ve seen worse.

        • The Flaming Carrot

          That’s sad. I really liked him in H.R. Puffinstuff.

      • Serai 1

        He beat her to death in Oliver Twist, by Charles Dickens. You think the scene in the movie was bad? Holy shit, try reading the BOOK. It’s fucking soul-crushing. Dickens detailed the murder in heartbreaking words, gods, it was so horrible. And you know, thinking about it now, I realize that reading that scene when I was 11 was one of the prime motivators for me becoming a feminist later on – the idea that something like that could happen to a woman, with no recourse and no help from anyone around her.

  • Bitter Scribe

    Whenever I read something like this, I think of Betsy Hart, a former syndicated columnist and Fox News contributor. She had lots of kids, and her whole shtick was that she took care of her husband emotionally, he took care of the family financially, that was God’s plan and it was why she was by God happier than any feminist harpy.

    Then hubby met another woman and walked out.

    Boy, did Betsy ever change her tune. Suddenly she was writing about how men are disgusting pigs, judges who won’t enforce child support payments are useless, single mothers have it so tough and life is so unfair unfair unfair.

    Gee, kind of makes you think that utter financial dependence on another person isn’t always the best plan.

    • Ms.Moon

      I do a lot of reading and one issue that kept women in line during the past was that they had no agency. Women could not work for proper wages and when they married it went into the husband’s hands. I love that in contemporary culture marriage requires that both people make it what works for them. If making the choice to have whatever type of marriage works for you go for it I say. Options are wonderful it is the height of hubris to say what works for your marriage will work for someone else.

      • marshlc

        I can remember when married women could not have their own bank accounts, and while I’m kinda old, I’m not REALLY old.

        • cleos_mom

          As recently as the early 1960s, we couldn’t get credit in our own names.

      • Serai 1

        Stephen King wrote a whole book about what happens when a woman is trapped with a bad man and has no power – Dolores Claiborne. And it’s fucking GREAT.

        Sometimes, Dolores, a woman has to be a high-handed bitch to get ahead in this world. Sometimes being a bitch is all a woman has to hang onto.

        For a guy who claims to know nothing about women, he has a hell of a handle on how we have to live and how we deal with it.

  • Paperless Tiger

    What has that got to do with feminism? For example, Trump is a nagging bitch, but he’s no feminist.

  • Bitter Scribe

    The cartoon at the top of this post is weirdly intriguing. What’s supporting the guy being spanked? The woman is standing up, and fat (har har har) as she is, there couldn’t be any part of her body protruding enough for him to rest on. Is he balanced on a stool or something that’s hidden by her body? If so, it must be so near his crotch that just being on it would be punishment enough.

    • Blanche Beecham

      well obviously he has a stiffy

  • BrianW

    “There has been no love song dedicated to a nagging, angry, self-absorbed woman.”
    Maybe not, but there have been lots of poems, and many of them are beautiful. See for instance, anything W. B. Yeats wrote about Maud Gonne.

    • Skadi

      Why should I blame her that she filled my days
      With misery, or that she would of late
      Have taught to ignorant men most violent ways,
      Or hurled the little streets upon the great,
      Had they but courage equal to desire?
      What could have made her peaceful with a mind
      That nobleness made simple as a fire,
      With beauty like a tightened bow, a kind
      That is not natural in an age like this,
      Being high and solitary and most stern?
      Why, what could she have done, being what she is?
      Was there another Troy for her to burn?

      • BrianW

        BING BING BING! “No Second Troy” was exactly the one I was thinking of. That and “the Cloths of Heaven.”

        • Skadi

          I was thinking also of “A Prayer for My Daughter”, where Yeats wishes for his daughter to be just the sort of “sweet”,”loyal” peace-bringing angel describes, so that she won’t be like Maud…but does so in such a way as to reveal how much power the remembrance of Maud still has over him:

          Helen being chosen found life flat and dull
          And later had much trouble from a fool,
          While that great Queen, that rose out of the spray,
          Being fatherless could have her way
          Yet chose a bandy-leggèd smith for man.
          It’s certain that fine women eat
          A crazy salad with their meat
          Whereby the Horn of Plenty is undone…

          …An intellectual hatred is the worst,
          So let her think opinions are accursed.
          Have I not seen the loveliest woman born
          Out of the mouth of Plenty’s horn,
          Because of her opinionated mind
          Barter that horn and every good
          By quiet natures understood
          For an old bellows full of angry wind?…

          • BrianW

            I agree with you completely about “Prayer for my Daughter.” For some reason though, it’s not one of his favorites for me. Something about it feels uneven, and I don’t know how to put it other than that.

        • Serai 1

          But “the Cloths of Heaven” says nothing about the woman’s personality. It only talks about how willing he is to give everything for his love.

          • BrianW

            That’s correct, it doesn’t. It is generally considered though, that in the poem he is speaking to/about Gonne. To me, the two poems sort of form the bookends of their relationship. “Cloths” is published in 1899 and “Troy” in 1916. In “Cloths” the speaker is laying bare his dreams and vulnerabilities before his paramour (lover, as we know from Yeats’ life, is not correct for Gonne). Seventeen years (and many trampled dreams) later, his view of her is much more realistic; however, he still loves her.

            You’re right though, “Cloths” says nothing about the woman’s personality. I didn’t express myself clearly enough in the original post. Heck, I may not be clear enough now. :-
            BWW

          • Serai 1

            It’s one of my favorite poems, that one. So heartfelt, so courageous. I’d forgotten it was about Gonne. Well, you fall in love with a revolutionary hellion like that, things ain’t gonna be easy. Have you read Women of the Golden Dawn? She’s one of the muses the book is about. What a fascinating life she had. A true badass, she.

          • BrianW

            I have not read that,but may have to look it up. “Cloths” is also one of my favorite poems, because under my cynical exterior I’m actually a romantic. It’s the first poem I ever read to my wife, way back when before we were married.

  • Tired Brit

    “There has been no love song dedicated to a nagging, angry, self-absorbed woman.”

    Tom Lehrer – She’s My Girl

    In winter the bedroom is one large ice cube,
    And she squeezes the toothpaste from the middle of the tube.
    Her hairs in the sink
    Have driven me to drink,
    But she’s my girl, she’s my girl, she’s my girl,
    And I love her.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4p2iZTIDog

  • Nobody tell my husband that he’s unhappy with my feminist, primary breadwinning, fierce, strong, and sometimes willing to fight self, OK? It’s been 11 years and he hasn’t realized it yet, and in that time I’ve kind of gotten used to him.

    • John Thorstensen

      Your secret is safe with us! Mum’s the word!

  • The Flaming Carrot

    Carrie Gress is just Carrie Nation’s exhumed, reanimated corpse, ready to kill everyone’s fun all over again.

  • Blanche Beecham

    Meh. This kind of fiction (dick-lit, because it is written for the incel/redpill audience) is not “Eat, Pray, Love”.

    • Ω cynmac will never surrender

      I hate “Eat, Pray, Love”. My cousin gave me a copy and I made it disappear. Not on my wall o’books.

      • Natalie Au Natural Hedonist

        The title turned me off, so I’ve never bothered, and I read most everything.

  • And hey, why were female singers not consulted here? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_oSCgnamAY

  • Christopher Story

    Puritans: “If you’re not miserable, you’re not doing it right.”

    • cleos_mom

      That was the Victorians. Much of their POV was still in vogue during the 1940s and 1950s.

  • DirtyHippyLiberal

    So this Andrea chick apparently figured out if she stopped being a horrible person and actually cared about the person she married, things would be better? Huh…genius stuff there, lady. And what the fuck all does this have to do with feminism again? I’ve been a feminist most of my life and I learned pretty young to treat people decent…so…

  • Boko999

    Cat Stevens called for the execution of Salman Rushdie.
    Fuck Cat Stevens.

    • Lefty Wright

      I think he has mellowed a little since then, but I have not listened to his music since he made that statement. Sort of like getting severe food poisoning at your one time favorite restaurant. You never go back.

      • Penny Dreadful Says Cats

        He still hasn’t apologized.

        • Jackie Jones

          Thanks. Wasn’t sure. So sad – food poisoning at favorite restaurant is great analogy!

        • Opalescent Riddles

          Actually, I believe he did. Rather, he clarified.

          • Penny Dreadful Says Cats

            Did he? I don’t recall now. My mind is clouded by my respect for Salman Rushdie, who is funny and insanely smart and just really a cool guy. So put that in your peace train and smoke it, “Cat.”

    • SeeTrain65

      I know it’s an old Dennis Miller quote, but it is apt:

      “So much for that ‘Peace Train’ shit.”

    • John Thorstensen

      I never liked his music in the first place.

      There, I said it.

      • Jackie Jones

        Oh we all loved him in the 70s. Soundtrack to Harold and Maude! Tea for the Tillerman, etc. Then he lost his feminist roots and became an asshole. But I think he stopped advocating Rushdie stuff, not sure.

      • cleos_mom

        I liked his music but he went off the rails before his train reached even one whistle stop.

    • LadyLaz

      I love moon shadow.

    • Serai 1

      No, he did not. He never said anything like that. He only said that he looked up the verses in the Qu’ran that the mullah cited when proclaiming the fatwa, and saw that they backed up what the guy said. THAT’S ALL. The media blew it up into OMG CAT STEVENS WANTS TO KILL SALMAN RUSHDIE. It was bullshit hype to sell papers.

      • Boko999

        On 21 February 1989, Yusuf Islam addressed students at Kingston University
        in London about his conversion to Islam and was asked about the
        controversy in the Muslim world and the fatwa calling for Salman
        Rushdie’s execution. He replied, “He must be killed. The Qur’an makes it clear – if someone defames the prophet, then he must die.”
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_Stevens%27_comments_about_Salman_Rushdie

        He calls this typical English “dry humour.”
        Again, fuck Yusuf Islam.

  • MuttsRule

    This is pretty tame compared to Elizabeth Johnston, the fundagelical Christian Activist Mommy who homeskools 10 children. There’s an article on her in Patheos today. Besides being virulently anti-gay, she gives helpful advice on how to beat your kids (use the “right tools” so you don’t dislocate a hip by swatting a kid too hard, tempting when you’re hitting a kid in diapers(!), and don’t get caught), including this gem:

    “Insist that your children cry quietly. Strong, loud, uncontrolled crying is a manifestation of rebellion, and should not be tolerated. A spanked child should cry quietly and not excessively. Excessive screaming might also prompt a concerned neighbor to call the HRS on you.”

    • Ω cynmac will never surrender

      She sounds nice.

      • SeeTrain65

        She sounds sadistic.

        • Natalie Au Natural Hedonist

          oops i always forget to scroll down before posting.

    • Fucking sicko. Who hits a baby in diapers? Who hits anyone hard enough to dislocate a hip?

    • Natalie Au Natural Hedonist

      That sounds like a sadist to me.

      • SeeTrain65

        GMTA. ; )

        • Natalie Au Natural Hedonist

          That’s what my dear old dad used to say.

    • John Thorstensen

      Does this person have a known physical address and meat-space identity?

      Because if so, DCYS should be on her like flies on digestive waste products.

      • HooverVilles

        ^^^^THIS^^^^

      • The Flaming Carrot

        She’s in Dresden, Ohio. At least that’s where her husband’s “family medicine” practice is. (Does that mean he’s a pediatrician? Yikes.)

        • John Thorstensen

          “Yikes” indeed. Do you know if she has been reported to the authorities?

          • The Flaming Carrot

            Don’t know. I’m in Illinois. I’m not even sure who the authorities are in Ohio.

          • John Thorstensen
          • The Flaming Carrot

            And the hubby to http://med.ohio.gov/ForthePublic/FileaComplaint.aspx especially if he really did publish all that fraudulent shit about abortions being unnecessary in ectopic pregnancies. It’s sickening that no one even reacted to these crazy people until now, and only because of the Teen Vogue thing. I wonder how many people hit their kids with a stick because it was recommended by a pediatrician.

          • The Flaming Carrot

            Clearly something has happened. Every article that discusses James Patrick Johnson, D.O. (going back to the mid-2000s) links to all kinds of crazy things he supposedly wrote, and all of those blogs are “closed for maintenance.”

  • Skadi

    “…but the real secret is as old as poetry and song”

    ..Lesbia always speaks ill of me, never shuts up
    about me: damn me if she doesn’t love me.
    What’s the sign? Because it’s the same with me: I’m
    continually complaining, but damn me if I don’t love her…

    …In faith I do not love thee with mine eyes,
    For they in thee a thousand errors note;
    But ’tis my heart that loves what they despise,
    Who, in despite of view, is pleased to dote.
    Nor are mine ears with thy tongue’s tune delighted;
    Nor tender feeling, to base touches prone,
    Nor taste, nor smell, desire to be invited
    To any sensual feast with thee alone:
    But my five wits nor my five senses can
    Dissuade one foolish heart from serving thee,
    Who leaves unswayed the likeness of a man,
    Thy proud heart’s slave and vassal wretch to be:
    Only my plague thus far I count my gain,
    That she that makes me sin awards me pain…

    …One that is ever kind said yesterday:
    “Your well beloved’s hair has threads of grey,
    And little shadows come about her eyes;
    Time can but make it easier to be wise,
    Though now it’s hard, till trouble is at an end;
    And so be patient, be wise and patient, friend.”
    But heart, there is no comfort, not a grain;
    Time can but make her beauty over again,
    Because of that great nobleness of hers;
    The fire that stirs about her, when she stirs 1
    Burns but more clearly. O she had not these ways,
    When all the wild Summer was in her gaze.
    O heart! O heart! if she’d but turn her head,
    You’d know the folly of being comforted.

    …yeah, right, meek mild women who “bring peace” get all the poems, my sweet you-know-what.

    • LadyLaz

      cattulus? Lesbia was supposed to clodia.

  • Lefty Wright

    A little hypocritical of a Christian fundamentalist to be saying they need to be less judgemental. Being judgemental is sort of their thing.

    • Skadi

      Men are allowed to pass judgment. Women are supposed to nod and agree.

      • Lefty Wright

        That’s just a myth.

        • Skadi

          Well, yeah, exactly.

    • Jesse

      Christianists are possesive of their exclusive right to pass judgement.

    • HooverVilles

      SAD! but oh so true. Something, something glass houses something throwing rocks something, something.
      Sigh!

  • Zyxomma

    I heard on today’s TV news that millennials are more faithful in marriage than their parents. There are of course a number of articles about this, but here’s just one: http://madamenoire.com/827079/what-millennials-are-getting-right-about-marriage/

    • cleos_mom

      Give ’em a break. They haven’t had as much time as their elders.

  • PubOption

    What’s that about angry woman music? Linda, tell Richard what you think of him.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ydb_5djAM3o&list=PLtw4atJJ-mUKnkT1LiV6n6m5sRf_5BuoI

    • marshlc

      Video not available, dammit ,and I really wanted to hear it. I know nothing about their breakup, but man did they sound good together.

  • Jesse

    Shouldn’t Carrie be making her husband a sandwich instead of wasting time ‘writing stuff?’

    • old_redneck

      Someone needs to tell Carrie the reason women have smaller feet than men . . . so they can stand closer to the sink when washing dishes.

      • (((Aron)))

        Nice!

  • Daniel Hooper

    “Carrie does have a good point here — taking a picture of yourself holding the disembodied and bloody head of your husband could put some strain on your marriage (unless that is what he is into, sexually)”

    For when you want to take the idea of getting head literally, I guess…

    • (((Aron)))

      Hi-o!

  • natoslug

    I just made dinner for my hard-headed woman: Strawberries, Glenfiddich Age of Discovery 19 year old Scotch, aged in Madeira barrels, and for dessert, some Laphroig. She wants to know why I think anyone wants to drink something that smells like someone put a bonfire out by peeing on it (her view of Laphroig).

    • Jackie Jones

      Laphroig is like biting a tree. I love it. You are a dutiful hubby!

  • natoslug

    Guns ‘n Roses has a song that I think was about Carrie.

    • Natalie Au Natural Hedonist

      “I used to love her, but I had to kill her”?

      • (((Aron)))

        Describes every girlfriend I’ve ever had.

        *cough*

        • Natalie Au Natural Hedonist

          I loled very hard the first time I heard it. Not as hard as the first time I heard “Big Balls ” by AC/DC, I was driving to work and had to pull over, I was laughing so hard.

  • natoslug

    Hell, even Fear had a song for Carrie . . .
    https://youtu.be/e1ri9u51gmY

  • Manders

    Based on her muddled thinking, I’m gonna guess this PhD is BS.

    God, can you imagine what her thesis must have been like?

  • Courser_Resistance

    I’m a feminist and I love men. I grew up with two younger brothers and my dad taught me all kinds of science-y stuff. I spend tons of time with my SAR team, made up of mostly men. I love my women friends too and we laugh about the silliness of the men, but they’re our friends and team members. Anyone can be a bigoted asshole, but most try really hard not to be. Are all my male friends a bit chauvanist? Of course they can be, but it comes from the right place, they’re looking out for me like a sister. And it’s a good feeling when someone cares enough about you to be concerned. But I work and train alongside them all the time and we all know each other’s strong points and weaknesses, it’s no big deal.

    I have known a couple of women who treated their husbands in a disgraceful way, like telling them they smell or I don’t know any, of a number of little digs they get in, in front of guests. I was really offended the first time I saw it happen. I kept my mouth shut because the man was a close friend of Ex BF, but when we were alone together I vented about it. I would never, ever belittle anyone in front of guests, much less my husband. It’s disgraceful and embarrassing for those who witness it.

    • Natalie Au Natural Hedonist

      Same here, I have more guy friends than girl friends.

    • Belittling your partner in front of others is a terrible thing, and I would say a sure sign the relationship has trouble.

      • John Thorstensen

        Hoo boy, that’s for sure.

        Apparently marriage counsellors have figured out the perfect ‘tell’ for doomed marriages; when partners roll their eyes when the other one is speaking. Kinda like Anderson Cooper did with Kellyanne. It’s a sign of contempt.

        • That sounds On Target.

        • Penny Dreadful Says Cats

          It’s a relief to know that Anderson and Kellyanne may not last.

        • Serai 1

          Unless it isn’t. Some couples actually have a sense of humor about themselves and their mates.

      • The Flaming Carrot

        I agree. I get physically ill when my mother belittles my father. There’s no humor in it, only bitterness. A bit of good-natured ribbing can be fun, though.

        • Agreed. It’s a fine line, IMHO. I would never purposely say anything in public about a partner that would hurt them. I’ve been on the receiving end of too much belittling already.

      • thixotropic jerk
    • John Thorstensen

      “I’m a feminist and I love men.”

      “Unpossible!” — every MGTOW dude, ever.

      While I do not wish to be ableist, or cast aspersions on our differently-abled brethren, those guys are lame, lame, lame.

  • arundel

    From Joan Crawford’s enjoyably batshit 1971 memoir/advice book, My Way of Life:

    On marriage: “Such a pattern of living calls for the same kind of executive ability a man has to develop in his office. It’s not easy. It’s not easy at all to run a house – small, or, as in my case, large … give the children all the attention they should have, adjust to day-to-day crises, and be cool, collected, and captivating at six o’clock. Not only must the children and housekeeping be dealt with and finished, the wife should also emerge at this hour “finished” – in the sense that she has all her beauty treatments behind her and is groomed, fragrant, and looking ready for an evening with her favorite beau.”

    “If every woman could walk into her husband’s office and see how many beautiful women pass his desk every day it would give her something to think about.”

    “Many men like to share hobbies as long as their wives aren’t complete idiots and ask, ‘Why is that man running?'”

    “Everybody has strong ideas about marriage. And why not? It’s the most intriguing situation a woman has in this life.”

    “Sex is very beautiful, very personal, magnificent. But like all marvelous things she should come in a lovely wrapping. Have you ever opened a Christmas present that was wrapped with old brown paper and tied with string? […] Packaging is very important. How can any woman present herself in a careless package?”

    “There should always be a precious time together at the end of the working day. Turn off the phone, ignore the door, pour a glass of wine or fruit juice. Shed the world and learn about each other in your own romantic oasis.”

    Much, much more. I love her entertaining ideas- invite a mix of people, but NO HIPPIES, with their dirty feet! Here are brief and fun pages with highlights from the book, they’re a hoot.

    https://www.theodysseyonline.com/joan-crawford

    https://www.bustle.com/p/11-quotes-from-joan-crawfords-book-my-way-of-life-prove-the-legend-had-unique-advice-for-women-53052

    http://www.xojane.com/entertainment/joan-crawford-advice-book

    • Jackie Jones

      Big Joan fan. What a hoot! Have that book. I gav a copy of that as wedding present to friend. Heh heh.

    • cleos_mom

      Not only must the children and housekeeping be dealt with and finished,
      the wife should also emerge at this hour “finished” – in the sense that
      she has all her beauty treatments behind her and is groomed, fragrant,
      and looking ready for an evening with her favorite beau.”

      The classic perspective of someone who is busy, not because she has to be but because she wants to be. The life of no one in a livingfrompaychecktopaycheck household includes “beauty treatments.”

  • cicatricella

    hear hear. We should all practise mindfulness when pursuing our feminist castration agenda.

  • Phoenixdoglover

    Carrie is a “homeschooling mother of four, has a doctorate in philosophy from the Catholic University of America and is a faculty member at Pontifex University”

    Yeah, about this Pontifex University.

    On their home page:
    “Why Pontifex University? Our students come from different and diverse backgrounds learn more about they chose to study at Pontifex University.”

    Seems legit.

    • Opalescent Riddles

      I can’t even that quoted sentence.

  • Riley Whodat Venable

    Great article!

    I wish I could find clips of someone doing this traditional bluegrass song.

    “Whoever it was wrote home sweet home
    Never was a marked man
    He never had his loving wife
    Hit him with a frying pan”

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jfpAMkcL2ow

    And

    “If I’d of shot her when I met her
    I’d be out of jail by now”
    By Waylon Jennings

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ff_KprJTrA0

  • (((Aron)))

    I wasn’t aware Dante Alighieri was a famous crooner, you know like TIM MCGRAW.

    • LadyLaz

      Seriously, you know, what the fuck.

  • P’jama Pahnts

    I love it when my colleague bitches about the lunch that his wife packs for him. His wife that works full-time, just like him. You can imagine my typical response.

    • A friend of mine has two full time jobs. Her husband works part time. She is still doing all lunches cleaning etc and when she gets home from job two he has her out in the orchard or in the garage helping. Just…..yeah

      • LadyLaz

        I don’t get it. My first husband was a bit like that. And I said, wtf, and now we are divorced.

  • NastyBossetti

    I’ve had some songs written about me by a few different people. They weren’t about me being sweet and bringing anyone peace. They were about me being awesome, though.
    The implication that a woman – or any person, for that matter – can’t be strong and bold while also being loyal, truthful, and kind is absurd.

    • Lily412

      Yep, my first thought was “either/or fallacy”

  • Jackie Jones

    We need a word for women like this who are too stupid to understand what feminism is. Shlaflettes? Handmaid’s? I’m sure Sting’s wife could help them.

    • cleos_mom

      My term (considerably cleaned up for public consumption) is “pussyserf.”

      • LadyLaz

        Like it.

    • (((Aron)))

      Nappy headed hos.

    • Khavrinen

      I don’t know about the women who are like this, but it seems to me that the arguments they use — about the terrible “requirements” of feminism that actual feminists don’t really advocate — should be labeled “straw woman arguments”, since they’re strawman arguments aimed at women.

  • LadyLaz

    My trump-voting (sigh, I know) husband likes that I can kick ass. So there you go.

  • doktorzoom

    Some “Doctor of Philosphy.” I bet she doesn’t even have a poster of Rasputin, much less a beard down to her knees

  • Serai 1
  • Skadi

    Still adding to the “poetry about aggravating women” theme:

    The rolling wheel that runneth often round,
    The hardest steel in tract of time doth tear:
    And drizzling drops that often do redound,
    The firmest flint doth in continuance wear.
    Yet cannot I, with many a dropping tear,
    And long entreaty, soften her hard heart:
    That she will once vouchsafe my plaint to hear,
    Or look with pity on my painful smart.
    But when I plead, she bids me play my part,
    And when I weep, she says tears are but water:
    And when I sigh, she says I know the art,
    And when I wail she turns herself to laughter.
    So do I weep, and wail, and plead in vain,
    Whiles she as steel and flint doth still remain.

    (Note: the poet is describing the young lady he eventually married.)

  • Ergoetal

    So what exactly is wrong with acting boldly and then being the victim when things don’t go your way?

    — Donald T.

  • Ergoetal

    “If I am going to castrate anyone at all, I will do so thoughtfully, thank you very much.”

    God. You are SICK!

    When can we meet?

  • Edith Prickly

    Ho hum, another wingnut lady giving advice no one asked her for. Luckily, being a feminist means I can ignore her nonsense and not waste any time wondering where the hell she got the idea that being a feminist means being mean to people.

  • Kooolest G

    is this the sweet elvis song she’s talking about? (it’s not a cover of the cat stevens song)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPNiYrUT2f4

    the best lyric “I gotta woman, head like a rock, if she ever went nowhere I’d cry around the clock”

  • Kathleenddavis

    Google is paying 97$ per hour! Work for few hours and have longer with friends & family! !ae231d:
    On tuesday I got a great new Land Rover Range Rover from having earned $8752 this last four weeks.. Its the most-financialy rewarding I’ve had.. It sounds unbelievable but you wont forgive yourself if you don’t check it
    !ae231d:
    ➽➽
    ➽➽;➽➽ http://GoogleFinancialJobsCash511OfficeBrightPay$97Hour ★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★:::::!ae231l..,….

  • mardam422

    How do you get your wife/girlfriend to spank you with a cane? Asking for a friend.

  • Your parents have been married for 17,000 years? Good on ’em. What exactly are the anniversary gifts for the years north of, say, 75? Well, not all of them (Katie); maybe just hit the highlights–100, 250, 500, 1000, etc

    • La Cieca

      The proper gift for the 17,000th anniversary is “solar systems.”

  • eastcoastlib

    Woo, woo witchy woman !!!

  • Internet Hitler

    I didn’t think so at the time, but those Kathy Griffin photos are starting to seem pretty funny as time goes by. BTW, Kathy had to divorce her husband for stealing about $80000 from her. And right after she bought that expensive house for them. I’d be feisty too.

  • whitroth

    Um, does she ever *listen* to some of the songs those folks sing? One line from a Dead song strikes me, “I didn’t know that goodbye meant don’t let me go”.

    Now, there’s some nonfeminist mainstream thinking on *both* parties’ parts…. I think feminist, or actually, not stupid mainstream thinking, would be a conversation starting with “I don’t want to go….”

    But of *course* she doesn’t want to be doormats, they can’t Obey Their Owners, er, Husbands if they’re flat on the floor…

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