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The crack in February. Big, huh? (Image by NASA)

Scientists announced yesterday that an enormous chunk of the Larsen C ice shelf in Antarctica roughly the size of Delaware has broken off from the rest of the ice sheet, becoming one of the largest icebergs in recorded history. It’s over 2,200 square miles in area, weighs a trillion tons, and has a volume double that of Lake Erie, if you want some other “How Goddamn Big Is This” measures. One more comparison: it “consists of almost four times as much ice as the fast melting ice sheet of Greenland loses in a year,” according to the Washington Post.

We’re talking big. Like, probably too big for global warming-denying Senator Jim Inhofe to drag onto the Senate floor like he did with that snowball.

If this one berg, to be named “A68,” were to melt all at once (which it won’t, thank Boreas), it would raise the global sea level by almost 3 millimeters worldwide. As things stand, it won’t have any immediate effect since the ice shelf was already floating. And hey, while climate scientists virtually all agree that global warming is causing glaciers to melt and polar ice to thin, the usual cautious statements from scientists have led climate change deniers to proclaim that this iceberg is definitely unrelated to global warming, which is a hoax. That has to really frost the scientists at Project MIDAS, based at Swansea University and Aberystwyth University in Wales, which made the announcement Wednesday, where the “about” page says pretty damn clearly that MIDAS is about

investigating the effects of a warming climate on the Larsen C ice shelf in West Antarctica. Recent warming has caused large melt ponds to form on Larsen C during summer, which are changing the structure of the ice. The effects of this on the future of the ice shelf are still unknown.

Let’s see what those funtimes science deniers at PJ Media say in their story about this:

The PJ Media story links to, and selectively quotes from, an AP story about the announcement which doesn’t say scientists “admit” any such thing. As with most phenomena, it’s difficult to pin a particular event to a single cause, as the AP piece makes clear:

Scientists say global warming has caused a thinning of such shelves, but they differ on whether the latest event can be blamed on climate change.

That’s perfectly accurate, but it’s a far cry from scientists confessing that global warming is a hoax. But by golly, the folks at PJ Media try to spin it that way. Their version:

Swansea glaciologist Martin O’Leary emphasized that this was a natural event, not caused by man-made climate change. Even so, the event “puts the ice shelf in a very vulnerable position.”

The AP’s version puts O’Leary in dialogue with another scientist:

Eric Rignot, a glaciologist at the University of California, Irvine, said the breaking off of the iceberg “is part of a long-term major loss of the ice shelves in the peninsula, progressing southbound and resulting from climate warming.”

But Swansea University glaciologist Martin O’Leary, a member of the MIDAS project, called it “a natural event, and we’re not aware of any link to human-induced climate change.”

And a spokeswoman for the British Antarctic survey said there’s not enough information to say whether the calving is an effect of climate change, though there’s good evidence global warming has caused thinning of the ice shelf.

Obviously, “not enough information” means “It’s a hoax by socialists.” The New York Times and the Washington Post offer more nuanced discussions of what’s at work here. Yes, icebergs, sometimes huge ones, have always calved off the Antarctic sea ice shelves, which are fed by glaciers moving down the continent. But while scientists who study the Antarctic ice may disagree about whether this particular iceberg’s breakaway was hastened by climate change, not one of them says global warming isn’t happening.

MIDAS’s lead researcher, Swansea University glaciologist Adrian Luckman, wrote a fine piece Wednesday explaining why he believes any link between the calving of the Larsen C iceberg and climate change is “far from straightforward.” But Luckman also takes global warming as a given, noting that

In a warming world, ice shelves are of particular scientific interest because they are susceptible both to atmospheric warming from above and ocean warming from below.

So yes, even though this particular iceberg may only be indirectly related to global warming, none of the scientists studying it thinks global warming is no biggie. And while the iceberg itself won’t have any effect on sea level, the loss of all that mass from the Larsen C ice shelf could lead to the eventual breakup of the entire  shelf, much like the breakup of the Larsen A and Larsen B ice shelves in 1995 and 2002. It’s not yet clear how unstable the ice shelf may be, or whether if it is, a breakup would be years or decades away. But the collapse of the Larsen C ice shelf would have a slow-motion effect like a dam breaking — with less ice holding them back, Antarctic glaciers will move more quickly to the sea, dropping more ice in and contributing to sea level rise. And yes, even if that happens you’ll hear wingnuts insisting it’s impossible for humans to change the climate.

Even so, it’s important to put all this in perspective: It has no bearing on Hillary Clinton’s emails.

Yr Wonkette is supported by reader donations. Please click the “Donate” clicky! And to reduce your carbon footprint, look into greening up your own energy usage with a wind or solar energy plan from our partners at Arcadia Energy. Wonkette even gets a cut!

[WaPo / PJ Media / Bloomberg / NYT / Project MIDAS / The Conversation]

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  • Joe Beese
  • Latverian Diplomat

    It’s over 2,200 square miles in area, weighs a trillion tons, and has a volume double that of Lake Erie, if you want some other “How Goddamn Big Is This” measures.

    What’s that in Libraries of Congress, or stacks of dollar bills? :)

  • mailman27

    Delaware, represent!!

    • Latverian Diplomat

      FWIW, Republicans would give that iceberg two Senators before they’d give two to DC.

      • Snark Tank Full of Resistance

        Or worse, Puerto Rico.

  • BreakingDeadMen

    It’s not our fault if the poors never learnt to swim.

  • schmannity

    IceBERG? Time to blame the Jews.

    • amrak63

      You mean (((iceberg))), doncha? ;)

  • clubseal

    So, no thoughts on the fact that the birth of little ‘bergs is called “calving”?
    I love it, personally.

    • JustDon’tSaySortMyBalls

      That’s cuz they NEVER skip “leg day”.

  • BigCSouthside

    Let’s say global warming is a hoax. What would we lose by operating cleaner and greener anyway? I don’t get why they fight this so hard

  • Skwerl the Taco Hunter

    This proves that there was no collusion.

    • Latverian Diplomat

      There may be some South Sea collisions soon, however.

  • Joe Beese
    • mfp, all 6s&7s&9s

      yeah…just a ‘political stunt’….these mothafucka republicans should all, everyfuckingone of them, be indicted….fucking criminals–always party, never country

      • Zippy W Pinhead

        as opposed to Ryan calling for Hillary’s security clearance to be revoked-

        NO STUNT! NO STUNT! YOU’RE A STUNT!

      • Msgr_MΩment

        The GOP, or, after its initials in Spanish, RICO.

  • Latverian Diplomat

    “All that ice…and no vodka!”
    — John Boehner cries himself back to sleep

    • BJW

      Don’t worry. He’s still delighted he is NOT Speaker of the House and is grateful every minute of every day for that.

      • Latverian Diplomat

        He grifted his graft, and now he’s at rest.

  • Joe Beese

    Ordered by court to disclose his Russia contacts, Sessions releases blank sheet of paper

    https://thinkprogress.org/jeff-sessions-blank-sheet-of-paper-russia-contacts-9f9050877e96

    • Latverian Diplomat

      “It’s written in indivisible ink.”
      — Jeff Sessions

      • PubOption

        Under God?

    • Nockular cavity

      “It’s a picture o’ that iceberg! Ah thought you libruls would be happy!”

    • Latverian Diplomat

      “I don’t see what the big deals is. I didn’t only meet with White Russians.”
      — Jeff Sessions

      • Msgr_MΩment

        …over mayonnaise sammiches and milk.

        • Villago Delenda Est

          Mayonnaise sammiches on Wonder bread.

          • willi0000000

            what? . . . no white American cheese-like food product?

  • Royal Ugly Dude

    In the 90’s, it was a huge story when a Rhode Island-sized iceberg broke off of Antarctica. This one is Delaware-sized. How long until a chunk the size of New Jersey falls off? (Or are we skipping right to Pennsylvania?)

    • Latverian Diplomat

      “There will never be an iceberg as big as Texas. Yee-ha!”
      — John Cornryn

    • I won’t be really worried until we get a Chris Christie sized ice berg.

    • doktorzoom

      Wellllll… from the WaPo story:

      If you add together all the ice lost from the various Larsen ice shelves since the 1970s, it is around 7,350 square miles, according to figures provided by Rignot. That is a little bit smaller than the state of New Jersey.</blockquote

      • tomamitai

        I’ll bet it smells better than Jersey.

        • Persistent Demme

          Reminds me of this old Demme family favorite:
          (sung to the tune of “It’s Beginning to Look A Lot Like Christmas.”)

          It’s beginning to smell a lot like Jersey,
          Everywhere we go…

    • JustDon’tSaySortMyBalls

      It may have already happened. What I heard on NPR yesterday said this is like the 3rd or 4th largest break-off since they started serious satellite monitoring, and the US Navy supposedly spotted one bigger than all of them back in WWII.

    • Lambsendbeds

      California or GTFO !

  • Well, all of the old men making gobs of money peddling fossil fuels now will be dead before the shit really hits the fan and their kids will probably have enough money to build some nice vaults to live in for a few hundred years, so they don’t care

  • My house is about ten miles from the Atlantic Ocean as the crow flies. I figger in about about ten years it’ll be lovely beachfront property and I’ll be RICH!

    • proudgrampa

      Beyond your wildest dreams!

    • therblig

      we’re about 4-5 blocks from the Hudson. no need to buy a fishtank as they’ll be swimming in our basement.

    • tomamitai

      If you go here you can put in your address to see how various amounts of sea level rise will affect you.

      • According to that if the sea level rises six feet I’ll only be a block from the beautiful ocean. Surf’s up!

  • Joe Beese

    I await Greenwald’s tweet on the subject.

    I can’t wait to see what excuses useful idiots on the left are going to come up with not to use the word treason after we get proof of Kushners data team directing Russian fake news operations. Because that’s what’s coming. At that point we have the Presidents son in law and secretary of everything directing targeting of a cyber attack against America. Tell me how that’s not giving aid to the enemy.

    http://www.metafilter.com/168157/Theres-a-good-chance-I-may-have-committed-some-lighttreason#7093399

    • Joe Beese
    • tomamitai

      The Constitutional definition of treason?

    • Scooby

      Not only that but it looks as if the Russian lawyer got a payoff from Sessions.
      http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/07/12/doj-settled-massive-russian-fraud-case-involving-lawyer-who-met-with-trump-jr/

      • Zippy W Pinhead

        Yup, a pennies on the dollar settlement

        • ariel_gee_398

          And no admission of wrongdoing, with all their assets abroad now unencumbered.

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            Yup- it’s an insult to hand slaps

            Once again, imagine if Bamz, or a president Hillary, had done this?

      • Joe Beese

        Now I want to punch someone.

        • tomamitai

          That’s why Trump better not get in the way of legal weed, ’cause we’re all gonna need something to mellow us out for the next few years.

        • Lambsendbeds

          How about a wax dummy of Sessions?

          • Komsumverweigerer Ron

            Or the real one. Same-same.

    • Latverian Diplomat

      I believe that Greenwald is already making the argument that since we’re not at war with Russia, they are not “the enemy” and therefore, no treason.

      • Zippy W Pinhead

        I’m looking forward to the inevitable moment that GG finally twists himself into such an intractable logical knot defending this BS that he is unable to untie that knot at the end of the day and is stuck in permanent agony as we toss him in the ash heap with the rest of the Russia apologists

        • Latverian Diplomat

          A nice image, but will never happen, I think. Some people will never admit a mistake, and always find a way to portray themselves as right all along.

        • Carpe Vagenda

          Well, at some point Putin is going to decide to cut his losses. And then, we’ll find out who the no-longer-useful idiots are.

          • Joe Beese

            I don’t think Greenwald is taking marching orders from anyone. I think he’s lost somewhere in “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” territory.

      • doktorzoom

        Thing is, I think the term “treason” is overused as well. God knows it was over-used toward Obama, who committed treason by imposing insurance on people. I think the Trumps are a bunch of criminals, venal fraudsters, and ethics-free bastards. But I think a much stronger case can be made for election fraud than for treason, which is (and should be) a very high bar.

        That said, Greenwald’s a dick.

        • Latverian Diplomat

          Yes, definitely in high crimes and misdemeanors territory, which is really the point, Glenn.

          Also, by the same legalistic definition of treason, the Rosenbergs were not guilty of treason (they were convicted of espionage) but how many conservatives would be happy about that statement?

        • Skwerl the Taco Hunter

          I disagree, Unbrellagate and the Beer Summit were both treasonous rapes of America.

          • doktorzoom

            Don’t forget the Coffee Salute, which killed at least as many as the Bowling Green Massacre.

          • WotsAllThisThen

            Mustardgate. NEvar ferget!!!11

      • Villago Delenda Est

        Greenwald is making the mistake of confusing the narrow constitutional definition of “treason” with the broader colloquial use of the term.

        But seeing as he’s a traitor too, this is understandable.

  • shastakoala
  • Scooby

    Come on, I use more ice than that in my cocktails.

  • Spotts1701, Nothingburger Chef

    I think I saw this on an episode of SeaQuest 2032.

    • Doug Langley

      Also known as Voyage to the Bottom of the Ratings.

  • DON: Quit sniveling, loser.JUNIOR: I can't do time!D: You won't. I'll pardon you.J: What if you're impeached?D: Then Ivanka will do it. pic.twitter.com/fSKR7Jd3dF— Kleptocracy Now™ (@kleptocracynow) July 13, 2017

    • Zippy W Pinhead

      Don’t worry, Jared can fix this. He can fix anything

      But Jared is the one who stuck the knife in my back!

      Sorry Fredo, it’s just business

  • cheetojeebus

    Sean, struck by the sudden realization that all life will likely be extinguished on earth apart from Jellyfish and resilient bacteria due to human activity freezes momentarily before the thought is banished by imagining licking the salty warm ivory calf of Mary.
    https://devilduck.tumblr.com/image/162909412700

  • Elvis Causticfellow

    If global warming is real, how come there’s so much ice to break off?

    • Latverian Diplomat

      If global warming is real, why is my local library’s globe cool to the touch?

      • Alex Grey

        Don’t try to fool me! Only liberal elites go to socialist strongholds like “libraries,” and “public schools.”

    • shastakoala

      The icebergs are having giant babies.

      • Latverian Diplomat

        Republicans are relieved that they reproduce asexually.

  • Ωbjectifier

    So we’ve known this was going to break off for some months. I didn’t expect it in winter though.

    • Royal Ugly Dude

      Seasons are just a theory!

      • Komsumverweigerer Ron

        Leaves turn green, leaves turn red, you can’t explain it!

  • Panika MCD

    when will I find out why this makes me think, “thanks, Obama!”?

    • Spotts1701, Nothingburger Chef

      Well, it’s 5:30 on the East Coast…so probably within the next 30 minutes?

  • ariel_gee_398

    I’m sorry, is the WH now saying that he might have known about the meeting? And, while he’s denying knowing it was about dirt on Hillary, he is not denying that he might have known it was with a purported Russian government official? https://twitter.com/juliehdavis/status/885587401485291522

    • Claire

      Well, a few hours after the meeting was set up he was on camera saying that he was going to have all sorts of Hillary dirt in a few days, so maybe he’s working his way toward “Yes I knew but IOKIYAR.”

      • ariel_gee_398

        I mean, I’m sure he actually knew. But I assumed Don Jr. was the sacrificial lamb here, offered to insulate his father from the fallout.

        • Claire

          I totally believe that was the intention until the evidence to the contrary started piling up. Maybe they’re trying out a change in tactics.

      • Joe Beese

        Honestly, I don’t know why he even bothers lying about any of this – unless it’s to keep in practice.

        He could laughingly admit everything he’s been accused of and tell anyone who didn’t like it to suck his dick. And McCain would say it’s “concerning”.

        • JustDon’tSaySortMyBalls

          pathological. can’t help himself.

      • Skwerl the Taco Hunter

        Actually, that is wrong. It was within a few minutes after the meeting, which means he knew about it in advance and expected the dirt delivered right away.

  • Joe Beese

    To mark the occasion, Ryan, saying the “#NationalDayOfCivility offers an awesome reminder for us all to improve the tone of debate,” posted a video to Twitter showing Ryan delivering a guidance counselor-style lecture on the value of civil debate to a group of unfortunate Congressional staffers. Ryan pleads that we, as a fractured nation, should “improve our tone,” and “have a great debate on ideas” rather than “ad hominem attacks.” …

    Ryan can piss off. His plea for civility came shortly before he vowed to keep the House in session to pass a healthcare bill that, if enacted, will cut hundreds of billions of dollars in Medicaid spending and healthcare subsidies, and cause the cost of insurance plans that actually offer comprehensive coverage to skyrocket. Ryan has previously referred to the devastating effects of his party’s legislation as 22 million Americans “choos[ing]” not to be insured.

    So, to clarify: It is civil to spend your days trying to ensure that children born with expensive diseases reach their lifetime limits of how much health insurance companies will pay for their care before they speak their first words, and that poor people with cancer be forced to die in debt as well as in agony. But it is not civil to call Paul Ryan a piece of shit for those actions.

    As our colleague Hamilton wrote last month, civility “seems like a pressing matter when you already have everything else you require.” The only thing Ryan wants for today is a signed healthcare bill that will, as he’s dreamed of since college, make life impossibly horrible for sick poor people.

    Go fuck yourself.

    http://fusion.kinja.com/massive-knob-calls-for-civility-1796878357

  • bookish

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/dominicholden/jeff-sessions-speech-relgious-freedom?utm_term=.yf2xGboQKJ#.wtYPROd2g7
    US Attorney General Jeff Sessions delivered a speech on Tuesday night to a private,
    no-press-allowed gathering of Christian conservatives fighting to expand religious liberty, thereby giving the Trump administration’s tacit endorsement to a group that uses courts and legislatures to allow LGBT discrimination and restrict access to abortions.

    Sessions’s office had declined to release the speech, despite requests from BuzzFeed News and other media outlets, even though the attorney general made the remarks in his official capacity as head of the US Justice Department.

    But on Thursday, conservative media outlet The Federalist published the remarks as prepared under Sessions’s byline. The Alliance Defending Freedom, which held the Tuesday event, confirmed to BuzzFeed News that the published remarks were what Sessions said to the group. The Department of Justice and The Federalist did not immediately return request for comment.

    http://thefederalist.com/2017/07/13/heres-the-speech-jeff-sessions-delivered-to-christian-first-amendment-lawyers/#.WWfKfD7wHHo.twitter

    • cheetojeebus

      Sorry can’t read that, I’ve reached my rage threshold for the day.

      • Courser_Resistance

        Same here. I can only absorb so much bullshit in one day before brain starts to boil. And I have other shit to do, so fuck that.

    • TJ Barke

      Fuck these people with rusty garden implements votes.

    • Joe Beese

      It’s mostly Victim Card boilerplate. If there’s anything newsworthy here, it’s probably this.

      The president has also directed me to issue guidance on how to apply federal religious liberty protections. The department is finalizing this guidance, and I will soon issue it.

      The guidance will also help agencies follow the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. Congress enacted RFRA so that, if the federal government imposes a burden on somebody’s religious practice, it had better have a compelling reason. That is a demanding standard, and it’s the law of the land. We will follow it just as faithfully as we follow every other federal law. If we’re going to ensure that religious liberty is adequately protected and our country remains free, then we must ensure that RFRA is followed.

  • Joe Beese

    Marc Kasowitz, President Trump’s personal attorney on the Russia case, threatened a stranger in a string of profanity-laden emails Wednesday night.

    The man, a retired public relations professional in the western United States who asked not to be identified, read ProPublica’s story this week on Kasowitz and sent the lawyer an email with the subject line: “Resign Now.’’

    Kasowitz replied with series of angry messages sent between 9:30 p.m. and 10 p.m. Eastern time. One read: “I’m on you now. You are fucking with me now Let’s see who you are Watch your back , bitch.”

    In another email, Kasowitz wrote: “Call me. Don’t be afraid, you piece of shit. Stand up. If you don’t call, you’re just afraid.” And later: “I already know where you live, I’m on you. You might as well call me. You will see me. I promise. Bro.”

    Kasowitz’s spokesman, Michael Sitrick, said Thursday he couldn’t immediately reach Kasowitz for comment.

    https://www.propublica.org/article/marc-kasowitz-trump-lawyer-threat-emails-maddow

    • schmannity

      It’s just the liquor talking.

      • Joe Beese

        Agreed.

        Give that man a security clearance!

    • Nockular cavity

      Typical trash-talking poseur. Nobody in DC gives a shit how mobbed-up you are in Manhattan, bitch.

    • Doug Langley

      You know things are fucked up when spokesmen have spokesmen.

  • Latverian Diplomat

    “Ants don’t like the cold. The Arctic is cold. So, ‘Antarctica’ can’t possibly exist. Checkmate hoaxers!”
    — A Trumpkin Climatologist

    • BadKitty904

      If only you were joking…

  • BadKitty904
  • jaspersdad

    Deniers were ecstatic recently because Greenland had one record day of cold in July, this was proof that climate change is hoax.

    • BJW

      Never mind the melting of the permafrost.

    • Latverian Diplomat

      Liars love outliers.

  • DainBramage

    We need the Night’s King to come and save us from global warming.
    http://theawesomedaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/game-of-lulz-5-3.jpg

    • Latverian Diplomat

      “The dead have risen, and they’re voting Republican.”

  • jesterpunk

    If intelligent design is real how do you explain James Inhofe?

    • ariel_gee_398

      Factory seconds.

    • Not even intelligent designers are perfect every time. Sometimes a dud gets through the quality control department.

      • jesterpunk

        But dont they normally throw them back and use them for spare parts?

        • Komsumverweigerer Ron

          Only if there ARE useable parts.

    • BadKitty904

      Satan.

    • JustDon’tSaySortMyBalls

      That’s not Design’s fault. That’s Manufacturing.

      • Villago Delenda Est

        Oh, I’m going to go full Monty on this and blame marketing and/or sales.

        • Rags

          HR. Gotta be HR.

    • The Wanderer

      “Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger,
      filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades.
      Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the
      best God can do, I am not impressed. Results like these do not belong on
      the resumé of a Supreme Being. This is the kind of shit you’d expect
      from an office temp with a bad attitude. And just between you and me, in
      any decently-run universe, this guy would’ve been out on his
      all-powerful ass a long time ago. And by the way, I say “this guy”,
      because I firmly believe, looking at these results, that if there is a
      God, it has to be a man.
      No woman could or would ever fuck things up
      like this. So, if there is a God, I think most reasonable people might
      agree that he’s at least incompetent, and maybe, just maybe, doesn’t
      give a shit. Doesn’t give a shit, which I admire in a person, and which
      would explain a lot of these bad results.”


      George Carlin

    • WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot

      If intelligent design is correct and god is a republican (just ask a republican), then either the phrase is a misnomer (intelligent republican?) or he’s outsourcing the design work to Satan (who, I’ve heard, likes it hot).

  • TJ Barke

    The Chinese did it!

  • BadKitty904
    • Joe Beese

      That would be an improvement over the Grand Central experience today.

  • JustDon’tSaySortMyBalls

    raise the global sea level by almost 3 millimeters worldwide
    I don’t think so. It was a piece of ice floating in water. It displaces the same amount of water in solid as liquid phase.
    It IS a big-ass hazard to navigation, and it WILL be scraping the bottom of the sea.

    • JustDon’tSaySortMyBalls

      Did that number get calculated from equivalent glacier melt, like Greenland’s, maybe? Melting land ice would be a different story.

      • doktorzoom

        I believe so, as I thought I replied to you, but appear to have replied to someone else entirely. Time for a nap!

        • JustDon’tSaySortMyBalls

          LOL, I saw that, and tried to reply, but “can’t reply to a deleted comment”

  • Maybe there is some way we get convince some of the republicans to go to the berg and claim it as a new conservative homeland?

    • Latverian Diplomat

      Surely Saudi Arabia could use some fresh water. How about a round of VC funding for some tugboat rentals?

      • Rags

        This is a real thing.

        • Latverian Diplomat

          Yes, I think UAE is planning to go after one…but not on this scale of course.

    • Joe Beese

      Trump will call it “Iceland” and say he invented the name.

  • jaspersdad

    Climate change is a factor in many earth processes now.
    Here’s a useful analogy:

    We can’t tell which particular events a successful athlete on steroids would have won anyway without the steroids, but steroids increase the chance of victories.

    We can say that for the probability of a whole range of events, climate change loads the dice.

    • doktorzoom

      I think the calculation was based on adding that volume of meltwater all at once from dry land… but I could be wrong.

      • John Thorstensen

        I believe you’re right. This particular iceberg is already floating, so the moronic argument pushed by Rush Limbaugh actually does apply. But it sure doesn’t apply to all that ice on the land behind it.

        • Rags

          Also too, much of this shelf once was a glacier so it already made t’s contribution to sea level rise. And that is not a good thing.

  • therblig

    (((iceberg)))?

    • Jennifer R

      The meteor came from within the atmosphere?

    • Bobathonic

      ISWYDT

    • Msgr_MΩment

      Of the Massapequa Icebergs?

  • bookish

    http://newsok.com/article/5556162?google_editors_picks=true

    WASHINGTON (AP) — The chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee says he’s sending a letter to Donald Trump Jr. to ask him to testify.

    Sen. Chuck Grassley says he’d subpoena the president’s eldest son if necessary. The Iowa Republican says he wants Trump Jr. to appear “pretty soon,” and it could be as early as next week.

    • Msgr_MΩment

      OT: I want whoever it is that plays Jonah Ryan on Veep to play DJTJ in the film version of this clusterfuck.

  • Villago Delenda Est

    PJ Media: Wingtard fucknuts who should all be processed onto ice floes in the Arctic to provide protein snacks for polar bears.

    • Daniel Hooper

      Hey now; that’s terrible! It’d mostly pure fat those polar bears would be eating!

      • Lambsendbeds

        Polar bears need all that fat to burn for calories to keep them warm. Those wingnuts would be better than seal blubber!

        • kareemachan

          True. I’ve seen polar bears eat seals, and they basically strip off the fat layer and unless they’re REALLY hungry, may not finish the rest of it..

          And this, friends, is why Ursus maritimus tastes like fish. Seals eat fish, their fat tastes like fish, bears eat seal fat therefore bears taste like fish.

          Muktuk, on the other hand, is mighty tasty.

    • Latverian Diplomat

      To “borrow” a template from Last Week Tonight

      PJ Media
      How is this, still a thing?

      I really had no idea they were still around.

    • Doug Langley
      • SeeTrain65

        Again, doing this from memory …

        “I encountered a cannibal tribe who were amazed when ‘Big Silver Bird come from sky!’ … Isn’t that an interesting way to describe an airplane, ‘Big Silver Bird?’ … I asked the chief what it was like and he said, ‘It’s a lot like lobster; You can’t eat the shell, but the meat’s … gorgeous.'” – Benny Hill

      • Rags

        Just one small problem….

  • Canis Greyhame

    This could be the perfect GOP-style solution for trouble spots in the Republican healthcare bill. Why, there’s enough room on that ‘berg for every grandma in America!

    • Jukesgrrl

      “Opioid addiction? To the iceberg with you.”

  • jaspersdad

    Here’s an example of the bullshit that climate scientists have to deal with that they shouldn’t have to.

    https://skepticalscience.com/80_graphs_climate_myths.html

  • whitroth

    We need to investigate this iceberg, because that’s where Hillary stashed the 33million deleted emailz!!!

    • Lambsendbeds

      Quick – all the Trump administration – to the iceberg with your blowtorches!

      • Maybe if they try fracking on the floe, they can find some natural gas as well.

        • Doug Langley

          Drill, baby, drill!

          • Dudleydidwrong

            “Hey! There’s water down here!”

    • Persistent Demme

      Maybe her speeches are there, too!!!

  • Komsumverweigerer Ron

    Visiting Antarctica is on my bucket list. The idea of a place where it never gets hot, or even particularly warm, has great appeal to me.

    I’d better hurry.

    • Latverian Diplomat

      Might I interest you in…Mars!
      — Elon Musk

      Full disclosure, Mars can reach about 70°F, 20C in summer noon at the equator, but most of it never gets that warm.

      • Komsumverweigerer Ron

        So, shorts, sandals, and air pack?

        • WotsAllThisThen

          Pressurized shorts, the air is very thin.

        • Latverian Diplomat

          Well, even there and then, night time temps plunges, so pack a good warm sleeping bag…

    • The Wanderer

      Just wait a bit, and you can see the palm trees on the Palmer Peninsula.

    • Jeff Ackerman

      I worked at Mcmurdo Station last winter. There is a need for people to support National Science Foundation projects starting in August of each year. The work is seasonal, usually 6 months. Check out PAE contractors or the NSF website.

      • Komsumverweigerer Ron

        TYK!

    • grindstone

      We, my friend, are entirely incompatible. If I’m never cold again, that would be fine.

  • jaspersdad

    With the dozens, if not hundreds, of denier alternative theories for AGW, They only argue with people posting material based on scientific research. Never about their conflicting theories.

    It’s a fringe view, based on no evidence. They appear to be just another group of conspiracy theorists.

    These folk are only sceptical of things from actual scientific sources, never from stuff produced by fringe eccentrics, who they believe no matter how confused and contradictory that material might be.

    • Latverian Diplomat

      “If it confirms my pre-existing beliefs, there must be something to it!”

    • Rags

      Just like creationists lose their shit if you ask them to compare and contrast their ‘ belief’ to another one like,say, ken ham’s.

  • Robbertjan Brandenburg

    If you wonder why Macron invited Trump, it’s because he’s a good politician that knows an invite to Paris could change Trump’s opinion on the Paris accord. This my friends is politics.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/13/emmanuel-macron-says-obvious-indispensable-have-exchanges-donald/

    • Komsumverweigerer Ron

      Which is wise and clever, but doesn’t guarantee that Donnie’s tiny mind won’t change back after someone else talks at him.

      • WotsAllThisThen

        True, after Trump saw Kellyanne’s flash cards on TV he said, “Well now I’m convinced I didn’t collude with Russia after all.”

      • kareemachan

        Exactamundo.

    • jaspersdad

      This was an event planned long before either of them was elected, to commemorate the anniversary of America joining WW1. If something beneficial happens on the Paris Accord that’s a bonus.

      • Robbertjan Brandenburg

        France could have cancelled.

        • jaspersdad

          Personally, I want to see trump in front of a microphone all the time. The man’s an embarrassment and the more exposure that gets is fine by me.

          • Jukesgrrl

            Yes, but still très embarrassing.

          • kareemachan

            I had NO idea that France was an old and valued ally. Silly me.

      • Three Finger Salute

        Guy attends an event to commemorate the 100-year anniversary of America joining WW1, just as he’s about to kickstart America starting WW3. I think there was a second WW in there somewhere that America obviously didn’t learn from…

    • Joe Beese

      If I could save the planet by letting Trump paw my wife for a minute, I’d ask her to take one for the team.

      • kaydenpat

        And then she would be Mrs. Trump No. 4. Good going!!

        • I’d still be OK if Trump actually then did something to save the planet.

        • PubOption

          Mme Macron is outside Donnie’s age limits.

    • kaydenpat

      Perhaps it will change Trump’s mind. Who knows? I can’t see him getting anything done with this Republican Congress though so we’ll have to see.

  • Msgr_MΩment

    One more comparison: it “consists of almost four times as much ice as the fast melting ice sheet of Greenland loses in a year,” according to the Washington Post.

    Gonna need a shitload more gin and vermouth.

  • Beanz&Berryz

    I think Dok and others are saying things correctly. An ice shelf is floating ice, so it floating away and melting won’t raise sea levels. But, the numbers point out how big-assed a piece of ice this is.

    Plus also too, ice shelves border land-based glaciers, and kinda hold the glaciers back from sliding into the ocean so fast. Loss of a big chunk of ice shelf means that nearby land-based glaciers are free to slide into the sea. Those can raise sea levels.

    And, as canaries go, a 2200 sq. mile chunk of ice is a big fat canary.

    • BeachBum

      Ice takes up more space than water but don’t wait for me to do the math.

      • Latverian Diplomat

        But ice displaces water equal to it’s mass, so when it melts, it only take up the space of the water it displaced. That why full glasses of ice water don’t overflow as the ice melts.

      • Beanz&Berryz

        Floating ice displaces water according to the weight of the ice. Some floating ice sticks out of the water, but the water level is unchanged as the ice melts. Easy math.

        • Latverian Diplomat

          Oops I said mass where you said weight. You are correct.

          • Beanz&Berryz

            But. Here’s cool geeky detail from a glacier scientist friend talking about use of radar the measure how deep some ice things are, like ones that are thousands of meters deep. Speed of light (radar) is kinda easy to “feel” when you realize it’s about 300 meters per microsecond. Dick jokes and science fun!!

          • Trip Space-Parasite

            Or, one foot per nanosecond.

          • Beanz&Berryz

            But imma oldz. GHz hardly themselves existed in my formative years, so my feel for nSes is weak.

          • Trip Space-Parasite

            Any feel for nanoseconds at all is doing better than most people!

          • Beanz&Berryz

            In Wonk terms it’s about eleventy million times faster than .01 second

          • bobbert

            Oops

          • Trip Space-Parasite

            It’s a case of either “great minds think alike” or “fools rarely differ”!

          • bobbert

            Foot per nanosecond

    • jaspersdad

      I think the question is what has ocean and land warming done to cause this event .

    • kareemachan

      How about considering the fact that a lot of this berg is above sea level at the moment cuz ice floats. Push it down *into* the water and the water level rises. And yes, 3 mm ain’t much. We’re lucky there.

      BTW, that’s not how glaciers work.

      • Beanz&Berryz

        How much of this berg is above sea level? Proportionally more than other ice? How is this ice special? And, what’s the correct way that land-based glaciers feeding to ice shelves work?

    • Cranky Man

      Ice reflects, water absorbs sunlight. Positive feedback.

  • WotsAllThisThen

    I’m sure watts up with that will report this as, “Antarctic sea ice jumps to record levels!”

  • mancityRed6

    I dunno if I can trust just about anyone from Swansea.

  • Aunt PithyPat

    I just wish for ONCE someone would say “climate change may not have directly caused (incident X) but it is a FACT and as it progresses, more such incidents WILL occur.”

    Fewer weasel words, scienticians!!!! I know you are all cautious and hedge-y and like that, but we’ve gotta be just a leetle tiny bit bolder sometimes. To, you know, save all life on Earth!

    Cripes. I need a pill.

    • Hardly Ideal

      One guy on the vaccine episode of Last Week Tonight put it pretty well, saying that Science and English aren’t even really the same language. “…when a scientist says “we have no evidence that there’s a link between vaccines and autism,” what they’re really saying is we’re as positive as someone can humanly be that there’s no link.”

      “One thing I do when I’m talking to parents is say I’m as confident that there’s no link that as I am that if I was going to walk off this building that I would not be able to fly.”

      • Latverian Diplomat

        There may be a role for “science communicators” like BIll Nye here, as they can translate to English without the professionally mandated phraseology about cause, evidence, frequency, etc. (which is perfectly appropriate, even necessary in professional science communication) without harming their credibility or reputation with peers.

        • Iam Reading

          Or lazy uneducated Americans could gain some scientific literacy

      • kareemachan

        O/T: And once again I feel the need to pass on the information I got from our local SPED coordinator. She keeps up to date on research on such topics as autism. Seems like the autism rate in unvaccinated children is higher than that of vaccinated kids.

        So, not only is there the possibility of an anti-vaxxer’s kid being sterile from contracting mumps later on in life but also being autistic.

    • Jon Sussex

      It’s covered under Obamacare. For now.

    • Iam Reading

      You don’t understand the scientific method, how peer review works, or how to communicate scientific findings accurately. This isn’t CSI. Scientific experiments and results don’t rectify themselves in 45 minutes.

      There’s no possible way to save all life on Earth. In case you hadn’t noticed we are in the midst of the sixth mass extinction this planet has seen. It may very well end up being the worst.

  • Latverian Diplomat

    The important question, that I think we are all asking, is “Is this a sign of the End Times?”
    The Rapture Index has not yet been updated, I think. Their last climate entry was this:

    Climate change scientists launch geoengineering experiment that may accidentally cause global famine

    Climate change “mad scientists” from Harvard have been given the green light to pursue a geoengineering experiment that will expel aerosols into the atmosphere to block out the sun in a deranged effort to halt so-called “global warming.”

    • Jeffery Campbell

      The sign of the end times, is that ad for My Little Pony Fleshlights!!!!!!! EEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!

    • kareemachan

      Damnation, I wish they’d make up their minds. Expelling aerosols into the atmosphere causing famine sounds suspiciously like, oh, I dunno, CLIMATE CHANGE. And in the next breath, they say that none of this is caused by man.

      Jeebus.

  • aureolaborealis

    It’s over 2,200 square miles in area, weighs a trillion tons …

    To put this in more accessible human-scale terms, a trillion tons weighs the same as 1.25 quadrillion My Little Pony Fleshlights.

    You’re welcome.

    http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/my-little-pony-fleshlight-1024×786.jpg

    • Dudleydidwrong

      Is that before use, or after use? Asking for a friend….

    • kareemachan

      Interesting but WTF?

  • bookish

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/07/13/climate/climate-change-make-a-difference-quiz.html?mtrref=t.co&utm_source=nl-politics-daily-071317

    Fixing air-conditioning is, let’s face it, not the most exciting solution to climate change.

    Perhaps for the same reason that remodeling a kitchen is more enticing than replacing a water heater, devising greener refrigerant chemicals will never make headlines like solar installations or electric cars do. You just can’t take a great selfie with the inside of an air-conditioner.

    But fixing how we cool ourselves may also help fix the climate. New research from the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory in California indicates that adding improved efficiency in refrigeration and phasing out fluorinated gases used for cooling, as mandated by international agreement, could eliminate a full degree Celsius of warming by 2100. Given that the “business as usual” trajectory leads to 4 to 5 degrees Celsius of warming, that is shaving off a pretty big slice.

    • Latverian Diplomat

      Yes, we need to do all the things.

    • Jukesgrrl

      We had an interesting related news story on local TV recently. It’s been over 100F every day for weeks now (highs up to 116) where I live in Southern AZ. Far worse than normal summer temps. Not only is it virtually impossible to get an A/C repair appointment if you have problems … the news reader also said it’s the same with refrigerator repair companies. People don’t think much about it, but a refrigerator works twice as hard when it’s hot where it’s located (and no doubt we’re over-working our ice-makers, too). So fridges are dropping like flies here in Pima Co., no doubt also Phoenix, Las Vegas, and the California desert. If you need an illustration of how hot it is, the cacti in my yard, and throughout my desert-landscaped community, are dying. Verdict from the plant experts: It’s too hot. FOR CACTI !

      • Iam Reading

        I left Phoenix 17 years ago for Boise. Summer in Boise now feels like summer in Phoenix about 30 years ago. Fuck…

    • Dudleydidwrong

      Our electric utility recently installed a “smart” thermostat in our home that we can control from anywhere via the Internet but which the utility can control when there is concern about high power usage. Today was the first time the utility took over control of my air conditioning, an interesting experience. The temps in our home went up three degrees as the fan continued to run but the compressor was shut down for specified periods. As of this evening we’re back in control of our HVAC system.

      I can imagine that some time in the future this type of system might be mandatory, but that system might be one of the things that the denier crew fears–loss of control of their environment in order to keep electricity flowing to everyone and not have to build more generating capacity than necessitated by population growth. I consider this sensible; they may consider it communism.

      • kareemachan

        You know what I saw when I read your comment?

        Hacking. The possibility of hacking. Now THERE would be an effective “shiny thing over there” tactic if you wanted to do something not so nice…

  • GHERKINS OF RESTIVENESS!

    Yes, there’s no reason to curb dumping carbon into our atmosphere. It’s not like there’s any examples of neigboring planets with a greenhouse gas problems!

    Ok, fine, Venus. Whatever. Sure, it gets up to 600 degrees on the surface. But look, mankind’s carbon emissions didn’t cause Venus, or anything, so QED, libtard treehuggers! IT’S JUST NATURE

    • Vagenda and Pee-ara

      It’s not like any of us are going to even be alive when the shit hits the fan, so what’s the big whoop?

      • GHERKINS OF RESTIVENESS!

        Yeah! We’re all mortal anyway, and besides, the sun’s gonna eventually blow up one day too, so why even have laws and shit!?

        IT’S JUST NATURE

  • aureolaborealis

    I had a stable isotope professor who got his degree from Swansea University. He had the cutest-ever, vaguely Welsh, way of pronouncing VSMOW.

  • Lyly Sirivong

    Oh so to you, it’s the size of Delaware. For us, it’s six times the size of Paris.

    • Latverian Diplomat

      Metric units strike again.

    • wait! what?

      How many “Wales” is that?

  • Mavenmaven

    Don’t worry, Trump will have Jared handle the icebergs (Iceberg, Goldberg, what’s the difference).

    • kaydenpat

      Just like he’s handled peace talks in the Middle East, huh?

  • Cat Cafe for the Prosecution

    What I can’t figure out is, what’s in it for them to deny truth, science, and reality? What do they gain?

    • Rags

      Campaign contributions for the pols, profits for the Koch boys and their bff’s in the fossil fuel business.

      • NotDarkYet

        Agreed. Still, one has to wonder: are they planning to use that money to build dikes, to stand on it, to pay for swimming lessons?

        There’s only so much higher ground, and all those rich people competing for their dry spots is gonna make the run on Sunday-after-church-all-you-can-eat-buffets look like a slow motion turtle competition.

        Think Black Fridays, Walmart–except now with added incentives, like hungry crocs nipping at your heels or the last two remaining tigers going for your jugular while in the background Mt. Vesuvius erupts and fracking-triggered earthquakes shake the ground.

        • Nicholas

          It’s the death bet. Most of them are betting they’ll die, fat and happy, before the consequences of their actions come to rest.

        • kareemachan

          Some are moving to NZ. Lotsa high places there…

    • Pierre_de_Fermat

      Nothing. It’s tribal now. How it became that way is something to examine. But these folks are lost.

    • Dudleydidwrong

      Part of it is tribal: the herd instinct is strong even to the point where the bison herd plunges off the cliff. But I think that part of it is fear that they will have to change in ways that make the dreaded libruls look like they’re right, and in ways that will somehow hurt their little worlds, even if their world is living in Mom’s basement.

  • Spurning Beer

    There’s got to be a more adequate term than “wingnuts” for the climate-denying patriarchal racists. It’s just too mild.

    • Jonny On Maui

      Antiearthists. They hate. Period. Everyone and everything.

    • JoeChristmas

      Well, they did want to be called teabaggers.

  • tehbaddr

    3 millimeters, that’s what we used to call barely slush in upstate NY!

  • kaydenpat

    Wingnut Creationist: ” Well, the world is going to end soon anyways so suck it, Libtards!”

    • NotDarkYet

      Are your affairs in order when you get raptured to heaven? Are your pets in good hands?

      http://aftertherapturepetcare.com/

      • kaydenpat

        Initially I thought that was a parody site but sadly it’s not. Yikes!! What a scam.

        • Cat Cafe for the Prosecution

          I know, these rubes are SO easily fleeced we really should come up with a way to get a piece of that sweet, sweet idiot money. They’ll believe ANY fucking thing.

          • Smibo

            You know, I think you may be on to something here!

            These are the people who approach partisan politics in exactly the same way they internalize their sportsball team loyalty; it’s part of their identity, it’s what makes them who they are. Their need to call us “snowflakes” and “libtards” springs from the same well as their need to insist that their regional sportsball team is vastly superior to our regional sportsball team, last season’s stats or any other contrary information notwithstanding.

            If any group of people was ripe for exploitation, it’s them. Alas though; I fear Fock Snooze, AM talk radio and the Republican party have already sucked the air out of that room…

      • kareemachan

        DAMNIT, I THOUGHT OF THAT A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO!!! I’M GONNA SUE!!!!11!!

      • cleos_mom

        If your pets can’t go, give it a pass. There’s something hinky about it.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyXZpN1dHjU

    • wait! what?

      Have you considered retiring to Panama?

  • DesertedPictures

    Earth is getting hotter: But not because of Climate Change!

    • cleos_mom

      So what’s the cause? Pent-up horniness for another planet?

  • Paperless Tiger

    Now with thinner ice, coming to a shore near you!

  • DesertedPictures

    They say the earth is getting warmer: well then explain to me where all this ice in the sea is coming from ín the summer. Seems more like global cooling to me!

    (If you think stupid enough you can use any piece of negative news into a confirmation of your crazy idea: remember; it’s not about proving things. It’s about sowing doubt in the mind of the people)

    • Ducksworthy

      Disinformat: baffle the gullible with bullshit, or as Lenin should have mentioned if he didn’t, if you control the media you control the country.

    • Cat Cafe for the Prosecution

      YEAH! If it’s so warm, then how come there’s ICE? That’s all I got. My brain hurts.

  • Lefty Wright

    You call that a crack? You should have seen the one the plumber that fixed my dishwasher had. When he bent over, it was just amazing. And not in a good sort of way.

    • Hey! What are you looking at his ass for? He has the right to be fashionable if he wants to. All the kids are showing off their asses nowadays.

      Whoever thought six inches of sweaty cotton boxers or three inches of butt crack was attractive, didn’t ask me. I would rather not be familiar with the intimate curvature of people’s posteriors. Somethings should be left to the imagination.

      • CharliDenae

        Right?!? If guys are gonna’ walk around with their pants down below their cheeks, why bother with the pants, at all? On that note, maybe Lefty’s plumber can get a job at the vegan cafe showing off his butthole? LOL!!!

        • They have some modesty. They don’t like you to see their wee wee-wees when they ain’t bonered.

      • kareemachan

        I saw one young man’s pants actually fall down while sporting that stupid look. LMAO.

  • NotALiar

    I understand why Giant Oil and Republicans pretend that science is #fakenews. Money. They do it for money. What makes me crack up are the buttholes in comment sections and on twitter who are just straight fucking certain it’s not real. They would bet every dollar they have that its not real or that “of course the climate changes! It changes every season aaa hur dur derp!” What do they get out of their ignorance? Definitely not money! They will be spending so much more money soon when things start becoming more severe!

    • BoatOfVelociraptors

      Tribalism is a bitch.

    • Three Finger Salute

      Half of them are the kind of people who used to beat up the science nerds in school and are still taking pleasure at beating up on them again. Except instead of punching them or stepping on their glasses, they’re “hurting” them even worse: by making sure that none of their nerdy, f*ggy science stuff gets taken seriously, and that the “tough guys” still get to roll coal, poach animals, and chop down forests. See Alternet article for further explanation.

      The other half are pseudoscientific racial eugenicists who believe that environmentalism is a thinly disguised commie plot to punish “white nations” for being captains of industry at the expense of the third world. They think the U.N. is trying to make everyone live like the “savage races” in mud huts and teepees to “save the planet,” while a small fraction of the “elites” — liberal politicians and celebrities — get to continue having their gigantic mansions and private aircraft, and eventually have robot butlers and sex dolls and the like.

      For this latter group, whether or not global warming is real is irrelevant. If it isn’t, no biggie, carry on as usual; keep calm and plunder on. But if it is, all the better — because the ones who will suffer the most are the “places that don’t matter”: namely, the Middle East and Global South. Environmentalism in their view amounts to race treason. This type actually wants climate change to be real (some even admit that it is), but demand that nothing be done about it because inaction — coupled with a Fortress Europe policy letting Africans die on dinghys, and Trump’s travel ban (which they seriously expect to be leveled against Canada) — would literally amount to a massive genocide of what they call the “shit monkeys.”

      Group 2 is arguably even scarier than the deniers, because they actually take delight in the concept of weaponized apathy. They wank to those commercials with the emaciated black children. “Drought porn” is a thing for them.

      • NotALiar

        Jesus. Id heard a bit about the alt right global warming = white genocide but holy shit. Jesus.

    • Cat Cafe for the Prosecution

      I know, I don’t understand it. I think it must be fear. They are stupid, and uneducated, and simple-minded, and the modern world is moving too fast for them and they can’t keep up, so they retreat into fear and mockery and denial. You’d think they’d be embarrassed to be so obvious about their pathetic failure to function or understand anything. But they’ve been aided and abetted by the most fearful, uneducated, and simple-minded of them all, who is simply using them for his own gain. I’d feel sorry for them if they weren’t so fucking mean and awful.

      • kareemachan

        I know that the world is moving more and more quickly. I realize as an oldie I am left behind with stuff. (Example: my SIL gives me pitying looks when I have no clue about techie stuff. Oh well, I feel I learn things on a need-to-know basis.) It’s frustrating and mind-boggling, yes, but it hasn’t yet driven me to fear and denial.

        Yet again, I must recommend (although I suspect they are a tad dated now) John Brunner’s excellent two books ‘Stand on Zanzibar’ and ‘The Sheep Look Up’. He was ahead of his time.

        • Bad Tom

          Those two books are good, but terribly depressing.

        • Regret

          I do not know these books, but I will add them to my to read list.
          That list is getting long…

          Anyway, regarding Climate I really like Kim Stanley Robinson’s Green Earth the much shorter and better combination of Forty Signs Of Rain, Fifty Degrees Below, and Sixty Days And Counting.

          It is for climate change what his Mars trilogy was for planetary colonization.
          The Guardian calls it ‘The Brave New World of global warming’, though I can’t agree with that. Huxley’s novels are not as good as Robinson’s.

      • Cranky Man

        It’s a cargo cult

        • Cat Cafe for the Prosecution

          100%. almost literally!

  • I was visiting my mom earlier this summer, and her husband opined that he didn’t believe in global warming. He was looking for some kind of argument. I thought for a moment, and replied that I could accept that he doesn’t believe that climate change isn’t caused by human beings, but what I couldn’t accept was not behaving as if it were. After all, I added, what if you’re wrong? He was pretty taken aback by such a question, and since he couldn’t answer — apparently the good folks at all the right wing outlets they listen to hadn’t thought to supply their listeners with talking points to answer such a question with — the conversation ended right there.

    Whew!

    • Dudleydidwrong

      Be careful using such logic. I understand they attack when they’re cornered.

      • It was a case of paralysis due to a lack of script to follow.

    • Nicholas

      After all, what if we created more fuel efficient cars, energy efficient homes and offices, reduced atmospheric pollution and generally made people’s lives better and it was all for nothing?

      • HooverVilles

        Indeed. What if?
        Sigh!

    • President in Exile Firefly

      Yup. That’s been my strategy. “If I’m wrong, we spend some money building a renewables-based economy and maybe economic growth goes down a bit. If you’re wrong, then what?”

      • You couple that with being the richest fucking country in the fucking history of the fucking world, and ya gotta ask yourself, what can’t we afford to do? What? Ain’t nothing we can’t afford to do. We want to build a renewables-based economy, we can afford to do it. We lack the political will to do it.

        • kareemachan

          Too many politicians with their hands in the oil industry’s cookie jar.

      • javadavis

        I think that economic growth wouldn’t really go down from building renewables. Consider – coal is a finite resource (same for oil elsewhere) so continuing as if it will never run out is, not to put too fine a point on it, stupid and bound to end in an economic crash when the resource is effectively gone. How’s that for economic growth?
        Of course, with your way you don’t have to explain words like “finite” and get into “yes, really, we’ll run out” arguments with your Hen-stuck-in-the-Foxhouse relatives and associates.

  • Old town Urbandale

    I hear Donnie’s gonna order the Navy to tow it up to Washington D.C. where it can be cut into ice cubes to serve in drinks at the Republican Climate Change Deniers Fundraiser.

    • Bad Tom

      Every ship in our Navy, all together, could not tow a trillion ton anything anywhere.

      • commatoes

        So you’re saying that facts and science have stopped Dolt 45 in the past.

        • Bad Tom

          They haven’t stopped Lord Dampnut from saying anything.
          They sure have stopped Lord Dampnut from doing things.

          One example: that Navy ship (see!) that was supposed to be menacing North Korea was actually in a completely different ocean, steaming the other way.

          Lord Dampnut could not move the ship to where he wanted it to be, just because it would be better for him.

          • commatoes

            Sorry, my default tone is sarcasm. It often does not translate into text.

    • cleos_mom

      There’s a tour boat (highly recommended) out of Seward, AK where they scoop fragments of glacial ice out of the water and offer it to guests who are interested in having thousand-year-old ice in their drinks.

      Don’t tell Donnie.

  • Dudleydidwrong

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2017/07/13/christian-writer-climate-change-is-harmless-because-god-promises-us-good/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=BRSS&utm_campaign=Nonreligious&utm_content=361

    Global warming can’t be real, says this fundamentalist Christian, for the following reasons:
    1. God is pro-carbon because He created so much of it. It can’t be bad.
    2. Renewable energy (wind, solar) is bad because it kills birds, and God created birds.
    3. God only does good stuff so he wouldn’t snuff us out or bother us too badly.
    (Sigh….)

    • Wookie Monster

      Did anyone mention Noah to this Christian?

      • kareemachan

        Or any of the cities he instructed his people to rape, pillage, and plunder and then burn to the ground?

  • Alex Grey

    Damn, his desk (not to mention the rest of Washington DC) will be in trouble if he puts this “snowball” on top of it.

  • ez

    As this big honking slab of ice is already floating around, I fail to see how when it melts it will raise the level of the Ocean at all. It is already displacing that volume of water.

    To obseverve this on your own, toss a couple of ice cubes in a glass and fill with water until totally full and allow to melt. Does it over flow? Nope.

    Now a huge ice mass melting on land can and will raise sea levels.

    Stupid perhaps but…since it will be free floating could someone jam a flag in it and claim it as their own nation? I kind of like the idea of being the ruler of Freedonia

    • kareemachan

      The structure of ice (you know a science-y thing) causes the water molecules in this solid form to form a crystalline lattice. In this form, it is less dense than in its liquid form, thus enabling it to float. Above the water. Maybe it is less perceptible in your theoretical glass of ice water, but believe the scientists: on this scale it could and would raise the level of an ocean, capitalized or not.

      Extrapolation has its merits and its pitfalls. Thank you for showing us this.

      • ez

        Water, like most everything else, shrinks somewhat as it cools. An interesting thing does happen as it approaches it’s freezing point, it begins to expand as the molecules shift orientation. That shifting causes it’s expansion. The weight of the ice remains the same, only the density changes. The total weight of the ice, in this case the big honking iceberg, causes the displacement of the surrounding water.

        So you have displacement of the ice when frozen. As it melts it loses it’s unique orientation and no longer takes up extra volume. I may not remember all the details but we did this experiment (if you wish to call watching ice melt an experiment) in inorganic chem using a 1000ML graduated volumetric cylinder and a plug of ice. Tadah, the measured volume at the meniscus after a plug of ice was gently added remained the same when the ice had melted.

        It would make a neat Bar Bet. :)

        • Lance Thrustwell

          Hi ez. I agree with you that the ice-melting-raising-sea-levels thing is counterintuitive. However, I am really kind of inclined to believe that thousands of people with PhD’s in physics, climatology and environmental science have not, in fact, missed any basic facts about the behavior of, um, ice in water.

    • VirginiaWackelpudding

      Aren’t those ice masses what keep the land ice masses from sliding into de sea? Yes, yes they are. Like a bottle won’t spill if the cap is on tight if it gets knocked over. Take away the cap, knock it over and you have the contents of said bottle going all over outside the bottle. It’s also like the fence that keeps the chickens in the pen where they can’t kill people.

    • Regret

      Well, they are saying it would cause a 3mm increase if it all melted into the ocean, but since it was already on the water there won’t be any effect. The 3mm is merely another way to emphasize its size.
      Quote:
      “The iceberg contains so much mass that if all of it were added anew to
      the ocean, it would drive almost 3 millimeters of global sea level rise.
      In this case though, the ice was already afloat so there won’t be a
      substantial sea level change.”
      The word ‘anew’ is essential there.

      Fun side effect: Sea water circulation is very layered, with the different salinities barely mixing. Dumping a massive load of fresh water into that mix could mess with the usual circulatory patterns. Expect large local changes in climate if that happens.
      I have no idea if there are such currents near this berg though.

      Another fun thought about ice on land: There comes a point where enough melt water gets under the ice, where it mixes with salt deposits and dirt to make a slippery layer of mud. If this happens, then instead of moving at glacier speeds, the ice will move at avalanche speeds. Now, THAT will make a big splash.

  • SKruetheratbassedarDs

    Well, since he is old, and quite the traditionalist, what say we put Imhofe into a southbound helicopter, drop him onto “A68,” and then just forget about him . . .

  • mardam422

    As long as it lasts…Partayyyyy Island. That bad boy will make a killer Jim Beam Apple and soda!!!11

  • unionthuggery

    I wonder if the last dinosaurs stood around arguing about their demise.

    Oh! Let’s ask the Ark encounter peeps. They’d know!

  • toughsister

    Set James Inhofe adrift on that iceberg. How long will it take to melt completely?

    • RMKH

      The hot air emanating from his pie hole would melt it in days

  • S Snell

    What this article, and the commenters, are missing is that this is all a completely normal process. Put it this way: Shed happens. Ice shed, that is. Antarctica is a five-million-square mile catchment area for snowfall., Because of the intense, permanent cold, what snow that falls never melts. It piles up to a certain point and then begins to flow downhill, under gravity. It’s called glaciation. The current average ice thickness over the Antarctic landmass is about 10,000 feet.

    Eventually the flowing ice reaches the ocean and spreads out. At times, because of currents and wind, these ice shelves break off and float away. It is completely normal, even inevitable, and has been going on for the last couple of million years without letup.

    Global warming has nothing to do with this because, but for a very small part of the Antarctic Peninsula, the part that reaches way up toward South America, Antarctica is as cold as ever, with a near-record area of ice coverage. Right now, at the south pole the temperature is minus 86 degrees Fahrenheit. That’s about average for this time of year.

    Basically nobody is arguing about the reality of a warming planet, just the causes. Given that the Little Ice Age, the coldest period in probably 6000 years, ended only about 200 years ago, many Earth scientists see the current warm spell as rebound to the Holocene normal. And, as Martha Stewart might say, that’s a good thing.

    Antarctica is not melting. And even if it were, dozens or hundreds of centuries would be required for the process to play out. The interglacial period we currently enjoy, yes enjoy, would almost certainly come to an end long before that could take place. And that will NOT be a good thing for any humans still around.

    • Beanz&Berryz

      And in Greenland?

      • S Snell

        Greenland is eight hundred plus thousand square miles in size with an average ice thickness approaching 10,000 feet. The southern part of Greenland historically experiences strong summertime melting because of its relatively low latitude. But most of what melts is replenished during a snowfall season that lasts 8 to 10 months.

        Right now Greenland’s ice expanse and melt rates are within historical bounds. There is more ice now than there was a thousand years ago, when thick forests along the coastal margins led Norse settlers to give it the seemingly ironic name it still bears.

    • andyshelt

      “Basically nobody is arguing about the reality of a warming planet, just the causes.”

      Have to take issue with this as the scientists aren’t arguing about the causes of climate change just right-wing morons like Inhofe and Koch Brothers industry shills.

      The scientific consensus accepts that climate change is largely man-made and this is a fake debate by vested interests in the same way that the religious right try to argue that there is a debate to be held on evolution and schools should “teach the controversy”.

      Not true in both cases.

      • S Snell

        You are repeating a very tired talking point that happens not to be true. The consensus you describe is a political one, not scientific. And don’t quote that “97 percent,” figure either. That figure is a fabrication created by partisans and repeated by a credulous media. It has been completely, irreversibly debunked. Don’t take my word for it. Look it up. You may choose from many sources. Many, many highly credentialed people, far brighter than you or me, do not subscribe to global warming alarmism.

        Furthermore, science does not work by consensus. If it did we would still believe in an Earth-centered Universe, and would accept phrenology as a proper diagnostic tool.

        Climate is monstrously complex, loaded with uncertainties, and very incompletely understood. Thousands of interlinked, highly dynamic variables contribute to the making of this thing we call climate. Does it not strike you as a tad simplistic to assign so much weight to just one of those variables, one arguably of only minor overall importance?

        Habitually using terms like “moron” and “idiot” to describe your ideological opponents says more about you than it does about them. Such behavior reveals you to be an uncivil, judgemental, and intolerant, person, not to mention a sloppy and lazy thinker.

        • andyshelt

          Ah, a climate change denier.

          The Koch Brothers and the GOP thank you for your service to their grubby little cause of creating confusion about “global warming alarmism” to use your pathetic right-wing talking point.

          PS: You’re a moron and an idiot!

          • S Snell

            You say “denier,” an ugly little term, but you mean “heretic.” If you
            had even a sliver of an open mind you would at least consider that I might have a point or two. But that fact that you can’t and you won’t is a sign of dogma at work. FTR, name-calling is the preferred tactic of children and the immature. Which one are you?

          • andyshelt

            Go fuck yourself you idiotic tinfoil hat nutjob Koch Brothers shill.

            PS: Hope that answers your question about name calling you moronic right-wing piece of shit.

        • CatDog

          The fact that one consensus sometimes replaces another does not mean that science does not work by consensus. If it did, we would not know whether or not to believe in an Earth-centered universe or in phrenology as a proper diagnostic tool. But here’s a demonstrable fact: you don’t have the slightest idea how science or logical argument work.

          • S Snell

            All human cooperative activities–and science is one of those–unavoidably involve some degree of consensus. But consensus, conventional wisdom, groupthink, whatever you want to call it, is the enemy of unfettered investigation because it closes off avenues of discovery. Conventional wisdom is often wrong, witness my earlier examples.

        • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

          “It has been completely, irreversibly debunked. Don’t take my word for it. Look it up”

          Always a sign of bullshit. YOU made the claim, YOU show us how it is “completely, irreversibly debunked.”

        • TX Dept. of Space Tacos

          yes it’s normal, what’s NOT normal is that the trend of highest temperatures on earth spikes around the industrial age and shows no signs of slowing.

          you keep mentioning season changes, but as Neil Degrasse Tyson so eloquently pointed out, it’s not the oscillation, it’s the trend.

          And you have the goddamn gall to call others sloppy and lazy.

          • S Snell

            I replied to this but it was “detected as spam.” I see how this works. If you want to see my reply, look at the disqus thread.

        • Choo Choo

          Those morons and idiots said an electric cars, windmills, and solar would never work. That’s how they got the moniker.

          • S Snell

            No credible person ever said that they would not work, just that they were inefficient, which they are. Electric cars just make the existing power grid work that much harder because they must be recharged. Windmills are very expensive, kilowatt for kilowatt, generate a great deal of CO2 as a by-product of their manufacture, generate electricity (very expensively) only when the wind blows and must be backed up by conventional energy sources to prevent the power grid from crashing. South Australia, which unwisely scrapped perfectly good conventional power plants to rely on windmills, suffered a catastrophic power outage a few months long ago because a bunch of turbines quit suddenly in heavy winds. And because of their dependence on wind turbines, SA has the most expensive electricity on the planet. The very best solar panels are about 40 percent efficient, tops. You need gobs of them to power even a midsize house. A full on solar rig costs well into five figures, and takes decades to pay for itself, which it never does because the efficiency of solar panels declines over time and they must be periodically replaced. FTR, every commercial intermittent power generator, such as a solar or wind array, must be backed up by conventional power to prevent damage to the power grid when they cycle in and out. You see the power grid is actually quite fragile, and easily damage. And when it goes down millions pay for it. Details are a bitch, aren’t they?

          • Choo Choo

            You’re slow, that dates back a month ago. Jimmy Carter put up solar panels, just to have Reagan take them down instead of furthering the development of the technology. You are wrong on to many points. I’m going to -in the troll column.

          • Choo Choo

            You don’t know what you’re talking about.

        • akita96th

          Sorry to bust your elitist bubble but….Calling these Republican Turd polishers morons and idiots is the most prefered way to describe these pieces of shit and not use other prefered expletives…like assholes,fuktard,moronic embeciles ..etc etc..These are not nice names but they do apply if the shoe fits and I think all republicans have the same shoe size… and the shoes fits them all.

          • S Snell

            Name calling is the province of the intellectually limited. You seem to be pretty good at it, by the way.

          • akita96th

            You are the sad product of a misguided cumshot… (oops moment fer dadda) But you are are a diligent crusader for the Trumpies…So here’s yer cookie. Trump on man …

  • VirginiaWackelpudding

    Penguins. I never completely trusted those lil guys. There’s something fishy about them.

    • S Snell

      that hurts my feelings! The Penguin was my favorite Batman character.

  • andyshelt

    If only those damn scientists stopped debating with each other and changing their minds as the evidence changes rather than just accepting the truth of a 2,000 year old book written by Bronze Age tribesmen then we’d all be happier!

  • JohnW

    Actually if you follow the logic of flat earth’s, it’s not a problem. This ginormous bit of ice will simply float to the edge of the earth and fall off. Presto, no sea level rising! No problem!

  • javadavis

    Hmm – huge iceberg breaks off of Antarctica, biggest recorded. What could have caused this? What does this discussion remind me of? Oh, I know!
    In the 90s I remember reading obits for the cause of death (pneumonia, Kaposi’s, like that) for various celebs and guessing whether they were AIDs related. No one died of AIDs though, due to the nature of that disease. It was always an infection of some kind that ran rampant because the primary illness had shut down the immune system, allowing the secondary infection to kill the host.
    My next question for climate change deniers is ‘if you or your loved one has pneumonia, do you turn down treatment on the grounds that it is not AIDs related and therefore No Big Deal?’

    • S Snell

      The ice breaks off because it has too because there is continuous input due to snowfall all across the continent. It’s the frozen equivalent of rainfall flowing to the sea due to gravity. It’s called glaciation. It’s not a static system.

      • javadavis

        At least they finally found the Northwest Passage.

  • At least we a place to put all us old folks now. Health care solved.

  • DaveM

    For all of you out there that are pushing the party line (Republican) about climate change, global warming and such really just shut the fuck up. That would be people like you S Snell. I know people and have worked with people in this for some 15 years and you are blowing smoke out of your ass. It is as simple as this. Our atmosphere is warming due to carbon emissions. The ocean being cooler will try to absorb the heat. As a consequence it too will heat up causing ice to melt. So I must ask S Snell if they have any idea of how the second law of thermo dynamics works. Well do you? Please explain it. I gave you a huge clue. Can you actually pull an answer out of your Einstein like brain and tell me how it works? If you look it up it should tell you just why shit is rapidly melting in places where it did not before.

    • S Snell

      Dude, I will match wits with you any day of the week, without sleep, with one lobe tied behind my back.

  • Zyxomma

    It looks like humanity is doomed. I’m glad I didn’t have kids, and don’t have nieces or nephews. I do, however, have some lovely cousins and hope they have a planet fit to live on, along with all the lovely children/grandchildren of the Wonketteers.

    • S Snell

      Humanity has always been doomed. All species have a life span. If we want ours to be a little longer, we probably ought to be working to get our numbers way down. Because pretty much all of humanity’s large problems are due to the fact that there are too many of us.

  • crawdaddy

    I’m sure this has been asked many times. What is the motive of the vast number of scientist for this hoax? Is Berkshire Hathaway paying them with all of their crony capitalist dollars? In that case what is Warren’s motive. Is there a huge battery cartel in Omaha? Has Warren shorted every coal and oil company on the board?

    Has the adult population gone mad? Yes to that one. When did the collective IQ dip toward moron? How this country functions as well as it does is amazing. When you think about it – a really nice chunk of the working population is grossly over paid.

    • S Snell

      To begin with, people, being social creature, go along to get along. When their is a prevailing view, right or wrong, the natural tendency is for most people to go along with it, because the alternative is some degree of social ostracism. right now Climate Alarmism has a powerful hold on the system. Grant dollars flow by the billions, that’s with a B, to those who investigate supposedly anthropogenic climate change. Very close to zero dollars flow to those who propose natural causes for the current warm spell. If somebody offers you money to find a problem, you find a problem.

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