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The 'moderate' one
The ‘moderate’ one

Last week, Ohio Governor John Kasich passed a law outlawing abortions after 20 weeks. In doing so, he also vetoed a bill passed by the Ohio legislature that would outlaw abortions after about six weeks, which would have given abortion-havers one or two weeks after first missing their periods (if they’re regular) to have their legally mandated “abortion counseling session” and then wait at least 24 hours before having an abortion.

The bill Kasich vetoed is known as a “Heartbeat Bill” — although that is a medically inaccurate misnomer. As the wonderful Dr. Jen Gunter points out, this would be more accurately termed a “fetal pole cardiac activity” bill. You see, although fetal “cardiac activity” can be detected at 6 weeks after conception, it’s not at all what we think of as being a “heartbeat.” In fact, heart tissue cells don’t even begin to organize until about 20 weeks after conception.

There’s no science behind these bills — they’re simply meant to tug at the heartstrings of non-fetal Americans, who will hear the term “Heartbeat Bill” and assume that the fetus is READY TO LOVE YOU, and is “this close” to being a fully formed person, when in fact it looks more like this at that stage:

screen-shot-2016-12-11-at-11-35-44-am

Whatever we call it, however, they want it and aim to have it! The Ohio House says it is only two votes shy of the 60 votes it would need in order to be able to overturn Gov. Kasich’s veto of the bill.

The Toledo Blade reports: 

Speaker Cliff Rosenberger (R., Clarksville) said Wednesday that talks continue about potentially coming back during the week between Christmas and midnight on New Year’s Eve to consider an override of that bill and any other measure the governor might veto in coming days.

“If we feel we need to come back, we’ll come back,” Mr. Rosenberger said.

“We may have to watch the ball drop from the House floor,” he added.

However, Gabriel Mann, spokesman for NARAL ProChoice Ohio, points out that they may not be as close as they seem. Some legislators, he suggests, may have only voted for the bill because they knew Kasich would veto it anyway. Gabriel Mann has more faith in human beings than I do, I suppose.

Anti-choice wackjob nice lady Janet Porter of Faith2Action is, in the meantime, imploring her supporters to contact members of the Ohio legislature, and sending out emails stating “Don’t give up — we have never been closer to ending abortion than we are right now!”

Except not, because “heartbeat bills” have never, ever passed constitutional muster. They’re not legal. You cannot have them. At least not right now — at least not until one of the liberal SCOTUS judges falls down dead or retires and is replaced by whatever asshole Trump comes up with. PLEASE DON’T DIE, NON-SHITTY SCOTUS JUDGES.

This, of course, is why Kasich vetoed the “Fetal Pole Cardiac Activity” bill in the first place. Because, as much as he might love the idea of banning all the abortions, he knows that Roe v. Wade allows women to have them up until the point of viability, and that there is a likelihood of even his dumb-ass 20-week abortion ban getting blocked by the courts for being unconstitutional, as has happened in Arizona, Georgia, and Idaho. He’s trading in something he knows he won’t get away with for something he thinks has a better chance.

Let’s all hope that these Ohio legislators have a lovely holiday, trying to get it together to pass something that will 100% definitely be found unconstitutional by basically any court in the land. I’m sure they’ll all feel it’s worth it in the end.

[Toledo Blade]

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  • Ali | Desperately Seeking Brad

    When is the GOP just going to admit their real party platform is being all up in my snatch?

    • Unpresidented Ron

      Don’t put on airs. They’re also all up in brown people’s faces.

      • Ali | Desperately Seeking Brad

        I’d argue they’re more like stomping on their backs. With a shotgun. Because economic anxiety and fear for their lives.

    • Oblios_Cap

      An interesting agenda..

  • dslindc

    But think of how many lawyer jerbs will be created with all the taxpayer money wasted on those doomed court challenges! Surely that’s a better use of money than helping poors or educating children!

    • You forgot the social safety net! No one uses that thing anyways!

      • Unpresidented Ron

        Of course not. It’s full of enormous holes.

      • Shawn Renee Ernoehazy

        Trying to apply for SNAP and energy assistance last year, we were denied because we couldn’t prove we had no income. They wanted paystubs or proof of unemployment benefits that had long since run out. I have a better chance of getting assistance now that I have two part time jobs and am sort of self employed.

  • Marceline

    Another reason he vetoed it is because like all of his red state brethren, Kasich has tanked Ohio’s economy and he doesn’t want to use the few pennies we still have on a losing court battle.

    • I laughed my ass off at all the coverage of “Super Moderate Kasich!” During the primaries

      • Marceline

        In the GOP, not having a glaring personality disorder makes you a moderate.

        • Celtic_Gnome

          Plus, he appeared able to walk and chew gum at the same time without shitting his pants.

          Doubleplusgood!

  • We’re hermetically sealing Notorious RBG in a padded room between sessions, right?

    • Unpresidented Ron

      We need to put her in cryosleep and just wake her for voting.

    • Blacktop Autumn

      You guys got it all wrong.

      We need to invest in Futurama head technology.

  • Unpresidented_in_Seattle

    Forget it Cleveland. All the extra babies will not make you great again.
    – Da Cubs

  • It seems mean to not let an 83 year old, 2 time cancer ass kicker, not retire and enjoy the fruits of her life, but, FSM we need her. The Cheeto-dusted shitgibbon will replace her with someone less qualified than Harriet Meyers and crazier than Pence

    • Mr. Blobfish

      Supreme Court Justice Ivanka has a nice ring to it.

      • Martini Ambassador

        “Does this robe make my ass look fat?”

      • Ali | Desperately Seeking Brad

        “Daddy, this mean lawyer was yelling at me!”

      • Doug Langley

        “I think I’ll rule for the plaintiff. He’s soooo dreamy looking, and I just love how his cuff links complement his tie . . .”

      • puredog

        Rudy still needs a job.

        • Celtic_Gnome

          And we can’t rule out the excitement of dangling the nomination in front of Ted Cruz just so he can yank it out from under him.

          Now, that’s entertainment!

    • Spotts1701, Resistance Pilot

      So Orly Taitz?

    • Querolous

      “What’s in it for me?”-Hair Twitler

  • Resistance Fighter Callyson

    And how quickly do the forced birthers stop caring about THE BABIES! once they are born? In a heartbeat…

    • I have no value to most forced birthers because of my refusal to become even a voluntary incubator

  • Unpresidented_in_Seattle

    The GOP young voter outreach program is desperate if their appealing to 20 week old fetuses.

    • Unpresidented Ron

      Worse, they’re also after the zygote vote.

  • msanthropesmr

    I think I saw that thing on the X-Files

  • Courser

    You know what? I give zero fucks about the disgusting, evil shitbags that live in Ohio. Fine, outlaw abortion, masturbation, turn your entire fucking state into the same smoking crater that’s Kansas. As long as you keep electing fascists, you’re welcome to the Hellscape of a Red Ohio. If you aren’t happy you can fucking leave and come to a blue state where we believe people deserve respect.

    • Blacktop Autumn

      But then they’ll clutter up our states with their bullshit. :-(

      • No one needs that much fertilizer

      • Courser

        Colorado already has thousands of homeless teens and twenty-somethings who came here to get rich in the marijuana biz. All homeless wandering around begging for weed money

    • Ali | Desperately Seeking Brad

      Some people legitimately cannot afford to move, though.

      • beingreleased

        I bet they can buy a house in Flint really cheap.

        • Courser

          Who’s saying anything about *buying* anything? Anyone who own a home is wealthy to me. I’ll never be able to own a home. If I’m really fucking lucky, I’ll manage to swing a small travel trailer, otherwise it’ll be living out of the back of my truck

      • Courser

        Too bad. I know it sucks but people have been known to pack up their car or get on a bus to get out of ugly places.

    • Martini Ambassador

      I think women in Ohio need our support, though. Sucks not to have mobility options.

      • Courser

        I’m a monthly donor to PP. Good enough. I refuse to lose anymore sleep over folks living in red states

        • Martini Ambassador

          Well, that’s good, PP definitely needs our support. But please consider that not everybody that lives in red states get to control their own fates.

          • Courser

            *I* don’t get to control *my* fate so same-same

          • Martini Ambassador

            Gotcha. Just not into victim-blaming. And as a liberal, I promise that I will look out for your needs and rights too.

          • Courser

            Neither am I. In fact, I have a masters in Emergency & Disaster Management and am an active member of a Search and Rescue team that is currently searching a dump looking for a murdered woman. I’m have plenty of progressive, love-all-people cred. We’re the people who go rescue dumbasses in the wilderness.

            I’m a progressive myself, but I’m an oldz. You do realize that the people in those red states destroyed any chance I might have to retire some day. I live and telecommute for a contract job in a 600 square foot apartment and drive a 17 year old truck. I get no sick time, vacation time or paid holidays. I will lose over $400 in pay over the holidays. I’m 58 years old and after the recession I have no retirement savings at all.

            Yes, I’m goddamn angry. I’m tired of caring for others only to get kicked in the teeth time after time. Yes, I will drag your red-state ass off the side of some mountainside you had no business being on and you will not be charged a fucking dime. But don’t ask me to give a fuck when your fucking asshole of a governor passes some new racist, mysogynist, bigoted, ignorant, anti-education law. You voted for ’em so you must love living under The Regime. Good Luck to you.

          • Shawn Renee Ernoehazy

            Wow, I get that. I am a late in life career changer (or finder in my mind). I am a mental health professional (Marriage and Family Therapist) and had to live on meager “retirement funds” for over two years after being laid off by my day job at a title company. My late in life undergrad was in Business Management. I challenged HR, supervisor, and manager when seriously illegal shit happened to me (short pay when I worked in the field, among other things). I also informed others of their rights in the office. I was a one person department that had quadrupled my scope of work in the nearly 10 years there with not one raise. No severance was offered when I was laid off (first in my life as an employee), I was so shocked, all I could say was, “this is the first time I have ever had to apply for unemployment!” I was 47. I am now making the same hourly pay as at my last job; but this one requires an MS and a professional license. I am turning 50 on inauguration day and had to cash out every retirement plan I ever had to pay the bills. Student loans are still growing in compounded interest.
            I really love the work I do now. I do not wake up every Monday in an anxiety state and know I make a real difference in small ways. It doesn’t really pay the bills though.

          • Courser

            Congratulations! Also, I’m also genuinely sorry? It’s a unique thing to pursue your heart’s desire but without adequate compensation. You *do* make a difference not just in small ways, but in the skills that you give people to survive and thrive in difficult time. I believe that all the therapy I’ve gotten over the years (and I have gotten shittons of therapy) has been with MSWs. They’ve quite literally saved my life many times over. Those skills stay with the people you’ve worked with for a lifetime, long after they’ve left your care. I use them every day.

          • Shawn Renee Ernoehazy

            Thanks! I know it makes a difference, and I also truly believe that the people I help also improve the relationships they have and it has a ripple effect in the world. A little idealistic, but not complete fantasy. My husband and kids insist I must begin writing books so I can share more. I have bits and pieces started, maybe in the next 5 years.

    • Marceline

      I live in Ohio so…thanks?

      • Courser

        I’m sorry?

        • Shan

          Can also stop shitting on Kansas. Someone has to stay to clean the mess up for everyone (like me) who can’t just up and leave.

          http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/21/us/politics/kansas-republicans-democrats-elections.html?_r=0

          • puredog

            Shitting on Kansas is, in the final analysis, rather redundant.

          • Shan

            Thanks for your support.

          • Courser

            You’re my next door neighbor.

            Yeah, again, I’m 58 years old. I’ve been waiting for all of us progressives to ‘clean shit up’ since 1976. How’s that working out for us now that we’ve lost the entire country to an authoritarian regime? Thanks for dragging the rest of us down with you?

            I may live in a blue state but I’m losing everything I’ve worked for right along with ‘ya. Make you feel better? I’m so dog-dead tired, demoralized and repulsed that I’ve got nothing left to give you, much less help myself. I’m goddamn used up and I have nothing left to give you and I’m about as fucking sorry about that as I can possibly be.

            ETA: I am very sorry, but I’m extremely angry this morning. I know it sounds like ‘sorry, not sorry’ but it’s the best I can do today.

          • Shan

            I understand you’re angry. A lot of people are, for a lot of justifiable reasons. I just don’t think it does any good to point blame-fingers at whole states and make unrealistic suggestions that the blue voters should just move. Move to WHERE? If the whole country is as fucked as you say because we red-staters have dragged the rest of you down with us now, what’s the point?

          • Courser

            I honestly don’t think most people ‘get it’. You haven’t lived long enough.

            Between climate change greatly increasing deadly storms that’s going to decimate the SE of the country and the increasing droughts burning out our heartlands (which is happening as we speak) and the draconian policies enacted in red states, there will be a massive migration right here in the US. No healthcare, no food stamps, no family support of any kind in red states very, very soon. They new Regime will drive the entire country into the ground just like Kansas. We’ve already seen the feds toothless in the case of ‘failed state’ NC. The federal agencies will be gutted and powerless the minute Obama leaves office. The courts have already been decimated because the Republican Congress refused to approve a vast number of judicial nominees. We will lose the Supreme Court at the same time.

            So who are we going to turn to for justice? The fucking UN?

          • Shan

            I honestly don’t think most people ‘get it’. You haven’t lived long enough.

            Don’t condescend to me, please. You’re not that much older than I am and you don’t know me. I’ve been watching what’s going on for a long time, too, and I’m pissed and scared as well but I’m not going to try to have a conversation about it with someone who keeps using Kansas as a generic punching bag for their incoherent rage. Especially if they haven’t read the article I linked to about how Kansas is actually trying to DO something about the results of the asshole voting practices it’s engaged in for so many years.

            http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/21/us/politics/kansas-republicans-democrats-elections.html?_r=0

          • Courser

            I’m sorry Shan, that I didn’t acknowledge that I’d read the NYT article first thing this morning. I agree that it’s encouraging and it will be interesting to see what he can accomplish.

            ETA: Also, I didn’t make it about Kansas. I only mentioned Ohio in my post, not a word about Kansas (specifically *because* I had read the article you pointed out), but you accused me of ‘shitting on Kansas’. I didn’t. It doesn’t matter a rat’s ass but just for the sake of argument. Also, I have no particular animus against Kansas and I’m far more enraged at MI, OH, FL;

          • Shan

            I’m hoping that it’s good for ALL of us. As in, hey, if even KANSAS (the “R-word state”) can recognize that they’ve been fucking themselves over all this time and are starting to take steps to improve things…maybe the rest of the country can figure it out as well.

    • theblackdog

      Problem is that their ideas tend to start spreading to other states or the dickbags who pass these bills end up in the US Congress.

    • Doug Langley
  • Martini Ambassador

    I really wish non-uterus-owners would stay out of this shit.
    https://apophemi.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/texas-bortion.jpg?w=496

    • ViveLaRésistance

      I would like to see Donald grab this lady’s pussy.

    • Villago Delenda Est

      The man is a living example of the efficacy of post-partum abortion into the 180th trimester.

    • puredog

      Now wait, you don’t know, he might be transgendered and DID once have an abortion. Don’t go jumping to conclusions.

    • Celtic_Gnome

      I really need to know which bathroom she uses.

      Actually, my wives and daughters need to know.

  • Suttree

    Can we leave Cleveland where it is and move the rest of Ohio to somewhere it would be more comfortable? Maybe between Mississippi and Alabama.

    • Bill Slider

      There is heavy competition for that space.

      • Villago Delenda Est

        Pennsyltucky has dibs.

  • BearGHAZI

    Kasich only votes for bills that have an “Oh shucks” or “Oh geez” in the title

    • Ali | Desperately Seeking Brad

      Now I’m wondering if we can get pro-social, non-fucked up bills passed by just calling them Make America Great Bills. The “Make America Great IN MAH PANTS” bill to protect transgendered people. The “Make America Great IN YAH WOMAN’S PANTS” bill to protect abortion.

  • beingreleased

    When will the media start talking about how Trump had his foundation pay for his mistresses abortions? I realize I made that up and there’s no evidence that its true, but that’s an irrelevant triviality to this discussion.

    • I read that on the internet just today

      • Vincent Ricola

        I read that too! I saw that Donald Trump used his foundation to pay for MULTIPLE abortions for his mistresses! I believe it too, it’s being said by very smart people.

        • Oblios_Cap

          Lots of people are saying that.

        • Mr. Blobfish

          It needs to be looked at strongly. Tremendous.

        • puredog

          It is my patriotic duty to speculate. To not do so would not just be irresponsible, it might be treasonous.

      • janecita

        Then, it must be true!

      • Snopes Shop

        Putting it out there.

    • Courser

      Since we’re all Post-Truth now, it’s 100% true if you say so.

      • beingreleased

        It is a sincerely held belief. Isn’t that the current standard?

        • Unpresidented Ron

          I sincerely believe it is.

    • Mr. Blobfish

      There are probably dozens of abortions and just as many non-disclosure agreements. Funny how you never hear a peep from Marla about her scumbag ex.

    • Ali | Desperately Seeking Brad

      Honestly, I would be shocked if this WASN’T true.

  • calliecallie

    Remember from the wizard of oz when the witches guards were marching around singing? From a child, I always thought they were singing “O-HI-O, O-HIIII-O.” I didn’t even live in Michigan then. Now that I do, I know without doubt or equivocation that Ohio sucks, and those witches guards were, in fact, singing about their homeland.

  • Unpresidented_in_Seattle

    “Don’t give up — we have never been closer to ending abortion than we are right now!”
    – Janet Porter
    Why are people who have no prospect of sex in the future obsessed with reproductive rights.

    • Unpresidented Ron

      Jealousy?

      • Unpresidented_in_Seattle

        somewhere in the bible, hormones was mis-typed as whore moans?

        • Spotts1701, Resistance Pilot

          Whore moans are a valuable resource!

    • HazooToo

      Because when more attractive women have sex, they’re whores, and they don’t deserve it. This is how they plan to punish them, because the only consolation for someone else getting laid while they’re not is that they’re going to get fat and have stretch marks and become unappealing lifeless Mommies.

    • Celtic_Gnome

      As George Carlin observed, “How come the only people who are against abortion are ones you wouldn’t want to fuck anyway?”

  • Oblios_Cap

    I don’t understand. if you don’t like abortion, then don’t ever get one. What’s so hard about that? It’s like people who complaining to the network about a TV show instead of just changing their channel.

    • Ali | Desperately Seeking Brad

      BECAUSE GOD SAYS EVERY LIFE IS SACRED*.

      *Some restrictions apply.

      • Oblios_Cap

        I always have had a hard time seeing those asterisks …

    • shivaskeeper

      How would get your rocks off telling everyone else what they can and can’t according to their god? It’s all about controlling others.

      • TJ Barke

        Their god isn’t even really fussed enough to talk about it in the bible in any specific fashion.

        • georgiaburning

          There are some dated instructions on how to do it

          • shivaskeeper

            In the OT even.

          • TJ Barke

            In the case of adultery at least.

        • shivaskeeper

          Doesn’t matter to them. Their god says whatever they say he says. He happens to hate the same people they do, hate all the same things they hate. Coincidence? I think not.

        • UncleTravelingMatt

          Yeah huh. It says thou shalt not kill.

          • TJ Barke

            Unless it’s disobedient children, or guys collecting sticks on the sabbath, or adulterers, or amalekites…

          • UncleTravelingMatt

            I think those exceptions are implied.

          • Thiazin Red

            anyone from conquered tribes who aren’t virgin girls

          • TJ Barke

            The list is pretty long.

          • UncleTravelingMatt

            Look, man, you can’t expect God to anticipate every conceivable eventuality. He’s not omniscient.

          • Celtic_Gnome

            Or people who make fun of your prophet’s baldness…

          • shivaskeeper

            And they have been arguing about the loopholes for that one from day one. Thou shalt not kill, or thou shalt not murder? How about in self defense? Protecting others? War? War if god commands it? On and on and on and on.

        • Thiazin Red

          At one point it even says accidentally killing a fetus is not murder, its only worthy of a modest fine.

    • Villago Delenda Est

      SLUTS MUST BE PUNISHED!

      • Blacktop Autumn

        I think what you’re trying to say is “cherished” but it came out wrong and I read it as “punished.” ;-)

      • theblackdog

        Just remember when it comes to human sacrifice that they never sacrifice the sluts.

        • Villago Delenda Est

          That’s because they need them alive to torment.

  • Bill D. Burger

    GOP to fetus: “We’re here for you. You are the most important thing in the whole, wide world to us. We care. We will fight with all our might to see you born.”

    GOP to baby born: “Get a job moocher. We’re not helping your whore ass mother and you. I hope you two don’t want food stamps or health insurance. You’re on your own….freeloaders.”

  • Rick Hill

    The stooopid…it’s contagious.

    Also, fyi, I’m not going with the high ground, route. All I’m seeing is a steady sliding towards the pit and that’s, ultimately, where nice guys wind up

    • Courser

      I feel like my entire life was a lie. I followed the rules, worked hard always believing that my solid work ethic and integrity were worth something. Turns out they’re worth nothing and I was a fool for believing that it mattered. Sure, things have always been tilted in favor of white, males, money, etc, but plenty of people excelled in spite of it.

      Yeah, that era’s over.

      • Unpresidented Ron

        I watched the incredible film ‘Falling Down’ many years ago. I can’t watch it again – it’s just too bloody harrowing watching a good man who ‘did everything right’ being stripped of everything, including, at the end, his humanity.
        We’re all in danger of becoming William Foster.

        • Wild Cat

          I think a lot of RWNJs adore the film. The uber-white Michael Douglas character does place a lot of blame and bullets into black and brown ‘savages,’ if my memory serves me well. I’m not sure if that was the original intention of the flick, but . . . what do you expect from a culture of neo-nazi idiots who think ‘Born in the USA’ is a pro-US song…

          Fuck them all, the neo-nazis.

          • Unpresidented Ron

            It wasn’t. They see the ‘white guy shoots black guys’ part and miss the ‘white guy gets fucked over by other white guys’ part at the beginning. THAT part hits far too close to home for them, but they’ll never admit it.

          • Shan

            ^^^THIS^^^

        • Courser

          Same here, though yeah, I can’t imagine watching it now. I’ve got Season 11 of NCIS to watch over the holiday weekend, which I think is a better choice.

    • janecita

      Me neither, I’m sorry, but I’m ready to point and laugh.

  • Bitter Scribe

    Some legislators, he suggests, may have only voted for the bill because they knew Kasich would veto it anyway.

    Profiles in Cowardice

    • georgiaburning

      Yes. This way they get to tell their RWNJ constituency that they voted for it even if personally they’re opposed to the idea.

      • Celtic_Gnome

        Back when the Dems had the majority in the state house of representatives and senate in Ohio, the Republicans would routinely vote against raises for elected officials knowing it would pass without their votes so the could tout the fiscal responsibility card to their constituents.

        They joked to their Democratic colleagues thanking them for the raises they voted against.

  • Villago Delenda Est

    “Forced Birthers”, Robyn. BTW, it’s great that we still see your byline around here!

  • Toomush_Inferesistance

    November 8, 2016 – the date Ruth Bader Ginsberg’s anus finally tightened up to nothing forever…

  • schmannity

    Unskew fetal poles!

  • JackLinks

    Whenever someone starts whining about abortions and making them completely illegal, I always ask them the following question:
    How many abortions have you personally stopped by agreeing to adopt?

  • TheGrandWaz00

    Thump thump, thump thump, thump thump. No, that’s not a representation of a fetal heart beat, that’s what the Ohio legislature needs.

    • Villago Delenda Est

      With votes by Louisville Slugger.

      • UncleTravelingMatt

        Probably best to stick with aluminium votes. These assholes seem pretty hard-headed.

      • Marion in Savannah

        Embedded with rusty nails.

      • Celtic_Gnome

        Enthusiasms!

  • FauxAntocles

    We’re living in a nation of psychos.

    • TJ Barke

      Thank the right wing noise machine.

  • boyblue123

    Sure, why not? Just waste all the taxpayers money fighting bills in court that have next to no chance of passing

    • TJ Barke

      Well duh, fiscal responsibility.

    • haroldpp

      Actually, the Big Plan is to take one of these bills to the SCOTUS once the pro-forced birth appointment(s) take seat and get Roe overturned. So there is method to the vile madness. And bonus to just seeing how much they can get away with.

  • BosGrl

    How about this, you anti-choice assholes: Figure out a way to keep our LIVING children from dying of fatal doses of “heroin” (i.e., Fentanyl and whatever other poison they can stick into an addict’s needle. Find the dealers who hang out outside rehab, waiting for the newly-clean to get released and offering them a taste for free (I just heard about this one neat trick). Put some of your money towards locking these people up because THEY are real murderers, not women choosing whether or not to be pregnant. Why don’t you put your outrage there?

    • Good_Gawd_Yall

      BosGrl, how you doing? I’m sending you a hug {{{{{{{{{}}}}}}}} and glad to see you back.

      • BosGrl

        Thank you GGY! Anticipating the holiday. Getting through minute to minute. Hope you have a nice weekend.

        • Shan

          Hey, lady. My boy had his 20th yesterday and I thought of you. He annoys the shit out of me but I’m still glad he’s here, all in all.

          (((hugs)))

  • Unpresidented Ron

    That photo confuses me. Is John ‘only moderately insane’ Kasich signalling a touchdown?

    • UncleTravelingMatt

      “My ego is thiiiiis big.”

    • Wild Cat

      No. It’s how big he thinks Jesus’ dick is.

      • There was once a school of thought in the Vatican that proposed that the rings of Saturn were Jesus’ foreskin

    • boyblue123

      Hes showing how big of a turd he is

    • janecita

      “I caught a fish this BIG, but it got away.”

  • Wild Cat

    I sure do hope that when all these feti are born they can pole dance, because there sure won’t be any decent factory or mining jobs around for the little buggers.

  • Ezio Auditore

    Republicans are pro-life…except when the baby is actually born and then gets bounced around from foster home to foster home and lives a life of poverty.

    • TJ Barke

      Well that’ll show it for letting its parents bone without the intent of having a child!!!

    • janecita

      They aren’t “pro-life”, they are pro-forced birth.

      • haroldpp

        YES. Thank you.

    • UncleTravelingMatt

      If babbies have metaphorical bootstraps, they have every advantage your average self-made conservative had.

    • Courser

      And then gets thrown into the private prison system that we all have to fucking pay for.

  • SayItWithWookies

    So the Ohio legislature passed a ridiculous anti-abortion bill knowing it was going to die. Now they’re probably going to sell off the parts for profit, the sick creeps.

  • ibwilliamsi

    Wealthy women and their daughters in Ohio should not have to travel to another state for their abortions. That’s for takers.

    • Martini Ambassador

      I suspect wealthy ladies will always have secret and convenient options. Thank goodness, we wouldn’t want out betters to be inconvenienced!

      • Zippy W Pinhead

        Wealthy women have D&C’s

      • ibwilliamsi

        They always have, and they always will.

    • An Outhouse for the Resistance

      Let’s see – we have an excuse to go to Sweden or to visit downtown Cleveland. Which you going to choose?

  • Bill Slider

    Have any of these dudes and dudettes who want to stop abortions considered the fact that a more realistic goal just might be to reduce unwanted pregnancies, aka sound birth control options? Eliminating legal abortions, when people want or need them, does not reduce them. It only changes what they need to do to have one. The answer is better reproductive health education. A full professor in a college class I attended on ethics began the first day of class with you cannot legislate morality. The course was taught in the School of Religion, not political science.

    • TJ Barke

      What are you? A communist?!?!

    • Courser

      I’ve been trying to tell people that you can’t legislate morality since the 80’s when the ‘Religious Right’ began all their bullshit with being ‘born again’ crap. That will *never* fucking stop the Rethugs from doing their damndest.

      • Kellynsmith

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    • boyblue123

      Most religious nutjob birth control education probably consists of abstinence before marriage only.

      • Clyde Barrow

        Worked real well for the Palins.

        • snark-lurker

          and the duggers

      • shivaskeeper

        Yup. Sex is a sin. Unless it’s sex between a husband and wife when it’s suddenly not a sin anymore.

        • Querolous

          But only if said couple get married in my church. All the rest are heathen.

        • Celtic_Gnome

          All those kids raised to believe sex is a sin have a lot of trouble when they get married. The marriage ceremony doesn’t come with a switch that flips sex from sinful to acceptable.

          When they’re single, they have support groups to keep the celibate, but, once they get married, they have no one to talk to, because married couples are supposed to work these things out for themselves and not involve outsiders in their marriages.

          • shivaskeeper

            And the bible belt and the fundygelicals have the highest divorce rates. I’m sure there is no causation there though.

    • Saxo the Grammarian

      Rationality? We don’t need no steenking rationality!

    • shivaskeeper

      I have been saying you can’t legislate morality for years. It won’t stop them from trying though.

      They have considered all the options you mentioned, but none of them punish a woman for having sex, so they are right out.

      • Spotts1701, Resistance Pilot

        Exactly – I don’t ever hear of any pro-forced birth people demanding that doctors stop performing vasectomies. It’s only the woman who get their medical options restricted.

        • shivaskeeper

          Aside from the punishing women, which is a pretty big aside, I said down thread hey can’t even agree on thou shall not kill/though shall not murder. If they can’t agree on the morality of something as basic and unambiguous as that it doesn’t bode well for anything else they can come up with.

          • snark-lurker

            you can’t finger these people out, they lack cogence

    • Good_Gawd_Yall

      They don’t want anyone to enjoy sex. I guess their thought process, such as it is, runs along the lines of “If we make it impossible to get birth control or an abortion, people won’t have sex because they’ll fear pregnancy.” Which is winning? I guess?

      • So, you’re saying that they’re in the pocket of Big Anal?

      • Rags

        Since all of their behavior is predicated on fear, it’s not surprising that they lean this way here as well.

    • Villago Delenda Est

      The fact that they want to go after Griswold too indicates that contraception itself is what they want to ban, because forcing the birth of an unwanted child is just more punishment for the slut who spread her legs.

      • shivaskeeper

        Exactly right. Unfortunately. Some of them don’t even try to hide that contraception is the end goal they want banned.

    • Another method to reduce abortions is to ensure that parenthood is not a crippling financial burden on those least able to manage it. Long legislated parental leave, cheap and available day care, health insurance that doesn’t rely on employment. You know – socialism.

    • Rouge Skwerl!

      That’s dangerous talk you are spouting there. Reduce unwanted pregnancies sounds like more free stuff to the Blah.. poors!

    • Scrofula

      No, cause as Rush pointed out, only sluts use birth control.
      Trump voters know you’re supposed to get knocked up in the cab of an old F150 against your will, feel great shame, get shotgun married at 16 before you start showing, get a second husband by 22 after the first goes to prison for meth, have several more babies like Jesus wants, collect EBT and WIC (those aren’t called welfare), and scream and holler about poor black women in inner cities who are welfare queens driving Cadillacs, vote for a populist shitball to make your life great again.

      EDIT: goddammit, where’d my compassion go? These voters are truly ruining everything.

    • puredog

      Bless you Bill, you special snowflake. No, no they have not considered this, AND THEY NEVER WILL.

    • Rick Hill

      They equate BC with abortion. It all boils down to controlling the lives of women

    • mailman27

      If abortions were outlawed tomorrow, I don’t think these folks would roll up their tents and go home. The next issue would be the murderous sin of “pre-bortion,” and the millions of unborn babies that would have been born if not for contraception. If you accept the definition of “baby” or “life” or “murder” in the previous battle against abortion, you’ve already blurred things to the point where you can slide that definition up or down the scale anywhere you need it.
      tl;dr It never stops.

    • Snopes Shop

      They don’t want to stop abortions. They don’t care. They want something to shriek about.

  • haroldpp
  • Mavenmaven
    • TJ Barke

      You can’t lose what you’ve never had…

    • Beowoof14

      None of the celebrities want anything to do with this asshole.

    • 333tenant

      I don’t even like A-listers! I prefer B-listers!

      • Bub the Hoohah! loving Zombie

        Donnie gets B-listers from ill-fitting shoes. Sad. Weak!

      • Rouge Skwerl!

        If Kurt Russell doesn’t play at my coronation I will be pissed.

    • Spotts1701, Resistance Pilot

      Objection! Assumes he ever had it in the first place!

    • Vincent Ricola

      I really thought this was one of those jokey Trump meme tweets that all the kids are doing nowadays.

      He’s off the deep end, there’s waaaaay too much holiday snow in his chimney.

      • Snopes Shop

        I never know the difference.

    • Clyde Barrow
      • Villago Delenda Est

        Vanilla Ice? Z list, not A list, fuckwit.

      • Reality Kills

        Tila is good looks. That’s it.

        • Rouge Skwerl!

          She’s got fake tits, so that’s A-list in Trump’s book.

          • Reality Kills

            He said once a woman can never be a 10 if she doesn’t have boobs.

        • Lesser Tiffany

          She’s a pretty little immigrant Nazi

      • TJ Barke

        That’s a joke right?

        • (Major_Major_Major)ly+Fucked

          That’s one of the parody handles. The real DJT couldn’t land V-Ice

      • Courser

        I’m sure there will be loads of ‘tix left’.

      • John Resistant Tovarich Smith

        I have to say, with these 4 attending and performing, I agree there are plenty of ticks left. If you know what I mean.

        • phoenix00

          So many bloodsuckers…..

      • He should check with Pat Boone. I bet he’s available.

        • Shan

          HAHAHAHAHA!!!

      • H0mer0

        [I don’t think I’d be bragging about that line up of “talent.”]

      • Snopes Shop

        I literally never know if these are fake or not.

    • Villago Delenda Est

      “Fuck you” to invitations does not sound much like “wanting tixs” to me, but then I’m not a tiny-fingered, cheeto-faced, ferret-wearing shitgibbon.

    • Nobody wants to go to your goddamn shitfest, turdburgler. The goddamn voices in your head are not celebrities, A-list or otherwise.

    • Scrofula

      This guy’s whargarblegarble manages to contradict itself, tell three lies, and reveal enormous insecurity in 140 characters. Gotta me some fucking record.

  • An Outhouse for the Resistance

    It sounds like they enjoy watching balls dropping. Must be a tea partier.

  • Bub the Hoohah! loving Zombie

    Something about that picture makes me really want to kick John Kasich right in the balls. (with votes)

  • Reality Kills

    They are going to find out later that Donald is suffering dementia. Just like Reagan’s A’s.

    • dshwa

      Reagan at least had Nancy and some competent advisors around him. Who’s gonna keep Trump contained?

      • Reality Kills

        Nobody. Donald probably has an imaginary friend.

        • Scrofula

          The Hamburger Helper Hand, yooge hand.

        • Celtic_Gnome

          Nobody cares about Donald. They only care about what they can get out of being around him.

        • kbbaldwin2

          Somehow I have trouble seeing even an imaginary friend liking Donald.

      • georgiaburning

        Putin?

      • The Wanderer

        Mr. Hat?

  • Martini Ambassador

    A little OT nice time. I just got an email holiday card from my senator. Love this lady, even though she failed to say the magic words “Merry Christmas” and now the wingnuts will have another sad.
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/01e35c17381ea8015213424dd014c366ac00f289f9909388b47af9008ebc2f6d.png

  • The Wanderer

    (wanders onto the site, taking a break from Xmas cooking endeavors)
    (looks at the article)
    (wanders off to make the apple pie rustica and the Sachertorte)

    • snark-lurker

      wut wuz your address again?…

      • The Wanderer

        “No fixed abode-a-wee,” London, UK, WCFields.

  • Scrofula

    If you’ve ever done the chicken embryo-in-a-dish thing in school, you’ve seen the heart “beating” in what isn’t remotely a chicken yet:
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/108612e8a5d98f2744ba49924b6cac2013fd662d91b5ab45c455758fb28c3874.jpg
    Look at all that vascular tissue feeding such an adorable baby chick, and not at all a vague curlicue of differentiating cells.

    • The Wanderer

      That is one bloodshot eye.

      • puredog

        My eye some eight days hence.

    • Ghenghis McCann

      Why has this not been banned? That egg will never grow up to be a portion of Chicken McNuggets.

      • Scrofula

        No chickens do.

  • Lesser Tiffany

    I find petting very sweet golden retrievers is a good way to relieve the rage today. I have DOG OFFICE!

  • snark-lurker

    sumbuddy haz said the only reason the rite wants to control abortion, b/c etc is because that iz sumthing they don’t have control over womenz and theyz control freeks over womenz. no other reason holds wa-wa

    • OneWhiteWhisker

      diz be da troof

  • Bureaucrap

    They’re just waiting for Justices Eric and Donald Jr. to be duly appointed, after going through rigorous Senate hearings.

  • Shan

    Conservatives like to set people up for failure in life. That’s all this type of thing is about. I don’t really believe in the “controlling women” aspect of it and calling them “pro-life” is just insulting. EVERYONE is pro-life, ultimately.

    Maybe that motivates SOME politicians (and busybody assholes) but always look at the ultimate effect. Banning abortion is GREAT for ruining hundreds of thousands of lives a year. Force people to have children they’re not ready to support or punish them by forcing them to risk their health/lives or jail time having an illegal abortion in order to avoid giving birth.

    • masked mumbler

      Exactly. These people are all about creating downward social mobility, it informs every single aspect of their politics.

    • mancityRed6

      “pro life” sounds a lot better than “anti choice”

      • Shan

        That’s why they prefer the term even though it’s not really accurate. It makes the “opposite” side sound like they’re “anti life” which isn’t any more true.

      • whitroth

        Anti-woman and anti-child is more like it. They’ve *never* been pro-birth control, or tax dollars for medical care, or schools, or, for that fucking matter, pro-WIC. (My late wife was on that for a while, before we met.)

        • mancityRed6

          these are the same people who equate birth control as holding an aspirin between the female’s knees.
          you just can’t reason with stupid

          • Shan

            Some of them equate certain types of birth control to being an actual ABORTION. Because they believe (despite science) that it functions by preventing a fertilized egg from implanting.

            Yes, these fuckwits believe the “right to life” begins the moment the sperm meets the egg. And that’s the exact moment a pregnant person – who is already demonstrably alive and has legal rights – doesn’t get to HAVE all of them any more.

            Because PRO-LIFE!!!1!!

    • Vagenda and Tiara

      Weird that people who are allegedly “pro life” are usually the same people who are cheerleading for the death penalty and war. Weird how that works.

  • puredog

    “’We may have to watch the ball drop from the House floor,’ he added.”
    This genuinely brought a tear to my eye.
    Or, alternatively: Fuck you, you fucking asshole.

  • Panika MCD

    I have similar faith in legislators at Mann does. but remember the optics. he knows there are legislators out there that voted for the bill based on optics, not belief in the need for it. during the SWTW protests in 2013, we knew that there were about 35 votes in the House and 2-3 in the Senate who thought our HB2 was horseshit and told people, “we can vote against it and explain the people’s filibuster to our constituents, but don’t give our Tea Party whack job primary opponents funded by Michael Quinn Sullivan and the Koch brothers and footage they can use against us, please and thank you!” then one little occufucker named Yatzel decided to yell “HAIL SATAN!” at a bunch of nice people praying which of course went viral and makes a great campaign commercial for a GOP primary–so all but Rep. Sarah Davis (R – AWESOME) were prohibited from voting for it lest their opponents get in and fuck up education funding worse than it already was. so it’s not so much faith in their ability to be human, it’s faith in their ability to understand optics.

  • whitroth

    What I don’t understand is why no one, to my knowledge, has sued to overturn any of the abortion bills anywhere under the First Amendment… since they are clearing trying to make laws to force their version of Christianity ™, which violates church and state.

    Btw, it’s Christian – even Orthodox Jews are ok with abortion, and I was told this 20+ years ago by a Hassidic Rabbi.

    • Jennifer R

      About 40% of our judges believe that their version of Christianity *should* be inflicted on everyone.

      • whitroth

        My now std. answer: Article 11, Treaty of Tripoli, 1797 (and, by the Constitution, treaties have the force of law), “As we are in no wise a Christian nation”

        • Jennifer R

          People usually try to quote the boiler plate ship’s papers that we used in the early 1800s as a counter, even when presented with the facts that the exact wording on the ship’s papers were dictated to us by Denmark because they were the only navel power willing to grace us with protection and *they* required pro christain wording for their navel protection.

        • sgt. jmk of the résistance

          Remind them that the Treaty of Tripoli – that clearly states “As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion” – was the first treaty ever ratified by the United States, that it was initiated by George Washington, was ratified unanimously by a Senate in which was still serving a signer of the Declaration of Independence and three delegates to the Constitutional Convention, was signed by a president (John Adams) who helped draft the Declaration of Independence…and was with a Muslim country.

    • Vagenda and Tiara

      There is literally not a single passage in the Bible about abortion. The one the religious nuts quote the most often is a passage that they only quote half of it, because if they quoted the whole passage, it shoots their “pro life” argument down pretty quickly. The full passage basically says “if your life is worth saving, I’ll save you.”

      • whitroth

        I was told by that Rabbi that there’s something in the OT where a woman is hurt? killed? and was pregnant, and it’s something like a blood fine for her, but a minor property fee for the fetus.

        • Vagenda and Tiara

          I’m not sure what passage that is.

          • sgt. jmk of the résistance

            It’s Exodus 21:18-25
            “18 And if men strive together, and one smite another with a stone, or with his fist, and he die not, but keepeth his bed:

            19 If he rise again, and walk abroad upon his staff, then shall he that smote him be quit: only he shall pay for the loss of his time, and shall cause him to be thoroughly healed.

            20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.

            21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.

            22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman’s husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

            23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

            24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

            25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.”

          • Vagenda and Tiara

            Am I misreading this? It doesn’t sound terribly “pro life” to me. It sounds more like “if you hit people, you’re going to have to pay a fine, including if you hit a pregnant woman.” According to the GOP, there are a gazillion passages in the Bible, all condemning abortion as a mortal sin.

          • sgt. jmk of the résistance

            That’s exactly what it is – if you are fighting with a man and you hit a bystanding pregnant woman hard enough to cause her to miscarry, you pay a fine, as for any other possession you might damage.

            There are seriously NO anti-abortion passages in the Bible…the only one they can actually point to is the one in which, as the story goes, Gawd says “before you were born, I knew you,” which they claim means that life begins at conception. Seriously – that’s it. It’s insane.

          • Vagenda and Tiara

            You know what’s funny about that “I knew you before you were born” passage? If you read the whole thing, God talks about “I’ll save you if you’re a prophet.” I’m paraphrasing, but there’s a reason the RWNJs never post the whole passage, because God is basically saying “if you’re important, I’ll make sure you get borned.” It’s amazing that Republicans and the Catholic Church have made abortion such a hot button issue, when they really have no biblical backing on the matter.

          • sgt. jmk of the résistance

            The only actual backing they have for it is that they don’t like the appliance that provides future men to be in charge of itself.

  • mancityRed6

    I, for one, wasn’t ready to be a dad.
    I had a decent job, and I was actually about as mature as I am now, some 20 years on.
    I left it up to her, and I told her that I would support her decision no matter what.
    She wasn’t ready to be a mom.
    To say that there aren’t any regrets or remorse is just plain wrong.

    • Shan

      Who is saying you shouldn’t have regrets or remorse?

      • mancityRed6

        all those people who think it was done for “convenience”
        it wasn’t an easy decision.

        • Shan

          Grown-up choices aren’t always easy. Making the decision to HAVE a kid isn’t, either. And lots of people have regrets about that. Hell, sometimes *I* do.

          But, yeah. Pregnancy and birth aren’t merely “inconvenient” so it’s facile of anybody to say that abortions are just done for the sake of “convenience”.

          • mancityRed6

            It’s been a sore spot for me for the last 19 years.
            Not something I think about often, but my brain drags it up when I read about stories like this.
            It’s more of a “what if” kind of thing. “how would my life be different?”

          • Shan

            We all have things like that. It’s part of life. That’s one of the reasons the decision shouldn’t be legislated one way or the other.

          • HooverVilles

            Spot on.

  • Jonny On Maui

    I absolutely love these anti-choice forced birth fuckwads. “My morals and ethics are superior to yours and you must do as I say.”

    Bullshit and fuck you fuckwads!

    • Vagenda and Tiara

      I love the Constitution so much, except that part about separation of church and state.

      For any “pro life trolls” this post attracts:
      The first amendment to the US Constitution states “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”

      Oh, and by the way, there are ZERO passages in the Bible about abortion, but you’re all too fucking stupid to ever bother reading the Bible.

      • Kooolest G

        not true, there is one part of the bible that is about abortion, Numbers 5:11 it doesn’t exactly forbid it, more gives the recipe for how to do it

        When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.

        • Shan

          That’s about forcing a woman to have an abortion if she’s supposedly been unfaithful. Not really something pro-choice people advocate, really.

        • Vagenda and Tiara

          Technically, Numbers 5:11 is a test to tell whether a wife has been unfaithful:
          23 “‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial[c] offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.

  • xy

    why doesn’t the GOP just cut to the chase and start mandating chastity belts already?

  • Vagenda and Tiara

    “Speaker Cliff Rosenberger (R., Clarksville) said Wednesday that talks continue about potentially coming back during the week between Christmas and midnight on New Year’s Eve to consider an override of that bill and any other measure the governor might veto in coming days.”

    Cliff Rosenberger needs to take the last train to Clarksville, and then not return.

  • Celtic_Gnome

    I done sent emails to the appropriate state senators and representatives urging them not to vote for an override of the governor’s veto.

    That just leaves the 20 week bullshit to deal with through the court system.

  • Shawn Renee Ernoehazy

    Stay strong RBG! We all need you to provide your considerable wisdom to the SCOTUS now, and for at least 4 more years!

    • sgt. jmk of the résistance

      Some dipshit on FB posted some “breaking news” that RGB was retiring – fake news site claimed that because RGB said in an interview in July that she didn’t want Drumpf to win, that means she HAS to retire now.

      I cannot even..

  • David Chaillou

    France puts the limit at 12 weeks (=US 16 weeks as we measure from first skipped period instead of last effective period) unless there’s a diagnosis of foetus illness or threat to mother’s health, and everyone seems to think it works. This said, we have much better medical coverage so pregnant women almost always consult early.

    The current 24-26 seems very late, it corresponds to a stage where .ca. 50% of prematures will survive with modern medical care. I am not sure I understand either the need or justification.

    • JohnE_o

      Because women should have autonomy over their bodies, maybe?

      • David Chaillou

        Ok, but what is the point of waiting until the baby is (almost) viable ?

        • Brendan_M

          What is the point of waiting? Do you think women commonly wait to have an abortion out of indecision or laziness? Since the Christian Right shifted their political organizing from pro-segregation efforts to misogynistic and punitive anti-choice efforts, they’ve put up as many impediments in the way of women exercising their Constitutionally-protected right to control their bodies. This makes it more time-consuming, expensive, and difficult; these are delays. And many significant problems with pregnancies are not detectable until late in the pregnancy.

          Ohio Republicans are fine with telling a woman in her third trimester who just discovered her baby would be born with its organs on the outside and would die within minutes that “it’s a child, not a choice” (re: fuck off, slut), but I choose to have compassion for people over fetuses.

          • David Chaillou

            I understand, but that is exactly my question: a late deadline is easily justifiable for special cases (risk to the mother, diagnosis of malformations, arguably also for underage pregnancies and when the mother is not equipped to form an adult decision) but it is equally hard to justify in “normal” cases.

            So wouldn’t it be easier to achieve an acceptable compromise for both sides by using a two-pronged approach: a shorter deadline e.g. 16-20 weeks as a general rule, with extensions or exemptions for the special cases ?

          • Brendan_M

            I oppose those restrictions, but regardless, your approach to the issue misses the point completely. There is no reasonable compromise to be had that protects all parties involved and pleases most people. Anti-choice Republicans are not acting in good-faith. Their goal isn’t strictly to reduce abortions, it is to regulate sex and women’s bodies. They would support comprehensive sex education and access to contraception if they did. Republicans don’t really care about mothers and their children. They wouldn’t be in a constant effort to strip them of social programs and healthcare if they did.

            Colorado was able dramatically-reduce teen (re: unwanted) pregnancies by offering free birth control, IUDs, to poor teenaged girls. A 40% drop in pregnancies with a corresponding 42% drop in abortions. Guess who opposes this abortion-reducing program?

            There is no compromise with anti-choicers. We either win or we lose.

        • KinglyCitrus

          Virtually no one decides to have a late-term abortion for fun, or because they just changed their minds after 6-8 months of being pregnant. Late term abortions happen because of horrific complications or birth defects that are discovered late in the pregnancy. Some conditions which are threatening to the life of the mother or will result in a short, painful life for the child are typically discovered around the 20 week mark.

          • David Chaillou

            Ok. This is covered in French law with a waiver for cases where either the mother’s health is at risk or there is a diagnosis of serious malformations. Rather than simply extending the deadline for everybody.

          • sgt. jmk of the résistance

            “Rather than simply extending the deadline for everybody.”

            Seriously? Why not just have an extended deadline and leave it up to the woman and her doctor to decide?

          • David Chaillou

            Because it’s hard to justify a late abortion deadline that corresponds to a point in time where the baby is viable enough to have a serious chance of surviving premature birth, unless there are special circumstances.

            My point being that here in France there is very little acrimony on either side of the debate, which suggests that we have a satisfactory middle ground (in addition to the fact that our political spectrum is less polarized).

          • sgt. jmk of the résistance

            Viability is still 24 weeks. Abortions performed at or near viability are invariably performed for medical necessity. The decision is still the woman’s, in consultation with her doctor. There’s no need for an outside limit, since the result is the same regardless.

          • David Chaillou

            I don’t understand. Abortions near the viability threshold are not restricted by any “special circumstances” clause, but it just happens that they never occur outside of these “special circumstances” cases anyway ? Given human nature I find that a bit hard to believe.

          • sgt. jmk of the résistance

            Slightly more than 1% of abortions are performed at or near viability, and yes, they are almost invariably performed for medical reasons. You don’t have to believe it – the statistics reflect that.

            https://www.guttmacher.org/fact-sheet/induced-abortion-united-states

            My issue is with the idea of a government official graciously granting a woman permission to save her own life. Better to trust women and leave the decision to them and their doctors.

          • David Chaillou

            Speaking for France I don’t believe any government official would be involved in the “decision”once a doctor had said yes. Unless it was a non medical exception e.g. teen pregnancy, violent husband… in which case I would welcome involvement from our (imperfect, but mostly well-intended) social protection agencies.

          • sgt. jmk of the résistance

            It’s the difference in the overall philosophy behind the restrictions that I have a problem with.

  • Zyxomma

    Head to desk.

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