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The devil we guess.
The devil we guess.

One of the very dumbest “HILLARY IS THE DEVIL!” conspiracies going around this week has idiots like Walker Bragman and assorted wingnuts losing it over some words plucked from a leaked email (hacked by the Russians and released by their yappy yet loyal dachshunds at Wikileaks), a quote Hillary Clinton gave during a speech to the National Multi-Housing Council in 2013. Because the right-wing/Jill Stein sections of the internet are nothing if not honest and level-headed, and because they love context and nuance so much, all most people have heard about the email is that Hillary said you have to have a “public” and a “private” position on issues, which means DEMON HILLGHAZI IS LYING AGAIN, INPEACH!!!!!1!!111!

Hell, even debate moderator Martha Raddatz screwed the pooch when she asked Hillary about it during Sunday night’s presidential debate:

RADDATZ: This next question from the public through the Bipartisan Open Debate Coalition’s online forum, where Americans submitted questions that generated millions of votes. This question involves WikiLeaks’ release of purported excerpts of Secretary Clinton’s paid speeches, which she has refused to release, and one line in particular, in which you, Secretary Clinton, purportedly say you need both a public and private position on certain issues. So, Tu (ph), from Virginia asks, is it OK for politicians to be two-faced? Is it acceptable for a politician to have a private stance on issues?

OK, so maybe it was some idiot out there who came up with the question, but Raddatz and Anderson Cooper could have decided it was a shitty question and tossed it.

In her answer, Hillary did that annoying thing where she tries to actually explain a thing at a grown-up level, and it’s just too many words for the average Cheeto-freebasing American to understand:

CLINTON: As I recall, that was something I said about Abraham Lincoln after having seen the wonderful Steven Spielberg movie called “Lincoln.” It was a master class watching President Lincoln get the Congress to approve the 13th Amendment. It was principled, and it was strategic.

And I was making the point that it is hard sometimes to get the Congress to do what you want to do and you have to keep working at it. And, yes, President Lincoln was trying to convince some people, he used some arguments, convincing other people, he used other arguments. That was a great — I thought a great display of presidential leadership.

She then said it’s kind of alarming we’re letting Russian hackers influence our election with these leaks, especially since it’s so obvious they’re doing it because they want the Idiot Trump to be president. A Trump presidency would diminish American power in the world, and that is a #win for the Kremlin.

But we were already off to the Hillary-hatin’ races. Donald Trump blustered around like “LOL ABRAHAM LINCOLN YEAH RIGHT OK LIKE THAT IS EVEN A PERSON” and added that the difference between Honest Abe and Crooked Lying Hillary is that Honest Abe wasn’t a Crooked Lying Liar like Hillary.

After the debate, possibly senile Rudy Giuliani crowed about Hillary’s answer, saying she is a big liar because HE SEEN THE TRANSCRIPT and it wasn’t about Abraham Lincoln at all!

Well. Bad news for Rudy Giuliani, Donald Trump, the “alt-right,” the Hillary-hatin’ left and their Russian handlers. Here’s the full transcript. Surprise, it’s exactly what Hillary said it was during the debate:

*CLINTON SAYS YOU NEED TO HAVE A PRIVATE AND PUBLIC POSITION ON POLICY* *Clinton: “But If Everybody’s Watching, You Know, All Of The Back Room Discussions And The Deals, You Know, Then People Get A Little Nervous, To Say The Least. So, You Need Both A Public And A Private Position.”* CLINTON: You just have to sort of figure out how to — getting back to that word, “balance” — how to balance the public and the private efforts that are necessary to be successful, politically, and that’s not just a comment about today. That, I think, has probably been true for all of our history, and if you saw the Spielberg movie, Lincoln, and how he was maneuvering and working to get the 13th Amendment passed, and he called one of my favorite predecessors, Secretary Seward, who had been the governor and senator from New York, ran against Lincoln for president, and he told Seward, I need your help to get this done. And Seward called some of his lobbyist friends who knew how to make a deal, and they just kept going at it. I mean, politics is like sausage being made. It is unsavory, and it always has been that way, but we usually end up where we need to be. But if everybody’s watching, you know, all of the back room discussions and the deals, you know, then people get a little nervous, to say the least. So, you need both a public and a private position. And finally, I think — I believe in evidence-based decision making. I want to know what the facts are. I mean, it’s like when you guys go into some kind of a deal, you know, are you going to do that development or not, are you going to do that renovation or not, you know, you look at the numbers. You try to figure out what’s going to work and what’s not going to work. [Clinton Speech For National Multi-Housing Council, 4/24/13]

OMGHAZI!!!!!11111!!!11111111111!!!! LOCK HER UP! LOCK HER UP! LOCK HER …

Yeah. If you’re freaking out about this, if that Hillary quote is somehow shocking to you, then newsflash, babydolls: THAT’S HOW POLITICS WORKS. It’s not always pretty, but it’s the reality of how things get done.

If you didn’t know that before, great, now you know!

If you did know, but you’re so blinded by Hillary hate that you refuse to share your knowing with the world, fuck you.

[Quartz]

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  • Callyson
    • Astraea

      Even in super idealistic The West Wing they recognized that this is how politics works.

      • SterWonk

        I remember an early episode about just this issue. I can’t find the quote, but it involved getting a small number of Ds, Rs, and the president — who would not get a vote — in a room, having them hash it out in private, and presenting the final result. That way no one person would have to take the blame, and no one person could claim credit.

    • Oblios_Cap

      But does she smell like sulfur? I’m guessing not.

      • Oily Messiah

        Only after bean burrito day in the white house kitchen

  • SmokinGood

    I am 12 and what is this?

    • Blacktop Cadence

      Grown people learning that life is about compromises and mitigated expectations.

  • The Witch of Endor

    I wish I could remember where I heard/read this but I’m through calling Wikileaks Wikileaks and am committed for all enternity to calling them Wikisnitch.

    • FauxAntocles

      WikiPutinsLapDog?

  • FauxAntocles

    And this is why she is the nominee – she doesn’t just converse with one slice of the electorate, she converses with all of them (as much as she can) and those conversations don’t all sound alike.

    • beingreleased

      As long as she isn’t contradicting herself ala Mitt Romney.

      • Lark_in_the_AM

        Which she isn’t. :-)

      • Astraea

        When she was asked about it, she was consistent and didn’t try to lie about what she said even though that might have been easier in the moment.

    • Astraea

      She has more than soundbites.

      • Lascauxcaveman

        Although any soundbite that starts out with, “Here’s something I learned from Abraham Lincoln…” is a pretty good soundbite. Especially if it’s both true and to the point.

    • laughingnome

      It’s like Shakespeare wrote his plays for different audiences.

      • Blank Ron, Avenger of Ponies

        That’s why no-one trusts Crooked Shakespeare.

  • Astraea

    THANK YOU EVAN HURST

    • OddMan

      I must agree.
      Thanks for being you, Evan.

    • The DeplorableDemmeVagenda

      Always.

  • Shibusa

    Remember the old saying: Laws are like sausages — it is best not to see them being made.

    • And its corollary: opinions are like assholes….

      • OddMan

        I read that as “Onions are like assholes” and wondered how that worked.
        Need more coffee.

  • ArgieBargie

    So you all know, I only do my positions in private.

    • FauxAntocles

      If only Turnip would…

  • Oily Messiah

    Wonkette is obviously in the bag for Shillary, printing her exact words like that. Everyone knows its not what she says or does, its all the sekrit evil plans in her brain that make her a evil, globalist e-mail witch.

    • arglebargle

      Not only do they use Hillary’s words to confirm what she is saying, THEY DO THE SAME WITH TRUMP!!!!1!

    • OddMan

      Alex Jones backs you up, he says Ms. Clinton is literally a demon, smelling of sulfur, making people around her sick, and covered with flies.

    • aureolaborealis

      Corrollary: Wonkette is clearly biased against Ol Punkin Top, because it prints his exact words like that.

      • Good_Trouble_Yall

        Ol Punkin Top – I like that! So seasonal, so appropriate

  • Oblios_Cap

    Hmm… It appears to be a nuanced and well-reasoned argument that she’s making. No wonder the howler monkeys can’t understand it.

    • Oily Messiah

      Nuance is the gateway drug to compromise. #puritypolitics

      • Blank Ron, Avenger of Ponies

        And next thing you know you’re mainlining bipartisanship.

    • beingreleased

      It’s a slippery slope from a well-reasoned argument to drawing intelligent conclusions.

  • Daisy

    Yeah, that’s politics in a nutshell, and I don’t have any qualms about it. I can’t afford to , as I plan on being involved in them professionally.

    • Blacktop Cadence

      Most can’t, but then you have some of the Bros who say shit like “SCOTUS picks don’t live forever.”

      • Oily Messiah

        Unless they’re RBG *crosses fingers*

        • Celtic_Gnome

          RBG’s getting up there. I think the kindest thing the American people could do for her is elect Hillary Clinton as President with a Democratic Senate so she can finally retire.

  • Carpe Vagenda

    So, laws, like sausages, cease to inspire respect in proportion as we know how they are made? Like people have actually been saying since the 1860s?

    Who was president then, exactly?

    • Thiazin Red

      I sometimes feel like I must be the only person who has not had my feelings about sausage changed by seeing the process.

      • Blank Ron, Avenger of Ponies

        When I was around 8 or 9 I was taken on a tour of the old Shopsy’s wiener plant in Toronto, the one you used to be able to see from the 400. I credit that for my ability not to be grossed out by food preparation.

  • schmannity

    Hillary public position: shoulder shimmy.
    Hillary private position: reverse cowgirl.

    • JHan

      Thanks for ruining my keyboard

  • Scooby

    Did she just admit to being behind the Lincoln assassination ?

    • Lark_in_the_AM

      Darn Obama, lending out his Time Machine like that!

  • FlownOver

    No, dammit! I demand ideological purity. If you don’t agree with me for the right reasons, fuck off. And I want a pony for the weekends!

    • Blacktop Cadence

      Will you settle for a pot bellied pig with a carrot on a stick?

      • FlownOver

        Sounds like some Iowa State Fair snack.

        Oh, wait… only the carrot is on the stick? Then maybe.

      • Lascauxcaveman

        Just bring me legal weed and don’t ask me what a leppo is, ‘K?

        • James Christopher Owen

          Isn’t a leppo something Jewish people eat?

    • BouncyFlyer

      I don’t know about the ideological purity, but you know Vermin Supreme can get you that pony, stat.

    • AngryKatie

      Unless said ideological purity runs afoul of taking control, in which case I will twist myself into a pretzel to get around it.

  • tihond

    Hillary never wishes me happy birthday on facebook.

    • The Witch of Endor

      That heartless BITCH!!!!

      • LesBontemps

        LOCK HER UP!!!!111!!!1!!1!1!

    • OddMan

      We have a small collections of Christmas cards that Bill and Hillary sent out when he was President. They sent out hundreds of thousands. We also have a couple from the Obamas. We do put them out every Christmas.

      • Gayer Than Thou

        Why did the Clintons send you hundreds of thousands of Christmas cards? That seems excessive.

        • OddMan

          Yeah, our mailbox was really full for months around Christmas. We voted for Bill hundreds of times.

          I might have worded my comment a bit better.

          • James Christopher Owen

            Sunshine patriot. I voted for Bill thousands of times.

  • Lizzietish81

    BUT SHE VOTED FOR THE IRAQ WAR DERP DERP DERP

    • Nounverb911

      And Trump told Howard Stern he approved of the war in Iraq….

      • Oily Messiah

        WRONG!

        • Oily Messiah

          Why won’t someone call Sean Hannity

          • FlownOver

            I can think of a few things to call him.

    • Dr. Rrrrrobotnik

      I mean that *is* an actually legitimate criticism. The stuff above by contrast is just pure Derp.

      • Lascauxcaveman

        I agree. I think the vote on the war is the worst example of Hillary compromising her principles. She knew the intel was bullshit, as outlined a few months before the war in a well researched and timely article by Sy Hersch in the New Yorker. Soooo many others, both R and D, knew it was bullshit too, but also knew they didn’t have the votes to stop it, so they went along in a show of ‘unity.’ And so as to appear ‘patriotic.’

        Thus, the sausage was made.

    • Lark_in_the_AM

      Were there any Republicans who voted against the war? I’m too lazy to come the Congressional Record, but I’m betting that better than 90% of them were in favor, so why is this even being used as a bludgeon? The Shrub admin cooked the intelligence to support the invasion and had they been truthful, I’m guessing that there would have been a lot fewer “yea” votes on BOTH sides of the aisle, so the blame lies with Bush and minions.

    • James Christopher Owen

      Well, why don’t we agree to accept that criticism if we get Republicans to admit that the primary fault amounts to having taken a mendacious, lying Republican President at his word?

  • Lefty Frizzell

    MSM were all like OMG!!! THIS FEEDS THE NARRATIVE!!! and never even CONSIDERED the possibility that there was a reasonable explanation. I doubt that this reasonable explanation will filter through until after 2024. The stupid shits.

  • JHan

    People are just stupid. There I said it, I don’t care if it sounds elitist, PEOPLE ARE DUMB AND DON’T THINK. And the media pushed this dumbness as well – OMG she has a private position and a public one!! OMGAWD. Why the FUCK did this need explaining??

    • SmokinGood

      I am OFFENDED. I am going to split my ticket and then complain about gridlock.

      • JHan

        This is in a fucking nutshell

    • Lefty Frizzell

      Personally I want elites running the country. It’s like having elite athletes in your first team and elite forces fighting your wars.

      Not wanting this smacks of politically correct whiny mediocres demanding participation prizes.

      • JHan

        I feel like mainstream political media needs a collective bitchslap. The stupidity. Whole year.

        • AngryKatie

          Precisely. The only appropriate reaction to the idea of different public and private stances is: well duh.

      • laughingnome

        Cleveland Browns libelz!!!

      • Jennaratrix

        I had to have this talk with my father; I said (months ago, before it was cool) that Trump is temperamentally unfit to serve as president. My dad said, “Oh, that’s just some elitist left-wing bullshit talking point, damn intellectuals, blah blah blah, derp.” I kind of went off; I said I WANT my president to be smart; smarter than I am, even. To his credit, my dad said “but that’s setting a really high bar” (implying that he thinks I’m smart. Hey, I takes my compliments from dear old dad where I can finds ’em). I said, yeah, EXACTLY. When did it become worthy of scorn to be intellectual? To be smart? What’s elitist about getting a fucking education? Why are we promoting the idea that ANYONE can be president? Because that’s why these idiots are voting for Trump; the left over dregs of the “American Dream,” where anyone can do anything and all have access to the same opportunities. We don’t. Not everyone is smart enough or the right kind of person to run the country. And this deluded idea that we can is what is driving people to vote for this garbage – if he can do it, I can, too. It’s a way to avoid looking at their own failed dreams. And I don’t want a failed dream to run my country. If that makes me an elitist, well, there it is.

        • Good_Trouble_Yall

          This is perfect in every way.

          • Jennaratrix

            Too bad it didn’t really make a dent; although my dad hasn’t been calling every weekend for a while now, and I like to think it’s because he realized I’m right about Velveeta Mussolini and doesn’t want to hear “I told you so.”

    • Dr. Rrrrrobotnik

      What pisses me off the most about the whole email “scandal”, dating back even to the primary with Bernouts, is that almost to a man everyone who complains about them has NEVER ACTUALLY READ THEM BECAUSE THEY WERE TOO DAMN LAZY. They’re just regurgitating what other people said that the emails say.

      • JHan

        They just read the Intercept.. The intercept selectively quoting bits and pieces to suit their anti-hillary narratives.

  • bubbuhh

    We all have public and private positions. Some of my private positions are my favoritest.

    • Nounverb911

      Sounds like my Sunday yoga class…

    • btwbfdimho

      There is also the “dishwasher position”, according to the Married Kama Sutra.
      http://cdn77.sadanduseless.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/k1.jpg

      • Arolpin

        You know that’s bullshit and made up, because it’s always the WOMAN who loads the dishwasher wrong.
        (Actually, I am the guy who reads the fucking loading directions that comes with the new dishwasher and has to bite my tongue when my wife loads it in any other (perfectly acceptable) way.)

      • The DeplorableDemmeVagenda

        Mr. Fatale calls me “the Dishwasher Nazi.” (a la “Soup Nazi”)
        My mother-in-law once told me: “Gee, I’ve never seen anyone get as much into the dishwasher as you!”

  • Bub the Leftwing Zombie

    Nothingburger. Akin to the crazies blathering about the direction Kennedy’s head moved when Oswald’s bullet blew his brains out, why the American flag raised on the moon “rippled in the wind”, or the alien corpses at Area 51. Idiots will always be idiots.

    • Lizzietish81

      GOD, one of my coworkers, who I had thought was sane, was talking 9/11 conspiracies.

      • Bub the Leftwing Zombie

        I have cousins in Minneapolis who buy into that horseshit. Great guys, but ffs…

      • AngryKatie

        I had to change hair stylists because I discovered mine thought the moon landing was a set up and 9/11 was an inside job.

      • beingreleased

        My wife (an astrophysicist) was recently in a taxi with a flat-Earth driver. She doesn’t know what got him started on it.

        • pstockholm

          She should have asked him which countries he thinks are on the edge.

      • jesuswasablack

        You work with GOD? Is he a slacker?

  • beatbort

    She smiles too much.

    • Blank Ron, Avenger of Ponies

      Except when she doesn’t smile enough.

  • bubbuhh

    It’s okay. Her bites are more than sound.

  • cmd

    Too many WORDS to figure out CONTEXT, blah blah blah.

    • Oily Messiah

      Intelligent people talking about serious subjects hurts my brain.

      • James Christopher Owen

        If God meant for people to think, He wouldn’t have made it hurt so bad.

    • DainBramage

      If I can’t understand something in 20 seconds or less, it’s not worth knowing.

    • JHan

      Too much nuance and sh*it.

  • JHan

    “Remember kids, Laws are like sausages” – needs to be a new Clinton campaign slogan ASAP.

    • laughingnome

      But you just don’t grab them without asking first.

  • LesBontemps

    tl;dr. INPEACH!!!11!!!!!!111!!

  • Dr. Rrrrrobotnik

    I’ve found the people who find the most to bitch about in her emails, never actually got around to reading them.

    • arglebargle

      Why read when it’s all right there on Fox News?

    • Jennaratrix

      What is “read” and do I have to do it to be a derpy?

    • Carpe Vagenda

      Yeah, that brain-damaged bro at New York wrote a screed about how if Trump wasn’t a MONSTER the Wikileaks dump would be the MOST DEVASTATING THING EVER in the history of disqualifying political scandals. Looking at Rebecca Traister’s tweets, she seems to be losing patience.

  • cousin itt

    Maddow starts a lot of her shows with historical context as well so, Hillary lesbian!

  • DainBramage

    OMG! So when the Lend Lease Act was passed in 1941, it was to help Britain stay afloat against Germany? How nefarious. I bet Roosevelt’s private position was to find any way possible to help the Brits despite official US neutrality.

  • laughingnome

    Seems perfectly reasonable tactics to use to get things done in a real and complex world.

    • DainBramage

      Reasonable = Nefarious

      • pstockholm

        Done by Clinton = Nefarious

    • Villago Delenda Est

      That’s not a world the deplorables live in. Their world is binary and simple. Like their minds.

  • Bub the Leftwing Zombie

    The next politician who tells the public everything that is said behind closed doors when legislation is being written and passed into law will be the first one.

    • TundraGrifter

      And one who gets nothing accomplished.

    • Shantastic

      It’s the same with business. Management doesn’t make all their discussions known company-wide before they release their final “official” decision.

      Jesus Pete.

  • loki_monster

    The people freaking out about this are seriously stupid. What she’s describing is negotiation 101: I go to my opponent and publicly state I’ll settle for $10. Privately, I know I can settle for as much as $100. Maybe my opponent will settle for $20, maybe $50, maybe $80, but I’m sure as hell not required to publicly state HEY DO YOU WANT $100 to my opponent right out of the gate. BOOM: there’s your simple explanation of having “private” and “public” positions, and it should make sense to pretty much anybody.

    • OddMan

      One would think that a “Great Businessman, who knows how to make great deals.” might know this.

      • Kavefish

        So… maybe this explains that billion-dollar sinkhole in ’95?

  • SuspectedDemocrat

    I would have gone with LBJ lying to racist fuckwits in order to pass civil rights legislation, because you can’t just come right out and tell old confederates that you’re going to allow minorities to vote.

  • TundraGrifter

    Just think of it this way:

    Public position? Missionary.

    Private position? Reverse Cowgirl.

    It’s all good.

    • LesBontemps

      Public position: Bill
      Private position: Huma
      Let the fanfic begin. (I’ll be in my bunk.)

  • Mary Sandoras

    Well if you wander out into the blogoshere, the trumpeteers are repetitiously pulling nothing burgers out of their butts. I think it’s called desperation.

  • Vincent Ricola

    Fuck diplomacy and being a politician that does the job they’re hired to do, amirite?

  • btwbfdimho

    I’m sure there was one Lincoln chatting under the tent, and another Lincoln gossiping in the locker room.
    http://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/cwpb/01100/01131v.jpg

    • I wonder what grabbing their lady bits translates to in 1860 america speak

      • Spotts1701

        Probably was a bit more difficult to do with all that flowy fabric in the way.

        • TundraGrifter

          The Tussle under The Bustle?

          • Blank Ron, Avenger of Ponies

            <golf clap>

      • Crank Tango

        Pluck’em by the flower?

      • Msgr_Trump_has_killed_satire

        Grabbin’ ’em by the Buchanans, most likely.

    • Dr. Rrrrrobotnik

      Lincoln: So, you gonna go get those rebels today?
      McClellan: … nope.
      This has been the first year of the Civil War.

      • Anna Elizabeth

        XD Nice.

    • Msgr_Trump_has_killed_satire

      LINCOLN NEEDS TO SIT DOWN!!! HE DOESN’T HAVE THE STAMINA TO WIN THIS WAR!!! YOU LOOK, HE’S NOT GOING TO SURVIVE HIS SECOND TERM!!!

  • JustDon’tSayPu55y

    dachshund libulz!

  • Spotts1701

    It’s great to be an optimist, to go for the “moon shot”. But pragmatism is how things have to get done because our system is specifically designed to be based upon consensus and coalitions.

    “My personal opinion says ‘yes’ but the government policies under which I must weight my decision say ‘no’.” – Gen. Hammond, Stargate SG-1

  • elviouslyqueer

    Well, considering that the vast majority of Americans get their information from Facebook memes, “knowing” is a rare and precious thing indeed.

  • TundraGrifter

    Chump won’t share his secret, foolproof plan to defeat ISIS because you don’t tell the enemy what you’re up to.

    Chump says it is very important to be unpredictable.

    Chump says we were idiots to declare a date we were leaving Iraq. He blames President Obama instead of President Bush, but the principle remains.

    Now, suddenly, this is bad because Sec. Clinton does it?

    • Villago Delenda Est

      Logic, intellectual honesty, integrity.

      Three things Drumpf has no fucking knowledge of

  • Joe Beese

    Just remember the words “public position” the next time Hillary claims she doesn’t support TPP.

    • Get down with TPP yeah you know me…

    • FlownOver

      Congratulations. You’ve reached that legendary dead end.

    • Dr. Rrrrrobotnik

      Thankfully she would still need both parties to sign off on it, when both are now against it. So it doesn’t really matter either way.

      • joebags

        They are against it NOW . Bet you money we’ll be seeing some serious “evolving” on this issue starting November 9th.

    • Zippy W Pinhead

      Just remember the words “public position” the next time Bernie says he doesn’t. Unless you think this is something unique to her as opposed to what all politicians do, in which case I have to ask- were you actually just born yesterday?

  • TeeRaak

    When do we find out about the paternity test results of the Trump Family maid kids?
    http://66.media.tumblr.com/696e6c5546a8c5bc98f59aa636fc49f1/tumblr_nd35tr1CTa1rqfhi2o1_500.gif

  • chascates
    • Thiazin Red

      I’m glad the mainstream press have decided to stop being morons about her emails.

    • Zippy W Pinhead

      was just about to post that

  • IdRatherBeDancing

    Ghouliani claimed to have read the transcript in a post-debate interview
    with Tweety and said she was lying and that she did not want this out because
    of Sanders. Well this was in 2013 and, lo and behold there is Lincoln. Someone was lying, and it was not Mrs. Clinton. I really despise that nasty, lisping ugly fuckstick.

  • onedollarjuana

    Hmm. A family member of mine let his private opinion of his boss slip out at work and he doesn’t work there anymore. Seems like it might have been a good personal policy to keep one’s private thoughts private.

  • freedomisgood

    So Clinton supporters are ok with politicians lying to you, doing back room deals?
    People seem a little short sighted….. Would you be ok with back room deals if this was a Bush administration? Did you think it was ok for Bush to lie to the American people about WMD’s to go into Iraq for political reasons, costing the American tax payer millions, and many American soldiers their lives?

    • Joe Beese

      X supporters are OK with X doing anything.

      True for all values of X.

    • Villago Delenda Est

      Cripes, you’re a moran.

      • freedomisgood

        But yet nobody cares to answer my question? Just name calling and insults…. I guess this is all true Hillary Clinton supporters have?

        • Villago Delenda Est

          Because insults are all lackwits like you deserve

          • freedomisgood

            LOL You are the funniest person here today!!!!!!

          • Villago Delenda Est

            I’m not smiling, douchenozzle.

            Furthermore, do not DARE again use soldiers as a human shield like you did.

        • Taco Treg

          Aw. You tried.

        • Dr. Rrrrrobotnik

          For you? Kinda. We don’t really see the need to educate you or coddle you. Run on back to your safe space.

        • IdRatherBeDancing

          Because your question is naive or should I use an easier word than naive so that you might understand.

    • Anna Elizabeth

      Fuck that Strawman! Fuck him good!

      *blocked*

      • freedomisgood

        What language! You know you sound offensive?

        • Zippy W Pinhead

          And you sound dumber than hell and completely dishonest. Personally, I’ll stick with offensive

        • YoBunnyBunny

          Does she???

      • OddMan

        ♫ ♪”Another one blocks the dust.”♫ ♪

    • AngryKatie

      False equivalency, how does that work again…

    • JHan

      The distinction is political , the context is compromise.
      How do you influence legislators who disagree with you to pass legislation you want passed? I am asking this because I want serious engagement. How would you do it?

      You cannot do it by force – because these legislators represent constituents and “force” in a democracy like ours can take various forms with serious negative implications down the line – so what would be your approach?

      • Erala Contratista

        Read Robert Caro’s LBJ bios, start with#1. Made my hair stand on end, but v. enlightening. I’m about 25% through #3. Need to breathe while reading, tho…

    • Longstreet63

      I suppose if all politicians were reasonable, upright individuals with a commitment to the public good regardless of personal interest, then back room deals would be awful.
      But they ain’t.
      And that’s the way you get things done with them.
      Also known as political compromise.
      The operative point is whether the results give an incremental improvement in public good, or failing that, minimize harm.

      • Juan de Fuca

        Very well stated.

    • Zippy W Pinhead

      Lying? Where did the word lying come from?

      • JHan

        that’s what happens when emails are rinsed in the spin cycle, where they don’t belong.

    • Spotts1701

      Unless you just landed here from Alpha Centauri, this is how politics in a representative democracy works. You either arm-twist or you offer this or that. “If I support your trade bill, can you help push my energy bill out of your committee?” “I need to take a stance against this or my supporters will turn on me, but if you need my vote I will need ‘cover’.” “If you want that new highway built in your district, you need to support this bill.”
      It would be nice if politicians did things because they were the right thing to do. But that ain’t how it gets done.

    • doktorzoom

      You know, someone whose comment history includes a fondness for conspiracy theories about the CIA running guns from Benghazi to ISIS just doesn’t strike us as a good fit here. Please allow me to show you the door.

      — Dok Zoom, Yr Friendly Neighborhood Comments Moderator

  • YoBunnyBunny

    Sooooo… After how many millennia of men ruling things all the world over, and it was Hillary that invented the Public/Private dual political persona??? Damn, Hillz!!!! You just be learnin’ these boys new something everyday!!!! Well, I learn something new everyday in this election.

    In the words of Samantha Bee: Oh, go fuck yourself.

    • JHan

      Take all the fucking upvotes. Tell me that this election wasn’t meant to be Hillary vs the Worst of macho culture. Bernie couldn’t be in this match up, it had to be Hillz. Let the bullshit all be exposed.

      • Dr. Rrrrrobotnik

        If anything, this election has been the perfect and necessary deconstruction of the idea of Man as the Reasonable, Unemotional Neutral Arbiter of Right and Wrong. We didn’t even really need the conversation about the first woman president because her male opponent is so patently unqualified.

    • LesBontemps

      Sam Bee has a knack for getting right to the point.

  • Bub the Leftwing Zombie

    To those politicians who deplore Hillary’s “secretiveness”, or want to make political hay from this, I have a simple suggestion. Televise all caucus meetings. Have cameras and microphones in every cloakroom and meeting area in the Capitol. In fact, all lawmakers must wear body cameras so their constituents can see and hear exactly how their public rhetoric matches up with their private conversations. Deal?

    • JustDon’tSayPu55y

      I take it you read “The Circle”?

      • Bub the Leftwing Zombie

        Actually, no. I think I’ve heard the title, but I don’t know what it’s about.

        I can guess now though…

        • JustDon’tSayPu55y

          Very dystopian. I kinda hated people for a few hours after I read the last chapter. But Eggers can do that sometimes, so I snapped out of it.

  • jesuswasablack
    • Anna Elizabeth

      “Taking a trump”.

      • data_ninja

        And yet he looks constiputined.

    • Msgr_Trump_has_killed_satire

      Trump has a private position, too! On his knees with Putin’s privates in his anus-shaped mouth hole.

    • pstockholm

      So, boxers. Glad that’s settled at least.

  • Villago Delenda Est

    This is what you call nuance. This is what you call statecraft. This is how you negotiate with people to accomplish things.

    This is what grownups do.

    Yes, that line is addressed to every last fucking deplorable on the Trump Train.

    • IdRatherBeDancing

      Just imagine what Trump’s private positions are. Er, no don’t.

  • DoILookAmused2u ?

    Would like to point out that Rudy Giuliani and Trump and his other surrogates lied about the Lincoln reference and lied about this being a speech to Wall St banks and lied about it being about Bernie Sanders (and the year 2013 should have been a red flag there).

    • Villago Delenda Est

      Of course they did.

      It’s what the very sorry micro-dicked asswipes DO.

  • Bitter Scribe

    This is a great example of what drives me absolutely bananas about this election. Let’s ask Donald Trump about grabbing women by the pussy, and let’s ask Hillary Clinton about saying different things to different people under different circumstances, because these two things are exactly the same, equally scandalous, and proof that Both Sides Do It.

    Oh, and Obama is a dick, but Trump isn’t a racist, because “Mexico isn’t a race.” Just ask Mark Halperin (sp? I’d look it up but who gives a fuck).

    I seriously do not remember political reporters being this stupid when I was young.

    • DoILookAmused2u ?

      Honest Abe and Seward told Congress the 13th Amendment would help end the war and bring peace sooner while secretly negotiating a peace deal and not telling Congress because they were afraid Democrats would not ratify the 13th Amendment if they could argue their was another path to Peace.

      And so slavery was ended. His bad.

  • limberrat

    Now Drumpf is going after John McCain again…
    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/785885793340448769

    • Beowoof14

      Don is doing his best to destroy the republican party. I am enjoying this.

      • OddMan

        Burn the fucking party down, Donald.

        I am really beginning to think that he is in this to start a third party of Trump supporters and tea partiers. And form that new even more right wing than Fox TV station with the Roger boys.

        • Cranky Man

          There has to be a long con position for him, he’s too scheme centric not to have an option like you hypothesized.

        • The DeplorableDemmeVagenda

          Bingo!

      • Dr. Rrrrrobotnik

        It couldn’t happen to a nicer organization.

        I mean, they could have seen this coming 7 years ago if they’d ever read “Frankenstein”, but who am I kidding, Republicans don’t read.

    • Bitter Scribe

      He’s going to whine his way to victory.

      • Villago Delenda Est

        Wave victory for the Democrats.

      • Longstreet63

        That’s right! He’s found that hidden part of the Constitution the awards electoral college votes for sick burns.

      • The DeplorableDemmeVagenda

        He’s going to try, (but he’s going to lose).

    • Joe Beese

      What “very foul mouthed” language might the Senator have used?

      I must know!

      • AnnieGetYerFun

        He called his wife a cunt. Unless you knew that already. Sorry, I lose track of who has been here forever.

    • Msgr_Trump_has_killed_satire

      I’ll be in my bunk.

    • Villago Delenda Est

      This guy, he talks about “I could have fucked her” and “Grab that pussy”, and he has the very small juevos to attack McCain for being “foul mouthed”?

      • Anna Elizabeth

        Yeah. Gotta “love” it.

    • SmokinGood

      Oh no! As a liberal, I would be VERY UPSET if John McCain and Donald Trump were to get into a very public feud.

    • YoBunnyBunny

      Oh poor you, Donald. McCain dropped you almost like you dropped your 2 (soon-to-be 3?) ex-wives for not being 10s anymore. Somebodies fees fees are hurted.

      Couldn’t’ve happened to a nicer schmuck…

    • GHERKINS OF TRUTH!

      Wait, is that a Trump Tweet that contains facts?

      IS THIS THE PIVOT WE’VE BEEN WAITING FOR?!

  • Beowoof14

    Thinking is hard and that is why most Americans don’t do it. Now get out of the way Survivor is on.

  • Swampay
  • fawkedifiknow

    I’m totally guessing here – on account of I wouldn’t read “The Art of the Deal” with a gun pointed at my head – but there has to be all kinds of examples where the Idiot (who didn’t really write the book but takes credit for it) espouses playing your cards next to your vest when negotiating anything. It’s called “competence in transactional business and state craft.”

  • laughingnome

    So am I to understand, reading between the lines of the email, Huma is totally Hillary’s part-time Islamic love bunny?

    • Internet rule 34 (would link but that would just be plain wrong)…

  • Antonin Dvorak

    Not a religious guy but “Christianity Today’s” anti-Trump editorial was pretty good:

    Strategy becomes idolatry when we betray our deepest values in pursuit of earthly influence. And because such strategy requires capitulating to idols and princes and denying the true God, it ultimately always fails.

    Enthusiasm for a candidate like Trump gives our neighbors ample reason to doubt that we believe Jesus is Lord.

    • Villago Delenda Est

      Drumpf’s talibangical followers believe Mammon is Lord. Falwell, Robertson, Graham, the lot of them.

    • Dr. Rrrrrobotnik

      “Enthusiasm for a candidate like Trump gives our neighbors ample reason to doubt that we believe Jesus is Lord.”

      Correct but way, way, *wwaaaaaayyyy* too late.

    • Mezzaluna

      Since the neighbors’ pastors seem to be focused on the SCOTUS vacancies to the exclusion of all else, they aren’t looking too devout.

    • IdRatherBeDancing

      That is a big deal. I was like, “gird your loins if a bunch of Christians cannot vote for Cheeto.” Are you reading this Mike Pence?

  • Robert J.

    The CIA Got It Right Once again. This Is the Obvious Proof …

    http://patriotmag.website/

    This is The CIA’s the majority of stunning declaration yet,

    Nevertheless the mainstream media isn’t really claiming a word about it!

    Just what are they really trying to cover up?

    I’m sending this to all my close friends, family members and patriot brothers …

    As swiftly as I could …

    Since it’s the ONLY video clip I have actually seen that exposes the “April Surprise” nobody is discussing …This is bigger as well as even more unsafe compared to ISIS could have ever come to be.

    As well as it’s visited YOUR community …

    METHOD much faster than you believe.

    P.S. Some of America’s richest are already investing hundreds of hundreds of bucks to prepare for this …

    And when you enjoy this discussion you’ll understand why.
    Home | Members Area | Free Article Spinner | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Contact

    • DoILookAmused2u ?

      Cray cray?

      • Jamoche

        Markov chain. Dok hit it once already.

        • Msgr_Trump_has_killed_satire

          Chain Markov to the mast and stuff your ears with wax.

    • JustDon’tSayPu55y

      Hi troll! Tell me again how I get enough money to buy a Mclaren?

      • Longstreet63

        Beat me to it, you magnificent pussy.

        • JustDon’tSayPu55y

          Hey, my name is Dont. Mr Pu55y if you’re nasty!

    • limberrat

      So is this a conspiracy site or one with a ton of malware? I’m guessing malware.

      • Vincent Ricola

        This. No way I’m clicking that link. LOL.

      • DensityDestiny

        I’m sure as hell not clicking to find out. Someone else can take that one for the team. And anyway a trainload of rainbow trolls…mic drop.

    • Taco Treg
      • JustDon’tSayPu55y

        THAT was a coffee-spitter!

      • IdRatherBeDancing

        Ok, this is the second bes thing to the shimmy.

    • Dr. Rrrrrobotnik

      Haw, you forgot to crop your copypasta.

      • Villago Delenda Est

        Yeah I noticed that too. Such inattention to detail belies the metric fuckton of derp that produced such crap.

    • Msgr_Trump_has_killed_satire

      LORI????!!!

    • Villago Delenda Est

      We’ve got a live Alex Jones acolyte here!

    • Vincent Ricola

      я думаю, что вы находитесь в неправильном месте

    • Msgr_Trump_has_killed_satire

      How much gold cans of soup purity of essence should I stockpile?

      • Villago Delenda Est

        I’d contact Rafael Cruz for guidance on the soup.

        • Zippy W Pinhead

          at least 100 cans

    • Juan de Fuca

      I stopped reading at http://patrio….

      • Zippy W Pinhead

        about the same place I stopped

      • Joe Beese

        http://patrio…. is the last refuge of scoundrels.

    • LesBontemps

      Bqhatevwr.

      • James Christopher Owen

        Go home, Scott. You’re drunk.

    • Spotts1701
      • Anna Elizabeth

        XD <3

    • Longstreet63

      1) the CIA? These people have no idea what the real CIA does, do they?
      2) “April Surprise”? How timely.
      3) “Hundreds of bucks”? Playing the Big Time, I see.
      4) What happens if I don’t enjoy the discussion?

    • Joe Beese

      Would you like to hear about how you can earn thousands of dollars while working at home?

      • data_ninja

        Where’s my McLaren? Or was it McLori? I get it all confused now.

    • AngryKatie

      I’ve got this terrible sense of deja vu. Almost like I’ve seen this exact post before… *wanders off confused*

      • Erala Contratista

        All over again?

    • data_ninja

      Free copy of website footer with every copy/paste!

      ETA: I love that a TLD is ‘.website’. I mean, that really clears up the confusion. Other TLDs like ‘.car’, ‘.refrigerator’, or ‘.zooanimal’ aren’t actually those things! No wonder that website speaks the ‘.TRUTH’!

      P.S. If you change your TLD to ‘.truth’ you owe me royalties.

  • Joe Beese

    I have to assume that Evan wouldn’t be flecked with quite as much spittle if he wasn’t concerned with the possibility that this quote might damage Hillary’s electoral chances.

    Wipe your face and fear not. Hillary can win the Electoral College with a parlay of VA, WI, NH, PA, and CO – all of which she leads by at least 6.5 points in the 538.com weighted averages.

    She’s in like Flynn.

    • Msgr_Trump_has_killed_satire

      Considering the origin of that phrase, ummm….https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_like_Flynn

      • Joe Beese

        Ha! I never knew where that came from!

        OK, she’s a lead-pipe cinch.

        • Msgr_Trump_has_killed_satire

          OH! In like Flint!

    • joebags

      Absolutely right. She doesn’t need us. And I predict it will be about 18 months into her first term when it becomes obvious how aware she is of how little she needs us.

  • Arse Grammatica

    “I believe in evidence-based decision making.”

    Well that is the end of her right there.

  • Joshua Norton

    “LOL ABRAHAM LINCOLN YEAH RIGHT OK LIKE THAT IS EVEN A PERSON”

    Actually, many of them know something about Lincoln. Mainly that he wrote the Constitution along with Jesus and George Washington just after the Pilgrims came over on the Titanic.

    • DoILookAmused2u ?

      Also Lincoln freed slaves proving no Republican today is racist.

    • And moses. Don’t forget old moses.

      • mackafritz

        Didn’t Moses build the Titanic?

        • DoILookAmused2u ?

          No, professionals built the Titanic, and an Amateur built the Ark– Ben Carson

          • Longstreet63

            You know, Titanic was actually quite well designed. It’s just that side swiping an iceberg at speed was not actually contemplated in the design, like driving a car into a tree.
            So, you might say professionals built the Titanic, and professionals sank it.
            They also sank one of her sisters and tried damn hard to get the third.

          • DoILookAmused2u ?

            Whereas the Ark was fictional, and thus impervious to sinking.

          • Longstreet63

            If real, it was a Mesopotamian river barge, with a very limited exposure to threat other than accidentally going out into one of the more sheltered seas in the world.
            And it was probably also built by professional boatwrights.

          • Thiazin Red

            And the design did include an adequate number of lifeboats.

        • On mars.

      • Taco Treg

        Wait. Wasn’t Moses Jewish?

        • No he was a Christian true and through.

          • Mezzaluna

            But he has horns! Due to crappy medieval translation or something but Michelangelo fell for it.

    • Longstreet63

      He suspended habeas corpus and jailed political opposition, too, so that makes it ok for Trump! Who is just so Lincoln like in every way.

      • LesBontemps

        Logs libel!!

  • Bill Slider

    Public position: I am a devoted family man, and a Christian. Private position: Where is the damn pool boy?

  • DensityDestiny

    Thanks for writing this up, Evan. I figured that was the context, but really don’t want to get sucked into reading all of it myself. Sometimes I do, but just not today. Feeling sad that so few people appreciate this amazingly gifted woman.

  • Zippy W Pinhead
    • Villago Delenda Est

      /slaps forehaid

      You idiots! It’s like you flame yourself in an internet conversation! You’ve lost the thread! You’ve lost the thread!

    • Joe Beese
      • Villago Delenda Est

        Oh, fuck Glennzilla with Drumpf’s tiny dick.

      • Mezzaluna

        I think the best we can say about Mr.Greenwald at this point is Mr. Greenwald has stuff.

      • Chyron HR

        Remember when the Glennyleaks Axis of Truth accidentally leaked documents that reflected poorly on Russia, and frantically redacted them?

        Good times.

        • JHan

          I missed that. It doesn’t surprise me.

      • Zippy W Pinhead

        and once again, Greenwald is full of shit. Has been, more often than not lately

        • James Christopher Owen

          What the eff is with that guy, for real?

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            Drowning in kool aid

      • JHan

        So all of that stuff to say that we shouldn’t tarnish wikileaks with the same brush as we tarnish trump,(who made a mistake or something) that conflating wikileaks with trump and russia is wrong? really Glenn.

      • JHan

        I will happily continue conflating wiki with russia Glenn, sorry/not sorry!

      • Truthiness2U

        I wouldn’t trust Greenwald, Snowden, or Assange father than I could throw Vlad Putin and his damn horse.

    • Kavefish

      :::reads linked article:::

      :::scans Google News:::

      :::radio silence:::

      Yep! Seems I get a lot of better-quality news via Wonkette than my regular internet “Front Page.”

  • TheGrandWaz00

    Public position: I have the greatest respect for women.
    Private position: Grab them by the pussy.

    Fun game.

    • therblig

      Reality: Melania always has a headache. Thank god for scat porn.

      • AngryKatie

        When people keep insisting the grab em by the pussy tape is the worst thing that could come out, that’s exactly where my mind goes. Please let there be a really really gross Trump sex tape.

        The only reason I don’t think there is one is that Marla Maples once said he’d never let her see him naked, even once they were married.

        • Villago Delenda Est

          I’ve always wondered if Marla’s supposed quote about “The best sex I’ve ever had!” wasn’t snark.

    • Kavefish

      Wasn’t that the crux of the (surprising) Chuck Todd takedown of Guliani, recently?

  • rosenbomb

    I can understand this kind of maneuvering much more than I can understand claiming to be religious and full of “family values” while simultaneously fucking over all women, minorities, and poor people.

    • Longstreet63

      Well, you know, “Family Values” is something you SAY. Screwing over everyone is something you DO. It’s getting elected vs. governing, you see.

  • AngryKatie

    Every time I’ve told someone “that’s an interesting suggestion, we’ll look into that” instead of “you really are a fucking moron, that’s both a bad idea, and not possible” I’m demonstrating different public and private positions.

  • ryp

    Not understanding that one should not always express publicly what they think privately is why so many people get in trouble on twitter.

    • YoBunnyBunny

      But Donald was just Telling It Like It Is… What’s wrong with that, huh?

      • revenant

        1. he’s alway wrong about how “it is”, it isn’t like that at all.
        2. his “Telling” is garbled, illiterate gibberish
        3. FOADIAF, Donald J. Drumpff, but first STFU

        • Death Rocks From Space

          FOADIAF of votes!

  • Lori

    Christians complaining about a person saying one thing in one situation and another in a another situation do so with their usual hypocritical gall.

    Check out two-faced St Paul from One Corinthians 9:

    19 For though I am free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.

    20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them
    that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that
    are under the law;

    21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to
    God, but under the law of Christ,) that I might gain them that are
    without law.

    22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

    23 And this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

    • Villago Delenda Est

      Taqiya! Taqiya! Taqiya!

  • Señor Skwerl King

    My private position on Trump Supporters: Fuck you, you fucking ignoramuses.
    My public position on Trump Supporters: Bless your hearts.

    • IdRatherBeDancing

      Interesting. That would have been both my positions.

  • data_ninja

    Maybe people complaining about the public/private views are saying that she isn’t being transparent enough. After all, they had to (incorrectly) read an email that was leaked! to learn that she knows how things get done. If they hadn’t (incorrectly) read this email, they’d have never known anything about her, despite her website full of information, etc.

    Trump on the other hand, who has literally no substance to just about any of his plans (military ones need to be secret!) still hasn’t released his tax information. But yeah, he’s gonna be the game changer and the people should trust him.

    He is being transparent however, in that the rational people saw right through him from the very beginning.

    • ahughes798

      The fact that there are SO MANY who haven’t, though, is scary.

  • goonemeritus

    My public position is that I like Hilary, my private position is that I like bar-b-que.

    • Thiazin Red

      I bet she would be a lot of fun at a barbecue.

    • OddMan

      My public position is that I am a retired Mechanical Engineer.

      My private position is . . . well lets just say lots of drugs and booze are involved. And I read Wonkette.

      • jesuswasablack

        I can’t wait till I retire!

        • OddMan

          The best part is getting up on a Monday morning with my sweetheart, and drinking coffee and reading the newspapers (and Wonkette) for a couple of hours to start the day.
          The worst part is I am fucking old, and my body is even older.

          • goonemeritus

            I worry that when I retire I will just have more time to rip the guts out of my house and endlessly redo it.

      • Truthiness2U

        Oddly I do a lot more drinking and swearing in my private position, than I do in my public one. Weirdly my stupid employers are against my doing both on their dime.

        We need to Make American Great Again and not only allow me to do both as part of my work, but have my employer fund my booze!

  • Apple Scruff

    Even Sam Sanders on the NPR podcast rolled his eyes and said to Hillary, “Keep Abraham Lincoln out of it.” I was very disappoint.

    • Villago Delenda Est

      NPR: Nice Polite Republicans. They don’t grab pussies, they grab vaginas.

      • Mezzaluna

        They just grab republican donor dollars in private but tout the liberal donors in public.

    • Anna Elizabeth

      NPR can eat the corn out of my shit.

      • GHERKINS OF TRUTH!

        How about pistachios instead?
        Because “Evergreen Donation.”

        • Anna Elizabeth

          Nice!

          OMGLOL

    • Marceline

      NPR lost its soul a long time ago.

  • Michael Smith

    I’m glad she answered that way. That’s the way I read what she was saying.

    But the big difference between someone like Abraham Lincoln and someone like Hillary is that Hillary is a woman.

  • h4rr4r

    I hate that bugs bunny ruined that word.

    • Longstreet63

      Bugs libels!
      It was really Gavrillo Princip anyway.

      Oh, “word”!
      I thought you said “world”!

      …never mind…

  • Longstreet63

    I’m thinking that public/private positions are good things. Take Tim Kaine’s feels on abortion. I want public positions that agree with my convictions. The personal feelings of politicians should be largely irrelevant.
    Just as my company does not pay me to have an opinion on their new initiatives, thank you very much.

    • Sister Artemis

      I understand what you are saying, but I think Hillary’s point was a little different. I took it as the private position being the negotiations and give and take that you are willing to do to get something done, and the public position is the ultimate goal or position you’re aiming for.

  • Crystalclear12

    Politics are like hot dogs, you don’t want to know what goes into making them.

    • Villago Delenda Est

      Bismarck noted this well over a century ago.

    • Longstreet63

      It does seem like some politicians are All Beef these days, though.

      • Villago Delenda Est

        Tripe.

    • jesuswasablack
      • pstockholm

        #oneveganaday

      • GHERKINS OF TRUTH!

        That looks remarkably similar to the old-man-ass on the Trump statues.

        I’d put the image here, to retaliate for the earlier trumpdingle one, but, as they say, an eyebleach for an eyebleach, and the whole world ends up blind.

      • Doug Langley

        If I convince myself that’s chocolate mousse ice cream, I just might be able to get dinner down tonight.

    • pstockholm

      Was looking for the Weiner/weiner joke tucked in that innocuous statement, but I leave it to better wonketarians than me.

  • ahughes798

    I thought her comment was NBD, and I’ll try to explain how I took it. Say me or Mr. 798 have $10K to have some work done on our house. I want to spend the money on, say, updating the kitchen. Mr. 798 wants to spend it on getting new roofs and gutters on the house and the garage. Discussions are had, and we disagree, though after a while I realise that having a good roof is a higher priority. So, my “public” position is to get a new roof. My private position is I want the damned kitchen updated. That’s the way I looked at it.

    • AnnieGetYerFun

      Ha! In my house, my husband, who rarely cooks, wants the updated kitchen. I want the new roof.

      ETA: Not that I would be sad with a kitchen that didn’t suck.

    • Berkeleybear94

      From a political standpoint, though, what the analogy to Lincoln suggests is that you would publicly state your goal is a new kitchen (the 13th Amendment) but to get support for that you’d concede doing what he wanted with the gutters (giving patronage jobs to supporters). The better fit would be where you supported the more useful goal, by whatever metric, but you make private concessions to make the overarching goal be accomplished.

  • Villago Delenda Est

    “Alt-Right” = Nazi fucks just waiting for a chance to commit crimes against humanity.

  • hendenburg2

    Bravo on the “OMGhazi”!

    • pstockholm

      Yeah I thought that was brilliant too.

  • jesuswasablack

    Explaining this to a tea-tard is fucking pointless, If it don’t fit on a bumper sticker don’t bother?

    http://rlv.zcache.co.nz/lock_her_up_bumper_sticker-r274606394d044dc1ac0f21fdf45184f9_v9wht_8byvr_324.jpg

  • Rufus T. Firefly

    WHY WON’T KITLERY RELEASE SECRETARY SEWARD’S EMAILS!!!111!!!! WHAT IS SHE HDING?

  • Mavenmaven

    “evidence based” pretty much invalidates the entire Republican economic program.

  • dvlaries

    Evan’s got a decidedly different take than William Rivers Pitt. Two of my favorite writers at crossed-swords…? http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/37933-debate-2-breaking-the-bottom-of-the-barrel

    • Berkeleybear94

      Well, then Pitt needs to take PS 101 and any course on American political history and then think about it. Thinking this is a scandal is the same problem as the absolutists who don’t that sometimes you don’t show all your cards to the other players when you are, say, negotiating an arms deal or trying to accomplish comprehensive tax reform. “Sunshine is the best disinfectant” is a great slogan but lots of good stuff is better in the dark (mushrooms, scary movies, and the Constitutional Convention to name 3). Yes it is at odds with radical ideas of democracy but so is the greedy and rapacious nature of most human beings.

      • Truthiness2U

        Heck, in regular negotiation you have what you’re wiling to pay up to YY, but you start out with XX.

        This isn’t some terrible plot against honesty, this is negotiation 101. I don’t get the poutrage.

  • peteywheats

    I don’t live in a binary world where people are either saints or devils. Too bad Evan does. He refuses to acknowledge any faults in HRC, when the smart, and preceptive thing to do would be to admit her shortcomings and contrast them to Trump, that might convince people to vote for her, in spite of her very easily catalog-able lies.

    • Sister Artemis

      I don’t think Evan’s in a binary world, nor is it his job to convince people to vote for Hillary in any one particular post, or at all if so chooses.

    • Jugo de Jesús

      What are you babbling on about? Who is saying Hillary is perfect or a saint? The point of this article is that, once again, something Hillary said was taken out of context to weave this narrative of how she is a sketchy demon-bitch from hell. Every time someone defends Hillary with that little thing called facts we can always count on someone to respond with nonsense such as yours.

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9a223fd2b7c82c5a1486f7133937350fc0a92c814ee7a1d792415d6b052b9e4a.gif

    • zerosumgame0005

      your butthurt is amusing

  • Ilgattomorte

    That’s the problem with politics: all of the lying and cheating.

    It’s not at all like the simple, honest construction business, where you borrow some money, attract investors and then you build your project. Of course, you may run into cost overruns, or union disputes and you might have to pay off an inspector or two, but you still do honest work and get your project built. Unless you run into management problems, in which case you just have to raise more money or, maybe, cut construction costs and/or materials and sure, there may be some quality issues but you get your job done! Though sometimes, the whole thing goes tits up and then you just simply declare bankruptcy and make a deal to pay back your vendors at pennies on the dollar and, of course, your investors get screwed and maybe the whole thing doesn’t get built at all …

    … but at least it’s honest!

    • Death Rocks From Space

      You mean like the way Donald is honest? Crooks can come in any set o’ stripes.

  • Sister Artemis

    I’d just like to note, here, as a sausage-eater, that shit is gross before you cook it up. But in the end, yummmm.

    • zerosumgame0005

      as wee young laddie I made the mistake of taking a job at a sausage factory in MN, and the first day was the last day I ever ate a hotdog or had sausage on a pizza…it goes way beyond gross

  • Berkeleybear94

    Shockingly enough, a politician in the real world acknowledges the reality that to get where you want to go in policy terms you don’t just get to defend policy on its so-called merits. Sometimes to get people health care coverage you have to incentivize the hospitals and insurance companies. To get workers a living wage you have to give contracts to Congressmen. And to get the fucking Iranians to stop racing towards a nuke you have to give them back their money. And a lot of time, you get compromises on policy as a result – sometimes tragically (like the Civil Rights Amendments themselves, which were effectively gutted for almost a hundred years by the Courts and legislatures, and even know only drive at legal equality before the state rather than true equity).

    I’d laugh at the simplicity of anyone who doesn’t get this – but I know how hard it is for my students to grasp it, even as they all get the idea self-interest motivates most people including politicians.

    • joebags

      Of the two positions Clinton has taken recently–between very public gladhanding of Sen. Warren in recent days versus her more private support of Wasserman Schultz (up until that became politically impossible)–which do you think most represents her actual beliefs?

      • Berkeleybear94

        Why do you think either one is inconsistent with her ultimate policy goals? Most of us would like a fairer economic system, but in the short run people like DWS who are beholden to predatory lenders for their own reasons are valuable within the Democratic coalition. So you take a position publicly and you do what is necessary privately to get closer to the goal. It is called pragmatic incrementalism and has been a defining trait of American politics since forever. Even our fucking Revolution happened in fits and starts and compromise of principles (TJ’s flowery appropriation of Locke in the Declaration of Independence notwithstanding).

        • joebags

          I would be far more sanguine about the chances for actual meaningful change if the public/private policy was reversed in this case. Clinton has been a friend and supporter for years of Wasserman Schultz and only started buddying up loudly and publicly with Warren to stave off a political revolt on her left. Why would I be wrong in assuming her intentions and desires are more closely aligned with her private, long term actions?

          The opposite holds true for Warren–she has in the past objected to positions that Clinton has taken, but very publicly stood along side Clinton when it was a political necessity for her own cause. I still feel that Warren’s priorities align with mine. And I think there is a very good possibility that Clinton will throw those priorities right out the window when she doesn’t need the political cover anymore.

          • laineypc

            You raise good points. Keep raising them while you keep the lunatic out of the White House.

          • bookish

            When Clinton is elected, we need to hold her feet to the fire on issues that are important to us.

          • GHERKINS OF TRUTH!

            This. ^^^

            Don’t waver at this important juncture, and surely don’t flounce off in a bitter huff like 2010, if all of your ponies aren’t stabled to your liking.

            You need to work at making this world better, and the balance of political power has been tilted towards those with all the monies for longer than any of us has been alive.*

            But there are more of us than them, and we need to work together to tilt things back.

            * Hell, that’s how Drumpf managed to buy his way into the league without any actual political skills.

          • DT

            You can’t do that. Only the senate and house can.

          • DT

            “Clinton has been a friend and supporter for years of Wasserman Schultz
            and only started buddying up loudly and publicly with Warren to stave
            off a political revolt on her left.” WHERE IN THE FUCK DOES THIS SHIT COME FROM?!?!?! Elizabeth Warren BEGGED Hillary to run a few years back when she was licking her wounds over the Benghazi shit.

            What happened in your life to make you hate Hillary Clinton so much?

          • Death Rocks From Space

            I was gonna reply to joebags (bags of what?) but thanks for doing it for me. I also hear a lot of fear &/or worry in his/her comments. Maybe anti-anxiety meds would help.

          • The DeplorableDemmeVagenda

            Eyes on the prize.

            There has been enough damage done by skepticism.
            There will be plenty of time to deal with this later, and no reason for it now.

      • Bemused

        Ultimately, as long as she is putting forth policy that also aligns with glad-handing Sen Warren, does it matter if she stays friends with Wasserman-schultz?

        (“I don’t like your friend so you have to stop being friends with her in order to stay friends with me” is a dick move even in Jr. High.)

        • joebags

          My point is that I have a bad feeling she’ll be putting forward Wasserman Schultz policies while “staying friends” with Warren. There is a lot in her past positions and policies that tells me that fear is not an unreasonable one.

          • malsperanza

            Except that Warren is in the Senate and, if we get a Dem majority, will be head of the Banking Cmte–one of the most powerful positions in government. Schultz is a mere member of the House.

      • malsperanza

        No question at all in my mind: Warren.

        Clinton is a pol; DWS was the party leader. In the middle of a campaign it was damned risky to get rid of her–though it worked out well. (And the GOP should have done the same to Priebus.) But Warren is a powerhouse whose focus, like Clinton’s, is on individual citizens.

        Clinton has a thirty-year progressive record on social issues: she has by far the best proposals I’ve ever seen on mental health, people with disabilities, children, poverty … and very good positions on race, civil rights, taxation, cities, education. This year’s obsession by Bernie voters with DWS is really, really irrelevant–tied to the mistaken belief that DWS represented some core aspect of the Democratic party. She was just a hack, as the people in that job typically are.

        Where I worry about Clinton is not on her supposed shilling for Wall Street. Frankly, I think that’s a touch of leftist hysteria about Profit Is Evil. It’s her foreign policy that worries me. She’s a too hawkish, and too loyal to old friends. Obama was the one who broke with Mubarak, for example; Clinton would have stuck with him.

        But you know, the president does not operate like a king. She cannot do any of the things you fear, or you hope for, without Congress. And above all: the Supreme Court. Eyes on the prize.

  • BMW

    I swear this is Hillary’s problem…she sounds rehearsed even when she’s telling the absolute truth. It’s she could say “Hey, everybody, water is wet.” Then the next day there’d be a poll with 45% saying they believe her, 45% saying they don’t believe her, and 10% undecided.

    • Luminapede

      Hillary gave the Student commencement speech at Wellesley College in 1969. As she was listening to a condescending speech by Senator Brooke, she threw out her prepared speech and wrote a new speech on the spot, and delivered it, televised, to the assembled crowd, and killed it. At age 23. She sounds “rehearsed” because she is brilliant and has a special gift for analysis, memory and public speaking. It is no surprise to me that Trump’s biggest support is primarily from uneducated white men, who (1) just don’t get it, and (2) fear a strong visionary woman.

    • Doug Langley

      I’m reminded of all the people who kept criticizing Obama, saying he sounded “too polished”, or “too professorial”, or just too damn smart.

      • DT

        That’s what it comes down to. When you’re that smart, it’s VERY DIFFICULT not to go around explaining things to people all day.

  • joebags

    And how about all us nimrods losing our shit over her characterizing the problem with the “rigged” nature of the financial sector being a perception problem? And that the way forward is not more regulation from the outside but for the bankers to regulate themselves? Is it alright with the arbiters of the Groupthink if that makes me queasy?

    • PimentacoTX

      Self-regulation is far more efficient, although definitely a bit idealistic.
      You would need an army to regulate and punish every single thing the financial folks do. If you instill in these people some kind of sense of shame or ethics, you wouldn’t.
      Encouraging these wheeler-dealers to be decent human beings is not likely to happen, but it’s a good method.

      • joebags

        Look how well it worked post Clinton I signing away the last vestiges of Glass-Steagall.

        • PimentacoTX

          Just sayin’ – doctors are self-regulated as are lawyers.

          It would be great if these people would develop a soul, but it can be done.

          • joebags

            If the future funancial security of our country depends on the board of Goldman Sachs developing a soul, then I’m definitely going to start stockpiling food, gold and guns.

          • PimentacoTX

            Yeah, I never agreed to the premise that our future financial security of our country depends on it. She was trying to get something done. Why is that so wrong? R’s and lobbyists won’t allow regulations to pass, what are we supposed to do, sit on our hands?

            It’s like the whole Bernie, Jill, or Hillary thing. No it ain’t perfect, but we have a chance to mitigate the damage and a responsibility to do so any way we can.

          • joebags

            Okay, but given Clinton’s (both hers and his) past history concerning financial regulation what (beyond fervent hope) makes you think Madame President is going to be the one to mitigate the damage?

          • DT

            Because the only other option is Herr Trump.

          • PimentacoTX

            This is teh constant refrain – we can’t get exactly what we want so let’s just throw up our hands and forget the whole thing. DT nailed it below…you think clinton is bad on these issues? Look, I”m sorry you didn’t get Bernie or Stein or Johnson or whomever, but I think Hillary will do something. And every little bit counts.

          • malsperanza

            She will go after tax law, which will help.

        • malsperanza

          The argument about the repeal of Glass-Steagall at the time was that banks had found ways around it, so that it was almost useless. It was outdated and no longer able to control the breakdown of the “Chinese wall” between banking and the stock market.

          Should it have been updated instead of repealed? Clearly. But some of what happened afterward (probably a lot) would have happened even if the law had been allowed to stand as written.

      • laineypc

        Help us Obe Wan Ka -Buffet, you’re our only hope! (Seriously I think Hillary probably knows a few more like him)

        • PimentacoTX

          eh, i doubt it! He’s a literal one in a thousand. But you know, I was thinking that self-regulation doesn’t just mean “hey y’all, let’s not do shitty stuff”. I’m not sure what Hillary was referring to, but industry leaders can come together and form some real effective self-policing. Again, doctors and lawyers make up the boards that can yank licenses for their colleagues behavior.

          • Jack Strawb

            The idea that the American Bar Association’s real job isn’t to protect lawyers from the public amuses me. It really does.

          • malsperanza

            Maybe, but the NY Bar is an amazing organization that operates in the public interest. And some other state bars too.

          • PimentacoTX

            It’s not, it’s the state bar association’s job.

      • malsperanza

        Self-regulation clearly has zero chance of working. For the past 30 years, since banking was deregulated, the bankers have tanked the economy and broken the law every chance they got. I refer you to the S&L scandal of the early 1990s, which destroyed community banks, wiped out a lot of people’s savings, and wrecked the whole system by which minority neighborhoods got access to capital.

        We did fine when banking was heavily regulated, and we will do fine again. I’m not opposed to an army of regulators–why not put all those jobless MBAs to work?

        • PimentacoTX

          Well, I mean I agree to a point. But to clarify, with nothing else being passed, trying to push this idea is admittedly dreamy, but what did she have to lose? Also, as I noted “self-regulation” kinda depends on your definition. The heads of banks saying, “oh yeah, we’ll totally police ourselves” is obviously worthless. But, again, a strong board like the medical associations and bar associations wouldn’t be a bad thing either.

          • malsperanza

            That’s the Fed. It does good work. But it is not enough.

          • PimentacoTX

            No disagreement there.

          • James Christopher Owen

            Better still, give some real teeth to the SEC and staff it with enough good people who will actually carry out its mandate. Here and here are stories of missed opportunities by SEC and DOJ to reign in Wall Street. The Rolling Stone story is from ’14 and Jamie Dimon is still walking the street.

          • PimentacoTX

            I was just thinking the same thing myself! (That’s the sort of law I would be interested in working in as a paralegal). Anyway, my inartfully put point was, with the concept of regulation being so demonized and obstructed, it wasn’t totally crazy for her to suggest this. And to suggest it to a roomful of bankers took some ladyballs.

    • DT

      If you think this has anything to do with “groupthink” you need to reread that book. However, most people use “Orwellian” for things that are actually pointing out actually Orwellian things, so no one seems to get it.

    • malsperanza

      It’s not that the whole financial sector is rigged; it’s that specific parts of it are badly structured and not regulated enough. But for example, one way to rein in excessive and dangerous behavior is through tax law–which Clinton is pretty good on. I’m in favor of strict regulation too, but one problem is that the industry is very international and very fluid–it’s easy for banking to shift to nations with weak regs. Just watch the exodus from London to Paris when Brexit really starts–which is going to increase poverty in the UK.

      The point about Clinton is not that she’s too cozy with the financial industry, or somehow a mindless, greedy puppet of big banks; it’s that she really knows the financial sector deeply, as Warren does (and Obama,in his 2nd term). That’s a good thing. Regulation is needed, but not through some shallow concept like “break up the big banks” or “make our economy nonprofit.” Which is why I’ve remained skeptical about Bernie.

  • Kavefish

    Looks like I get dessert with my morning coffee:

    Polls-plus: 80.2%
    Polls-only: 83.4%
    Now-cast: 87.8%

    Thanks, Nate!

    • malsperanza

      Not quite as rosy in the Senate yet …

      • Kavefish

        That’s the dark cloud that’s not going away.

        At this point, it looks like something really awful would have to happen for Hillary to *not* win, but everything else still seems like wishing and hoping while walking a knife’s edge.

  • SeanT1001

    My private position is misanthropy. My public position is “sometimes I need a ride to work”.

  • Zyxomma

    OK, we very possibly have a chance to not only take back the Senate, but make huge inroads toward taking back the House, provided that disgusted Republicans stay home. Shall we encourage them to do so? I don’t think that violates Rules for Radicals.

  • Serai 1

    The fact that Hillary’s beyond smart enough to know what an enormous sack of bullshit Purity Politics is should alone qualify her for the job.

  • Blank Ron, Avenger of Ponies

    It was extra-lovely hearing Donnie go on and on and on about ‘HONEST ABE NEVER TOLD A LIE!!1!!1!’ which struck me as the sort of thing that you’d say if you’d only ever heard the man’s nickname and didn’t have any idea who or what he was. He probably believes the story about Washington and the cherry tree too.

    • DonnaDiva

      I know, it was so weird. I was like, what are you, 10?

      • malsperanza

        Pretty much. “I know the best words!” “I know more about the military than the generals.”

        10, maybe 11, max.

      • Death Rocks From Space

        Yes.

    • The DeplorableDemmeVagenda

      I noticed that, and am convinced that he was mixing up George Washington and Abe Lincoln. I know he was called “Honest Abe”, but was he known for never telling a lie?
      Kinda reminded me of that time that Dubya said that Prime Minister Gordon Brown (Scottish) wasn’t “dour.”
      Idiots!!

  • natoslug

    I’m sorry, but anyone who sticks to just one position is going to end up with bedsores and a very boring sex life.

  • Me not sure

    So the private face is kind of like when a superhero has a secret identity? https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/630d255171abf3754ead29fdc6a00ef36f60006c3a151279ee1fccf57609ec07.jpg

  • Mr Sincere

    zzzzzzzzz!

  • GHERKINS OF TRUTH!

    THIS is also the very reason we need Religion to stay the fuck out of politics. As our founding fathers so clearly intended.

    You can’t horse-trade with someone who claims “Well, God would want to cut taxes,” because what the fuck do you do then? “Well, sure, okay, but He told me to increase the minimum wage!”

    • whitroth

      Treaty of Tripoli, 1797, article 11: the US is “in no wise a Christian nation”.

  • Last Hussar

    This is my annoyance at Wikileaks – Secret deal to arm loonies- yes, release. Diplomats talking in private with frank views of VIPs of other countries DO NOT RELEASE. If Obama said to Hillary “I need you to negotiate with the President of Bongolesia, but be careful, the guy is a psychopathic fuckwit” That is info she needs. It is not in the public interest.

    Ditto “Our extreme loonies are holding up this very good law. Can you help us if we tailor it a bit” is STANDARD politics.

  • whitroth

    Is this like – was it Kaine? who said recently that privately, he deplores abortion, but as a legislator? administrator? he was required to follow the law and the Constitution?

    • CatDog

      I’d say that”s a simple recognition that personal conviction and public policy are different things (because, inn this case, the right to choose does not imply mandatory abortion). I think this is more like Bernie and Hillary smiling together on stage right now when they both know that once Trump has been dispatched to the dustbin of history, they will be back to some fairly intense struggles over the future of the Democrat party. At that point, I expect to be on Bernie’s side, but first we need to get Hillary in the house, so for now the differences don’t need to be emphasized in public (which is a different thing than denying or lying about them). That is how politics works, unless you are an emotionally stunted pseudo-billionaire haemorrhaging his private vacuousness into the public sphere in an all-night Twitter binge.

      • DT

        You said “Democrat party” and think Bernie will have any input going forward. Troll much?

        • Kavefish

          My prediction is that Bernie keeps his senate seat till the end of his term, maybe gets a few really low-level committee appointments, and then come re-election time the Democratic party no longer clears the field for him and he’s allowed to fail as an Independent while the party supports a different, Democratic, candidate. Bye, Felicia!

          But then, I’m biased.

          • DT

            You are also painfully unaware of Vermont politics. That’s not how this works. That’s not how any of this works.

          • Kavefish

            I told you I am biased.

            Vermont politics is not on my radar.

            EDIT: That is, except to say that I know Bernie made deals to get the support of the party and then spends a lot of time biting the hand that feeds him.

          • malsperanza

            Bernie has earned, and will get, some key committees. He was a spoiler, but he also has a real constituency, which has every right to expect a seat at the big kids’ table.

            Probably Banking. Maybe Judiciary.

            But if we don’t get a Senate majority none of it will matter. And right now it’s on a knife-edge.

          • Kavefish

            You’re probably right, but, like I said – I’m biased. I feel he took the spoiler role too far.

          • malsperanza

            Me too, very much so. But that doesn’t mean he should be sent to coventry. Politics is about coalitions. He represents an important progressive wing.

          • Kavefish

            Heh… “sent to coventry” gave me a laugh.

            I agree – politics is all about coalitions, and he now has the mantle of Head of the Progressives – a necessary part of moving the Democratic party forward into the future. Otherwise, we stand still and stagnate and become the GOP.

        • malsperanza

          Don’t overread.

      • James Christopher Owen

        As a fellow Berniebot, I approve this message. :)

        • CatDog

          I have to write one post like this here every day, reminding myself that I am a Bernie-loyalist. Then I just hang around trying to get upvotes from the snarkiest and funniest bunch of commentators I have yet found. I s’pose it could be seen as slightly sad :(

    • ADDISON GAINOUS

      Bingo. Instead of the paranoid Bernistas seeing a bank hiding behind every bush and comment. Jeez. Embarrassing.

  • Last Hussar

    I have a private position about the cashier at work (NOT like that – wash your minds out). Publically I’m nice to her.

  • bbayliss

    the public/private reality was well demonstrated by the change in affect demonstrated by trump/bush once they’d left the bus.

  • CatDog

    Is the unsavoury sausage the source of the leaks? Did Hillary grab it in private? If I follow all the links, will I end up where I need to be? (as a Bernista at heart, nothing here surprises, or makes me feel differently about Hillary Clinton, or the need to support her against the unshackled orange-headed slime monster from Hell. I am also very sure that Bernie is doing his own version of the private-public splits right now, because: Politics!).

    • DT

      As a Bernista, doesn’t this make you feel better about Hillary because all of the “apologies” we offered in the primaries turn out to be completely correct?

      • ADDISON GAINOUS

        Are you high?

        • DT

          Stop deflecting! :P

  • laineypc

    I’m still waiting for someone to post how they like to do it secretly in public.

    • bbayliss

      Someone told me there are literally thousands of videos demonstrating this very thing on the internet.

  • Doug Langley

    B-but . . . isn’t there supposed to be someplace where she said “Yes, I assassinated Bloveld, and now I’m head of S.P.E.C.T.R.E.!!! TOMORROW THE WORLD!!!”

    • Rick Hill

      I thought she was head of H.y.d.r.a.

      • malsperanza

        T.H.R.U.S.H.

        • Amy!

          Pffffttttt. My farrier can defeat them!

  • Panika MCD

    if people don’t know by now that when you are talking to another politician about the bill you want to pass and trying to gain their support for it that you highlight the parts of the bill that person and his/her constituents care about, then they need to go back to school. this is not evil or bad or rude or the part of making the sausage that is our laws ugly. IT’S A FREAKING ELEVATOR SPEECH. we do this at the doors when canvassing for a candidate or a slate of candidates: we talk to the voter about the policies that they care about. it’s not that the other parts don’t matter and it’s not that you lie if you’re asked about the other parts, it’s just how the cookie crumbles. politicians, like voters, only have so many hours in the day and neither do you. you give them the elevator speech, not the research paper. it’s a numbers game.

  • Jack Strawb

    Trump is clearly unqualified for the presidency and policy’s definitely important guys, so hows about that article on how Clinton’s desire for a no-fly zone over Syria may well provoke a shooting war with a nuclear power?

    Oh, and the Doomsday Clock of the The Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists is now at three minutes to midnight.

    Tick-tock…

    • Reminds me of the Cuban Missile Crisis. I was in grade school but I recall that people were really afraid that morning wouldn’t come. Nikita blinked.Thank god it was that nice Irish-Catholic Kennedy boy and not some war-happy R. Putin is no fool and I don’t think he would go as far as actual war with the West. Maybe I’m a cock-eyed optimist but I hope he won’t go that route. There will be no winner.

      • Anna Elizabeth

        My guess is that Putin wants a Cold War type of “stability”. Yes, there were ugly proxy wars, colonial rebellions, and constant tension, but the sides were known , the positions set.

        And the deterrence function of Mutually Assured Destruction.

        • Of all the nuclear capable countries, Pakistan and India may set something off IMHO. Hopefully it won’t come to that.

          • Anna Elizabeth

            Oh, let’s keep our fingers crossed.

            I agree they are the countries most likely to have a nuclear exchange. If Carl Sagan, et al are correct, even a “limited” nuclear war will result in the deaths of billions.

          • Agreed. : )

          • Anna Elizabeth

            I was always interested in nuclear weapons. It must sound ghoulish, but being a teen in the 80s….

            I understand the deterrent function, and I find the hardware fascinating, but any serious use of nuclear weapons means the extinction of the human race, IMHO.

          • Have you seen “Atomic Cafe”? It’s old but it’s something to see.

          • Anna Elizabeth

            I think so, is that the one where they examine closely the detonation effects on the test town?

          • Not exactly. It’s kind of a mix of the first tests showing servicemen watching the blast with sunglasses, the awful use of pigs’ exposure due to their skin being close to human skin, the old duck and cover baloney, etc.

          • Anna Elizabeth

            Oh, I don’t think I’ve seen that! I’ll take a look, thank you.

          • Hope you like it. Different perspective and shows how little they knew about what they had unleashed. “I have become Death, destroyer of worlds”…I believe it was Robert Oppenheimer who said that. I’m off to bed so have a good night.

          • Anna Elizabeth

            Oppenheimer, yes. I guess he P.O.’d Truman later, by expressing his regrets at what they had created. I imagine it kind of weighed on Truman, too.

          • As it would any thinking person. It would be years before the collateral damage came to light.

          • Anna Elizabeth

            Oh, I know.

            What hath man wrought? I’d like to see us find a better way.

            Not that I’m pessimistic, I just don’t think there is much margin for error anymore.

  • malsperanza

    Meanwhile, this is a MUST READ: Trump is using doctored emails produced by the Kremlin’s propaganda machine.

    http://www.newsweek.com/vladimir-putin-sidney-blumenthal-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-benghazi-sputnik-508635

  • James Christopher Owen

    On the one hand, there is something of the elitist there – the notion that sensible public officeholders need to save the ignorant rabble from themselves. On the other hand, this political season is kinda proving her right.

    • DoILookAmused2u ?

      In Lincoln’s case, the ignorant rabble–as you call them–were in Congress.

      • AJ Milne

        … so, kinda à propos, then.

  • Couldn’t we make political science classes mandatory or something?

    • ADDISON GAINOUS

      These rightwing dumbasses couldn’t follow directions to get there.

    • RugzYaBurnt

      Agreed! I had a discussion with my students (who for the most part have all had the misfortune of being educated in Indiana) about the fact that civics have virtually disappeared from public high school curricula. Why, it’s almost as if cynical politicians see advantages in an uneducated and therefore disenfranchised electorate!

      • Having had a kid in public high school not that long ago, I am kind of horrified by what they don’t learn. I mean, I went to the same schools and I don’t think my education was all that complete either – a lot of what I learned in college came as a surprise when I think it really shouldn’t have – but it’s gotten worse. Even basic history. My kid never got past the Civil War in any American history class, and the world history classes ignored whole continents. Like freaking Africa.

        • RugzYaBurnt

          Herodotus wept.

    • Wombat

      Way back at the dawn of time (or the 90s, whichever), Yr. Wombat was in graduate school at a Big T(however many)en university where sports ball was king, admissions standards for undergrads were low, and the kids had to take American Politics 101 as a general education requirement. This caused considerable angst because there was reading, news watching, and paper writing involved. Also too: politics.

      After a couple of quarters during which there was considerable whining about the requirement, I began giving excerpts from the citizenship test on the first day of class. As a general rule, the failure rate was around 90%. The only people who ever passed were the international students and the ones who were planning to major in poli sci. Stopped the whining, though.

  • donewithblame

    As a slight aside, I read today that that lame question was waaaaaay down the list at OpenDebates. The moderators just wanted to ask it. OpenDebates sent out a great email showing all the *incredibly* divergent opinions reflected in the submitted questions and saying the above. Alas, not on their website yet.

  • feministing

    who are these pure, innocent souls who think politics, where you try to get people to vote for you, is about being honest and straight forward 24 hours a day?

  • nick kelly

    Just a reminder that the largest leaks in US history were from secure govt sites.
    After Wiki-leaks, the Snowden leaks were from the ultra- secretive NSA

  • mike

    The minions will blindly follow the anti-christ, Hillary Clinton

    • jmk

      Awwww… the butthurt is strong in you, cupcake… and the minions have a response also too. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e47b6e712f7c17aaa92bebdb64983afe12158530a7639007c159533a496473ca.png

    • At the corner, turn left

      I’m ever so sorry, popkin, but the anti-christ is uniformly shown as a man type person. If you look closely, you’ll see that Hillary is a not-man type person, i.e. a woman type, ergo she can’t be the anti-christ. Trumptydumpty, on the other hand, self-proclaimed alpha man type that he is, seems to fit the bill perfectly. Did you hear that ⫷pop⫸? That was your tiny bubble of hate busting. Poor baby.

    • Anna Elizabeth

      Stoopid is as stoopid does, especially stoopid Apocalyptic Cultists.

  • Grahampuba

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lJlFA14rHw&feature=youtu.be&t=2
    DNC is the meal, you are the pigeon Evan Hurst.

    • Anna Elizabeth

      I predict your stay here will be…..not long.

  • Regret

    There is nothing dishonest about using different arguments when convincing different people.
    Most arguments are not mutually exclusive.

    For example, Jimmy wants apple pie.
    To the baker Jimmy will say ‘I have enough money.’
    To his friend Jimmy will say ‘I like the taste.’
    To his mom Jimmy will say ‘apples are healthy.’

    • Bad Tom

      And those statements do not contradict each other.

  • I AM R U

    This is…exactly…how politics gets done. You tell each side where the advantage lies for them in order to convince them to support your initiative – and sometimes neither of those arguments reflects your own private reasons.

  • Maybe

    “Nimrods” is too flattering a term.

    We all have different personas for different situations. We behave and speak differently at work than at home. We behave differently with friends than with parents. When I was in college I wrote my term papers in a very different style than I used emailing my friends.

    Yet another example of the radical right ignoring an obvious reality.

    • aggiemom04

      No not everyone behaves differently at work than at home, or with friends than with parents. Yeah, I might act goofier with my friends (or I did when I was a kid) than with my parents, but the person that I am and the things that I speak are the same, that doesn’t change from one person to the other. You can count on me not spouting one view at work and another view at home. To do otherwise is called being a hypocrite. Writing term papers in a different style or writing a letter to your friends in teenage jargon and then using a different style of words with your parents is not the same as standing for one thing at work and standing for something else at home. How can you ever trust someone who does that? And that is why Hillary cannot be trusted if she is saying one thing behind the scenes and something else in public……Quote from above: “I mean, politics is like sausage being made. It is unsavory, and it always has been that way….” “Unsavory”: 1. Distasteful or disagreeable: an unsavory task. 2. Not savory: an unsavory meal. 3. Morally offensive: an unsavory scandal…….And this is what you are satisfied with in our government officials? No wonder our government is so corrupt!!

      • Maybe

        My comment was not about principles, but about persona: “the aspect of someone’s character that is presented to or perceived by others.”

        In other words, the core character stays the same, but the behavior changes to fit the environment. If you act goofier with your friends than with your parents that’s presenting a different persona to your friends, which is normal (and proves my point). Most people also act more formally at work than they do in their own home.

        As a politician Hillary spins things. That’s a job requirement frankly, since voters don’t always like to hear the raw truth (remember when Dukakis said he would raise taxes and Senior Bush swore he wouldn’t–Bush lied, but the voters chose him.) She usually avoids actual lies, but she certainly tells the side of a story that suits her best–just as most people do. Are you really claiming that you don’t do that? Ever?

        And her quote about politics being unsavory should be truthful enough even for you. Politics is a bunch of ambitious people jockeying for power and rewards. Just what did you think it was?

        Accepting this is not a matter of being satisfied. It’s a matter of accepting the reality that our species is far from perfect and often behaves less than nobly. We can work for improvement, but demanding perfection is ridiculous. Demanding perfection given that you’re not perfect is hypocritical.

        But if you trust Trump more, go for it.

      • jwoolman

        It’s not dishonest to emphasize different aspects of an issue with different people. For example, I would like to stop bombing of civilians. The reason that really drives me is that it is grossly immoral and mass murder. But that argument makes most Americans uncomfortable because they have decided it’s moral. So with them, I talk about the equally true aspect that it is extremely counterproductive if you want to reduce terrorism because bombing civilians is guaranteed to create terrorists. Seeing your friends and family killed and injured, your home destroyed, epidemics caused by water supplies contaminated by bombing will radicalize a certain number of people and make them want to hurt the people responsible for it (namely, us). So we’re spending huge amounts of money to make ourselves less safe. This doesn’t make me two-faced. It’s just being pragmatic and realizing that different people respond better to different approaches. That’s all Hillary was talking about.

    • Jürgen Erhard

      Yes… BUT I will not, in public, say the opposite of what I say in private. I might not say *everything* I think/believe to everyone in every situation. But the opposite? No way.

  • CPav

    I was involved for a number of years in local politics. In order to properly serve my constituents, I would — on thankfully rare occasion — have to vote (public position) in a way that I would not have voted based on my own personal decision (private position). It’s not rocket science, folks.

    • Jürgen Erhard

      Lying/dishonesty/duplicity is not rocket science, that’s true…

  • dshwa

    Another nothing burger.

  • going4baroque

    Nimrods at Newsweek, who apparently get paid doing journalism, identified this little contradiction, which can not be attributed as referencing the late great Abe Lincoln. An excerpt of Newsweek’s analysis:

    In arguably the most glaring and worrisome example of two Hillarys (one who remains cozy with the top banks and the other a champion of the working class), Clinton’s website firmly puts the blame for the 2008 financial crisis on Wall Street. But her private, leaked speeches tell a different story.

    “The financial crisis showed how irresponsible behavior in the financial sector can devastate the lives of everyday Americans, costing 9 million workers their jobs, driving 5 million families out of their homes and wiping out more than $13 trillion in household wealth,” her site says.

    Clinton, who was junior senator from New York from 2001 to 2009, a period that included the financial crisis, privately confided to the nation’s biggest banks that blaming them was “an oversimplification, we know, but it was the conventional wisdom,” according to her Goldman speech in October 2013. “I think that there’s a lot that could have been avoided in terms of both misunderstanding and really politicizing what happened with greater transparency, with greater openness on all sides, you know; what happened, how did it happen, how do we prevent it from happening? You guys help us figure it out and let’s make sure that we do it right this time.”

    http://www.newsweek.com/hillary-clinton-wikileaks-wall-street-podesta-goldman-sachs-trade-middle-class-509297

  • Obolapocalypse

    Hillary licks Wall Street’s ass (her private position) and takes their millions in donations while calling them crooks in need of greater regulation in public. Then she invokes honest Abe Lincoln to explain it all away.

    You can’t make this shite up. Only a fool would vote for that evil bitch.

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