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Burqini

There is quite a big debate these days, over in Europe, about whether or not Muslim women ought to be allowed to wear “burkinis” — bathing suits that fully cover the skin and hair of the Muslim women who choose to wear them. Apparently, it is far more offensive for Muslim women — or any women — to cover up this much at the beach than it is for them to be that covered up in their daily lives.

According to those who support these bans, it has something to do with terrorism somehow, and also that they don’t want these women to be oppressed by those who would tell them they have to wear burkinis to the beach, but rather by those who would prefer they wear bikinis to the beach. Or something? Burkini bans are a thing in several places in Europe and Africa — and, notably, one was just overturned by a court in France.

But one British woman is hoping she will get to see the day when the garments are banned in her country as well!

Writing for the Telegraph, in an article titled “Burkinis? Here’s Why We Should Fight Them On The Beaches,” Allison Pearson insists that the burkini ought to be banned in Britain, because she thinks it is her business to go around telling people what they can wear at the beach. Pearson herself was recently traumatized by having witnessed a woman in one, playing with her kids at the beach and otherwise leaving everyone else alone:

On a bathing platform in Turkey, I found myself sunbathing next to a Muslim family. The father strutted about in a pair of teeny red trunks, just visible beneath the landslide of his vast belly. The mother wore a black and orange burkini, which left only her face, hands and feet exposed. She looked like a broiling penguin, clearly suffering in the intense heat. Their lovely children – two girls and a boy – jumped into the water again and again, as lithe and playful as porpoises.

I found myself gazing at the little girls and wondering how long. How long before they had to put away their pretty bikinis and their Caramac tummies, how long before they would never know the bliss of sun and sea on their skin again? I gave them about two years, poor mites. No such loss of freedom or pleasure would trouble their brother.

Pearson was so deeply upset by this, that she determined that it would be better for Muslim women to not go to the beach at all, rather than have them go and wear burkinis. Because she loves freedom, and hates the idea of a man telling a woman what to do! And she wants to put a stop to it, even if it means that those ladies feel they cannot go to the beach at all. Because freedom! The freedom to say “BIKINI OR GTFO!”

As the battle of the burkini rages in France, some commentators have claimed that at least this ludicrous garment affords Muslim women the opportunity to go swimming, when they might otherwise be locked away. I find that argument gives me the same sinking feeling as a sign on the gate to a meadow saying, “Dogs Must Be Kept on a Lead”. What appals[sic] is the way that Western women protested outside the French embassy waving a sign saying: “Non Islamophobia. Oui aux burkinis.” How dim and deluded can you be? France’s objection to the burkini, and its ugly sister the burka, arises from a love of women, not a hatred of Muslims.

YES. Don’t you get it? They love them so much that they don’t want to see them at the beach!

Pearson goes on and on and on about what a fantastic feminist she is for telling other women what they ought to be allowed to wear to the beach. Because, she says, the Muslim religion is very misogynistic.

Now, hey — am I gonna argue that there are no misogynists who are Muslim? Of course not! They exist just as Christian misogynists do! However, I also know a number of super badass feminist Muslims who don’t take shit from any man, and who wear hijabs for their own religious reasons, not just because a man told them they have to.

She then goes on to suggest that if some Muslim women who choose to wear burkinis wear them on the beach, then other Muslim women will be intimidated into doing so. Which, still, doesn’t seem like it’s her business.

The real reason, however, she thinks burkinis ought to be banned is that they could bring about SHARIA LAW. Wait, hold on. Not onto the Sharia law quite yet. Pearson first gives another example of a thing she witnessed, in which a bunch of female Muslim students refused to shake hands with the Principal at a graduation ceremony, or wore gloves to do so:

The key question is where does authority lie if too much is conceded to minorities? Consider a small clash of cultures right here in the UK. At a graduation ceremony for one college in the University of London, proud parents look on as their offspring queue up to receive a handshake from the Principal. The audience includes my friend Jackie. It should be a joyful occasion, but there is unease in the room. The female Muslim students put on gloves to shake hands with the Principal or they hold out their programmes to signal they do not wish to make physical contact with him.

Wow! How dare a woman decide who she would like to touch! This is political correctness RUN AMOK! Clearly, allowing this sort of thing will eventually lead to all Britons having to abide by Sharia Law.

The Iranian and Kurdish Women’s Rights Organisation says it wants all women to have the protection of the mainstream British legal system. Yet, slowly and insidiously, Islamic laws and practices are allowed to take root and it then falls to the host country to challenge them. It ends up making us look intolerant, when what we are guilty of is being too tolerant by half.

We don’t need an inquiry into how well or how badly Sharia courts are discriminating against women. We simply need a ban so discrimination isn’t even a possibility.

Yes. Laws and practices like not shaking hands or wearing what you would prefer they wear to the beach. How horrifying! Surely allowing this will lead to the entire country just deciding to abandon their own laws entirely and live by Sharia Law. That seems very plausible. It would be so much better to just say “Hey, Muslim women, don’t come to the beach unless you are willing to violate your religious beliefs!” That will solve everything.

Oh. Except the problem of non-Muslim women who may also go to the beach fully dressed. Like say if a non-Muslim woman just wandered down there in their regular clothes, and was maybe wearing a scarf that day because they wanted to get their Jackie O on, would she be asked to leave? Or if another non-muslim woman was wearing one of those surf suit things and also an Ethel Merman-style bathing cap? Would Pearson want them banned from the beach? Probably not! Probably no one would complain! Because it is weird to give a shit about what other people wear to the beach, so long as as they are not entirely naked on a non-nude beach or wearing a suit made entirely of knives.

[Telegraph]

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  • ThirdAmendmentMan

    Islam is incompatible with freedom. We must free these women from Islamic oppression so WE can oppress them!

  • MynameisBernieBroBot

    Can you just feeeel those pearls being clutched?

    • theblackdog

      It needs more “WON’T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!”

      • MynameisBernieBroBot

        Better call HQ, we’re gonna need a LOT more fainting couches and smelling salts, STAT!

      • Nounverb911

        Said the obese man wearing a Speedo?

      • Michael Smith

        Well there was the implicit goal of freeing young girls from eventual imprisonment in burkinis.

    • kaydenpat

      Where o where are the fainting couches?

      • SuspectedDemocrat

        We’re at the beach, I need a fainting lounge chair.

        • MynameisBernieBroBot

          We got ’em, but it’ll cost ya!

        • Celtic_Gnome

          They’ve got fainting camp chairs now. Very nice. They come in a little case with a strap that makes them easy to haul around.

  • ArgieBargie

    It was an Itsy Bitsy Teenie Weenie Yellow Polka Dot Burkini
    that she wore for the first time today
    an Itsy Bitsy Teenie Weenie Yellow Polka Dot Burkini
    so in the locker Wingnuts wanted her to stay…♫

  • Spotts1701

    Is the government going to issue a manual or chart or something to women to say how much skin is appropriate for the beach?

    • Mr. Blobfish

      The gov’t should provide us with beach uniforms. That’s right. I’m a taker.

  • chascates

    Some people who wear Speedos should definitely be forced to wear burkinis.

    • duckshoe

      I have seen a LOT of men who should wear burqas, if we’re just going by aesthetics.

  • I just don’t see what the difference is between wearing a burquini and a dive suit. I just don’t.

  • Astraea

    As we all know, women experience absolutely no distress over wearing bikinis!

  • Callyson

    I find that argument gives me the same sinking feeling as a sign on the gate to a meadow saying, “Dogs Must Be Kept on a Lead”

    So this author is one of those assholes who keeps her big dog off-leash in the park, so it can run up to my little ones, terrifying them in the process, and I get to have to calm them the fuck down while I wait for said irresponsible dog owner to get her fucking dog to stop charging toward mine. Good to know!

    • DemmeFatale

      Not to mention the cows, and sheep, etc. that might be just around the corner in a GATED meadow.
      Dumb-ass!!
      What a self-righteous, and self-centered twit!

    • spends2much

      She is one of those assholes who knows what is best for everyone, all the time, and will happily tell you. She parks in a bus stop to get her Starbucks, because she’ll “only be a minute”; she tells mothers at the grocery store not to buy sugar for their kids because “sugar is poison, haven’t you heard?”.

      I loathe these people.

  • the Vagenda Manologues

    We need to resist the foreign and horrible and misogynist practice of telling women what they can and cannot wear to the beach by…

    • calliecallie

      …taking away their washing machines?

  • hendenburg2

    Do you want terrorism?

    Because that’s how you get terrorism!

    (okay, not necessarily the burkini bans themselves, but the constant denigration and disrespect of a culture and customs)

  • Rufus T. Firefly

    Hey British lady–get to back to us when your country has, you know, actual beaches.

    • Jennaratrix

      Um. I mean, yeah, make fun of this lady all you want, but as an island, the UK is literally surrounded by beaches. And some of them are pretty nice.

      • Perkniticky

        But they are usually cold enough to require extra covering… in fact, a burkini would probably be perfect beach wear for a British summer.

        • Jennaratrix

          Fair enough.

  • blondeiq

    This is not a zero-sum game. You can call out the oppression of women by the selective interpretations of hadith that are currently popular among extremist Muslims. You can also mind your own business at the beach and other places where women naturally occur. You can hold both of these ideas in your head at the same time. I know you can.

  • Michael Smith

    “Burkinis? Here’s Why We Should Fight Them On The Beaches,”

    ISWYDT with your Winston Churchill reference.

  • Msgr_Vagenda

    At least they’re not trying to dress like this Icelandic [ear] terrorist:

    • msanthrope

      Bjork libels!!1!

  • Beowoof14

    Ah so many involving themselves in the beliefs of others rather than letting them you know be free.

  • Gayer Than Thou

    Get back to me when there is a political proposal for mandatory thong swimsuits for 20-something college athletes. Then I’m totes ready to take up the cause (so long as middle-aged gay men can still wear caftans and muu-muus).

    • And all Olympic male beach volleyball players MUST wear Speedos.

    • willi0000000

      where can an old guy get one of those calftanny thingies?

      [ tired of scaring small children at the beach ]

      • Blank Ron

        Butterick pattern B5725.

    • Up until the 2012 Olympics, the International Volleyball Federation (FIVB) not only mandated that women’s beach volleyball players wear bikinis, but that those bikinis have “a maximum side width of seven centimeters (2.76 inches).”

  • JVisconti

    Kiss my butt Ms Pearson. I burn quickly and need help breathing at times,

  • ViveLaRes

    I always cover up at the beach, because of a minor skin cancer scare a few years ago. Am I going to jail?

    • MynameisBernieBroBot

      Yeah, sorry.
      Off to jail now!

      • Gayer Than Thou

        Plus side: being in jail will keep the skin pasty white.

        • MynameisBernieBroBot

          Silver linings my friend.
          Silver linings.

    • Astraea
      • willi0000000

        1. stupid . . . they could have just asked her to leave if her clothing was poking their god in the eye that hard . . . but that kinda kills the shaming aspect of the whole thing.

        B. that’s not a beach, it’s a gravel pit!

    • GoutMachine

      Only if you’re brown and/or muslin.

  • Lance Thrustwell

    Two thoughts need to be held here, in the head:

    1) Some women undoubtedly wear burkinis (and veils, and hijabs, etc., etc.) not out of “personal choice” but out of a fear of censure or worse from their families, husbands and Muslim communities. This is wrong, because all irrational curtailing of women’s rights is wrong.

    2) Women should be able to wear (within reason) whatever they want, wherever they want, period.

    Because principle 2) does not require mind reading, it has to take precedent over principle 1), which does require mind reading.

    I consider this position inarguable, but perhaps I’m missing something.

    • grindstone

      Logic and nuance? Get outta here with that stuff, Allison is pontificating!

      Look, I don’t like religion, because I’ve yet to see a religious ethos that doesn’t involve controlling people’s behavior and treating women differently up to downright oppressing them. I really dislike religions that have such blatant double standards that men can do what they like while women have to cover up, lest woman, the weaker sex, somehow make the stronger man stumble somehow through the almighty power of the cleavage. Fuck all that.

      But that’s me. And I have the distinct luxury to choose whether to be religious or not, and the only price I pay is that my mother-in-law has the vapors over the fact that my son won’t be going through confirmation. That’s it. When Allison has to put on the line what these women may have to put on the line, THEN she can talk.

  • limberrat

    Well clearly the solution is to write a law where women wear tiny bikinis. That will clearly resolve this issue of women wanting to dress modestly!

    Seriously though, how is what she is wearing different from what was worn nearly 100 years ago or worn by cold water swimmers?

    • Jennaratrix

      Yeah, that’s the other thing. Turn of the century women’s swimwear was more modest than what most of us usually wear to work now.

  • Jennaratrix

    Oh my UGH. I just, and the thing, and I … GAH.

    Okay, look. Do burkinis look enormously uncomfortable to me? Yep. Would I wear one? Nope, and I don’t have to worry about it because I have chosen to believe in the provable or at least rational rather than magic sky men. But my dog, what the fuck does it matter to me or anyone else what these women wear to go swimming in? How is this even an issue for anyone OTHER than those women themselves? I mean, if they’re being oppressed and they don’t WANT to wear those and they fight against it, I’ll support them. But I sure as shit am not going to go in all white knighting “for” them out of some misguided bullshit scaredy pants crap on MY part that actually has nothing to do with them.

    Besides. Now that I am more or less officially A Old, I ain’t wearing a suit without some coverage; no one needs to see my hail damage, least of all me. If the idea that you can only wear itsy bitsy teeny weenie yellow polka dot bikinis (see? A Old) is put forth, I’m in serious trouble and will never set foot in or near a body of water again. The days of the barely-there zebra print (yes, really) bikini that can not even charitably be called a swim suit are OVER. (In all fairness, those days should never have even existed, but hey. If you (think) you’ve got it, flaunt it until the cellulite takes over).

    What were we talking about?

    • Good_Gawd_Yall

      But, see, when you ask how does this matter to you, you’ve overlooked the central point of Allison’s argument, which is “I can type a bunch of malarkey and then they will pay me.”

      • Jennaratrix

        I just typed a bunch of malarkey. Where’s my money?

    • Serai 1

      Psst. Prefacing your freedom post with “these people are fucking stupid” kinda undermines the sincerity of your defense of them. Just sayin’ – sometimes the virulent disdain isn’t really necessary in order to make the point.

      • Jennaratrix

        I’m sorry, you lost me; where did I call someone fucking stupid? Not that I wouldn’t if I thought it was warranted, but I’m not seeing it.

        • Serai 1

          Oh, semantics. Fine, whatever.

  • Belasaurius

    I don’t know where to land here. On the one hand, people should be able to practice their religious expression, on the other hand, those clothes are a symbol of male oppression of the female body based on a shitty interpretation of scripture written by patriarchal assholes. Is there a winning side here?

    • dshwa

      Part of the argument is anti men as well as full on misogynistic; the burka is necessary because men can’t be trusted not to attack and rape a woman clothed in anything else. So while it conveniently blames women for rapes, it also degrades men to being no better than animals. Religion is weird.

      • Michael Smith

        Our own society’s issue with rape comes down to basically the same thing.

        • dshwa

          Yes. We’re not all that different even though we pretend they are

    • AngryKatie

      You interpret them that way. Many Muslim women that choose to wear them interpret them very differently. You’re projecting your own cultural interpretation and assuming it’s a blanket truth.

    • Jennaratrix

      Yeah. The winning side is the side the woman in question is on.

    • Astraea

      Yeah, I totally get this. But just about everything women wear is a bit fraught with social pressures, interpretations, and expectations. Regular swimsuits and bikinis are just as compromised with patriarchal expectations, with millions of “bikini body” headlines to remind us every spring.

      The answer isn’t banning a piece of clothing, it’s in empowering women in all areas of life so that we are finally as free as men to make choices without economic or physical consequences.

  • Nounverb911

    Coming soon for men “The BURQUEEDO!”
    https://media0.giphy.com/media/LPy2vivNPTQS4/200.gif

    • Jennaratrix

      Not soon enough for some men. I’M JUST SAYING.

    • bookish

      Feeling free…

    • Señor Skwerl

      How’d you get that GIF of me?

    • Mr. Blobfish

      Oh, great. The Canadians are here.

  • kaydenpat

    If you don’t like Burkinis, just don’t wear them. Simple. Problem solved.

    You don’t get to tell women what to wear even if you don’t like what they choose to wear. Simple. Problem solved.

    Easy, right?

  • Meanie-meanie, tickle a person

    whether or not … women ought to be allowed to wear … bathing suits that fully cover the skin and hair of the … women who
    choose to wear them.

    Dude peering through a Time-O-Scope from 1895 won’t know WTF to make of that…

    • Meanie-meanie, tickle a person

      Not so sure I do, either.

  • Callyson

    On Radio 4’s Any Questions, the Labour MP Cat Smith said: “It is absolutely offensive in the 21st century… when men with guns start policing what women should and shouldn’t wear.” Ms Smith was referring to cops on the beach in Nice who had been trying to enforce a ban on the burkini. It genuinely didn’t seem to occur to her that the men who are most keenly policing what women should and shouldn’t wear in the 21st century are the ones who belong to a repressive, misogynistic culture which denies females agency over their own bodies. Now, that’s what I call offensive.

    Sure, because it’s much less offensive when talking heads in the media tell women what to wear!

  • duckshoe

    Well, come on, we have to have well-defined policies telling women what to do, how to do it, where to do it, who they can do it with…otherwise women just stand there, chewing their cuds and staring into space. Can’t have that.

  • Look, there are plenty of reasons to not like Islam, a peaceful woman otherwise wearing a wet suit to the beach that covers what a Victorian era swimsuit would cover is not one of them.

  • Ms.MLG1979

    One of the most fun parts of being a woman is everyone trying to control you constantly.

    • Lance Thrustwell

      Would you mind rephrasing that?

      • Ms.MLG1979

        Not at allll.

        One of the most fun parts of being a woman is telling people who try to control me to fuck off!

        • Lance Thrustwell

          Hee.

        • sw19womble

          Well I never! You know, such language is not very ladylike!

        • Señor Skwerl

          Quit emasculating us!

    • Jennaratrix

      I know! It’s so great! “Why aren’t you smiling? Why don’t you wear makeup? Why do you wear so much makeup? You’re already so tall, why do you wear heels? Why do you wear such short skirts? Why are you wearing pants? Speak up, don’t be a little shy girl! Why are you shouting?”

      It’s so great. I don’t know what I’d do if I wasn’t constantly being told what to do and how to do it.

      • arglebargle

        There, there.

        • Jennaratrix

          I know. I should calm down.

          • Good_Gawd_Yall

            Are you on your period or something?

          • janecita

            Relax (my personal favorite)

          • Serai 1

            Oh, that fucking “calm down” crap. And it’s always a guy, isn’t it?

          • janecita

            Yup, they really love to use that damn word.

      • Ms.MLG1979

        I have short hair. You can imagine….

        • Blank Ron

          The g/f has lustrous waist-length ginger hair. She gets told it’s too LONG, because of her age. (Not by me. Yow!)

          • Ms.MLG1979

            See. If you’re going to be criticized for every thing you do, because people think of you as property, might as well do what you want.

          • edith prickly

            My hair is longer now that it was when I was in my twenties. Being middle-aged means not having to give a fuck anymore about what people think of your looks.

          • Serai 1

            My grandmother had a mane of nearly black hair down to her ankles. Sure, she was short but hey – it was FUCKING GORGEOUS.

            Your g/f can tell them, “If you don’t like the way I look, you can go look at somebody else.” That usually shuts the idiots up.

          • Blank Ron

            She does, and it does. She can be quite acerbic when she gets her Irish up. (Father’s side, IIRC.)

          • Serai 1
        • Jennaratrix

          Mine is finally growing back after I cut it all off. “Oh, you’re so lucky you can get away with that! But why would you do it?!?”

          • Ms.MLG1979

            Why, oh why, would you choose what is on your own body?! What you have to maintain? What you have to pay for? Who is gonna think of what everyone else wants you to do?!

          • Mezzaluna

            My answer to that is “It’s in my face all the time. And who wants long hair if you have to pull it back all the time?”

          • Serai 1

            I do. My hair is almost always tied back, but FUCK if I’m going to cut it. (If I had the money, I’d go to the local hair place and have it dyed some outrageously artistic color scheme, now that I have all this white hair to play with.)

      • the Vagenda Manologues

        You look so pretty when you smile.

    • Belasaurius

      and playing with your boobs, I’d never leave the house

      • Serai 1

        I could never be a woman. I’d just sit around the house and play with my breasts all day. — Steve Martin

    • rosenbomb

      I’ve found the phrase “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” applies nicely to my experience as a woman.

      • Ms.MLG1979

        There is no right way to be a woman, so we can just do whatever we want!

      • disqus_lWwzrwNaw6

        I’ve found my experience as a woman is pretty much summed up by just, “Damn!”

      • Serai 1

        Paradoxy states that if you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t, you’re also blessed if you do and blessed if you don’t. :)

    • Michael Smith

      Fun? Hmm.. so that’s why that No Doubt song “Just A Girl” is so upbeat.

    • janecita

      I know! Having complete strangers telling me to smile, and to speak more because I have such a sexy accent, totally makes my day!!

      • Ms.MLG1979

        Let’s start telling dudebros to wear tighter pants so we can get a better look at their packages. Unbutton your shirt, honey. I don’t like that beard. You’d be handsome if….

      • Good_Gawd_Yall

        Could you repeat that? I missed your point because I was distracted by your sexy accent.

      • Serai 1

        What I really love is having everything I say about my own life called into question because I can’t possibly be SERIOUS about that!

    • TheGrandWaz00

      Freedom is slavery. We’re just trying to help.

  • wfb812

    “However, I also know a number of super badass feminist Muslims who don’t take shit from any man, and who wear hijabs for their own religious reasons, not just because a man told them they have to.”

    I think you might want to reconsider that line …

  • calliecallie

    The other side of this coin are those who would ban too much skin on the beach. I recall a beach conversation with someone about a young woman in a thong. My feeling was that if I had an ass like that, I’d wear a thong too. The person I was talking with was somewhat scandalized.

    • janecita

      I lived in Sweden for a while and one (windy) day I was walking around the old town with my mother. In front of us there was this young woman wearing a very short skirt, a gust of wind lifted up her skirt and we got to see her very bare ass. My mom looks at me and says “If I had a perfect ass like that, I would never, ever wear panties.”

      • calliecallie

        Your mom sounds awesome!

        • janecita

          She is:-)

    • Good_Gawd_Yall

      I once nursed my infant son at a swimming pool – though I was under a towel at the time, a young girl wearing less fabric than my aunt’s handkerchief had quite a number of comments to make about the inappropriateness of nursing in public. SMH

  • SuspectedDemocrat

    “Here’s why we should fight them on the beaches” made me think of this
    http://i.makeagif.com/media/7-22-2015/nSl2uJ.gif

  • AngryKatie

    Having seen my share of British tourists at the beach, I’m going to assume she’s only going to be happy if all ladies are parading around barely clothed, sun-burnt on only one side of their body, drunk, and acting like hoors.

    Sit down right now Allison Pearson, before you really piss me off.

    • janecita

      The locals hate their drunken, loud, naked asses in Barcelona.

    • That doesn’t sound totally unpleasant to me…

  • Jar Of Lies (MCP)

    I have yet to see a burkini here in Tampa Bay, though I’d probably still find elderly European men wearing grape smugglers more offensive to my tender sensibilities.

    Regardlesss, there’s nothing forcing one to stare that I’m aware of.

  • Mr. Blobfish

    What she means to say is muzzies go home. England for the English. Pip pip and all that sort of thing.

    • hendenburg2

      To be fair, I’d probably be deported from England for not sticking out my pinky while drinking tea

      • SuspectedDemocrat

        Who knew you could get your visa revoked for constantly trying to get everyone to say “we are not amused” and then laughing hysterically.

  • janecita

    How ironic, a British woman complaining about what a Muslim woman was wearing, in a Muslim country! Btw, a true feminist would never tell another woman what to wear.

    • Lance Thrustwell

      No True Feminist!

  • azeyote

    i’ve spent a couple years in florida, i’ve seen some of the fattest euopean men, and women ever wearing thongs – even now the memory of that horror won’t fade – i think burkinis should be a serious option

    • Jar Of Lies (MCP)

      Yeah. Perhaps the next generation Google Glass will allow for the black censor bars in everyday life.

  • JohnBull

    Freedom’s great except when other people have some.

  • calliecallie

    Did Dominic go back to school? I miss his morning briefing.

    • Spotts1701

      He finally dug through the wall with his spoon.

  • Lefty Frizzell

    Hmm – I can actually understand Allison Pearson’s point, although banning burkinis is not the answer. I’m not sure what is.

    To western eyes it appears to be an unfair and demeaning dress code, which is something appropriate to challenge. If there was some way to encode into law that no one should be forced to wear a burkini that would be cool, but would be fraught with complications in practice.

    But what if the burkini wearer actually wants to wear it? What about that? It seems strange to me, maybe almost Stockholm syndrome-ish, but it’s not my place to remove the choice.

    • Lance Thrustwell

      Exactly! There’s a problem – that is, assuming that not 100% of the burkini-wearers are doing it of their own free will, which I think is a reasonable assumption – but outlawing the burkini is so freakin’ obviously not the solution!

      • Good_Gawd_Yall

        But how do we know or, in actual practice, discover, whether or not a woman in a burka or burkini is wearing one because she wants to? Are we to ask every woman so dressed “Hey! Are you being oppressed? Because to our way of thinking you sure look like you are!” I mean, this foolish writer just hasn’t thought this through. I hope.

  • weejee

    Does this mean I should change my Wonkville phantasy phutball league team name from the Burquini Zika Jihadists?

    • Good_Gawd_Yall

      Unless you have enough cookies for ALL of the Dept. of Homeland Security, the NSA, and the FBI, perhaps so.

  • Callyson

    And please spare me the howls of concern for the rights of women to dress as they please when there is zero anger about the rights of women forced into ugly, repressive garments by a bunch of medieval misogynists. Just look at the wonderful smiles of those women in Syria the other week who cast off their burkas as soon as Isil had departed.

    And since there is nothing contradictory about both supporting the right of women not to be forced to wear a particular garment and supporting the right of women to wear what they want, what exactly is your point?

  • Michael Smith

    British Lady:

    I think that if liberating Islamic women is really what you care about, you would recognize the nuance here and so wouldn’t call for a burkini ban.

    I think that you actually see this as a politically feasible way to push for a law that “takes a stand against Islam” and against the tolerance of minority cultures in general. To send a message that if you want to live in Western society, you had better be willing to conform to it to a greater degree than you seem to be doing now.

    However – this is the tricky thing – there is probably a point in which a group’s internal rules and customs are so clearly oppressive against probably unwilling participants that the state has a good reason to intervene. This just doesn’t seem like its it.

  • Señor Skwerl
    • SuspectedDemocrat

      Not without my straw hat!

    • Blank Ron

      That’s more or less what I wear at the beach now. Nobody wants to see what six decades of enjoying good food can do to a person.

      • MynameisBernieBroBot

        Same here.
        I don’t wanna expose my catfish belly to nobody.

  • Treg Brown

    I guess it really depends on which religious swimwear we’re talking about.

    • I’ve seen women at the beach here wearing similar outfits. I can only imagine how uncomfortable that must be. To be fair, the men wear mom jeans and buttoned up shirts, so everybody looks miserable.

      • Serai 1

        I don’t understand why clothing would be more uncomfortable on the beach than anywhere else. So long as you’ve got reasonable footwear, how is a dress or a jacket suddenly uncomfortable because there’s surf nearby?

        • Because they go in the water and in those long dresses and then walk around in dripping wet clothes for the next few hours going “Slork slork slork slork”.

          And ocean water along the east coast of the US is murky and smelly even when it’s still in the ocean. After about 30 minutes you and your clothes really reek of dead fish and jellyfish farts. Not a good smell for the long ride back to the compound.

          • Serai 1

            I suppose, but why the assumption that the only reason to be at the beach is to go into the water?

  • Beanz&Berryz

    and… here with the icy cold Pacific, what is the difference between a burkini and a wet suit?

    • dshwa

      Because Reasons!

  • dshwa

    Of all the problems the world is facing, how did swimwear become the most urgent?

    • Jennaratrix

      They lost the battle on bathrooms/marriage equality/segregation/you name it?

    • Blank Ron

      Yeah, aren’t there still bathrooms to police?

    • SuspectedDemocrat

      Now that we’ve settled the crisis of sportsball players not standing up as per protocol, we can move on to other pressing issues.

    • JohnBull

      Almost as urgent as standing during a national anthem.

  • loser_sneeze

    “I love women so much I must tell them what to do and protect them from other people telling them what to do”. Wanker.

  • baconzgood

    There are beaches in Brittan?

    • Blank Ron

      It’s an island, so technically that makes it ALL beach.

      • baconzgood

        I think I’m going to take a relaxing dip in the North Sea.

        • Blank Ron

          Can’t be any worse than the Kawarthas at Easter. It was a point of honour to go for a swim as soon as the last ice was off the lake.

          • baconzgood

            I’ve done polar bear club here in pittsburgh. Every new year’s day people jump into the polluted Ohio River at the point.

          • Blank Ron

            Perhaps runoff from the steel plants upriver is some sort of insulator?

      • Rick Hill

        Would that make Africa an island or a peninsula?

        • MynameisBernieBroBot

          Yes!

        • Msgr_Vagenda

          How can a country be an island?

          • sw19womble

            Ask Iceland

          • Msgr_Vagenda

            Just because they call themselves Island doesn’t make it so.

          • MynameisBernieBroBot

            ‘Stralia!

        • sw19womble

          An isthmus

          • Rick Hill

            Don’t start bringing algebra into this discussion

      • MynameisBernieBroBot

        Except for the inland parts.

        • Royal Ugly Dude, Esq.

          Exactly. This is why all those inland counties refused to pay the Ship Tax to Charles I.

          • nightmoth

            I LOVE the knowledge nuggets I find on here!

          • Rick Hill

            Those can also be used as compost or fertilizer

        • Meanie-meanie, tickle a person

          And the mountainy parts, and the cliffy parts, especially the ones with all the chalky stuff on ’em. And the bogs. Especially the bogs…

          • MynameisBernieBroBot

            And the moors…
            Keep off the moors…

    • Msgr_Vagenda
  • Vincent Ricola

    I wear shorts and a tank top to swim at my local pool because it’s filled to the brim with gross pervs. If someone told me that I now need to wear a sexy bikini because the gross pervs don’t appreciate my attire, I would feel objectified and would probably never return to the pool.

    Gee, it’s almost like this Allison lady is trying to frame her exclusive message as feminism when she really just wants to keep Muslimy people out of her direct view.

  • Villago Delenda Est

    OK, so I guess that this woman has no problems with being coerced to show her tits if that’s what fashion on the beach dictates.

    Frankly, that burkini is a bit too colorful, too!

  • Crystalclear12

    As a full figured gal I have been looking for a full length bathing suit for years!
    Also an atheist.

    • Msgr_Vagenda

      Who cares if you’re so poor you can’t afford
      To buy a pair of mod a go-go stretch-elastic pants…
      There will come a time when you can even
      Take your clothes off when you dance

      — The Mothers.

    • MynameisBernieBroBot

      Sounds perfect to me so far.

    • sw19womble

      You’ve been looking for an atheist?
      For one of your satanic rituals, no doubt!

    • Ms.MLG1979

      I’m a full figured gal, and I do the opposite. I like to display my best assets. And that’s my choice. And covering up more is your choice. It’s nobody’s business. Period.

      • Crystalclear12

        Exactly!

        • Jenvenda Manocide

          ya’lll sound like some of them tolerant libtard folk what don’t figure anyone should be able to tell other people- especially women- what they can and cannot wear.

      • Meanie-meanie, tickle a person

        Ahem. Uncover enough, and it’s *everybody*’s business…..

        • Ms.MLG1979

          Wow.

  • Msgr_Vagenda

    OT: If the Trump “poll monitors” exercise their Second Amendment right, John Legend may actually vote for Trump. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/john-legend-says-it-would-take-a-gun-to-his-head-to-vote-for-donald-trump_us_57c57bc4e4b0664f13ca54d8?section=&

  • Vagendajohn

    Irrational fear of Islam in the West is starting to resemble the anti-semitism that swept through much of Europe in the late 19th century. France and England were not immune.

    • Villago Delenda Est

      J’Accuse!

  • Courser

    In my experience, the young Muslim women I’ve spoken to don’t where hijabs because of pressure, social or otherwise. Sure, it’s part of Islam, but many American Muslim women choose not to wear hijabs, while some do. It’s actually a personal decision. But I know that most of the women I spoke to wore it because they don’t want to be seen as a sex object or plaything by men. It’s part of their personal pride and confidence. At lot more goes into it than simply ‘religion’.

    Everyone should be free to wear whatever they choose to the beach. Burkinis aren’t hurting anyone else.

    • Blank Ron

      As always, the world is full to the brim of people who can be easily hurt by things that people they don’t even know do. Why, just thinking that those things might be happening gives them the screaming fantods!

  • I’m glad we freedom-loving counties don’t impose strict mandates on how much of your body you have to cover with clothing like those oppressive Muslim countries do, officer.

    • OddMan

      Bingo! You hit it.

  • sw19womble

    Good old-fashioned victorian values!

  • PubOption

    I’m surprised that the writer wasn’t Katie Hopkins.

    • sw19womble

      Needz moar sneering and callousness

  • kareemachan

    Amazing how people feel the need to tell other people what to do in the name of FREEDUMB!!!!1!!!

    • Villago Delenda Est

      You will be free! You will be free if I have to force you at gun point to do so!

      Also, too, line up straight! Dress that line! In the name of FREEDUMB!

      • Meanie-meanie, tickle a person

        Pyle!

  • Bureaucrap

    What about high heels, the western version of forced sexism become social norm? Asking for a drag queen friend.

    • Jennaratrix

      If you’re hot, a little dumb, and not too tall, they’re okay. If you’re what some consider overweight or not conventionally attractive, nope. If you’re taller than 5’6″ you don’t need them. If you’re smart, you should be smart enough to know that heels are a tool of the patriarchy, and you shouldn’t wear them. If you’re too young, you shouldn’t wear them because it makes you look like you’re trying to look older. If you’re A Old, you shouldn’t wear them, because who are you trying to impress? If they’re too sexy, they’re “stripper heels” and you shouldn’t wear them.

      What am I forgetting?

      • Villago Delenda Est

        Sensible shoes. What a radical concept!

        • Jennaratrix

          Fuck sensible shoes. I’m sensible in the rest of my life, if I want to risk death or broken bones for cute shoes, I’mma do it. Even if I am old and nearly six feet tall.

          • Villago Delenda Est

            You can say that because you’re not Lil’ Marco.

          • Jenvenda Manocide

            You wear the cute ones, I’ll wear my comfy sandals, and we’ll both be happy ^.^
            Because fuck this noise for real. So tired of people telling women what they should be wearing.

          • Jennaratrix

            Precisely. And I switch between sensible/stripperesque. Because that’s the point, we can wear what we want.

          • SeekingBarbie

            Sometimes I wear my comfy sandals WITH SOCKS! That really annoys the fashion police.

          • Jenvenda Manocide

            I know ^.^ I do the same and the looks I get from the Barbie moms a the schools makes it sooo worthwhile.
            Hey my toes get cold and I hate shoes. So there.

          • SeekingBarbie

            In warmer weather I sometimes wear light little socks to keep my skin from rubbing sores and keep my feet clean. Also, my feet are not regulation size and sandals with socks are often the most comfortable footwear.

          • Jenny

            My crazy Nanny had a stroke but refused to wear sensible shoes (she never owned a pair of sneakers) and even refused to wear one of her many jelly flats. Nope. Heels. She had something to prove, dammit.

            Needless to say we ended up holding her up around town because she also didn’t want to be seen with a cane or a walker.

            Her beauty parlor was some old country dive with a rock parking lot. Trying to get her through the parking lot was some frustrating bullshit, but ridiculously british comedy hilarity.

          • Ms.MLG1979

            Awesome.

      • OddMan

        My sweetheart and I call those 5 inch tall stilettos, “Fuck-me” heels.

        • Villago Delenda Est

          You’re not the only ones.

      • Meanie-meanie, tickle a person

        Danger of falling…

    • AnOuthouse

      Sarah Palin thinks they’re swell. They make her feel fuckable.

  • Relativicus

    How is Friedman getting around if his cab driver is in Europe?

  • baconzgood

    ” I found myself gazing at the little girls and wondering how long. How long before they had to put away their pretty bikinis and their Caramac tummies, how long before they would never know the bliss of sun and sea on their skin again?”

    Get that fucking lady off the beach and away from those kids.

    • Jennaratrix

      Right? Because that wasn’t even remotely creepy. And I don’t even know what a Caramac tummy is.

      • Blank Ron
        • sw19womble

          Mmmm caramac….

          • ColumbusLib

            Caramacs are delicious! I ate them all the time when I lived in Hawaii. Caramel + macadamia = Caramac

      • OddMan

        I had to go look it up, Caramac is a caramel flavored candy bar. Now it is even more creepy.

        • Jennaratrix

          They look delicious. I want Caramac in mah belleh.

          • sw19womble

            Warning: They’re so sugary that you can actually feel your teeth falling out as you bite down.
            Good with a cup of tea (or coffee) tho.

          • Grizz1y

            Are they like Cadburry’s Caramello? That’s like asking for Diabetes. Tasty, tasty diabetes.

          • Teecha

            They are lovely. And a nice colour. Weird to use as a descriptor for skin tho.

      • Nockular cavity

        Avoid Caramac Tummy With These MIRACLE FOODS!

    • GoutMachine

      Stranger danger!

  • OddMan

    Jesus H. Christ on a Ritz Cracker™! When the hell did people that worship one magic sky spirit become so damned scared of someone else’s magic ski spirit. Really? You are that afraid of someone who wears different clothes? All because their MSS is different from yours?

    As a recovered Roman Catholic all I can say is . . . Fuck Religion.

    • Villago Delenda Est

      Same magic sky spirit. They just have a different name for the sky spirit. Which of course makes all the difference under the sun!

    • sw19womble

      Ski spirit? Welp, to be fair, Krampus is pretty scary :<

    • Jar Of Lies (MCP)

      AOTT,K. All Of The Time, Katie.

    • Meanie-meanie, tickle a person

      When the hell did people that worship one magic sky spirit become so damned scared of someone else’s magic ski spirit. Really?

      In all seriousness, it was a long-ass time ago, probably about 5 minutes after some cave-person discovered some other cave-person kneeling and making burnt offerings to a giant tree, instead of the Great Bush that everyone (in CP#1’s cave) knew without a doubt was God of Everything. It has since become something of a sport for Earth-Humans…

      • OddMan

        I can see worshiping a great tree that gives us oxygen, shade, building materials, and maybe fruit. Or worship a bush for food, drink, clothing, even pleasure from eating or smoking it.
        But the worship of a unknown magic sky spirit who seems to have the major rule that, “Thou shalt have no other gods but me, and I’ll damn you to hell if you worship the wrong god”? That is where I finally said nope.

    • clubseal

      I tried, but religion wanted too much of a commitment.

    • Serai 1
      • OddMan

        That wonderful Dancing Jesus™ looks a little like Ashton Kutcher.

        • Serai 1

          He’s That Jesus from every sugary prayer card and little kids’ bedroom portrait ever.

  • Wild Cat

    Pale British Lady also quite upset she’s not attractive or talented enough to star in a Beurette film.

  • Panika MCD

    ugh.

  • SnarkOff

    If I’m not a Muslim, but just super pale with some cellulite I’d prefer not to show off, may I wear a burkini?

    • janecita

      I don’t know, but I’m about to burn all my clothes and buy 5 or 6 burkas. It would make my morning routine a lot easier. “What should I wear today, the burka or the burka”?

      • nightmoth

        Go hijab, not full burka. Seriously, the burkas are awful. I tried one on. It was brought back from Afghanistan by an American woman who was teaching in a girls school until things got too dangerous. That little net square over the eyes is so small that it totally fucks with your peripheral vision—just like a cart horse with blinders. Afghan women are prone to walking into things and getting injured by motorbikes, according to teacher-woman.

    • Good_Gawd_Yall

      That would depend on whether or not you are wearing it because you are being oppressed by a nasty male hegemony.

      • SnarkOff

        I think being forced to essentially appear in your skimpiest underwear at the beach is its own form of oppression. And I say this as someone with a decent body, actually.

    • Msgr_Vagenda

      We will accept Paint bikinis.

    • MynameisBernieBroBot

      Yes….but you’d have to convert to Islam right afterward.

  • TJ Barke

    People different! Different scary!

    • sw19womble

      ..

      • TJ Barke

        This fuckin’ guy…

  • Sedagive

    Shorter invocation of Churchill: “We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender”… to the burkini.

  • baconzgood

    If you really want to ban something at beaches I suggest fat hairy guys playing volleyball in Speed-Os.

    • Jar Of Lies (MCP)

      That infamous Top Gun will never be the same again!

      The only thing worse would be hearing, “You can ride my tail anytime, Maverick!”.
      At a John McCain stump speech.

    • nightmoth

      Now, now—just watch it like a NatGeo special!

  • Pickle Truther (AntiDerpomeme)

    Meanwhile, in my local paper, there is a story about a brouhaha on a French beach because a woman was sunbathing topless and taunting turned to a physical altercation. The woman was beaten in front of her kid. Not cool, local scolds. In a sane world, we’d let women wear what they damn well wanted.

    • Msgr_Vagenda

      This is why we can’t have nice things. (i.e. Boobies)

      • Pickle Truther (AntiDerpomeme)

        Right? The beach wasn’t a naturist one, but people are going to complain about that?!

    • Nockular cavity

      Well, you can’t have women showing their boobs. What if kids saw that? Beating up mommy, however, that’s perfectly acceptable for kids to see.

      • Villago Delenda Est

        This makes absolute sense to me.

        I must be an American.

      • nightmoth

        Yeah, kids only get to see boobs when they’re full of milk, before the kids learn that those amazing mammalian assets are REALLY just to make men horny.

    • DainBramage

      Wow, that’s sad. When I was in France, in the 80s, we went to this beach on the Dordogne River a lot where women went topless all the time. Young women and middle aged farmers alike (this was a pretty rural part of the country).

      • Pickle Truther (AntiDerpomeme)

        It’s weird that this was an issue at all, since I see topless women at lots of beaches. And yes, age doesn’t seem to matter. I have read some articles about how French women’s attitudes towards toplessness are shifting because of fears of skin cancers and wrinkling and a bit more modesty in the younger generations. But certainly, it’s been a very permissive culture towards freeing the beach boobies for half a century. Honestly, I think this dumb burkini mess has emboldened idiots to heap scorn on the ladies, no matter how attired.

    • Serai 1

      Wait a minute. I thought sunbathing topless was a national thing in France? I knew there was a reason I’ve always found French people obnoxious.

    • DinkyBossetti

      So French beaches are like Goldilocks? You can’t wear too much. You can’t wear too little. You have to wear something that’s juuuuuuust right.

  • Msgr_Vagenda

    kinda OT. I keep confusing Islam and Iceland today. I think it’s these signs I kept seeing in the Czech.

  • Royal Ugly Dude, Esq.

    C’mon, Europeans. What part of “clothing optional” don’t you understand?

  • Spurning Beer

    Dear French persons,
    Behold your countryman, Jacques Cousteau, in a burkini.
    -S. Beer

    • Msgr_Vagenda

      Zoot allures!

  • Nockular cavity

    I didn’t realize you people are anti-knifekini. GOODBUY 4EVER WONQETT!!!

    • Msgr_Vagenda

      Gunkini or GTFO!

      • Pickle Truther (AntiDerpomeme)

        What about a suit made entirely of clogs? Asking for a friend.

        • Msgr_Vagenda

          Zoo animals would work. We’d call it a zoo-kini.

          • clubseal

            I’ll make one out of pens. A Bic-ini, if you will.

          • Msgr_Vagenda

            I’ll make one out of combinations of unit squares in different colors, a Tetris-ini, if you will.

          • Serai 1

            I’d prefer one one made of words. You know, a Lingu-ini.

          • Meanie-meanie, tickle a person

            That idea needs to be squashed…

          • Spurning Beer

            That the same as a fur-kini?

          • Msgr_Vagenda

            No. One is called a zoo-kini.

          • Serai 1

            If you make a hybrid, it could be a bifur-kini.

      • BrianW
  • Jenvenda Manocide

    ya ever wonder where the concept of freedom of expression went wrong?
    Now it seems you may only express yourself, freely, if you do it the way the correct people tell you to do it, while wearing only what the correct people say you should wear.
    Huh. Almost as if people want to keep all the liberties for themselves and deny them to those with whom they disagree.

    • Villago Delenda Est

      A female Captain in one of my units used to say that for her, the great thing about the Army was she didn’t have to decide what to wear in the morning.

    • Meanie-meanie, tickle a person

      ya ever wonder where the concept of freedom of expression went wrong?

      No, I just wonder where it *went*…

  • Vagendajohn

    How the hell do you outlaw clothing? I mean, what even the fuck? Why just the beach garb? What about men’s Islamic traditional dress? Is this really just about wanting to see Muslim boobs and buns? Do these people know there are Muslim women all over the US and other western countries – and any number of places in the Islamic world – not wearing burkas?

    Yes, I know. I’m talking to myself.

    • sw19womble

      Someone please get back to me when the government has passed the precise level of clothing deemed acceptable, with regional/seasonal adjustments.
      Also, maybe a little badge to confirm ethnicity or religion, that’d really help!

      • Spotts1701

        “Regulation 46-72/1 – governing the appropriate wearing of socks”

        • sw19womble

          As long as there’s a No-Pants Amendment for us Wonketeers, then fuck y’all I got mine.

        • Grizz1y

          Does it ban socks with sandals? Asking for a friend.

          • SeekingBarbie

            Wikipedia reports that some consider it “a high crime of fashion.” So yes. Interestingly, it is a crime largely committed by men, so I am doubly damned.

          • Spotts1701

            Socks with sandals? Ten years in “the hole” for you, bud!

        • Meanie-meanie, tickle a person

          Sub-paragraph 1: No Clocks!

      • Good_Gawd_Yall

        It could be a little star, or a triangle, or something. Maybe yellow? or pink? Just spitballing.

        • Serai 1

          Green, obviously. And it should be a crescent moon.

      • Serai 1

        Kinda makes you wonder about a country that uses “secularity” and “reason” to oppress people, doesn’t it? Yeah, not so much with the egalite there, France.

      • Teecha

        Elizabeth I had really strict clothing rules, depending on which of the ‘four sorts’ you were.
        https://youtu.be/nVMj_bwQQ3Q

    • Serai 1

      I see you never went to one of those schools where the teachers would accost the girls with a ruler to measure the length of their skirts.

      • Vagendajohn

        Yeah, I remember some of the pervs at my old alma mater measuring the girls’ skirts.

        • Serai 1

          Exactly. And now you know the rationale behind the ban.

  • Jenny

    Burkinis look just like wetsuits so uhh ok? Probably more important stuff to worry about like the rising ocean?

    • MynameisBernieBroBot

      Anything is more important than what someone wears to the beach.

      Except when it comes to men wearing Speedos. That’s just wrong.

      • Serai 1

        Depends on the man, dude.

        • I Only Like Cats

          Let’s ban them all just to be safe.

        • MynameisBernieBroBot

          No, I’m too hideous to wear them in public, therefore, BANNED!

          Seriously though, I should definitely not ever wear those, except as a prank.

          • Serai 1

            I’ve stayed away from bikinis for twenty years for the same reason, so I hear you there.

  • SeekingBarbie

    I used to wear a head scarf to keep my hair from blowing around in the wind, but that seems like a dangerous fashion statement to make in the current political atmosphere.

    • DainBramage

      When I was a kid going to Roman Catholic Mass, all the women and girls wore hats or scarves on their heads. I see now that the scarf wearers were terrorists.
      And don’t get me started on those wimples!

    • Serai 1

      Don’t let that stop you. I toss a scarf on whenever I feel like it, because I don’t give a fuck. Hell, I drove around blasting Middle Eastern music in my car after 9/11. The bigots can kiss my ass.

    • Mezzaluna

      It always looked so chic in the 1950s and 60s movies while in a convertible.

      • Teecha

        I had an ex-boyfriend who was into pre (first) war cars. They were all stupid and small and roofless. I always wore a scarf, else my hair tangled so much that it hurt to try and brush it. I matched the black scarf with red lipstick.

  • AnOuthouse

    If my dog is not on a lead in a meadow, I will no longer have a dog. Know-it-alls usually no nothing. Especially about my autistic dog and his hyper olfactory abilities.

    • Mezzaluna

      Is he a beagle? I’ve heard they are obsessive about following scents and will excerise selective deafness when they find something interesting.
      Ours just ignores us unless treats are visible. She appears to be a lab/beagle/princess mix.

      • Serai 1

        You sure she isn’t part cat?

    • DinkyBossetti

      If my dog is not on a leash, he could do physical damage to another dog or a person, and then I would no longer have a dog. I consider it my main job as his human to make sure he doesn’t do anything stupid that will get him killed. He’s very happy to walk and sniff in a meadow on a leash, because that’s the only way he’s walking and sniffing in a meadow.

  • TheGrandWaz00
    • sw19womble

      The one in the middle?

  • AnOuthouse

    Bless that bitch’s heart.

  • OddMan

    I wonder what Ms. Pearson thinks of men who wear skirts to the beach? Ban them too?

    • Redgyal

      Uh, no. :)

    • CatCope

      Yea, “Gentlemen, remove those skirts”!!

  • Vagendajohn
    • CatCope

      WTH are all those black things on the queen’s dress???? Looks like some sort of insects magnified 1000 times.

      • Teecha

        Bows!

  • Spurning Beer

    Next we gotta bear down on those fucking Amish.

  • Sedagive

    On the other hand: SPF 1000.

  • Iam Reading

    Let’s just ban clothing in all public spaces. There, absurdity played to its absurd ending.

  • Redgyal

    Yes. This is why they have all of those laws in Florida forbidding the local Mennonite and Amish women from visiting the beaches.

  • nightmoth

    Thx, Robyn, for picking up on this. I got into a small argument over at Atlantic, but bowed out, because one cannot argue with haters. The thing was designed by an Australian woman in order to give Muslim women the freedom to go to the beach. The extremists in Islam (Taliban, Isis) OPPOSE the burkini, because “no women at the beach, ever, stay the fuck at home.” So Ms. Pearson just luuurrves women so much her woman loving sensibilities are uber-offended by the sight of one in a burkini?
    Psssst–Feminism, bitch—-you’re doing it wrong!

    • I Only Like Cats

      Real feminism is letting women decide whether they want to regain their agency by showing their bodies off or by covering up.

      • nightmoth

        There was a story a couple of days ago about French policemen surrounding a Muslim woman in a burkini and FORCING her to remove her tunic or be arrested. The series of photos accompanying the article made me SO MAD I thought about flying to France just so I could wear a burkini on that beach and strip down to my aging nakedness when those assholes threatened me.

        • No, it’s worse — she wasn’t in a burkini. She was wearing normal clothes instead of swimwear, because she wasn’t intending to go in the water. But yeah, they totally made her take the top layer off. In public. If you grew up thinking you needed to keep all that private., or if you had any body issues for whatever reason, that would be intensely humiliating. Which, I’m sure, was the intent.

          Serve and protect, my sweet bippy.

      • Serai 1

        Yep. One thing I discovered about feminism back in the day is the great relief I felt when I realized I DO NOT have to show off my body if I don’t want to. I gave me short skirts to the Goodwill and never looked back.

    • Serai 1

      I’ve been a feminist since the Second Wave days of the 70’s, and I can tell you this woman is no feminist. She’s just a nosy bitch.

  • edith prickly

    Hmmm – if they called it a wetsuit instead of a burkini, would we be having this discussion? (Answer: yes, because the way you solve terrorism is by harassing Muslim women about what they wear.)

  • Jenny

    i haven’t worn a bikini since I was 12. I would never force another woman into something she wasn’t comfortable in. Leave people alone, it is none of your business feminist lady. You can’t save the world by force.

    • Sister Artemis

      though I know burkinis are the choice of many observant muslim women, who most likely also don’t have any interest in forcing other women to wear it or anything they don’t want to wear, I also imagine I’m not the only (non-Muslim) gal who looked at a burkini the first time and thought “wow, that looks rather sensible given skin damage due to sun and the jerks who unkindly oggle my middle-aged bulges and shark-bait skin whenever I put on a swiimsuit.”

      I support any woman choosing to wear what is appropriate for her, but also wonder if this won’t push women’s beach togs in a whole new direction.

  • DainBramage

    Obviously, we need to wear apparel that is government issued specifically for the day’s activities.

  • dshwa

    Making women wear burkinies denies them agency. So we’re going to make them wear something else!

  • Mezzaluna

    “I find that argument gives me the same sinking feeling as a sign on the gate to a meadow saying, “Dogs Must Be Kept on a Lead”.
    Because be able to go to the beach and swim with a covered body is exactly the same thing as preventing your dog from killing wild life and shitting in someone’s garden.

    • Royal Ugly Dude, Esq.

      It sounds like lots of people want to keep women on a lead.
      They’re just quibbling over how short it should be.

      • Mezzaluna

        Because woman on the loose are a much of a menace as an unleashed dog? Sadly, some feel the answer is yes.

  • I Only Like Cats

    I am pretty sure Muslim women can choose how to follow their own religion, and might actually feel more comfortable in what is basically a wetsuit with a swimming cap. (But also cuter than that.) Also, do these people realize that Mormons bathing suits look almost exactly the same? Do they care? And finally, I’m pretty sure that wife bought that bathing suit for herself, because if she allowed little girls to wear bikinis (trust me there are wetsuits for young children) that means everyone picked out their own suit.

    • Serai 1

      Maybe so, but it’s also true that covering oneself up completely is a thing Muslim girl children don’t have to do. They can be as comfy as they like until puberty – then they get dangerous and have to neutralize their FEERSUM POWERS OMG.

      • Shan the Libtart

        I kind of see it as how most Western women cover their boobs, no matter where they are. Because boobs have FEERSUM POWERS OMG and are highly sexualized to the point where even women nursing their babies are castigated but little girls can run around topless (I know I did when I was a kid).

        It’s just a matter of degrees of the same thing. The Muslim version of female modesty is a lot stricter than the Western standard. It’s what Muslim women, like other women who won’t go out with their breasts uncovered or in very short skirts or shorts, are comfortable with.

        I imagine the Muslim woman at the beach in Cannes who was ordered to remove her burkini felt exactly like most of the rest of us would feel if we’d been forced to take our tops off.

        • Debbies are like snowflakes

          I read an essay, years ago, about the forcible removal of hijab by the Iranian government in the 1930’s, and that is indeed what women felt.
          per Wikipedia:
          “Attempts at changing the dress code (and perspectives toward it) occurred in mid-1930s when pro-Western autocratic ruler Reza Shah issued an arbitrary decree, banning all veils abruptly, swiftly and forcefully…

          Western historians state that this would have been a progressive step
          if women had indeed chosen to do it themselves, but instead this ban
          humiliated and alienated many Iranian women, since its effect was comparable to the hypothetical situation in which the European women had suddenly been ordered to go out topless into the street.
          To enforce this decree, the police were ordered to physically remove the
          veil off of any woman who wore it in public. Women were beaten, their
          headscarves and chadors torn off, and their homes forcibly searched.”

          • Shan the Libtart

            Holy crap, I didn’t know about that.

          • Debbies are like snowflakes

            yeah, pretty awful. The woman who wrote the essay told about her mother, who had her veil ripped off in public, who felt only shame and humiliation.
            It was in a book of essays about the Veil, written by Muslim women (I wish I remembered the name of it) in answer to criticism of the wearing of the hijab; the central argument of all the essays was basically “wouldya let women choose what they get to wear, goddamit?!?”

          • Serai 1

            Kinda like Mao’s henchmen forcing foot-bound women to remove their bindings and walk. Which was basically IMPOSSIBLE since it caused excrutiating pain and lameness. Which the Maoists then laughed at, of course, because the STUPID WIMMINS didn’t know what was good for them.

        • Serai 1

          Well, the burqa isn’t a religious garment. It’s a bit of cultural weirdness given a religious excuse to make it seem legitimate. The Qu’ran only requires that women dress modestly (which it also requires of men), but nowhere does it say they have to cover themselves up so you can’t see them. It’s why you see burqas in some Muslim countries but not most – it doesn’t actually have anything to do with Islam at all.

          • Shan the Libtart

            Sure! I was just talking about cultural comfort levels is all, not necessarily about religion because I don’t actually KNOW about that.

          • Serai 1

            It’s an assumption that’s widely made about the burqa, because so few people are actually interested in learning about other ways of thought.

  • Serai 1

    I think all French women who side with the Muslims should go out and buy wetsuits and wear them to the beach. And swimming caps. (Do they still make those?) After all, wetsuits look JUST LIKE burkinis. Hell, they should buy burkinis, too! There should be CROWDS of fully covered up women at the beaches, such that it would be impossible to know who are the EVIL MOOSLIM TERRISTS and who aren’t. The cops would have a hell of a time trying to strip everybody, the racists would get the screaming meemies, and a good time would be had by all!

    • I Only Like Cats

      They do indeed still make swimming caps. They are very lovely.

      • Teecha

        • Serai 1

          I had one like that when I was a kid!

          • Vienna Woods

            God. I can smell the wet rubber smell that only a bathing cap has from here.

      • Heck, if we look at the Olympics, we’ll see not only do *all the swimmers have their hair covered*, but their swimsuits have been getting steadily larger each time. They go down to the knee now, for both men and women.

        Of course, that’s for performance, not modesty, but still…..

    • Mezzaluna

      And skin cancer rates would drop too.

      • Serai 1

        Everybody wins!

  • Mezzaluna

    The Australina-Lebanese woman who created this garment says about 40% of your customers are non-Muslim and wear the Burkini to protect their skin from the sun, among other reasons.
    https://mic.com/articles/152658/the-inventor-of-the-burkini-says-nearly-half-of-her-customers-are-not-actually-muslim#.paCNi5qE3

    • artem1s

      and this is their real problem with it. ‘those’ people are soiling our childrens culture.

    • Serai 1

      Australina! I like that. Much more classy than “Aussie”.

      • Mezzaluna

        I like it too. I will not edit my bad typing.

        • Serai 1

          You have coined a new word! Now we must all spread it. :)

          • DougW

            Do they speak Australingua?

    • MynameisBernieBroBot

      AHA!
      SEE!!! That’s how they GETCHA!

      https://media1.giphy.com/media/11P7GoTttUE1HO/200.gif

      • Kiri the Unicorn

        Before you know it, you’re eating falafel and liking it!!

        • MynameisBernieBroBot

          Oh deer goawd no!

          I….I…already like…no…I LOVE falafel!

          I’m a secret Muslin, aren’t I?

          • Cannedclamscanner

            Me too. I have a sister named Sherry. Coincidence?

          • MynameisBlarney

            I think NOT!

          • Kiri the Unicorn

            Possibly. How many old Cat Stevens albums do you own?

          • MynameisBlarney

            Uh…none actually.

          • Kiri the Unicorn

            Well…okay. Just remember that Pam Geller and Frank Gaffney will be going through your trash every week and doing disgusting things with it.

          • MynameisBlarney

            Ah, well…they can knock themselves out then.

    • Plushinobi

      That actually sounds like a good idea. I’m rather melanin-challenged and always wear a cover-up and tons of sunscreen, but a Burkini would probably be easier.

  • artem1s

    surely this woman voted for Brexit and knows that all the blahs and browns are going to be instantly deported, so no burkini problem, right?

  • Poly_Ester

    Do wingnuts have a theory that Sharia law is a virus for which there is no cure?

    • Serai 1

      I think they see it as more like contrails – invisible but eating away at your brain.

  • Mezzaluna

    British woman goes to beach is Turkey, is shocked to see Muslims there. Pictures at 11.

    • Serai 1

      British woman wears a bikini at the beach in Saudi Arabia, gets arrested, protests about her rights. Film at 11.

      • SpideySenser

        HAHA! Like she would even have any rights in SA. BTW, is a male family member with her? And did she drive herself to the beach? All things we take for granted. Also, too, might get acid thrown on her.

    • Cannedclamscanner

      I reread that a couple of times just to make Sure I got it right. I don’t think it’s Sharia law that’s taken over but Bizarro World is now flooding in.

  • fka_donnie_d
  • dluch

    apparently, the beaches used to be filled with terrorists

    • Cannedclamscanner

      See the stripes? They already were in jail. They just had a get out of jail free for the Day card

  • katz

    I find that argument gives me the same sinking feeling as a sign on the gate to a meadow saying, “Dogs Must Be Kept on a Lead”.

    A surefire way to prove how much you love women: Compare them to dogs!

    • Yeah. I couldn’t decide which part of that was worse: the comparison to dogs, or the implication that she doesn’t approve of leash laws. I mean, she didn’t say it’s like a leash law in that it means women are treated like livestock. She said she gets a sinking feeling whenever she sees a sign about leashes, so apparently she is opposed to the concept even when not looking for an excuse to be bigoted towards Muslim women.

  • Kiri the Unicorn

    Funny thing: in Oregon for much of the year, a “burkini” would be sensible beach wear.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iihoDxc4TI8

  • DougW

    I think a test is in order. Every woman who wishes to go to the beach must scream at their boyfriend/husband in a loud voice “You don’t own me you pig. I slept with every one of your friends, including the best man at our wedding in the vestibule of the church, and I did your dad too. None of the kids are yours!!!” Only then can we be really, TRULY sure that the women isn’t being horribly oppressed by the man in their life or by the strict laws of their religious sect. SOLVED!!!

    • Jenvenda Manocide

      Or you know, we could just not tell women what they can and cannot wear for their own good?

      • DougW

        Shhhhhh…. what are you doing, trying to ruin the patriarchy!??!??!??!

  • sweeper

    Wait a tick, orthodox Jewish women(and men) have been covering up and not touching people for a super long time too. Is that banned as well? I mean, I don’t observe that stuff, but I’d like to know which embassies to march up and down in front of.

  • chortlingdingo

    God forbid there might also be women who want to enjoy the beach without having to reapply sunscreen every 45 minutes to protect their lily white skin. Me. I’m talking about me. I burn so easily that I may go buy a freakin burkini for myself. Heck, I’d have bought one years ago if I knew such a thing was available.

    Also, “let’s protect religious freedom by prohibiting you from exorcising your religion”??!

    • Serai 1

      I don’t think religious freedom is a thing the French worry about. I guess they figure by making their society a secular one, the whole religious freedom thing becomes moot. Until it comes to a religion they don’t like, of course.

      • chortlingdingo

        It would be interesting to see what they do to secular women who just want to protect their skin. Are they really going to legislate that you can’t wearing full coverage clothing at the beach? Will this also apply to men?

        • Serai 1

          Modesty laws NEVER EVER EVER apply to men. You should know that by now.

          • chortlingdingo

            Well I am just a silly dumdum woman. What do I know?

          • Serai 1

            *nods* Our bits make chemicals that weaken our brains.

          • MynameisBlarney

            They should by golly!

        • Serai 1

          And how are they going to tell if a woman is religious or not? Ask? What if they lie? It’s just so fucking stupid all around.

  • Debbies are like snowflakes

    as an Old, subject to Vanilla Cookie Tummy, I have been actually pondering getting a burkini, sans head-covering.
    Even as a lithe, skinny Young, I was never too terribly comfortable wearing the teeny-tiny swimsuits that this culture deems fashionable. I have to bite my tongue when my daughters bring home 2 little strips of cloth to wear on the beach.
    I realize that it’s the fashion, but what a despot Fashion is!

    I completely understand the modesty that Muslim women desire, and really: nobody should get to tell someone else how to dress!

    • Bemused

      I have a huge scar under my rib-cage from an abdominal surgery I had at 15. I ain’t never have and ain’t never gonna wear a bikini.

      • Teecha

        Can you still see the scar? I have no idea how old you are, obvs… My (11 year old) scar runs right down from my tummy button all the way down to my knickers. I used to wear a piercing that was a zip, so that it made it look like the scar would undo. I love it! But it’s so faded now that the joke doesn’t work.

        • Bemused

          It’s been 25 years, and you can still see it (I’m a person of extreme pallor, so everything shows). It basically goes all the way across in a shallow inverted V.

          • Teecha

            I like scars. I think they enhance a body.
            Good job there’s space in the world for all manner of different tastes!

    • SpideySenser

      I am a typical red haired/green eyed extremely pink Caucasian who does not ever go to the beach for fear of burns. I think these things are brilliant! And I tend to dress on the modest side myself, so yah, the bikinis were never part of my fashion experience.

  • Bemused

    “Wear fewer clothes to our FREEZING COLD beaches! Your blood will turn Anti-freeze!” (applicable to all N. European Beaches.)

    • DesertedPictures

      Well: I was at a beach near Scheveningen (Netherlands) last week and it was bloody hot. (I also saw loads of women, men and children: none of which had burkini’s on. (and the thing wasn’t banned there). It was a non issue, until the French started their witch-hunt.)

      • Bemused

        IDK, I lived in Belgium for 4 years and I don’t think there was a single day that counted as bloody hot. (Although in all fairness, bloody hot in California is over 100F/38C, 90-100/32-38 good beach weather, 80-90/27-32 vaguely acceptable for beaching, less than 80/27 no).

        • DesertedPictures

          Touche. It was almost 30 degrees: any warmer then that, and I just stay inside. I’ve forgotten how warm California could get: compared to that, it’s always cold here.

          (But it has been getting warmer the last few years: the Netherlands even has some vineyards going these days. Climate change for the win!)

          • Bemused

            My Norman French war-bride grandmother who has lived in CA for the last 70 years used to tell us all about how in the olden days it was so much warmer in Normandy and they would go to the beach every day they could during the summer (you know, when they weren’t avoiding the Germans :P ). And how it was sad how cold it was when we were there. Amazing what acclimation does. :P

  • There is a pretty interesting group of images on the indy100 listing showing why a burkini ban is ridiculous
    People are sharing these seven images to show how ludicrous the burkini ban is

    • Serai 1

      *sigh* I miss the days when I could see whatever was posted on the internet. Now I have to dig through five browsers before I find one that’ll show me that thing that doesn’t want to be seen. (The funny part? INTERNET EXPLORER is the only browser that can show everything.)

      • Cannedclamscanner

        :(

  • DesertedPictures

    I don’t like the tought that people feel the need to cover themselves up this much, because of a religion. I think it’s troubling. But banning is counter productive: first of all: this allows some people to go to the beach, that would otherwise stay home. But it also antagonises and devides people. Sales for the Burkini have gone up, since the ban.

    If you look at the mirror image of this ban: the clothing restrictions in Iran, you see the same thing happening. Women try to push the law: to do everything they are allowed to: show a bit of hair, as much as they hope to get away with. The same will happen with these bans in France: people cling to their religious identities far more, if they feel that their religion is under attack.

    • Serai 1

      It must be very comforting to know you’re Above That Sort Of Thing.

      • DesertedPictures

        Excuse me?

      • Cannedclamscanner

        I am not sure I understand what you mean.

    • Debbies are like snowflakes

      It isn’t only because of religion; some women don’t want to be judged by their bodies. It is also sometimes a political statement, and sometimes just modesty. Islam itself does not decree that women must wear the veil.

      Sorry to be verbose, but there’s a lot of misinformation floating around about the Veil, and it drives me batty:

      “The veiling of women was a Persian and Byzantine-Christian custom that Islam adopted. For most of Islam’s history, the veil in its various forms was seen as a sign of distinction and protection for upper-class women. Since the 19th century, the veil has come to represent a more assertive, self-consciously Islamic expression, sometimes in reaction to Western currents–colonialism, modernism, feminism.

      The Veil in the Quran

      Initially in Prophet Muhammad’s life, the veil was not an issue. His wives didn’t
      wear it, nor did he require that other women wear it. As he became more
      important in his community, and as his wives gained stature, Muhammad
      began adapting Persian and Byzantine customs. The veil was among those.

      The Quran does address veiling explicitly, but only in so far as the
      Prophet’s wives were concerned. The wives were to be “covered,” that is,
      unseen, when in company of other people. Significantly, the Quran’s
      requirement did not mention a veil as it’s understood in the West—as a
      face covering—but a hijab, in the sense of a “curtain,” or a
      separation of sorts. Here is the relevant passage in the Quran, best
      known as the “Verses of the Curtain”:

      Believers, do not enter the houses of the Prophet for a meal without waiting for
      the proper time, unless you are given leave. But if you are invited,
      enter; and when you have eaten, disperse. Do not engage in familiar
      talk, for this would annoy the Prophet and he would be ashamed to bid
      you go; but of the truth God is not ashamed. If you ask his wives for
      anything, speak to them from behind a curtain. This is more chaste for
      your hearts and their hearts. (Sura 33:53, N.J. Dawood translation).”

      from http://middleeast.about.com/od/religionsectarianism/f/me080209.htm

      • DesertedPictures

        All true: the history of Islam is hardly as uniform as people make it out to be. Women can choose to wear hijab’s for loads of reason’s: as a political statement (I am a Muslim women, deal with it), because they deeply believe in their god and feel that Allah expects it, because they have skin issues, because they don’t like people staring at partially naked parts, etc.

        But there is a group that wears the hijab’s because they are made to, by father’s and husband’s. Because people in their neigbourhoud will gossip or harass them otherwise. And that’s the part that I do have problems with. But, as I mentioned before, banning things is counterproductive in the end.

        I don’t have the answer to that: And I think countries like France, that do suffer from problems with the integration of groups, desperatly want to do something. And they use all the wrong methods. (it’s partially simple racism, but it’s to simplistic to say that racism the only reason for these bans)

        • Debbies are like snowflakes

          I agree! There was a series on PBS a few years ago, where a woman traced the path of veil-wearing. What she found was: in those countries that weren’t patriarchal and gross (eg, Indonesia), the Veil was more of a personal choice for women. In the more patriarchal countries, it was forced on women. The Veil mirrored the misogyny (or non-misogyny) of the country.

          My problem with France’s actions is that it forces people to dig in their heels & become even more rigid about wearing the veil. I have already seen, in Minnesota, where people are left well enough alone with their comforting traditions, that 2nd-generation girls might wear the hijab, but some of them wear it with jeans. I wonder if, by the 3rd or 4th generation in this country, if it will become more of a personal choice.

          My new neighbors are Somali, and the kids (in their 20’s) vary widely in how traditionally they dress.

          • DesertedPictures

            I live in the Netherlands at the moment: You see big differences between older women/recent immigrants and their children here. The younger women that wear veils often have them in all kind’s of different colors that match with their outfits. The older generation (mostly born in Marocco) almost exclusively wear black hijab’s.

          • Debbies are like snowflakes

            It’s very cool to wander around in the Somali parts of Minneapolis (there are places were you can pretend (in the summer at least) that you’re in Africa. And the colors and variety of hijabs, tunics, skirts, and dresses (men, too!) blows me away.
            I am happy, especially watching the old folks, who have been forcibly ripped from all that they knew, have the comfort of their familiar customs, at least.
            Some of the women had never even seen a pencil before they came here, and I’m glad they are (mostly) welcomed in our state.

        • Serai 1

          You mean the way some older women get laughed at and gossiped about because they don’t want to wear bras?

          Yeah, not so exclusive a phenomenon as you seem to think it is.

          • DesertedPictures

            I would appreciate it, if you wouldn’t put words into my mouth. Where did I say this was an exclusive phenomenon?

            We can have a discussion about the way girls where and are made to wear longer skirts in some schools. The way forced modesty is a problem for women in a lot of places troughout history, both inside and outside the West. It’s a big issue and it’s a lot more burdensome then simple gossip about a braless older women (which is problematic in it’s own way, but I digress)). But the subject of this article was the Burkini. And just like it’s not okay to say to women that they should dress modesty to prevent rape, it’s also not okay to force people to wear religious garb.

            (Nor is it okay to force them to take off the religious clothes)

      • Serai 1

        First, thank you for the info. Good to have the exact information on this.

        That said, it must have been GREAT to have your pet peeves and personal idiosyncrasies enshrined as religious law.

        You know, I really hate telemarketers, Brussels sprouts, Daylight Savings Time, and hearing the words “creepy” and “bee-yotch”. I think I’ll found a religion, too!

      • Teecha

        I live in the Middle East and many of my colleagues and students are Muslim and from all sorts of different counties.
        Some wear a hijab from early childhood- a kind of all in one affair that pulls on like a snood, some wear a scarf style hijab starting from their first period. Some wear a scarf style hijab when they get married. Some wear a turban style hijab, which covers their hair, but not their neck. Others wear one when they feel like it, but not always. And there are many women who do not wear a hijab at all.

        Some wear a hijab and an abaya (the coat over the clothes) some go for an all black abaya, others have black beading, others have sparkly beads, and others wear abayas of various colours. Some don’t bother, and wear suits to work, with or without a hijab as they choose.

        You can tell where a woman is from by the style of hijab and/ or abaya.

        For most of my colleagues, it is their own choice entirely as to whether they cover their hair.
        For many of the children, it is their choice. But not for all. The face a lot of pressure from their fathers, who in turn, are pressured by the rest of their peers. (I don’t know the comparable term for congregation- but that’s what I mean)

        The reasons my students give me here for wearing a hijab are different from the ones I heard in the uk- back there, many students wore their hijab to show they were proud of their religion, which not really a reason I hear here. The most common motivation here is that it is modest.

        My kids are a mine of information about how Islam differs around the world.

    • Roadstergal

      I agree with you completely, but do not wish to subscribe to your newsletter, because I get too much email as it is. :)

      The Dawkinian white male atheists referred to in the subtitle of the post are the type who make me feel like an asshole for being an atheist. I want to shake them and say THIS IS NOT HOW YOU MAKE THINGS BETTER.

      It’s a broad statement that requires a heaping bucketful of nuance, but since I’m at work – forcing women to wear things is unfeminist, and forcing them to take things off is approximately 0% more feminist.

  • Alexander Stallwitz

    I once read an comic by an lady who said that feminism isnt telling woman what they should or shouldnt do but they should have the freedom to choose. If an musilm lady wants to wear burka, its her right. It made perfect sense to me

  • Jo Mathie

    There is a small amount of people in Britain that are convinced that we are all going to succumb to Sharia law. It’s not going to happen. Although my grandma did used to wear tights and a cardigan to the beach in the middle of august. Perhaps she was a secret Muslim all along!

    • DesertedPictures

      And what about nuns: you still see them with scarfs: What are they hiding?

  • Fresh-Meat

    ..I’m not Muslim..but I kind of like the idea of a Burkini. Don’t have to worry about others judging my flabby pudgy body, don’t have to worry that much about sunburns (except for my head, hands & feet) …It would be freeing, really. I’m always so self-conscious in a bathing suit, that I haven’t worn one in 10+ years (especially when all my inlaws are skinny and I’m not) and this would definitely make me feel a bit better.

    And I’m sure I’m not alone in feeling this way….

    • Serai 1

      I had a friend who decided SCREW THIS and started wearing t-shirts and big shorts to the beach. It was a great compromise – she got to be comfortable, able to swim, AND didn’t have to show off what she didn’t want to show off.

    • Debbies are like snowflakes

      I think the Wonkette Bazaar should sell ’em!

      • Serai 1

        Maybe they can get a contract to have the burkini makers print the Wonkette logo on ’em. I’d buy one for sure!

        • Tania

          There is a lady in Sydney who makes an amazing array of outfits – check out the pictures of when Nigella Lawson came to visit and wore one of her outfits. Some even include diamentes!!

    • harryr

      I know a woman who has very bad scarring from a childhood accident. She loves her burkini

    • CatCope

      Back in the 1950’s-60’s, in Fla., there was a religion that women had to wear their hair long, keep their breasts, arms,legs covered. Even at the beach. Fla., USA.
      No One gave a damn! A few snickers & eye rollin’, but that was it. No arresting, media attention, abuse!!
      Wonder what the difference is, today??!!!

      • nightmoth

        Some evangelical christianists still cover ALMOST that much. Girl children can wear knee-length culottes and short sleeves at the beach.
        (Which is not a bad idea if you’re a ginger)

  • Nightcrawler

    If France truly believes in being a free society they would allow Muslim women to wear whatever they feel comfortable wearing. Would they say the same things if, say, a Catholic nun was wearing a head covering?

    • Serai 1

      I’m surprised they allow the presence of religious dress at all in any circumstance, given how pissy they seem to get about it. Why should nuns be allowed habits at all? Why aren’t they required to dress like everyone else, seeing as how religious dress is SO EVIL OMG???

      • Nightcrawler

        I mean mandating that everyone in the country follow the same faith Is wrong, but there should be nothing against a person wearing attire or jewelry that is connected to their religion in public.

        • Serai 1

          Yeah, that’s what I meant, too.

    • nightmoth

      Over at Atlantic Monthly some Mooslim haters swore to me that it is illegal for anyone to wear any religious identification in France, including innocent American tourists wearing a cross on a necklace, but that France was “forgiving” of innocent tourists breaking the law that mandates secularism.
      I’m pretty sure that’s bullshit. I KNOW I saw some Catholic nuns with their heads covered in Paris.

      • There is indeed such a law, but….
        1) It only applies to official settings, such as courtrooms and schools, and
        2) Yeah, somehow it’s policed *way* more thoroughly when it’s a non-Christian. And it isn’t just Muslims who get caught up in that. Jews and Hindus ans so forth get harassed too. France has this reputation in America as a liberal, socialist haven, but it’s really not. Socialist, yes, but they’ve had a strong conservative streak for a very long time that borders on fascist (and, in some areas, gallops straight across that border).

        • nightmoth

          Thank you, Kirsten! I knew that if I posted my ? on here, some Wonker would know the answer.

  • YayConspiracy

    An admirer of the alabaster people; I find it awful that our British friend feels pressured to sit on a beach almost unprotected against the sun. Her husband probably makes her wear her skimpy bikini that offers no protection against ultraviolet rays (and it doesn’t offer my eyes any protection either). We must help her: make the burkini mandatory!

    • Teecha

      There’s a reason this story took place in turkey- there are only 9 days a year in the southern part of Britain where it’s hot enough to burn. In the northern parts, that’s down to 2 or 3.

      Also too- this stupidity makes me so growly.

  • GHERKINS OF TRUTH!

    Yes, it makes total sense to get involved in someone else’s absolutely non-essential business for their own good.

    This lady, when visiting a beach, should be forced to wear a bucket on her head that says “Cockbucket.”
    This clearly is the best solution since it will prevent her from seeing and/or being concerned about what other people wear to the beach.

  • GHERKINS OF TRUTH!

    This is good news for creepermen everywhere!

    TAKE THAT OFF RIGHT NOW! LET ME SEE YOUR SKIN, TERRORISS

    • Serai 1

      Goes right along with the right to stalk and harass any woman going into a public restroom.

  • finette
  • Christopher Boscarino

    A bathing suit made of knives would be the cutting edge of fashion! Har Har. Why is no one laughing?

    • DesertedPictures

      That was a pretty lame joke.

  • Paperless Tiger

    What gets me is those Rasta guys who wear goddam wool caps on their dreads in the middle of Summer. Makes my head itch just to see it. I’d say something but they always have the best herb.

  • Jenvenda Manocide

    Why the hell is this woman ogling the lithe bikini clad bodies of someone else’s children????

    • DesertedPictures

      Twist: she’s a predator!

      • Hijabi Rockstar

        SOMEONE CALL M. NIGHT SHYAMALAN!

  • Kooolest G

    OH NO, it looks like sharia law has taken over in Utah

    • CatCope

      XCELLENT, KooolestG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Needs circulation!

  • CJTX

    Don’t ultra-orthodox Jewish women avoid physical contact with men that are not their husbands as well? We need a new meme – It’s Okay As Long As You’re Not A Muslim.

    • the Vagenda Manologues

      Land’s End sells an entire line of modest swimwear, which I understand is very popular with conservatives religious women of many, many religions.

      • Frostedfield

        Rashguard shirts for the win! Also, wetsuits. And hats. I’d rather save myself from a really painful sunburn, thanks.

    • Serai 1

      IOKIYNM

    • AllieQuinn

      There are some observant Jews (both men and women) that choose to be shomer negiah, which is the practice of avoiding physical contact with non family members (obviously kids, parents, etc are excluded). Sometimes there are exceptions for certain circumstances. It doesn’t allow for handshaking, though, so I assume it would scandalize this woman as well.

      • CJTX

        Thanks! I only know from an episode of the Simpsons. (I”d look it up, but I”m in class – looking like I’m taking notes. I”m one chair away from the prof)

        • AllieQuinn

          No problem :) I often wonder why people who recoil in horror at sharia in the US don’t even bat an eye at halacha. Some of the practices may seem out of date or oppressive to someone not raised in the culture (the continued existence of agunot in particular is controversial), but to someone who is, it is an act of devotion. Halacha really means something closer to “path” than “law”. I tend to view Sharia through the same sort of lens.

  • Candy Apple

    I liked this pic making the rounds that shows a woman in Italy being ticketed for wearing a bikini in 1957. We’ve come full circle, I guess?

    https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/08/28/world/BURQINMEMO1/BURQINMEMO1-blog427.jpg

  • jowgajen

    Kind of nifty how she managed to body shame the husband, concern troll both parents, and infantilize the mother all in one breath.

    • nightmoth

      one weird trick

    • cat cafe

      Don’t forget the bigotry! You can’t forget the good old bigotry!

  • WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot

    How in the holy fuck has the world gone from OHH LORDY JESUS THE MUSLIMS IS COMIN’ TO KILL US ALL IN OUR BEDS to women must have statutorily defined beach attire? Religious people of all stripes, faiths, and level of commitment are just nuts, seriously, seriously nuts.

    • the Vagenda Manologues

      Except that in this case (and in the case of France), it’s the militantly secular who are trying to statutorily define womens’ beach attire. It’s like rain on your wedding day.

      • Serai 1

        Thank you.

        • the Vagenda Manologues

          :)

      • WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot

        I don’t care who is statutorily defining women’s beach attire. I just find it absolutely insane that someone is trying to do so.

        • What I find staggering is how oblivious they are to the irony of it all. “It’s misogynistic that those awful Muslims make their women cover up! We’ll show how much better we are by forcing them to disrobe in public!”

          • WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot

            IKR. It’s like none of them recognize both sides are wrong so there can be no right answer.

    • Serai 1

      Really? I’ll be sure to tell my whole family as well as pretty much everyone I know that we’re all “seriously, seriously nuts”. Because of course, it’s not at all possible to be religious and not insane at the same time. (Just like it’s not at all possible to be an atheist and a raging asshole bigot at the same time, as Richard Dawkins has eminently proved.)

      • nightmoth

        Oh, SNAP! lol

      • WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot

        I’ll take the asshole, but not the bigot. I shared an opinion in a chat room. You’re threatening to alert you network to the dangerous atheist.

        • Serai 1

          Well now, that’s interesting, since I didn’t say you WERE a bigot. I compared attitudes towards belief – YOU decided I was talking about you. The only person I referenced was Dawkins, and the fact that you equated that with yourself is pretty telling. But thanks for the info, just the same.

          • WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot

            Fair enough. I didn’t take the time to read carefully,

          • Lily412

            Dawkins is a fucking tool.

          • Serai 1

            Yes, he is. He’s also proof that being an atheist is no guarantee against being a bigot, a shithead, a sexist, or a fucking moron.

  • nightmoth

    To Deserted and Debbies down this thread:
    Thanks for all the information! I also have a bit to contribute. All three of the Abrahamic religions have strictures about women’s hair, as a reaction against the matriarchal paganism of the place and time in which they originated. Women’s hair partook of the same mystic power as the Goddess’s hair and had to be bound or covered to protect people from its force. When the Egyptian goddess Isis brought Osiris back to life, she did so by spreading her hair over him. Pagan priestesses could only prophesy when their hair was unbound. Medieval Europe had countless superstitions based on the power of female tresses. “Witches” had their heads shaved so they could not escape their death sentences. If you look at the Big 3 desert religions today, Orthodox Jewish women still cover their heads, and it has only been in my lifetime that women could go into a Catholic Church without putting something on top of their heads. No matter what the excuses used, mandating headgear for women is, AT ROOT, misogynistic. Women should be allowed to do or not do whatever they want with the hair on their own bodies: cover it, cut it, shave it, wear it down to their fannies, whatever, and that extends to shaving or not shaving their legs and armpits, as well. My hope is that every human will eventually become smart enough to move beyond mandated cultural and/or religious norms regarding the appearance of their own bodies.

    • Hijabi Rockstar

      Lots of Muslims don’t believe women should cover their hair. It’s not a universal rule.

      • nightmoth

        I know. I was giving some theological history to apologists.

  • FauxAntocles

  • I don’t enjoy showing a lot of skin, or exposing my melanin a deficient skin to a lot of sunlight. Can atheists wear burkinis? Because I might be willing to try one.

    I never know where to go with this argument. I think there’s a reasonable argument to be made that religions are basically a lot of brainwashing, and how much “choice” do you really have when you’ve been told since you were a child that wearing the wrong clothing pisses off some all-powerful being? I think a lot of those kinds of religious rules are misogynistic. On the other hand, the government telling you what you can and can’t wear isn’t any better. And shoot, you could take government and religion out of it and you still have several whole industries devoted to telling people what they should and should not wear, and shaming them for any nonconformity. How much free will do any of us actually have, anyway?

    • jowgajen

      We can try and ensure women are wearing religious (or any) garb by choice and establish means for people to make alternative choices. But I think a lot about whether multiculturalism is really postculturalism and whether that’s a good thing? The burkini fiasco is most fascinating because it reveals my own assumptions about what is freedom and how it ought to be expressed.

      • Hijabi Rockstar

        This is just my experience (of course), but I find that the burkini offers me freedom in lots of ways, both practical and emotional. For example, I don’t give a shit about getting a “bikini body,” or cellulite, or the size of my thighs. I’m also protected from sun, insects, windburn, and all sorts of things. It’s actually quite comfortable.

        It’s all about an assumed and unexamined correlation between freedom and nudity, which is actually a little weird when you think about it. Like, lumberjacks don’t wear hot pants in the woods, and no one is worried about their freedom.

        (N.B. In case anyone is wondering, OF COURSE I also support, unconditionally, a woman’s right to be as naked as she damn well pleases.)

  • FeloniousMonk

    If anyone wondered what the kids’ “Caramac tummies” are, here’s a picture of a Caramac bar. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caramac#/media/File%3ACaramac_bar_(cropped).jpg
    I remember when these showed up at the sweet shop, though I didn’t remember it was 1959. I didn’t know they were still around and GOOD LORD that’s a creepy way to talk about skin tone.

    • Ghenghis McCann

      She didn’t want to use “chocolate-coloured” in case it made her sound racist.

    • Hijabi Rockstar

      Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew.

  • cat cafe

    And the thing is, it’s basically a fucking wetsuit. They just love to sit in judgment and control women, and this is a twofer because they also get to be loathsome bigots.

  • cat cafe

    If someone hasn’t already posted this, this cartoon was the best commentary about this:

  • 3FingerPete

    Ms. Pearson makes no mention of the Duggar girls and their preference for modesty swimsuits.

    • ltmcdies

      the one on the left looks like she ready to take your order, now.

    • SeeTrain65

      I wouldn’t mind seeing the reaction to a law that forced the Amish, Mennonites or Pentecostals to wear bikinis at the beach.

      That shit would NOT fly.

  • Smibo


    Because it is weird to give a shit about what other people wear to the beach, so long as as they are not entirely naked on a non-nude beach or wearing a suit made entirely of knives.

    Ok Robyn, I’ll give you the Knifesuit thing. I’d fully support a complete ban on knifesuits at the beach. Or at crowded nightclubs. Or at any other public place, for that matter, but other than that, I think it’s weird to give a shit about how much (or how little) clothing other people decide to wear, pretty much anywhere. To me, the very concept of a “non-nude beach” is a Puritanical insult to beaches everywhere.

    Granted, there might be public heath concerns in some venues. For example, I would probably be loath to sit down in a restaurant booth if it had been recently vacated by a naked, elderly gentleman. Sometimes those guys “leak”, you know. But why do you carve out a “naked at the beach” exception to your otherwise sensible not-giving-of-a-shit about what other people wear? Why the Nakini ban?

  • handyhippie65

    damn, freedom is hard. how does she feel ’bout them big ol’ granny panties? i’ll bet she wants every one to wear a thong. around here, there are a lot of amish, and mennonites. they both wear a hair covering. the mennonites, a little mesh bonnet that covers their bun, and the amish, a large black bonnet, that covers about as much as what the muslims wear, except the face. but, they are christian, so it’s all good i bet.

  • brittany

    In Canada, we haven’t had any major push to ban the burkini yet (although there’s a few Webble Nation minions screaming for it).
    Here’s a picture of our Prime Minister wearing his when he stumbled across a wedding in BC a few weeks ago….he doesn’t have it on all the way, but that’s totally legal too, because everyone in BC is also allowed to go topless on the beach if they so choose. (Oddly, those same Webble Nation minions feel really strongly about that law too, and they think our PM, who’s name they still can’t spell, should stay the fuck out of people’s wedding pics.)
    http://images.dailyhive.com/20160807115135/justin-trudeau-shirtless-tofino.jpg

  • ltmcdies

    the country that gave the world the “bathing machine”…can STFU about anyone’s beach attire.

  • SeeTrain65

    My take: The muslim woman in a burkini at the beach is fine. But please, put her disgusting husband in one, too. I’d like to keep my lunch down.

  • I found myself gazing at the little girls and wondering how long. How long before they had to put away their pretty bikinis and their Caramac tummies…

    Yeah I found that sentence much more disturbing than any “burkini.” I glad she stopped before she reminisced, dewey-eyed over how dhe’d miss “the sweat glistening off their naked backs.”

  • Noe, now Robyn. They are probably concerned that the Muslim family wasn’t wearing their regulation too-small Euro-thongs.

  • JayGoldenBeach

    Yet, slowly and insidiously, Islamic laws
    and practices are allowed to take root and it then falls to the host
    country to challenge them.

    She must have forgotten how the British Empire dealt with a “challenge” from a “host country” they occupied.

  • lroom

    You know lady there is a simple solution to this entire problem. Mind your own fucking business.

    • Ghenghis McCann

      As if.

    • CatCope

      You know Haters can’t do THAT! That’s what they live for. Buttin’ in other peoples’ business. Ya know, like telling others how to live, who to love, who NOT to love, what god to worship, etc.

  • Michael Loraine

    Wait a minute….what century is this again? And the reason we’re still imposing dress codes is what?

  • bardgal

    I’m not Muslim, and I want one.

  • Tania

    As probably mentioned earlier, the Burkini became a thing here in Australia when a programme to teach surf lifesaving to teenagers was introduced. This was a response to the race riots – along with safety on the beach. With the high incidence of skin cancer here, I probably cover up just as much. This allows women freedom to be in the water, and the outfit is made of fabric that breathes and keeps the person cool.

  • Maybe

    Heaven Forbid that women just be allowed to choose for themselves when there are men eager to make laws telling them what to do.

  • Tosca

    I assume Islamic women who veil are doing it by choice, unless they tell me otherwise. Are some of them forced to by family? Probably – forcing women to wear ”modest” clothing is a common behaviour of domestic abusers. The solution to that is to punish the abusers, not ban the clothes.

    Keep the hell out of other people’s business.

  • Newzheimer

    I have two words for this idiot.

    Wet. Suit.

    I scuba dive, sometimes do a shore dive, means I have to walk across the beach in a wet suit, which covers all of me, except for my hands, feet, face and hair.

    And anyway, why do people get so exercised over what other people wear? I’d like to see a photo of this beeyotch. I’ll bet she’s a regular fashion plate, her own self.

  • The Librarian

    There are so many other things in the world that are things. This is a non-thing. I go to the beach to relax, not get my panties in a bunch.

  • pixeloid

    Personally, I’ve always hated shaking hands. So happy that here in Japan we can bow instead of shaking hands to see who has the most sweaty, sticky, bone-crushing grip.

  • Hijabi Rockstar

    Oh dude, I am TOTALLY making a burkini out of knives.

    COME AT ME, BRO.

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