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See? White people.
See? White people.

It’s a time-honored tradition at Wonkette, when tragedy strikes, to immediately start searching the internet for fucked up things prominent wingnuts and Republicans have said about it. They always provide us with many lots of material! And we think it’s an important thing to report, because it shines a light on those who seek to divide us in those times, whether it’s a terrorist attack in Paris, a brutal mass shooting in Orlando, or Thursday night’s police murders in Dallas.

But in every struggle for justice, there come tipping points where some people who are usually on the bad, bigoted, racist side of things can no longer pretend problems don’t exist. There are, right this moment, two internet bloggy posts, both written by conservative white guys, at The Daily Caller (!) and at RedState (!!), which are truly thoughtful, contemplative, compassionate and honest about the violence that’s happened across America this week. You should read them, and then you should send them to your Trump-supporting nana.

First, The Daily Caller’s Matt K. Lewis, with some real talk about police brutality toward black folks:

In the era of Facebook Live and smart phones, it’s hard to come to any conclusion other than the fact that police brutality toward African-Americans is a pervasive problem that has been going on for generations. Seriously, absent video proof, how many innocent African-Americans have been beaten or killed over the last hundred years by the police—with little or no media coverage or scrutiny?

[Wonkette refreshes page, verifies we are not having a stroke and are actually at Daily Kos or something. No, we are at The Daily CALLER.]

I was brought up to reflexively believe the police. To give them the benefit of the doubt. This was before everyone had a camera—and before my own personal experience would demonstrate to me that not all cops are heroes (though some certainly are). It was also before I became a dad and could appreciate the fear that many African-American parents have regarding their children’s interactions with police. […]

This default assumption that the police officer was always right is, I’m sure, what a lot of well-meaning and decent middle class white people were raised to believe. Sure, there were incidents of police abuse, we were told, but those were very rare—and mostly happened in the Deep South. If you had to take someone’s word, you would always go with a police officer over the word of some random citizen (and, let’s be honest, for many Americans, this was especially true if that citizen was a minority). […]

Decent Americans cannot turn a blind eye to police abuse; they just didn’t really believe that it was happening. Or maybe they didn’t want to believe. Today, there is literally no excuse to be ignorant of the problem. […]

And if there’s any good to come from this horrible trend, it may be that the scales are coming off the eyes of a lot of well meaning, if naive, white Americans. My hope is that this will change public opinion to the point that we can change public policy.

Lewis concludes that, as a tiny first step we should all be able to agree on, police should be required to wear body cameras, so we can know FOR SURE what happened when we see the latest headline about a black man dying at the hands of a cop.

Well done, sir!

Ready to visit RedState? Leon H. Wolf, verified white dude, tells his story of growing up in the Texas panhandle, brought up to believe police “were there to help.” He compares that to black folks growing up “in the 50s or 60s in one of the many areas where police were often the agents of — let’s call it what it was — white oppression.” (Yes, let’s do call that what it is!) Let’s hand the mic over:

[T]he proliferation of cell phone video recording has really confirmed (in [black folks’] minds) something they have long anecdotally believed or been taught – that police often interact with minority communities in different ways than they do with the white community.

And here’s the most important part: when they do so, they never or almost never face punishment. […]

The most important safety valve to prevent violence like we saw in Dallas last night is the belief that when officers do go off the rails, the legal system will punish them accordingly. If minority communities (and everyone else, for that matter) believed that, resort to reprisal killings would be either non existent or far less frequent.

But they don’t, and there’s good reason for that. And that is because a huge, overwhelming segment of America does not really give a damn what cops do in the course of maintaining order because they assume (probably correctly) that abuse at the hands of police will never happen to them. As long as the cops keep people away from my door, they have my blessing handling “the thugs” in whatever way they see fit.

I see the attitude all the time even in the comments to the stories I write here at RedState.

OH HOLY SHIT HE IS ABOUT TO THROW DOWN AT HIS OWN COMMENTERS, PUT ON YOUR SEATBELTS, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

Every time I post these stories, I get a flood of comments from people who look for even the smallest hook on which to hang an excuse for the cops. “Well, he was rude and confrontational to the cop.” “Well, when the officer was trying to arrest him, he ran.” “He was ‘resisting arrest.'” (My personal favorite, which was used by several dozen people I talked to regarding Eric Garner, whose “resisting arrest” consisted entirely of turning his back to a cop and putting his hands in the air.)

Look, this is not how a free society works.

Damn right it doesn’t. Job well done, Leon H. Wolf!

Please read both of those men’s posts in their entirety, even though we block-quoted them heavily. And now, for your cherry on top (yes, there is a third conservative being not insane!), here is Charles C.W. Cooke, editor of National Review Online (!!!) with a thoughtful tweet:

nro

Look, we don’t mean to be all “LOL wingnuts are actually being correct, how did that even happen?” — or we only mean it a little bit — but there’s a greater point to be made. We can sit over here at Wanket and wank at liberals about things we consider to be self-evident, like how there is a problem with police violence and unequal treatment of black people by cops, going back decades and centuries. But the Daily Caller’s readers and RedState’s readers think Wanket and all the other progressive sources out there are a buncha dumb ‘Murica-hating libtards and they’re not inclined to pay attention.

But when white guys writing at conservative websites start to speak up … well, boy howdy, a few of those readers might start to listen and examine their hearts and minds (for fleas and ticks, obviously, but also for ingrained prejudices and casual racism) and a few of them might even try to take some baby steps toward doing something about it.

And that’s a story worth reporting.

[The Daily Caller / RedState]

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  • (c)

    Imma go play the lottery.

    • (c)

      I played the lottery.

      • (c)

        I didn’t win the lottery.

    • OddMan

      Thanks for the reminder, Mega lottery here in CA today up to half a billion. Can’t win unless I play. If I win, I’ll drop a big bundle on the Wonks.
      Odds are only 1 in about 258.9 million so I have a great chance.

      • Biel_ze_Bubba

        I’m not playing. Saves 100% of the money, and my odds of winning are only 0.0000000001 less than yours.

      • SDGeoff

        I, too, may break character and purchase mega tix.

    • OddMan

      I got 10 tickets and not one had any number that matched, not one. What are the odds of that? It was fun to dream of that 7.5 million$ a year (increased 5% each year) for 20 years annuity.
      Next time I’ll win for sure, or at least match one damn number.

  • ClarkJoe

    Thanks, Obama. (No, seriously, thanks.)

  • Beanz&Berryz

    Wow an actual bright side….

    • grindstone

      No lie. This tiny step forward may be enough to tip me out of the teeth-grinding mood I’ve been in since 5am. It’s not much, but for today, it’s enough.

      • Beanz&Berryz

        I actually think it’s kinda huge, a few of these folks branching out from their usual alt-view of the universe… breaking from their usual herd… It would be interesting to see if their readers flay them for their heresy or start to see a glimmer of the light they’ve been offered…

  • FauxAntocles

    Wow.

  • SDGeoff

    Boy are they gonna get it!

  • Jeff in the desert

    Have we reached the tipping point where the sane people part in the Republican Party (all of whom are in hiding) will reemerge and take it back. Or rename it and start anew?

  • mackafritz

    It’s bizarro world.

  • In other news 3 white reporters looking for new jobs….

    • CriticalDragon1177

      That will probably very soon after this.

    • QHarp

      I imagine they’ll join forces with Gretchen Carlson and form the Stopped Clock News Network.

  • eddi

    Now those are turnarounds. I expect they will be getting death threats and general vilification for the rest of the day.

    • BosGrl

      And I was going to ask how we can support these writers but I guess libs supporting their work will just make it worse for them…

      • eddi

        Best to just keep out ears and hearts open and our mouths shut. Who knows, they may even convert some heathens.

  • ManchuCandidate

    Obviously not fans of Joe Walsh.

    • Jeff in the desert

      good guitarist.

      • (c)

        • Jeff in the desert

          :-P

          • Cindyinencinitas

            He lives around me here someplace. He goes to my hangout sometimes but I haven’t seen him yet.

  • Spotts1701

    Wait, conservative columnists making cogent and well-reasoned points?

    • Jeff in the desert

      Oh no, next thing you know there will be a woman President!

      • BosGrl

        You’re silly. Women can’t be PRESIDENTS!

        • Jeff in the desert

          Naw just Prime Ministers and Prez in OTHER countries…not in ‘Merica

          • Celtic_Gnome

            Since the final two candidates to replace David Cameron are women, it looks like the next British PM could be a woman.

        • kaw143

          Pfft. IK, R? I mean, how’s that going to work? Will her HUSBAND make the cookies? Husbands don’t make cookies!

          • Jeff in the desert

            talk to the chefs and arrange state dinners and such? Who the former Prez? HAHAHAHA

          • I want to know which china pattern Bill is going to pick out for the White House…and how he’s going to decorate for the holidays.

          • marxalot

            He’ll finally have time to do all the stuff he wanted to do the last time he lived there. Like skateboard down the halls and have the press room pool renovated.

          • I think he should walk into the morning briefings in the press room in his robe and bunny slippers.

          • Cindyinencinitas

            He will establish and run Hillary’s Distillery.

          • Lark_in_the_AM

            If Hillz is smart, she’ll send him off as a goodwill ambassador to outer Mongolia for the duration. I don’t think he’s much of an asset these days.

          • wide_stance_hubby

            Judy Chicago’s Everyday China?

            (whoops, this is supposed to be a reply is to hornheat)

          • I don’t think he would be able to assemble place settings for Sacajawea and Boudica…I was thinking he could choose Mikasa Charisma Black, which is the china pattern I’d choose if I ever got married and had a “hope chest” and that sort of thing, which thank God I didn’t. I think it’s also the china pattern in the Sopranos’s house.

          • marxalot

            I see Bill as a “Kiss the Cook” BBQ in the Rose Garden man. Full page spread in Vanity Fair.

          • DinkyBossetti

            I can very much picture this.

          • bobbert

            I hate to say that I read that as “Kiss the Cock”.

          • H0mer0

            [He’s more likely to “wear that apron” if you know-whad-i-mean.]

          • kindness

            But I eat my wife’s cookies all the time….

          • Jennaratrix

            More importantly, does he have a good chocolate chip cookie recipe?

          • kaw143

            If not, maybe he can buy one from Neiman Marcus?

      • CriticalDragon1177

        Actually that could be the case very soon. For all intense and purposes Hillary is already the Democratic nominee.

        • (c)

          Imma throw something at you for “intensive purposes.” ARGH!!!

          • Cindyinencinitas

            Intense porpoises off the starboard bow!

          • FlownOver

            So long, and thanks so very much for all the fish.

          • Querolous

            Porpoises in tents abaft the port beam!

        • Good_Gawd_Yall

          “Intents and purposes.” Sorry, former English teacher.

      • Latverian Diplomat

        “Ha! Good one.”
        — Phyllis Schlafly

    • CriticalDragon1177

      Well it does happen sometimes.

  • lucidamente

    FALSE FLAGG OPERASHUN!!!1!!!

  • Jenny

    Huzzah! It is a start. The only way it changes is if the ones in power say well damn this could happen to me.

  • Callyson

    OT alert: troll on the Comey hearings post from earlier today. Look for Jay Nelson.

    • The Wanderer

      Oooh! I hope he hasn’t run away yet.

  • Latverian Diplomat

    “OK, somebody better get fired.”
    — A Red State Commenter

  • The Wanderer

    Wow.

  • kaw143

    I imagine all of the comments on these posts are super nice.

    • FrenchFriar

      I’ll take your word of it, but I’m staying here.

    • DinkyBossetti

      I was over at Red State earlier, and surprising number of comments were agreeing with him.

      • Jeff in the desert

        naw…..what?….really?…..do you do brain bleach afterward? Or just lysol the keyboard and monitor?

        • DinkyBossetti

          It was my first time, so I’m not sure what the protocol is, but I left there… I want to say unscathed, but it feels wrong.
          Don’t get me wrong, there were definitely people saying idiotic and hateful things, but there were a lot more people than I expected who basically said it was a well-reasoned, thoughtful piece.

          • eddi

            Who slipped what into the water supply?

          • Justno

            It was a sneak lithium attack.

          • DinkyBossetti

            Not sure, but I think we should stock up on whatever it was.

          • eddi

            Make mine a double!

  • FrenchFriar

    They have Rob Portman Syndrome. If it happens to them or if they witnessed it, it must be true. Otherwise, you’re a dirty commie.

  • Belasaurius

    are we on Bizarro world now?

    • eddi

      One swallow does not a summer make. Let’s see what they write tomorrow. And how many start emulating them.

  • bubbuhh

    Well, Bless Their Hearts (Really!!)

  • anna rampage

    “The most important safety valve to prevent violence like we saw in Dallas last night is the belief that when officers do go off the rails, the legal system will punish them accordingly.”

    Fact, 99% of civilians who are subjected to a grand jury are indicted on criminal charges, go to trial, and the majority of those cases are found to be guilty. Less than 1% of the police officers who are subject to a grand jury for criminal, or negligent behavior are indicted, and very very few of the officers who face trail are ever convicted of their alleged crimes.

    • Exactly. I would love to see just one–ONE–police officer that’s done this shit to have to answer for it.

      • Jennaratrix

        And I’d like to see more than one or two other officers condemn it, roundly, loudly, and unambiguously. That’s the line that needs to be crossed. Obliterated, rather.

        • The “blue wall of silence” needs to come down. NOW.

    • marxalot

      Which is why communities don’t trust the cops, or the so-called justice system, and turn to other means of protecting themselves. It’s a safety valve, all right, and it’s blocked.

      • The Wanderer

        And if a safety valve is blocked, what becomes the end state of the boiler if the pressure grows too great?

        • eddi

          What happened last night becomes as common as minorities shot for being minorities. Cops shot for being cops.

        • MarkM

          Big, nasty explosion…

        • Gleem-McShinez

          Conservatives … evolve?

          THIS MATH DOES NOT ADD UP

        • marxalot

          What happens, to a dream deferred?

    • YoBunnyBunny

      Granted, if the Freddie Gray trials are any indication, a big reason why they can’t get indictments or convictions is just the way the game is setup. Cops, by their own internal policies and training in the use of lethal force, are practically immune to manslaughter/murder/assault/battery charges I’m no expert, but it doesn’t appear that there’s any unambiguous and consistent standard as to what is unacceptable use of force. And as long as that is the case–as long as nobody is willing to set a standard–we’ll never see much justice on this.

      • eddi

        The difficulty of setting use of force rules is the complexity of the encounters. It can be done but you will need highly trained, intelligent specialists to carry out the program. It will have to start from scratch and spend a lot more money on proper training designed to make a police officer regard non-police as having a right to exist.

      • Lark_in_the_AM

        Ditto Trayvon Martin – if we couldn’t get an indictment for a murder of a child, in cold blood, when will there ever be an indictment for any officer killing a black person?

  • AngryBlakGuy

    …what in the HOLIEST OF FUCKS!!!!!! After reading this I expect to walk outside and find a cat and dog walking fully upright and making out in my front yard!!! I’m scared, someone hold me!!! Then again I do live in Florida

    • Señor Skwerl King
      • Jeff in the desert

        Next thing you know cats and dogs living together…….

        • Invidosa

          Mass hysteria!!

      • eddi

        Dawww….

      • grindstone

        I believe that pooch is trying to say “no means no”.

        • eddi

          “Girl cooties! EWWW!” Kids are fun.

      • MarkM

        Bad enough you goldang libruls gotta rub yer perverted ghey acts in the faces of decent, God-fearing Christian folk, but now you show inter-SPECIES miscegenation! I told Martha, I said that nice Pastor Dobson is right! It’s the first step down the slippery slope!

        • Beanz&Berryz

          Slippery slope takes on a whole new connotation in this context….

          • Joyce Lemos

            <<o. ✸✸✸✸✸:✸✸✸✸✸:✸✸✸✸✸:✸✸✸✸✸:✸✸✸✸✸:✸✸✸✸✸:✸✸✸✸✸:✸✸✸✸✸:✸✸✸✸✸:✸✸✸✸✸:::::::!bq591p:….,….

      • AngryBlakGuy

        …bring on the four horsemen of the apocalypse

      • Biel_ze_Bubba

        I kissed a cat and I liked it,

        the taste of her tuna chapstick.

        I kissed a cat just to try it,

        I hope my mama don’t mind it.

        It felt so wrong,

        it felt so right.

        Don’t mean I’m in love tonight.

        I kissed a cat and I liked it (I liked it).

        • AngryBlakGuy

          …Kitty Perry?

          • (c)

            Kitty Purry.

  • (c)

    Oh, I WILL be posting this stuff to the Book of Faces when I get home. Yesohyesohyes, I most certainly will!

  • Hairstrike Alpha

    Well, maybe my fears about wingnuts being able to turn this around and blame it on BLM are unfounded….I hope.

    • FrenchFriar

      Not so fast. They’ll return to character in no time.

  • DoILookAmused2u ?

    I sense fear that us gun grabbers are gunna come fer their assault weapons.

  • Gleem-McShinez

    Please let this sanity spread like a virus and cleanse the Conservatives of their nasty bigot infection that they’ve had for years!

    Like, someone needs to take their Joe Walsh to get it looked at. That thing is DISGUSTING

  • marxalot

    Was that the other shoe?

    • eddi

      I don’t think so. That will be a larger movement away from binary thinking and learning to listen to all sides fairly.

      • marxalot

        Maybe it was the penny dropping. It seems at least a couple have caught it on the way down.

        • eddi

          I’m reluctant to wade through the comments over there. But some brave souls already have. They say there is some positive feedback. Fingers crossed.

          • Cindyinencinitas

            Wait!

          • Paganish

            The KEWT!! It’s over 9,000!!!

          • MarkM

            Can I have two?

          • eddi

            Thank you. ?

  • Scooby

    If there’s a good side to what Trump has done its that some of the non-bigoted Republicans are finally engaging in a bit of introspection.

    • MarkM

      Perhaps staring into the abyss is prompting some of them to take a couple of steps back from the precipice. If so, thank god for…Donald Trump?

      • eddi

        Weird if he turns out to be a blessing in disguise. Scaring the GOP straight.

        • MarkM

          I know they say “the Lord works in mysterious ways”, but Jesus CHRIST!

          • eddi

            The Cosmic Trickster has a bag of goodies.

          • Cindyinencinitas

            Who would Jesus shoot?

        • Cindyinencinitas

          That’s an amazing concept. Would that it were true.

          • eddi

            I’m sure the RNC will be rewriting the convention rules to give them more control over the final nomination process. Maybe even limit the number of “serious” candidates from Day One. Either will not help party unity.

      • Scooby

        I think they are starting to realize that thier criticisms of Trump are really nothing more then criticism of thier voting base. How do they reconcile that?

        • Skadi

          They crib from Marx and dismiss them as mere Trumpenproletariat.

        • MarkM

          I have no idea…but it will be very amusing watching them try…

          • Scooby

            Obama fault?

          • MarkM

            That’s deflection, not reconciliation. But they will do, and are doing that as well, no question.

      • Scooby

        At the end of the day I think Trump makes the good guys better and the bad guys worse. So it’s a wash.

        • Biel_ze_Bubba

          Forces them to take sides, though . . . no more coasting along, unconcerned about their new KKK and Nazi friends.

          • Scooby

            As Sister Sarah says… Your either with us or against us.

        • MarkM

          He makes the REALLY bad guys worse, no question – or at least emboldens them so that they let their inner monster out in the daylight. But I do believe that he is so over the top that he is making some people reexamine their way of looking at things. I hope so at least.

    • Randy Riddle

      All three of them?

    • automaticpilot

      Albeit they have to be taught, step by step, how to be empathetic.

      • Scooby

        Baby steps. At least it’s some progress.

  • DinkyBossetti

    This gives me… What even is this feeling? Is this… hope?

    • mardam422

      Kinda like the feeling of that first sip of coffee in the morning?

      • DinkyBossetti

        Yes. Is that what hope feels like?!

        • Cindyinencinitas

          I’ll wait until they wear some tie dye. Until then, it’s just shock and sadness.

          • DinkyBossetti

            I’m more of a spikes, studs, and safety pins kind of girl than tie dye, myself, but I get what you’re saying.

          • Cindyinencinitas

            Well at least it’s an ethos.

          • Biel_ze_Bubba

            I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

          • DinkyBossetti

            Simply send email to subscribe@upthepunx.org with your name and address to receive your Initiation to the Scene packet. You will be tested on whether or not you’re a poseur and your ability to adhere to a strict, peer-enforced code of dress and behavior while still somehow believing yourself to be a unique individual who lives outside society’s norms. If you pass these tests, I’ll add you to the mailing list.

    • guest1331now

      If you are looking for even moderate sanity out of RedState and the Cruzistians, on any consistent basis, then it is (my condolences) delusion you are feeling.

      • DinkyBossetti

        Whatever that feeling was, you have effectively extinguished it. Now there is nothing but despair.

  • Sardonicuss

    In my own, sadly too frequent anecdotal experience conversing with various racists, I have resorted to the same line of reasoning the Red State guy has (and not too far from where he is from either.).
    It goes like this: Imagine your dad. Now imagine stories your dad told you about how things were when he was growing up. Now imagine those stories included him having to jump off the sidewalk into the street when a white person approached….or worse. Now imagine how you, as his child, would feel today.
    It is an attempt to drill down and find some core shred of empathy these people have. If you try to get them to do it with people of other races in their own lives, or in the present – they see no problem there.
    Obama is President racism is over, the less virulent will say.
    Chris Rock gave me the idea. Rather, Chris Rock did it better.

    • Angela Ruzzo

      My parents were both white and grew up desperately poor during the Great Depression, and they told me stories like this. My mother was Italian and had olive skin and nobody would hire her, and people spat at her in the street and called her filthy names, and shopkeepers wouldn’t wait on her. My father wasn’t allowed to play on the school baseball team even though he was the best player in the school – only the sons of the rich men whose fathers donated money to the team got to play. The rich boys got exemptions from the draft in WWII, but the poor boys were put at the top of the list. All these stories bred a hatred of discrimination, plus a distrust of rich people, so your conclusion is correct. Change the ethnicities, and the same thing goes on today. Whether it is worse today, I don’t know, but things were pretty bad 100 years ago. Have you ever read about The Lead Belt Mining Riot of 1917? My grandfather was caught up in that.
      https://www.mckendree.edu/web/scholars/summer2013/dohogne.htm

  • Gleem-McShinez

    Imagine if one day we could tell our grandkids tales about these fabled wingnuts, who used to be horrible bigot creepshit monsters, but they all vanished one day in a wave of rationality.

    “And if you’re naughty, THEY’LL COME BACK!”

    • artem1s

      that’s a movie John Carpenter should make

    • mardam422

      You like when the Grinch grows a heart, too, I’ll bet.

    • guest1331now

      L’d OL, for reals.

  • baconzgood

    Can’t wait to see the freak out on the comments. Tight wing commenters don’t like to be told to think rationally about things.

  • HobbesEvilTwin

    Perhaps some people have finally realized that no matter what they say the Turnip will say something far more obnoxious, so it’s time to stop trying to out-Coulter each other?

    btw, what has the orange one had to say? more guns?

    • eddi

      Hillary’s fault.

      • Land Shark

        So it’s “Thanks, Hilary” already?

        • eddi

          So it seems.?

  • Biel_ze_Bubba

    I’m gonna go out on a limb and suggest that their readers will turn on them like rabid hyenas.

    • The Witch of Endor

      Actually, the commenters on RedState are being civil and somewhat thoughtful.

      I was surprised, but pleased.

      • Cindyinencinitas

        Thank you for reading it for me. I cannot.

      • iceweasels

        Me too. Man, those RedState commenters are NOT Trump fans.

      • guest1331now

        I attribute any civility at RedState to the example of Cruzismo, which fronts like a college debater, and is full of venom within …

      • goonemeritus

        Have they instituted a RedState version of the banhammer?

    • Angela Ruzzo

      I forsee death threats.

    • AngryKatie

      They can start a support group with Gretchen Carlson.

  • Hairstrike Alpha

    That Obama, so slick…..he got to them too!

  • WJS

    Yeah, but behind the scenes, they’re still rubbing their hands together, trying not to pee themselves while scheming to get Shillary.

    Also note that Trayvon Martin is spinning in the grave.

  • Daisy

    At first, I was thinking Hell froze over. But my dad actually serves as a good indicator for this in particular, because he’s white, straight, cis, and was raised in a Southern Baptist family. And he’s FINALLY figured out that police brutality is a problem.

    • guest1331now

      Maybe one day they’ll get that Reaganomics was a fraud (keep mentioning Kansas…)

  • dslindc

    This must mean that Jade Helm is working. Thanks, Obama!

    • Clyde Barrow

      Or it could just be another glitch in the Matrix…

      • dslindc

        At this point, I’m wondering what would happen if I mixed the red and blue pills.

  • Well… good.

    I think I’ll just avoid the comment section on those articles so I can maintain my tenuous faith in human decency.

    • (c)

      Redstate wasn’t too bad. Daily Caller, OTOH . . . some people there were, uh, “unpleasant.” Decidedly so.

      • (((c)))

        Thank you for ou for reporting back.minwas curious but can’t quite bring myself to look. Also, you inspired me but did I over-do it?

        • (c)

          I like it! Adds character.

  • I Only Like Cats

    A few years ago, I first really saw the LGBT community from a human perspective during a news interview with the woman who was denied her husband’s benefits after he died in Texas because she’s transgender and realized that someone could be born with the wrong plumbing. It just takes little steps to introduce people to humanity from sources they listen to to bring them around to sanity (even if it takes a while).

    • Angela Ruzzo

      People should watch more PBS. They are having a good documentary series right now called “9 Months That Made You” and this week’s episode gave a lot of information about how sexual identity and gender are formed in the womb, and how things can go wrong. It was very informative, but how many people watched it? The ones who most need to learn something don’t watch PBS.

  • Michael Smith

  • Gleem-McShinez

    Sane Conservatives?

    This is not good news for Donald Trump.

    • guest1331now

      Sane perhaps only in seeing eventual need to shift from race-baiting to other foaming-mouthed stuff to trick people into voting the interests of the oligarchs, because: demography — not in actually correcting the stupidities in their core ideology of ‘what the rich want is good for all of us’.

      • YayConspiracy

        Rome wasn’t built in one day.

  • RobKanC

    I know what happened. A portal opened up and we are all in an alternate universe. Tomorrow morning we will find out that Trump is actually decent.

    • eddi

      I had a friend who really believed that happened with some frequency. A macroscopic quantum shift that sometimes left traces as deja vu and “false” memories.

      • RobKanC

        Or as some people call it, Chem trails

        • Cindyinencinitas

          I vote for alien abduction. Ayup.

      • Doug Langley
      • Ghenghis McCann

        We’ve all had that feeling. As in ‘I’m sure I had my wallet in this jacket when I left the house.’

        • guest1331now

          Or, ‘I have no idea how that cocaine got in that pocket!’

    • jmhm

      Or this is lemonade, and next cycle they’ll be marketing themselves to minorities and women as the kinder, gentler GOP now that the bad man is gone.

      Who knows. Maybe both parties actually will shift to the left. Won’t that be nice.

      • RobKanC

        Well. A man can only dream.

    • Jen_Baker_VA

      yeah, but Hillary will still be investigated for something, right?

      • RobKanC

        Most definitely. She is crooked in every dimension.

        • Jen_Baker_VA

          Just checking. For a moment I thought we might have a collapse of the fabric of space time and the universe would go out with a wimper.

        • guest1331now

          And Cruz is still a god-like Shining Boy, not a rattlesnake with words in mouth.

    • Angela Ruzzo

      No, tomorrow we find out that Trump is an android.

    • guest1331now

      Captain America is a Hydra-commie mole (remember when Red Skull was a commie, lol?), George Wallace marched with Rev. Dr. King, and Nixon brought new standards of ethical integrity to politics.

      Nah.

  • Crystalclear12

    So. . . is water still wet?

  • mardam422

    And I thought the FEMA re-education camps were a figment of their imagination. Unless it’s Pod People, I think.

    • Gleem-McShinez

      If two conservative bloggers leave on FEMA Trains at different times, one going east, and the other on a wesbound FEMA Train a half-hour later, both travelling at 60 MPH, when does FOX News’ Sean Hannity stop inciting bigotry?

      • SpideySenser

        Never.

      • laineypc

        It depends on the drift direction of the contrails.

        • guest1331now

          con-trails — DISWYDT?

      • guest1331now

        Never. (go Spidey!)

    • Angela Ruzzo

      FEMA doesn’t need to re-educate anyone. They just order trailers filled with toxic insulation that slowly kills everyone living in them.

      People are still living in FEMA’s toxic Katrina trailers
      http://grist.org/politics/people-are-still-living-in-femas-toxic-katrina-trailers-and-they-likely-have-no-idea/

  • Vote Third Party

    Well, all three of those sites are extremely anti Trump, at least for conservatives. Especially Redstate.

    • Jen_Baker_VA

      Obviously. Because when they say hey, maybe we should stop killing each other, they haz to be anti trump, since he is all about killing each other.

    • Mehmeisterjr

      This could explain the Trump/Cruz/Ryan rapprochement. They must, at any price, stamp out any signs of empathy.

  • Portia McGonagal

    I’m a walking raw nerve today so I approached this entry like Elmer Fudd… “vewwy cawefuwwy” . I’m more fearful today after Dallas than I was yesterday after MN and LA , because those who already needed no excuse to kill people who look like me are going to be lit up like a Christmas Tree.

    The best I can muster on this today is a “wow”.

    • Good_Gawd_Yall

      Stay safe, love.

    • Angela Ruzzo

      There’s this stuff called Valium. It works for me. Stay safe.

      • Cindyinencinitas

        I was literally shaking this morning and had to run for mine so I wouldn’t spend the day in a blanket fort.

        • Angela Ruzzo

          I’m sorry to hear that. I hope you are feeling better now.

    • guest1331now

      And if you don’t want to feel too ‘wow’, look for my later comment (up there somewhere) discussing how Wolf’s piece is stiiillll racist, if rather subtly so …

  • Randy Riddle
  • Clyde Barrow

    Might we soon get the convenient “Sorry, our page was recently hacked” backdoor getaway?

  • Doug Langley

    I just remembered something. Last week I drove by a church, and they had this on their sign:

    IF YOU WANT PEACE, FIGHT FOR JUSTICE.

    That’s worth thinking about.

    • guest1331now

      The weapons of our warfare are not carnal.

      • Invidosa

        Mine might be *lascivious grin*

        • guest1331now

          That *lascivious grin* was probabl not the direction I was thinking … more like, answer hate with love, that stuff … but I kind of like it …

          • Invidosa

            You maaaay be surprised how effective it can be!

          • Invidosa

            And come to think of it, perhaps my *lascivious grin* is just another creative way to answer hate with *ahem* love.

      • James Christopher Owen

        For we wrestle not against flesh and blood…

        • guest1331now

          But against stupidity, cupidity, and willful self-delusion …

  • Peripatetic Poltroon

    “…when white guys … start to speak up … a few of those readers might start to listen…”
    That didn’t work so well for the GOP. Instead, they just had a big ol’ RINO purge. The results of that are playing out in spectacular fashion.

    • Tiria

      Oh, but it is spectacular. Snapping the moderate and fiscal-conservative wings off the GOP failplane means it’s now headed nose-down into the ground. We have our own fringies on the left, of course, but we’re far more united than the opposition has been in recent years.

      • guest1331now

        lol GOP failplane lol

        I keep suggesting that Trump-averse Repubicans who can’t embrace a business-friendly left-moderate like Hillary switch to ‘the other Republican party’ — Libertarian.

    • guest1331now

      I hope–but don’t really expect — that some of the less delusional Republicans will see what they’ve done to themselves, and become Libertarians or conservative Democrats (remember those?) or something, and leave the RINO hunters and the Cruzitians and the Trumpistas to battle it out over the numbskull vote.

      Cruzitians? Cruzistians? Cruzicons? ?

  • Mr. Lambert

    It’s a shame that GOP leaders don’t share the same sentiment.

    • Snicker Haha

      The leaders are not that smart and their mouths are bought by the NRA.

      • guest1331now

        The delusion is strong in those ones.

        • Snicker Haha

          And the dilution of smarts makes them weaker.

  • amindofitsown

    Ok, those were totally rational opinions on conservative websites. Did I just drive through a portal into a parallel dimension?

    • Jennifer R

      Sometimes people change. Look at Little Green Footballs or Dan Lacey (Faithmouse)

  • elviouslyqueer

    I… just… WOW.

  • iceweasels

    I have to say, I was expecting a much much bigger shitshow in the comment sections on those.

    • Lark_in_the_AM

      I was too cowardly to go and look – I wanted to stay hopeful for a few freaking moments before humanity fucks up again.

      • iceweasels

        RedState wasn’t too bad. Plus the mods did fairly well with serious rebuttals to the commenters who were bad in both.

  • pianoplayer1

    Did the Earth’s magnetic poles reverse today?

  • Msgr_Moment

    You know what else is ridiculous? Blaming Obama. And BLM. Nobody knows who did this, and it certainly wasn’t a spontaneous crowd.

    Hillary lied,
    5 people died?

  • Scott Myers

    What the hell is going on here? Where the hell am I?

    • James Christopher Owen

      “And you may ask yourself, ‘Well…how did I get here?'”

  • weave

    The collective IQ level at Redstate went way up after Erick son of Erick quit.

    • guest1331now

      Like, doubled to 15?

      • Bear OmNomNom

        Nah… they’d have to Fight for 15.

  • laineypc

    As encouraging as this is, (would it be too much to ask that this enlightenment could lead to an understanding of the entire justice system perpetuating racial disparities) and I hate to throw any shade, but I sure hope it isn’t a setting up for 2nd amendment justification of more gunz to protect us from the brutality of the police.

  • a_pink_poodle

    Maybe…. just maybe, if this event actually changed the minds of conservative bloggers… there could be some hope for this country?

    • guest1331now

      I have hope, but it’s not resting on any conservatives at the moment. It’s in the people who voted Obama — twice! And in the people like my mom who voted for W. twice, then McCain, then Romney — but who hates Tom Cotton and Ted Cruze — and who recognizes how utterly unfit Trump is for any human responsibility.

      Maybe I’m too hard on this, but nothing, NOTHING on a Cruz-loving site like RedState, or a libtard-baiting, Hillary-hating pus-well like Daily Caller, strikes me as a respectable cause for hope … until they start saying, ‘oops, we were self-deceived, all this tax-cutting, libtard-hating rhetoric was a bunch of evil BS and Ted Cruz, omg, Cruz is actually a rattlesnake!’ I will withhold my ‘hope’.

      When they start moving in that direction, I’ll pay more attention. Till then, their BLM shout-outs are looking like nothing but demographics for the oligarchs.

      • a_pink_poodle

        You’re right but I can’t help but feel that a BLM shout-out in of itself is a gigantic thing for these websites. It’d almost be like admitting that some of Ronald Reagan’s policies hurt the country.

        • guest1331now

          I want to agree, but my experiences trying to reason with Reptilicon co-workers and family have depleted my optimism. There seems to be a glimmer of actual rational thought — remember Charlie Brown and the football?
          http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-jTRik2zJk-Q/VEGHeEbb83I/AAAAAAAAAFo/jwxBm1MrXMI/s1600/The%2BPeanuts%2B-%2BFootball.jpg

          • James Christopher Owen

            Yes.

          • phoenix00

            If Lucy can be convinced that Charlie Brown /could/ nail that field goal…..

          • guest1331now

            He needs to just kick her a few times. She’d hold the ball or quit the game.

          • phoenix00

            CARTOON VIOLENCE?! Could work….

  • Lark_in_the_AM

    Call me stunned. And utterly hopeful again that both “sides” can rise above the open sewer of racism that runs through our nation, work together and finally really try to do something about it. Best story of the day, today, by far.

    • guest1331now

      As I explained in a waaay too long post somewhere below, Wolf at least is still speaking the language of the unconscious racism I was raised with — but yes, this is better than we had much reason to hope for. At least these guys are not saying ‘BLM is racist’ and sh*t like that.

      But, um, Ted Cruz… at Wolf’s RedState they are anti-Trump — because they love them some Ted Cruz … so I am suspicious of their motivations, and am not trusting them quickly or hoping much … when it comes to actual policing policy and actual solutions … let’s hear Ted’s ideas for addressing racism in policing and courts ..

  • guest1331now

    First, yes. While reading the RedState piece, I had to look at some ‘We love Ted Cruz’ headlines to reassure myself that I was not in some alternate, comic-booky, everything is opposite universe.

    tl:dr summary: Wolf’s article is encouraging in facing the nature of the causes of distrust of cops among people of color, BUT is still racist — see ‘imagine…that your parents’ were black–default presumption is that readers are white; see ‘white oppression’ as a ‘what it was’ not a ‘what it is’ — displacing much of the injustice into the past.

    Analysis: Consider this key sentence from Wolf’s piece: “Now imagine, for a minute, that your parents instead [of being white and teaching you to trust cops], grew up as black people in the 50s or 60s in one of the many areas where police were often the agents of – let’s call it what it was – white oppression.”

    So yes, there is the explicit admission of ‘white oppression’ and that cops enforced it on Black Americans — yay! But something is bothering me … and I then I notice the writer’s explicit assumption that the reader will have to IMAGINE having black parents … hmmm.

    And THEN I notice the sneaky and prevaricating and deeply racist (let’s call it
    what it is) displacement of the reality of ‘white oppression’ waaay back to the bad old
    50s and 60s, and to the experience of one’s parents’ or grandparents’ generation, and I realize that, in this sentence at least, ‘white oppression’ is carefully framed and acknowledged only as a ‘what it was’ and not as a what it IS … damn. (Why not write about growing up with an actual present-day experience of oppression?)

    Granted, Mr. Wolf does go on to acknowledge, and in the clearest of terms, yay!, that
    racist policing (and racism in the culture) IS a problem IN the present .. but
    the unconsciously racist phrasing of that sentence still … brrr…. And I think, RedState, you’ve come a long way — and have SUUCH a long way to go. (barf Cruz barf).

    And then I imagine, not ‘having black parents’, but trying to explain, to someone who doesn’t get it, just what it is about even that well-intentioned sentence that is sooo racist … it’s easier to imagine having black parents (I’m white, ya’ll). I was raised to be a ‘good’ racist (i.e. friendly and respectful, not KKK) in the South in the 50s and 60s. We (the decent white folks) thought probably Jim Crow laws were bad and everyone should have good schools, but worried that Negroes would not vote wisely, and that they would ‘slow down’ the white kids in integrated classrooms — stuff like that.

    I was raised to be a racist, by ‘decent’ people who did not know they were racists! So sometimes now I can hear even the subtlest of the dogwhistles (like ‘it was’ instead of ‘it is’) loud and clear … People of color see and hear it, but for many (most?) of us white folk, the only way to understand how pervasive racist attitudes are, and how subtle, and how protected by denial and ‘who me? not me!’ self-deception those racist beliefs and feelings actually are, the only way to get this is to start to recognize them in our own selves (not in ‘those guys’) and then be sad and even angry that it is so … Not sure if Mr. Lewis, Mr. Wolf, or Mr. Cooke get that. Or will.

    • phoenix00

      Good on you for recognizing it’s still a strawman argument, but hey it’s a start…

  • Angela Ruzzo

    It’s good that these white guys speak up. But all they had to do for the past 40 years is look around them and see what was going on and read a bit of history. I grew up in the 60’s . . . I remember Birmingham and Selma and the Chicago and Kent State, and numerous other times that men in uniforms forgot whose side they were supposed to be on. We called cops “pigs” then and we had reason to.

  • Skadi

    I remain skeptical. When Trayvon Martin was killed, we saw a few conservatives express outrage at the beginning. Then Obama opened his mouth and suddenly support for George Zimmerman became party doctrine. They’ll behave like human beings until they realize that might put them on the same side as liberals, and then they’ll go back to being assholes.

    • rebecca

      I remember that; Sean Hannity led the charge.

      But these guys wrote these posts after Obama had already spoken. I think they may be on the road to Damascus.

      • guest1331now

        More like on the road to demographics. But I’ll take even the partial win — and Wolf at least seems to have been making similar points all along — that liberty and justice for all should mean for ALL — even a libertarian-ish hound for the oligarchs might get a glimmer of that luminosity.

        But: demographics.

  • Hardly Ideal

    I… I don’t know how to react. I’m glad these guys are finally coming to their senses, but mad that it took so much time and bodies to get here. I just… I’m having trouble expressing it. Hey, darling Kanaya, can you help me here?
    http://67.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m91jp8rzM51rtcfaqo1_250.gif

    Perfect. Thanks, love.

    • guest1331now

      U r y Wonkette = love
      #yesIstillhavetearstocry

  • Tio_Doidinho

    Found this lovely poem on the Twitter machine this morning…

    • malsperanza

      Nikki Giovanni:

  • Beaumarchais?

    If even these guys are starting to think like this, clearly it is time to ban smart phones.

    • tomamitai

      No need to ban phones, Apple has a workaround to stop pesky recordings.

  • In a terrible week, those are small moments of grace.

  • Swampgas_Man

    And what did their jolly commentators think of these postings?

    • iceweasels

      There were more positive comments than I would have expected.

  • Invidosa

    What . . . What . . . What the fuck is happening here? My world is upside down here! . . . . I need to find me some rum, I can’t deal with this right now. . . I need to go lie down.

    • guest1331now

      Relax, nothing has really changed. It’s just words for the evolving demographics …
      (Damn, that’s cynical — could I be wrong? Could the far right actually be growing a conscience?

      Nah. It’s still take your pick of Trumpismo or Cruzianity — no light there.)

    • Cindyinencinitas

      Someone needs a bendy straw, stat!

  • boll ocks

    End times? I’m so confused…

  • sadboy

    Maybe there’s hope. Just wish it didn’t take so many casualties to get there.

  • First they came for the blacks… but that was 1871 and they never came for anyone else, so I never gave it a second thought.

    Then they got cell phone cameras…

  • redarmyzombie

    I’m sorry, am I in some sort of opposite land? Did our reality merge with another one where conservatives are actually reasonable decent human beings? I’m very confused…

    • guest1331now

      No. It’s a blip. Probably motivated by dim, Reptilican awareness of demographic shifts…

      • Cindyinencinitas

        I hope it’s Rethugs looking at each other and saying what the fucking hell has happened to this place? We may need to re-think Yertle’s strategy here. Somebody go to the dungeon and find that book about negotiating, cooperating, and governing.

        • Dudleydidwrong

          Your hope is strong, Cindy. I wish I shared it. Nixon, then Cheney, burned that book. The Kochs stomped on the ashes. Maybe a Phoenix-like resurrection is possible.

          • WomanInAMood

            You know, I live in Bernie-land. Yet I know several Republicans. I’m even related to some. While we may disagree on many things, they are not evil. My uncle is a straight up decent person. When I had some serious health issues, my Republican neighbor came over and mowed my lawn. I didn’t ask, he just did it – and was embarrassed when I thanked him. Maybe it is rose-colored glasses on my part, but I think that this is a sign that they are fed up with being associated with the worst of their party. Maybe we will never agree on much, but we can at least talk to one another?

          • guest1331now

            This. I ask myself things like, how can my lovely Korean War vet stepfather, who is sooo kind and really generous (like, buying new cars for people) to my mother and my wife and all my kids and even ‘libtard’ me, be AT THE SAME TIME a total Fox News idiot? It’s like quantum superposition, Schrodinger’s kitty stuff. Deep mysteries here .. ‘The delusion is deep with these ones.’

          • WomanInAMood

            It is. I have no explanations, except that if we don’t start treating people with respect, if we don’t start seeing one another as human beings, then we are just like the horrific cops and godawful snipers. We are more than the worst of us. We have to be.

        • guest1331now

          Art of the Deal?

  • Jonny On Maui

    I wish with all my heart that this was the only story I read today.

    • WomanInAMood

      I needed this story. You summed up my feelings exactly.

  • Adam Lily

    #NotAllWingnuts

    • guest1331now

      Hope, but watch both hands and both feet and they bite!

  • Paganish

    … … … maybe… …there’s still hope…

    • Young Thugga

      I want to believe!!!

      • guest1331now

        Easy, there. These are still far-right ideologues. Wolf for instance writes for Cruz-kissing RedState. Resist the temptation, at least for now.

      • Cindyinencinitas

        Oooh! Coming in hot!

        • WomanInAMood

          Firefly reference perhaps?

  • JD Mulvey

    It’s lovely that there are some rightwingers who are finally catching on to the problems that have been empirically documented for decades, and I don’t want to crap on people who are finally inclined to join the sentient half of the country a little bit.

    But…

    I want action. I want reform. Will these dudes support anything meaningful being done?

    That one guy says body cams are the answer. Good start. Like most restrictions on police, in most jurisdictions it’ll have to be renegotiated as part of the police union contract. That means some kind of giveback –ie, money.

    Wanna bet these a-holes won’t want to fund the reforms they’ve suddenly embraced?

    I’ll believe it when I see it.

    • guest1331now

      Yeah, I am reading it something like this: genuine concerns for justice, 20% (hey, party of Lincoln, Republican votes for Voting Rights Act, etc.); needing-to-find-new-votes-for-oligarchs demographic awareness, 75%; confusion, 5%.

      • JD Mulvey

        I’d put “genuine concerns for justice” at 6.5%, tops. Lincoln was a long time ago.

        • guest1331now

          JD, I was trying to be charitable (for my own sake), since I have Republican relatives and friends, but yr probly crrct.
          #stillgottearstocry

    • BagofHammers

      It’s promising, but Rightwing Bloggers coming around is not the same as elected Right Wingers doing the same.

      • malsperanza

        This sudden enlightenment is driven by demographic imperatives: The non-Hispanic white share of the nation’s voting age population fell
        from 66.6 percent to 64.6 percent over the past four years.

        Two weeks ago, the Daily Caller noticed the June 2016 census data:

        Most common age in US:
        Whites: 56
        Asians: 27
        African-Americans: 25
        Hispanics: 9

        ETA: But I’ll still take enlightenment any way I can get it.

  • cynmac

    The GOP took to the airwaves, criticizing Obama for “getting political”.
    And one of their complaints, that Obama is in Warsaw, meeting with NATO and not here at home. Hell, if Obama tried to time his trips against when we have gun crime and mass shootings, he’d never leave the continent. Good going, Gentle Ben.
    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/ben-carson-dallas-shooting-obama-225278

    • guest1331now

      Send Trump, Ryan, and Cruz to Poland instead. (Rosencrantz and Guildenstern, anyone?)

      • Roadstergal

        Obama: “Why, look you now, how unworthy a thing you make of me! You would play upon me; you would seem to know my stops; you would pluck out the heart of my mystery; you would sound me from my lowest note to the top of my compass: and there is much music, excellent voice, in this little organ; yet cannot you make it speak. ‘Sblood, do you think I am easier to be played on than a pipe? Call me what instrument you will, though you can fret me, yet you cannot play upon me.”

        • guest1331now

          ooh, I know this one! thks

      • Dudleydidwrong

        Poor Poland. First Hitler and now you want to send them Trump, Ryan, and Cruz? Have pity, man. Show decency.

  • Young Thugga

    Good on them. Hopefully this is the beginning of a cool trend among conservative bloggers, though experience has me skeptical, I’m willing to be proven wrong. It’s good to have reminders every now and then, and especially now, that wrong people aren’t all wrong all the time. As long as we remember our opponents on the other side of the isle are still people, perhaps, there is hope.

    • Cindyinencinitas

      I mean, for cripes sake, they have children, don’t they?

  • Nockular cavity

    My flabber, it is gasted.

  • sosuume

    RedState is also anti-Trump. Maybe there is a small crack beginning in the vast right wing media, and hope that there is a limit to how much fact-free BS their readers will buy. The Koch-funded right wing has pretty much fucked up the legislative process and they’ve been working hard to bust the justice system. Please, for the love of Dog … and justice … let at least some of their eyes be opening.

    • ksgold

      Amen!

  • Sakonyachen

    “verifies we are not having a stroke and are actually at Daily Kos or something”

    SAKONYACHEN LIBULLLLLZZZZZ !!!111!!!11!!11!

  • Parakeetist

    Um, where is Doctor Who when you need him? Is this a parallel universe?

    • Meanie-meanie, tickle a person

      Dunno, but somebody obviously reversed the polarity…

  • Bear OmNomNom

    I could have sworn I smelled toast.

  • MausFeet

    It sucks so, so hard that it takes conservative white guys saying this to maybe reach some other conservative white people, but that’s kind of how this all works, so yay. This time I’ve noticed a huge shift in facebook (shudder) posts as well, which is good, because this time I’m ready to drop family if they even hint at all lives matter on there.

    Anyway. This little thing is good and a good thing is needed today. What a shit ass week.

  • Spot Letton

    Make that four: “It is more dangerous to be black in America,” Gingrich said. “It is more dangerous in that you’re substantially more likely to end up in a situation where the police don’t respect you and where you could easily get killed.”
    Gingrich even spoke about the extra care that black parents must take to raise their boys to be respectful and obey the police — given the many ways that being black in America can cost black people their lives.
    “It took me a long time, and a number of people talking to me through the years to get a sense of this,” the former speaker of the house said. “If you are a normal white American, the truth is you don’t understand being black in America and you instinctively under-estimate the level of discrimination and the level of additional risk.”

  • Gayer Than Thou

    In the spirit of kindness and relief, I won’t contemplate the enormous human cost it took to get these guys to this insight. Because that would come across as mean-spirited, and that’s not really where my head is right now. Honest!

  • dc1

    Great post E-man. To be honest, I frequent the rat hole of restate often for a bi-daily shot of disappointment. Unexpected and not disappointed.

  • Paperless Tiger

    No disrespect, but I treat cops like dogs. As long as they can see your hands they may not feel threatened. If you hide your hands or reach for something, they may attack.

    • Cindyinencinitas

      I got pulled over for having expired tags on my ratty car and my half-black son was with me in the car. We were on our way to Thanksgiving at my mom’s and we had some bags and things in the car. The cops rolled up on us like we had just robbed a bank. They were very jumpy and when I reached into the back seat to get a granola bar they almost panicked and yelled at me to not move. I couldn’t believe it. They were able to keep it together long enough to check out my registration status (paid, but tags were not yet received) and I left feeling lucky I didn’t get killed that day.

      • ahughes798

        If I get stopped by a cop, before he even leaves his car I make sure my window is already rolled down, and both my hands are clearly visible on the steering wheel. I do not move until told to do so, then I announce every single move I am going to make before I make it. I am a 57 year old white woman, and cops make me nervous as hell. I’m very probably being paranoid, but since some of white America is starting to call BS on the way cops treat minorities in particular and the public in general, the cops are starting to get jumpy. They know that they are increasingly not trusted

    • phoenix00
  • Walter Wellstone

    Nah… Fuck’em. I won’t forget the many times they’ve been proudly on the wrong side of pretty much every issue. This one is too easy. You gotta be pretty vile to not see this for what it is, like Dan Patrick.

  • malsperanza

    Whites have a “view of racism as a zero-sum game, such that decreases in perceived bias
    against Blacks over the past six decades are associated with increases in perceived bias against Whites.” This is from a 2011 academic study. http://www.people.hbs.edu/mnorton/norton%20sommers.pdf

    It’s the most useful insight I’ve found about racial violence in America. It explains so much about the rage against Obama, the inability to feel compassion for Tamir Rice, the denial of the obvious about George Zimmerman.

    If people at the Daily Caller and entrenched bigots like Newt Gingrich can begin to see beyond this zero-sum thinking, perhaps we will get to a better place.

    It should not require massive shocks–the slaughter of perfectly innocent police officers, or the slaughter of Philando Castile and his innumerable fellows–but it does.

    • James Christopher Owen

      Recommended reading. Thanks for linking to this.

    • guest1331now

      Yes, mal. Thanks. Stop seeing it as zero-sum is good. But there IS one aspect of that perception of shifting biases which is at least partly correct — whites (like me) can no longer count on the old bias IN OUR FAVOR. We can no longer expect unearned ‘respect’, deference, and power over the ‘lesser’ breeds just for being white. I’ve hardly ever been seriously disrespected by a person of color just for being white — but I also don’t expect unearned respect or deference for my whiteness. So we get along ok.

      It’s in part the withdrawal or withholding of this expected deference that produces the sense of ‘anti-white racism’– as in a stupid, stupid piece by Ben Shapiro wherein he complains that there’s no ‘conversation about anti-white racism’: http://wonkette.com/603853/a-childrens-treasury-of-terrible-reactions-to-the-dallas-police-shooting-even-though-some-people-were-nice

      If you expect deference, if you feel entitled to it, even subconsciously (unconscious racism is real), and then you don’t get it, that is going to FEEL like a negative bias. Hence Trump and his ‘they all love me’ and his ‘biased’ Mexican judge — he expects deference (love) and interprets any perceived lack of it as due to ‘bias’. BLM is not deferential to white feelings, therefore BLM is ‘racist’. And thus, too, the hatred of feminism in certain quarters … (too much time on my hands — big Wonkette up-cheers to ya)

  • Vegan and Tiara

    I mentioned last night that when the cops lost my 83 year old, southern, conservative mother, they were starting to lose the war of public opinion. They really need to stop shooting innocent people. Not that this in any way excuses the jerk, who apparently was mentally ill, who killed 5 cops. It’s a shame there is just NO solution to gun violence, and mental illness, and no way to prevent mentally ill people from obtaining guns. I guess we should just be resigned to the fact that we’re all going to have to start packing heat to maintain order and a polite society.

    • Serai 1

      The solution is easy, but “nobody” wants to implement it.

      • James Christopher Owen

        But why not? What is it that we’re being asked to give up that’s so important? Are whites really so terrified of the browning of America and New World Order conspiracy lunacy?

        • Serai 1

          In a word? Yes.

        • SisterArtemis

          For a whole lotta whites, absolutely.

        • Shan

          “What is it that we’re being asked to give up that’s so important?”

          The privilege of not being included in any of the demographics that have been systematically targeted by cops who have been either trained or given the leeway to look for people whose lives they can get away with fucking up?

        • Frank Underboob

          Yes, many of them are.

        • mancityfooty .

          Remember how that guy from the defense department had to go to texas to talk about a training exercise that had happened 14 times before?

      • phoenix00

        Correction: the NRA and the Republican politicians they pay off don’t want to implement it. The vast majority of Americans want it.

      • Vegan and Tiara

        I’d like to implement it.

    • James Christopher Owen

      Except it’s not worked out like that so far. Though it seems hopeless, other equally “hopeless” causes have seen breakthroughs. It took centuries to end slavery in England and America, but it happened. In England, William Wilberforce was given news of the passage of the Abolition of Slavery Act three days before his death. I cannot imagine from whence hope might come, but giving up all hope is not the way to go.

      • malsperanza

        Child labor laws
        The eight-hour workday
        Smallpox
        Marriage equality

        We’ve done fairly well, overall. Miles to go, though.

        • James Christopher Owen

          Better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness.

          • Poe’s Law

            “Stupid darkness”

            — Lucy Van Pelt

      • phoenix00

        It took 200 years for the Catholic Church to admit the earth revolves around the sun. Anything is possible.

      • guest1331now

        Yes, yes, yes. To make the same point in another comment thread today somewhere I put two pictures — one of Jesse Jackson on the Memphis balcony with Rev. Dr. King, not long before King was killed (1968), and another of Rev Jesse weeping at the news Obama had been elected president (2008). You know he thought about Martin at some point that night.
        http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/archive/2008/11/1_123125_123102_2180567_2203654_081110_cb_jessejacksontn.jpg.CROP.original-original.jpg

        It is slow, it takes patience, it takes swallowing anger and pain and staying sane, but stuff changes.

      • Vegan and Tiara

        I have hope since Conservatives are waking up to the fact that the police do treat black people differently. At some point things are going to change. In fact, they already have changed somewhat. I went to a segregated school in Georgia in1965.

    • Poe’s Law

      What leads you to say he was mentally ill?

      • Vegan and Tiara

        The Dallas PD chief said he was singing and crying. Also, too, he murdered 5 people he didn’t know.

        • Poe’s Law

          Singing and crying are responses to stress.

          There are many reasons that people shoot people that have nothing to do with mental illness.

          Perhaps you mean, “irrational”?

          • Vegan and Tiara

            I think he had a psychotic break.

      • MarkM

        He wasn’t firing on all cylinders mentally. I’m going to go out on a limb and say that.

        • guest1331now

          It’s even kind of a duh — what sane person acts that way? Probably some serious personal emotional imbalance there.

          But even if it was ‘politically’ motivated still not really sane. We would perhaps do well to recognize things like ideology-aggravated or even ideology-induced insanity (cough Ted Cruz cough).

          By that measure, (a bit OT here — or not), I don’t think there’s anyone moderately sane left in the GOP, though …

        • Poe’s Law

          I only ask because people with mental disabilities (including illness) suffer from a number of prejudices.

          Contrary to popular opinion, people with mental illnesses are far, far more likely to be the victims of violence than the perpetrators.

          Assuming a mass shooter is mentally ill causes more problems than it solves. It makes life even harder for people with mental illness and it pushes us towards policies that do not address to root problem.

          I look forward to the day when we no longer look to mental illness as out go to position for behavior we do not understand.

  • Kooolest G

    I would think that the party of smaller government would naturally be against police killing people whenever they feel like it, but Drumpf has shown us that the republicans aren’t the party of smaller government, they’re the party of racists. that being said kudos to the few non crazys that are about to get a shit storm spewed at them in their comments section

    • guest1331now

      OT, but ‘smaller government’ is a red herring, a false flag, a misdirection, whatever. They don’t want smaller government (witness big military, big cop machinery, big Halliburton warfare, etc.) but government with less power to interfere with oligarch-stuff.

  • Meanie-meanie, tickle a person

    Baby steps, yeah, but…c’monnnnnn, baby!

  • OrdinaryJoe

    I have written before in other places and continue to believe, these tragedies will continue so long as we need to train police officers with the same tactics as the military uses to train soldiers in urban guerrilla warfare. This training creates a mentality that makes every suspect the police officer encounters a potential threat that must be subdued or eliminated. Nothing could underline this more starkly then the “robot bomb” that was used to eliminate the suspect in Dallas. Soldiers who have faced urban combat situations in Afghanistan and Iraq are aware of the use of such tactics in combat zones. But that is not law-enforcement. That is military occupation. I do not believe that every police officer is a racist. I do believe, however, that almost every police officer begins their work day at such a high level of anxiety that it takes very little for them to go over-the-top. The real question is why. If it’s not racism, and I don’t believe it is, then what is it that makes the average police officer so full of fear. I am certain one thing that feeds this fear is their knowledge earned by experience about the overwhelming level of military grade weaponry that sits out there in the hands of civilians. I am certain that we will hear in the coming weeks the stories of officers running to the sounds of a combat level firefight with nothing but their 9mm service pistol to defend themselves. Ladies and gentlemen, we have to deal with the damn guns.

    • SisterArtemis

      I know it’s from a fictional story – science fiction at that – but I always found this snippet of dialogue meaningful. Behold, a tidbit from Battlestar Galactica:

      • WhyFelicia

        By God, that was a great fucking show.

        • SisterArtemis

          Yes! It’s one I have to meter out to myself carefully, lest I burn out on repeated viewings

        • SisterArtemis

          I was watching it late one night about 5 years ago, when my (adult) daughter was living with me; it was the episode where women are stowing away on inter-ship transports in order to obtain abortions on the Galactica. She came out of her room during one particularly intense exchange between the main characters about the ethics of it all. “What the fuck are you watching, Mom?” I explained. “This is sci-fi?” yes, explained a little more…. She went back and binge watched 4 episodes and became quite the devotee. Starbuck is her spirit animal, I think. She’s more hooked than I am.

          • WhyFelicia

            I binge-watch it every few years. The storylines are perfectly executed.

          • guest1331now

            ooh, I miss Katie/Starbuck. Need to dig out my DVDs and do it again — just FF thru the stupid fistfights …

          • SisterArtemis

            except when Starbuck decks Tigh…. as non-violent-ish as I am, I just adore that one.

          • phoenix00

            Has she started cursing using “Frack!” yet?

          • SisterArtemis

            Yet? oh, dear Phoenix, we are so far beyond that. I think Starbuck is her spirit animal at this point….

          • phoenix00

            Let me correct myself: does she curse with “Frack!” with the same gusto, as, shall we say, a malfunctioning pitching machine gatlings 80 mph baseballs?

            And yes, Starbuck is one of my favorite sci-fi characters full-stop. Except that arc in season 3 (I think?) where she turned into this whiny crying sop. That was borderline unwatchable.

    • shaar dula

      no no, no no! you have hit the proverbial head on the nail. dont be apologetic. if it is not too soon, i have a polite enquiry to make myself – how does the good guys with guns theory work in this case?

      • phoenix00

        “They would’ve worked with the cops and taken down the sniper”

        • guest1331now

          Or, more likely, like the marcher legally open carrying, mistaken for perps, and either shot, or taken up police resources being arrested. Never want to have a gun in hand when cops are in high-adrenaline mode.

          • phoenix00

            NRA don’t got time for that thinking and consideration BS…..

      • The Wanderer

        Best analogy I can raise is the response to Charles Whitman at the University of Texas observation tower. A number of citizens, as I recall, suddenly unlimbered rifles and shotguns and pistols and started shooting back at the tower indiscriminately.
        It still took cops to get into the tower and kill Whitman.

    • shaar dula

      sorry but please don’t say we need more guns. the slain police-men, not to mention their other comrades, were all packing “heat”. All weaponized, trained and ready to go. And yet, they could do diddly-squat to protect themselves.

      As @Beowoof14 said guns are designed for one only purpose only – to kill. https://disqus.com/home/discussion/wonkettecom/florida_man_sorry_he_killed_son_but_just_cant_stay_mad_at_his_beautiful_guns/#comment-2766816261

      5 policemen in Dallas are today dead. why?

      A lunatic was able to kill 5 innocent people today. I can understand Somalis, Pakistanis, Afghans etc pledging their lives to guns. But in the United States? Which freedoms of ours are under such existential threats that we need to be so heavily armed as a populace? seriously! i’m asking ‘cuz I don’t understand.

      • Dudleydidwrong

        My take on OJ’s comment, with which I fully agree, is that it is not a plea for more guns but a plea to “deal with the damn guns,” not a request for heavier artillery for the cops but the removal of the heavy artillery from the armed and dangerous citizenry. I’m the child of a cop and know first-hand the dangers they face but also that they are very, very human, and that some have no business in that line of work. I also concur that the militarization of police forces is a large part of the problem. But let me underline: “…we have to deal with the damn guns.”

        • guest1331now

          Yep, I got that too. ‘We have to deal with the damn guns’.

          And this thought I came around to: the Dallas shooter or shooters could come under the heading of ‘armed citizen self-organized militia acting to defend their rights against the police-tools of a tyrannical and oppressive government’. It’s the too-familiar RWNJ ‘fear the cops’ propaganda, like that d*** LaVoy Finicum, but with a deeply ironic twist. A lot of the same folks that are talking now about ‘heroes in blue’ have hosted that ‘we need AR-15s to defend ourselves against the government’ BS in the past. Pisses me off — blame the gun-nut, militia, shoot-a-cop mindset not BLM or Obama!

    • guest1331now

      Tending to agree on many points with you Joe, but there is this: 19 year old kids can be and ARE trained to obey strict ROEs (rules of engagement, when you can and cannot pull that trigger) and even when fearful manage NOT to shoot civilians unless there is an actual threat — incoming rounds, a pointed weapon. They f*** up too, but maybe you take my point: actual military training and rules would probably be better than what we are seeing from some of these angry and/or panicked cops.

      And this — part of it is ANGER, angry cops. I have been in the ‘cop’ role in civilian restraint situations (subduing violent mentally ill hospital patients) and with fear and adrenaline there is often also anger, aggression, and the likelihood of excessive force — the desire or ‘need’ to inflict pain can be strong.

      And this — perceptions of race, and experiences in situations with a racial charge, can add a racial component to the fear/anger. The officer shooter in MN might not have been a racist, but the young man (sorry he has a name but it slips my mind) would likely NOT have been shot if white, especially with a white woman and kid in the car. Class or appearance of class makes a diff too–less likely to get shot wearing a business suit than a hoodie.

      And I also try to remember this, for perspective — the cops in Orlando, many in street uniforms, who risked their lives trying to save LGBT+ people of color:
      http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ck3Omo-VEAIZHmx.jpg:small

  • shaar dula

    its one thing for kids to get a trophy for participation, quite another for fully grown men/women to get trophies for participating in reality-based existence and not being sclerotic.

    sorry evan, but people tend to gravitate towards “progressive”/”liberal” camp only because on an average the ideas & principles from that camp err towards rationality & humane-ness aka reality has a liberal bias. no cookies for keeping it real.

    • WomanInAMood

      Nice use of the word sclerotic.

    • I will always err on the side of compassion – even if that err is difficult to defend.

  • AngryKatie

    So I read Paul Ryan’s statement from today and something occurred to me. Philando Castile had a conceal carry permit, he disclosed that to the officer as he was supposed to, but it seems very likely that the officer’s knowledge that he had a gun was a major factor in the decision to shoot.

    Then you have the early person of interest in Dallas who was merely open carrying, as apparently more and more people are now wont to do.

    Could the NRA have put out word that their lapdogs need to be present for this one lest anyone start looking to closely at how law enforcement are going to react when facing a growing body of armed citizens?

    • phoenix00

      “We better get started on that FAQ”

  • E.A. Blair

    “This default assumption that the police officer was always right is, I’m
    sure, what a lot of well-meaning and decent middle class white people
    were raised to believe. Sure, there were incidents of police abuse, we
    were told, but those were very rare—and mostly happened in the Deep
    South. If you had to take someone’s word, you would always go with a
    police officer over the word of some random citizen”

    All it takes is overhearing cops talking shop when they think they’re just among themselves. A former brother-in-law was a cop, and I once overheard his conversation with some work buddies in which they were lamenting the fact that they “weren’t allowed” to rough people up (with or without cause) like TV and movie cops. Apparently, their real jobs weren’t anywhere near as exciting as the fantasy cops’, and civil rights were just a big killjoy.

    By the way – that ex brother-in-law is an ex-cop. He was caught dealing drugs while on duty. My sister should have gone to prison with him.

    • Villago Delenda Est

      No one’s job is as exciting as the TV/Movie depiction of same. Ask a lawyer. Ask a doctor. Ask a cop. Ask a soldier. ANYONE. They only people whose real lives are as exciting as is shown in the movies are guys like Tony Stark and Clark Kent.

      Who do not exist in the real world.

      • E.A. Blair

        True, but the cops I overheard both wanted and expected their jobs to be like reruns of Starsky & Hutch (the TV show, not the movie). They wanted to slap people around, abuse arrestees and count a workday wasted if they didn’t fire their guns at least once. I sincerely feel that if that ex b-i-l hadn’t fucked up and stayed on the force, he’d have eventually been involved in one of those shooting incidents – and been proud of it.

        • I hoped psychometric testing had weeded those people out of the police entrance exam. Sad to hear it isn’t so.

          • E.A. Blair

            The kind of testing they have now is if someone is psycho, they’re in.

          • ahughes798

            The kind of testing they do for cops now weeds out the most intelligent. True story.

    • Be Gin

      I too have heard this type of “shop-talk”. Thankfully I didn’t have to hear it from anyone in my family.

      My own job is clerical and so “peace officers” think of me as beneath them. To them it is no big deal if I hear them discussing “those people”in very general and unpleasant ways. I bite my tongue. I control myself. I learn something new day.

      And I write it down when I get home. Names. Places. Dates. What gets said. Just the facts.

  • Frank Underboob

    Wellp, I’m staying indoors all day now, because I don’t want to risk being hit by any of the pig shit that’ll be falling from the sky.

    • phoenix00

      don’t blame ya

  • Blender_415

    Sorry, there’s a serious difference between enlightenment and self-preservation. These assholes saw white people being targeted, and their privileged lizard brains did a quick recall of all the horrible, horrible things they’ve said over the years… if it’s white cops today, it could be them tomorrow.

    I don’t believe a word of it.

  • TeeRaak

    Is it better to murder one person to prevent multiple people from being killed?

    The Dallas Police thought so. They alone were the Judge, Jury and Executioner by killing Micah Xavier Johnson with a bomb.

    If it’s acceptable for police officers to kill someone to prevent POSSIBLE multiple deaths….

    Then why wasn’t it OK for a sniper to kill a White police officer to prevent POSSIBLE multiple deaths of Black men in the future?

    Discuss.
    http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2bqsbVzhq1roavl3o2_500.gif

    • WomanInAMood

      I’m a bit curious about the image you posted.

      • Thaag Tidestalker

        If memory serves, it is from the movie version of The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, and is the supercomputer Deep Thought giving out its answer to the Ultimate Question to Life, the Universe, and everything. Which is exactly forty-two.

        • WomanInAMood

          Thanks. Though that doesn’t make it any less random for TeeRaak’s post. I love those books.

        • Zippy W Pinhead

          So long and thanks for the fish…

        • Msgr_Moment

          So the answer to the long-winded question the poster asked is “42”?
          Good, I’ll go with “42”, TeeRaak.
          What do I win?

      • TeeRaak

        It’s been so long, I forgot the question.

  • cgthegeek

    So… It only took the deaths of 5 police officers by a well trained sniper (who was probably trying to frame BLM) for the Right to realize maybe this whole “inciting a race war” thing wasn’t a good idea?

    Yay?

    • Mike Travis

      Who incited a race war?

      • WomanInAMood

        There are awful things going on, but please…

        • Mike Travis

          Please what? I was curious who he thought was inciting a race war?

          • WomanInAMood

            You did notice the quotation marks, right? This poster was discussing a strategy that has sadly been used by certain politicians. And why are you assuming this poster is “he”?

          • Mike Travis

            Who cares if it’s a he or she ?

            I see someone who’s talking about a strategy, while ignoring the fact that black men went out and killed cops in cold blood .

            Now who are the ones that have started a potential race war?

          • WomanInAMood

            Who cares about the he or she thing? Probably that poster.

            And are you saying that black men started a potential race war?

          • Mike Travis

            I don’t know the poster. Should I refer to the poster as “it”?

            Who shot the white cops? A white man? A black man? A Latino? An Asian? Who?

          • WomanInAMood

            Usually, one refers to people of unknown gender as them, see Shakespeare et al.

            Who shot the cops? Easy-peasy. A nut who had easy access to weaponry. All too common in my beloved country.

            Potential race war? Please continue.

          • Mike Travis

            Easy peasy? You failed to mention the race of said nut (s).

            Right, let’s blame the NRA. That’s my favorite.

          • WomanInAMood

            That’s your favorite what?

          • Mike Travis

            Meme. Talking point.

            Now , what race was the one of the people who were involved in taking out white cops?

            Do you care to answer or just pretend I didn’t ask.

          • WomanInAMood

            What I am trying to figure out is what your point is. An awful black person shot cops. Your point is?

          • Mike Travis

            Correct and someone who wasn’t associated with Faux News/Tea Party//GOP/right wing militias etc;

            Blame the right for the rhetoric but it is the left that’s creating havoc .

          • WomanInAMood

            As best I can tell, it’s the fact that guns are too damn easy to get. Are you really arguing that self-proclaimed ISIS supporters are lefties?

          • Mike Travis

            The strictest gun laws tend to be in major urban cities and somehow, the killings never cease. I’m guessing Chicago will lose 50-60 of its residents THIS WEEKEND, due to gun violence despite having some of the toughest gun laws in the country .

            Apparently the Muslim dude that killed 49 people in Orlando was a Democrat, but your question was irrelevant and off topic to what I said.

          • WomanInAMood

            How is that off topic? Please show your work.

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            hey shitforbrains, pretty much anyone not white tends to avoid joining the GOP, no matter how religious and conservative they are. Also too, until you fuckwits learn the difference between a municipality and a sovereign country, STFU about the fact that citywide gun laws aren’t as effective as they would be nationwide. D Minus for your piss poor talking points, dimwit

          • Mike Travis

            Lol. Ma’am you’re quite emotional and it shows in your prose.

            Get back to me when you make any sense

          • Blender_415

            Oh, Zippy. Please be kind to the wandering muppets; they have no sense of humanity, and defy all logic and reason to a fault… that’s because they’re muppets.

          • At the corner, turn left

            “The strictest gun laws tend to be in major urban cities and somehow, the killings never cease.”

            It’s nice how you ignore the fact that anyone just needs to drive a few hundreds or even tens of miles to a city or state with virtually no restrictions on guns, get a gun or as many guns as one can afford and return home loaded for bear. This is, of course, courtesy of the NRA and all the politicians in its well-funded pockets. Without a national, federal, all-encompassing gun control law, municipal and state laws are essentially pointless.

          • Mike Travis

            LOL. You actually think they don’t sell guns illegally on the street.

            Guns are brought in across the border illegally and sold illegally .

            Quit blaming gun shops for the behavior of irresponsible people

          • At the corner, turn left

            Did I blame gun shops there? No. That’s you assuming. I will never, however, stop blaming the NRA for its irresponsible behavior and utter lack of comprehension of or compassion for the blood spilled because of its idiotic belief that guns are the answer to everything.

          • Mike Travis

            The NRA never said the guns to the answer to everything.

            You better come to grips that the gun isn’t the problem, it’s the person who chooses a weapon that’s the problem

          • At the corner, turn left

            Oh, really? What’s with all this ‘good guy with a gun’ bullshit? The gun is most definitely the problem. If a person with a problem of whatever sort can readily buy a gun by whatever means to use for whatever purpose, what is the one thing that poses the biggest problem in this equation? The gun. Remove the gun from the equation, and thousands more people won’t needlessly lose their lives.

          • Mike Travis

            Snore. You leftists love blowing the good guy with a gun out of proportion.

            It’s not good guys with guns shooting up places.

            When will you get it through your thick skull that when people are driven to kill, they will do so in whatever means necessary.

            It’s amazing that you self proclaimed intellects don’t have the mental capacity to understand.

          • vivian

            Fuck your gun-loving self to pieces, Mike. If you can’t see that there is a problem by now, you are simply too stupid to argue with.

          • In Australia we had a federal gun buy back after a tragedy and we haven’t had a mass shooting since.

          • Mike Travis

            You mean you had a federal confiscation of guns.

            And please stop comparing any country with America.

          • Msgr_Moment

            That’s right. We’re exceptional, and therefore nobody has any lessons to teach us.

          • Mike Travis

            We are exceptional. I don’t know why you leftists hate this country so much.

          • Msgr_Moment
          • Mike Travis

            BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

            AL FRANKEN

            BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

          • Msgr_Moment

            Wow. You put me in my place, didn’t you?
            Done arguing with a talking-point-regurgitating bot. Have a lovely day, Sir.

          • Mike Travis

            If you think Al Franken is a voice of reason for rational thought, then you’re dumber than I thought.

            Could you imagine your reaction if I quoted some right wing politician or media sort? LOL

          • Gert

            Mike:

            Even though I’m not impressed by some of the responses you’ve gotten here, you show all the hallmarks of a reductionist, Manichean twit, who creates false dichotomy upon false dichotomy to try and score points. ‘Black v. White’, ‘Left’ v. Right’, ‘Rep v. Dem’. None of these groups are monolithic and none are all thinking alike. And of course it’s racists who love all that pigeon holing because it’s so easy and lazy.

            As regards the sorry state of ‘race’ relations in the ‘exceptional’ US, there’s plenty of blame to go around for mismanaging the emancipation of the least privileged since the abolition of their use as human beasts of burden.

            Go read a few decent books, perhaps like these

          • Mike Travis

            BTW, the left generally focuses on the bad and rips America about its past shortcomings .

            For as progressive as the left claims to be , they love being mired in the past

            It’s not often that the left praises America for all of its warts.

            I find that quote delusional and comical.

          • vivian

            Perhaps that’s because improving something depends on understanding how it works rather than just blindly wishing for it to be like it never was.

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            Jesus, what a dumbass. Don’t make fun of Murica! Spoken like your typical four year old…

          • vivian

            Why? Afraid of a solution that might work?

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            DIdn’t you kn w? All orthodox, ultra conservative religious fundamentalists are “lefties”

            SMH this dolt is an idiot

          • Mike Travis

            Lol

          • At the corner, turn left

            Define ‘havoc’ and provide substantive proof of the left’s creating it.

          • Mike Travis

            Ferguson
            Baltimore
            Dallas

          • Msgr_Moment

            Baton Rouge?
            Minneapolis?
            Please try to look at a bigger picture, dude.

          • Mike Travis

            So you’re promoting violence and destruction of property because of two incidents that haven’t been fully investigated.

            You’re cluesless bro

          • Msgr_Moment

            No. I’m saying that what happened in Dallas did not just spring out of nowhere. Please don’t whitewash this story.
            P.S. Personally belittling your opponent, it kind of makes it look like you’ve run out of rational arguments.

          • Mike Travis

            Right, there’s been occurrences before and let’s burn this bitch down before finding out what really happened(see Ferguson)

            Opposing views fall on deaf ears with my opponents because they’re more closed minded than those they accuse of being close minded.

            You have no rational argument so therefore belittling is a default action.

          • vivian

            Clueless? Mr. Mike, do you believe there is any correlation between the populace now having video cams on their phones and the recent flood of incidents in which we see cops abusing their authority, sometimes lethally, against people of color? Do you seriously believe this is an issue that just started this year or something? Are you 12?

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            12 is being generous with this buffoon. Beyond regurgitating talking points, I’m having trouble finding any proof of sentience

          • At the corner, turn left

            As a geography lesson, it’s nice. As proof of anything, bupkus.

          • Mike Travis

            So you’re saying no havoc took place in those 3 cities/towns?

          • At the corner, turn left

            Are you that simple-minded? You list three city names as if that’s proof positive of your baseless assertions. It would seem you’re either completely clueless or consciously ignorant of the dynamics behind what happened there. Or perhaps you simply don’t care. Are you just too white to understand the thoughts and feelings of those not like you?

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            But, but, those are some of our favorite words at /r/CoonTown! We don’t have to make a logical point, we just have to mention certain words and we magically win every argument by incanting them!

          • Cpt_Justice

            More like a crazy black guy, who was (get this) *touched off by all the murdering of black people at the hands of police*

          • kaw143

            There was only one. He appeared to be of a duskier hue, if that is what you are on about. If your position is that this shooter was attempting to start a race war (a point which, to be fair, it has been reported that the shooter did, in fact, admit to), he did a poor job of it, as he wasn’t just shooting at white police officers.

            All of which is beside the point. So what if he wanted to start a race war? When someone throws a race war, the trick is not attending.

          • Mike Travis

            A duskier hue? LOL

            Say it with me , B-L-A-C-K.

            The FBI crime statistics doesn’t have a column for “duskier hue”

            The assassination of Archduke Ferdinand is what got things rolling for WWI, but the heavy fighting didn’t occur till later.

          • kaw143

            Okay. Fine. Black. Happy?

            And, no, sorry. The assassination of Ferdinand did NOT get things rolling for World War One. Things had been rolling for decades. By the time Ferdinand was assassinated things were so far gone that just about anything would have set the world to war. The exact set of circumstances that led to the first World War no longer exist. And, in any case, are you arguing that races have a similarly ironclad set of defense treaties that will obligate those of certain skin tones to come to the aid of others with different skin tones no matter what their political beliefs on the matter?

            Your thoughts on history are as intriguing as your thoughts on racial relations: which is to say, flawed, without nuance and wrong.

          • Mike Travis

            Of course things were bubbling beneath the surface , but Ferndinand’s assassination is is the straw that broke the camels back:

            My point is this. Dallas could be the straw that broke the camels back, and it ain’t right wingers taking people out, yet.

          • kaw143

            Actually, I have no idea what the shooter’s political affiliations were, and neither do you. In those cases where we DO know the political affiliations of mass shooters, most of them have been as right-wing as they come.

            Enjoy your race war. I’m afraid you might be very lonely on that battlefield.

          • Mike Travis

            Really? Holmes wasn’t. Neither was Lanza, Loughner, Hassan, The VT shooter, the Orlando shooter. So most of them aren’t right wingers but whatever gets you through the night.

            FTR, when 96% of blacks vote for a Dem, I’m pretty sure the dude’s not a right winger, but there’s always that 4% chance he was.

            I don’t want a race war and it ain’t the right itchin for one, but the right will be ready if it happens .

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            Why don’t you fuck right off and head back to stormfront? Your bullshit claims to know the political affiliation of those people and your attempts to insinuate that they were left wingers is as fuking transparent as your regurgitated cherry picked statistics

          • Mike Travis

            I’ve never been to stormfront ma’am but you emotionally unbalanced leftists seem to reflexively say that.

            LOL, it’s also comical for you to think left wingers aren’t capable of such violence.

            The fact is a black dude who wanted to kill white cops doesn’t sound like a Republican to me.

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            Sure you’ve never been to Stormfront. The fact that you’ve memorized their entire hymnal is a complete coincidence, ROFL.

            it’s also comical for you to think left wingers aren’t capable of such violence.

            I never said that, sitforbrains. That’s just another of the pathetic straw man you’ve attempted to erect .

          • kaw143

            Sure. None of those people held fanatical, conservative, right-wing political and religious beliefs. Whatever gets you through the night.

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            Someone has memorized all their talking points well- and they’re now parroting them here as fast as they can

          • Mike Travis

            The people I listed did not. There are some of the mass shooters that did like Robert Dear

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            Before Obama, 100% of blacks voted for a white guy, dumbass

          • Mike Travis

            For a DEMOCRAT , not wit. Wow!

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            no, NOT for a democrat, you moron. But nice job trying to move those goalposts yet again to another tired talking point…

          • “I don’t want a race war and it ain’t the right itchin for one, but the right will be ready if it happens.”

            Oh really? Which side will the right be on?

          • Mike Travis

            The winning side?

          • At the corner, turn left

            Nobody wants, or is itchin’ for, a race war, but decades of Republican policy of coddling the rich and doing everything in their power to cut back programs benefiting the poor and minorities, downright saying it’s one’s own fault for being poor, lashing out at immigrants and indulging in general fear-mongering has created a climate, embodied in the Orange One, where a worst-case scenario is possible. We need to change that climate, but, sadly, we all know that the right consists of climate change deniers. You’re certainly one of them.

          • Mike Travis

            LOL. It’s the DEMOCRAT party that keeps the blacks on their plantations and began with the Great Society and continues to this day.
            The Dems pander to the blacks for a few months every four years and their lives don’t get much better.
            The rampant poverty, children out of wedlock, abortion and violence has a tight grip on inner city blacks.
            Quit blaming the GOP for all that ails the black community and start looking in the mirror at your own party and what you’ve done wrong.

          • Msgr_Moment

            So, the old “on their plantations” bullshit. So, saying that 96% of the blacks don’t recognize what their own best interests entail isn’t the least bit condescending?

          • Mike Travis

            Maybe they feel their best interests are living in poverty and having little hope and turning to gangs and violence, with incarceration and/ or death as likely outcomes.

            When you do something for 50 years and despair is still present, maybe that’s what they want.

          • Msgr_Moment

            How many African-Americans have you shared this special insight with? What was their reaction?

          • Mike Travis

            The ones that I’m friends with have been fortunate enough to get out of those places and what they’ve shared with me is that they’re scared shltless to go back to those neighborhoods. That blew me away.
            I asked them why and they said the young gangbangers have no respect for anyone, even other blacks.
            That’s telling.

            Sorry that I burst your idiotic false narrative that I’m some white supremacist who hates blacks. Quite the contrary . I hate aizzholes, of any color.

          • At the corner, turn left

            You are one sad excuse for a human being. You spew out this nonsense without a shred of evidence to back it up. All I see are Limbaugh talking points, which carry about as much weight as an anorexic neutrino. Tell me, just what has the GOP done to improve the lives of the poor and minorities of this country? Why, not a damn thing. They coddle the 1% while blaming the poor for their poverty. You want to see the GOP’s policies in action? Go to Brownbackistan, a.k.a. Kansas, and witness the devolution and desolation of a state.

          • Mike Travis

            Blah blah blah

            Limbaugh talking points

            Blah blah blah

            Kansas(talk about LWNJ talking points) Brownback , blah blah blah

            You have zero self awareness

          • At the corner, turn left

            You might want to look up the term ‘psychological projection’. I must admit your capacity for denying reality is truly astounding. Of course, I find the right’s capacity for denying and ignoring reality astounding and sad.

          • Mike Travis

            Right, Dunning Krugerite. You girls are funny.

          • vivian

            Put the mirror down, Mike.

          • vivian

            *cough* Dylan Roof *cough*

          • ahughes798

            In addition, how about Timmy McVeigh? The guy who killed Dr. Tiller? Harris and Klebold? The old white guy who killed 3 people over a parking spot? The old white guy who shot two black men who were looking in a shed on THEIR OWN PROPERTY? Need I go on?
            If there’s any type of war coming, it’s going to be the 99% who rise up against the 1%. You, Guest, and people like you, will be willing cannon fodder for the 1%. They will like that.

          • Stulexington

            Actually no, the demands placed on Bosnia-Herzegovina by Austria and their subsequent refusal to one of the list of demands is what broke the camels back. The demands were caused by the assassination, the assassination was committed by the Black Hand, the Black Hand was sparked by Austria’s aggressive attempts to unite the Slavic people, god knows what motivated Austria to start rocking the boat. See, I can cherry pick the exact moment I stop looking back in history too.

          • WomanInAMood

            Are you really saying that this awful tragedy is the same as the assassination of Ferdinand? That there is some similarity between the cops who were posing for pictures with the marchers in a peaceful march, and the intricate diplomatic treaties formed by early 20th century monarchies? Really?

          • Mike Travis

            No. How did you come to that conclusion?

            I’m merely saying that Dallas could be the event that sets off a real race war. It won’t go full blown overnight, but it could be the event that historians will talk about as the tipping point.

            I pray that’s it’s not, but the summer of violence is upon us .

          • LegionOfDo

            I believe the tragedy in Dallas, and the real dialogue about the problems that have been swept under the rug by the “thin blue line” that have been occurring in its aftermath, will prove to be the straw that prevented a race war. People have been coming together over this. People have been talking. Really talking. Sure, there are those like yourself who seem to want things to move in the other direction, but the light is dawning on many more that the issues that have been avoided for so long need to be addressed in a real and positive way.

          • Mike Travis

            I want to move this in another direction?

            Yiu leftists sadly are lacking in reading comprehension.

            I said I pray it doesn’t come to a race war, but to be ready if one does occur.

          • MarkM

            I have no doubt that racists like yourself are stockpiling weapons and ammo, hoping (praying) for the day the race war starts so you can start plugging blacks. I’ve read the fetish magazines you guys wank over, the mindset is all too obvious.

            If you went to work every day and your co-workers gave you the worst, most menial tasks to perform, insulted you, denied you promotions or advancement, paid you less, keyed your car, made you piss in the parking lot, and generally made your life a living hell, until one day you snapped and punched somone in the face – would you think it was fair if they pointed at you and said “He started it?”

            Blacks were brought to the U.S. as slaves, bought and sold like cattle, brutalized, worked as draft animals and treated, at best, as prized livestock. They were regarded, and treated as, less than human even after they were “freed”. They have been systematically oppressed, marginalized, disenfranchised and discriminated against for the entire history of your country. There is no excusing what the shooter in Dallas did. But it is easy to look at the history of your country and understand how there is an inevitability about those events – just as one can condemn the actions of Gavrilo Princip in Sarajevo (to use your example), while understanding that there was an inevitability about them, that events in Europe were headed down a dark path, and it was not a matter of “if but “when” someone or something was going to ignite the tinder and start the conflagration. You still have a chance to avert that in your country…but to point your finger at angry, hate-filled, unstable people who allow their frustration and rage to flower in violence and say “they started it!” is to ignore the history of America, and how you got to where you are. Until you stop excusing brutally racist actions by your police, until you stop electing politicians who deliberately work to disenfranchise minorities as an avowed tactic to win elections, until you allow blacks to be given the same opportunities and a simple fair shake that white Americans enjoy, until you acknowledge you HAVE a problem, and that white and black people need to come together to work on solving it, there is no hope for you.

          • LegionOfDo

            I realize you are no longer able to comment, but in case you are reading the thread, I’m going to respond.

            Firstly, my reading comprehension is just fine. You have consistently used the fact that the Dallas sniper was black to claim that ALL killings of police officers have been committed by black people, while completely ignoring those who have offered many examples of police killings by whites. It would be one thing to state the position that all police killings are bad. That I would agree with. However, your stated belief is that it is only bad when black people kill police officers, while giving white people a pass when they do so. That fact alone is enough to demonstrate your racial bias, and is very clearly an attempt on your part to paint blacks as bad and whites as good. By doing so, you are directly creating the conditions that would lead to a race war, and you are doing so willingly and without any hesitation or second thoughts. “Praying” that there isn’t a race war out of one side of your mouth while promoting one out of the other only helps to bring about the latter. If you want me and other whites like me to be ready for a race war, we surely could be, but don’t expect us to fight for your side.

            Secondly, fuck off.

          • At the corner, turn left

            Oh, please. We’ve had ‘summers of violence’ beyond count. What have we learned from them? Not so much. The word ‘blasé’ comes to mind. It remains to be seen if this will lead to anything more than earnest talk.

          • Mike Travis

            Right, we’ve certainly learned from those summers.

            That’s why they continue to happen.

          • At the corner, turn left

            Was that supposed to make sense?

          • guest1331now

            lol, I just figured out why nothing sensible gets through to you, ‘Guest’ — you’ve already got ALL your holes plugged.

          • Odd Jørgensen

            I bet the systemic murder of blahs by cops would have nothing to do with it to. Huh?

          • Mike Travis

            More whites are shot by cops than blacks by a 2:1 margin.

          • Biff52

            African Americans are called a minority for a reason.

          • Mike Travis

            Correct and statistics show that they commit more violent crimes as a race than do whites.

          • Sheepshagger

            Man just when I was having warm feelings about you guys one of you has to turn up and shit all over the fucking rug.

          • Mike Travis

            Lol.

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            More boilerplate stormfront blather…

          • guest1331now

            so tired of you … people of equal income levels commit equal amounts of crime, regardless of race, so the causal factor (‘what makes it happen’) is poverty not race.
            Now, as to why more blacks are in poverty, can we talk about the fat that, within my lifetime, there were laws on the books against being black? Can we talk about the fact that, within my lifetime, blacks were intentionally segregated into separate schools of poorer quality? Can we talk about the fact that, within my lifetime and to this day, blacks are less likely to get hired for lots of jobs (especially in private business, where civil rights violations are easier to get away with than in public sector jobs) than equally qualified whites?
            what I wonder is, how you are not sick of yourself by now?

          • vivian

            Hey math wiz: in a country where 12.3% of the population is black, that means that a black person is about 4 times more likely to be shot by a cop. Thanks for making our point for us.

          • Mike Travis

            LOL. Maybe it has something to do with blacks that commit violent crimes do so disproportionately to whites.

            You half wits never think things through . Lol

          • Delu

            And that somehow gives police the right to kill them or mistreat them more than any other demographic?

          • Mike Travis

            Nope. Why do cops kill more whites?
            It would seem like they’re the ones that need to worry.

          • Delu

            It’s amusing how you conveniently lose sight of the context of your own logic here.

            Above you remarked, in response to someone who mentioned that blacks are a minority compared to whites, how that makes the fact that they commit the majority of crimes significant because of them being a minority.

            Which I suppose you believe makes it justifiable to cops to shoot them or treat them badly. I did ask if this was the case but you ignored the question.

            But back to your question, police kill more whites than any others, correct.

            Can you NOW tell me why?

          • Gleem-McShinez

            blacks that commit violent crimes do so disproportionately to whites

            Would you like to admit you’re afraid of blacks?

            Is this your reason for owning guns?

            Do you think this same fear may also exist in the police when confronting black people during traffic stops?

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            Actually, shitforbrains, the percentage of blacks who are shot by police is disproportionate, even taking other factors like that into account. Then again, if you weren’t a moron you’d know that the whole “blacks are bigger criminals” BS that you bigots wet your pants reciting, is actually due to economic status, not racial status. When controlled for economic status, there is no racial disparity in criminality.

          • guest1331now

            I.e. amount of crime done by blacks and whites of equal income levels is the same… (just putting it in terms for my tired brain can hold on to …)

          • Delu

            And Charleston could have been just that too, but while some on the right were saying how it was a war against CHRISTIANS when Roof self said he wanted a race war the war didn’t happen.

            Care to guess why? Well for one, those close to the victims FORGAVE Roof and were resolute that there would be no race war.

            Too bad the Austria-Hungarians could not do the same.

          • Biff52

            You are ignoring the events that led up to Dallas. It’s been brewing for hundreds of years.

          • Mike Travis

            That’s quite a stretch, but OK.

            This isn’t the first time in recent history where cops were killed in cold blood.

          • Msgr_Moment

            Oh, and as I can see from your line of reasoning so far, there is NOTHING that set off the events in Dallas. Interesting whitewashing.

          • Mike Travis

            Hmmm, so it’s OK in your mind to execute cops before the investigations have taken place.

            See, it’s you leftists that are prone to violence first and ask questions later.

            Remember Ferguson. That should be the litmus test for everyone.

          • Msgr_Moment

            Why would you impute such a thought to me? Go back to bed, Sweetie Pie. And dream up a better approach. Straw man don’t cut it here.

          • Mike Travis

            You’re the one that talked about the incidents that led to Dallas, as if there was justifications of killing white officers who had nothing to do with Baton Rouge or MN. You leftists just want your pound of flesh.

            Why don’t you go after the brown skin cop who killed the dude in MN?

            Why not allow the investigative process to play out before mowing down white people that had nothing to do with what happened.

          • Msgr_Moment

            For someone who claims I have no rational arguments, you spend an awful lot of time imputing motives to me that are ridiculously inaccurate.

          • Mike Travis

            Since you can’t dispute what I said and defend yourself , you’ve given me no reason to believe that my assertions aren’t accurate.

            Don’t worry dear, I’m sure you have me painted with a broad brush. It’s just a matter of time until you show your true colors.

          • Mike Travis

            BTW, Referencing Al Franken is not rational. LOL

          • Delu

            From what I can see, the dispute here is over Msgr claiming that it cannot be possible that the shooting….simply happened with no viable explanation, yet you seem to imply that is the case here.

            Considering that such incidences don’t normally occur without underlying motive or cause, do you really think this incident did? And why?

          • Gleem-McShinez

            Why not allow the investigative process to play out before mowing down white people that had nothing to do with what happened.

            There was one guy who did that, and he’s dead. You should have asked him when you had the chance?

            Nobody, literally nobody else on the planet is doing what he did, he was his own “team.”

            Yet you’re assuming people are on one side or another. In fact you came in here suggesting that there’s ONE race that is doing all the cop-murdering.

            You’re on the losing side of this argument, because it is you that is looking for the divisions. People are trying to understand each other, and you’re pointing at skin color as the designator of whose “team” they’re on.

            Stop that, racist.

          • vivian

            So Dylan Roof doesn’t count as a start to your beloved race war? Why not?

          • Mike Travis

            I don’t want a race war , dummy

          • vivian

            No of course you don’t, but you sure seem awfully excited to get prepared for one which indicates to me that actually you do.

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            Of course he does- these bigots literally salivate at the idea

          • Gleem-McShinez

            You came in here, and demanded people here to say what race was the guy who murdered the Dallas cops.

            You’re intent on pointing out what race is doing all the violent crimes, according to you.

            You’re dividing people into racial teams.

            If you’re not even aware of yourself doing this division, then you probably don’t realize you’re part of the problem.

          • At the corner, turn left

            That’s probably because the NRA, in its rabid misconstruing of the 2nd Amendment, richly deserves it.

          • Mike Travis

            Interestingly enough, it’s not NRA members that are shooting up places.

          • At the corner, turn left

            Interestingly enough, it’s the NRA that keeps guns in ready supply for any and everybody. All the NRA cares about is guns, not who sells them, not who buys them or how they’re used. So what you have there is a false dichotomy. It’s the organization that’s rotten from top to bottom.

          • Mike Travis

            LOL.

            Get back to me when you find NRA members who are commiting daily gun violence.

            It seems to me that 99% of gun owners are responsible.

            Maybe it’s not the gun or the NRA , but the person.

          • At the corner, turn left

            Mike, you’re not paying attention. I’m not talking about the members. I’m talking about an organization that uses its influence to block the CDC from studying the effects of gun violence in America. An organization that considers background checks an imposition on personal rights. An organization that doesn’t give a shit about FBI statistics that show the mere presence of a gun in the home raises the risk of injury or death significantly. And is the 99% a real number or did you just pull that out of your backside? Is even 1% of irresponsible owners acceptable?

          • Mike Travis

            I know exactly what you’re saying. You leftists believe you can legislate human behavior.

            If guns weren’t available, another weapon du jour would be used.

            It’s not the weapon or organization, it’s the person.

          • Delu

            And if you have laws forbidding something then hunmans will just try to get around it somehow so it follows why have any laws?

            Pretty much ANY legislation is subject to the same idiotic “conclusion” you listed above. Pretty much EVERY piece of legislation on society is an attempt to legislate human societal behaviour, from DUI laws to the prohibition of murder, after all, are not both considered human behaviour that such legislation seeks to control?

            So what you’ve pretty much said dear anarchist (or sovereign citizen or true libertarian, take your pick for all believe the same core concept) is that laws of any sort are no good in your attempt to attack leftists.

            It stands to reason why the Malheur criminals were all right wingers. They hate law and would cheerfully point their guns at officers of the laws as they also did at a certain “Bundy Ranch”.

            You’re right about how it’s the person and not the weapon. However you forget 2 things. 1 is how an organization can indeed influence and incur human behaviour on a societal level like how the NRA right now are doing to their faithful. Secondly without guns humans won’t stop killing each other, but heck it would be much harder for them to do so.

            Or perhaps, if you disagree, you can explain how the Dallas shooter would be able to do what he did had he not had access to the gun he used to shoot cops.

          • Mike Travis

            Nice straw man. I love the “why have any laws” talking point.

            You’ve been deemed invalid with that silly drivel

          • Delu

            Nice bit of hypocrisy there considering that your post above was itself a straw man. It attempts to address an “issue” that no one has raised but you. All in order to obfuscate from the real point.

            Your remark about how if you get rid of guns, humans will still find some other way to kill…..conveniently ignoring of course that that is NOT the aim of gun legislation. Murder after all, existed well before the invention of any firearm, and to suggest that removing firearms would rid us of murder defies the simple logic of cause and effect.

            Yet that is what you, and many others of your ammosexual ilk have done when confronted with the issue of gun legislation. Build the same idiotic strawman and try to pass it off as the stance of the other side when YOU were the ones making that implied argument.

            Sorry, you built that straw man, you own it. Don’t think everyone else is as idiotic as you to not notice your fallacy especially when it comes up ALL the time.

            And that also makes you a hypocrite for accusing me of building a straw man, to which I will respond “show me where and how I did.”

            Just as I have here with yours.

          • jmk

            You really need to look up what “straw man” means, cupcake, if you think that Delu offered one.

            YOU are the one who made the “why have any laws” talking point – the NRA’s favorite “but if that gun control legislation doesn’t solve ALL gun crimes, then it’s no good so let’s not have ANY laws.”

            And who the fuck “deemed” anything “invalid”? You and your Breitbart buddies?

          • vivian

            That is so deeply stupid I can’t imagine you seriously believe it. If the only weapon available was a spoon do you think there would be a single mass-murder this year? Of course not. Spoons are crap weapons. So the hardware makes a difference. Arming the American people so they can defend themselves against the American people is insane.

          • Mike Travis

            Yawn. Crazy people commit mass murders.

          • Delu

            According to what we tend to hear on American news media, that largely applies only when the culprit is of a particular race and religion.

            But when they are not, then suddenly their entire religious or racial group is blamed for the context behind the crime.

            That they don’t have fathers in their families, wear hoodies or is of a religion of evil therefore they kill, things along those lines.

          • Gleem-McShinez

            Crazy people commit mass murders.

            And crazy people armed with machetes don’t. Armed with knives don’t. Hatchets? Poison? The closest a crazy can do in terms of mass murder body-count is use a car or a bomb.

            Only thing about both of those weapon choices? BOTH ARE HIGHLY REGULATED AND RESTRICTED.

            (Also, “racist people” point out that “blacks are the problem.”)

          • Gleem-McShinez

            It’s not the weapon or organization, it’s the person.

            And therefore, Australians are better people than Americans. And Brits, Canadians, and the Japanese?

            Because they all don’t have the per-capita murder rates that we have. Right?

            What do they have that they don’t? Regulations and restrictions.

            Why can’t we get some?

            We have a powerful entrenched rabid lobbying group that throws away half of the 2nd Amendment that they claim to support, and completely focuses only the last 4 words of it.

            You’re going to be on the losing side of this argument, because the rest of the sane world doesn’t think those last 4 words override safety or sanity. The tipping point is coming for your toys.

          • Delu

            I can name at least 1 influential member of the NRA that has called for violence. It’s not killing I know, but then again, this guy would probably be too scared to kill anyone since he skipped the opportunity for him to go kill people in Vietnam.

            His name is Ted Nugent.

          • Mike Travis

            Thanks for making my point. Rhetoric vs action.

            BTW, you know nothing about Nugent . Pure speculation on your part. He wasn’t into guns in his late teens and early 20’s. That’s not to say he wasn’t pro second Amendment, but he wasn’t a vocal supporter and activist.

            He was chasing a musical career.

          • Delu

            Funny how you say I know nothing about Nugent…then talked about Nugent in the PAST?

            I don’t really know what you’re trying to say with your depiction of past Nugent here, what I do know about Present Nugent is that he is a member of the NRA board, has spewed violent rethoric and deferred from the Vietnam draft.

            You seem to be fine with violent rethoric for some reason, but that violent rethoric…has a way of getting people who hear and believe…to kill other people.

            But I’m sure that’s better than these people actually doing the killing themselves eh?

          • davefromoregon

            It is, however, the NRA that is enabling the arming of those who do. I also suspect that the crowd in eastern Oregon had plenty of NRA memberships.

          • Mike Travis

            Im sure there was. Just as on the Bundy ranch. How many did they kill?

            Blaming the NRA is not only lazy, but its intellectually dishonest

          • Delu

            They did say they were more than willing to shoot and some pointed their guns at officers.

            Does that not count for anything?

          • Mike Travis

            In the mind of a leftist it’s the same as pulling the trigger. Don’t let me stop you.

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            In the mind of the law enforcement officer staring down the barrel of that rifle, it doesn’t really make a whole lot of difference either, dumbass

          • Delu

            And in the mind of a rightist these things don’t matter at all as long as those guns are pointed at the RIGHT people. Such as BLM officers.

            Gotcha.

          • doktorzoom

            Two of their ardent followers headed to Las Vegas and killed two cops and an armed citizen who tried to stop them. There is that.
            http://wonkette.com/551081/oh-look-some-bundy-ranchers-did-a-vegas-spree-killing-for-freedom

            Yes, they’d been ejected from Bundyville for being too openly in favor of shooting sprees. But they were ideologically aligned, and white. Which by your own criteria, implicates all whites and gun humpers. If you won’t accept BLM’s disavowal of violence, it’s certainly only fair to dismiss the Bunditarian’s disavowal of the Vegas killers.

          • guest1331now

            ‘Bunditarians’, nice. And, DkrZ, thks for patiently reasoning with and offering facts to s’one I’ve dismissed as a mind-closed troll and decided is only mockable. U r worthy.

          • guest1331now

            Ooh, Wonketarians, it used long words! Isn’t that cute?

            What would be really amazing is any evidence it knows what they mean …

            #sillytrolls #weseewhatyouaredoing

          • vivian

            Except for when they do. But we won’t mention that now will we.

          • Mike Travis

            But they don’t, so keep praying. Sooner or later it will come true and all of you leftists can dance for joy

          • Delu

            Leftists were not dancing for joy when Dylan Roof shot up Charleston.

            Unlike you guys it seems others understand that tragedies like these are bad for EVERYONE.

            It’s an understanding you would greatly benefit from, if only you’d be willing to do so.

          • guest1331now

            You do know that a comment like that does nothing except show how mean you are, right? ‘Oh, I’m an angry little RWNJ, let me show you how easy I can hurty your fragile little leftie feelings!’

            Really, ‘Guest’, people here are nice and like to be happy, and we care about real things, and you are just a little childish meanie throwing your childish little tantrums, but too short-armed and too short-fingered to actually touch or break anything.

            Sorry you are unhappy about stuffs, sorry YOUR America is ‘ruined’ and ‘weak’ and ‘full of losers’ — but our America is still pretty cool, all told, and getting better.

            #nyahnyah #sillytrolls #easyfuckingtargetgivemeachallenge

          • efoveks

            The NRA has fostered an attitude that is socially and morally destructive. The NRA is a political lobby whose views have run roughshod over the wishes of the majority of people, and that has the American public upset. “Upset” being an understatement.

          • guest1331now

            ‘well regulated’ seems to just … fade … from the pages of their Pocket Constitutions …

          • jmk

            As well we fucking should. Their worship of their metal peens has led us to this horror.

          • Mike Travis

            What are you babbling about slowtard?

          • guest1331now

            Ah, the trolly reveals his trollyness, as is ever the case, by childish retort with no facts and a lame-ass ‘insult’.

            ‘Guest’, the only reason people are trying to argue with you at all is that we are used to our own kind here — people who actually think — and are doin you the courtesy of treating you as a thikning human being, not a dim-bulb who can only repeat wordy things he (or she) has already heard somewhere.

            I name you TROLL and laugh you back under your bridge.

          • Cpt_Justice

            Are you seriously suggesting that ONLY NOW there is a racial problem in this country? Oh, don’t tell me, let me guess – I’m psychic: you’re white.

          • guest1331now

            He or she probably cares if it’s a he or she. You are funny/stupid, ‘Guest’, and out of your depth among the smart people here, though you probably can’t see that. And also not a very good guest — rude, tracking dirt everywhere. Almost as if you wanted to stomp around and leave nasty footprints or something … #sillytrolls

      • cgthegeek

        They are. The Right/Republicans/GOP/Tea Party/Faux News. They keep accusing BLM and “SJWs” of trying to incite a race war in an effort to detract from the fact that it’s THEIR rhetoric/denial of reality that’s inflammatory. They toss out words like “race-baiter” when minorities try to discuss racial issues, insist we are “post racial” because Obama is POTUS, tell people that talking about race in any way is “the real racism”, and urge their base to arm themselves because “the race war is coming.” All in dog-whistle, of course.

        • Mike Travis

          Yet it was blacks that were picking off white cops in Dallas and other attempts in various cities today on white law enforcement officers.

          I haven’t seen any of these armed militia types shooting up blacks .

          • jmk

            Oh haven’t you?

            How many of the white police officers who have gotten away with killing black people are among the idiot members of shithead brigades like the Oathkeepers and the even more assholish Three Percenters?

          • doktorzoom

            A black person. One. singular. Not plural.

            So if you’re into group retribution, time to start cracking down on whites, since Dylan Roof killed more people.

          • Delu

            He did now didn’t he?

            That reminds me of those Christain Islamophobes complaining about how Islam was SO MUCH EVILER than Christianity because radical extremists who profess Islam kill more than radical extremists who profess Christianity!

            Wonder if they would say the same in the above comparison between Charleston and Dallas….

          • Tansy greenpeas

            What do you think the targets look like at their gun ranges in their survivalists compounds? Hint it isn’t the aliens from Independence Day and it isn’t a generic silhouette.

      • Cpt_Justice

        Have you visited the internet…?

      • doktorzoom

        I’m gonna say it’s the guys who’ve been making a living since at least the 80s getting “RAHOWA” (“Racial Holy War”) tattoos and encouraging exterminating blacks and Jews, for starters.

        And then I’m gonna banhammer you, because you are A Idiot.

        • Zippy W Pinhead

          It was only a matter of time, lol. They all end up down the same /pol/ shithole of talking points

        • Delu

          Aww he never got to explain his accusation of me building a strawman.

          And he was amusing too. Could understand the significance of majority and minority population when it came to crimes committed by blacks but convenintly forgets when it comes to the question of why police kill more white people as a whole…..

          • Zippy W Pinhead

            You’d think he’d know all about straw men, considering they are his go-to debate tactic. Dude sprouted a whole forest of them on this thread…

          • Delu

            That “gun legislation will never stop people killing each other” strawman never gets old with them.

        • Gleem-McShinez

          Damn! If I could only type faster than a banhammer!

          May I TLDR drop this here? It’s for our now besmurshed hammerated missing pal, but the point remains.

          Troll doesn’t seem to understand why people hate the NRA.

          The NRA works its lobbying magic so there will be zero funds to pay for gun-violence studies at the macro, big picture, national level of the CDC — who helped move the needle on seat belts and lead paint and any number of other dangerous products that we’re better off keeping control over.

          The NRA uses fear to sell guns. They stoke the idea of us vs them, which Trolly seemed really enamored with.

          The NRA prevents rational, sane, reasonable regulations and restrictions on gun ownership, such as “let’s don’t let terrorists have them, or let completely bonkers fucknut people either.”

          It has nothing to do with whether NRA folks are doing murders.

          And I’m not even arguing with Troll. Troll unimportant.

          I’m simply refuting Troll’s type of bullshit in public, basically so others will see how it’s done. Enough is enough.

      • Tansy greenpeas

        Your mom? Or is Hilter the actual answer in this case?

  • mtn_philosoph

    Some truths are just so stark that they cannot be explained away but must be frankly acknowledged and faced, regardless of the consequences for one’s own position. A couple of examples: for the left, it was finally admitting that the Soviet Union was pretty messed up, badly run and it all too often did things that were downright vile. For the right, this. Honestly facing up to things that are glaringly obvious to everyone else is always a good move.

    • Delu

      No truth is too stark to explain away because any that is simply gets ignored as they explain it away.

      There are many examples of the right doing this. At least it isn’t ALL of them who do.

      • mtn_philosoph

        We are talking about two different matters, values vs data. My post is philosophical, your’s is empirical. What should be vs what is.

  • Joyce Lemos

    <<o. ✸✸✸✸✸:✸✸✸✸✸:✸✸✸✸✸:✸✸✸✸✸:✸✸✸✸✸:✸✸✸✸✸:✸✸✸✸✸:✸✸✸✸✸:✸✸✸✸✸:✸✸✸✸✸:::::::!bq591p:….,…

    • guest1331now

      Joyce, spam is evil. You should be shame of yourself.

  • YayConspiracy

    Could this be the start of a beautiful friendship?

  • guest1331now

    Late update — I was very skeptical of voices from the right saying ‘listen to black Americans on this issue!’ — called it a ‘road to demographics’ enlightenment.

    But I am going to revise that opinion some — here’s Grand High Reptilicon Newt Gingrich saying it too:

    “If you are a normal white American, the truth is you don’t understand
    being black in America and you instinctively underestimate the level of
    discrimination and the level of additional risk.” Jaw hits desk. Tempted to repeat that in all caps. Newt. Gingrich. After a black man shot cops. After a black. Man. Shot. Cops. ‘Whites don’t understand and instinctively underestimate.’ So much there, including YOU ARE RACIST AND DON’T EVEN KNOW IT – ‘instinctively’. Wow.

    And others much the same: http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/08/politics/republican-lawmakers-black-americans/

    Ok, I officially no longer care that this is at least partly based on a cynical recognition of demographic realities, from the party that’s brought us decades of Southern Strategy and get-out-the-vote dogwhistle racism and 8 years of ‘Obama’s a Muuslim’.

    This is looking like real light through the f***in clouds.
    Quick, quick, move into that opening and expand … #nowmorethanever

  • davefromoregon

    Newt Gingrich was also shockingly sane in his response,

  • UpstateNYObserver

    On one side I’m thrilled that traditional conservatives are finally recognizing the reality of being a person of color in this country. That the massive evidence of cell phone videos is finally overcoming the blue wall of silence. But, I also can’t help but think that this is also massively cynical campaign to attract votes. Once the election is over we go back to same old same old. ‘Cause our guy won (or worse our guy lost). Then they’ll cry that jeez we tried to see it your way and you still don’t trust us. I don’t see the spots on this leopard changing quite that fast.

    • Tansy greenpeas

      True, but at least they are acknowledging the truth out loud for the first time (that I’m aware of). It’s a start.

      • UpstateNYObserver

        I hope so, I really do. But there’s also been a huge amount of press regarding the changing demographics in the US and the impact it will have on these folks. The only way to counter that is to try to co-opt at least some people. Their problem is that their rhetoric that’s been bombastically consistent since Nixon doesn’t have a lot of wiggle room for this kind of nuance. Maybe, just maybe this can start a new meme that conservatives (real ones, not the Evangelicals and TP’ers) can use to take their party back. The rest of would have a functional government again if it works.

  • The Librarian

    After I picked my jaw up off the floor, I must say how surprising, but welcome, it is to read this. Going to read those posts in full, but I’ll ignore any comments there might be.

  • mhandrh

    What have these guys done for years?
    Have they turned a blind eye to truth and facts, but encouraged the bigots, racists and other sociopaths, while enjoying their concomitant popularity and personal celebrity.
    Did they condemn Trump and his hateful words?
    The current crop of Republicans have brought words of racists and bigots out into the open.
    Ironically, the BLM protest before the sniper attack was peaceful and uneventful. Blaming BLM and even the president is the mantra of the GOP. Columnists who show remorse on this “day after” will need to do more than write one column of sorrow.
    If they are sincere, they must use their access and ability to educate their readers, and condemn the racists and bigots, regularly and continually.

    • guest1331now

      Amen aho righton. Newt vs. Hannity, cage match.

    • I am Putin

      “The current crop of Republicans have brought words of racists and bigots out into the open”

      So it’s the Republicans fault that the registered Democrat killed the police officers in Dallas, and Republicans fault that the Obama/Bernie/Clinton supporting BLM “protestors” sing songs to kill police officers?
      Even MY power of indoctrination can’t make stupid Americans believe this, but you can.

      As you say in America- High five!

      • LegionOfDo

        There are many stupid Americans supporting Trump, so don’t underestimate the power of stupidity.

        • I am Putin

          Not as many as the stupid and violent and criminal Americans supporting Democrats

          • LegionOfDo

            Looks like I touched a nerve! Whoopsie!

  • guest1331now

    And this from Newty-Newt (after a black man shot cops!): : “It took me a long time, and a number of people talking to me through the years, to get a sense of this: If you are a normal white American, the truth is you don’t understand being black in America and you instinctively underestimate the level of discrimination and the level of additional
    risk.” http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/08/politics/republican-lawmakers-black-americans/ (BTW, we can say that that’s the academic usage of ‘normal’ as in ‘near the norm, between the standard deviations’, and not the subtly racist usage ….)

    That hit me, for about 20 minutes, the same way Obama winning in 2008 did.
    http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/archive/2008/11/1_123125_123102_2180567_2203654_081110_cb_jessejacksontn.jpg.CROP.original-original.jpg
    This kind of honest is (as I and mhandrh and others have pointed out) small recompense for decades of Southern Strategy and get-out-the-vote dogwhistling BS about welfare reform and law’n’order. And shit, he only said it because white cops got shot + demographic shifties + nasty scarey race-war mutterings from his right (!) + oh, yeah, whatever actual decency he can muster.

    Newt still registers as Level Four Hypocrite on my scopes, But he said it, it’s true, it’s THERE and he can’t take it back! So yay!
    #Jessewept #sorryforznytupos

  • Jon Sussex

    So, are they both having a Lee Atwater conversion?

  • Pongo

    I really doubt that this will make the slightest difference to any of their readers. They will do what conservatives have always done when they encounter an idea that shoves up against their own, innate sense of self-righteous privilege which is to whip out the RINO brand and run them out of town on a rail covered in tar and feathers.

    • guest1331now

      Yes, no difference, as long as these informations stay outside the standard deviations —
      https://purestone.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/iq-bell-curve.jpg?w=510&h=263

      ………………… ^ Wonketariat ……………………… Deepderpetarians ^

      But now Newt is saying the same http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/08/politics/republican-lawmakers-black-americans/ and that is going to go in ears of people in that big bulge in the middle like my mother, who is a ‘What racism? Obama won!’ racist. So maybe some of THOSE folks will go, huh! Really? Newt said that? And Rubio? I thought racism was just a libtard strawman …

      Hoping.

      • I am Putin

        its very good

      • going4baroque

        are you aware that in the graph of the bell curve you posted and labelled with Wonketariat that the Wonketariat falls on the borderline retarded to the flat out no holds barred retarded? Jerking us around or whut?

        • phoenix00

          yes. We are all certified batshiat

        • guest1331now

          Irony. (No, I had not actually looked at the labelling on the graph — just goes to show that even we geniums here in Wonkeheaven are not infallible yet!)

  • Bernie Bro

    A lot of the news media stories are engaged in hand-wringing about ‘Dallas’ and race relations there when the shooter is actually from Mesquite.

    Anyhow I have a (what I think is) funny story involving Mesquite. I have a friend who is a black cop in Mesquite. I was forwarded a YouTube of the local news covering Mesquite PD at one of those ‘blue lies matter*’ rallies. In the video, he is the only nonwhite dude and while he’s probably 6’4, he looked like Shaq compared to the other cops – it was hilarious. Small wonder they are quick to tase and shoot.

    *Regardless of what these thinkpieces say, Republicans clearly still have a 1950s-era view of the role of police. Overtly political Trump-supporting Dallas pastor Robert Jeffries was in the DMN and making a big hay about how his rich as balls congregants were going to ‘provide counseling’ to cops, etc. as if such a thing wouldn’t already be in their health insurance. And as opposed to any other actual public work…

  • CripesAmighty

    To be fair, Matt Lewis has been known to–on rare occasion–utter not crazy things, from time to time.

  • nightmoth

    Thx for this report, Evan. Since I go to those sites about as often as I pick up maggot-ridden road kill, I wouldn’t have seen these tiny rays of light penetrating the darkness.

  • BurgersAndFlies

    There’s a reason why I favor body cameras: it cuts both ways. It provides evidence of police abuse, and at the same time, it provides evidence for the police. There’s been videos posted online (none on hand, atm) where police open fire on a suspect as they draw a gun, and this was recorded by a body cam. Suddenly the reasoning to open fire becomes clear.

  • snark-lurker

    When did police officers start wearing body armoar? Seems like that’s when the militarization began (and continues) and their thing has been metamoarphizzing from “To Serve and to Protect” into Suppress and Control.
    Wehear in Snukalonia believe it is a tacktickle (and slow*) move strategically planned toward tyranny…by oligarckzes who permit/provide our faux demockracy as a mere pacifyer until they’re ready (logistically) to impose total control.

    …runs headlong into a conspiracy with padded walz…
    *frog in water heating on a stove thing

  • Claire Carton

    We all know what happens to conservatives who get rational. They are no longer welcome. The authoritarian jackboot lockstep of the red ones (say, do you remember when it was better dead than red? That’s weird, right?) comes from a cognitive style that doesn’t allow for things like nuance or dissent.

  • Conor Gladstone

    Rock on Evan! Huuuuge significance and bless your bad self for highlighting it. Thanks

  • guest1331now

    Yet moe hardly needed proof that Republicans are the flight-from-reality party:
    https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/files/2016/07/teslerdallas1.png&w=1484

    Wonkette = aaah.

  • Stulexington

    I think I understand what drives the apologist’s mind. Not the racists ones, the ones who just don’t want to accept:

    the idea that a modern, civilized society gave the highest symbol of courage, honour, honesty and integrity, a police officer’s badge to truly terrible people and allowed them to run amok, that idea is too terrifying to contemplate. There must be another reason this is happening.

    There isn’t.

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