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Everybody Must Get Stoned
Everybody Must Get Stoned

Donald Trump’s suggestion last week that of course there have to be criminal penalties for women who have abortions — even after he tried to walk it back — has caused no small amount of consternation among the Religious Right. For one thing, he had to go and spill the beans by saying the thing they don’t want to say publicly: criminalizing abortion will make women criminals. But for some reason, when they put it like that, suddenly their “pro life” position seems a whole lot less appealing to people who don’t quite buy the assertion that abortion is literally murder. Once Trump walked back to the more respectable position — we’ll only put doctors in jail — many fundies clucked approvingly and went back to pretending they didn’t want to turn roughly a third of women into jailbirds. Just their doctors, who might as well be charged with first degree murder.

But other fundies figured they had to Biblesplain things a little further, like poor old Pat Robertson, who seemed downright uncomfortable having to confront what passes for the logic of the “pro-life” stance, especially since Trump had to go and state it so openly:

You know, it’s interesting, what Trump says, it shocks people, but at the same time the old adage was that abortion is illegal, that it was murder, and consequently if it’s illegal and it’s murder then there had to be some penalty attached to it.

You can almost hear the gears grinding as Robertson realizes the “abortion = murder = execute the woman who killed her babby” position simply doesn’t have the support it should have, what with people being reluctant to send quite that many ladies to the lethal injection gurney. So maybe it would be more acceptable to only treat the clinician as the real bad guy:

That’s why it was so very, very hard to get any kind of legislation against this sort of thing. And now they say it should punish the provider who does the abortion, not the woman who is having it, which sounds more reasonable. In any event, if somebody says abortion is murder, then what do you do to somebody who commits murder? It’s a dilemma that people have been wrestling with and I’m certainly not going to get into it. But that does seem a bit draconian, but at the same time we’ve slaughtered close to 50 million unborn babies in America since Roe v. Wade. It’s been a slaughter that’s been unprecedented, and these are innocent human beings that are being slaughtered, and we have the scandal of Planned Parenthood auctioning off or selling off the various body parts of unborn babies, I mean it makes you sick to your stomach. These are human beings!

But golly darn it, people simply don’t seem to have the moral fortitude to actually follow through on the abortion is mass murder rhetoric, except for the crazies who actually go and murder some doctors in the belief that they’re literally killing Dr. Mengele. But the official position of “pro-lifers” is that you can call it murder and genocide all you want, as long as you don’t actually follow through and start killing people, because even if it makes God happy, it’s bad optics for your fundraising. Thank goodness Robertson remembered to throw in yet another reference to the non-existent Planned Parenthood auctions of fetus parts on e-BayBee, or he might have accidentally blurted out “Stone the whores like the Bible says to!” People might think that seems “draconian” for some reason.

Other “pro-life” zealots had less trouble embracing Trump’s original, unrevised opinion that women must be punished. Jay Sekulow, the chief counsel for a legal group founded by Robertson, the “American Center for Law and Justice,” was perfectly open to putting some filthy hoors in jail, if not the execution chamber, once Roe v Wade is overturned. Addressing the federal ban on “partial birth abortions” on his radio show Thursday, Sekulow was quite happy to spin out the logic of declaring fetuses to be “persons” and making abortion illegal. After first noting that in the current wimpy political climate, the law only penalizes doctors who perform the procedure, Sekulow looked forward to at least the possibility that some women could start getting jailed for baby-murdering:

That’s a different question from whether you legally could have statutes, if Roe v. Wade was overturned, that criminalized the abortion activity, including anybody that voluntarily — not coercion, not life of the mother, not rape or incest, because those would all be defenses — but could a state say if a woman voluntarily had a partial-birth abortion that that act could be criminalized, could a state say that? Sure, a state could say that. And if you believe that the child’s a person, well, I’m not so sure that that’s contradictory. Politically, we’ve got a very consistent position on that; we always focus on the abortion provider, not the woman, but that’s a different question than legally […]

Legally, yeah, a state could say anyone involved in the process in committing a crime.

Sekulow’s cohost, his son Jordan, popped in to add, “We’re talking hypotheticals here, I think it’s a long road until we get to that point where those kind of abortion laws would be potentially in place.” But that doesn’t mean it’s not a bad idea to start building a good-sized pile of stones the minute President Cruz makes a few Supreme Court appointments.

As the conversation progressed, Sekulow lamented that all this focus on only punishing doctors really is a regrettable half-measure, and that if Americans really agreed that every fertilized egg is a human being, it would be a lot easier to start putting women in jail for having abortions, the way we really should:

Because if you really believe that the unborn child’s a person … you would say, if somebody voluntarily did this for the purposes of birth control — which is generally what it is, is an inconvenience, not medically necessary … you think to yourself, if it’s really a person, what’s so, what’s so — but we aren’t there yet politically and we’re not there maybe even legally or morally, and that may be shame on us in one sense.

We like that uncomfortable trailing off after “what’s so…” It’s almost as if he didn’t want to finish that thought in public. Sekulow emphasized he’s just spitballing here, because for now at least, the Christian Right has to “win hearts and minds” before the mass jailings of women (and presumably anyone involved in an abortion, like a parent or spouse who pays for one) can really get rolling. Ultimately, he admitted, that’s where the logic really needs to go in the Republic of Gilead:

But the problem is, if you really logically look at this, the fact of the matter is, if it’s a person for goodness sake, and I believe it is, the rules would be different. For any other person that somebody killed, they’d be held culpable, either as the primary person or the accessory to the crime. So this is not, it’s not craziness what’s being said here

But again, he says, for the sake of politics, it’s too soon to be too open about that, so just hush up, Mr. Trump.

Finally, Wingnut’s Wingnut Bryan Fischer weighed in on the matter Thursday, explaining to a caller on his radio show that Donald Trump merely made a little mistake in speaking too soon, because right now, the official position of the “Pro Life” movement is that while doctors are brutal baby-killing murderers, women who have abortions are merely innocent victims who’ve been led astray by propaganda from evil feminists and progressives:

The problem, Fischer explains, is that right now our culture is so polluted by liberalism that haven’t yet reached “the place where everybody understands that it’s a baby,” so for the time being, we have to focus on closing down clinics, punishing doctors, and making legal abortions harder to get. Then, in some glorious future age when everyone realizes fetuses are people, we can start talking about punishing women, too, because they’ll finally know it’s sinful, HOORAY! But right now, women who have abortions simply

do not realize how morally culpable they are for what happened until later, and then the reality of what they have done kind of crashes in on them and then it just devastates them when they realize what they’ve done. They didn’t know better. Nobody told them, nobody tried to talk them out of it, nobody explained the humanity of the baby in the womb, so they did not know what they were doing.

Which would be a pretty effective critique, apart from being almost completely bogus, at least if you believe mere science, like the 2015 study which found only a tiny percentage of women were overwhelmed with guilt after an abortion:

According to a new study that tracked hundreds of women who had abortions, more than 95 percent of participants reported that ending a pregnancy was the right decision for them. Feelings of relief outweighed any negative emotions, even three years after the procedure.

Fischer can handwave that away, of course, since it merely proves that 95 percent of slutty baby-killing women have been brainwashed by secularism, and don’t yet realize how terribly damaged they should feel, the poor dumb things. In any case, that kind of thinking will be gone just as soon as everyone in America gets right with God and bans abortion, after which we can get on with the serious business of punishing women the way they deserve. For now, you know it’s a pretty weird crowd when Bryan Fischer is the guy who sounds most compassionate on whether women should be punished for abortions — for now.

[RightWingWatch / RWW again / RWW a third time, even]

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  • Anarchy Pony

    Not only are there not provisions against abortion in the bible, it is actually endorsed in cases of adultery.

    • Shhhh…stoning for adultery is just waiting in the wings.

      • memzilla

        Doesn’t adultery usually start with getting stoned?

        • Anarchy Pony

          Only if you’re cool.

      • Swampgas_Man

        I assume this only applies to wimmens.

      • nmmagyar

        The only sluts that need to be punished for having abortions are the unmarried. Same goes for BC. For whatever passes as reason to these fucksticks BC and abortions are A-OK when married women do it (usually because daddy need new golf clubs more than he needs a fourth child).

    • BurgersAndFlies

      What verses? I want to make wingnuts heads explode.

      • Anarchy Pony

        I don’t remember the exact verse but it involves making a potion that has dust from floor in it.

        • Damian L

          Conservatives don’t have dust on the floor.God gave them a Mexican for that.

        • H0mer0

          ” I will show you fear in a handful of dust.”

      • Angela Ruzzo

        Check out Numbers 5:11-31. “May your womb miscarry.”

      • Will in Pgh

        Jeremiah 1:5 (BBE) Before you were formed in the body of your mother I had knowledge of you, and before your birth I made you holy; I have given you the work of being a prophet to the nations.

        • Anarchy Pony

          A specific prophet.

          • therblig

            a material profit?

          • H0mer0

            only if underpants gnomes are involved.

        • Angela Ruzzo

          Doesn’t apply to non-prophets. God is speaking to Jeremiah personally.

    • doktorzoom

      But there’s also a reference to God saying “I knew you when you were in your mother’s womb,” which is exactly the same as “You are a person with all the rights under the Constitution that will be written in another 4000 years.”

      • Anarchy Pony

        But as we all know God wrote the constitution and had Jesus personally hand it to George Washington when he was crucified at Valley Forge.

    • jmhm

      Oh, but remember, Marion is the spriitual ancestor of everyone who ever refused to make a cupcake in the service of teh gai. After dixiecrat Senator Daddy got him safely tucked away from combat as a liquor officer in the navy he tried to get them to let him go early because he didn’t approve of liquor and sailers cuss too much and fornicate and stuff.

      Of course, then he went on to use tax-free charitable donations for people fleeing the Rwandan genocide to go into partnership with Mobuto to use slave labor mining conflict diamonds, but God doesn’t really have a firm stand on stuff like that.

      Whores, though, he has a plan for.

      • Objectifer

        I beg to differ. There’s lots of justification in the bibble for slavery.

        • jmhm

          Not so much for stealing the money from dying people to buy a time share in someone else’s slaves. At least, I don’t think so.

      • Anarchy Pony

        *descendant*

      • mirele

        Oh, wow. That reminded me of how much my late father hated Pat Robertson. Dad served in Korea–he was a cook on the front lines and yes, they got attacked on a regular basis. The idea that Robertson got a cushy gig as liquor officer really irritated him.

        • H0mer0

          “Liquor officer”? what kinda insignia do they wear?(and do their officers wear shiny or subdued rank? Asking for a thirsty friend…)

      • Aquaria

        Are you high? The genocidal sky tyrant goes into great detail about who can be enslaved, why, and for how long:

        Here’s what Leviticus 25 has to say about it:

        מד וְעַבְדְּךָ וַאֲמָתְךָ, אֲשֶׁר יִהְיוּ-לָךְ: מֵאֵת הַגּוֹיִם, אֲשֶׁר סְבִיבֹתֵיכֶם–מֵהֶם תִּקְנוּ, עֶבֶד וְאָמָה.

        44 And as for thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, whom thou mayest
        have: of the nations that are round about you, of them shall ye buy
        bondmen and bondmaids.

        מה וְגַם מִבְּנֵי הַתּוֹשָׁבִים הַגָּרִים עִמָּכֶם, מֵהֶם תִּקְנוּ, וּמִמִּשְׁפַּחְתָּם אֲשֶׁר עִמָּכֶם, אֲשֶׁר הוֹלִידוּ בְּאַרְצְכֶם; וְהָיוּ לָכֶם, לַאֲחֻזָּה.

        45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them may ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they have begotten in your land; and they may be your possession.

        מו וְהִתְנַחַלְתֶּם אֹתָם לִבְנֵיכֶם אַחֲרֵיכֶם, לָרֶשֶׁת אֲחֻזָּה–לְעֹלָם, בָּהֶם תַּעֲבֹדוּ; וּבְאַחֵיכֶם בְּנֵי-יִשְׂרָאֵל אִישׁ בְּאָחִיו, לֹא-תִרְדֶּה בוֹ בְּפָרֶךְ. {ס}

        46 And ye may make them an inheritance for your children after
        you, to hold for a possession: of them may ye take your bondmen for
        ever; but over your brethren the children of Israel ye shall not rule,
        one over another, with rigour.

        This is not the only place where slavery is condoned and explicitly sanctioned. It’s only one of the examples that is most specific.

        • jmhm

          Um. It’s not actually a precursor to my being sarcastic on a website. But thank you for saving me many minutes on Google?

        • Zyxomma

          I was horrified recently when I found out that before anything else, a brand new Hebrew student is taught Leviticus. Not Genesis, not Exodus; Leviticus. BIG tool for maintaining the Patriarchy.

  • coozledad

    These people are completely inconsistent. Until there’s a mention of chopping off dicks, you know they’re just blowing smoke out their ass.

    • Mr Corrections

      So you’re pro-abobbition?

      • Mr Corrections

        (DID YOU SEE WHAT I DID THERE, IT WAS REALLY CLEVER)

        • Anarchy Pony

          Yes, yes, well done.

          • Mr Corrections

            I crave validation and also it was not a very good joke

          • Ricky Gay

            i left u a tip

          • jmhm

            So did Lorena.

          • Vecciojohn LLC

            Oh, you’re likable enough.

        • nmmagyar

          *golf clap*

          • proudgrampa

            ^this^

        • Vecciojohn LLC

          I wish I had thought of that. Good one!

        • A Bashful Nobody

          I is confuze!

        • Good_Gawd_Yall

          I thought it was very cleaver, indeed.

          • H0mer0

            but not in a “Beaver” way.

      • coozledad

        Only in the case of CPAC.

      • kev

        my dick’s too long. maybe i’l ask lorena to bobbit.

    • Vecciojohn LLC
  • Mr Corrections

    Watching the GOP find out how insanely unpopular their opinions are never gets old.

    • coozledad

      All you need is a reality show where someone crashes a GOP drank party in Atlanta, or Raleigh, or even better, Birmingham, with a camera strapped to them.

      After the first couple of rounds of drinks there’ll be one or two “Hitler was alrights” followed by “”Say what you like about them Mexicans, but they work better than nigras” followed by “My wife never understood me like you do, Steve.”

      • Vecciojohn LLC

        I never ast the gumint fer nuthin’!

        • jmhm

          Which is why they should keep their grubby paws out of your Medicaid.

          • Vecciojohn LLC

            Clinton raised taxes on Social Security!

  • Professor Fate

    I read this stuff and keep thinking about the prayer of St. Francis : “Lord, make me an instrument of Your peace. Where there
    is hatred, let me sow love; where there is injury, pardon; where there
    is doubt, faith; where there is despair, hope; where there is darkness,
    light; where there is sadness, joy.”
    such a disconnect it’s a wonder to behold – one wonders if these folks think the second verse says “ha ha just kidding hate and punish the womens for being women things and hate and punish the gays for being gay things and hate and punish the rest just because.”

    • Angela Ruzzo

      St. Francis’ teaching only applies to white men dealing with other white men. There were no minorities in 13th century Italy, and women don’t count.

      • Professor Fate

        his ‘third order’ included men and women and he founded an order of nuns. He referred to all animals as ‘his brothers and sisters’ – his major concern was with the poor and helpless and he even attempted to try and end the crusades – there are many many pious hypocrites in the history of religion. Francis, who one has to admit was a product of his time, was not one of them.

        • Jen_Baker_VA

          I always liked Francis the most, and Theresa little flower too. There are some people who, no matter their origin story, were good people.

          • Professor Fate

            St Theresa of the little flower was a favorite of my mom -(was raised Roman Catholic – but I’ve let the subscription lapse a long time ago)

        • Angela Ruzzo

          HE wasn’t a hypocrite, but many people who quote him today often are. Even in his own day he was misunderstood by many.

          • Professor Fate

            This is true – I’m Just continually amazed and depressed by the vast gap between word and deed in people professing to be religious.

          • Angela Ruzzo

            Religion seems to short-circuit the logic and reason parts of the human brain. I guess that’s why they call it “brain washing.” My favorite quotation is “If god is omnipotent, then he is not benevolent. If god is benevolent, then he is not omnipotent.” I have yet to say that to a religious fanatic and have them come up with an answer other than “God’s will is mysterious and humans can never understand it” which means, in translation, “I don’t know, stop asking me to think about it.”

          • Professor Fate

            Job is an attempt to wrestle with this – as are many many Greek Tragedies – and if you are going to be religious you have to squarely address this . you may not get an answer but you do need to deal with this central problem.

          • Angela Ruzzo

            There was a news article on Yahoo News yesterday with a title something like “Why does God let bad things happen to people?” Of course the answer is god has nothing to do with it. God gave people a very clear list of fairly simple rules that a child can understand, and a fairly pleasant planet to live on, and then god went off to do other things and left us to it. If things get screwed up, it’s our fault, or else it’s just Nature being Nature. That’s if you believe in god, of course.

            For example, everyone knows that the Gulf of Mexico has hurricanes, yet millions of people keep moving to the Gulf Coast, or already live there and refuse to move away. I did it
            myself, and I paid the price. Nobody held a gun to my head and forced me to move there six weeks before Hurricane Katrina. God had nothing to do with it. I knew the rules, and I flouted them.

          • Lamashtar

            Eh, I have no trouble with the mysterious part. It’s the part where the Bible is supposed to make sense and God is used as an excuse for anything. The god in my head says that stuff is nonsense!

          • Angela Ruzzo

            It’s important to remember that the Bible was not written all at once, or by one person. It is a cobbled-together bunch of writings from many people over many centuries, some of whom were better at expressing themselves than others, and not all of whom were in agreement. Some of them admit in their writings that they, themselves couldn’t write and are dictating to a friend, and you know what happens when you get a second party involved in telling a tale. The result is occasionally contradictory, and sometimes makes no sense at all. I learned a great deal from a book called “Freedom In The Ancient World” which discusses how the concepts of “freedom” and “tyranny” were defined in various ancient cultures, including the ancient Hebrew tribes. It is out of print, but if you can find it, it is worth reading. It is Volume I of a series.

          • Lamashtar

            Once I discovered actual evidence-based science studying the reality of the Bible events, it actually made it more interesting to me. But I’m a history nerd, and get more excited about that, than fairy tale stuff that isn’t written that well.

          • Angela Ruzzo

            I like the same thing. I am also a history nut. Any history, but particularly Ancient history and English history. I saw the Colosseum and Parthenon when I was 12 – I nearly died of joy. Saw King Richard III reburied last year – ditto.

          • H0mer0

            did they also discuss “Libety” and “Tranny”?

          • Angela Ruzzo

            Of course! Anything we have today, they had in ancient times. Except flush toilets and tampons and tylenol and. . . better stop there.

        • A Bashful Nobody

          I may be disqualified for being an agnostic, but New Pope seems pretty Francis like.

          • Professor Fate

            he does mange to make a lot of the right people angry at him.

          • lroom

            I love New Pope! Also love that Saint Francis cared so much about animals and the poor. We had a statue of him in our garden when I was a kid and even though I wasn’t Catholic I liked the guy.

      • Vecciojohn LLC

        Women shouldn’t be taught how to count. It was Woman brought sin into the Garden.

        • kev

          what kind of bait is used to lure sinful women into one’s garden?

          • Jonny On Maui

            “Wanna get stoned?”

          • kev

            must be great in maui.

          • Jonny On Maui

            It does have its moments…

          • Pickwicknext

            Apples and a British accent

          • jmhm

            Gift baskets, surely.

          • kev

            please don’t call me shirley.

        • Angela Ruzzo

          Actually it was god – by giving Adam and Eve a stupid rule he knew they were bound to break. If it was Paradise, what was the devil doing in there? God must have let him in. It was a plot, probably funded by Osama Bin Laden. LOL

          • Professor Fate

            There is a lot of weirdness in the Adam and Eve story – for one the Serpent is an ancient ancient symbol of wisdom and rebirth (skin shedding and all that ) and the caduceus the intertwined serpents (looking not unlike the double helix of DNA if your mind wanders that way) and the tree is called the tree of knowledge of good and evil or simply knowledge – how and why would God want us not to know? Then of course there is the other tree that of eternal life which makes god and his angels or whatevers hustle Adam and Eve out of Eden once they eaten the fruit of the first tree. It almost reads like someone took old myth where the Serpent rescued mankind from life as a simple animal -( think Prometheus and his gift of fire to humankind) and warped it to make the serpent the bad guy.

            I spend wayyyyyy to much time thinking about things like this.

          • Angela Ruzzo

            It is actually an extremely clever story written by some very smart, serious thinkers long ago, who grasped a basic evolutionary concept but had no knowledge of science or detailed anatomy. Humans are actually born about one year premature in development, compare to other mammals – with no teeth, unable to walk or communicate, unable to feed themselves, for quite a long time. This is necessary because our much larger brains, in proportion to our body size, would not pass through a woman’s birth canal if the baby stayed in the uterus an extra year. It is our bigger brain that gives us consciousness of self, which means understanding the concepts of good and evil. Ancient people lived close to the land and to animals, and they somehow glimpsed a little bit of this reality, they just didn’t understand it. When ancient people didn’t understand something, they figured god had a hand in it somewhere. Modern people are still doing this.

          • Vecciojohn LLC

            According to John Barth, the snake was just god in disguise making his plot come to fruition.

          • Angela Ruzzo

            Well it’s an allegory, so the snake could have lots of meanings. Perhaps the snake was god and god was the devil in disguise? I never heard anyone mention that.

          • Vecciojohn LLC
          • Angela Ruzzo

            Buddha was a wise man. He wasn’t very nice to his wife, however, abandoning her the way he did.

          • Vecciojohn LLC

            Another of my childish dreams shattered.

      • Zyxomma

        There were Jews. Plenty. Things declined for them starting in the 12th Century, but there have been Jews in Italy for over 2000 years.

        • Angela Ruzzo

          You are quite correct. But throughout Europe the Jews were not counted as citizens after the Roman Empire fell, and could, and often were, expelled at the whim of the rulers. Edward I did this in England in 1290. At the time, Jews had lived in England for over 200 years, but they were never classified as citizens.

    • kev

      i prefer st. augustine: lord make me chaste but not yet.

      • PubOption

        He wasn’t even a RINO, more of a Hippo.

    • theCryptofishist

      St. Francis wasn’t exactly a favorite of the church when he was alive. More of a rabble-rouser as I understand.

      • Professor Fate

        well that whole living a life of poverty rubbed a lot of Cardinals – the princes of the church as they were called – the wrong way. After all they were from the nobility and lived that way – good foods clothes, lots of servants and comfy beds. Francis’ message would naturally grate.

        • theCryptofishist

          Make Francis Grate Again!

          (Sorry, it had to be said.)

  • Pinkham’s Law

    I guess they want to save us the trouble of making a slippery slope argument by making it for us.

  • SessileRaptor

    I eagerly await the first conviction of a company CEO because his corporation failed to provide health care or adequate pay, leading to a woman in their employ miscarrying.

    • Anarchy Pony

      Or causing pollution that led to miscarriage or birth defects.

  • Msmlg1979

    This article is so chock-full of utter and complete bullshit, I don’t even know where to begin. I’ll leave it at how men who will never be pregnant should shut right the fuck up, and fuck right the fuck off. You will never stop people from having sex, because it is a good, and natural thing. You will never dehumanize women, and make us property and slaves again. You’re coming for my rights, and my body? You better be ready for the fight of a lifetime, and you keep right on underestimating me. It will make it that much easier to destroy you, and stomp you down into irrelevance and silence where you belong.

    • OddMan

      Amen Sister!
      And there are lots of men on your side of this fight.

      • Msmlg1979

        Good. We need and want you fighting with us!

  • baconzgood
    • Blank Ron

      Only two?

      • Jonny On Maui

        It’s still early…

      • baconzgood

        It’s only noon.

  • memzilla

    Just wait till President Hillz re-animates Zombie Margaret Sanger and appoints her Chief Justice.

  • Spurning Beer

    Women who have abortions should be put to death, for the health of the mother.

    • Latverian Diplomat

      “spiritual health”

  • Sardonicuss

    Serious question: How in the fuck are there still “Republican” women in this country?
    It is literally intrinsic to their platform that women are to be subjugated in every aspect of their lives.
    Related: I would like to see Grandpa preacher and the others mentioned, do a movie review of the “Handmaids Tale” (not the book, they would never make it through), since it is apparently a prescient documentary of their fantasy future and not a dystopian nightmare.

    • Ricky Gay

      to paraphrase above: …maybe they have been brainwashed by religion, and don’t yet realize how terribly damaged they should feel, the poor dumb things.

      • nmmagyar

        Multi-generational brainwashing

    • Swampgas_Man

      Just as easily ask howcome Republican Gaiz or African-Americans or brown folks.

    • alwayspunkindrublic

      Never underestimate the power of self-loathing.

    • AlanInSF

      Abused women often have trouble leaving their abusive partners.

    • malsperanza

      1. Deeply conservative, deeply traditional religious. For many women who are Republican, opposition to abortion is probably the main thing that keeps them in the GOP.

      2. For others, it’s the same anti-tax class resentment that drives the whole party. Canvassing voters, I come across a fair number of GOP women, for whom the thinking goes like this:

      None of the restrictions and oppressions the GOP wants to put on women affect me personally. I am married, I don’t need an abortion (and if I do, I’ll know a way to get one). I have a job, and it pays ok, so I’m not personally discriminated against. The oppressive laws they want to enact really only affect poor [black/immigrant] people, not me. And those anti-discrimination laws are really designed not to help people but to disadvantage me, because Democrats hate to see people enjoying success; they want to cut me down to size.

      What I hate most of all is having to pay taxes that go to help other people. It’s stealing from my children to give to other people’s children. And they are lazy and don’t deserve it anyway. But I work hard and so does my husband, so why should we be punished? So that is my big issue.

      3. Israel. (For one category of Jewish voters.)

    • darnyoudarnyoutoheck
      • Zyxomma

        I read that some time ago. Thanks for posting.

  • Angela Ruzzo

    After Hurricane Katrina, Pat Robertson said god sent the hurricane to punish the “ungodly sinners in New Orleans.” He forgot to do his research, because only a few thousand people live in the French Quarter, not all of whom are sinners, and there are 1.5 million pretty ordinary people living outside it. I lived in Slidell, 15 miles away, and Slidell got hit pretty hard, and as far as I know Slidell’s 40,000 people were pretty average folks, and mostly church-goers. I, myself, have not committed a major or minor sin since I was in college, but god apparently thought otherwise because my house flooded. Apparently god has piss-poor aim. Also, I believe god said in the Old Testament that he wouldn’t do that kind of thing anymore. I think Pat reads the abridged version of the Bible, but it doesn’t really matter because he is an idiot.

    • nmmagyar

      Isn’t Louisiana pretty heavily tilted Catholic? Catholics are just as bad as Jews or Muslims to these folk.

      • Jen_Baker_VA

        Yeah but then he neglected that so many good baptists got all drowned out in neighboring states, so I guess God is into punishing the innocent along with the guilty again

        • Blank Ron
        • nmmagyar

          Historically, God has shitty aim

          • PubOption

            For many years, the tornadoes that have hit the St. Louis area have gone through boring suburban communities, missing the gay bar strip and the abortion clinic by miles.

      • Angela Ruzzo

        Parts of Louisiana are very Catholic. But large parts are fundamentalist Protestant. The fundamentalist Protestants are much more vocal against abortion than the Catholics. My fundamentalist Protestant minister uncle is what you are talking about – he hates blacks, Catholics, Jews, Muslims and gays equally – well maybe he hates gays more. He can always find a Bible verse to take out of context and support his position.

        • malsperanza

          And yet more Protestant women have abortions than Catholic:

          More than seven in 10 U.S. women obtaining an abortion report a religious affiliation (37% Protestant, 28% Catholic and 7% other), (Source: Guttmacher Institute)

          One of life’s little mysteries.

          • Angela Ruzzo

            Most of the Catholic girls I grew up with – and most of my female relatives – left the Catholic Church in their late teens or early 20’s, which may explain the lower %. If I had been asked at age 22 what my religion was, I would have said “none.”

          • malsperanza

            These are women who self-identify as religious.

            In other words, the 30% of American women who have abortions do not consider them in conflict with religion, ethics, or morality because they are pretty sure they’re not killing babies.

          • Angela Ruzzo

            Most of the Catholic women of my generation with whom I was acquainted – the first generation of young girls to grow up with widely available birth control – and the following generation, were very aware that the Catholic Church was run by old men who dislike and devalue women. Unlike our older sisters and cousins, we were not sent to Catholic schools. We were horrified by the constant childbearing imposed on our grandmothers. We had choices our grandmothers and mothers never had, thank heavens. We simply ignored the teachings we didn’t agree with until the day came in our early 20’s when we thought “Why are we still going to this church?” and turned to other philosophies.

          • malsperanza

            So, if you were interviewed in a poll, would you identify yourself as “religious Catholic”?

          • Angela Ruzzo

            No, I’m a devout Atheist.

          • malsperanza

            That’s my point. The stats from Guttmacher refer to people who have abortions and who also identify as religious Christians. They remain religious and believing, and also have abortions.

            This is significant because it undercuts the claim of the anti-choice people that no decent Christian would have an abortion.

          • Angela Ruzzo

            You are right. But I am 60 years old, and will not need an abortion. My point was that when I was young, before I officially became an Atheist and might have found myself needing an abortion, I and my friends and relatives of my generation who were Catholic would certainly have identified ourselves as “Catholic” in a poll even though we mostly disregarded the dogma we disagreed with, and no longer attended services on a regular basis. My oldest sister is 12 years older than me, and went to a Catholic school, which I did not, and even though she has not attended services for 50 years, she still identifies as a “Catholic.” Her generation grew up with very different influences than mine. In my mother’s generation, you never questioned ANYTHING the Catholic Church or the Pope said. This is no longer true with younger Catholics.

          • Zyxomma

            Case in point: Italy. One of the lowest, if not THE lowest, birth rates in the developed world.

          • Angela Ruzzo

            Very true. I lived in Spain from 1975 to 1976 (Franco died while I was there), and the young people were just beginning to question Catholic dogma. They have come a long way since then.

        • Aquaria

          You can pretty much draw a line through Louisiana just north of Baton Rouge, and the state is like two completely different places.

          In fact, you can use I-10 to determine what parts of states from Texas to Alabama to avoid. The further north you go from I-10, the more likely the locals will be deep fried fundy racist nutbag conservafilth, a la Birmingham, Alabama. South of it is boozed up Catholic hedonism, 24/7. Occasionally, there’s an exception, like Austin, but that’s within 100 miles of I-10, so the rule still holds.

          • Angela Ruzzo

            You are right, but I had to live in Baton Rouge for 6 months after Katrina, and I think your line runs right through that city, and not north of it. It was as different from New Orleans and Slidell as night and day, and everywhere I went I kept running into religious fundamentalists telling me to “have a blessed day.” People actually prayed over me in a Baton Rouge Wal-Mart one day!!!! It took me about 1 week to realize that I could not live in Baton Rouge.

    • limberrat

      WND attempted a similar thing with Katrina and Oscar claiming there was a LGBT festival in the French Quarter the week before both hurricanes hit. They “questioned” whether God was pissed at the Gays and that was why God hit New Orleans with hurricanes. Needless to say the (former) coworker who sent it to me got a massive earful from me and if she wasn’t planning on retiring a week after she sent it, she would have had a nice visit with our HR department.

      • Angela Ruzzo

        One could say that every week in the French Quarter is an LGBT festival. There is always something interesting going on there. The last week of August is not a popular time for festivals in Louisiana, as it is hot as Hades and as humid as a steam bath. I read the Times-Picayune every day, and I do not recall any major festival at that time. If there had been one, I would have gone, as I had never been to an LGBT festival, and it would have been a new experience.

        There was possibly some one-night event at a French Quarter club or restaurant, and this was distorted by devious media.

        Besides, Katrina did not hit New Orleans, it passed it by. It was the storm surge and heavy rain and lack of adequate pumps that caused the levees to collapse hours after Katrina had moved on and devastated Slidell, which it hit with great accuracy, as if a bullseye had been painted on the town. Slidell is run by Southern Baptists and other Evangelicals, so if god was pissed at Gays, he must have very bad maps, or a defective GPS, or else there are a lot of people in Slidell in the closet. The levees collapsed because the Corps of Engineers are idiots, which has nothing to do with god or Gays.

        • limberrat

          Wow, found the article!
          http://www.wnd.com/2012/08/eerie-bible-coincidence-for-hurricane-isaac/

          For me, the article hit a nerve since Katrina affected people my wife’s family knew when she lived there as a girl (her dad was in the oil industry) and my best friend was going to Tulane at the time.

          What is sad about the woman who sent it was that two of her kids were gay and she was one the most homophobic people I ever met.

          • Angela Ruzzo

            The article explains a lot. If it was scheduled for the Wednesday before Labor Day in 2005, as the article says it always is, then that Wednesday was 2 days AFTER Katrina, and they could not possibly have held a festival, since only the French Quarter was above water at the time, and only people who did not or could not evacuate were still there, and the airport was closed, as were all roads into the city. There was no power, no food, and no water. I’m not surprised, however, that there was a small march – there wasn’t much else to do at the time, and they were expecting help any day, which did not come for several more days.

            The fact that the only part of New Orleans proper that was not flooded was the French Quarter should put paid to any nonsense about heavenly retribution.

            There were 27 named storms and 15 hurricanes in 2005, so the odds that one of them would hit Key West in any one week was pretty high.

            How sad that this woman is homophobic. I find such attitudes difficult to understand both intellectually and emotionally. There is nothing that two men or two women do together in bed that men and women don’t often do together in bed as well. The main reason that ancient religions opposed it is because it did not serve their need to increase the number of followers by propagating the species.

            I think homophobic people were happier when this subject was in the closet. It is the public acceptance and “flaunting” of homosexuality that they find so painful, as it forces them to confront their beliefs, which they don’t know how to do as they haven’t used the logic circuits in their brains for years. Also, any kind of change is scary to some people. I am 60, and I already catch myself saying how much better things were when I was younger. Some things were better – Reagan had not yet been elected and nobody was picketing Planned Parenthood clinics and the Beatles were all alive – but mostly they were better because I was young, and the world was my oyster. I know I can’t have the 70’s back – but I’d like to be 22 years old again. If I could know then what I know now, of course, LOL.

            My oldest brother has 2 adult children, a boy and a girl, and both are gay. The only thing about this that concerns them is that it means they won’t have grandchildren to spoil, as neither is interested in adopting. It seems there will be zero grandchildren in my immediate family, which means “Adios, Ruzzos!”

        • Zyxomma

          And that storm surge was made much worse by MR-GO (Mississippi River Gas & Oil). You can see the video on Greg Palast’s website; it was made by a university professor BEFORE Katrina.

          • Angela Ruzzo

            MR-GO was the root of the whole problem in New Orleans. Add to that the inadequate storm water pumping system. About 4 weeks before Katrina, there was a TWO HOUR torrential rain storm in Slidell, where I was living, and the rain water backed up from the open storm water ditch along the road in front of my house, all across my yard, and all the way to within 1/2″ of my front door. If it had rained for 10 more minutes, there would have been water in my house. It took 6 hours for the water to drain away. I had just moved there, and was not familiar with this phenomenon, so I looked into it. I was told that all storm water in Slidell must be pumped UP to a nearby storage system, and that the Slidell storm water pumps could not handle that degree of rainfall – they were too slow. Now, you’d think if you live in Louisiana and are in charge of storm sewer runoff, you’d find faster pumps, don’t you? The pumps in use in New Orleans were even older, and even slower. I find it hard to believe that pump technology is that backwards. I realize that the latest, greatest pumps cost money, but if you live on the Gulf Coast this is something that taxpayers should be willing to finance. I know I would have voted for it.

  • Rufus T. Firefly

    Stoning women who had abortions will be a key plank in the 2024 GOP platform.

    • Pickwicknext

      One might even say it’s the foundation

  • handyhippie65

    i say we criminalize trying to force others to live by the rules of a religion that they don’t belong to.

    • Jonny On Maui

      Let’s start by taxing them like everyone else, well, not like the corporations, like real people…

    • Vecciojohn LLC

      I say we impose the death penalty for proselytizing.

      • PubOption

        And when they shout “Free speech”, point out that most expect to be paid for it.

      • handyhippie65

        i am willing to tolerate them, if they are willing to tolerate me. if not…your plan is as good as done. with sharp, pointy votes.

        • Vecciojohn LLC

          Make them stand in the town square with a big sign that says I’m a giant pain in the ass.

    • AlanInSF

      There you go again, stomping upon the right of religious people to impose their superstitions on you.

      • handyhippie65

        with my size 12 ee steel toed boots.

  • Tallmutha

    It really doesn’t matter what these people say now. What matters is what state legislatures will do once they’re free to make abortion illegal and start dreaming up punishments for it. Just remember that insane as Pat Robertson may be, our meth labs of democracy are filled with people who are way crazier.

    • Blank Ron

      ‘Meth labs of democracy.’ Deliciously apropos.

      • Tallmutha

        I cannot tell a lie, I stole that from (I think) Balloon Juice.

        • Blank Ron

          No worries. Always steal from the best!

  • Ami

    I”m SO glad Drumpf finally let the cat out the the bag. Operation Rescue and other whacko nut groups really DO what to punish women and have ALWAYS wanted to do so.
    Until the time when men like this old white Religious Rightwing whacko can actually GIVE BIRTH, they need to shut the fuck up!!
    I’m sick and tired of OLD WHITE MEN telling grown adult women what to do with THEIR OWN bodies.

    And don’t get me started about young girls who are victims of rape/ incest becoming pregnant.
    Old White Men like the nuts above want to FORCE that little girl to give birth to her rapist’s baby.
    To me that is TORTURE.

  • Jonny On Maui

    At some point some smart person is going to come up with a way to make people out of 2 ova. Once sperm is no longer required all this fuss should end in a generation or so…

  • Jeff Ackerman

    Hey Conservatives why are there no consequences to the horrible man that seduces, uses no form of birth control, impregnates, and then convinces the poor girl to get abortion? After all, with the girls assumed lack of morals, logic or whatever, the all knowing man should be held responsible. Or is sex ok for me, but not thee?

  • nightmoth

    Theologically speaking, the only thing that makes a human baby any more special than a sweet little lamb or calf that’s destined for the dinner table is the concept of ensoulment. (Biologically speaking, we are drawn to our own species and want to protect our young ones, but that’s another matter altogether, since these guys are coming at it theologically.) So—the point at which “ensoulment” occurs has varied in the Western world from one century to the next. At one time, during the early Middle Ages, ensoulment of a male fetus was thought to occur at 3 months and ensoulment of a female fetus at 6 months. (??!!) Abortion was acceptable up until those points in a pregnancy. At no time until the present was ensoulment of the fetus thought to occur when the embryo is only a fertilized egg, or a 32-celled blastocyst. An acorn is not yet an oak tree, an egg is not yet a chicken, and an embryo is not yet a baby. That, Brother Robertson, et al, is what YOU fail to understand.

    • Vecciojohn LLC

      Biology. Pfffft.

      • yyyaz

        Isn’t the name a tipoff? I mean “bi”- ology really has teh ghey taint, don’t it? Should be “manology.” Damned pointy-headed atheists want to send us all to hell.

    • Latverian Diplomat

      Since theology is just made up crap anyway, there are a wide variety of opinions that have found favor at various times. One common belief was that the fetus was not even “alive” until it’s movements could be detected (“the quickening”).

      Probably the most ancient concept of “ensoulment” was at birth, with the drawing of the first breath. (“Spirit” originally meant “breath”). Which kind of made sense, because the most definitive test for death was the cessation of breath (the mirror test, for example).

      tl;dr: Theology never settles any question, so it’s useless as a guide for law or other practical matters.

      • nightmoth

        My Dad was a nurse anesthetist and he always went with “drawing the first breath.” He was also a strong pro-choice advocate after seeing a couple of lovely young women die in the ER of septic shock caused by dirty abortions.

    • w9anthimos

      If you are Pat Robertson, “ensoulment” does not occur until after the 90th birthday.

      • Anarchy Pony

        If you’re Pat Robertson, you have no soul because you’re a tool of the Debbil.

      • Latverian Diplomat

        Pat Roberson’s Ensoulment Shakes are now available: $49.99 for a pack of four.

    • Angela Ruzzo

      The people that developed the ensoulment theory also believed that the sex of every child was determined by the mother, or failing that by god, and of course it isn’t. If the baby was a boy, it was a blessing from god. If the baby was a girl, they blamed the mother.

      Another fact that people like Pat fail to acknowledge is that as many as 40% to 50% of all pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion, which is called miscarriage if it happens in the last trimester. Many women don’t even know they are pregnant when the fetus spontaneously aborts. My mother lost a baby at 7 weeks, and she had no idea she was pregnant until then. So if god is responsible for making babies, then almost half the time god changes his mind.

      When I was a very little girl the issue of “unwed mothers” was big news. This was the mid-60’s. I was very confused by this, as I had been taught that god sent babies to married women. I thought “God sent a baby to an unmarried woman by mistake??? God makes mistakes????” A neighbor had no children, and my mother told me “She can’t have any.” I thought “How does she know? Did god send her a letter saying so?” By the time I was 10 it was clear to me that god had nothing to do with making babies. Otherwise he would not have sent 14 of them in 21 years to my grandmother, which eventually killed her.

      • nightmoth

        Thank you–very eloquent!

        • Angela Ruzzo

          You’re welcome.

      • Msgr_Moment

        Jehovah has miscarried billions of little souls. Stone Him!

        • Angela Ruzzo

          Miscarriages have changed the history of some countries, i.e. Katherine of Aragon. Apparently god wanted Henry VIII to split from Rome. He could surely have found an easier way.

          • Msgr_Moment

            Right. And it’s Henry that gets excommunicated. Bastard.

          • Angela Ruzzo

            You gotta watch those damn male narcissists every minute, I’m worn out with it. ?

      • Aquaria

        Miscarriage is in the first trimester. After that, it’s called stillbirth.

    • deanbooth

      Used to be that people thought almost everything was ensouled: planets, statues, plants, amulets, etc. In fact, anything that moved: “Motion results from having a soul, however, since it belongs to ensouled things to move themselves, which makes it impossible –by the power of the heavenly bodies –for something not ensouled to move itself. Yet they say it happens that a statue moves by itself or makes a sound by arts of magic …” — Thomas Aquinas, c. 1274

    • Ikimizi

      And in the OT, babies weren’t counted until a month after being born. Just one of the problems with the “the-bible-says-abortion-is-murder” idea.
      http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/abortion.html

  • Hemp Dogbane

    It’s way too early for stoning. Defenestration will do for now. Oh, look, here’s an Overton window!

    • Squirrel_t_robot

      Let’s get on with the tossing!

    • Jonny On Maui

      If it’s never to early to start drinking then wake and bake is a good thing too…

      • Querolous

        Thanks for reminding me.

  • Squirrel_t_robot

    Most women know about the biology of fetal development, and get the abortion anyway.

    • nightmoth

      And get it EARLY in the first trimester, because they know about the biology of fetal development.

      • Lamashtar

        Also it costs more the longer the embryo has developed.

        • Aquaria

          Because the procedure is more dangerous the further along the embryo is.

  • Blanche Beecham

    Well, I haven’t had an abortion today, but I wouldn’t mind getting stoned.

    • Jonny On Maui

      passes the morning bong…

  • alwayspunkindrublic

    I went to Walmart to stock up on stoning supplies, and they were all out of those rocks that I like. Good times…

    • Jonny On Maui

      The head shop I use doesn’t open unitl 10 am. Can’t figure out why…

    • Sardonicuss

      Head over to Hobby Lobby..they have a year round sale. And don’t forget Mardels, for all your book burning needs.

    • Latverian Diplomat

      Very tangential, but I did read an argument once that there are fewer violent riots now because we pave with asphalt and concrete instead of stones. So people can’t just pry loose some handy ammunition at a moments notice.

      • alwayspunkindrublic

        “Anybody up for an asphalting!? Oh, wait…”

      • eggsacklywright

        Gravel takes too long.

        • Latverian Diplomat

          And don’t get me started on how long throwing sand takes.

      • Pickwicknext

        Yeah. We’re not big on effort

      • Aquaria

        Here in San Antonio, we can dig for five seconds and find all the head-cracking rocks we need.

        Elsewhere, construction sites and urban decay can provide plenty of material.

  • OddMan

    It seems like the official position of the anti abortion crowd is that women are just breeding stock. And men are the owners of the ranch.

    • Angela Ruzzo

      You got it. Keep ’em barefoot and pregnant and in the kitchen.

      • pstockholm

        hej who said anything about barefoot? We’re not barbarians

        • Angela Ruzzo

          The highly “civilized” Chinese bound their women’s feet so they couldn’t walk very far and had to stay at home. Who are the barbarians and who are the civilized? It’s hard to tell.

          • Lamashtar

            I read an article telling me how more civilized the Chinese were, based on their values of harmony. I pointed out that the Chinese were still uncertain whether or not beating your wife was a good or bad thing.

          • Angela Ruzzo

            To say nothing of killing your girl babies (the Greeks did this too). And then there are chopsticks . . . surely the stupidest way to eat food ever invented.

          • Aquaria

            Is it stupid? In those places that use chopsticks, they tend to cook their food as bite-sized portions, which makes it both faster to cook and easier to eat.

          • Angela Ruzzo

            I think it is incredibly stupid and inefficient, at least in the US, where “bite size portions” are twice as big as I am comfortable with eating, and three times as big as my mother taught me to put in my mouth (being ladylike was important to her). I have eaten with many Chinese people, and while they handle the chopsticks most gracefully, they are mostly transferring food from a bowl held close to their faces into their mouths. This is not the etiquette with which I was taught to eat. At US Chinese restaurants I have to spend 2 minutes cutting everything up because the chunks are too big, then my friends who lived in Japan told me this is considered to be a very rude thing to do in Japan, as it tells the host they didn’t cut the food up properly. Well, I’m not in Japan, and they didn’t cut the food up properly, so what can I say? Two long, skinny pieces of wood is just not efficient. Give me a fork every time.

    • jmhm

      Kasich could have told you that. Hell, Cruz could have told you that, and his wife is his only reliable means of support.

  • therblig

    sister sarah will be in charge of trump’s “miscarriage panels” just to make sure no illegal activity took place.

  • DoILookAmused2u ?

    Bernie said this is distracting us from more important issues like Climate Change and Income Distribution, and then he went on to ‘splain he eats pizza without a fork.

  • TheBidenator

    I find it hilarious that wingnut men still live in this world where women are these dumb, weak-minded creatures who lack agency and only terminate a pregnancy because mean liberal harpies (who for some reason do have agency, I dunno it doesn’t make any sense to me, either) tell them to get abortions. Then, the moment the poor simple ladies realize what they’ve done it utterly destroys them while they’re talking with the other gals in the sewing circle. I really don’t think it is possible to arrive at a more patriarchal, misogynist opinion than that one….

    • baconzgood

      Abortions cut into time that should be spent making sammiches.

    • Latverian Diplomat

      Well they also believe that women only get pregnant in the first place because some willful man talks them into letting his seed into their hoohas.

      • Angela Ruzzo

        No, they get pregnant because they are sluts and whores, or else they want the Welfare benefits.

  • azeyote

    for being one of the worse, if not the worse, life form on this planet, people sure are uppity – human breeding is way overrated –

  • AlanInSF

    “…we have the scandal of Planned Parenthood auctioning off or selling off the various body parts of unborn babies….”

    Remember when “Thou shalt not bear false witness” was considered one of the Ten Commandments? Good times.

    • Anarchy Pony

      Yes, but lying for Jesus is A-okay.

      • Angela Ruzzo

        I don’t mind lying for Jesus nearly as much as I mind lying AS Jesus – by which I mean taking his words out of context to support their prejudices.

    • Pickwicknext

      I really want Martin Sheen to dramatically enter rooms quoting the 10 Commandments verbatim at wingnuts until their heads explode

      • Sardonicuss

        For real…or lets start stoning some NFL players for touching a pig skin on Sundays.

      • Anarchy Pony

        Bartlett 2016!

        • Pickwicknext

          Would vote early. Would vote often.

  • TheBidenator

    Well I cannot wait for Hillary’s campaign to start using this stuff in the general….the right wing has stepped on their collective dicks so hard that if we don’t wind up with 60% support among women in November the Democratic Party needs to close up its fucking doors.

  • Joe Beese

    .I suppose the nearest equivalent would be when Hillary casually praised the Australian approach to gun control – i.e. mandatory government buy-back. With one careless comment, undone was years of careful pretense that their side only wanted (read: thought politically possible) a reasonable middle ground!

    Let both sides have the courage of their respective convictions. They want to execute women who get abortions and you all want no guns for anybody.

    I say: “Abortions for some! Guns for others!”

    • Latverian Diplomat

      Except one person’s guns are a potential threat to everybody else, whereas a women’s choice to have an abortion is no one else’s business.

      • Jonny On Maui

        Wingnuts see that completely opposite…

      • Joe Beese

        While I’m confident that we agree a woman’s right to control her body is more fundamental – and more essential to a free society – than the ability to own guns, that argument doesn’t hold up. From their point of view, while gun ownership will result in murder in a small percentage of cases, abortion access will result in “murder” every time.

        • Latverian Diplomat

          So what? Start from faulty premises (like abortion is “murder”) and you can conclude anything.

          The fact that a stranger’s gun can kill me, whereas a stranger’s abortion has no affect on me, is undeniable, however. I have a compelling self interest in who owns guns, I don’t have a compelling self-interest in other people’s abortions.

          Not all law is about self-interest, of course. But it’s an important difference in this case.

    • Pickwicknext

      Tiny American flags for everyone!

      • Duke

        Is there such a thing as a double flag lapel pin? Triple!

        Real patriots wear label pins.

    • Angela Ruzzo

      People are always talking about the Australian “mandatory buy-back.” This only applied to certain guns at first – primarily military-style automatic rifles and shotguns which had been made illegal – not to all guns. Later it applied to handguns over a certain caliber or below a certain size only. People talk about this as if the Australian government totally disarmed the civilian population, which is not accurate. There are still more than 20 guns per 100 residents in Australia.

      • Joe Beese

        You can’t expect people to defend their freedom against Hillary’s jackbooted thugs with a snubnose .22 revolver!

        • Angela Ruzzo

          Well, a friend of mine was murdered with a .22 revolver. Three shots in the head did the trick. Of course the shooter was apparently standing only a few feet away, which would be inconvenient when confronting jackbooted thugs.

        • Aquaria

          .22 revolver is the gangbanger/Mafia weapon of choice. Shoot someone in the head with a .45, it will go right through the head, and the target stands a chance of survival.

          Shoot someone in the head with a 22, the bullet bounces around inside the cranium and turns the brain to mush, insuring that the target will be dead, dead, dead, no matter what.

      • alwayspunkindrublic

        It has, however, radically reduced the rate of gun violence. Who’d a think it?

    • Jen_Baker_VA

      I don’t want no guns for anybody. I do admire the Aussie plan on that, and more, the result of said plan, but for the most part I really don’t think we ought to take all guns all the time no mid ground on it. Some people really ARE responsible gun owners.
      Course, they really need to step up and stand up to the NRA lunatics. Case in point, VA this week, gun runner buying guns in VA (we are so lax ya’ll) and running them up to Chicago gets into a shootout with the police and people die. No one can explain it, it just happens!

      • Aquaria

        1) It’s y’all, not ya’ll. It’s a contraction of you all, not ya will or ya shall.

        2) My first husband and I lived in a part of the Texas boonies way back when, miles from the nearest neighbor, and even further than that from the nearest sheriff’s office. Since we couldn’t count on help getting to us in a timely manner, we had shotguns for protection, and we kept them loaded, since we had no kids and we weren’t loco or addicts. Well, my husband wasn’t that way at the time.

        The only times either of us actually used any of the guns were to run off coyotes, cougars, deer or javelinas that came around to root in the garbage or the garden. A shot over their heads, and that was usually enough to have them leave for a good long time. I guess we were lucky in never having to deal with any home invaders or trespassers, but we were really isolated. We were off a road off a main road, so we were tough to get to.

  • Spurning Beer

    Hey Robertson and Fischer — get your blovaries off my ovaries!

  • baconzgood

    Baconz feels that, at best, a man has a 49.9% say in an abortion. And that is during a discussion with your pregnant lover behind closed doors.

    • Angela Ruzzo

      As far as I’m concerned no man has more than a 0% say in an abortion. When the day comes that the father can carry the baby for 9 months, give painful birth to it, and nurse it for 2 years as his own breasts, then he can have a say. The single exception would be IF immediately prior to having sex with the mother, they both agreed to try and make a baby.

      • baconzgood

        I said “at best”. If you’re in a relationship and pregnant you don’t think your lovers opinion is valad at all?

        • Jen_Baker_VA

          No. When it was my time, I told my then BF, now hubby, what I intended to do. End of story.
          I had my spawn but it would have been the same had I chosen abortion.

          • Msmlg1979

            Our bodies. Our decisions. When my Dad was diagnosed with terminal cancer, I told him that I know at some point he is going to have to make decisions regarding his body and treatment that might be tough for me to swallow, but that I support his right to choose for himself what happens to his body and his remaining time. It is a basic human right to choose what happens to our body, as long as that choice doesn’t endanger other people, such as choosing not to vaccinate.

        • Angela Ruzzo

          No, not unless you both discussed and approved of having a baby. When my lovers embraced me, they never once stopped to think “Hey, this might make a baby.” They just wanted sex. I wanted sex. We both wanted sex, not a baby. Birth control is not 100% effective, but this wasn’t their problem, it was mine. They never once offered to pay for half the cost of my birth control, or wear a condom as backup, or get a vasectomy.

        • Msmlg1979

          When my lover has a parasite growing inside his body for the better part of a year that changes his body, mind, and life forever, he has 100% say in how he handles that. I have 100% say in what happens to my body. Period. I don’t give any percent of control of my person to anyone because I sleep with them.

      • Msmlg1979

        Thank you!

        • Angela Ruzzo

          I forgot to mention in “when the day comes” that the day includes no paid maternity leave and no affordable day care, on top of earning 25% less than the other gender for doing the same job. Oh yes, and being arrested for breast feeding in public. When this happens to the fathers, then they have a say.

          • Msmlg1979

            When my sister was pregnant with my oldest niece, her teeth literally began to rot out of her head, because of the amount of calcium being leached from her. After my Mom had me, her periods were literally horror shows until menopause. You can imagine, I’m sure. My oldest friend has so little bladder control after having her daughter, she frequently pees on herself. Your internal organs take 7 years or so to go back to their original positions. You are forever changed in ways that cannot be quantified, body and spirit. I could not live with myself if I tried to insert myself into that decision in any way.

          • Angela Ruzzo

            I hear you and share your pain. I’m so sorry to hear about your sister and mother and friend. My sister had the opposite – we both had cramps so bad they were one hair below “Kill me now!”, and after her first baby she never had them again, praise god. This was not enough to motivate me to have a baby, which I personally liken to that scene in the movie “Alien” where the baby alien rips its way out of the man’s stomach. I love babies, but never wanted to have one myself. I once had a gynecologist tell me I could solve my ghastly menstrual disorder by having a baby. I told him “Yeah, and raise and support it for 18 years. Are you offering to take it off my hands? I thought not. I’d rather have gut-wrenching cramps for 30 years.” And so I did have them for 30 years. The first gynecologist my Catholic mother took me to for my horrible cramps when I was 13 was, of course, a Catholic, and he refused to prescribe birth control pills because it would encourage me to sin, and told me cramps were punishment for Eve’s sin. My mother took me to someone else, as even she couldn’t stomach that bullshit.

          • Msmlg1979

            That’s how you know it all comes down to enforcing the curse, and that anti-abortion and anti-birth control is all about punishment. I never wanted children too. And never will. I was on the pill until I turned 35, and now I have an IUD. Yesterday was exactly a year since I got it. I have finally stopped having random daily cramps, and don’t have anything you could really call a period. Isn’t it funny how it’s encouraged to spay and neuter animals for population control, but people can’t make the mental leap to understand human population also has to be controlled for survival of the species, and quality of life? People are so dumb.

          • Angela Ruzzo

            And the dumb people keep reproducing.

            Have you ever considered Depo-Provera injections? I got one once every 3 months and had no periods at all until the 3rd month, when I had minor spotting. After age 35 they wouldn’t give me The Pill because I smoke, so I tried the shots and actually preferred them. I didn’t gain any weight, either.

          • Msmlg1979

            My sister did Depo and gained 40 lbs basically overnight. She also had terrible manic mood swings. Some people love it, some people hate it. Now that my body isn’t constantly trying to reject the IUD, I think it’s gonna be great. I don’t have to worry about anything for 4 more years. The insertion, I will admit, but really painful. I cramped so hard, I could barely breathe. I have the progesterone IUD. I smoke, too. I loved the pill! The pill was fucking excellent.

          • Angela Ruzzo

            That’s too bad about your sister. My experience was so pleasant, one shot every 3 months instead of a pill every evening. I loathe taking pills, I choke on them, even tiny ones.

  • TheBidenator

    Sooooo…..they’re like maybe a step or two away from it being Christian honor killings for ‘bortion, right?

    • Angela Ruzzo

      Ooooh. . . Sharia law. . . I can’t wait. Sarcasm here.

      • Lamashtar
        • Angela Ruzzo

          Such morons. It never worked before, why should it work now? Think of all the missionaries various churches have been sending out to Asia for hundreds of years. Didn’t make much progress, did they?

  • Pugsandcoffee

    “but we aren’t there yet politically and we’re not there maybe even legally or morally, and that may be shame on us in one sense.”

    Well, you’re right about one thing, Mr. Suckalot: Shame on you in one sense.

  • cturner3rd

    I wonder if the “fetus is a person” guys claim their pregnant wives/girlfriends as an extra deduction on their income tax forms.

    • Duke

      Good one… I coulda saved money that way.

  • JMP

    Of course, the forced birthers ignore the fact that they all want to punish women who get abortions, possibly with death since outlawing it as those evil creeps want to would force women who need abortions to go to back alley butchers who may kill them. But let’s just ignore the consequences of their policy and just pretend their views are somehow based in morality even though they is in fact as immoral as you can get!

  • Latverian Diplomat

    “that criminalized the abortion activity, including anybody that voluntarily — not coercion, not life of the mother, not rape or incest, because those would all be defenses”

    More dishonest posturing. Rape and incest are not defenses for murder, especially the “murder” of a third “person”. But those cases are when “fetus == baby” flies out the window for many people.

    Fetus == baby, applied logically and consistently, has so many unpalatable consequences, they have to constantly compromise it in ways that aren’t internally defensible, but purely PR.

  • witsended

    I remember this from last year. Not sure they went ahead with it.

    Doctors in Arizona might soon be required to tell women that abortions can be “reversed.” As the Washington Post reports, the Arizona legislature just passed a bill that is the latest in state-based attempts to ban women from using their own health insurance to pay for abortion. What makes this bill especially Orwellian is this attempt to force doctors to put the stamp of medical authority on the fantastical belief that women en masse are regretting their abortions hours after getting them and are miraculously getting them reversed through heroic interventions by Christian doctors.

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2015/03/26/arizona_abortion_bill_no_abortions_can_t_be_reversed.html?wpsrc=fol_tw

    • proudgrampa

      Oh, for fuck’s sake.
      And there are people who will buy that, hook line and sinker.

    • DoILookAmused2u ?

      Reverse abortions are all the rage among patients who have undergone reverse lobotomies.

      • alwayspunkindrublic

        What with problem have do lobotomies you?

        • eggsacklywright

          A little trepanning would do wonders for Unca Pat.

    • eggsacklywright

      Oh, joy! Now I can get my appendix re-installed.

      • Joe Beese

        Can they restore foreskins?

        (Asking for a friend.)

        • nmmagyar

          Seems like it would just be a skin graft, so it should be possible. I, however, am never letting anyone with a scalpel near my dick again.

        • Tio_Doidinho

          Hell, you can do that with a staple gun and determination. Lots and lots of determination.

          • nmmagyar

            How much beer?

          • Jonny On Maui

            I think I’d want to watch the YouTube video first.

            Then again, maybe not…

          • Tio_Doidinho

            I’m thinking more whiskey shots – at least 4.

    • Treg.Brown

      Do they really hold such contempt for women that they think they will buy this nonsense??

      • Jen_Baker_VA

        Arizona is controlled, currently, by Republicans. That should answer your question.

      • Toomush_Infer

        Yes.

    • Angela Ruzzo

      Well of course they regret it. They regret that they had to drive 300 miles and wait 3 days and sit through hours of bullshit counseling before they could get a legal abortion that their health insurance wouldn’t pay for.

  • proudgrampa

    OK. proudgrampa is gonna get shouty now. Leave the room if you don’t like shouty proudgrampa.

    WHAT THE FUCK!!??!! FUCK ROBERTSON, FUCK ALL THESE PEOPLE. FUCK THEM WITH A BIG FUCKING STICK, I SWEAR TO THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER THESE FUCKERS ARE TOO FUCKING STUPID TO LIVE!!11!!

    These assholes represent my case for retroactive abortion.

    Okay. I’m done.

    • Vecciojohn LLC

      Now who can argue with that?

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ke5Mr5eCF2U

      • Rotisserie Teal

        Rarrah!

    • eggsacklywright

      Hey, unca Pat, I rekemember another old adage: you’re a cretin.

    • Jen_Baker_VA

      You kiddin, I love shouty grandpa ^.^

      • hollydturner

        I totally love shouty grandpa too!

    • Angela Ruzzo

      I think part of Pat’s problem is that he didn’t fuck often enough, and that make him hate people who fucked more than he did.

      • hollydturner

        That’s the best psycho analysis of this man I’ve ever heard. It’s a fact. The more you get the less of an asshole you are. It tends to mellow you out.

        • theCryptofishist

          *sigh*

        • Angela Ruzzo

          There is an alternative reality. People who were great sinners in their youth, and who then find religion and give up fucking, are insistent that everyone else must give it up too.

          It’s just like smokers who quit, and who then become fanatic anti-smokers. They can’t stand to see other people enjoying what they can’t have.

          This is also behind most of the white middle-class angst about poor people who abuse welfare systems. They can’t stand seeing other people get something for free that they have to pay for.

        • MarkM

          It hasn’t mellowed Drumpf out…although perhaps he’s bitter because, deep down, he knows if it wasn’t for his money he wouldn’t be getting any at all.

          • hollydturner

            I would bet the farm that Melatonin or whatever the fuck her name is has to take massive quantities of antidepressants when he’s feelin’ frisky.

          • MarkM

            And that she gets to go on nice shopping sprees the day after.

          • PLAINTOM

            Nah, she just zones out to the tune of a cash register in her head.

          • HanBarbara

            Would you hook up with that?

    • Toomush_Infer

      Okay; now big drink!….

  • Jen_Baker_VA

    I said it yesterday: When they say they don’t want to punish the woman, they are lying. Flat out 100% lying.
    Nice to see they are admitting to that today.

  • Callyson

    if somebody says abortion is murder, then what do you do to somebody who commits murder? It’s a dilemma that people have been wrestling with and I’m certainly not going to get into it

    You don’t want to get into it? Fine–then leave decisions about reproductive health care to the woman and her doctor who are in it, TYVM…

    • alwayspunkindrublic

      Ol’ Pat’s pretty keen on the punishment thing…for sinners (eternal damnation), for societies (hurricanes and floods), for children (a good beating every other day or so makes ’em good Christians). Why would women get a free pass?

    • Toomush_Infer

      You know, if Pat was a real Christion, he’d sell all he has and give it to the poor…

      • bobbert

        hahahahahahahaha

        • OldMayfly

          Sell all you have and give the poor is stupid–it is just that Jesus type of Christianity. The Pat Robertson type Christianity is beg money on TV from gullible people and use the “Operation Blessing” airplanes thus funded to move diamonds out of Africa into your private Virginia vault.

  • beavertank

    This talk of criminalizing abortion doesn’t go far enough. We need to criminalize miscarriages too. And failure to implant. At the moment the sperm and egg unite that mix of gametes is identical to a fully formed infant, and must be protected as if it’s a living breathing human being, so anything that prevents that non-viable mixture of DNA from turning into a human being is clearly murder.

    …basically what I’m saying is we need to implant government tracking devices in all vaginas to ensure these “people” actually become people. For small government, of course.

    • nmmagyar

      Wasn’t there a case a few years back (S.C., IIRC) where a woman was prosecuted for a miscarriage?

      • Jen_Baker_VA

        I believe you are right. There was another in Tenn more recently I believe. They are already punishing women for attempting to have an abortion.

        • eggsacklywright

          Abortion-think is new thought-crime.

          • Toomush_Infer

            Onan!…

    • mailman27

      And don’t get me started on men “spilling their seed” outside a woman’s body. Thousands of little murders.

  • Hutch

    I liked Katha Pollit’s op-ed in the Times this morning on this topic. She says, “Abortion opponents know full well that the public would not abide putting women in prison en masse. Politically, it’s more palatable to portray them as irrational, ignorant and childlike, perhaps even temporarily insane. They are, in any case, incompetent to make their own
    decisions.” Perfect unraveling of the anti-abortion logic.

    Linky: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/02/opinion/campaign-stops/abortion-and-punishment.html?emc=edit_th_20160402&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=59687265

    • DoILookAmused2u ?

      Don’t worry your perty little head about it.

      • Hutch

        Don’t worry. I’m temporarily insane.

        • Mary Sandoras

          I’m permanently insane.

        • Objectifer

          That time of the month, eh? >runs away<

          • DoILookAmused2u ?

            Explains the red dress.

    • Callyson

      Gail Collins also too.

      • Jen_Baker_VA

        Good stuff

      • Gayer Than Thou

        I hope the two of you are happy – I’ve now used up 6 of my 10 free articles, and it’s only the 3rd.

        • Callyson

          (cough) Opening a “New incognito window” in Chrome lets you sneak in ten more (cough)

    • Tio_Doidinho

      Amazing op-ed, thanks.

    • RoyalUglyDude

      Also too this nugget about the “moderate” in the GOP race:

      Mr. Kasich has signed 17 anti-abortion measures into law
      since he took office in 2011. Half the clinics in Ohio in operation at
      the beginning of his tenure have closed or stopped performing abortions.

  • baconzgood

    I’ve noticed many of these anti-choice type are old men. I wonder why?

    • Vecciojohn LLC

      Because we are old and wise and woman is the weaker vessel. Duh.

    • yyyaz

      Their wives told them to find a hobby to get them out of their La-Z-Boys.

  • goonemeritus

    If you’re going to be consistent in your pro-life position the only acceptable penalty is the death penalty. And since there is no statute of limitation on murder and there have been 50 million abortions we need to increase our rope stockpile. Sure executing a ¼ of our population may seem a little severe but if life is sacred what choice do we have.

    • Joe Beese

      On the other hand, it would reduce the unemployment rate.

      • AntiDerpomeme

        And think of how many new prison guard jobs could be created. Win-win.

        • jmhm

          And if you put the prisons in Republican districts before the census, in ten years they could hold the House with just a scant handful of guards voting.

      • goonemeritus

        It might affect dating options for dudes who aren’t underwear models.

    • Angela Ruzzo

      The thing about the death penalty is that the people who approve of it are not the people who pull the switch or push the button or inject the drugs. Everyone who votes for the death penalty should be required to attend and supervise an execution.

      • malsperanza

        I’m sorry to say that many death-penalty supporters would be happy to pull the switch. On execution days at penitentiaries around the country, people bring folding chairs and picnics to hang out and stare at the building at execution time, even though there’s nothing to see.

        • Angela Ruzzo

          It’s because there is nothing to see that they have a picnic. Most “normal” people could not do it with the condemned looking them in the face. Which is, of course, one reason why they masked people they were going to hang in the old days.

    • Toomush_Infer

      Oh, you’re just exaggerating, silly liberal. After all, some of those women have had more than one abortion. We’d only have to execute 25 -30 million, tops…..

    • Querolous

      Executions must be bibbelical. Rope was a precious commodity but rocks were plentiful. Time to buy stock in Slate Rock and Gravel Company.

  • Sardonicuss

    I have to admit, Trump continuing to use the Republican “indoor” voice very much “outdoors” is dragging some unpleasant realities out from under the rocks. It will make for some very interesting campaign montages during the general election.

  • Treg.Brown

    Apologies to anyone downstream who’s already posted this.

    • DoILookAmused2u ?

      Yeah, the woman he raped does not agree.

    • Objectifer

      Apparently it didn’t take, cuz there he is holding a sign.

    • Angela Ruzzo

      If his mother was holding the sign, it would be funny.

    • therblig

      he means that haircut, right? a bit harsh

  • DoILookAmused2u ?

    We’re wastin’ too much time discussin’ stupid things Trump and Republicans say, and next week they’ll say moar stupid stuffs.

    We should be worried about climate change, the cost of education, and discussing issues like breaking up the Wall Street Banks.

    And whether or not we eat Pizza with a fork.

    • Jen_Baker_VA

      We’re liberals, we can simultaneously worry about multiple things at the same time ^.^
      But hell yeah, wtf is 500 bucks per credit hour? Most courses are 3-4 credits. Why not just say “the fucking courses are 1500 each, k.

      • DoILookAmused2u ?

        I was doing a Bernie impersonation. He gets upset at this issue coming up because he believes that his populist economic message would appeal to Republican voters if it weren’t for these pesky social issues that the “establishment” uses to divide folks.

        It couldn’t possibly be that there are folks that really are divided on this issue and Republicans not only pander to them, they have been taking over and passing laws.

        • Jen_Baker_VA

          I think you’re being unfair to Bernie on social issues. He’s made it pretty clear where he stands on all of them. I doubt he would hang abortion rights out to dry just for the possibility of a republican voting for him (he’s a socialist democrat, so that is probably not gonna happen anyway).

          • DoILookAmused2u ?

            Except, he gets irritated and dismissive when they come up because he has a pitch he’s trying to sell, and he believes it cuts across partisan lines, and these things take him off message.

          • Jen_Baker_VA

            Well of course he is irritated. These should not even BE issues in 2016. At least, that is how I take him. He gets irritated because everyone knows where he stands on them and that we still have to tell people that no, a woman owns her body or that no, gay people are allowed to live just like everyone is irritating.
            Candidates are allowed to get irritated when asked dumbdumb things; hence why I stand up for Hillz getting annoyed by the greenpeace ambush.

          • DoILookAmused2u ?

            They are issues in 2016. Most of the states around me have made access to safe abortions impossible.

            It’s more of a 2016 issue than it was a 1980 issue.

            And now my state is talking about “ending abortion tourism” because people are coming here to get abortions from states that have closed down most of the clinics.

            It is what it is.

          • Jen_Baker_VA

            …abortion tourism? That is really a thing that came out of their mouths?????
            Are there charter buses for that? Stops at the biggest yarn ball in the world? Discounts off hotel stays? Do we get bobble head fetuses and mini vacuums in our swag bags?

          • DoILookAmused2u ?

            Yes, some lawmakers here want to make it illegal for folks to come from other states to get abortions here.

            No tour buses. No stopping over to see Billy Tripp’s Mindfield.

            http://www.dennygibson.com/rt66in12/day27/pic02e.jpg

          • nmmagyar

            Aside from the obvious obscenity of it, wouldn’t that law run afoul of the Commerce Clause?

          • DoILookAmused2u ?

            It runs afoul of SCOTUS decisions. Contrary to the pitch, it also opened the door for banning all abortions by the legislature.

          • DoILookAmused2u ?

            By the way, Amendment 1, restricting abortions to state Residents, passed in TN in Nov 2014.

            No abortion tourism here, I guess.

            “What’s really mystifying is how the Yes on 1 campaign premise — “Stop Tennessee from being a destination for out-of-state abortions!” — resonated with any sane, reasonably intelligent voter. As though female tourists are going to start planning the rest of their vacation around their abortion, because it’s just one of the many cool things you can do while you’re here. I can see the billboards now: Come for the abortion, stay for the hot chicken!”

          • Toomush_Infer

            A mad Bernie in the White House is what all the Bernies want. However, if that irritation becomes impotent (as much of what Barry has had to contend with) it’ll start to look pretty silly…

        • Toomush_Infer

          actually, I’m pretty sure it’s really a bunch of grifting pastors trying to round up the collection plate…

      • Toomush_Infer

        Oh oh oh: what about “books” and and and “materials”?…

    • Objectifer

      When are we going to get back to dick measuring?

  • Dr. Krieger IRL

    Great. Pat Robertson’s mobilizing another Robert Dear.

    • TheGrandWaz00

      I got a jury duty summons yesterday. I hope it’s for this guys trial and I get picked.

      • Dr. Krieger IRL

        He deserves a guilty verdict.

        • Toomush_Infer

          Guilty! Guilty!

  • Blank Ron

    Does anyone else find the mere existence of these monsters an affront? Their pious posturing in the name of a religion none of them have ever believed in, their hatred and fear of most of the human race, their casual assumption of moral superiority while advocating the kind of behaviour that turns the stomach of any rational person… and all in the name of a non-existant god whose name they co-opt while ignoring everything he actually said.

    • Angela Ruzzo

      Yes, it is an affront. But they are immune to reason and logic and facts, and you can’t change their minds, and they vote and donate money to politicians, so we have to deal with them whether we want to or not.

    • Toomush_Infer

      This is the raisons de snark….

    • PLAINTOM

      Their imaginary friend always agrees with them. It is so much easier to say hateful crap in the third person since it does require any personal culpability.

  • Vecciojohn LLC

    Here’s another idea. How about an abortion tax? Tax the doctor, the woman, the nurse, the doctor’s accountant, the guard who keeps abortion nuts from murdering the receptionist, etc.

    • Jen_Baker_VA

      It’s already taxed isn’t it? I coulda sworn my last hospital bill had applicable tax added on.
      Or maybe that was just my brain playing tricks on me with the nebulous “fees” plastered all over it.

      • alwayspunkindrublic

        Right? It makes that monthly abortion you so look forward to a little tougher on the wallet.

        • Jen_Baker_VA

          Just for the record, I do NOT look forward to my monthly abortion and I will be very happy when my body gives up the entire thing.
          Interesting side note: I attmpted to have my tubes tied after my first (emergency C section, I was 25). The doc told me that it was against the law until I was over 30 or had at least 2 spawn because I might change my mind being the silly woman that I am. I asked “I don’t have a say in this?” And the doc told me that the state apparently did not think so.
          I had em tied after spawn #2 but I wish I went for removing the entire thing.

          • alwayspunkindrublic

            That’s too bad. The girls I know, getting together for a fun abortion day outing has replaced going to get a massage and a pedi.

          • SessileRaptor

            The best is when the clinic has a BOGO offer going.

          • Jen_Baker_VA

            The outings are fine, but the monthly bleeding that informs me I am still fertile is what I aim to be forever rid of. Coooommeee on menopause; mamma wants a new pair of shoes.

          • Toomush_Infer

            According to Mrs. Toomush, the pause just refers to “men”….

          • Jen_Baker_VA

            Yeah I ain’t worried about that bit either XD hrrrmmm…messy unpleasent and painful process for a week out of every month versus sexual desire…..yeahhhhh I am good with the possibility of losing that.

          • Zyxomma

            Do you like sea vegetables, Jen? Before menopause, as long as I ate three servings of seaweed in the week before a period, the cramps were either mild or nonexistent. It’s delicious with a tahini-ginger dressing, and chunks of cucumber and tomato.

          • Msgr_Moment

            Why not both? They are going to the wrong ‘Plex.

          • alwayspunkindrublic

            Y’all are way ahead out there in N.C..

          • Mimihaha

            I think your doctor lied about that law and you should sue him.

    • theCryptofishist

      That makes it more out of reach for the poors.

    • Aquaria

      I have a better idea. These nuts want birth to be promoted, so tax THEM for all the costs related to birth: prenatal care, pediatric care, child care services, all education costs, food stamps, welfare, and etc.

      Then they’ll finally STFU.

    • Shan

      They tried that here in Kansas a few years ago and couldn’t get it done. IN KANSAS. Seriously.

  • Mary Sandoras

    They love the fetuses, babbies, not so much.

  • TheGrandWaz00

    Killing the unborn–mortal sin. Killing the already born on the other side the world–totally cool.
    http://i.imgur.com/ZCkEvcF.gif

    • yyyaz

      Who are we puny mortals to question the Big, Big, BIG Dog’s mysterious ways?

      • Toomush_Infer

        I thought Monica swallowed….

        • nmmagyar

          Not very well if the dress was still covered in DNA

          • Toomush_Infer

            That liar!…

    • SessileRaptor

      Hey, if they didn’t want to be killed they should have been born white Christians with no natural resources that we want.

      • OldMayfly

        The irony–it burns. But it is true and must be acknowledged.

    • Angela Ruzzo

      We don’t have to go out of our way to kill the already born on the other side of the world. Ten thousand children under 5 years old die every day in Africa from preventable conditions such as starvation and dehydration. But they are brown and black children, so they don’t count.

      • Iam Reading

        We poison the post born with lead. Especially if they are poor and blah

        • MarkM

          Where is all the Rethug outrage over that? Although, let’s face it-if they could figure out a way to keep abortion legal for non-whites, you know they would…

      • malsperanza

        And why wait for starvation when you can bomb them?

        • Angela Ruzzo

          True. Or we can just encourage corporations to do what Nestle did back in the 70’s – dump defective and banned baby formula in third world countries and kill all the babies.

    • MarkM

      Oh fuck, that is awesome…

    • Querolous

      We have always been at war with Madagascar.

  • Fartknocker

    Maybe instead of abortions the real issue is bolt on titties. I’m not talking about conventional sized titties – no – I am talking about those massive titties. I believe a new regulatory scheme for augmented breasts will help refocus the GOP on what’s really important. While I’m at it, we need more songs with cowbells in them, because like titties, that makes me happy.

    • Msgr_Moment

      Wait a second. Are we fer or agin’ em?

      • clever_sobriquet

        I’m on it

    • PubOption

      What would Michele Fiore have to say on this issue?

  • laineypc

    Kudos go to Chris Matthews who asked the question in the first place. It was genius.

    • pstockholm

      They used to call it “journalism”. Hope I got the spelling right, it’s an archaic term these days.

      • Jen_Baker_VA

        Especially coming out of Tweety. I was shocked and awed and went “Hell, there is hope for everyone”

        • nmmagyar

          Tweety does alright sometimes. Not as often as I’d like him to; but, unlike Rachel, he can still get most R’s to come on his show. They are fucking terrified of her.

          • Jen_Baker_VA

            They should be. She eats them with french dressing.

          • nmmagyar

            I love it when some newbie to Congress comes on, looking all smug, and she eviscerates him.

          • Toomush_Infer

            That’s Freedom Dressing, I believe….

          • alwayspunkindrublic

            She used to be able to get Zombie Pat Buchanan on pretty regularly to talk about his love of white supremacy, but yeah, they’ve learned since then.

          • nmmagyar

            She explained pretty clearly why she didn’t want him back on – it was over his comments on either Obergefell or Windsor.

          • Biff52

            I emailed her and said whenever he was on, I turned off the TV. Not long after, he disappeared. You’re welcome. Obviously I wasn’t the only one bitching, as one time she introduced him and immediately said “what? he’s nice!” Uh, NO, Rachel, he is NOT nice. Just because he was nice to you does not make him nice. At all.

          • Villago Delenda Est

            The correct title is Standartenführer Pat Buchanan.

    • DoILookAmused2u ?

      Meh, he followed a formulaic response/question format and let a lot of errors slide.

      The only thing positive I can say about it is that he got Trump to answer a question.

      • Toomush_Infer

        Every once in a while, a Tweety Bird finds a worm…

        • alwayspunkindrublic

          He did an epic slapdown of Reince Priebus a few years back. He’s been coasting on that ever since.

  • Toomush_Infer

    Would it be illegal to euthanize Pat Robertson, or would that by like murdering the Undead?* (*with those powerful tv votes and all, of course)….

    • alwayspunkindrublic

      Does an oak stake through the heart qualify as “euthanizing”?

      • Rotisserie Teal

        “through the heart”

        Assuming facts not in evidence.

  • Msgr_Moment

    Masturbation is still legal, right? Asking for a friend.

    • Toomush_Infer

      If you save and re-use the sperm, it should be o.k….

    • Biff52

      35 cents, 35 cents, over a lifetime, that adds up!

      • Msgr_Moment

        Sounds like just a slap on the wrist.

    • nmmagyar

      Not according to the Bible, which will soon be the law of the land. After all teen aged boys (and a good portion of the girls) are eliminated, abortion won’t be much of an issue. Even less by the end of the current generation

      • cleos_mom

        That passage in the Bible is less about masturbation than a preview of Every Sperm Is Sacred.

    • Toomush_Infer

      Onan!…

      • PubOption

        The barbarian!

    • Master Contrail Program

      Do it too much and he’ll go blind, thereby making optometrists accessories to his heinous crimes. Hope your friend has socked away some of that big money they’ve made working part time from home. Legal representation isn’t cheap. May want to hold off on that McClaren F1 purchase.

    • Malmborg Implano

      Alone, in the privacy of your own home, you should be fine. If you start bringing webcams or nonconsensual witnesses into the mix, I wouldn’t be too complacent about it.

    • limberrat

      Well according to my old HS pastor; every time you do so, God kills a kitten.

  • Toomush_Infer

    Oh, Pat!…Pat! I got one! What about those unborn Muslim babies??? Would that still be illegal?…

    • MarkM

      Pat Robertson would be in there with a bent coathanger quicker than you could say “Crusade!”

  • hollydturner

    I’ve had this twisted fantasy and if I tell you you have to promise not to laugh or judge me harshly….I want Pat Robertson to spank me and call me a whore. I TOLD you it was twisted.

    • MarkM

      I think we need to stage an intervention here….

      • Jonny On Maui

        no line cuts…

        • MarkM

          That’s right…and I was first. Remember that.

      • hollydturner

        I’m just off my meds. Not to worry.

    • NoGoodnik

      I have a Pat Robertson mask… I’m just sayin’

      • MarkM

        Now THAT’s sick…

        • NoGoodnik

          They call me the camel because I’m jus’ humpin’ to please. I’m an altruistic pervert. Really it is not for me… I’m willing to help a fellow Wonketteer out of a pickle, if you will.

          • MarkM

            “Altruistic Perverts” will be the name of my alt-country band.

          • NoGoodnik

            Sure, you say that now and then some other name comes along.

          • Toomush_Infer

            Into a pickle, more like…

          • MarkM

            “On to” a pickle?

          • NoGoodnik

            Story of my life really.

          • chicken thief

            Or ‘on to’ a pickle…

            I should have read down first…

      • hollydturner

        Hmmm..maybe…

        • NoGoodnik

          Best thing that’s happened to me all day… heck all week, even.

          • hollydturner

            Golly! Full disclosure – me too.

    • Jonny On Maui

      I think you need to go deep into yourself and tell us all about it in great detail.

      Quick check, yup, bunk room filled…

      • hollydturner

        Give me a second to swallow the meds I forgot to take last week. I go to strange and dark places when I don’t take them as recommended by the nice doctors at the lovely hospital where I have to go sometimes.

        • Jonny On Maui

          Maybe we see the same doc? Usually when they wheel me in to see him I’m wearing one of those jackets where I just hug myself and hug myself…

          • hollydturner

            Maybe we do! I wear that jacket occasionally. It’s got a calming quality I can’t describe.

    • Msmlg1979

      I have the same thing with Bill Clinton.

      • hollydturner

        I totally understand your Bill and spanking fantasy. Me, on the other hand…I’m off my meds and the voices are telling me to do strange things again.

        • MarkM

          Can you tell me what meds you are on? I want to avoid them like the plague…

          • Jonny On Maui

            What he said…

        • Msmlg1979

          In that case, come on over! Let’s shake things up. Let’s have an adventure.

          • MarkM

            Can I join you? I want to try out my new video camera.

          • Msmlg1979

            I have a strong feeling you would not want to be in the vicinity of me and hollyd’s adventures while she’s off the meds. It’s not about your male gaze, SIR! ;)

          • MarkM

            I miss all the fun stuff…:-(

          • Jonny On Maui

            leave your camera…

          • MarkM

            No way…

          • Msmlg1979

            Awwwwww!

          • hollydturner

            DId you call Bill?

          • Msmlg1979

            Speed dial #1!

      • MarkM

        There is something about Bill…that mellifluous voice…the lip bite…

        • Msmlg1979

          Are my daddy issues showing again?

          • MarkM

            A little bit-but I’m pretty sure no one else noticed…

          • Msmlg1979

            I probably don’t hide it too well. Being coy is not my strong point.

          • MarkM

            Anything I said to that would be wrong, wouldn’t it?

          • Msmlg1979

            When in doubt, compliment.

          • MarkM

            The best part of beauty is that which no picture can express.

          • Msmlg1979

            :) Very nice!

          • MarkM

            Paradoxically, I reach undreamed of heights when digging myself out of holes…:-)

          • Msmlg1979

            Smooth move going for an inner beauty theme after our discussion last night. Also too, you don’t know what I look like. ;)

          • MarkM

            Never let it be said that I can’t learn a lesson after a few brisk smacks on the noggin. As to what you look like I’ll take it on faith ;-)

          • Msmlg1979

            I might (allegedly) occasionally need a smack upside the head, too. Too bad about your faith. I’m terribly hideous, and a man, also too. ;)

          • MarkM

            Nooooooo!!!

          • Msmlg1979

            One eye.
            Soooooo hairy! Soooooo smelly! ;P

          • MarkM

            Please stop! (sob) Leave with a few shreds of dignity…how can you be soooo cruel?!

          • Msmlg1979

            Dignity? Where was my dignity when I got drunk on moonshine, and fought that bear that took my eye??

          • MarkM

            See? See what happens when you go on cheese picnics in the deep, dark woods all by yourself?

          • Msmlg1979

            After yesterday, I’m afraid you would save the cheese, and leave me all alone to fight the bear!

          • MarkM

            That would depend on whether you were a hot babe or a hairy, smelly one-eyed guy…

          • Msmlg1979

            I think you know I’m not a smelly one-eyed bear-fightin’ hairy old dude, don’t you?

          • MarkM

            Of course…but the banter amuses me.

          • Msmlg1979

            In that case, let me tell you about my musty, old dude-scent, like mothballs and despair…

          • MarkM

            Really? That’s nas…oh wait. You’re just funnin’ me again, aren’t you?

          • Msmlg1979

            Do I smell like mothballs and despair, or lemon, vanilla, and girl? You don’t know!

          • MarkM
          • Msmlg1979

            Poor drunk kitty, has he been flirting with a one-eyed, smelly boy kitty, or a lady-kitty with two whole eye?

          • MarkM

            You are incorrigible :-)

          • Msmlg1979

            You have no idea, Mr. MarkM!

          • chicken thief

            Old Spice libelz!!!1!

          • Msmlg1979

            That would be an improvement!

        • Msmlg1979

          He’s a sick, dirty, perv!! Yessssss!

    • Master Contrail Program

      The 700 Flog?

    • Rufus T. Firefly

      I could always wear a Pat Robertson mask. Would that do it for ya?

      • hollydturner

        I’d have to see the mask first.

    • cleos_mom

      As many a working girl could tell you, it’s more likely he’d want you to spank him.

      • hollydturner

        And I would be more than happy to oblige him. As Angela so wonderfully and succinctly pointed out the dude probably has one of the more twisted minds we would never want to run across. Anyone that vomits the bile that this guy does has serious psycho sexual hangups.

  • LewinskyReversal

    If Republicans don’t want to say that women who have abortions should be prosecuted as murderers (and they don’t, because it would alienate too many voters), then they will have to recant their claim that abortion is murder.

    For if abortion were murder (it isn’t), then women who have abortions would in effect be hiring hit men (the doctors), and should be charged with first-degree homicide.

    Thus are Republicans trapped by an ancient logical paradigm called Modus Tollens. Which says, if Q follows from P, and if you want to deny Q, that forces you to deny P.

    • nmmagyar

      What kind of silly person would expect a Repubicans to allow logic to enter into their arguments?

      • wordheart

        Actually, it’s fairly easy to cross-examine a pro-lifer on this point. You just say, “So, do you think women who have abortions should be prosecuted for murder?” If they say No, you then say, “So you don’t think abortion is murder?” At the very least you will see them squirm — always fun.

  • Bill Slider

    Clearly, we need to biblesplain the importance of containing the explosion that led to these unnecessary murders. When a pregnancy is terminated, the root criminal is neither the doctor nor the pregant woman. Pop-a-Dick caused it. He is the criminal. Put him in jail. The pregnant woman clearly is the victim. The doctor clearly is collecting evidence to be handed over to the prosecutor who will present it to the Court as Exhibit A. A sperm sample from the accused, obtained live in the courtroom, so as to leave no doubt as to the source, becomes Exhibit B.

    • Villago Delenda Est

      The Donald clearly and decisively, with one word, eliminated this option.

    • Malmborg Implano

      I cordially invite you to read this excerpt from the Freedom From Religion Foundation’s “Why Women Need Freedom From Religion”:

      Organized religion always has been and remains the greatest enemy of women’s rights. In the Christian-dominated Western world, two bible verses in particular sum up the position of women:

      “I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.” By this third chapter of Genesis, woman lost her rights, her standing—even her identity, and motherhood became a God-inflicted curse degrading her status in the world.

      In the New Testament, the bible decrees:

      “Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” 1 Tim. 2:11-14

      One bible verse alone, “Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live” is responsible for the death of tens of thousands, if not millions, of women. Do women and those who care about them need further evidence of the great harm of Christianity, predicated as it has been on these and similar teachings about women?

      Church writer Tertullian said “each of you women is an Eve . . . You are the gate of Hell, you are the temptress of the forbidden tree; you are the first deserter of the divine law.”

      Martin Luther decreed: “If a woman grows weary and at last dies from childbearing, it matters not. Let her die from bearing, she is there to do it.”

      Such teachings prompted 19th-century feminist Elizabeth Cady Stanton to write: “The Bible and the Church have been the greatest stumbling blocks in the way of woman’s emancipation.”

      • Lamashtar

        If a woman’s only value is breeding, then rape is a public service. :(

  • Mimihaha

    Fucking hypocrites. Either it is murder and the person/people who planned it are at least as guilty as the doctor/clinic staff, or it is not really murder.

  • Villago Delenda Est

    Four words:

    SLUTS MUST BE PUNISHED!

    • guppy06

      With a spanking?

      • OldMayfly

        Metaphorically, maybe. So the “righteous dudes” can enjoy it.

  • CripesAmighty

    Help me out here: in the midst of all this foggy fire-and-brimstone folderol and murky moralizing, exactly what is the ecclesiastical/theological underpinning for all this nonsense other than some nebulous, ‘ew, sex!’?

    • Iam Reading

      Always what this is about

    • Numbers 5:11-31…oh wait, that’s where Yahweh gave a magic recipe for an instant miscarriage potion, oops. Okay, there’s Exodus 21:22-25 where Yahweh talks about how much someone should be punished for inducing a miscarriage. Oh wait, they just get a fine.

      • CripesAmighty

        Thanks, all, that’s what I thought: ‘And, yea, verily did Balderdash beget Bullshit…”

    • r m reddicks

      Two Corinthians. They walked into a bar and hashed it all out.

      • OldMayfly

        A Cuban, a Canadian, and an American walked into a bar and the bartender said, “What will you have, Mr. Cruz?”

    • limberrat

      That missing verse in Acts “Yeah verily, Jesus stopped partway while ascending to Heaven and told his disciples that they should preach abstinence only education and treat women who are pregnant like sluts and criminals. Then he continued his ascension into Heaven.”

    • limberrat

      Seriously tho, there’s a lot of Paul’s teachings, who btw is a terrible example for marriage or sex advice (since he did neither), that can be interpreted that way.

      • OldMayfly

        Paul and Johnathan should have just been cool with their relationship and left Paul’s opinions on women out of it. But their contemporary Roman culture prevailed.

    • jmk

      Every asshole fundie will tell you that it’s obvious that gawd hates abortion because of that one line in Jeremiah where it says he knew you before you were born.

      • CripesAmighty

        Really? Well he sure could have saved us all a lot of bother if he’d just been upfront and said, ‘you’re fucked’…

    • OldMayfly

      If you go by the Old Testament, Eve (and “her daughters”) are forever condemned to the suffering of childbirth because of that apple incident. Talk about holding a grudge! Actually when anesthesia for childbirth was first introduced many (male) politicians and physicians were against it–because of the Biblical verse that paired childbirth and suffering. Queen Victoria put a stop to that. (She’s not my favorite person in history, but she wasn’t going to suffer if she didn’t have to, and that paved the way for her female subjects.)

      • CripesAmighty

        So is that the part of the historical record chronicling talking snakes or chatty foliage?

        • OldMayfly

          Yes. And the old Sonny and Cher Show did a great bit on it years ago. Imagine them as Adam and Eve. I’m having a senior moment and can’t remember the name of the Southerner who played the serpent. He had a cop show on television before he was in movies. Nice-looking guy with a great sense of humor.

  • Iam Reading

    Hey Dok, the only good news here is that Bryan, with a y, Fischer isn’t capping up Boise with his crazy anymore.

    • doktorzoom

      Believe me, when he went national I had very mixed feelings. Good riddance and oh, no, they gave him a bigger microphone.

  • DoILookAmused2u ?

    In 2015, Tennessee lawmakers passed Amendment 1, a law denying women a guaranteed right to abortion under the state constitution. Since then, the state Legislature has introduced
    a number of new bills and passed at least two laws designed to severely
    limit the ability of Tennessee women to access abortion. Currently, a
    Tennessee woman named Anna Yocca faces charges for attempted murder
    under the state’s “fetal homicide law,” which can be used to prosecute
    women for any actions that could harm a fetus. Police arrested Yocca
    after she was admitted to the hospital with severe bleeding following a
    failed self-induced abortion using a coat hanger.

  • DoILookAmused2u ?

    Today, the law is still going after women for abortion. In Indiana last year, Purvi Patel was sentenced to 20 years in prison for what the prosecutor charged was an illegal self-abortion. In Tennessee, Anna Yocca was charged with attempted murder for trying to end her pregnancy with a coat hanger. In Pennsylvania, Jennifer Whalen went to jail for giving her daughter abortion pills.

    • Malmborg Implano

      Thank you for reminding us we’re not talking hypotheticals here. Abortion, miscarriage and life-threatening conditions associated with pregnancy and childbirth are actually quite commonplace, unlike the fluffy pink world where most Americans imagine that babies come from.

    • OldMayfly

      Exactly right. And Jennifer Whalen was the sole support of her high-school aged daughter. I have no idea who cared for the daughter after Whalen’s arrest. I emailed the prison & the newspaper trying to get contact info so maybe I could contribute. Never heard back.

  • MyLovelyNose

    I really detest Jay Sekulow, who has a drive-time AM radio show here in Missouri. He drools over “tiny defenseless Israel,” “America’s only friend,” “this jewel of democracy,” in breathless sweaty-reporter-with-loosened-necktie-amid-the-battle style.

    The crowning irony of this is the demagogue braying out one side of his mouth about abortion-is-murder, while at the same time singing hymns of praise to a country with some of the most LIBERAL abortion policies in the world. To wit: abortions are legal, and young, hot, nubile, sexyslutty Israeli women get to spread it as often as they want, because for her abortions are FREE.

    Double irony in that Israel has a population problem and could actually use some of those babies.

    • Lamashtar

      ::cough:: The gentile population in Israel is on the increase. And lots of gentiles would love to move there.

      • Jonny On Maui

        I think we should send all rapture aspirants there.

        But then, I’d like them to go anywhere but here…

      • Yeah, Israel’s “population problem” is nothing but “them damn Ayrabs is outbreeding us!”

  • Master Contrail Program

    If He moves in mysterious ways, and it is not our lot to truly know why, who/what is to say that abortion doctors are not His instruments? I could barely make my fingers type such nonsense, yet it doesn’t sound much sillier than any other theological doctrine.

  • Walter Wellstone

    Why don’t these assholes all move to Saudi Arabia? That shithole of a country has the social-legal dynamic they’re so desperately looking to impose here. I say go, motherfuckers, go!

    • RobKanC

      Probably something to do with the fact they would be stoned to death for being infidels.

      • Skadi

        And they want to be the ones doing the stoning–it’s not fair if the other guy gets to do it!

        • RobKanC

          They should make a movie about it. Mooselimbs v Infidels. Would totally watch it.

          • bozilingus

            This movie already exists: Aliens vs. Predators
            The Muslims are the Aliens and the Xtians are the Predators. Nobody wins in the end.

          • MediumBarda

            I never thought I would say this, but, I’m offended for both Aliens and Predators.

          • Jonny On Maui

            So #1 and #2 are like the crusades?

          • RobKanC

            Ummm. Don’t know about that. It’s two illegal immigrant groups going against each other while innocent ‘murican people die as collateral damage. It’s more a conservative wet dream than anything else.

      • Walter Wellstone

        Don’t tell them. We would want them to find out when they get there.

    • Master Contrail Program

      No Saudi Arabia’s dynamic is that of heathens. There is after all, only one truly righteous dude/road to Oz.

  • Master Contrail Program

    The 700 Cudgel, err Club still going strong in 2016. Truly, only the good die young.

    • Tokays_don’t_blink

      I’m convinced that Pat Robertson is either a lich or draugr.

  • Malmborg Implano

    What about women who do DIY abortions and non-doctor people who do them? Don’t they deserve to go before the firing squad injection chamber along with the abortionologists?

    • Skadi

      They already do, near as nevermind. Women have been prosecuted for using pills, or for being desperate enough to try a coathanger. See posts below…

      • OldMayfly

        A Pennsylvania woman is in jail now for helping her teen daughter by buying pills (that would be perfectly legal in many states) on-line.

  • Mavenmaven

    We should punish the men too, who support women having abortions. That’s why we want the NRA to be on the Supreme Court, so that when the time comes we can just kill liberals and everyone who disagrees with us.

    • Thorn Spike

      And we should punish the manufacturers of the condoms the men didn’t use, and the manufacturers of the hangers the women…as I’ve commented elsewhere, they really haven’t thought this through very well, have they? But they rarely do.

      • Lamashtar

        A Democratic politician once attached an amendment to an anti-abortion bill–the amendment would have treated sperm as “persons”.

        I respect that level of trolling.

        • MediumBarda

          They move around, they must be people!!

  • Paperless Tiger

    … then they came for the women, and I wasn’t a woman, so I said noth- … hey, wait! Hold up, did you say women? Unh uh. No way! Not gonna happen. Fuck you!

  • Think_Think_Think

    1) Placing a restriction on abortion will never prevent unwanted pregnancies; a large percentage of women (currently, 43% in the U.S.) will always seek terminating unwanted pregnancies.

    2) Quit telling women what to do. Quit blaming women. Quit shoving religion upon people.

    • RobKanC

      But but women are so fragile and don’t know what they are doing. We have to show them what’s right.

      • OldMayfly

        Love your snark.

        • RobKanC

          Awwww. Thank you. Sadly, this kind of reasoning is a norm in today’s political discourse.

    • MarkM

      Face the fact that if you want to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies, you have to EDUCATE people! Ignorance makes the problem worse, and “abstinence” programs are a fucking joke. Look at that worthless twit Barstool for Christ’s sake! Apparently she found out abstinence lecture tours are a great way to get laid!

      • Damian L

        Or ,just get it through your thick skull that what another person chooses to do concerning their pregnancy is their decision and has no bearing or effect on your life whatsoever so shut the fuck up about it.(Not directed at you personally).

  • DoILookAmused2u ?

    Texas forces woman to give birth to still-born baby

    HORRIFIC

    03.31.16 12:00 AM ET

    Texas Forced This Woman to Deliver a Stillborn Baby

    Twenty weeks into Taylor Mahaffey’s pregnancy, her baby started emerging from
    her womb, with doctors powerless to stop it—and because of Texas’s
    fetal-pain law, all the hospital could do was send her home.

    Daniel and Taylor Mahaffey were 20 weeks pregnant and desperately wanted their
    child, but when doctors informed them a complication meant the fetus
    had no chance of survival, they just wanted their baby’s suffering to
    end. Yet because of their state’s “fetal pain” law, the married Texans
    say they were forced to endure a stillbirth and wait as their baby
    slowly died in utero.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/31/texas-forced-this-woman-to-deliver-a-stillborn-baby.html

    • lroom

      Good grief. That’s horrific.

      • DoILookAmused2u ?

        It went on for 4 days. There are worse stories of others in that article too.

        • jmk

          Horrific.

          They’re just lucky it didn’t go septic like Savita Halappanavar’s. These fucknuts are perfectly happy to let women die for their ideology.

          • Biff52

            It’s godswill.

          • jmk

            Swill is right.

      • MarkM

        I feel sick. Snark is amusing, but so frivolous sometimes. These people are fucking barbarians.

    • YayConspiracy

      Disgusting.

    • Walter Wellstone

      Very fucking Christian of them.

    • dshwa

      This. This needs to be plastered on every “pro-life” group’s web page, on any Twitter feed or FB page from anyone supporting those positions. The world isn’t black and white simple, and their zealotry has real life shitty consequences for people.

  • malsperanza

    I get how, if abortion is murder, then life of the mother is a plausible defense. It’s sort of like Stand Your Ground: “I had to abort the baby, your honor, because it was assaulting me.”

    But rape and incest surely can’t be justifications for murder of an innocent bystander.

    In short: fuck these fucking hypocrites.

    I also detest the quisling, skulking line that women who have an abortion are traumatized, that it is a hard hard decision to make, and haunts them forevermore.

    Which is why I make a point of saying as publicly as I can, whenever the opportunity arises, that when I had an abortion I thanked the doctor and went to the beach for the afternoon. Went back to work the next day and never thought twice about it afterward.

    And yeah, having a wisdom tooth out was more difficult, painful, and stressful.

    • Msmlg1979

      If an abortion traumatizes a woman it is because she has bought into the shame and guilt thrown in her face by the same assholes who claim they are trying to protect her from guilt and shame. Hypocritical fuckers.

    • OldMayfly

      “quisling!” Wow, malsperanza! You are either a WW II history scholar or my contemparary. I, too, remember who Quisling was.

      • malsperanza

        I like words.

  • akryan

    I will defend Trump this one time. He was pushed on this issue in way that none of the other candidates were. All of them should have been pushed on the logical conclusion that women must be prosecuted if abortion was truly to be treated as murder. All of them should have had to face that. Cruz should have been pushed hardest of all since the co-chair of his pro-life outreach group has actually written that women should be prosecuted for having an abortion.

    • DoILookAmused2u ?

      Troy Newman? Troy Newman organizes stalking and praises people who murder doctors and prays for doctors’ deaths.

      • OldMayfly

        I think that’s the point.

    • Walter Wellstone

      Hillary’s people need to start curating Troy Newman’s greatest hits into some kickass 30-second ads even if Cruz doesn’t win the nomination. It’ll work against Drumpf just as well.

    • Laura

      I actually find it hilarious that Rubio, Carson Cruz etc want to force pregnant rape victims to carry to term, then say that they don’t want punish women. . .ok

  • kindness

    It’s sex that doesn’t make babies that these crazy fundies hate. They’ll illegalize all birth control & tell you what positions ONLY SOME OF YOU will be allowed to use.

    • Jonny On Maui

      Female control of her body completely destroys the regal male control of their bloodline. Very insecure males have this issue.

      • Cindyinencinitas

        It makes sense in a world where resources are so scarce that a man might have a big problem with having to scrape together food for a child that isn’t his and would therefore be very interested in what’s going on in the little woman’s cooter but I think that mentality may be a little outdated now.

        • Jonny On Maui

          “I think that mentality may be a little outdated now.”

          I think you’re giving males a little more credit than they deserve, just my $0.02

    • HanBarbara

      I believe that the other part is that they just don’t understand why every woman. Isn’t thrilled to find out she’s having a baby. Hence the lectures and forced ultrasounds. “Damn it, if we just explained it enough times, she’d understand and bond with that ‘little babbie'”.

  • edith prickly

    The forced-birther (I refuse to call them pro-life) movement needs to be confronted about this at every opportunity. Doctors don’t perform abortions unless they are asked to – why would you charge the doctor without charging the patient too? Tell the stories about wingut abortion laws forcing women to give birth to stillborn children and having to report miscarriages to the police. Take the moral high ground away from them. Their true agenda is showing – shove it right into the spotlight and make them admit what they’re arguing for is charging women who have abortions with murder. Drumpf actually did the pro-choice movement a big favour by shooting off his mouth – we need to run with it.

    • Tokays_don’t_blink

      “Pro-life”=pro-death. After all, getting born comes with an automatic death penalty.

      Also too, do forced birthers not consider that outlawing abortion will only hasten the demographic shift of which they live in mortal terror? Or do they genuinely think that America will magically get a bumper crop of white Christian babies?

      • jmhm

        OK, you clearly haven’t been watching TLC. One of the right out loud reasons the “quiverfull” movement the Duggars belong to are pushing out all those babies is to form their god’s army.

        • OldMayfly

          True. The Fundies plan to take over from Rationalists by out-populating us. But often their kids break free and go on to lead happier lives.

          • edith prickly

            I keep hoping a gang of the younger ones (that don’t recognize Dim Bob or Michelle as their parents because they’ve been entirely raised by siblings) will lead an anti-Quiverfull revolution.

        • HanBarbara

          Unlike Ma Duggar, most American women don’t want to risk having their uterus fall out on the floor every time they cough.

          • Cindyinencinitas

            There is no way in the world that woman can sneeze without having to change her underwear. No way.

          • Shan

            Not unless she does Kegels all day. And even then…

        • edith prickly

          Yes, but what they’re actually doing is raising a gang of clueless twits who have to earn a living pimping themselves on TV, because they’re completely unfit to do anything useful. Threaten them with full-frontal hugs and they’ll run screaming.

          • jmhm

            Personally I think it’s no coincidence that the Duggars are all kinds of tied in to Walmart, which has a vested interest in conservative-voting authoritarians with no formal education who can’t afford to get fired.

        • Tokays_don’t_blink

          Nah, I stayed away from that show but I’m familiar enough with the family to be skeeved by them. Isn’t the quiverfull movement is one of the groups with a boner for the apocalypse?

          • jmhm

            Yeah, as soon as the whole world becomes them-flavor christians Christ something something Israel something and then everyone’s up in the clouds laughing at the torments of the damned.

    • chicken thief

      “Doctors don’t perform abortions unless they are asked to…”

      And some money changing hands also too…

  • YayConspiracy

    Party of personal responsibility has trouble owning their positions.

  • Robyn Ryan

    Women have a Constitutional right not to be made or kept pregnant.

    • Jonny On Maui

      Women have a Constitutional human right not to be made or kept pregnant.

      Goes a little deeper…

  • VirginiaLady

    Abortion is legal in America. Get over it you old white pigs! Talkin’to you here Patsy.

  • “Safe, legal, and rare.”

    – Wall Street Dems
    ~

    • bookish

      As a corollary, I would also like to see safe, legal, universally available contraception, distributed free if need be. Plus people with the political will to endorse it and the good sense to use it.

      • OldMayfly

        Yes, indeed, contraception and realistic sex ed. That and government support for families is why there is such a low rate of abortion in most western European countries.

        • Jonny On Maui

          I’d like to take it one step further. We are taught to look at our bodies with shame, both male and female. I’m not going to argue who has it worse, spectrum, both sides, peaks in different places.
          We need to change that. We need to understand the machine that carries us around. It is a natural thing and the only time shame should attach is if you abuse someone elses. Procreation, elimination, these are natural functions. Why should shame attach? Let’s really teach biology!

          To really see someone’s sex organ you need to look them in the eyes. Everything else is playing with nerve endings…

          • OldMayfly

            You have an excellent essay in the making, Jonny On Maui. It would be very good if you have the time to expand on your comment.

          • Jonny On Maui

            Thank you, I’m putting it down as that’s as close to ‘creepy uncle’ as I wish to get…

        • dshwa

          Which is why I don’t call them “pro-life” and use “forced birth” instead. If life was really sacred they’d be embracing any policy to protect it. Instead they oppose all of them.

      • NoGoodnik

        Like Colorado did?

  • thecrud

    This is why you dont allow terrorist that call themselves churches.
    Passing out anti abortion literature lie it is candy saying such none sense.
    The court decided and all these things violate rights and need to be prosecuted
    Before they entice more nut jobs to murderous terrorism.

    And politicians win and a nod endorsing these right violations need long prison sentences even one word on record against settled law.

  • Enfant Terrible

    No one really believes that abortion is murder, except crazy people.

    • jmk

      It’s always fun to ask the “life begins at conception” folks what they’d do if they were in a lab and it was on fire and they could save either a container with 100 embryos in it or one live baby.

      In some cases, that’s the first time it dawns on them that they really don’t believe that it’s a baby from conception.

      • OldMayfly

        Wish I could rec your comment more than once.

      • HanBarbara

        And, if life begins at conception, why wouldn’t children conceived in the U.S. be citizens? Instead of Anchor Babies, modern Know Nothings could rage about Anchor Fetuses.

  • I really don’t understand the pro-life position here. (Well, I understand it, I don’t understand the mental gymnastics they use around the issue.) I posted something about Drumpf’s abortion comments on my Facebook, and it brought that one pro-life friend I have out of the woodwork, and she spent a day tying herself in knots trying to explain to me how, in a world where abortion is banned and fetuses are people, a mother seeking an abortion wouldn’t at least be guilty of hiring a hit man, conspiring to commit, something. Especially here in the US, where we fucking love to punish people. She basically said that women are victims because our society accepts and embraces abortion and confuses them (because that’s not condescending at all) but if we ban abortion, we wouldn’t be a society that accepts abortion (if we even are now) and “no abortions for anyone” isn’t confusing, so wouldn’t women then not be confused victims and therefore be culpable? I don’t get it.

    • MizzMazz

      That’s the other thing they just won’t come out and say: Women don’t have the same capacity for thought and agency like men do, so we’re either misled or coerced. I’ve had abortions (back when it was not too difficult to find a healthcare provider)and it was always my decision and mine alone. The men involved were told, and they agreed, often with a look of relief on their faces. Men don’t want unplanned pregnancies anymore than women do, and it’s rare for a man to try and change a woman’s mind, but you know what? It’s still HER decision! Her body, her life, her decision.

    • Ducksworthy

      A good Jesuit trained Canon Lawyer could explain to your pro-life friend how to slice right through those bothersome knots with the Church’s patented deus ex machina magical logic.

  • Incoming Ham

    An eye for an eye makes the whole world..oh fuck it.

  • Me not sure

    In the years before Roe v. Wade women were not prosecuted in any state for having an abortion. The laws always targeted the provider whether it was a doctor or not. The end result was that the most accessible form of abortion was also the most dangerous, self-abortion. When the Constitution was written abortion was legal in every part of the US up until “quickening”, which was roughly understood to mean viability as it existed in those days of primitive medicine. (The death rates of women going full term were very high.)This came as a result of the acceptance of the British common law standard by the early states. The first state to enter the union with a law banning abortions outright was Texas, as a result of the influence of the Catholic Church on Mexico’s laws. Other states then began to follow Texas’ lead on the urging of the AMA , which had decided that live birth had become safer, as safe as an early abortion, with the advent of knowledge about antiseptsis and prevention of infections.

    • yyyaz

      Actually, the AMA was still an embryonic doctors’ union. There was still a great deal of skepticism in the general population about whether medical doctors were good for anything other than amputations or emergency surgery, neither of which included anesthesia — other than booze. The AMA decided that a quick way to expand its client base was by attacking the centuries-old institution of midwifery. Of course, midwives rarely had any education other than their practical experience, no organization to protect their interests and no reason for either. The AMA lobbied long and hard at the state and federal levels to regulate midwifery out of existence. You have probably guessed by now that in addition to delivering babbies, midwives had tons of experience with providing abortions as well. The AMA knuckled under to agree to not perform abortions when it was a necessary compromise to achieve its legislative agenda.

      • yyyaz

        Disclaimer: This non-comment is intended only to amplify Me Not Sure’s excellent non-comment.

      • Me not sure

        Eventually the practice of early term abortions again became so safe that MDs got back on board. By that time midwifery was conveniently looked upon as old fashioned by the public at large, sadly. Funny how that worked out, really.

        • Jonny On Maui

          The second purging of the witches…

          • Me not sure

            Are there newts on Maui?

          • Jonny On Maui

            There’s more weird stuff here than you can shake a gaint walking stick at.

            I can’t figure out a way to put those words together any better, needz moar coughfee…

          • Me not sure

            Go. Do. Be.

      • Dr. Krieger IRL

        “Midwife? Just how many wives does this guy have? Sounds like al-Qaeda.”

      • NoGoodnik

        Abbott’s theory of professions.

  • Biel_ze_Bubba

    For all the slagging of Trump that we do, you have to enjoy the way he (being a filter-free not-politician) says exactly what the regressive right-wing nuts are all thinking, without code words or dog whistles or, in this case, without flat-out lies about their ultimate intentions. We’re not supposed to know what sort of theocratic shit-hole they intend to make out of the US.

    • Jonny On Maui

      He did just rip the curtain right off the rings, gotta give him that…

  • JParkerSD46

    Is it just me or does anyone else notice that all the screechy rage-nuts quoted in this post have zero, count ’em, 0, lady parts? I guess that’s what makes them such experts on a) the law, and b) lady parts.

    • bookish

      i did notice that.

    • cat cafe

      Why, of course, they’re experts on lady parts. Because everyone knows them wimmens don’t know anything and can’t make any decisions, or, shouldn’t make any decisions, it’s like they think they’re articulated, self-managing human beings or something, so we should feel SORRY for them and HELP them with things like screaming abuse at them as they go to the doctor’s office for a minor procedure, or make it impossible for them to go to the doctor’s office for a minor procedure, or shame them for a having a minor procedure, or pass laws against their minor procedures.. Because while you can’t force someone to donate a kidney, why, everyone knows, that’s because MEN have kidneys and you can’t force proper human beings to donate their organs, silly you! But “humans” with the “lady parts,” why everyone knows they don’t own those lady parts and those can be forced to do whatever REAL people want.

  • Abortions, hell–they gave a woman in Indiana 20 years for having a miscarriage.

    • Shan

      The woman’s name is Purvi Patel and she was convicted of both feticide AND neglect of a dependent, which are contradictory charges. If the fetus was dead before it was born, how could if have died from neglect afterward? Fucking insane.

      • Tokays_don’t_blink

        How in the sam hell did both charges stick? It makes my brain hurt.

        • Shan

          I don’t know. The jury must have been lazy or just REALLY wanted to punish that woman. I recently finished 2 weeks of jury duty and we did a LOT of deliberating over the difference between the charges, we didn’t just say FUCKIT, HE DID ALL OF THEM LET’S GO HOME.

  • chascates

    How about caring for children AFTER they’re born?

    • Charon_69

      But…they’re not a fetus then silly pants

    • cleos_mom

      Not a fertile garden for political gimmicks and fleecing the rubes.

    • NoGoodnik

      What are you a fucking socialist? Get the hell out of our theocratic fantasy!

    • HazooToo

      But then it’s not the MOTHER killing them because slut, it’s society killing them because taxes, and that means it’s THEIR fault and they don wanna talk about it.

  • Charon_69

    Can we go down this rabbit hole a little deeper even? If you assign a capital crime there must be lesser punishments which lead up to it-would it become an assault charge to have alcohol, a cheeseburger or jog during pregnancy? The end game is women hooked up and monitored continually by the government throughout the pregnancy

    • Charon_69

      The level of gov intrusion which they claim to despise would be incredible-an entire new agency with incredible powers and budget

    • Ducksworthy

      Indiana is on it.

      • cynmac

        So is Tennessee.

    • HazooToo

      My memory may have been tainted by too much L&O and NCIS, but haven’t they at least tried to forcibly commit pregnant women who drink or take drugs during pregnancy?

    • Dudleydidwrong

      Well, somebody has to produce the farm workers, lawn car people, and roofers. What’re we going to do once Trump builds his wall?

  • TeeRaak

    And Black Jesus said, let he who is without a motherfucking credit card receipt for a 5 diamond whore cast the first stone…
    https://media4.giphy.com/media/zx6jKQ8a6FTSU/200w_d.gif

    • Tokays_don’t_blink

      Love that show! One of the best prayers I’ve ever heard was from Black Jesus. “Lord, grant us sanctuary from dickery…” If that is wrong I don’t wanna be right.

  • kaw143

    It’s super simple, people: if you don’t outlaw abortion, sex is a thing that people might start doing for fun and NOBODY wants to live in a world where sex is a great way to pass the time, now do we?

    • Dudleydidwrong

      “A loaf of bread, a jug of wine, and thou beside me….”
      “Uh, baby, thanks for the bread and wine. I’m finished with them. Now pass the thou.”

  • Me not sure

    The sad fact is that stoning Isa regular practice in large areas of the world, including our “ally” Saudi Arabia.

    • revenant

      take a good, long look at what Cruz, Fischer, and all the rest want to see in America. This. All over this country.

  • Celtic_Gnome

    So, if a man and woman rob a bank, and the man goes in waving his gun around and robs they bank while the woman waits behind the wheel off the getaway car, we shouldn’t charge her of any crime, because she’s just a victim of the man’s propaganda?

    • Dr. Krieger IRL

      Clearly women have no free will of their own, that’s why Feminism is so bad for them. They’re impressionable, delicate little flowers. So on and so forth, other misogynist arguments.

    • cleos_mom

      Depends. Is he holding her husband, child or dog hostage?

    • NoGoodnik

      You know, if you follow sentencing in crimes committed by a man and a woman, the man usually gets the harsher sentence in spite of the roles they play. I’m just saying…

      • HazooToo

        That’s kind of because people think women are naturally non-violent and nurturing and that if they’re doing something bad they must have been lied to and misled. Then you have girls like the one who talked her boyfriend into committing suicide because she wanted the attention, and everyone is shocked. Shocked!

  • harryeagar

    Did I just hear Robertson say he was attracted to the more reasonable position? I can die now

    • Dr. Krieger IRL

      “A more reasonable position” in Robertsonspeak is “bring back The Crusades, roll back The Enlightenment.”

      • Dudleydidwrong

        Robertson’s “more reasonable position” is always “missionary.”

  • 11c40m60

    just maybe we should get back to doing what is right, one man one woman get marriied and make a family. less welfare single mothers that way, eh

    • Jonny On Maui

      sniff sniff, whew. no thanks…

    • cleos_mom

      Or two men and two women getting married and making a family — with zero chances of an unplanned pregnancy.

    • chicken thief

      And end divorce. I think we should also test potential couples to ensure that they can actually reproduce before they wed because why have some guy popping cherries that is shooting blanks, am I right?

    • NoGoodnik

      Or one man and multiple wives, that way the children always have a mother around. Or how about two men or two women and an adoption, that way all the unwanted unaborted children can have a loving home. Or how about a single man or a single woman and adoption.

      Gee, why don’t we just let people plan their families using all of the medical technology that an omniscient all powerful god has graced us with?

    • HazooToo

      Bless your heart, thanks for your service, go somewhere your opinions are wanted.

    • Dudleydidwrong

      Thank you for defining “right” for us. I’m glad that you are our new overlord and I appreciate your knowledge. S// Your humble subjects. Eh?

    • Odd Jørgensen

      Or the biblical model of one man, as many wives as he can afford, and all the concubines and sex slaves he can take from his defeated enemies.

    • Shan

      Or make it super easy to get sex ed, contraception and abortions. That’ll cut way down on “welfare single mothers” right? DO YOU PEOPLE EVEN LISTEN TO YOURSELVES?

    • Pinkham’s Law

      uh, yeah. sure. While you’re right, far too many single moms end up on welfare, that isn’t exactly a new problem. It was going on long before Roe v Wade, you know. If you want fewer single moms (on or off welfare), you should be in favor of safe, legal abortion being easily accessible.

      • Zyxomma

        And CONTRACEPTION. You know, slut pills.

        • Pinkham’s Law

          Well, yeah. And edumacationon how to not get pregnant, etc.

    • doktorzoom

      Hi, I think you’ll find this Banhammer will prevent unintended pregnancies just fine.

      –Dok Zoom, Yr Friendly Neighborhood Comments Moderator

    • Tansy Geek

      Because married couples never find themselves with too many mouths to feed.

  • Badbadger

    Am I the only one whose noticed that Pat Robertson is a goblin? That’s some Harry Potter shit going on in that video.

    • Dr. Krieger IRL

      Goblin works. I usually see him as a geriatric Cabbage Patch doll.

      • jmhm

        I get Bilbo undergoing ring withdrawal.

        • Dudleydidwrong

          In Robertson’s case could that be a cock ring?

          • jmhm

            Oh, mental image do not want.

  • Ryan Denniston

    “They didn’t know better. Nobody told them, nobody tried to talk them out of it, nobody explained the humanity of the baby in the womb, so they did not know what they were doing.”

    Treating women as infants seems to be another right wing staple. Party of Personal Responsibility (TM) my ass.

    • NoGoodnik

      I kinda think none of them are fathers or uncles. When my wife was pregnant, I understood immediately the humanity of the baby in the womb and I kinda think every woman who’s ever been pregnant and every man who’s ever been in a committed relationship does, too. We also had several miscarriages before carrying to term, and they were the worst thing that ever happened to me, especially the first one.

      Pregnancy when you’re trying and wanting a baby, is wonderful thing. When it terminates, it is a tragedy almost tantamount, but not quite, to losing a child.

      Pregnancy when you are not trying and wanting a baby, is a terrifying thing. When it terminates, it is a relief.

      • HazooToo

        My kid was unexpected, but welcomed. The only point in my life when I considered an abortion was the one time my husband and I actually tried, and then I realized we were SO NOT READY. Thankfully, no pregnancy then, just a scare. But I completely understood what I was getting into, and the humanity of the possible child I would be growing, and THAT is what scared me the most and made me realize that if I was pregnant at that time and in that place, I would need an abortion. And this was in Virginia, sooo… wasn’t sure if I could get one.

        • NoGoodnik

          The problem with the abortion “debate” is that these stories are not visible and we don’t talk about them. When we miscarried and I told people about it, we got tons of responses like, my sister/mother/aunt/cousin/friend/self had a miscarriage. Until then, we thought we were a huge minority. It’s the same with abortion. One in three women will have an abortion before 45. Everyone probably knows someone who has had an abortion, but just doesn’t realize it. If we did, we would probably be more accepting of it.

          • Beaumarchais?

            That’s a lot of women to punish!

          • NoGoodnik

            How many people are in prison right now? How many people have been in prison?

          • Beaumarchais?

            Since you asked, in 2013 we had 2.2 million behind bars. With 318 million U.S. citizens, 50.8% of which are women, times 33%, carry the one: we gotta lock up 53.3 million women.

            Which could cost a lotta money, and also too, who will make the sammiches?

          • Shan

            And don’t forget, of those 53.3 million getting locked up, 2/3 of them already had some borned babbies. What happens to THEM?

          • Beaumarchais?

            Already borned—not our problem!

          • HazooToo

            It used to be that way for kids who had disabilities, too, but thankfully that’s getting better. My son’s best friend has Aspergers, and is thankfully in a school where he and his parents can get the support and community they need.

    • Shan

      And what they don’t realize is that 2/3 of people having an abortion already HAVE at least one child. They know what the hell they’re doing. It’s another HUMAN they don’t want to give birth to. They know it’s not a platypus up in there.

  • freakishlystrong

    I suggest all the men quoted above don’t get abortions if they’re so opposed. Nor should any forced birth man have sex with a woman without the intent of raising babby, and paying for it. Also too, LEAVE US THE FUCK ALONE. It really is none of your fucking business.

    • SDGeoff

      It seems as if everything rhey stand for is none of their business

  • Thatsitfor Theotherwon

    So during the Cold War and under orders of the DoD under President Reagan, I sat Victor alert in England in a jet so heavily armed it would have ranked about number eight or nine in the world’s nuclear powers at the time.

    Sanctity of life, my ass.

    • Dr. Krieger IRL

      Life is sacred when it’s a fetus because Jesus. Life is meaningless when they’re poor, a foreign, a non-Christian or a non-Repug because bootstraps and Manifest Destiny.

    • Dudleydidwrong

      My life is sacred. Your life after you’re born? Well, just screw you if I deem it necessary.

  • cleos_mom

    Tom Hartmann’s show this week included a segment on Trump’s beanspilling. A caller who said he was “pro-life” mentioned that he had a teenage daughter. Hartmann asked him what his M.O. would be if she were raped and a pregnancy resulted. The caller said he’d “support” his daughter’s decision to either keep the baby or have it adopted but as for an abortion, “I just couldn’t live with that.”

    She’s pregnant. But it’s all about him.

    • Dudleydidwrong

      If Trump “spilled the beans,” then the caller on the Hartmann show spilled the whole truckload of beans. Of course it is “all about him” because the “hims” run the show and don’t have abortions. As has been said many times, if men got pregnant abortion would be a sacrament.

    • MarkM

      Their attitude is utterly contemptible. I so despise those self-righteous, moralistic shitbags.

  • UnsaltedSinner

    When anti-choicers explain that women who have abortions shouldn’t be punished because they are basically too female to be held responsible for their actions, they seem to forget that some doctors who carry out abortions are in fact women. So will they be punished, or can you only execute male doctors?

    Lawsplaining is hard.

    • MarkM

      They only have to convince morons. That makes it easier.

  • lovelydestruction

    which “old adage” was that, you shriveled kumquat?

  • cheetojeebus

    I’m glad to see they have their best minds working on this.

  • Mary Stone

    Yep, the Handmaid’s Tale is a how-to manual to these pissmires.

    • Erik Lonnrot

      Shh, don’t give them any ideas. At least don’t give the ones of them that know how to buy an audiobook any ideas.

  • OneDemin EOr

    This article makes me want to go have an abortion. Just to piss off these assholes.

    • Shan

      Better schedule it now. What with all the clinic closures and mandatory waiting periods, an appointment can take 6 months.

      • OneDemin EOr

        You know, I’d sign up to be a clinic escort, but I’d probably have to vote someone with my bare votes. So that wouldn’t be so good, sad face.

  • Takoma DC

    Yet these very same vile “people” don’t care about starving children. Or homeless children either. And they don’t seem to have any passion for criminalizing the dudes who requested the abortion or abandoned the pregnant woman or threatened the pregnant woman to have an abortion.

    Nope. They don’t care about starving malnourished children. Could care less about homeless kids as well. Nor dudes who are involved in scenarios they deem criminal and immoral.

    • or the children allowed to die because their parents “religious liberty” doesn’t allow actual medical intervention.

  • Kevin Morin

    A heavily edited video promulgating the falsehood that Planned Parenthood is selling baby parts is cobbled together by lying charlatans and numerous Republican pols immediately spring into action to denounce Planned Parenthood and pass laws to defund it. And even today, long after the lie has been fully exposed and the liars have been indicted, these bozos still persistently cling to the lie and cite it repeatedly.

    Meanwhile, despite a panoply of scientific evidence pointing to the fact that our earth is warming, climate change is laughingly dismissed as fake by these very same Republicans.

    Restraints, chew, not worth it, yada, yada, yada…

  • tinker12

    Hey Creepy Uncle Pat —

    • Shaydee

      Thank you!

  • Shaydee

    Conservative politicians don’t give a wit about abortion; they use it however to gin up their support from the heartland voters. Keep them believing that they ( conservatives) will repeal Row vs. Wade and save all the babbahs!

    • Think_Think_Think

      If R vs. W was repealed, and all fetuses of unplanned and unwanted pregnancies that otherwise would result in abortions were to come to full term, and all the babies were dumped, with full custodial responsibility, on those believers in the heartland (I hope the fact is not lost here that these babies would be of every race and ethnicity), would they be rejoicing over having saved the babies?

    • I bet those same conservative politicians sing a different tune with their mistresses.

      • Shaydee

        There is a Republican congressman in Tennessee that had a mistress that he insisted get an abortion. Still got elected and re-elected. Dejarlais isn’t his name. Something like that.

  • meanlawyermom

    Just had the weirdest conversation with a Republican “libertarian” who told me I was ridiculous for supporting Hillary over “an egg” after I told him that a woman’s autonomy over her own body was my make-or-break issue. He truly thinks that Trump does not care about this issue.

    I told him I’d vote for either Hillary or Bernie, whichever won the nomination, but there is no way I’d ever vote for any of the current Republican nominees. This is how Trump is winning these people. They don’t agree with one bit of the Christian fundamentalist arguments pushed forth by Cruz or Rubio, but they just don’t think abortion is a big deal because it doesn’t affect them personally.

  • Tosca

    I have to say that – batshit insane as Trump is – he cuts to the chase. Punishing women for having an abortion is the logical extension of the pro-forced birth rhetoric, and he’s zeroed in on it like a dog on a crotch.

    Anti-abortionists insist that a zygote, nay, a fucking frozen embryo, is as fully human and has as many rights and legal protections as a full-term baby. Now, imagine a situation where a mother requested another person to kill her full term baby. After going through considerable time, trouble and expense to obtain the services of this person, she stands by and watches while he kills her infant, then calmly thanks him and walks out of his office. A woman who did this would be punished, no? So why not a woman who does exactly the same thing to her baby before it’s born?

    But Republicans much prefer that no one thinks about the logical extensions of their policies, because they lead to fucking nightmares.

  • Al F

    The smartest Republican has an IQ of 99.

    • Cool_North

      Too high. Lower.

  • Zyxomma

    Their real gripe is with God, who sees fit to end somewhere between 37 and 50% of all first trimester pregnancies with spontaneous abortion, a/k/a miscarriage.

    Wonketteers, please seek out the film Rain Without Thunder. I have a tape made from TV (so it was edited), and would love to see the whole film. It’s great, although not great enough for me to join Amazon Prime, which has it. It’s not on DVD (I check for it every few months).

    Btw, rightwing nutjobs: Until Roe v. Wade, ZILLIONS of women got “punished” for having abortions. I have a friend who left the country to get one. It didn’t go well. She came back deathly ill, and when she awoke in the hospital, the FBI was at her bedside, demanding to know “Who did this to you?”

    Many women died attempting do-it-yourself abortions. Keep it legal to keep it safe.

    p.s. During my so-called reproductive years, I was good enough about birth control that I never got pregnant, so I haven’t been there and done that. I don’t thank God for that, I thank ME. I knew by age 13 that I never wanted children.

  • “Polluted by Liberalism”? I don’t feel polluted.

    • OrdinaryJoe

      The christo-fascist right is going to peel away from him. I overheard two women on the escalator at the mall yesterday blabbing politics and one said quite too loudly for my taste, “Well he can’t be much of a Christian if he let his daughter marry a Jew,” with a long hard emphasis on the “ew” part of the last word. I weep at the thought of how little real progress we have achieved.

  • Usedtobeyellerdawg

    So, if it’s a person, and an abortion is murder, why make the exception for incest or rape? Those aren’t the fetus’ fault, so if Josh knocks up one of his sisters, they can just welcome that blind banjo player right into the family. Also, if we’re going to start throwing punishments out there, the men involved should be held at least as accessories, right?

    • mardam422

      See, now you’re just talking jibberish.

    • Erik Lonnrot

      Exactly, if you believe that abortion is actually murder, rape and incest are not valid exceptions. If someone rapes me I don’t get to go murder one of their children. On the punishing the women thing, if you really believed that it was murder then it would be a contract killing type situation where both the woman and the doctor would be guilty of conspiracy to commit murder.

  • Kooolest G

    A little OT, but in regards to planned parenthood selling babby parts, I wonder what these right wingers think we should do with the fetal tissue from abortions if we’re not allowed to use it for science? Do we just toss it in the dumpster? A sharps container? A full christian burial? Would that be better than using it for life saving research?

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