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If you'd planned better, you wouldn't have gotten old.

San Antonio, Texas, just elected its first African-American mayor, Interim Mayor Ivy Taylor. That’s really exciting news, and while we don’t know how 101-year old Mary Lou Miller planned to vote, she sure wishes her vote could have counted. But thanks to Texas’s asinine voter ID law, Ms. Miller was excluded from casting a ballot, ending a voting career that goes back to 1934. We’re pretty Mad About this Thing, and urge you to go read Miller’s whole story so you can be mad, too.

Miller notes that the 19th Amendment was ratified when she was seven years old, and that as soon as she was 21, she voted in the 1934 elections, and has voted ever since. She also registered voters and drove people to the polls. But thanks to the nonexistent fear of voting fraud, there’s not likely to be any more voting for Mary Lou Miller, because she can’t get a photo ID. Way to go, Texas! You’re really good at something!

She used to vote by mail because she lived in an assisted living facility — no ID necessary. But between applying for her ballot and the election, she moved to a new facility, and the Post Office doesn’t forward ballots. Gotta avoid fraud, after all. So Miller tried to get a photo ID, which was a problem for her; she stopped driving when she was in her early 80s, and never got a replacement ID. So when she went to the Texas Department of Public Safety to get a new ID, she was out of luck, because even though she’d been voting since Franklin Roosevelt was in office, she now finds herself not documented enough to get a Texas photo ID:

I did not have a Texas Driver’s License issued within two years of expiration. No Passport. No unexpired U.S. military photo ID. Nor did I have an “advance parole document with photo.” Sorry, but I never did time in the penitentiary, so I don’t have that document. Had I had just one of these documents, I could obtain my “Proof of Identity” and be somebody.

Oh, sure, she has a Social Security and a Medicaid card. But those aren’t good enough in Texas. She needed her birth certificate, which was a bit of a problem:

I have never seen my birth certificate, if, indeed, one was issued. I was born in Luxor, a very tiny unincorporated coal village in Southwestern Pennsylvania, and maybe they recorded my birth, but I don’t have a copy. Nor was I born abroad, and I don’t possess a certified copy of a court order indicating a change of name.

She went ahead and submitted a provisional ballot at an early voting site, but knew  it wouldn’t count, because it would only be good “if I, within 72 hours, present myself at the Elections Office with documents impossible for me to obtain.” That’s some catch, now isn’t it?

Ms. Miller had nothing but nice things to say about everyone at the DPS and voting sites who tried to help her:

I must say that the clerks at both locations could not have been nicer, and they afforded me the most professional respect possible. They did not write the regulations, and they declared my situation was the strangest set of circumstances they had encountered. But my vote won’t count.

And at the end of her essay, does she rail against the obvious injustice of this idiotic law, or note that it’s working exactly as designed, to limit participation in the electoral process? Nope. Don’t think that would have occurred to her, because she is entirely too kind. Instead of calling the system the massive cynical theft of democracy that it is, she’s content to make a moral case, urging people who can vote to “go to the polls and cast the vote I am being denied. Vote for those of us who cannot.”

Oh, but the comments. They’re the real gems. There’s the guy who proudly proclaims that he doesn’t vote because politicians are all crooks. There’s the smartass who explains that “obtaining an ID is not difficult, but you do have to have an IQ just a little highter [sic] than a turnip.” (This guy no doubt would also call for a return of literacy tests for voting.) There’s the Rules Are Rules guy who patiently explains that voter ID laws apply to everyone, so there.

And then there are the two schmucks who inform the foolish old woman that this is all her fault. One suggests she’s such an extreme outlier that she has to be a plant — either by the Democrats or the liberal newspaper editors — and also she should have known better than to expect her ballot to be forwarded, dummy. The other explains that she should have thought ahead and gotten a photo ID when she stopped driving 20 years ago, presumably because she should have known that she’d need it to vote in 2015. The only surprise is that nobody lectured her about how she should have had the good sense to be born somewhere that would have a backup copy of her birth certificate.

And so the Great GOP Voter Suppression Machine works — everyone needs an ID to prevent the fraud that doesn’t exist, and nobody really is inconvenienced, not at all. At least not anyone who matters. Only about 600,000 Texans who would otherwise be able to vote. In a sane system, voter registration would be automatic, but in Texas they don’t do sane.

A couple weeks ago, The Rachel Maddow Show featured an excerpt from this video by the Campaign Legal Center, which has been working to help voters in Texas get proper ID. Even with well-prepared volunteers helping, voters hit roadblocks, just as the law intended. It’s frustrating and infuriating, and you should watch it. Just keep any heavy objects out of throwing distance:

Here’s hoping Texas’s insane restrictions on voting are gone long before Mary Lou Miller is. She deserves to vote again. The election thieves who designed the voting restrictions? They deserve a polling place designed by M.C. Escher, staffed by escapees from a Kafka novel.

[San Antonio Express News / Campaign Legal Center]

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  • beatbort

    God damn you, Texas. For this. And for so many other things.

  • FauxAntocles

    In a sane democracy, voting would be compulsory.

    • ManchuCandidate

      It’s Tejas. Sanity need not apply.

  • Tallmutha
    • BadKitty904

      Me, on Monday Mornings.

      • BackDoorMan

        … me, most mornings when my beloved Wonkette delivers Derp Of The World news to my browser.

  • ManchuCandidate

    Can’t have Tejas turn purple, can it?

    On the bright side, no matter what Tejas’ cranky white olds do to fuck things up they will disappear in a tidal wave of brown or drop dead from eating one too many chicken fried steaks.

  • Nounverb911

    Don’t mess with the olds Texas. People like Mary Lou Miller have a direct line to Jeebus and He is getting even by sending Tropical Storm Bill to wash Texas away.

  • LarryHoudini

    She voted for FDR? Sounds like this law is working as planned.

  • Ryan Denniston

    “One suggests she’s such an extreme outlier that she has to be a plant — either by the Democrats or the liberal newspaper editors — and also she should have known better than to expect her ballot to be forwarded, dummy.”

    There are conspiracies everywhere! Egad, her single vote could have ushered in Sharia Socialism! At least, that’s as much coherence as I can establish in the mindset of this doofus.

  • dshwa

    It’s shit like this that makes it hard for me to love my fellow man.

  • elviouslyqueer

    In a perfect world, all those asshole commenters at the SA Express News would be stripped naked, covered in honey, and chained to a barbed wire fence in close proximity to a giant fire ant mound.

    • JustPixelz

      Don’t forget to say “without votes”

  • alnnc

    It’s not just a problem in Texas. North Carolina has similar restrictions coming up in 2016. They have also cut early voting hours, including any Sunday hours (typical big days for black churches to organize voting groups). In addition, some local election boards have tried to cut student voting on college campuses, going as far as trying to remove a voting site from the campus of a 10,000 student school to site over a mile away with about 25 parking spaces.

    • Ryan Denniston

      They pulled the early voting location from Duke, where I am. Evil bastards. At least we have it good compared with Elizabeth City State University, where they tried to move the site too far away for students to vote.

      • NationalGalleryofClipArt

        I would think Dookies mostly, if not exclusively, GOP.

        Regardless, fuck Mick Krizilonski.

        • Ryan Denniston

          The staff outnumber the students, and they’re pretty liberal.

    • nightmoth

      Same in Georgia. Pass new voter id laws, reduce early voting, remove voting site from UGA campus, and now the GOP has realized Atlanta’s black churches send vans of voters to the polls after church, they’re trying to get rid of Sunday voting.( You should have heard the petulance over “van loads of black voters leaving from church.” OMG—it was awful!) The only bright side I can see is there must be some sign of life in the Georgia Democratic party, or the GOP wouldn’t be so scared, but probably it’s just more of their need to control, rather than compromise.

  • Spotts1701

    I wonder if the “rules are rules” guy would be so sanguine about it if it was his ballot?
    And as for the “I don’t vote” guy – great. Your choice. But you better keep your piehole shut about who’s running the country and how they’re doing it.

    • Ryan Denniston

      Of course not. As soon as it’s his ballot, he’ll immediately become a victim. It’s just like Craig T. Nelson talking about welfare. It wasn’t welfare for him dontchaknow.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTwpBLzxe4U

      • NationalGalleryofClipArt

        Hayden Fox is a Cocksucker.

    • JustPixelz

      “rules are rules” … ask him after SCOTUS legalizes same sex marriage.

  • AngryBlakGuy

    …kinda ironic that they have more restrictions on voting than gun ownership in that ASS Backward state

  • BadKitty904

    What do you think this is, a free country or something?

  • cousin itt

    Couldn’t Mary Lou just use a Pony Express-in ballot?

  • mediabob

    Anyone know the names of the merry band who initiated this law?

    • cousin itt

      The Vogons?

      • beatbort

        Mullah Omar?

    • Nounverb911

      Rick Perry?
      W?

    • Ryan Denniston

      Probably something Orwellian, like “Americans Concerned with Freedom of Expression and Citizen Empowerment.”

    • BadKitty904

      Das Institut für Texanisch Kultur?

    • Jen_Baker_VA

      gonna just guess that the name begins with a big G and ends in asshole.

  • BadKitty904

    If votes are outlawed, only centenarians will have votes. Or something.

  • Lizzietish81

    If only she had a gun

  • Viva La Tabula Raza

    I’m mostly surprised she was allowed to vote down here back in the 30s, 40s, and 50s.

    • Blank Ron

      When things were better in the 1930s, something is seriously fucked up now.

  • Fartknocker

    I reiterate that Rick Perry is a goat fucker because it was him and Tom Delay back in the day that redistricted the most populated areas of Texas.

    Hillary Clinton is correct: election laws need to Federalized.

    • BadKitty904

      Amen, amen, amen.

    • VandeGraf

      Same thing happene in PA, but with different players.

    • artem1s

      but only if the voter is wearing the right pant suit.

  • Fly

    Texas considers any vote for a democrat fraudulent.

    • Relativicus

      That’s actually a base belief among Republicans.

  • BREAKING NEWS: Donald Trump says on teevee he really, really, I mean REALLY HATES dirty filthy Messican pigs. ALSO: Obama left a bunch of super-fly Humvees in Iraquistan so TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT!

    • Mary Sandoras

      Well according to the Donald he is the only one competent enough to save America. Babble, babble, babble……

      LOL And a 5 billion dollar web site for Obamacare……theres a figure I’m sure he pulled out of his butt or tupee…not sure which end he’s talking from.

      • And ObamaCare only works if you get run over by a tractor – LITERALLY!

        WAKE UP SHEEPLE

        • sillyclucker

          I know a few people. We could arrange that for The Donald (with votes? )

        • VandeGraf

          I know someone who was figuratively run over by a tractor and his ObamaCare kicked in.

          • Blank Ron

            I was LITERALLY run over by a tractor. Well, rolled over onto by a tractor. Single-payer FTW

        • Mary Sandoras

          That was priceless. Thus far the only item missing with his yooooge announcement is his Superman cape.

    • JustPixelz

      If Trump actually runs, I may have to rethink my views on the existence of Comedy God.

      • Who the hell are all those shouty people? TRUMPloyees?

        • Mary Sandoras

          Patrons from his casino that he rounded up I think. He bribed them with $5.00 in free slot play.

          It’s OFFICIAL…the Trump is running for prez.

          • BadKitty904

            Time to crank up the calliope!

        • BadKitty904

          TRUMPettes.

          • eggsacklywright

            Strumpets.

      • Mary Sandoras

        Time to rethink!

      • grumblestiltskin

        And it came to pass, Huckabee hast Comedy God given thou as a sign. Now he signals the faithful anew. When the prophecy of Christie is fulfilled all shall know the comedic ministry of The Three Yooges.

      • BackDoorMan

        .. hate to be the bearer of bad (good?) news, but Teh Trumpster has in fact announced he’s “running” (not just his mouth this time)… and he made a big point of reminding us how rich he is because that’s what being Presidense is all about. His rambling ego-jerk of a speech was only slightly more coherent than $arah’s last stoned/drunk stand at the podium. And every bit as WTF? entertaining.

  • sillyclucker

    I’ve been trying to get an account with the San Antonio Express News so I can yell at the jackass commenting. My account won’t work. They must know my intentions.

  • Incoming Ham

    My 80 year old white father showed up at the polls and forgot his id. Wasn’t turned away.

    • BadKitty904

      My Granddad last voted when he was 94. God help anyone who’ve tried to have stopped him from doing so.

      • NationalGalleryofClipArt

        My 94 years old, WWII veteran grandmother (Army nurse), if they try to keep her from voting… Some 70 years old Republican lady poll workers in Wauwatosa will know the pain.

    • Redgyal

      Fraud!

      • Incoming Ham

        Not if you are an 80 year old white male who votes republican.

  • Oy, she was born BEFORE WOMEN COULD VOTE…I just can’t even snark about this.

    • natoslug

      The state is just trying to help her relive her childhood. Is that so bad? (yes, yes it is)

  • Logic of Color

    Things like this make it very hard to be patriotic. Land of the free my ass. If you can’t vote you’re not free.

    • Jen_Baker_VA

      sorta says something in a place where anyone can get a gun pretty much whenever they want to…but you can only vote if you jump through enough hoops

      • Redgyal

        Not really anyone but I get your point.

  • Reddishrabbit

    Maybe we should have an ID program for everyone. Wait, isn’t that somene paranoid right wing fearfear? Gov’t making everyone for the anti-christ?

  • Vecciojohn

    The good news is, Texas has found a way to keep women from voting. The bad news is, it takes over 100 years to disenfranchise them.

  • BadKitty904

    So the GOP’s deliberate and public plan to strip American citizens of their right to vote is on track…

  • calliecallie

    Voting restrictions: when your klown kar kandidates are just not good enough to win.

  • VandeGraf

    Texas, where democracy goes to die.

  • Wonkaholic

    If only there was some ammendment to the Constitution that stayed that the right to vote shall not be infringed…

    • VandeGraf

      Congress would probably threaten to enlist those fraudulent voters in a well regulated militia!

      • grumblestiltskin

        But….but…but the people demand well-regulated voters in a fraudulent militia!

  • dslindc

    Now I am mad about a thing! Way to go, Texas (of course)!

  • artem1s

    Hillz is spending her campaign monies in three states to get these ID laws overturned. She wants voting rights for everyone (even the ones who will go out and vote for Bernie cause he’s the REAL liberal). But obviously can’t be a champion of the people because she wears the wrong pantsuits.

    • Callyson

      Did you see that freaking Mitt Romney called Hillary a phony populist? The wingnuts are getting desperate now…more so…

      • artem1s

        yea, that was rich. but Mitt is so deluded about the public image he projects, it didn’t surprise me much that he thinks he has a finger on the pulse of the 47%. I’m more pissed at the idiots who report that crap like it has any bearing on reality or what the voters care about or what will influence their opinions.

        • Blank Ron

          He does have his finger on the pulse of the 47% – he’s trying to cut off their circulation.

      • Daniel P

        I believe he even used the term latte liberal which, in light of how many people patronize Starbucks nowadays I find especially hilarious.

      • Doug Langley

        Oh, it’s worse than that. Now Mittens is bursting blood vessels over the fact that Hillary is making money . . . giving speeches!! Is there no stopping this fiend?

  • Iron Monkey

    “obtaining an ID is not difficult, but you do have to have an IQ just a little highter [sic] than a turnip.”

    This commenter obviously can’t obtain an ID, unless there is one issued with a picture of a turnip.

    This an example of why the Wonkette policy of not allowing comments is enforced.

    • smr06va

      ‘Voting’ trolls — a special form of vomit…………

    • Jen_Baker_VA

      I’d like to smack that little newt silly with votes and remind him to read the friggin thing- she /tried/ to get id, hence the problem
      Well reading is not difficult, I guess, but you do have to have an IQ. period

  • rumsey

    Can some kind person drive her to the state office that issues IDs?

    • bobbert

      Um, I don’t think her problem is transportation, it’s that she lacks the rather restrictively defined documentation.

  • OHvoter83

    I think Texas allows your handgun permit to be a form of id. Maybe she should buy a gun?

    • Logic of Color

      You need a gun to vote in Texas. That could be taken a couple of ways.

      • grumblestiltskin

        I’m sure Texans resent your implication that you can do anything in Texas without a gun.

      • Me not sure

        Saying “with votes” no longer necessarily implies non-violent.

    • Hardly Ideal

      Hell, why bother with a permit as ID? You should simply vote by shooting holes in a ballot. No more hanging chads!

    • D_C_Wilson

      Guns for grandmas!

  • motmelere

    Gun toting & voting; we now know which right is truly dangerous and MUST be infringed upon in Texas.

  • Mehmeisterjr

    It’s the only way they can ensure that Obama doesn’t get a third term.

  • Sebastian Melmoth

    At a recent municipal election here in Tejas (for a town of 25,000 souls), I was turned away because I arrived armed only with my county registrar-issued voter ID card.

    • Logic of Color

      All snark aside, are you serious?

      • Sebastian Melmoth

        ASA, yes.

  • Hardly Ideal

    The election thieves who designed the voting restrictions? They deserve a
    polling place designed by M.C. Escher, staffed by escapees from a Kafka
    novel.

    Why, I just happen to have SketchUp open at this very moment! I’ll see what I can do.

  • OneDemin EOr

    This is douchery on a firehose level. Pardon me, I have to go take my second shower of the day!

    • doctormooz

      THAT’S TWO MORE SHOWERS THAN DOCTOR ‘BARN LOVER’ ZOOM HAS TAKEN THIS MONTH. HURRAH

      BEATING UP BRONYS IS OKAY – THE LGBT FOLKS ARE A PROTECTED LEGAL CLASS (IN MOST CIVILIZED AREAS) AND SHOULD BE LEFT ALONE – BUT GUESS WHAT??? THE “B” IN LGBT DOESN’T STAND FOR “BRONY”! LET’S RID OUR CHRISTIAN NATION OF THIS MENACE BEFORE ANOTHER KID IS DIDDLED BY A MAN WHOSE ANUS HAS BEEN PERFORATED BY MANY THROUGHBRED HORSES (THAT WOULD BE DOCTOR ZOOM OR ONE OF HIS BRONY FRIENDS)

      https://youtu.be/bUro_cDIXtw

  • George

    Two minutes after the first ship leaves Earth orbit to forge a new home among the stars, they will vote, democratically, for the first Captain. Even though the ship’s charter states that all passengers and crew are equal under the law, some fatuous bag-o-hammers with a private cabin in 1st class will warn that the engineering cogs plan to change their hats and vote twice. He’ll then pay a space-blogger (first one, btw!) to spread a story about cleaning droids being driven to the polls by the socialist “Venus Party.”

    Three minutes in, the “Mars Bars” will organize a rally around the main airlock claiming a need to protect it from illegal aliens (hey, y’know..) sneaking on board to vote, and breathe and eat and stuff, which will lead, inevitably they say, to the ship spiraling into the sun…or maybe a black hole…or, if we pass the black hole and the sun unscathed, maybe it’ll be an asteroid. In any case, can’t let them vote. Have to put a DNA test in place.

    Just enough of the ship’s population will be buy into the assured destruction arrative. The election will go to Rougned Odor, IX. A sportsball/bitcoin scion with Kardashian heritage who promises to divert money from training new ion-drive engineers into a program designing weapons for an airlock security system.

    Twenty years later, two droll-looking green people will answer a distress call bleeding out from the drifting hull of Humanity’s last great hope and promise. They agree to go aboard and search for survivors. Upon their approach they are zapped into atoms by a large canon by the airlock. The last thing they see will be the large, painted-on lettering on the side of the gun. The Green on the left will have just enough time to ask, “What means ‘Don’t Mess With Texas?'”

    We will never be rid of these people.

    • Kat Anyperson

      All of this has happened before and will happen again.

      • George

        Do I hear faint strains of “All Along The Watchtower?”

  • Kat Anyperson

    “Southwestern Pennsylvania” … unsurprised in the least.

    The PA supreme court threw out Corbett’s shit voter id law because there are so many fraking olds and country/plain folk who lack birth certificates.

    • Lord-Nash

      In all fairness, most of the counties in Southwest PA did vote to throw out that shit Corbett. So, ya know, at least we got that going for us.

      • Kat Anyperson

        Here in Dauphin County we are gerrymandered to frak and we still gave Corbett the old heave ho. Not even the Teabaggers liked that guy in the end. XD

        • D_C_Wilson

          You have to love our current congressional district. It starts in Harrisburg and somehow stretches ninety miles all the way to Hazelton just to keep that jackass Barleta in office.

          • That sounds like the NW Ohio democrat Marcy Kaptur. They couldn’t get her out, so they pencil-fecked her district to a long, thin strip along Lake Erie. :/

          • D_C_Wilson

            That’s pretty much what they did to get rid of the democrat who used to represent our area. Plus, it created a safe district for the racist former mayor of Hazelton.

          • infojunkie

            And ousted Kucinich, which was the whole point. He was a weird duck but one of only a very few dems on state/federal level. Gerrymandering cuz they can’t win fair and square.

        • ahughes798

          I’m sure that even IF Wonkette allowed comments, it would be okay to use real swears. But since they don’t allow comments, nevermind.

          • Kat Anyperson

            “Frak” is Battlestar Galactica nerdbait, as is my avatar. I love flushing out fellow BG fans (just not out of any airlocks *cough*)

  • John Crawford

    I trust that this lovely lady has, by now, called or written to the county in PA where she was born. Presumably, she did that before writing her letter. So, her birth certificate should be on the way, and she’ll vote in the next election.
    Semper fi

    • D_C_Wilson

      Doubtful. She was born in 1914. County records in most rural areas of PA are crap. It’s doubtful any record of her birth still exists.

    • Kat Anyperson

      Yeah, that’s not how it works up here in Pennsyltucky, past or present.

      Pa is the second most forested state in the nation, second only to Alaska. It is literally Pittsburgh on one end, Philly on the other and rural Arkansas in between. Many of these small towns had/have no doctors, hospitals or government offices. These aren’t affluent areas, either, so people aren’t exactly driving down from the mountains in Perry County to Harrisburg hospitals to pop out their babbies.

      Then there are the Plain foik, many of whom have have their own version of a birth certificate called a Fractur. These works of art are an important part of PA dutch cultural heritage, but do not serve as a legal birth cert. If a child leaves the Plain community with nothing but a fraktur as a birth certificate, they are royally fucked.

      People are born and die here without ever getting a birth certificate or leaving the one traffic light town they grew up in. That’s why our supreme court found against voter ID.

      • John Crawford

        You say that’s not how its done, but has she tried? One doesn’t give up BEFORE trying!
        Semper fi

        • Kat Anyperson

          If you read her story, yes, she tried. The records don’t exist, either because they never existed or were lost/destroyed long ago.

          • John Crawford

            No, the story told, and the one linked to another (narrated by her) doesn’t say she tried. It says that she doesn’t know if there ever was one, or if one may be on file in her birth County offices.
            Semper fi

          • Kat Anyperson

            She wouldn’t have been able to even if she tried, sunshine. Remember her little invalid ID problem?

            http://www.health.pa.gov/MyRecords/Certificates/BirthCertificates/Pages/Order-Birth-by-Mail.aspx

            “Enclose a copy of your valid ID – expired ID will not be accepted”

            Ordering online results in uncertified Birth Certificates (no raised seal because it’s pulled from public records that they cannot verify the accuracy on) that cannot be used to obtain a new ID.

            That leaves ordering a new one in person, which would require her to fly to PA and present this form along with the required documentation to get a card.
            http://www.health.pa.gov/migration/Documents/Statement_from_Requestors.pdf

            This isn’t an issue of her not trying hard enough. She doesn’t need new bootstraps to pick herself up by. The legal system is holding up hoops and demanding she jump through them like a fraking circus poodle.

          • John Crawford

            I’m sure it was only an oversight, that you neglected to mention the Eligible Requestors who may do so for her, right?
            Semper fi

          • Kat Anyperson

            No oversight, it was bait to get you to start talking facts and stop pontificating about how she should “try harder”.

            1) We don’t know if she has any living relatives, let alone ones who live in PA.

            2) Assuming that no one in state, they would need to fly or drive to one of the designated locations with the signed form and necessary info.

            This could be a potential expense of thousands.

            3) Assuming someone is able to get there and present something, there might not be a birth certificate to obtain, leaving them out the expense of the trip for nothing.

            Her birth certificate doesn’t exist on public searches for that time frame. I’m an anthropologist and a genealogist- I know where the frak to look. If you would like to prove me wrong by finding her birth certificate online, be my guest.

            I doubt you’ll try. If you found it, you wouldn’t be able to moralize about how she should try harder.

          • John Crawford

            Why would it cost thousands? Travel doesn’t cost that much, and the PA site doesn’t specify that it must be done in person. And this is something goes family does for family.
            Moralize? Everyone needs ID, no matter their age
            Semper fi

          • D_C_Wilson

            She’s 101. How many living relatives do you think she has who can travel from Texas to Pennsylvania?

          • John Crawford

            You said you had read the info. I have no ideas how many family she has, but if she was typical of most women of her era, she likely has a number of grandchildren, any of whom can do this for her.
            Semper fi

          • D_C_Wilson

            “You said you had read the info.”

            I never said anything of the kind.

          • John Crawford

            Actually, you did, when you said you posted the link as bait.
            Semper fi

          • D_C_Wilson

            I didn’t post any link. Maybe you should pay more attention to the names of the people you’re replying to.

          • D_C_Wilson

            BTW, no real marine would feel compelled to advertise themselves by ending every post with “Semper fi.”

          • John Crawford

            You, not being a Marine, have no say in in the matter.
            Semper fi

          • D_C_Wilson

            And as fake marine, neither do you.

          • George

            Again, assumption.

          • John Crawford

            No pal. Knowledge.
            Semper fi

          • George

            Don’t try to pull the “knowledge” card with me. I’m reading this through my bifocals, too, you arrogant fool.

          • John Crawford

            Arrogant, you bet! And you can also bet I will continue to use the motto I earned, over 26 years of active duty.
            YOU butted in, and said I am assuming D C is not Marine. Please note that he has not responded. If you have precise information that he is, meaning he was foolish enough to post his information for you, then present it. Otherwise, its none of your business!
            Semper fi

          • George

            A man has to respond to you to verify his life? To you? Maybe he just has less stomach for your stilted prose and rigid philosophy than I do. Maybe he’s out, right now, doing Marine stuff.

            And 26 yrs of active duty is commendable. But you don’t get to use it as a club with which to bludgeon people who disagree with you. It gives you no special rights, or makes you somehow more “American” than everybody else. If you think it does, you gave those 26 years for all the wrong reasons.

          • John Crawford

            If he tells me a Marine wouldn’t sign off, he is saying he knows what Marines are and do. In order for that to be the case, he must be a Marine. Otherwise, he’s pulling a rabbit out of his….! He gets no say in how a Marine behaves!
            I don’t use my service as a bludgeon. But you Leftists certainly try to negate it, so I respond. Stick to the subjects, as I do.
            BTW, it really DOES make me more “American” than everyone else. And the same goes for anyone who has worn the uniform of an American GI.
            Semper fi

          • George

            Wow.

            “He gets no say…”

            “…it really DOES make me more “American” than everyone else.”

            You’ve completely missed the point of being american.

            You’re really a horrible, horrible little man, aren’t you?

            Semper fi that.

          • John Crawford

            I am horrible. I have never missed the point of being American. Americans have liberty. We have the liberty to fulfill civic duties, or NOT! Too many of you seem to think that you are entitled to privilege. The only privilege to which you are entitled is the privilege of providing for yourself and your family, without overarching government interference, and to the Rights protected by the Constitution.
            Semper fi

          • George

            “Too many of you seem to think that you are entitled to privilege.” That’s rich coming from the guy who thinks he’s more american than the rest of us.

            Look, your child-like belief in individualistic self reliance is charming and all, but I don’t have much patience for the way you wingnutters throw around words like liberty and privilege. I don’t think they mean what you think they mean. Beyond that, your arguments overall are bad (and maybe worse, predictable); you’re not quick on your feet; and god knows, you are the very definition of a walking, talking stereotype.

            But, on the plus side, you’re not writing in ALLCAPS yet. So that’s something, I guess.

          • jmk

            You were in the Marines? You should have mentioned that.

            (/end sarcasm)

            Your attitude, while common, is disgraceful – no member of my military family would share it.

            As your former employer – because as a member of the armed forces, you work for the American people – I’ll tell you that no, your service does NOT make you more American than the rest of us…and if you think it does, you know not one fucking thing about being American.

            Toodles.

          • John Crawford

            No, I didn’t work for the “American people”. I served the Constitution, to which my oath was directed. You were not my employer, and had no say.
            Semper fi

          • Hey there John, George, D_C, and others…

            Let’s not see this escalate, it is pretty clear this is not a productive conversation.

            Not doing anything yet, but I’m watching this thread now.

          • John Crawford

            Good. I hope you have a terrific day.
            Semper fi

          • George

            You are right, of course. I am just seeing this, now. I’ve said more than I meant to, and I am a bit angry. But, this ends now.

          • jmk

            We paid your salary and pay your pension. That sounds like employment to me, cupcake.

          • John Crawford

            I paid taxes as well, and the fact that you did so also, means you only fulfilled the Constitutional duty of the central government in raising and funding the military. So, moonbeam, your comment is meaningless.
            Semper fi

          • jmk

            And yet you responded.

            And gee, “super-American,” the more you yammer, the more it becomes obvious that you’d be more accurate ending your blarts with dolium volvitur.

          • John Crawford

            Yes, I responded. It is the civil thing to do, regardless your petty insult.
            Semper fi

          • George

            And not just funding the military, but schools, the National Endowment for the Arts, Nasa, the EPA, the FDA, the Peace Corps, food stamps, the National Science Foundation, federally funded school lunch programs, the Dept of Education, NPR, Obamacare!

          • John Crawford

            Of the things you mention, none are authorized to the central government except the military. And hundreds of billions are wasted in those programs.
            Semper fi

          • George

            This is correct. No argument from me. But now, you have no say when the constitution demands equal treatment under the law for everyone…and universal suffrage.

          • John Crawford

            The Constitution intended that all have a vote. It makes no mention of states authority to ensure voters are honest, giving them the Power to run their election processes as they see fit.
            Semper fi

          • John Crawford

            BTW, I don’t care whether your military family likes it, or not.
            Semper fi

          • jmk

            Well… let’s see… you’re one guy who claims to have been a Marine…and my family is comprised of multiple people, who served/are serving in multiple branches of the service, over several generations. Using what seems to pass in your fantasy world for logic, that makes MY family “more “American” than everyone else,” including YOU, sugarpop.

            And FYI, but when you claim that your service makes you “more “American” than everyone else,” you ARE trying to use it as a “bludgeon.”

            Logic… how does it work?

          • John Crawford

            Gee, if you’d asked, I’d have mentioned my WWI Grandfather and great-uncle; my WWII father and 3 uncles; my Korean War uncle; my Vietnam cousin, and; my two cousins who served during my service time. Navy, Army, Air Force. I and one cousin Marines. So, nope, you’re wrong again!
            Semper fi

          • jmk

            Oh I didn’t ask… because I’m supremely uninterested in you.

            I just wanted to point out the idiocy of your premise, you arrogant little cupcake.

          • John Crawford

            Poor moonbeam, you’re just angry that someone would have the temerity to respond. Tough!
            Semper fi

          • jmk

            You haven’t made me angry.

            Just bored.

          • John Crawford

            And yet, here you are.
            Semper fi

          • jmk

            You’re the visitor, cupcake. I’m on here a lot.

          • John Crawford

            Unless you own the site, you’re a visitor, regardless how often you visit!
            Semper fi

          • jmk

            You poor thing…but you know…arrogant, stupid, and resentful is no way to go through life, son. You should get counseling.

          • George

            Yeah…Your great-grandmother could have dry-humped George Washington and it still wouldn’t make you more american than anyone else. In fact, my Lebanese friend, who was naturalized at 27 yrs old, is possibly more american because he sees us all as being in the same boat. Equals, if you will, in the same boat. Equals in a boat. That’s American. Not some crazy old guy screaming about how his special inherited privilege gives him the right to bludgeon the undeserving masses into boredom with his hard-won liberty.

            Semper fi-fi

          • John Crawford

            Well, not really. My great-grandmother was born long after Washington died. Perhaps your great-grandmother?
            Your Lebanese friend believes in equality? Then he isn’t a Liberal, is he!?
            Semper fi

          • George

            You are making assumptions to fit this beast into your narrative. The gulf separating your assumptions about how people should live and the way people actually live is wide enough to scare off Evil Kenevil. No rocket car could bridge the gap.

          • John Crawford

            What, you think I’m not living a life? I’m 64, with a wife and an active-duty son in the Navy. Law enforcement since military retirement. Please don’t assume you know the slightest thing about me, or about life.
            Semper fi

          • Kat Anyperson

            If this woman had to make the trip herself, it would indeed cost quite a bit- assuming she is medically cleared to fraking fly at her age.

            A flight from San Antonio to Pittsburgh costs around $550 at minimum to $800 round trip, depending on usual travel price bullshit. Hotels (it would take at least 2 nights to get everything done at minimum), meals, cab fare would push the price up above a grand. If she has relatives who could make the trip for her, they could theoretically be even farther away like Hawaii.

            The price could go up even further if there is an old dusty record hall out in Westmoreland county that she gets told to search through herself. And of course, this is in addition to the cost for the certificate and the new texas non-driver ID.

            All that absurdity, all those barriers for a US citizen to vote.. and the best you can give me is a semper fi and a “she didn’t try hard enough” because she didn’t march her 100+ year old butt up to Shittsburg. The only thing immoral here is that this woman isn’t being allowed to obtain a new ID to vote because she is so fraking old that she likely never had a birth certificate in the first place.

            I sincerely hope you are a case of deep Poe’s Law and not just that big of a heartless troll.

          • John Crawford

            But she doesn’t have to make the trip. You said you knew the info, but don’t know that?
            Semper fi

          • Kat Anyperson

            No, I said we don’t know that she has any relatives who can make the trip for her or how far they would themselves have to travel if they exist at all. Was that a misreading on your part or an intentional manipulation?

            The trip would be the only available option to her, as there are only 2 ways to obtain an official birth certificate. Lack of a current ID eliminates the one possibility, leaving only going in person in order to obtain a birth certificate that likely doesn’t exist in the first place.

            If one citizen, one vote really mattered to our government, it would register everyone automatically, free of charge, at 18. There would also be grandfather clauses and workarounds for people like this fine lady. People can’t produce birth certificates that don’t exist, nor should they be expected to go to extreme expense to obtain the documentation.

            All voter id laws do is disenfranchise voters in the name of a more or less non-existent problem.

          • John Crawford

            Sorry, but the link YOU provided does NOT say she must appear in person.
            Semper fi

          • Kat Anyperson

            Wrong, sunshine. Keep up the obvious bullshit though, Wonkette readers are notoriously happy to fact check and you won’t pull the wool over their eyes.

            The links I provided showed that to get a certified copy of a birth certificate (if it exists at all) by mail, she would need a current valid photo ID, which is the main problem. Without it, she can only obtain an unverified copy of her photo ID, which lacks the official seal *because it’s authenticity cannot be verified.* Texas will not take the unverified birth certificate. I checked.

            https://www.dps.texas.gov/DriverLicense/identificationrequirements.htm

            This leaves either 1) her going to PA with all the necessary documentation to attest in person that she is who she says she is 2) or a relative that might not exist, all for a birth certificate that cannot be found on any public database and that she doesn’t remember ever existing.

            You are the worst kind of troll- besmirching little old ladies just so you can subtly distract from the fact that this US citizen is a victim of voter disenfranchisement.

            This will not be the first time I’ve told you that your Semper Fis are an insult to the uniform.

          • John Crawford

            You provided PA, as well, which does not limit her in that way. Don’t you read everything you cite?
            Semper fi

          • John Crawford

            Kat, two links were provided. I refer to the PA link, where the lady was born. I have NOT mentioned the TX link, and you know it! PA does NOT require her to appear in person.
            Lots of states put no birth certs on-line, because of identity theft. Not being on-line is immaterial!
            Lastly, you’ve not seen me “besmirching” this lady. Were I to besmirch anyone, it would be YOU!
            Semper fi

          • Kat Anyperson

            Thank you for verifying for me that you are a one trick troll- you rely on manipulation of the others argument to make your “point” and draw out the discussion. It’s an old, highly transparent trick to derail by making people constantly backtrack to disprove your manipulation of what they said.

            I mentioned the Texas requirements for obtaining a photo ID (and linked it as proof) because she lives in Texas and is trying to get an ID there. Texas requires an official birth certificate. The links I sent you (provided you are clever enough to hit the general link to “birth certificates” from the page I linked listing specifically mail order) show that the documents must be filed in person in PA to get an official BC, *IF IT EXISTS AT ALL*. Any form of mail order without a valid photo ID will result in an uncertified birth certificate and is thus not capable of netting her a Texas ID.

            PA lists old birth certificates for public access. Her county does not have online birth certificates for that era. She cannot even verify online that the cert exists in advance. She could request an uncertified one (from the for-profit private agency that provides them for a fee) first to see if it does, but since the company that issues them cannot guarantee authenticity, there is a chance that she could get to PA and it doesn’t really exist.

            As for the besmirching, that is exactly what you are doing when you ask questions and make assumptions about how much she has “tried” to obtain an ID. You are laying this woman’s inability to vote at her feet and not at the law that took away her ability to vote (after having done so with no issue for decades). Only one of us is making assumptions about this woman and her family/birth certificate that may not exist… and it ain’t me.

            A wise soldier knows when it’s time to retreat, yet you keep going. Clearly you are willing to embarrass yourself by making assumptive fallacies about 100+ year old ladies and the legal system if it means defending voter disenfranchisement.

          • John Crawford

            Not even close. The PA reference was given to show me that the lady in question could not possibly obtain ID, because she cannot fulfill the requirements. I showed that she can, unless ALL of her children and grandchildren are dead! Even then, there is one other entity which can assist her, without requiring her to show up in person. Once she obtains the PA birth certificate, she can then get a TX ID.
            There is no, none, nada, zilch, requirement to go personally to PA, on her part or on the part of any others, in the PA site.
            Questioning someone’s ability, or willingness, to do something besmirches no one. The article makes her out to be a victim. She is not. At 101 years of age, she has learned very well how to take care of herself.
            Semper fi

          • Kat Anyperson

            I can only assume at this point you are referring to Vitalcheck (You need to learn to use specifics, sunshine. It’s a useful communication tool you should have learned by now.) Vitalcheck is misleading on a number of levels. Some of what they issue isn’t certified and they charge you, in advance, for the certificate regardless of whether or not it’s there. (I know for a fact that mine wasn’t on there when I used the service, but thankfully I live 10 minutes from an issuing office.)

            Her family cannot use vitalcheck to request the certified copy for her- only she can. “Legal representatives must submit additional documentation justifying their need for copies of Pennsylvania birth certificates. Therefore, legal representatives are not eligible to order birth certificates online. ” (I do not have a link for that one, I had to get the information by going halfway through a request for MY certificate.). Family can only apply in person for a certified copy.

            Vitalcheck also requires that the form be mailed to the credit card billing address, so again- we must assume that she has a credit card and that her addy has been updated after her move. Regardless of how fast she files a change of addy form with all necessary parties, they still have to make the change in the system, so we hit another point of assumption.

            Unless you make assumptions about her family, health, finances, speed of address updates at the company end and other shit you personally know nothing about, that woman would have to go to PA to obtain a valid birth certificate. All you have given me are assumptions and they do not amount to proof of anything beyond your willingness to make assumptions. You have offered nothing that didn’t originate from your own imagination.

            Questioning someone’s willingness to jump through hoops is indeed besmirching them. You are questioning her character because she lost the right to vote when the law changed and she was unable to obtain paperwork to fix it. You made multiple assumptions that lay the blame at her feet and have gone so far as to moralize voter ID as a voting requirement.

            If you want to talk about the morality of Voter ID, do so- just drop the blame game. It requires you to make assumptions about people you know nothing about and in the end, reveals more about YOU through your projections than it does about the people you are “questioning”.

          • John Crawford

            No, I used the site provided by the poster. But thanks anyway, for the information.
            Semper fi

          • John Crawford

            BTW, your vocabulary and grammar skills are lacking. I’ve not blamed her for anything.
            Semper fi

          • George

            Yes you have. Repeatedly.

            Here’s one: “You say that’s not how its done, but has she tried? One doesn’t give up BEFORE trying!”

            And here’s another: “Adults are responsible for themselves…I don’t care if life is tough…It is tough for everyone.”

            There are other subtle bits of blame – all astoundingly passive-agressive in tone – like this one:
            “I trust that this lovely lady has, by now, called or written to the county in PA where she was born. Presumably, she did that before writing her letter. So, her birth certificate should be on the way, and she’ll vote in the next election.”

            That is genius, Johnny. A passive-agressive masterwork. It should be studied in all the best psych programs.

          • John Crawford

            What words are synonymous with blame, in my writing?
            I love it when pretend psychologists try to diagnose people.
            Semper fi

          • George

            Yea!

          • John Crawford

            Having an ID to vote is no barrier. It is a civic duty, to ensure your vote always counts.
            Semper fi

          • George

            Also, we get you were in the corps, but it’s hard to trust or respect anyone who has to use a tag to advertize the fact.

            I’m proud of many things in my life, too, but I don’t need to sign off with making sure everyone in the wide world knows about them.

            I’m sorry. I truly am. I don’t mean to go on, but you managed to annoy me. People with no perspective do that.

            Ars gratia artis

          • George

            It’s a civic duty to make sure each citizen over eighteen gets a vote.

            Passing bogus laws requiring an ID- a specific ID, rather than, say a phone bill – is is a threat to the franchise.

          • John Crawford

            No, it isn’t. If they don’t wish to vote, or are too lazy, tough. This is America, and they don’t have to.
            Semper fi

          • George

            Then let’s make easily obtaining an ID a national priority. It is not a simple thing for lots of folks, ok? I don’t care what it looks like in the carefully labeled, hospital-cornered crevices of your mind. In reality, it is a messy business, getting an ID. Folks are poor – can’t pay fees or take the time off from work to stand in line for hours. Some folks don’t have all the prerequisite documentation – as is the case with our hero (eh, sorry…your kind of a traditionalist, aren’t you? “heroine”) above.

            The whole world doesn’t conform to the right angles upon which you’ve constructed your life.

            Again…Empathy.

          • John Crawford

            No, thanks. Parents are responsible for their children. Adults are responsible for themselves. Your statist views are repugnant, to me and to the Constitution. I don’t care if life is tough, don’t you get it. It is tough for everyone.
            Empathy is for priests.
            Semper fi

          • George

            Guy, we’re talking about a 100 yr old lady who was voting regularly before your mom was born. Painstakingly laying out all the stuff the (quite obviously) lazy, self-victimizing, sad, old broad COULD do in order to get her house in order is kind of beside the point. The actual point is she’d been voting since the first FDR administration without having to do all of those things, because no one should have to do all those things, because all those things are designed specifically to exclude voters from the exercising their franchise.

            How about you drive down to Texas, pick her up, measure out her meds, drive up to the Allegheny and stand in line with her for days and days while it all gets sorted. OK?

          • John Crawford

            Yep, my Mom was born 1922. Dad, 1918. So, not a lot of difference there. Mom’s eldest brother was born 1911. So, take your nonsense to someone who might be intimidated by a troll such as you.
            Semper fi

          • George

            Pal, by definition, you’re the one doing the trolling here. Let’s us keep that straight. Also, you can stop being a pedantic, stoggy little prig and get over yourself a bit. Instead of being such a literalist, aim for empathy. It may not make you any happier, but it’ll do wonders for the people around you.

            PS- I’ll bet you’re the guy who keeps extra packs of D batteries in every drawer in the house…just in case.

          • John Crawford

            By definition, anyone commenting here is trolling. That includes you.
            I don’t get over myself, any more than you get over yourself.
            Yes, I do keep batteries in the house. Why don’t you?
            Semper fi

        • George

          Also, look…I recognize that this story probably generates a little dissonance when sidled up against your broader world view, and hence the need for the contortions and gymnastics in keeping the blame for this thing squarely on the shoulders of this (very clearly) careless centenarian, but you can’t make it better with semantics.

          The 15th amendment states that the right to vote, shall not be “denied or abridged on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.” While voter ID laws aren’t mentioned directly (hard to believe, right?), you can bet the wise souls who wrote that passage would think such laws hover right on the knife’s edge of abridgment.

          So can we please drop all the nonsense about birth certificates and social security cards? I bet you were a proud soldier. How can you feel proud knowing the country you served to keep free is needlessly – and for political expediency – curtailing the franchise for many of its citizens? Stop twisting yourself in a pretzel and stand up for universal suffrage already. What could be more american? Geez.

          And yes, maybe you’ve noticed but, in this particular comment thread (Wonkette doesn’t allow comments, BTW), I’ve decided to make you my personal project.

          Ars gratia artis

          • John Crawford

            Yep, the Amendment says that. Nowhere does it say that the States lose their Power to set conditions as they wish, to ensure honesty and fairness. And no, I don’t think the men who wrote it would agree with you. They wrote it specifically to prevent poll taxes and to ensure that all people can vote. Not everyone had ID then. Not every locality issued ID. That is not the case now.
            ID is too easy to get. So far, all you Leftists have is some 100 year old folks who’ve lost their ID’s. That means you tried your darndest to keep this fraud going on, but you’re losing, particularly as states realize its a fraud.
            Semper fi

          • George

            See, the point is, requiring a state ID is tantamount to a poll tax.

            Never mind.

            Why are the people jumping up and down, screaming at the top of their lungs about being americans always so sure there’s only one way to be american – their way.

            You know nothing about life. Life requires taking a broader view. You’ve learned nothing in all your years, and it’s more than a little sad.

            I’m going to leave you alone now. It’s clear the world is too big, too unwieldy for you. It scares you a bit, doesn’t it? So you attack, try to restrict anything outside the margins as you understand them.

            I’m sorry for you, and for anyone you’ve passed that world view on to…hell, anyone you’ve inflicted it on. It’s abusive. It’s so rigid. It’s no way to live in this modern world.

          • John Crawford

            Nonsense! There are no former slaves, living. They are who the 15th was passed to protect. EVERYONE alive needs ID, for one reason or another. Asking it to be presented is onerous ONLY to you Leftists who want to be able to pack the ballot boxes with illegal votes!
            Life is what you live. Narrowly, or broadly, only by living it have you any knowledge. One can read all one likes, but only life truly teaches. Having lived in, or visited, all the continents but Africa, my life is pretty broad, and my views come from a lifetime of travel and military service. Neither the world, nor you, could possibly scare me.
            Semper fi

          • George

            You never really “visited” all those places, did you? I mean, maybe from within the confines of your military service, but that doesn’t lend itself to going out amongst the people. Just the opposite, really. It’s exclusionary. It doesn’t expand your POV.

            And again, what illegal ballots? Empirical evidence, please. I suppose it’s that really crafty, invisible, super-villan level fraud; the kind ‘they’ use to cheat the welfare system, and get all those filet mignon-buying food stamps, but remains imperceptible to every attempt to uncover or quantify.

            Or is it just like climate change? Where all those grifting scientists are grifting the heck out of all that grift, but no one has ever uncovered any evidence of it anywhere, but Real Americans like you, John, know in their hearts is happening because it’s so obvious. It must be that kind of fraud!

            And yes, you are scared.

          • John Crawford

            What illegal ballots? The ones reported by the media, those illegal ballots. You make a big deal about how every Americans vote must be counted, but don’t care when an Americans vote is defrauded. How does that work for you?
            And yes, when I have served overseas, I have been “among” the people of those countries. Did you think we live in sequestered communities? If so, you know nothing about military service!
            Semper fi

          • John Crawford

            As for climate change, it ALWAYS changes.
            Semper fi

          • George

            Yes. It gets warmer.

          • John Crawford

            No, it doesn’t get warmer. You really should do some research.
            Semper fi

          • George

            What fraud? Point me to the fraud. If you do, you’ll succeed where all the GOP legislatures have failed. They can find no significant fraud and, of the fraud that has been identified, none of it would have been prevented by photo ID’s.

            Just show us the widespread, institutionalized fraud and we’ll all shut up. Hell, we’ll HELP you with the ID thing. Just point us to the fraud. We all want fair elections, it’s just that some of us think the system is healthiest when it is most inclusive – when as many voices are heard as is possible – and some of us are scared of black people.

          • John Crawford
          • alnnc

            Dig a little deeper into claims from those articles and you will see that in virtually every case, allegations of hundreds of fraud cases are suggested but very few proven. The GOP is really good at the “couldas”, but even when leading investigations, find few actual cases of fraud. And the ones they do find would not have been prevented by requiring an ID. Many involve felons unaware they cannot vote, and they have IDs. How many people notify their old election board they moved? But that is a biggie in claims of hundreds of thousands of illegal votes because people are registered in more than one district. An ID will not prevent that, and double voting can be easily detected in an nvestigation. I can’t buy a million dollar yacht because I bought a lottery ticket and coulda won 200 million. Almost all of the coulda committed voter fraud are in the same category. Why would anyone suggest it is right to disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of legal voters to catch a handful of fraudulent voters?

          • John Crawford

            Proved requires a trial! And you saw several pleas of guilty, and one trial conviction.
            Semper fi

          • George

            I didn’t. Did you read a different edit of the article? Sorta like an old US v UK Rock LP? Different tracks included?

          • John Crawford

            I posted several links. At least one is a guilty plea. Another saw guilty verdicts.
            Semper fi

          • George

            Seriously, John?? These are reports from the backwoods forests of the wackadoodles. The gateway pundit? WPRI??? Citizen Review??? These aren’t reports so much as cautionary tales about keeping up with your meds.

            Try this:
            http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/07/09/7-papers-4-government-inquiries-2-news-investigations-and-1-court-ruling-proving-voter-fraud-is-mostly-a-myth/

            or this:
            https://www.brennancenter.org/issues/voter-fraud

            or this:
            http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnwasik/2012/11/06/voter-fraud-a-massive-anti-democratic-deception/

            Here’s my google search, while we’re at it:
            https://www.google.com/#q=government+research+into+voter+fraud

            And good luck arguing that Forbes and The Washington Post are liberal rags. So you show up on the ball field challenging me to a game. Only you show up with the Charelston H.S. Mud Hens and I roll out the St Louis Cardinals. That ain’t a fight. You will lose with that line up every time.

            Once more, there is no voter fraud except in the fever dreams of sad, old white supremacists and the people who love them.

          • John Crawford

            I stopped at the Post. Did you notice that they confirm that voter fraud is real, and substantiated? Likely not. I’d bet you went for the headlines only!
            Semper fi

          • George

            No. I read the articles. I’m not so sure you did though, as it doesn’t substantiate your over the top fears about rampant voter fraud. It repudiates them. It says that there is very little voter fraud and, of the voter fraud that does exist, they can’t see how voter I.D. cards would make any difference. Your inability to see beyond what you want to see here is staggering.

            Add to this your short thesis on climate change and you, sir, become a walking list of bullet points for the standard issue denialist theories of the FOX news base – otherwise known as the least informed news consumers in the free world:

            http://www.businessinsider.com/study-watching-fox-news-makes-you-less-informed-than-watching-no-news-at-all-2012-5

          • John Crawford

            You Leftists are fond of asserting your correctness with a phrase that goes something like, “if it saves one life…”, or “if only one person is saved…”.
            Well, here it is the vote of every single American citizen. If only ONE American’s vote is negated by fraud, then ID must be demanded!
            The Post asserts that vote fraud is very real. The Left again speaks of actual votes, but what of the attempts? We have no idea of the attempts. We have no idea what votes may actually have been unlawfully cast.
            It is YOU who are in denial. Your own citations show that it is real, and yet you deny them while using them to verify your assertions. That is schizophrenia, on display.
            Semper fi

          • George

            “The Left again speaks of actual votes, but what of the attempts? We have no idea of the attempts. We have no idea what votes may actually have been unlawfully cast.”

            HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!

            This is the most beautifully stated encapsulation of the rabid right-wing id. Stephen Colbert couldn’t have done it any better.

            Absolutely, yes! We need to be stand up against all the things that haven’t happened, but someday may! Just like all those communists we caught running around in the State Dept, and Hollywood, and the army! Yes, we should should clamp down on the freedoms in the name of freedom! Burn the Bill of Rights because our rights are under attack…possibly. I mean, you never know. Someday probably. Could be muslims…or commies. Or the geys!!!!! Or black people walking around in neighborhoods.

            Point is, you never know about the REAL motives behind a bag of skittles, amirite?

            You need a tv show, man. I’d watch!

          • John Crawford

            Please tell me what freedom is curtailed by requiring ID. None whatsoever. If you want to bring up the extremely old, take them to the courthouse and help them get ID. Vanishingly few people have no government issued ID.
            If you see one cockroach, there are ALWAYS others unseen. So, you spray. Your analogy actually works in my favor.
            As for skittles, you are wrong. They have no motives, being inanimate objects.
            Semper fi

          • George

            Access to the franchise is made much more difficult with an ID requirement. The bar is set higher than it needs to be. And that’s by design. Your arguments are the ones that were made by the old racists in Alabama and Mississippi, etc who had put, among other obstacles to the vote, literacy tests in place. Their argument was, the tests are rudimentary and access to education is everywhere, so it’s the fault of the individual if they can’t read.

            Fine. It’s more complicated than that, but fine. It’s still beside the point. The tests had one purpose: make it harder for minorities to vote, to be represented. That is the point of ID laws all over the country and everyone knows it. The only reason the law was shot down in PA is that a top republican operative was caught on tape admitting it was to keep minorities – who tend to vote democrat – away from the polls.

            There is no other reason for it, John.

            But you won’t care, and I kind of envy you for it. You see the world in very clear terms: Black and white, don’t you? It’s all so…certain. It’s all so inevitable. There is a right way (to which you regularly – and very coincidentally – subscribe) and a wrong way (with which you regularly – and very coincidentally – disagree). It’s authoritarian. It’s an extremely conservative POV. But ok.

            I AM a liberal, John. I see more complexity in the human condition; more shades of grey. More room for varying points-of-veiw. It is a tiring position to maintain, and there is very little certainty in it.

            But “Liberal,” “Progressive.” These are labels you like to mock. Again, fine. But it’s the people to whom those labels apply who did most of the good in this country. They moved us forward. One man, one vote. Emancipation. Universal Sufferage. Universal education. Child-labor laws. Workers’ rights. Food safety. Water safety. They said old people didn’t have to die in the streets or be undo burdens on others. They passed civil rights legislation. Now health care, and soon, expansion of guaranteed education into jr college.

            Most of the music this country made, which has spread across the world – jazz, blues, rock, rap – was mostly made by liberal-minded people. Most of the tech you rely on every day, as well, many of the other scientific advances you benefit from (and the federal funding for them) are made possible mostly by people who identify as liberal or progressive.

            You may have protected this country, but what you were busy protecting was created by a progressive spirit…all the way back to the Founders, the memory of you people seems so content to want to bludgeon us with.

            So, in conclusion, you’re fucking welcome.

          • John Crawford

            How many states have an ID requirement, do you know? Name a person that hasn’t been able to obtain an ID. Your arguments are purely racist, arguing that minorities are neither smart enough, or capable enough, to obtain a birth certificate. This isn’t the 20’s, when people had no transportation, and not a lot of education.
            It is you seeing black and white, not I. You see that minorities are incapable of taking care of themselves, so you maintain your plantation-master mentality over them. I see that minorities are more than sufficiently capable, but must be cut loose from the plantation in order to realize it.
            Your version of Liberal, pure racism, has zero to do with classic Liberalism, which believed in the ability of the individual to elevate him/herself above hardship. Your version is statism, which requires that the “little people” be protected from themselves, for the good of the state!
            Semper fi

          • George

            ” Name a person that hasn’t been able to obtain an ID. ”

            HA HA HA HA HA!!!! Ummm….101 year old Mary Lou Miller? Perhaps? The reason we are all here in this endless comments thread? Remember?

            Seriously, John. A TV show!

            As for the rest, you make my case better than I ever could. I never mentioned plantations or minorities not being able to take care of themselves. I said white, old, asshats, like you, have been busy stacking the deck against non-white, old asshat people since the beginning of time and maybe you should think about stopping that any time now please.

            But, guy, can I just say, you are a treat. Really and truly, thank you.

          • John Crawford

            101 year old Mary Lou Miller has had 20 years to get an ID! Or more. As was pointed out in this thread, she didn’t try to get hold of the PA offices in her county of birth. Nor, apparently, did she try to get any family members to help, as allowed by PA law.
            So no, she hasn’t NOT been able to obtain ID.
            Semper fi

          • George

            HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!

            Thought you weren’t blaming her? No language of blame anywhere. Your words. Remember? You sounded so superior.

            Now I’m just wasting my time. I smoked you out enough. It was fun. And a bit sad. Goodbye, friend. Maybe we’ll meet again. But will I recognize you without the white hood? Who knows?

          • John Crawford

            Obviously, you and I have a different definition of “blame”. If she misses a doctor’s appointment she is to blame. If she neglects to turn off her stove and burns the house down, she is to blame. If she needs an ID, as do all Americans, and neglects to obtain it, that is her fault as well. Neither you, nor I, are responsible for her.
            And yes, I put no blame on her in previous comments. I do now!
            Semper fi

      • John Crawford

        Come to think of it, she almost certainly had to have a birth certificate at one time. The SSA used to require birth certs., in order to get a card. Now, a couple of other items are authorized to qualify, but birth certificate is still the surest. I’ll bet she has a social security card, as she indicated.
        Semper fi

        • Kat Anyperson

          That’s not how numbers were assigned when the New Deal implemented em, sunshine. http://www.ssa.gov/history/ssn/firstcard.html

          This link includes scans of the original forms.
          http://www.ssa.gov/history/ssn/ssnforms.html
          On them, they ask for location of birth, but no birth certificate.

          • John Crawford

            You’re right. When implemented, the law didn’t require children to be issued numbers. When I got mine, I was 10, and travelling overseas with my Air Force stepfather. Otherwise, I likely wouldn’t have gotten it until 18. They required a birth certificate.
            Semper fi

      • D_C_Wilson

        Yep. Good ole rural Pennsyltucky.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZvT2r828QY

    • Obvious concern troll is obvious.
      Futue te et caballum tuum

      • John Crawford

        Not bad. Insults in latin, no matter how juvenile, are appreciated.
        Semper fi

    • Jojo Poe

      I hope that you personally follow up on this issue. If it has not arrived in the mail by now, I assume that you will personally drive her to her birthplace in Pennsylvania and obtain her missing birth certificate? As you say, getting hold of one should be simple for anyone born in the U.S.

      • John Crawford

        Not being family, I cannot help. But, should you discover how non-family might assist, I’ll do what I can.
        Semper fi

        • George

          you’ve done quite enough already, thanks.

          • John Crawford

            Why, you’re quite welcome.
            Semper fi

        • unclemike

          Is it against the law to help out people to whom you’re not related?

          • John Crawford

            The PA law makes no allowance for non-family, except a designated representative, which I take to mean lawyer. As for other assistance, anyone living near the lady probably does help her, regularly.
            Semper fi

  • Lord-Nash

    “We’ve found voter fraud!” -Texas

  • handyhippie65

    the only voter fraud i see here was perpetrated against someone who has been voting longer that most of the fraudsters in the tex-ass state government.

  • thiskissbelongstome

    My mom isn’t quit 100, but she was born at home in Pennsylvania.Her birth certificate is a handwritten note from a doctor. Thankfully she has a driver’s license for when our stupid governor passes a law like this.

  • Jerry Noneofyourbizz

    Kinda like this?

  • Theodora30

    Why is there no national effort by Democrats to make sure everyone has an ID? I would rather give money to that right now than to the DNC or any specific candidate. If the base can’t vote that $$$ will be wasted.

  • Dylan Black

    The irony that so-called CONSERVATIVES are super happy to have the government tag and ID its citizens more than it already has, just to rig elections in their favor, is not lost on me.

  • SadDemInTex

    I registered voters here….now I’m going to throw something against the wall

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