Yeah! I bet most of our dogs know it too!Marist University saw that the Fourth of July was coming up and decided to commission a poll to show how stupid we all are. The question: “From which country did the United States win its independence?” Marist was surely expecting only 2% of Americans to know the answer. was also prepared for the results with a “more than 1 in TK Americans don’t know which country America declared its independence from, the dumb freaks” story. Yet America surprised them all! SEVENTY-FOUR PERCENT OF US know the answer to the question! USA! USA! USA!

How can CNN honestly still present this cynically as an Americans-are-stupid-fucks story? This is an AMAZING result. Consider that a good 10% of Americans probably have Alzheimer’s. Then another 5% are just regular crazy people. And probably 11% of Americans got offended that some annoying academic called them up during dinner to ask them this single, inane question and answered “the United States won its independence from the country of My Ass.”


Sure, only an Alvin Greene majority, 60%, of adults aged 18 to 29, our country’s future, answered it correctly. But an Alvin Greene majority is still a landslide. And yes, only 67% of women got it right, compared to 81% of men, but that’s understandable because it’s well-known science that women have less mental capacity for patriotism.

This is absolutely stunning. Americans hate being learned, yet the U.S. has somehow gotten most of its citizens to learn a historical factoid that is not celebrity-related. When you read stories about people dying this weekend in fireworks accidents, don’t get cynical. Remember this poll. And wave that flag.

(And for those who don’t know, America won its independence from a country called “Al Qaeda.”) [Marist University/Political Ticker]

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  1. It’s a good thing we beat those British poofs or we’d all be speaking English today. And writing U’s where they don’t beloung. Also be gay.

  2. American women are obviously MORE pariotic than American men, because they only have room for one nation’s name inside their tiny little pea brains: “‘Merka!”

    That’s solid science, y’all.

  3. we never really won independence . all smoke and mirrors . and great britain was the tool of the german royal line , so the nazis won . and teabaggers .

  4. And the highlight of the weekend will be watching Joey Chestnutt make history by gorging himself on over 70 hot dogs in 10 minutes in the Nathan’s Famous Hot Dog Eating Contest on Coney Island. (12 noon on ESPN 7/4/10)
    Now that’s American Exceptionalism that we can believe in!

  5. “Consider that a good 10% of Americans probably have Alzheimer’s. Then another 5% are just regular crazy people.”

    34% think that Sarah Palin is fit to serve as President of the United States. Your numbers don’t add up I’m afraid.

  6. Now ask what nationality the white people were at the first Thanksgiving. More than fiddy on that one, and I’ll re-evaluate my opinion re teh dumnes.

  7. Great Britain is not a country so we never gained independence from it. We gained independence from The United Kingdom. Great Britain is an island.

  8. I smell a trick question. Does “England” count the same as “Great Britain” and “United Kingdom,” or are two of those three considered wrong answers?

    Lies, damned lies and statistics.

  9. Hell yeah, Canadia can go suck it. We totally pwned their sorry tulip-loving asses in whenever the fuck that was–1815? Whatever, numbers are gay. The point is: USA! USA! USA!

  10. [re=611318]gurukalehuru[/re]: Beer, Cheetos, beer, potato salad, beer, jello salad, beer, hamburgers, beer, fireworks. Oh, did I mention beer?

  11. Also considering that Texans and Mexicans would say Spain (or France, which is not altogether incorrect) and Alaskans should say Russia, the 74-percent figure may include people who had it wrong.

  12. No celebs in the Revolution? Whaddya talking about? What about Ben Franklin, “the only president of the United States who was never president of the United States”? And the wingnuts whoare so fond of quoting Thomas Jefferson saying “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots…” never notice that Jefferson kept himself and his 200 slaves very far from the forward edge of the battle area during the revolution he fomented.

    This makes no sense, I know, but I’m still reeling from Sara’s delicious ramble.

  13. Other countries named included France, Japan, Mexico, Spain and China.

    Actually, some of those answers (France, Mexico, Spain) are arguably true for some states. Partial credit!

  14. Ak-u-ally —

    The correct answer would be “Kingdom of Great Britain,” which came into existence in 1707 under the Acts of Union passed by the Parliaments of England and Scotland.

    The “United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland” didn’t come into existence until 1800, with the Act of Union.

    Which is why, of course, the Declaration makes references to “Great Britain” and the “British Crown,” not the UK, etc.

    [But if you flip it over, there are a bunch of notes, in Jefferson’s hand, about those “motherfuckers at British Petroleum.” Go figure.

    ASSHOLE Endowed Chair of History and Exploding Things
    Some Community College In The Middle Of Nowhere

  15. At first glance I thought it said Marxist University, so I know it’s time for some serious holiday weekending. Happy Fourth, everyone!

    And thanks to Thomas Jefferson for catching “subjects” in time to change it to “citizens.” It’s good to know even he had brain farts.

  16. Ha, ha, Russians are stupider than we are. (Well, except for the reclusive Poincaré-conjecture-proving geniuses.) Not only do their “spies” con them out of thousands of dollars in exchange for info that can be clipped from newspapers, but also:

    MOSCOW (Reuters Life!) – Eight percent of Russians believe their national team will win the World Cup, despite the fact that it never qualified for the tournament, an independent poll has showed.

    Of course, Putin has apparently continued on as president even though he couldn’t run for reelection, so I suppose I can see where they’re coming from on this.

  17. [re=611354]ella[/re]: Yeah, I made the same mistake once, thinking my parents were sending me to be educated by the “Marxist Brothers”. I was expecting to read Capital and learn how to make Molotov’s, instead I got the Bible, the belt and was serially molested.

  18. More Americans know the very important date of Sinco Day Mayo, when we won our independence from Mexico. (Hint: It’s September 11.)

  19. As the Alvin Green Sutra would say, “It [an Alvin Greene majority] is still a landslide insofar as it is not a landslide. Thus it can be considered a landslide.”

  20. Not celebrity related to the editor, maybe, but for those of us who are devoted to the awesomeness of Paul Giamatti, this is hawt!!

  21. [re=611303]just pixels[/re]: And my favorite: saying leftenent. And . . .time to leave this one before we get to the warm beer.

  22. We in Alabama won our independence in 1861 but, due to unavoidable turns of events, have lived under an occupation since 1865…

  23. The British sent too few troops to hold on to their possessions over here (they were kind of busy in other places), paid too little attention to the job at hand and the American colonies ended up being their ‘Vietnam.’ Other than that, we could have ended up driving on the left side of the road.

  24. Trump ’em and stump ’em, that’s Wonkette style. Republicans and assorted haters across the internet were rubbing their hands together waiting for Wonkette to post some doom and gloom, anti-patriotic message. But instead they got this fine story and commentary. Ha! How does that British song go, “…confound their politics, make fun of their toupees and shit…” la-la-la-la. Yeah!

  25. [re=611353]Neilist[/re]: FWIW, the Marist results table shows the 74% winners’ answer as “Great Britain”. I’m guessing they included “England”, “UK”, “Britain”, “the Pommies”, etc. If they had asked me, I would have had to reply “whatever was the name in 1776 of the monarchy that eventually turned into the UK”, because I can never remember all the name changes.

    As a not too aside: 26% don’t know, or know wrong. This is one of the most depressing things I’ve heard in a long time. Not batshit-seven-mountains scary, or hey-why-not-help-the-rich-get-richer disgusting, or we’re-the-cops-we-can-beat-or-shoot-you-and-be-home-in-time-for-dinner appalling. Just depressing.

  26. [re=611425]Enslave the Whales[/re]: Hey, don’t get so depressed! At least it wasn’t a two part question “Is the United States an independent country or a colony of a foreign nation?”

  27. Everybody knows it was France cause, don’t you know, if we didn’t, we’d be eatin’ that gosh darn foye grass with smelly red wine at 600 francs a bottle -they don’t have greenbacks, you betcha – and we’d all be goin’ to Sunday mass seven days, 47 weeks a year. You think them Frenchies would defend us when I can see Putin rearing his ugly head from the Alaska National Wildfire Islands whatever when they could be eatin’ freedom fries with mayonaise? Wink.

  28. [re=611387]DustBowlBlues[/re]: The worst has got to be how they pronounce the name of a small Central American country that’s never done anything to annoy the Kingdom:


    I’m still surprised that after the toppled Somoza, the Sandinistas didn’t immediately set up urban guerrilla cells in Liverpool and Chelsea.

  29. “…a good 10% of Americans probably have Alzheimer’s” blah blah.

    It was the kids (60%) that brought the average down. Little fuckers.

  30. [re=611434]Aurelio[/re]: No, er, if I understand you correctly. I think you’re referring to the ostentatious gringo-speak that says, “Ah, you philistine. People who KNOW these things say Nicarrr-agua.” Yes?

    I’m talking about the uniquely British way of pronouncing the country’s name: NICK-AH-RAG-YEW-A, with the rag being equivalent to a work be Scott Joplin and the yew being the same as the tree. Seriously, it’s a linguistic war crime.

  31. [re=611318]gurukalehuru[/re]: Less than 3/4ths of Americans know what the fuck July the 4th is all about.

    Well come on — 2,000 years ago we had SPQR. Now we have USA. For some reason we’re only capable of remembering 75% of what we used to be able to remember. And 74% is well within the margin of error. So this isn’t a big deal — it’s just another step in our fat, drunken, armed-to-the-teeth, whoremongering, greedy, thoughtless, cheetah-steak-eating romp through history.

  32. 74 Per Cent! 74, 74, 74 Fuckin’ Goddam Per Cent, you Dudes and Dudettes!

    However, that percent included all Ruskie sleeper spies in the U.S., about 82 million, who answered the question correcto mundo. Seems that knowledge is just another unfair advantage of a foreign education.

  33. Yeah, how many Texans were polled? Cuz you know they sure as shit answered “Mexico.” Happy 4th and cold Shiner beers, y’all!

  34. Oh, let’s not forget Russia — some of America declared its independence as a result of Seward’s Folly. And let’s not forget all those people who were here first who we — um — liberated from their own independence. I’m sure they’ll thank us in heaven for bringing them knowledge of The LORD before we exterminated them.

  35. Seeing it in print doesn’t have the same impact, but listen for how the Brits pronounce the word ” controversy “….always entertaining to this set of American ears.

  36. They was Germans at Trenton…German transvestites…He/She’uns.
    General George and the Continental army rode across the Delaware on a squadron of freedom lovin’ whales and surprised them dirty ol’ He/She’uns right there in the middle of their geh pride parade. General George had the whales flip a bunch of fire crackers wayyyy up in the air with their tails, and when the he/she’uns was lookin’ up (well, at least the ones who weren’t havin’ the buttsecks at that very moment) he stole their white wine spritzers and coke. They was so demoralized that they surrendered on the spot.
    That’s why we celebrate with fireworks to this day, ‘specially since we had to rend those freedom lovin’ whales for blubber and ambergris during that bitter winter at Valley Forge (fuck ’em, they’s just fish).

  37. [re=611436]user-of-owls[/re]: Remember, these are the same assholes that drive around in “JAG-yew-arr” freakin’ “motorcars.” They just don’t know how to talk good.

  38. It is stunning that Marist University found the fortitude to speak the unspeakable, and break these polling results down by gender.

  39. [re=611453]sanantonerose[/re]: It’s pretty funny: all those nativist paranoid conspiracy theories about a “Reconquista” happening suddenly makes a lot of sense, when you realize that having a bunch of people emigrate and re-settle en masse, then overthrowing local government because you don’t like one of its policies (say, for example, that slavery’s prohibited), and then re-joining your home country, is basically how Texas happened in the first place.

    Doesn’t make them right, of course, but “severe projection” certainly sounds about right.

  40. There was a point when Mexico had a fair amount of money because of sweet sweet oil. We should have sold Texas back to them then. We probably could have gotten gotten back what we originally spent on Alaska.

  41. Only 84% of pathetic East Coast elitists knew the correct answer, while a overwhelming 68% of Real Americans in Real America (the South) knew out of which European power’s birth canal America came out of.

  42. [re=611436]user-of-owls[/re]: Please remember that Reagan’s own Director of Central Intelligence pronounced it as Nic-ah-wawa. That was a linguistic war crime. And he was a genuine war criminal.

  43. Oh for Gawd’s sake, don’t mention The War!

    And Jack, I want you to know, I read this last night, and I’ve been laughing about “and answered ‘the United States won its independence from the country of My Ass'” periodically ever since,” and I’m still completely sober, and not at all stoned.

  44. My dog knows it’s the 4th when the mouth-breathers down the block start blowing shit up around midnight tonight. She’ll spend the weekend under the basement stairs. She hates America.

  45. [re=611494]North of Moscow[/re]: You mean Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis, right? Were Frank and Sammy anywhere near when that happened? Just curious.

  46. Southern “He/She” Belles like Lindsey, Foley and Sanford will have some fireworks of their own, up the Appalachien Trail. Fergit da beer, they’ll have Cabernet ’77 ans Arcata Sensamilla ’10, y’all.
    Then blow up Fort Sumptah.

  47. If you had a History Degree from Beck U., you would know that July 4th represents the day that Ayn Rand liberated us from the Soviet Union and their puppet FDR in 1944.

    It is not the fault of the 24% of us that know the truth that teachers and the media allowed Woodrow Wilson to re-write our history and Obama’s birth certificate.

  48. ONE YEAR AGO TODAY! Sarah Palin courageously quit her job as Governor of Alaska to travel our land (in private jets) bringing forth hope for freedom and red high heels. Such as her latest speech at the International Bowl Expo:

    Palin recalled her youth when her father set pins in Idaho. “My Dad was on a Thursday night bowling league,” she said. “He bonded with his buddies. I have memories of that point of my life which mean very, very much to me.”

    Palin was three months old when the family moved from Idaho.

  49. [re=611432]user-of-owls[/re]: I love how they hate on the French by saying: FIL-leht.
    Once, I received a quizzical look from a waiter in London when I ordered a Dubonnet (DOO-bah-ney). “Oh,” he said, “you want a Dew-BAHN-eht!”

  50. But I hate how they mangle the good Queen’s English–it’s literally, not “li-trally” and “whilst” went out of style in the 18th century. Stop murdering the ‘murikan language!

  51. [re=611517]chascates[/re]: Leave Sarah alone! She had to quit. It was Alaska’s fault for not having “a national level your Department of Law there in the White House would look at some of the things that we’ve been charged with and automatically throw them out.” And this is why she will be our President of Gibberish FOREVER.

  52. [re=611354]ella[/re]: An early draft of the Declaration also contains a reference to the weather in the summer of 1776: “Bloody hell! It’s fucking hot!”

  53. [re=611518]DemmeFatale[/re]: Equal parts annoying and downright wierd. Was in Englad a couple weeks back and saw signs around Heathrow for a nearby town called Slough. So that’s ‘sluff’? ‘Slau’? ‘Slow’? Was damned if I was gonna ask anyone.

    Also, I’m pretty sure they’ve handed control of the NHS over to JK Rowling. Went to a small clinic in East Anglia and there was a window for the woman in charge of “Pills and Potions.”

  54. [re=611517]chascates[/re]: Perhaps Sarah has a reverse memory where she can only remember/understand information from her infancy, and nothing beyond that.

  55. [re=611460]dijetlo[/re]: that was inspired. history the way it should be taught, full of fancy and laced with psychotropics.

  56. [re=611432]user-of-owls[/re]: [re=611518]DemmeFatale[/re]: [re=611434]Aurelio[/re]:
    In Tejas Air France spent months trying to train their agents to say Ahyrre Frahnce with properly rolled Rs, but they weren’t able to get rid of the “ken I hep ya?” that followed.

    O/T but we haz sum trolls on an earlier post

  57. [re=611529]RoscoePColtraine[/re]: Oh no, thank you old thing. Terribly allergic, you see. Had a bit of boisenbree jam on a biscuit with my cuppa a fortnight ago and wound up in hospital. Dreadful thing that.

  58. bloody hell, in the course of human events it becomes necessary to grab a spanner and pop the bonnet, then it’s bangers and mash and off to the loo. god save the queens!

    pop! pop! pow-pow-pow-pop-poppopopopopopop, pop! pow!


  59. [re=611517]chascates[/re]: Did she also rail against the Brunswick corporation for putting all those hard-working Merkins out of work?
    I’ve got 10 or so years on $arah, and I don’t think my father was old enough to be a pin-setter.

  60. I love Steele’s rebranding of Afghanistan as “a war of Obama’s choosing. This is not something the United States had actively prosecuted or wanted to engage in.”

    A. headache. can’t think.
    B. It was a war of Bush’s, and “we” love everything Bush did. (except attempted Mexican Amnesty, maybe)
    C. It wasn’t of Bush’s choosing, really. The people who literally attacked us, were literally there and being sheltered by a disgusting government.
    D. “We” did actively prosecute it…I mean…er…see your first sentence…also, see the reason you are opening your mouth in the first place? (…?)
    E. “We” (and we) very much wanted to engage in it. And basically the whole world from Syria, to Cuba, to England, said “Yes, you should go over there and fuck up those cave-dwelling douche hats.
    F. “We” love wars, all wars. We have stockpiles of bombs and scads of planes and pilots and soldiers, and we want to blow shit up. May I venture to say, especially Republicans. P.S. You are the figurehead/fountainhead of the Republican party. Maybe your point is the Continuation of the war is of Obama’s owning choosing. I guess you’re right. P.S. This is the only desision of the Obama admin that Republicans approve of.
    G. “We” love Petraeus (and all soldiers and generals etc), and Petraeus is now in charge of Afghanistan.
    H. Obama’s admin has been hinting at a draw-down next year. It is your job to be bitching about THAT. If you don’t feel like it, become a Democrat like EVERY OTHER BLACK PERSON. Now, when “they” make more definite statements about the draw-down, you won’t be able to bitch about it. I mean, you will, but you will look silly. God forbid.

  61. [re=611558]AKAM80TheWolf[/re]: What the…SLAU?!1 As PJ O’Rourke once wrote, what the fuck? What the fucking fuck?

    Christ, now I need a potion.

  62. To all you Wonkateers with the explosive wit across the sky…My July 4th greetings…
    (And if any one of you cultural geniuses knows this reference, Dr. Radio will take care of you!)


  63. [re=611565]Radiotherapy[/re]: Oh god. It’s not nice to tease a middle-aged man with prepubescent cheerleader memories. The last thing I need is friggin’ Chris Hansen showing up on my doorstep. Bad Radio, bad.

    Hope you enjoy watching the fireworks curl and loop through the sky. Like patriotic hookworms.

  64. I welcome Independence Day with the hopes of further thinning of America’s imbecilic herd through the lethal mix of alcohol, fuel-soaked beef, explosives, and firearms.

  65. [re=611557]NYNYNY[/re]:

    P.S. You are the figurehead/fountainhead of the Republican party.

    More like a hood ornament than a figurehead.

  66. Other favourites:

    Gloucester = GLOSSter (shout out to MA!)
    Worcester = WOOSter
    Southwark – SUTHerk
    Worcestershire = WOOStersheer
    Cholmondeley = CHUMlee

    There are many other reasons why English is my favorite language.

  67. Curiously, here in my suburban Ozarks neighborhood, Independence Day sounds suspiciously like 1980s Beirut. No car bombs yet, but the night is young.

  68. [re=611575]Lascauxcaveman[/re]:
    I suppose to be fair, one could point out some curiosities on Cape Cod:

    Chatham = Chat-um
    Eastham = East-ham

    Still, screw the fekkin’ Brits and up the Provos!

  69. [re=611578]imissopus[/re]:
    The best part of the article is the end.
    Police say another person at the party also was taken to a hospital, but it’s unclear why.
    I’m hoping to see an update that states he was punched in the balls by the flying severed arm.

  70. [re=611557]NYNYNY[/re]: Steele is a douchebag, a cunt, a prick, a fucking clown, a whore, an asshole, a putz, a schmuck, a slimeball, a dirtbag, a cocksucker, a bootlicker, an asslicker, a Republican. Did I miss anything? Anyway, fuck him. It’s 4th of July.

  71. [re=611577]user-of-owls[/re]: Oh dear. Now I’m getting homesick for our old summer cottage on the Cape. No matter how accustomed I’ve become to living in California, there’s always something about New England that stays with you. Sigh.

    In my heart I still like to think of myself as that quiet, ultra-shy shut-in from Massachusetts who wrote poetry that moved that moved the world. Wait. That’s Emily Dickinson. Apparently, I’m someone else.

  72. [re=611577]user-of-owls[/re]: Cape Cod, you say? I spent a summer in Woods Hole (sort of like Army “Basic Training” for the geek set; basically how to set up microscopes and run experiments while drunk). The name that got me was Falmouth — Faaaaaaah-muth.

    That, and they had Scrod (Scraaaaaaaadhh) for dinner in the cafeteria every other night. The uneaten Scraaaaadh was apparently dumped into a vat of Elmer’s glue, and became “Seafood Newberg” the next night. If that didn’t clear out your colon, then nothing will.

  73. [re=611588]Joshua Norton[/re]: I sympathize. I’m not a New Englander but I spent a few summers at camp in the Berkshires and went to college in Baaaaaaah-ston. Still miss it, even though I’ve lived in SoCal for many years.

  74. [re=611365]Naked Bunny with a Whip[/re]: Here in Arizona, we celebrate Sinco Day Mayo every five days … by arresting Mexicans. They’re illegal because they don’t pray to Baby Jeebus in English.

  75. [re=611593]Jukesgrrl[/re]: I heard one of your tourists on the local “news” tonight. He was whining like a little spoiled twat “And see, we aren’t boycotting San Diego like you’re boycotting Arizona”

    San Diego didn’t have the balls to boycott Arizona because they feed off of semi-prosperous hot fat white folks that have just driven 8 hours through the desert looking for the nearest beach. They sort of half-assedly condemned the dumb zonies but then the zonies forgave them and took S.D. off the ‘reverse boycott’ list.

    Every meal that douche ate and every sheet or pillowcase he slept on was prepared by an illegal brown but that won’t stop him from speakin’ his mind!

  76. [re=611578]imissopus[/re]: JESUS! I wonder what kind of drugs these people were using??? It sounds like something you would do after you killed a 30 pack of bud lite lime.

  77. [re=611573]Joshua Norton[/re]: “P.S. You are the figurehead/fountainhead of the Republican party.

    More like a hood ornament than a figurehead.”

    Don’t you mean Lawn Jockey of the Republican Party?

  78. [re=611614]weejee[/re]: at the risk of overstating the obvious, mas quantities of the former and the scale of the stunt inversely proportional to er, eh, shall we say size, on the second.

  79. [re=611557]NYNYNY[/re]: steele’s idiotic remarks may get him thrown under the bus. senator mccain was rooting around in his shed yesterday, looking for a pack of sparklers, when he found his backbone, which had been missing since a gang of mischievous wingnuts hid it from him almost two years ago.

    “There’s no excuse” for the remarks, said McCain. “We need to get everybody behind this effort, because it’s America’s war. It’s not Bush’s war, it’s not Obama’s war, it’s America’s war, and we can’t afford to fail.” (story at

    yep, it’s our war, you can do a blood test and see that it’s ours, and anyway, it has our smile. whether or not we can afford to fail has no discernible causal connection to whether or not we will fail, but to quote or paraphrase or somewhat mangle the words of our greatest president, benjamin franklin, we shall all hang together because it’s more efficient than hanging us all separately.

    happy fourth!

  80. [re=611588]Joshua Norton[/re]: [re=611590]Sparky McGruff[/re]: [re=611612]Cape Clod[/re]: Spent at least a couple weeks in Eastham (East-HAM) every summer of my life starting when I was like 6 months old and I pine for Cooks Brook Beach every summer from here in the Ozarks. Get a small fix by looking at the webcams on, especially enjoying the Commercial Street cam in P-town. Fond older memories of getting shellacked at bars blaring Judy Garland and then navigating the death trap that is Route Six back home.

    And not to rub it in, but I’m heading back in August for 10 days. I can already taste the steam-ahs at Rookies and smell the stink of low tide. Ahhh.

  81. Oh, almost forgot another charming idiosyncrasy. Wanna find out if someone actually knows the Cape? Ask which is the Lower vs. Upper (or Inner vs. Outer) Cape. Make sure you show them a map to really make it tricky.

  82. Happy 4th, wonketteers! I hope you all have a fun-filled day today. Remember to stay safe. Bottle rockets and firecrackers are dangerous — even illegal in some of the more nanny states. Sparklers should be fine. Baked beans and deviled eggs are somewhere in between. Best to have adult supervision around these foods just in case.

  83. [re=611620]slappypaddy[/re]: Did you see this bit in that article: “McCain also said that for all the challenges faced in the Afghan war, now in its ninth year, the situation isn’t as bad as it was in Iraq in 2006, before a surge in U.S. troops there helped stabilize security, heading off a potential civil war.”

    Oh great — the situation in Afghanistan after the additional 30,000 troops were sent in isn’t as bad as Iraq before its surge. I’m not sure that’s quite as reassuring as McCain thought it would be. Fortunately, as we found out in the 2008 election campaign, pronouncements by McCain on geopolitical matters aren’t necessarily a reflection of the facts.

    Happy Independence Day, folks — especially all the troops. Be careful out there.

  84. [re=611619]weejee[/re]: The Age Mingler spammer is there, too, like the annoying neighbor you thought you’d never have to see again when you moved, but then ends up sitting next to you at a movie.

    And I love the comment: “Zombies are the white trash of monsterdom. Vampires rule!” I guess even the undead have cliques.

  85. Happy 4th to one & all (even our beloved trolls). And a very big thank you to those of you who fight our battles, both home and abroad, in both word and deed. Wonkette wouldn’t be here without your service! Please be careful.

  86. “How many deaths will it take til he knows that too many people have died?”

    Look, I agree that what Steele said was incredibly stupid (“it’s Obama’s fault”). What gets me is that the talking heads this morning say that Steele isn’t accurate about the history of land wars in Afghanistan: that’s a lie. The US continues to not learn the lessons of history from the Russians, the British,

    Look, I’m the last person in the world to be defending Michael Steele. But I think his statements are reflecting a growing concern about our presence in Afghanistan.


  87. [re=611633]proudgrampa[/re]: Sorry, no snark there.

    Happy Independence Day to all! It’s a good day for Sapphire martinis, Bacardi Select daquiris, and Hornito margaritas! Celebrate!

  88. [re=611631]NYNYNY[/re]:

    I’m on the pavement
    Thinking about the government
    The man in the trench coat
    Badge out, laid off
    Says he’s got a bad cough
    Wants to get it paid off

  89. Just read “Helmet for my Pillow” and “With the Old Breed.” (These WWII memoirs sure put my migraines in perspective.)
    Thanks to all who serve!
    Have a Happy July 4th Wonketteers!

  90. [re=611633]proudgrampa[/re]: Agree, there are between 50-100 Al Queda actually in Afghanistan now. According to Fareed Zakarata on CNN this morning, that means we’re spending one billion $ per Al Queda. Can that possibly be right? And why is this Fareed the only non-airhead on CNN? Is it because he’s not a real ‘murican?

  91. [re=611627]SayItWithWookies[/re]: yeah, i saw that. mccain’s a politician, so he’s not connected to reality the way coherent people are. to begin with, there would have been no civil war looming in iraq in 2006 if we hadn’t needlessly invaded the country in 2003, overthrown the government, and botched the occupation.

    but afghanistan’s different. we had good cause to invade the country in late 2001. overthrowing the government was not necessary unless the government made it so, which it did. botching the occupation, which we did in afghanistan as surely as we did in iraq, was in retrospect inevitable, as botching things seems to have been the modus operandi of the bush administration.

    as for bringing the war in afghanistan to a quick and successful conclusion by the end of 2001, all available evidence indicates that was never the intention of the bush administration. war cannot be made endlessly profitable unless it is made endless, which is why, in one form or another, the united states has been at war effectively since the summer of 1940 (at which time, after the fall of france to the nazi germans, america began its preparations for participation in the second world war).

    but war may not be endlessly profitable if it ends up bankrupting a government. witness what happened to the soviet union in the 1980s, when it was spent under the table in its arms race with the united states (and its foolish, unnecessary, and botched occupation of afghanistan). the simple fact is, we can no longer afford the imperial wet dreams of neocons and other wingnuts.

    another simple fact is, left or right, we seem to have lost track of the fact that waging war means killing people, sometimes lots of people, and sometimes innocent people. we will not win the war in afghanistan because we are unwilling to kill as broadly and ruthlessly as it would take to win there.

    so since we cannot win because we will not win, and since our country is going bankrupt due to various forms of imperial overstretch (literally and figuratively, and both at home and abroad), the only plausible course in afghanistan is to get out in such a way that doesn’t leave us looking like faithless cowards who are afraid to fight because we lack the courage of our convictions.

    enough of all this. it’s the national holiday! (mad dog and his band of jerks are lighting off the fireworks.) i’m going to go burn meat with fire and drink fermented grain extract, raising my glass in a toast to all who make this crazy nation possible and necessary.

  92. Happy Work-a-day Monday 5 July, Yanks!

    So, did Vice-President Palin say/do/eat anything stupid on Independence Day?

    [re=611628]facehead[/re]: And All-American Anus Burgers!

    [re=611540]slappypaddy[/re]: And Good on ya, Mates! USA! USA! USA!

  93. [re=611652]Bearbloke[/re]: I can’t believe Palin hasn’t chimed in with her blessings for our troops, our freedoms, and our oilz. However, here’s a nice take by a Canadian:

    America cannot be America at perpetual war

    I sometimes think that many of us who aren’t Americans believe in American ideals more than American citizens do. We imbibe, in other countries, a particularly pure form of the American civil religion.

  94. [re=611652]Bearbloke[/re]: Don’t know about burgers, but my friend has always described hot dogs in terms of their constituent elements: “lips and assholes.”

  95. Happy 4th! And a special shout-out to the hilarious, smart-assed, irreverent Wonketteer-Americans who add 15% more fun to my average workday.

  96. [re=611653]chascates[/re]: Would it be a Happy 4th of July without Sarah doing something weird or stupid? Of course not. She’s just come out with a major “foreign policy statement” calling for a 100 more years war in Afghanistan. For the troops and for the freedoms.

  97. [re=611608]druranium[/re]: “Every meal that douche ate and every sheet or pillowcase he slept on was prepared by an illegal brown but that won’t stop him from speakin’ his mind!”

    Believe me, he would have complained even more had the price gone up, as it will if legals ever replace the illegals — even in his own state.

  98. [re=611695]Jukesgrrl[/re]: If you want to induce huffing and stuttering in such asshats, just ask why we don’t say illegal bank robber or illegal sex offender. Or better yet, illegal tax fraud perpetrator.

  99. [re=611624]user-of-owls[/re]: You should be here this weekend, cloudless, low humidity temps in the mid 80s. I live on the upper Cape, by the way, near the bridges.

  100. [re=611830]Cape Clod[/re]: If you’re not past the Orleans rotary, you’re not on the Cape.

    Yours truly
    Lower Cape Poseur

  101. [re=611830]Cape Clod[/re]: Oh, and by the way, do you know what happens to Helen Thomas’ tits as every year passes?

    They Sagamore.

  102. Jack, are you from the Midwest? That’s a good Midwestern headline, lad, “…What Country We Declared Our Independence From,” the kind of thought that thrives in the Midwest, “a good place to grow up in.”

  103. [re=611649]slappypaddy[/re]: Whatever happened to a grand jury indictment? We Yanks are taught that a grand jury will indict a ham sandwich; where in the name of Christ the Savior, after all this time, is the grand jury evidence pointing out that the crime (two giant buildings levelled) is obviously the work of Criminal X (one-eyed cleric, country of your choice, religion of your choice, method of asymmetrical warfare of your choice, etc etc)?

    It’s pointless and stupid. I’m tired of going to funerals for people who were killed for What the Fuck Ever. “How do you ask someone to be the last to die for a mistake?” That’s a really good fucking question, Mister Officer, sir.

    Support the troops. Bring them home.

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